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View Full Version : Vikings' special teams sets NFL record



kevoncox
12-15-2008, 07:45 AM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-6-357/Cardinals-creeping-back.html

Not the kind of record we wanted. 7 Tds is 8 too many.
:'(

Marrdro
12-15-2008, 07:48 AM
And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)

Purple Floyd
12-15-2008, 07:53 AM
On the other hand Berrian now holds the record for the longest offensive TD in team history and the longest punt return in history if what the announcers said yesterday is true. Even if the punt return wasn't a record, BB is still earning his paycheck.

Prophet
12-15-2008, 07:54 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


I just question you about your lack of judgement on all topics.

Marrdro
12-15-2008, 07:58 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


I just question you about your lack of judgement on all topics.

Its the yutz in me.
;D

BleedinPandG
12-15-2008, 08:01 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


Kick-offs were horrible yesterday... they all landed about the 10 yard line... generally speaking we stopped the returner between the 25 and 30 and if that's what it takes for our ST D to hold, so be it... but I think we can strive for more next year.

Hard to blame the FG kicker for the block though Longwell did miss a few big ones earlier in the year (I still think the Indy one would've won the game).
He has also made some clutch kicks this year.
Gotta take some bad with the great I guess.

Marrdro
12-15-2008, 08:03 AM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


Kick-offs were horrible yesterday... they all landed about the 10 yard line... generally speaking we stopped the returner between the 25 and 30 and if that's what it takes for our ST D to hold, so be it... but I think we can strive for more next year.

Hard to blame the FG kicker for the block though Longwell did miss a few big ones earlier in the year (I still think the Indy one would've won the game).
He has also made some clutch kicks this year.
Gotta take some bad with the great I guess.

Welllllll, much to my suprise he did get one into the endzone my friend.
I actually jumped up and yelled when he did...... ;D

Overlord
12-15-2008, 08:13 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


Do you really blame the kickers for this?
My own opinion has been that the coverage teams have been pretty terrible.
Has the placement/hang-time on kicks been that bad?
Or on that field goal block was Longwell too slow?

Either way, it makes our defense look bad when the offense and special teams are combining to spot our opponents about a TD/game.
Also makes it harder to win.

ejmat
12-15-2008, 08:24 AM
I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.

Ranger
12-15-2008, 08:26 AM
You need to Dr. Z this.
First, identify the best kick off guys in the league.
I would say to examine the pro-bowl rosters from last year, but we all know that the pro-bowl is a joke, so I guess it's up to you.

Figure out their average kick off distance, where it lands, etc...but then watch them play in games, and time their kicks.
Basically, acquire the hang time on their kick offs.

Then, do this same block of work for Longwell.
Compare the distances and the hang times.
I suspect that they're remarkably close to each other, unless you're talking about some cannon-legged kicker like Janikowski.

kevoncox
12-15-2008, 08:30 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.

ejmat
12-15-2008, 08:36 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


You may be correct.
I would have to look at the play again.
From what I remember he was lined up on two guys.

Marrdro
12-15-2008, 08:48 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


You may be correct.
I would have to look at the play again.
From what I remember he was lined up on two guys.


The problem was they overloaded the side which resulted in Dugan having to block 2 people.
His job in that case is to take the guy with the shortest route and stick an arm out to try to slow the outer guy (which rarely works by the way).

ejmat
12-15-2008, 09:01 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


You may be correct.
I would have to look at the play again.
From what I remember he was lined up on two guys.


The problem was they overloaded the side which resulted in Dugan having to block 2 people.
His job in that case is to take the guy with the shortest route and stick an arm out to try to slow the outer guy (which rarely works by the way).




Thanks Marrdro for the clarification.
I started to think I was crazy but I would still like to see it again.
I didn't think the "inner" man was blocked either.

Marrdro
12-15-2008, 09:05 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


You may be correct.
I would have to look at the play again.
From what I remember he was lined up on two guys.


The problem was they overloaded the side which resulted in Dugan having to block 2 people.
His job in that case is to take the guy with the shortest route and stick an arm out to try to slow the outer guy (which rarely works by the way).




Thanks Marrdro for the clarification.
I started to think I was crazy but I would still like to see it again.
I didn't think the "inner" man was blocked either.

He wasn't totally blocked.
Damn good play by the Cards, poor preparation by the Vikes resulted in a player put into a bad situation......

Dugan, poor bastard, tried to do to much.
His play on 3rd and shorts made up for it though......;D

kevoncox
12-15-2008, 09:13 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:




I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


You may be correct.
I would have to look at the play again.
From what I remember he was lined up on two guys.


The problem was they overloaded the side which resulted in Dugan having to block 2 people.
His job in that case is to take the guy with the shortest route and stick an arm out to try to slow the outer guy (which rarely works by the way).




Thanks Marrdro for the clarification.
I started to think I was crazy but I would still like to see it again.
I didn't think the "inner" man was blocked either.

He wasn't totally blocked.
gol 'darnit good play by the Cards, poor preparation by the Vikes resulted in a player put into a bad situation......

Dugan, poor bastard, tried to do to much.

His play on 3rd and shorts made up for it though......;D


On the replay it showed Dugan move to the inside realize that the guy he wanted to block was block and then try to make a last ditch shove on the defender going past him. Again, it's on Dugan. Do your job!

kevoncox
12-15-2008, 09:18 AM
I'm wrong I went back and looked at it and it shows that it was just an overload and Dugan did his best.
http://www.nfl.com/teams/minnesotavikings/profile?team=MIN

Big C
12-15-2008, 09:43 AM
Our kickoff and punt coverage has improved significantly. Abdullah has been a beast over the last few weeks and Hicks was playing great coverage yesterday.

What happened to Renaud? I hope they didn't suit him because he is nursing an injury and will be back soon. There is something about the way he runs. He has almost broken two for TDs of not for tackles by the kickers over the last two or three weeks.

kevoncox
12-15-2008, 09:46 AM
"Big" wrote:


Our kickoff and punt coverage has improved significantly. Abdullah has been a beast over the last few weeks and Hicks was playing great coverage yesterday.

What happened to Renaud? I hope they didn't suit him because he is nursing an injury and will be back soon. There is something about the way he runs. He has almost broken two for TDs of not for tackles by the kickers over the last two or three weeks.


I have been his biggest supported since we signed him. The guy is a ST beast. His only issu eis he trys to run over kickers not out run them. Damn it DR pick a sideline and run away from the guy. I have seen him get tackle by 3 kickers this season ( 1 pre-season game and 2 regular season games) Should we cut hicks?

