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baumy300
07-15-2008, 12:47 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3486089&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d3486089

Formo
07-15-2008, 12:52 AM
Sweet.
Right where they belong.

Purple_Jesus
07-15-2008, 01:56 AM
I don't have Insider, who are the top 10 Runningbacks?

digital420
07-15-2008, 02:39 AM
each article that comes out and describes out D line makes me want to start the season NOW!!!


but.. to give my 2 cents again..

Bchill said in the begining of his HC tenure that "It's all won in the trenches"
so far he has lived up to that.

by building probably the best Dline and one of the best Olines he's sticking to those guns and really showing that he know's what he wants and how he wants to get there.

now lets see the rest of the team mold into that vision and become the best at it's place.. (kinda like our RB combo is!!!)

DiGiTaL

singersp
07-15-2008, 04:00 AM
"aceclown" wrote:


For those without Insider, here are the top 10.


Reading the Insider is a paid subscription privilege for paying members only. Posting that much info here is a violation of copyright & Intellectual Property laws rules as is posting entire articles here. Plus it's against PP.O rules, especially without a link.

To avoid another lawsuit that Webby would have to endure, it'd be best to edit those two posts.

Vikes_King
07-15-2008, 05:49 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"aceclown" wrote:


For those without Insider, here are the top 10.


Reading the Insider is a paid subscription privilege for paying members only. Posting that much info here is a violation of copyright & Intellectual Property laws rules as is posting entire articles here. Plus it's against PP.O rules, especially without a link.

To avoid another lawsuit that Webby would have to endure, it'd be best to edit those two posts.


Yea, thats what i was about to say.. i'm sure its fine if you just list who they ranked, but not those descriptions.
I appreciate it since i'm not a subscriber lol, but they frown upon it

ultravikingfan
07-15-2008, 09:21 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"aceclown" wrote:


For those without Insider, here are the top 10.


Reading the Insider is a paid subscription privilege for paying members only. Posting that much info here is a violation of copyright & Intellectual Property laws rules as is posting entire articles here. Plus it's against PP.O rules, especially without a link.

To avoid another lawsuit that Webby would have to endure, it'd be best to edit those two posts.


Fixed

Purple Floyd
07-15-2008, 01:11 PM
They will be laying the smack down and bitch slappin opponents all season long.

PurplePride80
07-15-2008, 01:17 PM
Nice to see the Vikings getting some respect for a change, but I want to see the rest of the list.

They only show 2 of the 32 teams.
>:(

ItalianStallion
07-15-2008, 01:19 PM
I'm pretty sure we're the only team with 3 pro bowlers on its defensive line.
It's an obvious choice.

Zeus
07-15-2008, 02:06 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


I'm pretty sure we're the only team with 3 pro bowlers on its defensive line.
It's an obvious choice.


No shit.

What's next ESPN - you rank the Patriots passing attack as the best in the NFL?

"ESPN says Water is Wet!"

=Z=

midgensa
07-15-2008, 02:10 PM
Yeah ... this one is a no-brainer.

jmcdon00
07-15-2008, 02:45 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


I'm pretty sure we're the only team with 3 pro bowlers on its defensive line.
It's an obvious choice.


No shit.

What's next ESPN - you rank the Patriots passing attack as the best in the NFL?

"ESPN says Water is Wet!"

=Z=

That's why it is a subscription service, you have to pay for that kind of insight. ::)

Mr all i do is catch tds
07-16-2008, 10:31 AM
Really the thing that it doesn’t mention, in great detail, is how dangerous those three guys make Edwards and our LB core.
Our LB’s did a decent job last year when they blitzed the problem was we had to blitz them often to put pressure on the QB.
With Allen, and the Williams Towers devastating OL’s
the LB’s will have a hayday on receivers, rb’s and the occasional QB.
When we do blitz Greenway or someone they should be able to get to the QB quickly with the pressure coming from the rest of the line.
And Edwards who is an average DE with decent speed should have plenty of looks at the QB as well.
I mean some people try to downgrade what that move did for our defense as a whole.
But honestly it was a huge move and it made the defense all around exponentially better.

jmcdon00
07-16-2008, 11:13 AM
"Mr" wrote:


Really the thing that it doesn’t mention, in great detail, is how dangerous those three guys make Edwards and our LB core.
Our LB’s did a decent job last year when they blitzed the problem was we had to blitz them often to put pressure on the QB.
With Allen, and the Williams Towers devastating OL’s
the LB’s will have a hayday on receivers, rb’s and the occasional QB.
When we do blitz Greenway or someone they should be able to get to the QB quickly with the pressure coming from the rest of the line.
And Edwards who is an average DE with decent speed should have plenty of looks at the QB as well.
I mean some people try to downgrade what that move did for our defense as a whole.
But honestly it was a huge move and it made the defense all around exponentially better.

On paper, we still haven't seen anything. Childress loves to stop the run, so he might not let allen run free like he did in KC, forcing Allen to stay in his lane and making it harder to get pressure on the QB. But yeah they should be awesome.

