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singersp
09-17-2009, 07:30 AM
Special teams work to Vikings' advantage (http://www.freep.com/article/20090916/SPORTS01/90916024/1049/SPORTS/Special-teams-work-to-Vikings--advantage)

Posted: 9:49 a.m. Sept. 16, 2009

By Chip Scoggins
Minneapolis Star Tribune


Darius Reynaud had not returned a punt in a game since high school when he assumed that role against the Dallas Cowboys in the Vikings’ final preseason game....

V-Unit
09-17-2009, 11:01 AM
Definitely a step in the right direction. We really needed to fix this problem in the offseason and I hope Reynaud and Harvin have continued success.

ejmat
09-17-2009, 11:26 AM
I like our returners this year.
So much better than what we had last year.
I hated Hicks.
I am still worried about the cover side.
Giving up a TD is never good.
I know Cribbs is a special returner but it still worries me since it happened.

rockymtdan
09-17-2009, 12:08 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


I like our returners this year.
So much better than what we had last year.
I hated Hicks.
I am still worried about the cover side.
Giving up a TD is never good.
I know Cribbs is a special returner but it still worries me since it happened.
I think our return guys look great and we will have much better field possition on average then we have seen in the past.
Kluiw has been told to kick high in order to give the covreage team more time. It worked well for the Felcons last year.

Marrdro
09-17-2009, 02:18 PM
Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?

V-Unit
09-17-2009, 02:28 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


OutKicked his coverage?????????????????????????????? Come on Marrdro you are better than this.

Cribbs TD (http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81290f5f/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Cribbs-return-for-TD)

Watch this again.

1. Kluwe's total punt distance: 48 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's not like he kicked it 60 some yards. Either our guys are slow, or being blocked
2. Our left runner can't get back his blocker AT ALL.
3. Watch seconds 10-12. Three Vikings collapse on the ball instead of staying in their lanes. Cribbs makes one move and Bye Bye.

I agree that Kluwe has made some mistakes in the past, but this is not one of them.

snowinapril
09-17-2009, 02:41 PM
“They all can interchange and I am not going to lock any of them in,” Childress said. “The great thing is that all those guys have that ability along with Bernard Berrian or Jaymar Johnson if he happened to be up.”

It helps to have versatile and yet talented guys on the team.
Chilly was talking about pH, Reynaud, BB and JJ.

Once again, we have improved team talent from year to year.

V-Unit
09-17-2009, 02:49 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:



“They all can interchange and I am not going to lock any of them in,” Childress said. “The great thing is that all those guys have that ability along with Bernard Berrian or Jaymar Johnson if he happened to be up.”

It helps to have versatile and yet talented guys on the team.
Chilly was talking about pH, Reynaud, BB and JJ.

Once again, we have improved team talent from year to year.


YUCK!

I say pick a guy and stick him back there the entire season.

snowinapril
09-17-2009, 02:53 PM
"V" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:



“They all can interchange and I am not going to lock any of them in,” Childress said. “The great thing is that all those guys have that ability along with Bernard Berrian or Jaymar Johnson if he happened to be up.”

It helps to have versatile and yet talented guys on the team.
Chilly was talking about pH, Reynaud, BB and JJ.

Once again, we have improved team talent from year to year.


YUCK!

I say pick a guy and stick him back there the entire season.



I honestly would like BB and pH for Offense use only.
JMHO!

Hopefully when they get to activate JJ, he will take over the KOs.

Overlord
09-17-2009, 02:57 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


Nahh... The kick wasn't booming distance wise - 48 yards.
And the hang-time wasn't good, but wasn't terrible - 4.4 seconds.
I think that average hang-time across the NFL is something like 4.6 seconds (not positive on that).

What happened is that Onatolu got sucked inside, giving up his lane and allowing the return.
Kluwe took a bad angle too, because he's a punter that thinks he's an athlete, but he's not.
So mostly it was Onatolu.

Here's a first screen shot with Onatolu circled in red:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3928913457_774cb3a1b3.jpg

The red line is the path he's going to take.
The blue path is the lane he should have taken.

Here it is a few frames later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/3928913495_41fcc87c9e.jpg

Now he's caught up in a block and realizes that Cribbs is cutting back where he should have been.

And here it is just a bit later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2474/3928913547_ecb0a8e532.jpg

Onatolu is taking a dive at Cribbs, just missing.

