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StillPurple
09-11-2008, 06:21 PM
I have now officially lost confidence with Childress.

Consider if you will, these critiques of him, which I also believe:

- He inherited a 9-7 team and turned it into a 6-10 team.
- The following year, he went 8-8, despite having Adrian Peterson
- He has a worse overall record than Tice, even though Brad was able to bring in his own staff and Tice wasn't
- We lost Wiggins and Brad Johnson due to Chilly
- Marcus Robinson: "Childress had a total inability to communicate with the players.
- Upon which, Robinson was cut (on Christmas Day - a nice touch !).
- Total inability to run a simple screen pass, even though the O-linemen know how to do it. Total inability to throw screen passes to Peterson, even though screens are a staple of the west coast offense (!!).
- Being outcoached (last year's Washington game, which killed our season)

You can say what you want about Brad. In his 30 years of coaching, his winning % is 56 %. His record as a Vikings head coach is far worse than Denny's and worse than Tice's even though Brad has had better talent (AP, Kevin Williams) than Tice did.

These things are becoming really evident to me. The whole Tarvaris thing is so evident to me, that this guy is a bust.

Purple Floyd
09-11-2008, 06:23 PM
Did this just happen today?

Would you also terminate the personnel staff or the capmaster?

Are you ready to see the roster overhauled again under a new coach?

StillPurple
09-11-2008, 06:25 PM
Yes. I would fire Childress or "demote him up" to upper management.

I personally would throw Bevell out of Winter Park. That guy is totally useless. His playcalling is horrible !

I would, if I owned this team, do the following:

1. Bring in Schottenheimer or Denny or Jim Fassel
2. Get Jeff Garcia in here (he is disgruntled in Tampa). Garcia can run the west coast offense and is a good QB.
3. Get a real offensive coordinator who knows what a screen pass is.
4. Get a playbook that gets AP the gol 'darnit ball in space.
5. Get a Def. Coordinator who knows how to blitz at the right times, and who can teach the corners what press coverage is.

Purple Floyd
09-11-2008, 06:32 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Yes. I would fire Childress or "demote him up" to upper management.

I personally would throw Bevell out of Winter Park. That guy is totally useless. His playcalling is horrible !

I would, if I owned this team, do the following:

1. Bring in Schottenheimer or Denny or Jim Fassel
2. Get Jeff Garcia in here (he is disgruntled in Tampa). Garcia can run the west coast offense and is a good QB.
3. Get a real offensive coordinator who knows what a screen pass is.
4. Get a playbook that gets AP the gol 'darnit ball in space.
5. Get a Def. Coordinator who knows how to blitz at the right times, and who can teach the corners what press coverage is.


Schott- Can't win the SB with the most talented team. Been there and don't need to see it again.

Denny G- Can't win the SB with the most talented team. Been there and don't need to see version 2.0

Fassel- See answers above.

Garcia- two years too late.

As far as the OC and DC- That will be determined by the coach, who I would hope would not be 1,2 or 3 above.

Schutz
09-11-2008, 06:37 PM
Childress won't be replaced during the season.
Now if at the end of the year the Vikes finish 8-8 or worse I would worry about it job.
After the season has started unless you go 0-8 or something you never bring in a new guy that's going to do better without having the offseason to implement a new plan.

I personally think Childress is a bum as a coach, but he'll be here all season unless there is some horrible horrible football played the first 8-10 weeks.


Now if Childress did get fired in the offseason it would only be fitting to give my boy Tice another shot with a real owner.
;D

jdvike
09-11-2008, 06:41 PM
Wiggins and Marcus Robinson?? you consider these guys big losses?..and Brad J. please give me a break.
When you mentioned bringing back Denny or god forbid Jim Fassel...you lost me completely.

One more thing...K-Will was drafted by Tice.

StillPurple
09-11-2008, 07:00 PM
As I recall, Brad Johnson ran the west coast offense well. Wiggins was a machine. Are you kidding me ? That guy was money !

I liked and still like Mike Tice. He had fire in his gut and he treated the players well and fired them up. He was also accountable. The thing I don't like about Childress is this whole "it is the system", "wait a bit...", "you don't get it" or "you don't get the complexity", bla, bla, bla.

I am so sick of him running AP off-tackle into a stacked box, that his QB can't throw us out of, and then saying that I need to wait and let the "system" work.

StillPurple
09-11-2008, 07:10 PM
I think that Schottenheimer, Denny, or Fassel would all know how to get AP in space. They would also know to throw the screen a lot to him.

They also would know when to blitz and when not to:

- vs. a very experienced QB (Favre), you zone blitz
- vs. a QB with zero experience (Rodgers), you blitz

Chilly does the opposite.

Really, the guy is inexplicable !

He is also now 0-6 vs. the Packers, I think.

Can you name me one other NFL coach who would have drafted Tarvaris and then "crowned" him the starter ? Dungy, Belicheck, Holmgren ? Any of those guys ? The idea itself makes me laugh. Look at Childress's coaching buddy, Sean Peyton, who has Drew Brees as QB. No coach would have installed Tarvaris the way Chilly did.

I just know what will happen on Sunday:
- Continued runs by AP into the stacked box
- Tarvaris rolling out and running downfield (Sanders will destroy him)
- Bad playcallling all around.

The only reason I won't leave is that I have a rule that I never leave a Vikings game, no matter how bad it gets...

BloodyHorns82
09-11-2008, 07:24 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I think that Schottenheimer, Denny, or Fassel would all know how to get AP in space. They would also know to throw the screen a lot to him.

They also would know when to blitz and when not to:

- vs. a very experienced QB (Favre), you zone blitz
- vs. a QB with zero experience (Rodgers), you blitz

Chilly does the opposite.

Really, the guy is inexplicable !

He is also now 0-6 vs. the Packers, I think.

Can you name me one other NFL coach who would have drafted Tarvaris and then "crowned" him the starter ? Dungy, Belicheck, Holmgren ? Any of those guys ? The idea itself makes me laugh. Look at Childress's coaching buddy, Sean Peyton, who has Drew Brees as QB. No coach would have installed Tarvaris the way Chilly did.

I just know what will happen on Sunday:
- Continued runs by AP into the stacked box
- Tarvaris rolling out and running downfield (Sanders will destroy him)
- Bad playcallling all around.

The only reason I won't leave is that I have a rule that I never leave a Vikings game, no matter how bad it gets...


Seems to me that Childress used him pretty effectively last season considering he won rookie of the year AND broke the NFL single game TD record.


I suppose your theory would be he would have rushed for 7,000 yards if Schottenhemer, Denny, or Fassel was his coach?
???

Vikes_King
09-11-2008, 07:31 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I think that Schottenheimer, Denny, or Fassel would all know how to get AP in space. They would also know to throw the screen a lot to him.

They also would know when to blitz and when not to:

- vs. a very experienced QB (Favre), you zone blitz
- vs. a QB with zero experience (Rodgers), you blitz

Chilly does the opposite.

Really, the guy is inexplicable !

He is also now 0-6 vs. the Packers, I think.

Can you name me one other NFL coach who would have drafted Tarvaris and then "crowned" him the starter ? Dungy, Belicheck, Holmgren ? Any of those guys ? The idea itself makes me laugh. Look at Childress's coaching buddy, Sean Peyton, who has Drew Brees as QB. No coach would have installed Tarvaris the way Chilly did.

I just know what will happen on Sunday:
- Continued runs by AP into the stacked box
- Tarvaris rolling out and running downfield (Sanders will destroy him)
- Bad playcallling all around.

The only reason I won't leave is that I have a rule that I never leave a Vikings game, no matter how bad it gets...


