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nikoli
02-04-2008, 11:58 AM
is a lot better than a lot of you gave them credit for. The same Patriot Oline that so many of your were pimping got ravaged by the same Dline that our Oline stoned for four quarters. That's right, our Oline manhandled the NYG Dline. The only time the NYG DL got after Tarvaris was when Tarvaris held the ball too long. Otherwise our OL did a stellar job against an extremely talented DL.

Now I'm sure the excuses will come flying out of the woodwork here. But the bottom line is that our OL didn't look that bad all season. Is our OL the best? Nope, but it's pretty darn good and it's time all the haters give credit where credit is due.

I would also agree with the post below that DE is our biggest need. Get Suggs in here and get him here NOW!!!

Marrdro
02-04-2008, 12:04 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


is a lot better than a lot of you gave them credit for. The same Patriot Oline that so many of your were pimping got ravaged by the same Dline that our Oline stoned for four quarters. That's right, our Oline manhandled the NYG Dline. The only time the NYG DL got after Tarvaris was when Tarvaris held the ball too long. Otherwise our OL did a stellar job against an extremely talented DL.

Now I'm sure the excuses will come flying out of the woodwork here. But the bottom line is that our OL didn't look that bad all season. Is our OL the best? Nope, but it's pretty darn good and it's time all the haters give credit where credit is due.

I would also agree with the post below that DE is our biggest need. Get Suggs in here and get him here NOW!!!

You still trying to sell this.
;D

Gotta give ya credit. At least you defend your points.

snowinapril
02-04-2008, 12:05 PM
The Giants were a different team at times this season.
They didn't get really motivated until late, maybe it was the last game of the season.


We will see.


Our O-line is good, but to span the comparison leaves a lot of variables in the middle.

I wish it was that easy of a measuring stick.

Json
02-04-2008, 12:11 PM
If the Giants can beat the Patriots in the SB there should be NO EXCUSE for the Vikings to never go and in win the entire thing within my lifetime!!!
The Giants have given me hope, which is a tough pill to swallow considering I HATE THE GIANTS!!!


As for our O-Line, somebody said it best....the Giants where a different team late in the season and more importantly in the playoffs.
Our O-Line is dominant at times but the Vikes MUST make some changes on that defensive line of ours.
Udeze has gotta come in and relieve a player on downs but can not start!
E. James can also go considering the guy has done jack crap since he arrived to the team besides get injured again, and again, and again.
Suggs would be a nice addition but we know Chilly much better then that...he will draft the guys he wants and then go sign a 3rd string DE with more money then 80% of the starters in the league.

snowinapril
02-04-2008, 12:16 PM
All parts have to work to be successful.
We can have the best O-line in the universe but without the rest of the team hitting all cylinders, we can't accomplish team greatness.
A defensive pass rush from the D-line would be an added bonus and another step towards that team greatness.

Json
02-04-2008, 12:19 PM
As for our O-Line, somebody said it best....the Giants where a different team late in the season and more importantly in the playoffs.
Our O-Line is dominant at times but the Vikes MUST make some changes on that defensive line of ours.
Udeze has gotta come in and relieve a player on downs but can not start!
E. James can also go considering the guy has done jack crap since he arrived to the team besides get injured again, and again, and again.
Suggs would be a nice addition but we know Chilly much better then that...he will draft the guys he wants and then go sign a 3rd string DE with more money then 80% of the starters in the league.

To better verify my point above....whats the name of our TE again???

Marrdro
02-04-2008, 12:26 PM
"Json" wrote:


If the Giants can beat the Patriots in the SB there should be NO EXCUSE for the Vikings to never go and in win the entire thing within my lifetime!!!
The Giants have given me hope, which is a tough pill to swallow considering I HATE THE GIANTS!!!


As for our O-Line, somebody said it best....the Giants where a different team late in the season and more importantly in the playoffs.
Our O-Line is dominant at times but the Vikes MUST make some changes on that defensive line of ours.
Udeze has gotta come in and relieve a player on downs but can not start!
E. James can also go considering the guy has done jack crap since he arrived to the team besides get injured again, and again, and again.
Suggs would be a nice addition but we know Chilly much better then that...he will draft the guys he wants and then go sign a 3rd string DE with more money then 80% of the starters in the league.

I think we have pretty much put it to bed that the Chiller really doesn't make that call my friend.

Several really good links out there that actually lay out who does what when it comes to getting talent on the team, but suffice it to say, the Chillers role isn't as significant as you see to believe.

