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Garland Greene
05-05-2008, 10:39 PM
http://ww3.startribune.com/vikingsblog/?p=1576

Former NFL front office man Pat Kirwan has an insightful piece at NFL.com suggesting the Vikings could use rookie S Tyrell Johnson in their “Big Nickel” package.

DustinDupont
05-05-2008, 10:42 PM
I like it!

Garland Greene
05-05-2008, 10:47 PM
Allen trade, the 'big nickel' and other final draft observations

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d808186c7&template=with-video&confirm=true

'Big Nickel' is getting bigger

Speaking of Tyrell Johnson, there is a growing desire in the NFL for defenses to play more "Big Nickel" defense. You often hear about teams substituting a corner for a linebacker when their opponent sends in an extra wide receiver

cito
05-05-2008, 10:48 PM
This makes perfect sense to me.
If you have a safety who can run, this not only allows for coverage of tight ends and wide receivers but gives more versatility over the typical nickelback in terms of still being able to defend the run when in the nickel.


Last year, I thought they should have held on to Greg Blue and moved him to linebacker for use on special teams and then put him in on passing downs, which is a similar idea.


Something needs to be done to better account for the third receiver.
Much rather match the receiving tight end or slot receiver up with a safety than with Leber or Greenway.
Hopefully there will be fewer times this year during which it looks like the other teams QB is just shooting fish in the barrel.
Improving the pass rush and tighter coverage underneath seem important to do this.

V-Unit
05-05-2008, 10:57 PM
Misleading title. You are simply lining up a safety at nickelback, not actually in a 3-safety formation.

I would definetly like to see it in action though, as TEs have killed us the last two years.

cajunvike
05-05-2008, 11:01 PM
They could have just as easily used Marcus McCauley as the "Big Nickle" back

Garland Greene
05-05-2008, 11:13 PM
"V" wrote:


Misleading title. You are simply lining up a safety at nickelback, not actually in a 3-safety formation.

I would definetly like to see it in action though, as TEs have killed us the last two years.


I didn't name the thread just used the existing one from the story. In reality though you are still using 3 Safeties as the NB is more traditionally a 3rd CB ;)

Garland Greene
05-05-2008, 11:20 PM
interesting lineup

So in some situations, the Vikings’ nickel defense could look like this:



* RE Jared Allen


* DT Kevin Williams


* DT Ellis Wyms/Fred Evans/Letroy Guion/TBA


* LE Ray Edwards


* LB Ben Leber/Chad Greenway


* LB E.J. Henderson


* CB Antoine Winfield


* CB Cedric Griffin


* S Darren Sharper


* S Madieu Williams


* NB Tyrell Johnson

i_bleed_purple
05-05-2008, 11:27 PM
why take out Pat Williams?
He's better at collapsing the pocket than any of our backup DT's.

midgensa
05-05-2008, 11:40 PM
It is kind of interesting ... and may work against the stronger tight ends in the league, but I would have to think that McCauley will still remain our primary nickel back.

LAVike
05-05-2008, 11:49 PM
Good read.
Thanks for the link!

BradTheMan14
05-05-2008, 11:59 PM
what the hell is the big nickel. sounds silly to me.

Marrdro
05-06-2008, 12:19 AM
Enter safeties like Johnson, who — at 6-1 and 207 pounds

Or use a couple of bigger corners that can also play safety......

23 Cedric Griffin CB 25 6-0 203 2 Texas
31 Marcus McCauley CB 24 6-0 203 R Fresno State

Comeon people, when I say we are looking for DB's that can play S or CB I get beat up, but let Kirwin say it and now its gospel.

;D

Truth of the matter is in the scheme we run no one runs with/covers a TE as its a layered approach to how you will negate the TE threat like we saw with Witten.


As the TE leaves the line of scrimmage he is first covered by a LB (if they don't have to rush the passer) who is the first guy in the zone who then turns the guy over to a S as he gets into the next zone/layers.
The tricky part is that the S, CB, LB'rs all need to know who what when and were they are covering as they face multiple reciever threats.




The three linebackers and two cornerbacks are responsible for covering the middle of the field. The outside linebackers general zone is between the cornerbacks covering the area of the field from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards back. The middle linebacker must have better-than-average speed, and additional skills to be able to read the play and either maintain his central position to help the outside linebackers cover short passes, drop behind the linebackers in coverage and protect the zone of the field behind the outside linebackers from 11-20 yards out, or run up to the line of scrimmage to help assist in stopping the run. The cornerbacks protect the sidelines of the field from the line of scrimmage to anywhere between 15-20 yards out. An additional requirement for all of Dungy's linebackers and cornerbacks is to be above-average tacklers, as they are usually the primary tacklers in the defense.