Mr all i do is catch tds
07-16-2008, 01:18 PM
That is really my only gripe with Childress.
The best coaches push their game plan even when its not working at the moment because they know that eventually it will click.
But the best coaches also can look at how a game is going and change what needs to be changed to win.


Childress needs to learn to utilize his talents and his playbook more effectively.
He also needs to know when to throw a curve versus staying with the fast ball.(pardon the baseball lingo, I hate that I just used it)

ItalianStallion
07-16-2008, 01:50 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


Really the thing that it doesn’t mention, in great detail, is how dangerous those three guys make Edwards and our LB core.
Our LB’s did a decent job last year when they blitzed the problem was we had to blitz them often to put pressure on the QB.
With Allen, and the Williams Towers devastating OL’s
the LB’s will have a hayday on receivers, rb’s and the occasional QB.
When we do blitz Greenway or someone they should be able to get to the QB quickly with the pressure coming from the rest of the line.
And Edwards who is an average DE with decent speed should have plenty of looks at the QB as well.
I mean some people try to downgrade what that move did for our defense as a whole.
But honestly it was a huge move and it made the defense all around exponentially better.

On paper, we still haven't seen anything. Childress loves to stop the run, so he might not let allen run free like he did in KC, forcing Allen to stay in his lane and making it harder to get pressure on the QB. But yeah they should be awesome.


First of all, since when in Childress our defensive coordinator?
Secondly, what make you think he "ran free" in KC?
Thirdly, just because you stayin your gap doesn't not mean you cannot rush the passer...

kevoncox
07-16-2008, 02:21 PM
I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..

C Mac D
07-16-2008, 02:26 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?

erik5032
07-16-2008, 02:53 PM
"C" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?


Facts in itself prove we have the best dline... how many seasons do u think it will take to become #1 run offense? i think after this year we will have the #1 run offense.

C Mac D
07-16-2008, 02:57 PM
"erik5032" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?


Facts in itself prove we have the best dline... how many seasons do u think it will take to become #1? i think after this year we will have the #1 run offense.


We had the #1 run offense last year, and we've had the #1 Run Defense the past two years...

Why would you put the Patriots or Chargers over a D-line that has been #1 in stopping the run the past two seasons... and got the best available FA in Jared Allen to beef up the line... How could ANY D-line be better than that?

Honestly, I'd love to hear your reasoning, kevoncox.

JellyBean2144
07-16-2008, 02:59 PM
ABout time we got some props for our team, especially the defensive line. Our LB/DB core aint nothing to be shy about either.

jmcdon00
07-16-2008, 03:06 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


Really the thing that it doesn’t mention, in great detail, is how dangerous those three guys make Edwards and our LB core.
Our LB’s did a decent job last year when they blitzed the problem was we had to blitz them often to put pressure on the QB.
With Allen, and the Williams Towers devastating OL’s
the LB’s will have a hayday on receivers, rb’s and the occasional QB.
When we do blitz Greenway or someone they should be able to get to the QB quickly with the pressure coming from the rest of the line.
And Edwards who is an average DE with decent speed should have plenty of looks at the QB as well.
I mean some people try to downgrade what that move did for our defense as a whole.
But honestly it was a huge move and it made the defense all around exponentially better.

On paper, we still haven't seen anything. Childress loves to stop the run, so he might not let allen run free like he did in KC, forcing Allen to stay in his lane and making it harder to get pressure on the QB. But yeah they should be awesome.


First of all, since when in Childress our defensive coordinator?
Secondly, what make you think he "ran free" in KC?
Thirdly, just because you stayin your gap doesn't not mean you cannot rush the passer...

Good points.
1.Generally when I say Childress I mean coaching staff, don't get all Marrdro on me.
2.The 15 1/2 sacks tells me that he was rushing the QB a lot, but from what I hear he played good run D too, so yeah that may not have been the best choice of words. What I meant was that the Vikings may not use him the same way KC did.
3.True, just saying sometimes when a player is moved into a new defense they are asked to different things. I don't think it is an accident that this team is so good at the run. A lot of that comes from a coaching philosophy of forcing the other team to beat you with the pass.
As Denny Green would say "If you want to crown em then crown their asses".

kevoncox
07-16-2008, 03:17 PM
"C" wrote:


"erik5032" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?


Facts in itself prove we have the best dline... how many seasons do u think it will take to become #1? i think after this year we will have the #1 run offense.


We had the #1 run offense last year, and we've had the #1 Run Defense the past two years...

Why would you put the Patriots or Chargers over a D-line that has been #1 in stopping the run the past two seasons... and got the best available FA in Jared Allen to beef up the line... How could ANY D-line be better than that?

Honestly, I'd love to hear your reasoning, kevoncox.


My reasons for placing the Chargers and Pats ahead of us.

