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jorgie
01-06-2009, 07:25 PM
According to the PP today Matt Birk, 6 time Pro Bowler and probably the best center in the NFL doesn't get along well with Brad Childress.

I think we all know what that means. :'(

BadlandsVikings
01-06-2009, 07:28 PM
we need to keep him and Jimmy K

Prophet
01-06-2009, 07:28 PM
"jorgie" wrote:


According to the PP today Matt Birk, 6 time Pro Bowler and probably the best center in the NFL doesn't get along well with Brad Childress.

I think we all know what that means. :'(


The ballboy is keeping busy?

V4L
01-06-2009, 07:31 PM
Birk needs to pick up on pre snap reads

Marrdro
01-06-2009, 07:31 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"jorgie" wrote:


According to the PP today Matt Birk, 6 time Pro Bowler and probably the best center in the NFL doesn't get along well with Brad Childress.

I think we all know what that means. :'(


The ballboy is keeping busy?

LOL, yet another attempt at trying to find some crack in the locker room between the HC and the players.

I for one will be watching with interest what Matty B says when/if he isn't with the Vikes next year.
He is a touch of class and always has been. I bet him and the Chiller see things about the same.

Only issue I think that could be taken with a grain of salt/hardship was his choice not to workout with the team during the offseason in some of the selected "opportunities" that were presented.

Mr-holland
01-06-2009, 07:31 PM
It's easy, if he demands a whole lot of money he's signing his own death sentence. He hasn't been spectacular this year but wants to be resigned. What do you do with old players who are declining and want big time money? We should not let him go if his replacement isn't ready but he's running his own ass out of town should he demand a load of money.

ejmat
01-06-2009, 07:38 PM
"jorgie" wrote:


According to the PP today Matt Birk, 6 time Pro Bowler and probably the best center in the NFL doesn't get along well with Brad Childress.

I think we all know what that means. :'(


"Best Center in the NFL"?
I guess that's why he made the probowl this year.
He's a little past his prime to be considered the best in the NFL

PackSux!
01-06-2009, 07:42 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"jorgie" wrote:


According to the PP today Matt Birk, 6 time Pro Bowler and probably the best center in the NFL doesn't get along well with Brad Childress.

I think we all know what that means. :'(


The ballboy is keeping busy?

LOL, yet another attempt at trying to find some crack in the locker room between the HC and the players.

I for one will be watching with interest what Matty B says when/if he isn't with the Vikes next year.
He is a touch of class and always has been. I bet him and the Chiller see things about the same.

Only issue I think that could be taken with a grain of salt/hardship was his choice not to workout with the team during the offseason in some of the selected "opportunities" that were presented.


Birk decided to work out with the Superstar instead of the team is the only thing i have ever heard of Birk and Childress butting heads on.
I listen to the Powertrip every morning and I remember Mike talking about lifting with birk before the season and that Childress didnt really like that.

I would like to see Birk back, he has a good relationship with hutch also.

ItalianStallion
01-06-2009, 07:55 PM
Birk's level of play has really fallen off these past couple years, especially this year.
I think he was a great player, but it's possible he's run his course with the team.
Same goes for Sharper.
I wouldn't expect either to be re-signed.

Hopefully Tyrell Johnson can develop into a great player, but I'm a little more worried about our situation on the O-line.

PurplePowerPunch
01-06-2009, 08:24 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Birk's level of play has really fallen off these past couple years, especially this year.
I think he was a great player, but it's possible he's run his course with the team.
Same goes for Sharper.
I wouldn't expect either to be re-signed.

Hopefully Tyrell Johnson can develop into a great player, but I'm a little more worried about our situation on the O-line.


Yeah, cause he was all out of position against the Eagles. Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!

Gdubs1771
01-06-2009, 09:32 PM
He may have been good, but he didnt rly stand out this year.

ultravikingfan
01-06-2009, 09:47 PM
"Gdubs1771" wrote:


He may have been good, but he didnt rly stand out this year.


Not many Centers do stand out unless the mess up.

PackSux!
01-06-2009, 10:35 PM
"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Birk's level of play has really fallen off these past couple years, especially this year.
I think he was a great player, but it's possible he's run his course with the team.
Same goes for Sharper.
I wouldn't expect either to be re-signed.

Hopefully Tyrell Johnson can develop into a great player, but I'm a little more worried about our situation on the O-line.


Yeah, cause he was all out of position against the Eagles. Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!


You need to remember that when Johnson was starting he was filling in for Williams and not Sharper.
Of course Johnson is going to get picked on when he had to come into replace Sharper, its a different position then what he had been playing.

NaughtyWord
01-07-2009, 12:49 AM
Call me crazy, but I'm convinced he screwed up that snap purposefully since he didn't get his contract extension.

Rambro
01-07-2009, 12:58 AM
"NaughtyWord" wrote:


Call me crazy, but I'm convinced he screwed up that snap purposefully since he didn't get his contract extension.


Co-sign, that snap barely left the ground.

Bretto007
01-07-2009, 01:20 AM
Anyone else notice that none of the players seem to get along with coach Childress.
Not even Birk, one of the most popular guys in and out of the locker room.
Damn, what the hell is wrong with Childress that he rubs everyone the wrong way?

Anyone remember the time Paul Allen had Childress on air and the two of the them got into it?
Childress said something about Paul only being out for awards and trying to make a name for himself.
I thought that showed how little class Childress has.

ultravikingfan
01-07-2009, 04:43 AM
"Bretto007" wrote:


Anyone else notice that none of the players seem to get along with coach Childress.
Not even Birk, one of the most popular guys in and out of the locker room.
Damn, what the hell is wrong with Childress that he rubs everyone the wrong way?

Anyone remember the time Paul Allen had Childress on air and the two of the them got into it?
Childress said something about Paul only being out for awards and trying to make a name for himself.
I thought that showed how little class Childress has.


So, you know for a fact that none of the players get along with Chiller?

I wish I had your contacts.

Bretto007
01-07-2009, 05:21 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Bretto007" wrote:


Anyone else notice that none of the players seem to get along with coach Childress.
Not even Birk, one of the most popular guys in and out of the locker room.
gol 'darnit, what the hell is wrong with Childress that he rubs everyone the wrong way?

Anyone remember the time Paul Allen had Childress on air and the two of the them got into it?
Childress said something about Paul only being out for awards and trying to make a name for himself.
I thought that showed how little class Childress has.


So, you know for a fact that none of the players get along with Chiller?

I wish I had your contacts.


Its a figure of speech.
Don't be a semantics nazi.
The impression Childress has made is that he is not a very easy person to get along with.
There are more examples proving this point then not.
Whether a person is a fan of his coaching or not it is commonly agreed that Childress rubs alot of people the wrong way.
Which was the whole point of my post.

singersp
01-07-2009, 06:29 AM
"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:

Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!


I'm really looking forward to drastic changes on the line (Birk) & (Cook) & waiting yet another 3-5 years for the o-line to gel & grasp the complicated blocking scheme.

Marrdro
01-07-2009, 07:20 AM
"Bretto007" wrote:


Anyone else notice that none of the players seem to get along with coach Childress.
Not even Birk, one of the most popular guys in and out of the locker room.
gol 'darnit, what the hell is wrong with Childress that he rubs everyone the wrong way?

Anyone remember the time Paul Allen had Childress on air and the two of the them got into it?
Childress said something about Paul only being out for awards and trying to make a name for himself.
I thought that showed how little class Childress has.

None?

I bet Anthony Herrera gets along with him fine.
JA seems to support him especially when Yutz fans boo/chant things against him during games.....

Comeon my friend.
Gotta bring something better than that.

singersp
01-07-2009, 07:21 AM
Birk's last game with Vikings? (http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?z=22&a=378409)

1/5/2009 9:55:02 AM

By Guy N. Limbeck
Post-Bulletin, Rochester MN


MINNEAPOLIS -- After Sunday's playoff loss to Philadelphia, Vikings center Matt Birk met with family members to take a picture on the Metrodome field.....

Marrdro
01-07-2009, 07:22 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:

Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!


I'm really looking forward to drastic changes on the line (Birk) & (Cook) & waiting yet another 3-5 years for the o-line to gel & grasp the complicated blocking scheme.

I wish I could find that quote again.
You keep using it out of context.
He said it took 5 years to install.
Of course after you have a line doing it and you replace a guy or two it doesn't re-take 3-5 more years.

Quit with the crazy talk.

Besides, the ZB isn't the issue with this OL and you know it.
Its our pass blocking that is a issue.

singersp
01-07-2009, 07:28 AM
"jorgie" wrote:


According to the PP today Matt Birk, 6 time Pro Bowler and probably the best center in the NFL doesn't get along well with Brad Childress.

I think we all know what that means. :'(


When you cite an article, it is always best to include the portion of the article your are referring to & then providing the link to that article;


That Birk and Vikings coach Brad Childress do not have an ideal player-coach relationship is not a secret within the organization, yet neither has publicly aired the nature of their issues.

Uncertainty sets in for Darren Sharper, Matt Birk and Minnesota Vikings' other free agents (http://www.twincities.com/ci_11372707?source=most_viewed)

Vikings haven't tipped their hand regarding Birk's and Sharper's status

By Rick Alonzo and Sean Jensen
Pioneer Press

Posted: 01/05/2009 12:01:00 AM CST

ejmat
01-07-2009, 08:42 AM
"Bretto007" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Bretto007" wrote:


Anyone else notice that none of the players seem to get along with coach Childress.
Not even Birk, one of the most popular guys in and out of the locker room.
gol 'darnit, what the hell is wrong with Childress that he rubs everyone the wrong way?

Anyone remember the time Paul Allen had Childress on air and the two of the them got into it?
Childress said something about Paul only being out for awards and trying to make a name for himself.
I thought that showed how little class Childress has.


So, you know for a fact that none of the players get along with Chiller?

I wish I had your contacts.


Its a figure of speech.
Don't be a semantics nazi.
The impression Childress has made is that he is not a very easy person to get along with.
There are more examples proving this point then not.
Whether a person is a fan of his coaching or not it is commonly agreed that Childress rubs alot of people the wrong way.
Which was the whole point of my post.



It wasn't a figure of speech.
You stated, "Anyone else notice that none of the players seem to get along with coach Childress"
Then you stated, "gol 'darnit, what the hell is wrong with Childress that he rubs everyone the wrong way?"

What you failed to mention is all the players currently on the team that are supporting him to no end.
Look at AP, JA, AW just to name a few.
Birk's circumstance is speculation right now but I do believe there is some truth to it.
I don't think Childress is very happy he works out away from the team and therefore they may be budding heads.
But to say none or everyone is not a figure of speech and it's ridiculous trying to prove your belief that Childress isn't good for the team.
I think Wilf would see that and if it were the case changes would have been made a long time ago.

kevoncox
01-07-2009, 10:32 AM
Let see,
Our team fails to make it to the Divisonal round in 05. What do we do? Blame the pathetic defense we have or the 5 time pro bowl WR on our Roster and run him out of town?

Our team fail to make the Divisonal Round in 09 What do we do, Blame the erratic QB or the 7 time Pro Bowl Center and run him out of town?

What is it whit this fan base? Do you know why our O line sucks in passing downs? It's because our Offense sucks. We ahve a superstar running back that we have to put on the sidelines because the coach can't figure out how to use him as a decoy/reciver and nullifies any potential playaction we could have used as trickery. Our WRs corp is a joke( minus BB and Wade) and Our Qb situation can be compared to taking your Mom or Sister to the Prom( go with sis, her breast don't sag
::))Our Oline has to make an absurd amount of reads and checks because no one respects our QB. No one thinks he can get the ball accuratly to his WRs.

If you want to blame Birk go right ahead. However, let me ask you this. Do you trust Childress and Co. has found a suitable replacement for Birk after all the thrash, they have brought in in the past 3 years? Heck we signed a FB to replace the " aging vet" Richardson and he played like Thrash(Lets forget about the fact that he fooled them into signing him). Thi sis the same FO that thought they can turn Ryan Cook into a RT. The same FO that brought us the TJ show and Billy McMullen. The same Fo that signed Hicks to return kicks. I could go on and I'm sure alot of you will counter that they Drafted a sure thing in AD. I don't trust anything they do or say. Loosing Sharper and Birk will cause a Randy Moss like tailspin for this franchise.

bleedpurple
01-07-2009, 10:39 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Let see,
Our team fails to make it to the Divisonal round in 05. What do we do? Blame the pathetic defense we have or the 5 time pro bowl WR on our Roster and run him out of town?

Our team fail to make the Divisonal Round in 09 What do we do, Blame the erratic QB or the 7 time Pro Bowl Center and run him out of town?

What is it whit this fan base? Do you know why our O line sucks in passing downs? It's because our Offense sucks. We ahve a superstar running back that we have to put on the sidelines because the coach can't figure out how to use him as a decoy/reciver and nullifies any potential playaction we could have used as trickery. Our WRs corp is a joke( minus BB and Wade) and Our Qb situation can be compared to taking your Mom or Sister to the Prom( go with sis, her breast don't sag
::))Our Oline has to make an absurd amount of reads and checks because no one respects our QB. No one thinks he can get the ball accuratly to his WRs.

If you want to blame Birk go right ahead. However, let me ask you this. Do you trust Childress and Co. has found a suitable replacement for Birk after all the thrash, they have brought in in the past 3 years? Heck we signed a FB to replace the " aging vet" Richardson and he played like Thrash(Lets forget about the fact that he fooled them into signing him). Thi sis the same FO that thought they can turn Ryan Cook into a RT. The same FO that brought us the TJ show and Billy McMullen. The same Fo that signed Hicks to return kicks. I could go on and I'm sure alot of you will counter that they Drafted a sure thing in AD. I don't trust anything they do or say. Loosing Sharper and Birk will cause a Randy Moss like tailspin for this franchise.


I see your point..!! and it's a good one... I'm all for keeping both of them!... AT A GOOD PRICE.! for a year or two.. but this will be there last contract and i'm sure each of them will want good money for what they did not for what they will do... and i'm not sure it will cause a Moss like tailspin.. I think that's a bit of a reach...

but i think it will set the defense and offensive line back a bit, unless they bring in good vets, and not replace from within.. I just don't see tyrell being ready.. and for some reason, the secondary looked a lot more fluid with sharper back there vs. tyrell... with the loss of Birk who knows?.. pass blocking can't get anyw worse can it??

You know what??..
I wonder if the switch to zone blocking is helping our run game, but hurting our pass game, since the way you block is soo much different!... and our o-line can't make the switch between pass downs and run downs on a consistent basis... what do you think?.. just a theory... it seems Houston may have the same problem... Denver? sometimes...

kevoncox
01-07-2009, 10:45 AM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Let see,
Our team fails to make it to the Divisonal round in 05. What do we do? Blame the pathetic defense we have or the 5 time pro bowl WR on our Roster and run him out of town?

Our team fail to make the Divisonal Round in 09 What do we do, Blame the erratic QB or the 7 time Pro Bowl Center and run him out of town?

What is it whit this fan base? Do you know why our O line sucks in passing downs? It's because our Offense sucks. We ahve a superstar running back that we have to put on the sidelines because the coach can't figure out how to use him as a decoy/reciver and nullifies any potential playaction we could have used as trickery. Our WRs corp is a joke( minus BB and Wade) and Our Qb situation can be compared to taking your Mom or Sister to the Prom( go with sis, her breast don't sag
::))Our Oline has to make an absurd amount of reads and checks because no one respects our QB. No one thinks he can get the ball accuratly to his WRs.

If you want to blame Birk go right ahead. However, let me ask you this. Do you trust Childress and Co. has found a suitable replacement for Birk after all the thrash, they have brought in in the past 3 years? Heck we signed a FB to replace the " aging vet" Richardson and he played like Thrash(Lets forget about the fact that he fooled them into signing him). Thi sis the same FO that thought they can turn Ryan Cook into a RT. The same FO that brought us the TJ show and Billy McMullen. The same Fo that signed Hicks to return kicks. I could go on and I'm sure alot of you will counter that they Drafted a sure thing in AD. I don't trust anything they do or say. Loosing Sharper and Birk will cause a Randy Moss like tailspin for this franchise.


I see your point..!! and it's a good one... I'm all for keeping both of them!... AT A GOOD PRICE.! for a year or two.. but this will be there last contract and i'm sure each of them will want good money for what they did not for what they will do... and i'm not sure it will cause a Moss like tailspin.. I think that's a bit of a reach...

but i think it will set the defense and offensive line back a bit, unless they bring in good vets, and not replace from within.. I just don't see tyrell being ready.. and for some reason, the secondary looked a lot more fluid with sharper back there vs. tyrell... with the loss of Birk who knows?.. pass blocking can't get anyw worse can it??

You know what??..
I wonder if the switch to zone blocking is helping our run game, but hurting our pass game, since the way you block is soo much different!... and our o-line can't make the switch between pass downs and run downs on a consistent basis... what do you think?.. just a theory... it seems Houston may have the same problem... Denver? sometimes...


It's just absurd the negativity Birk gets.
Maybe if we didn't have Ryan " I get beat on every play" Cook starting then a TE could be used more effectively and that would reduce the LBs blitzing and Birk wouldn't have to try and pick up 2 Lbs up his Gap. I don't hear people crying fro Hutch to get the Axe and he is worst in Pass blocking that Birk.

ejmat
01-07-2009, 10:52 AM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Let see,
Our team fails to make it to the Divisonal round in 05. What do we do? Blame the pathetic defense we have or the 5 time pro bowl WR on our Roster and run him out of town?

Our team fail to make the Divisonal Round in 09 What do we do, Blame the erratic QB or the 7 time Pro Bowl Center and run him out of town?

What is it whit this fan base? Do you know why our O line sucks in passing downs? It's because our Offense sucks. We ahve a superstar running back that we have to put on the sidelines because the coach can't figure out how to use him as a decoy/reciver and nullifies any potential playaction we could have used as trickery. Our WRs corp is a joke( minus BB and Wade) and Our Qb situation can be compared to taking your Mom or Sister to the Prom( go with sis, her breast don't sag
::))Our Oline has to make an absurd amount of reads and checks because no one respects our QB. No one thinks he can get the ball accuratly to his WRs.

If you want to blame Birk go right ahead. However, let me ask you this. Do you trust Childress and Co. has found a suitable replacement for Birk after all the thrash, they have brought in in the past 3 years? Heck we signed a FB to replace the " aging vet" Richardson and he played like Thrash(Lets forget about the fact that he fooled them into signing him). Thi sis the same FO that thought they can turn Ryan Cook into a RT. The same FO that brought us the TJ show and Billy McMullen. The same Fo that signed Hicks to return kicks. I could go on and I'm sure alot of you will counter that they Drafted a sure thing in AD. I don't trust anything they do or say. Loosing Sharper and Birk will cause a Randy Moss like tailspin for this franchise.


I see your point..!! and it's a good one... I'm all for keeping both of them!... AT A GOOD PRICE.! for a year or two.. but this will be there last contract and i'm sure each of them will want good money for what they did not for what they will do... and i'm not sure it will cause a Moss like tailspin.. I think that's a bit of a reach...

but i think it will set the defense and offensive line back a bit, unless they bring in good vets, and not replace from within.. I just don't see tyrell being ready.. and for some reason, the secondary looked a lot more fluid with sharper back there vs. tyrell... with the loss of Birk who knows?.. pass blocking can't get anyw worse can it??

You know what??..
I wonder if the switch to zone blocking is helping our run game, but hurting our pass game, since the way you block is soo much different!... and our o-line can't make the switch between pass downs and run downs on a consistent basis... what do you think?.. just a theory... it seems Houston may have the same problem... Denver? sometimes...


You do make some decent points Kevon but you also fail to mention to great players they have brought in such as CTaylor, Hutch, Berrain, Allen, MWilliams, Shiancoe, Leber, etc... They have also drafted AP, Griffin, Chadway that have all made terrific contributions.

You take the good with the bad and you aren't going to get 100% perfection when it comes to assessing talent.
I think your expectations are way to high since that is what you are implying.
It is true they have had some difficulties making some decisions but name me a coaching staff that doesn't.
I saw it a couple of times during the season and was very angry during the Eagles game.
But it doesn't mean this team isn't going in the right direction and you have to give credit where it's due whether you like or hate the guy.

ultravikingfan
01-07-2009, 11:05 AM
"Bretto007" wrote:


Anyone else notice that none of the players seem to get along with coach Childress.
Not even Birk, one of the most popular guys in and out of the locker room.
Damn, what the hell is wrong with Childress that he rubs everyone the wrong way?

Anyone remember the time Paul Allen had Childress on air and the two of the them got into it?
Childress said something about Paul only being out for awards and trying to make a name for himself.
I thought that showed how little class Childress has.


Don't make blind assumptions.
Fact is you and I know very little how the players feel about Chilly.

Marrdro
01-07-2009, 11:10 AM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


You know what??..
I wonder if the switch to zone blocking is helping our run game, but hurting our pass game, since the way you block is soo much different!... and our o-line can't make the switch between pass downs and run downs on a consistent basis... what do you think?.. just a theory... it seems Houston may have the same problem... Denver? sometimes...

I agree with you on this but with a different twist.

I think they do pretty good when they ZB but have troubles switching between that and Man-to-man blocking if they have a run play called.

I also attribute some of our issues to the line call that happens pre snap especially in Man-to-man blocking associated with the passing plays.

Watched Denver alot this year.
I don't think they have the same problem especially since they started to move to a bigger OLmen.

VikingMike
01-07-2009, 11:14 AM
Personally I'm a little tired of letting guys go before we have a proven guy to replace him...how many games have Sullivan and Cook played at center in the NFL? Maybe one or the other will be an all-Pro one day...who knows. But I definitely like the idea of competing for the job...duh.

I also don't like taking a guy from one position to start at another position...it's smart to have him learn other positions to add team depth, but these are experiments that we really can't afford to make.

bleedpurple
01-07-2009, 11:17 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


You know what??..
I wonder if the switch to zone blocking is helping our run game, but hurting our pass game, since the way you block is soo much different!... and our o-line can't make the switch between pass downs and run downs on a consistent basis... what do you think?.. just a theory... it seems Houston may have the same problem... Denver? sometimes...

I agree with you on this but with a different twist.

I think they do pretty good when they ZB but have troubles switching between that and Man-to-man blocking if they have a run play called.

I also attribute some of our issues to the line call that happens pre snap especially in Man-to-man blocking associated with the passing plays.

Watched Denver alot this year.
I don't think they have the same problem especially since they started to move to a bigger OLmen.


yeah, we're saying the same thing... i meant run to pass downs... it seems they focus so much on the zone blocking since that's what kind of run blocking scheme we have that they can't switch to pick up man blocking since zone blocking is a different concept... we all know they can block, but when you pass, it's more man on man versus an area your blocking in so that's why guys run in there free sometimes when the blitz is either delayed or disguised really well...

Prophet
01-07-2009, 11:19 AM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


You know what??..
I wonder if the switch to zone blocking is helping our run game, but hurting our pass game, since the way you block is soo much different!... and our o-line can't make the switch between pass downs and run downs on a consistent basis... what do you think?.. just a theory... it seems Houston may have the same problem... Denver? sometimes...

I agree with you on this but with a different twist.

I think they do pretty good when they ZB but have troubles switching between that and Man-to-man blocking if they have a run play called.

I also attribute some of our issues to the line call that happens pre snap especially in Man-to-man blocking associated with the passing plays.

Watched Denver alot this year.
I don't think they have the same problem especially since they started to move to a bigger OLmen.


yeah, we're saying the same thing... i meant run to pass downs... it seems they focus so much on the zone blocking since that's what kind of run blocking scheme we have that they can't switch to pick up man blocking since zone blocking is a different concept... we all know they can block, but when you pass, it's more man on man versus an area your blocking in so that's why guys run in there free sometimes when the blitz is either delayed or disguised really well...


lmao, there have been many threads on pp.o over the years where people are arguing for pages in a thread and they finally realize they are saying the same thing in a different way.
Too funny.

Marrdro
01-07-2009, 11:24 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Let see,
Our team fails to make it to the Divisonal round in 05. What do we do? Blame the pathetic defense we have or the 5 time pro bowl WR on our Roster and run him out of town?

Our team fail to make the Divisonal Round in 09 What do we do, Blame the erratic QB or the 7 time Pro Bowl Center and run him out of town?

What is it whit this fan base? Do you know why our O line sucks in passing downs? It's because our Offense sucks. We ahve a superstar running back that we have to put on the sidelines because the coach can't figure out how to use him as a decoy/reciver and nullifies any potential playaction we could have used as trickery. Our WRs corp is a joke( minus BB and Wade) and Our Qb situation can be compared to taking your Mom or Sister to the Prom( go with sis, her breast don't sag
::))Our Oline has to make an absurd amount of reads and checks because no one respects our QB. No one thinks he can get the ball accuratly to his WRs.

If you want to blame Birk go right ahead. However, let me ask you this. Do you trust Childress and Co. has found a suitable replacement for Birk after all the thrash, they have brought in in the past 3 years? Heck we signed a FB to replace the " aging vet" Richardson and he played like Thrash(Lets forget about the fact that he fooled them into signing him). Thi sis the same FO that thought they can turn Ryan Cook into a RT. The same FO that brought us the TJ show and Billy McMullen. The same Fo that signed Hicks to return kicks. I could go on and I'm sure alot of you will counter that they Drafted a sure thing in AD. I don't trust anything they do or say. Loosing Sharper and Birk will cause a Randy Moss like tailspin for this franchise.

So now you are touting that the Chiller scouts FA vet replacements for the team, briefs them to Spielman and company and then decides for all of the staff if the guy will work out?

I always thought that General George and his scouts filled that role, briefed Spielman and then that group brought some candidates to the Coaching staff for approval.

http://www.vikings.com/TeamFrontOfficeProfile_george_paton.aspx


(key note: I should give you bonus points cause you did use the FO in your post
;D)

Additionally, sounds like you are part of the crowd that didn't want to let some S's go last year without a crowd.
If my assumption is correct, you were probably sure our LBr corps was gonna be a weakness in 2006.
Hey, I probably have another assumption, I bet you though moving Birk from RT to C was gonna be dumb as well.

COJOMAY
01-07-2009, 11:28 AM
Enjoy your new team in Arizona Matt.

C Mac D
01-07-2009, 11:29 AM
I don't want to get rid of Birk, he's going to be in the Vikings' Ring of Fame someday.

I was disappointed to see that bad snap, but I think we lost the game long before that. Sullivan and Birk should split time at center next year, maybe Sullivan will get 90% of the snaps by the end of the year.

Having depth at C is never a bad thing.

Prophet
01-07-2009, 11:31 AM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


Enjoy your new team in Arizona Matt.


....and in this corner...the septarian comes out swinging with a Birk to the desert left hook.

Prophet
01-07-2009, 11:32 AM
"C" wrote:


I don't want to get rid of Birk, he's going to be in the Vikings' Ring of Fame someday.

I was disappointed to see that bad snap, but I think we lost the game long before that. Sullivan and Birk should split time at center next year, maybe Sullivan will get 90% of the snaps by the end of the year.

Having depth at C is never a bad thing.


I'm hoping that is exactly what happens, assuming he doesn't go to the chihuahua ranch.

Marrdro
01-07-2009, 11:37 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


You know what??..
I wonder if the switch to zone blocking is helping our run game, but hurting our pass game, since the way you block is soo much different!... and our o-line can't make the switch between pass downs and run downs on a consistent basis... what do you think?.. just a theory... it seems Houston may have the same problem... Denver? sometimes...

I agree with you on this but with a different twist.

I think they do pretty good when they ZB but have troubles switching between that and Man-to-man blocking if they have a run play called.

I also attribute some of our issues to the line call that happens pre snap especially in Man-to-man blocking associated with the passing plays.

Watched Denver alot this year.
I don't think they have the same problem especially since they started to move to a bigger OLmen.


yeah, we're saying the same thing... i meant run to pass downs... it seems they focus so much on the zone blocking since that's what kind of run blocking scheme we have that they can't switch to pick up man blocking since zone blocking is a different concept... we all know they can block, but when you pass, it's more man on man versus an area your blocking in so that's why guys run in there free sometimes when the blitz is either delayed or disguised really well...


lmao, there have been many threads on pp.o over the years where people are arguing for pages in a thread and they finally realize they are saying the same thing in a different way.
Too funny.

