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snowinapril
08-05-2009, 10:03 AM
Hear me out!

What were the Vikings facing when Childress came to the Minny-Apple.
Well, we were just coming off a previous owner and coach that ran the team into the ground.
We had some players on this team that were mentally beaten down.
The team was declining in talent.
Wilf came in and had to deal with the public perception that the Vikings were all thugs and cruise enthusiasts.

Since then.......

Chilly has built a roster of character guys.
Yes, we do have a few McKinnie's on this team, but for the most part, we have been out of the media in this department.

Chilly has increased the talent on his roster.
He also continues to coach up his talent.
Slowly and methodically is his approach.

Chilly has increased his wins season after season.
If he can continue to get double digit wins that is a positive.

Chilly is sitting on a team that most people think is one position away from being a super bowl contender.
We are like 92-97% there, that is an A- to an A grade.
Even if he was at a B+ that is worth keeping in my book, the grade is truly subjective.


Some of the things that I attributed to Chilly, can include the other corners of the TOA.

I will add more later.

i_bleed_purple
08-05-2009, 10:05 AM
If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.


Its something to definitely consider though at the halfway point of this season.



Oh, and bump to ensure C Mac D sees this :P

Zeus
08-05-2009, 10:05 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


Hear me out!


Wait until CMac sees this.
He'll pop a vein in his head.

=Z=

snowinapril
08-05-2009, 10:05 AM
Have you been too hard on the Chilly?

Are you guilty of being an overly negative fan of the Coach?

Or are you willing to come around to the cool breeze of the Chilly Coach.





post 12,000
LOL!

Prophet
08-05-2009, 10:07 AM
LOL, that will give some a heart attack.

I wouldn't be surprised if this happens for some of the reasons you mentioned.
He has assembled a damn nice team that has focused on the lines, as promised, in his first speech given as head coach.
I'm still concerned that TJack is his Aaron Brooks.
Will he get over the QB hump or walk the plank?

jmcdon00
08-05-2009, 10:08 AM
He's probably earned it, but I'm not sure it's the best move for the vikings. Many hall of fame coaches don't have jobs and will likely be available. I would definetly wait until the end of this season.

Zeus
08-05-2009, 10:09 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=

i_bleed_purple
08-05-2009, 10:12 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.

2beersTommy
08-05-2009, 10:14 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.


Its something to definitely consider though at the halfway point of this season.



Oh, and bump to ensure C Mac D sees this :P


chilly is a POS, w the KOA offense ..it would be that if it were not for him..its like having the boat wide open with the anchor out!!

snowinapril
08-05-2009, 10:42 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



Chalk that loss up to TJ.
He needed to play that game to get the experience.
That blitz from the Eagle was unfair.
The fact that they were 5 or 6 was a fluke.
The Eagles with McNabb are always a threat because of his experience.
That game was another reg season game for McNabb.
How many NFC championship games has he played in.
LOL!
They were coming on strong at the end of the season.

Oh, who is our GM, the guy from Mia that was suppose to ruin our team, Speilman?
The Triangle has done well.

vikinggreg
08-05-2009, 11:12 AM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


He's probably earned it, but I'm not sure it's the best move for the vikings. Many hall of fame coaches don't have jobs and will likely be available. I would definetly wait until the end of this season.


If a change is made at the top I'd rather pass on some of those unemployeed names and look at giving Frazier a chance to take over the team.
Leslie might be in his last year already, but he already knows the team and would probably do less gutting of the structure than a body coming in from the outside and redoing multiple schemes.
While the offense could use some sprucing up/tuning/new playbook, I don't want to see the defense overhauled and possibly converted to a 3-4 and to go through 2 or more years of having the scheme gell.

i_bleed_purple
08-05-2009, 11:20 AM
"vikinggreg" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


He's probably earned it, but I'm not sure it's the best move for the vikings. Many hall of fame coaches don't have jobs and will likely be available. I would definetly wait until the end of this season.


If a change is made at the top I'd rather pass on some of those unemployeed names and look at giving Frazier a chance to take over the team.
Leslie might be in his last year already, but he already knows the team and would probably do less gutting of the structure than a body coming in from the outside and redoing multiple schemes.
While the offense could use some sprucing up/tuning/new playbook, I don't want to see the defense overhauled and possibly converted to a 3-4 and to go through 2 or more years of having the scheme gell.


Fraizer?
I think he'd be a terrible HC.
Not a fan of him at all.
We need a guy like Tomlin, who comes in, lets his coordinators do the coordinating, and just coaches the team as a whole.... O wait, we had a guy like him.

then I guess we'd need coordinators who can actually coordinate.

jargomcfargo
08-05-2009, 11:39 AM
It's not just the head coach. It's the entire coaching staff.
Childress has done well in assembling a pretty good team.
But there are still issues.
Let's see how things go this year before we talk extension.

marstc09
08-05-2009, 11:43 AM
No way. He has this year and next year left on his contract. I want to see the QB guru bring us a QB first.

i_bleed_purple
08-05-2009, 11:44 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


No way. He has this year and next year left on his contract. I want to see the QB guru bring us a QB first.


good point, why extend when he's still got 2 years left?
Unless he does something to lose his job, leave it as it is.

marstc09
08-05-2009, 11:47 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



I don't care what his record is this year. He must win a playoff game.

i_bleed_purple
08-05-2009, 11:51 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.


yup.

kirbyfan
08-05-2009, 12:01 PM
#1 he HAS to win a playoff game, regardless of his record.


#2 He really needs to pull at least 10 wins IMO to keep his job AND add a playoff win to that.

jmcdon00
08-05-2009, 12:05 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.

I'm not going to put anyones future on 1 game, ever.

Zeus
08-05-2009, 12:08 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.


I'm not going to put anyones future on 1 game, ever.


+1

Scenario:
the Vikings are 10-5, clinch the division but (against the 10-5 NYG on 1/3/10) need to win the final game of the season to clinch the #2 seed in the NFC.
So AD plays.
And gets hurt - hurt enough so that the he will not be available during the 1st playoff game.
The Vikings lose to the Giants, so they are the #3 seed.
Should Childress be fired if they lose that playoff game?
I think not.

=Z=

V4L
08-05-2009, 12:11 PM
Agree with Z

I'll let this one play out itself

He has to give me good reason to fire him

jargomcfargo
08-05-2009, 12:26 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:




If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.


I'm not going to put anyones future on 1 game, ever.


+1

Scenario:
the Vikings are 10-5, clinch the division but (against the 10-5 NYG on 1/3/10) need to win the final game of the season to clinch the #2 seed in the NFC.
So AD plays.
And gets hurt - hurt enough so that the he will not be available during the 1st playoff game.
The Vikings lose to the Giants, so they are the #3 seed.
Should Childress be fired if they lose that playoff game?
I think not.

=Z=


I agree.

The highly regarded and revered Bill Cowher took something like 14 years to win the big one. He had several playoff appearences and won playoff games.
Patience.

marstc09
08-05-2009, 12:36 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:




If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.


I'm not going to put anyones future on 1 game, ever.


+1

Scenario:
the Vikings are 10-5, clinch the division but (against the 10-5 NYG on 1/3/10) need to win the final game of the season to clinch the #2 seed in the NFC.
So AD plays.
And gets hurt - hurt enough so that the he will not be available during the 1st playoff game.
The Vikings lose to the Giants, so they are the #3 seed.
Should Childress be fired if they lose that playoff game?
I think not.

=Z=


Who said anything about being fired? He has this year and next left on his contract. I am willing to let him ride that out regardless of what happens this year. Plus one player should not crush this team. Taylor is more than capable of being a #1. He has done it before. There are 52 other people on this team. Are you saying that Chillys success rides on one guy? That is not what I got from another post of yours. Yet that seems like what you are doing here. Again, Chilly MUST win a playoff game.

"Zeus" wrote:


Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

=Z=

BleedinPandG
08-05-2009, 12:49 PM
This is a tough one for me, I'm really of mixed opinions...

On one hand, we have assembled a LOT of talent... however it's really the FO who assembles talent more so then the coach.
The coach really molds and gels the talent provided by the FO... But then again, it's really the coordinators and position coaches who are responsible for their units and players, developing them, developing schemes that fit them, etc.
I guess coaching is like everything... the Coach gets far too much credit when things go right (i.e. so and so won a SB) and far too much blame when things go wrong.

While I do believe the Vikings are improving and I do believe we see incremental improvement in our young players that can be attributed to coaching, we are moving at a less then diserable pace.
I don't mind steadily moving forward but the fear is you don't realize where the cap is, the peak, until a much later date.
Do we really want to be the San Diego Chargers of the NFC?
A good team, full of talent, decent coach, good FO, but just can't seem to get over that hump?
I believe the answer is no, we as Vikings fans deserve more then that by now, we're way over-due for the next level, the top of the heap, the Super Bowl victory.

In that vein, I believe the expectation needs to be on Childress to win in the playoffs.
The playoffs bring out the peak of pressure and the best of opponents.
Childress and staff need to prove they can perform under those circumstances with a playoff win.
People still bitch about the Eagles loss but if I remember correctly, Vegas did favor them.
Regardless of Vegas, purple goggles or not, I believe we have enough talent to compete against any team in the NFL in the playoffs.
It's the coaches job to assemble that talent in a way that leads to victory.

The last concern I have is in Chilly's coordinators.
While I believe he can admit mistakes at the player level (remember, Chilly benched TJ, you know, the one people say is "his guy") and he and the FO did go after Favre and at least thought about Cutler, I'm not sure he can admit the same mistakes at his coaching staff level.
The prime example was our Special Teams coach.
Now no one knows what would have happened if he didn't accept the Rams job or even if he was "encouraged" to accept that job, but it was my understanding he was returning to the Vikings even after "leading" the unit to an NFL record number of returns given up.
When any unit performs that badly, heads need to roll.
I understand the coach doesn't tackle, etc, but still, heads MUST roll.
Same can be said for our O Line coach and even our WR coach.
I don't see enough improvement out of those areas to make me believe we have solid coaching talent helping our players.
Childress seems to believe continuity trumps any talent improvement and I strongly disagree.
While continuity IS very important, if you can replace a C or D Level coach with someone who's a solid A, you go for it, continuity be darned!

I like Chilly, more, I like where the team is going.
I want to see him win in the playoffs.
I would wait to extend him until he does.
He's got 2 years to do it.

Zeus
08-05-2009, 12:56 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:






If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.


I'm not going to put anyones future on 1 game, ever.


+1

Scenario:
the Vikings are 10-5, clinch the division but (against the 10-5 NYG on 1/3/10) need to win the final game of the season to clinch the #2 seed in the NFC.
So AD plays.
And gets hurt - hurt enough so that the he will not be available during the 1st playoff game.
The Vikings lose to the Giants, so they are the #3 seed.
Should Childress be fired if they lose that playoff game?
I think not.

=Z=


Who said anything about being fired? He has this year and next left on his contract. I am willing to let him ride that out regardless of what happens this year. Plus one player should not crush this team. Taylor is more than capable of being a #1. He has done it before. There are 52 other people on this team. Are you saying that Chillys success rides on one guy? That is not what I got from another post of yours. Yet that seems like what you are doing here. Again, Chilly MUST win a playoff game.

"Zeus" wrote:


Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

=Z=



Here's 185 pages on "Childress must be fired".
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=37919.0

And the extra quote you added is something CMac has said multiple times in multiple threads.

And you wrote:
"marstc09" wrote:


I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.


Or what?
No extension?


=Z=

NodakPaul
08-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Interesting.
I do agree that Childress has brought the team a long way from where it was.
And I think he is absolutely a better coach than Tice was.
But I don't know if he has earned an extension as of right now.
This season will be a good measurement for that IMHO.
Another NFC North title and I think he will have earned it.

I still can't believe that C Mac hasn't posted here...

Storm
08-05-2009, 01:04 PM
I think the Vikings need to extend his contract by another 10 years regardless of what he does this year. Because stability is what matters and Cowher took 14 years to win SB. So yeah, lets give him another 11 years to get there.

i_bleed_purple
08-05-2009, 01:06 PM
"Storm" wrote:


I think the Vikings need to extend his contract by another 10 years regardless of what he does this year. Because stability is what matters and Cowher took 14 years to win SB. So yeah, lets give him another 11 years to get there.


Cowher also made the playoffs something like 11 out of those 14 years, and has a winning postseason record, something Childress can't say.
and 10 years?!!!!

NordicNed
08-05-2009, 01:13 PM
If we fail to take the NFC North title this season, I believe our office will have to take a good hard look at Chilly and the rest of our coaching staff.
I believe some heads will roll, Chilly's being first to do so, if we don't take the North.
Only thing that might save him is if we did go into the playoffs as a wild card and we win at least 2 games there.
If no show in the playoffs, Chilly is gone.



Now, if we do take the North, as I believe we will, I'de be all for extending Chilly's contract, even if we lost our first playoff showing again.
Unless
we got totaly ass whooped and it truly showed it was due to coaching blunders.
I can swallow a tough, hard fought game, and losing that game.


Personaly, I'll be very upset and suprised if we don't make the NFC Championship game this season.
We have the team and players and Coaching to get us there.

marstc09
08-05-2009, 01:29 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:








If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.


I'm not going to put anyones future on 1 game, ever.


+1

Scenario:
the Vikings are 10-5, clinch the division but (against the 10-5 NYG on 1/3/10) need to win the final game of the season to clinch the #2 seed in the NFC.
So AD plays.
And gets hurt - hurt enough so that the he will not be available during the 1st playoff game.
The Vikings lose to the Giants, so they are the #3 seed.
Should Childress be fired if they lose that playoff game?
I think not.

=Z=


Who said anything about being fired? He has this year and next left on his contract. I am willing to let him ride that out regardless of what happens this year. Plus one player should not crush this team. Taylor is more than capable of being a #1. He has done it before. There are 52 other people on this team. Are you saying that Chillys success rides on one guy? That is not what I got from another post of yours. Yet that seems like what you are doing here. Again, Chilly MUST win a playoff game.

"Zeus" wrote:


Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

=Z=



Here's 185 pages on "Childress must be fired".
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=37919.0

And the extra quote you added is something CMac has said multiple times in multiple threads.

And you wrote:
"marstc09" wrote:


I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.


Or what?
No extension?


=Z=


Yes, no extension. Why would we extend his contract if he failed to win a playoff game AGAIN, especially at home. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

CCthebest
08-05-2009, 01:33 PM
When I saw the title to this thread I almost puked. I still might. Its absurd.

pack93z
08-05-2009, 01:33 PM
I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.

battleaxe4cheese
08-05-2009, 01:53 PM
I am not going to make a decision on Chilli until this season plays out. Results is what I'm after. But I think if we don't make it deep in the playoffs with the huge talent pool we have, we should look to someone else to steer the ship. My vote is for John Gruden if he's available/willing. Chilli might suprise us all and take it to the house this year. He is improving every season, so we'll wait and see.

i_bleed_purple
08-05-2009, 02:08 PM
"battleaxe4cheese" wrote:


I am not going to make a decision on Chilli until this season plays out. Results is what I'm after. But I think if we don't make it deep in the playoffs with the huge talent pool we have, we should look to someone else to steer the ship. My vote is for John Gruden if he's available/willing. Chilli might suprise us all and take it to the house this year. He is improving every season, so we'll wait and see.


Gruden is a great coach for taking a great HOF coach's superbowl team and destroying it.

V4L
08-05-2009, 02:14 PM
"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

jmcdon00
08-05-2009, 02:41 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his ass, that wont happen again.

Purple Floyd
08-05-2009, 02:41 PM
The true test of a coaches ability is what he is able to extract out of lesser talent when the roster is on the downturn, not whether they can win one or two additional games than a guy like Tice when they are given abundantly more talent and support staff to work with. Hell, Barry Switzer won a NFC Championship in his first year and a SB the next year but that didn't mean that it was due to his extraordinary coaching skills.

V4L
08-05-2009, 02:42 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his ass, that wont happen again.



Better then an offensive coordinator that didn't even call plays ha

jmcdon00
08-05-2009, 03:01 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his jiggly butt, that wont happen again.



Better then an offensive coordinator that didn't even call plays ha

touche
I'd still take Chilly over McCarthy. I think Chilly will be a head coach in the NFL long after McCarthy is demoted to pewee football.

V4L
08-05-2009, 03:04 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his jiggly butt, that wont happen again.



Better then an offensive coordinator that didn't even call plays ha

touche
I'd still take Chilly over McCarthy. I think Chilly will be a head coach in the NFL long after McCarthy is demoted to pewee football.



Eh I think they both should be booted ha

Chilly might get a decent job somewhere in the NFL

He isn't a good game manager tho and make stupid ass mistakes

It's like he paniks

pack93z
08-05-2009, 03:20 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his ass, that wont happen again.


McCarthy's on the judgment wagon this year.. no doubt. But to say it was only Favre that carried that 07 team is nonsense at best. Our offense put up almost identical numbers to the 07' team, except in yards per carry by the backs.

All one really has to do is look no further than our defense in 08' and late 07' to see why we fell to earth.. one can't expect to win every matchup with a vanilla defensive scheme in which the offenses didn't have to adjust to much.. other than maybe if the corners were playing inside position or outside.

But on McCarthy's defense, he identified the issue and wasn't afraid to remedy it this offseason, bringing in one of the better defensive minds in the game for decades..

Yet here, even though Bevell's playbook seems rather narrow and the production inconsistent in terms of passing offense, they held status quo, instead relying on a 40 year old waffler to come in and amp up the offense.

We shall see at the end of the year which avenue was the better choice.. right now.. I would say it is a coin flip between the approaches.. but I don't think you make the same mistake we have and commit to Chilly before the proof is upon the table.

V4L
08-05-2009, 03:23 PM
"pack93z" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his ass, that wont happen again.


McCarthy's on the judgment wagon this year.. no doubt. But to say it was only Favre that carried that 07 team is nonsense at best. Our offense put up almost identical numbers to the 07' team, except in yards per carry by the backs.

All one really has to do is look no further than our defense in 08' and late 07' to see why we fell to earth.. one can't expect to win every matchup with a vanilla defensive scheme in which the offenses didn't have to adjust to much.. other than maybe if the corners were playing inside position or outside.

But on McCarthy's defense, he identified the issue and wasn't afraid to remedy it this offseason, bringing in one of the better defensive minds in the game for decades..

Yet here, even though Bevell's playbook seems rather narrow and the production inconsistent in terms of passing offense, they held status quo, instead relying on a 40 year old waffler to come in and amp up the offense.

We shall see at the end of the year which avenue was the better choice.. right now.. I would say it is a coin flip between the approaches.. but I don't think you make the same mistake we have and commit to Chilly before the proof is upon the table.



Didn't u guys lose like 8 outta 11 games by 7 or less?

It seemed to me by watching u guys had ALOT of tough breaks

jmcdon00
08-05-2009, 03:40 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his jiggly butt, that wont happen again.


McCarthy's on the judgment wagon this year.. no doubt. But to say it was only Favre that carried that 07 team is nonsense at best. Our offense put up almost identical numbers to the 07' team, except in yards per carry by the backs.

All one really has to do is look no further than our defense in 08' and late 07' to see why we fell to earth.. one can't expect to win every matchup with a vanilla defensive scheme in which the offenses didn't have to adjust to much.. other than maybe if the corners were playing inside position or outside.

But on McCarthy's defense, he identified the issue and wasn't afraid to remedy it this offseason, bringing in one of the better defensive minds in the game for decades..

Yet here, even though Bevell's playbook seems rather narrow and the production inconsistent in terms of passing offense, they held status quo, instead relying on a 40 year old waffler to come in and amp up the offense.

We shall see at the end of the year which avenue was the better choice.. right now.. I would say it is a coin flip between the approaches.. but I don't think you make the same mistake we have and commit to Chilly before the proof is upon the table.



Didn't u guys lose like 8 outta 11 games by 7 or less?

It seemed to me by watching u guys had ALOT of tough breaks



Probably but the year before they got every break, it all works out in the end.
I would just say that Chilly is division champ while McCarthy finished 3rd.

pack93z
08-05-2009, 03:42 PM
"V4L" wrote:


Didn't u guys lose like 8 outta 11 games by 7 or less?

It seemed to me by watching u guys had ALOT of tough breaks


Yes a few tough breaks, but more blown assignments, candy ass playcalling towards the end of games to put the games away, and some pure pathetic play on the defenses part late in games..

Call it tired, weary or whatever, they was a number of games that the the vanilla defensive calls were easily identified by the opposition and the players lost the matchups..

Hell we had the DC, the Linebacker coach and the secondary coaches not speaking to one another late in the season.. we had to remedy that issue.. and I give McCarthy credit for taking the step to try and correct the problem. Not taking a page from the Sherman book of coaching and ignoring the issue.

mark
08-05-2009, 03:49 PM
I agree.I like what chilly has done with the team.The only thing I dont like is the offence system.If we got a good O coor and let him take total control of the O I would be very happy.

Purple Floyd
08-05-2009, 09:04 PM
The title of this thread is like a Twilight Zone episode.

snowinapril
08-05-2009, 10:14 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


LOL, that will give some a heart attack.

I wouldn't be surprised if this happens for some of the reasons you mentioned.
He has assembled a gol 'darnit nice team that has focused on the lines, as promised, in his first speech given as head coach.
I'm still concerned that TJack is his Aaron Brooks.
Will he get over the QB hump or walk the plank?



For every 5 Aaron Brooks or JP Losman, there is one Drew Brees or Eli Manning.
LOL!

i_bleed_purple
08-05-2009, 10:22 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


LOL, that will give some a heart attack.

I wouldn't be surprised if this happens for some of the reasons you mentioned.
He has assembled a gol 'darnit nice team that has focused on the lines, as promised, in his first speech given as head coach.
I'm still concerned that TJack is his Aaron Brooks.
Will he get over the QB hump or walk the plank?



For every 5 Aaron Brooks or JP Losman, there is one Drew Brees or Eli Manning.
LOL!


Eli Manning and Drew Brees?

For every 5 aaron brooks or JP Losman, there is one eli Manning and 0.2 Drew Brees.

snowinapril
08-05-2009, 10:24 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:






If chilly can do well this season, I'd love him back.
That means that he's the coach we hoped he was when we signed him.
However, if he doesn't do well, all that means is he can put together a good team, just can't run it.
That is an issue, as many coaches are capable of doing that same thing.



6-10, 8-8, 10-6.
Yes, some narrow-minded Childress-loathers want to ascribe that success to Adrian Peterson "dropping into his lap", but I, personally don't.

The cupboard was bare when Childress took over from Tice.
Under Childress's leadership, the Vikings (as SIA noted) have put better players on the field and have dropped a lot of chaff (Dwight Smith, Ciatrick Fason, Jermaine Wiggins, Marcus Robinson, to name a few) from the roster.

Top-to-bottom, this is a better team that has steadily improved to the point where my expectations are high - and that's NOT all dependent on one player as it often was during the Tice era.
Ask anyone who watched football with me during those years - whether or not the team won was all dependent on (IMO) if Randy was interested or not.

=Z=


I agree with that, but if he goes 11-5, and loses against the #5 or 6 seed in the playoffs again, it will be hard to convince many he deserves yet another shot.
Any great coach with this team could do great things.
Chilly has a chance to show he's a great coach.
He needs to win.
coming close doesn't cut it anymore.



I don't care what he record is this year. He must win a playoff game.


I'm not going to put anyones future on 1 game, ever.


+1

Scenario:
the Vikings are 10-5, clinch the division but (against the 10-5 NYG on 1/3/10) need to win the final game of the season to clinch the #2 seed in the NFC.
So AD plays.
And gets hurt - hurt enough so that the he will not be available during the 1st playoff game.
The Vikings lose to the Giants, so they are the #3 seed.
Should Childress be fired if they lose that playoff game?
I think not.

=Z=


I agree.

The highly regarded and revered Bill Cowher took something like 14 years to win the big one. He had several playoff appearences and won playoff games.
Patience.



Yes, totally agree.
It wasn't until after Super Bowl win that people thought Cowher was a great coach.
I always liked him because he was consistent.
He had solid teams and was a solid guy.

Just food for thought, not saying it would have happened but.....
What if Denny was the Vikings version of Cowher and we cut him short?

VikingMike
08-05-2009, 10:30 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


The title of this thread is like a Twilight Zone episode.



No post in this thread by C Mac D? Oh wait, he can't type since he's doubled up laughing so hard.

snowinapril
08-05-2009, 10:32 PM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


This is a tough one for me, I'm really of mixed opinions...

On one hand, we have assembled a LOT of talent... however it's really the FO who assembles talent more so then the coach.
The coach really molds and gels the talent provided by the FO... But then again, it's really the coordinators and position coaches who are responsible for their units and players, developing them, developing schemes that fit them, etc.
I guess coaching is like everything... the Coach gets far too much credit when things go right (i.e. so and so won a SB) and far too much blame when things go wrong.

While I do believe the Vikings are improving and I do believe we see incremental improvement in our young players that can be attributed to coaching, we are moving at a less then diserable pace.
I don't mind steadily moving forward but the fear is you don't realize where the cap is, the peak, until a much later date.
Do we really want to be the San Diego Chargers of the NFC?
A good team, full of talent, decent coach, good FO, but just can't seem to get over that hump?
I believe the answer is no, we as Vikings fans deserve more then that by now, we're way over-due for the next level, the top of the heap, the Super Bowl victory.

In that vein, I believe the expectation needs to be on Childress to win in the playoffs.
The playoffs bring out the peak of pressure and the best of opponents.
Childress and staff need to prove they can perform under those circumstances with a playoff win.
People still beeyatch about the Eagles loss but if I remember correctly, Vegas did favor them.
Regardless of Vegas, purple goggles or not, I believe we have enough talent to compete against any team in the NFL in the playoffs.
It's the coaches job to assemble that talent in a way that leads to victory.

The last concern I have is in Chilly's coordinators.
While I believe he can admit mistakes at the player level (remember, Chilly benched TJ, you know, the one people say is "his guy") and he and the FO did go after Favre and at least thought about Cutler, I'm not sure he can admit the same mistakes at his coaching staff level.
The prime example was our Special Teams coach.
Now no one knows what would have happened if he didn't accept the Rams job or even if he was "encouraged" to accept that job, but it was my understanding he was returning to the Vikings even after "leading" the unit to an NFL record number of returns given up.
When any unit performs that badly, heads need to roll.
I understand the coach doesn't tackle, etc, but still, heads MUST roll.
Same can be said for our O Line coach and even our WR coach.
I don't see enough improvement out of those areas to make me believe we have solid coaching talent helping our players.
Childress seems to believe continuity trumps any talent improvement and I strongly disagree.
While continuity IS very important, if you can replace a C or D Level coach with someone who's a solid A, you go for it, continuity be darned!

I like Chilly, more, I like where the team is going.
I want to see him win in the playoffs.
I would wait to extend him until he does.
He's got 2 years to do it.


Well thought out post!

I like your thoughts on the position coaches and the coordinators.

I agree on the special teams coach for sure.

CCthebest
08-05-2009, 10:34 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his jiggly butt, that wont happen again.



Better then an offensive coordinator that didn't even call plays ha

touche
I'd still take Chilly over McCarthy. I think Chilly will be a head coach in the NFL long after McCarthy is demoted to pewee football.

Ill take that bet.

snowinapril
08-05-2009, 10:37 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


Interesting.
I do agree that Childress has brought the team a long way from where it was.
And I think he is absolutely a better coach than Tice was.
But I don't know if he has earned an extension as of right now.
This season will be a good measurement for that IMHO.
Another NFC North title and I think he will have earned it.

I still can't believe that C Mac hasn't posted here...


Maybe one of the previous posters was right.
Heart attacks abound, I never figured it would be CMac!

I guess my thought wasn't that he get the extension now.
But I think we will know by the middle of the season to the end.
Everyone says that he needs to win "a" playoff game.
Well if that is the case, he has two seasons to do so.
LOL!

snowinapril
08-05-2009, 10:46 PM
"pack93z" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his jiggly butt, that wont happen again.


McCarthy's on the judgment wagon this year.. no doubt. But to say it was only Favre that carried that 07 team is nonsense at best. Our offense put up almost identical numbers to the 07' team, except in yards per carry by the backs.

All one really has to do is look no further than our defense in 08' and late 07' to see why we fell to earth.. one can't expect to win every matchup with a vanilla defensive scheme in which the offenses didn't have to adjust to much.. other than maybe if the corners were playing inside position or outside.

But on McCarthy's defense, he identified the issue and wasn't afraid to remedy it this offseason, bringing in one of the better defensive minds in the game for decades..

Yet here, even though Bevell's playbook seems rather narrow and the production inconsistent in terms of passing offense, they held status quo, instead relying on a 40 year old waffler to come in and amp up the offense.

We shall see at the end of the year which avenue was the better choice.. right now.. I would say it is a coin flip between the approaches.. but I don't think you make the same mistake we have and commit to Chilly before the proof is upon the table.


I personally thought that team was living on the wing of a prayer and the glee of Favre's record breaking season.
It was the whole emotion, positive spirit that lifted that team.
I thought that was over achievement by that team.

Good luck with Capers!

jmcdon00
08-06-2009, 01:51 AM
"CCthebest" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:




I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his jiggly butt, that wont happen again.



Better then an offensive coordinator that didn't even call plays ha

touche
I'd still take Chilly over McCarthy. I think Chilly will be a head coach in the NFL long after McCarthy is demoted to pewee football.

Ill take that bet.

