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vikingivan
07-28-2008, 08:32 PM
I watched Tavaris Jackson today at camp.
If you cannot complete a 7 yard out with no rush what is going to happen when there are a some crazy D lineman coming in on you.
Jackson stunk at the morning practice today, plain and simple.
Was it just a bad day, or a sign of things to come?


On a positive note, Shiancoe, looked great today catching passes from Bollinger, Frerotte, and Booty.
I dogged him alot in the past, but he looked great in practice today.

Other notables, Ferguson looked good as did Sidney Rice.
Number 82, dont know his name was catching balls, which was a welcome change.

The highlight of the day was Hutch screaming at someone on the defense, and I quote, " Get off the field punk!".

Vikes_King
07-28-2008, 08:36 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


I watched Tavaris Jackson today at camp.
If you cannot complete a 7 yard out with no rush what is going to happen when there are a some crazy D lineman coming in on you.
Jackson stunk at the morning practice today, plain and simple.
Was it just a bad day, or a sign of things to come?


On a positive note, Shiancoe, looked great today catching passes from Bollinger, Frerotte, and Booty.
I dogged him alot in the past, but he looked great in practice today.

Other notables, Ferguson looked good as did Sidney Rice.
Number 82, dont know his name was catching balls, which was a welcome change.

The highlight of the day was Hutch screaming at someone on the defense, and I quote, " Get off the field punk!".




I didn't go to the morning practice, but I did hit up the afternoon practice.
T-Jack looked fine in the afternoon practice, and Shiancoe still looked good.

#82 is Darius Reynaud

hawaiianvike21
07-28-2008, 08:39 PM
i dont like the way that t-jack keeps making those errant throws off his back foot whilel looking like he is taking a jumpshot in basketball. he needs to cut that cr** out now. >:(

NodakPaul
07-28-2008, 08:57 PM
"hawaiianvike21" wrote:


i dont like the way that t-jack keeps making those errant throws off his back foot whilel looking like he is taking a jumpshot in basketball. he needs to cut that cr** out now. >:(


Were you at camp today?
You are the first person I have heard that said that TJack is throwing off from his back foot... Hope it isn't continuing.

All in all I have heard mostly good stuff from camp.
I listened to the morning practice on KFAN, and from what I heard TJack only had a couple of misses, although they said that he was holding the ball too long in the morning.
Afternoon, again from KFAN, sounded better.

Keep in mind that the offense normally takes a little while to get their timing down every training camp.
Even back in the Culpepper and Moss glory days, the defense usually got the better of them for the first week, and then the offense would come into its own.
I wouldn't make too much out of the first day of contact practice.

NodakPaul
07-28-2008, 08:59 PM
BTW, for the people who were there, I hear that AD is working in pass protection situations more.
See any improvement?

vikingivan
07-28-2008, 09:02 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"hawaiianvike21" wrote:


i dont like the way that t-jack keeps making those errant throws off his back foot whilel looking like he is taking a jumpshot in basketball. he needs to cut that cr** out now. >:(


Were you at camp today?
You are the first person I have heard that said that TJack is throwing off from his back foot... Hope it isn't continuing.

All in all I have heard mostly good stuff from camp.
I listened to the morning practice on KFAN, and from what I heard TJack only had a couple of misses, although they said that he was holding the ball too long in the morning.
Afternoon, again from KFAN, sounded better.

Keep in mind that the offense normally takes a little while to get their timing down every training camp.
Even back in the Culpepper and Moss glory days, the defense usually got the better of them for the first week, and then the offense would come into its own.
I wouldn't make too much out of the first day of contact practice.



He looked terrible in the morning practice, and yes he was throwing off his back foot.
He did slip a few times, they had a quite a bit of rain down there last night.

vikingivan
07-28-2008, 09:04 PM
"Vikes_King" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


I watched Tavaris Jackson today at camp.
If you cannot complete a 7 yard out with no rush what is going to happen when there are a some crazy D lineman coming in on you.
Jackson stunk at the morning practice today, plain and simple.
Was it just a bad day, or a sign of things to come?



On a positive note, Shiancoe, looked great today catching passes from Bollinger, Frerotte, and Booty.
I dogged him alot in the past, but he looked great in practice today.

Other notables, Ferguson looked good as did Sidney Rice.

Number 82, dont know his name was catching balls, which was a welcome change.

The highlight of the day was Hutch screaming at someone on the defense, and I quote, " Get off the field punk!".




I didn't go to the morning practice, but I did hit up the afternoon practice.
T-Jack looked fine in the afternoon practice, and Shiancoe still looked good.

#82 is Darius Reynaud


#82 wont make the team, what a shame.
He looked alot better than Williamson.

NodakPaul
07-28-2008, 09:28 PM
Strib is reporting that Berrian caught two long bombs in the afternoon practice, one of them that hit him in stride over Winfield and went for about 60 yards.
I assume it was TJack throwing them since first team offense was together all day.
Can anyone verify?

Vikes_King
07-28-2008, 09:40 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


Strib is reporting that Berrian caught two long bombs in the afternoon practice, one of them that hit him in stride over Winfield and went for about 60 yards.
I assume it was TJack throwing them since first team offense was together all day.
Can anyone verify?


