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View Full Version : Turnovers, Vikes have gotta stop it.



gagarr
12-29-2008, 03:37 PM
Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans


+14
Baltimore Ravens


+13
Indianapolis Colts


+9
New York Giants



+9
Carolina Panthers


+6
Pittsburgh Steelers

+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons




-3
Minnesota Vikings


-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes

Mr-holland
12-29-2008, 03:43 PM
It seems we're getting unable to forcing them ourselfs to. We have to create more TO's and keep ouw own to a minimum ( doh )

ejmat
12-29-2008, 03:43 PM
"gagarr" wrote:


Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Great topic gagarr.
I say this because it is just another reason that I can point out to people that Childress isn't that bad.
Here he has a winning record without his best player on defense (EJ) and without a good QB.
Throw in they have the worst turnover ratio out of all the playoff teams and it just proves he did a good job this year regardless of what some may think.
Now imagine if Gus didn't have all those INTs and Peterson didn't fumble away the rock so much how much more potent the offense would seem.
These are player mistakes not coaches mistakes.
Certainly not Childress'.
I may blame Bienemy more than I would blame Childress as he should be the one teaching Peterson the proper way to hold the ball.

midgensa
12-29-2008, 03:44 PM
It is obvious when you look at our team that if we do not turn the ball over we simply would win a very large number of games.
We have won some games despite turnovers, but we have lost a couple that we very well could have won if it was not for the turnovers (in particular the Falcons game, the Bears game and Titans game).
Let's hope we hold on to the ball against the Eagles, because if we do not turn it over against them I think we are in really good shape in this one.

MaxVike
12-29-2008, 03:51 PM
"gagarr" wrote:


Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Does your source indicate how many of the turnovers were in the redzone?
Enemy Territory w/in field goal range?
The INT in the EndZone yesterday almost sent me into orbit I was so pissed off.

Also...IMO, it isn't a lock if we don't turn it over.
It is the only chance we have to win.
Jim Johnson and his defense are going to terrorize TJack.
Our WR's will be man-to-man all day long.
TJack must find Shiancoe early and often to neutralize the blitz.

Prophet
12-29-2008, 03:52 PM
"MaxVike" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Does your source indicate how many of the turnovers were in the redzone?
Enemy Territory w/in field goal range?
The INT in the EndZone yesterday almost sent me into orbit I was so pissed off.

Also...IMO, it isn't a lock if we don't turn it over.
It is the only chance we have to win.
Jim Johnson and his defense are going to terrorize TJack.
Our WR's will be man-to-man all day long.
TJack must find Shiancoe early and often to neutralize the blitz.


Yeah, that would be an interesting breakdown.
The turnovers are atrocious and the penalties, which appear to be under control.
Miami is surprising in this category.

gagarr
12-29-2008, 04:11 PM
"MaxVike" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Does your source indicate how many of the turnovers were in the redzone?
Enemy Territory w/in field goal range?
The INT in the EndZone yesterday almost sent me into orbit I was so pissed off.

Also...IMO, it isn't a lock if we don't turn it over.
It is the only chance we have to win.
Jim Johnson and his defense are going to terrorize TJack.
Our WR's will be man-to-man all day long.
TJack must find Shiancoe early and often to neutralize the blitz.


I'm just using the NFL.com stats, so breakdown is limited.

I agree the WR's will be open, but I don't think Shiancoe is the guy to stop it.
AD and CT need to step up, through blocking the blitzers, rushing to the next level and getting 20+ yd runs, and big yardage screen passes.

CT should have a BIG day.

V4L
12-29-2008, 04:14 PM
YUCK

WE need a good week in practice

SEND THE HOUSE AT JACKSON in practice.. he needs to get used to it.. I think he can handle the blitz better then Gus so im happy he will be in

AP can not fumble!! He dropped it a couple times yesterday and when he hit the ground it popped out a couple (yes I know thats not a fumble) PLEASE beat him up the pillows this week and punish him for fumbling

Berrian needs to get healthy.. Let him rest up this week.. We gotta hit the Eagles deep early to keep them honest before they start attacking

Shank will have a good game.. he will be our safety outlet

Brewtal
12-29-2008, 04:19 PM
I have actually been calling AP by his new nickname.

