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singersp
08-10-2008, 07:45 AM
Vikings' Peterson will be even better (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/26444849.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUl)

Last year's rookie sensation hasn't rested on his laurels. The star running back and his position coach have been hard at work refining his skills.

By SID HARTMAN, Star Tribune

Last update: August 8, 2008 - 11:53 PM

Marrdro
08-10-2008, 10:15 AM
Thanks for the read my friend.

I've said it alot on here, but it is worth highlighting again.


Backs have been beating 8 man fronts for years when teams didn't have a passing game. It isn't like they just invented it halfway through the season last year.
Truth of the matter is that by teaching him to recognize what the defense is doing it will help him in the long run when it comes to running against them.

I really am looking forward to watching this kid run this year.
He is gonna out do AD of last year by a significant mark.

NDVikingFan66
08-10-2008, 12:41 PM
With everyone getting another year under their belt (AD/TJ/Rice/Allison/Wade/Ferguson), and the addition of BB, this offense should continue to improve as the season progresses.

I am looking forward to Week 1, but more importantly, each and every following week as we continue to improve.
By the time the post season rolls along, hopefully we will be clicking, and still have some things the opposing D's have not yet seen

i_bleed_purple
08-10-2008, 01:00 PM
I really liked what I saw from the 1st team offense when it came to passing.
I think that will really go far to help opening up big holes for AD and Chester to run through.
If they can come out and do that in regular season, against starters who actually care, that will be fantastic.
If the passing game clicks, I can expect to see Peterson top 15000 yards.
Hopefully he can get the 2,000 yard mark, but I doubt that will happen as long as Taylor is around.

marstc09
08-10-2008, 01:17 PM
He's light years ahead of where he was last season.

:o He could be scary this year if this is true and TJ does what he did on Friday.

sh01002
08-10-2008, 11:51 PM
he should be better...it's a new year

Warp
08-11-2008, 12:34 AM
He will be better. Tj will be better was well. ;D

Schutz
08-11-2008, 01:42 AM
Sid must of heard it from some of his close personal friends.
::)
As much as I enjoy my fair share of AP crotch sniffing, I really wish the Strib would ask Sid to retire.

Vikes_King
08-11-2008, 02:08 AM
"Schutz" wrote:


Sid must of heard it from some of his close personal friends.
::)
As much as I enjoy my fair share of AP crotch sniffing, I really wish the Strib would ask Sid to retire.


the guy kind is ancient...

cogitans
08-11-2008, 07:41 PM
Peterson is ready (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d809edea3)

Mr Anderson
08-11-2008, 07:58 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Thanks for the read my friend.

I've said it alot on here, but it is worth highlighting again.



Backs have been beating 8 man fronts for years when teams didn't have a passing game. It isn't like they just invented it halfway through the season last year.
Truth of the matter is that by teaching him to recognize what the defense is doing it will help him in the long run when it comes to running against them.

I really am looking forward to watching this kid run this year.
He is gonna out do AD of last year by a significant mark.




IMO it's not so much Peterson recognizing the defense as it is preventing the defense from knowing what's coming.

Last year if Peterson was in we weren't passing. They knew if he was in the game he was most likely getting the ball and are just going to have LBs fill gaps and the secondary will essentially put pass protection as a second priority.

If Taylor was in the game they were expecting the pass, which is how he broke those big runs.


With the maturation of Tarvaris Jackson and Peterson's improved blocking ability there's no reason AD shouldn't make even 8 man fronts look like high school teams.

StillPurple
08-12-2008, 01:16 AM
Disagree that runners beat 8-man fronts. Are you kidding me ? Runners break off big runs when the defense is trying to take the pass away.

And the big passes come when the defense is trying to take the run away.

Football 101.

singersp
08-12-2008, 05:17 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Disagree that runners beat 8-man fronts. Are you kidding me ? Runners break off big runs when the defense is trying to take the pass away.

And the big passes come when the defense is trying to take the run away.

Football 101.


SP must have never seen a Chargers game. LT faces them every game. Taylor has also run against them & with better success.

StillPurple
08-12-2008, 12:39 PM
I have watched my share of Charger games in which the defense totally took L.T. out of the game by stacking the box.

Marrdro
08-12-2008, 03:15 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Disagree that runners beat 8-man fronts. Are you kidding me ? Runners break off big runs when the defense is trying to take the pass away.

And the big passes come when the defense is trying to take the run away.

Football 101.


SP must have never seen a Chargers game. LT faces them every game. Taylor has also run against them & with better success.

Or a Lions game when Barry was playing.
;D

BloodyHorns82
08-12-2008, 03:19 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I have watched my share of Charger games in which the defense totally took L.T. out of the game by stacking the box.


You must watch a lot of Chargers games because LT doesn't get shut down very often.
You don't rush for 2000 yards a season by getting shut down several times a year.

Marrdro
08-12-2008, 03:22 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I have watched my share of Charger games in which the defense totally took L.T. out of the game by stacking the box.

Did you see the games last year (before the knee injury) when they tried to take AD out and he still had success?

Comeon my friend, it isn't like they just came up with this defense because of AD.
RB's have been facing/and beating 8 man fronts all the time.

Heck, go back and read the article again.
You will see verbiage in there no how its done.

Will a better passing game help, of course (football 101) but a better job of recognizing what is coming so he can set up his blockers will help just as much (Football 202).

Prophet
08-12-2008, 03:27 PM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I have watched my share of Charger games in which the defense totally took L.T. out of the game by stacking the box.


You must watch a lot of Chargers games because LT doesn't get shut down very often.
You don't rush for 2000 yards a season by getting shut down several times a year.


He has never rushed for over 2000 yds in the NFL, he racked up 40 yds on the ground against the Vikings last year.

Yfz01
08-12-2008, 03:28 PM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I have watched my share of Charger games in which the defense totally took L.T. out of the game by stacking the box.


You must watch a lot of Chargers games because LT doesn't get shut down very often.
You don't rush for 2000 yards a season by getting shut down several times a year.


He hasn't rushed for 2000 yards in a season.
;)

i_bleed_purple
08-12-2008, 03:31 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Disagree that runners beat 8-man fronts. Are you kidding me ? Runners break off big runs when the defense is trying to take the pass away.

And the big passes come when the defense is trying to take the run away.

Football 101.


SP must have never seen a Chargers game. LT faces them every game. Taylor has also run against them & with better success.

Or a Lions game when Barry was playing.

;D


but Barry was a freak of nature, and no runner may ever be compared to him when it comes to avoiding tackles.

Marrdro
08-12-2008, 03:39 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Disagree that runners beat 8-man fronts. Are you kidding me ? Runners break off big runs when the defense is trying to take the pass away.

And the big passes come when the defense is trying to take the run away.

Football 101.


SP must have never seen a Chargers game. LT faces them every game. Taylor has also run against them & with better success.

Or a Lions game when Barry was playing.

;D


but Barry was a freak of nature, and no runner may ever be compared to him when it comes to avoiding tackles.

Barry was a very unique critter but don't you feel AD is as well?


Truth of the matter is there are alot of ways a RB can beat a 8 man front and most of it is being smart on how he runs against them.

I saw a series of slides on plays once (I will try to find it/them) on how the Lions ran against stacked boxes.
All of the plays were running plays.

Again, this isn't something new and there have been some smart coaches over the years who have come up with ways to negate it.

Marrdro
08-12-2008, 03:42 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Thanks for the read my friend.

I've said it alot on here, but it is worth highlighting again.



Backs have been beating 8 man fronts for years when teams didn't have a passing game. It isn't like they just invented it halfway through the season last year.
Truth of the matter is that by teaching him to recognize what the defense is doing it will help him in the long run when it comes to running against them.

I really am looking forward to watching this kid run this year.
He is gonna out do AD of last year by a significant mark.




IMO it's not so much Peterson recognizing the defense as it is preventing the defense from knowing what's coming.
Last year if Peterson was in we weren't passing. They knew if he was in the game he was most likely getting the ball and are just going to have LBs fill gaps and the secondary will essentially put pass protection as a second priority.

If Taylor was in the game they were expecting the pass, which is how he broke those big runs.


With the maturation of Tarvaris Jackson and Peterson's improved blocking ability there's no reason AD shouldn't make even 8 man fronts look like high school teams.

Couldn't agree more especially with your first comment.

Again, that all comes down to AD being a better back.
Knowing how to pickup a blitz in the passing game as well as knowing how to do the little things in the running game that both compliment each other.

By the way you have been strangley quite of late my friend.
We need more quality like this out of you....... ;D

BloodyHorns82
08-12-2008, 03:44 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I have watched my share of Charger games in which the defense totally took L.T. out of the game by stacking the box.