Marrdro
12-15-2008, 09:50 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm wrong I went back and looked at it and it shows that it was just an overload and Dugan did his best.
http://www.nfl.com/teams/minnesotavikings/profile?team=MIN

LOL, never doubt the Marrdro...... ;D

JK, very few on here (including me) will ever admit to being wrong.
Props my friend.

kevoncox
12-15-2008, 09:51 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm wrong I went back and looked at it and it shows that it was just an overload and Dugan did his best.
http://www.nfl.com/teams/minnesotavikings/profile?team=MIN

LOL, never doubt the Marrdro...... ;D

JK, very few on here (including me) will ever admit to being wrong.
Props my friend.


I ahve no problem with it.

ejmat
12-15-2008, 10:12 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


Our kickoff and punt coverage has improved significantly. Abdullah has been a beast over the last few weeks and Hicks was playing great coverage yesterday.

What happened to Renaud? I hope they didn't suit him because he is nursing an injury and will be back soon. There is something about the way he runs. He has almost broken two for TDs of not for tackles by the kickers over the last two or three weeks.


I have been his biggest supported since we signed him. The guy is a ST beast. His only issu eis he trys to run over kickers not out run them. Damn it DR pick a sideline and run away from the guy. I have seen him get tackle by 3 kickers this season ( 1 pre-season game and 2 regular season games) Should we cut hicks?



Reynaud was injured last game.
Before we cut him it would be good to have Reynaud healthy.
I wouldn't cry if Hicks was cut next year.

CCthebest
12-15-2008, 10:16 AM
That blocked kick was dugans and our terrible ST coach Ferreo. They are an embarassment.

ejmat
12-15-2008, 10:17 AM
"CCthebest" wrote:


That blocked kick was dugans and our terrible ST coach Ferreo. They are an embarassment.


Watch the play over again and you will see it wasn't Dugan's fault.
He was overloaded with 2 players and he made the right decision to take the one with the most direct route.
I can partly agree with your coaching statement as we weren't lined up correctly.
Dugan is not an embarrassment.

Mr-holland
12-15-2008, 10:18 AM
I can't blame Dugan for it, He picked one and it backfired. They just overloaded..

gr8vike
12-15-2008, 10:19 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


Our kickoff and punt coverage has improved significantly. Abdullah has been a beast over the last few weeks and Hicks was playing great coverage yesterday.

What happened to Renaud? I hope they didn't suit him because he is nursing an injury and will be back soon. There is something about the way he runs. He has almost broken two for TDs of not for tackles by the kickers over the last two or three weeks.


I have been his biggest supported since we signed him. The guy is a ST beast. His only issu eis he trys to run over kickers not out run them. gol 'darnit it DR pick a sideline and run away from the guy. I have seen him get tackle by 3 kickers this season ( 1 pre-season game and 2 regular season games) Should we cut hicks?



Reynaud was injured last game.
Before we cut him it would be good to have Reynaud healthy.
I wouldn't cry if Hicks was cut next year.


I was happy when we signed Hicks this offseason. He was a good ST player for the Niners, but he hasnt done crap this year and wouldn't mind if we cut him. From what I have seen a lot of players would be better returning kicks then Hicks IMO.

ejmat
12-15-2008, 10:21 AM
"gr8vike" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


Our kickoff and punt coverage has improved significantly. Abdullah has been a beast over the last few weeks and Hicks was playing great coverage yesterday.

What happened to Renaud? I hope they didn't suit him because he is nursing an injury and will be back soon. There is something about the way he runs. He has almost broken two for TDs of not for tackles by the kickers over the last two or three weeks.


I have been his biggest supported since we signed him. The guy is a ST beast. His only issu eis he trys to run over kickers not out run them. gol 'darnit it DR pick a sideline and run away from the guy. I have seen him get tackle by 3 kickers this season ( 1 pre-season game and 2 regular season games) Should we cut hicks?



Reynaud was injured last game.
Before we cut him it would be good to have Reynaud healthy.
I wouldn't cry if Hicks was cut next year.


I was happy when we signed Hicks this offseason. He was a good ST player for the Niners, but he hasnt done crap this year and wouldn't mind if we cut him. From what I have seen a lot of players would be better returning kicks then Hicks IMO.


When you look at his stats he usually made it to the 25-30 yard line which is pretty good.
However, he went up the middle every kick off and if he would have used the sideline better he may have broke a few for longer plays.

Marrdro
12-15-2008, 10:22 AM
"gr8vike" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


Our kickoff and punt coverage has improved significantly. Abdullah has been a beast over the last few weeks and Hicks was playing great coverage yesterday.

What happened to Renaud? I hope they didn't suit him because he is nursing an injury and will be back soon. There is something about the way he runs. He has almost broken two for TDs of not for tackles by the kickers over the last two or three weeks.


I have been his biggest supported since we signed him. The guy is a ST beast. His only issu eis he trys to run over kickers not out run them. gol 'darnit it DR pick a sideline and run away from the guy. I have seen him get tackle by 3 kickers this season ( 1 pre-season game and 2 regular season games) Should we cut hicks?



Reynaud was injured last game.
Before we cut him it would be good to have Reynaud healthy.
I wouldn't cry if Hicks was cut next year.


I was happy when we signed Hicks this offseason. He was a good ST player for the Niners, but he hasnt done crap this year and wouldn't mind if we cut him. From what I have seen a lot of players would be better returning kicks then Hicks IMO.

Although I gotta agree that his production hasn't been what we all expected, however, to date it appears that players seem to take at least 2 years to really get a handle on what the hell is going on with this team.

Brings me back to my whole rant on the Coaching staff and the System they use to get the players ready to play in the scheme......

I for one am willing to let him have at least one more year to see what he can do.

kevoncox
12-15-2008, 10:26 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"gr8vike" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


Our kickoff and punt coverage has improved significantly. Abdullah has been a beast over the last few weeks and Hicks was playing great coverage yesterday.

What happened to Renaud? I hope they didn't suit him because he is nursing an injury and will be back soon. There is something about the way he runs. He has almost broken two for TDs of not for tackles by the kickers over the last two or three weeks.


I have been his biggest supported since we signed him. The guy is a ST beast. His only issu eis he trys to run over kickers not out run them. gol 'darnit it DR pick a sideline and run away from the guy. I have seen him get tackle by 3 kickers this season ( 1 pre-season game and 2 regular season games) Should we cut hicks?



Reynaud was injured last game.
Before we cut him it would be good to have Reynaud healthy.
I wouldn't cry if Hicks was cut next year.


I was happy when we signed Hicks this offseason. He was a good ST player for the Niners, but he hasnt done crap this year and wouldn't mind if we cut him. From what I have seen a lot of players would be better returning kicks then Hicks IMO.