The two safeties are responsible for covering their respective halves of the field from 20 yards out and more. The safeties in the system are expected to be above-average cover men with the ability to break up passes, but each safety also is expected to have additional specific skills. The strong safeties, while not expected to be great tacklers, are expected to be hard hitters. The hard hitting strong safety protects the middle of the field from being exploited by small, fast wide receivers, and running backs on 'Wheel' routes, by intimidating them to not run their routes in that direction. The free safety will be called upon to do one of two things in certain situations, either blitz the quarterback, requiring him to have the skills necessary to beat a blocking running back or fullback, or to assume the coverage zone left by a blitzing cornerback.



In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_2

V-Unit
05-06-2008, 09:51 AM
"Garland" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Misleading title. You are simply lining up a safety at nickelback, not actually in a 3-safety formation.

I would definetly like to see it in action though, as TEs have killed us the last two years.


I didn't name the thread just used the existing one from the story. In reality though you are still using 3 Safeties as the NB is more traditionally a 3rd CB ;)


Not Calling you out, but the article instead. I agree, you are using 3-safeties, but it is not a 3-safety formation. When all is said and done we are arguing about the name of it, and "Big Nickel" solves that.

The Big Nickel does not mesh with how we usually play nickel defense though. Remember that we moved Winfield to nickelback and let McCauley play CB. This was so Winfield could add better support in run defense. Obviously we'll never take Winny out of the game by choice, so I'm assuming we move him back outside to CB and put Johnson in instead of McCauley?

It at least adds an interesting little twist to TC.

The truth is there is no reason for us to be in a nickel defense when the offense is running a Two WR, One TE set. With an expected improvement in pass rush, I would rather have us stay in the base cover 2 and pressure the damn QB. Let the LB, who was blitzing last year, cover the TE. Alsof they run (which is very possible from that set) a LB is going to shed the block of a pulling lineman or a leading FB better than a safety can. Johnson looks to be very solid in run support though.

jessejames09
05-06-2008, 10:23 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:



Enter safeties like Johnson, who — at 6-1 and 207 pounds

Or use a couple of bigger corners that can also play safety......

23 Cedric Griffin CB 25 6-0 203 2 Texas
31 Marcus McCauley CB 24 6-0 203 R Fresno State

Comeon people, when I say we are looking for DB's that can play S or CB I get beat up, but let Kirwin say it and now its gospel.
;D

Truth of the matter is in the scheme we run no one runs with/covers a TE as its a layered approach to how you will negate the TE threat like we saw with Witten.


As the TE leaves the line of scrimmage he is first covered by a LB (if they don't have to rush the passer) who is the first guy in the zone who then turns the guy over to a S as he gets into the next zone/layers.
The tricky part is that the S, CB, LB'rs all need to know who what when and were they are covering as they face multiple reciever threats.




The three linebackers and two cornerbacks are responsible for covering the middle of the field. The outside linebackers general zone is between the cornerbacks covering the area of the field from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards back. The middle linebacker must have better-than-average speed, and additional skills to be able to read the play and either maintain his central position to help the outside linebackers cover short passes, drop behind the linebackers in coverage and protect the zone of the field behind the outside linebackers from 11-20 yards out, or run up to the line of scrimmage to help assist in stopping the run. The cornerbacks protect the sidelines of the field from the line of scrimmage to anywhere between 15-20 yards out. An additional requirement for all of Dungy's linebackers and cornerbacks is to be above-average tacklers, as they are usually the primary tacklers in the defense.



The two safeties are responsible for covering their respective halves of the field from 20 yards out and more. The safeties in the system are expected to be above-average cover men with the ability to break up passes, but each safety also is expected to have additional specific skills. The strong safeties, while not expected to be great tacklers, are expected to be hard hitters. The hard hitting strong safety protects the middle of the field from being exploited by small, fast wide receivers, and running backs on 'Wheel' routes, by intimidating them to not run their routes in that direction. The free safety will be called upon to do one of two things in certain situations, either blitz the quarterback, requiring him to have the skills necessary to beat a blocking running back or fullback, or to assume the coverage zone left by a blitzing cornerback.



In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_2



Why put Griffin in the slot he's fine occupying the outside. McCauley is most likely going to be our NB, but Antoine will move to the slot when he comes in as usual. This 'Big Nickel' will be used a few times throughout the season, I'm sure as we want to get Johnson as many touches as we can this season, without starting him. I remember seeing Tank come in on nickel last year, on occasion.

Mr Anderson
05-06-2008, 10:32 AM
"Three Safety Formation" Makes it sound like there will be three safeties deep. And I think we'd get picked apart over the middle.










Williams












Johnson













Sharper

























EJ









Chad

Griffin















Allen

Williams

DT

Edwards











Winfield


When really, putting Johnson in as the Nickel Corner just does takes a real corner off the field.
I'd much rather have:














Madieu












Sharper








McCauley














EJ











Chad

Griffin








Robison


KWill


Allen


Edwards








Winfield
McCauley's not a LB there, the bottom line of text was too crowded. He's the nickel CB.


With Madieu and Sharper covering their deep halves, all 3 corners man-on-man, and either EJ or Chad on the TE(not against guys like Kellen Winslow though, tight ends with normal tight end speed) we could match up no problem with 4 WR formations.