You must watch a lot of Chargers games because LT doesn't get shut down very often.
You don't rush for 2000 yards a season by getting shut down several times a year.


He has never rushed for over 2000 yds in the NFL, he racked up 40 yds on the ground against the Vikings last year.


I was rounding up.
;)

I pointed out he doesn't get shut down very often.
For someone to watch a "share" of chargers games where LT got shut down, they would have to have watched a lot of games because he doesn't get shut down very often.

I was at the game last year and believe me, I remember it well, and I remember rubbing it into all the Charger fans there with LT jerseys on.
;D

Prophet
08-12-2008, 03:47 PM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I have watched my share of Charger games in which the defense totally took L.T. out of the game by stacking the box.


You must watch a lot of Chargers games because LT doesn't get shut down very often.
You don't rush for 2000 yards a season by getting shut down several times a year.


He has never rushed for over 2000 yds in the NFL, he racked up 40 yds on the ground against the Vikings last year.


I was rounding up.
;)

I pointed out he doesn't get shut down very often.
For someone to watch a "share" of chargers games where LT got shut down, they would have to have watched a lot of games because he doesn't get shut down very often.

I was at the game last year and believe me, I remember it well, and I remember rubbing it into all the Charger fans there with LT jerseys on.
;D


...you can never pass up the opportunity to point out information pulled from the asshole.

i_bleed_purple
08-12-2008, 03:49 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Disagree that runners beat 8-man fronts. Are you kidding me ? Runners break off big runs when the defense is trying to take the pass away.

And the big passes come when the defense is trying to take the run away.

Football 101.


SP must have never seen a Chargers game. LT faces them every game. Taylor has also run against them & with better success.

Or a Lions game when Barry was playing.

;D


but Barry was a freak of nature, and no runner may ever be compared to him when it comes to avoiding tackles.

Barry was a very unique critter but don't you feel AD is as well?


Truth of the matter is there are alot of ways a RB can beat a 8 man front and most of it is being smart on how he runs against them.

I saw a series of slides on plays once (I will try to find it/them) on how the Lions ran against stacked boxes.
All of the plays were running plays.

Again, this isn't something new and there have been some smart coaches over the years who have come up with ways to negate it.



yes, AD is a "very uninque critter"
he has the ability to go around your, or through you, which is rare, but IMO, he doesn't even come close to comparing to Barry Sanders.
There will never be another Barry Sanders.

BloodyHorns82
08-12-2008, 03:51 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


I have watched my share of Charger games in which the defense totally took L.T. out of the game by stacking the box.


You must watch a lot of Chargers games because LT doesn't get shut down very often.
You don't rush for 2000 yards a season by getting shut down several times a year.


He has never rushed for over 2000 yds in the NFL, he racked up 40 yds on the ground against the Vikings last year.


I was rounding up.
;)

I pointed out he doesn't get shut down very often.
For someone to watch a "share" of chargers games where LT got shut down, they would have to have watched a lot of games because he doesn't get shut down very often.

I was at the game last year and believe me, I remember it well, and I remember rubbing it into all the Charger fans there with LT jerseys on.
;D


...you can never pass up the opportunity to point out information pulled from the asshole.


There is a plethora of information spewing from my asshole, although some may question its validity.

Marrdro
08-12-2008, 03:52 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:




Disagree that runners beat 8-man fronts. Are you kidding me ? Runners break off big runs when the defense is trying to take the pass away.

And the big passes come when the defense is trying to take the run away.

Football 101.


SP must have never seen a Chargers game. LT faces them every game. Taylor has also run against them & with better success.

Or a Lions game when Barry was playing.

;D


but Barry was a freak of nature, and no runner may ever be compared to him when it comes to avoiding tackles.

Barry was a very unique critter but don't you feel AD is as well?


Truth of the matter is there are alot of ways a RB can beat a 8 man front and most of it is being smart on how he runs against them.

I saw a series of slides on plays once (I will try to find it/them) on how the Lions ran against stacked boxes.
All of the plays were running plays.

Again, this isn't something new and there have been some smart coaches over the years who have come up with ways to negate it.



yes, AD is a "very uninque critter"
he has the ability to go around your, or through you, which is rare, but IMO, he doesn't even come close to comparing to Barry Sanders.
There will never be another Barry Sanders.
I will give you that last one, however, for this discussion, AD should be alot better at doing things that Barry did, i.e. setting up his blockers, reading what the defense is gonna do etc which will help him in this regard.

Again, a passing game will help but improvements in those areas (as the article points out) will make him a more effective runner against those stacked boxes.

i_bleed_purple
08-12-2008, 03:57 PM
I think really, the point is, this season AD shouldn't have to go up against stacked boxes.

You'll notice, that AD didn't do too bad against 8 men in the box, as thats what he had most of the season.
its when they completely ignored the pass and put 9 (ie. 49ers game)
thats when things got bad.
Add to the fact that there's young players like Hererra and Cook in there, it will be hard to run against 9 guys.
Remember, Barry Sanders had some of the most impressive runs in history, but he also had some of the biggest losses.

He did so well because he had such good change of direction and speed, he could run one way, run back, and when the line tires out, he'd burn right by them.
AD doesn't posess that kind of speed or quickness.
don't get me wrong, he's very fast and quick, but Barry was a freak.

Prophet
08-12-2008, 04:02 PM
Never gets old watching Sanders' highlights:

7T4oNJJYwNU

Watching Purple Jesus doesn't get ole either:

hyD_I4fTw-4&feature=related

It appears to me that AD is more of a downhill, get the fuck out of my way, see you later back than Sanders was.

C Mac D
08-12-2008, 04:10 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


It appears to me that AD is more of a downhill, get the fuck out of my way, see you later back than Sanders was.


I'm not saying AD is as maneuverable as Barry Sanders, but it looks like he can turn on a dime too.

Man... Sanders is fun to watch.

Mr Anderson
08-12-2008, 08:17 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Thanks for the read my friend.

I've said it alot on here, but it is worth highlighting again.



Backs have been beating 8 man fronts for years when teams didn't have a passing game. It isn't like they just invented it halfway through the season last year.
Truth of the matter is that by teaching him to recognize what the defense is doing it will help him in the long run when it comes to running against them.

I really am looking forward to watching this kid run this year.
He is gonna out do AD of last year by a significant mark.




IMO it's not so much Peterson recognizing the defense as it is preventing the defense from knowing what's coming.
Last year if Peterson was in we weren't passing. They knew if he was in the game he was most likely getting the ball and are just going to have LBs fill gaps and the secondary will essentially put pass protection as a second priority.

If Taylor was in the game they were expecting the pass, which is how he broke those big runs.


With the maturation of Tarvaris Jackson and Peterson's improved blocking ability there's no reason AD shouldn't make even 8 man fronts look like high school teams.

Couldn't agree more especially with your first comment.

Again, that all comes down to AD being a better back.
Knowing how to pickup a blitz in the passing game as well as knowing how to do the little things in the running game that both compliment each other.

By the way you have been strangley quite of late my friend.
We need more quality like this out of you....... ;D


Yeah, I've been lurking a bit more than usual lately. I just haven't really felt like posting honestly. I saw this and knew I could throw in my two cents and no one else had contributed the same opinion, so I did. I guess I've just been picking my spots. I'll most likely continue to do the same until the third preseason game. I'm debating posting in the Madieu injury thread, in response to the "more knee ligament injuries in soccer than the NFL." But it might be too easy :D

BBQ Platypus
08-12-2008, 09:18 PM
Fun fact: Adrian Peterson has changed his middle name to "F*cking" in preparation for this season.

hx38596
08-12-2008, 11:09 PM
Awful lot of Viking clips in that Barry video...
::)

Barry liked his turf, that's for sure.

erik5032
08-12-2008, 11:45 PM
"C" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


It appears to me that AD is more of a downhill, get the floop out of my way, see you later back than Sanders was.


I'm not saying AD is as maneuverable as Barry Sanders, but it looks like he can turn on a dime too.

Man... Sanders is fun to watch.


And twice a year very frustrating to watch!

I remember one game the vikings played the Lions and we stomped Barry... I cant remember it.

singersp
08-13-2008, 03:03 AM
"erik5032" wrote:



And twice a year very frustrating to watch!

I remember one game the vikings played the Lions and we stomped Barry... I cant remember it.


??? Worst case of short term memory I've ever heard of.

:P

singersp
08-13-2008, 03:10 AM
"erik5032" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


It appears to me that AD is more of a downhill, get the floop out of my way, see you later back than Sanders was.


I'm not saying AD is as maneuverable as Barry Sanders, but it looks like he can turn on a dime too.

Man... Sanders is fun to watch.


And twice a year very frustrating to watch!

I remember one game the vikings played the Lions and we stomped Barry... I cant remember it.


