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Rochesterdave
08-14-2008, 09:37 AM
Please tell me if our pass defense is going to be any better than the past 10 years. Buy the looks of the first game against Seattle looks like the same old, same old. Any thoughts on how it will be this year ?

Marrdro
08-14-2008, 09:47 AM
Welcome to the site my friend.

Post well and post often.

As to your question I guess it comes down to a difference of opinion on here based on your feelings about the Cover 2 Scheme.
Some kindof feel like it is a glorified version of the prevent defense.
And we all know that any self respecting football fan doesn't like the prevent at all.
;D

Long story short, our biggest issue last year with respect to our pass defense was centered on the fact that we couldn't get any decent pressure on the QB without bringing a LB or two.
That caused a hole in the short underneath routes allowing opposing QB's to pick us to pieces with short dinks/dunks.

With the addition of JA and the movement of Ray to LDE it appears we will be able to improve our pass rush from the front 4 and bring a bit more pressure without using LB'rs which ultimately exposes our CB's.

All pure speculation at this point as I don't think we saw anything out of our Defense in the Seachickens game to make a honest assesment because we all know the Chiller doens't show his hand in pre-season and we were missing a couple of key players (Phat Pat/M-will) for that game.

IMHO our pass defense will be better this year.

i_bleed_purple
08-14-2008, 09:48 AM
remember, its preaseason.
I don't take much value in waht I see first preseason game.
If the 3rd game comes and we still can't stop anyone, then I would start to be concerned, but I think we will do much better, as long as we stop with the injuries.
Madieu Williams hurts us, and we can't afford to have Ray Edwards hurt at all.
But all we can do really is wait and see, and speculate.

tastywaves
08-14-2008, 09:58 AM
Pre-season just doesn't have the intensity of regular season and it makes it very hard to take the results seriously.

I agree with Marr that our biggest issue in pass defense last year was with the push from our front 4.
If they can maintain decent pressure, you should see a much improved pass defense.
However, because of the strength of our run defense, look for the pass defense to still be the area most teams go after.
I would still expect to see a fair amount of passing yards put up against us, but hopefully drives will stall faster and even fewer points will be scored on us.

Madieu is a very important part of our defense as IBP points out.
If the front 4 gets the pressure we are expecting, I think you will see a little more ball hawking in our secondary as well, which may not sit well with a lot of PP.O'ers.
However, its Leslie Frazier's MO and falls in line with great range guys like Madieu and Tyrell.

Prophet
08-14-2008, 01:13 PM
Vikings' D was tied at 11th for the least # of pts given up per game.
The whole pass coverage thing that everyone likes to whine about isn't nearly as much as a problem as people like to make it out to be.
Room for improvement?
Of course.
The theoretically better pass rush should help.

Zeus
08-14-2008, 01:17 PM
"Rochesterdave" wrote:


Please tell me if our pass defense is going to be any better than the past 10 years. Buy the looks of the first game against Seattle looks like the same old, same old. Any thoughts on how it will be this year ?


Well, mainly, Dave, I always try to remember that 3 quarters of that game were played by players who either are backups or who won't be on the roster this season.

So, of course, the Seattle game was meaningless.

Indianapolis is 2-14 in their last 16 pre-season games.

=Z=

StillPurple
08-14-2008, 01:48 PM
I didn't even see the game, but:

a. It is pre-season
b. Seattle has one of the best passing attacks in the NFL

Also, Brad basically admitted that he was playing "vanilla zone" to see weaknesses.

i.e. no blitzes, etc.

One thing I have noticed is that we don't jam enough on the LOS in the Cover 2. One reason we drafted bigger corners was to jam the receivers on the line. We need to get better at that.

On the other hand, the positives:
- Antwoine Winfield
- Our tackling in general in the secondary
- Sharper and his INTs

I am confident about this aspect of our game, this year.

The real weakness won't be in the seconary, it will be at linebacker.

Purple Floyd
08-14-2008, 02:02 PM
I think it depends on how many injuries we have. Two years ago we lost some key guys and I think that hurt us. Last year we were healthier but still suffered. This year we added talent but lost a few guys alreeady and have a few more dinged up. If we can get the guys back who are dinged and don't lose anybody else we might be better. Lose a few more guys and we might be worse.

C Mac D
08-14-2008, 02:04 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I didn't even see the game, but:

a. It is pre-season
b. Seattle has one of the best passing attacks in the NFL

Also, Brad basically admitted that he was playing "vanilla zone" to see weaknesses.

i.e. no blitzes, etc.

One thing I have noticed is that we don't jam enough on the LOS in the Cover 2. One reason we drafted bigger corners was to jam the receivers on the line. We need to get better at that.

On the other hand, the positives:
- Antwoine Winfield
- Our tackling in general in the secondary
- Sharper and his INTs

I am confident about this aspect of our game, this year.

The real weakness won't be in the seconary, it will be at linebacker.


No way... our weakness is definitely at Corner. I watched McCauley, Griffen and Winfield get smoked enough last year to know better than to blame it on the LB corps... who did a pretty damn good job.

Winfield is overrated.

Purple Floyd
08-14-2008, 02:11 PM
"C" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I didn't even see the game, but:

a. It is pre-season
b. Seattle has one of the best passing attacks in the NFL

Also, Brad basically admitted that he was playing "vanilla zone" to see weaknesses.

i.e. no blitzes, etc.

One thing I have noticed is that we don't jam enough on the LOS in the Cover 2. One reason we drafted bigger corners was to jam the receivers on the line. We need to get better at that.

On the other hand, the positives:
- Antwoine Winfield
- Our tackling in general in the secondary
- Sharper and his INTs

I am confident about this aspect of our game, this year.

The real weakness won't be in the seconary, it will be at linebacker.


No way... our weakness is definitely at Corner. I watched McCauley, Griffen and Winfield get smoked enough last year to know better than to blame it on the LB corps... who did a pretty damn good job.

Winfield is overrated.


Agreed.

V-Unit
08-14-2008, 02:16 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


Vikings' D was tied at 11th for the least # of pts given up per game.
The whole pass coverage thing that everyone likes to whine about isn't nearly as much as a problem as people like to make it out to be.
Room for improvement?
Of course.
The theoretically better pass rush should help.