And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

And if we move Allen to the inside for the down, working on the right guard, who's usually the worst pass blocking lineman on the team, we'll get ridiculous pressure. I'm feeling a lot of interceptions this season.

DustinDupont
05-06-2008, 03:40 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"Three Safety Formation" Makes it sound like there will be three safeties deep. And I think we'd get picked apart over the middle.









Williams











Johnson













Sharper
























EJ








Chad

Griffin















Allen

Williams
DT
Edwards










Winfield


When really, putting Johnson in as the Nickel Corner just does takes a real corner off the field.
I'd much rather have:













Madieu












Sharper







McCauley












EJ











Chad

Griffin








Robison

KWill

Allen


Edwards








Winfield
McCauley's not a LB there, the bottom line of text was too crowded. He's the nickel CB.


With Madieu and Sharper covering their deep halves, all 3 corners man-on-man, and either EJ or Chad on the TE(not against guys like Kellen Winslow though, tight ends with normal tight end speed) we could match up no problem with 4 WR formations.

And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

And if we move Allen to the inside for the down, working on the right guard, who's usually the worst pass blocking lineman on the team, we'll get ridiculous pressure. I'm feeling a lot of interceptions this season.

































Johnson would be used is the nickel back in the formation...

Mr Anderson
05-06-2008, 03:48 PM
"DustinDupont" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"Three Safety Formation" Makes it sound like there will be three safeties deep. And I think we'd get picked apart over the middle.










Williams












Johnson













Sharper

























EJ









Chad

Griffin















Allen

Williams

DT

Edwards











Winfield


When really, putting Johnson in as the Nickel Corner just does takes a real corner off the field.
I'd much rather have:













Madieu












Sharper








McCauley












EJ











Chad

Griffin








Robison


KWill


Allen


Edwards








Winfield
McCauley's not a LB there, the bottom line of text was too crowded. He's the nickel CB.


With Madieu and Sharper covering their deep halves, all 3 corners man-on-man, and either EJ or Chad on the TE(not against guys like Kellen Winslow though, tight ends with normal tight end speed) we could match up no problem with 4 WR formations.

And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

And if we move Allen to the inside for the down, working on the right guard, who's usually the worst pass blocking lineman on the team, we'll get ridiculous pressure. I'm feeling a lot of interceptions this season.

































Johnson would be used is the nickel back in the formation...


What? Did you read the post, or just look at the diagram? I said that I'd rather have McCauley in as the nickel corner, the "3 safety formation" this article addresses is just putting a safety in place of the nickel corner to match up with bigger TEs. Which is why I included:

And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

mountainviking
05-06-2008, 03:54 PM
In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.

Mr Anderson
05-06-2008, 04:01 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:



In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg

NodakPaul
05-06-2008, 04:43 PM
"Mr" wrote:


In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.


Another reason for this is the fact that once the ball in thrown, the longer the pass the more time the safety has to react to it, effectively giving them the ability to cover more ground in the deeper part of the field.

This is a good diagram, although I don;t think that using all rectangles for coverage zones is really accurate.
For instance, assuming that there is no blitzing, the MLB's coverage sone would be more of an upside down triangle..

A2-D8
05-06-2008, 04:46 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:



In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg


I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.

jessejames09
05-06-2008, 07:01 PM
I am 100% sure the vikings will run this formation!





Williams








Sharper








Johnson

















EJ






Greenway
Griffin







Allen

K.Williams

Allen




McCauley




Winfield


In madden.

jessejames09
05-06-2008, 07:07 PM
"A2-D8" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:



In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg


I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.


Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.

Marrdro
05-06-2008, 07:11 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"Three Safety Formation" Makes it sound like there will be three safeties deep. And I think we'd get picked apart over the middle.










Williams












Johnson













Sharper

























EJ









Chad

Griffin















Allen

Williams

DT

Edwards











Winfield


When really, putting Johnson in as the Nickel Corner just does takes a real corner off the field.
I'd much rather have:














Madieu












Sharper








McCauley














EJ











Chad

Griffin








Robison


KWill


Allen


Edwards








Winfield
McCauley's not a LB there, the bottom line of text was too crowded. He's the nickel CB.


With Madieu and Sharper covering their deep halves, all 3 corners man-on-man, and either EJ or Chad on the TE(not against guys like Kellen Winslow though, tight ends with normal tight end speed) we could match up no problem with 4 WR formations.

And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

And if we move Allen to the inside for the down, working on the right guard, who's usually the worst pass blocking lineman on the team, we'll get ridiculous pressure. I'm feeling a lot of interceptions this season.





























What he said.
;D

JK, I wasn't advocating putting Griffin anyplace.
I was however saying that our CB's are as big as S, are probably better athletes and would be a better cover for a TE than a S.


Why put Griffin in the slot he's fine occupying the outside. McCauley is most likely going to be our NB, but Antoine will move to the slot when he comes in as usual. This 'Big Nickel' will be used a few times throughout the season, I'm sure as we want to get Johnson as many touches as we can this season, without starting him. I remember seeing Tank come in on nickel last year, on occasion.