LOL........

Gonna be a fun offseason isn't it?

;D

I know I have at least 5 really sweet ideas for threads that will get things livened up.
I already started the idea of moving Gross the C.

This one generated 33 pages of fun.....
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=39480.0

19 pages of fun here.
Really had the Whinny CSA'rs going on this one..... ;D
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=41441.0

VikingMike
01-07-2009, 11:53 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


You know what??..
I wonder if the switch to zone blocking is helping our run game, but hurting our pass game, since the way you block is soo much different!... and our o-line can't make the switch between pass downs and run downs on a consistent basis... what do you think?.. just a theory... it seems Houston may have the same problem... Denver? sometimes...

I agree with you on this but with a different twist.

I think they do pretty good when they ZB but have troubles switching between that and Man-to-man blocking if they have a run play called.

I also attribute some of our issues to the line call that happens pre snap especially in Man-to-man blocking associated with the passing plays.

Watched Denver alot this year.
I don't think they have the same problem especially since they started to move to a bigger OLmen.


yeah, we're saying the same thing... i meant run to pass downs... it seems they focus so much on the zone blocking since that's what kind of run blocking scheme we have that they can't switch to pick up man blocking since zone blocking is a different concept... we all know they can block, but when you pass, it's more man on man versus an area your blocking in so that's why guys run in there free sometimes when the blitz is either delayed or disguised really well...


lmao, there have been many threads on pp.o over the years where people are arguing for pages in a thread and they finally realize they are saying the same thing in a different way.
Too funny.

LOL........

Gonna be a fun offseason isn't it?

;D

I know I have at least 5 really sweet ideas for threads that will get things livened up.
I already started the idea of moving Gross the C.

This one generated 33 pages of fun.....
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=39480.0

19 pages of fun here.
Really had the Whinny CSA'rs going on this one..... ;D
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=41441.0





I've got it...Gross to C and Birk to RT. Cook becomes backup h-back and Sullivan spells Herrera at RG ;D

Vikefanman2000
01-07-2009, 11:56 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:

Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!


I'm really looking forward to drastic changes on the line (Birk) & (Cook) & waiting yet another 3-5 years for the o-line to gel & grasp the complicated blocking scheme.


I know everyone considers Cook a bust at RT, but as I remember, he was a center in college that they tried to convert to a RT because he is huge.
Perhaps Cook could provide competition with Sullivan for the Center position.

Prophet
01-07-2009, 11:58 AM
"Vikefanman2000" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:

Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!


I'm really looking forward to drastic changes on the line (Birk) & (Cook) & waiting yet another 3-5 years for the o-line to gel & grasp the complicated blocking scheme.


I know everyone considers Cook a bust at RT, but as I remember, he was a center in college that they tried to convert to a RT because he is huge.
Perhaps Cook could provide competition with Sullivan for the Center position.


I wonder if that's in the mix.
I remember Del Rio touting off about how he liked Cook (but that might have been in a brown-eye sort of love and not as a football player, I can't recall).

C Mac D
01-07-2009, 11:58 AM
It doesn't mater who we put in there... our coaching staff will try to implement a cutesy blocking scheme that doesn't work (but they'll stick with it regardless) and our QB won't be able to hit his target anyways... unless we're playing the Lions or Cardinals.

kevoncox
01-07-2009, 12:00 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Let see,
Our team fails to make it to the Divisonal round in 05. What do we do? Blame the pathetic defense we have or the 5 time pro bowl WR on our Roster and run him out of town?

Our team fail to make the Divisonal Round in 09 What do we do, Blame the erratic QB or the 7 time Pro Bowl Center and run him out of town?

What is it whit this fan base? Do you know why our O line sucks in passing downs? It's because our Offense sucks. We ahve a superstar running back that we have to put on the sidelines because the coach can't figure out how to use him as a decoy/reciver and nullifies any potential playaction we could have used as trickery. Our WRs corp is a joke( minus BB and Wade) and Our Qb situation can be compared to taking your Mom or Sister to the Prom( go with sis, her breast don't sag
::))Our Oline has to make an absurd amount of reads and checks because no one respects our QB. No one thinks he can get the ball accuratly to his WRs.

If you want to blame Birk go right ahead. However, let me ask you this. Do you trust Childress and Co. has found a suitable replacement for Birk after all the thrash, they have brought in in the past 3 years? Heck we signed a FB to replace the " aging vet" Richardson and he played like Thrash(Lets forget about the fact that he fooled them into signing him). Thi sis the same FO that thought they can turn Ryan Cook into a RT. The same FO that brought us the TJ show and Billy McMullen. The same Fo that signed Hicks to return kicks. I could go on and I'm sure alot of you will counter that they Drafted a sure thing in AD. I don't trust anything they do or say. Loosing Sharper and Birk will cause a Randy Moss like tailspin for this franchise.

So now you are touting that the Chiller scouts FA vet replacements for the team, briefs them to Spielman and company and then decides for all of the staff if the guy will work out?

I always thought that General George and his scouts filled that role, briefed Spielman and then that group brought some candidates to the Coaching staff for approval.

http://www.vikings.com/TeamFrontOfficeProfile_george_paton.aspx


(key note: I should give you bonus points cause you did use the FO in your post
;D)

Additionally, sounds like you are part of the crowd that didn't want to let some S's go last year without a crowd.
If my assumption is correct, you were probably sure our LBr corps was gonna be a weakness in 2006.
Hey, I probably have another assumption, I bet you though moving Birk from RT to C was gonna be dumb as well.


I know you would be looking for FO Marr,
I still stand by my Assertion that you don't need to cut a player and then go looking for his replacement.
In 2006 our LB corps was a weakness. The entire corps did not cement until 2007.

Marrdro
01-07-2009, 12:00 PM
"Vikefanman2000" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:

Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!


I'm really looking forward to drastic changes on the line (Birk) & (Cook) & waiting yet another 3-5 years for the o-line to gel & grasp the complicated blocking scheme.


I know everyone considers Cook a bust at RT, but as I remember, he was a center in college that they tried to convert to a RT because he is huge.
Perhaps Cook could provide competition with Sullivan for the Center position.

It wouldn't be the first time the Vikings moved a RT to C.


Problem for me is that he is 6'6".
Damn tall IMHO.

Vikefanman2000
01-07-2009, 12:17 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Vikefanman2000" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:

Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!


I'm really looking forward to drastic changes on the line (Birk) & (Cook) & waiting yet another 3-5 years for the o-line to gel & grasp the complicated blocking scheme.


I know everyone considers Cook a bust at RT, but as I remember, he was a center in college that they tried to convert to a RT because he is huge.
Perhaps Cook could provide competition with Sullivan for the Center position.

It wouldn't be the first time the Vikings moved a RT to C.


Problem for me is that he is 6'6".
gol 'darnit tall IMHO.


We "FANS" always feel like we know more then the people that make their livings evaluating talent (I'm sure most of us realize deep down inside that this just isn't true).....anyways....the talent evaluators have seen enough of Ryan Cook to believe he can be a starting NFL lineman.
Yes, he is probably taller then the prototypical center...but if that in fact is his natural position....he MIGHT do quite well in it.

Marrdro
01-07-2009, 12:29 PM
"Vikefanman2000" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Vikefanman2000" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:

Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!


I'm really looking forward to drastic changes on the line (Birk) & (Cook) & waiting yet another 3-5 years for the o-line to gel & grasp the complicated blocking scheme.


I know everyone considers Cook a bust at RT, but as I remember, he was a center in college that they tried to convert to a RT because he is huge.
Perhaps Cook could provide competition with Sullivan for the Center position.

It wouldn't be the first time the Vikings moved a RT to C.


Problem for me is that he is 6'6".
gol 'darnit tall IMHO.


We "FANS" always feel like we know more then the people that make their livings evaluating talent (I'm sure most of us realize deep down inside that this just isn't true).....anyways....the talent evaluators have seen enough of Ryan Cook to believe he can be a starting NFL lineman.
Yes, he is probably taller then the prototypical center...but if that in fact is his natural position....he MIGHT do quite well in it.


You could be right.


Maybe the braintrust had him out there learning the whole time so he could step back in at C.
Problem I then have trying to rationalize that is why go get Mozes and Sullivan.

Mozes I can almost rationalize cause Birk would still be there while Cook was at RT but why Sullivan.

As you said, We Fans always think we know something when in fact we don't.
Its still fun to sit down and try to figure out what the FO pukes are trying to do.

mountainviking
01-07-2009, 12:36 PM
You got to hope and assume that our FO has some sort of plan for Center.
Its too important to all parts of the offense!
Like Marr said, drafting Sullivan seems to point toward moving forward.
But I'm scared like singer about how much time it may take to "gel" with a new C And new RT, or our RT at C, or...?
Maybe, with time, its actually an improvement, if we can add some youthful agility and strength.

Marrdro
01-07-2009, 12:47 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:


You got to hope and assume that our FO has some sort of plan for Center.
Its too important to all parts of the offense!
Like Marr said, drafting Sullivan seems to point toward moving forward.
But I'm scared like singer about how much time it may take to "gel" with a new C And new RT, or our RT at C, or...?
Maybe, with time, its actually an improvement, if we can add some youthful agility and strength.

Although the Center position is a bit different (and probably alot harder) than the other 4 positions, I don't think it will be that big of an issue if the guy is a guy who has been on the roster.

Of course that was my point with respect to Singers concerns going into last offseason when I used Mozes as the "Guy on the Roster".

Now we will be using Sullivan.
Truth be told, it might be someone none of us even thought/think about.

I guess for me, as with other positions of concern since this regime took over (LB, DE, CB, S etc), they have demonstrated that they will make a concerted effort to get it right.


The problem is some people just can't grasp the concept that this staff isn't trying to go out and buy a championship like Dallas/Deadskins but rather to build it up (a bit to slowly for most of us) in a manner that it will be a viable contender for years to come.

Vikefanman2000
01-07-2009, 12:47 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Vikefanman2000" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Vikefanman2000" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:



Birk has declined alot the past few years. Time to see what Sullivan has!


I'm really looking forward to drastic changes on the line (Birk) & (Cook) & waiting yet another 3-5 years for the o-line to gel & grasp the complicated blocking scheme.


I know everyone considers Cook a bust at RT, but as I remember, he was a center in college that they tried to convert to a RT because he is huge.
Perhaps Cook could provide competition with Sullivan for the Center position.

It wouldn't be the first time the Vikings moved a RT to C.


Problem for me is that he is 6'6".
gol 'darnit tall IMHO.


We "FANS" always feel like we know more then the people that make their livings evaluating talent (I'm sure most of us realize deep down inside that this just isn't true).....anyways....the talent evaluators have seen enough of Ryan Cook to believe he can be a starting NFL lineman.
Yes, he is probably taller then the prototypical center...but if that in fact is his natural position....he MIGHT do quite well in it.


You could be right.


Maybe the braintrust had him out there learning the whole time so he could step back in at C.
Problem I then have trying to rationalize that is why go get Mozes and Sullivan.

Mozes I can almost rationalize cause Birk would still be there while Cook was at RT but why Sullivan.

As you said, We Fans always think we know something when in fact we don't.
Its still fun to sit down and try to figure out what the FO pukes are trying to do.



I couldnt agree more!
I love trying to figure "it all" out before it happens.
How often do ANY OF US get more then one...maybe two....draft picks right?
We always feel like we have a direct connect to our teams....and in reality...we cannot control even one small piece of what goes on in the organization.

mountainviking
01-07-2009, 02:47 PM
Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)
We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?



At this point, I'd be kind of surprised if Cook starts at C...?
I guess, maybe, his argument could be that he has trouble with speed rushers, and wouldn't face those guys in the middle, thus fixing his presnap penalty problems???
Guessing at this point that it will be Sullivan, with Cook a multiple backup, Hicks starting at RT and some young depth/future starter developing behind him.

I like the sound of Birk and Sullivan sharing snaps and Sullivan's building as he progresses, but don't you guys suspect Birk wants around 5 million/year?
Plus bonus?
I don't think we'll be able to afford that kind of backup C salary...?

tke0933
01-08-2009, 07:13 AM
I'd like to see Birk stick around another year, but the asking price might be to high.
I do envision Cook moving there, but will it be to eventually take over the spot, or give Sullivan competition remains to be seen.
Although he is tall, I think C is Cook's better position.

Prophet
01-08-2009, 08:09 AM
"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

Marrdro
01-08-2009, 08:23 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct my friend.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 08:29 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

Prophet
01-08-2009, 08:32 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?


Seem to forget?
It takes about one second looking at the team's draft history to negate your question, players in the draft are always a risk.
I like how you conveniently exclude AD.

http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draftteam.htm?tm=MIN&lg=nfl

That is being discussed in detail in another thread.

Marrdro
01-08-2009, 08:35 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)

ejmat
01-08-2009, 08:40 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Silly expectations.

singersp
01-08-2009, 08:42 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)
We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct my friend.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


Just because Birk panned out after Christy left, doesn't automatically mean Sullivan will have the same success replacing Birk.

However, the boo birds think he will & have absolutely nothing to back up their claim.

Case in point: Moss was traded & we replaced him with T-Will.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 08:43 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Packers jump out of my head.
I'm sure I can name a lot more if given the time. We can't use that excuse anymore Marr.
My point about the Regime change is that just because it worked for Green( i think) doesn't mean that Childress and Co. have the same eye for spotting a diamond in the rough.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 08:46 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


Just because Birk panned out after Christy left, doesn't automatically mean Sullivan will have the same success replacing Birk.

However, the boo birds think he will & have absolutely nothing to back up their claim.

Case in point: Moss was traded & we replaced him with T-Will.


Singer - People think because it happened once, it will happen again. Replacing Pro Bowlers is
easy. Look at how good we did at fullback this season. :-\ Johnson in action. seeing that he looks to be more of an in the box saftey than a cover 2 guy.

ejmat
01-08-2009, 08:48 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:




Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Packers jump out of my head.
I'm sure I can name a lot more if given the time. We can't use that excuse anymore Marr.
My point about the Regime change is that just because it worked for Green( i think) doesn't mean that Childress and Co. have the same eye for spotting a diamond in the rough.


Really?
Who knew how C Taylor would be?
Who knew how Shiancoe would be?
Who knew how good Griffin could be?
Who knew how Greenway would be?
Who knew how Robison would be?


It's really comical that some are so one sided they can never see the other side of the coin.
I take in the good with the bad and I can see this team is headed in the right direction.
Things just don't happen over night and just 3 seasons ago we were in a rebuilding phase.

Purple Floyd
01-08-2009, 08:53 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:






Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)
We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Packers jump out of my head.
I'm sure I can name a lot more if given the time. We can't use that excuse anymore Marr.
My point about the Regime change is that just because it worked for Green( i think) doesn't mean that Childress and Co. have the same eye for spotting a diamond in the rough.


Really?
Who knew how C Taylor would be?
Who knew how Shiancoe would be?
Who knew how good Griffin could be?
Who knew how Greenway would be?
Who knew how Robison would be?


It's really comical that some are so one sided they can never see the other side of the coin.
I take in the good with the bad and I can see this team is headed in the right direction.
Things just don't happen over night and just 3 seasons ago we were in a rebuilding phase.


No we weren't

We were fresh off a 9-7 record with a good talent base( Many of them still on the team forming this teams base) that Childress clearly stated he could win right away with. The fact that they chose to release certain players and sign other was not because the team had no talent, Childress just didn't want to play to their strengths.

Marrdro
01-08-2009, 08:54 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


Just because Birk panned out after Christy left, doesn't automatically mean Sullivan will have the same success replacing Birk.

However, the boo birds think he will & have absolutely nothing to back up their claim.

Case in point: Moss was traded & we replaced him with T-Will.


Singer - People think because it happened once, it will happen again. Replacing Pro Bowlers is
easy. Look at how good we did at fullback this season. :-\ Johnson in action. seeing that he looks to be more of an in the box saftey than a cover 2 guy.



Show me in there were I said it would be a success.
My point (I have made it lots of times on this subject) is that the fans overreacted when thier "Favorite Center" was replaced by a "nobody".


Now that "Nobody" is their "Favorite" and are all up in arms about his possible replacement.

Wake up people.......Players come and go and the game goes on.
Nature of the beast.
Kindof reminds me what a player said recently about fans romanticizing things......... ;D

Marrdro
01-08-2009, 08:57 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:








Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Packers jump out of my head.
I'm sure I can name a lot more if given the time. We can't use that excuse anymore Marr.
My point about the Regime change is that just because it worked for Green( i think) doesn't mean that Childress and Co. have the same eye for spotting a diamond in the rough.


Really?
Who knew how C Taylor would be?
Who knew how Shiancoe would be?
Who knew how good Griffin could be?
Who knew how Greenway would be?
Who knew how Robison would be?


It's really comical that some are so one sided they can never see the other side of the coin.
I take in the good with the bad and I can see this team is headed in the right direction.
Things just don't happen over night and just 3 seasons ago we were in a rebuilding phase.


No we weren't

We were fresh off a 9-7 record with a good talent base( Many of them still on the team forming this teams base) that Childress clearly stated he could win right away with. The fact that they chose to release certain players and sign other was not because the team had no talent, Childress just didn't want to play to their strengths.

I'm gonna use this alot.
It was worth the time to put it together..........That 9-7 team was falling apart.
Statistically they looked like shit.
No way that team goes 9-7 against a schedule like we faced this year.

Offense

2008
Overall - 330.5 (17th)
- Rush 145.8 (5th) – Pass 184.8 (25th) – Pts 379 (12th)

2007
Overall – 336.2 (13th)
- Rush 164.6 (1th) – Pass 171.6 (28th) – Pts 365 (15th)

2006
Overall – 308.9 (23rd)
- Rush 113.8 (16th) – Pass 195.2 (18th) – Pts 282 (26th)

2005
Overall – 288.3 (25th)
- Rush 91.7 (27th) – Pass 196.6 (20th) – Pts 306 (19th)

2004
Overall – 396.2 (4th)
- Rush 113.9 (18th) – Pass 282.3 (2nd) – Pts 405 (6th)

2003
Overall – 393.42 (1rst)
- Rush 146.4 (4th) – Pass 246.9 (4th) – Pts 416 (6th)

Defense
2008
Pts/G 20.8– Yds/G 292.4– Rush Yds/G – 76.9 – Pass Yds/G 215.6 – Int 12-Sack 45

2007
Pts/G 19.4– Yds/G 338.1– Rush Yds/G – 74.1 – Pass Yds/G 264.1 – Int 15-Sack 38

2006
Pts/G 20.4– Yds/G 300.2– Rush Yds/G – 61.6 – Pass Yds/G 238.6 – Int 21-Sack 30

2005
Pts/G 21.5– Yds/G 323.3– Rush Yds/G – 115.1 – Pass Yds/G 208.3 – Int 24-Sack 34

2004
Pts/G 24.7– Yds/G 368.9– Rush Yds/G – 125.4 – Pass Yds/G 243.5 – Int 11-Sack 39

2003
Pts/G 22.1– Yds/G 334.8– Rush Yds/G – 117.4 – Pass Yds/G 217.3 – Int 28-Sack 37

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/min/stats?year=season_2006

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 09:04 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:






Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Packers jump out of my head.
I'm sure I can name a lot more if given the time. We can't use that excuse anymore Marr.
My point about the Regime change is that just because it worked for Green( i think) doesn't mean that Childress and Co. have the same eye for spotting a diamond in the rough.


Really?
Who knew how C Taylor would be?
Who knew how Shiancoe would be?
Who knew how good Griffin could be?
Who knew how Greenway would be?
Who knew how Robison would be?


It's really comical that some are so one sided they can never see the other side of the coin.
I take in the good with the bad and I can see this team is headed in the right direction.
Things just don't happen over night and just 3 seasons ago we were in a rebuilding phase.


Greenway was a 1st round pick and was expected to be the 2nd or 3rd LB off the board in a bad draft class.
Griffen = See Greenway.

The pick up of Ct wasn't our first choice so please don't come in here like Chilly saw the future and thought this guy was the 2nd coming of Christ and CT was similar in B-More, for all those that got to see him.

Shank had a terrific season after starting off rocky.

Funny, ATL was rebuilding this year as was Miami. In the NFl rebuilding is not like it is in college. Teams that use rebuilding as a crutch will always be 'rebuilding".
This was our year to take a title. Most of the elite teams and coaches were knocked out of the playoffs due to bad years and we could not get it done.

We have the best running tandem in the league. One of the best Olines in the league, The best D line in the league, a Solid LB core, A solid DB core, and we still could not get it done with Chilly. He is not a coach that can take us to the Superbowl.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 09:09 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:










Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Packers jump out of my head.
I'm sure I can name a lot more if given the time. We can't use that excuse anymore Marr.
My point about the Regime change is that just because it worked for Green( i think) doesn't mean that Childress and Co. have the same eye for spotting a diamond in the rough.


Really?
Who knew how C Taylor would be?
Who knew how Shiancoe would be?
Who knew how good Griffin could be?
Who knew how Greenway would be?
Who knew how Robison would be?


It's really comical that some are so one sided they can never see the other side of the coin.
I take in the good with the bad and I can see this team is headed in the right direction.
Things just don't happen over night and just 3 seasons ago we were in a rebuilding phase.


No we weren't

We were fresh off a 9-7 record with a good talent base( Many of them still on the team forming this teams base) that Childress clearly stated he could win right away with. The fact that they chose to release certain players and sign other was not because the team had no talent, Childress just didn't want to play to their strengths.

I'm gonna use this alot.
It was worth the time to put it together..........That 9-7 team was falling apart.
Statistically they looked like pooh.
No way that team goes 9-7 against a schedule like we faced this year.

Offense

2008
Overall - 330.5 (17th)
- Rush 145.8 (5th) – Pass 184.8 (25th) – Pts 379 (12th)

2007
Overall – 336.2 (13th)
- Rush 164.6 (1th) – Pass 171.6 (28th) – Pts 365 (15th)

2006
Overall – 308.9 (23rd)
- Rush 113.8 (16th) – Pass 195.2 (18th) – Pts 282 (26th)

2005
Overall – 288.3 (25th)
- Rush 91.7 (27th) – Pass 196.6 (20th) – Pts 306 (19th)

2004
Overall – 396.2 (4th)
- Rush 113.9 (18th) – Pass 282.3 (2nd) – Pts 405 (6th)

2003
Overall – 393.42 (1rst)
- Rush 146.4 (4th) – Pass 246.9 (4th) – Pts 416 (6th)

Defense
2008
Pts/G 20.8– Yds/G 292.4– Rush Yds/G – 76.9 – Pass Yds/G 215.6 – Int 12-Sack 45

2007
Pts/G 19.4– Yds/G 338.1– Rush Yds/G – 74.1 – Pass Yds/G 264.1 – Int 15-Sack 38

2006
Pts/G 20.4– Yds/G 300.2– Rush Yds/G – 61.6 – Pass Yds/G 238.6 – Int 21-Sack 30

2005
Pts/G 21.5– Yds/G 323.3– Rush Yds/G – 115.1 – Pass Yds/G 208.3 – Int 24-Sack 34

2004
Pts/G 24.7– Yds/G 368.9– Rush Yds/G – 125.4 – Pass Yds/G 243.5 – Int 11-Sack 39

2003
Pts/G 22.1– Yds/G 334.8– Rush Yds/G – 117.4 – Pass Yds/G 217.3 – Int 28-Sack 37

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/min/stats?year=season_2006



Really? Because most of the players on that team are still with us today. Also we both know Reds did not care about the defense and refused to spend money as it "did not put butts in the chairs". You can't compare the two. You have 1 owner that is willing to spend money on both sides of the ball. Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

Marrdro
01-08-2009, 09:20 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Greenway was a 1st round pick and was expected to be the 2nd or 3rd LB off the board in a bad draft class.
Griffen = See Greenway.

Griff see Greenway?
WHAT?
You do realize we took him about 2 or 3 rounds early don't you.


The pick up of Ct wasn't our first choice so please don't come in here like Chilly saw the future and thought this guy was the 2nd coming of Christ and CT was similar in B-More, for all those that got to see him.

Who was our first choice?
Gimme a break.
The staff (not just the Chiller) elected to address the running game as thier first order of business.......
Hutch = See CT


Shank had a terrific season after starting off rocky.
Seems to me that it takes about 2 years for a Vet to grasp the scheme.
Wonder how long it should take a rook?


Funny, ATL was rebuilding this year as was Miami. In the NFl rebuilding is not like it is in college. Teams that use rebuilding as a crutch will always be 'rebuilding".
Those two teams took different approaches than we did.
Look at thier rosters, alot of vets on the field vs rooks, 1 year, 2 year players.


This was our year to take a title. Most of the elite teams and coaches were knocked out of the playoffs due to bad years and we could not get it done.
Why was it our year? Cause we signed a DE that could get to the QB?
Gimme a break.
There were several of us on here at the beginning of Pre-season warning not buy into the hype.


We have the best running tandem in the league. One of the best Olines in the league, The best D line in the league, a Solid LB core, A solid DB core, and we still could not get it done with Chilly. He is not a coach that can take us to the Superbowl.
The OL can't pass block.
The DL took time to gel and then suffered some injury issues.
The LB core has no depth resulting in guys coming off the street to provide relief after EJ went down.

Long story short, the team continued to get better.
The FO pukes addressed our issues with players in most positions that us fans thought were gonna be a problem.
The FO pukes will address our issues again in the offseason and our core group of players will continue to get bigger as the kids aren't gonna be kids anymore.

A few stepped up and started to play like we thought they could (Griff, Shanc, Greenway) others will come around next year (Rice, AA, Cook, AD). Its the nature of the game.


Of course you could discount all that and think that all the players will learn and mature at the same time or should be instant hero's coming right out of college.
:o

ejmat
01-08-2009, 09:21 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:








Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Packers jump out of my head.
I'm sure I can name a lot more if given the time. We can't use that excuse anymore Marr.
My point about the Regime change is that just because it worked for Green( i think) doesn't mean that Childress and Co. have the same eye for spotting a diamond in the rough.


Really?
Who knew how C Taylor would be?
Who knew how Shiancoe would be?
Who knew how good Griffin could be?
Who knew how Greenway would be?
Who knew how Robison would be?


It's really comical that some are so one sided they can never see the other side of the coin.
I take in the good with the bad and I can see this team is headed in the right direction.
Things just don't happen over night and just 3 seasons ago we were in a rebuilding phase.


No we weren't

We were fresh off a 9-7 record with a good talent base( Many of them still on the team forming this teams base) that Childress clearly stated he could win right away with. The fact that they chose to release certain players and sign other was not because the team had no talent, Childress just didn't want to play to their strengths.


Yes we were.

We lost the franchise QB because he cried himslef out of town.
Many players were let go and many new faces came in to include the coaching staff.
They also learned a new style offense and defense which means a totally new playbook.
There were a few select talented players left over.
I can name Matt Birk and Darren Sharper.
Other than that, who?
Please don't say McKinnie because up till last year he didn't play a well rounded game.
He was good a run blocking but not the pass.
Please don't say EJ because he flat out stunk under Tice.
Please don't say AW because up till lasst year he was over-rated.
If you argue that look up the stats that say how many catches he let up.


If anything I can say flat out that those three started performing better under Childress' regime.
I may have missed a few but feel free to point them out to me.

Prophet
01-08-2009, 09:28 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.

ejmat
01-08-2009, 09:30 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:








Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Packers jump out of my head.
I'm sure I can name a lot more if given the time. We can't use that excuse anymore Marr.
My point about the Regime change is that just because it worked for Green( i think) doesn't mean that Childress and Co. have the same eye for spotting a diamond in the rough.


Really?
Who knew how C Taylor would be?
Who knew how Shiancoe would be?
Who knew how good Griffin could be?
Who knew how Greenway would be?
Who knew how Robison would be?