Zeus
08-14-2008, 03:09 PM
"C" wrote:


No way... our weakness is definitely at Corner. I watched McCauley, Griffen and Winfield get smoked enough last year to know better than to blame it on the LB corps... who did a pretty damn good job.

Winfield is overrated.


Sharper is overrated.

Winfield is mis-labeled if anyone considers him to be a shut-down corner, which he isn't.
He is the best tackling corner in the NFL, but to expect him to be matched against a #1 WR and stop them all day is to misuse his skills.

=Z=

midgensa
08-14-2008, 03:58 PM
Our pass defense definitely should be and will be improved last season.
I know it has been said a million times and all, but the addition of Jared Allen will make a huge difference.
While Winfield is not a shut-down corner ... and neither is Griffen ... they are both average cover guys who tackled well. The safeties should be solid with Madieu providing some coverage so Darren can do the only thing he does well ... which is chase down picks.
I think the key to it all is our linebackers. I think that we should expect big things out of EJ, Leber and Greenway this season.
They are great against the run and good on the blitz and I personally think they are pretty good in coverage as well.
The addition of Allen and another year of experience in this system for all of these guys should make a huge difference.

Purple Floyd
08-14-2008, 04:42 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


No way... our weakness is definitely at Corner. I watched McCauley, Griffen and Winfield get smoked enough last year to know better than to blame it on the LB corps... who did a pretty damn good job.

Winfield is overrated.


Sharper is overrated.

Winfield is mis-labeled if anyone considers him to be a shut-down corner, which he isn't.
He is the best tackling corner in the NFL, but to expect him to be matched against a #1 WR and stop them all day is to misuse his skills.

=Z=


That would be great if he was a linebacker

cajunvike
08-14-2008, 04:46 PM
Can the Vikes afford to trade for Lito Sheppard?
As the season nears, the Eagles have got to be getting a little edgy that they will still have a disgruntled Sheppard sitting on the bench and may entertain lesser offers than they were seeking earlier.

midgensa
08-14-2008, 05:10 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


Can the Vikes afford to trade for Lito Sheppard?
As the season nears, the Eagles have got to be getting a little edgy that they will still have a disgruntled Sheppard sitting on the bench and may entertain lesser offers than they were seeking earlier.


If I am correct you have been harping for Sheppard for a while. I think I would love to see us make a move, but there is no chance they do it.
Childress is clearly happy with the squad he has in place right now. I don't think he would go after Sheppard unless he was literally dirt cheap.
I would love to see Sheppard and Winfield lining up though.

Yfz01
08-14-2008, 05:26 PM
Pfft Winfield would be fine if we could get some pass rush, even Noumaoudio uhh... that corner on the raiders wouldn't be a shut down corner on our team.

vikes2456
08-14-2008, 06:21 PM
I hope it will be fine. And Sharper may be overrated by the media and the rest of the NFL, but he is most certainly underrated on this site.

MaxVike
08-14-2008, 06:35 PM
Pressure, Pressure, Pressure!!!
Any NFL QB will shred any defense if he has time to throw the rock.
Case in point, Jared Allen coming to the Vikes and becoming the highest paid defensive player in the League.
I think the line will provide pressure, IMO, the linebacking crew needs to step up just as much as the defensive backs.
Presumably, the opposing QB will have less time this year, which means the TE, RB's and slot receivers will be a focus because their routes are shorter.
We shall see, but, if the D-Line does their job, that's what happens...or, the QB GOES DOWN UNDER A SEA OF PURPLE ;D

erik5032
08-14-2008, 06:39 PM
I am not to worried about our pass defense this year ... As long as Jared Allen gets a few sacks and a lot of pressures I would be happy ... I do expect 2 sacks a game from Edwards, Allen, Pat, and Kevin ... wouldn't that be awesome! I dream to much.

V4L
08-14-2008, 07:03 PM
I have a feelin our pass d will suck again this year

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 08:10 AM
Did we scare the topic starter away my friends?
::)

Zeus
08-15-2008, 08:15 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


No way... our weakness is definitely at Corner. I watched McCauley, Griffen and Winfield get smoked enough last year to know better than to blame it on the LB corps... who did a pretty damn good job.

Winfield is overrated.


Sharper is overrated.

Winfield is mis-labeled if anyone considers him to be a shut-down corner, which he isn't.
He is the best tackling corner in the NFL, but to expect him to be matched against a #1 WR and stop them all day is to misuse his skills.


That would be great if he was a linebacker


Or a cornerback in the Cover 2.

=Z=

NodakPaul
08-15-2008, 08:26 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Did we scare the topic starter away my friends?
::)


He hasn't come back.. but I don't think anyone scared him away.
We were pretty cordial in this thread.

i_bleed_purple
08-15-2008, 08:27 AM
he might just be overly sensitive... we did disagree with him after all.

Zeus
08-15-2008, 08:30 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


he might just be overly sensitive... we did disagree with him after all.


I don't recall anyone disagreeing - I thought people were just saying - "Hey, Dave, chill.
It's the pre-season."

=Z=

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 08:59 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


he might just be overly sensitive... we did disagree with him after all.


I don't recall anyone disagreeing - I thought people were just saying - "Hey, Dave, chill.
It's the pre-season."

=Z=

Nothing negative of course.
We might have just overwhelmed him a bit is all I am thinking.
I am sure if he is lurking he will see we mean no harm and encourage posts of this nature.


Leads to some nice dicsussions.
;D

Purple Floyd
08-15-2008, 10:00 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


No way... our weakness is definitely at Corner. I watched McCauley, Griffen and Winfield get smoked enough last year to know better than to blame it on the LB corps... who did a pretty damn good job.

Winfield is overrated.


Sharper is overrated.

Winfield is mis-labeled if anyone considers him to be a shut-down corner, which he isn't.
He is the best tackling corner in the NFL, but to expect him to be matched against a #1 WR and stop them all day is to misuse his skills.


That would be great if he was a linebacker


Or a cornerback in the Cover 2.