Childress mentioned 2 guys getting out of their lanes at the press conference Monday (link (http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Postgame-Press-Conference-Highlights---913/5d51ec27-ab3f-4e81-928c-3154095bcea8#?id=aae1d368-b8f8-48f1-af9e-6df66983ee3a)).
At 2:58, he talks about the return:


We had two unblocked guys that jumped out of a lane, and... you know, the same coverage the next time and those two guys get in their lane and it's a minus three return back there.

I'm not sure who the other guy is, and who might have had a shot at getting him for a loss or instant stop, but Onatolu was the most obvious guy that missed.

ejmat
09-17-2009, 03:01 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


Nahh... The kick wasn't booming distance wise - 48 yards.
And the hang-time wasn't good, but wasn't terrible - 4.4 seconds.
I think that average hang-time across the NFL is something like 4.6 seconds (not positive on that).

What happened is that Onatolu got sucked inside, giving up his lane and allowing the return.
Kluwe took a bad angle too, because he's a punter that thinks he's an athlete, but he's not.
So mostly it was Onatolu.

Here's a first screen shot with Onatolu circled in red:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3928913457_774cb3a1b3.jpg

The red line is the path he's going to take.
The blue path is the lane he should have taken.

Here it is a few frames later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/3928913495_41fcc87c9e.jpg

Now he's caught up in a block and realizes that Cribbs is cutting back where he should have been.

And here it is just a bit later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2474/3928913547_ecb0a8e532.jpg

Onatolu is taking a dive at Cribbs, just missing.

Childress mentioned 2 guys getting out of their lanes at the press conference Monday (link (http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Postgame-Press-Conference-Highlights---913/5d51ec27-ab3f-4e81-928c-3154095bcea8#?id=aae1d368-b8f8-48f1-af9e-6df66983ee3a)).
At 2:58, he talks about the return:


We had two unblocked guys that jumped out of a lane, and... you know, the same coverage the next time and those two guys get in their lane and it's a minus three return back there.

I'm not sure who the other guy is, and who might have had a shot at getting him for a loss or instant stop, but Onatolu was the most obvious guy that missed.



Nice work Overload.
Beautifully scripted and presented.
Impressive my friend.

V-Unit
09-17-2009, 03:06 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


Nahh... The kick wasn't booming distance wise - 48 yards.
And the hang-time wasn't good, but wasn't terrible - 4.4 seconds.
I think that average hang-time across the NFL is something like 4.6 seconds (not positive on that).

What happened is that Onatolu got sucked inside, giving up his lane and allowing the return.
Kluwe took a bad angle too, because he's a punter that thinks he's an athlete, but he's not.
So mostly it was Onatolu.

Here's a first screen shot with Onatolu circled in red:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3928913457_774cb3a1b3.jpg

The red line is the path he's going to take.
The blue path is the lane he should have taken.

Here it is a few frames later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/3928913495_41fcc87c9e.jpg

Now he's caught up in a block and realizes that Cribbs is cutting back where he should have been.

And here it is just a bit later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2474/3928913547_ecb0a8e532.jpg

Onatolu is taking a dive at Cribbs, just missing.

Childress mentioned 2 guys getting out of their lanes at the press conference Monday (link (http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Postgame-Press-Conference-Highlights---913/5d51ec27-ab3f-4e81-928c-3154095bcea8#?id=aae1d368-b8f8-48f1-af9e-6df66983ee3a)).
At 2:58, he talks about the return:


We had two unblocked guys that jumped out of a lane, and... you know, the same coverage the next time and those two guys get in their lane and it's a minus three return back there.

I'm not sure who the other guy is, and who might have had a shot at getting him for a loss or instant stop, but Onatolu was the most obvious guy that missed.



BINGO!

To answer your question in purple. The other guy is right next to Onatolu, on his left. He also pinches way too far inside and is actually in the hashes when Cribbs makes his break outside. I can't get his number but he is totally out of position. He should have been on the other side of the two blockers, outside of the hashes as Cribbs makes his cut.

This also means that Onatolu is WAY left of his lane. He should have been hitting Cribbs' left side, keeping contain. The "other guy should have finished the play when/if Cribbes was forced back inside.

In the end, we totally agree.

Marrdro
09-17-2009, 03:09 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


Nahh... The kick wasn't booming distance wise - 48 yards.
And the hang-time wasn't good, but wasn't terrible - 4.4 seconds.
I think that average hang-time across the NFL is something like 4.6 seconds (not positive on that).

What happened is that Onatolu got sucked inside, giving up his lane and allowing the return.
Kluwe took a bad angle too, because he's a punter that thinks he's an athlete, but he's not.
So mostly it was Onatolu.