He's only 0-5, give the guy some credit

StillPurple
09-11-2008, 07:33 PM
Some other good points (not from me):

Childress: “I remember a great, great comment by John Lynch after we played them last year. On defense, all you ever try to do is to make the other team one-dimensional, and he said, ‘They already were one-dimensional.’ You know what? It was like a charge hit home. And we started to run the ball more.” Yeah, I’m not sure either. ::) :P


Childress on Peterson’s lack of success late in the season: “Well, he’s not a secret anymore.” As if any player (let alone superstar) in the NFL is a secret. Isn’t it Childress’ job to put Peterson in positions to make plays?
::)


Childress: (paraphrasing because I couldn’t find the exact quote again):
I’ve always felt like if I get the chance to be a head coach, I want to do it my way because I might never get that chance again.
-----------------------

Childress should be moved to a front-office or scouting position because…


1. The Vikings haven't won games with him as coach.
Last 5 seasons: 9-7

8-8

9-7

(Enter Childress)
6-10

8-8(with AP)
Childress had more talent in the 6-10 year than Tice had in the 9-7 year


2. His winning percentage in 30 years of coaching is 56%.


3. The play-calling has been awful with him as coach.
To those who say Childress isn’t the offensive coordinator so play-calling is not his responsibility.
I say: find a way to get things done.
He is the head coach.
He decides who calls the plays.


4. He
has not communicated effectively
with players.
Matt Birk, Antoine Winfield, Brad Johnson, Dwight Smith, Darren Sharper, Bobby Wade, Daunte Culpepper, Troy Williamson, Marcus Robinson, Jermaine Wiggins, Terrell Owens (while they were with the Eagles.)


5. He has made poor decisions about who to play and who not to.
Adrian Peterson, Troy Williamson, Visanthe Shiancoe, Aundrae Allison, Bethel Johnson, Mewelde Moore, Sidney Rice, Cedric Griffin,


6. He has not made adjustments to maximize players' strengths and minimize their weaknesses.
Adrian Peterson (can't block...), Matt Birk and Steve Hutchinson (few screens), Tarvaris Jackson (the entire offense and play-calling), Troy Williamson (send him deep).


7. He
is not
competitive enough.
The "big picture" for the head coach is to win the game THAT WEEK.



8.
His communication with the media and fans has been atrocious.
Listen to him talk.



9. He appears unwilling to adjust or change.
Childress responding to his apparent stubbornness and refusal to change despite the lack of offensive success: “It’s not just my personality, it’s a coach’s personality.”
Yeah... no.


10. The Vikings are 0-5 against the Packers since he became head coach.
We have lost 5 games in a row to the Packers since Brad Childress arrived.


11. Everything else with the Vikings organization is rolling.
Ownership, Adrian Peterson, great drafts by Spielman and Co., talent at every position, fans.


V I K I N G S ! SKOL VIKINGS LET’S GO!

BloodyHorns82
09-11-2008, 07:39 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Some other good points (not from me):

Childress: “I remember a great, great comment by John Lynch after we played them last year. On defense, all you ever try to do is to make the other team one-dimensional, and he said, ‘They already were one-dimensional.’ You know what? It was like a charge hit home. And we started to run the ball more.” Yeah, I’m not sure either. ::) :P


Childress on Peterson’s lack of success late in the season: “Well, he’s not a secret anymore.” As if any player (let alone superstar) in the NFL is a secret. Isn’t it Childress’ job to put Peterson in positions to make plays?
::)


Childress: (paraphrasing because I couldn’t find the exact quote again):
I’ve always felt like if I get the chance to be a head coach, I want to do it my way because I might never get that chance again.
-----------------------

Childress should be moved to a front-office or scouting position because…


1. The Vikings haven't won games with him as coach.
Last 5 seasons: 9-7

8-8

9-7

(Enter Childress)
6-10

8-8(with AP)
Childress had more talent in the 6-10 year than Tice had in the 9-7 year


2. His winning percentage in 30 years of coaching is 56%.


3. The play-calling has been awful with him as coach.
To those who say Childress isn’t the offensive coordinator so play-calling is not his responsibility.
I say: find a way to get things done.
He is the head coach.
He decides who calls the plays.


4. He
has not communicated effectively
with players.
Matt Birk, Antoine Winfield, Brad Johnson, Dwight Smith, Darren Sharper, Bobby Wade, Daunte Culpepper, Troy Williamson, Marcus Robinson, Jermaine Wiggins, Terrell Owens (while they were with the Eagles.)


5. He has made poor decisions about who to play and who not to.
Adrian Peterson, Troy Williamson, Visanthe Shiancoe, Aundrae Allison, Bethel Johnson, Mewelde Moore, Sidney Rice, Cedric Griffin,


6. He has not made adjustments to maximize players' strengths and minimize their weaknesses.
Adrian Peterson (can't block...), Matt Birk and Steve Hutchinson (few screens), Tarvaris Jackson (the entire offense and play-calling), Troy Williamson (send him deep).


7. He
is not
competitive enough.
The "big picture" for the head coach is to win the game THAT WEEK.



8.
His communication with the media and fans has been atrocious.
Listen to him talk.



9. He appears unwilling to adjust or change.
Childress responding to his apparent stubbornness and refusal to change despite the lack of offensive success: “It’s not just my personality, it’s a coach’s personality.”
Yeah... no.


10. The Vikings are 0-5 against the Packers since he became head coach.
We have lost 5 games in a row to the Packers since Brad Childress arrived.


11. Everything else with the Vikings organization is rolling.
Ownership, Adrian Peterson, great drafts by Spielman and Co., talent at every position, fans.


V I K I N G S ! SKOL VIKINGS LET’S GO!





This is actually a pretty well laid out argument.
There are a few questionable items, but overall a pretty good list.
This coming from a guy who still hasn't made up his mind (neutral) about Childress.

C Mac D
09-11-2008, 07:40 PM
No worries, he'll be gone soon.

StillPurple
09-11-2008, 07:44 PM
You know you want Denny and Culpepper back !!!
;D ;D

Admit it !!

The first stage of recovery is getting over the denial !!

Purple Floyd
09-11-2008, 07:46 PM
"C" wrote:


No worries, he'll be gone soon.


You want childress fired? ???

Jim Kleinsasser #40
09-11-2008, 07:51 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I have now officially lost confidence with Childress.

Consider if you will, these critiques of him, which I also believe:

- He inherited a 9-7 team and turned it into a 6-10 team.
- The following year, he went 8-8, despite having Adrian Peterson
- He has a worse overall record than Tice, even though Brad was able to bring in his own staff and Tice wasn't
- We lost Wiggins and Brad Johnson due to Chilly
- Marcus Robinson: "Childress had a total inability to communicate with the players.
- Upon which, Robinson was cut (on Christmas Day - a nice touch !).
- Total inability to run a simple screen pass, even though the O-linemen know how to do it. Total inability to throw screen passes to Peterson, even though screens are a staple of the west coast offense (!!).
- Being outcoached (last year's Washington game, which killed our season)

You can say what you want about Brad. In his 30 years of coaching, his winning % is 56 %. His record as a Vikings head coach is far worse than Denny's and worse than Tice's even though Brad has had better talent (AP, Kevin Williams) than Tice did.

These things are becoming really evident to me. The whole Tarvaris thing is so evident to me, that this guy is a bust.

This is the most intelligent and well thought through comment I’ve ever heard. There are no flaws in it whatsoever. I especially like the well thought through comment about how getting rid of Robinson, Wiggins, and Johnson makes Childress a bad coach (All of whom were older players on a rebuilding team who didn’t fit the system). Oh wait… NOT!!!
As for the screen pass: How is the Packers’ defense playing a screen well Childress’ fault? The defense read screen and stayed on Peterson. The call didn’t work, perhaps this is the reason that we didn’t call a bunch of them.

StillPurple
09-11-2008, 08:01 PM
I am not talking about just this last game. Look at the last 5 games AP has played in: he has been taken out of the game. They insist on running AP off-tackle. I personally don't remember screen passes to AP in the Packers game. Did I just miss those 5 screens we attempted to Peterson ?

My problem is exactly what you mentioned: whenever anyone questions Chilly, he talks about "the system". It is his go-to excuse that he constantly uses.