It's really comical that some are so one sided they can never see the other side of the coin.
I take in the good with the bad and I can see this team is headed in the right direction.
Things just don't happen over night and just 3 seasons ago we were in a rebuilding phase.


Greenway was a 1st round pick and was expected to be the 2nd or 3rd LB off the board in a bad draft class.
Griffen = See Greenway.

The pick up of Ct wasn't our first choice so please don't come in here like Chilly saw the future and thought this guy was the 2nd coming of Christ and CT was similar in B-More, for all those that got to see him.

Shank had a terrific season after starting off rocky.

Funny, ATL was rebuilding this year as was Miami. In the NFl rebuilding is not like it is in college. Teams that use rebuilding as a crutch will always be 'rebuilding".
This was our year to take a title. Most of the elite teams and coaches were knocked out of the playoffs due to bad years and we could not get it done.

We have the best running tandem in the league. One of the best Olines in the league, The best D line in the league, a Solid LB core, A solid DB core, and we still could not get it done with Chilly. He is not a coach that can take us to the Superbowl.


So Griffin was a 1st round pick?

CT was our first choice by the way.
Name another RB that came in before him.
There were many of us that saw CT play and a lot of people bitched because they didn't know who he was.
I can tell you I saw him and was happy when we got him.

Shiancoe still did well this season and no one gave him a chance.

You say we have the best RB tandum in the league.
No we don't.
There are two that were better and both still happen to be in the playoffs.
By the way, some of the reasons why we lost games were because of fumbles by the RB tandum.
Just so you don't try and pick that apart I am not saying they are bad at all.
I am just stating a fact.

You are saying all these great things about the team.
This section is solid and that section.
What regime do you think brought them in?
It wasn't Tice.
This year is a good stepping stone to continue to build on.
Next year if the outcome is the same or worse than I will be pissed.
You make good points about Miami and Atlanta.
The fact is that is extremely rare.
And if you want to make an argument out of it they are both in the same predicament as the Vikings (both lost in the 1st round of the playoffs).

Edit:
Both of the teams with better RB tandems made the playoffs.
They aren't still in the playoffs.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 09:33 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Greenway was a 1st round pick and was expected to be the 2nd or 3rd LB off the board in a bad draft class.
Griffen = See Greenway.

Griff see Greenway?
WHAT?
You do realize we took him about 2 or 3 rounds early don't you.


The pick up of Ct wasn't our first choice so please don't come in here like Chilly saw the future and thought this guy was the 2nd coming of Christ and CT was similar in B-More, for all those that got to see him.

Who was our first choice?
Gimme a break.
The staff (not just the Chiller) elected to address the running game as thier first order of business.......
Hutch = See CT


Shank had a terrific season after starting off rocky.
Seems to me that it takes about 2 years for a Vet to grasp the scheme.
Wonder how long it should take a rook?


Funny, ATL was rebuilding this year as was Miami. In the NFl rebuilding is not like it is in college. Teams that use rebuilding as a crutch will always be 'rebuilding".
Those two teams took different approaches than we did.
Look at thier rosters, alot of vets on the field vs rooks, 1 year, 2 year players.


This was our year to take a title. Most of the elite teams and coaches were knocked out of the playoffs due to bad years and we could not get it done.
Why was it our year? Cause we signed a DE that could get to the QB?
Gimme a break.
There were several of us on here at the beginning of Pre-season warning not buy into the hype.


We have the best running tandem in the league. One of the best Olines in the league, The best D line in the league, a Solid LB core, A solid DB core, and we still could not get it done with Chilly. He is not a coach that can take us to the Superbowl.
The OL can't pass block.
The DL took time to gel and then suffered some injury issues.
The LB core has no depth resulting in guys coming off the street to provide relief after EJ went down.

Long story short, the team continued to get better.
The FO pukes addressed our issues with players in most positions that us fans thought were gonna be a problem.
The FO pukes will address our issues again in the offseason and our core group of players will continue to get bigger as the kids aren't gonna be kids anymore.

A few stepped up and started to play like we thought they could (Griff, Shanc, Greenway) others will come around next year (Rice, AA, Cook, AD). Its the nature of the game.


Of course you could discount all that and think that all the players will learn and mature at the same time or should be instant hero's coming right out of college.

:o



It explained why it was our year but I guess you chose to ignore it.
I noticed you left TJ off your list of players that will step up next year.
Not everyone expects Superheros coming out of college, however, You shouldn't handicapp your team when you know those players won't be ready. That's the reason teams sign a vet and let them learn behind the vet. That's the reason a team like the steelers always seem to have a never ending supply of Lbs and WRs and replace the aging ones at will.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 09:35 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.

Prophet
01-08-2009, 09:39 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.

i_bleed_purple
01-08-2009, 09:39 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


and the guy who ended up getting it worked out so much better.....
Childress has gotten a better record than Tice ever has, you can't possibly make the argument that Tice was hands down better than childress.

Marrdro
01-08-2009, 09:39 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.

Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Handgrenades my friend.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?

i_bleed_purple
01-08-2009, 09:43 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.

Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Handgrenades my friend.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


because they go against his argument

Purple Floyd
01-08-2009, 09:50 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:

.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

ejmat
01-08-2009, 09:55 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


Almost is about as good as horseshoes and horsecrap.
There is a reason he didn't get the job.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 10:00 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.

Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Handgrenades My Sexy Little Pixie.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Because you ar ebetter than that Marr.
I respect your intelligence to much to even fathom that you would find me so foolish that i can't quickly dispatch that argument.
;D Fine, I'll bite. Red vs. Wilf. That is why the team was rotting (on defense atleast). Tice's scouting budget was almost no exsistant. You can't keep a team going without a scouting department to bring in new talent and an owner that refuse to pursure defensive FAs.
:'(

Marrdro
01-08-2009, 10:01 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:

.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 10:02 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 10:05 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


Almost is about as good as horseshoes and horsecrap.
There is a reason he didn't get the job.


The original statment made wa that he never got a sniff at anothe HC job. I have proven that false. I don't care if you don't like if he got it or not. He got an Interview and was considered a finalist for the position.

Prophet
01-08-2009, 10:05 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


I have problems with the lack of a two min. offense too.

Tice went backward in his career, Childress has not.

....a recent vid of tice:

5GgpZgYJrVo

ejmat
01-08-2009, 10:08 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?

singersp
01-08-2009, 10:16 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:



Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators



That has everything to do with the coordinators, not the coach. If you are trying to convice me or anyone else that Childress would have had a good defense with Cottrell as his DC, I will personally move you to the bottom of my spreadsheet right now.

How many coaches does Childress have under him? How many did Tice have?

I'm willing to bet Childress has about a dozen more.

Marrdro
01-08-2009, 10:18 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:



Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators



That has everything to do with the coordinators, not the coach. If you are trying to convice me or anyone else that Childress would have had a good defense with Cottrell as his DC, I will personally move you to the bottom of my spreadsheet right now.

How many coaches does Childress have under him? How many did Tice have?

I'm willing to bet Childress has about a dozen more.

Ultimately isn't he responsible for the selection of the Coordinator?
Ultimately isn't he responsible for what scheme they run.
Ultimately isn't he the guy that chops off on the gameplan?

Seriously, do you really think the Chiller is a cat who would just let his D-coord run amuck without any input into the process?

Purple Floyd
01-08-2009, 10:18 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:

.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a shit about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 10:21 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:




....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.

Prophet
01-08-2009, 10:23 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


.....No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a shit about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


My guess is that Childress wouldn't have even wanted to work for an owner that was as much of a tightwad as Redneck McCombs.
It was no secret that he was a tightwad and it made sense to give someone the interim position when Denny walked.
What didn't make sense is to take a guy with no coordinator experience and toss him in as the HC with no competition.
Contrary to the haters beliefs, the Vikings jumped the gun when Childress took over as HC and all the available coaches were out there and Wilf hired the man that he wanted.
He didn't screw around.
Childress was prime HC material and he would have shopped elsewhere if an owner like Redneck approached him.

singersp
01-08-2009, 10:25 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:

.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a shit about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fucking coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Purple Floyd
01-08-2009, 10:27 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


.....No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a shit about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


My guess is that Childress wouldn't have even wanted to work for an owner that was as much of a tightwad as Redneck McCombs.
It was no secret that he was a tightwad and it made sense to give someone the interim position when Denny walked.
What didn't make sense is to take a guy with no coordinator experience and toss him in as the HC with no competition.
Contrary to the haters beliefs, the Vikings jumped the gun when Childress took over as HC and all the available coaches were out there and Wilf hired the man that he wanted.
He didn't screw around.
Childress was prime HC material and he would have shopped elsewhere if an owner like Redneck approached him.


I don't disagree with that at all. But by the same token what you posted supports the reason why saying that the team degenerated under Tice but has regenerated under Childress has much less to do with their coaching ability that the tools they have been given to do their job, which was what I was commenting on.

Marrdro
01-08-2009, 10:30 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:

.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.

Prophet
01-08-2009, 10:31 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


.....No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a shit about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


My guess is that Childress wouldn't have even wanted to work for an owner that was as much of a tightwad as Redneck McCombs.
It was no secret that he was a tightwad and it made sense to give someone the interim position when Denny walked.
What didn't make sense is to take a guy with no coordinator experience and toss him in as the HC with no competition.
Contrary to the haters beliefs, the Vikings jumped the gun when Childress took over as HC and all the available coaches were out there and Wilf hired the man that he wanted.
He didn't screw around.
Childress was prime HC material and he would have shopped elsewhere if an owner like Redneck approached him.


I don't disagree with that at all. But by the same token what you posted supports the reason why saying that the team degenerated under Tice but has regenerated under Childress has much less to do with their coaching ability that the tools they have been given to do their job, which was what I was commenting on.


That is obviously true to a point.
Redneck would not have gone after Hutch and would not have gone after Allen.
I believe that Tice would do shit if he was given an open checkbook.
My proof?
He has done nothing since then, in fact, he has gone backward in his career.
Childress is in his third year as HC and has improved the team every year.
He may tank and become a street cleaner or he may be one of the greats or he may be a run-of-the-mill HC.
We don't know yet.
But, if you compare their careers Childress is way ahead of Tice at this point just based on his coaching experience in all ranks.

Purple Floyd
01-08-2009, 10:45 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


.....No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a shit about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


My guess is that Childress wouldn't have even wanted to work for an owner that was as much of a tightwad as Redneck McCombs.
It was no secret that he was a tightwad and it made sense to give someone the interim position when Denny walked.
What didn't make sense is to take a guy with no coordinator experience and toss him in as the HC with no competition.
Contrary to the haters beliefs, the Vikings jumped the gun when Childress took over as HC and all the available coaches were out there and Wilf hired the man that he wanted.
He didn't screw around.
Childress was prime HC material and he would have shopped elsewhere if an owner like Redneck approached him.


I don't disagree with that at all. But by the same token what you posted supports the reason why saying that the team degenerated under Tice but has regenerated under Childress has much less to do with their coaching ability that the tools they have been given to do their job, which was what I was commenting on.


That is obviously true to a point.
Redneck would not have gone after Hutch and would not have gone after Allen.
I believe that Tice would do shit if he was given an open checkbook.
My proof?
He has done nothing since then, in fact, he has gone backward in his career.
Childress is in his third year as HC and has improved the team every year.
He may tank and become a street cleaner or he may be one of the greats or he may be a run-of-the-mill HC.
We don't know yet.
But, if you compare their careers Childress is way ahead of Tice at this point just based on his coaching experience in all ranks.



Going backwards in a career happens all of the time when coaches get fired. If Childress were to get the Axe, do you think teams would be beating down the doors to promote him and install the KAO on their team? Hell, Brian Billick won a damn SB with the Ravens and got multiple playoff appearances and he is now working as a TV analyst. Jim Fassel took the Giants to the Super Bowl and he was what, an offensive consultant to the coach who beat him in that game until he was released? Where is he now? Oh yeah, he does radio for westwood one.

Prophet
01-08-2009, 10:48 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


.....No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a shit about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


My guess is that Childress wouldn't have even wanted to work for an owner that was as much of a tightwad as Redneck McCombs.
It was no secret that he was a tightwad and it made sense to give someone the interim position when Denny walked.
What didn't make sense is to take a guy with no coordinator experience and toss him in as the HC with no competition.
Contrary to the haters beliefs, the Vikings jumped the gun when Childress took over as HC and all the available coaches were out there and Wilf hired the man that he wanted.
He didn't screw around.
Childress was prime HC material and he would have shopped elsewhere if an owner like Redneck approached him.


I don't disagree with that at all. But by the same token what you posted supports the reason why saying that the team degenerated under Tice but has regenerated under Childress has much less to do with their coaching ability that the tools they have been given to do their job, which was what I was commenting on.


That is obviously true to a point.
Redneck would not have gone after Hutch and would not have gone after Allen.
I believe that Tice would do shit if he was given an open checkbook.
My proof?
He has done nothing since then, in fact, he has gone backward in his career.
Childress is in his third year as HC and has improved the team every year.
He may tank and become a street cleaner or he may be one of the greats or he may be a run-of-the-mill HC.
We don't know yet.
But, if you compare their careers Childress is way ahead of Tice at this point just based on his coaching experience in all ranks.



Going backwards in a career happens all of the time when coaches get fired. If Childress were to get the Axe, do you think teams would be beating down the doors to promote him and install the KAO on their team? Hell, Brian Billick won a damn SB with the Ravens and got multiple playoff appearances and he is now working as a TV analyst. Jim Fassel took the Giants to the Super Bowl and he was what, an offensive consultant to the coach who beat him in that game until he was released? Where is he now? Oh yeah, he does radio for westwood one.


I wouldn't call that backwards.
You can say that Haslett went backward too when he ended up being a coordinator for the Rams and got the interim HC gig this year too.
Tice is spiraling from HC to asst. HC to line coach to TE coach.
He says he's interested in the U of Minn coaching job and doesn't get a sniff.
The guy is a mental midget.

ejmat
01-08-2009, 11:00 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:






....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 11:01 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


.....No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


My guess is that Childress wouldn't have even wanted to work for an owner that was as much of a tightwad as Redneck McCombs.
It was no secret that he was a tightwad and it made sense to give someone the interim position when Denny walked.
What didn't make sense is to take a guy with no coordinator experience and toss him in as the HC with no competition.
Contrary to the haters beliefs, the Vikings jumped the gun when Childress took over as HC and all the available coaches were out there and Wilf hired the man that he wanted.
He didn't screw around.
Childress was prime HC material and he would have shopped elsewhere if an owner like Redneck approached him.


Exactly, And with all the freedom he has gotten, the best he can do is reach the level Tice reached in the same amount of time.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 11:03 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:








....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!

i_bleed_purple
01-08-2009, 11:06 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:










....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 11:35 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:












....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?

ejmat
01-08-2009, 11:37 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:










....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


Who stated that is what I measure?
I believe you were the one that brought it up initially.
I responded to what you had typed.
Yes it is a part of evaluating a coach.
Not the entire conclusion as you are implying here.

ejmat
01-08-2009, 11:42 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:














....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.

Vikes
01-08-2009, 02:47 PM
"jorgie" wrote:


According to the PP today Matt Birk, 6 time Pro Bowler and probably the best center in the NFL doesn't get along well with Brad Childress.

I think we all know what that means. :'(


That sucks but Chillys the coach gotta go

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 03:16 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:
















....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.



Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!

i_bleed_purple
01-08-2009, 03:20 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:














....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


i was never using that as an argument about who's better, you just essentially said that the ability to come back from behind doesn't make a good coach, when its very important.

ejmat
01-08-2009, 04:49 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


















....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.



Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!


You can continue to use that argument and I will continue to tell you 2nd stringers in the NFL does not mean they are bad players.
They are the same people that substitute in and out of games with the starters.
Just as Robison does for Edwards.
Just as Gordon Sapp does in the nickle defense.
It is one thing to try to make a point but at least know a little something about it when you do.
Your comments that state "they only beat a 2nd string team" is a load of crap.

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 05:07 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:




















....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.



Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!


You can continue to use that argument and I will continue to tell you 2nd stringers in the NFL does not mean they are bad players.
They are the same people that substitute in and out of games with the starters.
Just as Robison does for Edwards.
Just as Gordon Sapp does in the nickle defense.
It is one thing to try to make a point but at least know a little something about it when you do.
Your comments that state "they only beat a 2nd string team" is a load of crap.

No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?

ejmat
01-08-2009, 08:59 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:






















....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.



Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!


You can continue to use that argument and I will continue to tell you 2nd stringers in the NFL does not mean they are bad players.
They are the same people that substitute in and out of games with the starters.
Just as Robison does for Edwards.
Just as Gordon Sapp does in the nickle defense.
It is one thing to try to make a point but at least know a little something about it when you do.
Your comments that state "they only beat a 2nd string team" is a load of crap.

No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?


Not necessarily.
Ward doesn't start and he had better numbers than Jacobs in the Giants backfield.
Chester is a better all around back then AP but AP starts.
You are right their 2nd string OL beat our 1st string DL.
I'm glad you use that as an example.
There is such a thing as a bad game and just because that happened doesn't mean our DL sucks.
Hell we had our best run stopper out of the game.
That helped open up the passing game.
By the way, Allen was doing a little more covering that game as well.

Please ell me what 3rd stringers were in.
Becasue if you are going to say players at skilled positions I will tell you there is not much difference in talent between David Hixon and Sinorece Moss or Manningham.

ItalianStallion
01-08-2009, 09:15 PM
I could be mistaken, but I thought the giants played their starting O-line all game...

marstc09
01-08-2009, 09:47 PM
I would like to see Birk get a new contract. He did a couple dumb things this year but he seems to still be solid. Cook is the problem here. I can't see any reason why the staff would go into next year with him starting. There are some great RTs in FA and Childress is all about beefing up the OL. We will bring someone like Tauscher. Also, what up making a run at Jeff Saturday if Birk leaves?

kevoncox
01-08-2009, 11:31 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:
























....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.



Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!


You can continue to use that argument and I will continue to tell you 2nd stringers in the NFL does not mean they are bad players.
They are the same people that substitute in and out of games with the starters.
Just as Robison does for Edwards.
Just as Gordon Sapp does in the nickle defense.
It is one thing to try to make a point but at least know a little something about it when you do.
Your comments that state "they only beat a 2nd string team" is a load of crap.

No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?


Not necessarily.
Ward doesn't start and he had better numbers than Jacobs in the Giants backfield.
Chester is a better all around back then AP but AP starts.
You are right their 2nd string OL beat our 1st string DL.
I'm glad you use that as an example.
There is such a thing as a bad game and just because that happened doesn't mean our DL sucks.
Hell we had our best run stopper out of the game.
That helped open up the passing game.
By the way, Allen was doing a little more covering that game as well.

Please ell me what 3rd stringers were in.
Becasue if you are going to say players at skilled positions I will tell you there is not much difference in talent between David Hixon and Sinorece Moss or Manningham.


Exactly the problem. Hixon was there 4th WR.
Plax, Toomer, Smith and Hixon. They subbed him and brought in Moss and Manningham to beat up on us. That's like us playing Jamar Johnson. This is my point. We did get out played by their 2nd unit. Mu point in all this and we're getting away from that is that this "come back victory" is tainted. If you see this as progress because we came back against Sinorice Moss and Manningham...we are worst off than I thought.

singersp
01-09-2009, 07:03 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:



.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.


Where in the world did you get that notion from that I was comparing Tice to Bevell? You may want to re-read that again. It was a comparison between Loney & Bevell. Now you can laugh at yourself for making such a knee-jerk reaction without thoroughly reading it first.

Tice had Loney as an OC & Loney did that job plus was the O-line coach. Red would not pay for Tice to hire an OC, made him promote within & then would not allow Tice to hire a replacement O-line coach. Ergo Loney spent half his time coaching the o-line & the other half being the OC.

Childress has both a full time OC, plus at least 1 full time coach for the o-line. He has 23 coaches working for him.

Tice never had the luxury of 23 coaches. In fact, I think he had a lot less.

singersp
01-09-2009, 07:12 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


That's bullshit!

I remember games where we came from behind to win the game. Most notably coming back from a 17-0 halftime score to beat GB with a 53 or 54 YD Edinger FG.

singersp
01-09-2009, 07:19 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!


Obviously you have no clue that the RB we faced in the second half was one half of the starting RB tandem.

Derrick Ward rushed for over 1,000 yards this season.

singersp
01-09-2009, 07:26 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:



No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?


Before you go spouting off that everyone on their o-line that played in the second half were 2nd stringers, please provide us with the names of the O-line they played in the 1st half, then do the same for the 2nd half.

Also, please provide a link to the source of said information.

Granted, some starters were pulled, but don't try selling us the fact that every player we faced in the 2nd half were all 2nd stringers, because that's bullshit.

Derrick Ward, for one, is a half of a tandem team with Jacobs & he played in the 2nd half.

Marrdro
01-09-2009, 08:07 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:





.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.


Where in the world did you get that notion from that I was comparing Tice to Bevell? You may want to re-read that again. It was a comparison between Loney & Bevell. Now you can laugh at yourself for making such a knee-jerk reaction without thoroughly reading it first.

Tice had Loney as an OC & Loney did that job plus was the O-line coach. Red would not pay for Tice to hire an OC, made him promote within & then would not allow Tice to hire a replacement O-line coach. Ergo Loney spent half his time coaching the o-line & the other half being the OC.

Childress has both a full time OC, plus at least 1 full time coach for the o-line. He has 23 coaches working for him.

Tice never had the luxury of 23 coaches. In fact, I think he had a lot less.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
:P


Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

singersp
01-09-2009, 08:17 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:







.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.


Where in the world did you get that notion from that I was comparing Tice to Bevell? You may want to re-read that again. It was a comparison between Loney & Bevell. Now you can laugh at yourself for making such a knee-jerk reaction without thoroughly reading it first.

Tice had Loney as an OC & Loney did that job plus was the O-line coach. Red would not pay for Tice to hire an OC, made him promote within & then would not allow Tice to hire a replacement O-line coach. Ergo Loney spent half his time coaching the o-line & the other half being the OC.

Childress has both a full time OC, plus at least 1 full time coach for the o-line. He has 23 coaches working for him.

Tice never had the luxury of 23 coaches. In fact, I think he had a lot less.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
:P


Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.


Again, that's not comparing Tice TO Bevell. That's comparing Tice's OC to Childress' OC.

Loney had double duties, Bevell doesn't even have a full one.

Marrdro
01-09-2009, 08:23 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:









.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.


Where in the world did you get that notion from that I was comparing Tice to Bevell? You may want to re-read that again. It was a comparison between Loney & Bevell. Now you can laugh at yourself for making such a knee-jerk reaction without thoroughly reading it first.

Tice had Loney as an OC & Loney did that job plus was the O-line coach. Red would not pay for Tice to hire an OC, made him promote within & then would not allow Tice to hire a replacement O-line coach. Ergo Loney spent half his time coaching the o-line & the other half being the OC.

Childress has both a full time OC, plus at least 1 full time coach for the o-line. He has 23 coaches working for him.

Tice never had the luxury of 23 coaches. In fact, I think he had a lot less.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
:P


Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.


Again, that's not comparing Tice TO Bevell. That's comparing Tice's OC to Childress' OC.

Loney had double duties, Bevell doesn't even have a full one.

Explain it away however you want, when I read it first I almost sheeeyatch myself...... :o ;D

singersp
01-09-2009, 08:26 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:











.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.


Where in the world did you get that notion from that I was comparing Tice to Bevell? You may want to re-read that again. It was a comparison between Loney & Bevell. Now you can laugh at yourself for making such a knee-jerk reaction without thoroughly reading it first.

Tice had Loney as an OC & Loney did that job plus was the O-line coach. Red would not pay for Tice to hire an OC, made him promote within & then would not allow Tice to hire a replacement O-line coach. Ergo Loney spent half his time coaching the o-line & the other half being the OC.

Childress has both a full time OC, plus at least 1 full time coach for the o-line. He has 23 coaches working for him.

Tice never had the luxury of 23 coaches. In fact, I think he had a lot less.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
:P


Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.


Again, that's not comparing Tice TO Bevell. That's comparing Tice's OC to Childress' OC.

Loney had double duties, Bevell doesn't even have a full one.

Explain it away however you want, when I read it first I almost sheeeyatch myself...... :o ;D


I'm beginning to think "The Buffalo Theory" isn't working for you anymore.

What comparison did I make between Tice & Bevell?

Marrdro
01-09-2009, 08:34 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:













.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.


Where in the world did you get that notion from that I was comparing Tice to Bevell? You may want to re-read that again. It was a comparison between Loney & Bevell. Now you can laugh at yourself for making such a knee-jerk reaction without thoroughly reading it first.

Tice had Loney as an OC & Loney did that job plus was the O-line coach. Red would not pay for Tice to hire an OC, made him promote within & then would not allow Tice to hire a replacement O-line coach. Ergo Loney spent half his time coaching the o-line & the other half being the OC.

Childress has both a full time OC, plus at least 1 full time coach for the o-line. He has 23 coaches working for him.

Tice never had the luxury of 23 coaches. In fact, I think he had a lot less.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
:P


Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.


Again, that's not comparing Tice TO Bevell. That's comparing Tice's OC to Childress' OC.

Loney had double duties, Bevell doesn't even have a full one.

Explain it away however you want, when I read it first I almost sheeeyatch myself...... :o ;D


I'm beginning to think "The Buffalo Theory" isn't working for you anymore.

What comparison did I make between Tice & Bevell?

After you explained what you were trying to say it doesn't.
But when I read it the first time it did.
Again, I almost sheeeeyat myself.

singersp
01-09-2009, 08:43 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:















.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.


Where in the world did you get that notion from that I was comparing Tice to Bevell? You may want to re-read that again. It was a comparison between Loney & Bevell. Now you can laugh at yourself for making such a knee-jerk reaction without thoroughly reading it first.

Tice had Loney as an OC & Loney did that job plus was the O-line coach. Red would not pay for Tice to hire an OC, made him promote within & then would not allow Tice to hire a replacement O-line coach. Ergo Loney spent half his time coaching the o-line & the other half being the OC.

Childress has both a full time OC, plus at least 1 full time coach for the o-line. He has 23 coaches working for him.

Tice never had the luxury of 23 coaches. In fact, I think he had a lot less.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
:P


Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.


Again, that's not comparing Tice TO Bevell. That's comparing Tice's OC to Childress' OC.

Loney had double duties, Bevell doesn't even have a full one.

Explain it away however you want, when I read it first I almost sheeeyatch myself...... :o ;D


I'm beginning to think "The Buffalo Theory" isn't working for you anymore.

What comparison did I make between Tice & Bevell?

After you explained what you were trying to say it doesn't.
But when I read it the first time it did.
Again, I almost sheeeeyat myself.


http://www.pmcaregivers.com/images/depends5.jpg

Marrdro
01-09-2009, 08:44 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:

















.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.


Where in the world did you get that notion from that I was comparing Tice to Bevell? You may want to re-read that again. It was a comparison between Loney & Bevell. Now you can laugh at yourself for making such a knee-jerk reaction without thoroughly reading it first.

Tice had Loney as an OC & Loney did that job plus was the O-line coach. Red would not pay for Tice to hire an OC, made him promote within & then would not allow Tice to hire a replacement O-line coach. Ergo Loney spent half his time coaching the o-line & the other half being the OC.

Childress has both a full time OC, plus at least 1 full time coach for the o-line. He has 23 coaches working for him.

Tice never had the luxury of 23 coaches. In fact, I think he had a lot less.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
:P


Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.


Again, that's not comparing Tice TO Bevell. That's comparing Tice's OC to Childress' OC.

Loney had double duties, Bevell doesn't even have a full one.

Explain it away however you want, when I read it first I almost sheeeyatch myself...... :o ;D


I'm beginning to think "The Buffalo Theory" isn't working for you anymore.

What comparison did I make between Tice & Bevell?

