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COJOMAY
08-14-2008, 03:41 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ams7Yjd3TEAi5AqqTpGDMB9DubYF?slug=ms-minnesota081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


It has been a long, hot summer for Tarvaris Jackson, much of it spent living up to what Minnesota Vikings coach Brad Childress says is the young quarterback’s motto: Never let ‘em see you sweat.

It start out with the Jackson/Farve controversy but about halfway though the article it become very good reading.

midgensa
08-14-2008, 03:52 PM
That is a pretty good read. Nice to see some articles not just saying he CAN'T get the job done. T-Jack knows what is ahead of him and is working hard. Hopefully it pays off in the end for him and for the fans.

gamecocksbaseball31
08-14-2008, 09:21 PM
Nice read.
With T-Jack in his 2nd year starting 3rd year in the system, I think we are going to be alright.
With him looking to pass first instead of take off and run, that is also going to help our running attack once he proves himself.

ultravikingfan
08-15-2008, 03:47 AM
Please title thread the same as the article you are linking, thanks

PurpleTide
08-15-2008, 06:18 AM
Good reading, it's time for Tarvaris to take a big step in showing us he is the Viking's QB. He should start to make better reads and become more comfortable in the pocket. I expect the playbook to open up some too, and we won't be so darn predictable, even if AD is in, it won't mean run everytime, we should have much better success fooling defenses with more plays and variation of formations.

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 06:24 AM
Thanks for the read my friend.


“Dawg,” he replied, “you say that (expletive) again and I’m gonna fight you.”

Good thing TJ can outrun Phat Pat.
;D

BleedinPandG
08-15-2008, 06:46 AM
"PurpleTide" wrote:



Good reading, it's time for Tarvaris to take a big step in showing us he is the Viking's QB. He should start to make better reads and become more comfortable in the pocket. I expect the playbook to open up some too, and we won't be so darn predictable, even if AD is in, it won't mean run everytime, we should have much better success fooling defenses with more plays and variation of formations.


The playbook opening up to pass with AD in has nothing to do with TJack's ability to read Defenses, it had to do with AD's in ability to pick up blitzes and pass block.
TJ had his issues but he was not the reason they ran the ball every time AD was on the field.

StillPurple
08-15-2008, 01:17 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

Yfz01
08-15-2008, 01:36 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.


Dont worry, everyone knows Romo cant win in the playoffs.

DustinDupont
08-15-2008, 01:51 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.



Did you see what happened in the the Denver game when we down 14 points? TJack is the sole reason that we got that game into overtime, he just hasnt had the chances to the spread the offense. Also in the redskins game, yeah he sucked at the beginning of the game... but later in the game when we needed to move the ball down the field i thought he looked pretty good... I think he will do just fine ;D

Json
08-15-2008, 01:51 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

Dont worry, everyone knows Romo cant win in the playoffs.

LMAO!
:)

seaniemck7
08-15-2008, 03:42 PM
I have a $100 bet with a buddy that TJack will have a better QB rating than Jason Campbell this year.
I am pumped to watch him play this year.

happy camper
08-15-2008, 03:50 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.


I would rather have this quarterbacks you mentioned as well.

But we don't have them. Some teams have to make it through with what they have.

I never thought Eli Manning could win the superbowl. Eli frickin' Manning.

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 04:21 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.
You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.
Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.

Formo
08-15-2008, 04:42 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.


While I respect your concern of the uncertainty of T-Jack...
There's no such thing as having certainty in a QB.
Someone already mentioned Eli Manning..

Look, no matter who you have behind center, you'll ALWAYS have to have faith.
You can claim to have knowledge of a QBs ability, but you can never forsee their upcoming season.

StillPurple
08-15-2008, 04:51 PM
Yes, and those teams that don't have good QBs don't advance in the playoffs. Let's just say it is what it is.

I do think the Vikings could still advance, based on one or more of the following:

a. Really, really "sick" defense (the kind the Ravens had when they won it)
b. Us not falling behind in games
::)
c. Tarvaris being just good enough - a la Eli Manning ('driving the bus')

Could happen...

Purple Floyd
08-15-2008, 04:53 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.
You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.
Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.



I understand what you are saying, but the part about blaming the last regime for refusing to grow QB's is just plain wrong. They had a QB in Culpepper who was a Pro bowler in 2004 and was in his prime. They backed him up with veterans who could come in and win if they were called on and they usually had a young guy on the roster as a third stringer.

When Culpepper got hurt in 2005 they had Johnson as a backup who came in and played great in relief. That situation is not all that different from where we are now except that Culpepper had more experience than Jackson and had also been tested, where Jackson is still largely unproven.

The last regime always made sure they had veteran QB's on the roster that they knew could run the offense if the starter faltered and when Green was here he had a system ( Or more accurately the personnel) that he could bring in a QB in the offseason and by the time the season rolled around they would be able to run it. None of this half a decade learning curve stuff that we get fed from the current staff.

DaunteHOF
08-15-2008, 05:19 PM
tjack will be wat mike vick was supposed to be...watch

marstc09
08-15-2008, 05:41 PM
“You throw another (expletive) pick, I’m gonna come out there and choke you right on the sidelines,” Williams told Jackson.

Everything I wanted to say to him last year.
8)

Purple Floyd
08-15-2008, 05:44 PM
"DaunteHOF" wrote:


tjack will be wat mike vick was supposed to be...watch



You mean the best pit bull breeder in the world?

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 08:48 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.

You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.

Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.



I understand what you are saying, but the part about blaming the last regime for refusing to grow QB's is just plain wrong. They had a QB in Culpepper who was a Pro bowler in 2004 and was in his prime. They backed him up with veterans who could come in and win if they were called on and they usually had a young guy on the roster as a third stringer.

When Culpepper got hurt in 2005 they had Johnson as a backup who came in and played great in relief. That situation is not all that different from where we are now except that Culpepper had more experience than Jackson and had also been tested, where Jackson is still largely unproven.

The last regime always made sure they had veteran QB's on the roster that they knew could run the offense if the starter faltered and when Green was here he had a system ( Or more accurately the personnel) that he could bring in a QB in the offseason and by the time the season rolled around they would be able to run it. None of this half a decade learning curve stuff that we get fed from the current staff.

And how did that work out for us?

Pepp bugged out.
Johnson was used up.
There were no young guys as you contend.

Long story short, the right way to keep consistency at the QB level is to raise them in the system and not only to start but to act as backups/the future as well and not to have to go out and try to find has beens or never wases ( ;D).
Very few teams let thier QB's of value hit the market and the ones that do hit the streets don't happen very often and are usually snatched up pretty quick.

If the previous regime wouldn't have rested on its laurels (we have Pepp were set) there would have been a young kid that had been in the system for 2 or 3 years, learning from the bench and would have been ready to go.

One thing I like about this staff.
It appears they are gonna continually address the QB position each and every year to the point we have 3 or 4 QB's grown in this system in various stages of readiness.