=Z=


Sniffer ;D ;D

Zeus
08-15-2008, 10:18 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


No way... our weakness is definitely at Corner. I watched McCauley, Griffen and Winfield get smoked enough last year to know better than to blame it on the LB corps... who did a pretty damn good job.

Winfield is overrated.


Sharper is overrated.

Winfield is mis-labeled if anyone considers him to be a shut-down corner, which he isn't.
He is the best tackling corner in the NFL, but to expect him to be matched against a #1 WR and stop them all day is to misuse his skills.


That would be great if he was a linebacker


Or a cornerback in the Cover 2.


Sniffer ;D ;D


I have never hidden my man-love for Antoine Winfield.

=Z=

VKG4LFE
08-15-2008, 10:21 AM
I am very nervous about our pass defense again this year. Hopefully with the addition of Allen, it will be much improved because of pressure on the quarterback, but who knows how big of an impact one person will make.

C Mac D
08-15-2008, 10:29 AM
Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.

Zeus
08-15-2008, 10:39 AM
"C" wrote:


Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.


You act as if the only responsibility for a corner is to break up passes.
Last I heard, teams run about 50% of the time.
And if they run at Winfield, the back is going to go down.

Winfield was 4th on the Vikings in tackles last year.
Ced Griffen was 2nd, by a large margin.
Cover 2 needs the corners to be good tacklers.

There was a reason teams ran at Deion Sanders all the time.

=Z=

VKG4LFE
08-15-2008, 10:41 AM
Yeah, I love our 2 corners. We just need a little help with the pass rush and there coverage stats will look a lot better.

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 10:44 AM
Lets not forget that a improved DL should bring enough pressure on its own without the consistent help/blitz from our LB's and those very same LB's will be able to fill thier role in pass coverage as well this year taking away alot of those short passes even a Cover Corner gives up.

C Mac D
08-15-2008, 11:03 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.


You act as if the only responsibility for a corner is to break up passes.
Last I heard, teams run about 50% of the time.
And if they run at Winfield, the back is going to go down.

Winfield was 4th on the Vikings in tackles last year.
Ced Griffen was 2nd, by a large margin.
Cover 2 needs the corners to be good tacklers.

There was a reason teams ran at Deion Sanders all the time.

=Z=


Teams don't run against us though. They pass.

Is there a way we can be good at both Coverage and against the Run?

32nd against the pass is unacceptable.

Prophet
08-15-2008, 11:05 AM
"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.


You act as if the only responsibility for a corner is to break up passes.
Last I heard, teams run about 50% of the time.
And if they run at Winfield, the back is going to go down.

Winfield was 4th on the Vikings in tackles last year.
Ced Griffen was 2nd, by a large margin.
Cover 2 needs the corners to be good tacklers.

There was a reason teams ran at Deion Sanders all the time.

=Z=


Teams don't run against us though. They pass.

Is there a way we can be good at both Coverage and against the Run?

32nd against the pass is unacceptable.


Tied for 11th in the # of pts given up is acceptable.

C Mac D
08-15-2008, 11:12 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.


You act as if the only responsibility for a corner is to break up passes.
Last I heard, teams run about 50% of the time.
And if they run at Winfield, the back is going to go down.

Winfield was 4th on the Vikings in tackles last year.
Ced Griffen was 2nd, by a large margin.
Cover 2 needs the corners to be good tacklers.

There was a reason teams ran at Deion Sanders all the time.

=Z=


Teams don't run against us though. They pass.

Is there a way we can be good at both Coverage and against the Run?

32nd against the pass is unacceptable.


Tied for 11th in the # of pts given up is acceptable.


I guess... if you're ok settling for 11th.

Zeus
08-15-2008, 11:15 AM
"C" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.


You act as if the only responsibility for a corner is to break up passes.
Last I heard, teams run about 50% of the time.
And if they run at Winfield, the back is going to go down.

Winfield was 4th on the Vikings in tackles last year.
Ced Griffen was 2nd, by a large margin.
Cover 2 needs the corners to be good tacklers.

There was a reason teams ran at Deion Sanders all the time.


Teams don't run against us though. They pass.

Is there a way we can be good at both Coverage and against the Run?

32nd against the pass is unacceptable.


Tied for 11th in the # of pts given up is acceptable.


I guess... if you're ok settling for 11th.


I suppose that depends on what the offense is doing.
No one wins any trophies for where their defense is ranked in stat categories at the end of the season.

=Z=

Prophet
08-15-2008, 11:16 AM
"C" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.


You act as if the only responsibility for a corner is to break up passes.
Last I heard, teams run about 50% of the time.
And if they run at Winfield, the back is going to go down.

Winfield was 4th on the Vikings in tackles last year.
Ced Griffen was 2nd, by a large margin.
Cover 2 needs the corners to be good tacklers.

There was a reason teams ran at Deion Sanders all the time.

=Z=


Teams don't run against us though. They pass.

Is there a way we can be good at both Coverage and against the Run?

32nd against the pass is unacceptable.


Tied for 11th in the # of pts given up is acceptable.


I guess... if you're ok settling for 11th.


A defense ranked in the top third of the leage with an accompanying offense ranked in the top tier?
Yes, that would be good enough for me.
After that it comes down to what happens in the field.
Somebody should look at the past SB champions and where they ranked in overall O and D.
My guess is that damn near all of them are in the top third in both O and D.

C Mac D
08-15-2008, 11:17 AM
Bottom line, you're not going to win any championships with the 32nd ranked Pass D...

I don't care if we are 11th in scoring. I want the Vikes to win the SB.

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 11:18 AM
"C" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.


You act as if the only responsibility for a corner is to break up passes.
Last I heard, teams run about 50% of the time.
And if they run at Winfield, the back is going to go down.

Winfield was 4th on the Vikings in tackles last year.
Ced Griffen was 2nd, by a large margin.
Cover 2 needs the corners to be good tacklers.

There was a reason teams ran at Deion Sanders all the time.

=Z=


Teams don't run against us though. They pass.

Is there a way we can be good at both Coverage and against the Run?

32nd against the pass is unacceptable.


