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View Full Version : 49er Game 07 was the turning point...



StillPurple
05-30-2008, 02:15 AM
Ok, I think this is the time to bring this up. This has been bothering me since November 2007. I sometimes feel that I am the only one who saw this, too.

I am talking about the 49er game:

- Up to that point: AP was ripping apart defenses, and D-coordinators had no answers to it.

- The SF game changed everything: the Niners stacked the "box", forcing us to pass, and we couldn't. There were no lanes to run in, and AP was completely stuffed.

Every team we played after that watched what the Niners did to us that game and copied it. And the thing that bothers me is that Chilly and his coaches had - apparently - no answer for it.

My major concern going into 2008: this will continue. We will see 8 and even 9 defenders in the box, with no lanes for AP, and single coverage on our WRs, and we won't move the chains.

Am I the only one who sees this ? Please wake me up and tell me this was all a nightmare.

midgensa
05-30-2008, 03:01 AM
I am sorry buddy ... I am beginning to think there is nothing that will wake you up.
;D

thevikingfan
05-30-2008, 03:23 AM
Thats why we got bernard berrian, so that when they do stack the box then we get
a single safety or single coverage and we take them apart in the passing game.then they take the men out of the box and we can run again,problem solved

jkjuggalo
05-30-2008, 05:19 AM
Chester Taylor still ripped off a big run and ended up w/ 101 yards.
TJack actually had one of the best games of the season against SF.
He was on pace to have his best game ever until the coaches shut it down and played clock control for the entire second half.


AD will get his this season...don't be such a negative-nancy. ;)

StillPurple
05-30-2008, 07:00 AM
Man, I don't recall the game going that way. I do recall the run by Chester now, though. But I think it was early in the game, no ? I was watching it in a sports bar and there were like 10 Vikings fans (I don't live in MN), and I recall us cheering maybe twice in that game.

I will have to look up the numbers in that game (should have already done that before my post, I admit that).

But I still maintain that the box got stacked against us in every game after that. BTW, the box was stacked and the linebackers were keying on AP, so I guess to me, that doesn't negate my point that they took AP out of that game if Chester broke one off. And after that,
the Bears, Redskins, etc. all stacked the box with everyone keying on AP, and mostly took him out of those games.

I am pretty sure that won't continue, but it seemed to me that Childress didn't find an answer to that yet. I am not sure what the answer is, but obviously, it has something to do with the QB throwing when they put 8 and 9 defenders in the box.

PurpleTide
05-30-2008, 07:08 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Man, I don't recall the game going that way. I do recall the run by Chester now, though. But I think it was early in the game, no ? I was watching it in a sports bar and there were like 10 Vikings fans (I don't live in MN), and I recall us cheering maybe twice in that game.

I will have to look up the numbers in that game (should have already done that before my post, I admit that).

But I still maintain that the box got stacked against us in every game after that. BTW, the box was stacked and the linebackers were keying on AP, so I guess to me, that doesn't negate my point that they took AP out of that game if Chester broke one off. And after that,
the Bears, Redskins, etc. all stacked the box with everyone keying on AP, and mostly took him out of those games.

I am pretty sure that won't continue, but it seemed to me that Childress didn't find an answer to that yet. I am not sure what the answer is, but obviously, it has something to do with the QB throwing when they put 8 and 9 defenders in the box.



Let them stack the box again this year. They will soon learn that Sidney, Wade, and Berrian can defeat single coverage. This year expect more audibles, and a expanded play-book for Tarvaris, who now in his third year will be able to open things up some more audible wise. Shiancoe, and Tapeh will also have bigger roles and be more a threat this year. So I say stack the box, and we will go over the top till you stop, and then we will maul you with our rushing attack.

StillPurple
05-30-2008, 07:08 AM
Just looked the stats up:

- Peterson had only 3 yards rushing on 14 carries.
- Chester had 101 yards on 8 carries, but that includes the 85 yard run.
- Tarvaris was 16/25 for like 165 yards and a TD pass with no INTs.

We won because the Niners turned the ball over 5 times...

To me, what jumps out is the 3 yards for AP (obviously). For a QB to throw that yardage vs. a stacked box all day is very, very mediocre, too. Chester had a good day, but based on one run.

Obviously, I hope that this does not continue, and I trust that Chilly has a better answer for this than to try to run AP off tackle 20 times in a row. I would expect more screen passes to AP and some slants to Wade, etc. to get us out of this. But my main point is that D-Coordinators around the NFL have found a way to slow AP down, and we need to counter that.

Football is about adjustments...
And it seems to me, that trend continued in the final games.

KevinK
05-30-2008, 08:05 AM
Okay StillPurple you do bring up some good points. There is no doubt what the Niners did in that game was exceptional what they did to stop AD. And there are many questions about our Offense with an unproven QB. But we have picked up key free agents like BB and Jarred Allen to help with our weaker parts of the team. I know Allen wont help your offensive downfall point but Berrian will help.
As far as Im concerned Im with you. I dont think your being "negative Nancy",
I think your being a highly critical fan and think your point is valid..... :)

Prophet
05-30-2008, 08:34 AM
I think that was the year when the Patriots exposed the weakness and eveyone followed....or was that in '06?
The defense was playing tough and the Patriots came into town and tore them up and everyone followed their lead in the subsequent games.
That's no secret though, that has gone on since the game's infancy.
Some team plays tough against another team and everyone copies them.
I wonder why DE was such a popular position this year?
Do you think the Patriots will be 16-0 again when every team will follow the Jints lead and try to pummell Brady on every down?
It's a copycat league, always has been.

Purple Floyd
05-30-2008, 10:14 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


I think that was the year when the Patriots exposed the weakness and eveyone followed....or was that in '06?
The defense was playing tough and the Patriots came into town and tore them up and everyone followed their lead in the subsequent games.
That's no secret though, that has gone on since the game's infancy.
Some team plays tough against another team and everyone copies them.
I wonder why DE was such a popular position this year?
Do you think the Patriots will be 16-0 again when every team will follow the Jints lead and try to pummell Brady on every down?
It's a copycat league, always has been.


I agree. It all started wit the 06 Patriots game.

And apparently they emailed our offensive signals to every team we faced except Seattle, San Diego,Chicago and the Giants.

Bastards.

kevoncox
05-30-2008, 11:42 AM
BB is not going to solve a damn thing. I like the guy and he is a good WR but his skill set won't defeat the defense we are facing. The defenses we are facing are basically giving us this look.

CB



FS



CB


They have the deep ball covered. What is available to us ar hooks, outs, ins, comebacks. We need our savior this year will be Rice, Shank and or Tjack. A burner is going to push the saftey and CBs deep with him. The defense is design to prevent the deep ball. Rice or Shank must develop into a consistant receiving threat. TJ must make the these throws while avoiding the deception of the underneath LBs and fake blitzs. He must make his reads quickly and find what area of the 5-12 yard
box is uncovered.








The 49ers weren't the first team to stack the box. What the 49ers did was run a slight version of spy with their Cbs. They ran what we called an umbrella. It was later ran to perfection by the Skins.
Before the play started the 49ers defense looked like this





S

CB




S

CB

We never adjusted and it's the biggest question mark facing the team. Some of you felt it was DE but I didn't. We have to find away to spread teams out and run the ball. We must now do to teams what they started to do to us since the 06 Pats game. We must get the extra Lbs off the field.

dcboardr41
05-30-2008, 11:45 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Just looked the stats up:

- Peterson had only 3 yards rushing on 14 carries.
- Chester had 101 yards on 8 carries, but that includes the 85 yard run.
- Tarvaris was 16/25 for like 165 yards and a TD pass with no INTs.

We won because the Niners turned the ball over 5 times...

To me, what jumps out is the 3 yards for AP (obviously). For a QB to throw that yardage vs. a stacked box all day is very, very mediocre, too. Chester had a good day, but based on one run.

Obviously, I hope that this does not continue, and I trust that Chilly has a better answer for this than to try to run AP off tackle 20 times in a row. I would expect more screen passes to AP and some slants to Wade, etc. to get us out of this. But my main point is that D-Coordinators around the NFL have found a way to slow AP down, and we need to counter that.

Football is about adjustments...
And it seems to me, that trend continued in the final games.


dude, listen, this game was over in the 1st quarter, our D had i think 3 turnover and we were up 21-0 then, the game was over. Chilly was wasting time to get the game over, u act like we were in a close game and ur hating on Chilly, thats dumb

dcboardr41
05-30-2008, 11:55 AM
people once again need to realize BB will not be our savior. But will be a
key addition in our passing and running offense. I actually believe Sidney Rice will have more production and a bigger role in our O than BB. People are giving BB way to much hype already, yes hes a good WR, but hes not gonna turn our passing game around himself. We need Rice to mature more, we need Wade to go back to his "slot" status, and we need to the younger WRs to have key plays during the year.

midgensa
05-30-2008, 11:58 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Man, I don't recall the game going that way. I do recall the run by Chester now, though. But I think it was early in the game, no ? I was watching it in a sports bar and there were like 10 Vikings fans (I don't live in MN), and I recall us cheering maybe twice in that game.

I will have to look up the numbers in that game (should have already done that before my post, I admit that).

But I still maintain that the box got stacked against us in every game after that. BTW, the box was stacked and the linebackers were keying on AP, so I guess to me, that doesn't negate my point that they took AP out of that game if Chester broke one off. And after that,
the Bears, Redskins, etc. all stacked the box with everyone keying on AP, and mostly took him out of those games.

I am pretty sure that won't continue, but it seemed to me that Childress didn't find an answer to that yet. I am not sure what the answer is, but obviously, it has something to do with the QB throwing when they put 8 and 9 defenders in the box.


What the hell is the guy supposed to do? Sidney was hurt for the end of the regular season so we had to rely on Wade and Williamson to break the 9 in the box?
He addressed the problem you had immediately in the offseason by getting Bernard Berrian.
As far as Adrian being stuffed ... we were ahead like 21-0 almost immediately in that game ... we did not even PRETEND to pass in the second half as both teams clearly just wanted the clock to run out. The games following ... Adrian went for two touchdowns in the win over the Bears. Against the Skins and Broncos we had to PASS the entire game because we were behind. That is actually pretty common in football.
See, in the NFL, when you get behind ... you PASS to try and catch up because it does not chew up as much time and it breaks off longer chunks of yardage. Got it?
Hate, hate, hate all you like, but Childress and the FO CLEARLY addressed the passing game in the offseason by picking up the BEST WR on the market ... now that that has been cleared up ... pick something else to bitch about.

mountainviking
05-30-2008, 12:08 PM
With TJack more comfortable in the offense and reading the field better, I think we'll see a lot more of the playbook open up.
I fully expect several big play passes early as we prove to teams that we can pass against their zone CB blitz.


I'm not calling on Berrian to be our savior (thanks AP ;) ) but, I am counting on him to be a huge upgrade over TWill's stonehands!
I can't wait to see some more 3 and 4 WR sets too...picture, Berrian and Rice on the outsides going deep, Wade doing a mid slant from on side and Ferguson or Allison running a short cross on the other...even if they cover deep and zone blitz, those mid routes will be pretty open, as long as TJack can hit the right guy quick, we'll be looking good.
Then as we start making those plays consistently, watch out for AP to tear up spread out Defenses!!


But, as already pointed out, that was a weird game that our defense pretty much won for us early.
Lots of points up and lots of eat the clock running going on...which is pretty much expected and going nowhere.
Add in a bit of the rookie wall for AP, and how comfortable he was in that brace after the injury, and I think lower numbers are expected late in the year.

happy camper
05-30-2008, 12:21 PM
Jackson, Rice, Wade, Allison, Peterson and Ferguson all gained some experience points (as players, as players in the system, and as players working together) last season. Remember, all of these guys were working together for the first time last season. A couple were rookies and a couple were just new to the team. Give them another offseason and I guarantee we see a more gelled offense.