Although I gotta agree that his production hasn't been what we all expected, however, to date it appears that players seem to take at least 2 years to really get a handle on what the hell is going on with this team.

Brings me back to my whole rant on the Coaching staff and the System they use to get the players ready to play in the scheme......

I for one am willing to let him have at least one more year to see what he can do.


ST is a different beast my friend. A kick returner does not need 2 years to learn instincts.

gr8vike
12-15-2008, 10:28 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"gr8vike" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:




Our kickoff and punt coverage has improved significantly. Abdullah has been a beast over the last few weeks and Hicks was playing great coverage yesterday.

What happened to Renaud? I hope they didn't suit him because he is nursing an injury and will be back soon. There is something about the way he runs. He has almost broken two for TDs of not for tackles by the kickers over the last two or three weeks.


I have been his biggest supported since we signed him. The guy is a ST beast. His only issu eis he trys to run over kickers not out run them. gol 'darnit it DR pick a sideline and run away from the guy. I have seen him get tackle by 3 kickers this season ( 1 pre-season game and 2 regular season games) Should we cut hicks?



Reynaud was injured last game.
Before we cut him it would be good to have Reynaud healthy.
I wouldn't cry if Hicks was cut next year.


I was happy when we signed Hicks this offseason. He was a good ST player for the Niners, but he hasnt done crap this year and wouldn't mind if we cut him. From what I have seen a lot of players would be better returning kicks then Hicks IMO.

Although I gotta agree that his production hasn't been what we all expected, however, to date it appears that players seem to take at least 2 years to really get a handle on what the hell is going on with this team.

Brings me back to my whole rant on the Coaching staff and the System they use to get the players ready to play in the scheme......

I for one am willing to let him have at least one more year to see what he can do.


ST is a different beast my friend. A kick returner does not need 2 years to learn instincts.


I agree... I understand if you are trying to learn a playbook, but a have a feeling we dont run to many special plays on special teams.

Overlord
12-15-2008, 10:29 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"gr8vike" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


Our kickoff and punt coverage has improved significantly. Abdullah has been a beast over the last few weeks and Hicks was playing great coverage yesterday.

What happened to Renaud? I hope they didn't suit him because he is nursing an injury and will be back soon. There is something about the way he runs. He has almost broken two for TDs of not for tackles by the kickers over the last two or three weeks.


I have been his biggest supported since we signed him. The guy is a ST beast. His only issu eis he trys to run over kickers not out run them. gol 'darnit it DR pick a sideline and run away from the guy. I have seen him get tackle by 3 kickers this season ( 1 pre-season game and 2 regular season games) Should we cut hicks?



Reynaud was injured last game.
Before we cut him it would be good to have Reynaud healthy.
I wouldn't cry if Hicks was cut next year.


I was happy when we signed Hicks this offseason. He was a good ST player for the Niners, but he hasnt done crap this year and wouldn't mind if we cut him. From what I have seen a lot of players would be better returning kicks then Hicks IMO.

Although I gotta agree that his production hasn't been what we all expected, however, to date it appears that players seem to take at least 2 years to really get a handle on what the hell is going on with this team.

Brings me back to my whole rant on the Coaching staff and the System they use to get the players ready to play in the scheme......

I for one am willing to let him have at least one more year to see what he can do.


What were you expecting?

I've been pretty happy with our kick return game, especially the past few weeks.
So what if that means someone else is better than Hicks?
He was pretty much what we thought he was.
One fumble, but otherwise steady.

As a running back, Chester and AD have been healthy all year.
I'd just assume Hicks not be needed all year.

He's an insurance policy, and I'm glad we haven't needed him.

singersp
12-15-2008, 10:44 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


On the other hand Berrian now holds the record for the longest offensive TD in team history and the longest punt return in history if what the announcers said yesterday is true. Even if the punt return wasn't a record, BB is still earning his paycheck.


What he announced wasn't true. It certainly wasn't a league record, not even for this year. The Raider's Higgins had a 93 yarder.

The longest punt return by a Viking belongs to Charlie West. He returned a punt 98 yards against the Redskins in 1968.

kevoncox
12-15-2008, 10:54 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


On the other hand Berrian now holds the record for the longest offensive TD in team history and the longest punt return in history if what the announcers said yesterday is true. Even if the punt return wasn't a record, BB is still earning his paycheck.


What he announced wasn't true. It certainly wasn't a league record, not even for this year. The Raider's Higgins had a 93 yarder.

The longest punt return by a Viking belongs to Charlie West. He returned a punt 98 yards against the Redskins in 1968.


It's a common mistake. They always say the BB broke the longest Viking play record that was 90 yards. They always forget Chester Taylor's 95 yard run.

marstc09
12-15-2008, 11:00 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)

marstc09
12-15-2008, 11:01 PM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


Kick-offs were horrible yesterday... they all landed about the 10 yard line... generally speaking we stopped the returner between the 25 and 30 and if that's what it takes for our ST D to hold, so be it... but I think we can strive for more next year.

Hard to blame the FG kicker for the block though Longwell did miss a few big ones earlier in the year (I still think the Indy one would've won the game).
He has also made some clutch kicks this year.
Gotta take some bad with the great I guess.


Wrong.

marstc09
12-15-2008, 11:05 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


Yup that is what I saw and I had a great view. I guess it is just easier to blame the kicker because of the man love someone has for Dugan. Herrera helped block that guy. Dugan should have slowed up the outside guy more.

ejmat
12-16-2008, 06:24 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


Yup that is what I saw and I had a great view. I guess it is just easier to blame the kicker because of the man love someone has for Dugan. Herrera helped block that guy. Dugan should have slowed up the outside guy more.


I don't have man love for Dugan.
Personally I could care less if he is on the team or not.
However, if you watch the replay Dugan was put into a bad situation.
It is very difficult to block someone and slow someone else down.
That situation was more of a coaching blunder as they were not lined up correctly against AZs line up.
The guy inside was not blocked unless Dugan blocked him.
Watch the play again.

ejmat
12-16-2008, 06:28 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.

Marrdro
12-16-2008, 06:46 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fricken terrible.
::)

I agree, however, it has alot to do with the kicker......Hang time/Distance/Spot are directly related to coverage my friend.

Purple Floyd
12-16-2008, 07:04 AM
Mostly it has to do with the fact that no other team in the recorded history of the league have managed to perform quite like this one has.

Maybe they are having the same debate on the field that we are having here-

Guy 1: Are you going to tackle that guy coming your way?

Guy 2: No, I don't like the hang time so I am going to run straight ahead with my eyes closed and act like I am invisible.