Read my post, Vikes_King's Training Camp Adventures, I updated it from todays afternoon practice.

And yes, the one of the two big bombs i saw was from T-Jack to Berrian, perfectly in stride, i couldn't tell what yard line they started on, but he stopped running when they blew the whistle, since no one was with in 10 yards of him.
In a game that would have been a 60-80 yard TD

hawaiianvike21
07-28-2008, 09:56 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"hawaiianvike21" wrote:


i dont like the way that t-jack keeps making those errant throws off his back foot whilel looking like he is taking a jumpshot in basketball. he needs to cut that cr** out now. >:(


Were you at camp today?
You are the first person I have heard that said that TJack is throwing off from his back foot... Hope it isn't continuing.

All in all I have heard mostly good stuff from camp.
I listened to the morning practice on KFAN, and from what I heard TJack only had a couple of misses, although they said that he was holding the ball too long in the morning.
Afternoon, again from KFAN, sounded better.

Keep in mind that the offense normally takes a little while to get their timing down every training camp.
Even back in the Culpepper and Moss glory days, the defense usually got the better of them for the first week, and then the offense would come into its own.
I wouldn't make too much out of the first day of contact practice.


no i wasnt, but i heard about it and saw one picture of it. forget where.

and its sad to see it since you think the coaches would rip his helmet off everytim he did that since it usually became a turnover. see
last years redskins game.

kevoncox
07-28-2008, 10:25 PM
Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

1) Run the ball
2) Throw the deep bomb.

They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.

Purple Floyd
07-28-2008, 10:31 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

1) Run the ball
2) Throw the deep bomb.

They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.



We threw the deep bomb well last year? How often and what was our comp. % on those passes?

VikingsTw
07-28-2008, 10:34 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

1) Run the ball
2) Throw the deep bomb.

They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.



I think experience alone can fanish the Washington game. I keep seeing you bring this up but I think we should all leave that game in the past and learn from whatever mistakes were made. Funny thing is we came closer to winning that some give credit with all the mistakes. Having Bobby Wade and Furgeson vs Berrian and Rice is huge difference in terms of weapons for the QB.

Saying that we will not get the bomb is laughable but in the event that they want to stack that many guys in the secondry we will torch them in the run game. Berrian will have his share of bombs, he's already doing it in practice.

Anytime the middle is left open we should take advantage of this. Adjustments should be more fluid this season.

cajunvike
07-28-2008, 10:35 PM
COMPLETING the long bomb will open up the middle...and rest assured, TJack will find the open man.
This isn't last season, it's THIS season.
And TJack WILL be better than last year.
All he has to do is cut down on the turnovers and he (and the team) will be much better from that alone.
Don't expect him to be a Pro Bowler...but then the Vikings don't need a Pro Bowler, just a Trent Dilfer circa 2000.
Hopefully with the same end result.

jargomcfargo
07-28-2008, 10:37 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

1) Run the ball
2) Throw the deep bomb.

They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.



Not everyone is as fast as Landry. And not everyone is going to be able to play that cover three on us.
I didn't relly see anyone else use it against us.
We had deep chances with open receivers against the Skins.
Tarvaris was just wildly inaccurate and missed those opportunities.

It took TJ 7 practices to connect on a long pass last year in training camp.
This year he did it in virtually every practice including the first.
Training camp doesn't mean much, but that sounds a bit more promising wouldn't you say?

El Vikingo
07-29-2008, 04:02 AM
Hey Ivan ,don´t you think is a bit early to think Tarvarias is
not ready? It is only training camp...

All this TJ stuff can become totally crazy with a couple or 3 bad performances of him in our first weeks of competition...this is gonna be an interesting season no doubt ,can´t wait to kick off.

Mark_The_Viking
07-29-2008, 04:34 AM
TJack doesn't have the pressure of last season on him this year. He has better receivers, the best RB tandem in the league to bail him out and a year to have improved his decision making. To be honest I'm sick of seeing negative TJack threads especially from Vikings forums.

I know we are all entitled to an opinion and I am exercising that right here, but guys, please, give the man a break. If at the end of this season we are on a losing record and it can be attributed to TJack then by all means as fans we are entitled to show our upset but until the guy has a year of starting under his belt in a team that doesn't have receivers who can't see the ball and miss out on game winning TDs we aren't in that position.

Get behind our team and our QB and support him despite any reservations you might have,

FACT Tavaris Jackson is the starting quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings.

El Vikingo
07-29-2008, 04:39 AM
"Mark_The_Viking" wrote:


TJack doesn't have the pressure of last season on him this year.



Rite on Tj doesn´t
have the pressure of last season ,he got much more ,the team is now a real contender to NFC title ,much mony spent,he is on the hot sit with one more year of experience.....

singersp
07-29-2008, 04:40 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

1) Run the ball
2) Throw the deep bomb.

They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.



Exactly what do you mean by "middle of the field? Are you talking 10-20 yards or 21-30? If you are talking 21-30, I'll disagree because that's what T-Jack does best.