We added Bernard Berrian.

Taylor and Peterson are still awesome.

I've got confidence. I really think any team who ignores the pass and focuses purely on the run will get torched. I do not believe the Vikings will be the same one-dimensional team they were in San Fran and later in the 2007 season.

My biggest worries are injuries (goes without saying) and the Birk and Mckinnie situations.

josdin00
05-30-2008, 12:21 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. At that point, weren't there still questions about AD's pass blocking abilities? I don't think he was in the game for many pass plays, so when he was in, it was easier/less risky for the defenses to key on him. If that was the case, that is definitely an issue that can be cured with an off-season's worth of work.

StillPurple
05-30-2008, 01:00 PM
kevancox, excellent post. Your post was the one I should have written, but I don't think I saw what you saw. Excellent. And it also shows why deep WRs and a relatively inexperienced QB won't get us out of the "jam", especially when our coaching staff is being outcoached too (as occured in the Redskins game).

BTW, guys, I was not arguing that we played badly in the SF game. We won it, so in my book, we played it "right". But I was saying, if you look at every game after that, the defenses became WAY more effective at stopping our offense, and I think that they just copied what SF did to us. And kevancox explained way better than me, what was going on.

As he mentioned, if you take the deep routes (using a Cover 2 or Cover 3 zone) away and jam the box, this offense is really, really weak. We need to get this fixed, too !! I was expecting us to take or trade for some underneath threat, a WR in the Keyshawn Johnson or Chris Carter mould, or a good TE. We didnt' do it, and I am worried about this issue going into '08. Maybe a running back will step up and become an underneath passing threat. I don't know. But it has to improve. If I were the Vikings staff, I would thow AP 100 screen passes a day, too in training camp.

mountainviking
05-30-2008, 01:13 PM
I think that's where another year for Allison helps, as well as having a better deep threat and putting Wade where he fits best.
Of course, it will help even more if TJack really is, "reading the field better, and going through his progressions," cuz I think we'll see some nice YAC if he starts getting those 2nd and third options more involved.

Allison is very shifty, and has a surprising burst to high gear that can leave those LBs liing on their faces in the middle zone.

kevoncox
05-30-2008, 01:56 PM
"midgensa" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Man, I don't recall the game going that way. I do recall the run by Chester now, though. But I think it was early in the game, no ? I was watching it in a sports bar and there were like 10 Vikings fans (I don't live in MN), and I recall us cheering maybe twice in that game.

I will have to look up the numbers in that game (should have already done that before my post, I admit that).

But I still maintain that the box got stacked against us in every game after that. BTW, the box was stacked and the linebackers were keying on AP, so I guess to me, that doesn't negate my point that they took AP out of that game if Chester broke one off. And after that,
the Bears, Redskins, etc. all stacked the box with everyone keying on AP, and mostly took him out of those games.

I am pretty sure that won't continue, but it seemed to me that Childress didn't find an answer to that yet. I am not sure what the answer is, but obviously, it has something to do with the QB throwing when they put 8 and 9 defenders in the box.


What the hell is the guy supposed to do? Sidney was hurt for the end of the regular season so we had to rely on Wade and Williamson to break the 9 in the box?
He addressed the problem you had immediately in the offseason by getting Bernard Berrian.
As far as Adrian being stuffed ... we were ahead like 21-0 almost immediately in that game ... we did not even PRETEND to pass in the second half as both teams clearly just wanted the clock to run out. The games following ... Adrian went for two touchdowns in the win over the Bears. Against the Skins and Broncos we had to PASS the entire game because we were behind. That is actually pretty common in football.
See, in the NFL, when you get behind ... you PASS to try and catch up because it does not chew up as much time and it breaks off longer chunks of yardage. Got it?
Hate, hate, hate all you like, but Childress and the FO CLEARLY addressed the passing game in the offseason by picking up the BEST WR on the market ... now that that has been cleared up ... pick something else to beeyatch about.


So your belief on the reasons we were behing in the Skins and Denver game had nothing to do with the facct that we were not able to run the ball sucessfully? They stopped us earlier and forced us to take the pass. They dictated what we could do. Our Qb was not able to make those passes and he threw INts. Our WRs caught the ball and then fumbled it to the defense. We could not run the ball because they took away the run.

baumy300
05-30-2008, 02:15 PM
We're going to be fine.

T-Jack does need to be more consistent, yes. Overall though we will be fine.

The Bears made it to the Super Bowl with a QB who is about on our level and a running game that isn't anywhere near ours. We have an equal or better defense than the one they had, and our offense is without a question better. We have what it takes to go deep this year.

bleedpurple
05-30-2008, 02:56 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


BB is not going to solve a gol 'darnit thing. I like the guy and he is a good WR but his skill set won't defeat the defense we are facing. The defenses we are facing are basically giving us this look.

CB



FS



CB


They have the deep ball covered. What is available to us ar hooks, outs, ins, comebacks. We need our savior this year will be Rice, Shank and or Tjack. A burner is going to push the saftey and CBs deep with him. The defense is design to prevent the deep ball. Rice or Shank must develop into a consistant receiving threat. TJ must make the these throws while avoiding the deception of the underneath LBs and fake blitzs. He must make his reads quickly and find what area of the 5-12 yard
box is uncovered.








The 49ers weren't the first team to stack the box. What the 49ers did was run a slight version of spy with their Cbs. They ran what we called an umbrella. It was later ran to perfection by the Skins.
Before the play started the 49ers defense looked like this





S

CB




S

CB

We never adjusted and it's the biggest question mark facing the team. Some of you felt it was DE but I didn't. We have to find away to spread teams out and run the ball. We must now do to teams what they started to do to us since the 06 Pats game. We must get the extra Lbs off the field.



Thanks Kev.. that's exactly what i've been saying about us adding BB and us needing another receiver other than BObby Wade.. but ppl on here have been giving me ish about it!!..

Stil purple i actually agree with you...(for a change!!!) and think you are right on the money with your topic starting post...!!!!!

My contention in this case is with the coaching staff... they didn't find a way to adjust to what teams were doing against us... same with the Pats game the year before...

Until i see our coaching staff be able to make adjustments /in-game adjustments, i will wonder about our ability to go deep into the playoffs... It took them like 4 games to figure out that every team we played after the 9ers game was gonna run the exact same thing until we found a way to beat it..
and we never adjusted!!!..

I think the staff should have sent TJ to the line of scrimmage in a 3 wide set with two plays.. pass first, run second.... until they got out of that defense..


BUT NO, WE KEPT RUNNING THE SAME POWER FORMATION AND weren't able to open it up until the 2nd half of the skins, bears and Broncos game!!!.. which makes no sense... we should have done that the next possession we saw the same thing!!!....

Our coaches inability to make adjustments on the fly will most likely be our achilles heal this year with the exception of TJ's development, which arguably have alot to do with one another!!!....

VikingsTw
05-30-2008, 03:06 PM
The 49ers played some tuff run defense in that game but Tarvaris also made them pay with a perfect pass to Furgy on a CB blitz that he read and beat. He also had zero INT's, protecting the ball is huge.

The Redskins game was a bad game for alot of players, most notably Tarvaris, it was National Televised game and the guys around him didn't exactly help him out. I was really bumbed that Rice was injured and he had Wade and Furgy on the outside against a top defense. The OLine played like sh*t and we suffered, both in the run game and pass game. Tarvaris didn't help matters and made bad passes while under pressure. Our Dline couldn't touch Todd Collins and he had day to pick upart our DB's and LB's, even then we played fairly solid but given pressure I think we would have won that game regardless of poor offensive play. Pointing the finger at anyone player in this game would be a mistake.

To the fool who has no confidence in Bernard Berrian is just that, a fool. He thinks Bernard is here just to go deep, this is very incorrect. If he was to go back and watch Berrians play he would understand why his now a Viking. He has very solid speed, runs a nice route and gets good seperation. He didn't produce 71 long bombs, he's a West Coast guy that is willing to go over the middle and do the intermediate shorter routes. He's still young and will improve his routes even more, he has great ball skills and body control. IMO he is a complete wide reciever and not one dimensional. Same goes for a number of WR's on our roster, Rice doesn't have great speed but he is a threat downfield. I have alot of confidence with the guys we have here, the one thing I worry about is continuety and timing, next year should be even better. By then Allison or Jaymar Johnson should have Bobby's job.

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 03:22 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Ok, I think this is the time to bring this up. This has been bothering me since November 2007. I sometimes feel that I am the only one who saw this, too.

I am talking about the 49er game:

- Up to that point: AP was ripping apart defenses, and D-coordinators had no answers to it.

- The SF game changed everything: the Niners stacked the "box", forcing us to pass, and we couldn't. There were no lanes to run in, and AP was completely stuffed.

Every team we played after that watched what the Niners did to us that game and copied it. And the thing that bothers me is that Chilly and his coaches had - apparently - no answer for it.

My major concern going into 2008: this will continue. We will see 8 and even 9 defenders in the box, with no lanes for AP, and single coverage on our WRs, and we won't move the chains.

Am I the only one who sees this ? Please wake me up and tell me this was all a nightmare.

Do you honestly believe that game was the first game that we started to see 8 and 9 man fronts?

Go back and use youtube.
You will find that as AD started to become a known threat 8 man fronts were pretty common.

As for waking you up, I've been trying for some time now but you just aren't listening.

Go ahead, relent, get on the Happy Happy Joy Joy Bandwagon my friend.
Life will be simpler.
;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48dMlT27v8

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 03:25 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Just looked the stats up:

- Peterson had only 3 yards rushing on 14 carries.
- Chester had 101 yards on 8 carries, but that includes the 85 yard run.
- Tarvaris was 16/25 for like 165 yards and a TD pass with no INTs.

We won because the Niners turned the ball over 5 times...

To me, what jumps out is the 3 yards for AP (obviously). For a QB to throw that yardage vs. a stacked box all day is very, very mediocre, too. Chester had a good day, but based on one run.

Obviously, I hope that this does not continue, and I trust that Chilly has a better answer for this than to try to run AP off tackle 20 times in a row. I would expect more screen passes to AP and some slants to Wade, etc. to get us out of this. But my main point is that D-Coordinators around the NFL have found a way to slow AP down, and we need to counter that.

Football is about adjustments...And it seems to me, that trend continued in the final games.

I just love it when someone uses that cliche........ ;D

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 03:27 PM
"midgensa" wrote:


What the hell is the guy supposed to do? Sidney was hurt for the end of the regular season so we had to rely on Wade and Williamson to break the 9 in the box?
He addressed the problem you had immediately in the offseason by getting Bernard Berrian.
As far as Adrian being stuffed ... we were ahead like 21-0 almost immediately in that game ... we did not even PRETEND to pass in the second half as both teams clearly just wanted the clock to run out. The games following ... Adrian went for two touchdowns in the win over the Bears. Against the Skins and Broncos we had to PASS the entire game because we were behind. That is actually pretty common in football.
See, in the NFL, when you get behind ... you PASS to try and catch up because it does not chew up as much time and it breaks off longer chunks of yardage. Got it?
Hate, hate, hate all you like, but Childress and the FO CLEARLY addressed the passing game in the offseason by picking up the BEST WR on the market ... now that that has been cleared up ... pick something else to beeyatch about.