"Fumbles All Day"

gagarr
12-29-2008, 04:20 PM
"V4L" wrote:


YUCK

WE need a good week in practice

SEND THE HOUSE AT JACKSON in practice.. he needs to get used to it.. I think he can handle the blitz better then Gus so im happy he will be in

AP can not fumble!! He dropped it a couple times yesterday and when he hit the ground it popped out a couple (yes I know thats not a fumble) PLEASE beat him up the pillows this week and punish him for fumbling

Berrian needs to get healthy.. Let him rest up this week.. We gotta hit the Eagles deep early to keep them honest before they start attacking

Shank will have a good game.. he will be our safety outlet


Your right about AD.
Watching highlights of the Cowgirls- Eagles game, the Eagles relentlessly go after the ball.
Given AD's rep for giving it up, the Eagles D will be running force fumble drills all weak.

V4L
12-29-2008, 04:22 PM
"gagarr" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


YUCK

WE need a good week in practice

SEND THE HOUSE AT JACKSON in practice.. he needs to get used to it.. I think he can handle the blitz better then Gus so im happy he will be in

AP can not fumble!! He dropped it a couple times yesterday and when he hit the ground it popped out a couple (yes I know thats not a fumble) PLEASE beat him up the pillows this week and punish him for fumbling

Berrian needs to get healthy.. Let him rest up this week.. We gotta hit the Eagles deep early to keep them honest before they start attacking

Shank will have a good game.. he will be our safety outlet


Your right about AD.
Watching highlights of the Cowgirls- Eagles game, the Eagles relentlessly go after the ball.
Given AD's rep for giving it up, the Eagles D will be running force fumble drills all weak.



Yah they even took 2 back yesterday

FAD (fumble all day) can not do this next week otherwise it will be an easy win for the Iggles

MaxVike
12-30-2008, 09:28 AM
"gagarr" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Does your source indicate how many of the turnovers were in the redzone?
Enemy Territory w/in field goal range?
The INT in the EndZone yesterday almost sent me into orbit I was so pissed off.

Also...IMO, it isn't a lock if we don't turn it over.
It is the only chance we have to win.
Jim Johnson and his defense are going to terrorize TJack.
Our WR's will be man-to-man all day long.
TJack must find Shiancoe early and often to neutralize the blitz.


I'm just using the NFL.com stats, so breakdown is limited.

I agree the WR's will be open, but I don't think Shiancoe is the guy to stop it.
AD and CT need to step up, through blocking the blitzers, rushing to the next level and getting 20+ yd runs, and big yardage screen passes.

CT should have a BIG day.


Honestly, I think Shiancoe is a huge key for this game.


The Eagles have had some difficulty with good TE's, primarily due to blitzing schemes and placing LBs 1-on-1 with them.
There are several keys to this defense, but, it starts with Trent Cole's ability to pressure off the edge, Asante Samuel's lock down ability, and, BRIAN DAWKINS.
Trent Cole is one of the most underrated players in the NFL, there is a reason the Eagle's paid Samuel all that cake, and, there is a reason Dawkins is being mentioned as "potential HOF" material.
Dawkins can take over a game, Samuel can shut down virtually whomever he is covering and Cole brings it - hard.


TJack is gonna have a split second to recognize where the weakness to attack is...and, it will not be pre-snap.
He will need to keep an eye on these three players all day long.
If they get pressure with no blitz, we are dead...unless AD has 150+ and CT also has a big day.
IMO, Shiancoe has an opportunity to have another huge game here...TJack is the key.
Shiancoe has proven that he can gain seperation from LBs and safeties...if they bring Dawkins, you gotta find him.

