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Mark_The_Viking
09-16-2008, 06:48 AM
Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments

HEY
09-16-2008, 07:30 AM
You are right! It was a tough catch, but the big problem is that it's far from the first time he dropped an important catch. He seems to buckle under great pressure and everytime we need him the most he bails on us. He's kinda like Troy Williamsson, makes all the catches in training camp, but when it's gametime, he fails.

As a fan, I'm getting really tired of it!

NordicNed
09-16-2008, 07:37 AM
To begin with, not a great pass, it was more on his hip.
Shanko did almost get it into his gut and controll it, but that was followed by a very hard landing and the arm and part of the ball hitting the turf. This knocked the ball loss, much like a catch and then a defender hitting the ball dead on with his helmet. That would be a called
a fumble, where as what happened to shank was the hard landing and turf knocked it lose. Conclusion for me, it was a very tough pass to catch and turn into a reception. Possible ?
Yes.
Supprised it got knocked lose, not at all.
Shanco had a good game overall I thought. I wouldn't put the loss on his shoulders at all.

Mjölnir
09-16-2008, 07:43 AM
I just wonder whether TJack's shaken confidence passes on to his receivers.

Now I'm a very weak catcher, it's not my speciality to say the least. But even if you are a good catcher... you have to be able to trust your QB to put the ball right on the money. You run your route, you find some space, you turn towards the ball at the last second... as a receiver you have to trust that when you make that turn that ball will be right on you, or at least be catchable.

So in this respect, I don't think it's TJack's throws missing a mile wide that are the biggest problem with regards to the mental status of the receivers. It's his inconsistency... it's those balls that drop just beyond the gloves when the team are trying for a big play. If the receivers are out running their routes and they have any doubt about TJack's ability to put the ball on them, they'll come out less intense and may even start missing the ones that are catchable

Note: I'm not making excuses for receivers missing catches, if you get a shot it's up to you to take it. But I'm just pointing out that the receivers and QB play as a unit, the mental status/play ability of one will be affecting the mental status/play ability of the other.

Marrdro
09-16-2008, 08:05 AM
Not trying to pick on anyone here but I have seen alot of fans say they are tired of things like Shanc dropping balls.

I get that your tired of it but just for curiousity sake, what are you gonna do about it?

Maybe I should start a poll or something. ::)

Purple Floyd
09-16-2008, 08:13 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Not trying to pick on anyone here but I have seen alot of fans say they are tired of things like Shanc dropping balls.

I get that your tired of it but just for curiousity sake, what are you gonna do about it?

Maybe I should start a poll or something. ::)


Well, for many on here, they will just post their feelings to let off steam until the next game.

The bad part for the ownership is that the marginal fans- The ones they count on to fill the seats that we do not have enough hardcore fans to fill- may decide it isn't worth spending the 100- 500 dollars it takes to go to a game, pay for gas, parking, a meal and concessions while there.

I didn't check but I believe not every home game has sold out yet so there is certainly something at stake for the ownership and also for the people who depend on fans coming to the game to keep their businesses profitable and to put money on the table. So to answer your question, the quiet ones who do not complain will probably stay home and not spend their money on the team. If you feel the team can afford to not have those fans, then tell them to go away. ;)

NordicNed
09-16-2008, 08:15 AM
"Mjölnir" wrote:


I just wonder whether TJack's shaken confidence passes on to his receivers.

Now I'm a very weak catcher, it's not my speciality to say the least. But even if you are a good catcher... you have to be able to trust your QB to put the ball right on the money. You run your route, you find some space, you turn towards the ball at the last second... as a receiver you have to trust that when you make that turn that ball will be right on you, or at least be catchable.

So in this respect, I don't think it's TJack's throws missing a mile wide that are the biggest problem with regards to the mental status of the receivers. It's his inconsistency... it's those balls that drop just beyond the gloves when the team are trying for a big play. If the receivers are out running their routes and they have any doubt about TJack's ability to put the ball on them, they'll come out less intense and may even start missing the ones that are catchable

Note: I'm not making excuses for receivers missing catches, if you get a shot it's up to you to take it. But I'm just pointing out that the receivers and QB play as a unit, the mental status/play ability of one will be affecting the mental status/play ability of the other.



WoW,
thats a very good post and theory.
I wasn't thinking that way, but your theory does hold alot of water.
I'll agree with you 100% there.
;)


And Marr,
not everyone is putting Shanco down, I'm not for sure.
Fact is, I like Shanco's play, and he shows alot of potential and has made a good number of solid catches so far.
I was saying more about the fact that the pass wasn't the best to begin with, and it was a tough grab and completion to make for most recievers or TE's..

ejmat
09-16-2008, 08:18 AM
In watching that play the ball was very catchable.
Seeing where the defender was I thought TJ put it in the only place he could have for Shiancoe to make the reception.
Granted it wasn't the easiest catch but it was more than catchable.
Remember this guy gets paid a lot of money to make these catches.
Sorry but you won't find any empathy for Shiancoe from me at this point.
The guy has dropped passes left and right.
I think Mills is a better pass catcher and blocker from what I have seen thus far.

AngloVike
09-16-2008, 08:23 AM
It's a fair question and to be fair to Shiancoe it may not have been one of the easiest balls to catch. Coming when it did if he'd made the catch we'd have got a TD and also TJ's confidence would have been a lot higher. Having said that you can't pin the loss on Shiancoe.
The problem a lot of people have with him is that he was brought in on a huge contract and was touted as part of Childress's KAO. However when he needs to make a clutch reception then more often than not he is found wanting. That's the biggest downer on the guy and we can see someone like Mills on the sideline who has better hands having to watch.
Bottom line is if you're paid big bucks then you'd best come up with the goods, unfortunately Shiancoe doesn't manage to do that.

ejmat
09-16-2008, 08:25 AM
"AngloVike" wrote:


It's a fair question and to be fair to Shiancoe it may not have been one of the easiest balls to catch. Coming when it did if he'd made the catch we'd have got a TD and also TJ's confidence would have been a lot higher. Having said that you can't pin the loss on Shiancoe.
The problem a lot of people have with him is that he was brought in on a huge contract and was touted as part of Childress's KAO. However when he needs to make a clutch reception then more often than not he is found wanting. That's the biggest downer on the guy and we can see someone like Mills on the sideline who has better hands having to watch.
Bottom line is if you're paid big bucks then you'd best come up with the goods, unfortunately Shiancoe doesn't manage to do that.


Exactly!
Good post Anglo.
That is where I was coming from too.

Mjölnir
09-16-2008, 08:27 AM
True, the receivers have dropped catchable balls, but a receiver has to be fired up to make the catches. To have that desire to want to make the catches. Now obviously us fans think that the huge money these guys get paid should be incentive enough... but the fact is, it's not. English Football (Soccer to you across the pond) is the same... lots of people getting paid truckloads of cash who just don't step up and perform. A professional athlete needs something more. In soccer, it's an inspirational manager or a great tactician on the sidelines... for receivers in the NFL, it has to be an accurate and, more importantly I feel, a charismatic QB.

I saw TJack in a post game interview. He seemed dazed and slightly cowed by it all. Now put yourself in the boots of a receiver. If you're running out there in the backfield, and you know this is the guy you have behind Centre (or more realistically, this is the guy who has rolled out right), it's going to knock your confidence. And that, I think, affects your catching ability.

Like I said, no excuses. But this is a team game... one affects the other.

BBQ Platypus
09-16-2008, 09:19 AM
Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.

thevikingfan
09-16-2008, 10:08 AM
sure it was a tough catch but he drop passes on a consistent basis,in his 2nd year now and i recall him droppng at least 4 sure td's in the endzone already not to mention all the routine passes that have been dropped.so far this year he has drops in both games one of wich should have been a td

tb04512
09-16-2008, 10:13 AM
the ball was IN in arms, there is no reason he shouldnt hold on to it.
He catches with his arms and body not his hands and thats why he has drops.
Deactivate him for this week

C Mac D
09-16-2008, 10:14 AM
sucks.

VikesFan4Life
09-16-2008, 10:23 AM
I'll stick up for Shiancoe a little bit, he doesn't drop EVERYTHING.
He does catch the ball, contrary to popular belief.

Thanks to marstc09 (and others) for the link earlier, kinda helped me temper my opinion on him a bit:
http://sports.aol.com/nfl-players/visanthe-shiancoe/6427?selectedTab=gameLog&season=2007
Not outstanding numbers by any means, but he does make catches.

That being said, he has "crapped the bed" on several occasions with dropped touchdowns or big gains.
You just can't depend on him right now for that "big play".

Poor TE play overall usually does not bode well for developing QBs that need that "nookie blankie" dumpoff pass when the pressure is on, or to simply help him get in a rhythm on a long drive for a TD.

IMO, his performance as of late does not warrant a starting position on this offense, I wouldn't mind seeing Mills or Kleinsasser in the main TE role for the Carolina game.

jdvike
09-16-2008, 10:28 AM
Stanko is just another example of bad personnel moves(see Artis Hicks,Billy Mcmullin,B.Berian??T-Jack etc.) made by Childress...A difficult catch my ass...A difficult catch for him, is anything that hits him in the hands.

Stanko keeps starting because Chili doesn't wanna admit that he fucked it up again signing this bum.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to say this but...






Fire Childress

josdin00
09-16-2008, 10:30 AM
"NordicNed" wrote:


To begin with, not a great pass, it was more on his hip.
Shanko did almost get it into his gut and controll it, but that was followed by a very hard landing and the arm and part of the ball hitting the turf. This knocked the ball loss, much like a catch and then a defender hitting the ball dead on with his helmet. That would be a called
a fumble, where as what happened to shank was the hard landing and turf knocked it lose. Conclusion for me, it was a very tough pass to catch and turn into a reception. Possible ?
Yes.
Supprised it got knocked lose, not at all.

Shanco had a good game overall I thought. I wouldn't put the loss on his shoulders at all.


It was not an easy ball, but the coverage on Shiancoe dictated that the pass had to be wide. Shiancoe layed out for the ball, and let the ball get through his arms. You could see from the reverse angle that he had the ball pinned to his chest/stomach by his elbow. He never had control of the ball, and there was no way he could bring it under control once he let the ball get past his hands. If he had at least gotten his hands on the ball, even if he still dropped it, I wouldn't be as upset with him. He's there to be our pass catching tight end, and the best he can do is an elbow? I am firmly on the Mills bandwagon.

C Mac D
09-16-2008, 10:34 AM
"BBQ" wrote:


Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.

ejmat
09-16-2008, 12:25 PM
"C" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.

olson_10
09-16-2008, 12:32 PM
"C" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.


sure he is..shiancoe sucks, but that game is a complete blowout in our favor if we have a quarterback that is anywhere close to half decent

its downright pathetic and shameful that brad childress is coaching games to see how his project is going rather than coaching them to win

C Mac D
09-16-2008, 12:32 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

Mr-holland
09-16-2008, 12:33 PM
Cut his ass.

olson_10
09-16-2008, 12:34 PM
"C" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??

C Mac D
09-16-2008, 12:40 PM
"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

olson_10
09-16-2008, 12:45 PM
"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:




Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field

C Mac D
09-16-2008, 12:46 PM
"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:






Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.

olson_10
09-16-2008, 12:48 PM
"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:








Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.


lol this coming from the guy that fought the favre debate to the death, only to flip flop his opinion a week later

no tracks to cover..i stick to my guns, jackson sucks and so does shiancoe..if shiancoe catches a TD pass in kansas city last year, then holcomb might still be our quarterback for all you know

C Mac D
09-16-2008, 12:52 PM
"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:










Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.


lol this coming from the guy that fought the favre debate to the death, only to flip flop his opinion a week later

no tracks to cover..i stick to my guns, jackson sucks and so does shiancoe..if shiancoe catches a TD pass in kansas city last year, then holcomb might still be our quarterback for all you know


Hmmm... interesting way to dance around a simple question.

olson_10
09-16-2008, 01:00 PM
"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:












Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.


lol this coming from the guy that fought the favre debate to the death, only to flip flop his opinion a week later

no tracks to cover..i stick to my guns, jackson sucks and so does shiancoe..if shiancoe catches a TD pass in kansas city last year, then holcomb might still be our quarterback for all you know


Hmmm... interesting way to dance around a simple question.

interestingly enough, you didnt ask a question..[rest snipped by josdin]

C Mac D
09-16-2008, 01:12 PM
"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:














Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.


lol this coming from the guy that fought the favre debate to the death, only to flip flop his opinion a week later

no tracks to cover..i stick to my guns, jackson sucks and so does shiancoe..if shiancoe catches a TD pass in kansas city last year, then holcomb might still be our quarterback for all you know


Hmmm... interesting way to dance around a simple question.

interestingly enough, you didnt ask a question..[rest snipped by josdin]


I asked it in the other thread, and you know exactly what it was. If Shaincoe makes the catch, do you still want Jackson benched?

You like to dance around the issue, but I'm still waiting...

baumy300
09-16-2008, 01:15 PM
"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:




Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

I hate Shiancoe as much as the next Vikings fan, BUT...

Did anyone see how he had to dive to catch that ball?

If Tarvaris throws it like even a D-1 QB we have ourselves 6, but when everything you throw is so erratic, well then you're going to have to see diving, jumping, and tough catches being made.

olson_10
09-16-2008, 01:15 PM
"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:
















Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.


lol this coming from the guy that fought the favre debate to the death, only to flip flop his opinion a week later

no tracks to cover..i stick to my guns, jackson sucks and so does shiancoe..if shiancoe catches a TD pass in kansas city last year, then holcomb might still be our quarterback for all you know


Hmmm... interesting way to dance around a simple question.

interestingly enough, you didnt ask a question..do you actually use drugs that make you that delusional before noon?


I asked it in the other thread, and you know exactly what it was. If Shaincoe makes the catch, do you still want Jackson benched?

You like to dance around the issue, but I'm still waiting...

yes, because we all know he made a good throw there, but still came out and made his share of bad ones later on..i dont want jackson as the quarterback at all..im not sure what makes you think im dancing around the question, because my point is pretty clear either way..this team is not going to meet any of our expectations unless we get a new coach with a new philosophy and a new quarterback

ejmat
09-16-2008, 01:25 PM
"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:








Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.

bleedpurple
09-16-2008, 01:27 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:










Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.


NO IT WARRANTS SHIANCOE GETTING FIRED!!!!

olson_10
09-16-2008, 01:28 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:












Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.


NO IT WARRANTS SHIANCOE GETTING FIRED!!!!

and having his hands cut off

ejmat
09-16-2008, 01:30 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:












Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.


NO IT WARRANTS SHIANCOE GETTING FIRED!!!!


I can agree with that.
I like Mills better.

VikesFan4Life
09-16-2008, 01:31 PM
and having his hands cut off

He has hands?
;D

I'm not as down on him as some, like I posted earlier, but I couldn't resist...

Purple Floyd
09-16-2008, 01:32 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:










Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.


Who is responsible for bringing in shank and paying him that much money to drop balls?

MaxVike
09-16-2008, 01:44 PM
He dropped the ball.
He should have caught it.
He gets paid ALOT to catch it.
$8.2MM last year and $3.2MM this year.
His drop cost the Team 4 points.
The Team lost by 3.
Kinda simple really.

olson_10
09-16-2008, 01:46 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"C" wrote:












Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.


Who is responsible for bringing in shank and paying him that much money to drop balls?

braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiildreeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss..apparently he didnt take the hint when the new york giants refused to ever throw him the ball

VikingMike
09-16-2008, 01:49 PM
"MaxVike" wrote:


He dropped the ball.
He should have caught it.
He gets paid ALOT to catch it.
$8.2MM last year and $3.2MM this year.
His drop cost the Team 4 points.
The Team lost by 3.
Kinda simple really.




I am so tired of this guy...he's never made a big catch. Bite the bullet and sit him down. If's he's got any balls, he'll be pissed off and want to prove us all wrong (and maybe make a catch if and when he ever got back on the field).

V-Unit
09-16-2008, 02:03 PM
It's a simple solution. Bench him. If he doesn't he's a bad coach.

PAvikesfan
09-16-2008, 02:50 PM
he is special teams 2nd string.
with an emphasis on the "special..."
andre the giant had better hands and he couldn't even make a fist all the way.

vike_mike
09-16-2008, 03:13 PM
I have NFL ticket here in Cincinnati.
The power went out at about 2:00 pm Sunday.
It was half time and We were up 9-0.
What in the world happen?
I heard on the radio the next day on Colin Cowherd show we were 0-2.
I was in amazement.
How in the world did we not win this game.
I have said this before, Brad Childress's version of the WCO is horrible.
Darryl Bevell is just not the OC we need here.
It has got to change or Zygi WILL make a change, you can bet your house on it.
We are not going to stand for this and neither will he.
I thought that the WCO is suppose to yield RAC's.
I have yet to see any RAC's unless Adrian is catching a screen pass.
You don't want AP and CT and others getting frustrated as they will eventually leave.
Trust me, I know about frustrated players as I live in the city that frustration started in, with the Cincinnati kitty kats.
We do not want to end up like them.
I knew we were in trouble the minute Childress said he was installing that WCO.
I said it back then, and look where we are now.
Frustrated.
Get it together Chilly or Wilf will do it for you.

COJOMAY
09-16-2008, 03:19 PM
"vike_mike" wrote:


I have NFL ticket here in Cincinnati.
The power went out at about 2:00 pm Sunday.
It was half time and We were up 9-0.
What in the world happen?
I heard on the radio the next day on Colin Cowherd show we were 0-2.
I was in amazement.
How in the world did we not win this game.
I have said this before, Brad Childress's version of the WCO is horrible.
Darryl Bevell is just not the OC we need here.
It has got to change or Zygi WILL make a change, you can bet your house on it.
We are not going to stand for this and neither will he.
I thought that the WCO is suppose to yield RAC's.
I have yet to see any RAC's unless Adrian is catching a screen pass.
You don't want AP and CT and others getting frustrated as they will eventually leave.
Trust me, I know about frustrated players as I live in the city that frustration started in, with the Cincinnati kitty kats.
We do not want to end up like them.
I knew we were in trouble the minute Childress said he was installing that WCO.
I said it back then, and look where we are now.
Frustrated.
Get it together Chilly or Wilf will do it for you.



Ahh, another Cincinnati person who hates the Ben-gals.
LOL

vike_mike
09-16-2008, 03:25 PM
Can't stand Carsey Palmer and the kitty kats!
Although I do think Carson is one of the best QB's in the game.
Wish he was our QB.

mountainviking
09-16-2008, 03:30 PM
Shank had an 80 yard completion from Rice last season.
He had the big first down near the end of the half this week.
He's made some catches, he's had some tough drops.
Its football, it goes both ways and its worse when your QB is inconsistent/not quite on either!
Then there is all those downs he blocks on.
I'm not ready to fire Shank yet.
That drop this week was a catch in year's past when the whole "maintain control of the ball through going to the ground," emphasis had yet to be enacted.
It wasn't great, it was certainly a bit low and a bit in front of him...IF he doesn't have to dive forward for it, maybe he cathes it in stride and jogs happily into the back left corner of the endzone.
Got to give some credit/blame to both on that one!!

gagarr
09-16-2008, 03:40 PM
I'm really starting to think that Chilly is hoping to redeem himself by getting his 2 sub performing acquisitions to perform.
Thus, on a crucial 3rd and 2, he put the ball in the hands of TJ and Shank.
If they make the play it helps both of them to look good.

