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singersp
11-26-2008, 06:09 AM
Vikings Insider: Interceptions? Not this year (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/34902839.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUT)

The Vikings' pass rush and pass defense are better, but pickoffs are down, and no one seems to know exactly why.

By JUDD ZULGAD, Star Tribune

Last update: November 22, 2008 - 9:12 PM

Marrdro
11-26-2008, 09:43 AM
Sacks and INT's.........Isn't there more to the game than those two stats?
::) ;D

Yfz01
11-26-2008, 03:25 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Sacks and INT's.........Isn't there more to the game than those two stats?

::) ;D


Did anyone say that?
::)

kevoncox
11-26-2008, 03:32 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Sacks and INT's.........Isn't there more to the game than those two stats?

::) ;D


Seems to be all you looked at when talk about Peppers Marr...His sacks from last season...Btw How is he doign this season?
:P

V4L
11-26-2008, 03:36 PM
Picks are fun to watch

But if we win and don't get a pick im totally okay with that

kevoncox
11-26-2008, 03:40 PM
"V4L" wrote:


Picks are fun to watch

But if we win and don't get a pick im totally okay with that


Picks typically lead to wins
I'll like both.

V4L
11-26-2008, 03:44 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


Picks are fun to watch

But if we win and don't get a pick im totally okay with that


Picks typically lead to wins
I'll like both.



Obviously

I said IF we win.. I wouldn't care if there was a pick in the mix there or not

marstc09
11-26-2008, 03:46 PM
Through 10 games, the Vikings have six interceptions. That's 24th in the NFL, and consider this: The Packers have six interception returns for touchdowns.

I have been preaching all year that we need to press more like Green Bay. We have the guys to play this type of pass D. Although it does not work against all teams. Green Bay needed to give up the press and play more like us vs the Saints.

marstc09
11-26-2008, 03:51 PM
The Tampa 2 defense seems to be outdated. I think many offenses have found the holes in the defense and are simply exploiting it, i.e. quick slants, 3 step drops. Defensive schemes are all out confusing the offense and catching them off guard therefore forcing them into turnovers. When the offense knows how to handle a defense before it snaps the ball the scheme is moot. Just like the Wildcat Offense being phased into the league this year the Tampa 2 should be phased out.

This was in the comment section and I tend to agree but think it should be used in the right situation.

jmcdon00
11-26-2008, 03:56 PM
"marstc09" wrote:



Through 10 games, the Vikings have six interceptions. That's 24th in the NFL, and consider this: The Packers have six interception returns for touchdowns.

I have been preaching all year that we need to press more like Green Bay. We have the guys to play this type of pass D. Although it does not work against all teams. Green Bay needed to give up the press and play more like us vs the Saints.

The Packers do have 17int's to our 8 but they also have 2 fumbles recovered compared to our 12. I think part of the reason we get more fumbles is because we keep the reciever in front and the defender gets a chance to see the ball and try to strip it more often than if they were playing man.

marstc09
11-26-2008, 04:02 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:



Through 10 games, the Vikings have six interceptions. That's 24th in the NFL, and consider this: The Packers have six interception returns for touchdowns.

I have been preaching all year that we need to press more like Green Bay. We have the guys to play this type of pass D. Although it does not work against all teams. Green Bay needed to give up the press and play more like us vs the Saints.

The Packers do have 17int's to our 8 but they also have 2 fumbles recovered compared to our 12. I think part of the reason we get more fumbles is because we keep the reciever in front and the defender gets a chance to see the ball and try to strip it more often than if they were playing man.



I thought must of those fumbles where from our line and ST. I am going to look for that stat.

midgensa
11-26-2008, 04:22 PM
I have been trouble by our lack of picks a little, but not too much. I think overall we are doing much better on pass defense and if the picks come so be it, but if not, we will be fine.
We force fumbles and get turnovers fairly effectively (which is good since the offense loves giving them right back) and I think in the long run the picks will come.

marstc09
11-26-2008, 04:27 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:



Through 10 games, the Vikings have six interceptions. That's 24th in the NFL, and consider this: The Packers have six interception returns for touchdowns.

I have been preaching all year that we need to press more like Green Bay. We have the guys to play this type of pass D. Although it does not work against all teams. Green Bay needed to give up the press and play more like us vs the Saints.

The Packers do have 17int's to our 8 but they also have 2 fumbles recovered compared to our 12. I think part of the reason we get more fumbles is because we keep the reciever in front and the defender gets a chance to see the ball and try to strip it more often than if they were playing man.



I thought must of those fumbles where from our line and ST. I am going to look for that stat.