SIUviking
12-30-2008, 09:46 AM
"MaxVike" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Does your source indicate how many of the turnovers were in the redzone?
Enemy Territory w/in field goal range?
The INT in the EndZone yesterday almost sent me into orbit I was so pissed off.

Also...IMO, it isn't a lock if we don't turn it over.
It is the only chance we have to win.
Jim Johnson and his defense are going to terrorize TJack.
Our WR's will be man-to-man all day long.
TJack must find Shiancoe early and often to neutralize the blitz.


I'm just using the NFL.com stats, so breakdown is limited.

I agree the WR's will be open, but I don't think Shiancoe is the guy to stop it.
AD and CT need to step up, through blocking the blitzers, rushing to the next level and getting 20+ yd runs, and big yardage screen passes.

CT should have a BIG day.


Honestly, I think Shiancoe is a huge key for this game.


The Eagles have had some difficulty with good TE's, primarily due to blitzing schemes and placing LBs 1-on-1 with them.
There are several keys to this defense, but, it starts with Trent Cole's ability to pressure off the edge, Asante Samuel's lock down ability, and, BRIAN DAWKINS.
Trent Cole is one of the most underrated players in the NFL, there is a reason the Eagle's paid Samuel all that cake, and, there is a reason Dawkins is being mentioned as "potential HOF" material.
Dawkins can take over a game, Samuel can shut down virtually whomever he is covering and Cole brings it - hard.


TJack is gonna have a split second to recognize where the weakness to attack is...and, it will not be pre-snap.
He will need to keep an eye on these three players all day long.
If they get pressure with no blitz, we are dead...unless AD has 150+ and CT also has a big day.
IMO, Shiancoe has an opportunity to have another huge game here...TJack is the key.
Shiancoe has proven that he can gain seperation from LBs and safeties...if they bring Dawkins, you gotta find him.


I still disagree. I do not think Tjack is the key to the game. It will be the D. If they can rattle McNabb and shut down the run completely, get a freaking TO, then we should just be able to run the ball and wear them out.

If the D allows big passes and we get behind early then it will be put on Tjack's shoulders to throw like Manning and we all know he will likely never be that type of QB not matter how much he progresses.

Overlord
12-30-2008, 11:50 AM
"gagarr" wrote:


Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Thanks for posting this.
I was just thinking of turnovers and penalties and saw this thread.
Just goes to show that the team has talent.
We can beat anyone if we don't beat ourselves.

Here are some penalty stats too:


TeamYards
Colts543
Eagles593
Dolphins615
Chargers708
Panthers736
Titans750
Ravens792
Steelers801
Cardinals816
Falcons854
Giants866
Vikings1002

gagarr
12-30-2008, 01:01 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Thanks for posting this.
I was just thinking of turnovers and penalties and saw this thread.
Just goes to show that the team has talent.
We can beat anyone if we don't beat ourselves.

Here are some penalty stats too:


TeamYards
Colts543
Eagles593
Dolphins615
Chargers708
Panthers736
Titans750
Ravens792
Steelers801
Cardinals816
Falcons854
Giants866
Vikings1002



Vikes TO differentials and result:
Packer game: -1
Lost by 5
Colts game: +1 Lost by 3

Playoff team
Panthers game: +1 Won by 10
Playoff team
Titans game: -3
Lost by 13
Playoff team
Saints game: +4
Won by 3
Lions game: -2
Won by 2
Bears game: -4 Lost by 7
Texans game +2 Won by 7
Packers game: -3 Won by 1
Bucs game: -1 Lost by 6
Jags game: +4 Won by 18
Bears game: +2 Won by 20
Lions game: -2 Won by 4
Cards game: +1 won by 21
Playoff team
Falcons game: -4 Lost by 7
Playoff team
Giants game: -1 Won by 1
Playoff team

Vikes are 3-3 against Playoff teams and have a -5 TO differential against them.

I predict the Vikes will beat the Eagles if they don't turn the ball over or have a differential of +1 or more.