1) Their 3 players are as good as our ALL PRO trio. However, we have a 4th that isn't as good (yet?)
2) Our line has yet to play a down together. Their own has. Kevin and Pat dissappear sometimes. As much as I love them, I can say that it rare that they are both playing insipired football at all times. When they are we are unstoppable.
3) Just the rosters.
Chargers - All three of these guys are amazing. They do their jobs extremely well. They stop the run and enamble the LB Corps to flock to the ball. The best 3-4 group in all of football.
Igor Olshansky A
Jamal Williams A+
Luis Castillo A
Overal = 96.6

Pats - Injuries are the real reasons this team isn't as high as the Chargers in my book. Seymorcan't stay healthy. How else do you think thier old arse Lbs make so many plays? Instinct? LOL.
Warren - Underrated but as good as Castillio and Co from the Chargers. A-
Wilfolk - The most dominanting force at Dl in the league. He simply destroys run schemes. A+
Seymour - Amazing DLineman. Might be the best in the league. However, he is always hurt. A
Overall = 95

Vikes - They are at a disadvantage in my book because their unit is 4 players and to me you have to take the average of the group.

Allen - A+
Kevin - A
Pat - A
Edwards - B+
overall = 94.5

It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.

V-Unit
07-16-2008, 03:27 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"erik5032" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?


Facts in itself prove we have the best dline... how many seasons do u think it will take to become #1? i think after this year we will have the #1 run offense.


We had the #1 run offense last year, and we've had the #1 Run Defense the past two years...

Why would you put the Patriots or Chargers over a D-line that has been #1 in stopping the run the past two seasons... and got the best available FA in Jared Allen to beef up the line... How could ANY D-line be better than that?

Honestly, I'd love to hear your reasoning, kevoncox.


My reasons for placing the Chargers and Pats ahead of us.

1) Their 3 players are as good as our ALL PRO trio. However, we have a 4th that isn't as good (yet?)
2) Our line has yet to play a down together. Their own has. Kevin and Pat dissappear sometimes. As much as I love them, I can say that it rare that they are both playing insipired football at all times. When they are we are unstoppable.
3) Just the rosters.
Chargers - All three of these guys are amazing. They do their jobs extremely well. They stop the run and enamble the LB Corps to flock to the ball. The best 3-4 group in all of football.
Igor Olshansky A
Jamal Williams A+
Luis Castillo A
Overal = 96.6

Pats - Injuries are the real reasons this team isn't as high as the Chargers in my book. Seymorcan't stay healthy. How else do you think thier old arse Lbs make so many plays? Instinct? LOL.
Warren - Underrated but as good as Castillio and Co from the Chargers. A-
Wilfolk - The most dominanting force at Dl in the league. He simply destroys run schemes. A+
Seymour - Amazing DLineman. Might be the best in the league. However, he is always hurt. A
Overall = 95

Vikes - They are at a disadvantage in my book because their unit is 4 players and to me you have to take the average of the group.

Allen - A+
Kevin - A
Pat - A
Edwards - B+
overall = 94.5

It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.



Bad reasoning IMO. The biggest priority for a DL in the 3-4 is to suck up defenders. Both the Pats and Chargers have stellar LBs as well. Discrediting us because we run a 4-3 is also a bit ridiculous. When it comes to making big plays, our DL is the best. They have a major positive impact and make plays on their own.

Anways, we are debating 2.1 points total, so I do see where you're coming from. I just don't agree.

kevoncox
07-16-2008, 03:40 PM
"V" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"erik5032" wrote:


"C" wrote:




I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?


Facts in itself prove we have the best dline... how many seasons do u think it will take to become #1? i think after this year we will have the #1 run offense.


We had the #1 run offense last year, and we've had the #1 Run Defense the past two years...

Why would you put the Patriots or Chargers over a D-line that has been #1 in stopping the run the past two seasons... and got the best available FA in Jared Allen to beef up the line... How could ANY D-line be better than that?

Honestly, I'd love to hear your reasoning, kevoncox.


My reasons for placing the Chargers and Pats ahead of us.

1) Their 3 players are as good as our ALL PRO trio. However, we have a 4th that isn't as good (yet?)
2) Our line has yet to play a down together. Their own has. Kevin and Pat dissappear sometimes. As much as I love them, I can say that it rare that they are both playing insipired football at all times. When they are we are unstoppable.
3) Just the rosters.
Chargers - All three of these guys are amazing. They do their jobs extremely well. They stop the run and enamble the LB Corps to flock to the ball. The best 3-4 group in all of football.
Igor Olshansky A
Jamal Williams A+
Luis Castillo A
Overal = 96.6

Pats - Injuries are the real reasons this team isn't as high as the Chargers in my book. Seymorcan't stay healthy. How else do you think thier old arse Lbs make so many plays? Instinct? LOL.
Warren - Underrated but as good as Castillio and Co from the Chargers. A-
Wilfolk - The most dominanting force at Dl in the league. He simply destroys run schemes. A+
Seymour - Amazing DLineman. Might be the best in the league. However, he is always hurt. A
Overall = 95

Vikes - They are at a disadvantage in my book because their unit is 4 players and to me you have to take the average of the group.

