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Purple Floyd
10-08-2008, 12:41 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.



In 2006 Bush had one punt return for a TD.
In 2007 he had zero
This year before he played us he had one for a grand total of 2 for his career.

It isn't like punting to bush is a sure fire way to yield a TD on special teams.

Like I said and will say again. I doubt he directed the punt to be out of bounds on the first one. Bush should have had one more if he didn't trip himself. The reason is not because we punted the ball in bounds but because our coverage sucked and has sucked all year as has our kick coverage.

Yes, punting out of bounds would have kept him from returning the kicks but so would good coverage and good tackling.

PurplePeopleEaters
10-08-2008, 12:41 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.


obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.


I agree wholeheartedly with that but you have to change your gameplan under the circumstances that arise in-game.

I don't feel confident in our Special Team's unit stopping any players like Bush, Desean Jackson, or Devin Hester. We had better not kick the ball in-bounds to Hester once.

ejmat
10-08-2008, 12:43 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.


obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.


I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
However, every return except for one was a long return.
Therefore you kick it OOB.
Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
He was told to do it.
At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
It was evident in the Saints game.

Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
Plain and simple.
It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
He didn't do so and it back-fired.

i_bleed_purple
10-08-2008, 12:44 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:




For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.


obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.


I agree wholeheartedly with that but you have to change your gameplan under the circumstances that arise in-game.

I don't feel confident in our Special Team's unit stopping any players like Bush, Desean Jackson, or Devin Hester. We had better not kick the ball in-bounds to Hester once.


I agree, but the point is that our coverage needs to be addressed and fixed NOW,

Purple Floyd
10-08-2008, 01:38 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:




For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.


obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.


I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
However, every return except for one was a long return.
Therefore you kick it OOB.
Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
He was told to do it.
At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
It was evident in the Saints game.

Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
Plain and simple.
It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
He didn't do so and it back-fired.


I am not making the argument that he should not kick out of bounds. If he was told to and didn't then obviously that is a problem.

What I am saying is giving up 2 td's to bush is not his problem. It is a problem of a shitty ST unit.

Bush has never had 2 TD's in a season in his career let alone one game and he really should have had 3 against us. The reason for that is not because we are the only team punting the ball in bounds in the league, it is because we are perhaps the worst in the league on St coverage.


If anybody can produce stats to me that every team the saints have faced always punt out of bounds and we were the only ones to punt to him then I will ceded the point. Until then we just need to be in the right place and tackle the return guy.

Hell, it's not like other teams have that problem against us.

Purple Floyd
10-08-2008, 01:40 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:




For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.


obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.


I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
However, every return except for one was a long return.
Therefore you kick it OOB.
Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
He was told to do it.
At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
It was evident in the Saints game.

Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
Plain and simple.
It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
He didn't do so and it back-fired.


I am not making the argument that he should not kick out of bounds. If he was told to and didn't then obviously that is a problem.

What I am saying is giving up 2 td's to bush is not his problem. It is a problem of a shitty ST unit.

Bush has never had 2 TD's in a season in his career let alone one game and he really should have had 3 against us. The reason for that is not because we are the only team punting the ball in bounds in the league, it is because we are perhaps the worst in the league on St coverage.


If anybody can produce stats to me that every team the saints have faced always punt out of bounds and we were the only ones to punt to him then I will ceded the point. Until then we just need to be in the right place and tackle the return guy.

Hell, it's not like other teams have that problem against us.

ejmat
10-08-2008, 01:43 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:






For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.


obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.


I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
However, every return except for one was a long return.
Therefore you kick it OOB.
Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
He was told to do it.
At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
It was evident in the Saints game.

Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
Plain and simple.
It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
He didn't do so and it back-fired.


I am not making the argument that he should not kick out of bounds. If he was told to and didn't then obviously that is a problem.

What I am saying is giving up 2 td's to bush is not his problem. It is a problem of a shitty ST unit.

Bush has never had 2 TD's in a season in his career let alone one game and he really should have had 3 against us. The reason for that is not because we are the only team punting the ball in bounds in the league, it is because we are perhaps the worst in the league on St coverage.


If anybody can produce stats to me that every team the saints have faced always punt out of bounds and we were the only ones to punt to him then I will ceded the point. Until then we just need to be in the right place and tackle the return guy.

Hell, it's not like other teams have that problem against us.


I agree that our ST unit is terrible.
That is probably why Childress told him to kick the ball OOB.
I also agree this entire blame doesn't get put on Klewe's shoulders because all players should be ready for just about anything.
However, it does mess the coverage when the ball isn't kicked where everyone is thinking it's supposed to go.
The bottom line here is if Klewe does what he is supposed to do this conversation wouldn't be happening.
It doesn't mean he is totally to blame but he is to blame for a large part of it.

purplehelmut
10-08-2008, 02:15 PM
Well I can guarantee you we have a method of denying Hestor any punt return TDs......go for it on every fourth down.
Not a guarantee, but if our offense didn't have to punt we wouldn't give up a return TD either.
Hmmmm....how likely is that?