Marrdro
05-06-2008, 07:13 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:



In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg

Your on a roll tonight my friend.
Top shelf.
;D

Marrdro
05-06-2008, 07:19 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:



In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg


I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.


Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.

LOL, your cracking me up.
;D

Lets not forget, Ben is more of a 3-4 DE/OLB (get after the QB) than he is a 4-3 (drop into coverage) guy that fits the mold of a Cover 2 OLB even though he had done a good job so far.

I believe that a guy that can move a bit faster than Ben (Rufus/Erin) might be the guy that comes in for him at times this year depending on what the opposing team brings to the plate with respect to TE's/Slot recievers.

Purple Floyd
05-06-2008, 07:25 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


I am 100% sure the vikings will run this formation!





Williams








Sharper








Johnson

















EJ






Greenway
Griffin







Allen

K.Williams

Allen




McCauley




Winfield


In madden.


LOL

jessejames09
05-06-2008, 07:32 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:



In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg


I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.


Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.

LOL, your cracking me up.
;D

Lets not forget, Ben is more of a 3-4 DE/OLB (get after the QB) than he is a 4-3 (drop into coverage) guy that fits the mold of a Cover 2 OLB even though he had done a good job so far.

I believe that a guy that can move a bit faster than Ben (Rufus/Erin) might be the guy that comes in for him at times this year depending on what the opposing team brings to the plate with respect to TE's/Slot recievers.




Still underrated. Greenway has more potential maybe but Leber won the pp.o poll of who our best linebacker was last year. That's even better than madden ratings.

Marrdro
05-06-2008, 07:37 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:





In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg


I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.


Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.

LOL, your cracking me up.
;D

Lets not forget, Ben is more of a 3-4 DE/OLB (get after the QB) than he is a 4-3 (drop into coverage) guy that fits the mold of a Cover 2 OLB even though he had done a good job so far.

I believe that a guy that can move a bit faster than Ben (Rufus/Erin) might be the guy that comes in for him at times this year depending on what the opposing team brings to the plate with respect to TE's/Slot recievers.




Still underrated. Greenway has more potential maybe but Leber won the pp.o poll of who our best linebacker was last year. That's even better than madden ratings.

Not to slam my fellow PPO'rs but most of the ones who voted for him probably did because of some of his work he did in the backfield because of our lack of pass rush by the front 4.

We need guys like Chad, EJ who can fly to the ball, drop into zone coverage as well as hold the line against the run.

Again, I like been but he isn't quite of that mold.
I strongly think he will eventually become one of those situational LB's who come in against a 3rd and short situation (run) or a 3rd and forever (Pass rush) situation were he can best use his skill sets.

By the way, I wonder how those PPO'rs would vote if they actually saw him trying to drop back into coverage? Watch clips from the Dallas game.
Leber and Chad switched all the time as Leber couldn't cover Witten.

jessejames09
05-06-2008, 07:50 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:







In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg


I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.


Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.

LOL, your cracking me up.
;D

Lets not forget, Ben is more of a 3-4 DE/OLB (get after the QB) than he is a 4-3 (drop into coverage) guy that fits the mold of a Cover 2 OLB even though he had done a good job so far.

I believe that a guy that can move a bit faster than Ben (Rufus/Erin) might be the guy that comes in for him at times this year depending on what the opposing team brings to the plate with respect to TE's/Slot recievers.




Still underrated. Greenway has more potential maybe but Leber won the pp.o poll of who our best linebacker was last year. That's even better than madden ratings.

Not to slam my fellow PPO'rs but most of the ones who voted for him probably did because of some of his work he did in the backfield because of our lack of pass rush by the front 4.

We need guys like Chad, EJ who can fly to the ball, drop into zone coverage as well as hold the line against the run.

Again, I like been but he isn't quite of that mold.
I strongly think he will eventually become one of those situational LB's who come in against a 3rd and short situation (run) or a 3rd and forever (Pass rush) situation were he can best use his skill sets.

By the way, I wonder how those PPO'rs would vote if they actually saw him trying to drop back into coverage? Watch clips from the Dallas game.
Leber and Chad switched all the time as Leber couldn't cover Witten.


I was more won over by key interceptions, and solid tackling. I'd say EJ is more of a liability in pass coverage than Leber.

Marrdro
05-06-2008, 07:54 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:









In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg


I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.


Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.

LOL, your cracking me up.
;D

Lets not forget, Ben is more of a 3-4 DE/OLB (get after the QB) than he is a 4-3 (drop into coverage) guy that fits the mold of a Cover 2 OLB even though he had done a good job so far.

I believe that a guy that can move a bit faster than Ben (Rufus/Erin) might be the guy that comes in for him at times this year depending on what the opposing team brings to the plate with respect to TE's/Slot recievers.




Still underrated. Greenway has more potential maybe but Leber won the pp.o poll of who our best linebacker was last year. That's even better than madden ratings.