I was right. Only 3 have come from passes. 4 from sacks. 2 from bad snaps. 2 from runs. 1 from STs.

acman1
11-26-2008, 04:32 PM
Theres really only one reason: Cedric Griffin.
My least favorite viking finally got benched last week, I'm just hoping Griffin is next.
Get Sapp or McCauley our there, I don't care which.

jmcdon00
11-26-2008, 04:40 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:



Through 10 games, the Vikings have six interceptions. That's 24th in the NFL, and consider this: The Packers have six interception returns for touchdowns.

I have been preaching all year that we need to press more like Green Bay. We have the guys to play this type of pass D. Although it does not work against all teams. Green Bay needed to give up the press and play more like us vs the Saints.

The Packers do have 17int's to our 8 but they also have 2 fumbles recovered compared to our 12. I think part of the reason we get more fumbles is because we keep the reciever in front and the defender gets a chance to see the ball and try to strip it more often than if they were playing man.



I thought must of those fumbles where from our line and ST. I am going to look for that stat.


I was right. Only 3 have come from passes. 4 from sacks. 2 from bad snaps. 2 from runs. 1 from STs.

Still 3 is more than the entire Packers team. Not sure what the play calls were(or who recovered them) but Griffin leads the team with 4 fumbles forced, followed by Greenway and Winfield with 3 each. I'm not disagreeing with you that they should play more man to man, they should, just pointing out that the Packers are not all that.
In 2007 the vikings had 6 int's for TD's with essentially the same scheme and personel they have this year.

marstc09
11-26-2008, 08:15 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:



Through 10 games, the Vikings have six interceptions. That's 24th in the NFL, and consider this: The Packers have six interception returns for touchdowns.

I have been preaching all year that we need to press more like Green Bay. We have the guys to play this type of pass D. Although it does not work against all teams. Green Bay needed to give up the press and play more like us vs the Saints.

The Packers do have 17int's to our 8 but they also have 2 fumbles recovered compared to our 12. I think part of the reason we get more fumbles is because we keep the reciever in front and the defender gets a chance to see the ball and try to strip it more often than if they were playing man.



I thought must of those fumbles where from our line and ST. I am going to look for that stat.


I was right. Only 3 have come from passes. 4 from sacks. 2 from bad snaps. 2 from runs. 1 from STs.

Still 3 is more than the entire Packers team. Not sure what the play calls were(or who recovered them) but Griffin leads the team with 4 fumbles forced, followed by Greenway and Winfield with 3 each. I'm not disagreeing with you that they should play more man to man, they should, just pointing out that the Packers are not all that.
In 2007 the vikings had 6 int's for TD's with essentially the same scheme and personel they have this year.


Actually I was wrong. It was only 2 from passes. 4 from sacks. 3 from bad snaps. 2 from runs. 1 from STs. The list is below. Those 6 INTs returned last year came from 2 by KW, 1 by Greenway, 1 by Smith (no longer here), Sharper, and Winfield. Again the secondary is not really involved in those just like the fumbles. Which makes me wonder how much has adding Allen helped. Is it Cedric? Was Smith that good? Is Sharper losing it? Point is we need a shutdown corner/playmaker along side Winfield. I think Cedric would be better as a nickel. Pressing will help as well. Our DL is much better than Green Bays yet they have more INTs (17 compared to eight), more TDs (15 to 9), less points per game (23.6 to 22.4), and less passing yards per game (189.2 to 228.5).

17-J.Delhomme FUMBLES (Aborted) at MIN 48, RECOVERED by MIN-51-B.Leber at MIN 48. 51-B.Leber to MIN 48 for no gain (Team).

17-J.Delhomme sacked at CAR 21 for -8 yards (26-A.Winfield). FUMBLES (26-A.Winfield) [26-A.Winfield], RECOVERED by MIN-26-A.Winfield at CAR 19. 26-A.Winfield for 19 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

5-K.Collins Aborted. 68-K.Mawae FUMBLES at TEN 37, RECOVERED by MIN-56-E. J. Henderson at TEN 41. 56-E. J. Henderson to TEN 41 for no gain (73-J.Scott).

9-D.Brees sacked at NO 14 for -10 yards (26-A.Winfield). FUMBLES (26-A.Winfield), RECOVERED by MIN-26-A.Winfield at NO 14. 26-A.Winfield to NO 5 for 9 yards (77-C.Nicks).

25-R.Bush right end to MIN 34 for 1 yard (52-C.Greenway). FUMBLES (52-C.Greenway), RECOVERED by MIN-25-T.Johnson at MIN 32. 25-T.Johnson to MIN 39 for 7 yards. 25-T.Johnson pass incomplete short left. PENALTY on MIN-25-T.Johnson, Illegal Forward Pass, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 39.

6-D.Orlovsky pass deep middle to 81-C.Johnson to MIN 30 for 32 yards [91-R.Edwards]. FUMBLES [91-R.Edwards], RECOVERED by MIN-51-B.Leber at MIN 30. 51-B.Leber to MIN 40 for 10 yards.