Tied for 11th in the # of pts given up is acceptable.


I guess... if you're ok settling for 11th.

I'm ok with the scheme and I'm ok with the 11th ranking, what I'm not happy about is sustained drives (even though they don't give up points) as it takes time away from the offense.

Our D needs to do a better job of getting off the field and giving the ball back to the offense this year.

1,063 total plays against our D ranks as the 4th worst only behind Det, 49rs and Browns, in that order.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=0F8474590273164824DF86480CF90E64?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=SCRIMMAGE_PLAYS&d-447263-n=1&season=2007&Submit=Go&qualified=true&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

Json
08-15-2008, 11:22 AM
I'm ok with the scheme and I'm ok with the 11th ranking, what I'm not happy about is sustained drives (even though they don't give up points) as it takes time away from the offense.

Our D needs to do a better job of getting off the field and giving the ball back to the offense this year.

1,063 total plays against our D ranks as the 4th worst only behind Det, 49rs and Browns, in that order.

Now that is some painful stats my friends....Down right painful!
If the pass defense does not improve on many levels we are doomed.

C Mac D
08-15-2008, 11:23 AM
"Json" wrote:



I'm ok with the scheme and I'm ok with the 11th ranking, what I'm not happy about is sustained drives (even though they don't give up points) as it takes time away from the offense.

Our D needs to do a better job of getting off the field and giving the ball back to the offense this year.

1,063 total plays against our D ranks as the 4th worst only behind Det, 49rs and Browns, in that order.

Now that is some painful stats my friends....Down right painful!
If the pass defense does not improve on many levels we are doomed.


That's all I'm saying.

You're not going to make it far in the playoffs (if you even make the playoffs) with a piss-poor pass D.

Zeus
08-15-2008, 11:24 AM
"C" wrote:


Bottom line, you're not going to win any championships with the 32nd ranked Pass D...

I don't care if we are 11th in scoring. I want the Vikes to win the SB.


The Indianapolis Colts won the Super Bowl in 2007 (following the 2006 season) with:
#21 overall ranked Defense
#23 ranked Defense in scoring
#32 ranked Defense in rushing defense
#2 ranked Defense in passing

However, I would like to point out that the #2 ranking there includes:
2nd-lowest pass attempts/game against
Middle of the pack (18th) in opposing QB rating (10 spots HIGHER than the Vikings)

My point is, I hope you can see, that stats don't mean shit if you score more than the other team.

=Z=

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 11:27 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Bottom line, you're not going to win any championships with the 32nd ranked Pass D...

I don't care if we are 11th in scoring. I want the Vikes to win the SB.


The Indianapolis Colts won the Super Bowl in 2007 (following the 2006 season) with:
#21 overall ranked Defense
#23 ranked Defense in scoring
#32 ranked Defense in rushing defense
#2 ranked Defense in passing

However, I would like to point out that the #2 ranking there includes:
2nd-lowest pass attempts/game against
Middle of the pack (18th) in opposing QB rating (10 spots HIGHER than the Vikings)

My point is, I hope you can see, that stats don't mean pooh if you score more than the other team.

=Z=

I hear ya my friend but it is hard to score when you don't have the ball.

I can think of a couple of games last year were the opposing team came out and had long scoring drives in the second half, eating up a good share of the clock, and limiting our attempts to score thereby forcing us to abandon the run and resort to passing.

That, my friend, didn't work out to well.
TOP is key to this whole arguement.
Our D needs to get off the field more and do it faster than they have in the past.

Zeus
08-15-2008, 11:28 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:




Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.


You act as if the only responsibility for a corner is to break up passes.
Last I heard, teams run about 50% of the time.
And if they run at Winfield, the back is going to go down.

Winfield was 4th on the Vikings in tackles last year.
Ced Griffen was 2nd, by a large margin.
Cover 2 needs the corners to be good tacklers.

There was a reason teams ran at Deion Sanders all the time.


Teams don't run against us though. They pass.

Is there a way we can be good at both Coverage and against the Run?

32nd against the pass is unacceptable.


Tied for 11th in the # of pts given up is acceptable.


I guess... if you're ok settling for 11th.

I'm ok with the scheme and I'm ok with the 11th ranking, what I'm not happy about is sustained drives (even though they don't give up points) as it takes time away from the offense.

Our D needs to do a better job of getting off the field and giving the ball back to the offense this year.

1,063 total plays against our D ranks as the 4th worst only behind Det, 49rs and Browns, in that order.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=0F8474590273164824DF86480CF90E64?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=SCRIMMAGE_PLAYS&d-447263-n=1&season=2007&Submit=Go&qualified=true&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1


Christ, Chicken Marty, relax.
Yes, I would like them off the field.
But the Vikings were 11th in Defensive Time-of-Possession in 2007.
So it's not quite the catastrophe you make it out to be.

What is the goal of playing a football game?
Scoring more points than your opponent.
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

=Z=

C Mac D
08-15-2008, 11:30 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Bottom line, you're not going to win any championships with the 32nd ranked Pass D...

I don't care if we are 11th in scoring. I want the Vikes to win the SB.


The Indianapolis Colts won the Super Bowl in 2007 (following the 2006 season) with:
#21 overall ranked Defense
#23 ranked Defense in scoring
#32 ranked Defense in rushing defense
#2 ranked Defense in passing

However, I would like to point out that the #2 ranking there includes:
2nd-lowest pass attempts/game against
Middle of the pack (18th) in opposing QB rating (10 spots HIGHER than the Vikings)

My point is, I hope you can see, that stats don't mean shit if you score more than the other team.

=Z=


All great points. That #32 ranked Defense in rushing defense completely changed in the playoffs however... they turned into the second best against the run, allowing only 82 RY a game... not to mention they have the #1 overall defense of the post-season that year.

I never said we couldn't make it to the playoffs, I said we wouldn't be there long if we continued to have the last ranked pass D.

A big step will be our offense and whether or not they can step up and put some points on the board and eat up clock as well. I have faith in our offense to progress though, they're not what I'm worried about.

Prophet
08-15-2008, 11:41 AM
I'll refer to the tactic that Z uses in his power rankings.