Football on any level is about getting the best players into the best situations and making adjustments constantly. Not about saying "the system will work [long term]". As economist John M. Keynes wrote, "in the long term, we are all dead".

StillPurple
09-11-2008, 08:05 PM
BTW, the Chiefs are going to let Tyler Thigpen into some games at QB in the next 2-4 weeks. Was he also "too old for the system" ? (he is 25).

Jim Kleinsasser #40
09-11-2008, 08:12 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I am not talking about just this last game. Look at the last 5 games AP has played in: he has been taken out of the game. They insist on running AP off-tackle. I personally don't remember screen passes to AP in the Packers game. Did I just miss those 5 screens we attempted to Peterson ?

My problem is exactly what you mentioned: whenever anyone questions Chilly, he talks about "the system". It is his go-to excuse that he constantly uses.

Football on any level is about getting the best players into the best situations and making adjustments constantly. Not about saying "the system will work [long term]". As economist John M. Keynes wrote, "in the long term, we are all dead".

The reason you don't remember the screen pass in the Packers' game is it didn't work. It resulted in a loss of yards.

And while I love the fact that you quoted Keynes, it isn't applicable here. Childress is best at teaching his system, that is why it's his system. It doesn't make sense for him to teach players a system he himself doesn't know. And I would hope that Childress would be able to impliment his system before I die...if not that would be pretty depressing.

marstc09
09-11-2008, 08:13 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"C" wrote:


No worries, he'll be gone soon.


You want childress fired? ???


I do after the season if he fails to make the playoffs.

Jim Kleinsasser #40
09-11-2008, 08:16 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


BTW, the Chiefs are going to let Tyler Thigpen into some games at QB in the next 2-4 weeks. Was he also "too old for the system" ? (he is 25).

Those are two different scenarios. We tried to sneak Thigpen onto our practice squad, since he was relatively unknown and we thought we would be able to do it with no problems. The Chiefs claimed him off waivers. We didn’t cut him, he was taken from us.

Purple Floyd
09-11-2008, 08:17 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I am not talking about just this last game. Look at the last 5 games AP has played in: he has been taken out of the game. They insist on running AP off-tackle. I personally don't remember screen passes to AP in the Packers game. Did I just miss those 5 screens we attempted to Peterson ?

My problem is exactly what you mentioned: whenever anyone questions Chilly, he talks about "the system". It is his go-to excuse that he constantly uses.

Football on any level is about getting the best players into the best situations and making adjustments constantly. Not about saying "the system will work [long term]". As economist John M. Keynes wrote, "in the long term, we are all dead".


Personally I like this line of his:


"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking. "

Jim Kleinsasser #40
09-11-2008, 08:27 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I am not talking about just this last game. Look at the last 5 games AP has played in: he has been taken out of the game. They insist on running AP off-tackle. I personally don't remember screen passes to AP in the Packers game. Did I just miss those 5 screens we attempted to Peterson ?

My problem is exactly what you mentioned: whenever anyone questions Chilly, he talks about "the system". It is his go-to excuse that he constantly uses.

Football on any level is about getting the best players into the best situations and making adjustments constantly. Not about saying "the system will work [long term]". As economist John M. Keynes wrote, "in the long term, we are all dead".


Personally I like this line of his:


"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking. "

How about, “Americans are apt to be unduly interested in discovering what average opinion believes average opinion to be.”

Purple Floyd
09-11-2008, 08:32 PM
"Jim" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I am not talking about just this last game. Look at the last 5 games AP has played in: he has been taken out of the game. They insist on running AP off-tackle. I personally don't remember screen passes to AP in the Packers game. Did I just miss those 5 screens we attempted to Peterson ?

My problem is exactly what you mentioned: whenever anyone questions Chilly, he talks about "the system". It is his go-to excuse that he constantly uses.

Football on any level is about getting the best players into the best situations and making adjustments constantly. Not about saying "the system will work [long term]". As economist John M. Keynes wrote, "in the long term, we are all dead".


Personally I like this line of his:


"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking. "

How about, “Americans are apt to be unduly interested in discovering what average opinion believes average opinion to be.”


That is probably #2.

Not his but how about:


"There is no such thing as a free lunch"

All Day
09-11-2008, 08:38 PM
Tice was pathetic. I try to black that time period out of my memory...

Childress has been pretty pathetic as well but i do not blame him for getting rid of Brad Johnson becausehe is 90 and would never start on another team in the NFL. Wiggins was good but he was also old and we got VS who has pretty big upside and its not childress's fault he cannot come up with clutch catches.. So if VS would do what he should be doing then the whole wiggins thing wouldnt even be mentioned.

I would like to see more passes thrown to Peterson.

TJack.. This was what his 17th start in the NFL? What other option did childress have? I wouldnt have wanted another whole year of BJohnson he wasnt cutting it anyway. Who did tjack have to pass to last year? Wade was ok last year but he doesnt stack up anywhere near any other teams number 1. Sidney Rice is going to be a beast but he did not even get to play that much to start last season.

I dont remember anyone saying Tyler Thigpen was too old for the system and i dont really understand the arguement about him at all.. If you are complaining about giving tjack the starting job then the cheifs fans should be real mad if they are going to let Thigpen play. He came from a school that he was the first QB to ever play for them because it was such a small school they just recently got a football team. So if tjack wasnt ready for the NFL i wouldnt doubt he was even farther off. If we can get the receivers to catch now that there are some real options berrian and rice then i think alot of people are going to be changing their minds about tjack.

Schutz
09-11-2008, 08:46 PM
"Jim" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I am not talking about just this last game. Look at the last 5 games AP has played in: he has been taken out of the game. They insist on running AP off-tackle. I personally don't remember screen passes to AP in the Packers game. Did I just miss those 5 screens we attempted to Peterson ?

My problem is exactly what you mentioned: whenever anyone questions Chilly, he talks about "the system". It is his go-to excuse that he constantly uses.

Football on any level is about getting the best players into the best situations and making adjustments constantly. Not about saying "the system will work [long term]". As economist John M. Keynes wrote, "in the long term, we are all dead".


Personally I like this line of his:


"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking. "

How about, “Americans are apt to be unduly interested in discovering what average opinion believes average opinion to be.”


How about "A picture is worth 1,000 words and you just said 10 words.
So do you want credit or just bank you 1/100th of a picture now?"

Jim Kleinsasser #40
09-11-2008, 08:50 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Jim" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I am not talking about just this last game. Look at the last 5 games AP has played in: he has been taken out of the game. They insist on running AP off-tackle. I personally don't remember screen passes to AP in the Packers game. Did I just miss those 5 screens we attempted to Peterson ?

My problem is exactly what you mentioned: whenever anyone questions Chilly, he talks about "the system". It is his go-to excuse that he constantly uses.

Football on any level is about getting the best players into the best situations and making adjustments constantly. Not about saying "the system will work [long term]". As economist John M. Keynes wrote, "in the long term, we are all dead".


Personally I like this line of his:


"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking. "

How about, “Americans are apt to be unduly interested in discovering what average opinion believes average opinion to be.”


That is probably #2.

Not his but how about:


"There is no such thing as a free lunch"

Milton Friedman was the man!!

singersp
09-11-2008, 09:05 PM
Am I the only one who hates thread titles with nothing more mentioned than just a name?

For God's sake! At least put a description in the title of what the thread is about so we can at least decide to open it or pass it by.

There's probably already a thread started bashing Childress.

VikingsTw
09-11-2008, 09:20 PM
It doens't need much of a title when StillPurple is posting we all know what he's about. IMO its a bit premature to throw Childress out the door unless you feel very confident he's getting ready to lead this team to an average or below average record. The problem I have with all the coaching staff bashing would be in due to the fact that players play and the coaches coach. Was it Brad Childress's fault that Kluwe kicked a line drive returned for a TD? Or that EJ Henderson got overseles on the Grant run? How about the way the refs performed? Fact of the matter is we got to much premature bashing going on this week, everyone wanted to win that game but we must understand there are 15 games to go and most importantly we get to rematch the Packers in our house.