The problem is the coaches don't call enough of those plays or make the necessary adjustments throughout the game. It seems like they almost always come in with a game plan & use it throughout the game whether it's working or not.

I'll also disagree with your assessment that we throw the deep ball well & that teams think that. In fact, they don't & it's one of the reasons why you see the box stacked.

Jackson threw 15 deep balls last year, 6 were caught. That's only 40%. Even if you throw in T-Wills two big drops as gimmies, that's still 53%.

Again, middle of the field, what I think 21-30 yarders are considered, is what he does best. He's 64.3% on those but as I stated earlier, he only threw 56 of them last season.

On passes that are 1-10 yards, he's 60.8% (He threw 120 of them last year)

On passes that are 11-20 yards, he's 54.4% (He threw 103 of them last year)

http://www.nfl.com/players/tarvarisjackson/situationalstats?id=JAC566507

They need to throw more 21-30 yarders. When you are facing a stacked box & you throw those well, you can force the defense to play more honestly, which should open up the run game.

His passer rating for the 21-30 range is 90.8.

El Vikingo
07-29-2008, 04:47 AM
Sorry but a 60,8 % in 1-10 and 54,4 % in 11-20
,it is non acceptable by any means....

singersp
07-29-2008, 04:59 AM
"El" wrote:


Sorry but a 60,8 % in 1-10 and 54,4 % in 11-20
,it is non acceptable by any means....


No it's not. But when you have predominently 8-9 men in that box & tight coverage, it's more understandable as to why it's that way.

Keep the defense honest & backed off with a shitload more of those 21-30 yarders & that number will go up.

Mr-holland
07-29-2008, 05:54 AM
I can't wait to see look out for the first guy to catch for more than a 100 yards in a game since a looong loong time ( 2005 right? )

El Vikingo
07-29-2008, 06:24 AM
"Mr-holland" wrote:


I can't wait to see look out for the first guy to catch for 100 yards


http://www.esmas.com/galeria/fotos/2007/11/200725172241196032924.jpg

El Vikingo
07-29-2008, 06:26 AM
Your waiting time is over

Overlord
07-29-2008, 06:28 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

1) Run the ball
2) Throw the deep bomb.

They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.



Exactly what do you mean by "middle of the field? Are you talking 10-20 yards or 21-30? If you are talking 21-30, I'll disagree because that's what T-Jack does best.

The problem is the coaches don't call enough of those plays or make the necessary adjustments throughout the game. It seems like they almost always come in with a game plan & use it throughout the game whether it's working or not.

I'll also disagree with your assessment that we throw the deep ball well & that teams think that. In fact, they don't & it's one of the reasons why you see the box stacked.

Jackson threw 15 deep balls last year, 6 were caught. That's only 40%. Even if you throw in T-Wills two big drops as gimmies, that's still 53%.

Again, middle of the field, what I think 21-30 yarders are considered, is what he does best. He's 64.3% on those but as I stated earlier, he only threw 56 of them last season.

On passes that are 1-10 yards, he's 60.8% (He threw 120 of them last year)

On passes that are 11-20 yards, he's 54.4% (He threw 103 of them last year)

http://www.nfl.com/players/tarvarisjackson/situationalstats?id=JAC566507

They need to throw more 21-30 yarders. When you are facing a stacked box & you throw those well, you can force the defense to play more honestly, which should open up the run game.

His passer rating for the 21-30 range is 90.8.



I thought that was an interesting stat at first, but I don't believe it is what you actually think it is.
On closer examination, I believe that it is referring to the number of attempts to that point in the game.
I couldn't find anything that tracked the completion percentages at varying distances, which is unfortunate because it would be pretty interesting.

As for strategy for beating teams that load up on the line of scrimmage, the coverage they play will dictate where we need to go.
If they're playing cover one with the corners in tight man coverage, then we need to be able to attack the edges of the field deep.
If they're playing the corners loose, essentially in a cover 3, then we need to get the ball underneath and let the receivers do something in the open field.


Most of our passing plays will be designed so that different routes will be available against different coverages.
At the end of the day, Tarvaris needs to be able to determine what the other team is doing a lot faster than he was able to last year so he can get the ball to the right guy.

And as for Tarvaris' accuracy in general, I think it is pretty good.
His completion percentage should go up with better receivers.
I really like his deep ball, especially when comparing it to Daunte.
All he had to do was throw the ball over the correct shoulder and Moss would be able to come up with it, but Culpepper couldn't get that down until 2004.

singersp
07-29-2008, 06:42 AM
"Overlord" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

1) Run the ball
2) Throw the deep bomb.

They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.



Exactly what do you mean by "middle of the field? Are you talking 10-20 yards or 21-30? If you are talking 21-30, I'll disagree because that's what T-Jack does best.

The problem is the coaches don't call enough of those plays or make the necessary adjustments throughout the game. It seems like they almost always come in with a game plan & use it throughout the game whether it's working or not.

I'll also disagree with your assessment that we throw the deep ball well & that teams think that. In fact, they don't & it's one of the reasons why you see the box stacked.