Not to slam my fellow PPO'rs but most of the ones who voted for him probably did because of some of his work he did in the backfield because of our lack of pass rush by the front 4.

We need guys like Chad, EJ who can fly to the ball, drop into zone coverage as well as hold the line against the run.

Again, I like been but he isn't quite of that mold.
I strongly think he will eventually become one of those situational LB's who come in against a 3rd and short situation (run) or a 3rd and forever (Pass rush) situation were he can best use his skill sets.

By the way, I wonder how those PPO'rs would vote if they actually saw him trying to drop back into coverage? Watch clips from the Dallas game.

Leber and Chad switched all the time as Leber couldn't cover Witten.


I was more won over by key interceptions, and solid tackling. I'd say EJ is more of a liability in pass coverage than Leber.


Hmm, I kindof liked EJ's coverage skills.

jessejames09
05-06-2008, 09:08 PM
I'd say we'd be splitting hairs trying to separate 1 from the other 2. All of them are between good and great.

Mr Anderson
05-06-2008, 09:26 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"mountainviking" wrote:



In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg

Your on a roll tonight my friend.
Top shelf.

;D

What else is new?

JK, Thanks Marr.

Chazz
05-06-2008, 11:46 PM
"Garland" wrote:


interesting lineup

So in some situations, the Vikings’ nickel defense could look like this:


* RE Brian Robison


* REDT Jared Allen


* DT Kevin Williams


* DT Ellis Wyms/Fred Evans/Letroy Guion/TBA




* LE Ray Edwards


* LB Ben Leber/Chad Greenway


* LB E.J. Henderson


* CB Antoine Winfield


* CB Cedric Griffin


* S Darren Sharper


* S Madieu Williams


* NB Tyrell Johnson




I like this one better. 8)

DustinDupont
05-07-2008, 12:28 AM
"Chazz" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


interesting lineup

So in some situations, the Vikings’ nickel defense could look like this:


* RE Brian Robison


* REDT Jared Allen


* DT Kevin Williams


* DT Ellis Wyms/Fred Evans/Letroy Guion/TBA




* LE Ray Edwards


* LB Ben Leber/Chad Greenway


* LB E.J. Henderson


* CB Antoine Winfield


* CB Cedric Griffin


* S Darren Sharper


* S Madieu Williams


* NB Tyrell Johnson




I like this one better. 8)

+1

A2-D8
05-07-2008, 02:40 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:











In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.


Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
Boulware fits that mold.
But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.



In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/Cover2.jpg


I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.


Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.

LOL, your cracking me up.
;D

Lets not forget, Ben is more of a 3-4 DE/OLB (get after the QB) than he is a 4-3 (drop into coverage) guy that fits the mold of a Cover 2 OLB even though he had done a good job so far.

I believe that a guy that can move a bit faster than Ben (Rufus/Erin) might be the guy that comes in for him at times this year depending on what the opposing team brings to the plate with respect to TE's/Slot recievers.




Still underrated. Greenway has more potential maybe but Leber won the pp.o poll of who our best linebacker was last year. That's even better than madden ratings.

Not to slam my fellow PPO'rs but most of the ones who voted for him probably did because of some of his work he did in the backfield because of our lack of pass rush by the front 4.

We need guys like Chad, EJ who can fly to the ball, drop into zone coverage as well as hold the line against the run.

Again, I like been but he isn't quite of that mold.
I strongly think he will eventually become one of those situational LB's who come in against a 3rd and short situation (run) or a 3rd and forever (Pass rush) situation were he can best use his skill sets.

By the way, I wonder how those PPO'rs would vote if they actually saw him trying to drop back into coverage? Watch clips from the Dallas game.

Leber and Chad switched all the time as Leber couldn't cover Witten.


I was more won over by key interceptions, and solid tackling. I'd say EJ is more of a liability in pass coverage than Leber.


Hmm, I kindof liked EJ's coverage skills.


I think the LB who struggled in coverage at times last year was Greenway, he simply lookes like a young player.
Leber seems to be the less atheletic of the LB's but his head for the game makes up for that.


I went to college at the University of South Dakota which is located in Leber's home town.
He's a legend there, along with his 2 older brothers.
I worked at a bar with his best bud from high school so I have met Leber a few times......very nice guy, down to earth, midwest guy.
Also very smart which is evident on the field.

Marrdro
05-07-2008, 02:44 AM
"A2-D8" wrote:


I think the LB who struggled in coverage at times last year was Greenway, he simply lookes like a young player.
Leber seems to be the less atheletic of the LB's but his head for the game makes up for that.


I went to college at the University of South Dakota which is located in Leber's home town.
He's a legend there, along with his 2 older brothers.
I worked at a bar with his best bud from high school so I have met Leber a few times......very nice guy, down to earth, midwest guy.

Also very smart which is evident on the field.



Thanks for the insight my friend.