After you explained what you were trying to say it doesn't.
But when I read it the first time it did.
Again, I almost sheeeeyat myself.


http://www.pmcaregivers.com/images/depends5.jpg

LOL.
Yours still my dog........ ;D(Lots of smiley faces) ;D

(Can't remember who told me that on here but I thought I would use it here.)

singersp
01-09-2009, 08:53 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


After you explained what you were trying to say it doesn't.
But when I read it the first time it did.
Again, I almost sheeeeyat myself.


http://www.pmcaregivers.com/images/depends5.jpg

LOL.
Yours still my dog........ ;D(Lots of smiley faces) ;D

(Can't remember who told me that on here but I thought I would use it here.)


Meaning "best friend" or something you have that you can kick around once in awhile if you feel the need?

ejmat
01-09-2009, 10:21 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


























....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.



Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!


You can continue to use that argument and I will continue to tell you 2nd stringers in the NFL does not mean they are bad players.
They are the same people that substitute in and out of games with the starters.
Just as Robison does for Edwards.
Just as Gordon Sapp does in the nickle defense.
It is one thing to try to make a point but at least know a little something about it when you do.
Your comments that state "they only beat a 2nd string team" is a load of crap.

No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?


Not necessarily.
Ward doesn't start and he had better numbers than Jacobs in the Giants backfield.
Chester is a better all around back then AP but AP starts.
You are right their 2nd string OL beat our 1st string DL.
I'm glad you use that as an example.
There is such a thing as a bad game and just because that happened doesn't mean our DL sucks.
Hell we had our best run stopper out of the game.
That helped open up the passing game.
By the way, Allen was doing a little more covering that game as well.

Please ell me what 3rd stringers were in.
Becasue if you are going to say players at skilled positions I will tell you there is not much difference in talent between David Hixon and Sinorece Moss or Manningham.


Exactly the problem. Hixon was there 4th WR.
Plax, Toomer, Smith and Hixon. They subbed him and brought in Moss and Manningham to beat up on us. That's like us playing Jamar Johnson. This is my point. We did get out played by their 2nd unit. Mu point in all this and we're getting away from that is that this "come back victory" is tainted. If you see this as progress because we came back against Sinorice Moss and Manningham...we are worst off than I thought.


Without Plaxico there isn't much difference between talent from their 2nd to their 5th.
If they can run routes and catch the ball who cares what their names are or what place they are on the bench.
You don't seem to get that.
You can continue to think it's tainted or whatever you want to do.
But you don't understand the talent level of a team.
The Giants are deep as they come and there is a reason they won the superbowl last year.

bleedpurple
01-09-2009, 10:29 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:



















.

Since he was "Almost" hired he has "Almost" faded away to insignificance.
By the way, why do you keep ignoring the stats I keep posting that shows the team degenerated under Tice but got better under the Chiller (statistically)?


Apples and Oranges.

When Tice took over the team was in disarray after Green left and the Owner was beginning to dismantle and threatening to move the team. Over the span of time Tice was there he endured HOF players being traded for peanuts, a total lack of commitment from the organization to sign quality free agents and having a skeleton staff for scouting and coaching.

If you have convinced yourself that Childress is such a quality coach that he could have done better than Tice under those conditions I would like to hear your reasoning.

Yes, Tice was not a great coach and I didn't think he would ever get us a SB so I wasn't heartbroken to see him go, but to say Childress is a better coach because his team is putting up better stats is very misleading

Misleading to what extent?

Better stats with rooks on the field.
Better stats implementing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
Better stats without a QB
Vast improvements on Defensive side of the ball with 2 different Coordinators

Seriously, you can't really be trying to say that Tice was a better coach that Childress unless you are gonna take a myopic view as some on here and only tout things like challenges, 2 minute drills and such.


No, I am looking at the support that each got from the FO during their tenure. Childress has gotten as many FA signings as any coach in the league. Tice got squat and still managed to put out a team that was as marginally average as Childress has. I am saying nothing about the challenges or 2 minute drills. I am talking about one ownership group that was having a going out of ownership liquidation sale who didn't give a pooh about the team as long as he made a buck selling them and whether Childress would have had the successes he has had under those same conditions. I do not, maybe you do.


Not to mention Childress had an open pocket book to bring in any fricken coordinators/coaches he wanted. Money was not an object.

Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.

When Tice was allowed to go outside for coaches, McCombs gave him a bunch of coupons for free or discounted foods at fast food chains with which to acquire their services.

Now were comparing Tice and Bevell.......LOL, I almost sheeeeyat myself...... ;D ;D ;D

Anyway, now that I quite laughing so hard.........

Why hasn't he landed in another spot were the checkbook is/will be opened?
Sure Big Red was a cheap bastard and Tice did as best he could with what he had, but it still warrants pondering why Tice hasn't gotten a shot at HC duties or atleast a shot at O-Coord someplace.

Hell, he has been demoted twice in Jax.


Where in the world did you get that notion from that I was comparing Tice to Bevell? You may want to re-read that again. It was a comparison between Loney & Bevell. Now you can laugh at yourself for making such a knee-jerk reaction without thoroughly reading it first.

Tice had Loney as an OC & Loney did that job plus was the O-line coach. Red would not pay for Tice to hire an OC, made him promote within & then would not allow Tice to hire a replacement O-line coach. Ergo Loney spent half his time coaching the o-line & the other half being the OC.

Childress has both a full time OC, plus at least 1 full time coach for the o-line. He has 23 coaches working for him.

Tice never had the luxury of 23 coaches. In fact, I think he had a lot less.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
:P


Tice had to acquire his from within or do without. Do you not recall our OC had to wear two hats? OLine coach & OC.

Last time I checked, Bevell doesn't do both.


Again, that's not comparing Tice TO Bevell. That's comparing Tice's OC to Childress' OC.

Loney had double duties, Bevell doesn't even have a full one.

Explain it away however you want, when I read it first I almost sheeeyatch myself...... :o ;D


I'm beginning to think "The Buffalo Theory" isn't working for you anymore.

What comparison did I make between Tice & Bevell?

After you explained what you were trying to say it doesn't.
But when I read it the first time it did.
Again, I almost sheeeeyat myself.


http://www.pmcaregivers.com/images/depends5.jpg

LOL.
Yours still my dog........ ;D(Lots of smiley faces) ;D

(Can't remember who told me that on here but I thought I would use it here.)


i believe that was me.. i told you that after one of our many bruhaha's... that got a little heated!

kevoncox
01-09-2009, 10:58 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:




























....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.



Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!


You can continue to use that argument and I will continue to tell you 2nd stringers in the NFL does not mean they are bad players.
They are the same people that substitute in and out of games with the starters.
Just as Robison does for Edwards.
Just as Gordon Sapp does in the nickle defense.
It is one thing to try to make a point but at least know a little something about it when you do.
Your comments that state "they only beat a 2nd string team" is a load of crap.

No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?


Not necessarily.
Ward doesn't start and he had better numbers than Jacobs in the Giants backfield.
Chester is a better all around back then AP but AP starts.
You are right their 2nd string OL beat our 1st string DL.
I'm glad you use that as an example.
There is such a thing as a bad game and just because that happened doesn't mean our DL sucks.
Hell we had our best run stopper out of the game.
That helped open up the passing game.
By the way, Allen was doing a little more covering that game as well.

Please ell me what 3rd stringers were in.
Becasue if you are going to say players at skilled positions I will tell you there is not much difference in talent between David Hixon and Sinorece Moss or Manningham.


Exactly the problem. Hixon was there 4th WR.
Plax, Toomer, Smith and Hixon. They subbed him and brought in Moss and Manningham to beat up on us. That's like us playing Jamar Johnson. This is my point. We did get out played by their 2nd unit. Mu point in all this and we're getting away from that is that this "come back victory" is tainted. If you see this as progress because we came back against Sinorice Moss and Manningham...we are worst off than I thought.


Without Plaxico there isn't much difference between talent from their 2nd to their 5th.
If they can run routes and catch the ball who cares what their names are or what place they are on the bench.
You don't seem to get that.
You can continue to think it's tainted or whatever you want to do.
But you don't understand the talent level of a team.
The Giants are deep as they come and there is a reason they won the superbowl last year.


Your joking right? I mean do you honestly believe that their # 5 on the depth chart is as good as Toomer or Smith?
Toomer and Smith? The Giants has about as much depth as the average team in the league. The difference is their coaches use the peices that they have very well. Mathias was playign Lb last year because they didn't have a fix at LB. This year Osi gets hurt and he moves back. They have a staff that has the ability to caoch their players up and put them in position to play their best. I'm sorry but the simple fact is, no matter who we are laying( the 95 cowboys) your 1st stringers should not be struggling vs a teams 2nd string unit that gets half the snaps of the first stringers and mostly practice the other team's plays all weak long. So yes, that come back victory is BS. We are at a crossroads. You believe Childress was a magician for beating another teams bench players and I think we came back mostly because we were playing lessor talent. Lets agree to disagree and we can both be right( even though you're wrong :P) Did I mention that Ross and Boss didn't play?

To be honest the 2nd stringer point is moot. If there isn't much of a difference between their starters and their 2nd stringers then why is it that when our 2nd stringer go into the game they look lost, confused befuddled. I won't accept their youth as an answer because the Gmen have - Mario (Rookie) Moss (3rd year player) The saftey they drafted this year form MIA( rookie) and a bunch of other players all played lights out against us. This tells me that they are coached and prepared better than we are. So we still get back to my original point. This staff is below average.

Purple Floyd
01-09-2009, 11:02 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


That's bullshit!

I remember games where we came from behind to win the game. Most notably coming back from a 17-0 halftime score to beat GB with a 53 or 54 YD Edinger FG.



How quickly they forget those subtle facts

kevoncox
01-09-2009, 11:06 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:



No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?


Before you go spouting off that everyone on their o-line that played in the second half were 2nd stringers, please provide us with the names of the O-line they played in the 1st half, then do the same for the 2nd half.

Also, please provide a link to the source of said information.

Granted, some starters were pulled, but don't try selling us the fact that every player we faced in the 2nd half were all 2nd stringers, because that's kaka del rio.

Derrick Ward, for one, is a half of a tandem team with Jacobs & he played in the 2nd half.


I never said all of them we swapped just most. Secondly, where in god's name would I find a list of Oline that played. It's not like skilled players where their stats are measured ( outside of pancakes). So why ask for something that you and I know is near impossible to find. It's can't be disputed, we played a lessor team in the 2nd half and almost lost to them. I would think that meant we got out coached. Did I mention that their kicker missed a 48 yarder that would have sealed the game? LOL...We got lucky and people are talking about how great we were for coming back in this game

AKViking
01-09-2009, 12:50 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:






























....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.



Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!


You can continue to use that argument and I will continue to tell you 2nd stringers in the NFL does not mean they are bad players.
They are the same people that substitute in and out of games with the starters.
Just as Robison does for Edwards.
Just as Gordon Sapp does in the nickle defense.
It is one thing to try to make a point but at least know a little something about it when you do.
Your comments that state "they only beat a 2nd string team" is a load of crap.

No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?


Not necessarily.
Ward doesn't start and he had better numbers than Jacobs in the Giants backfield.
Chester is a better all around back then AP but AP starts.
You are right their 2nd string OL beat our 1st string DL.
I'm glad you use that as an example.
There is such a thing as a bad game and just because that happened doesn't mean our DL sucks.
Hell we had our best run stopper out of the game.
That helped open up the passing game.
By the way, Allen was doing a little more covering that game as well.

Please ell me what 3rd stringers were in.
Becasue if you are going to say players at skilled positions I will tell you there is not much difference in talent between David Hixon and Sinorece Moss or Manningham.


Exactly the problem. Hixon was there 4th WR.
Plax, Toomer, Smith and Hixon. They subbed him and brought in Moss and Manningham to beat up on us. That's like us playing Jamar Johnson. This is my point. We did get out played by their 2nd unit. Mu point in all this and we're getting away from that is that this "come back victory" is tainted. If you see this as progress because we came back against Sinorice Moss and Manningham...we are worst off than I thought.


Without Plaxico there isn't much difference between talent from their 2nd to their 5th.
If they can run routes and catch the ball who cares what their names are or what place they are on the bench.
You don't seem to get that.
You can continue to think it's tainted or whatever you want to do.
But you don't understand the talent level of a team.
The Giants are deep as they come and there is a reason they won the superbowl last year.


Your joking right? I mean do you honestly believe that their # 5 on the depth chart is as good as Toomer or Smith?
Toomer and Smith? The Giants has about as much depth as the average team in the league. The difference is their coaches use the peices that they have very well. Mathias was playign Lb last year because they didn't have a fix at LB. This year Osi gets hurt and he moves back. They have a staff that has the ability to caoch their players up and put them in position to play their best. I'm sorry but the simple fact is, no matter who we are laying( the 95 cowboys) your 1st stringers should not be struggling vs a teams 2nd string unit that gets half the snaps of the first stringers and mostly practice the other team's plays all weak long. So yes, that come back victory is BS. We are at a crossroads. You believe Childress was a magician for beating another teams bench players and I think we came back mostly because we were playing lessor talent. Lets agree to disagree and we can both be right( even though you're wrong :P) Did I mention that Ross and Boss didn't play?

To be honest the 2nd stringer point is moot. If there isn't much of a difference between their starters and their 2nd stringers then why is it that when our 2nd stringer go into the game they look lost, confused befuddled. I won't accept their youth as an answer because the Gmen have - Mario (Rookie) Moss (3rd year player) The saftey they drafted this year form MIA( rookie) and a bunch of other players all played lights out against us. This tells me that they are coached and prepared better than we are. So we still get back to my original point. This staff is below average.





Have to say i agree with Kev.
If you think the ST coach should be retained, you are a total idiot. ST was a glaring weakness from beginning to end, PERIOD! The offense this year, was nearly as bad as Tice's brag about how the offense hadn't changed since he played! The unpredictability of this team left with Billick, without a doubt! Who ever called the majority of the plays should be fired, or at the very least demoted. That means if Bevel called them, he needs to go back to college ball and learn a thing or two. If it was Chili then Mr. Wilf needs to call Chilli into the office and give him the "I'm the boss speech"; meaning: "I sign the checks and my offense ain't getting it done with this coordinator. So either you (Chilli) go or the OC goes! And if I keep you (Chilli) your ass better make some big steps before game 5 of '09 or you'll be drawing unemployment!!" I like the discipline side of Childress, but it is plainly evident he either cannot or will not adapt in a game. He's about as flexible as an 80 yr old quadraplegic. The NFL ain't a game for crabby old men who have to have EVERYTHING their way! It's called survival of the fittest, adapt and survive, stay immobile and die (kinda like our offense). Point being: Cilli ain't the GM, so he needs to be given an ultimatum: Get it done or you're done. Not a Chilli hater just not in favor of rewarding midiocre results on a team with above average talent. And the Vikings do have above average talent at most positions! Yeah Qb is questionable, but this was a disappointing season by the coaching staff with a team of great potential. There is a fine line between letting a coach wallow in his third year and making him accountable. It's time for Chilli to stand up and be accountable, for his mistakes and those of his staff. And if his staff are not up to the task than he should let them go or leave with them, that is accountability as it should be with honest people.

i_bleed_purple
01-09-2009, 01:35 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


That's bullshit!

I remember games where we came from behind to win the game. Most notably coming back from a 17-0 halftime score to beat GB with a 53 or 54 YD Edinger FG.



How quickly they forget those subtle facts


name one other game.
one in 5 years isn't very good.

Purple Floyd
01-09-2009, 01:53 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


That's bullshit!

I remember games where we came from behind to win the game. Most notably coming back from a 17-0 halftime score to beat GB with a 53 or 54 YD Edinger FG.



How quickly they forget those subtle facts


name one other game.
one in 5 years isn't very good.


Detroit Lions 19 at Minnesota Vikings 22
Sunday, November 21, 2004

Monday, November 21, 2005
Minnesota Vikings 20, Green Bay Packers 17

Sunday, October 13, 2002
Detroit Lions 24, Minnesota Vikings 31

Saturday, December 21, 2002
Miami Dolphins 17, Minnesota Vikings 20

Overlord
01-09-2009, 04:25 PM
I haven't seen this option discussed for Birk, and wanted to throw it out there: the franchise tag.

I was originally thinking of this from the perspective of a center, and I figured that the franchise tag value might be reasonable (I would guess ~$5-6 million).
However, it appears (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag) that the actual value is compiled using all offensive line positions.
That would move it closer to $8 million.


Nonetheless, could it be worth it to lock up a pretty good center for the year without any long-term guarantees?

Prophet
01-09-2009, 04:32 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


I haven't seen this option discussed for Birk, and wanted to throw it out there: the franchise tag.

I was originally thinking of this from the perspective of a center, and I figured that the franchise tag value might be reasonable (I would guess ~$5-6 million).
However, it appears (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag) that the actual value is compiled using all offensive line positions.
That would move it closer to $8 million.


Nonetheless, could it be worth it to lock up a pretty good center for the year without any long-term guarantees?


Would be an option.
It seems like the crux of it is more along the lines of whether the FO wants to keep him.
Personally, I think it's the media hacks making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Childress is mum because they are analyzing the roster, needs, available FAs, draft, and are not in the position yet to say who stays and who goes.

kevoncox
01-09-2009, 04:33 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:





Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


That's kaka del rio!

I remember games where we came from behind to win the game. Most notably coming back from a 17-0 halftime score to beat GB with a 53 or 54 YD Edinger FG.



How quickly they forget those subtle facts


name one other game.
one in 5 years isn't very good.


Detroit Lions 19 at Minnesota Vikings 22
Sunday, November 21, 2004

Monday, November 21, 2005
Minnesota Vikings 20, Green Bay Packers 17

Sunday, October 13, 2002
Detroit Lions 24, Minnesota Vikings 31

Saturday, December 21, 2002
Miami Dolphins 17, Minnesota Vikings 20




Was Tice the HC for 5 years?
How long was he hear?

Ltrey33
01-09-2009, 04:43 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:







Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


That's kaka del rio!

I remember games where we came from behind to win the game. Most notably coming back from a 17-0 halftime score to beat GB with a 53 or 54 YD Edinger FG.



How quickly they forget those subtle facts


name one other game.
one in 5 years isn't very good.


Detroit Lions 19 at Minnesota Vikings 22
Sunday, November 21, 2004

Monday, November 21, 2005
Minnesota Vikings 20, Green Bay Packers 17

Sunday, October 13, 2002
Detroit Lions 24, Minnesota Vikings 31

Saturday, December 21, 2002
Miami Dolphins 17, Minnesota Vikings 20




Was Tice the HC for 5 years?
How long was he hear?


I think he was here four years. He took over during the last game of 2001 and was fired after the '05-'06 season. (I think)

jessejames09
01-09-2009, 05:02 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


I haven't seen this option discussed for Birk, and wanted to throw it out there: the franchise tag.

I was originally thinking of this from the perspective of a center, and I figured that the franchise tag value might be reasonable (I would guess ~$5-6 million).
However, it appears (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag) that the actual value is compiled using all offensive line positions.
That would move it closer to $8 million.


Nonetheless, could it be worth it to lock up a pretty good center for the year without any long-term guarantees?


We could have resigned him for a lot less, the team obviously doesn't want him. I don't even think they started negotiations.

Birk is a Minnesota guy, I'm sure he would like nothing more than to be offered a fair contract and retire here.

Most likely scenario is we let him hit FA and only resign if he can't get good money elsewhere.

PackSux!
01-09-2009, 06:17 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


I haven't seen this option discussed for Birk, and wanted to throw it out there: the franchise tag.

I was originally thinking of this from the perspective of a center, and I figured that the franchise tag value might be reasonable (I would guess ~$5-6 million).
However, it appears (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag) that the actual value is compiled using all offensive line positions.
That would move it closer to $8 million.


Nonetheless, could it be worth it to lock up a pretty good center for the year without any long-term guarantees?


We could have resigned him for a lot less, the team obviously doesn't want him. I don't even think they started negotiations.

Birk is a Minnesota guy, I'm sure he would like nothing more than to be offered a fair contract and retire here.

Most likely scenario is we let him hit FA and only resign if he can't get good money elsewhere.


If Birk hits free agency then he is gone.
There will be teams that will make big offers to Matt birk in free agency, and some will be so big that there is no way we will match or beat.

I hope Birk sticks around another year or two.


If Birk leaves we better get a veteran quarterback that can read a defense because I would hate to see Jackson and a rookie center on the field at the same time.

Marrdro
01-10-2009, 09:45 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


After you explained what you were trying to say it doesn't.
But when I read it the first time it did.
Again, I almost sheeeeyat myself.


http://www.pmcaregivers.com/images/depends5.jpg

LOL.
Yours still my dog........ ;D(Lots of smiley faces) ;D

(Can't remember who told me that on here but I thought I would use it here.)


Meaning "best friend" or something you have that you can kick around once in awhile if you feel the need?

Best friend my friend.

Besides, I never kick my dogs.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/Marrdro/Dogs003.jpg

Marrdro
01-10-2009, 09:47 AM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


i believe that was me.. i told you that after one of our many bruhaha's... that got a little heated!

Heated?
A discussion with me?
Never..... ;D

ejmat
01-10-2009, 09:55 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:






























....Honestly, give Tice this offense and defense and I know we wouldn't be beating the Lions by two points. We are under performing.

LMAO!
Yeah, the same guy that when his contract wasn't renewed he didn't get a sniff for the six open HC positions.
The same guy that went to the Jaguars as the assistant head coach/offense in 2005 and then primarily focuses on the offensive line?
The same guy that got demoted in that gig to work on coaching the TEs?
I find that extremely laughable.


He does have a lot more years under his belt in the coaching realm though.
He still has no coordinator experience, oh wait, he was a mediocre HC (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt).
People like to chime in now and say that it was because Redneck was tight with the money.
That was the case, but, he went backward in his career since that time.
I honestly believe he will never ever get a chance to be an HC again and I even believe he will never even make it to a coordinator positions.

What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah, Matt Birk.
Carry on.


I never said Tice was a great coach but he is better than Chilly. If Childress got fired today, where would he go?
Qb coach for Eagles. I don't think any of the teams looking for a HC would call him up. Also, to correct your statment. Tice was interviewed and almost got the Jets job a few years back.


He didn't almost get anything.
He almost got an inteview for the Dolphons HC gig too.

There is no way that Tice is a better HC than Childress.
Their preparations to coach aren't even in the same ballpark.
Tice got an HC job as an interim with no coordinator experience.
The future will answer the question though.
If Childress were fired today we don't know what would happen.
We also don't know how his career will pan out.
He could become one of the greats or he could be on a task force looking for Hoffa's body in the future.
We will find out.
We know Tice went backwards in his career so far, Childress has been climbing the ranks throughout his career.


Tice's team had a 2 min offense that could beat a HS team. The other one doesn't.
Actually, Tice an interium coach has reached as far as childress has in his career. Won a wildcard game and lost to the Eagles in the next round.


Really?
Tice had a good 2 minute offense?
How many games did they under his regime come back and win it in the last 2 minutes of a game?


A few at home 0 on the road.
Now I ask you about Chilly?
Also th e2 min offense isn't all about winning at the end of the game. You forget the end of the half when the score can swing 14 points.


I am not forgetting that but you are correct it wasn't mentioned in my post.
As far as Chilly is concerned this is the first year in a few where we have come back in the final minutes of the game or last drive.
It was nice to see for a change.



Is that is what we accept as a good job now? Coming back from being down? Is that our mesuring stick against history?Who the hell are we the Lions? We are the Vikings!!


good coaches will need to do taht, Tice never could.
No team ever in the history of the game will be ahead in all of their games.
You need a coach that can rally the team and lead a comeback at the end of a game.
If you don' tthink thats important, then I truly don't know what to think about you.


We didnt't do that cosnistantly with Tice and we still don't do it consistantly with Chilly. I don't think you have legs to stand on here. It's not like we have had some amazing comebacks under Chilly. So we came back to win against David Carr and the G-Men send string and it took a 50 yarder to do it. This makes Chilly some kind of Saint?


What about the other games they came back in this year?
It was just the Giants.
Regardless of who it is it is a meansurement of heart and reiliancy.
I am pretty tired of people using the Giants 2nd stringers to try and downgrade what the VIkings did.
It makes no sense.
Remember, the VIkings led when the starters were in.
The Giants 2nd stringers talent is not much different than the 1st string.
Out of the 3 offensive possessions the Vikings had against their "second stringers" (which by the way all get playing time in rotations for every other game) they scored on 2 of them.
The only one they didn't was due to a INT in the endzone.



Congrats we ahve proven we can come back against a teams 2nd stringers. Congrats. Yes we had a 1 pt lead over the Gmen starters. Surely that was goign to continue because their starters are of lesser talent than their 2nd stringers...Oh wait..they arent!!!


You can continue to use that argument and I will continue to tell you 2nd stringers in the NFL does not mean they are bad players.
They are the same people that substitute in and out of games with the starters.
Just as Robison does for Edwards.
Just as Gordon Sapp does in the nickle defense.
It is one thing to try to make a point but at least know a little something about it when you do.
Your comments that state "they only beat a 2nd string team" is a load of crap.

No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?


Not necessarily.
Ward doesn't start and he had better numbers than Jacobs in the Giants backfield.
Chester is a better all around back then AP but AP starts.
You are right their 2nd string OL beat our 1st string DL.
I'm glad you use that as an example.
There is such a thing as a bad game and just because that happened doesn't mean our DL sucks.
Hell we had our best run stopper out of the game.
That helped open up the passing game.
By the way, Allen was doing a little more covering that game as well.

Please ell me what 3rd stringers were in.
Becasue if you are going to say players at skilled positions I will tell you there is not much difference in talent between David Hixon and Sinorece Moss or Manningham.


Exactly the problem. Hixon was there 4th WR.
Plax, Toomer, Smith and Hixon. They subbed him and brought in Moss and Manningham to beat up on us. That's like us playing Jamar Johnson. This is my point. We did get out played by their 2nd unit. Mu point in all this and we're getting away from that is that this "come back victory" is tainted. If you see this as progress because we came back against Sinorice Moss and Manningham...we are worst off than I thought.


Without Plaxico there isn't much difference between talent from their 2nd to their 5th.
If they can run routes and catch the ball who cares what their names are or what place they are on the bench.
You don't seem to get that.
You can continue to think it's tainted or whatever you want to do.
But you don't understand the talent level of a team.
The Giants are deep as they come and there is a reason they won the superbowl last year.


Your joking right? I mean do you honestly believe that their # 5 on the depth chart is as good as Toomer or Smith?
Toomer and Smith? The Giants has about as much depth as the average team in the league. The difference is their coaches use the peices that they have very well. Mathias was playign Lb last year because they didn't have a fix at LB. This year Osi gets hurt and he moves back. They have a staff that has the ability to caoch their players up and put them in position to play their best. I'm sorry but the simple fact is, no matter who we are laying( the 95 cowboys) your 1st stringers should not be struggling vs a teams 2nd string unit that gets half the snaps of the first stringers and mostly practice the other team's plays all weak long. So yes, that come back victory is BS. We are at a crossroads. You believe Childress was a magician for beating another teams bench players and I think we came back mostly because we were playing lessor talent. Lets agree to disagree and we can both be right( even though you're wrong :P) Did I mention that Ross and Boss didn't play?

To be honest the 2nd stringer point is moot. If there isn't much of a difference between their starters and their 2nd stringers then why is it that when our 2nd stringer go into the game they look lost, confused befuddled. I won't accept their youth as an answer because the Gmen have - Mario (Rookie) Moss (3rd year player) The saftey they drafted this year form MIA( rookie) and a bunch of other players all played lights out against us. This tells me that they are coached and prepared better than we are. So we still get back to my original point. This staff is below average.





Yes I do believe there isn't much of a differnce between their 5th WR and Toomer at this point in his career.
We are talking talent not intelligence.
Toomer is aging.
I am not going to agree all of our coaching staff is below average.
I do believe some are.
I never stated (please find where I do) that our coaching staff is above average.
The only hting I've done is stated they are not as bad as some of you make them out to be and we have only spoken about Childress.
I never even stated he was better than Coughlin.