We held Sanders to 16 yards that game.

soonerbornNbred
08-13-2008, 06:36 AM
Barry was great, pobably the best, fun2watch...but as far as being faster than AD....AD ran a 4.37 at the combine and Barry ran a 4.37 for W.Fontes/ Gil Brandt workout... AD is special he has a chance to change the recordbooks, as he already has
Another thing looking at Barrys years he had the LUXURY of 3000 yard passing team heck Mitchell threw for 4300 in 96.... Barrys best year 97 the Lions passed for 3300....If the Passing game starts going AD will light it up even more

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 08:29 AM
combine means next to nothing.
Many people beat Hester in the 40, but when he straps on a helmet, he's faster than anyone out there.
All that matters is your game speed.
Barry was incredible, could stop and change directions on a dime, and had such good accelleration, that he was gone before you could even process waht just happened.
AD has great speed, he's got some good moves, but nowhere near the level of Barry Sanders.

BleedinPandG
08-13-2008, 11:01 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


combine means next to nothing.
Many people beat Hester in the 40, but when he straps on a helmet, he's faster than anyone out there.
All that matters is your game speed.
Barry was incredible, could stop and change directions on a dime, and had such good accelleration, that he was gone before you could even process waht just happened.
AD has great speed, he's got some good moves, but nowhere near the level of Barry Sanders.


I agree... AD runs through and over people and won't be caught from behind... Sanders just flat out ran around you.

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 11:02 AM
but it is pretty awesome, when you think about it.
Watch a tape of Walter Payton, or Barry Sanders highlights.
You think, they were one of a kind.
Then watch a tape of Peterson highlights from last year alone, and they're very similar.

Marrdro
08-13-2008, 11:22 AM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


combine means next to nothing.
Many people beat Hester in the 40, but when he straps on a helmet, he's faster than anyone out there.

All that matters is your game speed.
Barry was incredible, could stop and change directions on a dime, and had such good accelleration, that he was gone before you could even process waht just happened.
AD has great speed, he's got some good moves, but nowhere near the level of Barry Sanders.


I agree... AD runs through and over people and won't be caught from behind... Sanders just flat out ran around you.

All good points but kindof gets back to the point/highlights of the article.

What the coaching staff has worked with AD on this year is to kindof tailor his talents to the point that he doesn't have to run over people all the time and get around them at times like Barry did.

Sure, he doesn't have the stop/start prowess that Barry had, however, he does have enough of it to be able to couple that with his new found ability to accurately read a defense, know/recognize what they are trying to do and make his cuts accordingly as well as improving his abilities to pass block/pickup the blitz.

Will he be a Barry Sanders this year?
No, that isn't what I am say.
What I am saying and what I think the author is trying to say is that AD will be a more rounded back both in his approaches to beat 8 man fronts via the run as well as helping out in the passing game as well aleviating some of the predictability we had last year because of his limitations in that regard.

jmcdon00
08-13-2008, 11:51 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


combine means next to nothing.
Many people beat Hester in the 40, but when he straps on a helmet, he's faster than anyone out there.

All that matters is your game speed.
Barry was incredible, could stop and change directions on a dime, and had such good accelleration, that he was gone before you could even process waht just happened.
AD has great speed, he's got some good moves, but nowhere near the level of Barry Sanders.


I agree... AD runs through and over people and won't be caught from behind... Sanders just flat out ran around you.

All good points but kindof gets back to the point/highlights of the article.

What the coaching staff has worked with AD on this year is to kindof tailor his talents to the point that he doesn't have to run over people all the time and get around them at times like Barry did.

Sure, he doesn't have the stop/start prowess that Barry had, however, he does have enough of it to be able to couple that with his new found ability to accurately read a defense, know/recognize what they are trying to do and make his cuts accordingly as well as improving his abilities to pass block/pickup the blitz.

Will he be a Barry Sanders this year?
No, that isn't what I am say.
What I am saying and what I think the author is trying to say is that AD will be a more rounded back both in his approaches to beat 8 man fronts via the run as well as helping out in the passing game as well aleviating some of the predictability we had last year because of his limitations in that regard.

Exactly, Peterson is getting better, which has to scare every team in the NFL.
Barry Sanders is overrated anyway.

Barry Sanders, who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2004 (his first year of eligibility), scored one touchdown for every 35 touches in his 153 regular-season games, but just one touchdown in 112 postseason touches in six playoff games.
Indeed, Sanders' only career playoff touchdown was a 47-yard run against the Dallas Cowboys in a 1991 divisional-round playoff game in the Pontiac Silverdome. The Lions won that game 38-6. Sanders' touchdown came in the final minutes of the fourth quarter with Detroit already leading 31-6. The following week, the Lions went on the road to play the Washington Redskins at RFK Stadium. Sanders was not a factor. Detroit took a 41-10 beating.


Barry Sanders wasn't the same player away from home.
Sanders' postseason performance supports the notion that he was a product of the cozy, climate-controlled Silverdome. Nice carpet for easy, stop-on-a-dime maneuvering. Seventy-two degrees. Detroit faithful keeping the defensive line off balance with high decibel support.
In four career outdoor postseason games, Sanders averaged a paltry 2.8 yards per carry. He never scored a touchdown. And he never ran for more than 65 yards in a single game. With Sanders, the Lions went 0-4 in outdoor playoff games, losing by an average of 17 points.

Nobody is suggesting that a bust of Barry should not be in Canton. He's the third-leading rusher of all time with 15,269 yards. He holds the all-time NFL record for consecutive 1,000 seasons with 10, from 1989 to 1998. Sanders was the first player to rush for 1,500 yards in a season five times. He was selected to 10 Pro Bowls. In 1997, when he rushed for 2,053 yards, he was NFL co-MVP, an honor he should have not had to share with Brett Favre that season. In 1988, Sanders won the Heisman Trophy at Oklahoma State.

But this picture of perfection has a nasty blemish. Once Sanders got to the big stage, and got out of the Silverdome, he was a bust.

Take the wild-card playoff game at Lambeau Field in 1994. That season, Sanders averaged 5.7 yards per carry -- the second-highest total of his career. In the first round of the playoffs against the Green Bay Packers, on Lambeau Field's frozen tundra, Sanders set an NFL postseason record for rushing futility. He had 13 carries for minus-one yard. He had four catches that day -- for four yards. Which means he had 16 touches for a total of three yards -- 2.7 yards less than he averaged per rush in the regular season.

Now, the spirited defense of putting him in the Hall of Fame on the first ballot always includes the theory that Sanders was the only thing the Lions had going for them in The Barry Sanders Era. That's exactly what it is -- a theory, and a bad one at that.

Did we forget about wide receivers Herman Moore and Brett Perriman? The Lions stretched the field for Sanders -- especially in the Dome. This helped him be wildly successful -- in the regular season. And in the years when the Lions went to the playoffs, their defense was not awful. It was middle of the pack -- ranked 11th in 1991, 15th in 1993, 19th in 1994, 14th in 1995 and 10th in 1997.

There is another ugly scar on Sanders' career: His Greta Garbo act on the way out the door.

After rushing for 1,491 yards in 1998, Sanders abruptly and mysteriously retired. At the time, he was 1,457 yards shy of Walter Payton's all-time rushing record. His defenders say Sanders -- who played the game with dignity and class -- did not owe anybody anything. As long as he was at peace with the decision, that was enough. That's bunk.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3055421

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 11:53 AM
so would you risk your health and body to play for a team thats going nowhere?
I bet if he didn't play for the lions, he would have played longer, but after a certain amount of time, you get tired of being the best player on a terrible team

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 12:06 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


After rushing for 1,491 yards in 1998, Sanders abruptly and mysteriously retired. At the time, he was 1,457 yards shy of Walter Payton's all-time rushing record. His defenders say Sanders -- who played the game with dignity and class -- did not owe anybody anything. As long as he was at peace with the decision, that was enough. That's bunk.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3055421


I disagree. If the man wants to retire, he is allowed to retire. Perhaps he respected Payton too much to dethrone him from the record books. Either way, it doesn't really matter what you think of him retiring early, he did what he had to do for his own happiness. Football is a great game, but is by no means the most important aspect of life. Sanders realized this... you do not.

And who gives a shit what Sal Palantonio thinks? His paycheck is signed by the Disney Corporation.

jmcdon00
08-13-2008, 12:11 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


so would you risk your health and body to play for a team thats going nowhere?
I bet if he didn't play for the lions, he would have played longer, but after a certain amount of time, you get tired of being the best player on a terrible team

The lions wern't that bad. During his 10 years with the lions they made the playoffs 6 times. They also had one of the best passing games in the league, which made Barry's job easier. And there defense was consistantly average.