If this isn't the reason why put a crucial scoring opportunity in the hands of the 2 worst players on the offense.
Both known to screw up in pressure situations.

V4L
09-16-2008, 03:42 PM
I was very wrong about Shank

I was a supporter, I guess I still am but I don't believe he will make it

I was wrong

Crow?

Marrdro
09-16-2008, 04:09 PM
"V4L" wrote:


I was very wrong about Shank

I was a supporter, I guess I still am but I don't believe he will make it

I was wrong

Crow?

Your not the only one who thought the FRONT OFFICE made the correct signing of Shanc as well as being wrong about the HEAD COACHES assessment that he was a quality player.


I love crow by the way.
;D

ejmat
09-16-2008, 04:21 PM
"olson_10" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:














Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.


Who is responsible for bringing in shank and paying him that much money to drop balls?

braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiildreeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss..apparently he didnt take the hint when the new york giants refused to ever throw him the ball


Actually the entire FO is.
Believe me it was more than Childress that made the decision to bring in Shiancoe.
If you think Childress has that much power with Zigi's money you are highly mistaken.
This is the same group of people that brought in Jared Allen, Madiau Williams, Bernard Berrian, Chester Taylor, Steve Hutchinson, etc....
Need I go on.


Do you think they are going to get every player correct?
Shiancoe needs to sit but if you are going to blame these people for bringing him in then blame them for bringing in all the talent I mentioned above.
Let's not forget they also drafted players such as Peterson and Rice.
Stop being narrow minded and try to find things wrong to blame Childress.
He may not be the coach we want but don't blame him for things that aren't all his fault.
You also need to give him credit where it's due instead of being one sided.

Purple Floyd
09-16-2008, 04:43 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:
















Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.


Who is responsible for bringing in shank and paying him that much money to drop balls?

braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiildreeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss..apparently he didnt take the hint when the new york giants refused to ever throw him the ball


Actually the entire FO is.
Believe me it was more than Childress that made the decision to bring in Shiancoe.
If you think Childress has that much power with Zigi's money you are highly mistaken.
This is the same group of people that brought in Jared Allen, Madiau Williams, Bernard Berrian, Chester Taylor, Steve Hutchinson, etc....
Need I go on.


Do you think they are going to get every player correct?
Shiancoe needs to sit but if you are going to blame these people for bringing him in then blame them for bringing in all the talent I mentioned above.
Let's not forget they also drafted players such as Peterson and Rice.
Stop being narrow minded and try to find things wrong to blame Childress.
He may not be the coach we want but don't blame him for things that aren't all his fault.
You also need to give him credit where it's due instead of being one sided.


It is understood that he is not the only one that is pulling the trigger, But it is his system and if he doesn't have the biggest say in who we bring in to play in his system then he is really getting the shaft unfairly. After all it is Chilly's system, not Spielman or Bryzzy's system. Also, since he has been here, there has been a disproportionate number of philly players brought in to this team along with QB's (Henson and Bollinger) that had ties to Chilly and not to Spielman, Bryzzy or the departed Foley. Do you believe that the rest of the FO targeted those people independent of Childress and his desires for players he knows and who may know his system?

So that being said, do you think Chilly was less responsible for evaluating whether Shank fit his system than the rest of the FO?

HEY
09-16-2008, 04:52 PM
I wish we had Witten or Gates
:'(

grpape
09-16-2008, 04:58 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


In watching that play the ball was very catchable.
Seeing where the defender was I thought TJ put it in the only place he could have for Shiancoe to make the reception.
Granted it wasn't the easiest catch but it was more than catchable.
Remember this guy gets paid a lot of money to make these catches.
Sorry but you won't find any empathy for Shiancoe from me at this point.
The guy has dropped passes left and right.
I think Mills is a better pass catcher and blocker from what I have seen thus far.

This is how I saw it also. Maybe a tough catch, but only Shank had the opportunity to catch it. TJ put it where it was supposed to be (only his receiver has the opportunity). What bugs me is that he had the damn catch and then lost it. To back him up, however, he did have a nice catch later on in the game. It seems that consistency is the biggest issue with the QB and receivers.

C Mac D
09-16-2008, 04:59 PM
"HEY" wrote:


I wish we had Witten or Gates
:'(


I'd settle for Rossie O'Donnell in there at this point.

bleedpurple
09-16-2008, 05:04 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


















Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.


Who is responsible for bringing in shank and paying him that much money to drop balls?

braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiildreeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss..apparently he didnt take the hint when the new york giants refused to ever throw him the ball


Actually the entire FO is.
Believe me it was more than Childress that made the decision to bring in Shiancoe.
If you think Childress has that much power with Zigi's money you are highly mistaken.
This is the same group of people that brought in Jared Allen, Madiau Williams, Bernard Berrian, Chester Taylor, Steve Hutchinson, etc....
Need I go on.


Do you think they are going to get every player correct?
Shiancoe needs to sit but if you are going to blame these people for bringing him in then blame them for bringing in all the talent I mentioned above.
Let's not forget they also drafted players such as Peterson and Rice.
Stop being narrow minded and try to find things wrong to blame Childress.
He may not be the coach we want but don't blame him for things that aren't all his fault.
You also need to give him credit where it's due instead of being one sided.


It is understood that he is not the only one that is pulling the trigger, But it is his system and if he doesn't have the biggest say in who we bring in to play in his system then he is really getting the shaft unfairly. After all it is Chilly's system, not Spielman or Bryzzy's system. Also, since he has been here, there has been a disproportionate number of philly players brought in to this team along with QB's (Henson and Bollinger) that had ties to Chilly and not to Spielman, Bryzzy or the departed Foley. Do you believe that the rest of the FO targeted those people independent of Childress and his desires for players he knows and who may know his system?

So that being said, do you think Chilly was less responsible for evaluating whether Shank fit his system than the rest of the FO?



I don't give a damn, who brought him in or how much money he makes, alls i care about is who keeps deciding to play him and throw him the ball??...

He and bobby ward should just be back-ups at this point... i.e. bottom of the bench backups..

my depth chart would be

Bernard B.
Aundre Allison
Sidney Rice
Robert Ferguson
Bobby Wade

Kleinsasser
Mills
Shank

and i'd switch Klin and Shank depending on whether i'd go two TE's in a passing situation or in a running situation i'd go with Shank and Klienny... but other than that... shank is not getting in unless he has to...

who cares how much money or who brought the guy in...i just want results...

HEY
09-16-2008, 05:13 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


I don't give a damn, who brought him in or how much money he makes, alls i care about is who keeps deciding to play him and throw him the ball??...

He and bobby ward should just be back-ups at this point... i.e. bottom of the bench backups..

my depth chart would be

Bernard B.
Aundre Allison
Sidney Rice
Robert Ferguson
Bobby Wade

Kleinsasser
Mills
Shank

and i'd switch Klin and Shank depending on whether i'd go two TE's in a passing situation or in a running situation i'd go with Shank and Klienny... but other than that... shank is not getting in unless he has to...

who cares how much money or who brought the guy in...i just want results...


You said it right there! I'm with you, BENCH Shiancoe!!!!

ejmat
09-16-2008, 08:34 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


















Shiancoe couldn't catch the clap from Paris Hilton.
He is WORTHLESS.

We wouldn't be talking about Tarvaris Jackson this week if he had caught that very catchable pass.


Exactly... Thank you!

Jackson isn't the problem.



I hope you are not stating his post warrants your fire Childress theme.
All he stated was if Shiancoe caught the ball we wouldn't be having the TJ hate posts this week.


All I said was, "Jackson isn't the problem"...

Whether it's Shaincoe catching the ball or Childress, draw your own conclusions. Everyone can have their own opinion.

Although, I like how we spread the blame to various players who (repeatedly) play poorly, beating-out players who could probably start (Mills or Sauce).

I like to take a step back and look at the larger picture... Macro vs. Micro.

you mean like jackson as well??


Again... Shaincoe catches that TD... Jackson looks like a hero... but Shank dropped it.

I think you're missing the picture.

thats assuming the rest of the game plays out the same way..we wouldve still finished the game 3-13 on 3rd downs, and still had tons of negatives to take away from it..the fact that shiancoe dropped a ball in the first half doesnt excuse the terrible completion % on third downs in the second half..again, i hate shiancoe as much as anybody, and hes a disgrace, but we still had numerous chances to put that game away in the second half by completing some very easy passes to move the ball down the field


Oh... well, now you're going to rewrite the entire game, I can't argue against that (because it's asinine)... I simply asked about one miss catch.

Sounds like a lot of words simply trying to cover your tracks to me.



To be honest with you this entire thing is asinine.
People bolame who and what they want to blame.
Fact is in Shiancoe's situation the coachng staff called the right play in that situation.
TJ threw a good pass in that situation.
Shiancoe dropped that pass in that situation.
The conclusion I draw is that Shiancoe has dropped critical passes already this year.
You want to fire Childress and that's fine.
You have your opinion too.
However, Shiancoe dropping the right play call and the right throw doesn't warrant his firing.


Who is responsible for bringing in shank and paying him that much money to drop balls?

braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiildreeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss..apparently he didnt take the hint when the new york giants refused to ever throw him the ball


Actually the entire FO is.
Believe me it was more than Childress that made the decision to bring in Shiancoe.
If you think Childress has that much power with Zigi's money you are highly mistaken.
This is the same group of people that brought in Jared Allen, Madiau Williams, Bernard Berrian, Chester Taylor, Steve Hutchinson, etc....
Need I go on.


Do you think they are going to get every player correct?
Shiancoe needs to sit but if you are going to blame these people for bringing him in then blame them for bringing in all the talent I mentioned above.
Let's not forget they also drafted players such as Peterson and Rice.
Stop being narrow minded and try to find things wrong to blame Childress.
He may not be the coach we want but don't blame him for things that aren't all his fault.
You also need to give him credit where it's due instead of being one sided.


It is understood that he is not the only one that is pulling the trigger, But it is his system and if he doesn't have the biggest say in who we bring in to play in his system then he is really getting the shaft unfairly. After all it is Chilly's system, not Spielman or Bryzzy's system. Also, since he has been here, there has been a disproportionate number of philly players brought in to this team along with QB's (Henson and Bollinger) that had ties to Chilly and not to Spielman, Bryzzy or the departed Foley. Do you believe that the rest of the FO targeted those people independent of Childress and his desires for players he knows and who may know his system?

So that being said, do you think Chilly was less responsible for evaluating whether Shank fit his system than the rest of the FO?




I will agree that he brought a bunch of people in he had ties with.
Again, he needs approval from the others.
Remember there is a "Triangle Of Authorty".
As I stated they did bring in bad players.
They also brought in very good players.
Not everyone is perfect and you have to take the good with the bad.
Shiancoe happens to be a bad choice.


Now when we talk about who plays then yes, Childres is the one that makes those decisions.
Therefore the more he plays Shiancoe and he doesn't give Mills more of a chance the more I will disagree with that decision.
However, I am not there during practice and am not there during on or off field converesation.
Therefore I do not know the entire picture.
We as fans voice what we want but the bottom line is they make the decisions.
We can agree or disagree.
It doesn't change the fact he is the HC right now.

In my opinion this team is headed in the right direction.
Speaking for myself I want to win now as most of you do.
My point is you cannot blame Childress for everything you are trying to blame him for.
Some things you can, some you can't.
Yes some of his decisions are the reason we are 0-2.
However, some of his decisions are the reason why we were highly competitive with two 13 - 3 teams from last year albeit the Colts were banged up and we should have stuck the dagger in them when we had the chance.
But we didn't.
We live and learn and hopefully Childress does the same.
Time will tell.

marstc09
09-16-2008, 08:38 PM
"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


My rule is if you put both hands on it, you should catch it.

marstc09
09-16-2008, 08:40 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Not trying to pick on anyone here but I have seen alot of fans say they are tired of things like Shanc dropping balls.

I get that your tired of it but just for curiousity sake, what are you gonna do about it?

Maybe I should start a poll or something. ::)


Not buy anymore tickets.

Chazz
09-16-2008, 11:27 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Not trying to pick on anyone here but I have seen alot of fans say they are tired of things like Shanc dropping balls.

I get that your tired of it but just for curiousity sake, what are you gonna do about it?

Maybe I should start a poll or something. ::)


Not buy anymore tickets.



Bingo! I bet they would love to have "booing" fans then. Of course, I didn't think there was that much booing.

Bleedin Purple
09-16-2008, 11:50 PM
I'd like to see him get a few more chances, seems like he only gets the ball thrown to him once or twice a game and one is a big drop.. The guys need to get in a rhythm out there..

I also wouldnt mind seeing Mills playing some more TE, and Klein, he is always reliable.

stateVIKE44
09-17-2008, 12:31 AM
"HEY" wrote:


I wish we had Witten or Gates
:'(


I don't really, becaues it would be even more frustrating watching an All-Pro tight end go by the wayside because his coach doesn't know how to use him ... or his QB can't get him the ball.

DustinDupont
09-17-2008, 12:44 AM
"stateVIKE44" wrote:


"HEY" wrote:


I wish we had Witten or Gates
:'(


I don't really, becaues it would be even more frustrating watching an All-Pro tight end go by the wayside because his coach doesn't know how to use him ... or his QB can't get him the ball.


well if the tight end could gt open the qb could get him the ball

midgensa
09-17-2008, 01:23 AM
I think the frustration with Shiancoe comes completely from the fact that he could be a dominant part of our offense.
This guy has NO problem getting open ... is constantly finding space in the field and getting to it, but when the ball gets there he does not hold on to it. He already has about 30 yards in drops this year including the touchdown. He is on pace to cost us 8 TDs and 200+ yards this season just because he cannot catch.
Lets not even throw in the fact that if he could catch, T-Jack would maybe go to him more often as the "reliable" check down.
Shiancoe' stone hands are hurting this team pretty noticeably ... thus the frustration.

DustinDupont
09-17-2008, 01:29 AM
"midgensa" wrote:


I think the frustration with Shiancoe comes completely from the fact that he could be a dominant part of our offense.
This guy has NO problem getting open ... is constantly finding space in the field and getting to it, but when the ball gets there he does not hold on to it. He already has about 30 yards in drops this year including the touchdown. He is on pace to cost us 8 TDs and 200+ yards this season just because he cannot catch.
Lets not even throw in the fact that if he could catch, T-Jack would maybe go to him more often as the "reliable" check down.
Shiancoe' stone hands are hurting this team pretty noticeably ... thus the frustration.



are they even stone hands?? when ever he trys
to catch a ball he uses his arms

ejmat
09-17-2008, 07:52 AM
"DustinDupont" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


I think the frustration with Shiancoe comes completely from the fact that he could be a dominant part of our offense.
This guy has NO problem getting open ... is constantly finding space in the field and getting to it, but when the ball gets there he does not hold on to it. He already has about 30 yards in drops this year including the touchdown. He is on pace to cost us 8 TDs and 200+ yards this season just because he cannot catch.
Lets not even throw in the fact that if he could catch, T-Jack would maybe go to him more often as the "reliable" check down.
Shiancoe' stone hands are hurting this team pretty noticeably ... thus the frustration.



are they even stone hands?? when ever he trys
to catch a ball he uses his arms



Maybe we can call him stone-arms instead
;D
In all seriousness, this is a big problem.
It doesn't help the confidence of a young QB trying to get in a rythem and trying to win over fans that are at best indifferent with him right now.
In this scenerio Chilly really needs to bit the bullet, take the loss and let Mills get a lot of reps.
He seems to do well.
I didn't like that he missed that one pass last game but he has caught every other pass throw his way (at least with my recolection).

Guruzen
09-17-2008, 08:36 AM
We pay that MOFO to catch balls!!! Not stand there feeling his nuts!!! For that kind of money there is NO excuse and NO second chances. He has to deliver!

All you people wanting to give him second chances and sympathising with him... keep in mind that he is paid more money in one year than you make in 10 years. Just like a kicker has to make the game winning FG, guys getting paid this much has to make plays, so don't give me tha BS about giving him a chance.

VikesFan4Life
09-17-2008, 08:47 AM
I was surfing teh Interwebs when I found this recent picture of Shiancoe:
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/zoidberg.jpg

VikingMike
09-17-2008, 08:58 AM
"Ragnarok" wrote:


I was surfing teh Interwebs when I found this recent picture of Shiancoe:
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/zoidberg.jpg




LMAO, how does he get his helmet on and off?
;D

Mjölnir
09-17-2008, 09:02 AM
"Ragnarok" wrote:


I was surfing teh Interwebs when I found this recent picture of Shiancoe:
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/zoidberg.jpg



+100

CCthebest
09-17-2008, 09:28 AM
Id love to see Mills for TE pass plays and move Jimmy K for run plays. Shank sucks equally at both.

ejmat
09-17-2008, 11:53 AM
"CCthebest" wrote:


Id love to see Mills for TE pass plays and move Jimmy K for run plays. Shank sucks equally at both.


I don't know if I'd go as far as saying he sucks equally for both.
For the most part he does a good job with his blocking assignments.
His pass catching definately leaves a lot to be desired.
I do agree we need to see more of Mills.

stateVIKE44
09-17-2008, 12:31 PM
"DustinDupont" wrote:


"stateVIKE44" wrote:


"HEY" wrote:


I wish we had Witten or Gates
:'(


I don't really, becaues it would be even more frustrating watching an All-Pro tight end go by the wayside because his coach doesn't know how to use him ... or his QB can't get him the ball.


well if the tight end could gt open the qb could get him the ball


Just all those times the qb hits those open receivers or ours?

ejmat
09-17-2008, 01:19 PM
"stateVIKE44" wrote:


"DustinDupont" wrote:


"stateVIKE44" wrote:


"HEY" wrote:


I wish we had Witten or Gates
:'(


I don't really, becaues it would be even more frustrating watching an All-Pro tight end go by the wayside because his coach doesn't know how to use him ... or his QB can't get him the ball.


well if the tight end could gt open the qb could get him the ball


Just all those times the qb hits those open receivers or ours?


The one thing I will say about Shiancoe is he has been open more times than not.
Sometimes TJ doesn't get him the ball.
Other times he drops the ball.
But I don't think it's a question of him getting open often enough.
The WRs on the other hand has had their difficulties getting open.