Here's a first screen shot with Onatolu circled in red:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3928913457_774cb3a1b3.jpg

The red line is the path he's going to take.
The blue path is the lane he should have taken.

Here it is a few frames later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/3928913495_41fcc87c9e.jpg

Now he's caught up in a block and realizes that Cribbs is cutting back where he should have been.

And here it is just a bit later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2474/3928913547_ecb0a8e532.jpg

Onatolu is taking a dive at Cribbs, just missing.

Childress mentioned 2 guys getting out of their lanes at the press conference Monday (link (http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Postgame-Press-Conference-Highlights---913/5d51ec27-ab3f-4e81-928c-3154095bcea8#?id=aae1d368-b8f8-48f1-af9e-6df66983ee3a)).
At 2:58, he talks about the return:


We had two unblocked guys that jumped out of a lane, and... you know, the same coverage the next time and those two guys get in their lane and it's a minus three return back there.

I'm not sure who the other guy is, and who might have had a shot at getting him for a loss or instant stop, but Onatolu was the most obvious guy that missed.


Were was the great Farwell on this?

Marrdro
09-17-2009, 03:11 PM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


OutKicked his coverage?????????????????????????????? Come on Marrdro you are better than this.

Cribbs TD (http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81290f5f/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Cribbs-return-for-TD)

Watch this again.

1. Kluwe's total punt distance: 48 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's not like he kicked it 60 some yards. Either our guys are slow, or being blocked
2. Our left runner can't get back his blocker AT ALL.
3. Watch seconds 10-12. Three Vikings collapse on the ball instead of staying in their lanes. Cribbs makes one move and Bye Bye.

I agree that Kluwe has made some mistakes in the past, but this is not one of them.

I am a bit off my game lately.
I blame the Chiller, LNAD and Heath.
;)

V-Unit
09-17-2009, 03:25 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


OutKicked his coverage?????????????????????????????? Come on Marrdro you are better than this.

Cribbs TD (http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81290f5f/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Cribbs-return-for-TD)

Watch this again.

1. Kluwe's total punt distance: 48 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's not like he kicked it 60 some yards. Either our guys are slow, or being blocked
2. Our left runner can't get back his blocker AT ALL.
3. Watch seconds 10-12. Three Vikings collapse on the ball instead of staying in their lanes. Cribbs makes one move and Bye Bye.

I agree that Kluwe has made some mistakes in the past, but this is not one of them.

I am a bit off my game lately.
I blame the Chiller, LNAD and Heath.

;)


That's funny, because two pages ago, you were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, you need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?

Marrdro
09-17-2009, 03:38 PM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


OutKicked his coverage?????????????????????????????? Come on Marrdro you are better than this.

Cribbs TD (http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81290f5f/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Cribbs-return-for-TD)

Watch this again.

1. Kluwe's total punt distance: 48 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's not like he kicked it 60 some yards. Either our guys are slow, or being blocked
2. Our left runner can't get back his blocker AT ALL.
3. Watch seconds 10-12. Three Vikings collapse on the ball instead of staying in their lanes. Cribbs makes one move and Bye Bye.

I agree that Kluwe has made some mistakes in the past, but this is not one of them.

I am a bit off my game lately.
I blame the Chiller, LNAD and Heath.

;)


That's funny, because two pages ago, you were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, you need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?

Twist twist.
No I did not blame Kluwe, in fact, if you would have read one line further you would have seen that I believed the coaches had him kick it that way.... ;)

Besides, Birk and Sharp weren't scapegoats.
I just pointed out, as I do with all players when they played bad or good.
Problem was, there wasn't much "Good" play out of either of them.

snowinapril
09-17-2009, 03:47 PM
BTW, when 82 tried to slide over to get at Cribbs one of the Browns grabbed his shoulder pads in the neckline and held him.
He would have had a difficult time getting to Cribbs, but it was a hold.
Oh well that happens on every play doesn't it.
LOL!

snowinapril
09-17-2009, 03:51 PM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


OutKicked his coverage?????????????????????????????? Come on Marrdro you are better than this.

Cribbs TD (http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81290f5f/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Cribbs-return-for-TD)

Watch this again.

1. Kluwe's total punt distance: 48 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's not like he kicked it 60 some yards. Either our guys are slow, or being blocked
2. Our left runner can't get back his blocker AT ALL.
3. Watch seconds 10-12. Three Vikings collapse on the ball instead of staying in their lanes. Cribbs makes one move and Bye Bye.