By the way, those young guys you mentioned quit coming around years ago as you have to go back to Pepp to see a QB drafted, not by the last regime but the regime before that...... ;D

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3000&type=team

2005 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Troy Williamson
WR South Carolina
1 18 Erasmus James
DE Wisconsin
2 49 Marcus Johnson
G Mississippi
3 80 Dustin Fox
DB Ohio State
4 112 Ciatrick Fason
RB Florida
6 191 C.J. Mosley
DT Missouri
7 219 Adrian Ward
-- Texas-El Paso

2004 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Kenechi Udeze
DE USC
2 48 Dontarrious Thomas
OLB Auburn
3 88 Darrion Scott
DE Ohio State
4 115 Nat Dorsey
T Georgia Tech
4 119 Mewelde Moore
RB Tulane
5 155 Rod Davis
LB Southern Mississippi
6 184 Deandre' Eiland
DB South Carolina
7 220 Jeff Dugan
TE Maryland

2003 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 9 Kevin Williams
DE Oklahoma State
2 40 E.J. Henderson
LB Maryland
3 71 Nate Burleson
WR Nevada-Reno
4 105 Onterrio Smith
RB Oregon
6 180 Eddie Johnson
P Idaho State
6 190 Michael Nattiel
LB Florida
7 221 Keenan Howry
WR Oregon

2002 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Bryant McKinnie
T Miami (Fla.)
2 38 Raonall Smith
LB Washington State
3 70 Willie Offord
SS South Carolina
4 105 Brian Williams
CB North Carolina State
4 132 Ed Ta'amu
-- Utah
6 177 Nick Rogers
OLB Georgia Tech
7 218 Chad Beasley
DT Virginia Tech

2001 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 Michael Bennett
RB Wisconsin
2 57 Willie Howard
DT Stanford
3 69 Eric Kelly
CB Kentucky
4 130 Shawn Worthen
DT Texas Christian
4 131 Cedric James
WR Texas Christian
5 157 Patrick Chukwurah
LB Wyoming
6 189 Carey Scott
CB Kentucky State
7 225 Brian Crawford
T Western Oregon

2000 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Chris Hovan
DT Boston College
2 55 Fred Robbins
DT Wake Forest
2 56 Michael Boireau
DE Miami (Fla.)
3 88 Doug Chapman
RB Marshall
4 106 Antonio Wilson
LB Texas A&M-Commerce
4 118 Tyrone Carter
FS Minnesota
5 165 Troy Walters
WR Stanford
7 240 Mike Malano
G San Diego State
7 244 Giles Cole
-- Texas A&M - Kingsville
7 248 Lewis Kelly
G South Carolina State

1999 - Minnesota Vikings (QB Drafted)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Daunte Culpepper
QB Central Florida
1 29 Dimitrius Underwood
DE Michigan State
2 44 Jimmy Kleinsasser
FB North Dakota
4 120 Kenny Wright
CB Northwestern State-Louisiana
4 125 Jay Humphrey
T Texas
5 169 Chris Jones
LB Clemson
6 185 Talance Sawyer
DE Nevada-Las Vegas
6 199 Antico Dalton
LB Hampton
7 236 Noel Scarlett
DT Langston

BerkleeVikesFan80
08-15-2008, 09:01 PM
Its nice to see Jackson getting a nice article for a change.
I was watching Vince Young tonight and i just dont understand why everybody says Jackson is holding us back from a superbowl and then in the same breath say Tennessee dosen't provide enough weapons for Vince Young.
Jackson is looking better and when i was watching vince young tonight he just looked lost.

singersp
08-15-2008, 09:21 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.
You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.
Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.



I understand what you are saying, but the part about blaming the last regime for refusing to grow QB's is just plain wrong. They had a QB in Culpepper who was a Pro bowler in 2004 and was in his prime. They backed him up with veterans who could come in and win if they were called on and they usually had a young guy on the roster as a third stringer.

When Culpepper got hurt in 2005 they had Johnson as a backup who came in and played great in relief. That situation is not all that different from where we are now except that Culpepper had more experience than Jackson and had also been tested, where Jackson is still largely unproven.

The last regime always made sure they had veteran QB's on the roster that they knew could run the offense if the starter faltered and when Green was here he had a system ( Or more accurately the personnel) that he could bring in a QB in the offseason and by the time the season rolled around they would be able to run it. None of this half a decade learning curve stuff that we get fed from the current staff.

And how did that work out for us?

Pepp bugged out.
Johnson was used up.
There were no young guys as you contend.

Long story short, the right way to keep consistency at the QB level is to raise them in the system and not only to start but to act as backups/the future as well and not to have to go out and try to find has beens or never wases ( ;D).
Very few teams let thier QB's of value hit the market and the ones that do hit the streets don't happen very often and are usually snatched up pretty quick.

If the previous regime wouldn't have rested on its laurels (we have Pepp were set) there would have been a young kid that had been in the system for 2 or 3 years, learning from the bench and would have been ready to go.

One thing I like about this staff.
It appears they are gonna continually address the QB position each and every year to the point we have 3 or 4 QB's grown in this system in various stages of readiness.

By the way, those young guys you mentioned quit coming around years ago as you have to go back to Pepp to see a QB drafted, not by the last regime but the regime before that...... ;D

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3000&type=team

2005 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Troy Williamson
WR South Carolina
1 18 Erasmus James
DE Wisconsin
2 49 Marcus Johnson
G Mississippi
3 80 Dustin Fox
DB Ohio State
4 112 Ciatrick Fason
RB Florida
6 191 C.J. Mosley
DT Missouri
7 219 Adrian Ward
-- Texas-El Paso

2004 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Kenechi Udeze
DE USC
2 48 Dontarrious Thomas
OLB Auburn
3 88 Darrion Scott
DE Ohio State
4 115 Nat Dorsey
T Georgia Tech
4 119 Mewelde Moore
RB Tulane
5 155 Rod Davis
LB Southern Mississippi
6 184 Deandre' Eiland
DB South Carolina
7 220 Jeff Dugan
TE Maryland

2003 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 9 Kevin Williams
DE Oklahoma State
2 40 E.J. Henderson
LB Maryland
3 71 Nate Burleson
WR Nevada-Reno
4 105 Onterrio Smith
RB Oregon
6 180 Eddie Johnson
P Idaho State
6 190 Michael Nattiel
LB Florida
7 221 Keenan Howry
WR Oregon

2002 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Bryant McKinnie
T Miami (Fla.)
2 38 Raonall Smith
LB Washington State
3 70 Willie Offord
SS South Carolina
4 105 Brian Williams
CB North Carolina State
4 132 Ed Ta'amu
-- Utah
6 177 Nick Rogers
OLB Georgia Tech
7 218 Chad Beasley
DT Virginia Tech

2001 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 Michael Bennett
RB Wisconsin
2 57 Willie Howard
DT Stanford
3 69 Eric Kelly
CB Kentucky
4 130 Shawn Worthen
DT Texas Christian
4 131 Cedric James
WR Texas Christian
5 157 Patrick Chukwurah
LB Wyoming
6 189 Carey Scott
CB Kentucky State
7 225 Brian Crawford
T Western Oregon

2000 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Chris Hovan
DT Boston College
2 55 Fred Robbins
DT Wake Forest
2 56 Michael Boireau
DE Miami (Fla.)
3 88 Doug Chapman
RB Marshall
4 106 Antonio Wilson
LB Texas A&M-Commerce
4 118 Tyrone Carter
FS Minnesota
5 165 Troy Walters
WR Stanford
7 240 Mike Malano
G San Diego State
7 244 Giles Cole
-- Texas A&M - Kingsville
7 248 Lewis Kelly
G South Carolina State

1999 - Minnesota Vikings (QB Drafted)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Daunte Culpepper
QB Central Florida
1 29 Dimitrius Underwood
DE Michigan State
2 44 Jimmy Kleinsasser
FB North Dakota
4 120 Kenny Wright
CB Northwestern State-Louisiana
4 125 Jay Humphrey
T Texas
5 169 Chris Jones
LB Clemson
6 185 Talance Sawyer
DE Nevada-Las Vegas
6 199 Antico Dalton
LB Hampton
7 236 Noel Scarlett
DT Langston



LOL Marr, surely you jest. The previous regime didn't just rest their laurels on Culpepper & some old vets.