V4L
09-17-2008, 01:23 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"stateVIKE44" wrote:


"DustinDupont" wrote:


"stateVIKE44" wrote:


"HEY" wrote:


I wish we had Witten or Gates
:'(


I don't really, becaues it would be even more frustrating watching an All-Pro tight end go by the wayside because his coach doesn't know how to use him ... or his QB can't get him the ball.


well if the tight end could gt open the qb could get him the ball


Just all those times the qb hits those open receivers or ours?


The one thing I will say about Shiancoe is he has been open more times than not.
Sometimes TJ doesn't get him the ball.
Other times he drops the ball.
But I don't think it's a question of him getting open often enough.
The WRs on the other hand has had their difficulties getting open.



He will get it

ndobney
09-17-2008, 02:28 PM
ok hears the deal!! Shiancoe is actually considered the worst player in the NFL at the TE position, in most TE rankings Jeff K is actually rated higher then him..... He is the Troy Williamson of the TE position, Troy W. May be the worst 1st WR of all time!!!! The guy has made some nice catches even though they are few, but look at the situations he does make the catch 3 rd down and 25!! This guy has dropped for TD passes and countless first down passes!! He is part of the reason that TJack looks so bad!! You could have Joe Montana or Peyton Manning as your QB and if the reciever drops the ball the result is the same.... I don't care who the starter is at QB, but either Jackson or Gus the Vikings are going to need some help at the TE position. The TE should be the QB's best friend not his worst enemy!!

vikinggreg
09-18-2008, 01:20 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Not trying to pick on anyone here but I have seen alot of fans say they are tired of things like Shanc dropping balls.

I get that your tired of it but just for curiousity sake, what are you gonna do about it?

Maybe I should start a poll or something. ::)


Tarvaris is so tired of Shiancoe dropping the ball he is going to sit for a week or two or season

vikinggreg
09-18-2008, 01:28 AM
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/westvirginiavikings/100_0634.jpg
Shiancoe I hate you, I will get me revenge >:(

midgensa
09-18-2008, 01:48 AM
I have read no posts ... but if this is a complete this thought thread ...
Visanthe Shiancoe .... sucks.

slinkey
09-18-2008, 01:59 AM
I second the motion...

List of things he sucks:



1.
Phenises

vikesfan713
09-18-2008, 02:06 AM
here is one for you bench shiancoe and start mills. oh yeah fire bevell and chilly

Vikes_King
09-18-2008, 02:12 AM
"vikesfan713" wrote:


here is one for you bench shiancoe and start mills. oh yeah fire bevell and chilly



They honestly do need to give Mills more play time, push Shiancoe to produce, and if he doesn't, sit him.

vikesfan713
09-18-2008, 02:16 AM
yeah there is areason NE was pissed to lose mills

ejmat
09-18-2008, 08:11 AM
I am all for starting Mills as I've said numerous times.
To me he reminds me of Heath Farwell with his intensity.
Of course they aren't the same position but I like the way they play and give 100%.

Purple Floyd
09-18-2008, 08:18 AM
"vikesfan713" wrote:


yeah there is areason NE was pissed to lose mills


He was good with a video camera?

PurplePeopleEaters
09-18-2008, 08:27 AM
Looking at size alone, Dallas Clark is 6'3" 252, Chris Cooley is 6'3" 258, and Mills is 6'1" 235.

Looking at College stats, at Tulsa Mills set an NCAA record in 2005 with 1,235 yards on 87 receptions, the most ever for a Tight End.

Mill seems to have much better hands than Shiancoe based on what I've seen thus far. I'm not too sure about blocking with Mills because I haven't really singled him out on any play, but it probably can't get much worse than Shiancoe.

ejmat
09-18-2008, 08:46 AM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


Looking at size alone, Dallas Clark is 6'3" 252, Chris Cooley is 6'3" 258, and Mills is 6'1" 235.

Looking at College stats, at Tulsa Mills set an NCAA record in 2005 with 1,235 yards on 87 receptions, the most ever for a Tight End.

Mill seems to have much better hands than Shiancoe based on what I've seen thus far. I'm not too sure about blocking with Mills because I haven't really singled him out on any play, but it probably can't get much worse than Shiancoe.


I haven't seem much of that either however I did see him take out a lineman on a Peterson run.
I like the kid and think he would be a huge upgrade over Shiancoe.

Prophet
09-18-2008, 09:28 AM
I'll go into the game and drop key passes for free, save on the salary cap.

bleedpurple
09-18-2008, 11:30 AM
Shankhoe should be benched!!.. plus, we should start Mills, a tight-end in our offense would kill... and should have been TJ's security blanket... i hope he starts Mills on Sunday to give Frerotte on outlet, bc lord only knows shankhoe isn't the answer..

It's funny how Chilly benches TJ but sticks with this overpaid looser!

Webby
09-18-2008, 11:36 AM
"Vikes_King" wrote:


"vikesfan713" wrote:


here is one for you bench shiancoe and start mills. oh yeah fire bevell and chilly



They honestly do need to give Mills more play time, push Shiancoe to produce, and if he doesn't, sit him.



Isn't the rub on Mills that while he's a good catching TE, he is poor in blocking?

Garland Greene
09-18-2008, 11:38 AM
"Webby" wrote:


"Vikes_King" wrote:


"vikesfan713" wrote:


here is one for you bench shiancoe and start mills. oh yeah fire bevell and chilly



They honestly do need to give Mills more play time, push Shiancoe to produce, and if he doesn't, sit him.



Isn't the rub on Mills that while he's a good catching TE, he is poor in blocking?


That is what I heard as well which is weird considering he was a FB in college

Marrdro
09-18-2008, 11:44 AM
"Garland" wrote:


"Webby" wrote:


"Vikes_King" wrote:


"vikesfan713" wrote:


here is one for you bench shiancoe and start mills. oh yeah fire bevell and chilly



They honestly do need to give Mills more play time, push Shiancoe to produce, and if he doesn't, sit him.



Isn't the rub on Mills that while he's a good catching TE, he is poor in blocking?


That is what I heard as well which is weird considering he was a FB in college

I forget the play, however, the Vikes had a passing package out there in the Colts game and they appeared to audible to a passing play were Mills came in off the A gap to block the DT/LB that was filling it.

That cat got rocked out of his jock.

As I've said before, not trying to pick on Mills, I really like his stuff, however, he is a "Hybrid" type of TE and not a "Inline" guy who can take on those big guys like a Shanc or a Sauce can.

Again, not saying he can't block, just not the big cats that he will go up against in a running play.

bleedpurple
09-18-2008, 11:48 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"Webby" wrote:


"Vikes_King" wrote:


"vikesfan713" wrote:


here is one for you bench shiancoe and start mills. oh yeah fire bevell and chilly



They honestly do need to give Mills more play time, push Shiancoe to produce, and if he doesn't, sit him.



Isn't the rub on Mills that while he's a good catching TE, he is poor in blocking?


That is what I heard as well which is weird considering he was a FB in college

I forget the play, however, the Vikes had a passing package out there in the Colts game and they appeared to audible to a passing play were Mills came in off the A gap to block the DT/LB that was filling it.

That cat got rocked out of his jock.

As I've said before, not trying to pick on Mills, I really like his stuff, however, he is a "Hybrid" type of TE and not a "Inline" guy who can take on those big guys like a Shanc or a Sauce can.

Again, not saying he can't block, just not the big cats that he will go up against in a running play.


Honestly what TE besides Kleinny can actually block a DE??.. not many!!.. Either way, i say play him in the two TE sets with Sass and also put him in the slot occasionally a'la Dallas Clark and Antonio gates...

I think it would atleast give us a matchup advantage every now and then on a LB.. to move the ball...

It's either that or crossing your fingers that Shank can actually catch a ball... and we ALL know how that works out!!

gagarr
09-18-2008, 11:52 AM
Shank and Mills should split the playing time, based on the play.

IMO, Mills has so far earned more time.

Marrdro
09-18-2008, 11:54 AM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"Webby" wrote:


"Vikes_King" wrote:




here is one for you bench shiancoe and start mills. oh yeah fire bevell and chilly



They honestly do need to give Mills more play time, push Shiancoe to produce, and if he doesn't, sit him.



Isn't the rub on Mills that while he's a good catching TE, he is poor in blocking?


That is what I heard as well which is weird considering he was a FB in college

I forget the play, however, the Vikes had a passing package out there in the Colts game and they appeared to audible to a passing play were Mills came in off the A gap to block the DT/LB that was filling it.

That cat got rocked out of his jock.

As I've said before, not trying to pick on Mills, I really like his stuff, however, he is a "Hybrid" type of TE and not a "Inline" guy who can take on those big guys like a Shanc or a Sauce can.

Again, not saying he can't block, just not the big cats that he will go up against in a running play.


Honestly what TE besides Kleinny can actually block a DE??.. not many!!.. Either way, i say play him in the two TE sets with Sass and also put him in the slot occasionally a'la Dallas Clark and Antonio gates...

I think it would atleast give us a matchup advantage every now and then on a LB.. to move the ball...

It's either that or crossing your fingers that Shank can actually catch a ball... and we ALL know how that works out!!

I still contend that our issues with this offense has been that our 2 starting WR's can't get open to a point that TJ feels comfortable throwing to them.

When we have moved the ball (late in the Broncos game, in the GB game and in the Indy game) in the air it has been with 3 or 4 WR sets.
(remember the 26 second scoring drive in the Indy game).

I really want to get away from that 2 TE set if the OL (and it has to a point this year) can create a pocket and go with this set.....

BB











LT

LG


C

RG
RT





AA





RICE























QB





TE
























RB

But that would mean opening the playbook up a bit more and for some reason that escapes me, the still trend to the 2 TE/FB sets.
::)

Prophet
09-18-2008, 12:01 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


...I still contend that our issues with this offense has been that our 2 starting WR's can't get open to a point that TJ feels comfortable throwing to them....

TJack passed to the WRs and TEs about the same amount and about half as many of those to the RBs.

Purple Floyd
09-18-2008, 12:06 PM
Does anybody have any video of shank blocking well like people are saying? Because the times I specifically watched him blocking I was not impressed. There were blocks he missed that led to pressure on Jackson while he stood there doing nothing and also blocks where he made contact for a split second and then withdrew and did nothing else.I also saw him fail to block a LB during a rollout pass that went to a RB that resulted in no gain.

I hope what I saw was rare because I have been more impresses with his pass catching than his run blocking.

Marrdro
09-18-2008, 12:09 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Does anybody have any video of shank blocking well like people are saying? Because the times I specifically watched him blocking I was not impressed. There were blocks he missed that led to pressure on Jackson while he stood there doing nothing and also blocks where he made contact for a split second and then withdrew and did nothing else.I also saw him fail to block a LB during a rollout pass that went to a RB that resulted in no gain.

I hope what I saw was rare because I have been more impresses with his pass catching than his run blocking.

Don't forget that he "Lightened Up" this year.
Still not sure I am happy about that or not.
;D

mountainviking
09-18-2008, 12:10 PM
I still contend that our issues with this offense has been that our 2 starting WR's can't get open to a point that TJ feels comfortable throwing to them....


Exactly!!
Definitely one of our problems.
But my question is what is causing this problem...the WRs, the routes, the defenses we've played, the TJack Jitters (lack of confidence) or the sequence plays are called in?
Likely, a little of all of the above?

Harris and Woodson we're holding hands with our WRs on nearly every play...Indi's secondary is decent, but not that good...sometimes it seems to me that our routes are also too vanilla.
Maybe we need more down field route changes...ie. run straight 10 yards deep, then cut straight to the middle, or slant toward deep center or hook back or ???

Last year, I know Shank missed some big blocks for sacks/TOs.
This year, I haven't noticed any blatent misses...

gagarr
09-18-2008, 12:10 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"Webby" wrote:






here is one for you bench shiancoe and start mills. oh yeah fire bevell and chilly



They honestly do need to give Mills more play time, push Shiancoe to produce, and if he doesn't, sit him.



Isn't the rub on Mills that while he's a good catching TE, he is poor in blocking?


That is what I heard as well which is weird considering he was a FB in college

I forget the play, however, the Vikes had a passing package out there in the Colts game and they appeared to audible to a passing play were Mills came in off the A gap to block the DT/LB that was filling it.

That cat got rocked out of his jock.

As I've said before, not trying to pick on Mills, I really like his stuff, however, he is a "Hybrid" type of TE and not a "Inline" guy who can take on those big guys like a Shanc or a Sauce can.

Again, not saying he can't block, just not the big cats that he will go up against in a running play.


Honestly what TE besides Kleinny can actually block a DE??.. not many!!.. Either way, i say play him in the two TE sets with Sass and also put him in the slot occasionally a'la Dallas Clark and Antonio gates...

I think it would atleast give us a matchup advantage every now and then on a LB.. to move the ball...

It's either that or crossing your fingers that Shank can actually catch a ball... and we ALL know how that works out!!

I still contend that our issues with this offense has been that our 2 starting WR's can't get open to a point that TJ feels comfortable throwing to them.

When we have moved the ball (late in the Broncos game, in the GB game and in the Indy game) in the air it has been with 3 or 4 WR sets.
(remember the 26 second scoring drive in the Indy game).

I really want to get away from that 2 TE set if the OL (and it has to a point this year) can create a pocket and go with this set.....

BB












LT


LG


C

RG

RT






AA





RICE























QB






TE
























RB

But that would mean opening the playbook up a bit more and for some reason that escapes me, the still trend to the 2 TE/FB sets.

::)


IMO, the reason for the 2 TE sets were: 1. It helped the run game.
2. It provided extra protection for TJ
The problem with the 2 TE set is that the TE's are not good receivers, thus don't act as a reliable check down guy.

Thus, a 3rd WR would require the D to go to the nickle and draw players away from the LOS.
But then you need a QB that can go through his progressions, I don't think TJ could.

As for the games you listed, Vikes were behind in each and the D's were playing prevent for the most part.
Thus, it's expected TJ could move the ball.
I would love to see such drives out of the gate.
But then again Chilly wouldn't call that many pass plays in a row for TJ either unless he had too.
Sort of a catch-22.

Purple Floyd
09-18-2008, 12:15 PM
If Childress would have put in the same offense Dallas is running I believe we could have been a strong team with the talent we have on the roster. I have serious doubts as to whether we will have much, if any success with this system no matter who is under center.

Marrdro
09-18-2008, 12:20 PM
"gagarr" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:








here is one for you bench shiancoe and start mills. oh yeah fire bevell and chilly



They honestly do need to give Mills more play time, push Shiancoe to produce, and if he doesn't, sit him.



Isn't the rub on Mills that while he's a good catching TE, he is poor in blocking?


That is what I heard as well which is weird considering he was a FB in college

I forget the play, however, the Vikes had a passing package out there in the Colts game and they appeared to audible to a passing play were Mills came in off the A gap to block the DT/LB that was filling it.

That cat got rocked out of his jock.

As I've said before, not trying to pick on Mills, I really like his stuff, however, he is a "Hybrid" type of TE and not a "Inline" guy who can take on those big guys like a Shanc or a Sauce can.

Again, not saying he can't block, just not the big cats that he will go up against in a running play.


Honestly what TE besides Kleinny can actually block a DE??.. not many!!.. Either way, i say play him in the two TE sets with Sass and also put him in the slot occasionally a'la Dallas Clark and Antonio gates...

I think it would atleast give us a matchup advantage every now and then on a LB.. to move the ball...

It's either that or crossing your fingers that Shank can actually catch a ball... and we ALL know how that works out!!

I still contend that our issues with this offense has been that our 2 starting WR's can't get open to a point that TJ feels comfortable throwing to them.

When we have moved the ball (late in the Broncos game, in the GB game and in the Indy game) in the air it has been with 3 or 4 WR sets.
(remember the 26 second scoring drive in the Indy game).

I really want to get away from that 2 TE set if the OL (and it has to a point this year) can create a pocket and go with this set.....

BB












LT


LG


C

RG

RT






AA





RICE























QB






TE
























RB

But that would mean opening the playbook up a bit more and for some reason that escapes me, the still trend to the 2 TE/FB sets.

::)


IMO, the reason for the 2 TE sets were: 1. It helped the run game.
2. It provided extra protection for TJ
The problem with the 2 TE set is that the TE's are not good receivers, thus don't act as a reliable check down guy.

Thus, a 3rd WR would require the D to go to the nickle and draw players away from the LOS.
But then you need a QB that can go through his progressions, I don't think TJ could.

As for the games you listed, Vikes were behind in each and the D's were playing prevent for the most part.
Thus, it's expected TJ could move the ball.
I would love to see such drives out of the gate.
But then again Chilly wouldn't call that many pass plays in a row for TJ either unless he had too.
Sort of a catch-22.

I will give you the run game and maybe even the protection, however, much to my chagrin Hicks and Birk have been getting it done so the protection issue isn't what I thought it was gonna be.

As to the ability to get through his progressions, in the Indy game they showed several highlights were he did and the one I especially liked is when he did it and still delivered the ball in the face of a blitz.

Lets not forget the 26 second drive that everyone keeps ignoring me on.
A prevent defense, as you noted helped, however, when the announcers said they should take a knee cause they couldn't pass, they did pass and passed effectively and got the FG.

Long story short, good protection and open WR's equate to a good TJ.

bleedpurple
09-18-2008, 12:28 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


If Childress would have put in the same offense Dallas is running I believe we could have been a strong team with the talent we have on the roster. I have serious doubts as to whether we will have much, if any success with this system no matter who is under center.


AMEN BROTHER!!! AMEN!!!!

singersp
09-20-2008, 09:45 AM
"NordicNed" wrote:


To begin with, not a great pass, it was more on his hip.
Shanko did almost get it into his gut and controll it, but that was followed by a very hard landing and the arm and part of the ball hitting the turf. This knocked the ball loss, much like a catch and then a defender hitting the ball dead on with his helmet. That would be a called
a fumble, where as what happened to shank was the hard landing and turf knocked it lose. Conclusion for me, it was a very tough pass to catch and turn into a reception. Possible ?
Yes.
Supprised it got knocked lose, not at all.

Shanco had a good game overall I thought. I wouldn't put the loss on his shoulders at all.




+1

People are quick to bash Shiancoe when he didn't catch a bad throw. That's fucked up thinking in my book. He caught a very nice hard catch later in the game that sustained a nice drive, yrt were is there any mention of that?

If he was dropping easy catches, that would be a different matter, but ones that I've seen him not hang onto were either tough catches or where he was drilled right after grabbing it. I did see him drop one this year that I thought was definitely catchable.

IMO, most people hatred here for Shiancoe can be traced back to that TD pass he dropped last year. That is typical of many fans that I have seen on here over the years.

It's either 1 bad play or 1 bad game & the haters dwell on that forever & continue their hate for that player, only looking for the negative rather than looking at the overall performance objectively. Or a player has one nice great play & he is immediately crowned "a beast".