Thats an excellent post right thar.
;D

bleedpurple
05-30-2008, 03:28 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


The 49ers played some tuff run defense in that game but Tarvaris also made them pay with a perfect pass to Furgy on a CB blitz that he read and beat. He also had zero INT's, protecting the ball is huge.

The Redskins game was a bad game for alot of players, most notably Tarvaris, it was National Televised game and the guys around him didn't exactly help him out. I was really bumbed that Rice was injured and he had Wade and Furgy on the outside against a top defense. The OLine played like sh*t and we suffered, both in the run game and pass game. Tarvaris didn't help matters and made bad passes while under pressure. Our Dline couldn't touch Todd Collins and he had day to pick upart our DB's and LB's, even then we played fairly solid but given pressure I think we would have won that game regardless of poor offensive play. Pointing the finger at anyone player in this game would be a mistake.

To the fool who has no confidence in Bernard Berrian is just that, a fool. He thinks Bernard is here just to go deep, this is very incorrect. If he was to go back and watch Berrians play he would understand why his now a Viking. He has very solid speed, runs a nice route and gets good seperation. He didn't produce 71 long bombs, he's a West Coast guy that is willing to go over the middle and do the intermediate shorter routes. He's still young and will improve his routes even more, he has great ball skills and body control. IMO he is a complete wide reciever and not one dimensional. Same goes for a number of WR's on our roster, Rice doesn't have great speed but he is a threat downfield. I have alot of confidence with the guys we have here, the one thing I worry about is continuety and timing, next year should be even better. By then Allison or Jaymar Johnson should have Bobby's job.


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 03:31 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


Thanks Kev.. that's exactly what i've been saying about us adding BB and us needing another receiver other than BObby Wade.. but ppl on here have been giving me ish about it!!..

Stil purple i actually agree with you...(for a change!!!) and think you are right on the money with your topic starting post...!!!!!

My contention in this case is with the coaching staff... they didn't find a way to adjust to what teams were doing against us... same with the Pats game the year before...

Until i see our coaching staff be able to make adjustments /in-game adjustments, i will wonder about our ability to go deep into the playoffs... It took them like 4 games to figure out that every team we played after the 9ers game was gonna run the exact same thing until we found a way to beat it..
and we never adjusted!!!..

I think the staff should have sent TJ to the line of scrimmage in a 3 wide set with two plays.. pass first, run second.... until they got out of that defense..


BUT NO, WE KEPT RUNNING THE SAME POWER FORMATION AND weren't able to open it up until the 2nd half of the skins, bears and Broncos game!!!.. which makes no sense... we should have done that the next possession we saw the same thing!!!....

Our coaches inability to make adjustments on the fly will most likely be our achilles heal this year with the exception of TJ's development, which arguably have alot to do with one another!!!....



You can use my name instead of using the "People" approach when it comes to B-wade.
It will make it easier to search for the threads and then highlight them this year when he is doing exactly what you say he can't.
;D

You are another guy, by the way, who likes to throw the adjustment cliche around it seems.
I think you could have been a bit more creative and used it at least 3 more times in that para instead of actually describing an adjustment

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 03:38 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...

Give me your dream scenario for what should have happened in the offseason to fix the WR corp to include CAP implications to sign all the Vets your gonna mention.

Maybe, just maybe, in the real world, your plan won't work.

Face it my friend, our offense was lacking last year in the area of passing and most of it was centered on 3 things...

a.
T-will.
b.
TJ
c.
OL protection.

T-will is gone.
BB will provide the production we didn't get out of that guy.

TJ for cripes sake was learning on the field last year.
Why can't you come to grips with that fact.
He will read defenses better, he will throw the ball on target to WR's in stride this year and our passing will be better because of the reps/experience he got last year.

OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his shitty play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)

kevoncox
05-30-2008, 04:08 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


The 49ers played some tuff run defense in that game but Tarvaris also made them pay with a perfect pass to Furgy on a CB blitz that he read and beat. He also had zero INT's, protecting the ball is huge.

The Redskins game was a bad game for alot of players, most notably Tarvaris, it was National Televised game and the guys around him didn't exactly help him out. I was really bumbed that Rice was injured and he had Wade and Furgy on the outside against a top defense. The OLine played like sh*t and we suffered, both in the run game and pass game. Tarvaris didn't help matters and made bad passes while under pressure. Our Dline couldn't touch Todd Collins and he had day to pick upart our DB's and LB's, even then we played fairly solid but given pressure I think we would have won that game regardless of poor offensive play. Pointing the finger at anyone player in this game would be a mistake.

To the fool who has no confidence in Bernard Berrian is just that, a fool. He thinks Bernard is here just to go deep, this is very incorrect. If he was to go back and watch Berrians play he would understand why his now a Viking. He has very solid speed, runs a nice route and gets good seperation. He didn't produce 71 long bombs, he's a West Coast guy that is willing to go over the middle and do the intermediate shorter routes. He's still young and will improve his routes even more, he has great ball skills and body control. IMO he is a complete wide reciever and not one dimensional. Same goes for a number of WR's on our roster, Rice doesn't have great speed but he is a threat downfield. I have alot of confidence with the guys we have here, the one thing I worry about is continuety and timing, next year should be even better. By then Allison or Jaymar Johnson should have Bobby's job.


N ot sure if you are talking about me here but I will defend myself nevertheless. I never siad I don't have confidence in BB. I do. However, he is a better version of Greg Jennings of the Packs. Yes he can work the middle but BB is more of a burner working the deep crossing patterns than the intermeddiate routes. If you saw any ears games last year, you would see that most of his catches came on the long ball. They weren't allways homerun threats but they were well above the NFL average of 6 yards a pass.
My point is the belief of this board is that if teams are stacking the box we will go "up top to BB". That's not going to happen. I have already pointed out where in the field we must target. TJ must be able to locate the hole in the defenses. With the added pressue the 2nd level of the defense will be like swiss cheese. There will be huge holes but defenses will try to cover them by jumping in and out of these zones. It TJ locks on to a WR like he did last year. He will get picked. If our WRs don't get seperation( BB or who ever) we will struggle. Like I said, the deep ball will not be there, the middle will be. A smart team will use their Burner to push the Deep 3 back and open up the window for our other WRs.

gagarr
05-30-2008, 04:11 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...

Give me your dream scenario for what should have happened in the offseason to fix the WR corp to include CAP implications to sign all the Vets your gonna mention.

Maybe, just maybe, in the real world, your plan won't work.

Face it my friend, our offense was lacking last year in the area of passing and most of it was centered on 3 things...

a.
T-will.
b.
TJ
c.
OL protection.

T-will is gone.
BB will provide the production we didn't get out of that guy.

TJ for cripes sake was learning on the field last year.
Why can't you come to grips with that fact.
He will read defenses better, he will throw the ball on target to WR's in stride this year and our passing will be better because of the reps/experience he got last year.

OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


Marrdro, all you need to do is replace the "will"s with "should"s and I'll agree with you.

Just because TJ, coaches, and other players say TJ is progressing, really doesn't mean he is.
What would you expect them to say when asked, "How is TJ coming along?"? TJ has been given the job, so they might as well show confidence in him.
I would expect nothing else and would hate it if they didn't.
But it doesn't make it true.

Until I see TJ play, I'm only going to hope.

jargomcfargo
05-30-2008, 04:14 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


The 49ers played some tuff run defense in that game but Tarvaris also made them pay with a perfect pass to Furgy on a CB blitz that he read and beat. He also had zero INT's, protecting the ball is huge.

The Redskins game was a bad game for alot of players, most notably Tarvaris, it was National Televised game and the guys around him didn't exactly help him out. I was really bumbed that Rice was injured and he had Wade and Furgy on the outside against a top defense. The OLine played like sh*t and we suffered, both in the run game and pass game. Tarvaris didn't help matters and made bad passes while under pressure. Our Dline couldn't touch Todd Collins and he had day to pick upart our DB's and LB's, even then we played fairly solid but given pressure I think we would have won that game regardless of poor offensive play. Pointing the finger at anyone player in this game would be a mistake.

To the fool who has no confidence in Bernard Berrian is just that, a fool. He thinks Bernard is here just to go deep, this is very incorrect. If he was to go back and watch Berrians play he would understand why his now a Viking. He has very solid speed, runs a nice route and gets good seperation. He didn't produce 71 long bombs, he's a West Coast guy that is willing to go over the middle and do the intermediate shorter routes. He's still young and will improve his routes even more, he has great ball skills and body control. IMO he is a complete wide reciever and not one dimensional. Same goes for a number of WR's on our roster, Rice doesn't have great speed but he is a threat downfield. I have alot of confidence with the guys we have here, the one thing I worry about is continuety and timing, next year should be even better. By then Allison or Jaymar Johnson should have Bobby's job.


Fool comments aside, excellent post.
I contend Childress will get smarter and smarter as his players get better and better.
As Bud Grant always said. Players make the coach.
This team was almost a playoff team last year.
There has been an upgrade at several positions.
I expect another season or two of aquisitions and experience to reach the top tier of NFL teams.
But this team is on the way.
This years challenge will be spreading out the opposing defense to improve straight up blocking and develop the short/intermediate pass game. It will happen. Then this team will be a fearsome opponant to any other team.

kevoncox
05-30-2008, 04:18 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Ok, I think this is the time to bring this up. This has been bothering me since November 2007. I sometimes feel that I am the only one who saw this, too.

I am talking about the 49er game:

- Up to that point: AP was ripping apart defenses, and D-coordinators had no answers to it.

- The SF game changed everything: the Niners stacked the "box", forcing us to pass, and we couldn't. There were no lanes to run in, and AP was completely stuffed.

Every team we played after that watched what the Niners did to us that game and copied it. And the thing that bothers me is that Chilly and his coaches had - apparently - no answer for it.

My major concern going into 2008: this will continue. We will see 8 and even 9 defenders in the box, with no lanes for AP, and single coverage on our WRs, and we won't move the chains.

Am I the only one who sees this ? Please wake me up and tell me this was all a nightmare.

Do you honestly believe that game was the first game that we started to see 8 and 9 man fronts?

Go back and use youtube.
You will find that as AD started to become a known threat 8 man fronts were pretty common.

As for waking you up, I've been trying for some time now but you just aren't listening.

Go ahead, relent, get on the Happy Happy Joy Joy Bandwagon my friend.
Life will be simpler.
;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48dMlT27v8

marr,
It's not the first time we saw 8 - 9 man fronts. However, even you must relent that somethign changed. I don't beleive it to be that AD wore down. I think teams aressively started to take him out of the game specifically. They locked on to him. That's why taking him out on passing plays was like saying it's a pass.
Teams didn't have to respect CT like AD due to the difference in speed and power. I still don't see how you don't understand how foolish this was for our coaching staff to do.

bleedpurple
05-30-2008, 04:18 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...

Give me your dream scenario for what should have happened in the offseason to fix the WR corp to include CAP implications to sign all the Vets your gonna mention.

Maybe, just maybe, in the real world, your plan won't work.

Face it my friend, our offense was lacking last year in the area of passing and most of it was centered on 3 things...

a.
T-will.
b.
TJ
c.
OL protection.

T-will is gone.
BB will provide the production we didn't get out of that guy.

TJ for cripes sake was learning on the field last year.
Why can't you come to grips with that fact.
He will read defenses better, he will throw the ball on target to WR's in stride this year and our passing will be better because of the reps/experience he got last year.

OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


Your funny sometimes!!..