I don't bet anything less than 10 figures, otherwise it's not worth my time.

singersp
08-06-2009, 06:51 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


Hear me out!

What were the Vikings facing when Childress came to the Minny-Apple.
Well, we were just coming off a previous owner and coach that ran the team into the ground.
We had some players on this team that were mentally beaten down.
The team was declining in talent.
Wilf came in and had to deal with the public perception that the Vikings were all thugs and cruise enthusiasts.

Since then.......

Chilly has built a roster of character guys.
Yes, we do have a few McKinnie's on this team, but for the most part, we have been out of the media in this department.

Chilly has increased the talent on his roster.
He also continues to coach up his talent.
Slowly and methodically is his approach.

Chilly has increased his wins season after season.
If he can continue to get double digit wins that is a positive.

Chilly is sitting on a team that most people think is one position away from being a super bowl contender.
We are like 92-97% there, that is an A- to an A grade.
Even if he was at a B+ that is worth keeping in my book, the grade is truly subjective.


Some of the things that I attributed to Chilly, can include the other corners of the TOA.

I will add more later.


While he has increased the talent, let's mot forget he inherited some of his key players that Tice brought in.


E.J. Henderson
Jim Kleinsasser
Kevin Williams
Pat Williams
Antoine Winfield
Bryant McKinnie
Anthony Herrera
Heath Farwell
Matt Birk
Darren Sharper
Chris Kluwe
Dontarrious Thomas
Jeff Dugan

Prophet
08-06-2009, 09:03 AM
"CCthebest" wrote:


When I saw the title to this thread I almost puked. I still might. Its absurd.


You bring a convincing argument to the the table, I will now have to reconsider.

BTW, youtube the chirping with commentary and post it!

pack93z
08-06-2009, 09:27 AM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"CCthebest" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:






I don't want to speak for the rest of the fans of the NFCN.. but in my opinion, I would absolutely welcome the thought of a few more years of Chilly.. especially if Bevell is retained as well. ;)

Frazier now.. that cat can move on anytime.
;D

This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.




Lol true that

I love ur guys staff

McCarthy and Capers.. Good team there

McCarthy sucks. I'll never understand why you would promote the offensive coordinator of one of the worst offenses(plenty of talent though) to head coach. He was good for 1 year because Favre pulled some magic outa his jiggly butt, that wont happen again.



Better then an offensive coordinator that didn't even call plays ha

touche
I'd still take Chilly over McCarthy. I think Chilly will be a head coach in the NFL long after McCarthy is demoted to pewee football.

Ill take that bet.

I don't bet anything less than 10 figures, otherwise it's not worth my time.

How about $0.998543245

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 09:45 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


Hear me out!

What were the Vikings facing when Childress came to the Minny-Apple.
Well, we were just coming off a previous owner and coach that ran the team into the ground.
We had some players on this team that were mentally beaten down.
The team was declining in talent.
Wilf came in and had to deal with the public perception that the Vikings were all thugs and cruise enthusiasts.

Since then.......

Chilly has built a roster of character guys.
Yes, we do have a few McKinnie's on this team, but for the most part, we have been out of the media in this department.

Chilly has increased the talent on his roster.
He also continues to coach up his talent.
Slowly and methodically is his approach.

Chilly has increased his wins season after season.
If he can continue to get double digit wins that is a positive.

Chilly is sitting on a team that most people think is one position away from being a super bowl contender.
We are like 92-97% there, that is an A- to an A grade.
Even if he was at a B+ that is worth keeping in my book, the grade is truly subjective.


Some of the things that I attributed to Chilly, can include the other corners of the TOA.

I will add more later.


While he has increased the talent, let's mot forget he inherited some of his key players that Tice brought in.


E.J. Henderson
Jim Kleinsasser
Kevin Williams
Pat Williams
Antoine Winfield
Bryant McKinnie
Anthony Herrera
Heath Farwell
Matt Birk
Darren Sharper
Chris Kluwe
Dontarrious Thomas
Jeff Dugan


Yes, he did get those guys to work from from the time before Childress, but I can't let you say only Tice's name like he was the genius here.
Tice had some of those players handed to him by Green.
If you want to limit it to Tice strike out the two that he got from Green.
It is a decent list. But look back to the 2005 draft and we don't have any of those players on the team or in the NFL, maybe Mosley is still around. From 2004, we have Dugan (too bad about Udezi).

Chilly's Drafts

2006
Greenway
Griffin
Jackson
Cook
Edwards

2007
Peterson
Rice
McCauley
Robison
Allison (waived this week)
Alexander
Thigpen (QB project that was stolen by KC)
C.Williams

2008 (in order to get J.Allen)
Tyrell Johnson
Booty
Guion
Sullivan (starting C)
Jaymar Johnson

2009
P.Harvin
P.Loadholt
A.Allen
J.Brinkley
J Sanford


The guys in Purple will play a significant role on this team this year. They guys in red are going to contribute at some level this season.
Rice and Allen might be guys to switch to purple.
I almost made TJ red because I think if Chilly can replace him he will.

These have been good drafts and a coach the players up mentality.

Zeus
08-06-2009, 09:47 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


Hear me out!

What were the Vikings facing when Childress came to the Minny-Apple.
Well, we were just coming off a previous owner and coach that ran the team into the ground.
We had some players on this team that were mentally beaten down.
The team was declining in talent.
Wilf came in and had to deal with the public perception that the Vikings were all thugs and cruise enthusiasts.

Since then.......

Chilly has built a roster of character guys.
Yes, we do have a few McKinnie's on this team, but for the most part, we have been out of the media in this department.

Chilly has increased the talent on his roster.
He also continues to coach up his talent.
Slowly and methodically is his approach.

Chilly has increased his wins season after season.
If he can continue to get double digit wins that is a positive.

Chilly is sitting on a team that most people think is one position away from being a super bowl contender.
We are like 92-97% there, that is an A- to an A grade.
Even if he was at a B+ that is worth keeping in my book, the grade is truly subjective.


Some of the things that I attributed to Chilly, can include the other corners of the TOA.

I will add more later.


While he has increased the talent, let's mot forget he inherited some of his key players that Tice brought in.


E.J. Henderson
Jim Kleinsasser
Kevin Williams
Pat Williams
Antoine Winfield
Bryant McKinnie
Anthony Herrera
Heath Farwell
Matt Birk
Darren Sharper
Chris Kluwe
Dontarrious Thomas
Jeff Dugan


Yes, he did get those guys to work from from the time before Childress, but I can't let you say only Tice's name like he was the genius here.
Tice had some of those players handed to him by Green.
If you want to limit it to Tice strike out the two that he got from Green.
It is a decent list. But look back to the 2005 draft and we don't have any of those players on the team or in the NFL, maybe Mosley is still around. From 2004, we have Dugan (too bad about Udezi).

Chilly's Drafts

2006
Greenway
Griffin
Jackson
Cook
Edwards

2007
Peterson
Rice
McCauley
Robison
Allison (waived this week)
Alexander
Thigpen (QB project that was stolen by KC)
C.Williams

2008 (in order to get J.Allen)
Tyrell Johnson
Booty
Guion
Sullivan (starting C)
Jaymar Johnson

2009
P.Harvin
P.Loadholt
A.Allen
J.Brinkley
J Sanford

The guys in Purple will play a significant role on this team this year. They guys in yellow are going to contribute at some level this season.
Rice and Allen might be guys to switch to purple.
I almost made TJ yellow because I think if Chilly can replace him he will.

These have been good drafts and a coach the players up mentality.



No love for Tyrell Johnson?
He's going to be the starting safety opposite Madieu Williams this year....

=Z=

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 09:51 AM
I went back and changed it.
Thanks Z.

Almost missed T.Johnson.

I also had to change the color to red, the yellow was to difficult to see.

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 09:54 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


Chilly's Drafts

2006
Greenway
Griffin
Jackson
Cook
Edwards

2007
Peterson
Rice
McCauley
Robison
Allison (waived this week)
Alexander
Thigpen (QB project that was stolen by KC)
C.Williams

2008 (in order to get J.Allen)
Tyrell Johnson
Booty
Guion
Sullivan (starting C)
Jaymar Johnson

2009
P.Harvin
P.Loadholt
A.Allen
J.Brinkley
J Sanford


The guys in Purple will play a significant role on this team this year. They guys in red are going to contribute at some level this season.
Rice and Allen might be guys to switch to purple.
I almost made TJ red because I think if Chilly can replace him he will.

These have been good drafts and a coach the players up mentality.



Here is the list with T. Johnson in purple as a major contributor.

pack93z
08-06-2009, 10:48 AM
Chilly gets sole credit for adding those folks?

Most franchises have a personnel department that handles the drafts and free agent acquisitions with the coaching staffs input.. the head coaches and his staffs job is to coach up the talent, develop them and then utilizing their talents to maximize their potential.

Can one honestly say the development of young players and getting the most out of their talent is a strength of this coaching staff? Defense I will say is more impressive than the offense.. but have they really developed young talent at an acceptable rate?

Peterson is a natural player.. not much to develop there.. and hell getting production out of him isn't rocket science.

But have the WR's, QB's, OL developed well under this staff? Debatable in a outside opinion.

Now add to this the some of the best talent on the team minus Peterson and Kwill have been brought in from the outside via the expensive route of free agency... has Chilly really earned an extension at this point.. or should you let him coach out his deal and make a decision based on the growth of this team?

If I was writing the check.. I would hold off and look at the performance and results of this year.

The Packers made a mistake in locking up MM off an up year.. instead of letting his contract play out and redoing the deal based on the term performance and not a single boom year.

C Mac D
08-06-2009, 10:57 AM
"pack93z" wrote:


Chilly gets sole credit for adding those folks?

Most franchises have a personnel department that handles the drafts and free agent acquisitions with the coaching staffs input.. the head coaches and his staffs job is to coach up the talent, develop them and then utilizing their talents to maximize their potential.

Can one honestly say the development of young players and getting the most out of their talent is a strength of this coaching staff? Defense I will say is more impressive than the offense.. but have they really developed young talent at an acceptable rate?

Peterson is a natural player.. not much to develop there.. and hell getting production out of him isn't rocket science.

But have the WR's, QB's, OL developed well under this staff? Debatable in a outside opinion.

Now add to this the some of the best talent on the team minus Peterson and Kwill have been brought in from the outside via the expensive route of free agency... has Chilly really earned an extension at this point.. or should you let him coach out his deal and make a decision based on the growth of this team?

If I was writing the check.. I would hold off and look at the performance and results of this year.

The Packers made a mistake in locking up MM off an up year.. instead of letting his contract play out and redoing the deal based on the term performance and not a single boom year.


I find this entire thread hilarious.

C Mac D
08-06-2009, 11:15 AM
"pack93z" wrote:


This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.



+1

It's funny how a Packers fan is making more sense than Vikings fans.

marstc09
08-06-2009, 11:17 AM
"C" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.



+1

It's funny how a Packers fan is making more sense than Vikings fans.


Hey now. I made sense.

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 11:18 AM
"C" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


Chilly gets sole credit for adding those folks?

Most franchises have a personnel department that handles the drafts and free agent acquisitions with the coaching staffs input.. the head coaches and his staffs job is to coach up the talent, develop them and then utilizing their talents to maximize their potential.

Can one honestly say the development of young players and getting the most out of their talent is a strength of this coaching staff? Defense I will say is more impressive than the offense.. but have they really developed young talent at an acceptable rate?

Peterson is a natural player.. not much to develop there.. and hell getting production out of him isn't rocket science.

But have the WR's, QB's, OL developed well under this staff? Debatable in a outside opinion.

Now add to this the some of the best talent on the team minus Peterson and Kwill have been brought in from the outside via the expensive route of free agency... has Chilly really earned an extension at this point.. or should you let him coach out his deal and make a decision based on the growth of this team?

If I was writing the check.. I would hold off and look at the performance and results of this year.

The Packers made a mistake in locking up MM off an up year.. instead of letting his contract play out and redoing the deal based on the term performance and not a single boom year.


I find this entire thread hilarious.


That is OK!
I am open to all opinions and will take them all under consideration.

I don't believe that he gets an extension this year but what if he does?

The middle of next season will be when we find out.
I don't think he has done anything wrong to lose his job before his contract runs out.
Do the Wilf's go searching in the offseason and then fire him before next season, my guess is probably not.
The Wilf's seem like stand up guys.

That means you and I are stuck with the Chiller until his contract runs out.
Chilly would have to really F up this season to get fired.

marstc09
08-06-2009, 11:19 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


Chilly gets sole credit for adding those folks?

Most franchises have a personnel department that handles the drafts and free agent acquisitions with the coaching staffs input.. the head coaches and his staffs job is to coach up the talent, develop them and then utilizing their talents to maximize their potential.

Can one honestly say the development of young players and getting the most out of their talent is a strength of this coaching staff? Defense I will say is more impressive than the offense.. but have they really developed young talent at an acceptable rate?

Peterson is a natural player.. not much to develop there.. and hell getting production out of him isn't rocket science.

But have the WR's, QB's, OL developed well under this staff? Debatable in a outside opinion.

Now add to this the some of the best talent on the team minus Peterson and Kwill have been brought in from the outside via the expensive route of free agency... has Chilly really earned an extension at this point.. or should you let him coach out his deal and make a decision based on the growth of this team?

If I was writing the check.. I would hold off and look at the performance and results of this year.

The Packers made a mistake in locking up MM off an up year.. instead of letting his contract play out and redoing the deal based on the term performance and not a single boom year.


I find this entire thread hilarious.



I don't believe that he gets an extension this year but what if he does?



Then we better have at least been in won the NFC Championship game.

C Mac D
08-06-2009, 11:21 AM
Honestly, I'll admit Childress has put together a great team... but he hasn't coached sh*t. He doesn't even understand the basics of clock management let alone putting together a gameplan that doesn't involve him looking absolutely lost on the sidelines.

pack93z put it best, he's underachieving to say the least.


John Harbaugh took 1 year to do what Childress did in 3... so did Tony Sporano... with less talent.

C Mac D
08-06-2009, 11:21 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


This team has arguably the most talented players at several position in the NFC or in some cases the NFL.. I think under achieving needs to be noted someplace on Chilly's resume.



+1

It's funny how a Packers fan is making more sense than Vikings fans.


Hey now. I made sense.


Yeah, as I read through this thread I found myself agreeing with you quite a bit.

Mr Anderson
08-06-2009, 11:25 AM
"C" wrote:


Honestly, I'll admit Childress has put together a great team... but he hasn't coached sh*t. He doesn't even understand the basics of clock management let alone putting together a gameplan that doesn't involve him looking absolutely lost on the sidelines.

pack93z put it best, he's underachieving to say the least.


John Harbaugh took 1 year to do what Childress did in 3... so did Tony Sporano... with less talent.

I wonder how many more seasons we're gonna have to say that for.

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 01:30 PM
"C" wrote:


Honestly, I'll admit Childress has put together a great team... but he hasn't coached sh*t. He doesn't even understand the basics of clock management let alone putting together a gameplan that doesn't involve him looking absolutely lost on the sidelines.

pack93z put it best, he's underachieving to say the least.


John Harbaugh took 1 year to do what Childress did in 3... so did Tony Sporano... with less talent.


If John didn't have Flacco, he would have been calling Favre or his brohter Jim to QB that team.

Same with Sporano, without Pennington, which I think Parcels is responsible for, he would be sucking hind tit.
I could be wrong, but unless the Wildcat catches on as "the new" offense that replaces the WCO, it was just a fad.


Both of these guys have are one year wonders at best until they prove themselves in due time.

Every dog has his day (or year)!

C Mac D
08-06-2009, 01:32 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Honestly, I'll admit Childress has put together a great team... but he hasn't coached sh*t. He doesn't even understand the basics of clock management let alone putting together a gameplan that doesn't involve him looking absolutely lost on the sidelines.

pack93z put it best, he's underachieving to say the least.


John Harbaugh took 1 year to do what Childress did in 3... so did Tony Sporano... with less talent.


If John didn't have Flacco, he would have been calling Favre or his brohter Jim to QB that team.

Same with Sporano, without Pennington, which I think Parcels is responsible for, he would be sucking hind tit.
I could be wrong, but unless the Wildcat catches on as "the new" offense that replaces the WCO, it was just a fad.


Both of these guys have are one year wonders at best until they prove themselves in due time.

Every dog has his day (or year)!


So, what's your excuse for Childress not knowing the basics of clock management?

Caine
08-06-2009, 01:47 PM
"snowinapril]<br" wrote:



The problem then, most should recall, was Red *Penetrates Pandas* McCombs complete unwillingness to put any money into anything - Coaches or Players.
Tice was a victim of that, not a cause.

"snowinapril]Since" wrote:
[quote]

The only guy they took a stand on was Robinson...and they did it at a time when we were so talent poor it almost didn't matter.
They have since SIGNED a guy who tested positive at the combine...

...all I'm saying is that they're pretty selective on when they take the high road.

"snowinapril]Chilly" wrote:
[quote]

With a roster that depleted, improving it wasn't tough.
But having Peterson drop into his lap saved his bacon - even if Zeus doesn't belive it.
Although an arguement can be - and has been - made that his reputed ability to spot and develop QB talent has been a complete joke to date.


"snowinapril]Chilly" wrote:
[quote]

He increased his wins to the level we were at before he got here after 2 years, then gained ground LAST season....mostly because both Chicago and Green Bay tanked.
Not so impressive.

"snowinapril]Chilly" wrote:
[quote]

That's why Norv Turner has a job in San Diego...even though they should fire his silly butt too.


The Triumverate of Torment has assembled a nice team (with the aforementioned exception of the QB), but Chiller has shown REPEATEDLY that he can't coach his way out of a paper sack.
His game plans suck, his play calling sucks, his utiliation of personell sucks....in short, he sucks.

And you want to extend this?
You want to prolong the pain of underachievement?
Not me.
Fire this doofus and bring in a real coach.
Someone that'll tell Wilf to stay in the owners box where he belongs.

"snowinapril]Some" wrote:
[quote]
Yep...like everything good.

[quote author=snowinapril]I will add more later.


I anxiously await your next offering.

Caine

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 05:16 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:



Some of the things that I attributed to Chilly, can include the other corners of the TOA.

I will add more later.



I understand that Rick Spielman, Rob Brzezinski, and Brad Childress all play a part in the way the Vikings are shaped at this point.

I think the best way to judge Childress is his record over the entire season and then over the course of his tenure.


6-10
With a broken Brad Johnson and that noodle arm.
8-8

TJ was the QB but couldn't make it the whole season.

10-6
With Frerotte being the leading passer.
TJ had some good game there towards the end but he only had a 2-3 record.


6-10 Season:
We entered that season.
Chilly took a hard nosed stance and most of the players found his lay down the law and no laughter approach very cold.
He was called out for trying to limit BJ from audibles.
He sacrificed the record that season in order to put the team in the right direction.

8-8 Season:
We had inconsistent play by all positions.
We had guys drop passes that should have been caught.
We were TW pass away (in Den) from getting TJ his first playoff game.
AP had a great rookie season.


10-6 Season:

AP had another great season. TJ was injured again.
We added JA and he rocked the sacks.
Frerotte ended up getting 8 of those 10 wins.
At the end of the season, Chilly handed the reigns back to the young gun (TJ) and rolled the dice to get him that playoff experience.


They seem like small steps, but they were steps in the right direction.
Those steps are in the winning direction.
We kept improving the defense.
We kept adding pieces on offense.
We are just a QB away from truly being competitive for the Super Bowl.

We went out and got Hutch right off the bat to anchor the o-line that was having difficulties.
We then went out and got Allen to add a rush factor to our line that already had Pat and Kevin. We have done well in the draft adding players at all positions.
The WRs seemed to be better last year with the addition of BB.



I think that we all agree that the defense is not part of the problem.
We tend to blame our problems on the offense.
We tend to think of the offense as being Chilly's offense.
Even more so we know that TJ is Chilly's project and we know that TJ hasn't performed.
If Chilly can get the elevated play from someone at QB, then it will be easier to judge the coaching and the on the field competency of that coaching.


**********

What are realistic expectation for this season?
What is the benchmark that Chilly needs to achieve?

The NFCN is going to be tougher this season.
I think that the Lions even got better this offseason. Aaron Rodgers and the Pack are going to be better if they get the hang of Capers' defense.
The Bears also have the chance to be better on offense and on defense.
This may mean a sidestep in the number of wins for us, unless we can replace wins with outside our division wins.
With all the teams, including the Vikings, it will come down to executing to get the W.
This is where we will evaluate Chilly at the end of the season.

Part of that executing for the Vikings will be its experience.
We have a good core of guys on the O-line (BM & SH) and D-line (PW, KW, JA) that will provide leadership plus we have AW for the secondary and a more mature Adrian Peterson for the offensive position player leadership.
Experience will lead us to some wins.


Part of the executing will be the discipline that Chilly hands (handed) down to his players.
Part of this discipline aspect is being able to finally bench a guy like Cook that has the ability to false start at will.
Personally, Chilly has been able to do some upgrading each year he has been here.


In the upgrade of talent, I feel that Chilly gets credit for this accumulation of these individuals.
AD didn't fall into his lap (TW and TJ didn't just fall into anyones lap either someone has to own those).
They had the same choice to make that other teams made.
"AD is injury prone, he won't last."
Yes, that was all we heard going into the draft.
6 teams passed on AD.
We could have done the same and we didn't.
Same with Harvin, Chilly did the due diligence to make a solid decision.
He was the guy that took Harvin and even though we had CT, he helped make the decision to add AD to the roster.
His only real blemish is TJ so far, but he tried to get Thigpen and TJ on the cheap thinking that he would have QBs to mold.
By doing so, he was able to get talent in the first round.

Here are some stats to ponder on.......

How many people would have given up on Belichick?

BellyCheck - first 5 years in Cleveland
1991 - 6-10

Kosar
1992 - 7-9


Tomczak
1993 - 7-9


Vinny T
1994 - 11-5

Vinny T
1995 - 5-11

Vinny T

BellyCheck - with Pats after a 4 year assistant coaching stint.
2000 - 5-11
Bledsoe
2001 - 11-5
Brady
2002 -
9-7

Brady
2003 - 14-2
Brady
2004 - 14-2
Brady
2005 - 10-6
Brady
2006 - 12-4
Brady
2007 - 16-0
Brady
2008 - 11-5
Cassel

The other thing to note is that the two coaches before him were Pete Carroll and Bill Parcells.

How many people would have given up on Cowher after his 1998, 1999, and 2000 seasons?

Cowher and the Steelers
1997 - 11-5
Stewart
1998 - 7-9

Stewart
1999 - 6-10
Tomczak
2000 - 9-7

Stewart

Looking at Cowher and Belichick, I believe that the right QB was helpful to both of them.
Chilly hasn't been able to keep the same QB on the field the whole time he has been here, mostly due to injury.


BENCHMARK for Chilly this season = 11-5 plus NFCN Title with good QB play.
With bad QB play, 9-7 and playoffs or 10-6 would be fine while winning the NFCN.
By good QB play, that to me means that one of our QBs elevates their play.
It is totally possible.

C Mac D
08-06-2009, 05:19 PM
Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.

NodakPaul
08-06-2009, 05:21 PM
"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


I think he is neither a good coach nor a bad coach.
He has excelled and sucked at the same time.
It is kind of an enigma...

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 05:30 PM
"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


One coaching Blunder!

How can I get this through your thick head.
You want him gone and you are not basing that on anything other than the decision you have already made.

I have admitted that I am not a pro-Childress guy.
I am trying to put some points out there that may be contradictory to the common knucklehead chant of "Fire Childress" or "Fire Denny."

I will also admit that I don't know everything and never will.
So ya, I am trying to convince myself that he is a good coach because I believe what Nodak just said that he has not proven he is a bad coach or a good coach at this juncture in his career.
That is what makes this decision the hardest to make for the owners of this team and a majority minority of its fans.

Prophet
08-06-2009, 05:31 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


How can I get this through your thick head.
You want him gone and you are not basing that on anything other than the decision you have already made.

I have admitted that I am not a pro-Childress guy.
I am trying to put some points out there that may be contradictory to the common knucklehead chant of "Fire Childress" or "Fire Denny."

I will also admit that I don't know everything and never will.
So ya, I am trying to convince myself that he is a good coach because I believe what Nodak just said that he has not proven he is a bad coach or a good coach at this juncture in his career.
That is what makes this decision the hardest to make for the owners of this team and a majority minority of its fans.




Fire Childress, and whoever replaces him!

C Mac D
08-06-2009, 05:35 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


How can I get this through your thick head.
You want him gone and you are not basing that on anything other than the decision you have already made.

I have admitted that I am not a pro-Childress guy.
I am trying to put some points out there that may be contradictory to the common knucklehead chant of "Fire Childress" or "Fire Denny."

I will also admit that I don't know everything and never will.
So ya, I am trying to convince myself that he is a good coach because I believe what Nodak just said that he has not proven he is a bad coach or a good coach at this juncture in his career.
That is what makes this decision the hardest to make for the owners of this team and a majority minority of its fans.




Thick head, eh? So, because I don't agree with your paragraphs upon paragraphs of ignoring the bigger picture and attributing every success this team had to Childress... I'm thick headed?

Ok. That's cool.

I personally believe that Childress is the biggest thing holding this team back.

BloodyHorns82
08-06-2009, 05:47 PM
"C" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


How can I get this through your thick head.
You want him gone and you are not basing that on anything other than the decision you have already made.

I have admitted that I am not a pro-Childress guy.
I am trying to put some points out there that may be contradictory to the common knucklehead chant of "Fire Childress" or "Fire Denny."

I will also admit that I don't know everything and never will.
So ya, I am trying to convince myself that he is a good coach because I believe what Nodak just said that he has not proven he is a bad coach or a good coach at this juncture in his career.
That is what makes this decision the hardest to make for the owners of this team and a majority minority of its fans.




Thick head, eh? So, because I don't agree with your paragraphs upon paragraphs of ignoring the bigger picture and attributing every success this team had to Childress... I'm thick headed?

Ok. That's cool.

I personally believe that Childress is the biggest thing holding this team back.


Childress may be part of the problem, but he certainly isn't THE problem.
Takes more than one individual to cave a team.

Personally I think he's probably average as far as NFL HCs are concerned.
He's made some mistakes but also made this a much better football team than it was before he took over.
We're built to win, now it's time to execute - which will be, and has been Chilly's biggest hurdle.

C Mac D
08-06-2009, 05:49 PM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


How can I get this through your thick head.
You want him gone and you are not basing that on anything other than the decision you have already made.

I have admitted that I am not a pro-Childress guy.
I am trying to put some points out there that may be contradictory to the common knucklehead chant of "Fire Childress" or "Fire Denny."

I will also admit that I don't know everything and never will.
So ya, I am trying to convince myself that he is a good coach because I believe what Nodak just said that he has not proven he is a bad coach or a good coach at this juncture in his career.
That is what makes this decision the hardest to make for the owners of this team and a majority minority of its fans.




Thick head, eh? So, because I don't agree with your paragraphs upon paragraphs of ignoring the bigger picture and attributing every success this team had to Childress... I'm thick headed?

Ok. That's cool.

I personally believe that Childress is the biggest thing holding this team back.


Childress may be part of the problem, but he certainly isn't THE problem.
Takes more than one individual to cave a team.

Personally I think he's probably average as far as NFL HCs are concerned.
He's made some mistakes but also made this a much better football team than it was before he took over.
We're built to win, now it's time to execute - which will be, and has been Chilly's biggest hurdle.


If he's not THE problem... I'm not sure what is.

Caine
08-06-2009, 05:56 PM
"C" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


How can I get this through your thick head.
You want him gone and you are not basing that on anything other than the decision you have already made.

I have admitted that I am not a pro-Childress guy.
I am trying to put some points out there that may be contradictory to the common knucklehead chant of "Fire Childress" or "Fire Denny."

I will also admit that I don't know everything and never will.
So ya, I am trying to convince myself that he is a good coach because I believe what Nodak just said that he has not proven he is a bad coach or a good coach at this juncture in his career.
That is what makes this decision the hardest to make for the owners of this team and a majority minority of its fans.




Thick head, eh? So, because I don't agree with your paragraphs upon paragraphs of ignoring the bigger picture and attributing every success this team had to Childress... I'm thick headed?

Ok. That's cool.

I personally believe that Childress is the biggest thing holding this team back.


As painful as it is, I agree with C Mac D on this.

Caine

Mr Anderson
08-06-2009, 05:59 PM
"C" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


How can I get this through your thick head.
You want him gone and you are not basing that on anything other than the decision you have already made.

I have admitted that I am not a pro-Childress guy.
I am trying to put some points out there that may be contradictory to the common knucklehead chant of "Fire Childress" or "Fire Denny."

I will also admit that I don't know everything and never will.
So ya, I am trying to convince myself that he is a good coach because I believe what Nodak just said that he has not proven he is a bad coach or a good coach at this juncture in his career.
That is what makes this decision the hardest to make for the owners of this team and a majority minority of its fans.




Thick head, eh? So, because I don't agree with your paragraphs upon paragraphs of ignoring the bigger picture and attributing every success this team had to Childress... I'm thick headed?

Ok. That's cool.

I personally believe that Childress is the biggest thing holding this team back.


Childress may be part of the problem, but he certainly isn't THE problem.
Takes more than one individual to cave a team.

Personally I think he's probably average as far as NFL HCs are concerned.
He's made some mistakes but also made this a much better football team than it was before he took over.
We're built to win, now it's time to execute - which will be, and has been Chilly's biggest hurdle.