DustinDupont
09-20-2008, 10:42 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"NordicNed" wrote:


To begin with, not a great pass, it was more on his hip.
Shanko did almost get it into his gut and controll it, but that was followed by a very hard landing and the arm and part of the ball hitting the turf. This knocked the ball loss, much like a catch and then a defender hitting the ball dead on with his helmet. That would be a called
a fumble, where as what happened to shank was the hard landing and turf knocked it lose. Conclusion for me, it was a very tough pass to catch and turn into a reception. Possible ?
Yes.
Supprised it got knocked lose, not at all.
Shanco had a good game overall I thought. I wouldn't put the loss on his shoulders at all.




+1

People are quick to bash Shiancoe when he didn't catch a bad throw. That's fucked up thinking in my book. He caught a very nice hard catch later in the game that sustained a nice drive, yrt were is there any mention of that?

If he was dropping easy catches, that would be a different matter, but ones that I've seen him not hang onto were either tough catches or where he was drilled right after grabbing it. I did see him drop one this year that I thought was definitely catchable.

IMO, most people hatred here for Shiancoe can be traced back to that TD pass he dropped last year. That is typical of many fans that I have seen on here over the years.

It's either 1 bad play or 1 bad game & the haters dwell on that forever & continue their hate for that player, only looking for the negative rather than looking at the overall performance objectively. Or a player has one nice great play & he is immediately crowned "a beast".


Maybe i could agree with you but it hasnt been just 1 play or 1 game

ejmat
09-20-2008, 11:48 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"NordicNed" wrote:


To begin with, not a great pass, it was more on his hip.
Shanko did almost get it into his gut and controll it, but that was followed by a very hard landing and the arm and part of the ball hitting the turf. This knocked the ball loss, much like a catch and then a defender hitting the ball dead on with his helmet. That would be a called
a fumble, where as what happened to shank was the hard landing and turf knocked it lose. Conclusion for me, it was a very tough pass to catch and turn into a reception. Possible ?
Yes.
Supprised it got knocked lose, not at all.

Shanco had a good game overall I thought. I wouldn't put the loss on his shoulders at all.




+1

People are quick to bash Shiancoe when he didn't catch a bad throw. That's fucked up thinking in my book. He caught a very nice hard catch later in the game that sustained a nice drive, yrt were is there any mention of that?

If he was dropping easy catches, that would be a different matter, but ones that I've seen him not hang onto were either tough catches or where he was drilled right after grabbing it. I did see him drop one this year that I thought was definitely catchable.

IMO, most people hatred here for Shiancoe can be traced back to that TD pass he dropped last year. That is typical of many fans that I have seen on here over the years.

It's either 1 bad play or 1 bad game & the haters dwell on that forever & continue their hate for that player, only looking for the negative rather than looking at the overall performance objectively. Or a player has one nice great play & he is immediately crowned "a beast".


Being totally honest here.
Last year I backed Shiancoe up with the supposed dropped TD pass.
If we are talking about the one against KC I thought he actually caught it and the refs blew the call.
However that pass TJ threw him in the endzone this year was highly catchable and should have been caught.
He has made a nice grab or two.
However, he has dropped a couple very catchable balls.
Sorry I can't agree with the whole give him a break here.
He is paid too much money to drop as many passes as he has at this level.

Purple Floyd
09-20-2008, 12:18 PM
It comes down to production and what you would expect from this position in this system.

Last year he caught 27 balls for just under 325 yards and one TD. That put him at 30th in the league in an offense that should see much more production from the position. This year he is on pace for 32 receptions.


Some of that is misleading because I believe he is blocking more than anticipated(Which I feel Sasser is far better at) and seeing the ball thrown his way as much, but on the plays he is not blocking, the TE should have been the position on 3rd downs that consistently helped us move the chains and he hasn't been able to do that with TJ. Some of it was bad passes at his ankles and some were drops that he should have caught.

In the long run if he is going to be our TE, he is going to have to start making plays and getting open. Then he is going to have to hang on to the ball when he gets the chance. The whole thing with the dropped balls is this: Every TE drops passes now and then. The great ones will make several great plays between dropped passes that give the team and the fans the confidence to keep going back to them.

So far he has not gotten to that point.

VikingMike
09-20-2008, 12:28 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


It comes down to production and what you would expect from this position in this system.

Last year he caught 27 balls for just under 325 yards and one TD. That put him at 30th in the league in an offense that should see much more production from the position. This year he is on pace for 32 receptions.


Some of that is misleading because I believe he is blocking more than anticipated(Which I feel Sasser is far better at) and seeing the ball thrown his way as much, but on the plays he is not blocking, the TE should have been the position on 3rd downs that consistently helped us move the chains and he hasn't been able to do that with TJ. Some of it was bad passes at his ankles and some were drops that he should have caught.

In the long run if he is going to be our TE, he is going to have to start making plays and getting open. Then he is going to have to hang on to the ball when he gets the chance. The whole thing with the dropped balls is this: Every TE drops passes now and then. The great ones will make several great plays between dropped passes that give the team and the fans the confidence to keep going back to them.

So far he has not gotten to that point.



That's an excellent post (because it sums up how I feel too). :)

Our TE must get open and catch balls...simple. I cannot recall a single big catch made by Shiancoe. I'm not bashing him, just saying what I've believe, based on what I've seen.

I understand they gave him a lot of money and they have to play him, but there comes a time when you have to evaluate his contribution to the team, or lack of it, and make the move accordingly.

vikinggreg
09-21-2008, 04:06 PM
"singersp" wrote:


People are quick to bash Shiancoe when he didn't catch a bad throw. That's fucked up thinking in my book. He caught a very nice hard catch later in the game that sustained a nice drive, yrt were is there any mention of that?

If he was dropping easy catches, that would be a different matter, but ones that I've seen him not hang onto were either tough catches or where he was drilled right after grabbing it. I did see him drop one this year that I thought was definitely catchable.

IMO, most people hatred here for Shiancoe can be traced back to that TD pass he dropped last year. That is typical of many fans that I have seen on here over the years.

It's either 1 bad play or 1 bad game & the haters dwell on that forever & continue their hate for that player, only looking for the negative rather than looking at the overall performance objectively. Or a player has one nice great play & he is immediately crowned "a beast".


Shiancoe is a beast he got a td
















Oh wait is that's one play

;D

marshallvike
09-21-2008, 04:10 PM
"vikinggreg" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


People are quick to bash Shiancoe when he didn't catch a bad throw. That's ~messed up~ up thinking in my book. He caught a very nice hard catch later in the game that sustained a nice drive, yrt were is there any mention of that?

If he was dropping easy catches, that would be a different matter, but ones that I've seen him not hang onto were either tough catches or where he was drilled right after grabbing it. I did see him drop one this year that I thought was definitely catchable.

IMO, most people hatred here for Shiancoe can be traced back to that TD pass he dropped last year. That is typical of many fans that I have seen on here over the years.

It's either 1 bad play or 1 bad game & the haters dwell on that forever & continue their hate for that player, only looking for the negative rather than looking at the overall performance objectively. Or a player has one nice great play & he is immediately crowned "a beast".


Shiancoe is a beast he got a td
















Oh wait is that's one play

;D


bad throw my a$$. that was an easy catch. the throw was where it needed to be to avoid the pick.

jargomcfargo
09-21-2008, 04:44 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"NordicNed" wrote:


To begin with, not a great pass, it was more on his hip.
Shanko did almost get it into his gut and controll it, but that was followed by a very hard landing and the arm and part of the ball hitting the turf. This knocked the ball loss, much like a catch and then a defender hitting the ball dead on with his helmet. That would be a called
a fumble, where as what happened to shank was the hard landing and turf knocked it lose. Conclusion for me, it was a very tough pass to catch and turn into a reception. Possible ?
Yes.
Supprised it got knocked lose, not at all.

Shanco had a good game overall I thought. I wouldn't put the loss on his shoulders at all.




+1

People are quick to bash Shiancoe when he didn't catch a bad throw. That's ~messed up~ up thinking in my book. He caught a very nice hard catch later in the game that sustained a nice drive, yrt were is there any mention of that?

If he was dropping easy catches, that would be a different matter, but ones that I've seen him not hang onto were either tough catches or where he was drilled right after grabbing it. I did see him drop one this year that I thought was definitely catchable.

IMO, most people hatred here for Shiancoe can be traced back to that TD pass he dropped last year. That is typical of many fans that I have seen on here over the years.

It's either 1 bad play or 1 bad game & the haters dwell on that forever & continue their hate for that player, only looking for the negative rather than looking at the overall performance objectively. Or a player has one nice great play & he is immediately crowned "a beast".


Bullshit!
Vikings & Football Talk / Vikings Fan Forum / Re: Vikings KFFL tidbits (15-17 Sept. 2008)
Schiancoe doesn't have trouble catching the ball.
Schiancoe just can't hold onto the ball.
I mean seriously. Go through every one his so called drops and look at them.
He catches the ball initially, but as soon as he is hit or hits the ground, the ball comes loose.
That's his achilles heal. That isn't going to change.
I'm happy he scored a TD. But he will never be great.

Ltrey33
09-21-2008, 05:01 PM
Shianc's drops haven't been easy balls....he often gets hit IMMEDIATELY after catching the ball...

BUT....

Most of those are balls that a STARTING NFL tight end needs to come down with.

BBQ Platypus
09-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Bottom line - a starting tight end should be more reliable than Shiancoe.
A pass catching tight end should be a quarterback's security blanket - a guy he can always count on to catch what's thrown at him.
To say that we haven't been seeing that from Shiancoe would be a gross understatement.

HornedHat
09-21-2008, 05:37 PM
Yep. Shanks gets a little love back for his TD, but I'm still looking for Mills to take his job away for good.

jargomcfargo
09-21-2008, 05:53 PM
"HornedHat" wrote:


Yep. Shanks gets a little love back for his TD, but I'm still looking for Mills to take his job away for good.


You and me both. But did you see the play where they actually used Mills as an H back today?
That was pretty creative.
No wonder Bellicheat was p.o.'d when we scafed him up from their practice squad.

Mr-holland
09-21-2008, 06:08 PM
Even a broken clock is right twice a day

Purple Floyd
09-21-2008, 07:47 PM
"Mr-holland" wrote:


Even a broken clock is right twice a day


lol

Marrdro
09-21-2008, 08:14 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"HornedHat" wrote:


Yep. Shanks gets a little love back for his TD, but I'm still looking for Mills to take his job away for good.


You and me both. But did you see the play where they actually used Mills as an H back today?
That was pretty creative.
No wonder Bellicheat was p.o.'d when we scafed him up from their practice squad.

Some yutz on here really thought he would be listed/playing as a H-back/FB this year.
;D

As for the Shanc/Mills discussion, did my eyes decieve me or did he dropped just as many as Shanc did tonight without the same production as Shanc......
Gonna be hard to out play him with a night like that me thinks..........::)
;D

ejmat
09-21-2008, 08:23 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"HornedHat" wrote:


Yep. Shanks gets a little love back for his TD, but I'm still looking for Mills to take his job away for good.


You and me both. But did you see the play where they actually used Mills as an H back today?
That was pretty creative.
No wonder Bellicheat was p.o.'d when we scafed him up from their practice squad.

Some yutz on here really thought he would be listed/playing as a H-back/FB this year.

;D

As for the Shanc/Mills discussion, did my eyes decieve me or did he dropped just as many as Shanc did tonight without the same production as Shanc......

Gonna be hard to out play him with a night like that me thinks..........::)
;D


Seriously, what did Shank do that was so great?
He caught a ball that was put right in his gut.
He also dropped one (hit or no hit).
The guy does not impress me.
I could have caught that ball thrown by Gus and scored.
Mills is better than he is.
The only reason he is in is becasue of his salary right now.

Marrdro
09-21-2008, 08:25 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"HornedHat" wrote:


Yep. Shanks gets a little love back for his TD, but I'm still looking for Mills to take his job away for good.


You and me both. But did you see the play where they actually used Mills as an H back today?
That was pretty creative.
No wonder Bellicheat was p.o.'d when we scafed him up from their practice squad.

Some yutz on here really thought he would be listed/playing as a H-back/FB this year.

;D

As for the Shanc/Mills discussion, did my eyes decieve me or did he dropped just as many as Shanc did tonight without the same production as Shanc......

Gonna be hard to out play him with a night like that me thinks..........::)
;D


Seriously, what did Shank do that was so great?
He caught a ball that was put right in his gut.
He also dropped one (hit or no hit).
The guy does not impress me.
I could have caught that ball thrown by Gus and scored.
Mills is better than he is.
The only reason he is in is becasue of his salary right now.


Who was sticking up for Shanc my friend?
I was only making an observation that he outproduced golden boy Mills.
;D

VikingsTw
09-21-2008, 08:47 PM
I admitadly picked Shancoe to be a surprise and he has let me down at times but he continues to do things that I am impressed with. On the other hand I think Shancoe has an issue with simply holding on to the football, his hands are fine, catching the ball isn't the issue. I like that he is more fit and faster this season, I think he has a real chance to put up some numbers this season. His best games come from QB's other than Tarvaris Jackson, which are very few. Today he played well despite a great play from a Pro Bowl CB but I had a feeling he would make some plays with Frerotte. I really hope he can shake the mistakes and play up to his abiltiy because he does a fine job as a blocker and can become a very well rounded player.

ejmat
09-22-2008, 07:53 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"HornedHat" wrote:


Yep. Shanks gets a little love back for his TD, but I'm still looking for Mills to take his job away for good.


You and me both. But did you see the play where they actually used Mills as an H back today?
That was pretty creative.
No wonder Bellicheat was p.o.'d when we scafed him up from their practice squad.

Some yutz on here really thought he would be listed/playing as a H-back/FB this year.

;D

As for the Shanc/Mills discussion, did my eyes decieve me or did he dropped just as many as Shanc did tonight without the same production as Shanc......

Gonna be hard to out play him with a night like that me thinks..........::)
;D


Seriously, what did Shank do that was so great?
He caught a ball that was put right in his gut.
He also dropped one (hit or no hit).
The guy does not impress me.
I could have caught that ball thrown by Gus and scored.
Mills is better than he is.
The only reason he is in is becasue of his salary right now.


Who was sticking up for Shanc my friend?
I was only making an observation that he outproduced golden boy Mills.

;D


Sorry Marrdro.
I was really only making a point in general.
I wasn't stating anything against what you or anyone else stated.
It was more of an observation that related to what everyone was stating.
Sorry for the confusion my good friend.
;D

NordicNed
09-22-2008, 09:14 AM
I just don't see where the hate for Shank is coming from.
He has a great knack at finding the seem and getting seperation.
I've seen him make some great plays, from running nice sharp/crisp routes, to making fine catches.
Sure, he's dropped a few, and some have been tough catches that he's dropped.
I think we are only going to see improvement in Shank, and much better things to come from him.... Note: I"ve watched his blocking very close at times also, he's a solid blocker, who takes no crap.....I like this.

SKOL
09-22-2008, 09:20 AM
"NordicNed" wrote:


I just don't see where the hate for Shank is coming from.
He has a great knack at finding the seem and getting seperation.
I've seen him make some great plays, from running nice sharp/crisp routes, to making fine catches.

Sure, he's dropped a few, and some have been tough catches that he's dropped.
I think we are only going to see improvement in Shank, and much better things to come from him.... Note: I"ve watched his blocking very close at times also, he's a solid blocker, who takes no crap.....I like this.


We all have short memories of failures when someone makes a good play or two.
If, in the future, he concentrates on catching the ball he'll be a favorite here in no time.

AngloVike
09-22-2008, 09:22 AM
"NordicNed" wrote:


I just don't see where the hate for Shank is coming from.
He has a great knack at finding the seem and getting seperation.
I've seen him make some great plays, from running nice sharp/crisp routes, to making fine catches.

Sure, he's dropped a few, and some have been tough catches that he's dropped.
I think we are only going to see improvement in Shank, and much better things to come from him.... Note: I"ve watched his blocking very close at times also, he's a solid blocker, who takes no crap.....I like this.




I think the problem is that we paid a lot of money for, on current form, a very average TE. Was good to see him get that TD yesterday and I can't fault him for not hanging on when he was hit by the safety on an earlier pass - most receivers would have dropped that. Actually I was surprised that it wasn't called as a catch and fumble.
His main thing is consistency, he does have the route running going well but has failed to finish the play properly ie make the catch. If he can get to be more proficient on the catching side then he would guarantee keeping the starting TE job but personally I think that Mills is the better catcher but he doesn't have the same bulk as Shiancoe for pass blocking.

ejmat
09-22-2008, 09:31 AM
Shank does block pretty decent.
However, he has not caught the ball well.
He has a lot of drops vs his chances.
I'm sure ATJ is probably saying to himself, "Yeah you caught the TD pass this week.
If you would have caught it last week I'd still be the starter."
He just does not hold onto the ball very well.
That is where the hatred comes from.
I don't forget his good plays but I will admit I remember his bad plays more.
Problem is he has become the TE version of TWill.
That gets old after a while especially when their offense is strugglig so much.
You need receptions when the ball is there.

DustinDupont
09-22-2008, 02:24 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


Shank does block pretty decent.
However, he has not caught the ball well.
He has a lot of drops vs his chances.
I'm sure ATJ is probably saying to himself, "Yeah you caught the TD pass this week.
If you would have caught it last week I'd still be the starter."
He just does not hold onto the ball very well.
That is where the hatred comes from.
I don't forget his good plays but I will admit I remember his bad plays more.
Problem is he has become the TE version of TWill.
That gets old after a while especially when their offense is strugglig so much.
You need receptions when the ball is there.


+1 Did you see Gus and Tjack laughing after the shanco score, i bet Tjack said something like that

ejmat
09-22-2008, 02:43 PM
"DustinDupont" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


Shank does block pretty decent.
However, he has not caught the ball well.
He has a lot of drops vs his chances.
I'm sure ATJ is probably saying to himself, "Yeah you caught the TD pass this week.
If you would have caught it last week I'd still be the starter."
He just does not hold onto the ball very well.
That is where the hatred comes from.
I don't forget his good plays but I will admit I remember his bad plays more.
Problem is he has become the TE version of TWill.
That gets old after a while especially when their offense is strugglig so much.
You need receptions when the ball is there.


+1 Did you see Gus and Tjack laughing after the shanco score, i bet Tjack said something like that


I'm sure it was much worse than how I put it.
I'm sure there were a few vulgarities.

V-Unit
09-22-2008, 06:29 PM
The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank

VikingsTw
09-22-2008, 07:11 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


Shank does block pretty decent.
However, he has not caught the ball well.
He has a lot of drops vs his chances.
I'm sure ATJ is probably saying to himself, "Yeah you caught the TD pass this week.
If you would have caught it last week I'd still be the starter."
He just does not hold onto the ball very well.
That is where the hatred comes from.
I don't forget his good plays but I will admit I remember his bad plays more.
Problem is he has become the TE version of TWill.
That gets old after a while especially when their offense is strugglig so much.
You need receptions when the ball is there.