In 2007 the Vikings ranked 15th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go) in total point production with 22.9 pts/game on average.
On defense they tied for 11th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go) in pts given up per game with an average of 19.4.

So, one way to look at it is they are hovering around the magical mix of scoring more points than they are giving up.
That simply means they either have to step up the defense more (Jared Allen type pass rusher) or step up the offense more (TJAck with more experience, better receiving corps (no Williamson)) and they are over the cusp.


You can nitpick about all the details all you want.
The bottom-line for D is how many pts were given up and for O is how many pts were scored.
They are, and it is obvious, near the breaking point....on the good side of the breaking point with an average of less pts given up than scored...of being a contender.
The improvements on O and D would make even the biggest pessimist tend to think that they are moving in the right direction.

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 11:43 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"C" wrote:






Just my opinion... but I'd prefer a cover corner as opposed to a tackling corner.

I realize Winfield fits the cover 2 scheme, but I'm tired of watching teams pick apart our secondary.

Picks change games... tackles allow drives to continue.


You act as if the only responsibility for a corner is to break up passes.
Last I heard, teams run about 50% of the time.
And if they run at Winfield, the back is going to go down.

Winfield was 4th on the Vikings in tackles last year.
Ced Griffen was 2nd, by a large margin.
Cover 2 needs the corners to be good tacklers.

There was a reason teams ran at Deion Sanders all the time.


Teams don't run against us though. They pass.

Is there a way we can be good at both Coverage and against the Run?

32nd against the pass is unacceptable.


Tied for 11th in the # of pts given up is acceptable.


I guess... if you're ok settling for 11th.

I'm ok with the scheme and I'm ok with the 11th ranking, what I'm not happy about is sustained drives (even though they don't give up points) as it takes time away from the offense.

Our D needs to do a better job of getting off the field and giving the ball back to the offense this year.

1,063 total plays against our D ranks as the 4th worst only behind Det, 49rs and Browns, in that order.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=0F8474590273164824DF86480CF90E64?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=SCRIMMAGE_PLAYS&d-447263-n=1&season=2007&Submit=Go&qualified=true&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1


Christ, Chicken Marty, relax.
Yes, I would like them off the field.
But the Vikings were 11th in Defensive Time-of-Possession in 2007.
So it's not quite the catastrophe you make it out to be.

What is the goal of playing a football game?
Scoring more points than your opponent.
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

=Z=

If they were the 4th worst team at scrimmage plays against, they sure must have been quick drives.
You need to look at it to see if you had it in ascending or descending order. ;D

They were middle of the pack (15th) in giving up 3rd down conversions (didn't get off the field), 13th worst team in yards a game, and 11th WORST team in TOP.

That equates to a defense on the field alot, a offense that isn't on the field alot and a defense that will be tired late in the game and in games late in the season.

Again, very admirable that they were ranked 11th in giving up points but they need to get off the field sooner.
Nothing more, nothing less.

tastywaves
08-15-2008, 11:57 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


I'll refer to the tactic that Z uses in his power rankings.

In 2007 the Vikings ranked 15th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go) in total point production with 22.9 pts/game on average.
On defense they tied for 11th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go) in pts given up per game with an average of 19.4.

So, one way to look at it is they are hovering around the magical mix of scoring more points than they are giving up.
That simply means they either have to step up the defense more (Jared Allen type pass rusher) or step up the offense more (TJAck with more experience, better receiving corps (no Williamson)) and they are over the cusp.


You can nitpick about all the details all you want.
The bottom-line for D is how many pts were given up and for O is how many pts were scored.
They are, and it is obvious, near the breaking point....on the good side of the breaking point with an average of less pts given up than scored...of being a contender.
The improvements on O and D would make even the biggest pessimist tend to think that they are moving in the right direction.


Nice summary from a high level aspect.
Agreed that we have made good strides in the areas that we were weak in last year.
No faulting the org on the steps they are currently taking to improve the team, they have been very aggressive, very unMNlike.

I remain optimistic that we will be a significantly better team than last year.
We still have weaknesses and unknowns and we always will.
I would put our corners fairly low on our list of weaknesses.
This should be the best defense we have put on the field in a very long time, sans injuries.


Don't dwell on the passing yards allowed
ranking as much as what we really were last year.
That is a damned good defense that gave our anemic offense more than enough chances to try and win games.

And as I'm sure has been pointed out many times, shut down corners who are great in coverage but so-so in tackling, would not be a great fit on this team.
Our CB's play their roles well, the rest of the defense needs to to their job and you will see these guys in a different light.

Purple Floyd
08-15-2008, 12:10 PM
"C" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Bottom line, you're not going to win any championships with the 32nd ranked Pass D...

I don't care if we are 11th in scoring. I want the Vikes to win the SB.


The Indianapolis Colts won the Super Bowl in 2007 (following the 2006 season) with:
#21 overall ranked Defense
#23 ranked Defense in scoring
#32 ranked Defense in rushing defense
#2 ranked Defense in passing

However, I would like to point out that the #2 ranking there includes:
2nd-lowest pass attempts/game against
Middle of the pack (18th) in opposing QB rating (10 spots HIGHER than the Vikings)

My point is, I hope you can see, that stats don't mean shit if you score more than the other team.

=Z=


All great points. That #32 ranked Defense in rushing defense completely changed in the playoffs however... they turned into the second best against the run, allowing only 82 RY a game... not to mention they have the #1 overall defense of the post-season that year.

I never said we couldn't make it to the playoffs, I said we wouldn't be there long if we continued to have the last ranked pass D.

A big step will be our offense and whether or not they can step up and put some points on the board and eat up clock as well. I have faith in our offense to progress though, they're not what I'm worried about.


One other factor that always goes unmentioned in regards to our pass defense is that all of those yards given up end up giving the offense unfavorable field position to start drives,which I would suggest contributes to some of our offensive problems. The difference of even 10 yards in average starting position can make a big difference in the scoring offense.