Marrdro
12-30-2008, 01:06 PM
"SIUviking" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Does your source indicate how many of the turnovers were in the redzone?
Enemy Territory w/in field goal range?
The INT in the EndZone yesterday almost sent me into orbit I was so pissed off.

Also...IMO, it isn't a lock if we don't turn it over.
It is the only chance we have to win.
Jim Johnson and his defense are going to terrorize TJack.
Our WR's will be man-to-man all day long.
TJack must find Shiancoe early and often to neutralize the blitz.


I'm just using the NFL.com stats, so breakdown is limited.

I agree the WR's will be open, but I don't think Shiancoe is the guy to stop it.
AD and CT need to step up, through blocking the blitzers, rushing to the next level and getting 20+ yd runs, and big yardage screen passes.

CT should have a BIG day.


Honestly, I think Shiancoe is a huge key for this game.


The Eagles have had some difficulty with good TE's, primarily due to blitzing schemes and placing LBs 1-on-1 with them.
There are several keys to this defense, but, it starts with Trent Cole's ability to pressure off the edge, Asante Samuel's lock down ability, and, BRIAN DAWKINS.
Trent Cole is one of the most underrated players in the NFL, there is a reason the Eagle's paid Samuel all that cake, and, there is a reason Dawkins is being mentioned as "potential HOF" material.
Dawkins can take over a game, Samuel can shut down virtually whomever he is covering and Cole brings it - hard.


TJack is gonna have a split second to recognize where the weakness to attack is...and, it will not be pre-snap.
He will need to keep an eye on these three players all day long.
If they get pressure with no blitz, we are dead...unless AD has 150+ and CT also has a big day.
IMO, Shiancoe has an opportunity to have another huge game here...TJack is the key.
Shiancoe has proven that he can gain seperation from LBs and safeties...if they bring Dawkins, you gotta find him.


I still disagree. I do not think Tjack is the key to the game. It will be the D. If they can rattle McNabb and shut down the run completely, get a freaking TO, then we should just be able to run the ball and wear them out.

If the D allows big passes and we get behind early then it will be put on Tjack's shoulders to throw like Manning and we all know he will likely never be that type of QB not matter how much he progresses.

I like the original post.
Very enlightening......

As to you two....I disagree with the both of you.
;D

How well our O and D line play will be key.

If our OL can protect TJ and open holes our offense will click especially in the passing scheme as Shanc can get in the seams and exploit that area.
If he is in blocking, he isn't gonna make that big of an impact.

If our DL can get pressure and stop the run without alot of help from our LB's and secondary blitzing we will be able to hold the zones and minimize any effor they have both in the passing but running attacks as well.

V-Unit
12-30-2008, 01:11 PM
LMAO,

I remember getting flamed for saying this as little as two weeks ago.

Just play clean football guys and you'll get that win.

V4L
12-30-2008, 01:12 PM
"V" wrote:


LMAO,

I remember getting flamed for saying this as little as two weeks ago.

Just play clean football guys and you'll get that win.



Who flamed you?

Anyone that knows anything about football knows whoever wins the TO battle more times then not wins the game

Prophet
12-30-2008, 01:16 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


...Here are some penalty stats too:


TeamYards
Colts543
Eagles593
Dolphins615
Chargers708
Panthers736
Titans750
Ravens792
Steelers801
Cardinals816
Falcons854
Giants866
Vikings1002



That is just painful to look at.

V4L
12-30-2008, 01:21 PM
Ewww

Too many penelties

We have been better the last few weeks though

Marrdro
12-30-2008, 01:25 PM
"V4L" wrote:


Ewww

Too many penelties

We have been better the last few weeks though


You are correct, it is getting better, however, we are still worse than last year....

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stats/?cat=team&pan=15

V4L
12-30-2008, 01:27 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


Ewww

Too many penelties

We have been better the last few weeks though


You are correct, it is getting better, however, we are still worse than last year....