Now I will say that if Childress's team stays healthy and underperforms there is an obvious issue but I don't see it headed in that direction, I'm gonna give it some time. I think a big win against the Colts this weak could start us off in the right direction, if not we got an uphill battle. In the End the results of this season will likely tell the story but I'm not about to bet against them.

kevoncox
09-11-2008, 09:23 PM
"Jim" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I am not talking about just this last game. Look at the last 5 games AP has played in: he has been taken out of the game. They insist on running AP off-tackle. I personally don't remember screen passes to AP in the Packers game. Did I just miss those 5 screens we attempted to Peterson ?

My problem is exactly what you mentioned: whenever anyone questions Chilly, he talks about "the system". It is his go-to excuse that he constantly uses.

Football on any level is about getting the best players into the best situations and making adjustments constantly. Not about saying "the system will work [long term]". As economist John M. Keynes wrote, "in the long term, we are all dead".

The reason you don't remember the screen pass in the Packers' game is it didn't work. It resulted in a loss of yards.

And while I love the fact that you quoted Keynes, it isn't applicable here. Childress is best at teaching his system, that is why it's his system. It doesn't make sense for him to teach players a system he himself doesn't know. And I would hope that Childress would be able to impliment his system before I die...if not that would be pretty depressing.


They ran a screen to the middle of the field. Possible the dumbest play in ever play book.
You use the screen to suck players to 1 side of the feild. If you rn it be hind the center....players are not
on either side of the field and you are hoping to throw over the DL. Lets get Andy Reid ready.

Jim Kleinsasser #40
09-11-2008, 09:38 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Jim" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I am not talking about just this last game. Look at the last 5 games AP has played in: he has been taken out of the game. They insist on running AP off-tackle. I personally don't remember screen passes to AP in the Packers game. Did I just miss those 5 screens we attempted to Peterson ?

My problem is exactly what you mentioned: whenever anyone questions Chilly, he talks about "the system". It is his go-to excuse that he constantly uses.

Football on any level is about getting the best players into the best situations and making adjustments constantly. Not about saying "the system will work [long term]". As economist John M. Keynes wrote, "in the long term, we are all dead".

The reason you don't remember the screen pass in the Packers' game is it didn't work. It resulted in a loss of yards.

And while I love the fact that you quoted Keynes, it isn't applicable here. Childress is best at teaching his system, that is why it's his system. It doesn't make sense for him to teach players a system he himself doesn't know. And I would hope that Childress would be able to impliment his system before I die...if not that would be pretty depressing.


They ran a screen to the middle of the field. Possible the dumbest play in ever play book.
You use the screen to suck players to 1 side of the feild. If you rn it be hind the center....players are not
on either side of the field and you are hoping to throw over the DL. Lets get Andy Reid ready.

You’re absolutely correct, it was a center screen. I don’t know if I would say it’s the dumbest play ever. The Giants ran one for a touchdown in the playoffs last year, and I’ve seen the Colts use them a couple of times successfully. Personally I just thought that the Packers’ defense just played it really good.

All Day
09-11-2008, 09:39 PM
I agree that it would be an uphill battle if we lose to the colts this week but its not impossible. Just last year the giants started 0-2 and look how they finished. I also agree with you about the fact that coaches coach and players play. Just imagine if they would have drove Coughlin out of town in NY like alot of people were asking for.

Garland Greene
09-11-2008, 09:41 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I have now officially lost confidence with Childress.

Consider if you will, these critiques of him, which I also believe:

- He inherited a 9-7 team and turned it into a 6-10 team.
Not surprising new system new philosphy record would get worse but not by a whole lot. again he inherited a team which also means he inherited the bads as well.

- The following year, he went 8-8, dgespite havin Adrian Peterson
Second year , record got better than the first,
Would be worried if it got worse

- He has a worse overall record than Tice, even though Brad was able to bring in his own staff and Tice wasn't
Tice had better talent on that team and he still did not do a whole lot with them.

- We lost Wiggins and Brad Johnson due to Chilly
I guess I am missing whhere this was huge loss for us, Brad Johnson was a has been, Wiggins playes where now in the league? He even went to jacksonville where Tice(One of his Boys) was coaching and still goty cut. TE are hard to come by in the league and for him to not have a job must mean something.

- Marcus Robinson: "Childress had a total inability to communicate with the players.
See the Wiggins comment above, and MR was never that good and was a inhury waiting to happen. The reason he was cut was because he was whiny and injured and was not doing what he was supposed to get his injury better. Sounds liek a reason to cut someone, especially a player not that good, in the first place.

- Upon which, Robinson was cut (on Christmas Day - a nice touch !).
See above comment on MR.

- Total inability to run a simple screen pass, even though the O-linemen know how to do it. Total inability to throw screen passes to Peterson, even though screens are a staple of the west coast offense (!!).
And this is Chilly's Fault, that a player can't execute a play? So if AD hits the wrong whole or JA fails to get a sack its Chilly's fault? Huh?

- Being outcoached (last year's Washington game, which killed our season)
There was a lot more than coaching that lost us that game.
Again layers have to execute the plays.

You can say what you want about Brad. In his 30 years of coaching, his winning % is 56 %. His record as a Vikings head coach is far worse than Denny's and worse than Tice's even though Brad has had better talent (AP, Kevin Williams) than Tice did.
I would argue against that, Tice had Moss, Culpepper, arguably a better OL, The defense killed us in the Tice era So I will say that this year, and I emphasize this year, that on paper we have a better defense.

These things are becoming really evident to me. The whole Tarvaris thing is so evident to me, that this guy is a bust.

Other things to consider, I have mentioned this before, and it is not a rip on TJack, But is it possibnble that the way he has to run the offense the way he does is because TJack is not capable of doing more than that?


With out that 6-10 record, and had we done better we would of never of had AD on this team.

Yes Chilly has a say, but he is not the one calling the plays on Offense or Defense.

Tice inherited a solid team, and actually made it worse, Can you honesty say that The Vikes in Tice's last year looks better than the one we have now?



Am i worried about the coaching? I think that there are areas that need to improve, but then again show me a coach that isn't going to be criticized for something.
Its no secret that I am not a fan of TJack, However I think he has alot to do with what we see in the execution of this offense. Again not a Tjack rip, but I really question if TJack is capable of running anything more than a simplified offense like we do. Lets be honest TJack makes aot of mistakes and there are arguments on both all sides of the fense about that and , we are not going down that road.
What can he do? Make the offense more complicated and hope to God that the QB can run the system and if not than it will be Ok to let him make mistake after mistake? Can you honestly say that there are far worse teams with coaching situations than the Vikings. I can maybe think of 3 or 4 current coaches that I would rather have be coach of this team if given a choice ut I can think of way more that I would not have.

StillPurple
09-11-2008, 11:31 PM
"Coaches coach and players play".

What the hell does that mean ?

BTW, VikingsTw, you claim to know what I am about. Funny, but I really don't recall you from any thread. So what, according to you, am I "about" ?

I will answer it: I have been a Vikings fan since 1972 and I support my team. Period. That is what I am "about".

And please don't claim to know about people you have no clue about, umkay ?

VikingsTw
09-11-2008, 11:53 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


"Coaches coach and players play".

What the hell does that mean ?

BTW, VikingsTw, you claim to know what I am about. Funny, but I really don't recall you from any thread. So what, according to you, am I "about" ?

I will answer it: I have been a Vikings fan since 1972 and I support my team. Period. That is what I am "about".

And please don't claim to know about people you have no clue about, umkay ?


What do mean what does it mean? It means Brad Childress can't punt for Kluwe and he won't be filling EJ Henderson's gap, it doesn't surprise me you don't understand this and I don't know how many times you've made it so easy for me to reply to your posts. Claiming you dont' know my screen name tells me exactly how you operate on this site, without visoin.