18-K.Orton sacked at CHI 43 for -6 yards (69-J.Allen). FUMBLES (69-J.Allen), RECOVERED by MIN-94-P.Williams at CHI 45. 94-P.Williams to CHI 45 for no gain (18-K.Orton, 76-J.Tait).

8-M.Schaub sacked at MIN 44 for -9 yards (52-C.Greenway). FUMBLES (52-C.Greenway), RECOVERED by MIN-51-B.Leber at MIN 44. 51-B.Leber to MIN 44 for no gain (73-E.Winston).

22-C.Smith left end to MIN 28 for 2 yards (23-C.Griffin). FUMBLES (23-C.Griffin), touched at MIN 28, RECOVERED by MIN-51-B.Leber at MIN 28. 51-B.Leber to MIN 28 for no gain (65-J.Trueblood).

9-D.Garrard Aborted. 63-B.Meester FUMBLES at JAC 27, RECOVERED by MIN-99-N.Harris at JAC 27. 99-N.Harris for 27 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

8-R.Longwell kicks 62 yards from MIN 30 to JAC 8. 38-B.Witherspoon to JAC 28 for 20 yards (23-C.Griffin). FUMBLES (23-C.Griffin), RECOVERED by MIN-55-D.Thomas at JAC 28. 55-D.Thomas to JAC 28 for no gain (78-T.Reyes).

9-D.Garrard pass short right to 18-M.Jones to JAC 33 for 12 yards (26-A.Winfield) [91-R.Edwards]. FUMBLES (26-A.Winfield) [91-R.Edwards], RECOVERED by MIN-42-D.Sharper at JAC 38. 42-D.Sharper to JAC 38 for no gain (33-G.Jones).

kspurplepride
11-26-2008, 08:36 PM
This team is top 2 or 3 in forced fumbles... turnovers are turnovers no matter how you get them.

singersp
11-28-2008, 11:07 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:



Through 10 games, the Vikings have six interceptions. That's 24th in the NFL, and consider this: The Packers have six interception returns for touchdowns.

I have been preaching all year that we need to press more like Green Bay. We have the guys to play this type of pass D. Although it does not work against all teams. Green Bay needed to give up the press and play more like us vs the Saints.

The Packers do have 17int's to our 8 but they also have 2 fumbles recovered compared to our 12. I think part of the reason we get more fumbles is because we keep the reciever in front and the defender gets a chance to see the ball and try to strip it more often than if they were playing man.



I thought must of those fumbles where from our line and ST. I am going to look for that stat.


I was right. Only 3 have come from passes. 4 from sacks. 2 from bad snaps. 2 from runs. 1 from STs.


Look under "Defense & Fumbles"

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/2008.htm


Antoine Winfield
2
Darren Sharper
1

Ben Leber
4
Pat Williams
1
E.J. Henderson
1
Tyrell Johnson
1
Napoleon Harris
1
Vinny Ciurciu
1

Yfz01
11-28-2008, 11:43 AM
Arent we first in fumbles forced?
Interceptions are nice, and we got a few last week - we will still face Culpepper and a rookie QB in the dome.
We will do okay by the end of the year, i'm sure.

singersp
11-28-2008, 01:23 PM
Forced fumbles don't mean shit. Recovered fumbles do. With that said, we are in 2nd place with 12 recovered fumbles & in 23rd place with interceptions.

Whether it's interceptions or fumbles doesn't matter. Turnovers, no matter where they come from, are key & we need to stay ahead of the take away/giveaway game to win games.

Amazingly we were able to win at least 1 game when we were in the minus column on take aways/giveaways.

Currently, we have 20 take aways, but have given away the ball 22 times leaving us with a -2 turnover ratio.

We are only +3 on fumble recoveries & -5 on interceptions.

Based on that, it's easy to see why we are 6-5.

SamOchoCinco
11-28-2008, 01:32 PM
how are we not getting many picks?

we have a better overall defence. yet our star saftey and the rest apart from winfield havent picked anything.

singersp
11-28-2008, 01:38 PM
"SamOchoCinco" wrote:


how are we not getting many picks?

we have a better overall defence. yet our star saftey and the rest apart from winfield havent picked anything.


???

Antoine Winfield
2
Madieu Williams
2
Ben Leber
1
Tyrell Johnson
1
Charles Gordon
1
Benny Sapp
1

V-Unit
11-28-2008, 01:50 PM
It is very puzzling. Typically the added pressrue we have been able to acheive would result in hurried throws and thus more picks.

At the same time, we have not been pressing as much in an effort to take away the deep threat. Sure we don't have that many picks, but we also have not given up many big plays in the passing game.

Finally, a lot of picks happen when you're team is working with big leads and the other team is forced to throw aggressively. We have not been able to establish those kinds of leads often. When we have gotten big leads, we have the picks to show for it.