I've been hearing the Williamson comparison but really there is no comparison. Williamson couldn't catch the football, sometimes he couldn't even get his hands on the ball. Shancoes is catching just about everything thrown to him but the issue has been keeping ahold of it after somebody puts a hat on it or he hits the ground. The TD he dropped is unfortunate and I think the other major one was in the 49er game wich we won and had zero "Factor". The dropped TD in the Chiefs game simply wasn't a drop but a pass and catch from Mewelde Moore.

So far Shancoe has dropped 2 for sure TD's, he's had fumbles/incompletions at too high of rate early this season and the Redskin game everyone saw on TV last season didn't help matters either. There are 13 games left for Shancoe to prove he's a real TE and our TE for the future. I love the fact that Shancoe is versatle, he's much faster this season, he's in and out of his cuts and does a great job of blocking. I think this is where we get our money, he's a multi demensional player who is a threat but consistency remains to be the issue holding him back. If Shancoe wants to become as good as his ability allows he needs to climb the wall and get over it.

VikingsTw
09-22-2008, 07:16 PM
"V" wrote:


The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

Its only naturaul for anyone Biased against Shancoe to try take credit from him.

AKViking
09-22-2008, 07:31 PM
What do you call a TE that can't catch/hold on to the ball? .... a linebacker!

singersp
09-22-2008, 07:35 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

It's only natural for anyone biased against Shiancoe to try & take credit away from him.


+1

If he drops a pass that is a difficult or hard to catch, they blame him 100%, but when he does make a nice play he only gets 20% credit or nary a mention of it? LMAO!

tastywaves
09-22-2008, 07:35 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

Its only naturaul for anyone Biased against Shancoe to try take credit from him.


Shank had an opportunity to make a play and he made it.
He should get credit for that.
Had he dropped that pass he would be in Troy Williamson country.
For now, in my book, he gets another day to show if he can do it again.
I'm definitely not sold on this guy, but I'll give him a one week reprieve.
If he drops another big play, I think you'll see Gus steering away from him as well.

Also, on the earlier drop where he got rocked by the safety, I think he should have made that catch.
This is a TE vs a safety, good TE's come down with that catch, mass is on their side and is part of what they should expect although usually by LB'ers.

MaxVike
09-22-2008, 09:17 PM
Shiancoe has dropped multiple touchdown passes (3 or 4 depending on your view) in his first two years with our Vikes.
That, in and of itself, sucks.
However, he has shown ability to stretch the seam...that's great, but if you don't have ball skills, it's a moot point.
It is indisputable that he is not delivering against expectations, mine are moot, certainly the coaches expected more.
Now, you could certainly debate, and it could be justifiable, that TJack's progression limited Shiancoe's contribution

I will reserve '08 judgement until after the Tennessee game, because a big contribution from him is needed.
Shiancoe has the ability, I give Chilly the credit for recognizing and endorsing that, however, his body of work is not very impressive.


Just this year, he has cost us the Colts game (IMO) and followed that by a flash of his ability with the TD vs the Panthers, which, by the way, he should have caught.
Keep it up, we deserve good play.

ejmat
09-23-2008, 08:02 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

It's only natural for anyone biased against Shiancoe to try & take credit away from him.


+1

If he drops a pass that is a difficult or hard to catch, they blame him 100%, but when he does make a nice play he only gets 20% credit or nary a mention of it? LMAO!




The fact here is that he did catch the ball.
He does deserve the credit for making the play.
However, it wasn't a "nice" play.
It was a ball thrown right on the money and right in his gut.
In other words a play he should make.
You or I could have caught that.
He is getting hatred because of the passes he has droppped.
They are not anyone elses fault but his.
As a TE that gets paid what he gets paid he shouild be making the catches and holding onto the ball and he just hasn't been consistently.

V-Unit
09-24-2008, 11:57 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

It's only natural for anyone biased against Shiancoe to try & take credit away from him.


+1

If he drops a pass that is a difficult or hard to catch, they blame him 100%, but when he does make a nice play he only gets 20% credit or nary a mention of it? LMAO!




The fact here is that he did catch the ball.
He does deserve the credit for making the play.
However, it wasn't a "nice" play.
It was a ball thrown right on the money and right in his gut.
In other words a play he should make.
You or I could have caught that.
He is getting hatred because of the passes he has droppped.
They are not anyone elses fault but his.
As a TE that gets paid what he gets paid he shouild be making the catches and holding onto the ball and he just hasn't been consistently.


He ran straight down the field, and looked back in time. I guess I should give him credit for not falling down?

Frerotte saw the safety break late, and his throw was on the money, beating the safety and giving to his receiver on the run. TJ never even tries that pass.

When I see Shank make a great play (like hold on to the ball after a big hit maybe?) I assure you I'll give due credit.

I only give my favorites credit for routine plays. Shank is not one of them.

C Mac D
09-24-2008, 12:23 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

It's only natural for anyone biased against Shiancoe to try & take credit away from him.


+1

If he drops a pass that is a difficult or hard to catch, they blame him 100%, but when he does make a nice play he only gets 20% credit or nary a mention of it? LMAO!




Actually... yes... there wasn't a defender around him and no one touched him. He's paid millions to make catches like that, and it's the first TD he's caught in quite a while.

I think Kevin Seifert put it best:


2. Sorry, Visanthe Shiancoe. One touchdown catch -- on a play that no defender touched him -- does not mitigate four dropped scores in the past 19 games. Shiancoe dropped another (non-scoring) pass earlier in Sunday's game after a big hit. I understand he's absorbed some pretty violent hits over time. I don't expect a tight end to make acrobatic catches, but he should hold on when he collides with someone smaller than him. Don't know about you, but I cringe every time I see him running open down the middle of the field. What a tease.

tastywaves
09-24-2008, 12:31 PM
"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

It's only natural for anyone biased against Shiancoe to try & take credit away from him.


+1

If he drops a pass that is a difficult or hard to catch, they blame him 100%, but when he does make a nice play he only gets 20% credit or nary a mention of it? LMAO!




Actually... yes... there wasn't a defender around him and no one touched him. He's paid millions to make catches like that, and it's the first TD he's caught in quite a while.

I think Kevin Seifert put it best:


2. Sorry, Visanthe Shiancoe. One touchdown catch -- on a play that no defender touched him -- does not mitigate four dropped scores in the past 19 games. Shiancoe dropped another (non-scoring) pass earlier in Sunday's game after a big hit. I understand he's absorbed some pretty violent hits over time. I don't expect a tight end to make acrobatic catches, but he should hold on when he collides with someone smaller than him. Don't know about you, but I cringe every time I see him running open down the middle of the field. What a tease.


That is a nice summary from Siefert.

gagarr
09-24-2008, 12:41 PM
"tastywaves" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

It's only natural for anyone biased against Shiancoe to try & take credit away from him.


+1

If he drops a pass that is a difficult or hard to catch, they blame him 100%, but when he does make a nice play he only gets 20% credit or nary a mention of it? LMAO!




Actually... yes... there wasn't a defender around him and no one touched him. He's paid millions to make catches like that, and it's the first TD he's caught in quite a while.

I think Kevin Seifert put it best:


2. Sorry, Visanthe Shiancoe. One touchdown catch -- on a play that no defender touched him -- does not mitigate four dropped scores in the past 19 games. Shiancoe dropped another (non-scoring) pass earlier in Sunday's game after a big hit. I understand he's absorbed some pretty violent hits over time. I don't expect a tight end to make acrobatic catches, but he should hold on when he collides with someone smaller than him. Don't know about you, but I cringe every time I see him running open down the middle of the field. What a tease.


That is a nice summary from Siefert.


Agreed, Siefert sums Shank up pretty good.
If he makes 4 more TD catches and no drops in the next 6 games, then I'll start to give Shank some credit.
But you don't start getting credit, until you erase your debt.

dcboardr41
09-24-2008, 12:51 PM
the sad thing is in my yahoo fantasy league i had to pick up shank, i had Boss and Shockey, one on bye and one hurt, imma lose lol

ejmat
09-24-2008, 12:59 PM
"gagarr" wrote:


"tastywaves" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:




The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

It's only natural for anyone biased against Shiancoe to try & take credit away from him.


+1

If he drops a pass that is a difficult or hard to catch, they blame him 100%, but when he does make a nice play he only gets 20% credit or nary a mention of it? LMAO!




Actually... yes... there wasn't a defender around him and no one touched him. He's paid millions to make catches like that, and it's the first TD he's caught in quite a while.

I think Kevin Seifert put it best:


2. Sorry, Visanthe Shiancoe. One touchdown catch -- on a play that no defender touched him -- does not mitigate four dropped scores in the past 19 games. Shiancoe dropped another (non-scoring) pass earlier in Sunday's game after a big hit. I understand he's absorbed some pretty violent hits over time. I don't expect a tight end to make acrobatic catches, but he should hold on when he collides with someone smaller than him. Don't know about you, but I cringe every time I see him running open down the middle of the field. What a tease.


That is a nice summary from Siefert.


Agreed, Siefert sums Shank up pretty good.
If he makes 4 more TD catches and no drops in the next 6 games, then I'll start to give Shank some credit.
But you don't start getting credit, until you erase your debt.


I don't totally agree with everything Seifort states here.
Agreed that his 1 TD does not erase his drops.
However you cannot expect anyone to always hang onto the ball when they are hit by another humn being with a helmet and football pads regardless of the size.
There are several smaller people than Shiancoe that can put a licking on a person.
I don't fault him for that drop early in the game.
He was hit pretty hard.
However because of his history thus far it didn't help his cause for gaining love from Viking fans.

C Mac D
09-24-2008, 01:02 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


"tastywaves" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:






The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

It's only natural for anyone biased against Shiancoe to try & take credit away from him.


+1

If he drops a pass that is a difficult or hard to catch, they blame him 100%, but when he does make a nice play he only gets 20% credit or nary a mention of it? LMAO!




Actually... yes... there wasn't a defender around him and no one touched him. He's paid millions to make catches like that, and it's the first TD he's caught in quite a while.

I think Kevin Seifert put it best:


2. Sorry, Visanthe Shiancoe. One touchdown catch -- on a play that no defender touched him -- does not mitigate four dropped scores in the past 19 games. Shiancoe dropped another (non-scoring) pass earlier in Sunday's game after a big hit. I understand he's absorbed some pretty violent hits over time. I don't expect a tight end to make acrobatic catches, but he should hold on when he collides with someone smaller than him. Don't know about you, but I cringe every time I see him running open down the middle of the field. What a tease.


That is a nice summary from Siefert.


Agreed, Siefert sums Shank up pretty good.
If he makes 4 more TD catches and no drops in the next 6 games, then I'll start to give Shank some credit.
But you don't start getting credit, until you erase your debt.


I don't totally agree with everything Seifort states here.
Agreed that his 1 TD does not erase his drops.
However you cannot expect anyone to always hang onto the ball when they are hit by another humn being with a helmet and football pads regardless of the size.
There are several smaller people than Shiancoe that can put a licking on a person.
I don't fault him for that drop early in the game.
He was hit pretty hard.
However because of his history thus far it didn't help his cause for gaining love from Viking fans.


He's dropped 80% of TD's passed his way... not really sure why you're defending him.

He needs to earn his paycheck... and just because he caught this one TD with no defenders around him, I'd say the TD was only around 20% to his credit...

Which is what caused this convo in the first place.

He needs to earn his love from Vikings fans after blowing so many TDs for us.

Waste of money IMHO.

mountainviking
09-24-2008, 01:24 PM
I still think the KC one last year was a catch!
The one from TJ this year was good effort on a low pass.
Everybody drops passes.
TO is king of the dropped pass, but also 2nd in all time TDs.
I'm not saying Shank's been great by any means, just that some of you are a bit over the line harsh in your opinion of a guy who's only been with us 1.2 years with a young, inconsistent QB at the helm and too many oops I missed that blocks coming through the OL.

I expect better production from Shank and all our WRs this year due to the opened playbook/better routes, better OL play, better field vision/decision making from our QB, and overall familiarity with the schemes in general.
Last year, our only returning reciever was Williamson!
Doh!!

DustinDupont
09-24-2008, 01:32 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:


I still think the KC one last year was a catch!
The one from TJ this year was good effort on a low pass.
Everybody drops passes.
TO is king of the dropped pass, but also 2nd in all time TDs.
I'm not saying Shank's been great by any means, just that some of you are a bit over the line harsh in your opinion of a guy who's only been with us 1.2 years with a young, inconsistent QB at the helm and too many oops I missed that blocks coming through the OL.

I expect better production from Shank and all our WRs this year due to the opened playbook/better routes, better OL play, better field vision/decision making from our QB, and overall familiarity with the schemes in general.
Last year, our only returning reciever was Williamson!
Doh!!


The KC catch last year was not a catch, they showed a different angle on rosen's show and he dropped it. And if he uses hes hands instead his arms to catch the ball tjack threw to him, he would have caught it and it was a good pass. TO drops passes but hell catch 10 passes drop 1 shanco will drop 5 catch 1 haha im jk but it seems like that. But he has a lot of proven to do because vikings fans all over seem to be given up on him

ejmat
09-24-2008, 02:07 PM
"C" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


"tastywaves" wrote:


"C" wrote:








The Shank TD was 80% Gus and 20% Shank


I think its 50 50, Shacoe did his job, Frerotte did his job resulting in 100% sucess.

It's only natural for anyone biased against Shiancoe to try & take credit away from him.


+1

If he drops a pass that is a difficult or hard to catch, they blame him 100%, but when he does make a nice play he only gets 20% credit or nary a mention of it? LMAO!




Actually... yes... there wasn't a defender around him and no one touched him. He's paid millions to make catches like that, and it's the first TD he's caught in quite a while.

I think Kevin Seifert put it best:


2. Sorry, Visanthe Shiancoe. One touchdown catch -- on a play that no defender touched him -- does not mitigate four dropped scores in the past 19 games. Shiancoe dropped another (non-scoring) pass earlier in Sunday's game after a big hit. I understand he's absorbed some pretty violent hits over time. I don't expect a tight end to make acrobatic catches, but he should hold on when he collides with someone smaller than him. Don't know about you, but I cringe every time I see him running open down the middle of the field. What a tease.


That is a nice summary from Siefert.


Agreed, Siefert sums Shank up pretty good.
If he makes 4 more TD catches and no drops in the next 6 games, then I'll start to give Shank some credit.
But you don't start getting credit, until you erase your debt.


I don't totally agree with everything Seifort states here.
Agreed that his 1 TD does not erase his drops.
However you cannot expect anyone to always hang onto the ball when they are hit by another humn being with a helmet and football pads regardless of the size.
There are several smaller people than Shiancoe that can put a licking on a person.
I don't fault him for that drop early in the game.
He was hit pretty hard.
However because of his history thus far it didn't help his cause for gaining love from Viking fans.


He's dropped 80% of TD's passed his way... not really sure why you're defending him.

He needs to earn his paycheck... and just because he caught this one TD with no defenders around him, I'd say the TD was only around 20% to his credit...

Which is what caused this convo in the first place.

He needs to earn his love from Vikings fans after blowing so many TDs for us.

Waste of money IMHO.


There is a difference in trying to defend someone and having an open-mind about the occurences.
I, by no means will defend Shiancoe right now.
I am stating a fact.
Just because you are paid millions of dollars doesn't mean you are expected to hang onto a ball when making a catch and being clobbered by another person instantaniously.
Fair is fair here.
I do not think Shiancoe has earned his paycheck at all.
But don't be so close-minded as to think it is a given that any ball thrown will be caught.
A lot of WRs would have dropped the pass after being hit like he was.

I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

V4L
09-24-2008, 02:47 PM
Shanks in the man

Purple Floyd
09-24-2008, 03:23 PM
Shanks is the man

Zeus
09-24-2008, 03:25 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=

C Mac D
09-24-2008, 03:28 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=


Oh, I did read them... but they weren't relevant to the question at hand.

As I said in my prior post... the discussion was about Shank being 20% responsible for the TD vs. 50% responsible.

I simply stated that it was about 20% because he wasn't touched at all, it was a great throw and all he had to do was run.

If someone had laid a finger on him, he would have dropped it.



I chose not to respond... because, like Shank, I decided to drop it.

NodakPaul
09-24-2008, 03:35 PM
"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=


Oh, I did read them... but they weren't relevant to the question at hand.

As I said in my prior post... the discussion was about Shank being 20% responsible for the TD vs. 50% responsible.

I simply stated that it was about 20% because he wasn't touched at all, it was a great throw and all he had to do was run.

If someone had laid a finger on him, he would have dropped it.



I chose not to respond... because, like Shank, I decided to drop it.


LOL.

OK, that was funny.

DustinDupont
09-24-2008, 03:54 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=


Oh, I did read them... but they weren't relevant to the question at hand.

As I said in my prior post... the discussion was about Shank being 20% responsible for the TD vs. 50% responsible.

I simply stated that it was about 20% because he wasn't touched at all, it was a great throw and all he had to do was run.

If someone had laid a finger on him, he would have dropped it.



I chose not to respond... because, like Shank, I decided to drop it.


LOL.

OK, that was funny.


haha yeah that was really funny

V4L
09-24-2008, 04:06 PM
50 50

Thats all my friends

ejmat
09-24-2008, 04:28 PM
"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=


Oh, I did read them... but they weren't relevant to the question at hand.

As I said in my prior post... the discussion was about Shank being 20% responsible for the TD vs. 50% responsible.

I simply stated that it was about 20% because he wasn't touched at all, it was a great throw and all he had to do was run.

If someone had laid a finger on him, he would have dropped it.



I chose not to respond... because, like Shank, I decided to drop it.


I'm curious as to why you only quoted part of my reply.
That would tell the entire story.
You replied to me asking why I was defending him.
Here is your response: "He's dropped 80% of TD's passed his way... not really sure why you're defending him."


I stated I am in no way defending him per say and if you did read the rest of my posts you would have seen that.
I was defending any receiver that gets hit the same time as catching a ball regardless of the size of the person.
Therefore you took only half of my context and tried to make into something else.
Regardless of who it is they are in the NFL and there is a reason for it regardless of the size.


As far as % of who made the better play, I don't really care.
I'm just glad it was a TD
;D

My post was relevant to what everyone else was posting so I'm not sure why you are questioning the relevancy of everything else I stated.
Am I missing something?

BTW, that last statement was pretty funny.

bleedpurple
09-24-2008, 04:59 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=


Oh, I did read them... but they weren't relevant to the question at hand.

As I said in my prior post... the discussion was about Shank being 20% responsible for the TD vs. 50% responsible.

I simply stated that it was about 20% because he wasn't touched at all, it was a great throw and all he had to do was run.

If someone had laid a finger on him, he would have dropped it.



I chose not to respond... because, like Shank, I decided to drop it.


I'm curious as to why you only quoted part of my reply.
That would tell the entire story.
You replied to me asking why I was defending him.
Here is your response: "He's dropped 80% of TD's passed his way... not really sure why you're defending him."