Guy 1: Sounds reasonable, count me in.

Marrdro
12-16-2008, 07:17 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mostly it has to do with the fact that no other team in the recorded history of the league have managed to perform quite like this one has.

Maybe they are having the same debate on the field that we are having here-

Guy 1: Are you going to tackle that guy coming your way?

Guy 2: No, I don't like the hang time so I am going to run straight ahead with my eyes closed and act like I am invisible.

Guy 1: Sounds reasonable, count me in.

LOL,
Probably more along the lines of this........

ST Coach.
Look you ass, I told you the first 3 times were to kick it, not lets get it to that spot.

Kicker:
OK coach.
Ok Coach.

Coverage Guy 1.
So is he gonna kick it to the 10 on the left or the right this time.

Coverage Guy 2.
Over under he is 10 yards or 20 yards off that spot and on the opposite side of the field.

Coverage Guy 3.
I'll take some of that....

Coverage Guy 4.
Probably won't have much hang time either..... ;D

Purple Floyd
12-16-2008, 07:50 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mostly it has to do with the fact that no other team in the recorded history of the league have managed to perform quite like this one has.

Maybe they are having the same debate on the field that we are having here-

Guy 1: Are you going to tackle that guy coming your way?

Guy 2: No, I don't like the hang time so I am going to run straight ahead with my eyes closed and act like I am invisible.

Guy 1: Sounds reasonable, count me in.

LOL,
Probably more along the lines of this........

ST Coach.
Look you ass, I told you the first 3 times were to kick it, not lets get it to that spot.

Kicker:
OK coach.
Ok Coach.

Coverage Guy 1.
So is he gonna kick it to the 10 on the left or the right this time.

Coverage Guy 2.
Over under he is 10 yards or 20 yards off that spot and on the opposite side of the field.

Coverage Guy 3.
I'll take some of that....

Coverage Guy 4.
Probably won't have much hang time either..... ;D

Coverage guy 5.
Yeah screw it, we get paid the same whether we tackle him or not. I am going to close my eyes, run straight ahead, and act like I am invisible.


You might be right

Marrdro
12-16-2008, 07:52 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mostly it has to do with the fact that no other team in the recorded history of the league have managed to perform quite like this one has.

Maybe they are having the same debate on the field that we are having here-

Guy 1: Are you going to tackle that guy coming your way?

Guy 2: No, I don't like the hang time so I am going to run straight ahead with my eyes closed and act like I am invisible.

Guy 1: Sounds reasonable, count me in.

LOL,
Probably more along the lines of this........

ST Coach.
Look you jiggly butt, I told you the first 3 times were to kick it, not lets get it to that spot.

Kicker:
OK coach.
Ok Coach.

Coverage Guy 1.
So is he gonna kick it to the 10 on the left or the right this time.

Coverage Guy 2.
Over under he is 10 yards or 20 yards off that spot and on the opposite side of the field.

Coverage Guy 3.
I'll take some of that....

Coverage Guy 4.
Probably won't have much hang time either..... ;D

Coverage guy 5.
Yeah screw it, we get paid the same whether we tackle him or not. I am going to close my eyes, run straight ahead, and act like I am invisible.


You might be right

Love coverage guy 5 addition.......
Well played my friend.
;D

gr8vike
12-16-2008, 07:55 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mostly it has to do with the fact that no other team in the recorded history of the league have managed to perform quite like this one has.

Maybe they are having the same debate on the field that we are having here-

Guy 1: Are you going to tackle that guy coming your way?

Guy 2: No, I don't like the hang time so I am going to run straight ahead with my eyes closed and act like I am invisible.

Guy 1: Sounds reasonable, count me in.

LOL,
Probably more along the lines of this........

ST Coach.
Look you jiggly butt, I told you the first 3 times were to kick it, not lets get it to that spot.

Kicker:
OK coach.
Ok Coach.

Coverage Guy 1.
So is he gonna kick it to the 10 on the left or the right this time.

Coverage Guy 2.
Over under he is 10 yards or 20 yards off that spot and on the opposite side of the field.

Coverage Guy 3.
I'll take some of that....

Coverage Guy 4.
Probably won't have much hang time either..... ;D

Coverage guy 5.
Yeah screw it, we get paid the same whether we tackle him or not. I am going to close my eyes, run straight ahead, and act like I am invisible.


You might be right

Love coverage guy 5 addition.......
Well played my friend.

;D


LMFAO... This is most likely a pretty accurate description of our special teams.

i_bleed_purple
12-16-2008, 10:15 AM
just a question...

If you blame our returns on the respective kickers/punters, then that must mean we have the worst kickers and punters in the history of the NFL right?
If its not the coverage guys fault, and its all on the kickers, then they must be a sorry bunch...

Marrdro
12-16-2008, 10:18 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


just a question...

If you blame our returns on the respective kickers/punters, then that must mean we have the worst kickers and punters in the history of the NFL right?
If its not the coverage guys fault, and its all on the kickers, then they must be a sorry bunch...



If your asking me...........

I don't just blame the kickers.
I blame the whole Special Teams unit (coaches included).
Again, it is called Special Teams for a reason and not Special Tacklers or Special Kickers.

They all have to be on the same page or it will be a ugly thing and if you were to revert back to the orginal post, one would see it has been ugly to a record number of times.

ejmat
12-16-2008, 11:15 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


just a question...

If you blame our returns on the respective kickers/punters, then that must mean we have the worst kickers and punters in the history of the NFL right?
If its not the coverage guys fault, and its all on the kickers, then they must be a sorry bunch...



If your asking me...........

I don't just blame the kickers.

I blame the whole Special Teams unit (coaches included).
Again, it is called Special Teams for a reason and not Special Tacklers or Special Kickers.

They all have to be on the same page or it will be a ugly thing and if you were to revert back to the orginal post, one would see it has been ugly to a record number of times.



I think what people continue to miss is the point in which it all STARTS with the Punters.
They have to do their job correctly in order for the rest of the STs to work well.
Not that they can't adjust becasue they can and that is why they shoulder part of the blame.
However, the the punter kicks line drives it makes it more difficult for the rest of the STs to do their jobs efficiently.
It gives the returner more room to return punts and find holes.
No one is giving a free pass to the rest of the STs.
However the play begins when the punter catches the ball from the long snapper.
Now if the snap is bad that is a different story but the punter should be able to give it hang time or kick directionally effectively since that is their ONLY job.
If they cannot do that effectively then it is time to re-evaluate that position.

marstc09
12-16-2008, 11:41 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


Yup that is what I saw and I had a great view. I guess it is just easier to blame the kicker because of the man love someone has for Dugan. Herrera helped block that guy. Dugan should have slowed up the outside guy more.