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 12:19 PM
yes they were.
They won all those times because of Sanders.
And likely, Sanders helped the passing game do well.
Go take a look at Detroit's record both before and after Sanders.
I bet its not very impressive.
They had a god-awful O line, which makes what he did even more impressive.

jmcdon00
08-13-2008, 12:28 PM
"C" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


After rushing for 1,491 yards in 1998, Sanders abruptly and mysteriously retired. At the time, he was 1,457 yards shy of Walter Payton's all-time rushing record. His defenders say Sanders -- who played the game with dignity and class -- did not owe anybody anything. As long as he was at peace with the decision, that was enough. That's bunk.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3055421


I disagree. If the man wants to retire, he is allowed to retire. Perhaps he respected Payton too much to dethrone him from the record books. Either way, it doesn't really matter what you think of him retiring early, he did what he had to do for his own happiness. Football is a great game, but is by no means the most important aspect of life. Sanders realized this... you do not.

And who gives a shit what Sal Palantonio thinks? His paycheck is signed by the Disney Corporation.

Just quoting an article. I agree that if he wants to retire he can, but he did put his team and teammates in a tough position, he was still under contract(in an era where that meant something). Heres the next paragraph of that article:
Here was a man who benefited greatly from the support of his teammates, his organization and his fans -- and he just turned his back on them without a word of gratitude. He left his teammates and a franchise in the lurch, to the point that the Lions demanded he return $7.3 million of his signing bonus.

And some other info I found:
http://www.blackathlete.com/Football/112003.shtml

(not so sure about the website, but seams legit).
Sanders' retirement was controversial because it came on the eve of training camp, and Sanders was close to the all-time rushing record in the NFL. He was only 31.

"Looking back, I could have done things differently, but at the time I wasn't trying to be diplomatic," Sanders writes. "I was trying to get my message out that I was finished, and I wasn't trying to make friends."

About his failure to return calls from then-coach Bobby Ross and others, Sanders writes: "Do I regret not returning the coach's phone calls? Not really."

But Sanders, who played 10 seasons with the Lions, does say he would have done one thing differently.

"There's only one thing that I would have changed: I would have wished my team good luck," he writes.

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 12:33 PM
He didn't owe the team anything, the Lions owed him everything.

jmcdon00
08-13-2008, 12:40 PM
"C" wrote:


He didn't owe the team anything, the Lions owed him everything.

Actually he owed them 7.3million dollars. ;D

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 12:47 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"C" wrote:


He didn't owe the team anything, the Lions owed him everything.

Actually he owed them 7.3million dollars. ;D


Touché my good man.

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 01:54 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


After rushing for 1,491 yards in 1998, Sanders abruptly and mysteriously retired. At the time, he was 1,457 yards shy of Walter Payton's all-time rushing record. His defenders say Sanders -- who played the game with dignity and class -- did not owe anybody anything. As long as he was at peace with the decision, that was enough. That's bunk.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3055421


I disagree. If the man wants to retire, he is allowed to retire. Perhaps he respected Payton too much to dethrone him from the record books. Either way, it doesn't really matter what you think of him retiring early, he did what he had to do for his own happiness. Football is a great game, but is by no means the most important aspect of life. Sanders realized this... you do not.

And who gives a shit what Sal Palantonio thinks? His paycheck is signed by the Disney Corporation.

Just quoting an article. I agree that if he wants to retire he can, but he did put his team and teammates in a tough position, he was still under contract(in an era where that meant something). Heres the next paragraph of that article:
Here was a man who benefited greatly from the support of his teammates, his organization and his fans -- and he just turned his back on them without a word of gratitude. He left his teammates and a franchise in the lurch, to the point that the Lions demanded he return $7.3 million of his signing bonus.

And some other info I found:
http://www.blackathlete.com/Football/112003.shtml

(not so sure about the website, but seams legit).
Sanders' retirement was controversial because it came on the eve of training camp, and Sanders was close to the all-time rushing record in the NFL. He was only 31.

"Looking back, I could have done things differently, but at the time I wasn't trying to be diplomatic," Sanders writes. "I was trying to get my message out that I was finished, and I wasn't trying to make friends."

About his failure to return calls from then-coach Bobby Ross and others, Sanders writes: "Do I regret not returning the coach's phone calls? Not really."

But Sanders, who played 10 seasons with the Lions, does say he would have done one thing differently.

"There's only one thing that I would have changed: I would have wished my team good luck," he writes.





who really gives a crap about how nice of a person sanders was.
we're talking about FOOTBALL skill, where Sanders, was unquestionably, the best runner that ever played in the NFL.

Zeus
08-13-2008, 01:56 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


who really gives a crap about how nice of a person sanders was.
we're talking about FOOTBALL skill, where Sanders, was unquestionably, the best runner that ever played in the NFL.


I question that, since it's likely you never saw Jimmy Brown play.


=Z=

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 02:05 PM
jim had the vision, and the power, and was probably the best all around back ever, but just as far as running and running alone goes, Sanders wins.

Zeus
08-13-2008, 02:37 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


jim had the vision, and the power, and was probably the best all around back ever, but just as far as running and running alone goes, Sanders wins.


Based upon what?
How can you possibly judge a player you've never seen?

=Z=

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 02:51 PM
I have seen highlights of him.
And based on his highlights, he's obviously a great runningback.
Most people say he's 2 for sure, arguably number 1, and I can't argue that.

He had power, moves and everything.
But, he was not as fast as Barry, nor as agile.
I also have what other people generations older than me have said too.
My dad thinks Jim Brown is the best back ever.
I ask him how he compares to Barry Sanders, and he said that Sanders is by far quicker, faster and just an overall better RUNNER, but Brown was the complete package.
If you think Brown is better at running and changing direction, than you are the first that I have heard think that.



If you need more proof, go to the NFL.com page for most elusive runners of all time and check out the poll.
81% of fans would agree with me.
Jim brown isn't even mentioned here.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=76880CE2E63F82862FE75623F1FE644D?id=09000d5d8087474a&template=with-video&confirm=true

Marrdro
08-13-2008, 02:54 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


I have seen highlights of him.
And based on his highlights, he's obviously a great runningback.
Most people say he's 2 for sure, arguably number 1, and I can't argue that.

He had power, moves and everything.
But, he was not as fast as Barry, nor as agile.
I also have what other people generations older than me have said too.
My dad thinks Jim Brown is the best back ever.
I ask him how he compares to Barry Sanders, and he said that Sanders is by far quicker, faster and just an overall better RUNNER, but Brown was the complete package.
If you think Brown is better at running and changing direction, than you are the first that I have heard think that.



If you need more proof, go to the NFL.com page for most elusive runners of all time and check out the poll.
81% of fans would agree with me.
Jim brown isn't even mentioned here.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=76880CE2E63F82862FE75623F1FE644D?id=09000d5d8087474a&template=with-video&confirm=true

Can't give dates and times but we do get to see re-airs/footage on NFLN on alot of the old time players that some of us didn't/can't remember seeing.

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 02:58 PM
yep, occasionally they'll have nfl classic games, or if they have a top 10, there will be some footage of some of the great players.

around the Hall of Fame time, they'll have a lot of stuff about the inductees, and sometimes some other players who played in their era.

Marrdro
08-13-2008, 03:01 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


yep, occasionally they'll have nfl classic games, or if they have a top 10, there will be some footage of some of the great players.

around the Hall of Fame time, they'll have a lot of stuff about the inductees, and sometimes some other players who played in their era.

I feel sorry for the souls who have yet to discover the NFLN....... ;D

Zeus
08-13-2008, 03:03 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


I have seen highlights of him.
And based on his highlights, he's obviously a great runningback.
Most people say he's 2 for sure, arguably number 1, and I can't argue that.

He had power, moves and everything.
But, he was not as fast as Barry, nor as agile.
I also have what other people generations older than me have said too.
My dad thinks Jim Brown is the best back ever.
I ask him how he compares to Barry Sanders, and he said that Sanders is by far quicker, faster and just an overall better RUNNER, but Brown was the complete package.
If you think Brown is better at running and changing direction, than you are the first that I have heard think that.


If you need more proof, go to the NFL.com page for most elusive runners of all time and check out the poll.
81% of fans would agree with me.
Jim brown isn't even mentioned here.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=76880CE2E63F82862FE75623F1FE644D?id=09000d5d8087474a&template=with-video&confirm=true


You seem to think that I'm arguing for Jimmy Brown.
I, personally, think the best RB in the history of the NFL was Walter Payton.

I just think you're using very strong language while talking out of your ass.
If highlights were the only thing on which players should be judged, Troy Williamson would be in the Hall of Fame.

=Z=

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 03:05 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


jim had the vision, and the power, and was probably the best all around back ever, but just as far as running and running alone goes, Sanders wins.


Based upon what? How can you possibly judge a player you've never seen?