My entire point as I stated on several occasions is that he has grown every year and he has the team headed in the right direction.
That has been my original point and I have backed that point up on several occasions.
You keep throwing in twists such as the Giant game then try to say "Let's get back on target with the title of the thread."
I have only repsonded to what you are trying to post.

If you want to compare their 2nd stringers and our second stringers that is where you change what I am saying.
Where did I say Allison isn't much difference than Berrian?
Please find that.
However I will agree with you in that they may have been better prepared by the coaching staff.
I will also say we have no way of knowing this because we don't see what goes on during the games which I will also agree is a good indicator.
But it is not 100% proof and that is why it is very difficult to blame Childress for everythiing like you and others do.

Stop trying to say I am annointing Childress as a God.
That isn't true.
What I am saying is he has been improving and the team is going in the right direction whether or not you or others want to admit it.

kevoncox
01-10-2009, 10:19 AM
"ejmat" wrote:



Yes I do believe there isn't much of a differnce between their 5th WR and Toomer at this point in his career.

We are talking talent not intelligence.
Toomer is aging.
I am not going to agree all of our coaching staff is below average.
I do believe some are.
I never stated (please find where I do) that our coaching staff is above average.
The only hting I've done is stated they are not as bad as some of you make them out to be and we have only spoken about Childress.
I never even stated he was better than Coughlin.



I watch Gmen games, and there is a big difference between Toomer and Manningham. Route running, consistency and Qb targets are 3 that jump out my head. Manningham will be good and he has a big name but at this point "Well Dressed" Toomer is in another class compared to him. Perharps out points have been diluted by the 14 pages of arguing. All I have been trying to say is that while Childress has improved, it
is not enough or it's happening too slow.


"ejmat" wrote:



My entire point as I stated on several occasions is that he has grown every year and he has the team headed in the right direction.
That has been my original point and I have backed that point up on several occasions.
You keep throwing in twists such as the Giant game then try to say "Let's get back on target with the title of the thread."
I have only repsonded to what you are trying to post.


"ejmat" wrote:



If you want to compare their 2nd stringers and our second stringers that is where you change what I am saying.
Where did I say Allison isn't much difference than Berrian?
Please find that.
However I will agree with you in that they may have been better prepared by the coaching staff.
I will also say we have no way of knowing this because we don't see what goes on during the games which I will also agree is a good indicator.
But it is not 100% proof and that is why it is very difficult to blame Childress for everythiing like you and others do.


"ejmat" wrote:



Stop trying to say I am annointing Childress as a God.
That isn't true.
What I am saying is he has been improving and the team is going in the right direction whether or not you or others want to admit it.

singersp
01-10-2009, 09:06 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:



No if they were better they would be starting. A nickle corner typically covers the teams 3rd best WR or in the case of the primary WR being placed in the slot, will move outside to where saftey help can cover their mistake. Every team has depth, however, if you think there isn't a drop off of talent from a teams 1st string to their 2nd you're kidding yourself. 2nd Stingers typically fill a need. Think Lance Johnstone for us a few years back. Great at what they do but typically don't/can't excel at all aspects of the game. We played their 2nd string Oline and couldn't dominante. Hell, could you imagine playing our 2nd string oline. Do we ahve a 2nd string Oline? We dissagree on a few things. You think that Mario Manningham is a starter worth, I beleive our first string CBs should dominante him.
Their 2nd string should not extending leads on us. We were losing by 2 scores and they took their foot of the gass and subbed even more people. Hell, some of them were third stringers. Embarrassed?


Before you go spouting off that everyone on their o-line that played in the second half were 2nd stringers, please provide us with the names of the O-line they played in the 1st half, then do the same for the 2nd half.

Also, please provide a link to the source of said information.

Granted, some starters were pulled, but don't try selling us the fact that every player we faced in the 2nd half were all 2nd stringers, because that's kaka del rio.

Derrick Ward, for one, is a half of a tandem team with Jacobs & he played in the 2nd half.


I never said all of them we swapped just most. Secondly, where in god's name would I find a list of Oline that played. It's not like skilled players where their stats are measured ( outside of pancakes). So why ask for something that you and I know is near impossible to find. It's can't be disputed, we played a lessor team in the 2nd half and almost lost to them. I would think that meant we got out coached. Did I mention that their kicker missed a 48 yarder that would have sealed the game? LOL...We got lucky and people are talking about how great we were for coming back in this game


I'm pretty damn sure you did mention that, but you did fail to mention TJ threw a pick in the endzone to Butler in the 3rd quarter, which was returned 47 yards & instead of us having a TD or a FG on that drive, it netted in the Giants getting 3 points of it.

BTW &FYI, Butler is the Giants starting SS, not a 2nd stringer.
;)

Yes Carney missed a FG, but last time I checked, he's a starter also & not a 2nd stringer.

Just like TJ's pick, both were unfortunate, but that's football

singersp
01-10-2009, 09:16 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


After you explained what you were trying to say it doesn't.
But when I read it the first time it did.
Again, I almost sheeeeyat myself.


http://www.pmcaregivers.com/images/depends5.jpg

LOL.
Yours still my dog........ ;D(Lots of smiley faces) ;D

(Can't remember who told me that on here but I thought I would use it here.)


Meaning "best friend" or something you have that you can kick around once in awhile if you feel the need?

Best friend my friend.

Besides, I never kick my dogs.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/Marrdro/Dogs003.jpg


LOL! Then why is the one wearing a flack jacket?

singersp
01-10-2009, 09:36 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:



Your joking right? I mean do you honestly believe that their # 5 on the depth chart is as good as Toomer or Smith?
Toomer and Smith? The Giants has about as much depth as the average team in the league. The difference is their coaches use the peices that they have very well. Mathias was playign Lb last year because they didn't have a fix at LB. This year Osi gets hurt and he moves back. They have a staff that has the ability to caoch their players up and put them in position to play their best. I'm sorry but the simple fact is, no matter who we are laying( the 95 cowboys) your 1st stringers should not be struggling vs a teams 2nd string unit that gets half the snaps of the first stringers and mostly practice the other team's plays all weak long. So yes, that come back victory is BS. We are at a crossroads. You believe Childress was a magician for beating another teams bench players and I think we came back mostly because we were playing lessor talent. Lets agree to disagree and we can both be right( even though you're wrong :P) Did I mention that Ross and Boss didn't play?

To be honest the 2nd stringer point is moot. If there isn't much of a difference between their starters and their 2nd stringers then why is it that when our 2nd stringer go into the game they look lost, confused befuddled. I won't accept their youth as an answer because the Gmen have - Mario (Rookie) Moss (3rd year player) The saftey they drafted this year form MIA( rookie) and a bunch of other players all played lights out against us. This tells me that they are coached and prepared better than we are. So we still get back to my original point. This staff is below average.




Apparently you oblivious to the fact that starters Toomer played in the 2nd half, as did RB Ward (one of their 1,000 yard rushers), safety Butler (who got the INT) & WR S. Smith.

Also, Boss & Ross were out because of injuries, not because they were starters & held out. If you are going to use injuries as a claim, then we can easily say we were without P-Will & EJ Henderson.

kevoncox
01-10-2009, 11:38 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:



Your joking right? I mean do you honestly believe that their # 5 on the depth chart is as good as Toomer or Smith?
Toomer and Smith? The Giants has about as much depth as the average team in the league. The difference is their coaches use the peices that they have very well. Mathias was playign Lb last year because they didn't have a fix at LB. This year Osi gets hurt and he moves back. They have a staff that has the ability to caoch their players up and put them in position to play their best. I'm sorry but the simple fact is, no matter who we are laying( the 95 cowboys) your 1st stringers should not be struggling vs a teams 2nd string unit that gets half the snaps of the first stringers and mostly practice the other team's plays all weak long. So yes, that come back victory is BS. We are at a crossroads. You believe Childress was a magician for beating another teams bench players and I think we came back mostly because we were playing lessor talent. Lets agree to disagree and we can both be right( even though you're wrong :P) Did I mention that Ross and Boss didn't play?

To be honest the 2nd stringer point is moot. If there isn't much of a difference between their starters and their 2nd stringers then why is it that when our 2nd stringer go into the game they look lost, confused befuddled. I won't accept their youth as an answer because the Gmen have - Mario (Rookie) Moss (3rd year player) The saftey they drafted this year form MIA( rookie) and a bunch of other players all played lights out against us. This tells me that they are coached and prepared better than we are. So we still get back to my original point. This staff is below average.




Apparently you oblivious to the fact that starters Toomer played in the 2nd half, as did RB Ward (one of their 1,000 yard rushers), safety Butler (who got the INT) & WR S. Smith.

Also, Boss & Ross were out because of injuries, not because they were starters & held out. If you are going to use injuries as a claim, then we can easily say we were without P-Will & EJ Henderson.


http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif
Again, we pulled off the win without the Giants best personel on the field. That's my point. You are suppose to win a close game when the other team plays some( but not all) not all of their 2nd stringers
::)

Marrdro
01-11-2009, 08:12 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


I haven't seen this option discussed for Birk, and wanted to throw it out there: the franchise tag.

I was originally thinking of this from the perspective of a center, and I figured that the franchise tag value might be reasonable (I would guess ~$5-6 million).
However, it appears (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag) that the actual value is compiled using all offensive line positions.
That would move it closer to $8 million.


Nonetheless, could it be worth it to lock up a pretty good center for the year without any long-term guarantees?


Would be an option.
It seems like the crux of it is more along the lines of whether the FO wants to keep him.
Personally, I think it's the media hacks making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Childress is mum because they are analyzing the roster, needs, available FAs, draft, and are not in the position yet to say who stays and who goes.

My bet is they will let him test the market and see what his value is.
If the market is low they are probably rationalizing he will sign for a small (2 year) contract at a lower price.

Again, at this time of the year I put alot of value on what the team has done in the past..........For this situation.....

1.
They normally resign thier key vets a year ahead of time.
The ones they don't are left to test the market.
2.
Seems they don't like anyone that rocks the boat (excuse the pun).
Matt really hasn't been one to toe the line and conform to what the organization wants all the time.
3. Have they addressed that position in the draft.

Would I be suprised if he is on the team next year?
No.
Would I besuprised if he isn't?
No.
If I was a betting man though, based on the indicators, Matt will play elsewere next year.

Marrdro
01-11-2009, 08:14 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:




After you explained what you were trying to say it doesn't.
But when I read it the first time it did.
Again, I almost sheeeeyat myself.


http://www.pmcaregivers.com/images/depends5.jpg

LOL.
Yours still my dog........ ;D(Lots of smiley faces) ;D

(Can't remember who told me that on here but I thought I would use it here.)


Meaning "best friend" or something you have that you can kick around once in awhile if you feel the need?

Best friend My Sexy Little Pixie.

Besides, I never kick my dogs.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/Marrdro/Dogs003.jpg


LOL! Then why is the one wearing a flack jacket?

Thats not a flack jacket.
Thats her holloween costume.
She was a "Hotdog" that year.

singersp
01-11-2009, 08:22 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:



Besides, I never kick my dogs.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/Marrdro/Dogs003.jpg


LOL! Then why is the one wearing a flack jacket?

Thats not a flack jacket.

Thats her holloween costume.
She was a "Hotdog" that year.


Clever man. Disguising a flack jacket as a hot dog & passing it off as a Halloween costume to keep PETA from banging down your door.

What was the "good" dogs costume? Was he cleverly disguised as a beagle?

Marrdro
01-11-2009, 08:25 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:



Besides, I never kick my dogs.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/Marrdro/Dogs003.jpg


LOL! Then why is the one wearing a flack jacket?

Thats not a flack jacket.

Thats her holloween costume.
She was a "Hotdog" that year.


Clever man. Disguising a flack jacket as a hot dog & passing it off as a Halloween costume to keep PETA from banging down your door.

What was the "good" dogs costume? Was he cleverly disguised as a beagle?

JD, Short for Jumping Dog (yup thats his registered name) wasn't really good on a leash at that time.
He wasn't allowed out.
He and I stayed and home and dished out candy to the little kids (and thier Moms).

VikingsTw
01-11-2009, 03:11 PM
I think its time to move on from Birk and move in the era of John Sullivan. I like the idea of fresh attitude, some new blood. While Birk had a solid season those key mistakes he made at seasons end nearly put the nail in the coffin for me. I see John Sullivan in all camps this offseason and our starter for 09. The one year in the meetings, weight room and around NFL Speed has prepared him as much he can be. I think he is very intelligent guy, I think he will make our Line better because God knows we must get better at pass protecting. I love his use of leverage, he's got a great center of gravity and uses tremendous leverage to his advantage.

Alot of fans I find are worried about the change but I think its a good thing, a positive. Same goes for Tyrell Johnson as SS.

BBQ Platypus
01-11-2009, 03:36 PM
I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.
I don't care HOW good the coaches say he is.
They said Tarvaris Jackson was good, too.

Forgive me if I fail to see how in the hell this makes any sense.

vikings_fan66
01-11-2009, 03:37 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


I think its time to move on from Birk and move in the era of John Sullivan. I like the idea of fresh attitude, some new blood. While Birk had a solid season those key mistakes he made at seasons end nearly put the nail in the coffin for me. I see John Sullivan in all camps this offseason and our starter for 09. The one year in the meetings, weight room and around NFL Speed has prepared him as much he can be. I think he is very intelligent guy, I think he will make our Line better because God knows we must get better at pass protecting. I love his use of leverage, he's got a great center of gravity and uses tremendous leverage to his advantage.

Alot of fans I find are worried about the change but I think its a good thing, a positive. Same goes for Tyrell Johnson as SS.



So true TW I agree with both those changes. I do not see us being hurt by moving on with these guys.

I truly think these 2 guys will make a positive difference if given the chance next season

VikingsTw
01-11-2009, 03:46 PM
"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.
I don't care HOW good the coaches say he is.
They said Tarvaris Jackson was good, too.

Forgive me if I fail to see how in the hell this makes any sense.


Thats understable, people fear the unknown but I really like Sullivan, a big fan. Birk just got done botching two snaps in criticle times at seasons end, our pass protection has been very inconsistent, its time for change.

IMO Tarvaris Jackson is good, inconsistent, sure, but still young and improving. I've seen TJack do some impressive things and some bonehead things but watching the playoffs its easy to understand that all QB's struggle with good defenses, including those bonehead throws. Eli has already thrown one INT to same guy TJack did and nearly through another one that was dropped. Yesterday Jake Delohme through something like 5 INT's. TJack's got plenty of work to do but if there is anything I know about TJack its his resilence and work ethic.

I'm much in opinion of Antonie Winfield when he said this thing is about experience and its tuff going against a defense like the Giants or the Eagles. Infact after that Giants INT he kept his composure, turned around and lead us right down the field for a score.

BBQ Platypus
01-11-2009, 03:49 PM
You CAN'T cite that botched snap as a reason.
Seriously?
Everyone makes mistakes.
It's not like he's been doing this all year long.

I don't like getting rid of commodities and bringing in guys who could go either way.
Especially since all we have as evidence of Sullivan's ability to play is the coach's word.
That's not good enough for me.
He could very well come in and not have a damned clue what he's doing.

If we get rid of Birk, we should bring in a veteran.
We can't afford to screw around at such an important position.

VikingMike
01-11-2009, 03:55 PM
"BBQ" wrote:


You CAN'T cite that botched snap as a reason.
Seriously?
Everyone makes mistakes.
It's not like he's been doing this all year long.

I don't like getting rid of commodities and bringing in guys who could go either way.
Especially since all we have as evidence of Sullivan's ability to play is the coach's word.
That's not good enough for me.
He could very well come in and not have a damned clue what he's doing.

If we get rid of Birk, we should bring in a veteran.
We can't afford to screw around at such an important position.



I agree...I don't like leaving a huge hole on the line...and Sullivan probably isn't light years ahead of Birk. :)

VikingsTw
01-11-2009, 04:44 PM
"BBQ" wrote:


You CAN'T cite that botched snap as a reason.
Seriously?
Everyone makes mistakes.
It's not like he's been doing this all year long.

I don't like getting rid of commodities and bringing in guys who could go either way.
Especially since all we have as evidence of Sullivan's ability to play is the coach's word.
That's not good enough for me.
He could very well come in and not have a damned clue what he's doing.

If we get rid of Birk, we should bring in a veteran.
We can't afford to screw around at such an important position.


I can site anything I want, what I'm most worried about is wether I'm being honest with what really happened, and guess what? It really happened, he botched two snaps in big games at the end of his contract year. Birk did a solid job this season, he has not been the best since his return from injury but I think this year was his best since then. The same can be said for Hutchison and McKinnie who were gol 'darnit good.

I think there is plenty of evidence that Sullivan can play based on his reseme he left on the field in college. Not only was Sullivan a dominant force at center he was one of best wrestlers in the country. The bottom line here is that Sullivan wins, not only will Childress tell you that but so will his ex coach Charlie Wise who gave high praise for Sullivan, one of major reasons we drafted him. Many people felt it was a disappointment that Sullivan even dropped to the 6th round in the draft, but thats the life of a Center.

I think Sullivan coming in and not having a clue is very unlikely, I believe he's a very intelligent guy thats going into his second season, he's been in meetings, he knows the offense, he's been in weight room, he knows the routine. Not to mention he already has a head start because Birk skipped those camps last offseason. In those camps the Coaches were very impressed with him, if you believe thats a lie thats your opinion.

Center is an important position, I think Sullivan is ready to take over. Yesterday I watched the Titans vs Ravens. The Titans were without there All-Pro center Kevin Mawae, his replacement had vertally no experience starting at the NFL level and played gol 'darnit good game against a very intense defense. I don't doubt the ability of a young guy to come in and do well, Matt Birk did it himself when Jeff Christy was let go to Free Agency.

I don't think we need a verteran Center, especailly considering everyone else on the line is a veteran. I don't see anyone on the FA market I like better than Sullivan but thats just me and my opinion.

P.S. If you have any doubt that Sullivan will be clueless I have a good feeling Birk would disagree. Birk has been quoted as complimenting the young guy as someone who is eager to learn, ask questions and has a bright future. There is no doubt in my mind Birk is the type of guy to be very helpfull.

kevoncox
01-11-2009, 06:47 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


You CAN'T cite that botched snap as a reason.
Seriously?
Everyone makes mistakes.
It's not like he's been doing this all year long.

I don't like getting rid of commodities and bringing in guys who could go either way.
Especially since all we have as evidence of Sullivan's ability to play is the coach's word.
That's not good enough for me.
He could very well come in and not have a damned clue what he's doing.

If we get rid of Birk, we should bring in a veteran.
We can't afford to screw around at such an important position.


I can site anything I want, what I'm most worried about is wether I'm being honest with what really happened, and guess what? It really happened, he botched two snaps in big games at the end of his contract year. Birk did a solid job this season, he has not been the best since his return from injury but I think this year was his best since then. The same can be said for Hutchison and McKinnie who were gol 'darnit good.

I think there is plenty of evidence that Sullivan can play based on his reseme he left on the field in college. Not only was Sullivan a dominant force at center he was one of best wrestlers in the country. The bottom line here is that Sullivan wins, not only will Childress tell you that but so will his ex coach Charlie Wise who gave high praise for Sullivan, one of major reasons we drafted him. Many people felt it was a disappointment that Sullivan even dropped to the 6th round in the draft, but thats the life of a Center.

I think Sullivan coming in and not having a clue is very unlikely, I believe he's a very intelligent guy thats going into his second season, he's been in meetings, he knows the offense, he's been in weight room, he knows the routine. Not to mention he already has a head start because Birk skipped those camps last offseason. In those camps the Coaches were very impressed with him, if you believe thats a lie thats your opinion.

Center is an important position, I think Sullivan is ready to take over. Yesterday I watched the Titans vs Ravens. The Titans were without there All-Pro center Kevin Mawae, his replacement had vertally no experience starting at the NFL level and played gol 'darnit good game against a very intense defense. I don't doubt the ability of a young guy to come in and do well, Matt Birk did it himself when Jeff Christy was let go to Free Agency.

I don't think we need a verteran Center, especailly considering everyone else on the line is a veteran. I don't see anyone on the FA market I like better than Sullivan but thats just me and my opinion.

P.S. If you have any doubt that Sullivan will be clueless I have a good feeling Birk would disagree. Birk has been quoted as complimenting the young guy as someone who is eager to learn, ask questions and has a bright future. There is no doubt in my mind Birk is the type of guy to be very helpfull.


You are making a lot of assumptions and it can prove dangerous for this team.
Assumption # 1) Center that excelled in College will automatically excel in the pros.
Assumption # 2) Assuming that a 2nd year playee can excel in a system that our all pro center cannot.
Assumption # 3) Assuming that everyone was wrong in letting this guy go so low in the daft. ( 5th or 7 round?)

The bottom line is, we have no idea what to expect from Birk's replacment. I won't listen to what players say about our youngsters development. Hell, liten to what everyone said about Tj and the progress he had made this offseason.

VikingsTw
01-11-2009, 07:11 PM
I knew the comparison about TJack was gonna come along at some point during this thread. First I must say that TJack was improved throughout training camp and through preseason up untill the time he was injured. After that things got rocky then he was benched. After he returned when Frerotte went down we seen a different TJack, most likely the guy that they were seeing in Training Camp. We struggled with the Eagles Defense and now TJack is back in the dog house, does this surprise me, absolutly not. Typical fan base.

I never said "just because" a Center exelled in college he will exell in the Pro's, I said he proved he can play by what he did in college. What he does from here on out has nothing to do with the past but I certainly wouldn't discount it altogether thats for d@mn sure.

I never said Birk cannott exell in this offense, infact I stated he had a solid season. My Opinion about Sullivan being able to exell is based off of his intelligence, ability to grasp a complex offense and the ability to make adjustments at the line while making all the calls. I think this is Sullivan's strong point, this don't mean he won't have bumps in the road but throughout his college carear he was known for tremendous Intelligence, Tenacity, Leadership, and Technique.

Sullivan was a 6th round pick, I felt he slipped as did some other so called experts, again this is only an opinion and so is everthing that you have stated along with your incorrect "assumptions" of what I said. I continuesly deal with this when replying to anything you Quote me on.

If Sullivan cannott handle the job or is injured we have other guys that can play center, including Anthony Herrera and Ryan Cook. Not to mention anyone we bring in during the Offseason. If Birk returns I hope its for no more than 2 years but IMO it would wise to get the ball rolling for the future as we have built a team for the future. I think this here, right now is a perfect opportunity to insert Sullivan in an already stout line with help around him.

singersp
01-11-2009, 07:13 PM
"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.


+1

We have no clue, other than a few pre-season appearances against 2nd stringers thru rookies, what this guy has to offer. He had some nice plays then, but that isn't enough of an indication of how well he would do during a regular season. Certainly there wasn't enough play time by him (to warrant not signing Birk or another proven player) that I would throw all my eggs in one basket & just go with him. Especially when we don't have another center on the roster or even on the practice squad.

Marrdro's "future center" was let go at the beginning of the year.

vikings_fan66
01-11-2009, 07:18 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.


+1

We have no clue, other than a few pre-season appearances against 2nd stringers thru rookies, what this guy has to offer. He had some nice plays then, but that isn't enough of an indication of how well he would do during a regular season. Certainly there wasn't enough play time by him (to warrant not signing Birk or another proven player) that I would throw all my eggs in one basket & just go with him. Especially when we don't have another center on the roster or even on the practice squad.

Marrdro's "future center" was let go at the beginning of the year.


Thats why we should move Cook back to center... his original position

VikingsTw
01-11-2009, 07:22 PM
I will be the first to say that Dan Mozes was about as disappointing as it gets, the difference between Dan and John is we drafted Sullivan, Mozes was free. So obviously we seen enough stock in him to make that decision.

The fans might have no idea about what Sullivan can do but I think we'll find out alot more when we either sign Matt Birk back or let him go. I think there is a really really good chance we let him go considering we usually always sign players to contract extentions during the season before they hit the expensive FA market. Especailly the players we really "Covet". AKA EJ Henderson and Anthony Hererra. From what I understand Birk has wanted that extention for sometime.

IMO Birk is going to be offered a contract based off his Pro Bowl name that we will not be willing to match.

IMO there is a good chance that we draft another Center given our current flexibility.

kevoncox
01-12-2009, 11:47 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


I will be the first to say that Dan Mozes was about as disappointing as it gets, the difference between Dan and John is we drafted Sullivan, Mozes was free. So obviously we seen enough stock in him to make that decision.

The fans might have no idea about what Sullivan can do but I think we'll find out alot more when we either sign Matt Birk back or let him go. I think there is a really really good chance we let him go considering we usually always sign players to contract extentions during the season before they hit the expensive FA market. Especailly the players we really "Covet". AKA EJ Henderson and Anthony Hererra. From what I understand Birk has wanted that extention for sometime.

IMO Birk is going to be offered a contract based off his Pro Bowl name that we will not be willing to match.

IMO there is a good chance that we draft another Center given our current flexibility.


This isn't the same Sullivan that lead the Oline on a stink ND offense is it? The same one that took 6 games( i forgot how many) to score? Nothing is a given with this guy. Why hitch our hopes on pontential. Haven't we had enough of potential in the last 3 years? I'm sick of potential. I want talent, ability, consistancy, able, and known. When discribing
someone, if you can't use any of these words, I don't want to hear about them. Potential, nets you nothing.

Marrdro
01-12-2009, 01:32 PM
"vikings_fan66" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.


+1

We have no clue, other than a few pre-season appearances against 2nd stringers thru rookies, what this guy has to offer. He had some nice plays then, but that isn't enough of an indication of how well he would do during a regular season. Certainly there wasn't enough play time by him (to warrant not signing Birk or another proven player) that I would throw all my eggs in one basket & just go with him. Especially when we don't have another center on the roster or even on the practice squad.

Marrdro's "future center" was let go at the beginning of the year.


Thats why we should move Cook back to center... his original position

Guess what my friends.......

At sometime every NFL player has to take that first snap (even a Center) at his position.
None of them come in ready to play at the next level.

The bigger question is, does he have the talent to play that position and do we have the coaching staff to get him ready.
I often wonder about the latter, especially when I wonder about our OL coach.

Marrdro
01-12-2009, 01:36 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.
I don't care HOW good the coaches say he is.
They said Tarvaris Jackson was good, too.

Forgive me if I fail to see how in the hell this makes any sense.


Thats understable, people fear the unknown but I really like Sullivan, a big fan. Birk just got done botching two snaps in criticle times at seasons end, our pass protection has been very inconsistent, its time for change.

IMO Tarvaris Jackson is good, inconsistent, sure, but still young and improving. I've seen TJack do some impressive things and some bonehead things but watching the playoffs its easy to understand that all QB's struggle with good defenses, including those bonehead throws. Eli has already thrown one INT to same guy TJack did and nearly through another one that was dropped. Yesterday Jake Delohme through something like 5 INT's. TJack's got plenty of work to do but if there is anything I know about TJack its his resilence and work ethic.

I'm much in opinion of Antonie Winfield when he said this thing is about experience and its tuff going against a defense like the Giants or the Eagles. Infact after that Giants INT he kept his composure, turned around and lead us right down the field for a score.

Back to me speculating on things and breaking some unwritten rule on PPO that we need to have proof, however, here it goes......

I really believe our biggest issue with respect to our Passing game was our C and QB's ability to recognize/read "Pre snap" what the defense was gonna do.

With that said, you remove Birk, who obviously was part of that problem (based on speculation of course) and insert Sullivan (or a guy drafted this year) and you still have a problem IMHO.

The could shift the line calls to Hutch but I don't like that idea.
I really think they need to look at other options at C other than just Sullivan, Cook or (instert Rookie name here) as options.

Marrdro
01-12-2009, 01:40 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


I can site anything I want, what I'm most worried about is wether I'm being honest with what really happened, and guess what? It really happened, he botched two snaps in big games at the end of his contract year. Birk did a solid job this season, he has not been the best since his return from injury but I think this year was his best since then. The same can be said for Hutchison and McKinnie who were gol 'darnit good.