If he's not THE problem... I'm not sure what is.


As do I, but it's not that painful.

I used to agree with Tw occasionally.

V-Unit
08-06-2009, 06:03 PM
I like a lot of things about Childress, but not enough to make me think he is a good coach.

- I like the scheme, but both the WCO and Cover 2 are proven schemes that our known to work. I give him credit for running them correctly, but he is unable to amend or invent to make these schemes even better. The wildcat is a perfect example. Is Chilly smart enough to use the Wildcat? Sure. Was he smart enough to INVENT it? Hell no.

- The team is plagued by the simplest of mistakes. Mistakes which will lead to losses at any level, no just the pros. That is the sign of a bad coach.

- A great eye for talent but the coaching staff is simply terrible at developing it. Every stud on our team was a stud before he arrived here. Late round picks never turn out into surprises. The supposed QB genius hs his guy progressing slower than molasses. Where is our Willie Parker? Our Lance Briggs? Our Tom Brady?

That Belicheck comparison is ridiculous. He won a championship in his second year coaching the Patriots. Sure a .450 winning percentage with the Browns caused some doubts, but a coach with 5 years of head coaching experience is jsut as qualified, if not more qualified than a career assistant.

BloodyHorns82
08-06-2009, 06:03 PM
"C" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


How can I get this through your thick head.
You want him gone and you are not basing that on anything other than the decision you have already made.

I have admitted that I am not a pro-Childress guy.
I am trying to put some points out there that may be contradictory to the common knucklehead chant of "Fire Childress" or "Fire Denny."

I will also admit that I don't know everything and never will.
So ya, I am trying to convince myself that he is a good coach because I believe what Nodak just said that he has not proven he is a bad coach or a good coach at this juncture in his career.
That is what makes this decision the hardest to make for the owners of this team and a majority minority of its fans.




Thick head, eh? So, because I don't agree with your paragraphs upon paragraphs of ignoring the bigger picture and attributing every success this team had to Childress... I'm thick headed?

Ok. That's cool.

I personally believe that Childress is the biggest thing holding this team back.


Childress may be part of the problem, but he certainly isn't THE problem.
Takes more than one individual to cave a team.

Personally I think he's probably average as far as NFL HCs are concerned.
He's made some mistakes but also made this a much better football team than it was before he took over.
We're built to win, now it's time to execute - which will be, and has been Chilly's biggest hurdle.


If he's not THE problem... I'm not sure what is.



Blame Bush.

C Mac D
08-06-2009, 06:06 PM
"V" wrote:


I like a lot of things about Childress, but not enough to make me think he is a good coach.

- I like the scheme, but both the WCO and Cover 2 are proven schemes that our known to work. I give him credit for running them correctly, but he is unable to amend or invent to make these schemes even better. The wildcat is a perfect example. Is Chilly smart enough to use the Wildcat? Sure. Was he smart enough to INVENT it? Hell no.

- The team is plagued by the simplest of mistakes. Mistakes which will lead to losses at any level, no just the pros. That is the sign of a bad coach.

- A great eye for talent but the coaching staff is simply terrible at developing it. Every stud on our team was a stud before he arrived here. Late round picks never turn out into surprises. The supposed QB genius hs his guy progressing slower than molasses. Where is our Willie Parker? Our Lance Briggs? Our Tom Brady?

That Belicheck comparison is ridiculous. He won a championship in his second year coaching the Patriots. Sure a .450 winning percentage with the Browns caused some doubts, but a coach with 5 years of head coaching experience is jsut as qualified, if not more qualified than a career assistant.



Agreed completely.

Also, Belichick is a cheater.

vikinggreg
08-06-2009, 06:28 PM
"C" wrote:


Seems like you're trying to convince yourself he's a good coach, not others.

Type all the paragraphs you want, he sucks as a coach.

A coach is not NFL caliber when he's not even aware the other team can run the clock out under two minutes and he has no timeouts left.

That only took one sentence.


So was Joe Gibbs not a NFL caliber coach when he call back to back timeouts to ice a kicker and took a penalty for it......or did he just make a mistake.


As I recall Gus was out of the game and Jackson had come in and run ...... what 3 plays and gotten sacked twice.
Guess he should have let Jackson take a 3rd sack for maybe a fumble or safety and hoped he didn't get hurt.

Caine
08-06-2009, 06:39 PM
"V" wrote:


I like a lot of things about Childress, but not enough to make me think he is a good coach.

- I like the scheme, but both the WCO and Cover 2 are proven schemes that our known to work. I give him credit for running them correctly, but he is unable to amend or invent to make these schemes even better. The wildcat is a perfect example. Is Chilly smart enough to use the Wildcat? Sure. Was he smart enough to INVENT it? Hell no.

- The team is plagued by the simplest of mistakes. Mistakes which will lead to losses at any level, no just the pros. That is the sign of a bad coach.

- A great eye for talent but the coaching staff is simply terrible at developing it. Every stud on our team was a stud before he arrived here. Late round picks never turn out into surprises. The supposed QB genius hs his guy progressing slower than molasses. Where is our Willie Parker? Our Lance Briggs? Our Tom Brady?

That Belicheck comparison is ridiculous. He won a championship in his second year coaching the Patriots. Sure a .450 winning percentage with the Browns caused some doubts, but a coach with 5 years of head coaching experience is jsut as qualified, if not more qualified than a career assistant.



Agree with everything except the "eye for talent" thing.
That doesn't extend to the QB position.

Caine

DeathtoDenny
08-06-2009, 06:54 PM
Childress is Les Steckel, except Childress has a super bowl caliber team, sans quarterback, a position which he personally fucked up (from dropping Culpepper, "grooming" TJack, risking lots flirting with Favretard). Les Steckel got dumped appropriately.

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 08:45 PM
"V" wrote:

- I like the scheme, but both the WCO and Cover 2 are proven schemes that our known to work. I give him credit for running them correctly, but he is unable to amend or invent to make these schemes even better. The wildcat is a perfect example. Is Chilly smart enough to use the Wildcat? Sure. Was he smart enough to INVENT it? Hell no.


Is the Wildcat really that inventive.
The smartest thing about it was the use of speed and passing of guys that they weren't use to game planning for.
It was a smart use of talent and a trick up their sleeve for teams that hadn't thought about this wrinkle.
I don't think it will have the surprise element this season.
D-Co will have addressed this issue over the offseason.

"V" wrote:

- The team is plagued by the simplest of mistakes. Mistakes which will lead to losses at any level, no just the pros. That is the sign of a bad coach.

True we have been plagued in that area but less so than the previous tenure by Tice! It has gotten better IMHO each year he has been here and the team has grown.
But with the young QB, that hasn't had the ability to play a full season yet, it has been a distraction to the O. Where is the continuity? Childress finally got tired of it last season and let Frerotte stay in there.
I give him credit for that.
I was surprised when he let TJ back in at the end of the season.
I figure it was to give him that last shot to see if he could raise the level.
They then went out and got Sage.
Let's see how this plays out.
It would be nice to have someone that can throw for 3500 and then let AD do the rest.
One QB for the whole season

"V" wrote:

- A great eye for talent but the coaching staff is simply terrible at developing it. Every stud on our team was a stud before he arrived here. Late round picks never turn out into surprises. The supposed QB genius hs his guy progressing slower than molasses. Where is our Willie Parker? Our Lance Briggs? Our Tom Brady?

65


Sullivan, John




C

6-4

301

08/08/1985
2nd Yr

Notre Dame
91


Edwards, Raymond
DE
6-5

268

01/01/1985
4th Yr


Purdue
(this is a stretch for quality)

"snowinapril" wrote:


Chilly's Drafts

2006
Greenway
Griffin
Jackson
Cook
Edwards

2007
Peterson
Rice
McCauley
Robison
Allison (waived this week)
Alexander
Thigpen (QB project that was stolen by KC)
C.Williams

2008 (in order to get J.Allen)
Tyrell Johnson
Booty
Guion
Sullivan (starting C)
Jaymar Johnson

2009
P.Harvin
P.Loadholt
A.Allen
J.Brinkley
J Sanford


The guys in Purple will play a significant role on this team this year. They guys in red are going to contribute at some level this season.
Rice and Allen might be guys to switch to purple.
I almost made TJ red because I think if Chilly can replace him he will.

These have been good drafts and a coach the players up mentality.


"V" wrote:

That Belicheck comparison is ridiculous. He won a championship in his second year coaching the Patriots. Sure a .450 winning percentage with the Browns caused some doubts, but a coach with 5 years of head coaching experience is jsut as qualified, if not more qualified than a career assistant.


My point is that the Brown gave up on him too soon.

By the time he got to the Patriots he had enough time to fine tune his own system.
Pittsburg didn't give up on Cowher and they were rewarded.

OK, now you could try to throw Tomlin in my face. I would have to say ya, we should have signed him, but that isn't Chilly's fault.
That goes higher up.......... the food chain.
You don't get a chance at those guys very often, when you miss, you have to settle for vanilla and that is Chilly.

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 09:39 PM
Yes I think the guy is vanilla.


SIA, why do you want to extend his contract?


He has some more time to prove himself.
It would be nice to see a winning percentage of .600 over his tenure and I would definitely be swayed toward that extension.
But right now, I neither want to get rid of him, give up on him or extend him.

I don't want to break the building process of this team until we have a definitive quality replacement or that process implodes on itself.

There is no point pissing and moaning about how he needs to be replaced until he royally floops up, which he is too vanilla to do so.

snowinapril
08-06-2009, 09:58 PM
More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)
::)
Parcells @ Jets
::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)
::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC
::)
Ditka in NO
::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.
::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.

Storm
08-07-2009, 02:45 AM
It's not all about the Superbowl, you know. Fisher took his team to play-offs six times and actually won some games in there. Five, to be precise.

So lets see Chilly win a play-off game, then we can compare him to all the coaches who have never won the big one, but can be considered successful nontheless.

Marrdro
08-07-2009, 07:14 AM
"V" wrote:


I like a lot of things about Childress, but not enough to make me think he is a good coach.

- I like the scheme, but both the WCO and Cover 2 are proven schemes that our known to work. I give him credit for running them correctly, but he is unable to amend or invent to make these schemes even better. The wildcat is a perfect example. Is Chilly smart enough to use the Wildcat? Sure. Was he smart enough to INVENT it? Hell no.

- The team is plagued by the simplest of mistakes. Mistakes which will lead to losses at any level, no just the pros. That is the sign of a bad coach.

- A great eye for talent but the coaching staff is simply terrible at developing it. Every stud on our team was a stud before he arrived here. Late round picks never turn out into surprises. The supposed QB genius hs his guy progressing slower than molasses. Where is our Willie Parker? Our Lance Briggs? Our Tom Brady?

That Belicheck comparison is ridiculous. He won a championship in his second year coaching the Patriots. Sure a .450 winning percentage with the Browns caused some doubts, but a coach with 5 years of head coaching experience is jsut as qualified, if not more qualified than a career assistant.


Agree with everything but that one......

Gordon was a nice suprise.
To bad about the injury.
Herrera is playing better than expected.
EJ has been a nice suprise since the new regime moved him back to MLB.
Love the shit out of Griff.

Seriously though, there have been some head scratchers as well (AA comes to mind immediately)however, how quick do you expect a coaching staff to develop late round picks into "Studs"?

i_bleed_purple
08-07-2009, 07:20 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I like a lot of things about Childress, but not enough to make me think he is a good coach.

- I like the scheme, but both the WCO and Cover 2 are proven schemes that our known to work. I give him credit for running them correctly, but he is unable to amend or invent to make these schemes even better. The wildcat is a perfect example. Is Chilly smart enough to use the Wildcat? Sure. Was he smart enough to INVENT it? Hell no.

- The team is plagued by the simplest of mistakes. Mistakes which will lead to losses at any level, no just the pros. That is the sign of a bad coach.

- A great eye for talent but the coaching staff is simply terrible at developing it. Every stud on our team was a stud before he arrived here. Late round picks never turn out into surprises. The supposed QB genius hs his guy progressing slower than molasses. Where is our Willie Parker? Our Lance Briggs? Our Tom Brady?

That Belicheck comparison is ridiculous. He won a championship in his second year coaching the Patriots. Sure a .450 winning percentage with the Browns caused some doubts, but a coach with 5 years of head coaching experience is jsut as qualified, if not more qualified than a career assistant.


Agree with everything but that one......

Gordon was a nice suprise.
To bad about the injury.
Herrera is playing better than expected.
EJ has been a nice suprise since the new regime moved him back to MLB.
Love the shit out of Griff.

Seriously though, there have been some head scratchers as well (AA comes to mind immediately)however, how quick do you expect a coaching staff to develop late round picks into "Studs"?


Hererra was a Tice Product, I recall people calling for him to start long ago.
Glad he's turning out nicely.
and I can't really give Chilly much credit for EJ and Griff playing well.
Chilly doesn't coach the defense, I'd give more credit to their respective coaches.

Marrdro
08-07-2009, 07:32 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I like a lot of things about Childress, but not enough to make me think he is a good coach.

- I like the scheme, but both the WCO and Cover 2 are proven schemes that our known to work. I give him credit for running them correctly, but he is unable to amend or invent to make these schemes even better. The wildcat is a perfect example. Is Chilly smart enough to use the Wildcat? Sure. Was he smart enough to INVENT it? Hell no.

- The team is plagued by the simplest of mistakes. Mistakes which will lead to losses at any level, no just the pros. That is the sign of a bad coach.

- A great eye for talent but the coaching staff is simply terrible at developing it. Every stud on our team was a stud before he arrived here. Late round picks never turn out into surprises. The supposed QB genius hs his guy progressing slower than molasses. Where is our Willie Parker? Our Lance Briggs? Our Tom Brady?

That Belicheck comparison is ridiculous. He won a championship in his second year coaching the Patriots. Sure a .450 winning percentage with the Browns caused some doubts, but a coach with 5 years of head coaching experience is jsut as qualified, if not more qualified than a career assistant.


Agree with everything but that one......

Gordon was a nice suprise.
To bad about the injury.
Herrera is playing better than expected.
EJ has been a nice suprise since the new regime moved him back to MLB.
Love the pooh out of Griff.

Seriously though, there have been some head scratchers as well (AA comes to mind immediately)however, how quick do you expect a coaching staff to develop late round picks into "Studs"?


Hererra was a Tice Product, I recall people calling for him to start long ago.
Glad he's turning out nicely.
and I can't really give Chilly much credit for EJ and Griff playing well.
Chilly doesn't coach the defense, I'd give more credit to their respective coaches.


Who gives a crap who's product he was.
How did he play under Tice?
EJ and Herrara are fine examples of players the other staff had all but give up on.
Funny how alot of people forget about what was being said about EJ after his first stint at MLB and his play at OLB.

As to EJ and Griffs development. Like it or not, the Chiller has alot of say in the guy he taps to run the D.
;)

singersp
08-07-2009, 07:33 AM
What we should be getting from our coach........

http://imagecache5.art.com/p/LRG/14/1407/V6TP000Z/shaffer-smith-ice-cream-cone-with-many-colored-scoops.jpg



What we get from Childress.......

http://jeffatwood.typepad.com/atwoodzoo/images/menu_ice_cream_cone.jpg

NodakPaul
08-07-2009, 08:58 AM
"singersp" wrote:


What we should be getting from our coach........

http://imagecache5.art.com/p/LRG/14/1407/V6TP000Z/shaffer-smith-ice-cream-cone-with-many-colored-scoops.jpg



What we get from Childress.......

http://jeffatwood.typepad.com/atwoodzoo/images/menu_ice_cream_cone.jpg


At least it's a step up from what we got from Tice...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UYoyYPYwlpM/R4vI26eOzwI/AAAAAAAAAuo/KisrGa0TZAw/s320/dog%2Bshit.jpg

pack93z
08-07-2009, 10:05 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)

::)
Parcells @ Jets

::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)

::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC

::)
Ditka in NO

::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.

::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.


I will counter this argument with a single name...

Mike Sherman.

Has one of the best winning percentages in Packer history.. yet he can't secure another job in the pros and is failing miserably in college.

Hell of a nice guy, bled the Packer colors truly.. yet in a lot of ways took a superbowl caliber team for two years and handcuffed them with piss poor decisions in the crunch and some mind numbing play calls...

Wasn't a horrible coach, but wasn't ever going to take the Packers to the championship they desired.. he was too stubborn to admit he made mistakes and refused to control the loose cannon at QB.

Much of the same that I see of Chilly... but I am not arguing.. I want to see a few more years of Chilly until AP prime years are past. ;)

snowinapril
08-07-2009, 10:17 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I like a lot of things about Childress, but not enough to make me think he is a good coach.

- I like the scheme, but both the WCO and Cover 2 are proven schemes that our known to work. I give him credit for running them correctly, but he is unable to amend or invent to make these schemes even better. The wildcat is a perfect example. Is Chilly smart enough to use the Wildcat? Sure. Was he smart enough to INVENT it? Hell no.

- The team is plagued by the simplest of mistakes. Mistakes which will lead to losses at any level, no just the pros. That is the sign of a bad coach.

- A great eye for talent but the coaching staff is simply terrible at developing it. Every stud on our team was a stud before he arrived here. Late round picks never turn out into surprises. The supposed QB genius hs his guy progressing slower than molasses. Where is our Willie Parker? Our Lance Briggs? Our Tom Brady?

That Belicheck comparison is ridiculous. He won a championship in his second year coaching the Patriots. Sure a .450 winning percentage with the Browns caused some doubts, but a coach with 5 years of head coaching experience is jsut as qualified, if not more qualified than a career assistant.


Agree with everything but that one......

Gordon was a nice suprise.
To bad about the injury.
Herrera is playing better than expected.
EJ has been a nice suprise since the new regime moved him back to MLB.
Love the pooh out of Griff.

Seriously though, there have been some head scratchers as well (AA comes to mind immediately)however, how quick do you expect a coaching staff to develop late round picks into "Studs"?


Hererra was a Tice Product, I recall people calling for him to start long ago.
Glad he's turning out nicely.
and I can't really give Chilly much credit for EJ and Griff playing well.
Chilly doesn't coach the defense, I'd give more credit to their respective coaches.


Who gives a crap who's product he was.
How did he play under Tice?
EJ and Herrara are fine examples of players the other staff had all but give up on.
Funny how alot of people forget about what was being said about EJ after his first stint at MLB and his play at OLB.

As to EJ and Griffs development. Like it or not, the Chiller has alot of say in the guy he taps to run the D.

;)


Allison........ it is unfortunate they let him go but we have a ton of guys a WR.
We are going to have to make space.
Looks like they think that Jaymar is more worthy of developing at this point.
Rice, Harvin and BB aren't going anywhere and Wade is a good vet to have around in the mix.

You are right about EJ.
I thought about bringing that up earlier in the thread, then forgot about it.
He was forgotten about by the coaches and the fans.
We were righting him off. "He can't cover the pass" and
"he can't get back in coverage" and "he is not smart enough to be a MLB" were the things I remember hearing.
Yesterday NFLN showed some video from camp and they showed the hit by EJ on AD when tackling was off limits so to speak.
He just couldn't help himself.
It was more of a hard tap than a tackle but the guy is chomping at the bit to start tackling.

Mayock said that the tempo of camp was excellent.
I attribute that to the veteran team and the coaching staff.

Caine
08-07-2009, 10:26 AM
"pack93z" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)

::)
Parcells @ Jets

::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)

::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC

::)
Ditka in NO

::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.

::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.


I will counter this argument with a single name...

Mike Sherman.

Has one of the best winning percentages in Packer history.. yet he can't secure another job in the pros and is failing miserably in college.

Hell of a nice guy, bled the Packer colors truly.. yet in a lot of ways took a superbowl caliber team for two years and handcuffed them with piss poor decisions in the crunch and some mind numbing play calls...

Wasn't a horrible coach, but wasn't ever going to take the Packers to the championship they desired.. he was too stubborn to admit he made mistakes and refused to control the loose cannon at QB.

Much of the same that I see of Chilly... but I am not arguing.. I want to see a few more years of Chilly until AP prime years are past. ;)


HELLO!!!!!!!

When even the Packer fans recognize that the only thing that can stop (and HAS stopped) Peterson is Chiller, well....I can't imagine any justification for keeping the Chilled one around.
But you supporters keep running your pie-holes.
Keep blathering on about building success and slow and steady progress....

...I'll be belly up to the bar with a beer, laughing at your silly carcasses and calling you derogatory names.

Caine

tastywaves
08-07-2009, 10:35 AM
"Caine" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)

::)
Parcells @ Jets

::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)

::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC

::)
Ditka in NO

::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.

::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.


I will counter this argument with a single name...

Mike Sherman.

Has one of the best winning percentages in Packer history.. yet he can't secure another job in the pros and is failing miserably in college.

Hell of a nice guy, bled the Packer colors truly.. yet in a lot of ways took a superbowl caliber team for two years and handcuffed them with piss poor decisions in the crunch and some mind numbing play calls...

Wasn't a horrible coach, but wasn't ever going to take the Packers to the championship they desired.. he was too stubborn to admit he made mistakes and refused to control the loose cannon at QB.

Much of the same that I see of Chilly... but I am not arguing.. I want to see a few more years of Chilly until AP prime years are past. ;)


HELLO!!!!!!!

When even the Packer fans recognize that the only thing that can stop (and HAS stopped) Peterson is Chiller, well....I can't imagine any justification for keeping the Chilled one around.
But you supporters keep running your pie-holes.
Keep blathering on about building success and slow and steady progress....

...I'll be belly up to the bar with a beer, laughing at your silly carcasses and calling you derogatory names.

Caine


Somehow I think you would feel the same way if the Chiller wins the next two SB's.
I'm not the guy's biggest fan myself, but I think he has opened his mind a bit over the last few years and has grown as a HC.
Whether he will get to the point that makes me confident in him or not is still unknown.
But I will give him credit for improving
our club over the last few years.
He has to do it again this year, but he just might.....might.

i_bleed_purple
08-07-2009, 10:41 AM
"tastywaves" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)

::)
Parcells @ Jets

::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)

::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC

::)
Ditka in NO

::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.

::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.


I will counter this argument with a single name...

Mike Sherman.

Has one of the best winning percentages in Packer history.. yet he can't secure another job in the pros and is failing miserably in college.

Hell of a nice guy, bled the Packer colors truly.. yet in a lot of ways took a superbowl caliber team for two years and handcuffed them with piss poor decisions in the crunch and some mind numbing play calls...

Wasn't a horrible coach, but wasn't ever going to take the Packers to the championship they desired.. he was too stubborn to admit he made mistakes and refused to control the loose cannon at QB.

Much of the same that I see of Chilly... but I am not arguing.. I want to see a few more years of Chilly until AP prime years are past. ;)


HELLO!!!!!!!

When even the Packer fans recognize that the only thing that can stop (and HAS stopped) Peterson is Chiller, well....I can't imagine any justification for keeping the Chilled one around.
But you supporters keep running your pie-holes.
Keep blathering on about building success and slow and steady progress....

...I'll be belly up to the bar with a beer, laughing at your silly carcasses and calling you derogatory names.

Caine


Somehow I think you would feel the same way if the Chiller wins the next two SB's.
I'm not the guy's biggest fan myself, but I think he has opened his mind a bit over the last few years and has grown as a HC.
Whether he will get to the point that makes me confident in him or not is still unknown.
But I will give him credit for improving
our club over the last few years.
He has to do it again this year, but he just might.....might.




There was a guy in my school with a mental disability.
Over the years he's grown a bit as a person and student.
I give him credit for overcoming barriers, as he eventually graduated.
Does that make him a scholar?
No.

Same can be said for Chilly.
He came on, terrible as a coach.
He's made some improvements, despite having a #1 run offense/defense (the things he said win games... ironic isn't it?)
Has superstars at lots of positions, one of the more talented teams in the league, yet still struggles.
He's getting better, I'll give him credit, but does that make him a good coach?
No.

douginc
08-07-2009, 10:46 AM
I'm not going to claim I know for certain, since I'm not an expert football mind, but personally, I don't believe Childress is right for us as a coach down the line.
I would absolutely love it if he stayed on as a talent evaluator, because from that aspect, I am through the roof happy with the talent he has assessed and brought aboard this team.
Chester Taylor is one of the most underrated backs in all football.
Before him, remember our shitty RB corp?
We had Michael Bennett as a starter.
Yes, that still gives me a sour taste.
Getting AP in the draft wasn't 'dumb luck' either.
If it was just him falling to us at #7, the Falcons would have taken him at #6 instead of Safety Laron Landry.

But, the problem I have with Childress is that I believe no matter what level of talent he has, he cannot be creative on the field with his play calling and schemes.
I watched the Cardinals intently during the playoffs since I have relatives in Arizona and Iowa (Iowans still pull for Kurt Warner).
Their team was not even close, talent wise, to our team.
Certainly not on the defensive side.
But their offensive play calls were incredible.
They were innovative and confusing to the defenses.
I rarely see that from our team, and we have a potential H.O.F. in the backfield even.

Just my opinion, and I hope to hell I'm wrong, and the Vikes can sometime soon get the rings all of us are dying to see.
I agree with the other posters who showed that many coaches are wrongfully considered failures because of an inability to win the big one.
Dennis Green was not that bad a head coach.
Had he won it all in 98, he'd be a legend.
Hell, I'd have made a statue out of him.
Instead, he's quickly forgotten.

Marrdro
08-07-2009, 10:48 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"tastywaves" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)

::)
Parcells @ Jets

::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)

::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC

::)
Ditka in NO

::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.

::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.


I will counter this argument with a single name...

Mike Sherman.

Has one of the best winning percentages in Packer history.. yet he can't secure another job in the pros and is failing miserably in college.

Hell of a nice guy, bled the Packer colors truly.. yet in a lot of ways took a superbowl caliber team for two years and handcuffed them with piss poor decisions in the crunch and some mind numbing play calls...

Wasn't a horrible coach, but wasn't ever going to take the Packers to the championship they desired.. he was too stubborn to admit he made mistakes and refused to control the loose cannon at QB.

Much of the same that I see of Chilly... but I am not arguing.. I want to see a few more years of Chilly until AP prime years are past. ;)


HELLO!!!!!!!

When even the Packer fans recognize that the only thing that can stop (and HAS stopped) Peterson is Chiller, well....I can't imagine any justification for keeping the Chilled one around.
But you supporters keep running your pie-holes.
Keep blathering on about building success and slow and steady progress....

...I'll be belly up to the bar with a beer, laughing at your silly carcasses and calling you derogatory names.

Caine


Somehow I think you would feel the same way if the Chiller wins the next two SB's.
I'm not the guy's biggest fan myself, but I think he has opened his mind a bit over the last few years and has grown as a HC.
Whether he will get to the point that makes me confident in him or not is still unknown.
But I will give him credit for improving
our club over the last few years.
He has to do it again this year, but he just might.....might.




There was a guy in my school with a mental disability.

Over the years he's grown a bit as a person and student.
I give him credit for overcoming barriers, as he eventually graduated.

Does that make him a scholar?
No.

Same can be said for Chilly.
He came on, terrible as a coach.
He's made some improvements, despite having a #1 run offense/defense (the things he said win games... ironic isn't it?)
Has superstars at lots of positions, one of the more talented teams in the league, yet still struggles.
He's getting better, I'll give him credit, but does that make him a good coach?
No.

10-6/Div win isn't struggling my friend.

Is it a SB?
Nope, but hell, how many teams won the SB last year?

Long story short, am I 100% happy with him?
No, I think he really needs to look at his staff and thier process by which they prep this team, however, I can honestly say, that this is the best team I've seen in a long time.

We have a damn good defense, and what looks to be a offense with alot of nice pieces (most have enough experience this year) to compliment that defense.

Again, been a long time since I have seen a team like this.
Fix some consistency issues with respect to "Penalties/Poor execution" and we should take the next step this year.
Then throw in the whole "Big Picture" perspective that this team is only gonna get better, not worse because of the efforts of our FO to find/add nice pieces via the draft and FA when necessary and the outlook looks promising for years to come instead of the "Built to win now" mentality alot have come to believe in over the last regime.

tastywaves
08-07-2009, 10:57 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"tastywaves" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)

::)
Parcells @ Jets

::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)

::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC

::)
Ditka in NO

::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.

::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.


I will counter this argument with a single name...

Mike Sherman.

Has one of the best winning percentages in Packer history.. yet he can't secure another job in the pros and is failing miserably in college.

Hell of a nice guy, bled the Packer colors truly.. yet in a lot of ways took a superbowl caliber team for two years and handcuffed them with piss poor decisions in the crunch and some mind numbing play calls...

Wasn't a horrible coach, but wasn't ever going to take the Packers to the championship they desired.. he was too stubborn to admit he made mistakes and refused to control the loose cannon at QB.

Much of the same that I see of Chilly... but I am not arguing.. I want to see a few more years of Chilly until AP prime years are past. ;)


HELLO!!!!!!!

When even the Packer fans recognize that the only thing that can stop (and HAS stopped) Peterson is Chiller, well....I can't imagine any justification for keeping the Chilled one around.
But you supporters keep running your pie-holes.
Keep blathering on about building success and slow and steady progress....

...I'll be belly up to the bar with a beer, laughing at your silly carcasses and calling you derogatory names.

Caine


Somehow I think you would feel the same way if the Chiller wins the next two SB's.
I'm not the guy's biggest fan myself, but I think he has opened his mind a bit over the last few years and has grown as a HC.
Whether he will get to the point that makes me confident in him or not is still unknown.
But I will give him credit for improving
our club over the last few years.
He has to do it again this year, but he just might.....might.