I never claimed to know you personally but I know what your all about when you start typing on this site. IMO you create a problem where there is none and because we lost the first game of the season off a couple bad plays your on here calling for Childress's head. I can't say that I like everything he has done but I'm not about to start calling for Jeff Garcia and a Coaching change nor is there reason for it, especailly at this point in time.

VikingsTw
09-12-2008, 12:10 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I have now officially lost confidence with Childress.

Consider if you will, these critiques of him, which I also believe:

- He inherited a 9-7 team and turned it into a 6-10 team.
- The following year, he went 8-8, despite having Adrian Peterson
- He has a worse overall record than Tice, even though Brad was able to bring in his own staff and Tice wasn't
- We lost Wiggins and Brad Johnson due to Chilly
- Marcus Robinson: "Childress had a total inability to communicate with the players.
- Upon which, Robinson was cut (on Christmas Day - a nice touch !).
- Total inability to run a simple screen pass, even though the O-linemen know how to do it. Total inability to throw screen passes to Peterson, even though screens are a staple of the west coast offense (!!).
- Being outcoached (last year's Washington game, which killed our season)

You can say what you want about Brad. In his 30 years of coaching, his winning % is 56 %. His record as a Vikings head coach is far worse than Denny's and worse than Tice's even though Brad has had better talent (AP, Kevin Williams) than Tice did.

These things are becoming really evident to me. The whole Tarvaris thing is so evident to me, that this guy is a bust.


Childress inherited a 9-7 team that was a mess, not only did these players lack disapline alot of them didn't fit the bill as a Minnesota Viking under Brad Childress and his system. Essentially the roster has been revamped while some of Tice's players remain with the team.

Adrian Peterson is a great player but it takes more than him to be average if thats how you play. I think last year could have been better but we were very young. Tice took over a team that had seasoned talent in there prime and I must admit no matter who was playing for us Tice's guys played there rears off for him.

Wiggins and Johnson had to go, I'm much more comfortable with Shancoe and Tarvaris, granted there still young and in the process, there is future there. Childress had several isssues and communication problems with players as he felt his first year had to be all about laying down the law. As time has progressed alot these relationships are stronger than ever, Birk aside.

At times I felt Childress was outcoached but at the same time the players havn't exactly been consistent with what they've been asked to do. The Redskins game was a game to forget but with a lack explosion or experience. Tarvaris as rookie with no running game and Wade/Furgeson as his primary targets. Rebuilding can be a beyotch but in the long run one can benifit.

What I'm most worried about is progression and getting better, so far after two short seasons that improvement was made. I'll wait till after this season to make that call for this year.

Its difficult for me to make the call on Tarvaris being a bust after so little time and considering the situation. Again a very raw guy coming into a rebuilding situation, its gonna be tuff. He's only played 15 starts and hasn't even played two weeks this season, I'll sit back and watch this season before making that desision also. All in All its
premature outlook IMO.

VikingsTw
09-12-2008, 12:18 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Yes. I would fire Childress or "demote him up" to upper management.

I personally would throw Bevell out of Winter Park. That guy is totally useless. His playcalling is horrible !

I would, if I owned this team, do the following:

1. Bring in Schottenheimer or Denny or Jim Fassel
2. Get Jeff Garcia in here (he is disgruntled in Tampa). Garcia can run the west coast offense and is a good QB.
3. Get a real offensive coordinator who knows what a screen pass is.
4. Get a playbook that gets AP the gol 'darnit ball in space.
5. Get a Def. Coordinator who knows how to blitz at the right times, and who can teach the corners what press coverage is.


If Childress can't be coach then I too would like to see him remain with the team in some sort but I wouldn't go throw Bevell on the street, I thought the playcalling was much better vs the packers and I'm willing to let this season ride as I think the confidence in there players will allow them to become more agressive and better play callers.

I hope you didn't mean Dennis Green. I like the Defense the way it is.

Jeff Garcia? I'll take Tarvaris and his future over him, It would take Jeff along time to get where even Tarvaris is with this offense, its not like stepping in and flipping burgers.

Screen passess are something we need to work on I can agree but at the same time I think our coach know what it takes to get it done.

Too be Honest I don't think we need to worry about AP getting the ball and if he's not Chester is doin a fine job.

One bad blitz that I can rember from the past game, on 3rd and long we sent a delayed safety blitz which never works and they capatlized with the first down. Horrible call on defense other than that its a matter of players doing there job. Fraizer has been a good D Cordinator, I would like to see more stunts on the DLine as move along in the season.

VikingsTw
09-12-2008, 12:27 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


As I recall, Brad Johnson ran the west coast offense well. Wiggins was a machine. Are you kidding me ? That guy was money !

I liked and still like Mike Tice. He had fire in his gut and he treated the players well and fired them up. He was also accountable. The thing I don't like about Childress is this whole "it is the system", "wait a bit...", "you don't get it" or "you don't get the complexity", bla, bla, bla.

I am so sick of him running AP off-tackle into a stacked box, that his QB can't throw us out of, and then saying that I need to wait and let the "system" work.


Brad Johnson was at the end of his days, he was an accurate intermediate passer who had to many dropped passes his last year but at the same time his arm is weak. Defenses gave no respect for our deep ball and watching Johnson drop in the pocket was painful. Wiggins was a machine in terms of hands but he lacked the speed needed for a deep threat TE and he couldn't block a skinny Cornerback.

I too think Tice was great Motivator and his players played hard but without discipline. I don't think our offense is far from being good, if it don't get where it needs to be this year I can forsee a future where Tarvaris, Rice, Allison, Peterson, Berrian get a chance to grow together and gain the type chemistry needed.

We didn't see any stacked Boxes vs the Packers they played straight up, at times we had success in both the running and passing game. The Packers had difficulties stopping our drives at times nad Peterson had a 100 yd day even though we had to play catchup.

jkjuggalo
09-12-2008, 12:34 AM
It is waaaaay to early in the season to think about replacing the coach.
Let's wait until week 16 or 17 before we start making that determination.
If we make the playoffs, I do not want us to switch coaches this offseason.
The only scenario that would make switching coaches make sense would be if one of the HoF coaches, i.e. Cowher/Schottenheimer, wants the job.

Vikes_King
09-12-2008, 01:26 AM
Childress

Rocks

V4L
09-12-2008, 01:32 AM
I dont blame Chilly

I blame Bevell

For the Colts game I wanna make a fire bevell sign

PurpleTide
09-12-2008, 05:53 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


It doens't need much of a title when StillPurple is posting we all know what he's about. IMO its a bit premature to throw Childress out the door unless you feel very confident he's getting ready to lead this team to an average or below average record. The problem I have with all the coaching staff bashing would be in due to the fact that players play and the coaches coach. Was it Brad Childress's fault that Kluwe kicked a line drive returned for a TD? Or that EJ Henderson got overseles on the Grant run? How about the way the refs performed? Fact of the matter is we got to much premature bashing going on this week, everyone wanted to win that game but we must understand there are 15 games to go and most importantly we get to rematch the Packers in our house.

Now I will say that if Childress's team stays healthy and underperforms there is an obvious issue but I don't see it headed in that direction, I'm gonna give it some time. I think a big win against the Colts this weak could start us off in the right direction, if not we got an uphill battle. In the End the results of this season will likely tell the story but I'm not about to bet against them.



+1, We'll come together, it takes a couple games to get rolling, and a emotional loss to the hated Pack really stirs the pot. Hold your water fella's, we will be alright.

Purple Floyd
09-12-2008, 07:00 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:



Brad Johnson was at the end of his days, he was an accurate intermediate passer who had to many dropped passes his last year but at the same time his arm is weak. Defenses gave no respect for our deep ball and watching Johnson drop in the pocket was painful. Wiggins was a machine in terms of hands but he lacked the speed needed for a deep threat TE and he couldn't block a skinny Cornerback.





