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nolafan33
10-07-2008, 12:11 AM
first off, good game vikings fans...if i wasn't a saints fan this would have been a incredible game too watch.

but too start, i feel the saints gave this one away, and most should agree.

the saints outplayed the vikings in almost every aspect: passing, running, defense, special teams.
too many dropped balls, penalties, turnovers and such.
the refs were terrible, just horrible.
it got too the point where i couldn't watch anymore.
if hochuli and his staff ever call a meaningful game again i will really question the nfl...

plays that i think changed the game:
1) the 3rd and 10 play during the saints second drive, meachem drops the open pass.
meachem would have made that catch 9 outta 10 times.
if he makes that catch i feel the saints win rather handily.
that was game changing.

3) 3rd and 5- winfield gets the sack, drew fumbles the football.
ain't got much to say about this one, where was the blocking?!

3) the facemask play- this was just terrible, would reggie have fumbled if the vikings didn't commit the facemask?
nobody really knows, personally i don't think greenway gets too reggie without grabbing on to the mask.
but as i said, this was the worst call of the night.
anyone who isn't blind could have seen it!

4) the leber interception, moore hasn't dropped a pass all year.
this one really suprised me, once again, if he catches the ball or just lets it drop the saints probably win.

5) 3rd and 1, peterson fumbles.
how is that not a fumble?
petersons knee had never hit the ground and the ball was coming loose.
whatever the frick hochuli said was ridiculous.
the guy has become a joke, sure it was close.
but clearly was a fumble.

6) obviously the gramatica miss, nothing too say about this one.
hopefully he is nolonger a saint come tomorrow.

7) the three throws at the end of the game, all desperation throws by frerotte.
there was a little luck on the vikings side, but the saints could have played a little better d.
porter going out was huge.

so there it is, what sticks out too me.
the saints did a great job taking imo the best running back in the nfl out of the game.
the way the saints lost tonight was kinda the way yall have lost recently, just alot worse.

V4L
10-07-2008, 12:16 AM
VIKES WIN!!

baumy300
10-07-2008, 12:20 AM
Yeah, I'll admit that some of the game was given away, but you can't take away credit from Winfield for his performance. He flat out deserved everything tonight.

Winfield had probably the best defensive performance I've seen this year in the NFL.

nolafan33
10-07-2008, 12:29 AM
"baumy300" wrote:


Yeah, I'll admit that some of the game was given away, but you can't take away credit from Winfield for his performance. He flat out deserved everything tonight.

Winfield had probably the best defensive performance I've seen this year in the NFL.


that i agree with you, winfield was amazing tonight.

Mr Anderson
10-07-2008, 12:35 AM
You guys gave us the game.

Thank you.



But we know how it is, we've given away more than our fair share of games over the years.

hav0x
10-07-2008, 01:15 AM
"nolafan33" wrote:


first off, good game vikings fans...if i wasn't a saints fan this would have been a incredible game too watch.
but too start, i feel the saints gave this one away, and most should agree.They screwed up on a few plays but the saints don't cause themselves to fumble, it was all on the defense that caused them.


the saints outplayed the vikings in almost every aspect: passing, running, defense, special teams.
too many dropped balls, penalties, turnovers and such.Honestly the only thing that matters is the win. And IMO we made plays when we needed to, I consider that outplaying.


the refs were terrible, just horrible.
it got too the point where i couldn't watch anymore.
if hochuli and his staff ever call a meaningful game again i will really question the nfl...I only saw 1 bad no-call and that was the facemask. The peterson fumble is arguable but they need to be able to clearly see that it was a fumble to overturn the ruling, and it wasn't clear.


plays that i think changed the game:
1) the 3rd and 10 play during the saints second drive, meachem drops the open pass.
meachem would have made that catch 9 outta 10 times.
if he makes that catch i feel the saints win rather handily.
that was game changing.Welcome to the world of dropped passes, we see it every week.


3) 3rd and 5- winfield gets the sack, drew fumbles the football.
ain't got much to say about this one, where was the blocking?! Great play by winfield.


3) the facemask play- this was just terrible, would reggie have fumbled if the vikings didn't commit the facemask?
nobody really knows, personally i don't think greenway gets too reggie without grabbing on to the mask.
but as i said, this was the worst call of the night.
anyone who isn't blind could have seen it!Bad call but it happens sometimes, we got screwed last week on a 4th down when the runner was clearly down before the marker and they gave him a first which led to a TD. They even reviewed it and ruled it a first down.