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stats/?cat=team&pan=15



Yup

That is one of the knocks I have on Chilly

Our guys still do the same thing.. I know he isn't the one doing it.. But it is undisaplined

Prophet
12-30-2008, 01:28 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


Ewww

Too many penelties

We have been better the last few weeks though


You are correct, it is getting better, however, we are still worse than last year....

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stats/?cat=team&pan=15



Yup

That is one of the knocks I have on Chilly

Our guys still do the same thing.. I know he isn't the one doing it.. But it is undisaplined


This is where Marr says it is because of the fluffy training camp.

Marrdro
12-30-2008, 01:31 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


Ewww

Too many penelties

We have been better the last few weeks though


You are correct, it is getting better, however, we are still worse than last year....

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stats/?cat=team&pan=15



Yup

That is one of the knocks I have on Chilly

Our guys still do the same thing.. I know he isn't the one doing it.. But it is undisaplined


This is where Marr says it is because of the fluffy training camp.


LOL, well played sir...... ;D

I have a whole paragraph in my "Forgive me Letter" on that very subject.

ejmat
12-30-2008, 01:33 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


Ewww

Too many penelties

We have been better the last few weeks though


You are correct, it is getting better, however, we are still worse than last year....

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stats/?cat=team&pan=15



Yup

That is one of the knocks I have on Chilly

Our guys still do the same thing.. I know he isn't the one doing it.. But it is undisaplined


This is where Marr says it is because of the fluffy training camp.


LOL, well played sir...... ;D

I have a whole paragraph in my "Forgive me Letter" on that very subject.


I'm not quite sure penalties are the direct result of that.
Didn't have a lot of penalties over the past 2 seasons as well?
I'm pretty sure they had hard training camps those two years.
I am only going on memory here so blast away if I am wrong
;D

Marrdro
12-30-2008, 01:34 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:




Ewww

Too many penelties

We have been better the last few weeks though


You are correct, it is getting better, however, we are still worse than last year....

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stats/?cat=team&pan=15



Yup

That is one of the knocks I have on Chilly

Our guys still do the same thing.. I know he isn't the one doing it.. But it is undisaplined


This is where Marr says it is because of the fluffy training camp.


LOL, well played sir...... ;D

I have a whole paragraph in my "Forgive me Letter" on that very subject.


I'm not quite sure penalties are the direct result of that.
Didn't have a lot of penalties over the past 2 seasons as well?
I'm pretty sure they had hard training camps those two years.
I am only going on memory here so blast away if I am wrong
;D

Check the link.
It gives you our average and ranking for the last 2 years.
We are in fact, worse.

V-Unit
12-30-2008, 01:54 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"V" wrote:


LMAO,

I remember getting flamed for saying this as little as two weeks ago.

Just play clean football guys and you'll get that win.



Who flamed you?

Anyone that knows anything about football knows whoever wins the TO battle more times then not wins the game


"ragz" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"ragz" wrote:


"V" wrote:



Of course I don't expect that out of TJ every week. TJ doesn't need to be 11-18 with 4 TDs for us to win. He really just needs above 60% completion and no turnovers and I'll be plenty happy with him.

We have the 3rd best rushing game and are 11th in points scored. The biggest struggle our offense has had is not passing, but turnovers. Eliminating those mistakes would do much more for our offense than changing the scheme to be mroe pass effective. I'm 100% ok with the coaches using our offenses strengths. I don't need a complete offense where we are versatile and can do anything. If that is what you are looking for, you ain't going to find it in Minny. The strong running game has set up a deep passing threat and the dumpoffs to RBs underneath have worked very well.