I would have signed Hackett instead of Ferg... He would have taken a 1 or 2yr deal from us.. and we didn't have to break the bank on him.. he took a low ball offer from Carolina.. or signed him and Ferg and we wouldn't have had to draft Jaymar..

i'm not sure what your deal is about adjustments or lack thereof... i know you think (and you do to and extent) you know alot about football and that your word is LAW... (I do to by the way, unless convinced otherwise..)... but the fact remains that anybody with a brain that watched any of those games would know that we didn't make adjustments and that our coaches don't always put our players in the best situation to be successful.. and i have proof..

In the skins game, Chilly admitted we stuck with the run tooo long!...

AP, said, we should have gotten him in space more often by throwing to him, and Bevell (i think) backed this up by saying he would try to incorporate that more into the scheme this year..

Furthermore, i don't see how in the hell saying our coaches don't make adjustments is a cliche'.

Clearly we all know Chilly can be stubborn, so as i said in a post last year.. if Chilly thinks his offense is KAO.. then obviously, it would make sense that he thinks the game plan he came up with prior to the game would work no matter what the defense does against him...

But as you can see, that's not always the reason or what actually happens.. Hence: the 9ers, skins, bronco's and bears game.. they did very similar things against us..and it wasn't only putting 8-9 in the box, it was blitzing safeties, corners, and LB's in running gaps on situations where AP was in the game...

So, for you to say that's cliche is just stupid to me..

Additionally, I freakin know TJ was learning on the field.. c'mon Marr give me more credit than that, and i have always backed TJ... but my point is, our receiving core was also kinda crappy last year and by just signing BB, so a woeful passing game, i just think we could have upgraded a little more to help TJ out even more this year...

If i recall you even supported the claim that it would have been nice to get Hackett. so what are you talking about!!...

and i agree some of the problems were the OL, however, seeing as how we didn't do anything in the offseason to substantially upgrade the OL, this year ( besides bring in a few undrafted FA's) even with McKinnie's suspension looming... another wr threat sure would come in handy....

so marr.. what is it that the rest of yall are seeing...????

I agree on a lot of those points.. but i just find it kinda ridiculous and juvenile that you would even say something like that, I think you should get your head out your arse and see what most ppl see in that CHilly and Bevell need to be more flexible when it comes to playcalling and taking advantage of the defenses weaknesses with creative thinking, even if that meant putting their weakness against our weakness.. sometimes that could end up being a strength..!!

and if you read my entire post.. i did include and describe an adjustment that they should and could have implemented!!!... I said when they stacked the box, with AP in the game, send in 3 wr's with AP in the game and spread'em out and run the ball or throw it!!.. Give TJ two plays to go to the line of scrimmage and call one of them... but your soo worried and got all excited about ppl using cliche's that you failed to read that statement...

your still my dogg tho!!.. but i swear you frustrate the HELL out of me sometimes!!! ;D
should make for a very entertaing pre-season Ravens game!!!lol

kevoncox
05-30-2008, 04:23 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...

Give me your dream scenario for what should have happened in the offseason to fix the WR corp to include CAP implications to sign all the Vets your gonna mention.

Maybe, just maybe, in the real world, your plan won't work.

Face it my friend, our offense was lacking last year in the area of passing and most of it was centered on 3 things...

a.
T-will.
b.
TJ
c.
OL protection.

T-will is gone.
BB will provide the production we didn't get out of that guy.

TJ for cripes sake was learning on the field last year.
Why can't you come to grips with that fact.
He will read defenses better, he will throw the ball on target to WR's in stride this year and our passing will be better because of the reps/experience he got last year.

OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


I don't understand the TWILL hate? It's not his fault our WR was poor. If he sucked so much and we had a better option on the bench...Why didn't we play them? Exactly. So change TWILL to WRs and you may have something
;D

jessejames09
05-30-2008, 04:43 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...

Give me your dream scenario for what should have happened in the offseason to fix the WR corp to include CAP implications to sign all the Vets your gonna mention.

Maybe, just maybe, in the real world, your plan won't work.

Face it my friend, our offense was lacking last year in the area of passing and most of it was centered on 3 things...

a.
T-will.
b.
TJ
c.
OL protection.

T-will is gone.
BB will provide the production we didn't get out of that guy.

TJ for cripes sake was learning on the field last year.
Why can't you come to grips with that fact.
He will read defenses better, he will throw the ball on target to WR's in stride this year and our passing will be better because of the reps/experience he got last year.

OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


I don't understand the TWILL hate? It's not his fault our WR was poor. If he sucked so much and we had a better option on the bench...Why didn't we play them? Exactly. So change TWILL to WRs and you may have something
;D


He went from starter and worked his way down to nothing 2 years in a row.

We did use our bench, we just gave Troy every chance we could to prove himself, and he failed.

StillPurple
05-30-2008, 04:46 PM
Well, we have some differing views of what happened. Which if fine. We don't all need to agree and to be frank, this site would be boring if we did...

I do think that most if not all of us agree, though, that the offense kind of hit some kind of "wall" in games 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16 of last year.

To me, we didn't seem like the same team. And I agree with bleedpurple here, that our coaching staff didn't adjust. I would have hoped, for instance, in the Washington game, that an assistant coach might have radioed in: "Brad, they are stacking the box again, we need to go screen pass to AP", or something. We only started to throw the screen VERY late in that game, and only then did we generate some offense.

Maybe we need an "Assistant Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator", like the Redskins have (I am only half kidding here).
;D I forget what they call it, but in essence, they have a guy who is a "consultant", who just stands there and, as I understand it, second-guesses everything their head coach does. It seems ridiculous and lame, but hey, maybe it is not that bad of an idea ! :-\

I sometimes think that head coaches get too "locked" into their concept for a game. That is what happened to Mike Martz vs. the Patriots in the Super Bowl. He got locked into his game plan too much and refused to adjust. The assistants even begged him to adjust, and his response was "F----- it, we got this far with this, we will continue doing it". I don't really understand the psychology of that, but it does happen.

V-Unit
05-30-2008, 05:01 PM
At some point in the Childress era us fans are just going to have to accept that we are not a flashy team. Our basic strategy to is play ball control offense and stifling defense. It is still a work in progress.

On offesne, you will see more conservative playcalling, while hoping to hit a few home runs with AD, and now Berrian.
On defense you will see dedication to stopping the run, and a pass defense which bends but doesn't break. Creating turnovers is huge in our defense.
We can win games by doing this. We can win a lot of games by doing this. We simply need better execution from the players.

I don't neccessarily agree with it, but I accept it.

kevoncox
05-30-2008, 05:33 PM
"V" wrote:


At some point in the Childress era us fans are just going to have to accept that we are not a flashy team. Our basic strategy to is play ball control offense and stifling defense. It is still a work in progress.

On offesne, you will see more conservative playcalling, while hoping to hit a few home runs with AD, and now Berrian.
On defense you will see dedication to stopping the run, and a pass defense which bends but doesn't break. Creating turnovers is huge in our defense.
We can win games by doing this. We can win a lot of games by doing this. We simply need better execution from the players.

I don't neccessarily agree with it, but I accept it.



What does flashy have to do with anything? Make adjustments. It's simple football. You can't keep running your head into a brick wall. You must adjust. Good teams adjust bad teams loose games because of poor adjustments. To leave all blame on the players is silly/fooolish. Honestly, could a coach in his 2nd year not be perfect? Is Childress the Jesus of coaching? Can he not make a sin

StillPurple
05-30-2008, 05:53 PM
I just think that football is also about "taking what the defense gives you" (another cliche, I know, but still true...).

If the defense takes all your running lanes away, to me, you have to then throw, and you have single coverage, which you should be able to exploit.

kevoncox
05-30-2008, 06:09 PM
"V" wrote:


At some point in the Childress era us fans are just going to have to accept that we are not a flashy team. Our basic strategy to is play ball control offense and stifling defense. It is still a work in progress.

On offesne, you will see more conservative playcalling, while hoping to hit a few home runs with AD, and now Berrian.
On defense you will see dedication to stopping the run, and a pass defense which bends but doesn't break. Creating turnovers is huge in our defense.
We can win games by doing this. We can win a lot of games by doing this. We simply need better execution from the players.

I don't neccessarily agree with it, but I accept it.



What happenes when we meet a defense as good as ours and they have a better balance on offense? Wait,i think last season answered that question.

singersp
05-30-2008, 07:13 PM
"MarrdrotheBest" wrote:



OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


Literally hundreds of snaps & pre-reads made by Birk last year & you are still agonizing & dwelling on the couple of them (less than 1%) he got wrong like it was the norm.

Talk about having your head in the "I hate him drum".

;D

Purple Floyd
05-30-2008, 07:18 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"MarrdrotheBest" wrote:



OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


Literally hundreds of snaps & pre-reads made by Birk last year & you are still agonizing & dwelling on the couple of them (less than 1%) he got wrong like it was the norm.

Talk about having your head in the "I hate him drum".

;D

lol

VikingsTw
05-30-2008, 08:07 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


The 49ers played some tuff run defense in that game but Tarvaris also made them pay with a perfect pass to Furgy on a CB blitz that he read and beat. He also had zero INT's, protecting the ball is huge.

The Redskins game was a bad game for alot of players, most notably Tarvaris, it was National Televised game and the guys around him didn't exactly help him out. I was really bumbed that Rice was injured and he had Wade and Furgy on the outside against a top defense. The OLine played like sh*t and we suffered, both in the run game and pass game. Tarvaris didn't help matters and made bad passes while under pressure. Our Dline couldn't touch Todd Collins and he had day to pick upart our DB's and LB's, even then we played fairly solid but given pressure I think we would have won that game regardless of poor offensive play. Pointing the finger at anyone player in this game would be a mistake.

To the fool who has no confidence in Bernard Berrian is just that, a fool. He thinks Bernard is here just to go deep, this is very incorrect. If he was to go back and watch Berrians play he would understand why his now a Viking. He has very solid speed, runs a nice route and gets good seperation. He didn't produce 71 long bombs, he's a West Coast guy that is willing to go over the middle and do the intermediate shorter routes. He's still young and will improve his routes even more, he has great ball skills and body control. IMO he is a complete wide reciever and not one dimensional. Same goes for a number of WR's on our roster, Rice doesn't have great speed but he is a threat downfield. I have alot of confidence with the guys we have here, the one thing I worry about is continuety and timing, next year should be even better. By then Allison or Jaymar Johnson should have Bobby's job.


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...


One of the biggest issues with this post is the falure to mention Sidney Rice. IMO he is the best WR we have on our team. IMO he is a Pro Bowl Caliber football player and would have been the first WR off the board in the 08 draft. I expect big things from him and hope he stays healthy. There is no reason he can't have double digit TD's this season, he's that good, he had 4 last year and he hardly played, 6 more is nothing playing full time and more experience with Tarvaris.

I think its important to factor in more than just getting Bernard Berrian, football is a complex team sport and each unit will have more experience this upcoming season. If McKinnie doesn't get suspended we return with the same offensive line as last year. This is huge as we saw the jump from Childress's first year to last year, this years improvement should be even better. AP will no longer be a rookie, nor will Sidney Rice and Andre Allison who I believe should be #3. Tarvaris has his first full season out of the way and is working hard to improve, there's alot to consider other than just getting Berrian to improve our offense. Shancoe is another guy who should play better, he showed he's capable of making plays, this will be his second year in the offense.

kevoncox
05-30-2008, 08:15 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


The 49ers played some tuff run defense in that game but Tarvaris also made them pay with a perfect pass to Furgy on a CB blitz that he read and beat. He also had zero INT's, protecting the ball is huge.