=Z=


What??

You can see him on tapes and DVDs... lord knows when I was in Cleveland for college, both my roommates had them.

btw... you don't have to watch him to know that his career YPC was 5.2.

Just give him the ball twice and it's a first down.

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 03:06 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


I have seen highlights of him.
And based on his highlights, he's obviously a great runningback.
Most people say he's 2 for sure, arguably number 1, and I can't argue that.
He had power, moves and everything.
But, he was not as fast as Barry, nor as agile.
I also have what other people generations older than me have said too.
My dad thinks Jim Brown is the best back ever.
I ask him how he compares to Barry Sanders, and he said that Sanders is by far quicker, faster and just an overall better RUNNER, but Brown was the complete package.
If you think Brown is better at running and changing direction, than you are the first that I have heard think that.


If you need more proof, go to the NFL.com page for most elusive runners of all time and check out the poll.
81% of fans would agree with me.
Jim brown isn't even mentioned here.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=76880CE2E63F82862FE75623F1FE644D?id=09000d5d8087474a&template=with-video&confirm=true


You seem to think that I'm arguing for Jimmy Brown.
I, personally, think the best RB in the history of the NFL was Walter Payton.

I just think you're using very strong language while talking out of your ass.
If highlights were the only thing on which players should be judged, Troy Williamson would be in the Hall of Fame.

=Z=


Thats fine, but at only 4.4 YPC, it's hard to argue he was a better runnigback than Brown was.

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 03:15 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


I have seen highlights of him.
And based on his highlights, he's obviously a great runningback.
Most people say he's 2 for sure, arguably number 1, and I can't argue that.

He had power, moves and everything.
But, he was not as fast as Barry, nor as agile.
I also have what other people generations older than me have said too.
My dad thinks Jim Brown is the best back ever.
I ask him how he compares to Barry Sanders, and he said that Sanders is by far quicker, faster and just an overall better RUNNER, but Brown was the complete package.
If you think Brown is better at running and changing direction, than you are the first that I have heard think that.


If you need more proof, go to the NFL.com page for most elusive runners of all time and check out the poll.
81% of fans would agree with me.
Jim brown isn't even mentioned here.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=76880CE2E63F82862FE75623F1FE644D?id=09000d5d8087474a&template=with-video&confirm=true


You seem to think that I'm arguing for Jimmy Brown.
I, personally, think the best RB in the history of the NFL was Walter Payton.

I just think you're using very strong language while talking out of your ass.
If highlights were the only thing on which players should be judged, Troy Williamson would be in the Hall of Fame.

=Z=


No, its the other way around.
Based on highlights, I think that a different player is better.
Sometimes, highlights is all people have.
In 60 years, will we lose the ability to track who the best player of all time is? just because it happened before anyone can remember?

Zeus
08-13-2008, 03:26 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


I have seen highlights of him.
And based on his highlights, he's obviously a great runningback.
Most people say he's 2 for sure, arguably number 1, and I can't argue that.

He had power, moves and everything.
But, he was not as fast as Barry, nor as agile.
I also have what other people generations older than me have said too.
My dad thinks Jim Brown is the best back ever.
I ask him how he compares to Barry Sanders, and he said that Sanders is by far quicker, faster and just an overall better RUNNER, but Brown was the complete package.
If you think Brown is better at running and changing direction, than you are the first that I have heard think that.


If you need more proof, go to the NFL.com page for most elusive runners of all time and check out the poll.
81% of fans would agree with me.
Jim brown isn't even mentioned here.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=76880CE2E63F82862FE75623F1FE644D?id=09000d5d8087474a&template=with-video&confirm=true


You seem to think that I'm arguing for Jimmy Brown.
I, personally, think the best RB in the history of the NFL was Walter Payton.

I just think you're using very strong language while talking out of your ass.
If highlights were the only thing on which players should be judged, Troy Williamson would be in the Hall of Fame.


No, its the other way around.
Based on highlights, I think that a different player is better.
Sometimes, highlights is all people have.
In 60 years, will we lose the ability to track who the best player of all time is? just because it happened before anyone can remember?


If you use words like "unquestionably", I'm going to question it.

=Z=

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 03:29 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


I have seen highlights of him.
And based on his highlights, he's obviously a great runningback.
Most people say he's 2 for sure, arguably number 1, and I can't argue that.

He had power, moves and everything.
But, he was not as fast as Barry, nor as agile.
I also have what other people generations older than me have said too.
My dad thinks Jim Brown is the best back ever.
I ask him how he compares to Barry Sanders, and he said that Sanders is by far quicker, faster and just an overall better RUNNER, but Brown was the complete package.
If you think Brown is better at running and changing direction, than you are the first that I have heard think that.


If you need more proof, go to the NFL.com page for most elusive runners of all time and check out the poll.
81% of fans would agree with me.
Jim brown isn't even mentioned here.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=76880CE2E63F82862FE75623F1FE644D?id=09000d5d8087474a&template=with-video&confirm=true


You seem to think that I'm arguing for Jimmy Brown.
I, personally, think the best RB in the history of the NFL was Walter Payton.

I just think you're using very strong language while talking out of your ass.
If highlights were the only thing on which players should be judged, Troy Williamson would be in the Hall of Fame.


No, its the other way around.
Based on highlights, I think that a different player is better.
Sometimes, highlights is all people have.
In 60 years, will we lose the ability to track who the best player of all time is? just because it happened before anyone can remember?


If you use words like "unquestionably", I'm going to question it.

=Z=


question away, but unless you can come up with some type of proof showing a better runner than Barry, your question has no substance

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 03:38 PM
If you compare, side by side, Brown-Sanders-Payton stats.... I'd say its difficult to argue for anyone but Brown... And he was in the league for less years than the other two.

He averaged more yards per carry.

More yards per reception.

He only had 4 less career TDs than Payton, but played for 4 fewer years.

He had more recieving TDs than the other two.

Marrdro
08-13-2008, 03:44 PM
"C" wrote:


If you compare, side by side, Brown-Sanders-Payton stats.... I'd say its difficult to argue for anyone but Brown... And he was in the league for less years than the other two.

He averaged more yards per carry.

More yards per reception.

He only had 4 less career TDs than Payton, but played for 4 fewer years.

He had more recieving TDs than the other two.

I wonder if ole Jim faced some stacked boxes in his day and if he did, how did the QB do throwing against them.
;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Browns#1957.E2.80.9370:_The_Jim_Brown_Era

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 03:49 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


If you compare, side by side, Brown-Sanders-Payton stats.... I'd say its difficult to argue for anyone but Brown... And he was in the league for less years than the other two.

He averaged more yards per carry.

More yards per reception.

He only had 4 less career TDs than Payton, but played for 4 fewer years.

He had more recieving TDs than the other two.

I wonder if ole Jim faced some stacked boxes in his day and if he did, how did the QB do throwing against them.
;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Browns#1957.E2.80.9370:_The_Jim_Brown_Era


So you're judging his talent on something that wasn't in his control?

Hmmm... interesting concept.

Still doesn't prove anything however. You still ignored his receiving yards and TDs.

Zeus
08-13-2008, 03:50 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


I have seen highlights of him.
And based on his highlights, he's obviously a great runningback.
Most people say he's 2 for sure, arguably number 1, and I can't argue that.

He had power, moves and everything.
But, he was not as fast as Barry, nor as agile.
I also have what other people generations older than me have said too.
My dad thinks Jim Brown is the best back ever.
I ask him how he compares to Barry Sanders, and he said that Sanders is by far quicker, faster and just an overall better RUNNER, but Brown was the complete package.
If you think Brown is better at running and changing direction, than you are the first that I have heard think that.


If you need more proof, go to the NFL.com page for most elusive runners of all time and check out the poll.
81% of fans would agree with me.
Jim brown isn't even mentioned here.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=76880CE2E63F82862FE75623F1FE644D?id=09000d5d8087474a&template=with-video&confirm=true


You seem to think that I'm arguing for Jimmy Brown.
I, personally, think the best RB in the history of the NFL was Walter Payton.

I just think you're using very strong language while talking out of your ass.
If highlights were the only thing on which players should be judged, Troy Williamson would be in the Hall of Fame.


No, its the other way around.
Based on highlights, I think that a different player is better.
Sometimes, highlights is all people have.
In 60 years, will we lose the ability to track who the best player of all time is? just because it happened before anyone can remember?