Eliminate the turnovers. In part I do blame Chilly for that, but talk about a new coach or better schemes are huge changes when we really just need to fix that one thing.
well your not thinking long term, or looking at the whole picture when referring to your stats honestly in the 2nd half of the season what has the defense consistently done, set up the offense for points or scored them themselves.
that very reason has been either what has kept us in games where ferrotte and the offense was doing nothing, or had us jump out to a lead where the defense has been able to pin back and get sacks and more turnovers.
in teh games where ferrotte was throwing picks that were setting up tds for other teams, that was the only thing keeping them in games.
i checked a couple of weeks back, but in ferrottes last five starts 37 points were scored off of his turnovers, and if not for a couple of 4th down stands, more could have.


Note: I love how he accuses me of not looking long term/whole picture, then proceeds to refer to only the last six games when judging defensive performance and the last 5 games when judging Frerotte's performance



What was our big offensive problem when we played Tampa? QB play? Nope. It was turnovers. Obviously, if a team if able to stop our run, we will probably lose, but that is no easy task. I say trust in the scheme, because we certainly are not going to win by airing it out, that is not how our team is built. For some reason you think we have the personnell, but we choose not to do it strategy-wise.

The Bears are ranked 7th against the run and we shredded them, again only losing because of ST miscues and turnovers, we beat them soundly when those errors were fixed. Those two games and the TB game prove that we can run against solid defenses, we just have to eliminate mistakes.
In other words, a recognize we will be going up against competition, but that doesn't scare me. I'm confident we'll still be able to run. The key is ZERO turnovers.
that is so so lame, eliminate turnovers.
oh really?
wow, thats never the difference in any game.
problem is teams can overcome them if they can score.
dont fool yourself into thinking our offense is this juggernaut that punches the ball in all year long cuz it hasn't.
we are gonna need more than what everyone knows we are gonna do, or at least the proof that we can do it if asked too.
i have no problem on relying on the things we are built around, but i do have a problem with the claim we dont have the personell to throw the football.
shank obviously is a weapon that is underutilized, and what is berrian on pace to have 30 less catches than he had last year with rex grossman and kyle orten?
i'm sorry, but averaging 1-2 catches a game for our big play reciever is not exactly something i think is a good gameplan.
and lets not bs again and act as if we are at least targetting him alot cuz we know that thats not true.
i dont know what your problem is with thinking somebody besides peterson should be involved on a more regular basis.
we may very well be good enough to just run the football all the way to the super bowl, but i happen to think that we may have to do more than that just based on the raised level of play during palyoff time.
you act as if i'm suggesting we have to overhaul, when in reality i'm suggesting what we do do is probably not gonna be good enough in the playoffs.
maybe it is.

and when did we turn the ball over in the tampa game, at the end when we were losing.
its not exactly like our qb play had us going up and down the field.
we scored one td.
tampa pretty much made one big play all day long on offense, and even when your defense plays well, that one play and them slowing down our run lead to a loss.
turnovers just finished off our day.

MaxVike
12-31-2008, 02:03 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"SIUviking" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:




Vikes have the worst turnover mark of playoff teams.

Miami Dolphins




+17
Tennessee Titans



+14
Baltimore Ravens



+13
Indianapolis Colts



+9
New York Giants




+9
Carolina Panthers



+6
Pittsburgh Steelers


+4
San Diego Chargers

+4
Philadelphia Eagles


+3
Arizona Cardinals



0
Atlanta Falcons





-3
Minnesota Vikings



-6

It could even be considered a positive, that even though the Vikes have shot themselves in the foot many times they still have won games.

If the Vikes don't turnover the ball, IMO the Eagles game is a lock for the Vikes


Does your source indicate how many of the turnovers were in the redzone?
Enemy Territory w/in field goal range?
The INT in the EndZone yesterday almost sent me into orbit I was so pissed off.

Also...IMO, it isn't a lock if we don't turn it over.
It is the only chance we have to win.
Jim Johnson and his defense are going to terrorize TJack.
Our WR's will be man-to-man all day long.
TJack must find Shiancoe early and often to neutralize the blitz.


I'm just using the NFL.com stats, so breakdown is limited.