Marrdro
08-15-2008, 12:11 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


One other factor that always goes unmentioned in regards to our pass defense is that all of those yards given up end up giving the offense unfavorable field position to start drives,which I would suggest contributes to some of our offensive problems. The difference of even 10 yards in average starting position can make a big difference in the scoring offense.


Damn, I thought I got them all.
;D

Excellent point my friend.

jonboy
08-15-2008, 04:03 PM
Everyone talks about Winfields smash mouth tackleing....but i'd rather he defend the ball and not allow the reception for once, then have him punish someone downfield after they beat him fo 20 yds.

Zeus
08-17-2008, 09:32 AM
"jonboy" wrote:


Everyone talks about Winfields smash mouth tackleing....but i'd rather he defend the ball and not allow the reception for once, then have him punish someone downfield after they beat him fo 20 yds.


Yeah.

You're wrong.

Thanks!

=Z=

singersp
08-17-2008, 10:08 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"jonboy" wrote:


Everyone talks about Winfields smash mouth tackleing....but i'd rather he defend the ball and not allow the reception for once, then have him punish someone downfield after they beat him fo 20 yds.


Yeah.

You're wrong.

Thanks!

=Z=


How can he be wrong about what he'd like to see?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather see the balls get knocked away or knocked out for an incompletion myself.

Apparently, you like seeing our opponents make those catches & then get tackled.

Zeus
08-17-2008, 10:14 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jonboy" wrote:


Everyone talks about Winfields smash mouth tackleing....but i'd rather he defend the ball and not allow the reception for once, then have him punish someone downfield after they beat him fo 20 yds.


Yeah.

You're wrong.

Thanks!


How can he be wrong about what he'd like to see?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather see the balls get knocked away or knocked out for an incompletion myself.

Apparently, you like seeing our opponents make those catches & then get tackled.


I'm in a grunty mood this AM.

I like seeing opponents fail horribly.


As to CB play, I like the corners to make tackles and not get beat by YAC, as the Cover 2 (our system) dictates.

=Z=

singersp
08-17-2008, 10:28 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jonboy" wrote:


Everyone talks about Winfields smash mouth tackleing....but i'd rather he defend the ball and not allow the reception for once, then have him punish someone downfield after they beat him fo 20 yds.


Yeah.

You're wrong.

Thanks!


How can he be wrong about what he'd like to see?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather see the balls get knocked away or knocked out for an incompletion myself.

Apparently, you like seeing our opponents make those catches & then get tackled.


I'm in a grunty mood this AM.

I like seeing opponents fail horribly.


As to CB play, I like the corners to make tackles and not get beat by YAC, as the Cover 2 (our system) dictates.

=Z=


LOL! I've read your posts. I had that figured out already.

The only problem I have with the cover 2 defense is that teams have been nickel & diming us to death. That keeps our defense on the field longer & our offense off of it.

Look at all the yards we gave up on pass plays last year. Those huge numbers were not a result of a ton of YAC's, but rather the sum of a shitload of short passes we gave up.

vikinggreg
08-17-2008, 10:57 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jonboy" wrote:


Everyone talks about Winfields smash mouth tackleing....but i'd rather he defend the ball and not allow the reception for once, then have him punish someone downfield after they beat him fo 20 yds.


Yeah.

You're wrong.

Thanks!

=Z=


How can he be wrong about what he'd like to see?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather see the balls get knocked away or knocked out for an incompletion myself.

Apparently, you like seeing our opponents make those catches & then get tackled.


I'd like to see that too, but with Winfield being 5'9" if he tighten up his coverage too much and was playing the ball then the WR I think we'd end up seeing him get beat by more big plays.
That seems to be the big part of our D's scheme, keep things in front of you, don't over commit and tighten up in the red zone, hold them to 3.
Vanilla defense ;)

jessejames09
08-17-2008, 11:31 AM
"vikinggreg" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jonboy" wrote:


Everyone talks about Winfields smash mouth tackleing....but i'd rather he defend the ball and not allow the reception for once, then have him punish someone downfield after they beat him fo 20 yds.


Yeah.

You're wrong.

Thanks!

=Z=


How can he be wrong about what he'd like to see?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather see the balls get knocked away or knocked out for an incompletion myself.

Apparently, you like seeing our opponents make those catches & then get tackled.


I'd like to see that too, but with Winfield being 5'9" if he tighten up his coverage too much and was playing the ball then the WR I think we'd end up seeing him get beat by more big plays.
That seems to be the big part of our D's scheme, keep things in front of you, don't over commit and tighten up in the red zone, hold them to 3.
Vanilla defense ;)




It's almost like we're playing a cover 2 and that's whats expected of them, and thats what they contribute to out great D.... Almost. But no getting our hands on physical corners to play a zone was a big mistake. ::)

jargomcfargo
08-17-2008, 07:29 PM
OK. I read the whole thread. The arguement should not be about Winfield. The arguement is really over the scheme.

Is the cover 2 a good scheme for our defense?

We had Smoot,the supposed shut down corner in our scheme. How did that work out?

Winfield is the perfect corner in a cover two scheme. And Griffin is showing real improvement in pre-season this year.

The addition of Allen, one of the quickest ends I've seen, and if,and this is really the key, Kevin Williams gets back to his old form, the cover 2 will work fine this year.

But so far, our version of the cover 2 reminds me of a prevent defense.
So I hope Kevin Williams can disrupt the pocket.

Our best teams had penetrating tackles with names like Page, Millard, and Randle.
I say those guys made the ends on their teams great.
I really doubt Doleman would have had as many sacks without Millard.

Allen is great. But the scheme needs a penetrating tackle so we don't have to use our linebackers to blitz as much.

Then the corners and linebackers will reap the benefits.

BleedinPandG
08-17-2008, 07:41 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


OK. I read the whole thread. The arguement should not be about Winfield. The arguement is really over the scheme.

Is the cover 2 a good scheme for our defense?

We had Smoot,the supposed shut down corner in our scheme. How did that work out?

Winfield is the perfect corner in a cover two scheme. And Griffin is showing real improvement in pre-season this year.

The addition of Allen, one of the quickest ends I've seen, and if,and this is really the key, Kevin Williams gets back to his old form, the cover 2 will work fine this year.