The "Beast" must have affected your memory. Fact is there were 3 young QB's brought in during the years you listed.

Todd Bouman (2001-2002) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Romaro Miller (2001) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Shaun Hill (2002-2005) was signed as an UDFA in 2002

vikinggreg
08-15-2008, 09:39 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.

You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.

Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.



I understand what you are saying, but the part about blaming the last regime for refusing to grow QB's is just plain wrong. They had a QB in Culpepper who was a Pro bowler in 2004 and was in his prime. They backed him up with veterans who could come in and win if they were called on and they usually had a young guy on the roster as a third stringer.

When Culpepper got hurt in 2005 they had Johnson as a backup who came in and played great in relief. That situation is not all that different from where we are now except that Culpepper had more experience than Jackson and had also been tested, where Jackson is still largely unproven.

The last regime always made sure they had veteran QB's on the roster that they knew could run the offense if the starter faltered and when Green was here he had a system ( Or more accurately the personnel) that he could bring in a QB in the offseason and by the time the season rolled around they would be able to run it. None of this half a decade learning curve stuff that we get fed from the current staff.

And how did that work out for us?

Pepp bugged out.
Johnson was used up.
There were no young guys as you contend.

Long story short, the right way to keep consistency at the QB level is to raise them in the system and not only to start but to act as backups/the future as well and not to have to go out and try to find has beens or never wases ( ;D).
Very few teams let thier QB's of value hit the market and the ones that do hit the streets don't happen very often and are usually snatched up pretty quick.

If the previous regime wouldn't have rested on its laurels (we have Pepp were set) there would have been a young kid that had been in the system for 2 or 3 years, learning from the bench and would have been ready to go.

One thing I like about this staff.
It appears they are gonna continually address the QB position each and every year to the point we have 3 or 4 QB's grown in this system in various stages of readiness.

By the way, those young guys you mentioned quit coming around years ago as you have to go back to Pepp to see a QB drafted, not by the last regime but the regime before that...... ;D

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3000&type=team

2005 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Troy Williamson
WR South Carolina
1 18 Erasmus James
DE Wisconsin
2 49 Marcus Johnson
G Mississippi
3 80 Dustin Fox
DB Ohio State
4 112 Ciatrick Fason
RB Florida
6 191 C.J. Mosley
DT Missouri
7 219 Adrian Ward
-- Texas-El Paso

2004 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Kenechi Udeze
DE USC
2 48 Dontarrious Thomas
OLB Auburn
3 88 Darrion Scott
DE Ohio State
4 115 Nat Dorsey
T Georgia Tech
4 119 Mewelde Moore
RB Tulane
5 155 Rod Davis
LB Southern Mississippi
6 184 Deandre' Eiland
DB South Carolina
7 220 Jeff Dugan
TE Maryland

2003 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 9 Kevin Williams
DE Oklahoma State
2 40 E.J. Henderson
LB Maryland
3 71 Nate Burleson
WR Nevada-Reno
4 105 Onterrio Smith
RB Oregon
6 180 Eddie Johnson
P Idaho State
6 190 Michael Nattiel
LB Florida
7 221 Keenan Howry
WR Oregon

2002 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Bryant McKinnie
T Miami (Fla.)
2 38 Raonall Smith
LB Washington State
3 70 Willie Offord
SS South Carolina
4 105 Brian Williams
CB North Carolina State
4 132 Ed Ta'amu
-- Utah
6 177 Nick Rogers
OLB Georgia Tech
7 218 Chad Beasley
DT Virginia Tech

2001 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 Michael Bennett
RB Wisconsin
2 57 Willie Howard
DT Stanford
3 69 Eric Kelly
CB Kentucky
4 130 Shawn Worthen
DT Texas Christian
4 131 Cedric James
WR Texas Christian
5 157 Patrick Chukwurah
LB Wyoming
6 189 Carey Scott
CB Kentucky State
7 225 Brian Crawford
T Western Oregon

2000 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Chris Hovan
DT Boston College
2 55 Fred Robbins
DT Wake Forest
2 56 Michael Boireau
DE Miami (Fla.)
3 88 Doug Chapman
RB Marshall
4 106 Antonio Wilson
LB Texas A&M-Commerce
4 118 Tyrone Carter
FS Minnesota
5 165 Troy Walters
WR Stanford
7 240 Mike Malano
G San Diego State
7 244 Giles Cole
-- Texas A&M - Kingsville
7 248 Lewis Kelly
G South Carolina State

1999 - Minnesota Vikings (QB Drafted)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Daunte Culpepper
QB Central Florida
1 29 Dimitrius Underwood
DE Michigan State
2 44 Jimmy Kleinsasser
FB North Dakota
4 120 Kenny Wright
CB Northwestern State-Louisiana
4 125 Jay Humphrey
T Texas
5 169 Chris Jones
LB Clemson
6 185 Talance Sawyer
DE Nevada-Las Vegas
6 199 Antico Dalton
LB Hampton
7 236 Noel Scarlett
DT Langston



LOL Marr, surely you jest. The previous regime didn't just rest their laurels on Culpepper & some old vets.

The "Beast" must have affected your memory. Fact is there were 3 young QB's brought in during the years you listed.

Todd Bouman (2001-2002) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Romaro Miller (2001) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Shaun Hill (2002-2005) was signed as an UDFA in 2002


What about Billy Cockerham 2000 UDFA, Miller took his spot as # 3 in 2001

Then there was that ...? Wynn guy

Kevin Thompson in 2003 who battle Juston Wood UDFA from Portland State

Matt Kagel in 2004 UDFA from Washington State

singersp
08-15-2008, 09:52 PM
"vikinggreg" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:




Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.
You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.
Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.



I understand what you are saying, but the part about blaming the last regime for refusing to grow QB's is just plain wrong. They had a QB in Culpepper who was a Pro bowler in 2004 and was in his prime. They backed him up with veterans who could come in and win if they were called on and they usually had a young guy on the roster as a third stringer.

When Culpepper got hurt in 2005 they had Johnson as a backup who came in and played great in relief. That situation is not all that different from where we are now except that Culpepper had more experience than Jackson and had also been tested, where Jackson is still largely unproven.

The last regime always made sure they had veteran QB's on the roster that they knew could run the offense if the starter faltered and when Green was here he had a system ( Or more accurately the personnel) that he could bring in a QB in the offseason and by the time the season rolled around they would be able to run it. None of this half a decade learning curve stuff that we get fed from the current staff.

And how did that work out for us?

Pepp bugged out.
Johnson was used up.
There were no young guys as you contend.

Long story short, the right way to keep consistency at the QB level is to raise them in the system and not only to start but to act as backups/the future as well and not to have to go out and try to find has beens or never wases ( ;D).
Very few teams let thier QB's of value hit the market and the ones that do hit the streets don't happen very often and are usually snatched up pretty quick.