Allen - A+
Kevin - A
Pat - A
Edwards - B+
overall = 94.5

It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.



Bad reasoning IMO. The biggest priority for a DL in the 3-4 is to suck up defenders. Both the Pats and Chargers have stellar LBs as well. Discrediting us because we run a 4-3 is also a bit ridiculous. When it comes to making big plays, our DL is the best. They have a major positive impact and make plays on their own.

Anways, we are debating 2.1 points total, so I do see where you're coming from. I just don't agree.


I think the 2 defenses i listed do that extremely well and still make plays all over the field.
I'm not discrediting our Dline, I simiply think that these the Chargs, and Pats do not have an obvious weaklink on the DLine like we do in Edwards(Not that it hink he is that bad of a player. I think he has a couple Pro Bowls in him).

C Mac D
07-16-2008, 03:50 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I think the 2 defenses i listed do that extremely well and still make plays all over the field.
I'm not discrediting our Dline, I simiply think that these the Chargs, and Pats do not have an obvious weaklink on the DLine like we do in Edwards(Not that it hink he is that bad of a player. I think he has a couple Pro Bowls in him).


Your analysis is leaving me scratching my head...

The Pats had were 10th in stopping the run in 2007 and 5th in 2006....

The Chargers were 16th in stopping the run in 2007 and 7th in 2006....


The Vikings were 1st in stopping the run in 2007 and 1st in 2006....

And we got Jared Allen.

I just can't agree with you at all on this point. The Chargers and Patriots haven't improved their D-lines that much, while we took the best D-line in football and made it better.

NodakPaul
07-16-2008, 03:51 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"erik5032" wrote:






I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?


Facts in itself prove we have the best dline... how many seasons do u think it will take to become #1? i think after this year we will have the #1 run offense.


We had the #1 run offense last year, and we've had the #1 Run Defense the past two years...

Why would you put the Patriots or Chargers over a D-line that has been #1 in stopping the run the past two seasons... and got the best available FA in Jared Allen to beef up the line... How could ANY D-line be better than that?

Honestly, I'd love to hear your reasoning, kevoncox.


My reasons for placing the Chargers and Pats ahead of us.

1) Their 3 players are as good as our ALL PRO trio. However, we have a 4th that isn't as good (yet?)
2) Our line has yet to play a down together. Their own has. Kevin and Pat dissappear sometimes. As much as I love them, I can say that it rare that they are both playing insipired football at all times. When they are we are unstoppable.
3) Just the rosters.
Chargers - All three of these guys are amazing. They do their jobs extremely well. They stop the run and enamble the LB Corps to flock to the ball. The best 3-4 group in all of football.
Igor Olshansky A
Jamal Williams A+
Luis Castillo A
Overal = 96.6

Pats - Injuries are the real reasons this team isn't as high as the Chargers in my book. Seymorcan't stay healthy. How else do you think thier old arse Lbs make so many plays? Instinct? LOL.
Warren - Underrated but as good as Castillio and Co from the Chargers. A-
Wilfolk - The most dominanting force at Dl in the league. He simply destroys run schemes. A+
Seymour - Amazing DLineman. Might be the best in the league. However, he is always hurt. A
Overall = 95

Vikes - They are at a disadvantage in my book because their unit is 4 players and to me you have to take the average of the group.

Allen - A+
Kevin - A
Pat - A
Edwards - B+
overall = 94.5

It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.



Bad reasoning IMO. The biggest priority for a DL in the 3-4 is to suck up defenders. Both the Pats and Chargers have stellar LBs as well. Discrediting us because we run a 4-3 is also a bit ridiculous. When it comes to making big plays, our DL is the best. They have a major positive impact and make plays on their own.

Anways, we are debating 2.1 points total, so I do see where you're coming from. I just don't agree.


I think the 2 defenses i listed do that extremely well and still make plays all over the field.
I'm not discrediting our Dline, I simiply think that these the Chargs, and Pats do not have an obvious weaklink on the DLine like we do in Edwards(Not that it hink he is that bad of a player. I think he has a couple Pro Bowls in him).



No way.
So you are saying that our DL would be better with just JA, Pat, and Kevin?
How does the addition of Edwards make them worse?

I don't see an obvious weak link anywhere on our DL.

kevoncox
07-16-2008, 04:09 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"C" wrote:








I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?


Facts in itself prove we have the best dline... how many seasons do u think it will take to become #1? i think after this year we will have the #1 run offense.


We had the #1 run offense last year, and we've had the #1 Run Defense the past two years...

Why would you put the Patriots or Chargers over a D-line that has been #1 in stopping the run the past two seasons... and got the best available FA in Jared Allen to beef up the line... How could ANY D-line be better than that?

Honestly, I'd love to hear your reasoning, kevoncox.