There was a guy in my school with a mental disability.

Over the years he's grown a bit as a person and student.
I give him credit for overcoming barriers, as he eventually graduated.

Does that make him a scholar?
No.

Same can be said for Chilly.
He came on, terrible as a coach.
He's made some improvements, despite having a #1 run offense/defense (the things he said win games... ironic isn't it?)
Has superstars at lots of positions, one of the more talented teams in the league, yet still struggles.
He's getting better, I'll give him credit, but does that make him a good coach?
No.


You almost got there IBP.
IMO we are in a better position going into this year than we have been in a long time and part of that credit needs to go to Childress.
Now, until we have a situation like New England, we can all bitch and moan that we deserve better.
Unfortunately, superstar HC's are like superstar QB's.
There are not that many in the league and you try to do what you can to make the most out of what is available.

If Childress doesn't improve the team this year yet again, then he probably will get his walking papers.
But if he does improve the team, even if we don't win it all, he probably deserves to stay.


I would like our HC to be better than what we have, but it could be a lot worse.

Marrdro
08-07-2009, 11:00 AM
"douginc" wrote:


I'm not going to claim I know for certain, since I'm not an expert football mind, but personally, I don't believe Childress is right for us as a coach down the line.
I would absolutely love it if he stayed on as a talent evaluator, because from that aspect, I am through the roof happy with the talent he has assessed and brought aboard this team.
Chester Taylor is one of the most underrated backs in all football.
Before him, remember our poohie RB corp?
We had Michael Bennett as a starter.
Yes, that still gives me a sour taste.
Getting AP in the draft wasn't 'dumb luck' either.
If it was just him falling to us at #7, the Falcons would have taken him at #6 instead of Safety Laron Landry.

But, the problem I have with Childress is that I believe no matter what level of talent he has, he cannot be creative on the field with his play calling and schemes.
I watched the Cardinals intently during the playoffs since I have relatives in Arizona and Iowa (Iowans still pull for Kurt Warner).
Their team was not even close, talent wise, to our team.
Certainly not on the defensive side.
But their offensive play calls were incredible.
They were innovative and confusing to the defenses.
I rarely see that from our team, and we have a potential H.O.F. in the backfield even.

Just my opinion, and I hope to hell I'm wrong, and the Vikes can sometime soon get the rings all of us are dying to see.
I agree with the other posters who showed that many coaches are wrongfully considered failures because of an inability to win the big one.
Dennis Green was not that bad a head coach.
Had he won it all in 98, he'd be a legend.
Hell, I'd have made a statue out of him.
Instead, he's quickly forgotten.

Good post, however, the Chiller isn't the talent evaluator.

He, as the HC, articulates to the talent evaluator, what type of player(s) he needs and the talent evaluator (and his scouts) go out and find several options either as FA or Draftees and they get his approval.

Then the talent evaluator tries to draft/sign the best of that bunch.

i_bleed_purple
08-07-2009, 11:05 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"tastywaves" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:




More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)

::)
Parcells @ Jets

::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)

::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC

::)
Ditka in NO

::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.

::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.


I will counter this argument with a single name...

Mike Sherman.

Has one of the best winning percentages in Packer history.. yet he can't secure another job in the pros and is failing miserably in college.

Hell of a nice guy, bled the Packer colors truly.. yet in a lot of ways took a superbowl caliber team for two years and handcuffed them with piss poor decisions in the crunch and some mind numbing play calls...

Wasn't a horrible coach, but wasn't ever going to take the Packers to the championship they desired.. he was too stubborn to admit he made mistakes and refused to control the loose cannon at QB.

Much of the same that I see of Chilly... but I am not arguing.. I want to see a few more years of Chilly until AP prime years are past. ;)


HELLO!!!!!!!

When even the Packer fans recognize that the only thing that can stop (and HAS stopped) Peterson is Chiller, well....I can't imagine any justification for keeping the Chilled one around.
But you supporters keep running your pie-holes.
Keep blathering on about building success and slow and steady progress....

...I'll be belly up to the bar with a beer, laughing at your silly carcasses and calling you derogatory names.

Caine


Somehow I think you would feel the same way if the Chiller wins the next two SB's.
I'm not the guy's biggest fan myself, but I think he has opened his mind a bit over the last few years and has grown as a HC.
Whether he will get to the point that makes me confident in him or not is still unknown.
But I will give him credit for improving
our club over the last few years.
He has to do it again this year, but he just might.....might.




There was a guy in my school with a mental disability.

Over the years he's grown a bit as a person and student.
I give him credit for overcoming barriers, as he eventually graduated.

Does that make him a scholar?
No.

Same can be said for Chilly.
He came on, terrible as a coach.
He's made some improvements, despite having a #1 run offense/defense (the things he said win games... ironic isn't it?)
Has superstars at lots of positions, one of the more talented teams in the league, yet still struggles.
He's getting better, I'll give him credit, but does that make him a good coach?
No.

10-6/Div win isn't struggling my friend.

Is it a SB?
Nope, but hell, how many teams won the SB last year?
No, thats not struggling, but we're a much talented team than we play.

For fun, and this is my opinion, but lets see how talented we are compared to other playoff teams;

Philly - close, their coaching though helps them play better than they are
Carolina - less talented
Atlanta - less talented
Arizona - less talented
Giants - Close

Steelers - More Talented
Titans - Less Talented (I've said it all season, IMO, the titan's were not nearly as good as advertised, as shown by their early exit)
Colts - more talented
Chargers - less talented
Dolphins - less talented
Ravens - more talented

IMO, we ahve the players to be one of the top teams in the league.
If we had even one coach worth a damn, we'd be there.



Long story short, am I 100% happy with him?
No, I think he really needs to look at his staff and thier process by which they prep this team, however, I can honestly say, that this is the best team I've seen in a long time.

I agree with this.
This is a great looking Group of players.
Won't be a great team until either our coordinators and HC step it up, or take a step out the door.



We have a damn good defense, and what looks to be a offense with alot of nice pieces (most have enough experience this year) to compliment that defense.
Think of it like a model.
You open the box, and everything is there for you.
You need a person to put it all together.
Some people can make a work of art, some people can make a piece of crap.




I will give Chilly a little bit of leniency.
Co-#1 reason for us not playing well, despite all our playmakers is the bottleneck at QB.

snowinapril
08-07-2009, 11:21 AM
"tastywaves" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"tastywaves" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"pack93z" wrote:




More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)

::)
Parcells @ Jets

::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)

::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC

::)
Ditka in NO

::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.

::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.


I will counter this argument with a single name...

Mike Sherman.

Has one of the best winning percentages in Packer history.. yet he can't secure another job in the pros and is failing miserably in college.

Hell of a nice guy, bled the Packer colors truly.. yet in a lot of ways took a superbowl caliber team for two years and handcuffed them with piss poor decisions in the crunch and some mind numbing play calls...

Wasn't a horrible coach, but wasn't ever going to take the Packers to the championship they desired.. he was too stubborn to admit he made mistakes and refused to control the loose cannon at QB.

Much of the same that I see of Chilly... but I am not arguing.. I want to see a few more years of Chilly until AP prime years are past. ;)


HELLO!!!!!!!

When even the Packer fans recognize that the only thing that can stop (and HAS stopped) Peterson is Chiller, well....I can't imagine any justification for keeping the Chilled one around.
But you supporters keep running your pie-holes.
Keep blathering on about building success and slow and steady progress....

...I'll be belly up to the bar with a beer, laughing at your silly carcasses and calling you derogatory names.

Caine


Somehow I think you would feel the same way if the Chiller wins the next two SB's.
I'm not the guy's biggest fan myself, but I think he has opened his mind a bit over the last few years and has grown as a HC.
Whether he will get to the point that makes me confident in him or not is still unknown.
But I will give him credit for improving
our club over the last few years.
He has to do it again this year, but he just might.....might.




There was a guy in my school with a mental disability.

Over the years he's grown a bit as a person and student.
I give him credit for overcoming barriers, as he eventually graduated.

Does that make him a scholar?
No.

Same can be said for Chilly.
He came on, terrible as a coach.
He's made some improvements, despite having a #1 run offense/defense (the things he said win games... ironic isn't it?)
Has superstars at lots of positions, one of the more talented teams in the league, yet still struggles.
He's getting better, I'll give him credit, but does that make him a good coach?
No.


You almost got there IBP.
IMO we are in a better position going into this year than we have been in a long time and part of that credit needs to go to Childress.
Now, until we have a situation like New England, we can all beeyatch and moan that we deserve better.
Unfortunately, superstar HC's are like superstar QB's.
There are not that many in the league and you try to do what you can to make the most out of what is available.

If Childress doesn't improve the team this year yet again, then he probably will get his walking papers.
But if he does improve the team, even if we don't win it all, he probably deserves to stay.


I would like our HC to be better than what we have, but it could be a lot worse.


I am going to add to your post.

I saw an interview with Kelly Clemmens (NYJ).
They asked him about the QB competition.
He said, I have been here before.
I know the trick and pony show.
I know the offense.
All I have to do is try to make myself better and when I show that hopefully I will be at the top of the competition.
That was paraphrased.
That is where TJ should be.
Sage is on that learning curve trying to figure out the pony show.
Sage has been around the league and should pick it up quickly, we hope!


I know that Chilly has taken it upon himself to "teach" the QB position.
He is a bit behind schedule and I am sure he would have like to have had TJ and himself to the position that Clemmens says he is in, which is just doing minor thing to improve.
I am also sure that Chilly and Bevell wish they had at least one season in the past 3 where a QB was able to play the whole season.
The one QB that had the largest stretch is no longer on this team.
Some previous post suggested that Sage was Rick's guy.
Not keeping Frerotte because he isn't the long term solution might have been a mistake by not keeping the guy with the most experience on the field last year.
Chilly may have screwed up by yanking him and putting TJ in but I really think he wanted to see what TJ was made of at the end of the season.

I would have liked to have had Chilly have a QB play the whole season and evaluate him.
It is unfortunate, but sometime people aren't afforded those kind of luxuries, like time and consistency. Walking papers might be in store for him if he doesn't improve.
It may be deemed "not fast enough."

Marrdro
08-07-2009, 11:24 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"tastywaves" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"tastywaves" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:






More coaching thoughts:

Unsuccessful (some truth mostly sarcastic) Coaches:
The Walrus (Holmgren) in Seattle

::)
Gibbs in Washington (2nd time)

::)
Parcells @ Jets

::)
Parcells @ Cowboys ( he fooled me on this one, I thought he primed them for success)

::)
Reid in Philly (what a loser to go to the NFC championship 5 times and lose)
::)
Seifert in Carolina

::)
Vermeil in KC

::)
Ditka in NO

::)

Shula the last 20 year of his career, never won the Super Bowl.

::)

What about Fischer in Tenn?
Is he the next Cowher, all he has to do is win the Super Bowl and he will be great.
Fischer has won just under 60% of his games and isn't an elite coach because he hasn't won the big one at least once.


Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean that you will win another one with another team. See the list above.

Just because you haven't won a Super Bowl yet, doesn't mean you can't win one eventually (Cowher and possibly Fischer)

The smartest coach was Walsh, he got out before he could tarnish himself.
Shula won with the Colts then twice with Miami.
He then went on to coach 20 year of mostly winning football without the Super Bowl.
He even had a hall of fame QB from 1983 to 1999.

I still consider Fischer and Reid very successful coaches.
I think Parcells was successful in Dallas even though his record wasn't great in Dallas.


If I was going to pick one coach that Chilly might resemble or even has a chance to resemble, that would be Vermeil.


I will counter this argument with a single name...

Mike Sherman.

Has one of the best winning percentages in Packer history.. yet he can't secure another job in the pros and is failing miserably in college.

Hell of a nice guy, bled the Packer colors truly.. yet in a lot of ways took a superbowl caliber team for two years and handcuffed them with piss poor decisions in the crunch and some mind numbing play calls...

Wasn't a horrible coach, but wasn't ever going to take the Packers to the championship they desired.. he was too stubborn to admit he made mistakes and refused to control the loose cannon at QB.

Much of the same that I see of Chilly... but I am not arguing.. I want to see a few more years of Chilly until AP prime years are past. ;)


HELLO!!!!!!!

When even the Packer fans recognize that the only thing that can stop (and HAS stopped) Peterson is Chiller, well....I can't imagine any justification for keeping the Chilled one around.
But you supporters keep running your pie-holes.
Keep blathering on about building success and slow and steady progress....

...I'll be belly up to the bar with a beer, laughing at your silly carcasses and calling you derogatory names.

Caine


Somehow I think you would feel the same way if the Chiller wins the next two SB's.
I'm not the guy's biggest fan myself, but I think he has opened his mind a bit over the last few years and has grown as a HC.
Whether he will get to the point that makes me confident in him or not is still unknown.
But I will give him credit for improving
our club over the last few years.
He has to do it again this year, but he just might.....might.




There was a guy in my school with a mental disability.

Over the years he's grown a bit as a person and student.
I give him credit for overcoming barriers, as he eventually graduated.

Does that make him a scholar?
No.

Same can be said for Chilly.
He came on, terrible as a coach.
He's made some improvements, despite having a #1 run offense/defense (the things he said win games... ironic isn't it?)
Has superstars at lots of positions, one of the more talented teams in the league, yet still struggles.
He's getting better, I'll give him credit, but does that make him a good coach?
No.


You almost got there IBP.
IMO we are in a better position going into this year than we have been in a long time and part of that credit needs to go to Childress.
Now, until we have a situation like New England, we can all beeyatch and moan that we deserve better.
Unfortunately, superstar HC's are like superstar QB's.
There are not that many in the league and you try to do what you can to make the most out of what is available.

If Childress doesn't improve the team this year yet again, then he probably will get his walking papers.
But if he does improve the team, even if we don't win it all, he probably deserves to stay.


I would like our HC to be better than what we have, but it could be a lot worse.


I am going to add to your post.

I saw an interview with Kelly Clemmens (NYJ).
They asked him about the QB competition.
He said, I have been here before.
I know the trick and pony show.
I know the offense.
All I have to do is try to make myself better and when I show that hopefully I will be at the top of the competition.
That was paraphrased.
That is where TJ should be.
Sage is on that learning curve trying to figure out the pony show.
Sage has been around the league and should pick it up quickly, we hope!


I know that Chilly has taken it upon himself to "teach" the QB position.
He is a bit behind schedule and I am sure he would have like to have had TJ and himself to the position that Clemmens says he is in, which is just doing minor thing to improve.
I am also sure that Chilly and Bevell wish they had at least one season in the past 3 where a QB was able to play the whole season.
The one QB that had the largest stretch is no longer on this team.
Some previous post suggested that Sage was Rick's guy.
Not keeping Frerotte because he isn't the long term solution might have been a mistake by not keeping the guy with the most experience on the field last year.
Chilly may have screwed up by yanking him and putting TJ in but I really think he wanted to see what TJ was made of at the end of the season.

I would have liked to have had Chilly have a QB play the whole season and evaluate him.
It is unfortunate, but sometime people aren't afforded those kind of luxuries, like time and consistency. Walking papers might be in store for him if he doesn't improve.
It may be deemed "not fast enough."

Nice post Sno......

Quick question and a comment.

Did I miss something?
Is the Chiller now coaching the QB's or is Coach Rogers still doing it?

Comment:
I don't think anything can rattle TJ, including the benching.
One of the few attributes that kid has that I admire is his ability to let stuff roll off of him.
He has gone through a hell of alot more than some of the other young QBs in the league and we haven't seen fits out of him like we have them.

snowinapril
08-07-2009, 11:37 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Nice post Sno......

Quick question and a comment.

Did I miss something?
Is the Chiller now coaching the QB's or is Coach Rogers still doing it?

Comment:
I don't think anything can rattle TJ, including the benching.
One of the few attributes that kid has that I admire is his ability to let stuff roll off of him.
He has gone through a hell of alot more than some of the other young QBs in the league and we haven't seen fits out of him like we have them.



I was actually referring to coaching as TJ is his (Chilly) project.
I can't say how much (%) each of them put towards TJ or Sage.

snowinapril
08-07-2009, 12:17 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


Here are some stats to ponder on.......

How many people would have given up on Belichick?

BellyCheck - first 5 years in Cleveland
1991 - 6-10

Kosar
1992 - 7-9


Tomczak
1993 - 7-9


Vinny T
1994 - 11-5

Vinny T
1995 - 5-11

Vinny T

BellyCheck - with Pats after a 4 year assistant coaching stint.
2000 - 5-11

Bledsoe
2001 - 11-5

Brady
2002 -
9-7

Brady
2003 - 14-2

Brady
2004 - 14-2

Brady
2005 - 10-6

Brady
2006 - 12-4

Brady
2007 - 16-0

Brady
2008 - 11-5

Cassel

The other thing to note is that the two coaches before him were Pete Carroll and Bill Parcells.

How many people would have given up on Cowher after his 1998, 1999, and 2000 seasons?

Cowher and the Steelers
1997 - 11-5
Stewart
1998 - 7-9

Stewart
1999 - 6-10
Tomczak
2000 - 9-7

Stewart



This was in a larger post and I didn't pull out the fact that both of these coaches had success when they had a stable QB situation.
Both had good O-Lines, Good D's, Bettis was a solid back, Bellichick didn't have a standout back, but he did have solid contributors.

Vinny was a solid as it got in Cleveland.
He seemed to be a football minded guy but didn't have quite enough to put them over the top.

Brady winning the big one the first year he got to start, that is an amazing feat.
That would have been like Rodgers going to the SB last season and winning.


Bledsoe had a solid arm and he could make throws, but for some reason, he just wasn't the personality to do the job.
He was kind of a puss!


Stewart was not a solution in Pitt, he was a make do option.
They tried and tried to make it work.
They got creative with the Slash thing.
Cowher did try to mold the offense to the player, but how did that work?

We need a solid contributor at QB.
Chilly is going to live an die on this.
Using some Wildcat might be our way of adding Slash.
But I think that Chilly has been reluctant to do to much switching because he has been implementing team wide the WCO.

Marrdro
08-07-2009, 02:15 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Nice post Sno......

Quick question and a comment.

Did I miss something?
Is the Chiller now coaching the QB's or is Coach Rogers still doing it?

Comment:
I don't think anything can rattle TJ, including the benching.
One of the few attributes that kid has that I admire is his ability to let stuff roll off of him.
He has gone through a hell of alot more than some of the other young QBs in the league and we haven't seen fits out of him like we have them.



I was actually referring to coaching as TJ is his (Chilly) project.
I can't say how much (%) each of them put towards TJ or Sage.

Whew, thanks.
I for one don't buy into the whole "QB Guru" that seems to be talked about alot on here and in the local papers.

Didn't want him in there making Coach Rogers job harder.
On a side note, I am not so sure I am 100% that cat anymore either.
;)

Marrdro
08-07-2009, 02:18 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


Here are some stats to ponder on.......

How many people would have given up on Belichick?

BellyCheck - first 5 years in Cleveland
1991 - 6-10

Kosar
1992 - 7-9


Tomczak
1993 - 7-9


Vinny T
1994 - 11-5

Vinny T
1995 - 5-11

Vinny T

BellyCheck - with Pats after a 4 year assistant coaching stint.
2000 - 5-11

Bledsoe
2001 - 11-5

Brady
2002 -
9-7

Brady
2003 - 14-2

Brady
2004 - 14-2

Brady
2005 - 10-6

Brady
2006 - 12-4

Brady
2007 - 16-0

Brady
2008 - 11-5

Cassel

The other thing to note is that the two coaches before him were Pete Carroll and Bill Parcells.

How many people would have given up on Cowher after his 1998, 1999, and 2000 seasons?

Cowher and the Steelers
1997 - 11-5
Stewart
1998 - 7-9

Stewart
1999 - 6-10
Tomczak
2000 - 9-7

Stewart



This was in a larger post and I didn't pull out the fact that both of these coaches had success when they had a stable QB situation.
Both had good O-Lines, Good D's, Bettis was a solid back, Bellichick didn't have a standout back, but he did have solid contributors.

Vinny was a solid as it got in Cleveland.
He seemed to be a football minded guy but didn't have quite enough to put them over the top.

Brady winning the big one the first year he got to start, that is an amazing feat.
That would have been like Rodgers going to the SB last season and winning.


Bledsoe had a solid arm and he could make throws, but for some reason, he just wasn't the personality to do the job.
He was kind of a puss!


Stewart was not a solution in Pitt, he was a make do option.
They tried and tried to make it work.
They got creative with the Slash thing.
Cowher did try to mold the offense to the player, but how did that work?

We need a solid contributor at QB.
Chilly is going to live an die on this.
Using some Wildcat might be our way of adding Slash.
But I think that Chilly has been reluctant to do to much switching because he has been implementing team wide the WCO.
I remember that post.
As always, you have some great stuff......

One quick comment.......

Not to come off as a Chiller supporter or anything (Don't want Caine after me) but he has been implementing things in all 3 facets my friend.......

O
D
ST's

Anyone taken alook at who is really left from the Tice era?

Purple Floyd
08-07-2009, 03:43 PM
Mike Tice was not a great coach, but if he were retained and given what Childress has been given we wouls have a better team and a better record than we have gotten from Childress.

Zeus
08-07-2009, 03:46 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mike Tice was not a great coach, but if he were retained and given what Childress has been given we wouls have a better team and a better record than we have gotten from Childress.


No fucking way.

=Z=

AngloVike
08-07-2009, 03:58 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mike Tice was not a great coach, but if he were retained and given what Childress has been given we wouls have a better team and a better record than we have gotten from Childress.


No fricken way.

=Z=

now to be fair I can see UffDaVikes view on this. Tice was made HC too soon in his career, if he had done time as an OC prior to HC then he would have been better prepared. Don't forget Ol' Red didn't want to spend more than he could get away with else Tice would have been able to have brought in better assistants etc than he did. He did the best that he could as obviously he wasn't going to turn down the chance of being HC.
Other teams had been keeping tabs on him - which was why he was given the assistant HC title in Green's last season to keep him in Minny.
Yes he did stupid things like the Randy ratio etc but more experience prior would have helped him to mature more prior to being a HC. That time has backfired on him and pushed him back in league rankings and perception. Many forget what a great OL we had under his coaching so he's not as bad as many would like to say.

I wouldn't like to guarantee that he would have had a better team and better record for sure but I reckon he would have a better record and rep in the league

NodakPaul
08-07-2009, 04:01 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mike Tice was not a great coach, but if he were retained and given what Childress has been given we wouls have a better team and a better record than we have gotten from Childress.


That is an impossible statement to make.

I tend to disagree because Tice, by his own admission, was only keeping together the strategies and plays developed under Green.
He contributed NONE of his own coaching to the mix.

Purple Floyd
08-07-2009, 11:02 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mike Tice was not a great coach, but if he were retained and given what Childress has been given we wouls have a better team and a better record than we have gotten from Childress.


That is an impossible statement to make.

I tend to disagree because Tice, by his own admission, was only keeping together the strategies and plays developed under Green.
He contributed NONE of his own coaching to the mix.



Actually that is quite incorrect. Tice did change the offense- probably more than Childress did. I have posted
links several times for =Z= as that has been his opinion too.

I will just say his 9-7 record in 2005 was done with less talent than the 10-6 Childress had last year and less than Childress had fpr his 8-8 or 6-10 seasons.

Purple Floyd
08-07-2009, 11:03 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mike Tice was not a great coach, but if he were retained and given what Childress has been given we wouls have a better team and a better record than we have gotten from Childress.


No fucking way.

=Z=


Absofuckinglutely way ;)

MVIKING7
08-08-2009, 09:47 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


Hear me out!


Wait until CMac sees this.
He'll pop a vein in his head.

=Z=
God I hore not.....but if he does, can we watch? ??? ;D

singersp
08-08-2009, 10:00 AM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


What we should be getting from our coach........

http://imagecache5.art.com/p/LRG/14/1407/V6TP000Z/shaffer-smith-ice-cream-cone-with-many-colored-scoops.jpg



What we get from Childress.......

http://jeffatwood.typepad.com/atwoodzoo/images/menu_ice_cream_cone.jpg


At least it's a step up from what we got from Tice...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UYoyYPYwlpM/R4vI26eOzwI/AAAAAAAAAuo/KisrGa0TZAw/s320/dog%2Bshit.jpg


How well do you think Childress would be doing with Tice's coaching staff, which was considerably smaller (Childress has 20 coaches), with Cottrell as DC & with Loney coaching both the O-line & serving as OC?

NodakPaul
08-08-2009, 10:34 AM
"singersp" wrote:



How well do you think Childress would be doing with Tice's coaching staff, which was considerably smaller (Childress has 20 coaches), with Cottrell as DC & with Loney coaching both the O-line & serving as OC?




I doubt he would work like that.
Red was a moron for hiring the worst and cheapest coaches out there - including Tice.
Tice just put on his Oh Gee Happy Dog face and stupidly accepted the shit that Red fed him.
He wasn't a coach, he was a lacky.

But for a lacky he did an OK job.

Purple Floyd
08-08-2009, 10:38 AM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:



How well do you think Childress would be doing with Tice's coaching staff, which was considerably smaller (Childress has 20 coaches), with Cottrell as DC & with Loney coaching both the O-line & serving as OC?




I doubt he would work like that.
Red was a moron for hiring the worst and cheapest coaches out there - including Tice.
Tice just put on his Oh Gee Happy Dog face and stupidly accepted the shit that Red fed him.
He wasn't a coach, he was a lacky.

But for a lacky he did an OK job.


But are you saying he would have had a better coaching record with Red as the Owner, no FA talent aquisitions, FA's leaving and being traded as fast as possible to save money and a skeleton coaching staff? If so maybe Wilf should gut the team and staff and we can go to the SB.

NodakPaul
08-08-2009, 10:45 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mike Tice was not a great coach, but if he were retained and given what Childress has been given we wouls have a better team and a better record than we have gotten from Childress.


That is an impossible statement to make.

I tend to disagree because Tice, by his own admission, was only keeping together the strategies and plays developed under Green.
He contributed NONE of his own coaching to the mix.



Actually that is quite incorrect. Tice did change the offense- probably more than Childress did. I have posted
links several times for =Z= as that has been his opinion too.

I will just say his 9-7 record in 2005 was done with less talent than the 10-6 Childress had last year and less than Childress had fpr his 8-8 or 6-10 seasons.


I haven't ever seen those links.
Care to dig them up again?
Of course, if you are talking about the "Randy Ratio" then I will give you that.
That one was ALL Tice...

Tice built up Daunte's already head-case sized ego.
He was a friend to the players, not a coach, as evident by that amazing lack of discipline that the team had.
His fast starts followed by amazing collapses is further evidence of his inability to coach a team through a season.
You are right in that he had less talent in 05 than Childress did last year.
I would put it about the same as Childress did in 07, and more than Childress did in 06.
The only time Tice made the playoffs, he did it on the collapse of other teams, not the strength of the Vikings.
The win in Lambeau just goes to show you why we love this game, because any team, even the underdog, can win on any given Sunday.
They cannot, however, do it consistently (again, a concept Tice was able to prove).
Tice couldn't get draft picks in on time, and made a Raider-like pick of Williamson, making the wonderful quote "you can't coach speed."
Well, apparently you can't coach catching either.

Tice, coupled with Red, made the Vikings a laughing stock.
Childress, backed by Wilf, has made the Vikings one of the best defenses in the NFL, and an offense that is a single player away from greatness. Has Childress made mistakes? Absolutely.
But they are not even comparable in terms of numbers or impact as the bonehead mistakes that Tice made.
Tice was the Tarvaris Jackson of coaches.
Thrust into a position he wasn't ready for, not given all the tools needed to succeed, doing his best, but in the end woefully unable to do the job at the level he needs to do it.

Purple Floyd
08-08-2009, 01:20 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mike Tice was not a great coach, but if he were retained and given what Childress has been given we wouls have a better team and a better record than we have gotten from Childress.


That is an impossible statement to make.

I tend to disagree because Tice, by his own admission, was only keeping together the strategies and plays developed under Green.
He contributed NONE of his own coaching to the mix.



Actually that is quite incorrect. Tice did change the offense- probably more than Childress did. I have posted
links several times for =Z= as that has been his opinion too.

I will just say his 9-7 record in 2005 was done with less talent than the 10-6 Childress had last year and less than Childress had fpr his 8-8 or 6-10 seasons.


I haven't ever seen those links.
Care to dig them up again?
Of course, if you are talking about the "Randy Ratio" then I will give you that.
That one was ALL Tice...

Tice built up Daunte's already head-case sized ego.
He was a friend to the players, not a coach, as evident by that amazing lack of discipline that the team had.
His fast starts followed by amazing collapses is further evidence of his inability to coach a team through a season.
You are right in that he had less talent in 05 than Childress did last year.
I would put it about the same as Childress did in 07, and more than Childress did in 06.
The only time Tice made the playoffs, he did it on the collapse of other teams, not the strength of the Vikings.
The win in Lambeau just goes to show you why we love this game, because any team, even the underdog, can win on any given Sunday.
They cannot, however, do it consistently (again, a concept Tice was able to prove).
Tice couldn't get draft picks in on time, and made a Raider-like pick of Williamson, making the wonderful quote "you can't coach speed."
Well, apparently you can't coach catching either.

