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  1. Quote Originally Posted by ironbrigade View Post
    Nobody wins a Superbowl through luck.

    Personally I am still in the Spielman camp. I like how he has manipulated the draft. I think the last two drafts have been great. He's gotten real quality picks. I don't think anyone could bash any of our first round picks the last two years. They were quality picks with no reaches. If any of the five doesn't work out (and lets face it odds are one will disappoint) I don't think you can look back and say they were bad picks, just players that never reached their potential for whatever reason.

    The key however is never the first round. It's easy to pick a winner when you're drafting 15th in the first round. The real thing you judge a GM on is how many players he picks in the 4-6 rounds are still on the team in 3 years? Because that's where your depth comes from and right now the jury is still out on that.

    To the contrary, why do you think the Oaklands, and Clevelands, and Tampas of the world are in the top five for a decade? It is true though, if you want to contend for a super bowl you have to find a few later round picks.

    The last three drafts have been successful if you are looking for depth.

    2012

    4th round- Jarius Wright - Starting Slot WR
    4th round - Rhett Ellison - Back up TE/ HB
    5th round- Robert Blanton - Starting S
    6th round - Blair Walsh - Starting K
    7th round - Audie Cole - Back up MIKE

    2013

    4th round Gerald Hodges - nickel LB
    5th round -Jeff Locke - starting Punter
    7th round - Michael Mauti - Special teams contributor

    (Special note- we gave away three draft choices to move up for Patterson, (draft choices 2, 3, 4) so not a big draft). So technically Patterson is our 2-4 selection.

    2014

    4th round- traded to move up for Bridgewater, not bad 4th round pick.
    5th round - David Yankey - Practice squad, maybe a starter next year.
    7th round - Shamar Stephen - D-line rotation
    7th round - Jabari Price- Dime CB

    I would say we added depth and even a few starters in these three years. I am confident in Spielman unless he ahs a really bad draft he is better than most at getting talent in here.

    The last few coaching hires have not gotten the talent out of the drafts IMO. Case in point, Josh Robinson.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  2. Wins and losses. In the end that is all that matters for the GM. If the Vikings don't start winning games, Spielman's job will be in jeapordy just like everyone elses.

    He has more responsibility than just his part in the draft. It's about the coaching hires, free agency and to some degree the entire football operation (with guidance from the Wilf's).

    In the end he is being paid to put together a winning franchise, and that is how he should be judged IMO.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    I sincerely hope Zimmer doesn't resign, he's the best thing to happen to this team in a long time... we've just had miserable FO leadership and continue to draft mediocre talent.
    Absolutely right...we need Zimmer more than anyone else in the organization, including Mark Wilf.


    Qui tacet, consentit.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    Wins and losses. In the end that is all that matters for the GM. If the Vikings don't start winning games, Spielman's job will be in jeapordy just like everyone elses.

    He has more responsibility than just his part in the draft. It's about the coaching hires, free agency and to some degree the entire football operation (with guidance from the Wilf's).

    In the end he is being paid to put together a winning franchise, and that is how he should be judged IMO.
    You had the TOA in the Childress hire and then you know the Wilf's forced Frazier on the team because they couldn't to pay two Coach's salaries, so they did it on the cheap. You get what you pay for. I am sure Spielman was not the guy to hire Frazier, the Zimmer hire is a good one. Now let Zimmer have his three years and some good drafts and we will see what develops. If we can't form a good team with Zimmer and three drafts then I am ready for a change.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  5. Give Spielman credit for the Harvin trade. He got a 1st, 3rd and 7th round pick for Harvin who Seattle has now traded for a mid-round pick after playing just 8 games for them. Harvin is a bust. Injury prone and jerk in the locker room and Spielman got a ton more than he was worth from Seattle.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by ironbrigade View Post
    Give Spielman credit for the Harvin trade. He got a 1st, 3rd and 7th round pick for Harvin who Seattle has now traded for a mid-round pick after playing just 8 games for them. Harvin is a bust. Injury prone and jerk in the locker room and Spielman got a ton more than he was worth from Seattle.
    Rick scored huge with that deal, major points in his favor

  7. Vikings look wise for trading Harvin when they did

    "With those picks, the Vikings drafted cornerback Xavier Rhodes in the first round last year, offensive lineman Travis Bond in the seventh round last year and running back Jerick McKinnon in the third round this year. Bond didnít make the 53-man roster and is now out of the NFL, but Rhodes has started every game for the Vikings this year and McKinnon has shown a lot of promise as a rookie this year. Thatís good value for the Vikings."