My reasons for placing the Chargers and Pats ahead of us.

1) Their 3 players are as good as our ALL PRO trio. However, we have a 4th that isn't as good (yet?)
2) Our line has yet to play a down together. Their own has. Kevin and Pat dissappear sometimes. As much as I love them, I can say that it rare that they are both playing insipired football at all times. When they are we are unstoppable.
3) Just the rosters.
Chargers - All three of these guys are amazing. They do their jobs extremely well. They stop the run and enamble the LB Corps to flock to the ball. The best 3-4 group in all of football.
Igor Olshansky A
Jamal Williams A+
Luis Castillo A
Overal = 96.6

Pats - Injuries are the real reasons this team isn't as high as the Chargers in my book. Seymorcan't stay healthy. How else do you think thier old arse Lbs make so many plays? Instinct? LOL.
Warren - Underrated but as good as Castillio and Co from the Chargers. A-
Wilfolk - The most dominanting force at Dl in the league. He simply destroys run schemes. A+
Seymour - Amazing DLineman. Might be the best in the league. However, he is always hurt. A
Overall = 95

Vikes - They are at a disadvantage in my book because their unit is 4 players and to me you have to take the average of the group.

Allen - A+
Kevin - A
Pat - A
Edwards - B+
overall = 94.5

It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.



Bad reasoning IMO. The biggest priority for a DL in the 3-4 is to suck up defenders. Both the Pats and Chargers have stellar LBs as well. Discrediting us because we run a 4-3 is also a bit ridiculous. When it comes to making big plays, our DL is the best. They have a major positive impact and make plays on their own.

Anways, we are debating 2.1 points total, so I do see where you're coming from. I just don't agree.


I think the 2 defenses i listed do that extremely well and still make plays all over the field.
I'm not discrediting our Dline, I simiply think that these the Chargs, and Pats do not have an obvious weaklink on the DLine like we do in Edwards(Not that it hink he is that bad of a player. I think he has a couple Pro Bowls in him).



No way.
So you are saying that our DL would be better with just JA, Pat, and Kevin?
How does the addition of Edwards make them worse?

I don't see an obvious weak link anywhere on our DL.


No we can't run the 3-4 with our current group (Allen is too small, K. Williams might be too slow)
I am simply saying that when the term Dline is used it is the entire Dline.

I think the other teams' 3 are better than our combined 4.
I am calling edwards the weak point on the line so far. He will be good but he has to develop. I think he needs a few more pass rush moves and strenght( which he may have added in the offseason i hear.) However we are hoping he improves. These other teams units are already superior and have played together.

Also, we ahve 2 players facing serious strikes in Edwards and Allen. None of these other Dlines have players facing suspension( maybe Wilfok, if he doesn't get his temper under wraps. Damn MIA)

NodakPaul
07-16-2008, 04:22 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:










I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?


Facts in itself prove we have the best dline... how many seasons do u think it will take to become #1? i think after this year we will have the #1 run offense.


We had the #1 run offense last year, and we've had the #1 Run Defense the past two years...

Why would you put the Patriots or Chargers over a D-line that has been #1 in stopping the run the past two seasons... and got the best available FA in Jared Allen to beef up the line... How could ANY D-line be better than that?

Honestly, I'd love to hear your reasoning, kevoncox.


My reasons for placing the Chargers and Pats ahead of us.

1) Their 3 players are as good as our ALL PRO trio. However, we have a 4th that isn't as good (yet?)
2) Our line has yet to play a down together. Their own has. Kevin and Pat dissappear sometimes. As much as I love them, I can say that it rare that they are both playing insipired football at all times. When they are we are unstoppable.
3) Just the rosters.
Chargers - All three of these guys are amazing. They do their jobs extremely well. They stop the run and enamble the LB Corps to flock to the ball. The best 3-4 group in all of football.
Igor Olshansky A
Jamal Williams A+
Luis Castillo A
Overal = 96.6

Pats - Injuries are the real reasons this team isn't as high as the Chargers in my book. Seymorcan't stay healthy. How else do you think thier old arse Lbs make so many plays? Instinct? LOL.
Warren - Underrated but as good as Castillio and Co from the Chargers. A-
Wilfolk - The most dominanting force at Dl in the league. He simply destroys run schemes. A+
Seymour - Amazing DLineman. Might be the best in the league. However, he is always hurt. A
Overall = 95

Vikes - They are at a disadvantage in my book because their unit is 4 players and to me you have to take the average of the group.

Allen - A+
Kevin - A
Pat - A
Edwards - B+
overall = 94.5

It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.



Bad reasoning IMO. The biggest priority for a DL in the 3-4 is to suck up defenders. Both the Pats and Chargers have stellar LBs as well. Discrediting us because we run a 4-3 is also a bit ridiculous. When it comes to making big plays, our DL is the best. They have a major positive impact and make plays on their own.

Anways, we are debating 2.1 points total, so I do see where you're coming from. I just don't agree.