Jackson threw 15 deep balls last year, 6 were caught. That's only 40%. Even if you throw in T-Wills two big drops as gimmies, that's still 53%.

Again, middle of the field, what I think 21-30 yarders are considered, is what he does best. He's 64.3% on those but as I stated earlier, he only threw 56 of them last season.

On passes that are 1-10 yards, he's 60.8% (He threw 120 of them last year)

On passes that are 11-20 yards, he's 54.4% (He threw 103 of them last year)

http://www.nfl.com/players/tarvarisjackson/situationalstats?id=JAC566507

They need to throw more 21-30 yarders. When you are facing a stacked box & you throw those well, you can force the defense to play more honestly, which should open up the run game.

His passer rating for the 21-30 range is 90.8.



I thought that was an interesting stat at first, but I don't believe it is what you actually think it is.
On closer examination, I believe that it is referring to the number of attempts to that point in the game.
I couldn't find anything that tracked the completion percentages at varying distances, which is unfortunate because it would be pretty interesting.

As for strategy for beating teams that load up on the line of scrimmage, the coverage they play will dictate where we need to go.
If they're playing cover one with the corners in tight man coverage, then we need to be able to attack the edges of the field deep.
If they're playing the corners loose, essentially in a cover 3, then we need to get the ball underneath and let the receivers do something in the open field.


Most of our passing plays will be designed so that different routes will be available against different coverages.
At the end of the day, Tarvaris needs to be able to determine what the other team is doing a lot faster than he was able to last year so he can get the ball to the right guy.

And as for Tarvaris' accuracy in general, I think it is pretty good.
His completion percentage should go up with better receivers.
I really like his deep ball, especially when comparing it to Daunte.
All he had to do was throw the ball over the correct shoulder and Moss would be able to come up with it, but Culpepper couldn't get that down until 2004.


LOL! The percentages of completions at those distances is exactly what I gave you. Check the link again.


Attempts




Att

Comp

Pct
Attempts 1-10 120 73
60.8
Attempts 11-20 103 56
54.4
Attempts 21-30 56 36
64.3
Attempts 31+
15
6
40.0

Overlord
07-29-2008, 06:55 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

1) Run the ball
2) Throw the deep bomb.

They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.



Exactly what do you mean by "middle of the field? Are you talking 10-20 yards or 21-30? If you are talking 21-30, I'll disagree because that's what T-Jack does best.

The problem is the coaches don't call enough of those plays or make the necessary adjustments throughout the game. It seems like they almost always come in with a game plan & use it throughout the game whether it's working or not.

I'll also disagree with your assessment that we throw the deep ball well & that teams think that. In fact, they don't & it's one of the reasons why you see the box stacked.

Jackson threw 15 deep balls last year, 6 were caught. That's only 40%. Even if you throw in T-Wills two big drops as gimmies, that's still 53%.

Again, middle of the field, what I think 21-30 yarders are considered, is what he does best. He's 64.3% on those but as I stated earlier, he only threw 56 of them last season.

On passes that are 1-10 yards, he's 60.8% (He threw 120 of them last year)

On passes that are 11-20 yards, he's 54.4% (He threw 103 of them last year)

http://www.nfl.com/players/tarvarisjackson/situationalstats?id=JAC566507

They need to throw more 21-30 yarders. When you are facing a stacked box & you throw those well, you can force the defense to play more honestly, which should open up the run game.

His passer rating for the 21-30 range is 90.8.



I thought that was an interesting stat at first, but I don't believe it is what you actually think it is.
On closer examination, I believe that it is referring to the number of attempts to that point in the game.
I couldn't find anything that tracked the completion percentages at varying distances, which is unfortunate because it would be pretty interesting.

As for strategy for beating teams that load up on the line of scrimmage, the coverage they play will dictate where we need to go.
If they're playing cover one with the corners in tight man coverage, then we need to be able to attack the edges of the field deep.
If they're playing the corners loose, essentially in a cover 3, then we need to get the ball underneath and let the receivers do something in the open field.


Most of our passing plays will be designed so that different routes will be available against different coverages.
At the end of the day, Tarvaris needs to be able to determine what the other team is doing a lot faster than he was able to last year so he can get the ball to the right guy.

And as for Tarvaris' accuracy in general, I think it is pretty good.
His completion percentage should go up with better receivers.
I really like his deep ball, especially when comparing it to Daunte.
All he had to do was throw the ball over the correct shoulder and Moss would be able to come up with it, but Culpepper couldn't get that down until 2004.


LOL! The percentages of completions at those distances is exactly what I gave you. Check the link again.


Attempts





Att

Comp

Pct
Attempts 1-10 120 73
60.8
Attempts 11-20 103 56
54.4
Attempts 21-30 56 36
64.3
Attempts 31+

15

6
40.0


Six completed passes of 31+ yards for a total of 50 yards?


It's referring to the order of attempts in the game.
That is, the first row is Tarvaris' first 10 attempts in each game.
Notice that he played in 12 games, each with more than 10 attempts.
Hence, 120 attempts in the first row.
He only had three games in which he threw more than 30 passes.
He threw 33 times against Detroit, 41 times against Washington, and 31 times against Denver.
That's the 15 passes on attempts 31+.