If the previous regime wouldn't have rested on its laurels (we have Pepp were set) there would have been a young kid that had been in the system for 2 or 3 years, learning from the bench and would have been ready to go.

One thing I like about this staff.
It appears they are gonna continually address the QB position each and every year to the point we have 3 or 4 QB's grown in this system in various stages of readiness.

By the way, those young guys you mentioned quit coming around years ago as you have to go back to Pepp to see a QB drafted, not by the last regime but the regime before that...... ;D

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3000&type=team

2005 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Troy Williamson
WR South Carolina
1 18 Erasmus James
DE Wisconsin
2 49 Marcus Johnson
G Mississippi
3 80 Dustin Fox
DB Ohio State
4 112 Ciatrick Fason
RB Florida
6 191 C.J. Mosley
DT Missouri
7 219 Adrian Ward
-- Texas-El Paso

2004 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Kenechi Udeze
DE USC
2 48 Dontarrious Thomas
OLB Auburn
3 88 Darrion Scott
DE Ohio State
4 115 Nat Dorsey
T Georgia Tech
4 119 Mewelde Moore
RB Tulane
5 155 Rod Davis
LB Southern Mississippi
6 184 Deandre' Eiland
DB South Carolina
7 220 Jeff Dugan
TE Maryland

2003 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 9 Kevin Williams
DE Oklahoma State
2 40 E.J. Henderson
LB Maryland
3 71 Nate Burleson
WR Nevada-Reno
4 105 Onterrio Smith
RB Oregon
6 180 Eddie Johnson
P Idaho State
6 190 Michael Nattiel
LB Florida
7 221 Keenan Howry
WR Oregon

2002 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Bryant McKinnie
T Miami (Fla.)
2 38 Raonall Smith
LB Washington State
3 70 Willie Offord
SS South Carolina
4 105 Brian Williams
CB North Carolina State
4 132 Ed Ta'amu
-- Utah
6 177 Nick Rogers
OLB Georgia Tech
7 218 Chad Beasley
DT Virginia Tech

2001 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 Michael Bennett
RB Wisconsin
2 57 Willie Howard
DT Stanford
3 69 Eric Kelly
CB Kentucky
4 130 Shawn Worthen
DT Texas Christian
4 131 Cedric James
WR Texas Christian
5 157 Patrick Chukwurah
LB Wyoming
6 189 Carey Scott
CB Kentucky State
7 225 Brian Crawford
T Western Oregon

2000 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Chris Hovan
DT Boston College
2 55 Fred Robbins
DT Wake Forest
2 56 Michael Boireau
DE Miami (Fla.)
3 88 Doug Chapman
RB Marshall
4 106 Antonio Wilson
LB Texas A&M-Commerce
4 118 Tyrone Carter
FS Minnesota
5 165 Troy Walters
WR Stanford
7 240 Mike Malano
G San Diego State
7 244 Giles Cole
-- Texas A&M - Kingsville
7 248 Lewis Kelly
G South Carolina State

1999 - Minnesota Vikings (QB Drafted)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Daunte Culpepper
QB Central Florida
1 29 Dimitrius Underwood
DE Michigan State
2 44 Jimmy Kleinsasser
FB North Dakota
4 120 Kenny Wright
CB Northwestern State-Louisiana
4 125 Jay Humphrey
T Texas
5 169 Chris Jones
LB Clemson
6 185 Talance Sawyer
DE Nevada-Las Vegas
6 199 Antico Dalton
LB Hampton
7 236 Noel Scarlett
DT Langston



LOL Marr, surely you jest. The previous regime didn't just rest their laurels on Culpepper & some old vets.

The "Beast" must have affected your memory. Fact is there were 3 young QB's brought in during the years you listed.

Todd Bouman (2001-2002) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Romaro Miller (2001) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Shaun Hill (2002-2005) was signed as an UDFA in 2002


What about Billy Cockerham 2000 UDFA, Miller took his spot as # 3 in 2001

Then there was that ...? Wynn guy

Kevin Thompson in 2003 who battle Juston Wood UDFA from Portland State

Matt Kagel in 2004 UDFA from Washington State


There were others as you mentioned that were brought in, but I only listed those that made the roster in 1999-2005 (The years Marr referenced) & only those that were signed as UDFA's.

Spergon Wynn was here in 2001, but he wasn't drafted by the Vikings or picked up as an UDFA. He had been previously signed by the Browns in 2000.

Purple Floyd
08-15-2008, 10:29 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.
You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.
Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.



I understand what you are saying, but the part about blaming the last regime for refusing to grow QB's is just plain wrong. They had a QB in Culpepper who was a Pro bowler in 2004 and was in his prime. They backed him up with veterans who could come in and win if they were called on and they usually had a young guy on the roster as a third stringer.

When Culpepper got hurt in 2005 they had Johnson as a backup who came in and played great in relief. That situation is not all that different from where we are now except that Culpepper had more experience than Jackson and had also been tested, where Jackson is still largely unproven.

The last regime always made sure they had veteran QB's on the roster that they knew could run the offense if the starter faltered and when Green was here he had a system ( Or more accurately the personnel) that he could bring in a QB in the offseason and by the time the season rolled around they would be able to run it. None of this half a decade learning curve stuff that we get fed from the current staff.

And how did that work out for us?

Pepp bugged out.
Johnson was used up.
There were no young guys as you contend.

Long story short, the right way to keep consistency at the QB level is to raise them in the system and not only to start but to act as backups/the future as well and not to have to go out and try to find has beens or never wases ( ;D).
Very few teams let thier QB's of value hit the market and the ones that do hit the streets don't happen very often and are usually snatched up pretty quick.

If the previous regime wouldn't have rested on its laurels (we have Pepp were set) there would have been a young kid that had been in the system for 2 or 3 years, learning from the bench and would have been ready to go.

One thing I like about this staff.
It appears they are gonna continually address the QB position each and every year to the point we have 3 or 4 QB's grown in this system in various stages of readiness.

By the way, those young guys you mentioned quit coming around years ago as you have to go back to Pepp to see a QB drafted, not by the last regime but the regime before that...... ;D

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3000&type=team

2005 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Troy Williamson
WR South Carolina
1 18 Erasmus James
DE Wisconsin
2 49 Marcus Johnson
G Mississippi
3 80 Dustin Fox
DB Ohio State
4 112 Ciatrick Fason
RB Florida
6 191 C.J. Mosley
DT Missouri
7 219 Adrian Ward
-- Texas-El Paso

2004 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Kenechi Udeze
DE USC
2 48 Dontarrious Thomas
OLB Auburn
3 88 Darrion Scott
DE Ohio State
4 115 Nat Dorsey
T Georgia Tech
4 119 Mewelde Moore
RB Tulane
5 155 Rod Davis
LB Southern Mississippi
6 184 Deandre' Eiland
DB South Carolina
7 220 Jeff Dugan
TE Maryland

2003 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 9 Kevin Williams
DE Oklahoma State
2 40 E.J. Henderson
LB Maryland
3 71 Nate Burleson
WR Nevada-Reno
4 105 Onterrio Smith
RB Oregon
6 180 Eddie Johnson
P Idaho State
6 190 Michael Nattiel
LB Florida
7 221 Keenan Howry
WR Oregon