I don't have man love for Dugan.
Personally I could care less if he is on the team or not.
However, if you watch the replay Dugan was put into a bad situation.
It is very difficult to block someone and slow someone else down.
That situation was more of a coaching blunder as they were not lined up correctly against AZs line up.
The guy inside was not blocked unless Dugan blocked him.
Watch the play again.

I did many times in HD. He had help at the end by Herrera. He should have focused on the outside guy.

marstc09
12-16-2008, 11:43 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.

marstc09
12-16-2008, 11:45 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fricken terrible.
::)

I agree, however, it has alot to do with the kicker......Hang time/Distance/Spot are directly related to coverage my friend.


Again count the hang time between Longwell and other kickers and get back to me. You will be surprised. I am done trying to make you a believer like the rest until you do this.

marstc09
12-16-2008, 11:46 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mostly it has to do with the fact that no other team in the recorded history of the league have managed to perform quite like this one has.

Maybe they are having the same debate on the field that we are having here-

Guy 1: Are you going to tackle that guy coming your way?

Guy 2: No, I don't like the hang time so I am going to run straight ahead with my eyes closed and act like I am invisible.

Guy 1: Sounds reasonable, count me in.


LOL, right! That was funny.

marstc09
12-16-2008, 11:48 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Mostly it has to do with the fact that no other team in the recorded history of the league have managed to perform quite like this one has.

Maybe they are having the same debate on the field that we are having here-

Guy 1: Are you going to tackle that guy coming your way?

Guy 2: No, I don't like the hang time so I am going to run straight ahead with my eyes closed and act like I am invisible.

Guy 1: Sounds reasonable, count me in.

LOL,
Probably more along the lines of this........

ST Coach.
Look you ass, I told you the first 3 times were to kick it, not lets get it to that spot.

Kicker:
OK coach.
Ok Coach.

Coverage Guy 1.
So is he gonna kick it to the 10 on the left or the right this time.

Coverage Guy 2.
Over under he is 10 yards or 20 yards off that spot and on the opposite side of the field.

Coverage Guy 3.
I'll take some of that....

Coverage Guy 4.
Probably won't have much hang time either..... ;D


His average last game was to the 5 so that is incorrect.

ejmat
12-16-2008, 11:50 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?

marstc09
12-16-2008, 11:51 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


just a question...

If you blame our returns on the respective kickers/punters, then that must mean we have the worst kickers and punters in the history of the NFL right?
If its not the coverage guys fault, and its all on the kickers, then they must be a sorry bunch...



If your asking me...........

I don't just blame the kickers.

I blame the whole Special Teams unit (coaches included).
Again, it is called Special Teams for a reason and not Special Tacklers or Special Kickers.

They all have to be on the same page or it will be a ugly thing and if you were to revert back to the orginal post, one would see it has been ugly to a record number of times.



What do you call this?

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=49558.msg879286#msg879286

I have not read you mention anything else up until now.

marstc09
12-16-2008, 11:52 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.

ejmat
12-16-2008, 11:59 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:




And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.

marstc09
12-16-2008, 12:01 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:






And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.


So you think Kluwe has no hang time? You might want to count his and compare it to others. You will also be surprised.

Purple Floyd
12-16-2008, 12:16 PM
The thing you guys are missing in all of this is how Gus was really being proactive in limiting the number of punt return touchdowns the team has given up.

He understood that an interception that did not result in a touchdown was better for the team than a punt return that did. So rather than place the fate of the team in the hands(or more closely the foot) of the opposition, he took it upon himself to prevent that from happening by eliminating the middle man.

Marrdro
12-16-2008, 01:36 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


just a question...

If you blame our returns on the respective kickers/punters, then that must mean we have the worst kickers and punters in the history of the NFL right?
If its not the coverage guys fault, and its all on the kickers, then they must be a sorry bunch...



If your asking me...........

I don't just blame the kickers.

I blame the whole Special Teams unit (coaches included).
Again, it is called Special Teams for a reason and not Special Tacklers or Special Kickers.

They all have to be on the same page or it will be a ugly thing and if you were to revert back to the orginal post, one would see it has been ugly to a record number of times.



What do you call this?

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=49558.msg879286#msg879286

I have not read you mention anything else up until now.

A opening comment used to foster follow-on discussions and viewpoints...

marstc09
12-16-2008, 03:20 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


just a question...

If you blame our returns on the respective kickers/punters, then that must mean we have the worst kickers and punters in the history of the NFL right?
If its not the coverage guys fault, and its all on the kickers, then they must be a sorry bunch...



If your asking me...........

I don't just blame the kickers.

I blame the whole Special Teams unit (coaches included).
Again, it is called Special Teams for a reason and not Special Tacklers or Special Kickers.

They all have to be on the same page or it will be a ugly thing and if you were to revert back to the orginal post, one would see it has been ugly to a record number of times.



What do you call this?

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=49558.msg879286#msg879286

I have not read you mention anything else up until now.

A opening comment used to foster follow-on discussions and viewpoints...


LOL good one.

ejmat
12-16-2008, 06:18 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:








And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.


So you think Kluwe has no hang time? You might want to count his and compare it to others. You will also be surprised.


I am not going to go count Klewe's hangtime.
I can remember several punts that were line drives.
Several of those that ended up in an opponents TD.
Please try and debate that with me.
I beg you.
It is all about consistency and Klewe didn't have it early in the season.
He's been better as of late.
Oh wait, the STs have played a lot better.
Go figure!

Purple Floyd
12-17-2008, 07:32 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:










And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.


So you think Kluwe has no hang time? You might want to count his and compare it to others. You will also be surprised.


I am not going to go count Klewe's hangtime.
I can remember several punts that were line drives.
Several of those that ended up in an opponents TD.
Please try and debate that with me.
I beg you.
It is all about consistency and Klewe didn't have it early in the season.
He's been better as of late.
Oh wait, the STs have played a lot better.
Go figure!


The coverage has gotten better, but then again we haven't faced Reggie Bush lately so IMO the jury is still out. And we did give up a ST TD in the last game so I am not ready to proclaim the ST's units as fixed.
The tackling and blocking have been bigger problems than the kicking.

ejmat
12-17-2008, 07:55 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:












And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.


So you think Kluwe has no hang time? You might want to count his and compare it to others. You will also be surprised.


I am not going to go count Klewe's hangtime.
I can remember several punts that were line drives.
Several of those that ended up in an opponents TD.
Please try and debate that with me.
I beg you.
It is all about consistency and Klewe didn't have it early in the season.
He's been better as of late.
Oh wait, the STs have played a lot better.
Go figure!