My take on Chad is that he did a pretty good job (all things considered) as a first year starter (2nd year in the league) and those struggles will be somewhat non existant this year much the same way as I anticipate TJ, Cook, McCauley, Gordon etc will struggle less because of the on field experience they got last year coupled with some indepth film study during this offseason.

Ben, on the other hand will be able to make some minor adjustments but he is about as good as he will ever get, which by the way, is good enough in certain situations.

A2-D8
05-07-2008, 02:52 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


I think the LB who struggled in coverage at times last year was Greenway, he simply lookes like a young player.
Leber seems to be the less atheletic of the LB's but his head for the game makes up for that.


I went to college at the University of South Dakota which is located in Leber's home town.
He's a legend there, along with his 2 older brothers.
I worked at a bar with his best bud from high school so I have met Leber a few times......very nice guy, down to earth, midwest guy.

Also very smart which is evident on the field.



Thanks for the insight my friend.

My take on Chad is that he did a pretty good job (all things considered) as a first year starter (2nd year in the league) and those struggles will be somewhat non existant this year much the same way as I anticipate TJ, Cook, McCauley, Gordon etc will struggle less because of the on field experience they got last year coupled with some indepth film study during this offseason.

Ben, on the other hand will be able to make some minor adjustments but he is about as good as he will ever get, which by the way, is good enough in certain situations.


Agreed on all counts.
This LB crew has only one year togehter under its belt and they still played well.
Greenway should only get better.
Add Allen and therefore the ability to cover instead of blitz as a LB, and this D will be fun to watch.

Marrdro
05-07-2008, 03:08 AM
"A2-D8" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


I think the LB who struggled in coverage at times last year was Greenway, he simply lookes like a young player.
Leber seems to be the less atheletic of the LB's but his head for the game makes up for that.


I went to college at the University of South Dakota which is located in Leber's home town.
He's a legend there, along with his 2 older brothers.
I worked at a bar with his best bud from high school so I have met Leber a few times......very nice guy, down to earth, midwest guy.

Also very smart which is evident on the field.



Thanks for the insight my friend.

My take on Chad is that he did a pretty good job (all things considered) as a first year starter (2nd year in the league) and those struggles will be somewhat non existant this year much the same way as I anticipate TJ, Cook, McCauley, Gordon etc will struggle less because of the on field experience they got last year coupled with some indepth film study during this offseason.

Ben, on the other hand will be able to make some minor adjustments but he is about as good as he will ever get, which by the way, is good enough in certain situations.


Agreed on all counts.
This LB crew has only one year togehter under its belt and they still played well.
Greenway should only get better.
Add Allen and therefore the ability to cover instead of blitz as a LB, and this D will be fun to watch.


You just made a late night move on the ole spreadsheet as well.

Great post my friend.
;D

A2-D8
05-07-2008, 04:04 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


I think the LB who struggled in coverage at times last year was Greenway, he simply lookes like a young player.
Leber seems to be the less atheletic of the LB's but his head for the game makes up for that.


I went to college at the University of South Dakota which is located in Leber's home town.
He's a legend there, along with his 2 older brothers.
I worked at a bar with his best bud from high school so I have met Leber a few times......very nice guy, down to earth, midwest guy.

Also very smart which is evident on the field.



Thanks for the insight my friend.

My take on Chad is that he did a pretty good job (all things considered) as a first year starter (2nd year in the league) and those struggles will be somewhat non existant this year much the same way as I anticipate TJ, Cook, McCauley, Gordon etc will struggle less because of the on field experience they got last year coupled with some indepth film study during this offseason.

Ben, on the other hand will be able to make some minor adjustments but he is about as good as he will ever get, which by the way, is good enough in certain situations.


Agreed on all counts.
This LB crew has only one year togehter under its belt and they still played well.
Greenway should only get better.
Add Allen and therefore the ability to cover instead of blitz as a LB, and this D will be fun to watch.


You just made a late night move on the ole spreadsheet as well.

Great post my friend.

;D


Sweet!!
Starting to really enjoy PP.O.
Love some good Vikiings talk.
Anyway........ I think whatever Nickel package suits the situation (O-personnnel, down and distance, etc...) we will have a number of answers.
A standard nickel with McCauley playing for Leber, the "Leber hybrid" package used last year, or the "big nickel," it will be very difficult for an offence to plan a solid scheme against our multi-wide (3 or more WR) defense.
Keep in mind we still have Charles Gordon and added Benny Sapp, plus there is talk that Tyrell Johnson can possibly play some CB..............We have not even scratched the surface of the possibility of say....Jared Allen dropping into zone on a zone blitz.
Leslie Frasier and his amazing scheming.
This is going to be great!

Marrdro
05-07-2008, 04:36 AM
"A2-D8" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


I think the LB who struggled in coverage at times last year was Greenway, he simply lookes like a young player.
Leber seems to be the less atheletic of the LB's but his head for the game makes up for that.


I went to college at the University of South Dakota which is located in Leber's home town.
He's a legend there, along with his 2 older brothers.
I worked at a bar with his best bud from high school so I have met Leber a few times......very nice guy, down to earth, midwest guy.