If you use words like "unquestionably", I'm going to question it.


question away, but unless you can come up with some type of proof showing a better runner than Barry, your question has no substance


Okay, then, if you're so totally unwilling to budge on the asinine qualities of proclaiming something as "unquestionable", then I will:

1.
Career Yards/Game:

Jim Brown:
104.3

Barry Sanders:
99.8

2.
Career Yards/Attempt:

Jim Brown:
5.2

Barry Sanders:
5.0

3.
Career Rushing TDs:

Jim Brown:
108 (9 seasons - 12/season)

Barry Sanders:
99
(10 seasons - 9.9/season)

4.
VS. the rest of the NFL impact:

Jim Brown:
1st team All-NFL 8 seasons out of 9; led NFL in rushing 8 times; led NFL in


rushing TDs 5 times;
3 times NFL MVP

Barry Sanders:
1st team All-NFL 6 seasons out of 10; led NFL in rushing 4 times; led NFL


in rushing TDs once; NFL MVP one time

So, there's some evidence of an argument I'm not making that makes it seem like you're wrong.

Want more numbers?

=Z=

Marrdro
08-13-2008, 03:51 PM
"C" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


If you compare, side by side, Brown-Sanders-Payton stats.... I'd say its difficult to argue for anyone but Brown... And he was in the league for less years than the other two.

He averaged more yards per carry.

More yards per reception.

He only had 4 less career TDs than Payton, but played for 4 fewer years.

He had more recieving TDs than the other two.

I wonder if ole Jim faced some stacked boxes in his day and if he did, how did the QB do throwing against them.

;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Browns#1957.E2.80.9370:_The_Jim_Brown_Era


So you're judging his talent on something that wasn't in his control?

Hmmm... interesting concept.

Still doesn't prove anything however. You still ignored his receiving yards and TDs.

Just mucking about and trying to be an ass seeings how we are now so far off target.
;D ;D

I gave the link by he way with the info in it just in case someone missed my attempt at being stupid.

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 03:55 PM
never once did i say Sanders was the better runningback, or better at football.
All I was saying was he was a better runner.
More speed, more moves than anyone who ever played the game.
What I want is proof showing that Brown is shiftier, or faster, or can make people miss better than Sanders.
Aparantly you misunderstood what I was saying before, so I will will tell you what I think.
They are two completely different styles of runningback.

Jim Brown is the BEST BACK in all of football.
There may be another player who rivals Jim Brown.
His main asset, that makes good runningbacks, is his vision and his power.
Sanders #2 and Payton #3

Barry Sanders is the best pure RUNNER in probably all of sports.
There will never be another Barry Sanders.
Ever.
His asset was his quickness, agility and speed.
He is a speed back, who could make almost anyone miss.
YOu needed to swarm him to bring him down.

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 03:58 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


Okay, then, if you're so totally unwilling to budge on the asinine qualities of proclaiming something as "unquestionable", then I will:

1.
Career Yards/Game:

Jim Brown:
104.3

Barry Sanders:
99.8

2.
Career Yards/Attempt:

Jim Brown:
5.2

Barry Sanders:
5.0

3.
Career Rushing TDs:

Jim Brown:
108 (9 seasons - 12/season)

Barry Sanders:
99
(10 seasons - 9.9/season)

4.
VS. the rest of the NFL impact:

Jim Brown:
1st team All-NFL 8 seasons out of 9; led NFL in rushing 8 times; led NFL in


rushing TDs 5 times;
3 times NFL MVP

Barry Sanders:
1st team All-NFL 6 seasons out of 10; led NFL in rushing 4 times; led NFL


in rushing TDs once; NFL MVP one time

So, there's some evidence of an argument I'm not making that makes it seem like you're wrong.

Want more numbers?

=Z=


Ha... awesome stuff right there.

Zeus
08-13-2008, 03:59 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


Barry Sanders is the best pure RUNNER in probably all of sports.
There will never be another Barry Sanders.
Ever.
His asset was his quickness, agility and speed.
He is a speed back, who could make almost anyone miss.
YOu needed to swarm him to bring him down.


Dig deeper, dude.


You are trying to proclaim him as something unquantifiable and then demand that others provide more unquantifiable proof to dispute your unquantifiable claim.

And now you're trying to say Barry Sanders is the best "RUNNER in probably all of sports"?
Are you high?
Smoking the neighbors back 40 again?


How can you possibly make such an incredibly ludicrous statement without doubling over in laughter at your own silliness?

=Z=

Marrdro
08-13-2008, 04:00 PM
What are some of the things Bieniemy and Peterson worked on during the offseason?

Bieniemy said he and Peterson have watched film, talked extensively and done a lot of on-the-field work
How about those two cats called Coach Bieniemy and AD.
Working hard in the offseason to get better in all facets of his game.
;D

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 04:03 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


Barry Sanders is the best pure RUNNER in probably all of sports.
There will never be another Barry Sanders.
Ever.
His asset was his quickness, agility and speed.
He is a speed back, who could make almost anyone miss.
YOu needed to swarm him to bring him down.


Dig deeper, dude.


You are trying to proclaim him as something unquantifiable and then demand that others provide more unquantifiable proof to dispute your unquantifiable claim.

And now you're trying to say Barry Sanders is the best "RUNNER in probably all of sports"?
Are you high?
Smoking the neighbors back 40 again?


How can you possibly make such an incredibly ludicrous statement without doubling over in laughter at your own silliness?

=Z=


note that I said PROBABLY all of sport.
Name one person who has a better combination of speed, quickness and agility, who can stop and start and turn on a dime better than Sanders can.

Mr Anderson
08-13-2008, 04:28 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


Barry Sanders is the best pure RUNNER in probably all of sports.
There will never be another Barry Sanders.
Ever.
His asset was his quickness, agility and speed.
He is a speed back, who could make almost anyone miss.
YOu needed to swarm him to bring him down.


Dig deeper, dude.


You are trying to proclaim him as something unquantifiable and then demand that others provide more unquantifiable proof to dispute your unquantifiable claim.

And now you're trying to say Barry Sanders is the best "RUNNER in probably all of sports"?
Are you high?
Smoking the neighbors back 40 again?


How can you possibly make such an incredibly ludicrous statement without doubling over in laughter at your own silliness?

=Z=


note that I said PROBABLY all of sport.
Name one person who has a better combination of speed, quickness and agility, who can stop and start and turn on a dime better than Sanders can.


So vision, power, and patience are no longer assets of a great runner?

i_bleed_purple
08-13-2008, 04:30 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


Barry Sanders is the best pure RUNNER in probably all of sports.
There will never be another Barry Sanders.
Ever.
His asset was his quickness, agility and speed.
He is a speed back, who could make almost anyone miss.
YOu needed to swarm him to bring him down.


Dig deeper, dude.


You are trying to proclaim him as something unquantifiable and then demand that others provide more unquantifiable proof to dispute your unquantifiable claim.

And now you're trying to say Barry Sanders is the best "RUNNER in probably all of sports"?
Are you high?
Smoking the neighbors back 40 again?


How can you possibly make such an incredibly ludicrous statement without doubling over in laughter at your own silliness?

=Z=


note that I said PROBABLY all of sport.
Name one person who has a better combination of speed, quickness and agility, who can stop and start and turn on a dime better than Sanders can.


So vision, power, and patience are no longer assets of a great runner?


for the last time
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BEST RUNNINGBACK
I am talking about the best runner.
who has the best physical skills, who's quickest, fastest and most agile.
I don't know if I can make myself any more clearer.

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 04:33 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


for the last time
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BEST RUNNINGBACK
I am talking about the best runner.
who has the best physical skills, who's quickest, fastest and most agile.
I don't know if I can make myself any more clearer.


I've always loved when people make the "Best Pure Runner" argument... wtf?

So, even though Brown had more yards per carry, sanders is a better runner?

I think he may have been shiftier, for sure... but your argument is about as solid as a Liberace's dick in the playboy mansion.

jmcdon00
08-13-2008, 04:48 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


Barry Sanders is the best pure RUNNER in probably all of sports.
There will never be another Barry Sanders.
Ever.
His asset was his quickness, agility and speed.
He is a speed back, who could make almost anyone miss.
YOu needed to swarm him to bring him down.


Dig deeper, dude.


You are trying to proclaim him as something unquantifiable and then demand that others provide more unquantifiable proof to dispute your unquantifiable claim.

And now you're trying to say Barry Sanders is the best "RUNNER in probably all of sports"?
Are you high?
Smoking the neighbors back 40 again?


How can you possibly make such an incredibly ludicrous statement without doubling over in laughter at your own silliness?

=Z=


note that I said PROBABLY all of sport.
Name one person who has a better combination of speed, quickness and agility, who can stop and start and turn on a dime better than Sanders can.


So vision, power, and patience are no longer assets of a great runner?


for the last time
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BEST RUNNINGBACK
I am talking about the best runner.
who has the best physical skills, who's quickest, fastest and most agile.
I don't know if I can make myself any more clearer.