I think the 2 defenses i listed do that extremely well and still make plays all over the field.
I'm not discrediting our Dline, I simiply think that these the Chargs, and Pats do not have an obvious weaklink on the DLine like we do in Edwards(Not that it hink he is that bad of a player. I think he has a couple Pro Bowls in him).



No way.
So you are saying that our DL would be better with just JA, Pat, and Kevin?
How does the addition of Edwards make them worse?

I don't see an obvious weak link anywhere on our DL.


No we can't run the 3-4 with our current group (Allen is too small, K. Williams might be too slow)
I am simply saying that when the term Dline is used it is the entire Dline.

I think the other teams' 3 are better than our combined 4.
I am calling edwards the weak point on the line so far. He will be good but he has to develop. I think he needs a few more pass rush moves and strenght( which he may have added in the offseason i hear.) However we are hoping he improves. These other teams units are already superior and have played together.

Also, we ahve 2 players facing serious strikes in Edwards and Allen. None of these other Dlines have players facing suspension( maybe Wilfok, if he doesn't get his temper under wraps. gol 'darnit MIA)




I completely disagree.
The Pats?
How did their DL do against the Giants again?
And how did ours do?
And that was without Allen, and with a sick Udeze.

Our DL outperformed them both in rushing D last year, and we have added the NFL sack leader.
The only thing that you can hold on to is that they haven't played together.
But that is a pretty minor mark against them.

jmcdon00
07-16-2008, 04:55 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"erik5032" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



The Chargers as #1? Is that the same Chargers D-Line that gave up 296 rushing yards to AD?


Facts in itself prove we have the best dline... how many seasons do u think it will take to become #1? i think after this year we will have the #1 run offense.


We had the #1 run offense last year, and we've had the #1 Run Defense the past two years...

Why would you put the Patriots or Chargers over a D-line that has been #1 in stopping the run the past two seasons... and got the best available FA in Jared Allen to beef up the line... How could ANY D-line be better than that?

Honestly, I'd love to hear your reasoning, kevoncox.


My reasons for placing the Chargers and Pats ahead of us.

1) Their 3 players are as good as our ALL PRO trio. However, we have a 4th that isn't as good (yet?)
2) Our line has yet to play a down together. Their own has. Kevin and Pat dissappear sometimes. As much as I love them, I can say that it rare that they are both playing insipired football at all times. When they are we are unstoppable.
3) Just the rosters.
Chargers - All three of these guys are amazing. They do their jobs extremely well. They stop the run and enamble the LB Corps to flock to the ball. The best 3-4 group in all of football.
Igor Olshansky A
Jamal Williams A+
Luis Castillo A
Overal = 96.6

Pats - Injuries are the real reasons this team isn't as high as the Chargers in my book. Seymorcan't stay healthy. How else do you think thier old arse Lbs make so many plays? Instinct? LOL.
Warren - Underrated but as good as Castillio and Co from the Chargers. A-
Wilfolk - The most dominanting force at Dl in the league. He simply destroys run schemes. A+
Seymour - Amazing DLineman. Might be the best in the league. However, he is always hurt. A
Overall = 95

Vikes - They are at a disadvantage in my book because their unit is 4 players and to me you have to take the average of the group.

Allen - A+
Kevin - A
Pat - A
Edwards - B+
overall = 94.5

It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.




That might be your best post ever. Not that I agree with everything but still very nice job showing how you came to your conclusion.
(and I'm not sure Edwards deserves a B+ as of right now)

Zeus
07-16-2008, 05:08 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.


That might be your best post ever. Not that I agree with everything but still very nice job showing how you came to your conclusion.
(and I'm not sure Edwards deserves a B+ as of right now)


Did you move him up on your spreadsheet?

=Z=

jmcdon00
07-16-2008, 05:19 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.


That might be your best post ever. Not that I agree with everything but still very nice job showing how you came to your conclusion.
(and I'm not sure Edwards deserves a B+ as of right now)


Did you move him up on your spreadsheet?

=Z=

You better hope not, he's the only one seperating you from the bottom.
;D jk

Purple Floyd
07-16-2008, 05:38 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.


That might be your best post ever. Not that I agree with everything but still very nice job showing how you came to your conclusion.
(and I'm not sure Edwards deserves a B+ as of right now)


Did you move him up on your spreadsheet?

=Z=

You better hope not, he's the only one seperating you from the bottom.
;D jk


Went right for the kill with that one lol

kevoncox
07-16-2008, 06:36 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


It's just my opinion. I think we can be exceptional but I think these units have already proven they are great.


That might be your best post ever. Not that I agree with everything but still very nice job showing how you came to your conclusion.
(and I'm not sure Edwards deserves a B+ as of right now)


Did you move him up on your spreadsheet?

=Z=

You better hope not, he's the only one seperating you from the bottom.
;D jk


Went right for the kill with that one lol


Hitting below the belt. I'm taking points.

marstc09
07-16-2008, 06:47 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



What makes you think they are better?