I agree the WR's will be open, but I don't think Shiancoe is the guy to stop it.
AD and CT need to step up, through blocking the blitzers, rushing to the next level and getting 20+ yd runs, and big yardage screen passes.

CT should have a BIG day.


Honestly, I think Shiancoe is a huge key for this game.


The Eagles have had some difficulty with good TE's, primarily due to blitzing schemes and placing LBs 1-on-1 with them.
There are several keys to this defense, but, it starts with Trent Cole's ability to pressure off the edge, Asante Samuel's lock down ability, and, BRIAN DAWKINS.
Trent Cole is one of the most underrated players in the NFL, there is a reason the Eagle's paid Samuel all that cake, and, there is a reason Dawkins is being mentioned as "potential HOF" material.
Dawkins can take over a game, Samuel can shut down virtually whomever he is covering and Cole brings it - hard.


TJack is gonna have a split second to recognize where the weakness to attack is...and, it will not be pre-snap.
He will need to keep an eye on these three players all day long.
If they get pressure with no blitz, we are dead...unless AD has 150+ and CT also has a big day.
IMO, Shiancoe has an opportunity to have another huge game here...TJack is the key.
Shiancoe has proven that he can gain seperation from LBs and safeties...if they bring Dawkins, you gotta find him.


I still disagree. I do not think Tjack is the key to the game. It will be the D. If they can rattle McNabb and shut down the run completely, get a freaking TO, then we should just be able to run the ball and wear them out.

If the D allows big passes and we get behind early then it will be put on Tjack's shoulders to throw like Manning and we all know he will likely never be that type of QB not matter how much he progresses.

I like the original post.
Very enlightening......

As to you two....I disagree with the both of you.

;D

How well our O and D line play will be key.

If our OL can protect TJ and open holes our offense will click especially in the passing scheme as Shanc can get in the seams and exploit that area.
If he is in blocking, he isn't gonna make that big of an impact.

If our DL can get pressure and stop the run without alot of help from our LB's and secondary blitzing we will be able to hold the zones and minimize any effor they have both in the passing but running attacks as well.


Line play is critically important, that's a given
;D.
I don't believe our OLine alone will be able to handle the onslaught that Jim Johnson is going to bring at TJack.
Therefore, Kleinny, CT, AD, Tahi, Dugan, and/or Shiancoe are all gonna be helping.
My suggestion is that the coaching staff should figure out a way to protect with an extra guy (because, rest assured, Johnson is going to blitz the hell out of Jackson), and get Shiancoe matched up in the deep middle.
If they can't do that, then the OLine will need to plow the way for 150+ for AD.

Alternatively, I'm not convinced our DLine alone will be able to stop Westie.
Remember, Reid looks at the short passing game to him as an extension of the running game.
Stopping Westbrook will be impossible without a HUGE game from Greenway, possibly Winfield.
I look for one of them to shadow Westie.
As for pressuring McNabb, yep, completely agree.

If the Vikes can neutralize Samuel, Cole, Dawkins, and Westie, they stand a very good chance.
If not, lights out IMO.

V4L
12-31-2008, 08:28 PM
"V" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"V" wrote:


LMAO,

I remember getting flamed for saying this as little as two weeks ago.

Just play clean football guys and you'll get that win.



Who flamed you?

Anyone that knows anything about football knows whoever wins the TO battle more times then not wins the game


"ragz" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"ragz" wrote:


"V" wrote:



Of course I don't expect that out of TJ every week. TJ doesn't need to be 11-18 with 4 TDs for us to win. He really just needs above 60% completion and no turnovers and I'll be plenty happy with him.

We have the 3rd best rushing game and are 11th in points scored. The biggest struggle our offense has had is not passing, but turnovers. Eliminating those mistakes would do much more for our offense than changing the scheme to be mroe pass effective. I'm 100% ok with the coaches using our offenses strengths. I don't need a complete offense where we are versatile and can do anything. If that is what you are looking for, you ain't going to find it in Minny. The strong running game has set up a deep passing threat and the dumpoffs to RBs underneath have worked very well.