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2008, 07:13 AM
if its referring to the order of attempts in each game, than how can someone possible have 15 attempts at 31+ attempts?
It just doesn't make sense.
The stat is pass distance.
He's 6-15 on passes that are 31 yards or more.

I'm not sure where you got the 50 yards from either.
If he had 6 31+ passes, then that is at least 186 yards.

NodakPaul
07-29-2008, 08:16 AM
"hawaiianvike21" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"hawaiianvike21" wrote:


i dont like the way that t-jack keeps making those errant throws off his back foot whilel looking like he is taking a jumpshot in basketball. he needs to cut that cr** out now. >:(


Were you at camp today?
You are the first person I have heard that said that TJack is throwing off from his back foot... Hope it isn't continuing.

All in all I have heard mostly good stuff from camp.
I listened to the morning practice on KFAN, and from what I heard TJack only had a couple of misses, although they said that he was holding the ball too long in the morning.
Afternoon, again from KFAN, sounded better.

Keep in mind that the offense normally takes a little while to get their timing down every training camp.
Even back in the Culpepper and Moss glory days, the defense usually got the better of them for the first week, and then the offense would come into its own.
I wouldn't make too much out of the first day of contact practice.


no i wasnt, but i heard about it and saw one picture of it. forget where.

and its sad to see it since you think the coaches would rip his helmet off everytim he did that since it usually became a turnover. see
last years redskins game.


The back foot pass, or the "jump pass" (which was in the Washington game) actually only happened five or six times out of nearly 300 pass attempts.
That isn't the biggest concern TJack has.
I think ripping his helmet off should be reserved for some of his more impactful problems.

For instance, TJacks mechanics have a tendency to break down when he was under pressure.
This is not just his foot placement, but his arm motion as well.
If you watch TJack when he is comfortable in the pocket, he actually have pretty good form and accuracy.
But on the run... that is a different story.
I would like to see the coaching staff work on TJack making quicker decisions while in the pocket.
Find that open man and get the ball to him so he doesn't have to rely on his feet to make something happen.

V-Unit
07-29-2008, 08:56 AM
The middle of the field does not refer to a distance. It refers to the area "away from the sidelines" as if where we run quick slants and post routes and such.

Anyways, I think the deep bomb will definitely be working this year if TJ's accuracy improves. The defense was not the reason for the lack of passins explosiveness last year. TJ was wildly inaccurate and none of our receivers had the ability to go deep, expect for Rice who developed it later in the year.

This year we have Berrian, whose specialty is as a deep threat. TJ being more accurate is just faith right now but honestly its least of my concerns (coming from someone who is not sold at all on TJ).

Our running game is so effective that it pulls the defense in and wildly opens up the playaction pass. Defenses will not be able to take the deep bomb from us as long as we are running the ball effectively.

In regards to TJ's practices, lets see how he performs in the preseason games. For now I'll downplay both his successes and failures.

Looking at situational stats:
1. Overlord is correct about the stat breakdown singer posted. THOSE ARE NOT DISTANCES. TJ takes a while to get warmed up so attempts 21-30 are his best. He sucks late in a game where he has been asked to make a lot of throws (31+ attempts).

2. TJ is great when we are up by a big margin, aka when we are running the ball. Still that is nice, at least he does not make mistakes that let teams back into games. I only remember the Chicago game as a game we could not hold the lead, and that was Dwight Smith's fault.

3. TJ is awful in the redzone and when we are backed inside our own 20. I can understand the latter because defenses are heavily blitzing to try to get a safety. The red zone performance must improve.

4. Same goes for TJ's two-minute drill. Receivers are to blame to. D knows were passing and shuts us down. Still that must improve.

5. TJ is miserable when the game is tied. Miserable. 47.3% completion, 1 TD, 5 INTs. That is unclutch as you can be. It's a tie game! You've got to play better. Get the lead!

6. TJ did not throw a single INT on grass last year.

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2008, 09:01 AM
"V" wrote:


The middle of the field does not refer to a distance. It refers to the area "away from the sidelines" as if where we run quick slants and post routes and such.

Anyways, I think the deep bomb will definitely be working this year if TJ's accuracy improves. The defense was not the reason for the lack of passins explosiveness last year. TJ was wildly inaccurate and none of our receivers had the ability to go deep, expect for Rice who developed it later in the year.

This year we have Berrian, whose specialty is as a deep threat. TJ being more accurate is just faith right now but honestly its least of my concerns (coming from someone who is not sold at all on TJ).

Our running game is so effective that it pulls the defense in and wildly opens up the playaction pass. Defenses will not be able to take the deep bomb from us as long as we are running the ball effectively.

In regards to TJ's practices, lets see how he performs in the preseason games. For now I'll downplay both his successes and failures.

Looking at situational stats:
1. Overlord is correct about the stat breakdown singer posted. THOSE ARE NOT DISTANCES. TJ takes a while to get warmed up so attempts 21-30 are his best. He sucks late in a game where he has been asked to make a lot of throws (31+ attempts).




how can it not be distances?
It clearly states he is 6-15 when throwing 31+
How can he be 6completions for 15 attempts when he throws more than 31 attempts?
It doesn't make sense at all.
wouldn't he need at least 31 attempts instead of just 15?
and its not counting games where he attempted 31 passes, since there's only been a couple of games he's passed that much.