    We shelved PH, told him to go home with pay and then dealt him to Seattle. The draft picks that we got from Seattle allowed us the flexibility to move around in the draft and get the other guys not just Rhodes and McKinnon.

    I think Spielman is going to be attached to how well Teddy does. Teddy will get this season and next and we should see if Rick still has his job after next season. He has to trust that Zim, Norv and Teddy will all work together to help him keep his job.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    To the contrary, why do you think the Oaklands, and Clevelands, and Tampas of the world are in the top five for a decade? It is true though, if you want to contend for a super bowl you have to find a few later round picks.

    The last three drafts have been successful if you are looking for depth.

    2012

    4th round- Jarius Wright - Starting Slot WR
    4th round - Rhett Ellison - Back up TE/ HB
    5th round- Robert Blanton - Starting S
    6th round - Blair Walsh - Starting K
    7th round - Audie Cole - Back up MIKE

    2013

    4th round Gerald Hodges - nickel LB
    5th round -Jeff Locke - starting Punter
    7th round - Michael Mauti - Special teams contributor

    (Special note- we gave away three draft choices to move up for Patterson, (draft choices 2, 3, 4) so not a big draft). So technically Patterson is our 2-4 selection.

    2014

    4th round- traded to move up for Bridgewater, not bad 4th round pick.
    5th round - David Yankey - Practice squad, maybe a starter next year.
    7th round - Shamar Stephen - D-line rotation
    7th round - Jabari Price- Dime CB

    I would say we added depth and even a few starters in these three years. I am confident in Spielman unless he ahs a really bad draft he is better than most at getting talent in here.

    The last few coaching hires have not gotten the talent out of the drafts IMO. Case in point, Josh Robinson.
    These guys play, but are they any good? How many Pro Bowl players were drafted after round one? How many solid full time players?

    Just because Blanton and Price play does not mean they are quality players. They could be, but playing for a losing team does not mean much - especially when the player gets run over for all to see in prime time.

    Jeff Locke did not even have to be drafted, and he wasn't the best punter on the board, so who was missed for the plane ticket for Kluwe.

    There are a lot of holes in Spielman's game. That is ironic, since his name literally means "game man".

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    These guys play, but are they any good? How many Pro Bowl players were drafted after round one? How many solid full time players?

    Just because Blanton and Price play does not mean they are quality players. They could be, but playing for a losing team does not mean much - especially when the player gets run over for all to see in prime time.

    Jeff Locke did not even have to be drafted, and he wasn't the best punter on the board, so who was missed for the plane ticket for Kluwe.

    There are a lot of holes in Spielman's game. That is ironic, since his name literally means "game man".
    If you are looking at every GM's draft from 4-7 you will find the same criticism except for a select few. Now, if you want to fire Spielman, fine, who do you hire? I am sure when they start to draft a team you will hear the same chorus of criticism. How are Bellichick's draft picks doing? They haven't looked too good but by the end of the year they will look better, why is that? Coaching, so let's look at the team next year and see if the coaching staff has made the draft picks better and more desirable.

    Zimmer should have three years to get his team and players installed and then we should evaluate him.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    If you are looking at every GM's draft from 4-7 you will find the same criticism except for a select few. Now, if you want to fire Spielman, fine, who do you hire? I am sure when they start to draft a team you will hear the same chorus of criticism. How are Bellichick's draft picks doing? They haven't looked too good but by the end of the year they will look better, why is that? Coaching, so let's look at the team next year and see if the coaching staff has made the draft picks better and more desirable.

    Zimmer should have three years to get his team and players installed and then we should evaluate him.
    That's why you need to focus on the end product on the field. That is the primary measuring stick for a GM IMO. If this team doesn't start winning, then Spielman will be on the hot seat. Not because of how some amateurs judge the draft picks from rounds 4-7. It's one big interconnected machine that needs to work on many levels to be successful. That's what your paying a GM to figure out.

    A GM's best friend is a good head coach and next to that is a good QB. If Zimmer and Bridgewater end up being those pieces, then we've got a chance.

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