4) the leber interception, moore hasn't dropped a pass all year.
this one really suprised me, once again, if he catches the ball or just lets it drop the saints probably win.If's don't matter in the nfl. Would you have won if he caught it? Nobody knows.


5) 3rd and 1, peterson fumbles.
how is that not a fumble?
petersons knee had never hit the ground and the ball was coming loose.
whatever the frick hochuli said was ridiculous.
the guy has become a joke, sure it was close.
but clearly was a fumble.He still had a grip on the ball with his hand when his knee hit. It was ruled down by contact, it wasn't clear enough to overturn.


6) obviously the gramatica miss, nothing too say about this one.
hopefully he is nolonger a saint come tomorrow.Yeah, you guys need a new kicker.


7) the three throws at the end of the game, all desperation throws by frerotte.
there was a little luck on the vikings side, but the saints could have played a little better d.
porter going out was huge.That long TD to berrian was all skill on Berrians part, he said that he saw the ball in the air and blew his route to adjust to it.


so there it is, what sticks out too me.
the saints did a great job taking imo the best running back in the nfl out of the game.
the way the saints lost tonight was kinda the way yall have lost recently, just alot worse.Yeah you guys did a good job stuffing peterson, I don't know why chilly didn't run behind BM and Hutch more, makes no sense.

ThorSPL
10-07-2008, 08:53 AM
"nolafan33" wrote:


first off, good game vikings fans...if i wasn't a saints fan this would have been a incredible game too watch.

but too start, i feel the saints gave this one away, and most should agree.

the saints outplayed the vikings in almost every aspect: passing, running, defense, special teams.
too many dropped balls, penalties, turnovers and such.
the refs were terrible, just horrible.
it got too the point where i couldn't watch anymore.
if hochuli and his staff ever call a meaningful game again i will really question the nfl...

plays that i think changed the game:
1) the 3rd and 10 play during the saints second drive, meachem drops the open pass.
meachem would have made that catch 9 outta 10 times.
if he makes that catch i feel the saints win rather handily.
that was game changing.
Sounds like what the Vikes deal with most weeks... but I feel your pain

2) 3rd and 5- winfield gets the sack, drew fumbles the football.
ain't got much to say about this one, where was the blocking?!
He's a hell of a player; been under-rated a long time

3) the facemask play- this was just terrible, would reggie have fumbled if the vikings didn't commit the facemask?
nobody really knows, personally i don't think greenway gets too reggie without grabbing on to the mask.
but as i said, this was the worst call of the night.
anyone who isn't blind could have seen it!
Agreed - horrid call... I rarely say we get the best of the officiating, but we did last night.
I do think they tried to make up for it (no call on an intentional grounding) - but that doesn't make up for it...

4) the leber interception, moore hasn't dropped a pass all year.
this one really suprised me, once again, if he catches the ball or just lets it drop the saints probably win.
Again, the Vikes usually have plays like that happen to them....

5) 3rd and 1, peterson fumbles.
how is that not a fumble?
petersons knee had never hit the ground and the ball was coming loose.
whatever the frick hochuli said was ridiculous.
the guy has become a joke, sure it was close.
but clearly was a fumble.
Hochuli does know the rules - if he went to the trouble of explaining it that well - it was probably the legit call.
The ball seemed loose but it was hard to say it was "out".
To me, that call just was not going to be overturned - not enough evidence to change any call.
On a side note - WHAT a hit.

6) obviously the gramatica miss, nothing too say about this one.
hopefully he is nolonger a saint come tomorrow.
Geriatric kickers... we've had plenty in our day

7) the three throws at the end of the game, all desperation throws by frerotte.
there was a little luck on the vikings side, but the saints could have played a little better d.
porter going out was huge.
True

so there it is, what sticks out too me.
the saints did a great job taking imo the best running back in the nfl out of the game.
the way the saints lost tonight was kinda the way yall have lost recently, just alot worse.


Yeah, hopefully we can continue to throw the ball becasue there was NO running against that D scheme.

SIUviking
10-07-2008, 09:29 AM
I am a little confused on the facemask call. Obviously it was a blow facemask call. However, I am unclear on the rule here. If they throw the flag does that mean that the fumble never occurred? Does a facemask negate anything that happens in the play after that?

Just wasn't sure what the call would have been if they had caught it.

Other than that blown call I thought the Saints were just playing dumb and committing dumb penalties. The Peterson fumble could go either way.