V-Unit
07-29-2008, 09:14 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The middle of the field does not refer to a distance. It refers to the area "away from the sidelines" as if where we run quick slants and post routes and such.

Anyways, I think the deep bomb will definitely be working this year if TJ's accuracy improves. The defense was not the reason for the lack of passins explosiveness last year. TJ was wildly inaccurate and none of our receivers had the ability to go deep, expect for Rice who developed it later in the year.

This year we have Berrian, whose specialty is as a deep threat. TJ being more accurate is just faith right now but honestly its least of my concerns (coming from someone who is not sold at all on TJ).

Our running game is so effective that it pulls the defense in and wildly opens up the playaction pass. Defenses will not be able to take the deep bomb from us as long as we are running the ball effectively.

In regards to TJ's practices, lets see how he performs in the preseason games. For now I'll downplay both his successes and failures.

Looking at situational stats:
1. Overlord is correct about the stat breakdown singer posted. THOSE ARE NOT DISTANCES. TJ takes a while to get warmed up so attempts 21-30 are his best. He sucks late in a game where he has been asked to make a lot of throws (31+ attempts).




how can it not be distances?
It clearly states he is 6-15 when throwing 31+
How can he be 6completions for 15 attempts when he throws more than 31 attempts?
It doesn't make sense at all.
wouldn't he need at least 31 attempts instead of just 15?

and its not counting games where he attempted 31 passes, since there's only been a couple of games he's passed that much.


He is not 6-15 when throwing 31+ attempts (obviously). He is 6-15 on attempts where he has already thrown 30 passes in the game.

@DET: 33 Att - 3 count
WAS: 41 Att - 11 count
DEN: 31 Att - 1 counts

Total: 15 Attempts.

Prophet
07-29-2008, 10:08 AM
"vikingivan" wrote:


I watched Tavaris Jackson today at camp.
If you cannot complete a 7 yard out with no rush what is going to happen when there are a some crazy D lineman coming in on you.
....

He forgot what he was doing and posed for Captain J's shot.

cajunvike
07-29-2008, 10:32 AM
"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The middle of the field does not refer to a distance. It refers to the area "away from the sidelines" as if where we run quick slants and post routes and such.

Anyways, I think the deep bomb will definitely be working this year if TJ's accuracy improves. The defense was not the reason for the lack of passins explosiveness last year. TJ was wildly inaccurate and none of our receivers had the ability to go deep, expect for Rice who developed it later in the year.

This year we have Berrian, whose specialty is as a deep threat. TJ being more accurate is just faith right now but honestly its least of my concerns (coming from someone who is not sold at all on TJ).

Our running game is so effective that it pulls the defense in and wildly opens up the playaction pass. Defenses will not be able to take the deep bomb from us as long as we are running the ball effectively.

In regards to TJ's practices, lets see how he performs in the preseason games. For now I'll downplay both his successes and failures.

Looking at situational stats:
1. Overlord is correct about the stat breakdown singer posted. THOSE ARE NOT DISTANCES. TJ takes a while to get warmed up so attempts 21-30 are his best. He sucks late in a game where he has been asked to make a lot of throws (31+ attempts).




how can it not be distances?
It clearly states he is 6-15 when throwing 31+
How can he be 6completions for 15 attempts when he throws more than 31 attempts?
It doesn't make sense at all.
wouldn't he need at least 31 attempts instead of just 15?

and its not counting games where he attempted 31 passes, since there's only been a couple of games he's passed that much.


He is not 6-15 when throwing 31+ attempts (obviously). He is 6-15 on attempts where he has already thrown 30 passes in the game.

@DET: 33 Att - 3 count
WAS: 41 Att - 11 count
DEN: 31 Att - 1 counts

Total: 15 Attempts.



None of this numbers manipulation takes in to account factors like: the situations in which he was throwing (obvious passing downs vs. otherwise), yards needed to get the first down, which WRs were in the game, etc.
Basically a waste of time.

Besides, TJack will have another offseason under his belt and it is common knowledge that the biggest improvement for a QB is between the first and second seasons STARTING.
Be prepared to see a much improved TJack over last season.

COJOMAY
07-29-2008, 10:40 AM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


The middle of the field does not refer to a distance. It refers to the area "away from the sidelines" as if where we run quick slants and post routes and such.

Anyways, I think the deep bomb will definitely be working this year if TJ's accuracy improves. The defense was not the reason for the lack of passins explosiveness last year. TJ was wildly inaccurate and none of our receivers had the ability to go deep, expect for Rice who developed it later in the year.

This year we have Berrian, whose specialty is as a deep threat. TJ being more accurate is just faith right now but honestly its least of my concerns (coming from someone who is not sold at all on TJ).

Our running game is so effective that it pulls the defense in and wildly opens up the playaction pass. Defenses will not be able to take the deep bomb from us as long as we are running the ball effectively.