But so far, our version of the cover 2 reminds me of a prevent defense.
So I hope Kevin Williams can disrupt the pocket.

Our best teams had penetrating tackles with names like Page, Millard, and Randle.
I say those guys made the ends on their teams great.
I really doubt Doleman would have had as many sacks without Millard.

Allen is great. But the scheme needs a penetrating tackle so we don't have to use our linebackers to blitz as much.

Then the corners and linebackers will reap the benefits.


Honestly, I think the Vikes are trying to figure out what sort of D to run this year.
Watching the first series last night, the Vikings did a TON of run blitzing, I've never seen them do that before.
I think the Vikings realize having a dominant defensive line allows for some other types of Defense, maybe more man to man, maybe more delayed blitzes, etc.
I expect to see them try a few more things in the next 2 games as they work to develop a confusing, unpredictable, dominant defense.

MNFAN1972
08-17-2008, 07:54 PM
Lots of talent on this team this year.
What we will do with it is still to be seen.
I think that the key is going to be the play of our LB's.
With the D line where it should be #56 should have a great year and Chad and Ben should do good as well.

jargomcfargo
08-17-2008, 07:55 PM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


OK. I read the whole thread. The arguement should not be about Winfield. The arguement is really over the scheme.

Is the cover 2 a good scheme for our defense?

We had Smoot,the supposed shut down corner in our scheme. How did that work out?

Winfield is the perfect corner in a cover two scheme. And Griffin is showing real improvement in pre-season this year.

The addition of Allen, one of the quickest ends I've seen, and if,and this is really the key, Kevin Williams gets back to his old form, the cover 2 will work fine this year.

But so far, our version of the cover 2 reminds me of a prevent defense.
So I hope Kevin Williams can disrupt the pocket.

Our best teams had penetrating tackles with names like Page, Millard, and Randle.
I say those guys made the ends on their teams great.
I really doubt Doleman would have had as many sacks without Millard.

Allen is great. But the scheme needs a penetrating tackle so we don't have to use our linebackers to blitz as much.

Then the corners and linebackers will reap the benefits.


Honestly, I think the Vikes are trying to figure out what sort of D to run this year.
Watching the first series last night, the Vikings did a TON of run blitzing, I've never seen them do that before.
I think the Vikings realize having a dominant defensive line allows for some other types of Defense, maybe more man to man, maybe more delayed blitzes, etc.
I expect to see them try a few more things in the next 2 games as they work to develop a confusing, unpredictable, dominant defense.


Frazier appeared to be unhappy during the first pre-season game.
He's known to change things up and did some of that last year.
That run blitz didn't work out so well on that one play.But all in all they looked better last night. Of course they weren't playing against all the starters.

One thing Allen brings us is a change in run coverage on his side. If Allen rushes inside, someone has to be outside to contain the run out there.
It really isn't a change in scheme as much as Allen is so fast he leaves a big hole outside.

I predict we won't be the number one rush defense this year.
But I also predict we will be a better pass defense.
And I can live with that.

Alharrissuks91
08-17-2008, 07:59 PM
"MaxVike" wrote:


Pressure, Pressure, Pressure!!!
Any NFL QB will shred any defense if he has time to throw the rock.
Case in point, Jared Allen coming to the Vikes and becoming the highest paid defensive player in the League.
I think the line will provide pressure, IMO, the linebacking crew needs to step up just as much as the defensive backs.
Presumably, the opposing QB will have less time this year, which means the TE, RB's and slot receivers will be a focus because their routes are shorter.
We shall see, but, if the D-Line does their job, that's what happens...or, the QB GOES DOWN UNDER A SEA OF PURPLE ;D


lol i definitely agree and did anyone notice that if rodgers is hurried not even sacked he looks like an idiot i saw the highlights of the pukers last pre-season game and he was pressured like crazy i say we will make the packers wish they didn't trade favre speaking of which he didn't look too bad for the jets

singersp
08-17-2008, 08:11 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


OK. I read the whole thread. The arguement should not be about Winfield. The arguement is really over the scheme.

Is the cover 2 a good scheme for our defense?

We had Smoot,the supposed shut down corner in our scheme. How did that work out?

Winfield is the perfect corner in a cover two scheme. And Griffin is showing real improvement in pre-season this year.

The addition of Allen, one of the quickest ends I've seen, and if,and this is really the key, Kevin Williams gets back to his old form, the cover 2 will work fine this year.

But so far, our version of the cover 2 reminds me of a prevent defense.
So I hope Kevin Williams can disrupt the pocket.

Our best teams had penetrating tackles with names like Page, Millard, and Randle.
I say those guys made the ends on their teams great.
I really doubt Doleman would have had as many sacks without Millard.

Allen is great. But the scheme needs a penetrating tackle so we don't have to use our linebackers to blitz as much.

Then the corners and linebackers will reap the benefits.


Honestly, I think the Vikes are trying to figure out what sort of D to run this year.
Watching the first series last night, the Vikings did a TON of run blitzing, I've never seen them do that before.
I think the Vikings realize having a dominant defensive line allows for some other types of Defense, maybe more man to man, maybe more delayed blitzes, etc.
I expect to see them try a few more things in the next 2 games as they work to develop a confusing, unpredictable, dominant defense.


Frazier appeared to be unhappy during the first pre-season game.
He's known to change things up and did some of that last year.
That run blitz didn't work out so well on that one play.But all in all they looked better last night. Of course they weren't playing against all the starters.

One thing Allen brings us is a change in run coverage on his side. If Allen rushes inside, someone has to be outside to contain the run out there.
It really isn't a change in scheme as much as Allen is so fast he leaves a big hole outside.

I predict we won't be the number one rush defense this year.
But I also predict we will be a better pass defense.
And I can live with that.


Well in all fairness, we weren't playing with all our starters either.

jargomcfargo
08-17-2008, 09:19 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


OK. I read the whole thread. The arguement should not be about Winfield. The arguement is really over the scheme.

Is the cover 2 a good scheme for our defense?

We had Smoot,the supposed shut down corner in our scheme. How did that work out?