Also very smart which is evident on the field.



Thanks for the insight my friend.

My take on Chad is that he did a pretty good job (all things considered) as a first year starter (2nd year in the league) and those struggles will be somewhat non existant this year much the same way as I anticipate TJ, Cook, McCauley, Gordon etc will struggle less because of the on field experience they got last year coupled with some indepth film study during this offseason.

Ben, on the other hand will be able to make some minor adjustments but he is about as good as he will ever get, which by the way, is good enough in certain situations.


Agreed on all counts.
This LB crew has only one year togehter under its belt and they still played well.
Greenway should only get better.
Add Allen and therefore the ability to cover instead of blitz as a LB, and this D will be fun to watch.


You just made a late night move on the ole spreadsheet as well.

Great post my friend.

;D


Sweet!!
Starting to really enjoy PP.O.
Love some good Vikiings talk.
Anyway........ I think whatever Nickel package suits the situation (O-personnnel, down and distance, etc...) we will have a number of answers.
A standard nickel with McCauley playing for Leber, the "Leber hybrid" package used last year, or the "big nickel," it will be very difficult for an offence to plan a solid scheme against our multi-wide (3 or more WR) defense.
Keep in mind we still have Charles Gordon and added Benny Sapp, plus there is talk that Tyrell Johnson can possibly play some CB..............We have not even scratched the surface of the possibility of say....Jared Allen dropping into zone on a zone blitz.
Leslie Frasier and his amazing scheming.
This is going to be great!



You still have a few naysayers on here who can't see the picture but they are fun to pick on as they really think they can make an arguement that the sky is falling.

I would list them but you will figure them out on your own I am sure.
;D

Schutz
05-07-2008, 04:39 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:




I think the LB who struggled in coverage at times last year was Greenway, he simply lookes like a young player.
Leber seems to be the less atheletic of the LB's but his head for the game makes up for that.

e
I went to college at the University of South Dakota which is located in Leber's home town.
He's a legend there, along with his 2 older brothers.
I worked at a bar with his best bud from high school so I have met Leber a few times......very nice guy, down to earth, midwest guy.
Also very smart which is evident on the field.



Thanks for the insight my friend.

My take on Chad is that he did a pretty good job (all things considered) as a first year starter (2nd year in the league) and those struggles will be somewhat non existant this year much the same way as I anticipate TJ, Cook, McCauley, Gordon etc will struggle less because of the on field experience they got last year coupled with some indepth film study during this offseason.

Ben, on the other hand will be able to make some minor adjustments but he is about as good as he will ever get, which by the way, is good enough in certain situations.


Agreed on all counts.
This LB crew has only one year togehter under its belt and they still played well.
Greenway should only get better.
Add Allen and therefore the ability to cover instead of blitz as a LB, and this D will be fun to watch.


You just made a late night move on the ole spreadsheet as well.

Great post my friend.
;D


Sweet!!
Starting to really enjoy PP.O.
Love some good Vikiings talk.
Anyway........ I think whatever Nickel package suits the situation (O-personnnel, down and distance, etc...) we will have a number of answers.
A standard nickel with McCauley playing for Leber, the "Leber hybrid" package used last year, or the "big nickel," it will be very difficult for an offence to plan a solid scheme against our multi-wide (3 or more WR) defense.
Keep in mind we still have Charles Gordon and added Benny Sapp, plus there is talk that Tyrell Johnson can possibly play some CB..............We have not even scratched the surface of the possibility of say....Jared Allen dropping into zone on a zone blitz.
Leslie Frasier and his amazing scheming.
This is going to be great!


You still hav a few naysayers on here who can't see the picture but they are fun to pick on as they really think they can make an arguement that the sky is falling.

I would list them but you will figure them out on your own I am sure.
;D


http://rollandrock.typepad.com/davidbach/images/2007/04/03/koolaidlarge.jpg

Yes Mar, I see you're getting in line with the rank in file in calling anybody who disagrees at all nay sayers and chicken littles.
;D

Marrdro
05-07-2008, 04:54 AM
"Schutz" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"A2-D8" wrote:






I think the LB who struggled in coverage at times last year was Greenway, he simply lookes like a young player.
Leber seems to be the less atheletic of the LB's but his head for the game makes up for that.

e
I went to college at the University of South Dakota which is located in Leber's home town.
He's a legend there, along with his 2 older brothers.
I worked at a bar with his best bud from high school so I have met Leber a few times......very nice guy, down to earth, midwest guy.

Also very smart which is evident on the field.



Thanks for the insight my friend.

My take on Chad is that he did a pretty good job (all things considered) as a first year starter (2nd year in the league) and those struggles will be somewhat non existant this year much the same way as I anticipate TJ, Cook, McCauley, Gordon etc will struggle less because of the on field experience they got last year coupled with some indepth film study during this offseason.

Ben, on the other hand will be able to make some minor adjustments but he is about as good as he will ever get, which by the way, is good enough in certain situations.