Bkfldviking
10-08-2008, 02:18 PM
"purplehelmut" wrote:


Well I can guarantee you we have a method of denying Hestor any punt return TDs......go for it on every fourth down.
Not a guarantee, but if our offense didn't have to punt we wouldn't give up a return TD either.
Hmmmm....how likely is that?


According to TMQ most teams in the NFL who go for it on 4th and short are 72% successful.
You are assuming of course that the HC has a massive set of cajones.
We will probably punt.

PurplePackerEater
10-08-2008, 02:58 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

Finally, thank you.

V4L
10-08-2008, 02:59 PM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

Finally, thank you.



He tried and couldnt

Thats why he is taking heat

PurplePackerEater
10-08-2008, 03:35 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"PurplePackerEater" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

Finally, thank you.



He tried and couldnt

Thats why he is taking heat


The problem starts with the entire Special Teams unit. ALL game long, even when bush wasn't returning kicks, the Special Teams were giving up HUGE yardage. The Saints started in great field position all game. That is not only a Kluwe problem, it's the scheme or something as well.

Bottom line, it's a team sport and the entire special teams sucked Monday night...so to call out one player is ridiculous.

ragz
10-08-2008, 05:39 PM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"PurplePackerEater" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

Finally, thank you.



He tried and couldnt

Thats why he is taking heat


The problem starts with the entire Special Teams unit. ALL game long, even when bush wasn't returning kicks, the Special Teams were giving up HUGE yardage. The Saints started in great field position all game. That is not only a Kluwe problem, it's the scheme or something as well.

Bottom line, it's a team sport and the entire special teams sucked Monday night...so to call out one player is ridiculous.


ya, there was a good article on viking update talking about how kluwe getting such heat was a little bit ridiculous.
i mean he deserves part of the blame, but said he still angled all 3 kicks to the sidelines and bush was able to go all the way to the other side of the field on 2 returns, and then went right up the sideline on the other one.
the coverage was obviously just as bad as anything we did.
but with kluwe, it wasn't exactly like he kicked the balls in the middle of the field and bush had to jsut find a seem.

and how do we fix this?
i know they mentioned putting some starters in on coverage and maybe that will help some, but how many can you put on special teams?
if you add 2 starters is that enough to make up for the other 8 guys not covering well?
or is this just a matter of ferrara being terrible?
i'm not really sure what can be done.

ejmat
10-09-2008, 08:18 AM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"PurplePackerEater" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

Finally, thank you.



He tried and couldnt

Thats why he is taking heat


The problem starts with the entire Special Teams unit. ALL game long, even when bush wasn't returning kicks, the Special Teams were giving up HUGE yardage. The Saints started in great field position all game. That is not only a Kluwe problem, it's the scheme or something as well.

Bottom line, it's a team sport and the entire special teams sucked Monday night...so to call out one player is ridiculous.



No!
The problem STARTS with Klewe ineffectively kicking the ball OOB when told to do so.
The ST coverage comes after that.
Don't get me wrong.
I think the STs have played terrible.
However, Klewe's ineffectiveness on directional punting and sometimes line driving a kick is a major problem as well.
If a punt has hang time it doesn't allow much room for a returner.
If you watch all of Bush's runs he had plenty of room.
Is that becasue we have slow cover teams?
No.
It is becasue they are low kicks.
Then look at the punt in which Griffith was able to tackle the returner right away.
That is becasue the punt had plenty of hang time.
It all starts with the punter my friends.

Suick
10-09-2008, 11:02 AM
I am of the opinion if you can't punt it OOB inside the 20, then you punt the ball as far as you can, man-up and tackle his a$$.

StillPurple
10-09-2008, 12:51 PM
What I saw on one of those R.Bush TD returns was a lot of guys in purple, jogging downfield and then looking at each other like "you are going to tackle him, right?", instead of running downfield and trying to make the play themselves. That obviously needs to end. If you can't be aggressive on coverage, sit down on the bench.

Del Rio
10-09-2008, 12:56 PM
"Suick" wrote:


I am of the opinion if you can't punt it OOB inside the 20, then you punt the ball as far as you can, man-up and tackle his a$$.


I agree completely. Put on your big boy pants and play the game.

Its a wedge bust it. Fooking pansies.

V-Unit
10-09-2008, 01:32 PM
"Del" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


I am of the opinion if you can't punt it OOB inside the 20, then you punt the ball as far as you can, man-up and tackle his a$$.