So the reason to get rid of him was because he had too many dropped passes but the reason TJ isn't better is because the WR's can't catch?


His arm was not as strong as Jackson
's, but he proved that year he could get the ball downfield far enough( Go watch the Redskins and Panthers game highlights) but he didn't have:

-WR's who could get the separation to be open consistently on the deeper passes or the ability to haul them in when they were.

- An OL that would give the plays time to develop and for Johnson to make the progressions. Since he had no time for plays to fully develop he started to check down to the closer, faster developing routes.


Funny thing is last year he was gone and we saw the same things from Jackson, Bollinger and Holcolm to a lesser degree.

And this year many of the same things are evident with the exception of the fact that Jackson can throw the ball farther down the field to the WR's who cannot cash in on the plays due to lack of separation and he is not nearly as consistently accurate as Johnson was on the short to intermediate passes.

Zeus
09-12-2008, 07:20 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I have now officially lost confidence with Childress.


What a shocker.
I'm sure he's crying.

=Z=

The Dropper
09-12-2008, 08:25 AM
Brad Childress is my dad.

Webby
09-12-2008, 09:09 AM
"The" wrote:


Brad Childress is my dad.


He's my brother.

jargomcfargo
09-12-2008, 09:26 AM
"Webby" wrote:


"The" wrote:


Brad Childress is my dad.


He's my brother.



He aint heavy! That's a good thing for someone skating on thin ice!

Purple Floyd
09-12-2008, 09:27 AM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"Webby" wrote:


"The" wrote:


Brad Childress is my dad.


He's my brother.



He aint heavy! That's a good thing for someone skating on thin ice!


lol

C Mac D
09-12-2008, 09:31 AM
Bring back Mike Tice!!!!

Del Rio
09-12-2008, 09:58 AM
He inherited a team that was without a starting QB because Culpepper is a bitch. So the orginal posters first point is moot.

He is communicating much more with his players now according to Winfield which I would trust over
a butt hurt WR who was cut on X-mas.

C Mac D
09-12-2008, 10:00 AM
"Del" wrote:


He inherited a team that was without a starting QB because Culpepper is a bitch. So the orginal posters first point is moot.

He is communicating much more with his players now according to Winfield which I would trust over
a butt hurt WR who was cut on X-mas.


That says something about Chilly within itself.

Webby
09-12-2008, 10:00 AM
Holy crap, I just peed a little.


Clint is back and both barrels loaded.

Webby
09-12-2008, 10:01 AM
"C" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


He inherited a team that was without a starting QB because Culpepper is a beeyatch. So the orginal posters first point is moot.

He is communicating much more with his players now according to Winfield which I would trust over
a butt hurt WR who was cut on X-mas.


That says something about Chilly within itself.



Holy cow, I forgot about that....Chilly whacking a guy's job at Xmas.
I should look up that long screed I posted that got a few people upset.

ultravikingfan
09-12-2008, 10:26 AM
Childress is fucking Matt Damon.

C Mac D
09-12-2008, 10:27 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Childress is fucking Matt Damon.


Hahahaha... classic

Zeus
09-12-2008, 10:37 AM
"Webby" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


He inherited a team that was without a starting QB because Culpepper is a beeyatch. So the orginal posters first point is moot.

He is communicating much more with his players now according to Winfield which I would trust over
a butt hurt WR who was cut on X-mas.


That says something about Chilly within itself.



Holy cow, I forgot about that....Chilly whacking a guy's job at Xmas.

I should look up that long screed I posted that got a few people upset.


He was cut the day after Christmas.

http://www.nfl.com/transactions?transactionMonth=12&transactionYear=2006&transactionTeamAbbr=MIN&prevTransactionTeamAbbr=&prevTransactionMonth=12&prevTransactionYear=2006


Minnesota Vikings
12/26 Marcus Robinson (WR) cut.


5 days after the Vikings lost on 12/21 to the Packers in Green Bay in Tarvaris' first NFL start.

=Z=

Webby
09-12-2008, 10:46 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Webby" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


He inherited a team that was without a starting QB because Culpepper is a beeyatch. So the orginal posters first point is moot.

He is communicating much more with his players now according to Winfield which I would trust over
a butt hurt WR who was cut on X-mas.


That says something about Chilly within itself.



Holy cow, I forgot about that....Chilly whacking a guy's job at Xmas.

I should look up that long screed I posted that got a few people upset.


He was cut the day after Christmas.

http://www.nfl.com/transactions?transactionMonth=12&transactionYear=2006&transactionTeamAbbr=MIN&prevTransactionTeamAbbr=&prevTransactionMonth=12&prevTransactionYear=2006


Minnesota Vikings
12/26 Marcus Robinson (WR) cut.


5 days after the Vikings lost on 12/21 to the Packers in Green Bay in Tarvaris' first NFL start.

=Z=


Yeah, like I said.
He whacked a guy's job at Xmas.



I guess, to provide clarity and absolute dedication to perfection in my post, I should say, "He whacked a guy's job around Xmas, in the holiday season.
The day after Xmas falls within said holiday period between Xmas, the 25th, and New Years, January 1, the beginning of a new year.
I chime in with others who feel that this is a time of happiness and it is unfortunate in its timing."

Plus your little link and stat machine only points to the day it was recorded.

Stories at the time said that Marcus was *not* informed on the 26th, but prior.
Hmm.

BloodyHorns82
09-12-2008, 10:50 AM
"Webby" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Webby" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


He inherited a team that was without a starting QB because Culpepper is a beeyatch. So the orginal posters first point is moot.

He is communicating much more with his players now according to Winfield which I would trust over
a butt hurt WR who was cut on X-mas.


That says something about Chilly within itself.



Holy cow, I forgot about that....Chilly whacking a guy's job at Xmas.

I should look up that long screed I posted that got a few people upset.


He was cut the day after Christmas.

http://www.nfl.com/transactions?transactionMonth=12&transactionYear=2006&transactionTeamAbbr=MIN&prevTransactionTeamAbbr=&prevTransactionMonth=12&prevTransactionYear=2006


Minnesota Vikings
12/26 Marcus Robinson (WR) cut.


5 days after the Vikings lost on 12/21 to the Packers in Green Bay in Tarvaris' first NFL start.

=Z=


Yeah, like I said.

He whacked a guy's job at Xmas.



I guess, to provide clarity and absolute dedication to perfection in my post, I should say, "He whacked a guy's job around Xmas, in the holiday season.
The day after Xmas falls within said holiday period between Xmas, the 25th, and New Years, January 1, the beginning of a new year.

I chime in with others who feel that this is a time of happiness and it is unfortunate in its timing."

Plus your little link and stat machine only points to the day it was recorded.

Stories at the time said that Marcus was *not* informed on the 26th, but prior.

Hmm.




Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was informed (and it was made public) prior to 12/26...but regardless, what difference does it make?
I love the holiday season.

C Mac D
09-12-2008, 10:51 AM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was informed (and it was made public) prior to 12/26...but regardless, what difference does it make?
I love the holiday season.


Hilarious.

jargomcfargo
09-12-2008, 11:14 AM
Childress is jewish. Why the hell would he care?

StillPurple
09-12-2008, 11:15 AM
"A good coach uses the talent he has. A bad coach forces his system on the team".

- Joe Theismann

So which one is Chilly ?

PS - For the next Vikings game, I am putting on my Culpepper jersey and hit the sports bar. I miss the old days. It is my (very) small way of saying that.

C Mac D
09-12-2008, 11:16 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


"A good coach uses the talent he has. A bad coach forces his system on the team".

- Joe Theismann

So which one is Chilly ?




Holler

BloodyHorns82
09-12-2008, 11:20 AM
"C" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


"A good coach uses the talent he has. A bad coach forces his system on the team".

- Joe Theismann

So which one is Chilly ?




Holler


I'm giving him at least the first 8 games of the season before I officially hop on the "Fire Childress" bandwagon.