I stated I am in no way defending him per say and if you did read the rest of my posts you would have seen that.
I was defending any receiver that gets hit the same time as catching a ball regardless of the size of the person.
Therefore you took only half of my context and tried to make into something else.
Regardless of who it is they are in the NFL and there is a reason for it regardless of the size.


As far as % of who made the better play, I don't really care.
I'm just glad it was a TD
;D

My post was relevant to what everyone else was posting so I'm not sure why you are questioning the relevancy of everything else I stated.
Am I missing something?

BTW, that last statement was pretty funny.



that last comment was funny!!!.... LOL... like shank i decided to drop it!!.. priceless!!!

V-Unit
09-24-2008, 05:55 PM
I'm so glad I started this.

C Mac D
09-24-2008, 06:06 PM
"V" wrote:


I'm so glad I started this.


Yeah, I thank you for this.

Still not sure why so many people like him... he's like the TE version of Troy Williamson... without all the TD's.




I crack myself up.

singersp
09-24-2008, 07:08 PM
"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=


Oh, I did read them... but they weren't relevant to the question at hand.

As I said in my prior post... the discussion was about Shank being 20% responsible for the TD vs. 50% responsible.

I simply stated that it was about 20% because he wasn't touched at all, it was a great throw and all he had to do was run.

If someone had laid a finger on him, he would have dropped it.



I chose not to respond... because, like Shank, I decided to drop it.


Looked more to me like Frerotte threw any easy pass to a wide open receiver.

80% Frerotte, 20% Shiancoe? LMFAO!

I'd bet if it was Jackson throwing that pass, you would claim;

20% Jackson, 80% Shiancoe
;)

The whole percentage thing is nothing more than bullshit & water cooler talk, IMO.

VikingsTw
09-24-2008, 07:09 PM
"C" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I'm so glad I started this.


Yeah, I thank you for this.

Still not sure why so many people like him... he's like the TE version of Troy Williamson... without all the TD's.




I crack myself up.


D@mit I thought I set that straight. How can Shancoe be compared to Troy when he is catching the footballs. Some may not want to call them completions but more or less the defender or the ground is causing him to loose the football. Troy Williamson couldn't even get his hands on some passess let alone catching them. Shancoes biggest issue is holding on the football after contact, I hope he can step it up and maybe get some breaks and Defenders won't be perfect when putting a hat on it. I think Shancoe needs to step up and start showing some tuffness but I'm not about to throw in the towel. His most productive games come from Holcomb and recently Frerotte. We have a long season ahead of us and he's got plenty to prove, the nice thing about Shancoe is he coninuely gets himself open and causes mis matches. Athleticaly he's a speciman, consistency will put him over the top.

If Shancoe is dropping passess like the people think he wouldn't be on the field period. Troy Williamson had some of the worst ball skills I have ever seen, Shancoe doens't belong in this category, sorry.

ejmat
09-24-2008, 07:32 PM
"C" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I'm so glad I started this.


Yeah, I thank you for this.

Still not sure why so many people like him... he's like the TE version of Troy Williamson... without all the TD's.




I crack myself up.


I think I said that in a different thread.
Or, it may have been this thread.


I speak for myself in that I wish him to do well (obviously since he is a VIking).
He just hasn't done much to be excited about.
Maybe this TD will turn things around for him.

ejmat
09-24-2008, 07:34 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=


Oh, I did read them... but they weren't relevant to the question at hand.

As I said in my prior post... the discussion was about Shank being 20% responsible for the TD vs. 50% responsible.

I simply stated that it was about 20% because he wasn't touched at all, it was a great throw and all he had to do was run.

If someone had laid a finger on him, he would have dropped it.



I chose not to respond... because, like Shank, I decided to drop it.


Looked more to me like Frerotte threw any easy pass to a wide open receiver.

80% Frerotte, 20% Shiancoe? LMFAO!

I'd bet if it was Jackson throwing that pass, you would claim;

20% Jackson, 80% Shiancoe
;)

The whole percentage thing is nothing more than bullshit & water cooler talk, IMO.


Agreed.
There is no way to put a % on this.
Let's just say Frerotte threw a good pass and Shiancoe caught it.
Can't get any more simple than that.
If Shiancoe starts catching and hanging onto more passes he can be considered a pretty good TE.
He does a pretty good job at blocking.
It's just hangiong onto the ball.

kevoncox
09-24-2008, 07:46 PM
Our Offense needs a slight overhaul.
TE needs be changed.
We should add/cut a couple of WRs to bring in some real talent
The FB position is a failure.
We should have kept a run blocking FB or TE

ultravikingfan
09-24-2008, 08:22 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Our Offense needs a slight overhaul.
TE needs be changed.
We should add/cut a couple of WRs to bring in some real talent
The FB position is a failure.
We should have kept a run blocking FB or TE


And when do you suggest getting all these good players?
The week after the Titans game?

Gift
09-24-2008, 10:01 PM
"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson

VikingsTw
09-24-2008, 10:34 PM
"Gift" wrote:


"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.

Gift
09-25-2008, 12:12 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:


"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.
You have a very well thought out post but I can promise you one thing, shanko is not the guy for the job you are describing.
The guy is a bum, we are way better off with Jimmy in there or maybe even mills.
Shanko has made one play, thats it!
He has not made many, many plays.

Webby
09-25-2008, 01:04 AM
We need more naked cheerleaders to motivate our Shankhoe.

I think that will help.


::)

Schutz
09-25-2008, 01:17 AM
"Webby" wrote:


We need more naked cheerleaders to motivate our Shankhoe.

I think that will help.


::)


Well it might motivate the fans.
;D

Redmption
09-25-2008, 01:19 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:


"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.


I agree. I even have to start him in my Fantasy League because both my TEs are on bye or injured and he was the best thing left. Doh!

jdvike
09-25-2008, 07:30 AM
"Redmption" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:


"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.


I agree. I even have to start him in my Fantasy League because both my TEs are on bye or injured and he was the best thing left. Doh!

Wow must be a huge league.

V-Unit
09-25-2008, 09:29 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I am not going to put a % on the ball he caught for a TD.
IMO Frerotte made a great pass and all Shiancoe did was catch the ball as well he should have.
You may want to read the rest of my posts in this thread prior to criticizing me for my statement my friend.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=


Oh, I did read them... but they weren't relevant to the question at hand.

As I said in my prior post... the discussion was about Shank being 20% responsible for the TD vs. 50% responsible.

I simply stated that it was about 20% because he wasn't touched at all, it was a great throw and all he had to do was run.

If someone had laid a finger on him, he would have dropped it.



I chose not to respond... because, like Shank, I decided to drop it.


Looked more to me like Frerotte threw any easy pass to a wide open receiver.

80% Frerotte, 20% Shiancoe? LMFAO!

I'd bet if it was Jackson throwing that pass, you would claim;

20% Jackson, 80% Shiancoe
;)
The whole percentage thing is nothing more than bullshit & water cooler talk, IMO.


My whole point is that Jackson would never throw, let alone make, that pass.

V-Unit
09-25-2008, 09:40 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:


"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.


The problem with Shank is not just about his drops. In general he is the equivalent to a Bobby Wade. Calling him multi-dimensional is rediculous. He is little more than a blocking TE, and IMO we target him way too much. What he gains from be able to play on all downs, he loses in his capacity in being able to hold onto the ball. Sure he didn't catch the TD, but IMO he shouldn't be the go to guy down there.

The Williamson comparisons are obviously stupid, but he is a worse blocker than Sauce, and a worse pass-catcher than Mills. Shank has marginal speed. Have we ever seen him burn an LB? No. I commend him for being a good role-player, but lets face it, he's an average TE. He should never be the primary target.

Again, what did he do on that play? He received a great pass and managed not to fall down. I'd give TJ more credit for throwing a good screen pass.

bleedpurple
09-25-2008, 01:02 PM
"V" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:


"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.


The problem with Shank is not just about his drops. In general he is the equivalent to a Bobby Wade. Calling him multi-dimensional is rediculous. He is little more than a blocking TE, and IMO we target him way too much. What he gains from be able to play on all downs, he loses in his capacity in being able to hold onto the ball. Sure he didn't catch the TD, but IMO he shouldn't be the go to guy down there.

The Williamson comparisons are obviously stupid, but he is a worse blocker than Sauce, and a worse pass-catcher than Mills. Shank has marginal speed. Have we ever seen him burn an LB? No. I commend him for being a good role-player, but lets face it, he's an average TE. He should never be the primary target.

Again, what did he do on that play? He received a great pass and managed not to fall down. I'd give TJ more credit for throwing a good screen pass.


actually shank is a good route runner and has shown an ability to get open.. the problem is when he gets open he does drop the ball... yes, mostly after contact either getting hit or going to the ground, plus, he has been known to fumble the ball quite often....

with that said, he's an above average blocker and is pretty athletic compared to other te's.. i understand why chilly brought him over here and i remember Shank making a few plays when Shockey was hurt witht he giants...

but yes, the TE is supposed to be the outlet especially for a young QB and frankly, gettin hit or not he needs to catch the ball...

and on the TD.. he made a simple catch where he was all by himself... Twill would have made that catch as well...

ejmat
09-25-2008, 03:16 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:


"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.


The problem with Shank is not just about his drops. In general he is the equivalent to a Bobby Wade. Calling him multi-dimensional is rediculous. He is little more than a blocking TE, and IMO we target him way too much. What he gains from be able to play on all downs, he loses in his capacity in being able to hold onto the ball. Sure he didn't catch the TD, but IMO he shouldn't be the go to guy down there.

The Williamson comparisons are obviously stupid, but he is a worse blocker than Sauce, and a worse pass-catcher than Mills. Shank has marginal speed. Have we ever seen him burn an LB? No. I commend him for being a good role-player, but lets face it, he's an average TE. He should never be the primary target.

Again, what did he do on that play? He received a great pass and managed not to fall down. I'd give TJ more credit for throwing a good screen pass.


actually shank is a good route runner and has shown an ability to get open.. the problem is when he gets open he does drop the ball... yes, mostly after contact either getting hit or going to the ground, plus, he has been known to fumble the ball quite often....

with that said, he's an above average blocker and is pretty athletic compared to other te's.. i understand why chilly brought him over here and i remember Shank making a few plays when Shockey was hurt witht he giants...

but yes, the TE is supposed to be the outlet especially for a young QB and frankly, gettin hit or not he needs to catch the ball...

and on the TD.. he made a simple catch where he was all by himself... Twill would have made that catch as well...

Are you sure about that?
Remember the Denver game last year?

bleedpurple
09-25-2008, 03:57 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:




Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.


The problem with Shank is not just about his drops. In general he is the equivalent to a Bobby Wade. Calling him multi-dimensional is rediculous. He is little more than a blocking TE, and IMO we target him way too much. What he gains from be able to play on all downs, he loses in his capacity in being able to hold onto the ball. Sure he didn't catch the TD, but IMO he shouldn't be the go to guy down there.

The Williamson comparisons are obviously stupid, but he is a worse blocker than Sauce, and a worse pass-catcher than Mills. Shank has marginal speed. Have we ever seen him burn an LB? No. I commend him for being a good role-player, but lets face it, he's an average TE. He should never be the primary target.

Again, what did he do on that play? He received a great pass and managed not to fall down. I'd give TJ more credit for throwing a good screen pass.


actually shank is a good route runner and has shown an ability to get open.. the problem is when he gets open he does drop the ball... yes, mostly after contact either getting hit or going to the ground, plus, he has been known to fumble the ball quite often....

with that said, he's an above average blocker and is pretty athletic compared to other te's.. i understand why chilly brought him over here and i remember Shank making a few plays when Shockey was hurt witht he giants...

but yes, the TE is supposed to be the outlet especially for a young QB and frankly, gettin hit or not he needs to catch the ball...

and on the TD.. he made a simple catch where he was all by himself... Twill would have made that catch as well...

Are you sure about that?
Remember the Denver game last year?



I know your not comparing the two!!.. that drop williamson had in denver although it was easy.. was over the shoulder... that catch that shank caught, was about as easy as they come!!..

carterAD5822
09-25-2008, 04:06 PM
how about we trade mckinnie and shiancoe for tony g

DustinDupont
09-25-2008, 04:09 PM
"carterAD5822" wrote:


how about we trade mckinnie and shiancoe for tony g


no way..

VikingsTw
09-25-2008, 04:17 PM
"V" wrote:


The problem with Shank is not just about his drops. In general he is the equivalent to a Bobby Wade. Calling him multi-dimensional is rediculous. He is little more than a blocking TE, and IMO we target him way too much. What he gains from be able to play on all downs, he loses in his capacity in being able to hold onto the ball. Sure he didn't catch the TD, but IMO he shouldn't be the go to guy down there.

The Williamson comparisons are obviously stupid, but he is a worse blocker than Sauce, and a worse pass-catcher than Mills. Shank has marginal speed. Have we ever seen him burn an LB? No. I commend him for being a good role-player, but lets face it, he's an average TE. He should never be the primary target.

Again, what did he do on that play? He received a great pass and managed not to fall down. I'd give TJ more credit for throwing a good screen pass.


Now here theres going to be disagreement no matter what, while Bobby is a good blocking WR he also works the zone coverages out of the slot very well. Athletically I think Wade lacks top end WR material but because he is so savy he makes a great target for a QB. I would never line Bobby up on the outside which is something we have been doing. Shancoe on the other hand basically has all the tools a top end TE would need. He's got good speed, he's quick off the line of scrimage and in out of cuts much faster that before. Blocking wise I've always liked what he's been able to do since the first game he had as a Viking, I think this is what stood out the most but shouldn't be the end. Shancoe is certainly a weapon down in the redzone, I think we will see more action out of him and Sidney Rice in Red Zone situations. Those are mismatch problems we bring to table to go along with an Oline that can punch it in on the ground.

Worse blocker than Sause doesn't say very much, especailly considering he's one of the best in the leauge. From my experience with Shancoe he's done a very good job for a blocking TE and he stays pretty consitent with that duty. The fumbles are another thing but I don't think now is the time to stop throwing it to him. Mostly just for the fact that he's been able to get open and has big play potential no matter how his skills are said to be. IMO Shancoe is above average TE in terms of ability and potential. You don't like him as a blocker, I do very much and I like his athleticism, size, speed, strength and quickness in the pass game. So in essence I'm trying to say I want to see more out Shancoe to find out if this fumble thing is a carear deal or something he will overcome. Time will tell and I too am very exited about Garrett Mills but not as a mini Tackle/TE, the dude weighs like 235 lb's he's not ready for Shancoe/Kliensasser type dutuies. He is a very athletic kid that like Shancoe is able to get open.

Shancoe simply did his job on the play, he beat the defense, got open, caught the football and ran into the endzone. Thanks to the Offensive Line for good protection and Frerotte with for a Veteran Pass. After all is said I still believe Shancoe is a Multi-Dimentional TE, I don't think there are many out there that can do what he can do on and off the line of scrimage. He just needs to be consistent in his duties but "if" he don't he could be next to Jackson on the pine.

VikingsTw
09-25-2008, 04:22 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


actually shank is a good route runner and has shown an ability to get open.. the problem is when he gets open he does drop the ball... yes, mostly after contact either getting hit or going to the ground, plus, he has been known to fumble the ball quite often....

with that said, he's an above average blocker and is pretty athletic compared to other te's.. i understand why chilly brought him over here and i remember Shank making a few plays when Shockey was hurt witht he giants...

but yes, the TE is supposed to be the outlet especially for a young QB and frankly, gettin hit or not he needs to catch the ball...

and on the TD.. he made a simple catch where he was all by himself... Twill would have made that catch as well...


I agree with most of what you said but I still don't think Troy was stable mentally. The last time I saw him in a Viking uniform was against the Broncos where he dropped a long TD strike with the defenders 12 yards behind him. Later on in the game Tarvaris rolled out left side and hit him in the chest with a pass and it fell to the ground. This was a drive killer at the end of the game in a clutch situation, he was wide open in the middle of the field and couldn't come through. Not only the pressure of the game was on his shoulders but possibly his Viking carear.

V-Unit
09-25-2008, 05:12 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The problem with Shank is not just about his drops. In general he is the equivalent to a Bobby Wade. Calling him multi-dimensional is rediculous. He is little more than a blocking TE, and IMO we target him way too much. What he gains from be able to play on all downs, he loses in his capacity in being able to hold onto the ball. Sure he didn't catch the TD, but IMO he shouldn't be the go to guy down there.

The Williamson comparisons are obviously stupid, but he is a worse blocker than Sauce, and a worse pass-catcher than Mills. Shank has marginal speed. Have we ever seen him burn an LB? No. I commend him for being a good role-player, but lets face it, he's an average TE. He should never be the primary target.

Again, what did he do on that play? He received a great pass and managed not to fall down. I'd give TJ more credit for throwing a good screen pass.


Now here theres going to be disagreement no matter what, while Bobby is a good blocking WR he also works the zone coverages out of the slot very well. Athletically I think Wade lacks top end WR material but because he is so savy he makes a great target for a QB. I would never line Bobby up on the outside which is something we have been doing. Shancoe on the other hand basically has all the tools a top end TE would need. He's got good speed, he's quick off the line of scrimage and in out of cuts much faster that before. Blocking wise I've always liked what he's been able to do since the first game he had as a Viking, I think this is what stood out the most but shouldn't be the end. Shancoe is certainly a weapon down in the redzone, I think we will see more action out of him and Sidney Rice in Red Zone situations. Those are mismatch problems we bring to table to go along with an Oline that can punch it in on the ground.

Worse blocker than Sause doesn't say very much, especailly considering he's one of the best in the leauge. From my experience with Shancoe he's done a very good job for a blocking TE and he stays pretty consitent with that duty. The fumbles are another thing but I don't think now is the time to stop throwing it to him. Mostly just for the fact that he's been able to get open and has big play potential no matter how his skills are said to be. IMO Shancoe is above average TE in terms of ability and potential. You don't like him as a blocker, I do very much and I like his athleticism, size, speed, strength and quickness in the pass game. So in essence I'm trying to say I want to see more out Shancoe to find out if this fumble thing is a carear deal or something he will overcome. Time will tell and I too am very exited about Garrett Mills but not as a mini Tackle/TE, the dude weighs like 235 lb's he's not ready for Shancoe/Kliensasser type dutuies. He is a very athletic kid that like Shancoe is able to get open.

Shancoe simply did his job on the play, he beat the defense, got open, caught the football and ran into the endzone. Thanks to the Offensive Line for good protection and Frerotte with for a Veteran Pass. After all is said I still believe Shancoe is a Multi-Dimentional TE, I don't think there are many out there that can do what he can do on and off the line of scrimage. He just needs to be consistent in his duties but "if" he don't he could be next to Jackson on the pine.


To keep on using Shank in the red zone is stupid. He has not made the plays when given the chance. Rice and Wade I like down there. Not Shank.