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=41952.0

nikoli
02-04-2008, 12:29 PM
I knew the "different team" thing would come up. So I might remind you guys that this is the same team that sacked McNabb like 10 times and hit him another 15 times... in like week 3 or 4.

Prophet
02-04-2008, 12:31 PM
Even the most myopic fan of the NFL would have to give the offensive line of the team that won the 2007 rushing title some credit.

Marrdro
02-04-2008, 12:36 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


Even the most myopic fan of the NFL would have to give the offensive line of the team that won the 2007 rushing title some credit.

I think the outcome of the last thread we beat this to death in was that most agreed we were pretty damn good against the run but struggled at times with pass blocking.

I for one believe it is mostly related to the C and QB's ability to recognize and then make pre-snap adjustments to blitz packages (ala the last play of the season).

Both Cook (Birks adjustment) and AD (TJ's adjustment) blocked the same guy and let the blitzer through.

Most fans cannot understand that national press coverage regarding our teams running ability associated with the OL play has nothing to do with it pass blocking prowess.

jmcdon00
02-04-2008, 12:43 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


is a lot better than a lot of you gave them credit for. The same Patriot Oline that so many of your were pimping got ravaged by the same Dline that our Oline stoned for four quarters. That's right, our Oline manhandled the NYG Dline. The only time the NYG DL got after Tarvaris was when Tarvaris held the ball too long. Otherwise our OL did a stellar job against an extremely talented DL.

Now I'm sure the excuses will come flying out of the woodwork here. But the bottom line is that our OL didn't look that bad all season. Is our OL the best? Nope, but it's pretty darn good and it's time all the haters give credit where credit is due.

I would also agree with the post below that DE is our biggest need. Get Suggs in here and get him here NOW!!!

Our offensive line is one of the best in the NFL. They are the best in the running game, that is why the players we have were brought in. Hutch is a top run blocker, Richardson is a top run blocking fb, the TE's all excel at run blocking. Pass blocking has not been as good, but I don't think a major weakness on the team.

Saying we had great protection for one game does not impress me much. By that logic the Vikings were the best team in the NFL because they beat the giants. Unfortunetly 5 other teams also beat the Giants. Any team can beat any team in the nfl. The vikings were beat 8 times this year, in some of those the QB did not have much time, even though the D-line was not as good.

nikoli
02-04-2008, 01:26 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


is a lot better than a lot of you gave them credit for. The same Patriot Oline that so many of your were pimping got ravaged by the same Dline that our Oline stoned for four quarters. That's right, our Oline manhandled the NYG Dline. The only time the NYG DL got after Tarvaris was when Tarvaris held the ball too long. Otherwise our OL did a stellar job against an extremely talented DL.

Now I'm sure the excuses will come flying out of the woodwork here. But the bottom line is that our OL didn't look that bad all season. Is our OL the best? Nope, but it's pretty darn good and it's time all the haters give credit where credit is due.

I would also agree with the post below that DE is our biggest need. Get Suggs in here and get him here NOW!!!

Our offensive line is one of the best in the NFL. They are the best in the running game, that is why the players we have were brought in. Hutch is a top run blocker, Richardson is a top run blocking fb, the TE's all excel at run blocking. Pass blocking has not been as good, but I don't think a major weakness on the team.

Saying we had great protection for one game does not impress me much. By that logic the Vikings were the best team in the NFL because they beat the giants. Unfortunetly 5 other teams also beat the Giants. Any team can beat any team in the nfl. The vikings were beat 8 times this year, in some of those the QB did not have much time, even though the D-line was not as good.


We had great protection for more than one game. The point is that we stoned the best pass rush for 4 quarters. That's impressive any way you slice it.

Marrdro
02-04-2008, 01:54 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


We had great protection for more than one game. The point is that we stoned the best pass rush for 4 quarters. That's impressive any way you slice it.

Is that why we are ranked 20th with 38 Sacks allowed?
Oh wait, I think you say that is all the QB's fault.

http://www.fantasytailgate.com/O-LINE.html

I think were alot of confusion comes from (as I've said repeatedly) is that alot of pages (see link) give huge props to run blocking but fail to accurately reflect pass blocking problems.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/JasonWinter/130337


The Vikings rank 6th on the list, thanks in large part to their league-leading 5.33 yards per carry, which netted them 50 points. They were 7th worst in pass protection, though, giving up a sack on 8.09% of their QB's dropbacks. This difference, though, is the perfect platform for pointing out another of the system's possible flaws.