2002 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Bryant McKinnie
T Miami (Fla.)
2 38 Raonall Smith
LB Washington State
3 70 Willie Offord
SS South Carolina
4 105 Brian Williams
CB North Carolina State
4 132 Ed Ta'amu
-- Utah
6 177 Nick Rogers
OLB Georgia Tech
7 218 Chad Beasley
DT Virginia Tech

2001 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 Michael Bennett
RB Wisconsin
2 57 Willie Howard
DT Stanford
3 69 Eric Kelly
CB Kentucky
4 130 Shawn Worthen
DT Texas Christian
4 131 Cedric James
WR Texas Christian
5 157 Patrick Chukwurah
LB Wyoming
6 189 Carey Scott
CB Kentucky State
7 225 Brian Crawford
T Western Oregon

2000 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Chris Hovan
DT Boston College
2 55 Fred Robbins
DT Wake Forest
2 56 Michael Boireau
DE Miami (Fla.)
3 88 Doug Chapman
RB Marshall
4 106 Antonio Wilson
LB Texas A&M-Commerce
4 118 Tyrone Carter
FS Minnesota
5 165 Troy Walters
WR Stanford
7 240 Mike Malano
G San Diego State
7 244 Giles Cole
-- Texas A&M - Kingsville
7 248 Lewis Kelly
G South Carolina State

1999 - Minnesota Vikings (QB Drafted)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Daunte Culpepper
QB Central Florida
1 29 Dimitrius Underwood
DE Michigan State
2 44 Jimmy Kleinsasser
FB North Dakota
4 120 Kenny Wright
CB Northwestern State-Louisiana
4 125 Jay Humphrey
T Texas
5 169 Chris Jones
LB Clemson
6 185 Talance Sawyer
DE Nevada-Las Vegas
6 199 Antico Dalton
LB Hampton
7 236 Noel Scarlett
DT Langston



Where to start.

It looks like the answer to the draft was already taken up by others so I will address the question of how those older vets worked out for us.

Since we are dealing with the old regime, I will look at how the backups did. It is a bit late so I am not going to dig deep, but if we look at how the backup did in 2005, he came in and went 7-2.

In 2003 Gus Frerotte had the following stats:

Gus Frerotte 16 65 38 58.5 690 10.62 7 2 5 22 118.1

Just for kicks, a guy you failed to mention had these stats in 2002:

Todd Bouman 2 6 3 50.0 85 14.17 0 0 2 22 95.8

In 2001 these were the backup stats( Spergeon sucks)

Spergon Wynn 3 98 48 49.0 418 4.27 1 6 10 65 38.6
Todd Bouman 5 89 51 57.3 795 8.93 8 4 4 27 98.3

In 2000 Bubby didn't fare too well:

Bubby Brister 2 20 10 50.0 82 4.10 0 1 1 6 40.0

In 1999 this old guy came in to replace RC and had these stats:

Name GP ATT CMP PCT YDS YPA TD INT SKD SKY RAT
Jeff George 12 329 191 58.1 2816 8.56 23 12 28 228 94.2

1998:

Brad Johnson 4 101 65 64.4 747 7.40 7 5 4 30 89.0




Now, we will put in the stats for the backup QB's for the current regime and see how they stack up ;)

2005:

Tarvaris Jackson 4 81 47 58.0 475 5.86 2 4 8 50 62.5
Brooks Bollinger 2 18 13 72.2 146 8.11 0 1 6 50 72.9

2006:

Kelly Holcomb 3 83 42 50.6 515 6.20 2 1 12 87 73.1
Brooks Bollinger 5 50 33 66.0 391 7.82 1 1 7 36 88.0



Looks to me like they stacked up pretty favorably to what the current regime has gotten from the backup players.

StillPurple
08-16-2008, 01:53 AM
To UffDAVikes: Yes !!

Word.

You took the words out of my mouth. We went from a team that had one of the best passing games in the NFL in 2004 to a team now that can barely find its ass with both hands.


And your stats back it all up. I am with you, bro !

Marrdro
08-16-2008, 06:28 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.

You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.

Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.



I understand what you are saying, but the part about blaming the last regime for refusing to grow QB's is just plain wrong. They had a QB in Culpepper who was a Pro bowler in 2004 and was in his prime. They backed him up with veterans who could come in and win if they were called on and they usually had a young guy on the roster as a third stringer.

When Culpepper got hurt in 2005 they had Johnson as a backup who came in and played great in relief. That situation is not all that different from where we are now except that Culpepper had more experience than Jackson and had also been tested, where Jackson is still largely unproven.

The last regime always made sure they had veteran QB's on the roster that they knew could run the offense if the starter faltered and when Green was here he had a system ( Or more accurately the personnel) that he could bring in a QB in the offseason and by the time the season rolled around they would be able to run it. None of this half a decade learning curve stuff that we get fed from the current staff.

And how did that work out for us?

Pepp bugged out.
Johnson was used up.
There were no young guys as you contend.

Long story short, the right way to keep consistency at the QB level is to raise them in the system and not only to start but to act as backups/the future as well and not to have to go out and try to find has beens or never wases ( ;D).
Very few teams let thier QB's of value hit the market and the ones that do hit the streets don't happen very often and are usually snatched up pretty quick.

If the previous regime wouldn't have rested on its laurels (we have Pepp were set) there would have been a young kid that had been in the system for 2 or 3 years, learning from the bench and would have been ready to go.

One thing I like about this staff.
It appears they are gonna continually address the QB position each and every year to the point we have 3 or 4 QB's grown in this system in various stages of readiness.

By the way, those young guys you mentioned quit coming around years ago as you have to go back to Pepp to see a QB drafted, not by the last regime but the regime before that...... ;D

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3000&type=team

2005 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Troy Williamson
WR South Carolina
1 18 Erasmus James
DE Wisconsin
2 49 Marcus Johnson
G Mississippi
3 80 Dustin Fox
DB Ohio State
4 112 Ciatrick Fason
RB Florida
6 191 C.J. Mosley
DT Missouri
7 219 Adrian Ward
-- Texas-El Paso

2004 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Kenechi Udeze
DE USC
2 48 Dontarrious Thomas
OLB Auburn
3 88 Darrion Scott
DE Ohio State
4 115 Nat Dorsey
T Georgia Tech
4 119 Mewelde Moore
RB Tulane
5 155 Rod Davis
LB Southern Mississippi
6 184 Deandre' Eiland
DB South Carolina
7 220 Jeff Dugan
TE Maryland

2003 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 9 Kevin Williams
DE Oklahoma State
2 40 E.J. Henderson
LB Maryland
3 71 Nate Burleson
WR Nevada-Reno
4 105 Onterrio Smith
RB Oregon
6 180 Eddie Johnson
P Idaho State
6 190 Michael Nattiel
LB Florida
7 221 Keenan Howry
WR Oregon

2002 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Bryant McKinnie
T Miami (Fla.)
2 38 Raonall Smith
LB Washington State
3 70 Willie Offord
SS South Carolina
4 105 Brian Williams
CB North Carolina State
4 132 Ed Ta'amu
-- Utah
6 177 Nick Rogers
OLB Georgia Tech
7 218 Chad Beasley
DT Virginia Tech