I think there is plenty of evidence that Sullivan can play based on his reseme he left on the field in college. Not only was Sullivan a dominant force at center he was one of best wrestlers in the country. The bottom line here is that Sullivan wins, not only will Childress tell you that but so will his ex coach Charlie Wise who gave high praise for Sullivan, one of major reasons we drafted him. Many people felt it was a disappointment that Sullivan even dropped to the 6th round in the draft, but thats the life of a Center.

I think Sullivan coming in and not having a clue is very unlikely, I believe he's a very intelligent guy thats going into his second season, he's been in meetings, he knows the offense, he's been in weight room, he knows the routine. Not to mention he already has a head start because Birk skipped those camps last offseason. In those camps the Coaches were very impressed with him, if you believe thats a lie thats your opinion.

Center is an important position, I think Sullivan is ready to take over. Yesterday I watched the Titans vs Ravens. The Titans were without there All-Pro center Kevin Mawae, his replacement had vertally no experience starting at the NFL level and played gol 'darnit good game against a very intense defense. I don't doubt the ability of a young guy to come in and do well, Matt Birk did it himself when Jeff Christy was let go to Free Agency.

I don't think we need a verteran Center, especailly considering everyone else on the line is a veteran. I don't see anyone on the FA market I like better than Sullivan but thats just me and my opinion.

P.S. If you have any doubt that Sullivan will be clueless I have a good feeling Birk would disagree. Birk has been quoted as complimenting the young guy as someone who is eager to learn, ask questions and has a bright future. There is no doubt in my mind Birk is the type of guy to be very helpfull.

Damn that was a well articulated stance especially the Kevin Mawae example.....Now you got me rethinking the whole Vet aspect.....

marstc09
01-12-2009, 01:45 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.
I don't care HOW good the coaches say he is.
They said Tarvaris Jackson was good, too.

Forgive me if I fail to see how in the hell this makes any sense.


Thats understable, people fear the unknown but I really like Sullivan, a big fan. Birk just got done botching two snaps in criticle times at seasons end, our pass protection has been very inconsistent, its time for change.

IMO Tarvaris Jackson is good, inconsistent, sure, but still young and improving. I've seen TJack do some impressive things and some bonehead things but watching the playoffs its easy to understand that all QB's struggle with good defenses, including those bonehead throws. Eli has already thrown one INT to same guy TJack did and nearly through another one that was dropped. Yesterday Jake Delohme through something like 5 INT's. TJack's got plenty of work to do but if there is anything I know about TJack its his resilence and work ethic.

I'm much in opinion of Antonie Winfield when he said this thing is about experience and its tuff going against a defense like the Giants or the Eagles. Infact after that Giants INT he kept his composure, turned around and lead us right down the field for a score.

Back to me speculating on things and breaking some unwritten rule on PPO that we need to have proof, however, here it goes......

I really believe our biggest issue with respect to our Passing game was our C and QB's ability to recognize/read "Pre snap" what the defense was gonna do.

With that said, you remove Birk, who obviously was part of that problem (based on speculation of course) and insert Sullivan (or a guy drafted this year) and you still have a problem IMHO.

The could shift the line calls to Hutch but I don't like that idea.
I really think they need to look at other options at C other than just Sullivan, Cook or (instert Rookie name here) as options.


Well, Saturday is a FA.

Marrdro
01-12-2009, 02:04 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.
I don't care HOW good the coaches say he is.
They said Tarvaris Jackson was good, too.

Forgive me if I fail to see how in the hell this makes any sense.


Thats understable, people fear the unknown but I really like Sullivan, a big fan. Birk just got done botching two snaps in criticle times at seasons end, our pass protection has been very inconsistent, its time for change.

IMO Tarvaris Jackson is good, inconsistent, sure, but still young and improving. I've seen TJack do some impressive things and some bonehead things but watching the playoffs its easy to understand that all QB's struggle with good defenses, including those bonehead throws. Eli has already thrown one INT to same guy TJack did and nearly through another one that was dropped. Yesterday Jake Delohme through something like 5 INT's. TJack's got plenty of work to do but if there is anything I know about TJack its his resilence and work ethic.

I'm much in opinion of Antonie Winfield when he said this thing is about experience and its tuff going against a defense like the Giants or the Eagles. Infact after that Giants INT he kept his composure, turned around and lead us right down the field for a score.

Back to me speculating on things and breaking some unwritten rule on PPO that we need to have proof, however, here it goes......

I really believe our biggest issue with respect to our Passing game was our C and QB's ability to recognize/read "Pre snap" what the defense was gonna do.

With that said, you remove Birk, who obviously was part of that problem (based on speculation of course) and insert Sullivan (or a guy drafted this year) and you still have a problem IMHO.

The could shift the line calls to Hutch but I don't like that idea.
I really think they need to look at other options at C other than just Sullivan, Cook or (instert Rookie name here) as options.


Well, Saturday is a FA.

He is at that.
I have taken a look at him to.
If anyone in the league can read a defense and adjust the line call off of what he sees and the QB's audible it is that cat.

Can you imagine how long it took him and Peyton to get that act together.......?
:o

VikingsTw
01-12-2009, 02:05 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


This isn't the same Sullivan that lead the Oline on a stink ND offense is it? The same one that took 6 games( i forgot how many) to score? Nothing is a given with this guy. Why hitch our hopes on pontential. Haven't we had enough of potential in the last 3 years? I'm sick of potential. I want talent, ability, consistancy, able, and known. When discribing
someone, if you can't use any of these words, I don't want to hear about them. Potential, nets you nothing.


Oh... your talking about the Sullivan from 2007 with two rookie gaurds lined up next to him and inefficent QB because Brady Quinn was drafted.

Lets go back in history when he actually had a team, before the rookie gaurds came in, when Darius Walker was RB and Brady Quinn was QB, because after all, this is a team game, right?

In 2005, his first year starting for the Fighting Irish offense they averaged a whopping 477.3 yards per game and alloud only a total of 21 sacks the entire season.

In 2006 they generated over 30 points in eight of the games while surpassing 400 yards of offense in six of there games. Darius Walker again like 2005 eclipsed the 1,000 yard mark to become only the 4th back in their history to do that.

In 2007 Sullivan lost Darius Walker, Brad Quinn and his two partener Gaurds. That year the oline allowed 58 sacks, 7 more than the total of the previous two seasons. There offense went from generating 5,700 yards his sophmore year too 2,900 during his senior season. A big reason... he lost half his team, he was compensating for rookies all over the field but you never heard him cry about it.

Potential is Talent, Ability, Able and Known. As far as consitency goes thats what we are all searching for, I talked all along about the "potential" that Shancoe had, his problem was being consistent with his talent and ability because I already knew he had it. If we don't have any potential we don't have any talent.

In closing this I just want to say that this is a good time for Sullivan to be our guy, to be lined up next to Herrera and Hutchison, to be in a offense with plenty of potential. I won't mind some fresh blood, a new attitude, a guy eager to go to all camps and learn. If Sullivan isn't the answer we'll have too look elsewhere because Birk isn't going to last forever, infact I don't think he's going to last through FA on our team. All I know is our pass protection is very inconsistent and I'm not blaming Bryant McKinnie for it, not this year anyway. I want change and like you consistency, I want someone new calling the plays at the line.

Purple Floyd
01-12-2009, 02:06 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


You CAN'T cite that botched snap as a reason.
Seriously?
Everyone makes mistakes.
It's not like he's been doing this all year long.

I don't like getting rid of commodities and bringing in guys who could go either way.
Especially since all we have as evidence of Sullivan's ability to play is the coach's word.
That's not good enough for me.
He could very well come in and not have a damned clue what he's doing.

If we get rid of Birk, we should bring in a veteran.
We can't afford to screw around at such an important position.


I can site anything I want, what I'm most worried about is wether I'm being honest with what really happened, and guess what? It really happened, he botched two snaps in big games at the end of his contract year. Birk did a solid job this season, he has not been the best since his return from injury but I think this year was his best since then. The same can be said for Hutchison and McKinnie who were gol 'darnit good.

I think there is plenty of evidence that Sullivan can play based on his reseme he left on the field in college. Not only was Sullivan a dominant force at center he was one of best wrestlers in the country. The bottom line here is that Sullivan wins, not only will Childress tell you that but so will his ex coach Charlie Wise who gave high praise for Sullivan, one of major reasons we drafted him. Many people felt it was a disappointment that Sullivan even dropped to the 6th round in the draft, but thats the life of a Center.

I think Sullivan coming in and not having a clue is very unlikely, I believe he's a very intelligent guy thats going into his second season, he's been in meetings, he knows the offense, he's been in weight room, he knows the routine. Not to mention he already has a head start because Birk skipped those camps last offseason. In those camps the Coaches were very impressed with him, if you believe thats a lie thats your opinion.

Center is an important position, I think Sullivan is ready to take over. Yesterday I watched the Titans vs Ravens. The Titans were without there All-Pro center Kevin Mawae, his replacement had vertally no experience starting at the NFL level and played gol 'darnit good game against a very intense defense. I don't doubt the ability of a young guy to come in and do well, Matt Birk did it himself when Jeff Christy was let go to Free Agency.

I don't think we need a verteran Center, especailly considering everyone else on the line is a veteran. I don't see anyone on the FA market I like better than Sullivan but thats just me and my opinion.

P.S. If you have any doubt that Sullivan will be clueless I have a good feeling Birk would disagree. Birk has been quoted as complimenting the young guy as someone who is eager to learn, ask questions and has a bright future. There is no doubt in my mind Birk is the type of guy to be very helpfull.


You are making a lot of assumptions and it can prove dangerous for this team.
Assumption # 1) Center that excelled in College will automatically excel in the pros.
Assumption # 2) Assuming that a 2nd year playee can excel in a system that our all pro center cannot.
Assumption # 3) Assuming that everyone was wrong in letting this guy go so low in the daft. ( 5th or 7 round?)

The bottom line is, we have no idea what to expect from Birk's replacment. I won't listen to what players say about our youngsters development. Hell, liten to what everyone said about Tj and the progress he had made this offseason.


+1

Booty also excelled in College, yet how many are saying he can step right in and be successful in the NFL?

I also agree with you on the second part. The coaches have not gotten an OL with 3 pro bowl players on it to play at a high level even with 4 of 5 being together for 3 years. Now we are supposed to believe a guy who has never taken an NFL snap is going to magically come in and improve the line play when none of the other guys have played along side of him?
That is very risky.

That being said I do hope Sullivan does pan out. I do agree that him being a successful wrestler should help him tremendously with getting leverage in the trenches and i do agree that Birk is not going to get any better. But to not resign a guy who has been the glue on our OL for over a decade without knowing how the replacement will do in a game and not trusting the guy who is coaching them I would not be comfortable not keeping birk around. let the young guy come in and take the job away. Don't just give it to him on a hope and a prayer.

jmcdon00
01-12-2009, 02:22 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.
I don't care HOW good the coaches say he is.
They said Tarvaris Jackson was good, too.

Forgive me if I fail to see how in the hell this makes any sense.


Thats understable, people fear the unknown but I really like Sullivan, a big fan. Birk just got done botching two snaps in criticle times at seasons end, our pass protection has been very inconsistent, its time for change.

IMO Tarvaris Jackson is good, inconsistent, sure, but still young and improving. I've seen TJack do some impressive things and some bonehead things but watching the playoffs its easy to understand that all QB's struggle with good defenses, including those bonehead throws. Eli has already thrown one INT to same guy TJack did and nearly through another one that was dropped. Yesterday Jake Delohme through something like 5 INT's. TJack's got plenty of work to do but if there is anything I know about TJack its his resilence and work ethic.

I'm much in opinion of Antonie Winfield when he said this thing is about experience and its tuff going against a defense like the Giants or the Eagles. Infact after that Giants INT he kept his composure, turned around and lead us right down the field for a score.

Back to me speculating on things and breaking some unwritten rule on PPO that we need to have proof, however, here it goes......

I really believe our biggest issue with respect to our Passing game was our C and QB's ability to recognize/read "Pre snap" what the defense was gonna do.

With that said, you remove Birk, who obviously was part of that problem (based on speculation of course) and insert Sullivan (or a guy drafted this year) and you still have a problem IMHO.

The could shift the line calls to Hutch but I don't like that idea.
I really think they need to look at other options at C other than just Sullivan, Cook or (instert Rookie name here) as options.

Excellent post, and I'll readily admit I'm not qualified to comment on pre-snap reads and don't really know what that means. But it would seem to me that a few years ago we had one of the top passing attacks in the NFL with Birk at the Center(and a QB who many have claimed couldn't read a defense). Did Birk forget how to pass protect, or was our offense so stacked that we overcame that.

VikingsTw
01-12-2009, 02:26 PM
QB and Center are two different worlds but very important ones I agree. Booty from alot of scouts and experts was considered the QB most ready to come in and play, but Flaco and Ryan might have something to say about that. I think be a very good QB, especailly in our system, I would like to give him one more year in the weight room and playbook but we might see him next season. He's proven he can exell in a West Coast Offense but can he exell as a not very moble QB behind an inconsistent Oline. If our Oline was consistent I think Booty could tear it up, or Jackson for that matter, he's consistently throwing bad passess under deress, alot of QB's do this, young or experienced.

As for Jeff Saturday he's 33 years old, not saying he don't have a couple left but this is the same boat with Birk.

I can certainly agree that its risky to move on from a guy that has been your anchor for so long, change can be difficult for some and often feared. I will say this though, its not like its never happened and been a sucessful transition. Like I said earlier Birk did it himself but he did it under Mike Tice. Do we have an issue with our Offensive Line Coach? I really can't say, because right when you think you know you really don't and that goes for myself also.

I think the bottom line is we are all going to find out soon, I have no fear of moving in a new direction with Tyrell Johnson and John Sullivan/Anyone we decide to go with.

Marrdro
01-12-2009, 02:30 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.
I don't care HOW good the coaches say he is.
They said Tarvaris Jackson was good, too.

Forgive me if I fail to see how in the hell this makes any sense.


Thats understable, people fear the unknown but I really like Sullivan, a big fan. Birk just got done botching two snaps in criticle times at seasons end, our pass protection has been very inconsistent, its time for change.

IMO Tarvaris Jackson is good, inconsistent, sure, but still young and improving. I've seen TJack do some impressive things and some bonehead things but watching the playoffs its easy to understand that all QB's struggle with good defenses, including those bonehead throws. Eli has already thrown one INT to same guy TJack did and nearly through another one that was dropped. Yesterday Jake Delohme through something like 5 INT's. TJack's got plenty of work to do but if there is anything I know about TJack its his resilence and work ethic.

I'm much in opinion of Antonie Winfield when he said this thing is about experience and its tuff going against a defense like the Giants or the Eagles. Infact after that Giants INT he kept his composure, turned around and lead us right down the field for a score.

Back to me speculating on things and breaking some unwritten rule on PPO that we need to have proof, however, here it goes......

I really believe our biggest issue with respect to our Passing game was our C and QB's ability to recognize/read "Pre snap" what the defense was gonna do.

With that said, you remove Birk, who obviously was part of that problem (based on speculation of course) and insert Sullivan (or a guy drafted this year) and you still have a problem IMHO.

The could shift the line calls to Hutch but I don't like that idea.
I really think they need to look at other options at C other than just Sullivan, Cook or (instert Rookie name here) as options.

Excellent post, and I'll readily admit I'm not qualified to comment on pre-snap reads and don't really know what that means. But it would seem to me that a few years ago we had one of the top passing attacks in the NFL with Birk at the Center(and a QB who many have claimed couldn't read a defense). Did Birk forget how to pass protect, or was our offense so stacked that we overcame that.

From what I can gather from my limited vantage point (again purely speculation on my part), it appears that we struggle when we shift from a run play (yes that means audible for those that think we don't do them) to a pass play and the different assignments that come from that with respect to a ZB scheme and a traditional man-to-man (one on one) blocking scheme.

Hard to explain via a keyboard, however, I base that speculation on the fact that we continue to see guys trying to ZB in the passing situations ala Birk doubling up with a G instead of just taking on the guy in his lane.
It could also be that they try to use the ZB scheme in pass protection as well, which, if that was the case, our coaching staff should be shot.

Again, hard to see from the angle that they give us on TV but some of the sports shows (AFC NFC Playbook/NFL Matchup) have shown what happens a couple of times this year with teams other than the Vikes that use our blocking scheme.

As to Matt.
I think he really struggles with the scheme and then compound that with the possibility that he has slowed a bit in his age and you can see how he struggles at times.

Marrdro
01-12-2009, 02:32 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


QB and Center are two different worlds but very important ones I agree. Booty from alot of scouts and experts was considered the QB most ready to come in and play, but Flaco and Ryan might have something to say about that. I think be a very good QB, especailly in our system, I would like to give him one more year in the weight room and playbook but we might see him next season. He's proven he can exell in a West Coast Offense but can he exell as a not very moble QB behind an inconsistent Oline. If our Oline was consistent I think Booty could tear it up, or Jackson for that matter, he's consistently throwing bad passess under deress, alot of QB's do this, young or experienced.

As for Jeff Saturday he's 33 years old, not saying he don't have a couple left but this is the same boat with Birk.

I can certainly agree that its risky to move on from a guy that has been your anchor for so long, change can be difficult for some and often feared. I will say this though, its not like its never happened and been a sucessful transition. Like I said earlier Birk did it himself but he did it under Mike Tice. Do we have an issue with our Offensive Line Coach? I really can't say, because right when you think you know you really don't and that goes for myself also.

I think the bottom line is we are all going to find out soon, I have no fear of moving in a new direction with Tyrell Johnson and John Sullivan/Anyone we decide to go with.

Excellent post my friend.

I still like JDB's upside.
I think the kid has a bright future.
To bad some have already thrown him under the bus based on a few pre-season outings....

bleedpurple
01-12-2009, 02:38 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


I'm not ready to hitch the future of the offensive line on a guy that hasn't played a single snap at center in his NFL career.
I don't care HOW good the coaches say he is.
They said Tarvaris Jackson was good, too.

Forgive me if I fail to see how in the hell this makes any sense.


Thats understable, people fear the unknown but I really like Sullivan, a big fan. Birk just got done botching two snaps in criticle times at seasons end, our pass protection has been very inconsistent, its time for change.

IMO Tarvaris Jackson is good, inconsistent, sure, but still young and improving. I've seen TJack do some impressive things and some bonehead things but watching the playoffs its easy to understand that all QB's struggle with good defenses, including those bonehead throws. Eli has already thrown one INT to same guy TJack did and nearly through another one that was dropped. Yesterday Jake Delohme through something like 5 INT's. TJack's got plenty of work to do but if there is anything I know about TJack its his resilence and work ethic.

I'm much in opinion of Antonie Winfield when he said this thing is about experience and its tuff going against a defense like the Giants or the Eagles. Infact after that Giants INT he kept his composure, turned around and lead us right down the field for a score.

Back to me speculating on things and breaking some unwritten rule on PPO that we need to have proof, however, here it goes......

I really believe our biggest issue with respect to our Passing game was our C and QB's ability to recognize/read "Pre snap" what the defense was gonna do.

With that said, you remove Birk, who obviously was part of that problem (based on speculation of course) and insert Sullivan (or a guy drafted this year) and you still have a problem IMHO.

The could shift the line calls to Hutch but I don't like that idea.
I really think they need to look at other options at C other than just Sullivan, Cook or (instert Rookie name here) as options.

Excellent post, and I'll readily admit I'm not qualified to comment on pre-snap reads and don't really know what that means. But it would seem to me that a few years ago we had one of the top passing attacks in the NFL with Birk at the Center(and a QB who many have claimed couldn't read a defense). Did Birk forget how to pass protect, or was our offense so stacked that we overcame that.

From what I can gather from my limited vantage point (again purely speculation on my part), it appears that we struggle when we shift from a run play (yes that means audible for those that think we don't do them) to a pass play and the different assignments that come from that with respect to a ZB scheme and a traditional man-to-man (one on one) blocking scheme.

Hard to explain via a keyboard, however, I base that speculation on the fact that we continue to see guys trying to ZB in the passing situations ala Birk doubling up with a G instead of just taking on the guy in his lane.
It could also be that they try to use the ZB scheme in pass protection as well, which, if that was the case, our coaching staff should be shot.

Again, hard to see from the angle that they give us on TV but some of the sports shows (AFC NFC Playbook/NFL Matchup) have shown what happens a couple of times this year with teams other than the Vikes that use our blocking scheme.

As to Matt.
I think he really struggles with the scheme and then compound that with the possibility that he has slowed a bit in his age and you can see how he struggles at times.


yeah, i pointed that out last week as pure speculation but i think it has alot of teeth to it!!... but if they are doing the ZB scheme in passing plays... they all need to be fired... what a effin ridiculous thing to do... and by not changing it and staying the course, is just as assinine...

I'm not particularly sure i agree that the switch stems from audibles, but in general i just think they struggle from going from run blocking to pass blocking to run blocking...

you know one thing though, i hear all the time, that we have one of the best offensive lines in the league, esp. in football magazines that come out right before the season.. it pisses me off.. it's almost as if they take the same crap and publish it year after year... it's funny how some of these guys don't have the slightest clue!!!

Marrdro
01-12-2009, 02:41 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


you know one thing though, i hear all the time, that we have one of the best offensive lines in the league, esp. in football magazines that come out right before the season.. it pisses me off.. it's almost as if they take the same crap and publish it year after year... it's funny how some of these guys don't have the slightest clue!!!

We have a few on here that try to support that theory, however, if pressed they will always revert back to how well the OL does in supporting the Running Game.

Taken in that context, they are correct, we have one of the best OL's in the league which I attribute to the ZB scheme instituted by this staff when they got Hutch and CT.
It has just gotten better with the addition of AD and Herrera.

marstc09
01-12-2009, 02:44 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


QB and Center are two different worlds but very important ones I agree. Booty from alot of scouts and experts was considered the QB most ready to come in and play, but Flaco and Ryan might have something to say about that. I think be a very good QB, especailly in our system, I would like to give him one more year in the weight room and playbook but we might see him next season. He's proven he can exell in a West Coast Offense but can he exell as a not very moble QB behind an inconsistent Oline. If our Oline was consistent I think Booty could tear it up, or Jackson for that matter, he's consistently throwing bad passess under deress, alot of QB's do this, young or experienced.

As for Jeff Saturday he's 33 years old, not saying he don't have a couple left but this is the same boat with Birk.

I can certainly agree that its risky to move on from a guy that has been your anchor for so long, change can be difficult for some and often feared. I will say this though, its not like its never happened and been a sucessful transition. Like I said earlier Birk did it himself but he did it under Mike Tice. Do we have an issue with our Offensive Line Coach? I really can't say, because right when you think you know you really don't and that goes for myself also.

I think the bottom line is we are all going to find out soon, I have no fear of moving in a new direction with Tyrell Johnson and John Sullivan/Anyone we decide to go with.

Excellent post my friend.

I still like JDB's upside.
I think the kid has a bright future.
To bad some have already thrown him under the bus based on a few pre-season outings....


I have not thrown him under the bus but people in USC nation believe Mark Sanchez should have been the starter.

Marrdro
01-12-2009, 02:46 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


QB and Center are two different worlds but very important ones I agree. Booty from alot of scouts and experts was considered the QB most ready to come in and play, but Flaco and Ryan might have something to say about that. I think be a very good QB, especailly in our system, I would like to give him one more year in the weight room and playbook but we might see him next season. He's proven he can exell in a West Coast Offense but can he exell as a not very moble QB behind an inconsistent Oline. If our Oline was consistent I think Booty could tear it up, or Jackson for that matter, he's consistently throwing bad passess under deress, alot of QB's do this, young or experienced.

As for Jeff Saturday he's 33 years old, not saying he don't have a couple left but this is the same boat with Birk.

I can certainly agree that its risky to move on from a guy that has been your anchor for so long, change can be difficult for some and often feared. I will say this though, its not like its never happened and been a sucessful transition. Like I said earlier Birk did it himself but he did it under Mike Tice. Do we have an issue with our Offensive Line Coach? I really can't say, because right when you think you know you really don't and that goes for myself also.

I think the bottom line is we are all going to find out soon, I have no fear of moving in a new direction with Tyrell Johnson and John Sullivan/Anyone we decide to go with.

Excellent post My Sexy Little Pixie.

I still like JDB's upside.
I think the kid has a bright future.
To bad some have already thrown him under the bus based on a few pre-season outings....


I have not thrown him under the bus but people in USC nation believe Mark Sanchez should have been the starter.

I've seen some highligts on Sanchez on the NFLN college shows.
Seems he is a very interesting prospect as well.

VikingsTw
01-12-2009, 02:57 PM
They didn't loose very many games with Booty and I believe he was atleast the MVP of one of the Rose Bowls if not both which he had really good games. Booty put up solid numbers but he wasn't the flashy QB. Infact when he was injured I thought there QB play declined, some felt had he not gone injured they might have went undefeated.

bleedpurple
01-12-2009, 02:58 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


QB and Center are two different worlds but very important ones I agree. Booty from alot of scouts and experts was considered the QB most ready to come in and play, but Flaco and Ryan might have something to say about that. I think be a very good QB, especailly in our system, I would like to give him one more year in the weight room and playbook but we might see him next season. He's proven he can exell in a West Coast Offense but can he exell as a not very moble QB behind an inconsistent Oline. If our Oline was consistent I think Booty could tear it up, or Jackson for that matter, he's consistently throwing bad passess under deress, alot of QB's do this, young or experienced.

As for Jeff Saturday he's 33 years old, not saying he don't have a couple left but this is the same boat with Birk.

I can certainly agree that its risky to move on from a guy that has been your anchor for so long, change can be difficult for some and often feared. I will say this though, its not like its never happened and been a sucessful transition. Like I said earlier Birk did it himself but he did it under Mike Tice. Do we have an issue with our Offensive Line Coach? I really can't say, because right when you think you know you really don't and that goes for myself also.

I think the bottom line is we are all going to find out soon, I have no fear of moving in a new direction with Tyrell Johnson and John Sullivan/Anyone we decide to go with.

Excellent post My Sexy Little Pixie.

I still like JDB's upside.
I think the kid has a bright future.
To bad some have already thrown him under the bus based on a few pre-season outings....


I have not thrown him under the bus but people in USC nation believe Mark Sanchez should have been the starter.

I've seen some highligts on Sanchez on the NFLN college shows.
Seems he is a very interesting prospect as well.


I like him alot better than booty!!!... he threw alot of picks in pressure situations... i'm not a believer!

ejmat
01-12-2009, 08:04 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:
[quote]

Yes I do believe there isn't much of a differnce between their 5th WR and Toomer at this point in his career.

We are talking talent not intelligence.
Toomer is aging.
I am not going to agree all of our coaching staff is below average.
I do believe some are.
I never stated (please find where I do) that our coaching staff is above average.
The only hting I've done is stated they are not as bad as some of you make them out to be and we have only spoken about Childress.
I never even stated he was better than Coughlin.



I watch Gmen games, and there is a big difference between Toomer and Manningham. Route running, consistency and Qb targets are 3 that jump out my head. Manningham will be good and he has a big name but at this point "Well Dressed" Toomer is in another class compared to him. Perharps out points have been diluted by the 14 pages of arguing. All I have been trying to say is that while Childress has improved, it
is not enough or it's happening too slow.


[quote author=ejmat link=topic=50054.msg895049#msg895049 date=1231599326]

I do agree Toomer is better but in another league is not true.
Toomer is a wiley ol vet and is a very sound player.
Manningham at this point in his career has excellent talent but hasn't been given the chance to show it yet.
You have to ask yourself, can Manningham run routes?
Yes he can.
Can he catch the ball?
Yes he can.
QB targets I would say Manningham has an advantage over Toomer.
So the comparison of the 2nd WR to the 5th are not that much of a difference.
They are both NFL players so I would say they are in the same league as each other.