Tice, coupled with Red, made the Vikings a laughing stock.
Childress, backed by Wilf, has made the Vikings one of the best defenses in the NFL, and an offense that is a single player away from greatness. Has Childress made mistakes? Absolutely.
But they are not even comparable in terms of numbers or impact as the bonehead mistakes that Tice made.
Tice was the Tarvaris Jackson of coaches.
Thrust into a position he wasn't ready for, not given all the tools needed to succeed, doing his best, but in the end woefully unable to do the job at the level he needs to do it.


While the Randy Ratio gets all of the attention, this came out of the same interview.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_26_226/ai_95676806/pg_3/


X's and O's

We're going back to a two-tight end offense, sort of the Joe Gibbs offense, which we ran here in the early '90s. I think in a two-tight end offense you can be more balanced in your formations and you pose more problems for the defense. It's hard for the defense to decide where your strength is. Secondly, you can run the ball better out of two-tight end formations; that's a proven fact. Thirdly, I don't particularly like the "T" as a bread-and-butter formation.

Now, if you can read that and determine that he didn't change anything I would be interested in the metrics used to make the case. ;D

Back to the randy ratio- It is common on here to bash Tice for somehow revealing to his opponents what our game plan was going to be. Here is the complete unedited statement. I don't see anything tipping of a defensive coordinator. Instead, I see a coach who understands that you cannot use the same player in the same way and still be successful in this league. Something I have no indication Childress understands.



The Randy ratio

My vision this year is that we'll win more than we lose. I believe we can get to the playoffs. Being as young as we are, if we can start fast, I think that can carry over. Confidence is a factor in any sport, and when you have a lot of good, young athletes who start believing, look out.

Of course, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is going to be a direct correlation between our success and the role Randy Moss plays.

The first assignment I gave Charlie Baggett, our receivers coach, was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results. One thing that popped up in Charlie's eyes was that when we threw the ball in Randy's direction 40 percent of the time, we won 80 percent of those games. We only did that in five games, but we won four of those five. So we're going to shoot for that ratio with Randy this season.

We're going to have a lot of different ways for Randy to touch the ball. About all he used to run were vertical and deep in routes. But he's going to catch a lot more of those short, intermediate passes--those dodge routes that used to be Cris Carter's forte. You're going to see him run comebacks, go vertical, come out of the backfield on little swing routes and even run reverses.

As far as how good of a coach he was- I am not contending he was a great coach, just that he was better than Childress. That may not be saying much.

As far as being a laughing stock with Tice and Red, I cannot guess what the team might have looked like with Childress coaching when Red was there. He has been given great tools and still has problems with in game decisions. Put him into the same situation Tice was in and I believe he would have imploded.

I was fine with Wilf getting rid of Tice because I do not believe he would have coached us to the SB. That does not change the fact that I do not believe we took a step ahead with his replacement.

V4L
08-08-2009, 01:46 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mike Tice was not a great coach, but if he were retained and given what Childress has been given we wouls have a better team and a better record than we have gotten from Childress.


That is an impossible statement to make.

I tend to disagree because Tice, by his own admission, was only keeping together the strategies and plays developed under Green.
He contributed NONE of his own coaching to the mix.



Actually that is quite incorrect. Tice did change the offense- probably more than Childress did. I have posted
links several times for =Z= as that has been his opinion too.

I will just say his 9-7 record in 2005 was done with less talent than the 10-6 Childress had last year and less than Childress had fpr his 8-8 or 6-10 seasons.


I haven't ever seen those links.
Care to dig them up again?
Of course, if you are talking about the "Randy Ratio" then I will give you that.
That one was ALL Tice...

Tice built up Daunte's already head-case sized ego.
He was a friend to the players, not a coach, as evident by that amazing lack of discipline that the team had.
His fast starts followed by amazing collapses is further evidence of his inability to coach a team through a season.
You are right in that he had less talent in 05 than Childress did last year.
I would put it about the same as Childress did in 07, and more than Childress did in 06.
The only time Tice made the playoffs, he did it on the collapse of other teams, not the strength of the Vikings.
The win in Lambeau just goes to show you why we love this game, because any team, even the underdog, can win on any given Sunday.
They cannot, however, do it consistently (again, a concept Tice was able to prove).
Tice couldn't get draft picks in on time, and made a Raider-like pick of Williamson, making the wonderful quote "you can't coach speed."
Well, apparently you can't coach catching either.

Tice, coupled with Red, made the Vikings a laughing stock.
Childress, backed by Wilf, has made the Vikings one of the best defenses in the NFL, and an offense that is a single player away from greatness. Has Childress made mistakes? Absolutely.
But they are not even comparable in terms of numbers or impact as the bonehead mistakes that Tice made.
Tice was the Tarvaris Jackson of coaches.
Thrust into a position he wasn't ready for, not given all the tools needed to succeed, doing his best, but in the end woefully unable to do the job at the level he needs to do it.


While the Randy Ratio gets all of the attention, this came out of the same interview.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_26_226/ai_95676806/pg_3/


X's and O's

We're going back to a two-tight end offense, sort of the Joe Gibbs offense, which we ran here in the early '90s. I think in a two-tight end offense you can be more balanced in your formations and you pose more problems for the defense. It's hard for the defense to decide where your strength is. Secondly, you can run the ball better out of two-tight end formations; that's a proven fact. Thirdly, I don't particularly like the "T" as a bread-and-butter formation.

Now, if you can read that and determine that he didn't change anything I would be interested in the metrics used to make the case. ;D

Back to the randy ratio- It is common on here to bash Tice for somehow revealing to his opponents what our game plan was going to be. Here is the complete unedited statement. I don't see anything tipping of a defensive coordinator. Instead, I see a coach who understands that you cannot use the same player in the same way and still be successful in this league. Something I have no indication Childress understands.



The Randy ratio

My vision this year is that we'll win more than we lose. I believe we can get to the playoffs. Being as young as we are, if we can start fast, I think that can carry over. Confidence is a factor in any sport, and when you have a lot of good, young athletes who start believing, look out.

Of course, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is going to be a direct correlation between our success and the role Randy Moss plays.

The first assignment I gave Charlie Baggett, our receivers coach, was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results. One thing that popped up in Charlie's eyes was that when we threw the ball in Randy's direction 40 percent of the time, we won 80 percent of those games. We only did that in five games, but we won four of those five. So we're going to shoot for that ratio with Randy this season.

We're going to have a lot of different ways for Randy to touch the ball. About all he used to run were vertical and deep in routes. But he's going to catch a lot more of those short, intermediate passes--those dodge routes that used to be Cris Carter's forte. You're going to see him run comebacks, go vertical, come out of the backfield on little swing routes and even run reverses.

As far as how good of a coach he was- I am not contending he was a great coach, just that he was better than Childress. That may not be saying much.

As far as being a laughing stock with Tice and Red, I cannot guess what the team might have looked like with Childress coaching when Red was there. He has been given great tools and still has problems with in game decisions. Put him into the same situation Tice was in and I believe he would have imploded.

I was fine with Wilf getting rid of Tice because I do not believe he would have coached us to the SB. That does not change the fact that I do not believe we took a step ahead with his replacement.



+1

I agree bro

NodakPaul
08-08-2009, 02:21 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:



While the Randy Ratio gets all of the attention, this came out of the same interview.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_26_226/ai_95676806/pg_3/


X's and O's

We're going back to a two-tight end offense, sort of the Joe Gibbs offense, which we ran here in the early '90s. I think in a two-tight end offense you can be more balanced in your formations and you pose more problems for the defense. It's hard for the defense to decide where your strength is. Secondly, you can run the ball better out of two-tight end formations; that's a proven fact. Thirdly, I don't particularly like the "T" as a bread-and-butter formation.

Now, if you can read that and determine that he didn't change anything I would be interested in the metrics used to make the case. ;D

Back to the randy ratio- It is common on here to bash Tice for somehow revealing to his opponents what our game plan was going to be. Here is the complete unedited statement. I don't see anything tipping of a defensive coordinator. Instead, I see a coach who understands that you cannot use the same player in the same way and still be successful in this league. Something I have no indication Childress understands.



The Randy ratio

My vision this year is that we'll win more than we lose. I believe we can get to the playoffs. Being as young as we are, if we can start fast, I think that can carry over. Confidence is a factor in any sport, and when you have a lot of good, young athletes who start believing, look out.

Of course, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is going to be a direct correlation between our success and the role Randy Moss plays.

The first assignment I gave Charlie Baggett, our receivers coach, was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results. One thing that popped up in Charlie's eyes was that when we threw the ball in Randy's direction 40 percent of the time, we won 80 percent of those games. We only did that in five games, but we won four of those five. So we're going to shoot for that ratio with Randy this season.

We're going to have a lot of different ways for Randy to touch the ball. About all he used to run were vertical and deep in routes. But he's going to catch a lot more of those short, intermediate passes--those dodge routes that used to be Cris Carter's forte. You're going to see him run comebacks, go vertical, come out of the backfield on little swing routes and even run reverses.

As far as how good of a coach he was- I am not contending he was a great coach, just that he was better than Childress. That may not be saying much.

As far as being a laughing stock with Tice and Red, I cannot guess what the team might have looked like with Childress coaching when Red was there. He has been given great tools and still has problems with in game decisions. Put him into the same situation Tice was in and I believe he would have imploded.

I was fine with Wilf getting rid of Tice because I do not believe he would have coached us to the SB. That does not change the fact that I do not believe we took a step ahead with his replacement.


The 2 TE set that was run in the early 90's.
Specifically in 92 and 93 when Tice was a player on the Vikings.
Guess who was the head coach those years?
Yup, Green. ;)

The Randy Ratio wasn't bashed because it revealed anything to opposing defenses.
It is bashed because it was just plain stupid.
Tice based his plan off from a correlational analysis of 5 games, and used it to imply causation.
That is as bad as people saying "When we run more than pass, we win".
It doesn't take into account that when you run more than pass, you are usually ahead.
They won 4 out of 5 games that they put the ball in Randy's hands, but that doesn't take into account the defenses they faces, the offenses they faced, the field conditions, injuries to Randy or the running backs or other WRs, etc.
It was simply a horribly stupid metric to use in support of anything, and the fact that the first assignment that he gave Baggest was was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results shows that this wasn't just some flippant remark about putting the ball in the hands of his best player.
It was an honest to God plan of his to put the ball in Randy's hands on 40% of the plays.
Where the hell did he learn his coaching skills? Madden?
Because that is about the only place that would have ever worked.
Childress, thank God, is smart enough not to fall for something like that.

As far as taking a step ahead with Childress, I feel that we did.
That doesn't mean that I think he is a great coach, or even the coach of the future, but it amazes me that anyone would consider Tice a better head coach.
The only reason that Tice was ever a head coach to begin with is because he could be had for the absolute minimum.
He was a big dopey lovable guy, but Mike Tice was in no way shape or form a head coach.
Childress at least bears some semblance of one, and so far year - big budget or not - we have gotten better every year with Childress.
Each year his criticisms have gotten fewer, meaning that he actually learns each year too.
I'll take Childress over Tice any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Purple Floyd
08-08-2009, 02:38 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:



The 2 TE set that was run in the early 90's.
Specifically in 92 and 93 when Tice was a player on the Vikings.
Guess who was the head coach those years?
Yup, Green. ;)

But your contention was that he changed nothing. The offense did evolve under Green during the decade he was there and what they started out with was far different than what they ended with as far as schemes go. If your analysis is correct, then Childress didn't change anything either because he is running the WCO with some segments of the gibbs style 2 TE set and that is what we are running now. So in essence the offense hasn't changed in 40 years since Burn, Grant, Green, Tice and Childress all ran the WCO.[/quote]


"NodakPaul" wrote:




The Randy Ratio wasn't bashed because it revealed anything to opposing defenses.
It is bashed because it was just plain stupid.
Tice based his plan off from a correlational analysis of 5 games, and used it to imply causation.
That is as bad as people saying "When we run more than pass, we win".
It doesn't take into account that when you run more than pass, you are usually ahead.
They won 4 out of 5 games that they put the ball in Randy's hands, but that doesn't take into account the defenses they faces, the offenses they faced, the field conditions, injuries to Randy or the running backs or other WRs, etc.
It was simply a horribly stupid metric to use in support of anything, and the fact that the first assignment that he gave Baggest was was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results shows that this wasn't just some flippant remark about putting the ball in the hands of his best player.
It was an honest to God plan of his to put the ball in Randy's hands on 40% of the plays.
Where the hell did he learn his coaching skills? Madden?
Because that is about the only place that would have ever worked.
Childress, thank God, is smart enough not to fall for something like that.

Yes, Childress is so much better because punting when you are behind and have less than 3 minutes left gives you the best chance to win. Taking out AP on passing downs never tells anyone that a pass is coming, calling a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 5 is always a good call and standing in front of the media and telling the reporters that "This is a KAO if executed properly" when you are the one responsible for it's execution all show that Childress has is clearly superior.

"NodakPaul" wrote:


As far as taking a step ahead with Childress, I feel that we did.
That doesn't mean that I think he is a great coach, or even the coach of the future, but it amazes me that anyone would consider Tice a better head coach.
The only reason that Tice was ever a head coach to begin with is because he could be had for the absolute minimum.
He was a big dopey lovable guy, but Mike Tice was in no way shape or form a head coach.
Childress at least bears some semblance of one, and so far year - big budget or not - we have gotten better every year with Childress.
Each year his criticisms have gotten fewer, meaning that he actually learns each year too.
I'll take Childress over Tice any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.


The organization committed to spending money on players, facilities and staff in order to build a better team. Childress, if anything, has been a hindrance to that process and if Ziggy had not married the first chick he speed dated we may well have been much farther along in terms of record.

VikingMike
08-08-2009, 02:40 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:



While the Randy Ratio gets all of the attention, this came out of the same interview.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_26_226/ai_95676806/pg_3/


X's and O's

We're going back to a two-tight end offense, sort of the Joe Gibbs offense, which we ran here in the early '90s. I think in a two-tight end offense you can be more balanced in your formations and you pose more problems for the defense. It's hard for the defense to decide where your strength is. Secondly, you can run the ball better out of two-tight end formations; that's a proven fact. Thirdly, I don't particularly like the "T" as a bread-and-butter formation.

Now, if you can read that and determine that he didn't change anything I would be interested in the metrics used to make the case. ;D

Back to the randy ratio- It is common on here to bash Tice for somehow revealing to his opponents what our game plan was going to be. Here is the complete unedited statement. I don't see anything tipping of a defensive coordinator. Instead, I see a coach who understands that you cannot use the same player in the same way and still be successful in this league. Something I have no indication Childress understands.



The Randy ratio

My vision this year is that we'll win more than we lose. I believe we can get to the playoffs. Being as young as we are, if we can start fast, I think that can carry over. Confidence is a factor in any sport, and when you have a lot of good, young athletes who start believing, look out.

Of course, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is going to be a direct correlation between our success and the role Randy Moss plays.

The first assignment I gave Charlie Baggett, our receivers coach, was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results. One thing that popped up in Charlie's eyes was that when we threw the ball in Randy's direction 40 percent of the time, we won 80 percent of those games. We only did that in five games, but we won four of those five. So we're going to shoot for that ratio with Randy this season.

We're going to have a lot of different ways for Randy to touch the ball. About all he used to run were vertical and deep in routes. But he's going to catch a lot more of those short, intermediate passes--those dodge routes that used to be Cris Carter's forte. You're going to see him run comebacks, go vertical, come out of the backfield on little swing routes and even run reverses.

As far as how good of a coach he was- I am not contending he was a great coach, just that he was better than Childress. That may not be saying much.

As far as being a laughing stock with Tice and Red, I cannot guess what the team might have looked like with Childress coaching when Red was there. He has been given great tools and still has problems with in game decisions. Put him into the same situation Tice was in and I believe he would have imploded.

I was fine with Wilf getting rid of Tice because I do not believe he would have coached us to the SB. That does not change the fact that I do not believe we took a step ahead with his replacement.


The 2 TE set that was run in the early 90's.
Specifically in 92 and 93 when Tice was a player on the Vikings.
Guess who was the head coach those years?
Yup, Green. ;)

The Randy Ratio wasn't bashed because it revealed anything to opposing defenses.
It is bashed because it was just plain stupid.
Tice based his plan off from a correlational analysis of 5 games, and used it to imply causation.
That is as bad as people saying "When we run more than pass, we win".
It doesn't take into account that when you run more than pass, you are usually ahead.
They won 4 out of 5 games that they put the ball in Randy's hands, but that doesn't take into account the defenses they faces, the offenses they faced, the field conditions, injuries to Randy or the running backs or other WRs, etc.
It was simply a horribly stupid metric to use in support of anything, and the fact that the first assignment that he gave Baggest was was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results shows that this wasn't just some flippant remark about putting the ball in the hands of his best player.
It was an honest to God plan of his to put the ball in Randy's hands on 40% of the plays.
Where the hell did he learn his coaching skills? Madden?
Because that is about the only place that would have ever worked.
Childress, thank God, is smart enough not to fall for something like that.

As far as taking a step ahead with Childress, I feel that we did.
That doesn't mean that I think he is a great coach, or even the coach of the future, but it amazes me that anyone would consider Tice a better head coach.
The only reason that Tice was ever a head coach to begin with is because he could be had for the absolute minimum.
He was a big dopey lovable guy, but Mike Tice was in no way shape or form a head coach.
Childress at least bears some semblance of one, and so far year - big budget or not - we have gotten better every year with Childress.
Each year his criticisms have gotten fewer, meaning that he actually learns each year too.
I'll take Childress over Tice any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.



Tice was a big likable meathead. Childress, hmmm...I really do want us to succeed with him as coach. I like him as a person, he's a good family man, has instilled discipline and accountability for players' personal actions..I just don't believe he's got what it takes to be a top NFL HC. He hasn't resolved the most important single position for any SB-winning team. His game management leaves much to be desired. (I know this is a learning experience, but it should be grasped after 1, maybe 2 seasons, no more.) I understand the improvement in W-L record, but this is the key year, a make-or-break year in many ways for him and the team. I fully expect us, barring unforeseen injuries, to go deep into the playoffs, in spite of him.

Purple Floyd
08-08-2009, 02:50 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:



While the Randy Ratio gets all of the attention, this came out of the same interview.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_26_226/ai_95676806/pg_3/


X's and O's

We're going back to a two-tight end offense, sort of the Joe Gibbs offense, which we ran here in the early '90s. I think in a two-tight end offense you can be more balanced in your formations and you pose more problems for the defense. It's hard for the defense to decide where your strength is. Secondly, you can run the ball better out of two-tight end formations; that's a proven fact. Thirdly, I don't particularly like the "T" as a bread-and-butter formation.

Now, if you can read that and determine that he didn't change anything I would be interested in the metrics used to make the case. ;D

Back to the randy ratio- It is common on here to bash Tice for somehow revealing to his opponents what our game plan was going to be. Here is the complete unedited statement. I don't see anything tipping of a defensive coordinator. Instead, I see a coach who understands that you cannot use the same player in the same way and still be successful in this league. Something I have no indication Childress understands.



The Randy ratio

My vision this year is that we'll win more than we lose. I believe we can get to the playoffs. Being as young as we are, if we can start fast, I think that can carry over. Confidence is a factor in any sport, and when you have a lot of good, young athletes who start believing, look out.

Of course, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is going to be a direct correlation between our success and the role Randy Moss plays.

The first assignment I gave Charlie Baggett, our receivers coach, was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results. One thing that popped up in Charlie's eyes was that when we threw the ball in Randy's direction 40 percent of the time, we won 80 percent of those games. We only did that in five games, but we won four of those five. So we're going to shoot for that ratio with Randy this season.

We're going to have a lot of different ways for Randy to touch the ball. About all he used to run were vertical and deep in routes. But he's going to catch a lot more of those short, intermediate passes--those dodge routes that used to be Cris Carter's forte. You're going to see him run comebacks, go vertical, come out of the backfield on little swing routes and even run reverses.

As far as how good of a coach he was- I am not contending he was a great coach, just that he was better than Childress. That may not be saying much.

As far as being a laughing stock with Tice and Red, I cannot guess what the team might have looked like with Childress coaching when Red was there. He has been given great tools and still has problems with in game decisions. Put him into the same situation Tice was in and I believe he would have imploded.

I was fine with Wilf getting rid of Tice because I do not believe he would have coached us to the SB. That does not change the fact that I do not believe we took a step ahead with his replacement.


The 2 TE set that was run in the early 90's.
Specifically in 92 and 93 when Tice was a player on the Vikings.
Guess who was the head coach those years?
Yup, Green. ;)

The Randy Ratio wasn't bashed because it revealed anything to opposing defenses.
It is bashed because it was just plain stupid.
Tice based his plan off from a correlational analysis of 5 games, and used it to imply causation.
That is as bad as people saying "When we run more than pass, we win".
It doesn't take into account that when you run more than pass, you are usually ahead.
They won 4 out of 5 games that they put the ball in Randy's hands, but that doesn't take into account the defenses they faces, the offenses they faced, the field conditions, injuries to Randy or the running backs or other WRs, etc.
It was simply a horribly stupid metric to use in support of anything, and the fact that the first assignment that he gave Baggest was was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results shows that this wasn't just some flippant remark about putting the ball in the hands of his best player.
It was an honest to God plan of his to put the ball in Randy's hands on 40% of the plays.
Where the hell did he learn his coaching skills? Madden?
Because that is about the only place that would have ever worked.
Childress, thank God, is smart enough not to fall for something like that.

As far as taking a step ahead with Childress, I feel that we did.
That doesn't mean that I think he is a great coach, or even the coach of the future, but it amazes me that anyone would consider Tice a better head coach.
The only reason that Tice was ever a head coach to begin with is because he could be had for the absolute minimum.
He was a big dopey lovable guy, but Mike Tice was in no way shape or form a head coach.
Childress at least bears some semblance of one, and so far year - big budget or not - we have gotten better every year with Childress.
Each year his criticisms have gotten fewer, meaning that he actually learns each year too.
I'll take Childress over Tice any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.


What I will say about Childress in his defense is that he is a much better evaluator of talent. I do feel that he is more mature in his development and that he does seem to have a very good organizational skill set. It seems to me, however, that he is a better long term planner and that those skills may make him a better candidate for a GM. His ability to adjust on the fly under pressure during a game seems to be his Achilles heel and that is what a great coach needs to have. I feel that Denny Green was similar to that.

What I feel may be the best thing the Vikings can do is to make Childress a GM and let him take care of the personnel and the long term planning and then bring in a guy to coach the basics and to run the team at game time who has a skill set for the position.

gagarr
08-08-2009, 03:35 PM
Is the success Chilly has had a matter of his skills as a coach or luck?

He got lucky with a owner willing to shell out big bucks.
Look at the FA signings
Hutch, became the highest paid guard in NFL history.
J Allen, at the time had the richest contract for a defensive player in NFL history
BB, C Taylor, Wade, Shank, M Williams
Look at the contract extensions for McKinnie and Winfield.

There are few NFL owners that are willing to put out this time of $$$, especially when the franchise has the lowest revenue in the NFL. Snyder and J Jones might but their franchises are the top 2 in value.

I'm not sure how much Chilly had to do with drafting AD, but there was noone in the 2007 draft that could have helped the Vikings more.
I consider the Vikes lucky that AD dropped and that the Vikes didn't take someone else like Marshawn Lynch.


As for replacements

Cowher or Shanahan would be front runners.

IMO Billick should also get serious consideration.

Before you all go pooh, just look at what Billick did with his first HC job.
Billick, took over a Ravens team that was 17-30-1 the previous 3 seasons and Ravens were 30-18 including 5-1 post season and a SB in Billick's first 3 season.
AND he did it with crappy QB's too.
PLEASE don't mention the D did it ALL, because before Billick, the Ravens D was ranked 24th, 30th and 25th the previous 3 seasons!
So he must have done something, if only getting a great D Coordinator.
Just like Green had Dungy and Billick during his best years.

I don't know why the Ravens fired Billick given they went 13-3 in 2006 and in 2007 they went 5-11, but they lost Jamal Lewis, pro bowl LB Adalius Thomas, and All Pro FB Ovie Mughelli to FA.
And they had huge QB problems McNair was in and out with injuries playing only 6 games then retired.
He replaced by Kyle Boller for 8 games, who was replaced by Troy Smith for 2 games.

I imagine Billick will get a job next year and it will be interesting how he will do.

NodakPaul
08-08-2009, 04:06 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:



The 2 TE set that was run in the early 90's.
Specifically in 92 and 93 when Tice was a player on the Vikings.
Guess who was the head coach those years?
Yup, Green. ;)

But your contention was that he changed nothing. The offense did evolve under Green during the decade he was there and what they started out with was far different than what they ended with as far as schemes go. If your analysis is correct, then Childress didn't change anything either because he is running the WCO with some segments of the gibbs style 2 TE set and that is what we are running now. So in essence the offense hasn't changed in 40 years since Burn, Grant, Green, Tice and Childress all ran the WCO.


"NodakPaul" wrote:




The Randy Ratio wasn't bashed because it revealed anything to opposing defenses.
It is bashed because it was just plain stupid.
Tice based his plan off from a correlational analysis of 5 games, and used it to imply causation.
That is as bad as people saying "When we run more than pass, we win".
It doesn't take into account that when you run more than pass, you are usually ahead.
They won 4 out of 5 games that they put the ball in Randy's hands, but that doesn't take into account the defenses they faces, the offenses they faced, the field conditions, injuries to Randy or the running backs or other WRs, etc.
It was simply a horribly stupid metric to use in support of anything, and the fact that the first assignment that he gave Baggest was was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results shows that this wasn't just some flippant remark about putting the ball in the hands of his best player.
It was an honest to God plan of his to put the ball in Randy's hands on 40% of the plays.
Where the hell did he learn his coaching skills? Madden?
Because that is about the only place that would have ever worked.
Childress, thank God, is smart enough not to fall for something like that.

Yes, Childress is so much better because punting when you are behind and have less than 3 minutes left gives you the best chance to win. Taking out AP on passing downs never tells anyone that a pass is coming, calling a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 5 is always a good call and standing in front of the media and telling the reporters that "This is a KAO if executed properly" when you are the one responsible for it's execution all show that Childress has is clearly superior.

"NodakPaul" wrote:


As far as taking a step ahead with Childress, I feel that we did.
That doesn't mean that I think he is a great coach, or even the coach of the future, but it amazes me that anyone would consider Tice a better head coach.
The only reason that Tice was ever a head coach to begin with is because he could be had for the absolute minimum.
He was a big dopey lovable guy, but Mike Tice was in no way shape or form a head coach.
Childress at least bears some semblance of one, and so far year - big budget or not - we have gotten better every year with Childress.
Each year his criticisms have gotten fewer, meaning that he actually learns each year too.
I'll take Childress over Tice any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.


The organization committed to spending money on players, facilities and staff in order to build a better team. Childress, if anything, has been a hindrance to that process and if Ziggy had not married the first chick he speed dated we may well have been much farther along in terms of record.


By saying he changed nothing, I was obviously generalizing.
Yes, Tice changed a few things, but for the most part it was very similar to the offenses he was used to under Green.
Childress came in and implemented an entirely new scheme on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
Installed a WCO that evolved into being a run first WCO (not a common thing) to take advantage of the strengths of his players. This was completely different than his old coach (Ried), who abandons the run too early.
Childress installed a zone blocking scheme. Installed a modified Cover 2.
Every year the schemes have been tweaked and improved to fit the personnel, just as the personnel have been tweaked and improved to fit the scheme.
And every year the team has gotten significantly better.
Tice did not do, nor could he do, any of that.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are better coaches out there than Childress.
But Tice is not one of them.

ItalianStallion
08-08-2009, 04:23 PM
Childress has zero playoff wins in 3 seasons after taking over a 9-7 football team.
Let calm down with the extension talk.
The only reason the team has steadily gotten more wins is because he dismantled the team and took us to 6-10 in his first season anyway.

The second Childress shows he is actually capable of making a good decision with our quarterbacks I'll consider it.
He has FUBAR'ed that position from the day he got here to the present.

Purple Floyd
08-08-2009, 04:25 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Childress has zero playoff wins in 3 seasons after taking over a 9-7 football team.
Let calm down with the extension talk.
The only reason the team has steadily gotten more wins is because he dismantled the team and took us to 6-10 in his first season anyway.

The second Childress shows he is actually capable of making a good decision with our quarterbacks I'll consider it.
He has FUBAR'ed that position from the day he got here to the present.


+1

gagarr
08-08-2009, 05:50 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:



The 2 TE set that was run in the early 90's.
Specifically in 92 and 93 when Tice was a player on the Vikings.
Guess who was the head coach those years?
Yup, Green. ;)

But your contention was that he changed nothing. The offense did evolve under Green during the decade he was there and what they started out with was far different than what they ended with as far as schemes go. If your analysis is correct, then Childress didn't change anything either because he is running the WCO with some segments of the gibbs style 2 TE set and that is what we are running now. So in essence the offense hasn't changed in 40 years since Burn, Grant, Green, Tice and Childress all ran the WCO.


"NodakPaul" wrote:




The Randy Ratio wasn't bashed because it revealed anything to opposing defenses.
It is bashed because it was just plain stupid.
Tice based his plan off from a correlational analysis of 5 games, and used it to imply causation.
That is as bad as people saying "When we run more than pass, we win".
It doesn't take into account that when you run more than pass, you are usually ahead.
They won 4 out of 5 games that they put the ball in Randy's hands, but that doesn't take into account the defenses they faces, the offenses they faced, the field conditions, injuries to Randy or the running backs or other WRs, etc.
It was simply a horribly stupid metric to use in support of anything, and the fact that the first assignment that he gave Baggest was was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results shows that this wasn't just some flippant remark about putting the ball in the hands of his best player.
It was an honest to God plan of his to put the ball in Randy's hands on 40% of the plays.
Where the hell did he learn his coaching skills? Madden?
Because that is about the only place that would have ever worked.
Childress, thank God, is smart enough not to fall for something like that.