The Redskins game was a bad game for alot of players, most notably Tarvaris, it was National Televised game and the guys around him didn't exactly help him out. I was really bumbed that Rice was injured and he had Wade and Furgy on the outside against a top defense. The OLine played like sh*t and we suffered, both in the run game and pass game. Tarvaris didn't help matters and made bad passes while under pressure. Our Dline couldn't touch Todd Collins and he had day to pick upart our DB's and LB's, even then we played fairly solid but given pressure I think we would have won that game regardless of poor offensive play. Pointing the finger at anyone player in this game would be a mistake.

To the fool who has no confidence in Bernard Berrian is just that, a fool. He thinks Bernard is here just to go deep, this is very incorrect. If he was to go back and watch Berrians play he would understand why his now a Viking. He has very solid speed, runs a nice route and gets good seperation. He didn't produce 71 long bombs, he's a West Coast guy that is willing to go over the middle and do the intermediate shorter routes. He's still young and will improve his routes even more, he has great ball skills and body control. IMO he is a complete wide reciever and not one dimensional. Same goes for a number of WR's on our roster, Rice doesn't have great speed but he is a threat downfield. I have alot of confidence with the guys we have here, the one thing I worry about is continuety and timing, next year should be even better. By then Allison or Jaymar Johnson should have Bobby's job.


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...


One of the biggest issues with this post is the falure to mention Sidney Rice. IMO he is the best WR we have on our team. IMO he is a Pro Bowl Caliber football player and would have been the first WR off the board in the 08 draft. I expect big things from him and hope he stays healthy. There is no reason he can't have double digit TD's this season, he's that good, he had 4 last year and he hardly played, 6 more is nothing playing full time and more experience with Tarvaris.

I think its important to factor in more than just getting Bernard Berrian, football is a complex team sport and each unit will have more experience this upcoming season. If McKinnie doesn't get suspended we return with the same offensive line as last year. This is huge as we saw the jump from Childress's first year to last year, this years improvement should be even better. AP will no longer be a rookie, nor will Sidney Rice and Andre Allison who I believe should be #3. Tarvaris has his first full season out of the way and is working hard to improve, there's alot to consider other than just getting Berrian to improve our offense. Shancoe is another guy who should play better, he showed he's capable of making plays, this will be his second year in the offense.




We are putting him up too high...At the end of the day he is a 2nd year wr who had 344 and 4 tds the year before. He is not a probowler...no matter how much purple kool aid/ and purple shades we drink/wear. He has a lot to do to beat out Fits, boldwin, TO, Roy Williams, Moss, Plax, Smith, Gallaway, Colston, Branch, Holt, Driver, and company. Heck I just names about 15 guys i would take over him. He's good but Hes not great yet....

VikingsTw
05-30-2008, 08:16 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


The 49ers played some tuff run defense in that game but Tarvaris also made them pay with a perfect pass to Furgy on a CB blitz that he read and beat. He also had zero INT's, protecting the ball is huge.

The Redskins game was a bad game for alot of players, most notably Tarvaris, it was National Televised game and the guys around him didn't exactly help him out. I was really bumbed that Rice was injured and he had Wade and Furgy on the outside against a top defense. The OLine played like sh*t and we suffered, both in the run game and pass game. Tarvaris didn't help matters and made bad passes while under pressure. Our Dline couldn't touch Todd Collins and he had day to pick upart our DB's and LB's, even then we played fairly solid but given pressure I think we would have won that game regardless of poor offensive play. Pointing the finger at anyone player in this game would be a mistake.

To the fool who has no confidence in Bernard Berrian is just that, a fool. He thinks Bernard is here just to go deep, this is very incorrect. If he was to go back and watch Berrians play he would understand why his now a Viking. He has very solid speed, runs a nice route and gets good seperation. He didn't produce 71 long bombs, he's a West Coast guy that is willing to go over the middle and do the intermediate shorter routes. He's still young and will improve his routes even more, he has great ball skills and body control. IMO he is a complete wide reciever and not one dimensional. Same goes for a number of WR's on our roster, Rice doesn't have great speed but he is a threat downfield. I have alot of confidence with the guys we have here, the one thing I worry about is continuety and timing, next year should be even better. By then Allison or Jaymar Johnson should have Bobby's job.


N ot sure if you are talking about me here but I will defend myself nevertheless. I never siad I don't have confidence in BB. I do. However, he is a better version of Greg Jennings of the Packs. Yes he can work the middle but BB is more of a burner working the deep crossing patterns than the intermeddiate routes. If you saw any ears games last year, you would see that most of his catches came on the long ball. They weren't allways homerun threats but they were well above the NFL average of 6 yards a pass.
My point is the belief of this board is that if teams are stacking the box we will go "up top to BB". That's not going to happen. I have already pointed out where in the field we must target. TJ must be able to locate the hole in the defenses. With the added pressue the 2nd level of the defense will be like swiss cheese. There will be huge holes but defenses will try to cover them by jumping in and out of these zones. It TJ locks on to a WR like he did last year. He will get picked. If our WRs don't get seperation( BB or who ever) we will struggle. Like I said, the deep ball will not be there, the middle will be. A smart team will use their Burner to push the Deep 3 back and open up the window for our other WRs.


I'm not gonna get into it with you but I've heard these type of comments from your posts. "Bernard Berrian ain't gonna do sh*t" But I am glad you are coming to the conclusion that he is a complete player. He will do what we ask, he will run shallow routes, deep routes and gain speration. If the deep ball is not there it pretty much means there are 7 guys in the box and we will take advantage of that all day long with AP. If they decide to stack the box we will go up top. What makes you thank otherwise? One of the most important factors here will be the pass protection to get downfield, will AP pick up his assignment, will Cook, Birk and McKinnie hold there ground in pass protection? I can't wait till teams start playing straight up, we will see alot more AP in the passing game underneath, its gonna be fun.

VikingsTw
05-30-2008, 08:22 PM
"gagarr" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...

Give me your dream scenario for what should have happened in the offseason to fix the WR corp to include CAP implications to sign all the Vets your gonna mention.

Maybe, just maybe, in the real world, your plan won't work.

Face it my friend, our offense was lacking last year in the area of passing and most of it was centered on 3 things...

a.
T-will.
b.
TJ
c.
OL protection.

T-will is gone.
BB will provide the production we didn't get out of that guy.

TJ for cripes sake was learning on the field last year.
Why can't you come to grips with that fact.
He will read defenses better, he will throw the ball on target to WR's in stride this year and our passing will be better because of the reps/experience he got last year.

OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


Marrdro, all you need to do is replace the "will"s with "should"s and I'll agree with you.

Just because TJ, coaches, and other players say TJ is progressing, really doesn't mean he is.
What would you expect them to say when asked, "How is TJ coming along?"? TJ has been given the job, so they might as well show confidence in him.
I would expect nothing else and would hate it if they didn't.
But it doesn't make it true.

Until I see TJ play, I'm only going to hope.



You make a good point about the team being behind him and they should for good reason. But IMO he is improving, he improved from early season to late season, what makes you thank he won't improve this season? Given better WR options, coaching, and work ethic its coming along.

I also think it is important to listen or watch his early interviews as a rookie and second year player then look at the ones as of late, IMO its night and day with his demenore and confidence. He's far more comfortable which will lead to better play on the field. We can win alot of games this year with him at QB, especailly with the upgrades we have made.

VikingsTw
05-30-2008, 08:41 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


The 49ers played some tuff run defense in that game but Tarvaris also made them pay with a perfect pass to Furgy on a CB blitz that he read and beat. He also had zero INT's, protecting the ball is huge.

The Redskins game was a bad game for alot of players, most notably Tarvaris, it was National Televised game and the guys around him didn't exactly help him out. I was really bumbed that Rice was injured and he had Wade and Furgy on the outside against a top defense. The OLine played like sh*t and we suffered, both in the run game and pass game. Tarvaris didn't help matters and made bad passes while under pressure. Our Dline couldn't touch Todd Collins and he had day to pick upart our DB's and LB's, even then we played fairly solid but given pressure I think we would have won that game regardless of poor offensive play. Pointing the finger at anyone player in this game would be a mistake.

To the fool who has no confidence in Bernard Berrian is just that, a fool. He thinks Bernard is here just to go deep, this is very incorrect. If he was to go back and watch Berrians play he would understand why his now a Viking. He has very solid speed, runs a nice route and gets good seperation. He didn't produce 71 long bombs, he's a West Coast guy that is willing to go over the middle and do the intermediate shorter routes. He's still young and will improve his routes even more, he has great ball skills and body control. IMO he is a complete wide reciever and not one dimensional. Same goes for a number of WR's on our roster, Rice doesn't have great speed but he is a threat downfield. I have alot of confidence with the guys we have here, the one thing I worry about is continuety and timing, next year should be even better. By then Allison or Jaymar Johnson should have Bobby's job.


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...


One of the biggest issues with this post is the falure to mention Sidney Rice. IMO he is the best WR we have on our team. IMO he is a Pro Bowl Caliber football player and would have been the first WR off the board in the 08 draft. I expect big things from him and hope he stays healthy. There is no reason he can't have double digit TD's this season, he's that good, he had 4 last year and he hardly played, 6 more is nothing playing full time and more experience with Tarvaris.

I think its important to factor in more than just getting Bernard Berrian, football is a complex team sport and each unit will have more experience this upcoming season. If McKinnie doesn't get suspended we return with the same offensive line as last year. This is huge as we saw the jump from Childress's first year to last year, this years improvement should be even better. AP will no longer be a rookie, nor will Sidney Rice and Andre Allison who I believe should be #3. Tarvaris has his first full season out of the way and is working hard to improve, there's alot to consider other than just getting Berrian to improve our offense. Shancoe is another guy who should play better, he showed he's capable of making plays, this will be his second year in the offense.




We are putting him up too high...At the end of the day he is a 2nd year wr who had 344 and 4 tds the year before. He is not a probowler...no matter how much purple kool aid/ and purple shades we drink/wear. He has a lot to do to beat out Fits, boldwin, TO, Roy Williams, Moss, Plax, Smith, Gallaway, Colston, Branch, Holt, Driver, and company. Heck I just names about 15 guys i would take over him. He's good but Hes not great yet....


He's Pro Bowl Caliber Kevin, this means he has the potential. At the end of the day we got a WR that made very nice plays when in the game, his time was limited due to him being a rookie and injuries. I don't need Kool laid I'll lay out the honest truth, its not worth it to make usumption because I WISH them to be true. I WISH Birk was still a Pro Bowl Center but he's not. I WISH McKinnie was a dominant pass blocker but he's not. We'll see what happens I have my expectations for him and they are high because he can do it, health will be the key factor. IMO it will be very difficult for Sidney to beat the numbers of many WR's. We play a style of offense that includes ball control, short passing game and pounding the football. It will also be difficult to beat those guys out just based on there names. Pro Bowl votes are very inaccurate, EJ Henderson was a Pro Bowl player last year and he was robbed, Winfield has been and Pro Bowl palyer and
he was robbed.

Nobody said he was great yet, but I do believe we will be seeing it. It's always easier to go with the obvious then to integrate and make a prediction.

gregair13
05-30-2008, 09:35 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


He's Pro Bowl caliber, this means he has the potential.

This.
its the offseason. everything is potential right now. we are under 100 days till kick off tho...


and on topic, whatever is was in the first place, 49ers have, in my opinion one of the best, if not the best, linebacker in the league on their team. a linebacker that can tackle AP one on one in the open field. not many can do that.

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 09:36 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"MarrdrotheBest" wrote:



OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


Literally hundreds of snaps & pre-reads made by Birk last year & you are still agonizing & dwelling on the couple of them (less than 1%) he got wrong like it was the norm.

Talk about having your head in the "I hate him drum".

;D




Strange, you are sticking up for this slacker more than you did with Memo and Smoot.
;D

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 09:43 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Ok, I think this is the time to bring this up. This has been bothering me since November 2007. I sometimes feel that I am the only one who saw this, too.