The 14 pages of debating back and forth has grown many tangents.
However one of your reasons of knocking Childress was based on "barely beating the Giants 2nd stringers".
That is what has been going on for the past several pages.
The bottom line it works both ways.
We had some of our 2nd stringers in too.
We beat them with their starters in and we won the game.
That is the bottom line.
Now the same 1st string Giants lost to the 1st string Eagles.
Does that mean they are a bad team?
No!
Does that mean the Vikes are bad?
No.
It means the Eagles went into the playoffs a hot team and they have kept it going.
They both have room to grow and I am excited about next season for the Vikings.
That is how I want to feel during the offseason.

kevoncox
01-12-2009, 10:12 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:
[quote]
"ejmat" wrote:
[quote]

Yes I do believe there isn't much of a differnce between their 5th WR and Toomer at this point in his career.

We are talking talent not intelligence.
Toomer is aging.
I am not going to agree all of our coaching staff is below average.
I do believe some are.
I never stated (please find where I do) that our coaching staff is above average.
The only hting I've done is stated they are not as bad as some of you make them out to be and we have only spoken about Childress.
I never even stated he was better than Coughlin.



I watch Gmen games, and there is a big difference between Toomer and Manningham. Route running, consistency and Qb targets are 3 that jump out my head. Manningham will be good and he has a big name but at this point "Well Dressed" Toomer is in another class compared to him. Perharps out points have been diluted by the 14 pages of arguing. All I have been trying to say is that while Childress has improved, it
is not enough or it's happening too slow.


"ejmat" wrote:



I do agree Toomer is better but in another league is not true.
Toomer is a wiley ol vet and is a very sound player.
Manningham at this point in his career has excellent talent but hasn't been given the chance to show it yet.
You have to ask yourself, can Manningham run routes?
Yes he can.
Can he catch the ball?
Yes he can.
QB targets I would say Manningham has an advantage over Toomer.
So the comparison of the 2nd WR to the 5th are not that much of a difference.
They are both NFL players so I would say they are in the same league as each other.

The 14 pages of debating back and forth has grown many tangents.
However one of your reasons of knocking Childress was based on "barely beating the Giants 2nd stringers".
That is what has been going on for the past several pages.
The bottom line it works both ways.
We had some of our 2nd stringers in too.
We beat them with their starters in and we won the game.
That is the bottom line.
Now the same 1st string Giants lost to the 1st string Eagles.
Does that mean they are a bad team?
No!
Does that mean the Vikes are bad?
No.
It means the Eagles went into the playoffs a hot team and they have kept it going.
They both have room to grow and I am excited about next season for the Vikings.
That is how I want to feel during the offseason.

We'll agree to disagree.

marstc09
01-12-2009, 10:23 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


QB and Center are two different worlds but very important ones I agree. Booty from alot of scouts and experts was considered the QB most ready to come in and play, but Flaco and Ryan might have something to say about that. I think be a very good QB, especailly in our system, I would like to give him one more year in the weight room and playbook but we might see him next season. He's proven he can exell in a West Coast Offense but can he exell as a not very moble QB behind an inconsistent Oline. If our Oline was consistent I think Booty could tear it up, or Jackson for that matter, he's consistently throwing bad passess under deress, alot of QB's do this, young or experienced.

As for Jeff Saturday he's 33 years old, not saying he don't have a couple left but this is the same boat with Birk.

I can certainly agree that its risky to move on from a guy that has been your anchor for so long, change can be difficult for some and often feared. I will say this though, its not like its never happened and been a sucessful transition. Like I said earlier Birk did it himself but he did it under Mike Tice. Do we have an issue with our Offensive Line Coach? I really can't say, because right when you think you know you really don't and that goes for myself also.

I think the bottom line is we are all going to find out soon, I have no fear of moving in a new direction with Tyrell Johnson and John Sullivan/Anyone we decide to go with.

Excellent post My Sexy Little Pixie.

I still like JDB's upside.
I think the kid has a bright future.
To bad some have already thrown him under the bus based on a few pre-season outings....


I have not thrown him under the bus but people in USC nation believe Mark Sanchez should have been the starter.

I've seen some highligts on Sanchez on the NFLN college shows.
Seems he is a very interesting prospect as well.


Like McCoy and Tebow, Sanchez most likely is not entering the draft.

marstc09
01-12-2009, 10:35 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


They didn't loose very many games with Booty and I believe he was atleast the MVP of one of the Rose Bowls if not both which he had really good games. Booty put up solid numbers but he wasn't the flashy QB. Infact when he was injured I thought there QB play declined, some felt had he not gone injured they might have went undefeated.


Sanchez won the 2009 Rose Bowl Offensive MVP of the game. He took the team to a 12-1 record. The unfortunate lose to Oregon State kept them from what I think would have been a better Championship game against Florida. 34/10 TD to INT ratio, a 164.6 rating, and 65.8 completion %. I hope he stays one more year. I want to see what he can do. All I know is the QB class will be decent next year.

VikingsTw
01-12-2009, 10:39 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


They didn't loose very many games with Booty and I believe he was atleast the MVP of one of the Rose Bowls if not both which he had really good games. Booty put up solid numbers but he wasn't the flashy QB. Infact when he was injured I thought there QB play declined, some felt had he not gone injured they might have went undefeated.


Sanchez won the 2009 Rose Bowl Offensive MVP of the game. He took the team to a 12-1 record. The unfortunate lose to Oregon State kept them from what I think would have been a better Championship game against Florida. 34/10 TD to INT ratio, a 164.6 rating, and 65.8 completion %. I hope he stays one more year. I want to see what he can do. All I know is the QB class will be decent next year.


Yeah no doubt, I seen Sanchez play a couple times he looked very solid. Those numbers are definitly better than Booty's.

Purple Floyd
01-13-2009, 12:10 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


They didn't loose very many games with Booty and I believe he was atleast the MVP of one of the Rose Bowls if not both which he had really good games. Booty put up solid numbers but he wasn't the flashy QB. Infact when he was injured I thought there QB play declined, some felt had he not gone injured they might have went undefeated.


Sanchez won the 2009 Rose Bowl Offensive MVP of the game. He took the team to a 12-1 record. The unfortunate lose to Oregon State kept them from what I think would have been a better Championship game against Florida. 34/10 TD to INT ratio, a 164.6 rating, and 65.8 completion %. I hope he stays one more year. I want to see what he can do. All I know is the QB class will be decent next year.


Yeah no doubt, I seen Sanchez play a couple times he looked very solid. Those numbers are definitly better than Booty's.


Sanchez is going to replace Birk ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

VikingsTw
01-13-2009, 12:43 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


They didn't loose very many games with Booty and I believe he was atleast the MVP of one of the Rose Bowls if not both which he had really good games. Booty put up solid numbers but he wasn't the flashy QB. Infact when he was injured I thought there QB play declined, some felt had he not gone injured they might have went undefeated.


Sanchez won the 2009 Rose Bowl Offensive MVP of the game. He took the team to a 12-1 record. The unfortunate lose to Oregon State kept them from what I think would have been a better Championship game against Florida. 34/10 TD to INT ratio, a 164.6 rating, and 65.8 completion %. I hope he stays one more year. I want to see what he can do. All I know is the QB class will be decent next year.


Yeah no doubt, I seen Sanchez play a couple times he looked very solid. Those numbers are definitly better than Booty's.


Sanchez is going to replace Birk ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


I didn't see anyone say that... I take it this is another one of your brilant "sarcasm posts" your so good at creating.

By the way my opinion is Sullivan is the man to do that Job, you should know that by know if you read the last couple pages. Who's to say I'm not right though, cause I really don't know, I just have an idea just like the Birk lovers have the idea its a smart idea to bring him back.

V4L
01-13-2009, 01:59 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


They didn't loose very many games with Booty and I believe he was atleast the MVP of one of the Rose Bowls if not both which he had really good games. Booty put up solid numbers but he wasn't the flashy QB. Infact when he was injured I thought there QB play declined, some felt had he not gone injured they might have went undefeated.


Sanchez won the 2009 Rose Bowl Offensive MVP of the game. He took the team to a 12-1 record. The unfortunate lose to Oregon State kept them from what I think would have been a better Championship game against Florida. 34/10 TD to INT ratio, a 164.6 rating, and 65.8 completion %. I hope he stays one more year. I want to see what he can do. All I know is the QB class will be decent next year.


Yeah no doubt, I seen Sanchez play a couple times he looked very solid. Those numbers are definitly better than Booty's.


Sanchez is going to replace Birk ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


I didn't see anyone say that... I take it this is another one of your brilant "sarcasm posts" your so good at creating.

By the way my opinion is Sullivan is the man to do that Job, you should know that by know if you read the last couple pages. Who's to say I'm not right though, cause I really don't know, I just have an idea just like the Birk lovers have the idea its a smart idea to bring him back.




He's just like most and hates derailed threads

midgensa
01-13-2009, 02:15 AM
"V4L" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:




They didn't loose very many games with Booty and I believe he was atleast the MVP of one of the Rose Bowls if not both which he had really good games. Booty put up solid numbers but he wasn't the flashy QB. Infact when he was injured I thought there QB play declined, some felt had he not gone injured they might have went undefeated.


Sanchez won the 2009 Rose Bowl Offensive MVP of the game. He took the team to a 12-1 record. The unfortunate lose to Oregon State kept them from what I think would have been a better Championship game against Florida. 34/10 TD to INT ratio, a 164.6 rating, and 65.8 completion %. I hope he stays one more year. I want to see what he can do. All I know is the QB class will be decent next year.


Yeah no doubt, I seen Sanchez play a couple times he looked very solid. Those numbers are definitly better than Booty's.


Sanchez is going to replace Birk ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


I didn't see anyone say that... I take it this is another one of your brilant "sarcasm posts" your so good at creating.

By the way my opinion is Sullivan is the man to do that Job, you should know that by know if you read the last couple pages. Who's to say I'm not right though, cause I really don't know, I just have an idea just like the Birk lovers have the idea its a smart idea to bring him back.




He's just like most and hates derailed threads




Yeah ... no shit. I clicked here to read what thoughts were on Birk and see if I could be swayed one way or another only to hear JDB and Mark Sanchez's life stories. Ugh.

grpape
01-13-2009, 02:22 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:








Not sure if anyone has brought this up lately...but, didn't we go through a similar situation about 10 years ago?
I seem to recall a certain probowl center (Christy) who got replaced by a certain 6th round draft pick (Birk.)

We were all pretty nervous about the switch at the time, but, obviously Birk has worked.
Is that right, or is my memory fading faster than I thought?
....

Your memory is fading, mine is too so I can't verify the detail.
I do remember being a bit nervous when that transpired though.
I hope Sullivan is up to the task so other needs can be addressed.
I also wonder, like has been mentioned, if Cook would better serve the team as center.
Maybe it will be a moot point if Birk sticks around and those two shadow him after a RT is grabbed early in the draft or in FA.

You are correct My Sexy Little Pixie.
Of course I wasn't a member of any internet forum then, however, I do remember the upheaval from that move.
Alot of fans were pissed.......

By the by, I've pointed it out a couple times in this thread (I think) over the last couple of days.


What you both seem to forget is that it wasn't this regime that made that move. It was another, that had proven it had the ability to draft and nurture offensive talent. In the 3 years that we have been drafting name 1 offensive play besides AD, who was a natural stud prior to being drafted by us, that we have drafted and can be labeled a success?

What the hell does the regime have to do with it?
Of course it wasn't the same regime.
It was like forever ago.

As to your question about naming studs, isn't it a bit early to be sending those guys to the pro-bowl? Giveem a chance.
I am sure each and everyone of them will pan out to be HOF'rs.
(Sarcasism alert)

Seriously though.
What in the hell do you think they can do to prove to you that they haven't done everything that has been asked of them?
Show me another team (other than the Giants) that has had as many kids out of thier last 3 draft classes either start, play significant time starting for an injured starter or play a siginificant role as a sub in the normal rotation of players.

Oh wait, I suppose you are still looking for all of them to be instant HOF'rs...... ::)


Packers jump out of my head.
I'm sure I can name a lot more if given the time. We can't use that excuse anymore Marr.
My point about the Regime change is that just because it worked for Green( i think) doesn't mean that Childress and Co. have the same eye for spotting a diamond in the rough.


Really?
Who knew how C Taylor would be?
Who knew how Shiancoe would be?
Who knew how good Griffin could be?
Who knew how Greenway would be?
Who knew how Robison would be?


It's really comical that some are so one sided they can never see the other side of the coin.
I take in the good with the bad and I can see this team is headed in the right direction.
Things just don't happen over night and just 3 seasons ago we were in a rebuilding phase.


Greenway was a 1st round pick and was expected to be the 2nd or 3rd LB off the board in a bad draft class.
Griffen = See Greenway.

The pick up of Ct wasn't our first choice so please don't come in here like Chilly saw the future and thought this guy was the 2nd coming of Christ and CT was similar in B-More, for all those that got to see him.

Shank had a terrific season after starting off rocky.

Funny, ATL was rebuilding this year as was Miami. In the NFl rebuilding is not like it is in college. Teams that use rebuilding as a crutch will always be 'rebuilding".
This was our year to take a title. Most of the elite teams and coaches were knocked out of the playoffs due to bad years and we could not get it done.

We have the best running tandem in the league. One of the best Olines in the league, The best D line in the league, a Solid LB core, A solid DB core, and we still could not get it done with Chilly. He is not a coach that can take us to the Superbowl.


Stop puffing our your chest. We don't have the best in any of those categories. We don't stack up to any of the teams left in the playoffs. That's just the nature of the beast. If you really thought we were going to the big dance this season, well, I really don't know what to say to you. This season will give the team some experience to what the playoffs are all about. Let's hope they can roll that into many more seasons to come.

marstc09
01-13-2009, 09:26 AM
"midgensa" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:






They didn't loose very many games with Booty and I believe he was atleast the MVP of one of the Rose Bowls if not both which he had really good games. Booty put up solid numbers but he wasn't the flashy QB. Infact when he was injured I thought there QB play declined, some felt had he not gone injured they might have went undefeated.


Sanchez won the 2009 Rose Bowl Offensive MVP of the game. He took the team to a 12-1 record. The unfortunate lose to Oregon State kept them from what I think would have been a better Championship game against Florida. 34/10 TD to INT ratio, a 164.6 rating, and 65.8 completion %. I hope he stays one more year. I want to see what he can do. All I know is the QB class will be decent next year.


Yeah no doubt, I seen Sanchez play a couple times he looked very solid. Those numbers are definitly better than Booty's.


Sanchez is going to replace Birk ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


I didn't see anyone say that... I take it this is another one of your brilant "sarcasm posts" your so good at creating.

By the way my opinion is Sullivan is the man to do that Job, you should know that by know if you read the last couple pages. Who's to say I'm not right though, cause I really don't know, I just have an idea just like the Birk lovers have the idea its a smart idea to bring him back.




He's just like most and hates derailed threads




Yeah ... no shit. I clicked here to read what thoughts were on Birk and see if I could be swayed one way or another only to hear JDB and Mark Sanchez's life stories. Ugh.


Marrdro started it.
;D

Marrdro
01-13-2009, 09:32 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:








They didn't loose very many games with Booty and I believe he was atleast the MVP of one of the Rose Bowls if not both which he had really good games. Booty put up solid numbers but he wasn't the flashy QB. Infact when he was injured I thought there QB play declined, some felt had he not gone injured they might have went undefeated.


Sanchez won the 2009 Rose Bowl Offensive MVP of the game. He took the team to a 12-1 record. The unfortunate lose to Oregon State kept them from what I think would have been a better Championship game against Florida. 34/10 TD to INT ratio, a 164.6 rating, and 65.8 completion %. I hope he stays one more year. I want to see what he can do. All I know is the QB class will be decent next year.


Yeah no doubt, I seen Sanchez play a couple times he looked very solid. Those numbers are definitly better than Booty's.


Sanchez is going to replace Birk ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


I didn't see anyone say that... I take it this is another one of your brilant "sarcasm posts" your so good at creating.

By the way my opinion is Sullivan is the man to do that Job, you should know that by know if you read the last couple pages. Who's to say I'm not right though, cause I really don't know, I just have an idea just like the Birk lovers have the idea its a smart idea to bring him back.




He's just like most and hates derailed threads




Yeah ... no pooh. I clicked here to read what thoughts were on Birk and see if I could be swayed one way or another only to hear JDB and Mark Sanchez's life stories. Ugh.


Marrdro started it.
;D

He's a yutz.
No one should listen to that cat, however in this case I believe VikingsTW said something about JDB, Marrdro agreed with his assesment and another cat said.....


I have not thrown him under the bus but people in USC nation believe Mark Sanchez should have been the starter.

I think that cat was Mars not Marr.

CTVikingfan
01-13-2009, 09:34 AM
I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time

V-Unit
01-13-2009, 09:40 AM
"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?

Marrdro
01-13-2009, 09:47 AM
"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?

Probably the same rationale that went into the thought that Birk could replace Christie.

V-Unit
01-13-2009, 09:52 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?

Probably the same rationale that went into the thought that Birk could replace Christie.


Birk is from CT?

marstc09
01-13-2009, 10:00 AM
"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?


Did you watch him in college? The man received many praises from college coaches. He has sat a year under on of the best centers in Vikings history and maybe NFL history. He was part of an offensive line that let Darius Walker rush for 100 yards in 6 games. Do you know who that is? Didn't think so. He has been making blocking calls since his sophomore season was the nations top center in 2006 and 2007. Many people were surprised he fell so low and we got a steal. He was a great student in college and I read somewhere that he has a high IQ. I will look for that link. Those things in theory translate to a good football player. That is why he think Sullivan is capable of replacing Birk. Need any more facts that could lead someone to believe that? I for one love the kid from watching Notre Dame often. Maybe he won't be a Birk but we have a guy backing him up that seems to have the tools to be successful.

marstc09
01-13-2009, 10:01 AM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?

Probably the same rationale that went into the thought that Birk could replace Christie.


Birk is from CT?


Birk is from St. Paul, MN and Sullivan is from Greenwich, CT.

V-Unit
01-13-2009, 10:11 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?

Probably the same rationale that went into the thought that Birk could replace Christie.


Birk is from CT?


Birk is from St. Paul, MN and Sullivan is from Greenwich, CT.


Well, being from CT was the only reason he gave....

Marrdro
01-13-2009, 10:12 AM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?

Probably the same rationale that went into the thought that Birk could replace Christie.


Birk is from CT?
What? Your off your game today aren't you.
Who said Birk is from CT?

V-Unit
01-13-2009, 10:18 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?


Did you watch him in college? The man received many praises from college coaches. He has sat a year under on of the best centers in Vikings history and maybe NFL history. He was part of an offensive line that let Darius Walker rush for 100 yards in 6 games. Do you know who that is? Didn't think so. He has been making blocking calls since his sophomore season was the nations top center in 2006 and 2007. Many people were surprised he fell so low and we got a steal. He was a great student in college and I read somewhere that he has a high IQ. I will look for that link. Those things in theory translate to a good football player. That is why he think Sullivan is capable of replacing Birk. Need any more facts that could lead someone to believe that? I for one love the kid from watching Notre Dame often. Maybe he won't be a Birk but we have a guy backing him up that seems to have the tools to be successful.


I wish that all that college success could accurately be translated to the pros, but we both know that to assume that he will be a good player is nothing more than a guess.

All I really want to see is his play in some real NFL games before throwing him the baton and telling him to run with it. Unfortunately, we weren't in rebuilding mode so we couldn't do it this year. If he is as good as advertised, he needs to start taking reps with the first team in practice, and then in games.

I would much rather prefer a smooth transition than a gap of 8 games (or however long it might take) where we are held back by inferior play at center. In the last 5 years we have stuggled because of young inconsistent play at QB, RT, TE, WR, FB, DE, LB, CB, S, and P. Can we please put an end to this?

Marrdro
01-13-2009, 10:25 AM
"V" wrote:


I wish that all that college success could accurately be translated to the pros, but we both know that to assume that he will be a good player is nothing more than a guess.

All I really want to see is his play in some real NFL games before throwing him the baton and telling him to run with it. Unfortunately, we weren't in rebuilding mode so we couldn't do it this year. If he is as good as advertised, he needs to start taking reps with the first team in practice, and then in games.

I would much rather prefer a smooth transition than a gap of 8 games (or however long it might take) where we are held back by inferior play at center. In the last 5 years we have stuggled because of young inconsistent play at QB, RT, TE, WR, FB, DE, LB, CB, S, and P. Can we please put an end to this?

Tell me how that happens without him actually taking snaps in real games?

Seriously, there are a couple of people on here that continue to tout that they don't trust a Olmen until he proves himself.
Pretty hard to prove oneself unless oneself actually plays which equates to having the batton handed to them now doesn't it?

Of course those same posters will come with some sort of hairbrained scheme like splitting snaps during the week to maker sure both guys are ready when in fact we all know that the starters get the predominance of the snaps so they can be ready with the backups getting very little.

V-Unit
01-13-2009, 10:58 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I wish that all that college success could accurately be translated to the pros, but we both know that to assume that he will be a good player is nothing more than a guess.

All I really want to see is his play in some real NFL games before throwing him the baton and telling him to run with it. Unfortunately, we weren't in rebuilding mode so we couldn't do it this year. If he is as good as advertised, he needs to start taking reps with the first team in practice, and then in games.

I would much rather prefer a smooth transition than a gap of 8 games (or however long it might take) where we are held back by inferior play at center. In the last 5 years we have stuggled because of young inconsistent play at QB, RT, TE, WR, FB, DE, LB, CB, S, and P. Can we please put an end to this?

Tell me how that happens without him actually taking snaps in real games?

Seriously, there are a couple of people on here that continue to tout that they don't trust a Olmen until he proves himself.
Pretty hard to prove oneself unless oneself actually plays which equates to having the batton handed to them now doesn't it?

Of course those same posters will come with some sort of hairbrained scheme like splitting snaps during the week to maker sure both guys are ready when in fact we all know that the starters get the predominance of the snaps so they can be ready with the backups getting very little.


It doesn't apply to just OL, it applies to every position on the field. The exact thing happend when Tyrell Johnson had to start, and he mediocre play all but proved my point. If you have the luxury of a great veteran in front of a rookie, use that vet until you are certain that the young guy is ready for the real deal. I said it about Wiggins, I said it about Richardson, I said it about Sharper, I said it about Birk. My arguement has not changed.

It does not happen without taking snaps in real games, so give him snaps in real games! It gives you a preview to what can be realistically expected from the guy at the pro level.

You say splitting snaps can't be done? Not even in practice? That's funny because I seem to remember this guy named Cedric Griffin who was able to replace an incumbent veteran because of his play in backup duty. I seem to remember a rookie CB named Marcus McCauley who same time at nickel, against #1 WRs no less, only to be moved way down the depth chart when better talent got onboard. I seem to remember this Peterson guy who was a highly touted rookie, but was worked into the offense slowly because we already have a really good RB that we could use while AD adjusted to the pro game.

Is it harder to do on the OL? Certainly, but if the guy is good enough to replace Birk, they need to find a way to get him legitimate reps, making for a smooth transition. I certainly won't pass judgement before that happens. All i Know is that Birk is good and the majority of young players don't pan out.

Of course, we could just let him walk and take a chance on this guy. It might work out, but it isn't my preferred way to go about things. I've seen too many Lance-Johnstone-for-Erasmus-James moments.

Marrdro
01-13-2009, 11:01 AM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I wish that all that college success could accurately be translated to the pros, but we both know that to assume that he will be a good player is nothing more than a guess.

All I really want to see is his play in some real NFL games before throwing him the baton and telling him to run with it. Unfortunately, we weren't in rebuilding mode so we couldn't do it this year. If he is as good as advertised, he needs to start taking reps with the first team in practice, and then in games.

I would much rather prefer a smooth transition than a gap of 8 games (or however long it might take) where we are held back by inferior play at center. In the last 5 years we have stuggled because of young inconsistent play at QB, RT, TE, WR, FB, DE, LB, CB, S, and P. Can we please put an end to this?

Tell me how that happens without him actually taking snaps in real games?

Seriously, there are a couple of people on here that continue to tout that they don't trust a Olmen until he proves himself.
Pretty hard to prove oneself unless oneself actually plays which equates to having the batton handed to them now doesn't it?

Of course those same posters will come with some sort of hairbrained scheme like splitting snaps during the week to maker sure both guys are ready when in fact we all know that the starters get the predominance of the snaps so they can be ready with the backups getting very little.


It doesn't apply to just OL, it applies to every position on the field. The exact thing happend when Tyrell Johnson had to start, and he mediocre play all but proved my point. If you have the luxury of a great veteran in front of a rookie, use that vet until you are certain that the young guy is ready for the real deal. I said it about Wiggins, I said it about Richardson, I said it about Sharper, I said it about Birk. My arguement has not changed.

It does not happen without taking snaps in real games, so give him snaps in real games! It gives you a preview to what can be realistically expected from the guy at the pro level.

You say splitting snaps can't be done? Not even in practice? That's funny because I seem to remember this guy named Cedric Griffin who was able to replace an incumbent veteran because of his play in backup duty. I seem to remember a rookie CB named Marcus McCauley who same time at nickel, against #1 WRs no less, only to be moved way down the depth chart when better talent got onboard. I seem to remember this Peterson guy who was a highly touted rookie, but was worked into the offense slowly because we already have a really good RB that we could use while AD adjusted to the pro game.

Is it harder to do on the OL? Certainly, but if the guy is good enough to replace Birk, they need to find a way to get him legitimate reps, making for a smooth transition. I certainly won't pass judgement before that happens. All i Know is that Birk is good and the majority of young players don't pan out.

Of course, we could just let him walk and take a chance on this guy. It might work out, but it isn't my preferred way to go about things. I've seen too many Lance-Johnstone-for-Erasmus-James moments.

But we also saw the opposite happen in our LB'r corp shift in 2006 and our S shift last year.

Seems to me that if the staff thinks he is ready to be the starter than I am ready.

kevoncox
01-13-2009, 11:08 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I wish that all that college success could accurately be translated to the pros, but we both know that to assume that he will be a good player is nothing more than a guess.

All I really want to see is his play in some real NFL games before throwing him the baton and telling him to run with it. Unfortunately, we weren't in rebuilding mode so we couldn't do it this year. If he is as good as advertised, he needs to start taking reps with the first team in practice, and then in games.

I would much rather prefer a smooth transition than a gap of 8 games (or however long it might take) where we are held back by inferior play at center. In the last 5 years we have stuggled because of young inconsistent play at QB, RT, TE, WR, FB, DE, LB, CB, S, and P. Can we please put an end to this?

Tell me how that happens without him actually taking snaps in real games?

Seriously, there are a couple of people on here that continue to tout that they don't trust a Olmen until he proves himself.
Pretty hard to prove oneself unless oneself actually plays which equates to having the batton handed to them now doesn't it?

Of course those same posters will come with some sort of hairbrained scheme like splitting snaps during the week to maker sure both guys are ready when in fact we all know that the starters get the predominance of the snaps so they can be ready with the backups getting very little.


It doesn't apply to just OL, it applies to every position on the field. The exact thing happend when Tyrell Johnson had to start, and he mediocre play all but proved my point. If you have the luxury of a great veteran in front of a rookie, use that vet until you are certain that the young guy is ready for the real deal. I said it about Wiggins, I said it about Richardson, I said it about Sharper, I said it about Birk. My arguement has not changed.

It does not happen without taking snaps in real games, so give him snaps in real games! It gives you a preview to what can be realistically expected from the guy at the pro level.

You say splitting snaps can't be done? Not even in practice? That's funny because I seem to remember this guy named Cedric Griffin who was able to replace an incumbent veteran because of his play in backup duty. I seem to remember a rookie CB named Marcus McCauley who same time at nickel, against #1 WRs no less, only to be moved way down the depth chart when better talent got onboard. I seem to remember this Peterson guy who was a highly touted rookie, but was worked into the offense slowly because we already have a really good RB that we could use while AD adjusted to the pro game.

Is it harder to do on the OL? Certainly, but if the guy is good enough to replace Birk, they need to find a way to get him legitimate reps, making for a smooth transition. I certainly won't pass judgement before that happens. All i Know is that Birk is good and the majority of young players don't pan out.

Of course, we could just let him walk and take a chance on this guy. It might work out, but it isn't my preferred way to go about things. I've seen too many Lance-Johnstone-for-Erasmus-James moments.