Winfield is the perfect corner in a cover two scheme. And Griffin is showing real improvement in pre-season this year.

The addition of Allen, one of the quickest ends I've seen, and if,and this is really the key, Kevin Williams gets back to his old form, the cover 2 will work fine this year.

But so far, our version of the cover 2 reminds me of a prevent defense.
So I hope Kevin Williams can disrupt the pocket.

Our best teams had penetrating tackles with names like Page, Millard, and Randle.
I say those guys made the ends on their teams great.
I really doubt Doleman would have had as many sacks without Millard.

Allen is great. But the scheme needs a penetrating tackle so we don't have to use our linebackers to blitz as much.

Then the corners and linebackers will reap the benefits.


Honestly, I think the Vikes are trying to figure out what sort of D to run this year.
Watching the first series last night, the Vikings did a TON of run blitzing, I've never seen them do that before.
I think the Vikings realize having a dominant defensive line allows for some other types of Defense, maybe more man to man, maybe more delayed blitzes, etc.
I expect to see them try a few more things in the next 2 games as they work to develop a confusing, unpredictable, dominant defense.


Frazier appeared to be unhappy during the first pre-season game.
He's known to change things up and did some of that last year.
That run blitz didn't work out so well on that one play.But all in all they looked better last night. Of course they weren't playing against all the starters.

One thing Allen brings us is a change in run coverage on his side. If Allen rushes inside, someone has to be outside to contain the run out there.
It really isn't a change in scheme as much as Allen is so fast he leaves a big hole outside.

I predict we won't be the number one rush defense this year.
But I also predict we will be a better pass defense.
And I can live with that.


Well in all fairness, we weren't playing with all our starters either.


That's funny. I guess you thought our defense was playing against a good team?
This thread is about pass defense.
Check out the following quote, then read the article linked.
It's not even close to fair.

QUOTE
"The quarterbacks are being held hostage to a situation where injuries have sidelined half of the offensive starting line up, including the two tackles."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ordine/blog/2008/08/post_457.html

Prophet
08-19-2008, 11:33 AM
A few interesting quotes: (http://presspubs.com/articles/2008/08/18/shoreview_press/sports/doc48a981dc24768713431764.txt)



...“They brought me here to produce and produce wins and to work with my teammates to make myself better and make them better,” Allen said. “That is my role.”

Allen’s presence will also help take pressure off defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams. The “Williams Wall” has been more than adequate in stopping the run over the years. But Pat Williams is not a pass rusher and Kevin is so good that teams often double-teamed him in those situations.

Now, opponents will have to choose whether they want to double-team one or the other.

Vikings head coach Brad Childress has high hopes for the pass rush, as long as it doesn’t come at the expense of Minnesota’s top-notch run defense.

“Hopefully we don’t take any steps back in terms of our run defense because I don’t want that to be negotiable,” Childress said. “I want these guys to be stout against the run.”...

Marrdro
08-19-2008, 12:01 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


A few interesting quotes: (http://presspubs.com/articles/2008/08/18/shoreview_press/sports/doc48a981dc24768713431764.txt)



...“They brought me here to produce and produce wins and to work with my teammates to make myself better and make them better,” Allen said. “That is my role.”

Allen’s presence will also help take pressure off defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams. The “Williams Wall” has been more than adequate in stopping the run over the years. But Pat Williams is not a pass rusher and Kevin is so good that teams often double-teamed him in those situations.

Now, opponents will have to choose whether they want to double-team one or the other.

Vikings head coach Brad Childress has high hopes for the pass rush, as long as it doesn’t come at the expense of Minnesota’s top-notch run defense.

“Hopefully we don’t take any steps back in terms of our run defense because I don’t want that to be negotiable,” Childress said. “I want these guys to be stout against the run.”...


Very interesting quote there my friend.

Key words for me are "Hopefully".
Does "I want" out trump that?

Prophet
08-19-2008, 12:06 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


A few interesting quotes: (http://presspubs.com/articles/2008/08/18/shoreview_press/sports/doc48a981dc24768713431764.txt)



...“They brought me here to produce and produce wins and to work with my teammates to make myself better and make them better,” Allen said. “That is my role.”

Allen’s presence will also help take pressure off defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams. The “Williams Wall” has been more than adequate in stopping the run over the years. But Pat Williams is not a pass rusher and Kevin is so good that teams often double-teamed him in those situations.

Now, opponents will have to choose whether they want to double-team one or the other.

Vikings head coach Brad Childress has high hopes for the pass rush, as long as it doesn’t come at the expense of Minnesota’s top-notch run defense.

“Hopefully we don’t take any steps back in terms of our run defense because I don’t want that to be negotiable,” Childress said. “I want these guys to be stout against the run.”...


Very interesting quote there my friend.

Key words for me are "Hopefully".
Does "I want" out trump that?


He flunked out of law school.
At least Childress knows at least as much as the hacks on pp.o.
He must be a member here.

Purple Floyd
08-19-2008, 12:09 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


A few interesting quotes: (http://presspubs.com/articles/2008/08/18/shoreview_press/sports/doc48a981dc24768713431764.txt)



...“They brought me here to produce and produce wins and to work with my teammates to make myself better and make them better,” Allen said. “That is my role.”

Allen’s presence will also help take pressure off defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams. The “Williams Wall” has been more than adequate in stopping the run over the years. But Pat Williams is not a pass rusher and Kevin is so good that teams often double-teamed him in those situations.

Now, opponents will have to choose whether they want to double-team one or the other.

Vikings head coach Brad Childress has high hopes for the pass rush, as long as it doesn’t come at the expense of Minnesota’s top-notch run defense.

“Hopefully we don’t take any steps back in terms of our run defense because I don’t want that to be negotiable,” Childress said. “I want these guys to be stout against the run.”...


Very interesting quote there my friend.

Key words for me are "Hopefully".
Does "I want" out trump that?


He's leaving himself wiggle room. I know he picked that up on PP.O ;D

vikings4life33
08-21-2008, 10:23 AM
_Yeah i was not happy when i watched the seattle game. Matt H passed all over us. i am just keeping my fingers crossed.