At some point the offense is going to become more dynamic. Our blocking has been fine, if not great this year. It's time to put in the Mills/Shank combo in for two TE sets. Stick Sauce as FB.

As far as the play. Shank didn't beat pooh for defense. There was no one for him to beat. Only a safety who the QB had to beat. Getting open on that play was as simple as running straight forward. I'm not saying he didn't do a good job, just saying he didn't do much. I think there are a ton of TEs who do what Shank does. He is an average TE. I don'y know how many times I have to say that. He is comparable to a Chris Baker,LJ Smith, and Desmond Clark. Capable of a big play, but can't be counted on for one.

PackSux!
09-25-2008, 06:24 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:






Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.


The problem with Shank is not just about his drops. In general he is the equivalent to a Bobby Wade. Calling him multi-dimensional is rediculous. He is little more than a blocking TE, and IMO we target him way too much. What he gains from be able to play on all downs, he loses in his capacity in being able to hold onto the ball. Sure he didn't catch the TD, but IMO he shouldn't be the go to guy down there.

The Williamson comparisons are obviously stupid, but he is a worse blocker than Sauce, and a worse pass-catcher than Mills. Shank has marginal speed. Have we ever seen him burn an LB? No. I commend him for being a good role-player, but lets face it, he's an average TE. He should never be the primary target.

Again, what did he do on that play? He received a great pass and managed not to fall down. I'd give TJ more credit for throwing a good screen pass.


actually shank is a good route runner and has shown an ability to get open.. the problem is when he gets open he does drop the ball... yes, mostly after contact either getting hit or going to the ground, plus, he has been known to fumble the ball quite often....

with that said, he's an above average blocker and is pretty athletic compared to other te's.. i understand why chilly brought him over here and i remember Shank making a few plays when Shockey was hurt witht he giants...

but yes, the TE is supposed to be the outlet especially for a young QB and frankly, gettin hit or not he needs to catch the ball...

and on the TD.. he made a simple catch where he was all by himself... Twill would have made that catch as well...

Are you sure about that?
Remember the Denver game last year?



I know your not comparing the two!!.. that drop williamson had in denver although it was easy.. was over the shoulder... that catch that shank caught, was about as easy as they come!!..


How about the other one that hit him in the numbers?

ejmat
09-25-2008, 07:12 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:






Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.


The problem with Shank is not just about his drops. In general he is the equivalent to a Bobby Wade. Calling him multi-dimensional is rediculous. He is little more than a blocking TE, and IMO we target him way too much. What he gains from be able to play on all downs, he loses in his capacity in being able to hold onto the ball. Sure he didn't catch the TD, but IMO he shouldn't be the go to guy down there.

The Williamson comparisons are obviously stupid, but he is a worse blocker than Sauce, and a worse pass-catcher than Mills. Shank has marginal speed. Have we ever seen him burn an LB? No. I commend him for being a good role-player, but lets face it, he's an average TE. He should never be the primary target.

Again, what did he do on that play? He received a great pass and managed not to fall down. I'd give TJ more credit for throwing a good screen pass.


actually shank is a good route runner and has shown an ability to get open.. the problem is when he gets open he does drop the ball... yes, mostly after contact either getting hit or going to the ground, plus, he has been known to fumble the ball quite often....

with that said, he's an above average blocker and is pretty athletic compared to other te's.. i understand why chilly brought him over here and i remember Shank making a few plays when Shockey was hurt witht he giants...

but yes, the TE is supposed to be the outlet especially for a young QB and frankly, gettin hit or not he needs to catch the ball...

and on the TD.. he made a simple catch where he was all by himself... Twill would have made that catch as well...

Are you sure about that?
Remember the Denver game last year?



I know your not comparing the two!!.. that drop williamson had in denver although it was easy.. was over the shoulder... that catch that shank caught, was about as easy as they come!!..


It was extremely easy for a WR chosen in the 1st round (7th pick overall).
He dropped many easy passes.
What about the 3rd down pass the very next set of downs after the bomb you are referring to.
Remember the one that hit him in the gut?

jessejames09
09-25-2008, 07:31 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"V" wrote:








Being a UK fan we don't get to see the Vikes play on TV that often but I am curious as to why Shiancoe is considered such a bad player with most of the critisiscm coming from the game this weekend.

I honestly didn't think that pass was all that catchable, admittedly I have never played the game at any level and I am willing to bow to those with a much greater knowledge of the game than me (if you want to talk rugby I'll reciprocate).

I think a lot of decent WRs would have struggled to catch that ball.

Appreciate comments


To answer your question, I don't care for shanko because:
1.) he drops %50 of the passes sent his way
2.) he has been doing it for like 3 years
3.) he makes sure the ones he drops are in clutch situation (endzone, 3rd down etc...)
4.) he gets payed way too much
5.) We got rid of Wiggins to get him, wiggins had great "clutch" hands
6.) I hate him
7.) he is the "new" Troy Williamson



This is when I know my opinion is re-enforced. Here's a post that exists major overstatements because of his biased opinion. 50% of the passess is quite out there, or how about 3 years, thats more like 1.2 years... Although I can agree he has had drops thats for certain, but I'm not pulling any money out of Shancoe's payckeck. We would all like to see consitent production out of the passing game but he's a Multi Dementional TE thats a very good blocker much like Jimmy Kliensasser who is paid very well. And again Troy Williamson is in a league of his own, he would never drop a pass one play then come back and catch 31 Yard TD like Shancoe did. You have to understand the system that we run and why we got rid of Wiggins because he was one dimensonal, a great pass catcher with absolutly no blocking ability or speed to get down the seem like Shancoe can. We run a smath mouth style of offense our TE's have to be good blockers. #6 Says it all period.

So in the end of this Shancoe Saga we will find out if he can take a hit and hold on to the ball. Its more like fumbling IMO, the comparison would be much more in the likes of Ahman Green. When I see Shancoe dropping passess like Williamson I'll give all the glory to Shancoe Haters. Untill then I think Shancoe will be making some palys with his new QB.


The problem with Shank is not just about his drops. In general he is the equivalent to a Bobby Wade. Calling him multi-dimensional is rediculous. He is little more than a blocking TE, and IMO we target him way too much. What he gains from be able to play on all downs, he loses in his capacity in being able to hold onto the ball. Sure he didn't catch the TD, but IMO he shouldn't be the go to guy down there.

The Williamson comparisons are obviously stupid, but he is a worse blocker than Sauce, and a worse pass-catcher than Mills. Shank has marginal speed. Have we ever seen him burn an LB? No. I commend him for being a good role-player, but lets face it, he's an average TE. He should never be the primary target.

Again, what did he do on that play? He received a great pass and managed not to fall down. I'd give TJ more credit for throwing a good screen pass.


actually shank is a good route runner and has shown an ability to get open.. the problem is when he gets open he does drop the ball... yes, mostly after contact either getting hit or going to the ground, plus, he has been known to fumble the ball quite often....

with that said, he's an above average blocker and is pretty athletic compared to other te's.. i understand why chilly brought him over here and i remember Shank making a few plays when Shockey was hurt witht he giants...

but yes, the TE is supposed to be the outlet especially for a young QB and frankly, gettin hit or not he needs to catch the ball...

and on the TD.. he made a simple catch where he was all by himself... Twill would have made that catch as well...

Are you sure about that?
Remember the Denver game last year?



I know your not comparing the two!!.. that drop williamson had in denver although it was easy.. was over the shoulder... that catch that shank caught, was about as easy as they come!!..


It was extremely easy for a WR chosen in the 1st round (7th pick overall).
He dropped many easy passes.
What about the 3rd down pass the very next set of downs after the bomb you are referring to.
Remember the one that hit him in the gut?



I'm a 180 pound white dude, and have better hands than Troy Williamson. In fact I had better hands then him when I was 12. There should be no discussion of his ability to catch.

Shank has issues for sure but who can we get this season that can block as well as him and catch better? Remember, Gonzalez is a distant dream, not an option. Blocking seems to be most important thing about a TE for our team. The difference I see between them is Shank has shown some ability, sadly enough. Troy didn't catch many balls and have it bounce out when he hit the ground, or catch a ball and take a big hit and drop it. Troy flat out got hit in the helmet and chest, or lost the ball completely, like a lazy Randy Moss.

What I hope we do is continue to give Mills more plays. As either fullback, tight-end, or in the slot occasionally, he's already proven to be our best TE down the feild.

singersp
10-19-2008, 02:42 PM
[]

Marrdro
10-19-2008, 02:42 PM
[]

singersp
10-19-2008, 02:45 PM
[]

BadlandsVikings
10-19-2008, 03:21 PM
[]

singersp
10-19-2008, 04:17 PM
[]

ultravikingfan
10-19-2008, 04:22 PM
[]

huxx
10-19-2008, 04:25 PM
[]

VikingsTw
10-19-2008, 04:25 PM
[]

Marrdro
10-19-2008, 04:30 PM
[]

marstc09
10-19-2008, 08:51 PM
[]

singersp
10-19-2008, 09:00 PM
[]

V-Unit
10-19-2008, 10:14 PM
[]

NodakPaul
10-19-2008, 10:17 PM
[]

singersp
10-19-2008, 10:28 PM
[]

singersp
10-19-2008, 10:30 PM
[]

V4L
10-19-2008, 10:34 PM
[]

midgensa
10-19-2008, 10:46 PM
[]

V-Unit
10-20-2008, 12:28 AM
[]

midgensa
10-20-2008, 12:36 AM
[]

Ranger
10-20-2008, 07:43 AM
[]

ragz
10-20-2008, 07:58 AM
[]

Mark_The_Viking
10-20-2008, 08:54 AM
I think he is becoming a big positive in this season of negatives. Watched the game yesterday and overall was encouraged

ejmat
10-20-2008, 08:56 AM
Shank has been stepping up of late.
I think that's great.
Hopefully he will continue this upward trend.
I'm not ready to eat crow just yet.
The rest of the year will tell whether or not I have to get the chops ready.

V-Unit
10-20-2008, 09:38 AM
"midgensa" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


Oh please, I have been calling Shank an average TE since day one. He is not playing great, he's playing well, and overall he's average. To call for crow eating, even to those who said he outright sucks, is a bit premature.

As far as the money goes, I have also said all along the Shank is overpaid, and many have the same stance because it's basically fact. He's overpaid. I don't blame him at all for that.

Performance obviously does not go up based on salary, but fans have every right to expect great things from highly paid players. That definitely includes Allen. He led the league in sacks despite missing two games, and got a huge raise. I definitely him to lead the league again, or at least finish top 3. However, when it comes to Shank, my stance has always been, don't expect him to live up to his contract.

The bottomline is play on the field, and I honestly see nothing more than average TE. Guess what he did on his TD? The same thing on his TD vs. Carolina. Ran straight down the field. Frerotte threw an absolute strike. I give Shank credit for being able to run, and catching it.

I again reiterate that his contract is not that big of a deal. He is the second highest paid on this team ... so should we start bashing Jimmy K? And he is the 12th highest paid in the league. He is producing fairly well this season and has become a solid target with Gus and has averaged 35 + yards and .6 TDs per game. That translates to 570 yards and 9-10 TDs over the course of a season ... pretty good numbers. I would say those numbers are somewhere in the area of the 12th highest paid TE in the league.


Yes, we should be seriously questioning Jimmy K's contract. The FO should have tried to restructure it a long time ago.

Ranger
10-20-2008, 09:46 AM
"V" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


Oh please, I have been calling Shank an average TE since day one. He is not playing great, he's playing well, and overall he's average. To call for crow eating, even to those who said he outright sucks, is a bit premature.

As far as the money goes, I have also said all along the Shank is overpaid, and many have the same stance because it's basically fact. He's overpaid. I don't blame him at all for that.

Performance obviously does not go up based on salary, but fans have every right to expect great things from highly paid players. That definitely includes Allen. He led the league in sacks despite missing two games, and got a huge raise. I definitely him to lead the league again, or at least finish top 3. However, when it comes to Shank, my stance has always been, don't expect him to live up to his contract.

The bottomline is play on the field, and I honestly see nothing more than average TE. Guess what he did on his TD? The same thing on his TD vs. Carolina. Ran straight down the field. Frerotte threw an absolute strike. I give Shank credit for being able to run, and catching it.

I again reiterate that his contract is not that big of a deal. He is the second highest paid on this team ... so should we start bashing Jimmy K? And he is the 12th highest paid in the league. He is producing fairly well this season and has become a solid target with Gus and has averaged 35 + yards and .6 TDs per game. That translates to 570 yards and 9-10 TDs over the course of a season ... pretty good numbers. I would say those numbers are somewhere in the area of the 12th highest paid TE in the league.


Yes, we should be seriously questioning Jimmy K's contract. The FO should have tried to restructure it a long time ago.


I can't understand the lack of use for big Jim.
He can play fullback or tight end, is an outstanding blocker and has underrated hands.
I mean, a big 'ole hoss like that has a place in the offense, and that's either helping Cook block somebody (pass rushing defensive end or outside linebacker, or even some retarded kid who wandered onto the field) or mauling the first fool who attempts to touch Purple Jesus.

alexfandrich
10-20-2008, 12:24 PM
ya where did he come from? makin all those plays yesterday, where was that earlier in the year when we needed him? but if he plays like this all the games then we got a good t.e

jargomcfargo
10-20-2008, 12:50 PM
"singersp" wrote:


It's ready! Come & get it!

http://johncarmichaels.typepad.com/carmichaels_position/WindowsLiveWriter/Eat%20Crow.jpg


I was thinking of you yesterday when he was making those plays. Somehow *I knew you would be serving up a little crow today.
I will gladly have some.
I hope he continues to perform like that.
Wonder why it took so long? Must have been the quarterback, huh?

ejmat
10-20-2008, 12:51 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


It's ready! Come & get it!

http://johncarmichaels.typepad.com/carmichaels_position/WindowsLiveWriter/Eat%20Crow.jpg


I was thinking of you yesterday when he was making those plays. Somehow *I knew you would be serving up a little crow today.
I will gladly have some.
I hope he continues to perform like that.
Wonder why it took so long? Must have been the quarterback, huh?


I think it's the scheme.
LOL

DustinDupont
10-20-2008, 01:17 PM
Shiancoe has been playing a lot better, but he needs to catch the ball with his hands!!! he always lets the ball come to his body

AngloVike
10-20-2008, 02:52 PM
I've been of those who has whined and bitched about Shiancoe and his hands of granite this season. However I'll be happy to acknowledge that he played a good game yesterday and made some good catches. I'm not ready to dub him as a Pro-Bowl TE as he still has room to improve his technique but he's finally starting to learn that catches do matter.

singersp
10-20-2008, 07:16 PM
"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.

MaxVike
10-20-2008, 07:26 PM
Here's an objective assessment from Draftsharks.com (a great service for Fantasy Football I highly recommend).
They recommend picking him up in 10-12 Team leagues.

"** Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe: He caught 4 passes for 68 yards and 1 TD vs. Chicago. He’s now scored in 3 of his last 5 games, and is showing the talent that earned him a big contract with $7 million guaranteed last year. Shiancoe outruns linebackers and outleaps safeties. If Gus Frerotte hadn’t overthrown him at Tennessee last month, Shiancoe would have 4 TDs in his last 5 games."

I tried to reserve judgement until after the first 4 games and was pretty pissed after the second and third games.
He appears to be turning it around.

V-Unit
10-20-2008, 10:47 PM
"MaxVike" wrote:


Here's an objective assessment from Draftsharks.com (a great service for Fantasy Football I highly recommend).
They recommend picking him up in 10-12 Team leagues.

"** Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe: He caught 4 passes for 68 yards and 1 TD vs. Chicago. He’s now scored in 3 of his last 5 games, and is showing the talent that earned him a big contract with $7 million guaranteed last year. Shiancoe outruns linebackers and outleaps safeties. If Gus Frerotte hadn’t overthrown him at Tennessee last month, Shiancoe would have 4 TDs in his last 5 games."

I tried to reserve judgement until after the first 4 games and was pretty pissed after the second and third games.
He appears to be turning it around.


He outleaps safeties?

Lmao.

gregair13
10-20-2008, 11:50 PM
Finally doing his job.

Ranger
10-21-2008, 03:10 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a shitty guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a shitty backup.

Marrdro
10-21-2008, 06:27 AM
"V" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


Here's an objective assessment from Draftsharks.com (a great service for Fantasy Football I highly recommend).
They recommend picking him up in 10-12 Team leagues.

"** Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe: He caught 4 passes for 68 yards and 1 TD vs. Chicago. He’s now scored in 3 of his last 5 games, and is showing the talent that earned him a big contract with $7 million guaranteed last year. Shiancoe outruns linebackers and outleaps safeties. If Gus Frerotte hadn’t overthrown him at Tennessee last month, Shiancoe would have 4 TDs in his last 5 games."

I tried to reserve judgement until after the first 4 games and was pretty pissed after the second and third games.
He appears to be turning it around.


He outleaps safeties?

Lmao.

When a TE out runs a LB (as the scheme dictates) he is often left matched up against a Safety my friend, and when that happens the ability to out jump said Safety is a good thing wouldn't you think?

singersp
10-21-2008, 07:07 AM
"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a shitty guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a shitty backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.

Marrdro
10-21-2008, 07:18 AM
"singersp" wrote:


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


Excellent post my friend.
Excellent indeed.
Morning by the way.
;D

ragz
10-21-2008, 08:03 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


Excellent post my friend.
Excellent indeed.
Morning by the way.
;D

well if you think about what daniel grahm got paid that same year, shank has been a steal.
but pay isn't so much always based on what you've done, cuz with a case like shank they saw alot of potential so probably more money was paid than what his career had warranted.
same could be said for berrian.
young guy, who has gotten better each year and then gets a contract making him one of the better paid wrs.
as usual with alot of our players, its hard to honestly judge them as a whole becuz we really dont know what the schemes are asking them to do and how much of a target they are.
we've been so piss poor whos to say that these guys suck, or the whole thing just sucked so he wasn't able to show all he can do.
i think thats why we are seeing more and more becuz they are doing more, and asking more of shank and he is now stepping up to the challenge.
in the past he got very few oppurtunties and was blowing them.
but still very few.

ThorSPL
10-21-2008, 10:01 AM
How much did D.G. get paid??

Ranger
10-21-2008, 12:05 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:




2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

V4L
10-21-2008, 12:53 PM
The only reason Shank is getting what he is.. Which is only like 12th highest this year.. About where I would put him

Is supply and demand

Simple as that

Billy Boy
10-21-2008, 01:28 PM
"Ranger" wrote:


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.


Well, Shiancoe is 2nd among TE's in TD's, behind someone who was a power forward in college. They should be paying him more.


Stats mean nothing.
I wonder what Shiancoe's stats would be if he was in the Dallas Cowboy's offense.
Thank God coaches grade on skill and not stats.

ejmat
10-21-2008, 01:31 PM
"Billy" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.