Json
10-07-2008, 09:39 AM
Didn't the league get rid of the 5 yard face mask penalty this year?
Not to say that the face mask is or isn't a 15 yarder that greenway did but if they are no longer calling small face mask penalties wouldn't that be the reason why it might not have been called?
Or am I mistaken and if the face mask is pulled even a little bit it's suppose to be a 15 yard penalty?
I know they changed the rule but I'm a little unclear on the exact rule change.

ultravikingfan
10-07-2008, 09:42 AM
"Json" wrote:


Didn't the league get rid of the 5 yard face mask penalty this year?
Not to say that the face mask is or isn't a 15 yarder that greenway did but if they are no longer calling small face mask penalties wouldn't that be the reason why it might not have been called?
Or am I mistaken and if the face mask is pulled even a little bit it's suppose to be a 15 yard penalty?
I know they changed the rule but I'm a little unclear on the exact rule change.



Yes.
No more 5 yd penalty in the NFL and College.

C Mac D
10-07-2008, 09:48 AM
"nolafan33" wrote:


5) 3rd and 1, peterson fumbles.
how is that not a fumble?
petersons knee had never hit the ground and the ball was coming loose.
whatever the frick hochuli said was ridiculous.
the guy has become a joke, sure it was close.
but clearly was a fumble.


Wasn't even close to being a fumble when you watch it on the replay. He is still palming the ball when his knee is down... therefor he has control... he was down by contact... no fumble.


Now I realize how we sound after a loss... geesh...

mblack76
10-07-2008, 10:01 AM
"C" wrote:


"nolafan33" wrote:


5) 3rd and 1, peterson fumbles.
how is that not a fumble?
petersons knee had never hit the ground and the ball was coming loose.
whatever the frick hochuli said was ridiculous.
the guy has become a joke, sure it was close.
but clearly was a fumble.


Wasn't even close to being a fumble when you watch it on the replay. He is still palming the ball when his knee is down... therefor he has control... he was down by contact... no fumble.


Now I realize how we sound after a loss... geesh...

You are one funny dude

ItalianStallion
10-07-2008, 10:05 AM
New Orleans definitely tried to lose that game, but at times it looked like we did too (our kick punt coverage was about as bad as is possible).
Our defense, while porous, was opportunistic (which is what it needs to be in order for us to win games).

The only really blown call was the Greenway facemask, which we were fortunate to not have called.
Peterson had the ball in his hand when his knee the ground, and it came loose after.
Just because it wasn't tight against his body, it doesn't mean he fumbled it.

Absolute roller coaster of a game (in the bad way), but I'll take a win over a loss any day.

As they say, it's better to be bad and lucky, than good and unlucky.

BloodyHorns82
10-07-2008, 10:22 AM
All I have to say is that I know exactly how every Saint's fan feels this morning.
(blown calls, blown plays, ripped off, shoulda-coulda won, etc.)

It feels damn good to be on the other side of things for once.

Json
10-07-2008, 10:36 AM
Didn't the league get rid of the 5 yard face mask penalty this year?
Not to say that the face mask is or isn't a 15 yarder that greenway did but if they are no longer calling small face mask penalties wouldn't that be the reason why it might not have been called?
Or am I mistaken and if the face mask is pulled even a little bit it's suppose to be a 15 yard penalty?
I know they changed the rule but I'm a little unclear on the exact rule change.

Yes.
No more 5 yd penalty in the NFL and College.

So does a small pull on the face mask warrant an automatic 15 yarder or is it at the discretion of the refs?

Zeus
10-07-2008, 10:55 AM
"Json" wrote:



Didn't the league get rid of the 5 yard face mask penalty this year?
Not to say that the face mask is or isn't a 15 yarder that greenway did but if they are no longer calling small face mask penalties wouldn't that be the reason why it might not have been called?
Or am I mistaken and if the face mask is pulled even a little bit it's suppose to be a 15 yard penalty?
I know they changed the rule but I'm a little unclear on the exact rule change.

Yes.
No more 5 yd penalty in the NFL and College.

So does a small pull on the face mask warrant an automatic 15 yarder or is it at the discretion of the refs?



My understanding is that any grab and pull is now 15.
Even if you release.
My assumption about last night is that the ref just didn't see it.

=Z=

josdin00
10-07-2008, 10:58 AM
"Json" wrote:



Didn't the league get rid of the 5 yard face mask penalty this year?
Not to say that the face mask is or isn't a 15 yarder that greenway did but if they are no longer calling small face mask penalties wouldn't that be the reason why it might not have been called?
Or am I mistaken and if the face mask is pulled even a little bit it's suppose to be a 15 yard penalty?
I know they changed the rule but I'm a little unclear on the exact rule change.

Yes.
No more 5 yd penalty in the NFL and College.