In regards to TJ's practices, lets see how he performs in the preseason games. For now I'll downplay both his successes and failures.

Looking at situational stats:
1. Overlord is correct about the stat breakdown singer posted. THOSE ARE NOT DISTANCES. TJ takes a while to get warmed up so attempts 21-30 are his best. He sucks late in a game where he has been asked to make a lot of throws (31+ attempts).




how can it not be distances?
It clearly states he is 6-15 when throwing 31+
How can he be 6completions for 15 attempts when he throws more than 31 attempts?
It doesn't make sense at all.
wouldn't he need at least 31 attempts instead of just 15?

and its not counting games where he attempted 31 passes, since there's only been a couple of games he's passed that much.


He is not 6-15 when throwing 31+ attempts (obviously). He is 6-15 on attempts where he has already thrown 30 passes in the game.

@DET: 33 Att - 3 count
WAS: 41 Att - 11 count
DEN: 31 Att - 1 counts

Total: 15 Attempts.



None of this numbers manipulation takes in to account factors like: the situations in which he was throwing (obvious passing downs vs. otherwise), yards needed to get the first down, which WRs were in the game, etc.

Basically a waste of time.

Besides, TJack will have another offseason under his belt and it is common knowledge that the biggest improvement for a QB is between the first and second seasons STARTING.
Be prepared to see a much improved TJack over last season.


I hope you're right Cajun but I'll believe it when I see it for myself in game situations.

vikingivan
07-29-2008, 10:53 AM
"El" wrote:


Hey Ivan ,don´t you think is a bit early to think Tarvarias is
not ready? It is only training camp...

All this TJ stuff can become totally crazy with a couple or 3 bad performances of him in our first weeks of competition...this is gonna be an interesting season no doubt ,can´t wait to kick off.


It was the first practice in full pads.
The field was slick.
It could have been just a bad practice for him.
It certainly seems that he did better in the afternoon practice.
The quarterback position concerns me.
I believe the Vikings are set at every position except qb.
I hope TJack plays well, and the Vikings win 12 games and secure homefield advantage.
But, I wouldn't bet on it.
The Vikings should be able to win 11 or 12 games with the talent they have.
However, if they don't get improved quarterback play they will win only 7 or 8 games.
This team has far too much talent to only win 7 or 8 games.

mountainviking
07-29-2008, 01:46 PM
Not what we want to hear!
But, it does still sound like there has been progress.
Long completes every practice and some into good coverage against our defense isn't all bad!!
Its probably a good thing our O does get to go against our D in practice, cuz like the gambler said, we're going to face some pretty tough Ds this year!

But, you can't put all the problems on the QB.
On that Smoot INT, there were several skins about to crush TJack when he tossed that ridiculous thing up, some blame goes to the OL and blocking.
ALL of our WRs dropped passes last year and many of them could have been game changing.
BUT as the year wore on the dropsies dropped as our WRs and new TE got more in sync with the QB and more comfortable with the system in general (and Twill played less.)
;)

This year, we have guys who have been in the system together for over a year, worked on their timing and are all around more comfortable with what they need to do on any given play.
I'm talking about the entire offense here...OL and back!
Even without the WR upgrade, I was expecting huge improvement just given time and experience for all our youngsters!!

But, back to the problem at hand, I think Cox is on to something!
With 8 or 9 guys playing the the zone blitz all the time, there will usually be an unblocked rusher racing toward our QB...its not going to give our WRs much time to get downfield.
Those 5 to 10 or 15 yard completions are going to be very important to our success this season as is the YAC we can muster after them!!

tastywaves
07-29-2008, 02:18 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:


Not what we want to hear!
But, it does still sound like there has been progress.
Long completes every practice and some into good coverage against our defense isn't all bad!!
Its probably a good thing our O does get to go against our D in practice, cuz like the gambler said, we're going to face some pretty tough Ds this year!

But, you can't put all the problems on the QB.
On that Smoot INT, there were several skins about to crush TJack when he tossed that ridiculous thing up, some blame goes to the OL and blocking.
ALL of our WRs dropped passes last year and many of them could have been game changing.
BUT as the year wore on the dropsies dropped as our WRs and new TE got more in sync with the QB and more comfortable with the system in general (and Twill played less.)

;)

This year, we have guys who have been in the system together for over a year, worked on their timing and are all around more comfortable with what they need to do on any given play.
I'm talking about the entire offense here...OL and back!
Even without the WR upgrade, I was expecting huge improvement just given time and experience for all our youngsters!!

But, back to the problem at hand, I think Cox is on to something!
With 8 or 9 guys playing the the zone blitz all the time, there will usually be an unblocked rusher racing toward our QB...its not going to give our WRs much time to get downfield.
Those 5 to 10 or 15 yard completions are going to be very important to our success this season as is the YAC we can muster after them!!


Agreed, don't expect a lot of long bombs in when the defense has a stacked box.