Yes, Childress is so much better because punting when you are behind and have less than 3 minutes left gives you the best chance to win. Taking out AP on passing downs never tells anyone that a pass is coming, calling a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 5 is always a good call and standing in front of the media and telling the reporters that "This is a KAO if executed properly" when you are the one responsible for it's execution all show that Childress has is clearly superior.

"NodakPaul" wrote:


As far as taking a step ahead with Childress, I feel that we did.
That doesn't mean that I think he is a great coach, or even the coach of the future, but it amazes me that anyone would consider Tice a better head coach.
The only reason that Tice was ever a head coach to begin with is because he could be had for the absolute minimum.
He was a big dopey lovable guy, but Mike Tice was in no way shape or form a head coach.
Childress at least bears some semblance of one, and so far year - big budget or not - we have gotten better every year with Childress.
Each year his criticisms have gotten fewer, meaning that he actually learns each year too.
I'll take Childress over Tice any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.


The organization committed to spending money on players, facilities and staff in order to build a better team. Childress, if anything, has been a hindrance to that process and if Ziggy had not married the first chick he speed dated we may well have been much farther along in terms of record.


By saying he changed nothing, I was obviously generalizing.
Yes, Tice changed a few things, but for the most part it was very similar to the offenses he was used to under Green.
Childress came in and implemented an entirely new scheme on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
Installed a WCO that evolved into being a run first WCO (not a common thing) to take advantage of the strengths of his players. This was completely different than his old coach (Ried), who abandons the run too early.
Childress installed a zone blocking scheme. Installed a modified Cover 2.
Every year the schemes have been tweaked and improved to fit the personnel, just as the personnel have been tweaked and improved to fit the scheme.
And every year the team has gotten significantly better.
Tice did not do, nor could he do, any of that.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are better coaches out there than Childress.
But Tice is not one of them.


Green's system for the most part was successful, so why change it if the players and he knows it.
It would be dumb to do different.
Also, Tice was hamstrung from the beginning, by Red.
No $$$ for FA players or coaches, especially when the HC is making less than several coordinators from other teams.


Childresses offense became a "run first" because he had NO CHOICE.
QB's and receivers all sucked.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that.
Plus, he was allowed to sign CT and dump Bennett.

Chilly didn't know the Green/Tice systems, so it wasn't hard for him to use his instead.
Just like if Chilly replaced Reid instead he wouldn't have changed Reids system.
Since Chilly and the players knew Reids system and it's been successful, he would be a idiot to change it much.

From what I know about zone blocking, the Vikes personnel don't line up much, and IMO they would be better off with Man.
Loadholt definitely doesn't fit a ZB scheme, he would be better off attacking, he could probably pancake the DE and scare the LB.

As for the modified Cover 2 he installed, it had the Vikes DEAD LAST in pass defence in 2006 and 2007, and only after:
* Acquiring Jarad Allen, the #1 pass rusher, by trading a 1st and two 3rds, plus paying him more than any defensive player in NFL history
* Using their first pick,
2nd round, to draft a safety, Tyrell.
* Signing a experienced safety, M Williams.
After all that, the Vikes managed #18 in pass defense.
Seems like the "modified Cover 2" sucks.


Tice didn't have a fair chance to show whether he could be a good HC.
I don't think he should have been given the chance, but Red was trying to save $$$.


Here were the new rookie NFL coaches in 2002: John Fox, Bill Callahan,
Steve Spurrier
New vet coaches: Marty Schottenheimer, Jon Gruden, Dom Capers, Tony Dungy

Only Spurrier and Capers sucked!
What would the Vikings be today if Dungy was coach.

PackSux!
08-09-2009, 01:09 PM
"gagarr" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:



The 2 TE set that was run in the early 90's.
Specifically in 92 and 93 when Tice was a player on the Vikings.
Guess who was the head coach those years?
Yup, Green. ;)

But your contention was that he changed nothing. The offense did evolve under Green during the decade he was there and what they started out with was far different than what they ended with as far as schemes go. If your analysis is correct, then Childress didn't change anything either because he is running the WCO with some segments of the gibbs style 2 TE set and that is what we are running now. So in essence the offense hasn't changed in 40 years since Burn, Grant, Green, Tice and Childress all ran the WCO.


"NodakPaul" wrote:




The Randy Ratio wasn't bashed because it revealed anything to opposing defenses.
It is bashed because it was just plain stupid.
Tice based his plan off from a correlational analysis of 5 games, and used it to imply causation.
That is as bad as people saying "When we run more than pass, we win".
It doesn't take into account that when you run more than pass, you are usually ahead.
They won 4 out of 5 games that they put the ball in Randy's hands, but that doesn't take into account the defenses they faces, the offenses they faced, the field conditions, injuries to Randy or the running backs or other WRs, etc.
It was simply a horribly stupid metric to use in support of anything, and the fact that the first assignment that he gave Baggest was was to count every ball thrown in Randy's direction in a game last year and look at the results shows that this wasn't just some flippant remark about putting the ball in the hands of his best player.
It was an honest to God plan of his to put the ball in Randy's hands on 40% of the plays.
Where the hell did he learn his coaching skills? Madden?
Because that is about the only place that would have ever worked.
Childress, thank God, is smart enough not to fall for something like that.

Yes, Childress is so much better because punting when you are behind and have less than 3 minutes left gives you the best chance to win. Taking out AP on passing downs never tells anyone that a pass is coming, calling a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 5 is always a good call and standing in front of the media and telling the reporters that "This is a KAO if executed properly" when you are the one responsible for it's execution all show that Childress has is clearly superior.

"NodakPaul" wrote:


As far as taking a step ahead with Childress, I feel that we did.
That doesn't mean that I think he is a great coach, or even the coach of the future, but it amazes me that anyone would consider Tice a better head coach.
The only reason that Tice was ever a head coach to begin with is because he could be had for the absolute minimum.
He was a big dopey lovable guy, but Mike Tice was in no way shape or form a head coach.
Childress at least bears some semblance of one, and so far year - big budget or not - we have gotten better every year with Childress.
Each year his criticisms have gotten fewer, meaning that he actually learns each year too.
I'll take Childress over Tice any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.


The organization committed to spending money on players, facilities and staff in order to build a better team. Childress, if anything, has been a hindrance to that process and if Ziggy had not married the first chick he speed dated we may well have been much farther along in terms of record.


By saying he changed nothing, I was obviously generalizing.
Yes, Tice changed a few things, but for the most part it was very similar to the offenses he was used to under Green.
Childress came in and implemented an entirely new scheme on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
Installed a WCO that evolved into being a run first WCO (not a common thing) to take advantage of the strengths of his players. This was completely different than his old coach (Ried), who abandons the run too early.
Childress installed a zone blocking scheme. Installed a modified Cover 2.
Every year the schemes have been tweaked and improved to fit the personnel, just as the personnel have been tweaked and improved to fit the scheme.
And every year the team has gotten significantly better.
Tice did not do, nor could he do, any of that.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are better coaches out there than Childress.
But Tice is not one of them.


Green's system for the most part was successful, so why change it if the players and he knows it.
It would be dumb to do different.
Also, Tice was hamstrung from the beginning, by Red.
No $$$ for FA players or coaches, especially when the HC is making less than several coordinators from other teams.


Childresses offense became a "run first" because he had NO CHOICE.
QB's and receivers all sucked.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that.
Plus, he was allowed to sign CT and dump Bennett.

Chilly didn't know the Green/Tice systems, so it wasn't hard for him to use his instead.
Just like if Chilly replaced Reid instead he wouldn't have changed Reids system.
Since Chilly and the players knew Reids system and it's been successful, he would be a idiot to change it much.

From what I know about zone blocking, the Vikes personnel don't line up much, and IMO they would be better off with Man.
Loadholt definitely doesn't fit a ZB scheme, he would be better off attacking, he could probably pancake the DE and scare the LB.

As for the modified Cover 2 he installed, it had the Vikes DEAD LAST in pass defence in 2006 and 2007, and only after:
* Acquiring Jarad Allen, the #1 pass rusher, by trading a 1st and two 3rds, plus paying him more than any defensive player in NFL history
* Using their first pick,
2nd round, to draft a safety, Tyrell.
* Signing a experienced safety, M Williams.
After all that, the Vikes managed #18 in pass defense.
Seems like the "modified Cover 2" sucks.


Tice didn't have a fair chance to show whether he could be a good HC.
I don't think he should have been given the chance, but Red was trying to save $$$.


Here were the new rookie NFL coaches in 2002: John Fox, Bill Callahan,
Steve Spurrier
New vet coaches: Marty Schottenheimer, Jon Gruden, Dom Capers, Tony Dungy

Only Spurrier and Capers sucked!
What would the Vikings be today if Dungy was coach.


18th against the pass and 1st against the run.
yea our system really sucks.
::)

snowinapril
08-09-2009, 01:14 PM
How does this make some of you feel?
I think it is great we got him after the Colts won the Super Bowl.
Frazier staying give Chilly some continuity to build on, Tomlin being taken away really could have set us back with out the addition of Frazier

Found the article in this PPO thread:
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=52700.0

Link to article:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-08-08/vikings-glad-have-frazier-back-d-coordinator

Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009 - 7:00 p.m. ET

MANKATO, Minn. -- As far as Jared Allen was concerned, Minnesota Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier was as good as gone.

In two seasons in Minnesota, Tony Dungy's protege helped the Vikings rise to the No. 6 ranking in total defense, all the while exhibiting a quiet authority and eliciting the universal respect that were hallmarks of Dungy's Super Bowl-winning coaching career.

So Allen, the defensive end who had 14 1/2 sacks in his first season in Minnesota, figured Frazier was a shoo-in for one of the open head coaching jobs this offseason. He was a finalist in Denver and St. Louis, and interviewed in Detroit. But all three teams went in different directions, so Frazier is unexpectedly back for a third season with the Vikings.

"As much stuff that I was doing for the Denver press, I thought he was going to Denver," Allen said. "We're glad he's back. I told him for selfish reasons we want to keep him."

Frazier's return is one of the many reasons that the veteran Vikings defense is wrapped in a soothing blanket of continuity as the season approaches. All 11 starters this season started at least seven games last year, with safety Darren Sharper's move to New Orleans the only significant loss to the group.

Frazier arrived in Minnesota in 2007 after winning the Super Bowl as an assistant with Indianapolis. He replaced Mike Tomlin, who parlayed one season as the Vikings defensive coordinator into the coveted job as head coach in Pittsburgh.


If Frazier was a candidate this past season, he will be again.
How will this affect the head coaching position? Will some of you that don't want Chilly, be willing to take a chance on this guy.
The one thing he might do as a defensive minded HC, is hire someone to run this offense and really take command of the O.

Purple Floyd
08-09-2009, 03:37 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:



How does this make some of you feel?
I think it is great we got him after the Colts won the Super Bowl.
Frazier staying give Chilly some continuity to build on, Tomlin being taken away really could have set us back with out the addition of Frazier

Found the article in this PPO thread:
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=52700.0

Link to article:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-08-08/vikings-glad-have-frazier-back-d-coordinator

Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009 - 7:00 p.m. ET

MANKATO, Minn. -- As far as Jared Allen was concerned, Minnesota Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier was as good as gone.

In two seasons in Minnesota, Tony Dungy's protege helped the Vikings rise to the No. 6 ranking in total defense, all the while exhibiting a quiet authority and eliciting the universal respect that were hallmarks of Dungy's Super Bowl-winning coaching career.

So Allen, the defensive end who had 14 1/2 sacks in his first season in Minnesota, figured Frazier was a shoo-in for one of the open head coaching jobs this offseason. He was a finalist in Denver and St. Louis, and interviewed in Detroit. But all three teams went in different directions, so Frazier is unexpectedly back for a third season with the Vikings.

"As much stuff that I was doing for the Denver press, I thought he was going to Denver," Allen said. "We're glad he's back. I told him for selfish reasons we want to keep him."

Frazier's return is one of the many reasons that the veteran Vikings defense is wrapped in a soothing blanket of continuity as the season approaches. All 11 starters this season started at least seven games last year, with safety Darren Sharper's move to New Orleans the only significant loss to the group.

Frazier arrived in Minnesota in 2007 after winning the Super Bowl as an assistant with Indianapolis. He replaced Mike Tomlin, who parlayed one season as the Vikings defensive coordinator into the coveted job as head coach in Pittsburgh.


If Frazier was a candidate this past season, he will be again.
How will this affect the head coaching position? Will some of you that don't want Chilly, be willing to take a chance on this guy.
The one thing he might do as a defensive minded HC, is hire someone to run this offense and really take command of the O.


As I have stated, I would like to see Wilf hire a bona fide GM to run the team and let that GM decide who should coach the team, establish what system we will run and get the players that fit that system. I would be fine with that person being Childress. I would also not mind Denny Green as a GM. Dungy would be my firdt choice.

NodakPaul
08-10-2009, 09:33 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:



How does this make some of you feel?
I think it is great we got him after the Colts won the Super Bowl.
Frazier staying give Chilly some continuity to build on, Tomlin being taken away really could have set us back with out the addition of Frazier

Found the article in this PPO thread:
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=52700.0

Link to article:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-08-08/vikings-glad-have-frazier-back-d-coordinator

Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009 - 7:00 p.m. ET

MANKATO, Minn. -- As far as Jared Allen was concerned, Minnesota Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier was as good as gone.

In two seasons in Minnesota, Tony Dungy's protege helped the Vikings rise to the No. 6 ranking in total defense, all the while exhibiting a quiet authority and eliciting the universal respect that were hallmarks of Dungy's Super Bowl-winning coaching career.

So Allen, the defensive end who had 14 1/2 sacks in his first season in Minnesota, figured Frazier was a shoo-in for one of the open head coaching jobs this offseason. He was a finalist in Denver and St. Louis, and interviewed in Detroit. But all three teams went in different directions, so Frazier is unexpectedly back for a third season with the Vikings.

"As much stuff that I was doing for the Denver press, I thought he was going to Denver," Allen said. "We're glad he's back. I told him for selfish reasons we want to keep him."

Frazier's return is one of the many reasons that the veteran Vikings defense is wrapped in a soothing blanket of continuity as the season approaches. All 11 starters this season started at least seven games last year, with safety Darren Sharper's move to New Orleans the only significant loss to the group.

Frazier arrived in Minnesota in 2007 after winning the Super Bowl as an assistant with Indianapolis. He replaced Mike Tomlin, who parlayed one season as the Vikings defensive coordinator into the coveted job as head coach in Pittsburgh.


If Frazier was a candidate this past season, he will be again.
How will this affect the head coaching position? Will some of you that don't want Chilly, be willing to take a chance on this guy.
The one thing he might do as a defensive minded HC, is hire someone to run this offense and really take command of the O.


As I have stated, I would like to see Wilf hire a bona fide GM to run the team and let that GM decide who should coach the team, establish what system we will run and get the players that fit that system. I would be fine with that person being Childress. I would also not mind Denny Green as a GM. Dungy would be my firdt choice.




I would be OK with all of those options at GM as well.

jargomcfargo
08-10-2009, 10:32 AM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:



How does this make some of you feel?
I think it is great we got him after the Colts won the Super Bowl.
Frazier staying give Chilly some continuity to build on, Tomlin being taken away really could have set us back with out the addition of Frazier

Found the article in this PPO thread:
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=52700.0

Link to article:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-08-08/vikings-glad-have-frazier-back-d-coordinator

Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009 - 7:00 p.m. ET

MANKATO, Minn. -- As far as Jared Allen was concerned, Minnesota Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier was as good as gone.

In two seasons in Minnesota, Tony Dungy's protege helped the Vikings rise to the No. 6 ranking in total defense, all the while exhibiting a quiet authority and eliciting the universal respect that were hallmarks of Dungy's Super Bowl-winning coaching career.

So Allen, the defensive end who had 14 1/2 sacks in his first season in Minnesota, figured Frazier was a shoo-in for one of the open head coaching jobs this offseason. He was a finalist in Denver and St. Louis, and interviewed in Detroit. But all three teams went in different directions, so Frazier is unexpectedly back for a third season with the Vikings.

"As much stuff that I was doing for the Denver press, I thought he was going to Denver," Allen said. "We're glad he's back. I told him for selfish reasons we want to keep him."

Frazier's return is one of the many reasons that the veteran Vikings defense is wrapped in a soothing blanket of continuity as the season approaches. All 11 starters this season started at least seven games last year, with safety Darren Sharper's move to New Orleans the only significant loss to the group.

Frazier arrived in Minnesota in 2007 after winning the Super Bowl as an assistant with Indianapolis. He replaced Mike Tomlin, who parlayed one season as the Vikings defensive coordinator into the coveted job as head coach in Pittsburgh.


If Frazier was a candidate this past season, he will be again.
How will this affect the head coaching position? Will some of you that don't want Chilly, be willing to take a chance on this guy.
The one thing he might do as a defensive minded HC, is hire someone to run this offense and really take command of the O.


As I have stated, I would like to see Wilf hire a bona fide GM to run the team and let that GM decide who should coach the team, establish what system we will run and get the players that fit that system. I would be fine with that person being Childress. I would also not mind Denny Green as a GM. Dungy would be my firdt choice.




I would be OK with all of those options at GM as well.


Why do you think Wilf decided against the traditional GM model?
Was it Childress who talked him into it?
Was Foley hired after Childress? I don't remember.

I agree. This team needs a GM.

jessejames09
08-10-2009, 10:48 AM
I actually like Chilly as a judge of character. He's brought nothing but good people to this organization, most of whom work their butt off. He's a psychology major and it shows, Chiller is a great people person in my opinion.

I really dislike the Chiller on Sundays though. Since he's arrived our passing offense has been simply atrocious, and some 3rd down play calls bewilder the simplest of football minds. He has no knack whatsoever for challenging a play. Not to mention, his motivation technique revolves around ancient proverbs for gods sakes. I'd be impressed if he has balls the size of peanuts.

Brad the GM doesn't sound all that bad to me, give him all the control in the world Monday-Saterday, but on Sundays let someone with some nuts run the game.

snowinapril
08-10-2009, 11:06 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Childress has zero playoff wins in 3 seasons after taking over a 9-7 football team.
Let calm down with the extension talk.
The only reason the team has steadily gotten more wins is because he dismantled the team and took us to 6-10 in his first season anyway.

The second Childress shows he is actually capable of making a good decision with our quarterbacks I'll consider it.
He has FUBAR'ed that position from the day he got here to the present.


It is not fair to Chilly that TJ hasn't been able to stay healthy and on the field.

If they can get Harvin to be as dynamic as I think he will be, people will have to give credit where credit is do.

Chilly was the one that made the push for Harvin.
He went down there and was the judge of his character.
He went down there to get Harvin.
The clip on Harvin and the draft that was on here, the one where Speilman and Chilly were in the war room together.
It looked like Speilman's body language was saying that this is your call, he has fallen to our spot, we will take him.
Chilly got on the phone to tell him he was a Viking.
Chilly was about as pumped as the Chilly could let himself.


I am sure the Chiller sees Harvin as his Westbrook but only at WR.
Why would you want a Westbrook RB with AD on the team.
This will be neat to see if they can get the ball to him on a regular basis in space.
When veterans are wowed by a rookie, you have to be happy with the pick.
Now we need to see it translate to the field for us fans to be totally happy.

The argument that Harvin and AD fell into our laps is BS.
Evaluator of talent, is correct, our staff has done there job.
They evaluated and pounced on the guys they thought had talent.

Rehash:

Yes we passed on Brees.
Yes we passed on Pennington.
Yes we lost out on Cutler.
Yes, we were stiffed by Favre.

What are you going to do, curl up in a ball or bury your head in the sand? You are going to prepare your guys to play with whatcha got.
Hindsight, Pennington would have been the most economical. But did Chilly and Speilman want to replace our injury prone QB with a guy that might have issues with his arm/shoulder.

All we are in need of is a guy that can stay on the field and not turn the ball over.
We don't need a HOF QB to be successful in this offense.

snowinapril
08-10-2009, 11:24 AM
The other thing that I have pulled from all the TC info that we have rcvd, read, and watched is the fact that the guys we have are excited, having fun, motivated, wanting to hit and happy to be playing football on this team.
Childress has helped shape this.
He has brought in guys that have good attitudes.
He has brought in guys that have good football minds.
He helped instill a desire to compete.
You have to give him credit there.

I am sure there are guys out there on different teams that aren't excited about putting on the pads this season.
In a couple of those videos, we had guy hitting when they weren't suppose to or just a little harder than they were suppose to under the rules.
These guys are in camp with a desire to compete against one another to make themselves better as a team.

Besides that, we have modest stars on this team.
We don't have any TOs or Ocho Cincos on this team.
We have guys like AD and JA and PW and KW and AW and BB.......... We have blue collar guys like EJ, JK, JA, Shank, and all three of our QBs.
We have a ton of guys that had to work their way up.

ThorSPL
08-10-2009, 11:28 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Childress has zero playoff wins in 3 seasons after taking over a 9-7 football team.
Let calm down with the extension talk.
The only reason the team has steadily gotten more wins is because he dismantled the team and took us to 6-10 in his first season anyway.

The second Childress shows he is actually capable of making a good decision with our quarterbacks I'll consider it.
He has FUBAR'ed that position from the day he got here to the present.


It is not fair to Chilly that TJ hasn't been able to stay healthy and on the field.

If they can get Harvin to be as dynamic as I think he will be, people will have to give credit where credit is do.

Chilly was the one that made the push for Harvin.
He went down there and was the judge of his character.
He went down there to get Harvin.
The clip on Harvin and the draft that was on here, the one where Speilman and Chilly were in the war room together.
It looked like Speilman's body language was saying that this is your call, he has fallen to our spot, we will take him.
Chilly got on the phone to tell him he was a Viking.
Chilly was about as pumped as the Chilly could let himself.


I am sure the Chiller sees Harvin as his Westbrook but only at WR.
Why would you want a Westbrook RB with AD on the team.
This will be neat to see if they can get the ball to him on a regular basis in space.
When veterans are wowed by a rookie, you have to be happy with the pick.
Now we need to see it translate to the field for us fans to be totally happy.

The argument that Harvin and AD fell into our laps is BS.
Evaluator of talent, is correct, our staff has done there job.
They evaluated and pounced on the guys they thought had talent.

Rehash:

Yes we passed on Brees.Yes we passed on Pennington.
Yes we lost out on Cutler.
Yes, we were stiffed by Favre.

What are you going to do, curl up in a ball or bury your head in the sand? You are going to prepare your guys to play with whatcha got.
Hindsight, Pennington would have been the most economical. But did Chilly and Speilman want to replace our injury prone QB with a guy that might have issues with his arm/shoulder.

All we are in need of is a guy that can stay on the field and not turn the ball over.
We don't need a HOF QB to be successful in this offense.

We tend to agree a GREAT deal.
One thing on that note... we didn't so much pass on Brees as he was signed while we still had Daunte.
If we signed Brees, we lost a lot of bargaining power with trade value since he would have HAD to go.... we really DID steal a 2nd from Miami....

snowinapril
08-10-2009, 11:40 AM
"ThorSPL" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Childress has zero playoff wins in 3 seasons after taking over a 9-7 football team.
Let calm down with the extension talk.
The only reason the team has steadily gotten more wins is because he dismantled the team and took us to 6-10 in his first season anyway.

The second Childress shows he is actually capable of making a good decision with our quarterbacks I'll consider it.
He has FUBAR'ed that position from the day he got here to the present.


It is not fair to Chilly that TJ hasn't been able to stay healthy and on the field.

If they can get Harvin to be as dynamic as I think he will be, people will have to give credit where credit is do.

Chilly was the one that made the push for Harvin.
He went down there and was the judge of his character.
He went down there to get Harvin.
The clip on Harvin and the draft that was on here, the one where Speilman and Chilly were in the war room together.
It looked like Speilman's body language was saying that this is your call, he has fallen to our spot, we will take him.
Chilly got on the phone to tell him he was a Viking.
Chilly was about as pumped as the Chilly could let himself.


I am sure the Chiller sees Harvin as his Westbrook but only at WR.
Why would you want a Westbrook RB with AD on the team.
This will be neat to see if they can get the ball to him on a regular basis in space.
When veterans are wowed by a rookie, you have to be happy with the pick.
Now we need to see it translate to the field for us fans to be totally happy.

The argument that Harvin and AD fell into our laps is BS.
Evaluator of talent, is correct, our staff has done there job.
They evaluated and pounced on the guys they thought had talent.

Rehash:

Yes we passed on Brees.Yes we passed on Pennington.
Yes we lost out on Cutler.
Yes, we were stiffed by Favre.

What are you going to do, curl up in a ball or bury your head in the sand? You are going to prepare your guys to play with whatcha got.
Hindsight, Pennington would have been the most economical. But did Chilly and Speilman want to replace our injury prone QB with a guy that might have issues with his arm/shoulder.

All we are in need of is a guy that can stay on the field and not turn the ball over.
We don't need a HOF QB to be successful in this offense.

We tend to agree a GREAT deal.
One thing on that note... we didn't so much pass on Brees as he was signed while we still had Daunte.
If we signed Brees, we lost a lot of bargaining power with trade value since he would have HAD to go.... we really DID steal a 2nd from Miami....




Thank you for that clarification.
True, I still think some feel that we could have wheeled and dealed some how for him and had the balls to drop DC like the Jets did Chad P.
I totally hear you!

Marrdro
08-10-2009, 03:09 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Childress has zero playoff wins in 3 seasons after taking over a 9-7 football team.
Let calm down with the extension talk.
The only reason the team has steadily gotten more wins is because he dismantled the team and took us to 6-10 in his first season anyway.

The second Childress shows he is actually capable of making a good decision with our quarterbacks I'll consider it.
He has FUBAR'ed that position from the day he got here to the present.

What was there to really dismantle?
That 9-7 team was a shell of itself and wasn't gonna get any better. Even the QB position was all dorked up.

Johnson14
08-10-2009, 04:27 PM
Can not be arsed to read 15 pages...
:D

If we keep on improving and get deep into the playoffs this year (which i believe we've the talent too) then i'm all for keeping Chilly.

However if conservative play calling becomes a factor this year and we fall at the first hurdle in the playoffs then i would not extend his contract.

I think ultimately Chilly will live or die by his QB decision, or lack of it as it may be.

jargomcfargo
08-10-2009, 04:28 PM
"ThorSPL" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Childress has zero playoff wins in 3 seasons after taking over a 9-7 football team.
Let calm down with the extension talk.
The only reason the team has steadily gotten more wins is because he dismantled the team and took us to 6-10 in his first season anyway.

The second Childress shows he is actually capable of making a good decision with our quarterbacks I'll consider it.
He has FUBAR'ed that position from the day he got here to the present.


It is not fair to Chilly that TJ hasn't been able to stay healthy and on the field.

If they can get Harvin to be as dynamic as I think he will be, people will have to give credit where credit is do.

Chilly was the one that made the push for Harvin.
He went down there and was the judge of his character.
He went down there to get Harvin.
The clip on Harvin and the draft that was on here, the one where Speilman and Chilly were in the war room together.
It looked like Speilman's body language was saying that this is your call, he has fallen to our spot, we will take him.
Chilly got on the phone to tell him he was a Viking.
Chilly was about as pumped as the Chilly could let himself.


I am sure the Chiller sees Harvin as his Westbrook but only at WR.
Why would you want a Westbrook RB with AD on the team.
This will be neat to see if they can get the ball to him on a regular basis in space.
When veterans are wowed by a rookie, you have to be happy with the pick.
Now we need to see it translate to the field for us fans to be totally happy.

The argument that Harvin and AD fell into our laps is BS.
Evaluator of talent, is correct, our staff has done there job.
They evaluated and pounced on the guys they thought had talent.

Rehash:

Yes we passed on Brees.Yes we passed on Pennington.
Yes we lost out on Cutler.
Yes, we were stiffed by Favre.

What are you going to do, curl up in a ball or bury your head in the sand? You are going to prepare your guys to play with whatcha got.
Hindsight, Pennington would have been the most economical. But did Chilly and Speilman want to replace our injury prone QB with a guy that might have issues with his arm/shoulder.

All we are in need of is a guy that can stay on the field and not turn the ball over.
We don't need a HOF QB to be successful in this offense.

We tend to agree a GREAT deal.
One thing on that note... we didn't so much pass on Brees as he was signed while we still had Daunte.
If we signed Brees, we lost a lot of bargaining power with trade value since he would have HAD to go.... we really DID steal a 2nd from Miami....




True but there is more to the story.

Culpepper Sent out his infamous 'I know longer want to play for the Vikings' E-mail , to the media, on 7 March 2006.
It was reported on March 9.
At that time Zygi was willing to pay Culpeppers upcoming bonus, which indicates the Vikings trying to resolve the issues.

After also negotiating with Miami, Brees signed with the Saints 14 March 2006.

Culpepper was traded to Miami the next day, 15 March 2006.

The Brees window was extremely small for the Vikings.
In addition, he was coming off shoulder surgery on his throwing arm, which is always a little risky.
I don't think the Vikings had any interest in Brees. Nor did they have any realistic shot at landing him.