I agree completely. Put on your big boy pants and play the game.

Its a wedge bust it. Fooking pansies.


Wedges don't exist on punt returns...

Purple Floyd
10-09-2008, 04:06 PM
They gave up a 62 yard kick return on the opening kickoff. I suppose we should be kicking off out of bounds too and just giving them the ball on the 35,45 or whatever the spot is when the ball is kicked OOB.

jargomcfargo
10-09-2008, 04:09 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


They gave up a 62 yard kick return on the opening kickoff. I suppose we should be kicking off out of bounds too and just giving them the ball on the 35,45 or whatever the spot is when the ball is kicked OOB.


Why not? It ends up there most of the time anyway. It would save all that running around we have to watch before the next beer commercial.

idahovikefan7
10-09-2008, 04:11 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


They gave up a 62 yard kick return on the opening kickoff. I suppose we should be kicking off out of bounds too and just giving them the ball on the 35,45 or whatever the spot is when the ball is kicked OOB.


I was thinking the same...Our coverage teams suck all around...How about we do some tackling drills, they seem scared to make a tackle....

CCthebest
10-09-2008, 07:30 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"PurplePackerEater" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"PurplePackerEater" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

Finally, thank you.



He tried and couldnt

Thats why he is taking heat


The problem starts with the entire Special Teams unit. ALL game long, even when bush wasn't returning kicks, the Special Teams were giving up HUGE yardage. The Saints started in great field position all game. That is not only a Kluwe problem, it's the scheme or something as well.

Bottom line, it's a team sport and the entire special teams sucked Monday night...so to call out one player is ridiculous.



No!
The problem STARTS with Klewe ineffectively kicking the ball OOB when told to do so.
The ST coverage comes after that.
Don't get me wrong.
I think the STs have played terrible.
However, Klewe's ineffectiveness on directional punting and sometimes line driving a kick is a major problem as well.
If a punt has hang time it doesn't allow much room for a returner.
If you watch all of Bush's runs he had plenty of room.
Is that becasue we have slow cover teams?
No.
It is becasue they are low kicks.
Then look at the punt in which Griffith was able to tackle the returner right away.
That is becasue the punt had plenty of hang time.
It all starts with the punter my friends.


So Klewe is responsible for kick off coverage too eh? And the fact we rarely have a good punt or kick return eh? Out ENTIRE St is a joke. Maybe if we had someone with a leg kicking off we could cover.

Suick
10-10-2008, 06:24 AM
Didn't Tice put Winfield on the ST a couple of years ago because of the poor tackling?

ejmat
10-10-2008, 07:03 AM
"CCthebest" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"PurplePackerEater" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"PurplePackerEater" wrote:




For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

Finally, thank you.



He tried and couldnt

Thats why he is taking heat


The problem starts with the entire Special Teams unit. ALL game long, even when bush wasn't returning kicks, the Special Teams were giving up HUGE yardage. The Saints started in great field position all game. That is not only a Kluwe problem, it's the scheme or something as well.

Bottom line, it's a team sport and the entire special teams sucked Monday night...so to call out one player is ridiculous.



No!
The problem STARTS with Klewe ineffectively kicking the ball OOB when told to do so.
The ST coverage comes after that.
Don't get me wrong.
I think the STs have played terrible.
However, Klewe's ineffectiveness on directional punting and sometimes line driving a kick is a major problem as well.
If a punt has hang time it doesn't allow much room for a returner.
If you watch all of Bush's runs he had plenty of room.
Is that becasue we have slow cover teams?
No.
It is becasue they are low kicks.
Then look at the punt in which Griffith was able to tackle the returner right away.
That is becasue the punt had plenty of hang time.
It all starts with the punter my friends.


So Klewe is responsible for kick off coverage too eh? And the fact we rarely have a good punt or kick return eh? Out ENTIRE St is a joke. Maybe if we had someone with a leg kicking off we could cover.


Did you read my post?
I didn't say he was responsible for people not tackling.
Read my quote that I bolded above.
That doesn't excuse a professional punter not being able to kick the ball effectively.
That is where the play starts, EH!!!!!!!!!!!
I do agree the entire STs are a joke right now.
But you can't get rid the entire team.
By the way, some of the starters such as Winfield and Griffin play STs just so you know.


Read my entire post before you try and diss me my friend.

Purple Floyd
09-16-2010, 06:44 AM
UffDaVikes wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:




For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.


obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.


I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
However, every return except for one was a long return.
Therefore you kick it OOB.
Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
He was told to do it.
At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
It was evident in the Saints game.

Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
Plain and simple.
It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
He didn't do so and it back-fired.


I am not making the argument that he should not kick out of bounds. If he was told to and didn't then obviously that is a problem.