I am talking about the 49er game:

- Up to that point: AP was ripping apart defenses, and D-coordinators had no answers to it.

- The SF game changed everything: the Niners stacked the "box", forcing us to pass, and we couldn't. There were no lanes to run in, and AP was completely stuffed.

Every team we played after that watched what the Niners did to us that game and copied it. And the thing that bothers me is that Chilly and his coaches had - apparently - no answer for it.

My major concern going into 2008: this will continue. We will see 8 and even 9 defenders in the box, with no lanes for AP, and single coverage on our WRs, and we won't move the chains.

Am I the only one who sees this ? Please wake me up and tell me this was all a nightmare.

Do you honestly believe that game was the first game that we started to see 8 and 9 man fronts?

Go back and use youtube.
You will find that as AD started to become a known threat 8 man fronts were pretty common.

As for waking you up, I've been trying for some time now but you just aren't listening.

Go ahead, relent, get on the Happy Happy Joy Joy Bandwagon my friend.
Life will be simpler.
;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48dMlT27v8

marr,
It's not the first time we saw 8 - 9 man fronts. However, even you must relent that somethign changed. I don't beleive it to be that AD wore down. I think teams aressively started to take him out of the game specifically. They locked on to him. That's why taking him out on passing plays was like saying it's a pass.
Teams didn't have to respect CT like AD due to the difference in speed and power. I still don't see how you don't understand how foolish this was for our coaching staff to do.

A knee injury probably had something to do with it.

Again, youtube is a great thing.
Go look at all the highlights they have on AD.
A heck of alot of those long runs were against teams with 8 man fronts.

All that aside, I have never once said that we didn't have issues last year.
Infact I take alot of heat when I point a few of them out (OL pass blocking).
My arguement has always been that I assume that those bugs will be ironed out as the line gets synched in the pass blocking scheme and TJ gets better at reading defenses and makes quicker/smarter decisions with the ball.

Again, back to the original post.
His assesment has been/and appears to always be that nothing is gonna change or get better and we are always gonna suck because of TJ and the Coaching staff (specifically the Chiller).
Any man with half a mind can see that things were getting better last year in alot of areas.
The areas that didn't were addressed in the offseason.

That, along with the youngsters maturations process should be enough this year in my book to take off the hate shades and put on the happy shades.

;D

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 09:49 PM
"gagarr" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...

Give me your dream scenario for what should have happened in the offseason to fix the WR corp to include CAP implications to sign all the Vets your gonna mention.

Maybe, just maybe, in the real world, your plan won't work.

Face it my friend, our offense was lacking last year in the area of passing and most of it was centered on 3 things...

a.
T-will.
b.
TJ
c.
OL protection.

T-will is gone.
BB will provide the production we didn't get out of that guy.

TJ for cripes sake was learning on the field last year.
Why can't you come to grips with that fact.
He will read defenses better, he will throw the ball on target to WR's in stride this year and our passing will be better because of the reps/experience he got last year.

OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


Marrdro, all you need to do is replace the "will"s with "should"s and I'll agree with you.

Just because TJ, coaches, and other players say TJ is progressing, really doesn't mean he is.
What would you expect them to say when asked, "How is TJ coming along?"? TJ has been given the job, so they might as well show confidence in him.
I would expect nothing else and would hate it if they didn't.
But it doesn't make it true.

Until I see TJ play, I'm only going to hope.


One of my failings in life is I am a eternal optimist so I am always hopefull.

Seriously though my friend.
You have to admit that it goes above all that is right in the world to believe that a NFL coaching staff, NFL front office and a Ownership group the likes of which we have would settle on a guy that was gonna fail.

Will he have issues this year?
I have always said yes to that.
Will he play better this year than he did last year?
I have gotten on that bandwagon shortly after the Denver game.

Again, to sit here and honestly believe that he isn't progressing and to think the organization would still back him is simply beyond comprehension in my book.

That is why I believe it is true.
;D

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 10:14 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


Your funny sometimes!!..


Finally, someone that thinks I'm funny.
I'm showing this to Wildwoman as she still says I have a sense of humor like a bent pooh can.

;D


I would have signed Hackett instead of Ferg... He would have taken a 1 or 2yr deal from us.. and we didn't have to break the bank on him.. he took a low ball offer from Carolina.. or signed him and Ferg and we wouldn't have had to draft Jaymar..

Why, even though I like Hackett, he would still be a short term fix just like Ferg is and Ferg knows the scheme.
If you know as much as you say you do, you must admit that Ferg will be more effective this year cause he knows the system.

By the way, I think that BB will be productive, but I worry about his ability to adapt as well.
Remember what Gus said about the scheme and how different it is what with all the terminalogy.

You failed in your endevour to convince me.
Nice try though as I am a Hackett fan.


i'm not sure what your deal is about adjustments or lack thereof... i know you think (and you do to and extent) you know alot about football and that your word is LAW... (I do to by the way, unless convinced otherwise..)... but the fact remains that anybody with a brain that watched any of those games would know that we didn't make adjustments and that our coaches don't always put our players in the best situation to be successful.. and i have proof..

My deal with adjustments is everyone sits out there and uses it as a cliche' and don't have the faintest idea what a adjustment is.

Additionally, even if they do they don't seem to then take it to the next step and look at the players and thier ability to make those adjustments.
Lets not forget the big wild card in all of this is that we had a very young/raw QB on the field.
That alone would cause any Ocord/HC to hesitate from trying to do anything fancy.


In the skins game, Chilly admitted we stuck with the run tooo long!...

Who was gonna throw it and who was gonna catch it?


AP, said, we should have gotten him in space more often by throwing to him, and Bevell (i think) backed this up by saying he would try to incorporate that more into the scheme this year..

Believe it or not, it takes time to setup a screen and it also takes a OL that knows what they hell they are doing to set one up.

Go back and watch the screens we did run.
TJ almost got killed in all of them. I suppose you know that of course and factored that into the ability of making that adjustment and executing it.


Furthermore, i don't see how in the hell saying our coaches don't make adjustments is a cliche'.

It is when you don't put anything behind it.


Clearly we all know Chilly can be stubborn, so as i said in a post last year.. if Chilly thinks his offense is KAO.. then obviously, it would make sense that he thinks the game plan he came up with prior to the game would work no matter what the defense does against him...

No it isn't clear to me.
Enlighten me.
Give me evidence.
By the way, that is one of the biggest baddest cliche's out there with respect to the Chiller.
;D

Again, because you know so much, I am sure you are taking out the ability of the players to execute said schemes into your analysis.
I have and I say we say a vanilla version of the KAO just because the team was limited in what they could do.

Wait, I suppose you believe they had no limitations.


But as you can see, that's not always the reason or what actually happens.. Hence: the 9ers, skins, bronco's and bears game.. they did very similar things against us..and it wasn't only putting 8-9 in the box, it was blitzing safeties, corners, and LB's in running gaps on situations where AP was in the game...

Wonder why they did that stuff?
Cause our OL couldn't stop it.
I suppose you want them to run a screen with that kindof blitz pattern coming against us?

Or maybe you wanted the QB to throw a deep ball?


I wouldn't think that as I saw how much time our QB had to actually get rid of the ball last year.
I am sure that you are knowledgable enough to know that he didn't.
Probably why that adjustment didn't happen ya think?



So, for you to say that's cliche is just stupid to me..

Sorry you feel that way.



Additionally, I freakin know TJ was learning on the field.. c'mon Marr give me more credit than that, and i have always backed TJ... but my point is, our receiving core was also kinda crappy last year and by just signing BB, so a woeful passing game, i just think we could have upgraded a little more to help TJ out even more this year...

If i recall you even supported the claim that it would have been nice to get Hackett. so what are you talking about!!...

and i agree some of the problems were the OL, however, seeing as how we didn't do anything in the offseason to substantially upgrade the OL, this year ( besides bring in a few undrafted FA's) even with McKinnie's suspension looming... another wr threat sure would come in handy....

Hey, that sounds like something I kindof just typed.

;D


so marr.. what is it that the rest of yall are seeing...????

I agree on a lot of those points.. but i just find it kinda ridiculous and juvenile that you would even say something like that, I think you should get your head out your arse and see what most ppl see in that CHilly and Bevell need to be more flexible when it comes to playcalling and taking advantage of the defenses weaknesses with creative thinking, even if that meant putting their weakness against our weakness.. sometimes that could end up being a strength..!!
LOL, get my head out of my arse huh.

Your just trying to crack me up now.

Maybe I need to start a poll again to show you that you are in the minority here on this.
There are a heck of alot more posters on here that think along the lines of me in the fact that the play calling was limited last year, not because the coach has a hard head and won't adjust but rather he was limited in what he could do.

In short, you need to be able to exploit that weakness.
Last year we couldn't because of poor OL play (Pass blocking), a raw QB who couldn't get through his reads, and WR's who dropped the ball.

This year TJ's ability to read defenses will help, the OL will gel abit more allowing for him to make a few more reads than one and we have a new WR who gives us what T-will couldn't and two young WR's who will also show improvement.


and if you read my entire post.. i did include and describe an adjustment that they should and could have implemented!!!... I said when they stacked the box, with AP in the game, send in 3 wr's with AP in the game and spread'em out and run the ball or throw it!!.. Give TJ two plays to go to the line of scrimmage and call one of them... but your soo worried and got all excited about ppl using cliche's that you failed to read that statement...

I read your attempt.
My apologies for finding it not enough.


your still my dogg tho!!.. but i swear you frustrate the HELL out of me sometimes!!! ;D
should make for a very entertaing pre-season Ravens game!!!lol
You said I'm funny so I will always be your dog.

JK, Don't think of it so negatively, these types of discussions are what makes this site great.
If everyone agreed this place would be really boring.

Just cause I don't agree with you doesn't make you wrong and me right.
It just means I don't agree with you.
Keep on trying to convince me.
Maybe, (I doubt it
;D) you will sway me to your way of thinking.

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 10:22 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


I'm not sure if your talking to me or not... but i'll address your fool comment anyway...

NO one said, they don't have confidence in BB... i think he is good, but him alone.. added to what we had last year,
one could argue.. is not gonna make a WR corp that was one of the worst in the league last year, all that much better...

noone doubts that he's not a good player... obviously!!!.. But in terms of upgrades, i just feel we needed more than him... maybe that could be allison, or wade (doubt it) or ferg... but IMO we need ed another weapon in the passing game to help out TJ... if you notice, all of our upgrades, were on defense this year, and our defense was good enough to get us into the playoffs...

on the other hand, our offense was one of the worst (passing games) int he league and all you do is add BB... and we're set???

that's my contention!!!...

I don't doubt that BB can do more than go deep!!.. however, we'll just have to see how much he can improve our pass offense...

Give me your dream scenario for what should have happened in the offseason to fix the WR corp to include CAP implications to sign all the Vets your gonna mention.

Maybe, just maybe, in the real world, your plan won't work.

Face it my friend, our offense was lacking last year in the area of passing and most of it was centered on 3 things...

a.
T-will.
b.
TJ
c.
OL protection.

T-will is gone.
BB will provide the production we didn't get out of that guy.

TJ for cripes sake was learning on the field last year.
Why can't you come to grips with that fact.
He will read defenses better, he will throw the ball on target to WR's in stride this year and our passing will be better because of the reps/experience he got last year.

OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


I don't understand the TWILL hate? It's not his fault our WR was poor. If he sucked so much and we had a better option on the bench...Why didn't we play them? Exactly. So change TWILL to WRs and you may have something
;D

I kindof liked our WR's going into last year.