Is he a better runner than Usain Bolt?
Usain Bolt (born 21 August 1986) is a Jamaican sprinter, and the current world record holder in the 100 m (9.72 s), world junior record holder in the 200 metres (19.93 s), and Jamaican record holder in the 200 m (19.67s). His name and achievements in sprinting have earned him the media nickname "Lightning Bolt".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usain_Bolt

Yfz01
08-13-2008, 04:52 PM
"C" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


for the last time
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BEST RUNNINGBACK
I am talking about the best runner.
who has the best physical skills, who's quickest, fastest and most agile.
I don't know if I can make myself any more clearer.


I've always loved when people make the "Best Pure Runner" argument... wtf?

So, even though Brown had more yards per carry, sanders is a better runner?

I think he may have been shiftier, for sure... but your argument is about as solid as a Liberace's slick willy in the playboy mansion.


He was also against better talent on a team that was not very good.
Sanders also broke 2000 yards in his first season with a fullback, with a 6.0 yards per carry average.
Sanders is the best pure runner ever... "When I grow up I wanna run just like him" - Bo Jackson.

C Mac D
08-13-2008, 05:06 PM
"Yfz01" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


for the last time
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BEST RUNNINGBACK
I am talking about the best runner.
who has the best physical skills, who's quickest, fastest and most agile.
I don't know if I can make myself any more clearer.


I've always loved when people make the "Best Pure Runner" argument... wtf?

So, even though Brown had more yards per carry, sanders is a better runner?

I think he may have been shiftier, for sure... but your argument is about as solid as a Liberace's slick willy in the playboy mansion.


He was also against better talent on a team that was not very good.
Sanders also broke 2000 yards in his first season with a fullback, with a 6.0 yards per carry average.
Sanders is the best pure runner ever... "When I grow up I wanna run just like him" - Bo Jackson.



What? hahahaha.... how can you say that he faced better talent? How the hell do you know? Thats an asinine statement. Let me guess where you pulled that info from....

Also, how did Sanders do in the playoffs vs how Jim Brown did?

Zeus posted this earlier... I'd love to see you argue this.

"Zeus" wrote:


1.
Career Yards/Game:

Jim Brown:
104.3

Barry Sanders:
99.8

2.
Career Yards/Attempt:

Jim Brown:
5.2

Barry Sanders:
5.0

3.
Career Rushing TDs:

Jim Brown:
108 (9 seasons - 12/season)

Barry Sanders:
99
(10 seasons - 9.9/season)

4.
VS. the rest of the NFL impact:

Jim Brown:
1st team All-NFL 8 seasons out of 9; led NFL in rushing 8 times; led NFL in


rushing TDs 5 times;
3 times NFL MVP

Barry Sanders:
1st team All-NFL 6 seasons out of 10; led NFL in rushing 4 times; led NFL


in rushing TDs once; NFL MVP one time

Mr Anderson
08-13-2008, 05:28 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


Barry Sanders is the best pure RUNNER in probably all of sports.
There will never be another Barry Sanders.
Ever.
His asset was his quickness, agility and speed.
He is a speed back, who could make almost anyone miss.
YOu needed to swarm him to bring him down.


Dig deeper, dude.


You are trying to proclaim him as something unquantifiable and then demand that others provide more unquantifiable proof to dispute your unquantifiable claim.

And now you're trying to say Barry Sanders is the best "RUNNER in probably all of sports"?
Are you high?
Smoking the neighbors back 40 again?


How can you possibly make such an incredibly ludicrous statement without doubling over in laughter at your own silliness?

=Z=


note that I said PROBABLY all of sport.
Name one person who has a better combination of speed, quickness and agility, who can stop and start and turn on a dime better than Sanders can.


So vision, power, and patience are no longer assets of a great runner?


for the last time
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BEST RUNNINGBACK
I am talking about the best runner.
who has the best physical skills, who's quickest, fastest and most agile.
I don't know if I can make myself any more clearer.


Speed and agility are not the only physical skills though.

Power and vision/instincts are part of athleticism as well.

Yfz01
08-13-2008, 05:45 PM
"C" wrote:


"Yfz01" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


for the last time
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BEST RUNNINGBACK
I am talking about the best runner.
who has the best physical skills, who's quickest, fastest and most agile.
I don't know if I can make myself any more clearer.


I've always loved when people make the "Best Pure Runner" argument... wtf?

So, even though Brown had more yards per carry, sanders is a better runner?

I think he may have been shiftier, for sure... but your argument is about as solid as a Liberace's slick willy in the playboy mansion.


He was also against better talent on a team that was not very good.
Sanders also broke 2000 yards in his first season with a fullback, with a 6.0 yards per carry average.
Sanders is the best pure runner ever... "When I grow up I wanna run just like him" - Bo Jackson.



What? hahahaha.... how can you say that he faced better talent? How the hell do you know? Thats an asinine statement. Let me guess where you pulled that info from....

Also, how did Sanders do in the playoffs vs how Jim Brown did?

Zeus posted this earlier... I'd love to see you argue this.

"Zeus" wrote:


1.
Career Yards/Game:

Jim Brown:
104.3

Barry Sanders:
99.8

2.
Career Yards/Attempt:

Jim Brown:
5.2

Barry Sanders:
5.0

3.
Career Rushing TDs:

Jim Brown:
108 (9 seasons - 12/season)

Barry Sanders:
99
(10 seasons - 9.9/season)

4.
VS. the rest of the NFL impact:

Jim Brown:
1st team All-NFL 8 seasons out of 9; led NFL in rushing 8 times; led NFL in


rushing TDs 5 times;
3 times NFL MVP

Barry Sanders:
1st team All-NFL 6 seasons out of 10; led NFL in rushing 4 times; led NFL


in rushing TDs once; NFL MVP one time





How can i tell you he faced better talent??
Are you joking me? It's a different era in which there are a lot more ways to workout specific groups of muscles and improve.
How many people ran 4.3 40s back then?

Here are a few things Barry Sanders did well in the pros.
He rushed for a record 1500 yards in a season 5 times.
During the final 14 games of the 97' season he rushed for 2000 yards with an average of 6.5 yards a carry.
All ten years he was first or second team all pro and selected to the pro bowl.
76 games with at least 100 yards rushing
25 games with at least 150 yards rushing, second is Jim brown with 22.
15 career touchdowns over 50 yards, Brown is second with 12.

Not as impressive as what Brown did but on a dismal Lions team.
Barry Sanders did what no other running back could do on the Lions team and I truely believe that... But I guess you must believe that stats are everything and that Brett Favre is the best QB ever!

::)
And why argue vision?
Barry had amazing vision!
Check out this highlight video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T4oNJJYwNU
I know, Troy Williamson would be in the hall of fame if only it showed his highlights
::)
For arguments sake, I think Randy Moss is the best receiever ever, even over Jerry "the goat" Rice.
I'll argue both if I have too!

Schutz
08-13-2008, 11:01 PM
How about that AP?
:D

Purple Floyd
08-13-2008, 11:14 PM
Had he played football full time and not had that devastating hip injury Bo Jackson would have been better than Sanders.

I never liked the running style of Sanders as he would try to run 20 yards to avoid a tackle and often lose yards. Jackson and now AD would just lower their shoulder and go straight upfield running guys over if necessary.

Yfz01
08-13-2008, 11:29 PM
How can i tell you he faced better talent??
Are you joking me? It's a different era in which there are a lot more ways to workout specific groups of muscles and improve.
How many people ran 4.3 40s back then?

Here are a few things Barry Sanders did well in the pros.
He rushed for a record 1500 yards in a season 5 times.
During the final 14 games of the 97' season he rushed for 2000 yards with an average of 6.5 yards a carry.
All ten years he was first or second team all pro and selected to the pro bowl.
76 games with at least 100 yards rushing
25 games with at least 150 yards rushing, second is Jim brown with 22.
15 career touchdowns over 50 yards, Brown is second with 12.
14 straight games with over 100 yards rushing.

Not as impressive as what Brown did but on a dismal Lions team.
Barry Sanders did what no other running back could do on the Lions team and I truely believe that... But I guess you must believe that stats are everything and that Brett Favre is the best QB ever!
::)
And why argue vision?
Barry had amazing vision!
Check out this highlight video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T4oNJJYwNU
I know, Troy Williamson would be in the hall of fame if only it showed his highlights
::)
For arguments sake, I think Randy Moss is the best receiever ever, even over Jerry "the goat" Rice.
I'll argue both if I have too!

My other post doesn't show this so idk if im reposting it or not for you guys.

Mr Anderson
08-13-2008, 11:50 PM
"Yfz01" wrote:


How can i tell you he faced better talent??
Are you joking me? It's a different era in which there are a lot more ways to workout specific groups of muscles and improve.
How many people ran 4.3 40s back then?