8-9 guys in the box not only helps stop the run, it puts pressure on the QB to throw the ball early.
However, it does put receivers in 1-1 situations and/or space.
TJ needs to recognize this and react to it quickly providing the receivers do their job in getting open.
If the receivers fail to get open in these situations, we have real issues.
With single coverage, we need to be able to count on Berrian and Rice to beat their guy.
It will help if they are on the same page as TJ.
Wade will always be a good option in slipping into the LB zone on 8-9 fronts.
If these guys slip a tackle, boom, its off to the races.
We show we can do this a few times in a game and we start gaining some respect from the defense.

the stats based on reps in the game is interesting and don't know that I have seen it before.
The percentages definitely will be effected by game situation as Cajun points out.
But, it does show that he starts out fairly accurate in his first 10 throws, could go back to the point that the vikings seem to come out pretty well in their first series or two when they've had a chance to use a scripted set of plays.

PackSux!
07-29-2008, 05:20 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


"El" wrote:


Hey Ivan ,don´t you think is a bit early to think Tarvarias is
not ready? It is only training camp...

All this TJ stuff can become totally crazy with a couple or 3 bad performances of him in our first weeks of competition...this is gonna be an interesting season no doubt ,can´t wait to kick off.


It was the first practice in full pads.
The field was slick.
It could have been just a bad practice for him.
It certainly seems that he did better in the afternoon practice.
The quarterback position concerns me.
I believe the Vikings are set at every position except qb.
I hope TJack plays well, and the Vikings win 12 games and secure homefield advantage.
But, I wouldn't bet on it.
The Vikings should be able to win 11 or 12 games with the talent they have.
However, if they don't get improved quarterback play they will win only 7 or 8 games.
This team has far too much talent to only win 7 or 8 games.


Please dont tell me that Brett Favre would be your solution.

singersp
07-29-2008, 08:35 PM
"V" wrote:


Looking at situational stats:

1. Overlord is correct about the stat breakdown singer posted. THOSE ARE NOT DISTANCES. TJ takes a while to get warmed up so attempts 21-30 are his best. He sucks late in a game where he has been asked to make a lot of throws (31+ attempts).

2. TJ is great when we are up by a big margin, aka when we are running the ball. Still that is nice, at least he does not make mistakes that let teams back into games. I only remember the Chicago game as a game we could not hold the lead, and that was Dwight Smith's fault.

3. TJ is awful in the redzone and when we are backed inside our own 20. I can understand the latter because defenses are heavily blitzing to try to get a safety. The red zone performance must improve.

4. Same goes for TJ's two-minute drill. Receivers are to blame to. D knows were passing and shuts us down. Still that must improve.

5. TJ is miserable when the game is tied. Miserable. 47.3% completion, 1 TD, 5 INTs. That is unclutch as you can be. It's a tie game! You've got to play better. Get the lead!

6. TJ did not throw a single INT on grass last year.


Point Situation
Pct

Ahead










100.0
Ahead by 1-8 Points

100.0
Behind










62.5
Behind by 1-8 Points 71.4
Behind by 9-16 Points
53.8
Tied











77.8

Let's sign him!

V-Unit
07-30-2008, 12:13 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Looking at situational stats:

1. Overlord is correct about the stat breakdown singer posted. THOSE ARE NOT DISTANCES. TJ takes a while to get warmed up so attempts 21-30 are his best. He sucks late in a game where he has been asked to make a lot of throws (31+ attempts).

2. TJ is great when we are up by a big margin, aka when we are running the ball. Still that is nice, at least he does not make mistakes that let teams back into games. I only remember the Chicago game as a game we could not hold the lead, and that was Dwight Smith's fault.

3. TJ is awful in the redzone and when we are backed inside our own 20. I can understand the latter because defenses are heavily blitzing to try to get a safety. The red zone performance must improve.

4. Same goes for TJ's two-minute drill. Receivers are to blame to. D knows were passing and shuts us down. Still that must improve.

5. TJ is miserable when the game is tied. Miserable. 47.3% completion, 1 TD, 5 INTs. That is unclutch as you can be. It's a tie game! You've got to play better. Get the lead!

6. TJ did not throw a single INT on grass last year.


Point Situation
Pct

Ahead










100.0
Ahead by 1-8 Points

100.0
Behind











62.5
Behind by 1-8 Points 71.4
Behind by 9-16 Points
53.8
Tied












77.8

Let's sign him!



::)
I wasn't arguing for or against TJ, just drawing a conclusion from those stats that you posted.

Marrdro
07-30-2008, 12:25 PM
What a interesting thread all centered around an observation from Training Camp.

Man I love this place.
;D
;D
;D

kevoncox
07-30-2008, 08:41 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


What a interesting thread all centered around an observation from Training Camp.

Man I love this place.

;D
;D
;D


U'll love it more when Favre is a Viking.
;D

BloodyHorns82
07-30-2008, 08:52 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


What a interesting thread all centered around an observation from Training Camp.

Man I love this place.

;D
;D
;D


Exactly 1 observation from 1 training camp practice.
;D

erik5032
07-30-2008, 09:03 PM
IF there are no interceptions what so ever then there would be Threads about how bad our Defensive backs are doing. If JAckson is throwing 2 interceptions during the preseason games then I will get worried, but just in Training Camp I see it as our DB's doing good.