It would really suck to completely shake things up again and start over with a different coaching staff.

Del Rio
09-12-2008, 11:24 AM
There was a guy at work whos wife is pregnant just found out to. They fired his ass because he sucked at his job.

Fuck it. We work to make money.

They play to win. I dont care if it is xmas, your mammas birthday, if you just took a shit so big you cant sit down to take the news........gtfo if you cant do to job.

It does tell me something about childress it tells me he cares about winning, not feelings. I dont give a shit if he hurts some feelings and steps on some toes if he can turn us around get us into the playoffs then he could take a dump in everyones locker for all I care.

He better start winning soon though if he wants to make it right. If we go on to win the superbowl last year no one gives a shit about MROB and his hemroids.

Zeus
09-12-2008, 11:25 AM
"Webby" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Webby" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


He inherited a team that was without a starting QB because Culpepper is a beeyatch. So the orginal posters first point is moot.

He is communicating much more with his players now according to Winfield which I would trust over
a butt hurt WR who was cut on X-mas.


That says something about Chilly within itself.



Holy cow, I forgot about that....Chilly whacking a guy's job at Xmas.

I should look up that long screed I posted that got a few people upset.


He was cut the day after Christmas.

http://www.nfl.com/transactions?transactionMonth=12&transactionYear=2006&transactionTeamAbbr=MIN&prevTransactionTeamAbbr=&prevTransactionMonth=12&prevTransactionYear=2006


Minnesota Vikings
12/26 Marcus Robinson (WR) cut.


5 days after the Vikings lost on 12/21 to the Packers in Green Bay in Tarvaris' first NFL start.


Yeah, like I said.

He whacked a guy's job at Xmas.



I guess, to provide clarity and absolute dedication to perfection in my post, I should say, "He whacked a guy's job around Xmas, in the holiday season.
The day after Xmas falls within said holiday period between Xmas, the 25th, and New Years, January 1, the beginning of a new year.

I chime in with others who feel that this is a time of happiness and it is unfortunate in its timing."

Plus your little link and stat machine only points to the day it was recorded.

Stories at the time said that Marcus was *not* informed on the 26th, but prior.

Hmm.




I can only go with what is actually shown.
The 26th was a Monday, the first day of NFL business following the Christmas holiday (two games were played on Christmas Day that year).

What would you have preferred?
Whacking him on the 22nd, after the game?
Whacking him on the 26th?
Or whacking him on the 27th?

=Z=

Zeus
09-12-2008, 11:27 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


"A good coach uses the talent he has. A bad coach forces his system on the team".

- Joe Theismann

So which one is Chilly ?

PS - For the next Vikings game, I am putting on my Culpepper jersey and hit the sports bar. I miss the old days. It is my (very) small way of saying that.


A quote from the worst analyst in NFL broadcast history does not do much to support your position.

=Z=

Del Rio
09-12-2008, 11:27 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


"A good coach uses the talent he has. A bad coach forces his system on the team".

- Joe Theismann

So which one is Chilly ?

PS - For the next Vikings game, I am putting on my Culpepper jersey and hit the sports bar. I miss the old days. It is my (very) small way of saying that.


I wouldnt quote a guy who is on record as saying he isnt no Norman Einstein and try to connect to anything that represents something worth listening to.

jargomcfargo
09-12-2008, 11:32 AM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


"A good coach uses the talent he has. A bad coach forces his system on the team".

- Joe Theismann

So which one is Chilly ?




Holler


I'm giving him at least the first 8 games of the season before I officially hop on the "Fire Childress" bandwagon.


It would really suck to completely shake things up again and start over with a different coaching staff.



I agree but my patience is wearing a bit thin.
If TJ doesn't pan out, Childress has to go with him.
I've been supportive in the past. But this system just doesn't seem to be working.

I want a qb that can win games not manage them.

I want a pass coverage scheme that doesn't remind me of a prevent defense.

I want an offensive play call that totally catches the defense unprepaired and takes advantage of every mismatch and weakness.

I also found it so ironic that the packers kicker could kick the ball in the endzone and our former packer kicker can't.

Childress better get this ship sailing before long or there will be a lot more fans losing faith.

Zeus
09-12-2008, 11:35 AM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


I also found it so ironic that the packers kicker could kick the ball in the endzone and our former packer kicker can't.


I have Kluwe kicking off for the Vikings in Madden.

=Z=

BloodyHorns82
09-12-2008, 11:37 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


I also found it so ironic that the packers kicker could kick the ball in the endzone and our former packer kicker can't.


I have Kluwe kicking off for the Vikings in Madden.

=Z=




I just picked up some shitty FA kicker last night, at least he can kick the ball into the end zone.

jessejames09
09-12-2008, 11:44 AM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


I also found it so ironic that the packers kicker could kick the ball in the endzone and our former packer kicker can't.


I have Kluwe kicking off for the Vikings in Madden.

=Z=




I just picked up some shitty FA kicker last night, at least he can kick the ball into the end zone.


Rayner is money. As long as you keep Longwell for field goals, and stick in Rayner for 45+ yard attempts.

Maybe we should have kept Hausche(sp?)
in real life for the same purpose?

funkyasflea
09-12-2008, 11:50 AM
"jessejames09" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


I also found it so ironic that the packers kicker could kick the ball in the endzone and our former packer kicker can't.


I have Kluwe kicking off for the Vikings in Madden.

=Z=




I just picked up some poohie FA kicker last night, at least he can kick the ball into the end zone.


Rayner is money. As long as you keep Longwell for field goals, and stick in Rayner for 45+ yard attempts.

Maybe we should have kept Hausche(sp?)
in real life for the same purpose?


That guy was pretty terrible, I don't know if I would trust him with the KO

StillPurple
09-12-2008, 12:38 PM
I am not saying I would fire Childress this season. It is too late for that. I would give him this season. But if we go 8-8 or worse, he should be gone.

We could however fire Bevell and take the playcalling away from Brad. Bring in a guy who can run the offense. You don't have to fire the head coach to shake things up. I would maybe say to him, "ok, Brad, we have given Tarvaris 25 games, and now we 'need to move in a new direction'" <- corporate-speak for "we have lost confidence".

Leave the staff mostly in place, but purge it a bit too.

Bring in Jeff Garcia or someone like that.

How long do I have to wait before Brad's "system" starts to work ???

Del Rio
09-12-2008, 12:42 PM
Longer then one game.

But this is the season. They have spent, he has built, things seem stable. He gets the season IMO that includes all of his coaches.

Prophet
09-12-2008, 02:14 PM
"Del" wrote:


Longer then one game.

But this is the season. They have spent, he has built, things seem stable. He gets the season IMO that includes all of his coaches.


Longer than one game?
What are you?
A fucking idiot?

VikingsTw
09-12-2008, 02:15 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:



Brad Johnson was at the end of his days, he was an accurate intermediate passer who had to many dropped passes his last year but at the same time his arm is weak. Defenses gave no respect for our deep ball and watching Johnson drop in the pocket was painful. Wiggins was a machine in terms of hands but he lacked the speed needed for a deep threat TE and he couldn't block a skinny Cornerback.





So the reason to get rid of him was because he had too many dropped passes but the reason TJ isn't better is because the WR's can't catch?


His arm was not as strong as Jackson
's, but he proved that year he could get the ball downfield far enough( Go watch the Redskins and Panthers game highlights) but he didn't have:

-WR's who could get the separation to be open consistently on the deeper passes or the ability to haul them in when they were.

- An OL that would give the plays time to develop and for Johnson to make the progressions. Since he had no time for plays to fully develop he started to check down to the closer, faster developing routes.


Funny thing is last year he was gone and we saw the same things from Jackson, Bollinger and Holcolm to a lesser degree.

And this year many of the same things are evident with the exception of the fact that Jackson can throw the ball farther down the field to the WR's who cannot cash in on the plays due to lack of separation and he is not nearly as consistently accurate as Johnson was on the short to intermediate passes.