I agree that Kluwe has made some mistakes in the past, but this is not one of them.

I am a bit off my game lately.
I blame the Chiller, LNAD and Heath.

;)


That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.

Marrdro
09-17-2009, 03:54 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


OutKicked his coverage?????????????????????????????? Come on Marrdro you are better than this.

Cribbs TD (http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81290f5f/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Cribbs-return-for-TD)

Watch this again.

1. Kluwe's total punt distance: 48 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's not like he kicked it 60 some yards. Either our guys are slow, or being blocked
2. Our left runner can't get back his blocker AT ALL.
3. Watch seconds 10-12. Three Vikings collapse on the ball instead of staying in their lanes. Cribbs makes one move and Bye Bye.

I agree that Kluwe has made some mistakes in the past, but this is not one of them.

I am a bit off my game lately.
I blame the Chiller, LNAD and Heath.

;)


That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.

Thanks my friend.
Truth be told, ole V and I have it that way.
I have thick skin and for some reason, love to get him going........

Probably deserved all the YOU's......

kevoncox
09-17-2009, 04:00 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:




Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


OutKicked his coverage?????????????????????????????? Come on Marrdro you are better than this.

Cribbs TD (http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81290f5f/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Cribbs-return-for-TD)

Watch this again.

1. Kluwe's total punt distance: 48 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's not like he kicked it 60 some yards. Either our guys are slow, or being blocked
2. Our left runner can't get back his blocker AT ALL.
3. Watch seconds 10-12. Three Vikings collapse on the ball instead of staying in their lanes. Cribbs makes one move and Bye Bye.

I agree that Kluwe has made some mistakes in the past, but this is not one of them.

I am a bit off my game lately.
I blame the Chiller, LNAD and Heath.

;)


That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.

Thanks My Farvish Friend.
Truth be told, ole V and I have it that way.
I have thick skin and for some reason, love to get him going........

Probably deserved all the YOU's......

Yous Youth!
What is a Yoot? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjbf-dHjW0&feature=related#)

C Mac D
09-17-2009, 04:02 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:






Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


OutKicked his coverage?????????????????????????????? Come on Marrdro you are better than this.

Cribbs TD (http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81290f5f/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Cribbs-return-for-TD)

Watch this again.

1. Kluwe's total punt distance: 48 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's not like he kicked it 60 some yards. Either our guys are slow, or being blocked
2. Our left runner can't get back his blocker AT ALL.
3. Watch seconds 10-12. Three Vikings collapse on the ball instead of staying in their lanes. Cribbs makes one move and Bye Bye.

I agree that Kluwe has made some mistakes in the past, but this is not one of them.

I am a bit off my game lately.
I blame the Chiller, LNAD and Heath.

;)


That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.

Thanks My Farvish Friend.
Truth be told, ole V and I have it that way.
I have thick skin and for some reason, love to get him going........

Probably deserved all the YOU's......

Yous Youth!
What is a Yoot? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjbf-dHjW0&feature=related#)


lol... great clip. Love that movie.

snowinapril
09-17-2009, 04:04 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"V" wrote:




That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.

Thanks My Farvish Friend.
Truth be told, ole V and I have it that way.
I have thick skin and for some reason, love to get him going........

Probably deserved all the YOU's......



I have to throw that in there Marrdro.


If you are alright with it, that is ok.
Just can't have newbs and other vets thinking it can go on like that.
If you two have that relationship, that is great.
It is not transparent to all that read it.

Thanks for the clarification on that Marrdro My Farvish Friend (and V My Farvish Friend ).

snowinapril
09-17-2009, 04:13 PM
"V" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


Nahh... The kick wasn't booming distance wise - 48 yards.
And the hang-time wasn't good, but wasn't terrible - 4.4 seconds.
I think that average hang-time across the NFL is something like 4.6 seconds (not positive on that).

What happened is that Onatolu got sucked inside, giving up his lane and allowing the return.
Kluwe took a bad angle too, because he's a punter that thinks he's an athlete, but he's not.
So mostly it was Onatolu.

Here's a first screen shot with Onatolu circled in red:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3928913457_774cb3a1b3.jpg

The red line is the path he's going to take.
The blue path is the lane he should have taken.

Here it is a few frames later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/3928913495_41fcc87c9e.jpg

Now he's caught up in a block and realizes that Cribbs is cutting back where he should have been.