But we also saw the opposite happen in our LB'r corp shift in 2006 and our S shift last year.

Seems to me that if the staff thinks he is ready to be the starter than I am ready.


Perharps if this offense could click like it is supposed to we can blow out a few teams and our 2nd stringers can get into the games. V i agree with you. We have had too many untested players tossed into the arena and told to sink or swim. Why is it when ever we solve a problem we try to create 2 new ones. We finally fixed our pass rush issues and now we mant to make Center a problem that needs to be fixed. Why not just keep the good peices that we have and become an elite team? Why must we always strive for average?

V-Unit
01-13-2009, 11:10 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I wish that all that college success could accurately be translated to the pros, but we both know that to assume that he will be a good player is nothing more than a guess.

All I really want to see is his play in some real NFL games before throwing him the baton and telling him to run with it. Unfortunately, we weren't in rebuilding mode so we couldn't do it this year. If he is as good as advertised, he needs to start taking reps with the first team in practice, and then in games.

I would much rather prefer a smooth transition than a gap of 8 games (or however long it might take) where we are held back by inferior play at center. In the last 5 years we have stuggled because of young inconsistent play at QB, RT, TE, WR, FB, DE, LB, CB, S, and P. Can we please put an end to this?

Tell me how that happens without him actually taking snaps in real games?

Seriously, there are a couple of people on here that continue to tout that they don't trust a Olmen until he proves himself.
Pretty hard to prove oneself unless oneself actually plays which equates to having the batton handed to them now doesn't it?

Of course those same posters will come with some sort of hairbrained scheme like splitting snaps during the week to maker sure both guys are ready when in fact we all know that the starters get the predominance of the snaps so they can be ready with the backups getting very little.


It doesn't apply to just OL, it applies to every position on the field. The exact thing happend when Tyrell Johnson had to start, and he mediocre play all but proved my point. If you have the luxury of a great veteran in front of a rookie, use that vet until you are certain that the young guy is ready for the real deal. I said it about Wiggins, I said it about Richardson, I said it about Sharper, I said it about Birk. My arguement has not changed.

It does not happen without taking snaps in real games, so give him snaps in real games! It gives you a preview to what can be realistically expected from the guy at the pro level.

You say splitting snaps can't be done? Not even in practice? That's funny because I seem to remember this guy named Cedric Griffin who was able to replace an incumbent veteran because of his play in backup duty. I seem to remember a rookie CB named Marcus McCauley who same time at nickel, against #1 WRs no less, only to be moved way down the depth chart when better talent got onboard. I seem to remember this Peterson guy who was a highly touted rookie, but was worked into the offense slowly because we already have a really good RB that we could use while AD adjusted to the pro game.

Is it harder to do on the OL? Certainly, but if the guy is good enough to replace Birk, they need to find a way to get him legitimate reps, making for a smooth transition. I certainly won't pass judgement before that happens. All i Know is that Birk is good and the majority of young players don't pan out.

Of course, we could just let him walk and take a chance on this guy. It might work out, but it isn't my preferred way to go about things. I've seen too many Lance-Johnstone-for-Erasmus-James moments.

But we also saw the opposite happen in our LB'r corp shift in 2006 and our S shift last year.

Seems to me that if the staff thinks he is ready to be the starter than I am ready.


Please tell me that you aren't comparing Dwight Smith and Madieu Williams to Matt Birk and John Sullivan. That would be a horrible example. MWill had 48 career starts before he ever donned a Vikings uniform. Dwight Smith was basically chased out of town. Birk has played at an elite level before declining to solid play after his injury three years ago. Sullivan has never seen the field in games that count.

I will give you that the staff has been good with their draft picks. Still, that lapse in which we miss the former vet still exists. Maybe I am being picky, but if our team is to start reaching for loftier goals, we can't afford the growing pains of young players.

Marrdro
01-13-2009, 12:12 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I wish that all that college success could accurately be translated to the pros, but we both know that to assume that he will be a good player is nothing more than a guess.

All I really want to see is his play in some real NFL games before throwing him the baton and telling him to run with it. Unfortunately, we weren't in rebuilding mode so we couldn't do it this year. If he is as good as advertised, he needs to start taking reps with the first team in practice, and then in games.

I would much rather prefer a smooth transition than a gap of 8 games (or however long it might take) where we are held back by inferior play at center. In the last 5 years we have stuggled because of young inconsistent play at QB, RT, TE, WR, FB, DE, LB, CB, S, and P. Can we please put an end to this?

Tell me how that happens without him actually taking snaps in real games?

Seriously, there are a couple of people on here that continue to tout that they don't trust a Olmen until he proves himself.
Pretty hard to prove oneself unless oneself actually plays which equates to having the batton handed to them now doesn't it?

Of course those same posters will come with some sort of hairbrained scheme like splitting snaps during the week to maker sure both guys are ready when in fact we all know that the starters get the predominance of the snaps so they can be ready with the backups getting very little.


It doesn't apply to just OL, it applies to every position on the field. The exact thing happend when Tyrell Johnson had to start, and he mediocre play all but proved my point. If you have the luxury of a great veteran in front of a rookie, use that vet until you are certain that the young guy is ready for the real deal. I said it about Wiggins, I said it about Richardson, I said it about Sharper, I said it about Birk. My arguement has not changed.

It does not happen without taking snaps in real games, so give him snaps in real games! It gives you a preview to what can be realistically expected from the guy at the pro level.

You say splitting snaps can't be done? Not even in practice? That's funny because I seem to remember this guy named Cedric Griffin who was able to replace an incumbent veteran because of his play in backup duty. I seem to remember a rookie CB named Marcus McCauley who same time at nickel, against #1 WRs no less, only to be moved way down the depth chart when better talent got onboard. I seem to remember this Peterson guy who was a highly touted rookie, but was worked into the offense slowly because we already have a really good RB that we could use while AD adjusted to the pro game.

Is it harder to do on the OL? Certainly, but if the guy is good enough to replace Birk, they need to find a way to get him legitimate reps, making for a smooth transition. I certainly won't pass judgement before that happens. All i Know is that Birk is good and the majority of young players don't pan out.

Of course, we could just let him walk and take a chance on this guy. It might work out, but it isn't my preferred way to go about things. I've seen too many Lance-Johnstone-for-Erasmus-James moments.

But we also saw the opposite happen in our LB'r corp shift in 2006 and our S shift last year.

Seems to me that if the staff thinks he is ready to be the starter than I am ready.


Perharps if this offense could click like it is supposed to we can blow out a few teams and our 2nd stringers can get into the games. V i agree with you. We have had too many untested players tossed into the arena and told to sink or swim. Why is it when ever we solve a problem we try to create 2 new ones. We finally fixed our pass rush issues and now we mant to make Center a problem that needs to be fixed. Why not just keep the good peices that we have and become an elite team? Why must we always strive for average?

So now your agreeing with V.
Bet that makes him feel happy my friend.... ;D

As to throwing youngsters into the mix and getting results.
Hasn't that what we as fans have been subjected to for the past 3 years, with mildly suprising results in alot of areas over that time frame?

Why would you think it wouldn't work at the C position?
Do I expect a youngster to come in and play like a probowler?
Hell know, but I also am lucid enough to know that a aged Vet (who used to be a probowler) doesn't play like a probowler anymore either.

V-Unit
01-13-2009, 12:29 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


So now your agreeing with V.
Bet that makes him feel happy my friend.... ;D

As to throwing youngsters into the mix and getting results.
Hasn't that what we as fans have been subjected to for the past 3 years, with mildly suprising results in alot of areas over that time frame?

Why would you think it wouldn't work at the C position?
Do I expect a youngster to come in and play like a probowler?
Hell know, but I also am lucid enough to know that a aged Vet (who used to be a probowler) doesn't play like a probowler anymore either.


Never did I say that Sullivan won't pan out. The whole way to find out is to learn the hard way. He probably will pan out, but I just don't want to deal with the growing pains of another young player. That is something that has hindered this team in the last 3 years. There has been a lapse every time.

It's time to realize that what we have on the field is pretty damn good, keep the pieces in place, and draft more premier depth like Sullivan to step in when our good vet players call it quits. I realize that the transition to a younger guy must happen, I just prefer it to be a smooth one. The last thing TJ needs is an inexperienced center.

Purple Floyd
01-13-2009, 06:05 PM
"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?


Hopefully after his third year in the league he will be as good as Cook. Imagine the great line we would have with the two of them playing at that level.

PackSux!
01-13-2009, 06:17 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?


Hopefully after his third year in the league he will be as good as Cook. Imagine the great line we would have with the two of them playing at that level.


I am assuming you are being sarcastic?

The main reason i want to see Birk back for another year or two is to teach Sullivan or Cook how to be a great center and leader.


I remember the Superstar talking about the Class Jeff had when he taught Matt Birk everything he knew, I just hope Birk will have a chance to show his class.

Purple Floyd
01-13-2009, 06:18 PM
"PackSux!" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"CTVikingfan" wrote:


I like Birk but we could use the money. We have sullivan plus sully is from CT so he gets the hometown vote. How many times this year has Birk made mistakes? alot more than he used to. Maybe it is time


What makes you think that John Sullivan is capable of replacing Matt Birk?


Hopefully after his third year in the league he will be as good as Cook. Imagine the great line we would have with the two of them playing at that level.


I am assuming you are being sarcastic?

The main reason i want to see Birk back for another year or two is to teach Sullivan or Cook how to be a great center and leader.


I remember the Superstar talking about the Class Jeff had when he taught Matt Birk everything he knew, I just hope Birk will have a chance to show his class.


What? Me- Sarcastic? Never.

ejmat
01-13-2009, 09:10 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:
[quote]
"ejmat" wrote:
[quote]

Yes I do believe there isn't much of a differnce between their 5th WR and Toomer at this point in his career.

We are talking talent not intelligence.
Toomer is aging.
I am not going to agree all of our coaching staff is below average.
I do believe some are.
I never stated (please find where I do) that our coaching staff is above average.
The only hting I've done is stated they are not as bad as some of you make them out to be and we have only spoken about Childress.
I never even stated he was better than Coughlin.



I watch Gmen games, and there is a big difference between Toomer and Manningham. Route running, consistency and Qb targets are 3 that jump out my head. Manningham will be good and he has a big name but at this point "Well Dressed" Toomer is in another class compared to him. Perharps out points have been diluted by the 14 pages of arguing. All I have been trying to say is that while Childress has improved, it
is not enough or it's happening too slow.


"ejmat" wrote:



I do agree Toomer is better but in another league is not true.
Toomer is a wiley ol vet and is a very sound player.
Manningham at this point in his career has excellent talent but hasn't been given the chance to show it yet.
You have to ask yourself, can Manningham run routes?
Yes he can.
Can he catch the ball?
Yes he can.
QB targets I would say Manningham has an advantage over Toomer.
So the comparison of the 2nd WR to the 5th are not that much of a difference.
They are both NFL players so I would say they are in the same league as each other.

The 14 pages of debating back and forth has grown many tangents.
However one of your reasons of knocking Childress was based on "barely beating the Giants 2nd stringers".
That is what has been going on for the past several pages.
The bottom line it works both ways.
We had some of our 2nd stringers in too.
We beat them with their starters in and we won the game.
That is the bottom line.
Now the same 1st string Giants lost to the 1st string Eagles.
Does that mean they are a bad team?
No!
Does that mean the Vikes are bad?
No.
It means the Eagles went into the playoffs a hot team and they have kept it going.
They both have room to grow and I am excited about next season for the Vikings.
That is how I want to feel during the offseason.

We'll agree to disagree.


Damn!
Why would you kill a great debate like this?
Okay, I'll agree to disagree ;D

Marrdro
01-14-2009, 11:17 AM
"V" wrote:


Can we please put an end to this?

OK, if you really wannna...... :'(

V-Unit
01-14-2009, 04:53 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Can we please put an end to this?

OK, if you really wannna...... :'(


Thanks for taking that completely out of context.

nephilimstorm
01-14-2009, 05:02 PM
I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen

Marrdro
01-15-2009, 03:12 PM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Can we please put an end to this?

OK, if you really wannna...... :'(


Thanks for taking that completely out of context.

I actually replied to you several times after that.
Just couldn't resist the urge as I was re-reading some of them..... ;D

singersp
01-16-2009, 07:20 AM
"Nephilim" wrote:


I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.

V-Unit
01-16-2009, 08:45 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Nephilim" wrote:


I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 08:49 AM
"V" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Nephilim" wrote:


I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.

V-Unit
01-16-2009, 09:03 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Nephilim" wrote:


I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 09:11 AM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Nephilim" wrote:


I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.

V-Unit
01-16-2009, 09:23 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:




I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.


A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.

Prophet
01-16-2009, 09:26 AM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:






I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.


A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


lmao, delegate to the admin. gov't guy.
Get him working!

singersp
01-16-2009, 09:43 AM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Nephilim" wrote:


I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

What a novel idea! We should sign Birk to do that for Sullivan. He fits the mold with no experience.

But Marr would rather see us throw all our eggs in one basket with high hopes that he doesn't turn out like Cook or Mozes.

singersp
01-16-2009, 09:45 AM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:






I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.


A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.

jargomcfargo
01-16-2009, 10:32 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:








I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.


A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.




I can't see any way this line gets better with the loss of Birk.
I also saw a definate drop off in safety play after Sharper was hurt against the Eagles.

I like to think Childress' comments meant that he didn't know if they would be back because he doesn't negotiate contracts.

bleedpurple
01-16-2009, 11:06 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:




I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

What a novel idea! We should sign Birk to do that for Sullivan. He fits the mold with no experience.

But Marr would rather see us throw all our eggs in one basket with high hopes that he doesn't turn out like Cook or Mozes.



yeah, i Mike Tice were still our line coach, then i'd have more confidence in starting Sullivan.. but he's not.. i have absolutely NO confidence that our O-line coach can develop any of the talent we have on the line... just look at the guys we've brought in... Cook, Johnson, Hicks.. about hererra is the only one that is decent...
I know MJ was a Tice pick, but he's done nothing but get demoted under Chilly...

Hey Chilly can we atleast get a new OL coach??
Perhaps, someone that actually knows what the hell their doing in regards to teaching zone blocking scheme and pass protection and how to transition from one to the other!!

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 11:21 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:








I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.


A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
Damn Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.

bleedpurple
01-16-2009, 12:00 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:










I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.


A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


so according to you that leaves him in the top 16!.. still not 20 and that also means that he is right in the middle of the pack when it comes to ALL the teams in the league.. trust me i'd rather have a proven vet coming off a probowl season just 1 season ago, that is right smack in the middle than an unproven guy any day... that most ppl claim isn't ready to take the reigns...

besides, some of those guys you suggest on that list, like McCLure, Weigman, Meester, Harris, are all debatable regarding whether they are better than Birk... I'm just saying.

V4L
01-16-2009, 12:05 PM
Yah Birk is average at this point.. And we can just HOPE Sullivan is average.. I wish to keep him

A list of 20 safetys would be too easy to go ahead of Sharper.. Then NFL is stocked with young up and coming talent.. And already elite I.E Polomalu, Reed, Wilson etc..

V4L
01-16-2009, 12:09 PM
And Marr u were pretty close with ur list.. Just threw out a number at 20.. Not bad getting 15.. I agree with all.. A couple are debateable but could go either way.. Id say he's in the middle of the pack

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 12:11 PM
"V4L" wrote:


And Marr u were pretty close with ur list.. Just threw out a number at 20.. Not bad getting 15.. I agree with all.. A couple are debateable but could go either way.. Id say he's in the middle of the pack

I really liked Mangold coming out.

Damn Buckeyes...... ;D

Purple Floyd
01-16-2009, 12:13 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:












I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.


A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


so according to you that leaves him in the top 16!.. still not 20 and that also means that he is right in the middle of the pack when it comes to ALL the teams in the league.. trust me i'd rather have a proven vet coming off a probowl season just 1 season ago, that is right smack in the middle than an unproven guy any day... that most ppl claim isn't ready to take the reigns...

besides, some of those guys you suggest on that list, like McCLure, Weigman, Meester, Harris, are all debatable regarding whether they are better than Birk... I'm just saying.


Now I would like to see the upgraded list that shows the list of centers that would be better than Sullivan next year. I am almost positive that our OL coach can get him to top 5 if he would go to the OTA's.

V4L
01-16-2009, 12:15 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


And Marr u were pretty close with ur list.. Just threw out a number at 20.. Not bad getting 15.. I agree with all.. A couple are debateable but could go either way.. Id say he's in the middle of the pack

I really liked Mangold coming out.

Damn Buckeyes...... ;D



I was a fan too

I was also a Sampson fan.. I wanted that cat.. Thought he was a sleeper

bleedpurple
01-16-2009, 12:20 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:














I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.


A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


so according to you that leaves him in the top 16!.. still not 20 and that also means that he is right in the middle of the pack when it comes to ALL the teams in the league.. trust me i'd rather have a proven vet coming off a probowl season just 1 season ago, that is right smack in the middle than an unproven guy any day... that most ppl claim isn't ready to take the reigns...

besides, some of those guys you suggest on that list, like McCLure, Weigman, Meester, Harris, are all debatable regarding whether they are better than Birk... I'm just saying.


Now I would like to see the upgraded list that shows the list of centers that would be better than Sullivan next year. I am almost positive that our OL coach can get him to top 5 if he would go to the OTA's.


that was a joke right!!... ???

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 12:29 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:














I do not think we will re-sign Birk...unless he wants to be paid less to remain a viking. Which Does happen


While watching Vikings Weekly Wednesday, the question of Birk & Sharpers FA came up. Childress stated that he couldn't say for sure if either would be back or not.

He went on to say that both players expressed interest in FA & that he respected that.

Reading between the lines tells me that the Vikings will allow them to explore the FA market & not attempt to re-sign them beforehand.


Which means they're both gone.

I agree.
All indications are that they will be gone unless (big unless) they take bargain basement contracts to stick around.

The biggest indicator for me (other than a decline in play) is that this staff, from the limited info we have on them, will resign thier core Vets the year before thier contract is due in most cases.


Actually, its the simple fact that Birk and Sharper are still too good to survive Free Agency, and just about everyone knows it. He would be great to plug in front of an upcoming young guy with no experience.

Simple fact huh...... ;D
I will admit that they can still play, however, you have to admit that they don't play at the level of above average.

Truth be told I don't think either of them are in the top 20 at thier posisitons right now.


A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


so according to you that leaves him in the top 16!.. still not 20 and that also means that he is right in the middle of the pack when it comes to ALL the teams in the league.. trust me i'd rather have a proven vet coming off a probowl season just 1 season ago, that is right smack in the middle than an unproven guy any day... that most ppl claim isn't ready to take the reigns...

besides, some of those guys you suggest on that list, like McCLure, Weigman, Meester, Harris, are all debatable regarding whether they are better than Birk... I'm just saying.


Now I would like to see the upgraded list that shows the list of centers that would be better than Sullivan next year. I am almost positive that our OL coach can get him to top 5 if he would go to the OTA's.

I wonder if our OL coach knows how to teach anything but the ZB schdme.

As to which ones I would like to have before Sullivan?
I haven't even got done looking at our team.
I have no idea which ones would be available at this point.

I am sure I will have a couple of options after the SB and I am in full offseason mode.... ;D

V-Unit
01-16-2009, 12:31 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:




A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
Damn Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.

bleedpurple
01-16-2009, 12:33 PM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:




A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.


sorry man but you gotta put Mawae and Koppen in there.... and WTF!!! yall forgetting olen kreutz!!

V-Unit
01-16-2009, 12:35 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:




A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.


sorry man but you gotta put Mawae and Koppen in there.... and WTF!!! yall forgetting olen kreutz!!


Sometimes you ahve to overcompensate for stupidity.

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 12:40 PM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:




A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.

A C isn't that bad considering my memory bank......... ;D
Wow, pretty liberal with the lineouts.

Why Wiegmann (learns from the father of ZB scheme) or Hardwick?

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 12:43 PM
"V" wrote:


Sometimes you ahve to overcompensate for stupidity.

Carefull......Don't see a smiley after that.
Could be taken the wrong way.
Not by me of course.....

V4L
01-16-2009, 12:50 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:




A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.

A C isn't that bad considering my memory bank......... ;D
Wow, pretty liberal with the lineouts.

Why Wiegmann (learns from the father of ZB scheme) or Hardwick?



I was thinkin the same thing

Hardwick is much better then Birk

Casey Weigman is better

Mawae is better.. And was totally missed by the Titans in his absense

I don't agree with a few he crossed out

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 12:52 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:






A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.

A C isn't that bad considering my memory bank......... ;D
Wow, pretty liberal with the lineouts.

Why Wiegmann (learns from the father of ZB scheme) or Hardwick?



I was thinkin the same thing

Hardwick is much better then Birk

Casey Weigman is better

Mawae is better.. And was totally missed by the Titans in his absense

I don't agree with a few he crossed out

I actually thought the kid played pretty good in Mawae's absence even though there was some dropoff, which was to be expected I think.

V4L
01-16-2009, 12:54 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:








A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.

A C isn't that bad considering my memory bank......... ;D
Wow, pretty liberal with the lineouts.

Why Wiegmann (learns from the father of ZB scheme) or Hardwick?



I was thinkin the same thing

Hardwick is much better then Birk

Casey Weigman is better

Mawae is better.. And was totally missed by the Titans in his absense

I don't agree with a few he crossed out

I actually thought the kid played pretty good in Mawae's absence even though there was some dropoff, which was to be expected I think.



Oh yah definitley.. He stepped up more then most expected.. But he was missed... They couldn't get as much inside as they wanted

And you expect that kinda drop off with Birk to Sullivan right? I know you are ready to embrace it.. It has to happen sometime

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 12:58 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:










A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.

A C isn't that bad considering my memory bank......... ;D
Wow, pretty liberal with the lineouts.

Why Wiegmann (learns from the father of ZB scheme) or Hardwick?



I was thinkin the same thing

Hardwick is much better then Birk

Casey Weigman is better

Mawae is better.. And was totally missed by the Titans in his absense

I don't agree with a few he crossed out

I actually thought the kid played pretty good in Mawae's absence even though there was some dropoff, which was to be expected I think.



Oh yah definitley.. He stepped up more then most expected.. But he was missed... They couldn't get as much inside as they wanted

And you expect that kinda drop off with Birk to Sullivan right? I know you are ready to embrace it.. It has to happen sometime

I am never ready to embrace a drop off in play, however, as you said, it has to happen.

Most on here kindof dodge the whole Christie to Birk debate as they don't have to much room to discuss thier opinion when they consider that.

I threw Mangold and Harris out there as well, I am sure I could dig and find other recent youngsters stepping in.

Long story short, we should never fear change but we should never change just for changes sake. I am sure the FO will make the right call.

V4L
01-16-2009, 01:00 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:












A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.

A C isn't that bad considering my memory bank......... ;D
Wow, pretty liberal with the lineouts.

Why Wiegmann (learns from the father of ZB scheme) or Hardwick?



I was thinkin the same thing

Hardwick is much better then Birk

Casey Weigman is better

Mawae is better.. And was totally missed by the Titans in his absense

I don't agree with a few he crossed out

I actually thought the kid played pretty good in Mawae's absence even though there was some dropoff, which was to be expected I think.



Oh yah definitley.. He stepped up more then most expected.. But he was missed... They couldn't get as much inside as they wanted

And you expect that kinda drop off with Birk to Sullivan right? I know you are ready to embrace it.. It has to happen sometime

I am never ready to embrace a drop off in play, however, as you said, it has to happen.

Most on here kindof dodge the whole Christie to Birk debate as they don't have to much room to discuss thier opinion when they consider that.

I threw Mangold and Harris out there as well, I am sure I could dig and find other recent youngsters stepping in.

Long story short, we should never fear change but we should never change just for changes sake. I am sure the FO will make the right call.



I'm kinda undecided.. Right now I would want Birk in there.. he still is an average center and until we see our future man play that's more then we can say about him

Im skeptical.. If it happens i'll support him and wish him the best

It's gotta happen.. If it happens this year I wish it could have happened with him getting worked in easier.. But knowing Sullivan he will be up to the challenge

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 01:03 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:














A list of 20 Centers better than Birk and 20 Safeties better than Sharper is requested.


Please PM me that list Marr, I want to frame that & hang that on my wall for laughs.


In no paticular order

Brown, Ravens
McClure Falcons
Gurode, Cowboys
Wiegmann, Denver
Saturday, Colts (might top my list)
Meester, Jags
Satele Miami
(Watching that cat pull in that wildcat is fun)
Koppen, Pats
Ohara, Giants
Mangold, Jetts (Started from day one.
gol 'darnit Probably the nastiest C in the league right now.)
Jackson, Iggles (Pass protecting fool)
Hartwig Steelers
Hardwick, Chargers.
(Good enough for LT, good enough for me)
Mawae, Titans (a bit old but still getting it done)
Harris, Titans (Ooops, rook stepping up)

How many is that.....15.
5 off.
Not a bad swag was it.


15/20 is 75%, That's a C.

He's certainly top ten in my book.

A C isn't that bad considering my memory bank......... ;D
Wow, pretty liberal with the lineouts.

Why Wiegmann (learns from the father of ZB scheme) or Hardwick?



I was thinkin the same thing

Hardwick is much better then Birk

Casey Weigman is better

Mawae is better.. And was totally missed by the Titans in his absense

I don't agree with a few he crossed out

I actually thought the kid played pretty good in Mawae's absence even though there was some dropoff, which was to be expected I think.



Oh yah definitley.. He stepped up more then most expected.. But he was missed... They couldn't get as much inside as they wanted

And you expect that kinda drop off with Birk to Sullivan right? I know you are ready to embrace it.. It has to happen sometime

I am never ready to embrace a drop off in play, however, as you said, it has to happen.

Most on here kindof dodge the whole Christie to Birk debate as they don't have to much room to discuss thier opinion when they consider that.

I threw Mangold and Harris out there as well, I am sure I could dig and find other recent youngsters stepping in.

Long story short, we should never fear change but we should never change just for changes sake. I am sure the FO will make the right call.



I'm kinda undecided.. Right now I would want Birk in there.. he still is an average center and until we see our future man play that's more then we can say about him

Im skeptical.. If it happens i'll support him and wish him the best

It's gotta happen.. If it happens this year I wish it could have happened with him getting worked in easier.. But knowing Sullivan he will be up to the challenge

Same here, as long as we don't pay him alot of money.
Same goes with Sharp.
Bring him back but at a lowball/bargain basement contract.

Purple Floyd
01-16-2009, 01:16 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:









Most on here kindof dodge the whole Christie to Birk debate as they don't have to much room to discuss thier opinion when they consider that.



I just don't see it as relevant. As much as some on here like to slam Tice, he was one of the best OL coaches in the league and demonstrated that he could teach blocking technique and bring along young talent like he did with Birk, Stringer,Dixon etc.

OTOH you look at our line coach and he doesn't have that amount of clout. That is the difference.

Marrdro
01-16-2009, 01:20 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:









Most on here kindof dodge the whole Christie to Birk debate as they don't have to much room to discuss thier opinion when they consider that.



I just don't see it as relevant. As much as some on here like to slam Tice, he was one of the best OL coaches in the league and demonstrated that he could teach blocking technique and bring along young talent like he did with Birk, Stringer,Dixon etc.

OTOH you look at our line coach and he doesn't have that amount of clout. That is the difference.

I will readily give you the OL Coaching point.


I do, however, think that the discussion on Birk and Christie is germane here.
I wasn't a member of any chat sight back then, however, I do remember reading alot of the local yutz columnists sayine how dumb the staff was for doing what they were doing.

Typically I have found that alot of Vikings fans mimick what those yutz's write.
Not sure what I find sadder, that they write it, or that the yutz's believe it.
:-

Big C
01-16-2009, 01:21 PM
Birk's play dropped off this season and I'm not just referring to the bad snaps. He is not the physical presense he used to be. I have no problems starting Sullivan this year instead of go to FA. I would rather spend FA money on a QB and FB. Tahi SUCKS.