What I am saying is giving up 2 td's to bush is not his problem. It is a problem of a shitty ST unit.

Bush has never had 2 TD's in a season in his career let alone one game and he really should have had 3 against us. The reason for that is not because we are the only team punting the ball in bounds in the league, it is because we are perhaps the worst in the league on St coverage.


If anybody can produce stats to me that every team the saints have faced always punt out of bounds and we were the only ones to punt to him then I will ceded the point. Until then we just need to be in the right place and tackle the return guy.

Hell, it's not like other teams have that problem against us.

This guy knew what he was talking about. Now all of a sudden we have guys who are tackling and the punter is magically looking better.

Marrdro
09-16-2010, 07:54 AM
Purple Floyd wrote:

UffDaVikes wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:




For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.


obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.


I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
However, every return except for one was a long return.
Therefore you kick it OOB.
Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
He was told to do it.
At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
It was evident in the Saints game.

Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
Plain and simple.
It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
He didn't do so and it back-fired.


I am not making the argument that he should not kick out of bounds. If he was told to and didn't then obviously that is a problem.

What I am saying is giving up 2 td's to bush is not his problem. It is a problem of a shitty ST unit.

Bush has never had 2 TD's in a season in his career let alone one game and he really should have had 3 against us. The reason for that is not because we are the only team punting the ball in bounds in the league, it is because we are perhaps the worst in the league on St coverage.


If anybody can produce stats to me that every team the saints have faced always punt out of bounds and we were the only ones to punt to him then I will ceded the point. Until then we just need to be in the right place and tackle the return guy.

Hell, it's not like other teams have that problem against us.

This guy knew what he was talking about. Now all of a sudden we have guys who are tackling and the punter is magically looking better.
You do realize that we had starting CB's, S's and LB'rs on those coverage teams. Are you saying they can't tackle?

WOW.

Quick question for ya.......Do you think the coverage team has time to look up in the air and watch the ball in flight to see were it is gonna land, or do you think the ST's coord calls the spot for the ball prior to the kick?

Believe it or not, the ST's coord calls for the spot, the coverage team fights through thier blockers to get to that spot which doesn't allow for them to watch the flight of the ball.

Because our old ST's coord didn't call the plays that way (yup, ST's calls plays), the coverage teams, in almost every instance was running to a spot that the ball wasn't at.

Long story short, the reason our coverage teams look better is because they are functioning as a unit, and it all starts with the direction and distance of the punt.

12purplepride28
09-16-2010, 06:08 PM
At least we're not bringing up 2 year old topics. ;)

Purple Floyd
09-16-2010, 07:25 PM
Marrdro wrote:

Purple Floyd wrote:

UffDaVikes wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:




For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.



Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt


Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.



So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.


obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.


I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
However, every return except for one was a long return.
Therefore you kick it OOB.
Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
He was told to do it.
At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
It was evident in the Saints game.

Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
Plain and simple.
It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
He didn't do so and it back-fired.


I am not making the argument that he should not kick out of bounds. If he was told to and didn't then obviously that is a problem.

What I am saying is giving up 2 td's to bush is not his problem. It is a problem of a shitty ST unit.

Bush has never had 2 TD's in a season in his career let alone one game and he really should have had 3 against us. The reason for that is not because we are the only team punting the ball in bounds in the league, it is because we are perhaps the worst in the league on St coverage.


If anybody can produce stats to me that every team the saints have faced always punt out of bounds and we were the only ones to punt to him then I will ceded the point. Until then we just need to be in the right place and tackle the return guy.

Hell, it's not like other teams have that problem against us.

This guy knew what he was talking about. Now all of a sudden we have guys who are tackling and the punter is magically looking better.
You do realize that we had starting CB's, S's and LB'rs on those coverage teams. Are you saying they can't tackle?

WOW.

Quick question for ya.......Do you think the coverage team has time to look up in the air and watch the ball in flight to see were it is gonna land, or do you think the ST's coord calls the spot for the ball prior to the kick?

Believe it or not, the ST's coord calls for the spot, the coverage team fights through thier blockers to get to that spot which doesn't allow for them to watch the flight of the ball.

Because our old ST's coord didn't call the plays that way (yup, ST's calls plays), the coverage teams, in almost every instance was running to a spot that the ball wasn't at.

Long story short, the reason our coverage teams look better is because they are functioning as a unit, and it all starts with the direction and distance of the punt.

Yes, we had a few but for the love of god the whole ST unit was not made up of the starting unit. But I am sure you hoped that that one would slip by lol. It didn't.

The rest of it was just the typical marr smoke screen. Bottom line is Kluwe then and now are the same person. What has changed is the coaching and the personnel that are doing the tackling.