The coverage has gotten better, but then again we haven't faced Reggie Bush lately so IMO the jury is still out. And we did give up a ST TD in the last game so I am not ready to proclaim the ST's units as fixed.
The tackling and blocking have been bigger problems than the kicking.


Not saying the ST
units are fixed either.
The ST TD given up last game was on a blocked FG attempt.
Most of the problems have been on kick-offs and punt coverage.
IMO the blocked FG was becasue of how we were lined up.
Dugan had the unfair task of taking on two rushers.
He took the one with the most direct route to the ball.
He did the right thing.
IMO the staff should have recognized this and maybe they did but didn't want to waste a TO on a FG attempt.
Who knows?
This is one of those unknowns that we will never know for sure where the blame lies.
It is very easy to blame Dugan because he was the one lined up there.
However when you watch the replay it seemed he had 2 rushers to take on.

marstc09
12-17-2008, 12:41 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:










And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.


So you think Kluwe has no hang time? You might want to count his and compare it to others. You will also be surprised.


I am not going to go count Klewe's hangtime.
I can remember several punts that were line drives.
Several of those that ended up in an opponents TD.
Please try and debate that with me.
I beg you.
It is all about consistency and Klewe didn't have it early in the season.
He's been better as of late.
Oh wait, the STs have played a lot better.
Go figure!


Talk to me when you actual count his hang time and compare it to others. I beg you.

ejmat
12-17-2008, 12:43 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:












And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.


So you think Kluwe has no hang time? You might want to count his and compare it to others. You will also be surprised.


I am not going to go count Klewe's hangtime.
I can remember several punts that were line drives.
Several of those that ended up in an opponents TD.
Please try and debate that with me.
I beg you.
It is all about consistency and Klewe didn't have it early in the season.
He's been better as of late.
Oh wait, the STs have played a lot better.
Go figure!


Talk to me when you actual count his hang time and compare it to others. I beg you.


Keep missing the point.
HE IS INCONSISTENT WITH HIS HANGTIME.
BECAUSE OF THAT OTHER TEAMS ARE SCORING TDS ON STS.

ejmat
12-17-2008, 12:45 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:












And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.


So you think Kluwe has no hang time? You might want to count his and compare it to others. You will also be surprised.


I am not going to go count Klewe's hangtime.
I can remember several punts that were line drives.
Several of those that ended up in an opponents TD.
Please try and debate that with me.
I beg you.
It is all about consistency and Klewe didn't have it early in the season.
He's been better as of late.
Oh wait, the STs have played a lot better.
Go figure!


Talk to me when you actual count his hang time and compare it to others. I beg you.


Keep missing the point.
HE IS INCONSISTENT WITH HIS HANGTIME.
Because of that it makes STs harder to cover.
When his hangtime is as consistent as any other punter in the league that means a dman thing then talk to me.

marstc09
12-17-2008, 12:45 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:














And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.


So you think Kluwe has no hang time? You might want to count his and compare it to others. You will also be surprised.


I am not going to go count Klewe's hangtime.
I can remember several punts that were line drives.
Several of those that ended up in an opponents TD.
Please try and debate that with me.
I beg you.
It is all about consistency and Klewe didn't have it early in the season.
He's been better as of late.
Oh wait, the STs have played a lot better.
Go figure!


Talk to me when you actual count his hang time and compare it to others. I beg you.


Keep missing the point.
HE IS INCONSISTENT WITH HIS HANGTIME.
BECAUSE OF THAT OTHER TEAMS ARE SCORING TDS ON STS.


Yeah I read your point. Obviously I don't agree. Like I said go count his hang time and see how inconsistent he is.

ejmat
12-17-2008, 12:48 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:
















And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


This has nothing to do with the Kicker. Coverage is fucking terrible.
::)


I agree with you however the punter does have something to do with it.
That is why you need a punter that has good hang time.
I could give a crap about kicking 50 or 60 yard punts.
I would rather have a 40 yard punt with plenty of hang time so there is no room for returns.
When you look at a punter the best stat you can look at is NET yardage not how far the punt went.
Like I said, I agree the coverage hasn't been all that great but punt coverage begins with the punter.
If he kick line drives it makes it more difficult to cover.


Count the hang time of Longwell and then Rackers and get back to me. You will be surprised.


Is Rackers punting now?


I and otheres have been talking kickers this whole time. You are the one that brought up Punters in this thread a couple posts back. Not sure what you are talking about.


Well let's talk about this then.
Our problems have not been so much the kick return game but the punt return game.
If you look back all facets of STs have been brought up whether by me or others.
They are all about STs.
Hence, the topic of this thread "Vikings' special teams sets NFL record".
They include punt coverage, kick-off coverage and yes blocked FG attempts.


In terms of the kick-off coverage I am not so worried about Longwell's kicks to the 5 or 10 yard line as it seems to work well with the STs since they are there to make the stop.
I would much rather have that then kick it on a line drive to the endzone and give a runner room to run.


So you think Kluwe has no hang time? You might want to count his and compare it to others. You will also be surprised.


I am not going to go count Klewe's hangtime.
I can remember several punts that were line drives.
Several of those that ended up in an opponents TD.
Please try and debate that with me.
I beg you.
It is all about consistency and Klewe didn't have it early in the season.
He's been better as of late.
Oh wait, the STs have played a lot better.
Go figure!


Talk to me when you actual count his hang time and compare it to others. I beg you.


Keep missing the point.
HE IS INCONSISTENT WITH HIS HANGTIME.
BECAUSE OF THAT OTHER TEAMS ARE SCORING TDS ON STS.


Yeah I read your point. Obviously I don't agree. Like I said go count his hang time and see how inconsistent he is.


I don't have to count that.
I can count how many points for the other team resulted in the inconsistencies.
Now name a player (a respected punter) to where he is more consistent than.
If you are so confident about it then you shouldn't have any problem finding a few.

marstc09
12-17-2008, 09:48 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


Yup that is what I saw and I had a great view. I guess it is just easier to blame the kicker because of the man love someone has for Dugan. Herrera helped block that guy. Dugan should have slowed up the outside guy more.


I don't have man love for Dugan.
Personally I could care less if he is on the team or not.
However, if you watch the replay Dugan was put into a bad situation.
It is very difficult to block someone and slow someone else down.
That situation was more of a coaching blunder as they were not lined up correctly against AZs line up.
The guy inside was not blocked unless Dugan blocked him.
Watch the play again.