2001 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 Michael Bennett
RB Wisconsin
2 57 Willie Howard
DT Stanford
3 69 Eric Kelly
CB Kentucky
4 130 Shawn Worthen
DT Texas Christian
4 131 Cedric James
WR Texas Christian
5 157 Patrick Chukwurah
LB Wyoming
6 189 Carey Scott
CB Kentucky State
7 225 Brian Crawford
T Western Oregon

2000 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Chris Hovan
DT Boston College
2 55 Fred Robbins
DT Wake Forest
2 56 Michael Boireau
DE Miami (Fla.)
3 88 Doug Chapman
RB Marshall
4 106 Antonio Wilson
LB Texas A&M-Commerce
4 118 Tyrone Carter
FS Minnesota
5 165 Troy Walters
WR Stanford
7 240 Mike Malano
G San Diego State
7 244 Giles Cole
-- Texas A&M - Kingsville
7 248 Lewis Kelly
G South Carolina State

1999 - Minnesota Vikings (QB Drafted)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Daunte Culpepper
QB Central Florida
1 29 Dimitrius Underwood
DE Michigan State
2 44 Jimmy Kleinsasser
FB North Dakota
4 120 Kenny Wright
CB Northwestern State-Louisiana
4 125 Jay Humphrey
T Texas
5 169 Chris Jones
LB Clemson
6 185 Talance Sawyer
DE Nevada-Las Vegas
6 199 Antico Dalton
LB Hampton
7 236 Noel Scarlett
DT Langston



LOL Marr, surely you jest. The previous regime didn't just rest their laurels on Culpepper & some old vets.

The "Beast" must have affected your memory. Fact is there were 3 young QB's brought in during the years you listed.

Todd Bouman (2001-2002) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Romaro Miller (2001) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Shaun Hill (2002-2005) was signed as an UDFA in 2002

LOL, I hear ya my friend, however, I kindof see a double standard here for you.


Its not ok to address the OL via UDFA but it is the QB position?
:P
:P
:P

Comeon my friend, arguably the most important position and you are saying we need to look at soley on old has beens/never wases ( ;D) and some undrafted players?

I'm talking about seriously addressing/readdressing the position each and every year.

Marrdro
08-16-2008, 06:34 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.

You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.

Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.



I understand what you are saying, but the part about blaming the last regime for refusing to grow QB's is just plain wrong. They had a QB in Culpepper who was a Pro bowler in 2004 and was in his prime. They backed him up with veterans who could come in and win if they were called on and they usually had a young guy on the roster as a third stringer.

When Culpepper got hurt in 2005 they had Johnson as a backup who came in and played great in relief. That situation is not all that different from where we are now except that Culpepper had more experience than Jackson and had also been tested, where Jackson is still largely unproven.

The last regime always made sure they had veteran QB's on the roster that they knew could run the offense if the starter faltered and when Green was here he had a system ( Or more accurately the personnel) that he could bring in a QB in the offseason and by the time the season rolled around they would be able to run it. None of this half a decade learning curve stuff that we get fed from the current staff.

And how did that work out for us?

Pepp bugged out.
Johnson was used up.
There were no young guys as you contend.

Long story short, the right way to keep consistency at the QB level is to raise them in the system and not only to start but to act as backups/the future as well and not to have to go out and try to find has beens or never wases ( ;D).
Very few teams let thier QB's of value hit the market and the ones that do hit the streets don't happen very often and are usually snatched up pretty quick.

If the previous regime wouldn't have rested on its laurels (we have Pepp were set) there would have been a young kid that had been in the system for 2 or 3 years, learning from the bench and would have been ready to go.

One thing I like about this staff.
It appears they are gonna continually address the QB position each and every year to the point we have 3 or 4 QB's grown in this system in various stages of readiness.

By the way, those young guys you mentioned quit coming around years ago as you have to go back to Pepp to see a QB drafted, not by the last regime but the regime before that...... ;D

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3000&type=team

2005 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Troy Williamson
WR South Carolina
1 18 Erasmus James
DE Wisconsin
2 49 Marcus Johnson
G Mississippi
3 80 Dustin Fox
DB Ohio State
4 112 Ciatrick Fason
RB Florida
6 191 C.J. Mosley
DT Missouri
7 219 Adrian Ward
-- Texas-El Paso

2004 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Kenechi Udeze
DE USC
2 48 Dontarrious Thomas
OLB Auburn
3 88 Darrion Scott
DE Ohio State
4 115 Nat Dorsey
T Georgia Tech
4 119 Mewelde Moore
RB Tulane
5 155 Rod Davis
LB Southern Mississippi
6 184 Deandre' Eiland
DB South Carolina
7 220 Jeff Dugan
TE Maryland

2003 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 9 Kevin Williams
DE Oklahoma State
2 40 E.J. Henderson
LB Maryland
3 71 Nate Burleson
WR Nevada-Reno
4 105 Onterrio Smith
RB Oregon
6 180 Eddie Johnson
P Idaho State
6 190 Michael Nattiel
LB Florida
7 221 Keenan Howry
WR Oregon

2002 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Bryant McKinnie
T Miami (Fla.)
2 38 Raonall Smith
LB Washington State
3 70 Willie Offord
SS South Carolina
4 105 Brian Williams
CB North Carolina State
4 132 Ed Ta'amu
-- Utah
6 177 Nick Rogers
OLB Georgia Tech
7 218 Chad Beasley
DT Virginia Tech

2001 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 Michael Bennett
RB Wisconsin
2 57 Willie Howard
DT Stanford
3 69 Eric Kelly
CB Kentucky
4 130 Shawn Worthen
DT Texas Christian
4 131 Cedric James
WR Texas Christian
5 157 Patrick Chukwurah
LB Wyoming
6 189 Carey Scott
CB Kentucky State
7 225 Brian Crawford
T Western Oregon

2000 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Chris Hovan
DT Boston College
2 55 Fred Robbins
DT Wake Forest
2 56 Michael Boireau
DE Miami (Fla.)
3 88 Doug Chapman
RB Marshall
4 106 Antonio Wilson
LB Texas A&M-Commerce
4 118 Tyrone Carter
FS Minnesota
5 165 Troy Walters
WR Stanford
7 240 Mike Malano
G San Diego State
7 244 Giles Cole
-- Texas A&M - Kingsville
7 248 Lewis Kelly
G South Carolina State

1999 - Minnesota Vikings (QB Drafted)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Daunte Culpepper
QB Central Florida
1 29 Dimitrius Underwood
DE Michigan State
2 44 Jimmy Kleinsasser
FB North Dakota
4 120 Kenny Wright
CB Northwestern State-Louisiana
4 125 Jay Humphrey
T Texas
5 169 Chris Jones
LB Clemson
6 185 Talance Sawyer
DE Nevada-Las Vegas
6 199 Antico Dalton
LB Hampton
7 236 Noel Scarlett
DT Langston



Where to start.

It looks like the answer to the draft was already taken up by others so I will address the question of how those older vets worked out for us.

Since we are dealing with the old regime, I will look at how the backups did. It is a bit late so I am not going to dig deep, but if we look at how the backup did in 2005, he came in and went 7-2.