NodakPaul
08-10-2009, 05:11 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Childress has zero playoff wins in 3 seasons after taking over a 9-7 football team.
Let calm down with the extension talk.
The only reason the team has steadily gotten more wins is because he dismantled the team and took us to 6-10 in his first season anyway.

The second Childress shows he is actually capable of making a good decision with our quarterbacks I'll consider it.
He has FUBAR'ed that position from the day he got here to the present.

What was there to really dismantle?
That 9-7 team was a shell of itself and wasn't gonna get any better. Even the QB position was all dorked up.



+1

The "9-7" was probably the worst 9-7 team in football.
If I had to enter this season with the 9-7 team from '05 or the 6-10 team from '06, I would take the '06 team any day.
I think that they overperformed in 05 and underperformed in 06.

jargomcfargo
08-11-2009, 10:47 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


The other thing that I have pulled from all the TC info that we have rcvd, read, and watched is the fact that the guys we have are excited, having fun, motivated, wanting to hit and happy to be playing football on this team.
Childress has helped shape this.
He has brought in guys that have good attitudes.
He has brought in guys that have good football minds.
He helped instill a desire to compete.
You have to give him credit there.

I am sure there are guys out there on different teams that aren't excited about putting on the pads this season.
In a couple of those videos, we had guy hitting when they weren't suppose to or just a little harder than they were suppose to under the rules.
These guys are in camp with a desire to compete against one another to make themselves better as a team.

Besides that, we have modest stars on this team.
We don't have any TOs or Ocho Cincos on this team.
We have guys like AD and JA and PW and KW and AW and BB.......... We have blue collar guys like EJ, JK, JA, Shank, and all three of our QBs.
We have a ton of guys that had to work their way up.


I read a report from training camp on another website that touched me.
I think it fits in with the above post, which I agree with.
It is about the players as much as Childress, but reflects well on Childress.
Worth checking out.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/8/10/983884/my-report-from-mankato

Caine
08-11-2009, 11:16 AM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


The other thing that I have pulled from all the TC info that we have rcvd, read, and watched is the fact that the guys we have are excited, having fun, motivated, wanting to hit and happy to be playing football on this team.
Childress has helped shape this.
He has brought in guys that have good attitudes.
He has brought in guys that have good football minds.
He helped instill a desire to compete.
You have to give him credit there.

I am sure there are guys out there on different teams that aren't excited about putting on the pads this season.
In a couple of those videos, we had guy hitting when they weren't suppose to or just a little harder than they were suppose to under the rules.
These guys are in camp with a desire to compete against one another to make themselves better as a team.

Besides that, we have modest stars on this team.
We don't have any TOs or Ocho Cincos on this team.
We have guys like AD and JA and PW and KW and AW and BB.......... We have blue collar guys like EJ, JK, JA, Shank, and all three of our QBs.
We have a ton of guys that had to work their way up.


I read a report from training camp on another website that touched me.
I think it fits in with the above post, which I agree with.
It is about the players as much as Childress, but reflects well on Childress.
Worth checking out.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/8/10/983884/my-report-from-mankato


You know, the hard part about not being is Childress fan is the fact that he does appear so likeable.

Of course, so was Tice, but that's another story.

There is no denying that the caliber of the team has improved since Childress' arrival.
And a case could be made that Childress has played a role in that.
Of course, a case could also be made that it had a LOT more to do with the opening of the checkbook by the owner (as opposed to the freeze out of our previous owner...whom I despise).
See, it's easy to sign quality guys when you have the money to do so.

But yeah, I'll bet Chiller is a darn nice person, and probably has loads of great football stories.

But that's not why you hire/keep or fire/replace a coach.

Childress was brought in here and touted as a QB "guru".
After 3 seasons, I have yet to see an impressive QB.
And spare me all the "Jackson will do it this season" bollux.
That's pure speculation, and we're not dealing with "What if's" here.

Childress also promised a KAO...and if he refered to the ability to punt or kick field goals, he was right.
We do have a "Kick Allot Offense".
But that's not what the rest of us thought he meant.
And if he truly meant an explosive and dynamic offense that frightens opposing Defenses...well...the only thing that does that right now is AP, and Chiller can't take credit for that.

I am willing to bet that if I was belly up to the bar with Chiller, hammering down brewskis and "talking shop", I'd have a GREAT time.
But I'd still tell you that I don't believe - based solely upon his performance to date - that he has lived up to his billing.
And I further don't have much faith in him as the coach that will take the team I care about to the Superbowl and win it.

And THAT is what this is about.


Caine

jargomcfargo
08-11-2009, 11:56 AM
"Caine" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


The other thing that I have pulled from all the TC info that we have rcvd, read, and watched is the fact that the guys we have are excited, having fun, motivated, wanting to hit and happy to be playing football on this team.
Childress has helped shape this.
He has brought in guys that have good attitudes.
He has brought in guys that have good football minds.
He helped instill a desire to compete.
You have to give him credit there.

I am sure there are guys out there on different teams that aren't excited about putting on the pads this season.
In a couple of those videos, we had guy hitting when they weren't suppose to or just a little harder than they were suppose to under the rules.
These guys are in camp with a desire to compete against one another to make themselves better as a team.

Besides that, we have modest stars on this team.
We don't have any TOs or Ocho Cincos on this team.
We have guys like AD and JA and PW and KW and AW and BB.......... We have blue collar guys like EJ, JK, JA, Shank, and all three of our QBs.
We have a ton of guys that had to work their way up.


I read a report from training camp on another website that touched me.
I think it fits in with the above post, which I agree with.
It is about the players as much as Childress, but reflects well on Childress.
Worth checking out.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/8/10/983884/my-report-from-mankato


You know, the hard part about not being is Childress fan is the fact that he does appear so likeable.

Of course, so was Tice, but that's another story.

There is no denying that the calibner of the team has improved since Childress' arrival.
And a case could be made that Childress has played a role in that.
Of course, a case could also be made that it had a LOT more to do with the opening of the checkbook by the owner (as opposed to the freeze out of our previous owner...whom I despise).
See, it's easy to sign quality guys when you have the money to do so.

But yeah, I'll bet Chiller is a darn nice person, and probably has loads of great football stories.

But that's not why you hire/keep or fire/replace a coach.

Childress was brought in here and touted as a QB "guru".
After 3 seasons, I have yet to see an impressive QB.
And spare me all the "Jackson will do it this season" bollux.
That's pure speculation, and we're not dealing with "What if's" here.

Childress also promised a KAO...and if he refered to the ability to punt or kick field goals, he was right.
We do have a "Kick Allot Offense".
But that's not what the rest of us thought he meant.
And if he truly meant an explosive and dynamic offense that frightens opposing Defenses...well...the only thing that does that right now is AP, and Chiller can't take credit for that.

I am willing to bet that if I was belly up to the bar with Chiller, hammering down brewskis and "talking shop", I'd have a GREAT time.
But I'd still tell you that I don't believe - based solely upon his performance to date - that he has lived up to his billing.
And I further don't have much faith in him as the coach that will take the team I care about to the Superbowl and win it.

And THAT is what this is about.


Caine


Yes. It's about coaching.
The situation with the QB's is mystifying to say the least.

It starts with Wilf and his concept of how the organization should be structured.

Did Childress sell him on the idea that a true GM wasn't needed?

With a GM in place I doubt we would have seen Childress calling plays or Bevell on this staff.

It is my belief that Childress would be a much better head coach if he had a talented offensive coordinator, and let him do his job.

i_bleed_purple
08-11-2009, 12:34 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


The other thing that I have pulled from all the TC info that we have rcvd, read, and watched is the fact that the guys we have are excited, having fun, motivated, wanting to hit and happy to be playing football on this team.
Childress has helped shape this.
He has brought in guys that have good attitudes.
He has brought in guys that have good football minds.
He helped instill a desire to compete.
You have to give him credit there.

I am sure there are guys out there on different teams that aren't excited about putting on the pads this season.
In a couple of those videos, we had guy hitting when they weren't suppose to or just a little harder than they were suppose to under the rules.
These guys are in camp with a desire to compete against one another to make themselves better as a team.

Besides that, we have modest stars on this team.
We don't have any TOs or Ocho Cincos on this team.
We have guys like AD and JA and PW and KW and AW and BB.......... We have blue collar guys like EJ, JK, JA, Shank, and all three of our QBs.
We have a ton of guys that had to work their way up.


I read a report from training camp on another website that touched me.
I think it fits in with the above post, which I agree with.
It is about the players as much as Childress, but reflects well on Childress.
Worth checking out.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/8/10/983884/my-report-from-mankato


You know, the hard part about not being is Childress fan is the fact that he does appear so likeable.

Of course, so was Tice, but that's another story.

There is no denying that the calibner of the team has improved since Childress' arrival.
And a case could be made that Childress has played a role in that.
Of course, a case could also be made that it had a LOT more to do with the opening of the checkbook by the owner (as opposed to the freeze out of our previous owner...whom I despise).
See, it's easy to sign quality guys when you have the money to do so.

But yeah, I'll bet Chiller is a darn nice person, and probably has loads of great football stories.

But that's not why you hire/keep or fire/replace a coach.

Childress was brought in here and touted as a QB "guru".
After 3 seasons, I have yet to see an impressive QB.
And spare me all the "Jackson will do it this season" bollux.
That's pure speculation, and we're not dealing with "What if's" here.

Childress also promised a KAO...and if he refered to the ability to punt or kick field goals, he was right.
We do have a "Kick Allot Offense".
But that's not what the rest of us thought he meant.
And if he truly meant an explosive and dynamic offense that frightens opposing Defenses...well...the only thing that does that right now is AP, and Chiller can't take credit for that.

I am willing to bet that if I was belly up to the bar with Chiller, hammering down brewskis and "talking shop", I'd have a GREAT time.
But I'd still tell you that I don't believe - based solely upon his performance to date - that he has lived up to his billing.
And I further don't have much faith in him as the coach that will take the team I care about to the Superbowl and win it.

And THAT is what this is about.


Caine


Yes. It's about coaching.
The situation with the QB's is mystifying to say the least.

It starts with Wilf and his concept of how the organization should be structured.

Did Childress sell him on the idea that a true GM wasn't needed?

With a GM in place I doubt we would have seen Childress calling plays or Bevell on this staff.

It is my belief that Childress would be a much better head coach if he had a talented offensive coordinator, and let him do his job.


my thought is, if Chilly is so good at assembling a team, but not necessarily developing it, why not let him do just that?
Next season, bring in Holmgren, Mooch, Shotty or Cowher, and let Chilly have a FO job with Rick.
Let him be somewhat like the GM, as he seems to have done a pretty good job evaluating talent, getting good players with good heads on their shoulders.
If Harvin ends up panning out, he'll have also shown he can take a risk on a player that he thinks is a goodp layer.
Kinda dungy-like.

Caine
08-11-2009, 12:41 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


The other thing that I have pulled from all the TC info that we have rcvd, read, and watched is the fact that the guys we have are excited, having fun, motivated, wanting to hit and happy to be playing football on this team.
Childress has helped shape this.
He has brought in guys that have good attitudes.
He has brought in guys that have good football minds.
He helped instill a desire to compete.
You have to give him credit there.

I am sure there are guys out there on different teams that aren't excited about putting on the pads this season.
In a couple of those videos, we had guy hitting when they weren't suppose to or just a little harder than they were suppose to under the rules.
These guys are in camp with a desire to compete against one another to make themselves better as a team.

Besides that, we have modest stars on this team.
We don't have any TOs or Ocho Cincos on this team.
We have guys like AD and JA and PW and KW and AW and BB.......... We have blue collar guys like EJ, JK, JA, Shank, and all three of our QBs.
We have a ton of guys that had to work their way up.


I read a report from training camp on another website that touched me.
I think it fits in with the above post, which I agree with.
It is about the players as much as Childress, but reflects well on Childress.
Worth checking out.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/8/10/983884/my-report-from-mankato


You know, the hard part about not being is Childress fan is the fact that he does appear so likeable.

Of course, so was Tice, but that's another story.

There is no denying that the calibner of the team has improved since Childress' arrival.
And a case could be made that Childress has played a role in that.
Of course, a case could also be made that it had a LOT more to do with the opening of the checkbook by the owner (as opposed to the freeze out of our previous owner...whom I despise).
See, it's easy to sign quality guys when you have the money to do so.

But yeah, I'll bet Chiller is a darn nice person, and probably has loads of great football stories.

But that's not why you hire/keep or fire/replace a coach.

Childress was brought in here and touted as a QB "guru".
After 3 seasons, I have yet to see an impressive QB.
And spare me all the "Jackson will do it this season" bollux.
That's pure speculation, and we're not dealing with "What if's" here.

Childress also promised a KAO...and if he refered to the ability to punt or kick field goals, he was right.
We do have a "Kick Allot Offense".
But that's not what the rest of us thought he meant.
And if he truly meant an explosive and dynamic offense that frightens opposing Defenses...well...the only thing that does that right now is AP, and Chiller can't take credit for that.

I am willing to bet that if I was belly up to the bar with Chiller, hammering down brewskis and "talking shop", I'd have a GREAT time.
But I'd still tell you that I don't believe - based solely upon his performance to date - that he has lived up to his billing.
And I further don't have much faith in him as the coach that will take the team I care about to the Superbowl and win it.

And THAT is what this is about.


Caine


Yes. It's about coaching.
The situation with the QB's is mystifying to say the least.

It starts with Wilf and his concept of how the organization should be structured.

Did Childress sell him on the idea that a true GM wasn't needed?

With a GM in place I doubt we would have seen Childress calling plays or Bevell on this staff.

It is my belief that Childress would be a much better head coach if he had a talented offensive coordinator, and let him do his job.


my thought is, if Chilly is so good at assembling a team, but not necessarily developing it, why not let him do just that?
Next season, bring in Holmgren, Mooch, Shotty or Cowher, and let Chilly have a FO job with Rick.
Let him be somewhat like the GM, as he seems to have done a pretty good job evaluating talent, getting good players with good heads on their shoulders.
If Harvin ends up panning out, he'll have also shown he can take a risk on a player that he thinks is a goodp layer.

Kinda dungy-like.


Yet how do you package that to Chiller?


Chiller hired Bevell so that he (Chiller) could run the Offense unopposed.
Moving him up to the FO and bringing someone else in is taking all that power and control away...and that's not what Chiller wants.


Just like bringing in a real GM is taking power and control away from Wilf, and that's not what HE wants.

At the end of the day, both Chiller and Wilf are letting their egos drive certain elements of the team, and it is having a detrimental effect on the overall team.
It's not a malicious thing, but neither man has recognized it, or taken steps to correct it.
And, sadly, until they do, we will likely be stuck in the middle of the NFL power structure.

Caine

i_bleed_purple
08-11-2009, 12:43 PM
"Caine" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:




The other thing that I have pulled from all the TC info that we have rcvd, read, and watched is the fact that the guys we have are excited, having fun, motivated, wanting to hit and happy to be playing football on this team.
Childress has helped shape this.
He has brought in guys that have good attitudes.
He has brought in guys that have good football minds.
He helped instill a desire to compete.
You have to give him credit there.

I am sure there are guys out there on different teams that aren't excited about putting on the pads this season.
In a couple of those videos, we had guy hitting when they weren't suppose to or just a little harder than they were suppose to under the rules.
These guys are in camp with a desire to compete against one another to make themselves better as a team.

Besides that, we have modest stars on this team.
We don't have any TOs or Ocho Cincos on this team.
We have guys like AD and JA and PW and KW and AW and BB.......... We have blue collar guys like EJ, JK, JA, Shank, and all three of our QBs.
We have a ton of guys that had to work their way up.


I read a report from training camp on another website that touched me.
I think it fits in with the above post, which I agree with.
It is about the players as much as Childress, but reflects well on Childress.
Worth checking out.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/8/10/983884/my-report-from-mankato


You know, the hard part about not being is Childress fan is the fact that he does appear so likeable.

Of course, so was Tice, but that's another story.

There is no denying that the calibner of the team has improved since Childress' arrival.
And a case could be made that Childress has played a role in that.
Of course, a case could also be made that it had a LOT more to do with the opening of the checkbook by the owner (as opposed to the freeze out of our previous owner...whom I despise).
See, it's easy to sign quality guys when you have the money to do so.

But yeah, I'll bet Chiller is a darn nice person, and probably has loads of great football stories.

But that's not why you hire/keep or fire/replace a coach.

Childress was brought in here and touted as a QB "guru".
After 3 seasons, I have yet to see an impressive QB.
And spare me all the "Jackson will do it this season" bollux.
That's pure speculation, and we're not dealing with "What if's" here.

Childress also promised a KAO...and if he refered to the ability to punt or kick field goals, he was right.
We do have a "Kick Allot Offense".
But that's not what the rest of us thought he meant.
And if he truly meant an explosive and dynamic offense that frightens opposing Defenses...well...the only thing that does that right now is AP, and Chiller can't take credit for that.

I am willing to bet that if I was belly up to the bar with Chiller, hammering down brewskis and "talking shop", I'd have a GREAT time.
But I'd still tell you that I don't believe - based solely upon his performance to date - that he has lived up to his billing.
And I further don't have much faith in him as the coach that will take the team I care about to the Superbowl and win it.

And THAT is what this is about.


Caine


Yes. It's about coaching.
The situation with the QB's is mystifying to say the least.

It starts with Wilf and his concept of how the organization should be structured.

Did Childress sell him on the idea that a true GM wasn't needed?

With a GM in place I doubt we would have seen Childress calling plays or Bevell on this staff.

It is my belief that Childress would be a much better head coach if he had a talented offensive coordinator, and let him do his job.


my thought is, if Chilly is so good at assembling a team, but not necessarily developing it, why not let him do just that?
Next season, bring in Holmgren, Mooch, Shotty or Cowher, and let Chilly have a FO job with Rick.
Let him be somewhat like the GM, as he seems to have done a pretty good job evaluating talent, getting good players with good heads on their shoulders.
If Harvin ends up panning out, he'll have also shown he can take a risk on a player that he thinks is a goodp layer.

Kinda dungy-like.


Yet how do you package that to Chiller?


Chiller hired Bevell so that he (Chiller) could run the Offense unopposed.
Moving him up to the FO and bringing someone else in is taking all that power and control away...and that's not what Chiller wants.


Just like bringing in a real GM is taking power and control away from Wilf, and that's not what HE wants.

At the end of the day, both Chiller and Wilf are letting their egos drive certain elements of the team, and it is having a detrimental effect on the overall team.
It's not a malicious thing, but neither man has recognized it, or taken steps to correct it.
And, sadly, until they do, we will likely be stuck in the middle of the NFL power structure.

Caine


Getting canned probably isn't what tice wanted eitehr, but it didn't seem to matter.
If Chilly can't get his act together, give him the option to do that, or pack his bags.
It'l be tough for him to get another HC job right away.

Purple Floyd
08-11-2009, 12:48 PM
"Caine" wrote:



Yet how do you package that to Chiller?






I would start with:

"Do this or you're fired"


and go from there. ;D

V4L
08-11-2009, 12:58 PM
Fire him

Some of u are on drugs

C Mac D
08-11-2009, 01:00 PM
"V4L" wrote:


Fire him

Some of u are on drugs


Yeah... but... I haven't even posted in this discussion.

mountainviking
08-11-2009, 01:10 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


The other thing that I have pulled from all the TC info that we have rcvd, read, and watched is the fact that the guys we have are excited, having fun, motivated, wanting to hit and happy to be playing football on this team.
Childress has helped shape this.
He has brought in guys that have good attitudes.
He has brought in guys that have good football minds.
He helped instill a desire to compete.
You have to give him credit there.

I am sure there are guys out there on different teams that aren't excited about putting on the pads this season.
In a couple of those videos, we had guy hitting when they weren't suppose to or just a little harder than they were suppose to under the rules.
These guys are in camp with a desire to compete against one another to make themselves better as a team.

Besides that, we have modest stars on this team.
We don't have any TOs or Ocho Cincos on this team.
We have guys like AD and JA and PW and KW and AW and BB.......... We have blue collar guys like EJ, JK, JA, Shank, and all three of our QBs.
We have a ton of guys that had to work their way up.


I read a report from training camp on another website that touched me.
I think it fits in with the above post, which I agree with.
It is about the players as much as Childress, but reflects well on Childress.
Worth checking out.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/8/10/983884/my-report-from-mankato


Thanks for the read!!



I was proud to see the type of people we see on TV each Sunday. They were not cocky athletes but
genuinely nice guys like i have never seen as much of in the past. Made me more proud to be a Viking Fan.

Amen Brother!!
It really has changed to a more supportive, family style locker room under childress.
Notice, all of our guys who have left the past 2 years have talked highly about their experience here and the comraderie they felt!

Yes, its been a rebuilding period, but the best thing is, is this team is now built to last.
We've resigned key players and drafted good depth for the future.
We still have all our picks for next year, and a good amount of cap space coming available.
We have several young guys poised for break out years in: Rice, Griffin, Greenway, Robison, and possibly even younger like: Tyrell, Sullivan, JJ or even Tahi.
We've seen huge strides in production/consistency out of guys like BB and Shank with time in the system.


We've been more or less forced to go with TJack in nearly every year early in his career.
Perhaps, the KAO isn't kicking, cuz the talent hasn't been deep enough at enough spots.
It takes time to fill them all during a rebuild.
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but is this the most we've spent on the QB psition in Chilly's tenure?
Our WR core looks better than it has in a long time.
The OL has some new talent too.
My guess is that this offense looks better regardless of who the QB ends up being.
And, if that happens, our defense should be able to do enough to win most games for us...and make us a true contender in the playoffs.
(*!as always, with the injury disclaimer.
That bug can eat a whole team in a blink sometimes!!*)
SKOL VIKINGS!!!

Vikes_King
08-11-2009, 02:04 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


The other thing that I have pulled from all the TC info that we have rcvd, read, and watched is the fact that the guys we have are excited, having fun, motivated, wanting to hit and happy to be playing football on this team.
Childress has helped shape this.
He has brought in guys that have good attitudes.
He has brought in guys that have good football minds.
He helped instill a desire to compete.
You have to give him credit there.

I am sure there are guys out there on different teams that aren't excited about putting on the pads this season.
In a couple of those videos, we had guy hitting when they weren't suppose to or just a little harder than they were suppose to under the rules.
These guys are in camp with a desire to compete against one another to make themselves better as a team.

Besides that, we have modest stars on this team.
We don't have any TOs or Ocho Cincos on this team.
We have guys like AD and JA and PW and KW and AW and BB.......... We have blue collar guys like EJ, JK, JA, Shank, and all three of our QBs.
We have a ton of guys that had to work their way up.


I read a report from training camp on another website that touched me.
I think it fits in with the above post, which I agree with.
It is about the players as much as Childress, but reflects well on Childress.
Worth checking out.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/8/10/983884/my-report-from-mankato


All I gathered from this post.. is that the best way for me to get some good stories from training camp, is to be in a wheelchair.


Ok, that was horrible.
I do love these stories, and if you ever get the opportunity to mingle with the players you'll see what he wrote is very true.
The players we have right now, for the most part, are very respectable.
My mom - a life long Vikings fan - works at Gage where the players eat, and a lot of them regularly will just chat with her when they're done eating.
She texts me all the time asking me who a player is (most of them have key chains with their numbers on it).
According to her, Karl Dunbar (DLine Coach), Sidney Rice, and Asher Allen are all incredibly polite and kind and visit with her almost every day.

Have to respect what the organization has done to turn around a team that a few years back damn near was competing with the Bengals for most criminals on a team.
Lets just hope they can play ball

Sajid28
08-11-2009, 02:15 PM
chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke. lets face it, this team is not a contender until it fixes its qb, play calling, and a couple of other things. if u guys think tjack or sage can take us to the promise land then you guys have been drinking to much purple drink. the only promise land they will take us to is an imaginary one, called a "wet dream". the status of the team now is the highest you will ever see it under Chillys control.

Chilly did a good job in taking the team from being a joke to an average team. i give him credit for that, but its time to bring in an elite coach (cowher, shanny, etc.) to take this team to the next level.

i_bleed_purple
08-11-2009, 02:38 PM
"Sajid28" wrote:


chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.

Sajid28
08-11-2009, 03:21 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap, that is when we became a joke. chilly took that and built it to what we have today which is noteworthy. but thats as far as i see it going. it was a nice run chilly.. but we gotta move on to bigger and better things.

i_bleed_purple
08-11-2009, 03:29 PM
"Sajid28" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.

Formo
08-11-2009, 03:41 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..

Sajid28
08-11-2009, 04:14 PM
"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


very nicely put together..

i_bleed_purple
08-11-2009, 04:34 PM
"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.

Formo
08-11-2009, 10:49 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:




chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


This was more than just on-the-field success.
Tice's/Red's team, off-the-field, was in fact, a joke.
The laughing stock of the NFL along with the Bungles.

On-the-field..
Lets stop and evaluate this a bit..
When the new ownership/coaching staff/FO took control, did they:
A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper)
B)develop new offense and defense schemes.
C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down.
D)all of the above.

Anytime a team goes through the complete overhaul of schemes, leadership, front office personel, etc, you can almost guarantee a lack of on-the-field production when compared to prior years' teams.

Little known fact:
Since the hiring of Chilly as HC, the Vikings record has improved yearly by 2 wins a year.

Zeus
08-11-2009, 10:51 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:




chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


If the Bears had bothered to show up for Week 17, it would have been 8-8, not 9-7.

=Z=

i_bleed_purple
08-11-2009, 11:20 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:






chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


If the Bears had bothered to show up for Week 17, it would have been 8-8, not 9-7.

=Z=


If the Giants had bothered to show up for week 17, we would be 9-7, not 10-6.
I guess that means we're still a joke?

Caine
08-12-2009, 02:15 AM
"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Sajid28" wrote:






chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


This was more than just on-the-field success.
Tice's/Red's team, off-the-field, was in fact, a joke.
The laughing stock of the NFL along with the Bungles.

On-the-field..
Lets stop and evaluate this a bit..
When the new ownership/coaching staff/FO took control, did they:
A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper)
B)develop new offense and defense schemes.
C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down.
D)all of the above.

Anytime a team goes through the complete overhaul of schemes, leadership, front office personel, etc, you can almost guarantee a lack of on-the-field production when compared to prior years' teams.

Little known fact:
Since the hiring of Chilly as HC, the Vikings record has improved yearly by 2 wins a year.


Really?
You’re Still trying to hang Tice to prove Chiller is the better coach?
Get real.

During his tenure, Tice was not allowed to hire coaches.
When Billick left (because Red *buggers beagles* McCombs wouldn’t renew his contract), Tice was told to promote from within…and Steve Loney wound up as OC.
Several of Tices coaches were pulling double duty because Red *gargles goats* McCombs wouldn’t hire anyone to fill the vacancies.

As far as Free Agents go…the ONLY guy I recall being brought in was Antoine Winfield.
Red *pokes poodles* McCombs wouldn’t allow Tice to go after FA’s, which is why we always had so much cap room.

Wilf got here, watched Tice for one year, fired him, hired Chiller, and THEN opened the checkbook.

Chiller has a coaching staff almost double the size of Tice’s…because Wilf bankrolls it.
Chiller has brought in numerous FA’s and has signed almost everyone he wanted…because Wilf bankrolls it.

See the difference?
If not, think about it like this.
You and I have to each build a house.
I have access to unlimited labor, equipment,
and resources…and you can use whatever is in your back yard.
Who will build the better house?

The point here is that Tice, as much as he is maligned, did FAR more with FAR less than Chiller has done.
There is no doubt in my mind that had Tice been given access to the resources Chiller has, he would have put together a winning franchise in less time because Tice recognized something about himself that Chiller hasn’t figured out.
Tice knew that he didn’t know it all.
That’s why he wanted to keep Billick as OC.
Meanwhile, Chiller keeps Bevell around…his version of Steve Loney.

I’ll take Tice over Chiller ANY day.

Caine

Purple Floyd
08-12-2009, 08:03 AM
"Caine" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:








chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


This was more than just on-the-field success.
Tice's/Red's team, off-the-field, was in fact, a joke.
The laughing stock of the NFL along with the Bungles.

On-the-field..
Lets stop and evaluate this a bit..
When the new ownership/coaching staff/FO took control, did they:
A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper)
B)develop new offense and defense schemes.
C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down.
D)all of the above.

Anytime a team goes through the complete overhaul of schemes, leadership, front office personel, etc, you can almost guarantee a lack of on-the-field production when compared to prior years' teams.

Little known fact:
Since the hiring of Chilly as HC, the Vikings record has improved yearly by 2 wins a year.


Really?
You’re Still trying to hang Tice to prove Chiller is the better coach?
Get real.

During his tenure, Tice was not allowed to hire coaches.
When Billick left (because Red *buggers beagles* McCombs wouldn’t renew his contract), Tice was told to promote from within…and Steve Loney wound up as OC.
Several of Tices coaches were pulling double duty because Red *gargles goats* McCombs wouldn’t hire anyone to fill the vacancies.

As far as Free Agents go…the ONLY guy I recall being brought in was Antoine Winfield.
Red *pokes poodles* McCombs wouldn’t allow Tice to go after FA’s, which is why we always had so much cap room.

Wilf got here, watched Tice for one year, fired him, hired Chiller, and THEN opened the checkbook.