Listen to Paul Allens podcast from the Monday show (Winfield/Montage segment). He said it was overloaded but from his understanding, which meant a coach probably told him this, Dugan was too close to the offensive line. The splits were too narrow.

ejmat
12-17-2008, 09:56 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


Yup that is what I saw and I had a great view. I guess it is just easier to blame the kicker because of the man love someone has for Dugan. Herrera helped block that guy. Dugan should have slowed up the outside guy more.


I don't have man love for Dugan.
Personally I could care less if he is on the team or not.
However, if you watch the replay Dugan was put into a bad situation.
It is very difficult to block someone and slow someone else down.
That situation was more of a coaching blunder as they were not lined up correctly against AZs line up.
The guy inside was not blocked unless Dugan blocked him.
Watch the play again.


Listen to Paul Allens podcast from the Monday show (Winfield/Montage segment). He said it was overloaded but from his understanding, which meant a coach probably told him this, Dugan was to close to the offensive line. The splits were too narrow.


Thanks for the input.
I looked at the replay and agree they were overloaded on the side that Dugan was on.
I would have to watch the replay again to see his positioning but that could be true.
Either way we were lined up wrong and most likely the coaching staff 1) noticed it and decided not to worry about it since it was only a FG and didn't want to waste a time out or 2) they screwed up and didn't notice it.
Dugan was put in a predicament he shouldn't have been in and the result was a TD the other way.

marstc09
12-17-2008, 09:58 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:




I think Longwell is kicking the kickoffs higher instead of further in an attempt to let our guys get down the field as they are catching the ball.
It doesn't give the returner a good chance to get going and remember there is no 2 feet rule unless the KR calls a fair catch.

As far as punts the team has improved allot over the past couple of weeks so let's hope they keep that up.

The blocked FGs are a concern both on the the blocking side and on Longwell.
Yesterday's blame is difficult to tell because Dugan had to choose between 2 people.
I would have probably chosen the one that was making the most direct route like Dugan did.
Cromartie just made a hell of a play to block that kick.
That also leads me to believe Longwell may have taken too long once the ball was snapped to make the kick.

Overall I am happy with Longwell so in this case you take the good with the bad.


Sorry but Dugan did not have to chose between too. He guessed wrong. The inside guy was blocked. Dugan let the wrong many go and tried to correct it at the last moment.
He may just need some reps.


Yup that is what I saw and I had a great view. I guess it is just easier to blame the kicker because of the man love someone has for Dugan. Herrera helped block that guy. Dugan should have slowed up the outside guy more.


I don't have man love for Dugan.
Personally I could care less if he is on the team or not.
However, if you watch the replay Dugan was put into a bad situation.
It is very difficult to block someone and slow someone else down.
That situation was more of a coaching blunder as they were not lined up correctly against AZs line up.
The guy inside was not blocked unless Dugan blocked him.
Watch the play again.


Listen to Paul Allens podcast from the Monday show (Winfield/Montage segment). He said it was overloaded but from his understanding, which meant a coach probably told him this, Dugan was to close to the offensive line. The splits were too narrow.


Thanks for the input.
I looked at the replay and agree they were overloaded on the side that Dugan was on.
I would have to watch the replay again to see his positioning but that could be true.
Either way we were lined up wrong and most likely the coaching staff 1) noticed it and decided not to worry about it since it was only a FG and didn't want to waste a time out or 2) they screwed up and didn't notice it.
Dugan was put in a predicament he shouldn't have been in and the result was a TD the other way.



I have to blame Longwell too. He should have caught the ball but he has butter fingers.

vikings4life33
12-18-2008, 01:05 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


I just question you about your lack of judgement on all topics.

hahaha burn

Marrdro
12-18-2008, 01:12 PM
"vikings4life33" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


I just question you about your lack of judgement on all topics.

hahaha burn
hahaha burn is the best you got?

How about saying you got him there prophet and then providing some ST's stuff to go with it?

Something, anything, hang time vs coverage time, gunners routes, setting up the wedge, anything...

hahaha burn.....yea right, gimme a break.
Go back to the other sites that do burns and gottchas my friend.

mountainviking
12-18-2008, 01:24 PM
D'OH!!!
Don't suppose anybody is still wondering if losing the likes of Heath Farwell, Boulware, K.Allen, Gordon, and Mitchell hurt our STs...?
;)

Marrdro
12-18-2008, 01:27 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:


D'OH!!!
Don't suppose anybody is still wondering if losing the likes of Heath Farwell, Boulware, K.Allen, Gordon, and Mitchell hurt our STs...?

;)

Quite trying to type sense my friend.

A few on here tried to make it out that we suck this year cause we lost Heath.
Although his loss is felt, it is still a team effort.
One guy shouldn't hurt us that bad.

As to your point, we seem to have alot of tacklers on this team and several guys have stepped up to fill the roles of the guys lost.

Does it hurt to loose that many?
Yes but not as much as shitty kicking does IMHO.
Hard to tackle a guy if the ball isn't kicked to the right spot.

Vikefanman2000
12-18-2008, 04:42 PM
"Special teams coordinator Paul Ferraro said the Vikings were misaligned at the line of scrimmage during a field goal attempt that the Cardinals blocked. “When you shorten the corner by alignment and then you don’t even touch him (rookie Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie), that’s an issue,” said Ferraro"

Gee.....you dont say?
I guess thats why Ferraro makes the big bucks!
Misalignment and not touching a kick blocker at all would have been on the bottom of my list of possible things that went wrong on that kick attempt.


Ferraro needs to get on the short bus and go away.....perhaps to one of the 31 teams in the NFL that have better special teams then we do!

SamOchoCinco
12-18-2008, 05:14 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


D'OH!!!
Don't suppose anybody is still wondering if losing the likes of Heath Farwell, Boulware, K.Allen, Gordon, and Mitchell hurt our STs...?

;)

Quite trying to type sense my friend.

A few on here tried to make it out that we suck this year cause we lost Heath.
Although his loss is felt, it is still a team effort.
One guy shouldn't hurt us that bad.

As to your point, we seem to have alot of tacklers on this team and several guys have stepped up to fill the roles of the guys lost.

Does it hurt to loose that many?
Yes but not as much as shitty kicking does IMHO.
Hard to tackle a guy if the ball isn't kicked to the right spot.


i do agree. one guy doesnt make a whole unit. although heath is a monster on ST. the ST needs to pick up without him. so most of the blame does lie with who we place on the field.

its about 90% our current players fault

and about 10% losing heath

Vikefanman2000
12-18-2008, 05:31 PM
"SamOchoCinco" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


D'OH!!!
Don't suppose anybody is still wondering if losing the likes of Heath Farwell, Boulware, K.Allen, Gordon, and Mitchell hurt our STs...?

;)

Quite trying to type sense My Sexy Little Pixie.