I felt good that the Nike solution was gonna help ole Blind one and I had confidence in Rice and AA to get some nice reps that will pay dividends this year.

Problems arose when T-will wasn't fixed by Nike, Rice got dinged abit and 8 and 9 man boxes prohibited B-wade (He's gonna be one of your favorite recievers after this year) had to catch the ball in heavy traffic.

Not sold (getting there though) on Ferg but I like what we are gonna run out onto the field this year.
If our OL can give the QB enough time to get through his progressions and TJ can read a defense a bit better/faster this year we will be a pretty balanced offense.

Even though we will still be a boring run first team.
;D

Marrdro
05-30-2008, 10:24 PM
"V" wrote:


At some point in the Childress era us fans are just going to have to accept that we are not a flashy team. Our basic strategy to is play ball control offense and stifling defense. It is still a work in progress.

On offesne, you will see more conservative playcalling, while hoping to hit a few home runs with AD, and now Berrian.
On defense you will see dedication to stopping the run, and a pass defense which bends but doesn't break. Creating turnovers is huge in our defense.
We can win games by doing this. We can win a lot of games by doing this. We simply need better execution from the players.

I don't neccessarily agree with it, but I accept it.


Adequately articulated my friend.
60/40 right.
;D

V-Unit
05-30-2008, 10:37 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"V" wrote:


At some point in the Childress era us fans are just going to have to accept that we are not a flashy team. Our basic strategy to is play ball control offense and stifling defense. It is still a work in progress.

On offesne, you will see more conservative playcalling, while hoping to hit a few home runs with AD, and now Berrian.
On defense you will see dedication to stopping the run, and a pass defense which bends but doesn't break. Creating turnovers is huge in our defense.
We can win games by doing this. We can win a lot of games by doing this. We simply need better execution from the players.

I don't neccessarily agree with it, but I accept it.



What happenes when we meet a defense as good as ours and they have a better balance on offense? Wait,i think last season answered that question.


You mean like San Diego or the Giants?

I think our offensive balance will be better. However, the run game is our strength, we must stick to it as much as possible.

VikingsTw
05-30-2008, 10:58 PM
"V" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


"V" wrote:


At some point in the Childress era us fans are just going to have to accept that we are not a flashy team. Our basic strategy to is play ball control offense and stifling defense. It is still a work in progress.

On offesne, you will see more conservative playcalling, while hoping to hit a few home runs with AD, and now Berrian.
On defense you will see dedication to stopping the run, and a pass defense which bends but doesn't break. Creating turnovers is huge in our defense.
We can win games by doing this. We can win a lot of games by doing this. We simply need better execution from the players.

I don't neccessarily agree with it, but I accept it.



What happenes when we meet a defense as good as ours and they have a better balance on offense? Wait,i think last season answered that question.


You mean like San Diego or the Giants?

I think our offensive balance will be better. However, the run game is our strength, we must stick to it as much as possible.


Neither San Diego of the Giants have a better defense then ours *if* we stay healthy. The Giants sucked early on them came storming in at years end, kinda like the Steelers did the year they won, there success due to good QB pressure. I don't believe the Giants will do it again.

Defense is what wins championships, and if our offensive line decides to manhandle the opponet we will look like one of the most explosive offenses in the league. We beat both those teams last year and we can do it again.

I agree we must stick to the run game, Tavaris will still be coming along and I don't feel comfortable pushing 40 passes per game. We must keep the defense honest though for our running game to be succesfull. Play action fake should be fun to watch this season.

marstc09
05-30-2008, 11:11 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


BB is not going to solve a damn thing. I like the guy and he is a good WR but his skill set won't defeat the defense we are facing. The defenses we are facing are basically giving us this look.

CB



FS



CB


They have the deep ball covered. What is available to us ar hooks, outs, ins, comebacks. We need our savior this year will be Rice, Shank and or Tjack. A burner is going to push the saftey and CBs deep with him. The defense is design to prevent the deep ball. Rice or Shank must develop into a consistant receiving threat. TJ must make the these throws while avoiding the deception of the underneath LBs and fake blitzs. He must make his reads quickly and find what area of the 5-12 yard
box is uncovered.








The 49ers weren't the first team to stack the box. What the 49ers did was run a slight version of spy with their Cbs. They ran what we called an umbrella. It was later ran to perfection by the Skins.
Before the play started the 49ers defense looked like this





S

CB




S

CB

We never adjusted and it's the biggest question mark facing the team. Some of you felt it was DE but I didn't. We have to find away to spread teams out and run the ball. We must now do to teams what they started to do to us since the 06 Pats game. We must get the extra Lbs off the field.



What about the guy who faced the #1 corner last year leading all WRs. He is now in the slot and could be lethal.

singersp
05-31-2008, 08:10 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"MarrdrotheBest" wrote:



OL is another issue.
Lets hope McKinnie isn't gone long and Birk (and TJ) learn how to make pre-snap reads/adjustments better this year.

Long story short, you can keep harping all you want about Coaches and adjustments and TJ and his poohie play but if you would pull your head out of the "I hate them drum" you would see what the rest of us are seeing (with the exception of a couple of guys supporting your mad theories of course
;D)


Literally hundreds of snaps & pre-reads made by Birk last year & you are still agonizing & dwelling on the couple of them (less than 1%) he got wrong like it was the norm.

Talk about having your head in the "I hate him drum".

;D




Strange, you are sticking up for this slacker more than you did with Memo and Smoot.
;D


Slacker my ass. He's probably getting a better workout, better conditioning & into better football shape working with his trainer than he would be standing on the practice field watching Mozes, Sullivan & Mattran snapping balls so the coaches can evaluate them to determine what their strengths & weaknesses are.

voluntary

1 proceeding from the will or from one's own choice or consent
2 unconstrained by interference : self-determining
3 having power of free choice

mountainviking
06-01-2008, 01:16 PM
Berrian isn't the only upgrade!
Moving Wade to the slot is an upgrade.
Another year of experience for Rice and Allison is an upgrade and so is another year in the system for Shank, Wade, and Fergy.
Hmm, did I just have the sudden realization that TWill was our ONLY returning WR last year!?!!
D'oh!!!
Hmm, wonder what that had to do with dropped passes, bad timing, wrong routes ran and "gelling with the QB."
This year, we have 4 out of 5 returning (most likely.)
And, we have guys in place to help the learning curves of our new guys.

We have a big, expensive OL that has only shown flashes of being as dominant as their paychecks.
We have a young QB and a young superstar RB who made mistakes last year, but once again, should be better this year.
We were pulling AP out on passing downs because he wasn't picking up the blitzes like CT!
I'm sure there were plenty of times where our coaches would have rather had AP in there, IF he was ready!

I just counted 17 players who I expect to (or at least have a very good chance) make the final 53 man roster who will be entering their 3rd year or less...in other words, players with only 1 or 2 years of NFL playing experience.
This doesn't even include our rookies, and I fully expect Tyrell "tornado" Johnson and Booty to be on the active list too...maybe even Guion, Sullivan and/or JJ.
Lets say, three of our picks make the final cut...that is 20 players with less than 3 years experience at the start of this season, or 37.7% of our TEAM!!!

So, annoying as it may be, we're stuck watching the learning curves of over a third of our team!
On the other hand, I really like the potential we've got in those players, and it looks to me, that our MN Vikings are pretty set up for the foreseeable future!
Even if we somehow tank this year (or more likely, Just Miss the playoffs-or-get killed week1 of them), I'd expect us to start really dominating games in the next one and for a few after that!
Purple Shades On
8)


BAAAAWHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Be afraid NFL...the vikings are coming...the Vikings are Coming...the VIKINGS are Coming!!!

bleedpurple
06-02-2008, 01:02 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


Your funny sometimes!!..



Finally, someone that thinks I'm funny.
I'm showing this to Wildwoman as she still says I have a sense of humor like a bent pooh can.
;D


I would have signed Hackett instead of Ferg... He would have taken a 1 or 2yr deal from us.. and we didn't have to break the bank on him.. he took a low ball offer from Carolina.. or signed him and Ferg and we wouldn't have had to draft Jaymar..


Why, even though I like Hackett, he would still be a short term fix just like Ferg is and Ferg knows the scheme.
If you know as much as you say you do, you must admit that Ferg will be more effective this year cause he knows the system.

By the way, I think that BB will be productive, but I worry about his ability to adapt as well.
Remember what Gus said about the scheme and how different it is what with all the terminalogy.

You failed in your endevour to convince me.
Nice try though as I am a Hackett fan.

Saying Hackett would be a short term fix is like saying Jaren allen is a short term fix.
They are both 26 and have 4-5 yrs experience (hackett has 5 and has played in the WCO his entire career)


i'm not sure what your deal is about adjustments or lack thereof... i know you think (and you do to and extent) you know alot about football and that your word is LAW... (I do to by the way, unless convinced otherwise..)... but the fact remains that anybody with a brain that watched any of those games would know that we didn't make adjustments and that our coaches don't always put our players in the best situation to be successful.. and i have proof..


My deal with adjustments is everyone sits out there and uses it as a cliche' and don't have the faintest idea what a adjustment is.

Additionally, even if they do they don't seem to then take it to the next step and look at the players and thier ability to make those adjustments.
Lets not forget the big wild card in all of this is that we had a very young/raw QB on the field.
That alone would cause any Ocord/HC to hesitate from trying to do anything fancy.

Oh, i forgot the all-knowing Marrdro is the only one on here that knows what the hell an adjustment is...

If you have 9 men in the box... YOU THROW THE BALL!!!!!
or atleast run out of a passing formation to spread them out a little.. by and far its worth a try.. and when we did do that often times it worked.!!! i don't see what changing your personnel and formations has anything to do with being fancy!!!


but staying par for the course and going two TE's and running up the middle with AP is such a good game plan, when he runs for 3 yds... you can stick to your plan, but you may change the personnel to give them something to think about!.. I"m all for them sticking to their game plan, but often times our offense got ridiculously predictable and they didn't have the adaptability to change such a simple fundamental to atleast "SEE" if something else would work. and if they did it was too late.. PERFECT EXAMPLE!! Skins 2nd half and Broncos' 2nd half.


In the skins game, Chilly admitted we stuck with the run tooo long!...


Who was gonna throw it and who was gonna catch it?

Marrdro your missing the point!!.. You can still stick with the run, but when you run it 1st and 10, 2nd and 8.. throw a pass for 4yds on 3rd down punt!!!.. for a majority of the 1st half posessions.. that's a problem!.. Especially when your running against 8-9 men in the box... So, i guess in your head that's a good idea??.. so hell, just keep running!!!


AP, said, we should have gotten him in space more often by throwing to him, and Bevell (i think) backed this up by saying he would try to incorporate that more into the scheme this year..


Believe it or not, it takes time to setup a screen and it also takes a OL that knows what they hell they are doing to set one up.

Go back and watch the screens we did run.
TJ almost got killed in all of them. I suppose you know that of course and factored that into the ability of making that adjustment and executing it.

Getting him in space, doesnt necessarily mean running a screen.. it could be a swing pass, short underneath clear-out route, there are a number of ways to accomplish this, but the closed minded thinking doesn't allow for one to think outside the box....


Furthermore, i don't see how in the hell saying our coaches don't make adjustments is a cliche'.


It is when you don't put anything behind it.