So does a small pull on the face mask warrant an automatic 15 yarder or is it at the discretion of the refs?



If someone grabs the facemask and turns the head of the other player, then it is a 15 yard facemask. If someone grabs the facemask, but lets go without turning the head or helmet, there is no penalty.

PurplePeopleEaters
10-07-2008, 11:08 AM
"Json" wrote:


Didn't the league get rid of the 5 yard face mask penalty this year?
Not to say that the face mask is or isn't a 15 yarder that greenway did but if they are no longer calling small face mask penalties wouldn't that be the reason why it might not have been called?
Or am I mistaken and if the face mask is pulled even a little bit it's suppose to be a 15 yard penalty?
I know they changed the rule but I'm a little unclear on the exact rule change.



You're correct but it doesn't change anything. It was still a grab and pull by Greenway. He almost pulled Bush's whole helmet off.

BloodyHorns82
10-07-2008, 11:31 AM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"Json" wrote:


Didn't the league get rid of the 5 yard face mask penalty this year?
Not to say that the face mask is or isn't a 15 yarder that greenway did but if they are no longer calling small face mask penalties wouldn't that be the reason why it might not have been called?
Or am I mistaken and if the face mask is pulled even a little bit it's suppose to be a 15 yard penalty?
I know they changed the rule but I'm a little unclear on the exact rule change.



You're correct but it doesn't change anything. It was still a grab and pull by Greenway. He almost pulled Bush's whole helmet off.


It was a missed call by the refs.
If I was N.O. I would be pissed off too.


Being a Vikings fan and having sat through that type of B.S. 6 times already this season, I loved it.

jargomcfargo
10-07-2008, 12:12 PM
I'm sorry. I didn't see any face mask penalty. It was a clean hit.
Well, maybe not.
We've had our share of non calls this year so we know how you feel.
You have a pretty good team and will do well once you get healthy.
I've never liked Hockuli and his crew.

Zeus
10-07-2008, 12:13 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


I'm sorry. I didn't see any face mask penalty. It was a clean hit.
Well, maybe not.
We've had our share of non calls this year so we know how you feel.
You have a pretty good team and will do well once you get healthy.
I've never liked Hockuli and his crew.


Ed flexes his bicep before every first-down signal.

=Z=

nailhead77
10-07-2008, 01:49 PM
Like everyone else here, i feel no pity for the saints.
We have suffered some bad losses and everyone just says "we need to learn how to win".
blah blah blah..........who gives a shit.
Refs miss calls all the time.
Holding, interference, facemasks, ect.
If reggie holds on to the ball it wouldnt have mattered.
You couldnt count all the holding calls, that are called on the wrong guy or when reviewed are not holding at all and those calls cost touchdowns.
Refs cant see everything.



Vikes WIN.............and i dont care how.

jorgie
10-07-2008, 02:02 PM
That "game" did nothing to enhance Chilli's qualifications. There is a bad effort by one group or another in every game and the others are just a bit above lousy.

Face it, Childress couldn't coach pee Wees.

Prophet
10-07-2008, 02:03 PM
There is no such thing as a fair weather Saints fan, they have had no weather that can be deemed fair in the history of their franchise.

purplepat
10-07-2008, 02:09 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted that the Vikings won.
The refs and replay officials have stolen enough plays and games from the Vikings this year and in recent memory that it's about time that a few blown calls went the Vikings way.
That said...

The lack of a flag on the Bush fumble was a huge turning point in the game.
Give the Saints the ball back and 15 yards to boot, and they are scoring 3 for sure and maybe 7, which could have turned a 17-10 Vikings lead into maybe a 17-17 tie.

I'm also not buying that Peterson had control of the ball when his knee hit the ground.
It's a bang-bang play, and Peterson's grip strength is already the stuff of legend, but if he had that good of a grip on the ball it doesn't come out by virtue of his knee hitting the ground.
So I'd say he'd lost control of the ball and it should have been called a fumble and awarded to the Saints.
Instead of the Saints getting the ball around midfield, Vikes finish the drive with a Longwell FG to go up 20-10.

Now granted, there was at least one play, maybe two, where I thought Brees could and should have been called for intentional grounding and he wasn't, so we can argue what effect those blown calls might have had on the game (but I don't think the Saints scored on any of those drives).
And certainly, kudos to the Vikings for perservering and fighting back after giving up 17 unanswered points and a 10 point lead to pull it out at the end.
But if the refs don't cheat the Saints on those two plays, the outcome might have been far, far different.
The Vikings were good when it counted, but they were lucky too.