Well, Shiancoe is 2nd among TE's in TD's, behind someone who was a power forward in college. They should be paying him more.


Stats mean nothing.
I wonder what Shiancoe's stats would be if he was in the Dallas Cowboy's offense.
Thank God coaches grade on skill and not stats.


Wow.
We are going to bring the sheme into this thread now.
How about the two or so TD's he dropped just this year?
Would he have caught them if he were a member of the Cowboys?

V4L
10-21-2008, 01:33 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"Billy" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.


Well, Shiancoe is 2nd among TE's in TD's, behind someone who was a power forward in college. They should be paying him more.


Stats mean nothing.
I wonder what Shiancoe's stats would be if he was in the Dallas Cowboy's offense.
Thank God coaches grade on skill and not stats.


Wow.
We are going to bring the sheme into this thread now.
How about the two or so TD's he dropped just this year?
Would he have caught them if he were a member of the Cowboys?




No but he would have more balls thrown his way increasing his receptions and yards

ejmat
10-21-2008, 01:34 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"Billy" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.


Well, Shiancoe is 2nd among TE's in TD's, behind someone who was a power forward in college. They should be paying him more.


Stats mean nothing.
I wonder what Shiancoe's stats would be if he was in the Dallas Cowboy's offense.
Thank God coaches grade on skill and not stats.


Wow.
We are going to bring the sheme into this thread now.
How about the two or so TD's he dropped just this year?
Would he have caught them if he were a member of the Cowboys?




No but he would have more balls thrown his way increasing his receptions and yards




Maybe so but there is no way to prove this point.
Romo throws to Whitten because he is consistent in catching passes.
Do you think there is a slight chance Shiancoe had less balls thrown his way because he was consistently dropping or fumbling?

V4L
10-21-2008, 01:36 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"Billy" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.


Well, Shiancoe is 2nd among TE's in TD's, behind someone who was a power forward in college. They should be paying him more.


Stats mean nothing.
I wonder what Shiancoe's stats would be if he was in the Dallas Cowboy's offense.
Thank God coaches grade on skill and not stats.


Wow.
We are going to bring the sheme into this thread now.
How about the two or so TD's he dropped just this year?
Would he have caught them if he were a member of the Cowboys?




No but he would have more balls thrown his way increasing his receptions and yards




Maybe so but there is no way to prove this point.
Romo throws to Whitten because he is consistent in catching passes.
Do you think there is a slight chance Shiancoe had less balls thrown his way because he was consistently dropping or fumbling?



Well considering our leading WR and best pass catching threat has his share of drops but still gets thrown to alot I don't think that plays into it

I think we just don't use our TE's often

Shank the last 3-4 games has caught every single ball thrown his way, which hasn't been many but he is making the catches

Ranger
10-21-2008, 01:37 PM
Hahaha!
Yeah, VS is just as good as a certain tight end from the cowboys.
And if TJack played for the Cowboys, he'd be just as good as Romo.
Good call, bud.

V4L
10-21-2008, 01:38 PM
"Ranger" wrote:


Hahaha!
Yeah, VS is just as good as a certain tight end from the cowboys.
And if TJack played for the Cowboys, he'd be just as good as Romo.
Good call, bud.



Horrible post

He never said anything about our players being as good as thiers

And Jackson isn't even playing by the way

He was just saying if Shank was in a better system, he could have better stats because he would have more balls thrown his way

ejmat
10-21-2008, 01:43 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"Billy" wrote:




I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.


Well, Shiancoe is 2nd among TE's in TD's, behind someone who was a power forward in college. They should be paying him more.


Stats mean nothing.
I wonder what Shiancoe's stats would be if he was in the Dallas Cowboy's offense.
Thank God coaches grade on skill and not stats.


Wow.
We are going to bring the sheme into this thread now.
How about the two or so TD's he dropped just this year?
Would he have caught them if he were a member of the Cowboys?




No but he would have more balls thrown his way increasing his receptions and yards




Maybe so but there is no way to prove this point.
Romo throws to Whitten because he is consistent in catching passes.
Do you think there is a slight chance Shiancoe had less balls thrown his way because he was consistently dropping or fumbling?



Well considering our leading WR and best pass catching threat has his share of drops but still gets thrown to alot I don't think that plays into it

I think we just don't use our TE's often

Shank the last 3-4 games has caught every single ball thrown his way, which hasn't been many but he is making the catches




I think what really plays into it is what you said.
We don't use our TE a lot over our WRs.
Frerrote likes to throw down field first and check down to the TE.
Notice that Shank's passes lately have been a little further down field rather than a few dinks.

bleedpurple
10-21-2008, 03:58 PM
i will eat crow for the last 3 weeks on Shank!!... but he has a long way to go to make up for some of those drops last year and early this year.. so i'm still ahead in that department!

midgensa
10-21-2008, 04:08 PM
"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:






2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.

Marrdro
10-21-2008, 04:28 PM
"midgensa" wrote:


Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.

Go get some my friend.
;D

Great post.

V-Unit
10-21-2008, 05:59 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


Here's an objective assessment from Draftsharks.com (a great service for Fantasy Football I highly recommend).
They recommend picking him up in 10-12 Team leagues.

"** Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe: He caught 4 passes for 68 yards and 1 TD vs. Chicago. He’s now scored in 3 of his last 5 games, and is showing the talent that earned him a big contract with $7 million guaranteed last year. Shiancoe outruns linebackers and outleaps safeties. If Gus Frerotte hadn’t overthrown him at Tennessee last month, Shiancoe would have 4 TDs in his last 5 games."

I tried to reserve judgement until after the first 4 games and was pretty pissed after the second and third games.
He appears to be turning it around.


He outleaps safeties?

Lmao.

When a TE out runs a LB (as the scheme dictates) he is often left matched up against a Safety my friend, and when that happens the ability to out jump said Safety is a good thing wouldn't you think?


I'm not debating that. I'm debating whether I have ever seen Shank outleap a safety.

So anyways, I concede. Shank is playing up to his expectations, and his salary. All three are average.

But also realize that you have come a long way from your initial view on Shank. You said he was a young marvel who was going to stretch the offense! In reality he's an average TE who has only recently become a dependable option for his QB.

SamOchoCinco
10-21-2008, 06:12 PM
i still dont like this guyyyyy

Ranger
10-21-2008, 06:46 PM
"midgensa" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:








2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.


How was his salary last year?

midgensa
10-21-2008, 07:25 PM
"Ranger" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:










2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.


How was his salary last year?


Why does he salary last year even matter? It is this year.
I mean seriously? We are going to pick and choose random years for him to live up to his salary? If you want him to "live" up to what he is paid ... it is simple ... he is the 12th highest paid TE. If it was higher last year so be it. That is last year ... has really little relevance to whether he is living up to his value this season.

V-Unit
10-21-2008, 07:56 PM
"midgensa" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:












2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.


How was his salary last year?


Why does he salary last year even matter? It is this year.
I mean seriously? We are going to pick and choose random years for him to live up to his salary? If you want him to "live" up to what he is paid ... it is simple ... he is the 12th highest paid TE. If it was higher last year so be it. That is last year ... has really little relevance to whether he is living up to his value this season.


Just say it.

Shank has not lived up to his value until this year.

He salary is decreasing, and his play is increassing. They have met somewhere in the middle. Marrdro has the graph if you need more info.

midgensa
10-21-2008, 08:53 PM
"V" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:














2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.


How was his salary last year?


Why does he salary last year even matter? It is this year.
I mean seriously? We are going to pick and choose random years for him to live up to his salary? If you want him to "live" up to what he is paid ... it is simple ... he is the 12th highest paid TE. If it was higher last year so be it. That is last year ... has really little relevance to whether he is living up to his value this season.


Just say it.

Shank has not lived up to his value until this year.

He salary is decreasing, and his play is increassing. They have met somewhere in the middle. Marrdro has the graph if you need more info.


Just say what? Fine he did not live up to his value last year. But he is this year ... that is really the one that matters right since the past is the past. And really ... he has only been here two years ... so right now he is living up to it as of now. Can't really judge it for a little longer.
Yeah ... last year was bad and the beginning of this year not so good. But he is living up to what he is getting paid right now.

Ranger
10-22-2008, 02:02 AM
"midgensa" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:
















2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.


How was his salary last year?


Why does he salary last year even matter? It is this year.
I mean seriously? We are going to pick and choose random years for him to live up to his salary? If you want him to "live" up to what he is paid ... it is simple ... he is the 12th highest paid TE. If it was higher last year so be it. That is last year ... has really little relevance to whether he is living up to his value this season.


Just say it.

Shank has not lived up to his value until this year.

He salary is decreasing, and his play is increassing. They have met somewhere in the middle. Marrdro has the graph if you need more info.


Just say what? Fine he did not live up to his value last year. But he is this year ... that is really the one that matters right since the past is the past. And really ... he has only been here two years ... so right now he is living up to it as of now. Can't really judge it for a little longer.
Yeah ... last year was bad and the beginning of this year not so good. But he is living up to what he is getting paid right now.


It just makes me laugh when people say that you shouldn't expect a player to perform better when they're given a massive pay hike, and it has nothing to do with past performance.
I'd imagine the fans in Atlanta had some pretty high expectations for Turner after he signed with them as their main back.

singersp
10-22-2008, 06:40 AM
"Ranger" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


















2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.


How was his salary last year?


Why does he salary last year even matter? It is this year.
I mean seriously? We are going to pick and choose random years for him to live up to his salary? If you want him to "live" up to what he is paid ... it is simple ... he is the 12th highest paid TE. If it was higher last year so be it. That is last year ... has really little relevance to whether he is living up to his value this season.


Just say it.

Shank has not lived up to his value until this year.

He salary is decreasing, and his play is increassing. They have met somewhere in the middle. Marrdro has the graph if you need more info.


Just say what? Fine he did not live up to his value last year. But he is this year ... that is really the one that matters right since the past is the past. And really ... he has only been here two years ... so right now he is living up to it as of now. Can't really judge it for a little longer.
Yeah ... last year was bad and the beginning of this year not so good. But he is living up to what he is getting paid right now.


It just makes me laugh when people say that you shouldn't expect a player to perform better when they're given a massive pay hike, and it has nothing to do with past performance.
I'd imagine the fans in Atlanta had some pretty high expectations for Turner after he signed with them as their main back.


You shouldn't be giving a veteran player already on your roster a massive pay hike expecting him to do better. That pay hike should be based on his current & past performance.

Some times, if you definitely want to retain said player, you have to dig into the ole pocketbook & pay him more than what you'd like to. Especially if said player is a FA & his services are being highly sought after.

It's all about supply & demand.

Purple Floyd
10-22-2008, 08:34 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:




















2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.


How was his salary last year?


Why does he salary last year even matter? It is this year.
I mean seriously? We are going to pick and choose random years for him to live up to his salary? If you want him to "live" up to what he is paid ... it is simple ... he is the 12th highest paid TE. If it was higher last year so be it. That is last year ... has really little relevance to whether he is living up to his value this season.


Just say it.

Shank has not lived up to his value until this year.

He salary is decreasing, and his play is increassing. They have met somewhere in the middle. Marrdro has the graph if you need more info.


Just say what? Fine he did not live up to his value last year. But he is this year ... that is really the one that matters right since the past is the past. And really ... he has only been here two years ... so right now he is living up to it as of now. Can't really judge it for a little longer.
Yeah ... last year was bad and the beginning of this year not so good. But he is living up to what he is getting paid right now.


It just makes me laugh when people say that you shouldn't expect a player to perform better when they're given a massive pay hike, and it has nothing to do with past performance.
I'd imagine the fans in Atlanta had some pretty high expectations for Turner after he signed with them as their main back.


You shouldn't be giving a veteran player already on your roster a massive pay hike expecting him to do better. That pay hike should be based on his current & past performance.

Some times, if you definitely want to retain said player, you have to dig into the ole pocketbook & pay him more than what you'd like to. Especially if said player is a FA & his services are being highly sought after.

It's all about supply & demand.


Not exactly supply and demand. The players union has alot to do with the pay scales for players too. Without it I believe the salaries would be much lower.

Supply and Demand will be interesting to watch in action in the new Jets/Giants stadium where some people are paying 20,000 for a PSL that allows them the privilege of buying tickets to the game at 700 dollars a pop. That one is going to be interesting to watch and see if it catches on around the league.

V-Unit
10-22-2008, 09:56 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"V" wrote:






















2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.


How was his salary last year?


Why does he salary last year even matter? It is this year.
I mean seriously? We are going to pick and choose random years for him to live up to his salary? If you want him to "live" up to what he is paid ... it is simple ... he is the 12th highest paid TE. If it was higher last year so be it. That is last year ... has really little relevance to whether he is living up to his value this season.


Just say it.

Shank has not lived up to his value until this year.

He salary is decreasing, and his play is increassing. They have met somewhere in the middle. Marrdro has the graph if you need more info.


Just say what? Fine he did not live up to his value last year. But he is this year ... that is really the one that matters right since the past is the past. And really ... he has only been here two years ... so right now he is living up to it as of now. Can't really judge it for a little longer.
Yeah ... last year was bad and the beginning of this year not so good. But he is living up to what he is getting paid right now.


It just makes me laugh when people say that you shouldn't expect a player to perform better when they're given a massive pay hike, and it has nothing to do with past performance.
I'd imagine the fans in Atlanta had some pretty high expectations for Turner after he signed with them as their main back.


You shouldn't be giving a veteran player already on your roster a massive pay hike expecting him to do better. That pay hike should be based on his current & past performance.

Some times, if you definitely want to retain said player, you have to dig into the ole pocketbook & pay him more than what you'd like to. Especially if said player is a FA & his services are being highly sought after.

It's all about supply & demand.


Not exactly supply and demand. The players union has alot to do with the pay scales for players too. Without it I believe the salaries would be much lower.

Supply and Demand will be interesting to watch in action in the new Jets/Giants stadium where some people are paying 20,000 for a PSL that allows them the privilege of buying tickets to the game at 700 dollars a pop. That one is going to be interesting to watch and see if it catches on around the league.



Same thing is happenning for the Cowboys new stadium. PSLs range from 16k to 150k. Lowest ticket price is 340. The NFL is going white collare extremely quickly.

Ranger
10-22-2008, 12:26 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"Ranger" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"midgensa" wrote:




















2 solid games and I should eat crow?

I'll eat crow when the fifth highest paid TE puts up the fifth highest stats.

He has some some solid games this year, but he's still an average TE.


So is JA making twice as much as he was making in KC?

If so, will you consider him not living up to the hype if he doesn't get 30 sacks?


FYI, a players performance does not go up simply because you throw more money at him.


FYI, a fan's expectations go up when a player has more money thrown at him.


And wrongfully so.


I don't think so.
You pay for a product, and you should get what you pay for.
It's one of the reasons I'm against rookies making so much money just because they're projected to be a good player in the NFL.

A guy like Gonzo deserves big money for a tight end, because he is a big producer.
Same with LT, AD, Walter Jones...guys like that.

If you're a backup, and I bring you over to be a starter and give you a huge pay raise, I expect you to perform like a good player and earn that money.
Nobody is going to take a poohie guy, pay him a huge raise, and expect him to perform the same as he was when he was a poohie backup.


When it comes to signing vets you do get exactly what you pay for. You are basing your offer on the vets history, his past performance & what he can or can't do. Raises are paid on merit. If a starter gets a raise it's because he has earned it based on what he has done. You can't expect a player to be able to so more than he's capable of doing simply because you pay him more. What it's called is paying too much for a player.

The only reason Shiancoe is getting paid what he is, is because the Vikings were in need of a TE & the pool was small, making Shiancoe a higher commodity. The Vikings wanted him & needed him, so they overpaid for him to keep him from signing elsewhere.

When AD's rookie contract is over & if they double his salary, are you expecting him to gain 3,600 yards?

I'm not, I'm expecting him to keep on going what he has already been doing. He will not magical double his production simply because he's getting paid twice as much.


I'm not saying that salary and production directly correspond with one another.
What I'm trying to drive home is that players should be expected to perform to a level that would justify their salary.
Is/was Shiancoe over-paid?
Absolutely.
If you're going to take a veteran player and offer him top five positional salary, I'd expect he perform somewhere in the field of a top five guy at his position.
Not as a very "meh" addition, otherwise you're better off saving the money for another day.

It's not so black and white as "double the pay, double the production".
If AD gets his pay raise to the highest paid back in the NFL, I feel justified in expecting his performance to be among the very best at his position.

Even talking about the salary does not make sense to me. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Shiancoe (at least lately) has done everything he has been asked to do. It is really that simple, what else could we want from him?
He has not dropped passes, he has caught almost ALL thrown his way and has put up TDs ... he has become a fairly productive member of this offense, which is what we need him to be.
By the way ... for the 5,000th time ... SHANK IS NOT PAID LIKE A TOP 5 TE. He is tied for the 12TH!!!! highest paid TE in the league (including being the SECOND highest paid on his own team). So, by pure numbers ... I would say he is right in the area of the 12th highest paid. 18th in yards for TEs and 2nd in TDs.


How was his salary last year?


Why does he salary last year even matter? It is this year.
I mean seriously? We are going to pick and choose random years for him to live up to his salary? If you want him to "live" up to what he is paid ... it is simple ... he is the 12th highest paid TE. If it was higher last year so be it. That is last year ... has really little relevance to whether he is living up to his value this season.


Just say it.

Shank has not lived up to his value until this year.

He salary is decreasing, and his play is increassing. They have met somewhere in the middle. Marrdro has the graph if you need more info.


Just say what? Fine he did not live up to his value last year. But he is this year ... that is really the one that matters right since the past is the past. And really ... he has only been here two years ... so right now he is living up to it as of now. Can't really judge it for a little longer.
Yeah ... last year was bad and the beginning of this year not so good. But he is living up to what he is getting paid right now.


It just makes me laugh when people say that you shouldn't expect a player to perform better when they're given a massive pay hike, and it has nothing to do with past performance.
I'd imagine the fans in Atlanta had some pretty high expectations for Turner after he signed with them as their main back.


You shouldn't be giving a veteran player already on your roster a massive pay hike expecting him to do better. That pay hike should be based on his current & past performance.

Some times, if you definitely want to retain said player, you have to dig into the ole pocketbook & pay him more than what you'd like to. Especially if said player is a FA & his services are being highly sought after.

It's all about supply & demand.


What I'm talking about is the signing of a player from another team, and giving him a salary much richer than he's been playing under.

Either way, I'm pleased with his performance last week, and hope that he can keep it up.

tastywaves
10-22-2008, 12:57 PM
"V" wrote:


Same thing is happenning for the Cowboys new stadium. PSLs range from 16k to 150k. Lowest ticket price is 340. The NFL is going white collare extremely quickly.


So much for watching a game in that stadium, good thing Dallas is loaded with overextended families that won't think twice about charging up a couple tickets to the game.