Do we have talent on the OL?
Sure.
Do they do a good job executing the Zone Blocking Scheme? Sure.
Do they need help in the Man-to-man Pass Blocking?
Sure.

Will they get better?
Sure.


a.
Cook, Herrara seem to work well together.

b.
Cook will be better next year. Hell he did OK this year after being thrown to the wolves.
c.
Birk will have a better understanding of shift line calls during audibles and pre-snap adjustments.
d.
TJ will be better at reading Blitz packages, getting through his reads faster and getting rid of the ball faster.
e.
AD will be better at picking up the blitz and will be able to stay out for more pass plays which kindof telegraphed the play calling this year.

Long story short, they are a work in progress that has shown some flashes of what can be and of course some bad as well but to think that they are better than a work in progress just because a team we beat won the SB is kindof a reach my friend.

Again, I gotta give ya props for standing by your points though.

;D

ultravikingfan
02-04-2008, 02:36 PM
By watching the 2 teams in the Super Bowl play means nothing.
Every team is different.
Different players coaches, schemes, play, etc.


So, I have no idea what good it does to compare those 2 teams O Lines to ours does.

Marrdro
02-04-2008, 02:40 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


By watching the 2 teams in the Super Bowl play means nothing.
Every team is different.
Different players coaches, schemes, play, etc.


So, I have no idea what good it does to compare those 2 teams O Lines to ours does.

Hey, how about giving the guy props for atleast defending his one stance he has had so far.


(JK
;D) not sure what gets into me sometimes.

nikoli
02-04-2008, 02:49 PM
From your link. Can't say I'm completely surprised that you left it out.

I don't know why anyone would suggest the only good game the OL had in pass protection was at NYG.

That said, the team's lousy showing in pass protection can squarely be laid at the stone feet of Kelly Holcomb, who went down 12.6% of the time. The seemingly more-mobile Brooks Bollinger, in 57 dropbacks, was sacked 50 times (12.3%) while Tarvaris Jackson only took a sack 6.1% of the time (though Vikings fans wish he would have taken a few more). It's certain that the play of the team's immobile quarterbacks played a big part in the O-line's poor showing here and therefore deserves some of the blame.

And that's where a lot of people get hung up. A QB sack is almost invariably laid at the feet of the offensive line, while big rushing yards are almost invariably credited to the running back. In a single game, the differences might be noted, but when a team gives up 50 sacks on a season, people blame the line, while if a running back averages 5.5 yards per carry, people lavish credit on the player.

In truth, the quarterback is partially to blame for the sacks and the line deserves credit for the running attack

nikoli
02-04-2008, 02:52 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


By watching the 2 teams in the Super Bowl play means nothing.
Every team is different.
Different players coaches, schemes, play, etc.


So, I have no idea what good it does to compare those 2 teams O Lines to ours does.






Are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult? I know it's offseason and all but the point is pretty obvious. Our Oline played the Giants Dline exceptionally well. Just giving credit where credit is due. Seems like a lot of folks here think the Oline is a problem area. This just further proves that it's not nearly as doomy and gloomy as those folks suggest.

Marrdro
02-04-2008, 02:52 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


From your link. Can't say I'm completely surprised that you left it out.

I don't know why anyone would suggest the only good game the OL had in pass protection was at NYG.

That said, the team's lousy showing in pass protection can squarely be laid at the stone feet of Kelly Holcomb, who went down 12.6% of the time. The seemingly more-mobile Brooks Bollinger, in 57 dropbacks, was sacked 50 times (12.3%) while Tarvaris Jackson only took a sack 6.1% of the time (though Vikings fans wish he would have taken a few more). It's certain that the play of the team's immobile quarterbacks played a big part in the O-line's poor showing here and therefore deserves some of the blame.

And that's where a lot of people get hung up. A QB sack is almost invariably laid at the feet of the offensive line, while big rushing yards are almost invariably credited to the running back. In a single game, the differences might be noted, but when a team gives up 50 sacks on a season, people blame the line, while if a running back averages 5.5 yards per carry, people lavish credit on the player.

In truth, the quarterback is partially to blame for the sacks and the line deserves credit for the running attack

We try not to quote the whole thread on here.


If I wanted to decieve I wouldn't have given you the link in my post.

Marrdro
02-04-2008, 02:55 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


By watching the 2 teams in the Super Bowl play means nothing.
Every team is different.
Different players coaches, schemes, play, etc.


So, I have no idea what good it does to compare those 2 teams O Lines to ours does.