Edit: Sorry just read it.

kevoncox
07-16-2008, 06:58 PM
"C" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I think the 2 defenses i listed do that extremely well and still make plays all over the field.
I'm not discrediting our Dline, I simiply think that these the Chargs, and Pats do not have an obvious weaklink on the DLine like we do in Edwards(Not that it hink he is that bad of a player. I think he has a couple Pro Bowls in him).


Your analysis is leaving me scratching my head...

The Pats had were 10th in stopping the run in 2007 and 5th in 2006....

The Chargers were 16th in stopping the run in 2007 and 7th in 2006....


The Vikings were 1st in stopping the run in 2007 and 1st in 2006....

And we got Jared Allen.

I just can't agree with you at all on this point. The Chargers and Patriots haven't improved their D-lines that much, while we took the best D-line in football and made it better.


"The Pats had were 10th in stopping the run in 2007 and 5th in 2006....

The Chargers were 16th in stopping the run in 2007 and 7th in 2006...."

These rankings are team based rankings not Dline Based rankings. So to use them is a stretch.
Stopping the run doesn't mean you have the best Dline. If you are using that as your only measuring stick then...yes we are the best. We did beat the chargers like a drum for 296. It doesn't mean that our dline is better than theirs, it means that our OLine, Rb and play caling was better than their Dline, Lb corps and deefensive stratgry that specific day.

When i made my ranking, I cafeully considered both the pass and the rush.
Why is NE able to throw some of the worst Cbs in the league back in coverage and still survive( Randell Gay and even Troy brown) Pressure.

I think you can line up the pats line and go player for player.
Our Best Lineman is Kwilliams. I would take Seymour for Williams. Both are excellent, However, Seymour is more versitile( and injury prone)

Next I would take Wilfolk over Pat. Both are great but Wilfolk is a force in the box( Pats more mobile)

Allen Vs. Warren is clearly allen.

Again we must judge as a unit. As a unit from top to bottom the chargers and Pats 3 link chain is stronger than our 4 link chain.

Overlord
07-16-2008, 07:39 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I think you can line up the pats line and go player for player.
Our Best Lineman is Kwilliams. I would take Seymour for Williams. Both are excellent, However, Seymour is more versitile( and injury prone)

Next I would take Wilfolk over Pat. Both are great but Wilfolk is a force in the box( Pats more mobile)

Allen Vs. Warren is clearly allen.

Again we must judge as a unit. As a unit from top to bottom the chargers and Pats 3 link chain is stronger than our 4 link chain.


I think you have to include the outside linebackers when comparing a 3-4 to a 4-3, so I can easily see the Chargers as having as good a D-line as us.
Of course, how the paper translates to production for all of these teams remains to be seen.

But I disagree with you analysis of the Pats down linemen against ours.


I might have agreed with you on Seymour over Kevin Williams three years ago, but injuries and a general decline in play have changed that.
As for versatility, Kevin Williams started for us playing defensive end.
I think they're similar players.

I think you're way off on the Wilfork over Pat Williams choice.
Pat Williams is dominating.
I don't know how else to say it.
Wilfork is very good, but he's not Pat Williams.
At least he is no better than Pat Williams.

Don't get me wrong - the Pats have a very good line.
But the talent we have at the DT position is pretty special in my opinion.

Purple Floyd
07-16-2008, 07:58 PM
Are we just including what the teams do against the run and not the pass? If so, then we have a good case for being called the best. If on the other hand you take into account the total effort against the run and the pass, then we are not clearly the best yet. We had a terrible time putting pressure on the QB in recent years and until we actually go out and prove that we fixed it, then we are left with nothing but speculation.

I do believe that by the time the next season comes to a close that we will be considered on of the elite D-lines in the league, but right now we are just a team that has has trouble in 50% of it's responsibility that is hoping to do better.

Overlord
07-16-2008, 08:20 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Are we just including what the teams do against the run and not the pass? If so, then we have a good case for being called the best. If on the other hand you take into account the total effort against the run and the pass, then we are not clearly the best yet. We had a terrible time putting pressure on the QB in recent years and until we actually go out and prove that we fixed it, then we are left with nothing but speculation.

I do believe that by the time the next season comes to a close that we will be considered on of the elite D-lines in the league, but right now we are just a team that has has trouble in 50% of it's responsibility that is hoping to do better.


Again, this is tough with 3-4 teams because you really have to take into account the linebackers.
For example, the Patriots defensive-line accounted for about 14 sacks last year, while the Vikings defensive line accounted for about 28.
However, the Patriots as a team ended up with 47 sacks to our 38.
Similarly, the Chargers defensive-line accounted for only about 10 sacks, but the team racked up 42.

If you're talking about true hand in the dirt defensive linemen, then the guys on the Patriots and Chargers don't do much in the passing game.
What they do is hold the point and allow the star athletes - Merriman, Colvin, Thomas, etc. - to make plays.
So you really do have to consider those linebackers.