A few on here tried to make it out that we suck this year cause we lost Heath.
Although his loss is felt, it is still a team effort.
One guy shouldn't hurt us that bad.

As to your point, we seem to have alot of tacklers on this team and several guys have stepped up to fill the roles of the guys lost.

Does it hurt to loose that many?
Yes but not as much as poohie kicking does IMHO.
Hard to tackle a guy if the ball isn't kicked to the right spot.


i do agree. one guy doesnt make a whole unit. although heath is a monster on ST. the ST needs to pick up without him. so most of the blame does lie with who we place on the field.

its about 90% our current players fault

and about 10% losing heath


Personally, there are two areas that I always consider a direct reflection of coaching.....special teams play and penalties.

At the NFL level, I honestly believe that the skill level of the players on Specials Teams is almost identical for each unit in the league....yes, there are exceptions...ie HESTER...
but a team that is last or near last in overall special teams play is not being coached very well, imho.

Same with penalties....the coaching staffs that dont accept penalties from their players dont have as many....our team now has a culture of penalties being something to just live with.
BS....the game is hard enough without giving other teams unearned advantages!

V4L
12-18-2008, 05:38 PM
"Vikefanman2000" wrote:


"SamOchoCinco" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:


D'OH!!!
Don't suppose anybody is still wondering if losing the likes of Heath Farwell, Boulware, K.Allen, Gordon, and Mitchell hurt our STs...?

;)

Quite trying to type sense My Sexy Little Pixie.

A few on here tried to make it out that we suck this year cause we lost Heath.
Although his loss is felt, it is still a team effort.
One guy shouldn't hurt us that bad.

As to your point, we seem to have alot of tacklers on this team and several guys have stepped up to fill the roles of the guys lost.

Does it hurt to loose that many?
Yes but not as much as poohie kicking does IMHO.
Hard to tackle a guy if the ball isn't kicked to the right spot.


i do agree. one guy doesnt make a whole unit. although heath is a monster on ST. the ST needs to pick up without him. so most of the blame does lie with who we place on the field.

its about 90% our current players fault

and about 10% losing heath


Personally, there are two areas that I always consider a direct reflection of coaching.....special teams play and penalties.

At the NFL level, I honestly believe that the skill level of the players on Specials Teams is almost identical for each unit in the league....yes, there are exceptions...ie HESTER...
but a team that is last or near last in overall special teams play is not being coached very well, imho.

Same with penalties....the coaching staffs that dont accept penalties from their players dont have as many....our team now has a culture of penalties being something to just live with.
BS....the game is hard enough without giving other teams unearned advantages!



didn't Heath lead the league in S.T tackles?

I think he is the biggest defensive S.T player in the league

I didn't think losing him was a huge lose til I seen our coverage this year

marstc09
12-18-2008, 05:40 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikings4life33" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


And people question me about my lack of confidence in our kickers...... ::)


I just question you about your lack of judgement on all topics.

hahaha burn
hahaha burn is the best you got?

How about saying you got him there prophet and then providing some ST's stuff to go with it?

Something, anything, hang time vs coverage time, gunners routes, setting up the wedge, anything...

hahaha burn.....yea right, gimme a break.

Go back to the other sites that do burns and gottchas my friend.


Don't worry about it Marr. It is not worth your time.

marstc09
12-18-2008, 05:42 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:


D'OH!!!
Don't suppose anybody is still wondering if losing the likes of Heath Farwell, Boulware, K.Allen, Gordon, and Mitchell hurt our STs...?

;)


No people just want to blame LONGwell. They can't see anything else.

marstc09
12-18-2008, 05:46 PM
"Special teams coordinator Paul Ferraro said the Vikings were misaligned at the line of scrimmage during a field goal attempt that the Cardinals blocked. “When you shorten the corner by alignment and then you don’t even touch him (rookie Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie), that’s an issue,” said Ferraro"


LOL ejmat and Marrdro fought with me on this. I guess ole mars was right. The coaches are just as much to blame as Dugan is. They should have seen it and called a timeout.

ejmat
12-18-2008, 06:20 PM
"marstc09" wrote:



"Special teams coordinator Paul Ferraro said the Vikings were misaligned at the line of scrimmage during a field goal attempt that the Cardinals blocked. “When you shorten the corner by alignment and then you don’t even touch him (rookie Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie), that’s an issue,” said Ferraro"


LOL ejmat and Marrdro fought with me on this. I guess ole mars was right. The coaches are just as much to blame as Dugan is. They should have seen it and called a timeout.


LOL Marstc.
I still think Dugan did what he was supposed to do in this situation.
He was lined up against 2 players and he took on the one that had a more direct route to the ball.
Anyway, it really doesn't matter at this time.

Regarding your post:

D'OH!!!
Don't suppose anybody is still wondering if losing the likes of Heath Farwell, Boulware, K.Allen, Gordon, and Mitchell hurt our STs...?




No people just want to blame LONGwell. They can't see anything else.

I have never really blamed Longwell for anything personally.
I have however blamed Klewe for his lack of hangtime and misdirected punts.
Longwell wouldn't have anything to do with missing players like farwell, Bouolwarem etc...
I think Longwell has done a pretty good job not only with FGs but with kickoffs too.
I know he doesn't bang a lot in the endzone but he kicks it high enough to allow his team get down to cover.

Marrdro
12-25-2008, 04:21 PM
"marstc09" wrote:



"Special teams coordinator Paul Ferraro said the Vikings were misaligned at the line of scrimmage during a field goal attempt that the Cardinals blocked. “When you shorten the corner by alignment and then you don’t even touch him (rookie Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie), that’s an issue,” said Ferraro"


LOL ejmat and Marrdro fought with me on this. I guess ole mars was right. The coaches are just as much to blame as Dugan is. They should have seen it and called a timeout.

You need to go back and re-read my posts.
I didn't blame Dugan.
All I said was that they overloaded the side and Dugan had two to block.

Hey, by the way, I been calling for the ST's job for quite some time now.

Seems ole Marrs was right.... :P

Marrdro
12-25-2008, 04:23 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


LOL Marstc.
I still think Dugan did what he was supposed to do in this situation.
He was lined up against 2 players and he took on the one that had a more direct route to the ball.



Funny how he missed that in both of our posts......

ejmat
12-26-2008, 09:00 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


LOL Marstc.
I still think Dugan did what he was supposed to do in this situation.
He was lined up against 2 players and he took on the one that had a more direct route to the ball.



Funny how he missed that in both of our posts......


It happens.
Sometimes when I miss a little time and have to catch up on your reading I tend to miss a post or two.
But yeah, no excuses Marstc!
;D