In 2003 Gus Frerotte had the following stats:

Gus Frerotte 16 65 38 58.5 690 10.62 7 2 5 22 118.1

Just for kicks, a guy you failed to mention had these stats in 2002:

Todd Bouman 2 6 3 50.0 85 14.17 0 0 2 22 95.8

In 2001 these were the backup stats( Spergeon sucks)

Spergon Wynn 3 98 48 49.0 418 4.27 1 6 10 65 38.6
Todd Bouman 5 89 51 57.3 795 8.93 8 4 4 27 98.3

In 2000 Bubby didn't fare too well:

Bubby Brister 2 20 10 50.0 82 4.10 0 1 1 6 40.0

In 1999 this old guy came in to replace RC and had these stats:

Name GP ATT CMP PCT YDS YPA TD INT SKD SKY RAT
Jeff George 12 329 191 58.1 2816 8.56 23 12 28 228 94.2

1998:

Brad Johnson 4 101 65 64.4 747 7.40 7 5 4 30 89.0




Now, we will put in the stats for the backup QB's for the current regime and see how they stack up ;)

2005:

Tarvaris Jackson 4 81 47 58.0 475 5.86 2 4 8 50 62.5
Brooks Bollinger 2 18 13 72.2 146 8.11 0 1 6 50 72.9

2006:

Kelly Holcomb 3 83 42 50.6 515 6.20 2 1 12 87 73.1
Brooks Bollinger 5 50 33 66.0 391 7.82 1 1 7 36 88.0



Looks to me like they stacked up pretty favorably to what the current regime has gotten from the backup players.


All well and good and respectable players, however, how many of those cats got us to the promised land and are of the ilk that StillPurple is pining for?

Answer: None of them. ;D

Comeon my friend.
His problem is he can't wait for this team to develop, especially in the QB area.
Lets take a look at stats from TJ, JDB, etc etc etc in a five year window.
My guess is that thier stats will cause those of those has beens to pale.

Again, nice effort but none of those guys is what he is describing above.

singersp
08-16-2008, 06:40 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:




Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.

So let me get this straight.....You want the following.....

a.
You want some team to draft a 1-A QB, groom him for 4 or 5 years.
b.
You then want that FO to release that guy after investing that many years in that guy.
c.
You probably also want that very same FO to groom a second QB of this nature and let him go as well.
d.
Then you want this FO to go out and sign that guy.

Comeon my friend.
It just doesn't work that way.
Any team that has a young QB with promise (GB, Dallas, Cleveland) is resigning those guys and letting thier has beens and never was's go the way of FA.
Any team that has a QB that still have some life in him are retaining his services (except GB).

Long story short, we are in this mess cause the last regime refused to grow QB's.
TJ will be proven at the end of this year and we will have at least JDB in the pipeline for the future if needed.
Given time we will have several QBs in various stages of development and we won't have to worry about this anymore.



I understand what you are saying, but the part about blaming the last regime for refusing to grow QB's is just plain wrong. They had a QB in Culpepper who was a Pro bowler in 2004 and was in his prime. They backed him up with veterans who could come in and win if they were called on and they usually had a young guy on the roster as a third stringer.

When Culpepper got hurt in 2005 they had Johnson as a backup who came in and played great in relief. That situation is not all that different from where we are now except that Culpepper had more experience than Jackson and had also been tested, where Jackson is still largely unproven.

The last regime always made sure they had veteran QB's on the roster that they knew could run the offense if the starter faltered and when Green was here he had a system ( Or more accurately the personnel) that he could bring in a QB in the offseason and by the time the season rolled around they would be able to run it. None of this half a decade learning curve stuff that we get fed from the current staff.

And how did that work out for us?

Pepp bugged out.
Johnson was used up.
There were no young guys as you contend.

Long story short, the right way to keep consistency at the QB level is to raise them in the system and not only to start but to act as backups/the future as well and not to have to go out and try to find has beens or never wases ( ;D).
Very few teams let thier QB's of value hit the market and the ones that do hit the streets don't happen very often and are usually snatched up pretty quick.

If the previous regime wouldn't have rested on its laurels (we have Pepp were set) there would have been a young kid that had been in the system for 2 or 3 years, learning from the bench and would have been ready to go.

One thing I like about this staff.
It appears they are gonna continually address the QB position each and every year to the point we have 3 or 4 QB's grown in this system in various stages of readiness.

By the way, those young guys you mentioned quit coming around years ago as you have to go back to Pepp to see a QB drafted, not by the last regime but the regime before that...... ;D

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3000&type=team

2005 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Troy Williamson
WR South Carolina
1 18 Erasmus James
DE Wisconsin
2 49 Marcus Johnson
G Mississippi
3 80 Dustin Fox
DB Ohio State
4 112 Ciatrick Fason
RB Florida
6 191 C.J. Mosley
DT Missouri
7 219 Adrian Ward
-- Texas-El Paso

2004 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Kenechi Udeze
DE USC
2 48 Dontarrious Thomas
OLB Auburn
3 88 Darrion Scott
DE Ohio State
4 115 Nat Dorsey
T Georgia Tech
4 119 Mewelde Moore
RB Tulane
5 155 Rod Davis
LB Southern Mississippi
6 184 Deandre' Eiland
DB South Carolina
7 220 Jeff Dugan
TE Maryland

2003 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 9 Kevin Williams
DE Oklahoma State
2 40 E.J. Henderson
LB Maryland
3 71 Nate Burleson
WR Nevada-Reno
4 105 Onterrio Smith
RB Oregon
6 180 Eddie Johnson
P Idaho State
6 190 Michael Nattiel
LB Florida
7 221 Keenan Howry
WR Oregon

2002 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Bryant McKinnie
T Miami (Fla.)
2 38 Raonall Smith
LB Washington State
3 70 Willie Offord
SS South Carolina
4 105 Brian Williams
CB North Carolina State
4 132 Ed Ta'amu
-- Utah
6 177 Nick Rogers
OLB Georgia Tech
7 218 Chad Beasley
DT Virginia Tech

2001 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 Michael Bennett
RB Wisconsin
2 57 Willie Howard
DT Stanford
3 69 Eric Kelly
CB Kentucky
4 130 Shawn Worthen
DT Texas Christian
4 131 Cedric James
WR Texas Christian
5 157 Patrick Chukwurah
LB Wyoming
6 189 Carey Scott
CB Kentucky State
7 225 Brian Crawford
T Western Oregon

2000 - Minnesota Vikings (No QB)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Chris Hovan
DT Boston College
2 55 Fred Robbins
DT Wake Forest
2 56 Michael Boireau
DE Miami (Fla.)
3 88 Doug Chapman
RB Marshall
4 106 Antonio Wilson
LB Texas A&M-Commerce
4 118 Tyrone Carter
FS Minnesota
5 165 Troy Walters
WR Stanford
7 240 Mike Malano
G San Diego State
7 244 Giles Cole
-- Texas A&M - Kingsville
7 248 Lewis Kelly
G South Carolina State

1999 - Minnesota Vikings (QB Drafted)
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Daunte Culpepper
QB Central Florida
1 29 Dimitrius Underwood
DE Michigan State
2 44 Jimmy Kleinsasser
FB North Dakota
4 120 Kenny Wright
CB Northwestern State-Louisiana
4 125 Jay Humphrey
T Texas
5 169 Chris Jones
LB Clemson
6 185 Talance Sawyer
DE Nevada-Las Vegas
6 199 Antico Dalton
LB Hampton
7 236 Noel Scarlett
DT Langston



LOL Marr, surely you jest. The previous regime didn't just rest their laurels on Culpepper & some old vets.

The "Beast" must have affected your memory. Fact is there were 3 young QB's brought in during the years you listed.