Put nothing behind it??... hell, if you want me to come up with a game plan or x's o's so be it!!.. but i did state an adjustment... and what we could have atleast tried to get some success... but i guess, your just happy with what you saw on the field and that awful excuse for having an answer to 8-9 in the box... if your gonna sit there and say, hey, well, we have young players and can't do this or that, so we'll just keep doing this even tho it's not working.. then your measure of wanting to win is different than mine... i on the other hand would have atleast tried to see if something else would have worked... I'm just saying try... exhaust all possibilities...

then again, you haven't exactly been specific about what i haven't been specific about!!.. all your doing is saying it's cliche' when it's cliche' for you to say that and not say why, esp. when i'm saying and giving idea as to what we could do... so don't lump me in the cliche' category!!.. .. that's BS!


Clearly we all know Chilly can be stubborn, so as i said in a post last year.. if Chilly thinks his offense is KAO.. then obviously, it would make sense that he thinks the game plan he came up with prior to the game would work no matter what the defense does against him...


No it isn't clear to me.
Enlighten me.
Give me evidence.
By the way, that is one of the biggest baddest cliche's out there with respect to the Chiller.
;D

Again, because you know so much, I am sure you are taking out the ability of the players to execute said schemes into your analysis.
I have and I say we say a vanilla version of the KAO just because the team was limited in what they could do.

Wait, I suppose you believe they had no limitations.

there you go with that word again!!... do you know him personally???... then how the eff would you know whether he's stubborn or not!!.. i understand limitations.. and all... but it's obvious he's stubborn by the way he came in here and carried things from the first year he was brought here... he even is quoted as saying when your a head coach you have to do it your way.. and that's the only way... (i agree) but for the longest time he wouldn't even listen to vet players..

Now over the last year he has lightened up and started listening more, as evidenced by his giving twill his paychek back... so, if he's admitedly stubborn regarding the way he runs his program, when you see the same signs on the field, it's equally easy to reason, and even more so, that he would be that way about his offense, game plan, and so on!!... it's not only by observation that you come to this conclusion, it's also by inductive reasoning... apply similar theories to like circumstances... Marr, that's common sense!!.. so you can put the cliche' work back in the bag.. and use it in a more relevant case!!


But as you can see, that's not always the reason or what actually happens.. Hence: the 9ers, skins, bronco's and bears game.. they did very similar things against us..and it wasn't only putting 8-9 in the box, it was blitzing safeties, corners, and LB's in running gaps on situations where AP was in the game...


Wonder why they did that stuff?
Cause our OL couldn't stop it.
I suppose you want them to run a screen with that kindof blitz pattern coming against us?
Or maybe you wanted the QB to throw a deep ball?


I wouldn't think that as I saw how much time our QB had to actually get rid of the ball last year.
I am sure that you are knowledgable enough to know that he didn't.
Probably why that adjustment didn't happen ya think?

now that's just an jiggly butt-holish assanine statement to make!!.. and even more than that that's just dumb!!.. if you have a team that is doing the same thing... copy cat league, against you week in and week out, and you don't make adjustments, whether in pass protection, play calling, or whatever... you need to be fired... YOur like, well, we can't stop that, so we won't fix it!!.. oh, well!!.. i understand we had pass protection issues.. but that doens't mean, that you can't look at the tape, and come up with ways to counter the scheme teams are running against you.. especially if you see it all the time!!.. that's what being a coach and being "adaptable" or making adjustments is all about!!..

It wasn't like we were seing all these exotic coverages.. we say 8-9 in the box consistently... i understand we have a young QB... but when we took the thumb out of his mouth, and allowed him to make mistakes, you saw a vastly different QB than when we coddled him!!..

Fact, is, teams did similar things against us, and we needed to come up with a way to fix, it and all they did was the same thing as the week before, it really, honestly looked like they weren't prepared for it or didn't think the next team would do the same thing, whether bc, they didn't have the same personnel or what!!.. but they did!.. and we were not prepared for it!..



So, for you to say that's cliche is just stupid to me..


Sorry you feel that way.


well i do!!!


Additionally, I freakin know TJ was learning on the field.. c'mon Marr give me more credit than that, and i have always backed TJ... but my point is, our receiving core was also kinda crappy last year and by just signing BB, so a woeful passing game, i just think we could have upgraded a little more to help TJ out even more this year...

If i recall you even supported the claim that it would have been nice to get Hackett. so what are you talking about!!...

and i agree some of the problems were the OL, however, seeing as how we didn't do anything in the offseason to substantially upgrade the OL, this year ( besides bring in a few undrafted FA's) even with McKinnie's suspension looming... another wr threat sure would come in handy....


Hey, that sounds like something I kindof just typed.
;D

I never disputed that point!!!... that's a foregone conclusion.. the question is, given these problems, what are you as a team gonna do to fix it or atleast mask it in the best way possible... that's the point i'm trying to make!!!..


so marr.. what is it that the rest of yall are seeing...????

I agree on a lot of those points.. but i just find it kinda ridiculous and juvenile that you would even say something like that, I think you should get your head out your arse and see what most ppl see in that CHilly and Bevell need to be more flexible when it comes to playcalling and taking advantage of the defenses weaknesses with creative thinking, even if that meant putting their weakness against our weakness.. sometimes that could end up being a strength..!!
LOL, get my head out of my arse huh.
Your just trying to crack me up now.


Maybe I need to start a poll again to show you that you are in the minority here on this.
There are a heck of alot more posters on here that think along the lines of me in the fact that the play calling was limited last year, not because the coach has a hard head and won't adjust but rather he was limited in what he could do.

In short, you need to be able to exploit that weakness.
Last year we couldn't because of poor OL play (Pass blocking), a raw QB who couldn't get through his reads, and WR's who dropped the ball.

This year TJ's ability to read defenses will help, the OL will gel abit more allowing for him to make a few more reads than one and we have a new WR who gives us what T-will couldn't and two young WR's who will also show improvement.

maybe you do, bc, i think your giving yourself too much credit in thinking that ppl actually agree with you in the simple points that we think Chilly is doing fine as a coach and makes good game-to-game and in game adjustments...

If you did do something like that, i think you'd be in the minority on that one!!.. i think most ppl on here feel as though Chilly could make better adjustments to things teams do against us, whether on the spot or on a regular basis!...

And while i agree with you that the playcalling is limited do to OL issues and a raw QB.. but that's a freakin excuse... you still have to do some things, whether adjust your personnel, or send your QB to the LOS with 2 plays (run/pass) and tell him if you see this run it, if you see this pass it... or you call a different pattern of plays... or you run a run play out of a pass formation or vice-versa... we could have used the fact that everyone knew we were gonna run to our advantage... and sold it.. it's called deception... that's the point im trying to make!!...

it's the not types of plays i'm complaining about, it's when we run the plays and in specific situations we run them is what i'm getting at...


and if you read my entire post.. i did include and describe an adjustment that they should and could have implemented!!!... I said when they stacked the box, with AP in the game, send in 3 wr's with AP in the game and spread'em out and run the ball or throw it!!.. Give TJ two plays to go to the line of scrimmage and call one of them... but your soo worried and got all excited about ppl using cliche's that you failed to read that statement...


I read your attempt.
My apologies for finding it not enough.

whatever!!.. if you were looking for more, then elaborate on what your looking for and i'll explain... your comment is like a teacher that says, your paper is vague and it sucks.. instead of asking like, hey, what about this.. what about this..

your sittin up there saying your explanation of an adjustment is not enough so it's cliche'.... when it s really cliche' to sit there and say something like that when you complain about ppl doing the same thing... i.e. the John Booty should start thread...




your still my dogg tho!!.. but i swear you frustrate the HELL out of me sometimes!!! ;D
should make for a very entertaing pre-season Ravens game!!!lol
You said I'm funny so I will always be your dog.

JK, Don't think of it so negatively, these types of discussions are what makes this site great.
If everyone agreed this place would be really boring.

Just cause I don't agree with you doesn't make you wrong and me right.
It just means I don't agree with you.
Keep on trying to convince me.
Maybe, (I doubt it
;D) you will sway me to your way of thinking.
[/quote]

I don't take these conversations negatively... i like the discussions, and they do get heated sometimes... but to your point.. I'll make a general point!!

If you (AP) keep running into a brick wall (last 4 games of the season)... over and over and over again...

and every time you get back up and do it again... and the only thing you can come up to as to why you keep doing that dumb ship!!
is that well, i don't know how to jump so i have to do it this way...

ppl are gonna be like that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard!!.. where instead in fact, you can go around it.. dig a whole under it, take a rope and climb ur butt over it.. etc. etc...

same thing for our vikes.. i know we had protection issues and a raw QB.. but we could have done something (some of the things i mentioned above) to get the other team to think twice about running that coverage against us.. esp. with AP in the game...'

you notice, over those last few games, when CT was in the game, he had no problem churning our yards.. that's bc, the other team wasn't as focused solely on stopping him... as they were AP... so if they were so focused on stopping AP.. that is a built in advantage that we could have had.. but no, what did we do... two TE's and run left, run right.. over and over...

there were other things we could have done to move the ball... but we rarely did...

Marrdro
06-02-2008, 02:22 PM
OK, that is just way to much to reply to and if I did I don't think I will be able to change our mind.
I am gonna accept defeat and concede the field.

Looking forward to meeting you at the Ravens game.
I bet we talk for hours over these subjects/topics.
Maybe then I will be able to change your mind on a few things and swing you to the good side.
(JK my friend
;D)

One comment though......


Oh, i forgot the all-knowing Marrdro is the only one on here that knows what the hell an adjustment is...

I am not all knowing and am a self proclaimed yutz.
Again, just cause I disagree with you doesn't make me right or you wrong.
Just means I disagree with you.

V-Unit
06-02-2008, 02:43 PM
Bleedpurple Wins!

marstc09
06-02-2008, 02:58 PM
"V" wrote:


Bleedpurple Wins!


Nobody wins. It is opinions. Why do people feel they have to win all the time?

Marrdro
06-02-2008, 03:01 PM
"V" wrote:


Bleedpurple Wins!

LOL, not the first time I've conceded the field on here.
;D

NodakPaul
06-02-2008, 03:01 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Bleedpurple Wins!


Nobody wins. It is opinions. Why do people feel they have to win all the time?


Actually, I think we are all loser for reading 7 pages of that. :)

OK, everybody wins except for martc09 ;D

marstc09
06-02-2008, 03:03 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Bleedpurple Wins!


Nobody wins. It is opinions. Why do people feel they have to win all the time?


Actually, I think we are all loser for reading 7 pages of that. :)

OK, everybody wins except for martc09 ;D


I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me.
8)

NodakPaul
06-02-2008, 03:47 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Bleedpurple Wins!


Nobody wins. It is opinions. Why do people feel they have to win all the time?


Actually, I think we are all loser for reading 7 pages of that. :)

OK, everybody wins except for martc09 ;D


I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me.
8)


Crazy with the cheese whiz...

midgensa
06-02-2008, 03:59 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Bleedpurple Wins!


Nobody wins. It is opinions. Why do people feel they have to win all the time?


Actually, I think we are all loser for reading 7 pages of that. :)

OK, everybody wins except for martc09 ;D


I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me.
8)


Crazy with the cheese whiz...


Drive-by body pierce ...
Now I win!!! lol ... nothing like references to great music to occupy my time at work
;D

WildViking3030
06-02-2008, 04:46 PM
"midgensa" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:




Bleedpurple Wins!


Nobody wins. It is opinions. Why do people feel they have to win all the time?


Actually, I think we are all loser for reading 7 pages of that. :)

OK, everybody wins except for martc09 ;D


I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me.
8)


Crazy with the cheese whiz...


Drive-by body pierce ...
Now I win!!! lol ... nothing like references to great music to occupy my time at work
;D


Didn't see the Beck references comming
;D
Not a big fan or anything but...shotgun wedding and a stain on my shirt.