Chiller has a coaching staff almost double the size of Tice’s…because Wilf bankrolls it.
Chiller has brought in numerous FA’s and has signed almost everyone he wanted…because Wilf bankrolls it.

See the difference?
If not, think about it like this.
You and I have to each build a house.
I have access to unlimited labor, equipment,
and resources…and you can use whatever is in your back yard.
Who will build the better house?

The point here is that Tice, as much as he is maligned, did FAR more with FAR less than Chiller has done.
There is no doubt in my mind that had Tice been given access to the resources Chiller has, he would have put together a winning franchise in less time because Tice recognized something about himself that Chiller hasn’t figured out.
Tice knew that he didn’t know it all.
That’s why he wanted to keep Billick as OC.
Meanwhile, Chiller keeps Bevell around…his version of Steve Loney.

I’ll take Tice over Chiller ANY day.

Caine



Billick had already won a SB with the Ravens before Tice was named HC ;)

PackSux!
08-12-2009, 06:04 PM
"Caine" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:








chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


This was more than just on-the-field success.
Tice's/Red's team, off-the-field, was in fact, a joke.
The laughing stock of the NFL along with the Bungles.

On-the-field..
Lets stop and evaluate this a bit..
When the new ownership/coaching staff/FO took control, did they:
A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper)
B)develop new offense and defense schemes.
C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down.
D)all of the above.

Anytime a team goes through the complete overhaul of schemes, leadership, front office personel, etc, you can almost guarantee a lack of on-the-field production when compared to prior years' teams.

Little known fact:
Since the hiring of Chilly as HC, the Vikings record has improved yearly by 2 wins a year.


Really?
You’re Still trying to hang Tice to prove Chiller is the better coach?
Get real.

During his tenure, Tice was not allowed to hire coaches.
When Billick left (because Red *buggers beagles* McCombs wouldn’t renew his contract), Tice was told to promote from within…and Steve Loney wound up as OC.
Several of Tices coaches were pulling double duty because Red *gargles goats* McCombs wouldn’t hire anyone to fill the vacancies.

As far as Free Agents go…the ONLY guy I recall being brought in was Antoine Winfield.
Red *pokes poodles* McCombs wouldn’t allow Tice to go after FA’s, which is why we always had so much cap room.

Wilf got here, watched Tice for one year, fired him, hired Chiller, and THEN opened the checkbook.

Chiller has a coaching staff almost double the size of Tice’s…because Wilf bankrolls it.
Chiller has brought in numerous FA’s and has signed almost everyone he wanted…because Wilf bankrolls it.

See the difference?
If not, think about it like this.
You and I have to each build a house.
I have access to unlimited labor, equipment,
and resources…and you can use whatever is in your back yard.
Who will build the better house?
The point here is that Tice, as much as he is maligned, did FAR more with FAR less than Chiller has done.
There is no doubt in my mind that had Tice been given access to the resources Chiller has, he would have put together a winning franchise in less time because Tice recognized something about himself that Chiller hasn’t figured out.
Tice knew that he didn’t know it all.
That’s why he wanted to keep Billick as OC.
Meanwhile, Chiller keeps Bevell around…his version of Steve Loney.

I’ll take Tice over Chiller ANY day.

Caine



If you got your supplies from Menards then I would gladly use the old wood and supplies in my backyard.

Caine
08-12-2009, 07:05 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:










chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


This was more than just on-the-field success.
Tice's/Red's team, off-the-field, was in fact, a joke.
The laughing stock of the NFL along with the Bungles.

On-the-field..
Lets stop and evaluate this a bit..
When the new ownership/coaching staff/FO took control, did they:
A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper)
B)develop new offense and defense schemes.
C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down.
D)all of the above.

Anytime a team goes through the complete overhaul of schemes, leadership, front office personel, etc, you can almost guarantee a lack of on-the-field production when compared to prior years' teams.

Little known fact:
Since the hiring of Chilly as HC, the Vikings record has improved yearly by 2 wins a year.


Really?
You’re Still trying to hang Tice to prove Chiller is the better coach?
Get real.

During his tenure, Tice was not allowed to hire coaches.
When Billick left (because Red *buggers beagles* McCombs wouldn’t renew his contract), Tice was told to promote from within…and Steve Loney wound up as OC.
Several of Tices coaches were pulling double duty because Red *gargles goats* McCombs wouldn’t hire anyone to fill the vacancies.

As far as Free Agents go…the ONLY guy I recall being brought in was Antoine Winfield.
Red *pokes poodles* McCombs wouldn’t allow Tice to go after FA’s, which is why we always had so much cap room.

Wilf got here, watched Tice for one year, fired him, hired Chiller, and THEN opened the checkbook.

Chiller has a coaching staff almost double the size of Tice’s…because Wilf bankrolls it.
Chiller has brought in numerous FA’s and has signed almost everyone he wanted…because Wilf bankrolls it.

See the difference?
If not, think about it like this.
You and I have to each build a house.
I have access to unlimited labor, equipment,
and resources…and you can use whatever is in your back yard.
Who will build the better house?

The point here is that Tice, as much as he is maligned, did FAR more with FAR less than Chiller has done.
There is no doubt in my mind that had Tice been given access to the resources Chiller has, he would have put together a winning franchise in less time because Tice recognized something about himself that Chiller hasn’t figured out.
Tice knew that he didn’t know it all.
That’s why he wanted to keep Billick as OC.
Meanwhile, Chiller keeps Bevell around…his version of Steve Loney.

I’ll take Tice over Chiller ANY day.

Caine



Billick had already won a SB with the Ravens before Tice was named HC ;)


Sorry, you're right.
It was Scott Linehan who was the departed OC after the 04 season.


Caine

Formo
08-12-2009, 09:22 PM
"Caine" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:








chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


This was more than just on-the-field success.
Tice's/Red's team, off-the-field, was in fact, a joke.
The laughing stock of the NFL along with the Bungles.

On-the-field..
Lets stop and evaluate this a bit..
When the new ownership/coaching staff/FO took control, did they:
A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper)
B)develop new offense and defense schemes.
C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down.
D)all of the above.

Anytime a team goes through the complete overhaul of schemes, leadership, front office personel, etc, you can almost guarantee a lack of on-the-field production when compared to prior years' teams.

Little known fact:
Since the hiring of Chilly as HC, the Vikings record has improved yearly by 2 wins a year.


Really?
You’re Still trying to hang Tice to prove Chiller is the better coach?
Get real.

During his tenure, Tice was not allowed to hire coaches.
When Billick left (because Red *buggers beagles* McCombs wouldn’t renew his contract), Tice was told to promote from within…and Steve Loney wound up as OC.
Several of Tices coaches were pulling double duty because Red *gargles goats* McCombs wouldn’t hire anyone to fill the vacancies.

As far as Free Agents go…the ONLY guy I recall being brought in was Antoine Winfield.
Red *pokes poodles* McCombs wouldn’t allow Tice to go after FA’s, which is why we always had so much cap room.

Wilf got here, watched Tice for one year, fired him, hired Chiller, and THEN opened the checkbook.

Chiller has a coaching staff almost double the size of Tice’s…because Wilf bankrolls it.
Chiller has brought in numerous FA’s and has signed almost everyone he wanted…because Wilf bankrolls it.

See the difference?
If not, think about it like this.
You and I have to each build a house.
I have access to unlimited labor, equipment,
and resources…and you can use whatever is in your back yard.
Who will build the better house?

The point here is that Tice, as much as he is maligned, did FAR more with FAR less than Chiller has done.
There is no doubt in my mind that had Tice been given access to the resources Chiller has, he would have put together a winning franchise in less time because Tice recognized something about himself that Chiller hasn’t figured out.
Tice knew that he didn’t know it all.
That’s why he wanted to keep Billick as OC.
Meanwhile, Chiller keeps Bevell around…his version of Steve Loney.

I’ll take Tice over Chiller ANY day.

Caine



Ahhh..
here we go...

I'd take the Chiller, with less on-the-field over Tice, with more on-the-field.

I already stated this:
Tice's/Red's team, whether you like it or not, was a J-O-K-E off-the-field.
Which was my whole point.
I'm not even looking at the on-the-field results as far as that statement is concerned.

I concede your point.
Tice was given (if we can say that) a LOT less to work with when compared to Chilly.
And it's VERY debatable to say that Tice/Chilly was the better coach, when analyzing each coaches situation.
I still say, though, that Tice wouldn't have done better if he took the Vikes through the change that Chilly did.. ESPECIALLY TO CHANGE THEIR PR IMAGE (if Tice was capable of that...)..
A change that involved the 3 points in my previous post that you quoted.

I'm not hanging Tice to prove Chilly is the better coach.
I'm hanging Tice because his teams' PR image sucked, which in turn embarrasses me as a fan.
Chilly/Wilf came in and help clean that image up.

NodakPaul
08-12-2009, 10:34 PM
Tice was given less to work with from a staff point of view.
I agree.
But that doesn't somehow mean that he would have done any better if he had been given more.
Red hired the cheapest help available, and that INCLUDED Tice.
You get what you pay for.

If you don't like Childress - that is fine.
But making Tice out to be a LOT more than he ever was as a head coach just to justify your dislike of Childress is ridiculous.
Resources or not, Childress has put together a better team and taken it farther in 3 years than Tice ever did.
And unlike Tice's up and down years, Childress has improved each year.

You want Tice, you can have him.
He would probably make a great high school coach.
I'll take Childress for the Vikings though.

Purple Floyd
08-12-2009, 11:58 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


Tice was given less to work with from a staff point of view.
I agree.
But that doesn't somehow mean that he would have done any better if he had been given more.
Red hired the cheapest help available, and that INCLUDED Tice.
You get what you pay for.

If you don't like Childress - that is fine.
But making Tice out to be a LOT more than he ever was as a head coach just to justify your dislike of Childress is ridiculous.
Resources or not, Childress has put together a better team and taken it farther in 3 years than Tice ever did.
And unlike Tice's up and down years, Childress has improved each year.

You want Tice, you can have him.
He would probably make a great high school coach.
I'll take Childress for the Vikings though.


You can really look at it two ways.

Yes, Childress has possibly put together a better staff in some regards(Although I would argue that Linehan is better than Bevell and with the performance of the special teams last year I find it hard to argue that we had any advantage there.) But the question does remain, would Childress have been able to hire the same quality staff if he were coaching for Red instead of Wilf. I think it is very safe to say no.

And Childress has been given a great amount of FA money to improve the roster so far. When we get to the point where he starts to lose some core guys, his record will certainly fall. In fact, had he not been given the money to sign key guys like Hutch, CT, Williams, Allen, Shank, Berrian etc, there is no way in hell we would have 10 wins last season. Had Tice been given the chance to bring in guys of similar caliber he would have had a better record. Tice inherited a team with a defense that was decimated during the Green era. Green inherited a team with the best defense in the league and dismantled it to build the offense. Tice was using the limited funds he was given to build the defense as much as possible while trying to maintain an offense in spite of an owner who sent the best player in the league to the Raiders.How would Childress have done last year if Wilf had sent Adrian Peterson to the Raiders for a flunkie LB and a draft pick?


At any rate as I have stated, I like Childress for his organization and the personnel moves he has made the past 2 years(the 1st year was a disaster with the exception of Hutch and CT) And I think he could be a great F.O guy. I just don;t think his skill set makes him out to be a great head coach on game day.

NodakPaul
08-13-2009, 12:16 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


Tice was given less to work with from a staff point of view.
I agree.
But that doesn't somehow mean that he would have done any better if he had been given more.
Red hired the cheapest help available, and that INCLUDED Tice.
You get what you pay for.

If you don't like Childress - that is fine.
But making Tice out to be a LOT more than he ever was as a head coach just to justify your dislike of Childress is ridiculous.
Resources or not, Childress has put together a better team and taken it farther in 3 years than Tice ever did.
And unlike Tice's up and down years, Childress has improved each year.

You want Tice, you can have him.
He would probably make a great high school coach.
I'll take Childress for the Vikings though.


You can really look at it two ways.

Yes, Childress has possibly put together a better staff in some regards(Although I would argue that Linehan is better than Bevell and with the performance of the special teams last year I find it hard to argue that we had any advantage there.) But the question does remain, would Childress have been able to hire the same quality staff if he were coaching for Red instead of Wilf. I think it is very safe to say no.

And Childress has been given a great amount of FA money to improve the roster so far. When we get to the point where he starts to lose some core guys, his record will certainly fall. In fact, had he not been given the money to sign key guys like Hutch, CT, Williams, Allen, Shank, Berrian etc, there is no way in hell we would have 10 wins last season. Had Tice been given the chance to bring in guys of similar caliber he would have had a better record. Tice inherited a team with a defense that was decimated during the Green era. Green inherited a team with the best defense in the league and dismantled it to build the offense. Tice was using the limited funds he was given to build the defense as much as possible while trying to maintain an offense in spite of an owner who sent the best player in the league to the Raiders.How would Childress have done last year if Wilf had sent Adrian Peterson to the Raiders for a flunkie LB and a draft pick?


At any rate as I have stated, I like Childress for his organization and the personnel moves he has made the past 2 years(the 1st year was a disaster with the exception of Hutch and CT) And I think he could be a great F.O guy. I just don;t think his skill set makes him out to be a great head coach on game day.


There is no way of knowing the part in read, and to be honest, I don't think it is true anyway.

Childress may have Hutch, CT, Williams, Allen, Shank, Berrian, but Tice had Culpepper, Moss, Chavous, a healthy Udeze, MeMo, Marcus Robinson, Koren Robinson, both Williamses, Smoot, etc.
It isn't like he had a rag tag bunch of Div 2 players.
They just looked like it under Tice's leadership.

I can concede that Childress would make a better personnel guy than a head coach, and I think his future probably lies somewhere in that.
But just because Childress isn't a great head coach doesn't mean that Tice was better.
There is nothing to support the idea that Tice was better at anything except for throwing the red flag 35 yards...

NodakPaul
08-13-2009, 12:18 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:








chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


If the Bears had bothered to show up for Week 17, it would have been 8-8, not 9-7.

=Z=


If the Giants had bothered to show up for week 17, we would be 9-7, not 10-6.
I guess that means we're still a joke?


I thought all the TJack supporters claimed that the Giants brought everything to the table that game, and it was TJack's brilliant 4th quarter drive that led us to victory (oh yeah, and little kick by longwell too). ;)

Caine
08-13-2009, 04:24 PM
"Formo" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:










chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


This was more than just on-the-field success.
Tice's/Red's team, off-the-field, was in fact, a joke.
The laughing stock of the NFL along with the Bungles.

On-the-field..
Lets stop and evaluate this a bit..
When the new ownership/coaching staff/FO took control, did they:
A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper)
B)develop new offense and defense schemes.
C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down.
D)all of the above.

Anytime a team goes through the complete overhaul of schemes, leadership, front office personel, etc, you can almost guarantee a lack of on-the-field production when compared to prior years' teams.

Little known fact:
Since the hiring of Chilly as HC, the Vikings record has improved yearly by 2 wins a year.


Really?
You’re Still trying to hang Tice to prove Chiller is the better coach?
Get real.

During his tenure, Tice was not allowed to hire coaches.
When Billick left (because Red *buggers beagles* McCombs wouldn’t renew his contract), Tice was told to promote from within…and Steve Loney wound up as OC.
Several of Tices coaches were pulling double duty because Red *gargles goats* McCombs wouldn’t hire anyone to fill the vacancies.

As far as Free Agents go…the ONLY guy I recall being brought in was Antoine Winfield.
Red *pokes poodles* McCombs wouldn’t allow Tice to go after FA’s, which is why we always had so much cap room.

Wilf got here, watched Tice for one year, fired him, hired Chiller, and THEN opened the checkbook.

Chiller has a coaching staff almost double the size of Tice’s…because Wilf bankrolls it.
Chiller has brought in numerous FA’s and has signed almost everyone he wanted…because Wilf bankrolls it.

See the difference?
If not, think about it like this.
You and I have to each build a house.
I have access to unlimited labor, equipment,
and resources…and you can use whatever is in your back yard.
Who will build the better house?

The point here is that Tice, as much as he is maligned, did FAR more with FAR less than Chiller has done.
There is no doubt in my mind that had Tice been given access to the resources Chiller has, he would have put together a winning franchise in less time because Tice recognized something about himself that Chiller hasn’t figured out.
Tice knew that he didn’t know it all.
That’s why he wanted to keep Billick as OC.
Meanwhile, Chiller keeps Bevell around…his version of Steve Loney.

I’ll take Tice over Chiller ANY day.

Caine



Ahhh..
here we go...

I'd take the Chiller, with less on-the-field over Tice, with more on-the-field.

I already stated this:
Tice's/Red's team, whether you like it or not, was a J-O-K-E off-the-field.
Which was my whole point.
I'm not even looking at the on-the-field results as far as that statement is concerned.

I concede your point.
Tice was given (if we can say that) a LOT less to work with when compared to Chilly.
And it's VERY debatable to say that Tice/Chilly was the better coach, when analyzing each coaches situation.
I still say, though, that Tice wouldn't have done better if he took the Vikes through the change that Chilly did.. ESPECIALLY TO CHANGE THEIR PR IMAGE (if Tice was capable of that...)..
A change that involved the 3 points in my previous post that you quoted.

I'm not hanging Tice to prove Chilly is the better coach.
I'm hanging Tice because his teams' PR image sucked, which in turn embarrasses me as a fan.
Chilly/Wilf came in and help clean that image up.


Tice was saddled with the players he had.
With no ability to hire coaches or sign FA's, how was Tice to make a change in the "character" of the team?

Short answer:
He couldn’t.

Chiller, meanwhile, was given an open checkbook on BOTH counts, and has the overwhelming support of the owner to clean up the image.


When comparing the two, you have to ask yourself if Tice had any type of control over the 3 points you originally posted.

A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper) = He couldn’t. He wasn’t allowed to go after FA’s, and Culpepper, to be fair, wasn’t the character issue the Vikings had.
It was guys like Smoot and McKinnie .
And ironically, the idea of bringing Culpepper back here has been floated about due to Chiller's inability to replace him with anythng better...

B)develop new offense and defense schemes. = With whom?
He couldn’t
hire an OC, Red *Fornicates with fieldmice* McCombs wouldn’t LET him hire an OC.
Yet the schemes Tice had in place were decent schemes.
Ironically, the scheme that Chiller has put in place (He does the Offense, Frazier the Defense) has been less than impressive.
And absent Adrian Peterson would have been abominable the past 2 years as well.

C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down. = Again, Tice was saddled with the owner implied in this comment.
Tice had to deal with the "piss poor PR" as well, but he had no power to do anything about it due to the owner.

So my point is that the "Character" of the team that Tice was saddled with was a direct reflection of the Owner at the time, not of Tice himself.
To try and impeach Tice for things he could not control or influence is simply unfair and inaccurate.
If you want to ding him on scalping, fine.
But the rest of the character issues hang on the doorstep of Red *penetrates pandas* McCombs.


Caine

C Mac D
08-13-2009, 04:27 PM
Childress has also not released the names of the players sitting out of Friday's game (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-88/Farewell-Bourbonnais--on-to-Indy.html) (the only NFC North coach not to do so) and has not chosen a starting QB, leading to a testy last day of practice.

Fire Childress.

Formo
08-13-2009, 04:47 PM
"Caine" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"Formo" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:












chilly did a decent job in turning this team from a joke to a pretender. its an upgrade from being a joke.
What are you talkinga bout? We were legitimate pretenders in tice's last couple of years here.




we were pretenders to somewhat of a threat with tice when we had a healthy moss and pepp. but when randy left and pepp couldnt do crap


Really?
Moss's last year we were 8-8, made the playoffs, the year after a Mossless vikings went 9-7.
That's not turning to crap.


He's saying that Pepp without Moss turned to crap.
And at that point, the team turned into a joke (not my words, BTW).
I can see that, but with Brad Johnson taking over for Pepp during that season, changed the way the Vikings played that year.
So, while they were a joke prior to and during that Carolina game, they turned things around.

Now, I'm not saying Chilly > Tice..
because they had completely different personal, management, and owners.

The point of the recent posts is how Chilly turned the Vikings from a joke in the PR department into a outstanding group of TEAMMATES (even with the loss of a huge PR boost like Birk).

For that, I give Chilly his props.
Now, lets see him work with the talent he has, versus forcing talent to work within the 'KAO'..


if by joke, you mean improvement, then you're right.
Turning from 9-7 to 6-10 is a joke.


This was more than just on-the-field success.
Tice's/Red's team, off-the-field, was in fact, a joke.
The laughing stock of the NFL along with the Bungles.

On-the-field..
Lets stop and evaluate this a bit..
When the new ownership/coaching staff/FO took control, did they:
A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper)
B)develop new offense and defense schemes.
C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down.
D)all of the above.

Anytime a team goes through the complete overhaul of schemes, leadership, front office personel, etc, you can almost guarantee a lack of on-the-field production when compared to prior years' teams.

Little known fact:
Since the hiring of Chilly as HC, the Vikings record has improved yearly by 2 wins a year.


Really?
You’re Still trying to hang Tice to prove Chiller is the better coach?
Get real.

During his tenure, Tice was not allowed to hire coaches.
When Billick left (because Red *buggers beagles* McCombs wouldn’t renew his contract), Tice was told to promote from within…and Steve Loney wound up as OC.
Several of Tices coaches were pulling double duty because Red *gargles goats* McCombs wouldn’t hire anyone to fill the vacancies.

As far as Free Agents go…the ONLY guy I recall being brought in was Antoine Winfield.
Red *pokes poodles* McCombs wouldn’t allow Tice to go after FA’s, which is why we always had so much cap room.

Wilf got here, watched Tice for one year, fired him, hired Chiller, and THEN opened the checkbook.

Chiller has a coaching staff almost double the size of Tice’s…because Wilf bankrolls it.
Chiller has brought in numerous FA’s and has signed almost everyone he wanted…because Wilf bankrolls it.

See the difference?
If not, think about it like this.
You and I have to each build a house.
I have access to unlimited labor, equipment,
and resources…and you can use whatever is in your back yard.
Who will build the better house?

The point here is that Tice, as much as he is maligned, did FAR more with FAR less than Chiller has done.
There is no doubt in my mind that had Tice been given access to the resources Chiller has, he would have put together a winning franchise in less time because Tice recognized something about himself that Chiller hasn’t figured out.
Tice knew that he didn’t know it all.
That’s why he wanted to keep Billick as OC.
Meanwhile, Chiller keeps Bevell around…his version of Steve Loney.

I’ll take Tice over Chiller ANY day.

Caine



Ahhh..
here we go...

I'd take the Chiller, with less on-the-field over Tice, with more on-the-field.

I already stated this:
Tice's/Red's team, whether you like it or not, was a J-O-K-E off-the-field.
Which was my whole point.
I'm not even looking at the on-the-field results as far as that statement is concerned.

I concede your point.
Tice was given (if we can say that) a LOT less to work with when compared to Chilly.
And it's VERY debatable to say that Tice/Chilly was the better coach, when analyzing each coaches situation.
I still say, though, that Tice wouldn't have done better if he took the Vikes through the change that Chilly did.. ESPECIALLY TO CHANGE THEIR PR IMAGE (if Tice was capable of that...)..
A change that involved the 3 points in my previous post that you quoted.

I'm not hanging Tice to prove Chilly is the better coach.
I'm hanging Tice because his teams' PR image sucked, which in turn embarrasses me as a fan.
Chilly/Wilf came in and help clean that image up.


Tice was saddled with the players he had.
With no ability to hire coaches or sign FA's, how was Tice to make a change in the "character" of the team?

Short answer:
He couldn’t.

Chiller, meanwhile, was given an open checkbook on BOTH counts, and has the overwhelming support of the owner to clean up the image.


When comparing the two, you have to ask yourself if Tice had any type of control over the 3 points you originally posted.

A)replace the teams on-field 'leaders'. (i.e. Pepper) = He couldn’t. He wasn’t allowed to go after FA’s, and Culpepper, to be fair, wasn’t the character issue the Vikings had.
It was guys like Smoot and McKinnie .
And ironically, the idea of bringing Culpepper back here has been floated about due to Chiller's inability to replace him with anythng better...

B)develop new offense and defense schemes. = With whom?
He couldn’t
hire an OC, Red *Fornicates with fieldmice* McCombs wouldn’t LET him hire an OC.
Yet the schemes Tice had in place were decent schemes.
Ironically, the scheme that Chiller has put in place (He does the Offense, Frazier the Defense) has been less than impressive.
And absent Adrian Peterson would have been abominable the past 2 years as well.

C)had to deal with the piss-poor PR the team had, thanks to the previous ownership on down. = Again, Tice was saddled with the owner implied in this comment.
Tice had to deal with the "piss poor PR" as well, but he had no power to do anything about it due to the owner.

So my point is that the "Character" of the team that Tice was saddled with was a direct reflection of the Owner at the time, not of Tice himself.
To try and impeach Tice for things he could not control or influence is simply unfair and inaccurate.
If you want to ding him on scalping, fine.
But the rest of the character issues hang on the doorstep of Red *penetrates pandas* McCombs.


Caine


You are un-shackling Tice from Red, and placing the full blame on Red.
I'm giving both 'toons' the responsibility.
There's no way to prove that Tice wouldn't have had character issues if it wasn't for Red.
But, the fact still remains, and I quote myself:
Formo wrote:

Tice's/Red's team, off-the-field, was in fact, a joke.

The bolded/colored is the key part.
I even restated that point in my last post.
Whether Tice wanted that team or not..
he was still it's head coach.

Look, I agree, Red ruined this team the longer he had ownership.
But it wasn't all his doing.

snowinapril
08-13-2009, 05:02 PM
"C" wrote:


Childress has also not released the names of the players sitting out of Friday's game (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-88/Farewell-Bourbonnais--on-to-Indy.html) (the only NFC North coach not to do so) and has not chosen a starting QB, leading to a testy last day of practice.

Fire Childress.


If it wasn't for betting, and having to list injuries for the regular season games, coaches wouldn't do it.
Why list your weaknesses if you don't have to?

But.................... The list you saw wasn't from the coaches of any team, the were a list of names collected from injuries reported by the media, probably injuries that they saw and asked about at the PCs.

From the link above:

(This list is based on injury information culled from local media reports. Coaches may choose to hold out some players who are healthy.)

PackSux!
08-13-2009, 06:03 PM
"C" wrote:


Childress has also not released the names of the players sitting out of Friday's game (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-88/Farewell-Bourbonnais--on-to-Indy.html) (the only NFC North coach not to do so) and has not chosen a starting QB, leading to a testy last day of practice.

Fire Childress.


Now that you totally pulled out of your ass.

Did you not read any articles and player quotes on what happened that last day?

The players said they got testy with each other after two defensive backs sandwiched Percy harvin and almost injured him when they were not even supposed to be tackling.

Get your facts straight Cmac, just like you tell others to do.

C Mac D
08-13-2009, 06:04 PM
"PackSux!" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Childress has also not released the names of the players sitting out of Friday's game (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-88/Farewell-Bourbonnais--on-to-Indy.html) (the only NFC North coach not to do so) and has not chosen a starting QB, leading to a testy last day of practice.

Fire Childress.


Now that you totally pulled out of your ass.


Did you not read any articles and player quotes on what happened that last day?

The players said they got testy with each other after two defensive backs sandwiched Percy harvin and almost injured him when they were not even supposed to be tackling.

Get your facts straight Cmac, just like you tell others to do.


I'm not denying I pulled that out of my ass, settle down.

I will find any and all reason to blame Childress for anything. Did you not know this already?

I'll try to be more clear about this in the future.

Formo
08-13-2009, 06:13 PM
"C" wrote:


"PackSux!" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Childress has also not released the names of the players sitting out of Friday's game (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-88/Farewell-Bourbonnais--on-to-Indy.html) (the only NFC North coach not to do so) and has not chosen a starting QB, leading to a testy last day of practice.

Fire Childress.


Now that you totally pulled out of your ass.


Did you not read any articles and player quotes on what happened that last day?

The players said they got testy with each other after two defensive backs sandwiched Percy harvin and almost injured him when they were not even supposed to be tackling.

Get your facts straight Cmac, just like you tell others to do.


I'm not denying I pulled that out of my ass, settle down.

I will find any and all reason to blame Childress for anything. Did you not know this already?

I'll try to be more clear about this in the future.


Funny thing is..
I knew that.

C Mac D
08-13-2009, 06:15 PM
Chilly killed 2-Pac

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2630/chillyrapper.png

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2009, 06:25 PM
"C" wrote:


Childress has also not released the names of the players sitting out of Friday's game (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-88/Farewell-Bourbonnais--on-to-Indy.html) (the only NFC North coach not to do so) and has not chosen a starting QB


How is that a bad thing?

PackSux!
08-13-2009, 08:08 PM
"C" wrote:


"PackSux!" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Childress has also not released the names of the players sitting out of Friday's game (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-88/Farewell-Bourbonnais--on-to-Indy.html) (the only NFC North coach not to do so) and has not chosen a starting QB, leading to a testy last day of practice.

Fire Childress.


Now that you totally pulled out of your jiggly butt.


Did you not read any articles and player quotes on what happened that last day?

The players said they got testy with each other after two defensive backs sandwiched Percy harvin and almost injured him when they were not even supposed to be tackling.

Get your facts straight Cmac, just like you tell others to do.


I'm not denying I pulled that out of my jiggly butt, settle down.

I will find any and all reason to blame Childress for anything. Did you not know this already?

I'll try to be more clear about this in the future.


My bad, I had thought you changed.
;D