Todd Bouman (2001-2002) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Romaro Miller (2001) was signed as an UDFA in 2001

Shaun Hill (2002-2005) was signed as an UDFA in 2002

LOL, I hear ya my friend, however, I kindof see a double standard here for you.


Its not ok to address the OL via UDFA but it is the QB position?
:P
:P
:P

Comeon my friend, arguably the most important position and you are saying we need to look at soley on old has beens/never wases ( ;D) and some undrafted players?

I'm talking about seriously addressing/readdressing the position each and every year.


Not a double standard on my part, but on yours. You're the one typically stating that good players can be found in UDFA & have even dropped a few names of Good QB's who went undrafted.

During those years that you mentioned, What was our immediate needs? Did we not have more vital holes to fill in those years?

Can you think of a BPA QB that was available then that the Vikings passed on?

Purple Floyd
08-16-2008, 10:31 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:



All well and good and respectable players, however, how many of those cats got us to the promised land and are of the ilk that StillPurple is pining for?

Answer: None of them. ;D

Comeon my friend.
His problem is he can't wait for this team to develop, especially in the QB area.
Lets take a look at stats from TJ, JDB, etc etc etc in a five year window.
My guess is that thier stats will cause those of those has beens to pale.

Again, nice effort but none of those guys is what he is describing above.


Well, if the promised land is the SB, then none of them or none of the current crop so I am not sure where you are going with that one.


If the promised land is a .500 record then maybe 50%. How about that current crop. Anyone got us to .500 yet?

singersp
08-16-2008, 11:13 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:



All well and good and respectable players, however, how many of those cats got us to the promised land and are of the ilk that StillPurple is pining for?

Answer: None of them. ;D

Comeon my friend.
His problem is he can't wait for this team to develop, especially in the QB area.
Lets take a look at stats from TJ, JDB, etc etc etc in a five year window.
My guess is that thier stats will cause those of those has beens to pale.

Again, nice effort but none of those guys is what he is describing above.


Well, if the promised land is the SB, then none of them or none of the current crop so I am not sure where you are going with that one.


If the promised land is a .500 record then maybe 50%. How about that current crop. Anyone got us to .500 yet?



Sounds to me like Marr is changing his tune a bit. At first he said in the past regime & back to 1999, no new young guys were brought in & the Vikings relied solely on the laurels of Culpepper & some older vets.

Now he's stating that none of them got us to the promised land? That was beside the point & not what the discussion was about. It was about bringing young guys in to groom instead of a flurry of aged vets. Now he's looking for proven winners? We have shown that they indeed have done that. They may have been UDFA insteaded of draft picks, but they were brought in to be groomed nevertheless & did make the roster along with the others.

Whether or not those young QB's panned out is a moot point.

The promised land is a moot point as well. A SB victory does not rely solely on a QB. It is a team sport & you must have not only good solid players, but players who can play as a team & be solid on both offense.

To go along with the above, you must also have good coaches in place who can manage the game smartly & make game plan changes on the fly to counter anything our opponents are throwing at us on the field.

We did not have that in those years. During our high-powered offensive scoring years there were many games where we scored 30+ points & still lost the game.

Viking_Cheef
08-16-2008, 03:00 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.


Your list of QB's here does not seem right.
IMO Romo, Roethlisberger, and E. Manning didnt go to "Big Time" 1-A schools

Marino and Favre did not go to "Big Time" schools and they seemed to turn out well

Purple Floyd
08-16-2008, 03:14 PM
"Viking_Cheef" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.


Your list of QB's here does not seem right.
IMO Romo, Roethlisberger, and E. Manning didnt go to "Big Time" 1-A schools

Marino and Favre did not go to "Big Time" schools and they seemed to turn out well


I believe his comparison was that they were big time compared to the school Jackson went to. I think that is a fair statement.

Purple Floyd
08-16-2008, 03:19 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:



All well and good and respectable players, however, how many of those cats got us to the promised land and are of the ilk that StillPurple is pining for?

Answer: None of them. ;D

Comeon my friend.
His problem is he can't wait for this team to develop, especially in the QB area.
Lets take a look at stats from TJ, JDB, etc etc etc in a five year window.
My guess is that thier stats will cause those of those has beens to pale.

Again, nice effort but none of those guys is what he is describing above.


Well, if the promised land is the SB, then none of them or none of the current crop so I am not sure where you are going with that one.


If the promised land is a .500 record then maybe 50%. How about that current crop. Anyone got us to .500 yet?



Sounds to me like Marr is changing his tune a bit. At first he said in the past regime & back to 1999, no new young guys were brought in & the Vikings relied solely on the laurels of Culpepper & some older vets.

Now he's stating that none of them got us to the promised land? That was beside the point & not what the discussion was about. It was about bringing young guys in to groom instead of a flurry of aged vets. Now he's looking for proven winners? We have shown that they indeed have done that. They may have been UDFA insteaded of draft picks, but they were brought in to be groomed nevertheless & did make the roster along with the others.

Whether or not those young QB's panned out is a moot point.

The promised land is a moot point as well. A SB victory does not rely solely on a QB. It is a team sport & you must have not only good solid players, but players who can play as a team & be solid on both offense.

To go along with the above, you must also have good coaches in place who can manage the game smartly & make game plan changes on the fly to counter anything our opponents are throwing at us on the field.

We did not have that in those years. During our high-powered offensive scoring years there were many games where we scored 30+ points & still lost the game.


Grasping at straws lol.

Viking_Cheef
08-16-2008, 04:48 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Viking_Cheef" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I like Tarvaris. I like his arm strength and his movement. I like the way he has carried himself through the whole Favre circus.

But at the same time, I would really rather be in the situation of us having a proven playoff QB, and the commentators saying "well, if they can stay healthy and just execute, they should make the NFC Championship", rather than people here writing that we should "give Tarvaris a chance" and "be optimistic", etc. There is a difference between knowledge and faith, and I would rather have knowledge.

I mean, look around the NFL at almost any team. They almost all have QBs who went to big-time I-A colleges and who have proven themselves already in the NFL. Need I name names (Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Hasselbeck, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.). When I put "Jackson" up there, I just can't overcome the feeling that we are in trouble.

Imagine we are playing Seattle or Dallas in the playoffs, and we are down by 13. We need our QB to engineer a long drive, and then another one, and the defense knows we have to throw it.

I just don't have faith that we get that done. It is one thing to hand off to AP when we are ahead. Quite another to come back from down 13 vs. Hasselbeck or Romo in the playoffs.


Your list of QB's here does not seem right.
IMO Romo, Roethlisberger, and E. Manning didnt go to "Big Time" 1-A schools

Marino and Favre did not go to "Big Time" schools and they seemed to turn out well


I believe his comparison was that they were big time compared to the school Jackson went to. I think that is a fair statement.


That is a little better but Romo did attend 1-AA Eastern Illinois which is no more big time then Alabama State.
T-Jack did initially go to U of Arkansas a 1-A school.

Vikes_King
08-16-2008, 05:18 PM
The big thing about Jackson is not what school he went to.. its the fact that we expected him to learn behind Brad Johnson for around 2 seasons before getting his feet wet.
Well, a hell of a lot earlier than that, not only did he get his feet well, he got pushed into the damn deep end before being taught how to swim.



I could keep up with the water metaphors, but I think I'll stop there.
Blame Michael Phelps