No Singer Jr. Brad Johnson was horrible, He was old and slow and we were ready to move on with the future allowing Tarvaris to get some early time as a Rookie. Remember the Jets game?

His arm was weak and the defense had no respect for the Deep Ball, he had one nice bomb to VS's the Lions where he hit Koren Robison.

Sounds alot like what Tarvaris dealt with those first two games and all last season, at least Brad had Marcus Robison and Koren Robison. Tarvaris also has the ability to escape trouble untill our Oline if ever plays up to there ability, Brad stood no chance behind a shaky Oline, at least Tarvaris can make something out of nothing.

I certainly wouldn't say that, Williamson dropped a few bombs from Tarvaris right in his chest (Plenty of Seperation), passess Brad Johnson would not have able to make. Jackson has been let down as much as Johnson in terms of WR's dropping passes, the only difference
here is we are getting our future ready. The only game we have played this year consisted of a couple bombs down field with some Pass Interference, two which were very catchable, I think it would wise to watch a few more games this season to see if we can get seperation.

IMO this a completely silly arguement, Brad Johnson's history and I couldn't be happier, Tarvaris is progressing and he's only played 15 full games.

Prophet
09-12-2008, 02:18 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


....Tarvaris is progressing and he's only played 15 full games.


Without the benefit of sitting on the bench and learning for three years like Rodgers.
Thrown into the fire, we'll see how he continues, but I have definitely seen improvements and I definitely see plenty of room for more improvement.
No time to panic.

NodakPaul
09-12-2008, 02:28 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I am not saying I would fire Childress this season. It is too late for that. I would give him this season. But if we go 8-8 or worse, he should be gone.


I agree.
But let's wait until we get that 8th loss before we start writing the season off...
::)

V4L
09-12-2008, 02:34 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


....Tarvaris is progressing and he's only played 15 full games.


Without the benefit of sitting on the bench and learning for three years like Rodgers.
Thrown into the fire, we'll see how he continues, but I have definitely seen improvements and I definitely see plenty of room for more improvement.
No time to panic.



Right there man

farvathevikinglover
09-12-2008, 02:43 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


....Tarvaris is progressing and he's only played 15 full games.


Without the benefit of sitting on the bench and learning for three years like Rodgers.
Thrown into the fire, we'll see how he continues, but I have definitely seen improvements and I definitely see plenty of room for more improvement.
No time to panic.



Right there man


Tjack optimism, all right! I'm tired of fending off the Booty calls.

V4L
09-12-2008, 02:48 PM
"farvathevikinglover" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


....Tarvaris is progressing and he's only played 15 full games.


Without the benefit of sitting on the bench and learning for three years like Rodgers.
Thrown into the fire, we'll see how he continues, but I have definitely seen improvements and I definitely see plenty of room for more improvement.
No time to panic.



Right there man


Tjack optimism, all right! I'm tired of fending off the Booty calls.




haha yah

Ive been fighting the good fight with you buddy

I strongly believe he did good things in the GB
game and has shown much improvment

He isnt progressing as fast as some want (I get frustrated at times too) but know you need more then 15 starts to do what people think he needs to

VikingsTw
09-12-2008, 02:57 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"farvathevikinglover" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


....Tarvaris is progressing and he's only played 15 full games.


Without the benefit of sitting on the bench and learning for three years like Rodgers.
Thrown into the fire, we'll see how he continues, but I have definitely seen improvements and I definitely see plenty of room for more improvement.
No time to panic.



Right there man


Tjack optimism, all right! I'm tired of fending off the Booty calls.




haha yah

Ive been fighting the good fight with you buddy

I strongly believe he did good things in the GB
game and has shown much improvment

He isnt progressing as fast as some want (I get frustrated at times too) but know you need more then 15 starts to do what people think he needs to



Thats certainly the way I felt, I didn't expect Tarvaris to come out throwing like McNabb or Peyton and I know there are still growing pains to be had and I expect them.

What we want to avoid is High Interception numbers that could loose us games. He needs to use his dump offs more often, it took Culpepper awhile to start doing this but once he did it really helped his numbers. Moe Williams was Killer for him. Tarvaris is still growing and fans are impatient but he must put some W's on the board and like Caine said eventually become the "Man". I think tightening things up on specail teams and not self destructing on a couple plays defensively will give him a better chance to win games. The Accuracy must improve but it wasn't long ago Fans were down on both McNabb and Eli Manning for inaccurate throws. He will improve he's yet to prove otherwise.

V4L
09-12-2008, 03:00 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"farvathevikinglover" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:




....Tarvaris is progressing and he's only played 15 full games.


Without the benefit of sitting on the bench and learning for three years like Rodgers.
Thrown into the fire, we'll see how he continues, but I have definitely seen improvements and I definitely see plenty of room for more improvement.
No time to panic.



Right there man


Tjack optimism, all right! I'm tired of fending off the Booty calls.




haha yah

Ive been fighting the good fight with you buddy

I strongly believe he did good things in the GB
game and has shown much improvment

He isnt progressing as fast as some want (I get frustrated at times too) but know you need more then 15 starts to do what people think he needs to



Thats certainly the way I felt, I didn't expect Tarvaris to come out throwing like McNabb or Peyton and I know there are still growing pains to be had and I expect them.

What we want to avoid is High Interception numbers that could loose us games. He needs to use his dump offs more often, it took Culpepper awhile to start doing this but once he did it really helped his numbers. Moe Williams was Killer for him. Tarvaris is still growing and fans are impatient but he must put some W's on the board and like Caine said eventually become the "Man". I think tightening things up on specail teams and not self destructing on a couple plays defensively will give him a better chance to win games. The Accuracy must improve but it wasn't long ago Fans were down on both McNabb and Eli Manning for inaccurate throws. He will improve he's yet to prove otherwise.



Preach on brotha!

Prophet
09-12-2008, 03:00 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


...but it wasn't long ago Fans were down on both McNabb and Eli Manning for inaccurate throws. He will improve he's yet to prove otherwise.


Toward the end of last season many Jints fans were calling for Eli's head.
The norm is for fans to be mentally retarded, letting emotions override any form of logic.
I guess that makes it fun.

StillPurple
09-12-2008, 03:44 PM
Well, fans also have the tendency to call whatever they favor "logic", whereas, whatever the other guy is arguing for is "emotion".

One could say that the devotion to Tarvaris and/or Childress is also emotion, and that to go in a new direction is "logic".

I personally don't think that bringing in a new system and then imposing it on a team and saying "damn the torpedos, this is about the system" is maybe a f***ed up form of emotion.

Prophet
09-12-2008, 03:48 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Well, fans also have the tendency to call whatever they favor "logic", whereas, whatever the other guy is arguing for is "emotion".

One could say that the devotion to Tarvaris and/or Childress is also emotion, and that to go in a new direction is "logic".


Or, one could say that a QB that has started 15 games still has time to develop.
Or one could say that Childress has this season before making him walk the plank.
Or one could say that apple grandes are better than totinos pizzas.
Or one could say that illogical drivel is logical.
One could say many things.

marstc09
09-15-2008, 10:19 PM
The Vikings should have let the Packers hire Childress.
>:(

BadlandsVikings
09-15-2008, 11:23 PM
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/westvirginiavikings/f8cb34dc-d966-40d1-9021-6413652ad8e.jpg

tb04512
09-15-2008, 11:26 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Well, fans also have the tendency to call whatever they favor "logic", whereas, whatever the other guy is arguing for is "emotion".

One could say that the devotion to Tarvaris and/or Childress is also emotion, and that to go in a new direction is "logic".


Or, one could say that a QB that has started 15 games still has time to develop.
Or one could say that Childress has this season before making him walk the plank.
Or one could say that apple grandes are better than totinos pizzas.
Or one could say that illogical drivel is logical.
One could say many things.


thats just silly, everyone knows that Totinos pizzas are better
;D