Anyway, we're not the same unit we were last year.
We added one of the best defensive ends in the league.
I think that's going to make us elite, and I don't think you're going to have to wait until the end of the season to say it.
I wouldn't be surprised if you felt pretty confident saying that by mid-September.

cajunvike
07-16-2008, 08:56 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I think you can line up the pats line and go player for player.
Our Best Lineman is Kwilliams. I would take Seymour for Williams. Both are excellent, However, Seymour is more versitile( and injury prone)

Next I would take Wilfolk over Pat. Both are great but Wilfolk is a force in the box( Pats more mobile)

Allen Vs. Warren is clearly allen.

Again we must judge as a unit. As a unit from top to bottom the chargers and Pats 3 link chain is stronger than our 4 link chain.


I think you have to include the outside linebackers when comparing a 3-4 to a 4-3, so I can easily see the Chargers as having as good a D-line as us.
Of course, how the paper translates to production for all of these teams remains to be seen.

But I disagree with you analysis of the Pats down linemen against ours.


I might have agreed with you on Seymour over Kevin Williams three years ago, but injuries and a general decline in play have changed that.
As for versatility, Kevin Williams started for us playing defensive end.
I think they're similar players.

I think you're way off on the Wilfork over Pat Williams choice.
Pat Williams is dominating.
I don't know how else to say it.
Wilfork is very good, but he's not Pat Williams.
At least he is no better than Pat Williams.

Don't get me wrong - the Pats have a very good line.
But the talent we have at the DT position is pretty special in my opinion.


Agreed... fuck the Pats and fuck the Chargers.

cajunvike
07-16-2008, 09:01 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



And maybe they get more points for fielding 4 LBs in the LB rankings.
Front seven vs. front seven, I would still take the Vikings D as #1 overall.
Nuff said.

Vikes_King
07-17-2008, 12:16 AM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I'm a happy Vikes fan but i think if you are talking Dlines, I would have to go with the Pats or Chargers as # 1. Perharps we got more points because we are feilding a 4-3 versus a 3-4.

Either way I have us as the top 4-3 Dline and the Third best line overall..



And maybe they get more points for fielding 4 LBs in the LB rankings.
Front seven vs. front seven, I would still take the Vikings D as #1 overall.
Nuff said.


i'm with you, granted those others are very, very good units, i'm really pumped about our front 7 - or even our D as a whole

kevoncox
07-17-2008, 11:10 AM
"Overlord" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I think you can line up the pats line and go player for player.
Our Best Lineman is Kwilliams. I would take Seymour for Williams. Both are excellent, However, Seymour is more versitile( and injury prone)

Next I would take Wilfolk over Pat. Both are great but Wilfolk is a force in the box( Pats more mobile)

Allen Vs. Warren is clearly allen.

Again we must judge as a unit. As a unit from top to bottom the chargers and Pats 3 link chain is stronger than our 4 link chain.


I think you have to include the outside linebackers when comparing a 3-4 to a 4-3, so I can easily see the Chargers as having as good a D-line as us.
Of course, how the paper translates to production for all of these teams remains to be seen.

But I disagree with you analysis of the Pats down linemen against ours.


I might have agreed with you on Seymour over Kevin Williams three years ago, but injuries and a general decline in play have changed that.
As for versatility, Kevin Williams started for us playing defensive end.
I think they're similar players.

I think you're way off on the Wilfork over Pat Williams choice.
Pat Williams is dominating.
I don't know how else to say it.
Wilfork is very good, but he's not Pat Williams.
At least he is no better than Pat Williams.

Don't get me wrong - the Pats have a very good line.
But the talent we have at the DT position is pretty special in my opinion.


I would put Wilfolk over Pat because of Wilfolks of the ball speed. The only DTs I can think of that come off the ball like he does is Tommie Harris. Except Wilfolk is bigger, stronger and plays with a nastier streak. I love Pat and the way he moves for
aman his side but Wilfolk is on another level.
BTW i hate the F*ckign Pats!!!
>:( >:(

SuperVikesfan
07-17-2008, 11:13 AM
I am not surprised I mean we have 3 Pro Bowlers on the D-line. Who knows? Maybe they will become the modern day Purple People Eaters. That would be something.

ItalianStallion
07-17-2008, 11:17 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I would put Wilfolk over Pat because of Wilfolks of the ball speed. The only DTs I can think of that come off the ball like he does is Tommie Harris. Except Wilfolk is bigger, stronger and plays with a nastier streak. I love Pat and the way he moves for
aman his side but Wilfolk is on another level.
BTW i hate the F*ckign Pats!!!
>:( >:(


Wilfork is a dirty player.
The only reason I'd take him over Pat is because he's quite a bit younger, but I'd Pat is better at getting to the ball than Wilfork is.

Tommie Harris is more like Kevin Williams, only he's always hurt.
They're more well rounded, athletic DTs who can be disruptive against the pass too.