In any event, I think criticizing a D that has played as well as ours is a reach. We are a top 10 defense. The run D has stayed the course, and the pass D has gotten much better. We are 19th in points against, but that includes the excessive glut of ST and TO TDs, not to mention the bad positions that our ST and offense have put our defense in.

thevikingfan
11-28-2008, 03:09 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Sacks and INT's.........Isn't there more to the game than those two stats?

::) ;D


Sure we have only 8 interceptions but let me say this.Our int have all come against good qb's peyton manning 2 int drew brees 2 int david garrardd 2 int sage rosenfells/matt schaub.
Secondly even though we have few interception we make up for it byleading the nfl in forced fumbles,cedric griffin alone has 4 forced fumbles this season

singersp
11-28-2008, 03:37 PM
"thevikingfan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Sacks and INT's.........Isn't there more to the game than those two stats?

::) ;D


Sure we have only 8 interceptions but let me say this.Our int have all come against good qb's peyton manning 2 int drew brees 2 int david garrardd 2 int sage rosenfells/matt schaub.
Secondly even though we have few interception we make up for it byleading the nfl in forced fumbles,cedric griffin alone has 4 forced fumbles this season


We make up for it in fumbles........sure, but at the end of the day we are still -2 in the giveaway/takeaway dept. That's only good enough for a 21st ranking in the league.

Sure it's nice to sit back & say we are 1st in forced fumbles & 2nd in fumble recoveries, but when you turn around & give it right back to your opponents more than you are taking it away, it's a moot point.

Only 6 teams have lost more fumbled balls than the Vikings.
Only 6 teams have thrown more interceptions than the Vikings.
Only 7 teams have gotten fewer interceptions than the Vikings.

marstc09
11-28-2008, 07:52 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:



Through 10 games, the Vikings have six interceptions. That's 24th in the NFL, and consider this: The Packers have six interception returns for touchdowns.

I have been preaching all year that we need to press more like Green Bay. We have the guys to play this type of pass D. Although it does not work against all teams. Green Bay needed to give up the press and play more like us vs the Saints.

The Packers do have 17int's to our 8 but they also have 2 fumbles recovered compared to our 12. I think part of the reason we get more fumbles is because we keep the reciever in front and the defender gets a chance to see the ball and try to strip it more often than if they were playing man.



I thought must of those fumbles where from our line and ST. I am going to look for that stat.


I was right. Only 3 have come from passes. 4 from sacks. 2 from bad snaps. 2 from runs. 1 from STs.


Look under "Defense & Fumbles"

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/2008.htm


Antoine Winfield
2
Darren Sharper
1


Ben Leber
4
Pat Williams
1
E.J. Henderson
1
Tyrell Johnson
1
Napoleon Harris
1
Vinny Ciurciu
1



4 INTs from the secondary is not very good. I was expecting more with the addition of Allen. I think it might have a lot to do with the cover 2 but I am no expert. Like I said before I really would like to press and think Cedric and Antoine are perfect for it. All 17 of Green Bays INTs have come from their secondary and their DL is not as good as ours. In addition, Green Bay has 14 fumble recoveries.

Marrdro
11-30-2008, 11:38 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:





Through 10 games, the Vikings have six interceptions. That's 24th in the NFL, and consider this: The Packers have six interception returns for touchdowns.

I have been preaching all year that we need to press more like Green Bay. We have the guys to play this type of pass D. Although it does not work against all teams. Green Bay needed to give up the press and play more like us vs the Saints.

The Packers do have 17int's to our 8 but they also have 2 fumbles recovered compared to our 12. I think part of the reason we get more fumbles is because we keep the reciever in front and the defender gets a chance to see the ball and try to strip it more often than if they were playing man.



I thought must of those fumbles where from our line and ST. I am going to look for that stat.


I was right. Only 3 have come from passes. 4 from sacks. 2 from bad snaps. 2 from runs. 1 from STs.


Look under "Defense & Fumbles"

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/2008.htm


Antoine Winfield
2
Darren Sharper
1


Ben Leber
4
Pat Williams
1
E.J. Henderson
1
Tyrell Johnson
1
Napoleon Harris
1
Vinny Ciurciu
1



4 INTs from the secondary is not very good. I was expecting more with the addition of Allen. I think it might have a lot to do with the cover 2 but I am no expert. Like I said before I really would like to press and think Cedric and Antoine are perfect for it. All 17 of Green Bays INTs have come from their secondary and their DL is not as good as ours. In addition, Green Bay has 14 fumble recoveries.

The offense has alot to do with it as well.

Last week our DL really didn't do much until the lead got big enough to were the opposing offense had to pass in an effort to catch up.


Then and only then did our D "Pin thier ears back" and pressure the QB the way I believe this defense should do throughout the game.

Long story short, even though I think our defense hasn't been as good as the stats and most of you think, our offense should bare some of the burden as well.