Eliminate the turnovers. In part I do blame Chilly for that, but talk about a new coach or better schemes are huge changes when we really just need to fix that one thing.
well your not thinking long term, or looking at the whole picture when referring to your stats honestly in the 2nd half of the season what has the defense consistently done, set up the offense for points or scored them themselves.
that very reason has been either what has kept us in games where ferrotte and the offense was doing nothing, or had us jump out to a lead where the defense has been able to pin back and get sacks and more turnovers.
in teh games where ferrotte was throwing picks that were setting up tds for other teams, that was the only thing keeping them in games.
i checked a couple of weeks back, but in ferrottes last five starts 37 points were scored off of his turnovers, and if not for a couple of 4th down stands, more could have.


Note: I love how he accuses me of not looking long term/whole picture, then proceeds to refer to only the last six games when judging defensive performance and the last 5 games when judging Frerotte's performance



What was our big offensive problem when we played Tampa? QB play? Nope. It was turnovers. Obviously, if a team if able to stop our run, we will probably lose, but that is no easy task. I say trust in the scheme, because we certainly are not going to win by airing it out, that is not how our team is built. For some reason you think we have the personnell, but we choose not to do it strategy-wise.

The Bears are ranked 7th against the run and we shredded them, again only losing because of ST miscues and turnovers, we beat them soundly when those errors were fixed. Those two games and the TB game prove that we can run against solid defenses, we just have to eliminate mistakes.
In other words, a recognize we will be going up against competition, but that doesn't scare me. I'm confident we'll still be able to run. The key is ZERO turnovers.
that is so so lame, eliminate turnovers.
oh really?
wow, thats never the difference in any game.
problem is teams can overcome them if they can score.
dont fool yourself into thinking our offense is this juggernaut that punches the ball in all year long cuz it hasn't.
we are gonna need more than what everyone knows we are gonna do, or at least the proof that we can do it if asked too.
i have no problem on relying on the things we are built around, but i do have a problem with the claim we dont have the personell to throw the football.
shank obviously is a weapon that is underutilized, and what is berrian on pace to have 30 less catches than he had last year with rex grossman and kyle orten?
i'm sorry, but averaging 1-2 catches a game for our big play reciever is not exactly something i think is a good gameplan.
and lets not bs again and act as if we are at least targetting him alot cuz we know that thats not true.
i dont know what your problem is with thinking somebody besides peterson should be involved on a more regular basis.
we may very well be good enough to just run the football all the way to the super bowl, but i happen to think that we may have to do more than that just based on the raised level of play during palyoff time.
you act as if i'm suggesting we have to overhaul, when in reality i'm suggesting what we do do is probably not gonna be good enough in the playoffs.
maybe it is.

and when did we turn the ball over in the tampa game, at the end when we were losing.
its not exactly like our qb play had us going up and down the field.
we scored one td.
tampa pretty much made one big play all day long on offense, and even when your defense plays well, that one play and them slowing down our run lead to a loss.
turnovers just finished off our day.





He wasn't flaming you

He HATED Gus and his turnovers..

And he was being sarcastic in the second part

Big C
12-31-2008, 09:39 PM
Do you think running the ball with Taylor a little bit more can limit the turnovers? I feel that we lost the balance between AP and CT over the last two games. CT is now used more as a 3rd down back instead of a change-of-pace back like Stewart (CAR), Ward (NYG) and Norwood (ATL).

The 1780 yards are taking it's toll on AP. We have to keep him fresh by sharing the load with CT a little more. We have one of the best running tandems in the league, but we're starting to revert back to the one-trick-pony offense hoping AP can break a big one.

CT has had a lot more success in the red zone than AP this year this year too. His ability to catch the ball makes him a bigger threat in the red zone. Isn't that what makes NYG running game tick? Batter the defense with the bruising hard runner and hit them with the shifty little guy that fits in smaller spaces.