Here are a few things Barry Sanders did well in the pros.
He rushed for a record 1500 yards in a season 5 times.
During the final 14 games of the 97' season he rushed for 2000 yards with an average of 6.5 yards a carry.
All ten years he was first or second team all pro and selected to the pro bowl.
76 games with at least 100 yards rushing
25 games with at least 150 yards rushing, second is Jim brown with 22.
15 career touchdowns over 50 yards, Brown is second with 12.
14 straight games with over 100 yards rushing.

Not as impressive as what Brown did but on a dismal Lions team.
Barry Sanders did what no other running back could do on the Lions team and I truely believe that... But I guess you must believe that stats are everything and that Brett Favre is the best QB ever!
::)
And why argue vision?
Barry had amazing vision!
Check out this highlight video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T4oNJJYwNU
I know, Troy Williamson would be in the hall of fame if only it showed his highlights
::)
For arguments sake, I think Randy Moss is the best receiever ever, even over Jerry "the goat" Rice.
I'll argue both if I have too!

My other post doesn't show this so idk if im reposting it or not for you guys.


You can't make the claim that Jim Brown was against inferior talent. The talent has changed, the nutrition, training, and knowledge has changed. Everyone was on an even playing field then, and they are now. It doesn't matter how many guys ran 4.3s back then, they all had the same opportunity to run their fastest.

And I will argue vision, if Barry's vision was so great he would have gotten up field a hell of a lot faster many times. Running around in circles in the backfield before heading up field doesn't help anyone. Don't get me wrong, he obviously had great vision, but not being able to find a hole after 5 seconds is a major flaw. However, having the ability to stay on your feet for that amount of time is simply remarkable.

If you want to talk about accomplishments in the two athletes careers here's one for you.
Jim Brown is in two Hall of Fames, Barry Sanders is in one.


I'm the biggest Moss fan in the world, but he is not the best WR ever, he is by far the most talented wide receiver ever. However, he lacked the work ethic early in his career to truly transcend greatness like Jerry Rice did. Jerry Rice relied on his personality to succeed, he doesn't have the speed, explosiveness, or hands(yes, hands) of Moss, but he worked harder than just about anyone, and look at where he is; arguably the best player in the history of the NFL. Had Moss possessed the attitude and willingness to work of Rice I honestly believe he would be the greatest player in the history of the NFL.

Yfz01
08-14-2008, 12:45 AM
"Mr" wrote:


"Yfz01" wrote:


How can i tell you he faced better talent??
Are you joking me? It's a different era in which there are a lot more ways to workout specific groups of muscles and improve.
How many people ran 4.3 40s back then?

Here are a few things Barry Sanders did well in the pros.
He rushed for a record 1500 yards in a season 5 times.
During the final 14 games of the 97' season he rushed for 2000 yards with an average of 6.5 yards a carry.
All ten years he was first or second team all pro and selected to the pro bowl.
76 games with at least 100 yards rushing
25 games with at least 150 yards rushing, second is Jim brown with 22.
15 career touchdowns over 50 yards, Brown is second with 12.
14 straight games with over 100 yards rushing.

Not as impressive as what Brown did but on a dismal Lions team.
Barry Sanders did what no other running back could do on the Lions team and I truely believe that... But I guess you must believe that stats are everything and that Brett Favre is the best QB ever!
::)
And why argue vision?
Barry had amazing vision!
Check out this highlight video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T4oNJJYwNU
I know, Troy Williamson would be in the hall of fame if only it showed his highlights
::)
For arguments sake, I think Randy Moss is the best receiever ever, even over Jerry "the goat" Rice.
I'll argue both if I have too!

My other post doesn't show this so idk if im reposting it or not for you guys.


You can't make the claim that Jim Brown was against inferior talent. The talent has changed, the nutrition, training, and knowledge has changed. Everyone was on an even playing field then, and they are now. It doesn't matter how many guys ran 4.3s back then, they all had the same opportunity to run their fastest.

And I will argue vision, if Barry's vision was so great he would have gotten up field a hell of a lot faster many times. Running around in circles in the backfield before heading up field doesn't help anyone. Don't get me wrong, he obviously had great vision, but not being able to find a hole after 5 seconds is a major flaw. However, having the ability to stay on your feet for that amount of time is simply remarkable.

If you want to talk about accomplishments in the two athletes careers here's one for you.
Jim Brown is in two Hall of Fames, Barry Sanders is in one.


I'm the biggest Moss fan in the world, but he is not the best WR ever, he is by far the most talented wide receiver ever. However, he lacked the work ethic early in his career to truly transcend greatness like Jerry Rice did. Jerry Rice relied on his personality to succeed, he doesn't have the speed, explosiveness, or hands(yes, hands) of Moss, but he worked harder than just about anyone, and look at where he is; arguably the best player in the history of the NFL. Had Moss possessed the attitude and willingness to work of Rice I honestly believe he would be the greatest player in the history of the NFL.


I've made my claim at Barry Sanders who had a dismal offensive line throughout his career with only two probowlers in that time span(I believe.) now it's time to switch over to Moss.
Sure we have heard that Randy Moss had a bad work ethic, but I dont believe it for a second.
No one can continue to be as talented as he is at 31 if they have a bad work ethic.
Ever watched "the Moss Method"?
It shows that he worked hard even in Oakland to continue to be successful.
Sure a certain Oakland coach said he lacked work ethic and was no longer an elite player, but then he goes to the Patriots and plays like an all star yet again.
He got ran out of town here because of some on/off the field incidents.

You've got to realize that Moss has had Cunningham for one year, and Brady for one year.
On the other hand Rice had Gannon, Montana and Young for his entire career, which obviously helped out his stats a little bit.
The team that Rice went on was already a winning team, coming off a stellar year.
The team that Moss went on already had 2 1,000 yard receivers the year before, yet he still forced his way into the starting lineup.


I'm sure Moss wont break many of Rice's records but I can tell you that if he had Brady his whole career he would have easily, I believe.
I might be a homer but that's just how I feel on the subject.

soonerbornNbred
08-14-2008, 05:09 AM
I understand we have gotten way off the original subject....but heres a little tidbit...theres a Freshman Highschooler down here wowing the coaches in practices....they think hes going to be a BIGTIMER someday their sayin...Bigger and even faster than his pops....some kid by the name of Barry Sanders Jr

singersp
08-14-2008, 05:10 AM
"Yfz01" wrote:



I've made my claim at Barry Sanders who had a dismal offensive line throughout his career with only two probowlers in that time span(I believe.) now it's time to switch over to Moss.
Sure we have heard that Randy Moss had a bad work ethic, but I dont believe it for a second.
No one can continue to be as talented as he is at 31 if they have a bad work ethic.
Ever watched "the Moss Method"?
It shows that he worked hard even in Oakland to continue to be successful.
Sure a certain Oakland coach said he lacked work ethic and was no longer an elite player, but then he goes to the Patriots and plays like an all star yet again.
He got ran out of town here because of some on/off the field incidents.

You've got to realize that Moss has had Cunningham for one year, and Brady for one year.
On the other hand Rice had Gannon, Montana and Young for his entire career, which obviously helped out his stats a little bit.
The team that Rice went on was already a winning team, coming off a stellar year.
The team that Moss went on already had 2 1,000 yard receivers the year before, yet he still forced his way into the starting lineup.


I'm sure Moss wont break many of Rice's records but I can tell you that if he had Brady his whole career he would have easily, I believe.
I might be a homer but that's just how I feel on the subject.



Yeah, "I play when I want to" is about as good of a work ethic as you can get.

Prophet
08-14-2008, 08:54 AM
lmao, this thread is awesome.
The male equivalent of old ladies bickering and gossiping.

BTW, I like how it's starting to morph into a Randy Moss thread.

Marshall Faulk is the best RB.
Ever.
That ougt to get some panties in a bunch.

Marrdro
08-14-2008, 08:58 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


lmao, this thread is awesome.
The male equivalent of old ladies bickering and gossiping.

BTW, I like how it's starting to morph into a Randy Moss thread.

Marshall Faulk is the best RB.
Ever.
That ougt to get some panties in a bunch.

LOL.
If I had the first or second pick in a live FF League I would take him over AD.

Zeus
08-14-2008, 09:05 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


for the last time
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BEST RUNNINGBACK
I am talking about the best runner.
who has the best physical skills, who's quickest, fastest and most agile.
I don't know if I can make myself any more clearer.


Yes, I'd moved on from that minor stupidity (best football runner) to the major stupidity (best runner EVER IN ALL OF SPORTS!!!!!!!).

"best physical skills" - outside of times/stats, this is not quantifiable
"quickest" - outside of times/stats, this is not quantifiable
"fastest" - outside of times/stats, this is not quantifiable
"most agile" - outside of times/stats, this is not quantifiable

Silly, silly, silly.

=Z=