Agreed on all counts.
This LB crew has only one year togehter under its belt and they still played well.
Greenway should only get better.
Add Allen and therefore the ability to cover instead of blitz as a LB, and this D will be fun to watch.


You just made a late night move on the ole spreadsheet as well.

Great post my friend.

;D


Sweet!!
Starting to really enjoy PP.O.
Love some good Vikiings talk.
Anyway........ I think whatever Nickel package suits the situation (O-personnnel, down and distance, etc...) we will have a number of answers.
A standard nickel with McCauley playing for Leber, the "Leber hybrid" package used last year, or the "big nickel," it will be very difficult for an offence to plan a solid scheme against our multi-wide (3 or more WR) defense.
Keep in mind we still have Charles Gordon and added Benny Sapp, plus there is talk that Tyrell Johnson can possibly play some CB..............We have not even scratched the surface of the possibility of say....Jared Allen dropping into zone on a zone blitz.
Leslie Frasier and his amazing scheming.
This is going to be great!



You still hav a few naysayers on here who can't see the picture but they are fun to pick on as they really think they can make an arguement that the sky is falling.

I would list them but you will figure them out on your own I am sure.

;D


http://rollandrock.typepad.com/davidbach/images/2007/04/03/koolaidlarge.jpg

Yes Mar, I see you're getting in line with the rank in file in calling anybody who disagrees at all nay sayers and chicken littles.

;D

Hell I'm not in line I am leading the fricken pack.

By the way, I love the big fat Koolaid guy.
;D

digital420
05-07-2008, 05:20 AM
honestly the only reason i can see us going to a 3 safety formation is to employ the,
StopSign defence.
it would allow for 2 much open center space for quick dumps. but not allow yac, or anything over 3-5 yrds.

could be good for a 4th qtr drive killing time eating D. esp if we get coverage sacs from it.

DiGiTaL

V-Unit
05-08-2008, 09:19 AM
I guess I could see us using Big Nickle instead of a prevent defense, or maybe it is just a way of saying we have the ability to rotate 2 different players in at nickleback. However, during the run I would rather see an LB in there, and during the pass McCauley is a better option right now. Against pass catching TEs it might work, but Johnson is only 4 pounds heavier than McCauley.

Mr Anderson
05-08-2008, 09:35 AM
"V" wrote:


I guess I could see us using Big Nickle instead of a prevent defense, or maybe it is just a way of saying we have the ability to rotate 2 different players in at nickleback. However, during the run I would rather see an LB in there, and during the pass McCauley is a better option right now. Against pass catching TEs it might work, but Johnson is only 4 pounds heavier than McCauley.



Really? In the prevent you want as much cover skills, and speed on the field as possible, typically 4 corners at the line, one LB, and 3 safeties deep.

V-Unit
05-08-2008, 11:01 AM
"Mr" wrote:


"V" wrote:


I guess I could see us using Big Nickle instead of a prevent defense, or maybe it is just a way of saying we have the ability to rotate 2 different players in at nickleback. However, during the run I would rather see an LB in there, and during the pass McCauley is a better option right now. Against pass catching TEs it might work, but Johnson is only 4 pounds heavier than McCauley.



Really? In the prevent you want as much cover skills, and speed on the field as possible, typically 4 corners at the line, one LB, and 3 safeties deep.



Yeah, that is the typical definition of a prevent defense, but I think the scheme is broken. It has no ability to stop underneath routes, nobody who can match up against an effective TE, and no ability to put pressure on the passer.

As long as you play your DBs 5-7 yards off of the line of scrimmage, I think a formation like the Big Nickle is just as effective. You have two LBs who can take away underneath routes, an extra safety to put on that TE, and still have 4 linemen to try to get to the QB. The zone responsibilities would not be
exactly like a cover 2, but personnel-wise I think it works.

mountainviking
05-08-2008, 01:14 PM
The prevent should be renamed, "I know you're going to score, so I'm just going to try and slow you down some"

Seriously, that defense hasn't worked for years.
Even with a 2 TD lead, you're just one elusive, YAC reciever away from losing the game.
Ex, Steve Smith or Devin Hester.
D'oh!


I like the idea of an updated version.
Three S back, or "Umbrella," defense (was that you KevinK?) doesn't seem all bad to me.
It still gives you 4 rushing lineman, 2 cover corners outside, and 2 LBs playing the short to mid routes inside...in addition to your deep 3.
The outside Ss would be expected to step up in the event the WR's routes brought the CBs out of their outside zones.
I would say the MS would be expected to stay back (last line) until he's sure he's diagnosed the play.

Then you could always have one or both of your DE's play outside/drop back some to stuff a screen if you saw it coming too.

I actually think all our LBs are underrated.
Well, except Greenway, but I expect him to grow with experience.
I two years of being a Viking Leber has managed 115 tkls, 8 sacks, 2 INTs, 5 FFs, 9 passDs, and a TD.
Not too bad in my book.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/302071