And here it is just a bit later:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2474/3928913547_ecb0a8e532.jpg

Onatolu is taking a dive at Cribbs, just missing.

Childress mentioned 2 guys getting out of their lanes at the press conference Monday (link (http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Postgame-Press-Conference-Highlights---913/5d51ec27-ab3f-4e81-928c-3154095bcea8#?id=aae1d368-b8f8-48f1-af9e-6df66983ee3a)).
At 2:58, he talks about the return:


We had two unblocked guys that jumped out of a lane, and... you know, the same coverage the next time and those two guys get in their lane and it's a minus three return back there.

I'm not sure who the other guy is, and who might have had a shot at getting him for a loss or instant stop, but Onatolu was the most obvious guy that missed.



BINGO!

To answer your question in purple. The other guy is right next to Onatolu, on his left. He also pinches way too far inside and is actually in the hashes when Cribbs makes his break outside. I can't get his number but he is totally out of position. He should have been on the other side of the two blockers, outside of the hashes as Cribbs makes his cut.

This also means that Onatolu is WAY left of his lane. He should have been hitting Cribbs' left side, keeping contain. The "other guy should have finished the play when/if Cribbes was forced back inside.

In the end, we totally agree.


51 and 41 had the outside contain they got down field and set up at the 35 yard line.
Forced Cribbs inside.

82 (he was the outside contain/ hotman at the bottom of the screen at the line of scrimmage) is the guy that 55 and 37 try to cut off of in that wedge of sorts.

46 had the middle lane in the middle of the hash marks.
55 and 37 were the guys were covering the lanes to 46's right side. They made that cut to try to go inside of 82 and both got hung up on 82.

51 instead of forcing his Brown into the play to keep that lane small, spun the opposite way to try and go down field. His Brown followed him out away from the wedge that was holding up 82, making that hole bigger for Cribbs.
Good or bad?

The two guys that Chilly was talking about were 37 and 55.
We named 55, 37 should be Frampton.
They thought that 51 was forcing Cribbs inside.

V-Unit
09-17-2009, 04:21 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"V" wrote:




That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.

Thanks My Farvish Friend.
Truth be told, ole V and I have it that way.
I have thick skin and for some reason, love to get him going........

Probably deserved all the YOU's......



I have to throw that in there Marrdro.


If you are alright with it, that is ok.
Just can't have newbs and other vets thinking it can go on like that.
If you two have that relationship, that is great.
It is not transparent to all that read it.

Thanks for the clarification on that Marrdro My Farvish Friend (and V My Farvish Friend ).


Sorry SIA. I know can be abrasive, but to be honest, I only talk to Marrdro that way because I know he can take it.

He does get me riled up.

BTW Marr. Guess how many times we ran it on Sunday? 34 times! 34 runs, 21 passes. You know what that is?

A 61:39 RUN:PASS RATIO!

snowinapril
09-17-2009, 04:31 PM
"V" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"V" wrote:




That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.

Thanks My Farvish Friend.
Truth be told, ole V and I have it that way.
I have thick skin and for some reason, love to get him going........

Probably deserved all the YOU's......



I have to throw that in there Marrdro.


If you are alright with it, that is ok.
Just can't have newbs and other vets thinking it can go on like that.
If you two have that relationship, that is great.
It is not transparent to all that read it.

Thanks for the clarification on that Marrdro My Farvish Friend (and V My Farvish Friend ).


Sorry SIA. I know can be abrasive, but to be honest, I only talk to Marrdro that way because I know he can take it.

He does get me riled up.

BTW Marr. Guess how many times we ran it on Sunday? 34 times! 34 runs, 21 passes. You know what that is?

A 61:39 RUN:PASS RATIO!


Thanks for the explanation on the you statements.....

To answer your question..... it is the Adrian Ratio.

midgensa
09-17-2009, 04:41 PM
"V" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"V" wrote:




That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.

Thanks My Farvish Friend.
Truth be told, ole V and I have it that way.
I have thick skin and for some reason, love to get him going........

Probably deserved all the YOU's......



I have to throw that in there Marrdro.


If you are alright with it, that is ok.
Just can't have newbs and other vets thinking it can go on like that.
If you two have that relationship, that is great.
It is not transparent to all that read it.

Thanks for the clarification on that Marrdro My Farvish Friend (and V My Farvish Friend ).


Sorry SIA. I know can be abrasive, but to be honest, I only talk to Marrdro that way because I know he can take it.

He does get me riled up.

BTW Marr. Guess how many times we ran it on Sunday? 34 times! 34 runs, 21 passes. You know what that is?

A 61:39 RUN:PASS RATIO!

He now ... you left out T-Jack's pass!

battleaxe4cheese
09-17-2009, 05:02 PM
D-Rey and Percy are going to be studs. I've been closely watching these guys, and the potential is almost limitless. They might not ever be of the Hester caliber, but they are going to be good, and they work really hard at their crafts, good things to come me thinks.

Minniman
09-18-2009, 12:55 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


BTW, when 82 tried to slide over to get at Cribbs one of the Browns grabbed his shoulder pads in the neckline and held him.
He would have had a difficult time getting to Cribbs, but it was a hold.
Oh well that happens on every play doesn't it.
LOL!

Yes, Darius Raynaud is held at the point of attack.
The defenders arm even goes out with Raynaud when he tries to pull away.
Easy flag, but not as easy to see in real time with all of the blocks.

Like the fumble, which went right into a Vikings player who was touched on the ground by the only Browns player near the play but was somehow inconclusive on review; like the Favre to Rice TD ruled OOB; and like the pass interference that was incidental at worst, the refs missed the call.


Who knows, maybe there was some backside holding on the Vikings during Petersons big run aswell, but it didn't get seen.
Then again, maybe there wasn't.
The calls didn't go the Vikings way on Sunday; that is certain.

singersp
09-18-2009, 05:09 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Anyone notice who was in on all the ST's tackles and who wasn't?

Loved watching the guys get down there and be in place waiting for the ball to get there.
Long story short, hang time vs "Kick it as fricken far as you can" will be the key to our success this year, not one ST's player.

Case in point.....


Minnesota - 2:23

1st-10, MIN15 2:23 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIN15 2:19 B. Favre sacked by B. Pool
3rd-16, MIN9 2:00 B. Favre passed to C. Taylor to the right for 10 yard gain
4th-6, MIN19 1:30 C. Kluwe punt. J. Cribbs returned punt for 67 yard touchdown

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20090913005&page=plays

Kluwe clearly outkicked his coverage on this. Cribbs had time to field it and survey the field and select the land not covered.

Result, TD........

I wonder if the coaching staff asked him to kick it like that or if they told him to give it hang time?


OutKicked his coverage?????????????????????????????? Come on Marrdro you are better than this.

Cribbs TD (http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81290f5f/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Cribbs-return-for-TD)

Watch this again.

1. Kluwe's total punt distance: 48 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's not like he kicked it 60 some yards. Either our guys are slow, or being blocked
2. Our left runner can't get back his blocker AT ALL.
3. Watch seconds 10-12. Three Vikings collapse on the ball instead of staying in their lanes. Cribbs makes one move and Bye Bye.

I agree that Kluwe has made some mistakes in the past, but this is not one of them.

I am a bit off my game lately.
I blame the Chiller, LNAD and Heath.
;)


That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.


??? So when addressing one poster in particular, what word would you suggest we use in place of it? We?

Correction.

When addressing one poster in particular, what word should be use in place of "you"?

singersp
09-18-2009, 05:26 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"V" wrote:




That's funny, because two pages ago, You were blaming Kluwe for over kicking the coverage...

One thing is clear. With Sharper and Birk gone, You need new scapegoats, and you are having an extremely hard time finding them.

You can't pick any of the young guys, because you would be contradicting yourself. You have spoken for Sullivan, Rice, Griffin, and Tyrell. Loadholt played well, as did Edwards.

You can't pick any of the vets, because they are playing too well. Longwell kicked a touchback, Kluwe had good punts. Favre showed zip and no INTs.

Stirring an empty pot just isn't any fun, is it?


Please refrain from using YOU statements.
Your argument alone is enough, calling out others is not necessary to make a point..

This goes for everyone, not just this post!

You statement become too personal.

Thanks My Farvish Friend.
Truth be told, ole V and I have it that way.
I have thick skin and for some reason, love to get him going........

Probably deserved all the YOU's......



I have to throw that in there Marrdro.


If you are alright with it, that is ok.
Just can't have newbs and other vets thinking it can go on like that.
If you two have that relationship, that is great.
It is not transparent to all that read it.

Thanks for the clarification on that Marrdro My Farvish Friend (and V My Farvish Friend ).


OOPS! There's that word "you" again (twice) that we were just informed not to use.

V4L
09-18-2009, 01:40 PM
Lol this thread is cracking me up

First V has some of the best posting i've ever seen

And then Singer ha