Are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult? I know it's offseason and all but the point is pretty obvious. Our Oline played the Giants Dline exceptionally well. Just giving credit where credit is due. Seems like a lot of folks here think the Oline is a problem area. This just further proves that it's not nearly as doomy and gloomy as those folks suggest.

You ever feel like you are fighting a loosing battle.
;D

No one is saying the line sucks.
We are just saying that we have problems in the passing area and it is crazy to try to base your argument on a game that has nothing to do with the lines play during the whole season.

cogitans
02-04-2008, 03:06 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


From your link. Can't say I'm completely surprised that you left it out.

I don't know why anyone would suggest the only good game the OL had in pass protection was at NYG.

That said, the team's lousy showing in pass protection can squarely be laid at the stone feet of Kelly Holcomb, who went down 12.6% of the time. The seemingly more-mobile Brooks Bollinger, in 57 dropbacks, was sacked 50 times (12.3%) while Tarvaris Jackson only took a sack 6.1% of the time (though Vikings fans wish he would have taken a few more). It's certain that the play of the team's immobile quarterbacks played a big part in the O-line's poor showing here and therefore deserves some of the blame.

And that's where a lot of people get hung up. A QB sack is almost invariably laid at the feet of the offensive line, while big rushing yards are almost invariably credited to the running back. In a single game, the differences might be noted, but when a team gives up 50 sacks on a season, people blame the line, while if a running back averages 5.5 yards per carry, people lavish credit on the player.

In truth, the quarterback is partially to blame for the sacks and the line deserves credit for the running attack
That's a lot.

Zeus
02-04-2008, 03:09 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


By watching the 2 teams in the Super Bowl play means nothing.
Every team is different.
Different players coaches, schemes, play, etc.


So, I have no idea what good it does to compare those 2 teams O Lines to ours does.


Are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult? I know it's offseason and all but the point is pretty obvious. Our Oline played the Giants Dline exceptionally well. Just giving credit where credit is due. Seems like a lot of folks here think the Oline is a problem area. This just further proves that it's not nearly as doomy and gloomy as those folks suggest.


Just because "a lot of folks here think" something, does not make it true.

=Z=

ultravikingfan
02-04-2008, 03:31 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


By watching the 2 teams in the Super Bowl play means nothing.
Every team is different.
Different players coaches, schemes, play, etc.


So, I have no idea what good it does to compare those 2 teams O Lines to ours does.






Are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult? I know it's offseason and all but the point is pretty obvious. Our Oline played the Giants Dline exceptionally well. Just giving credit where credit is due. Seems like a lot of folks here think the Oline is a problem area. This just further proves that it's not nearly as doomy and gloomy as those folks suggest.


No, I am not trying to be difficult?
Are you trying to throw shit at the wall and hope some of it sticks?

I could care less about the arguement with our O-Line play.
I am saying you cannot draw any conclusions after watching the game last night.


Keep digging though...it's highly entertaining.

Zeus
02-04-2008, 04:04 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


No, I am not trying to be difficult?
Are you trying to throw shit at the wall and hope some of it sticks?

I could care less about the arguement with our O-Line play.
I am saying you cannot draw any conclusions after watching the game last night.



Yes you can!

* Tom Brady is hunky, but not perfect.
I think I love him all the more because of it.
* Junior Seau and Randy Moss, like all veterans without rings, do not DESERVE them any more than the lowliest rookie.
Only the winners deserve anything.
* The best WR on the Patriots roster is not a SuperFreak, unless being a short, really fast white guy with great hands welcomes one into the club.
* Super Bowl commercials are overrated.
* My wife's chili is not.
* Moving my TV was the right call.
* I just knew the NFL would find a way to close that roof.

And, finally,
* On February 3rd, 2008, the New York Giants played a better single football game than the New England Patriots.
Because of that - and due to the fact that that game was the Super Bowl game, the championship contest for the National Football League - the New York Giants are the winners and, thus, the Champions of the 2007-08 NFL season.

Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly nothing having to do with any of the teams who did NOT play last night.

=Z=

ThorSPL
02-04-2008, 04:48 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


No, I am not trying to be difficult?
Are you trying to throw shit at the wall and hope some of it sticks?

I could care less about the arguement with our O-Line play.
I am saying you cannot draw any conclusions after watching the game last night.



Yes you can!

* Tom Brady is hunky, but not perfect.
I think I love him all the more because of it.
* Junior Seau and Randy Moss, like all veterans without rings, do not DESERVE them any more than the lowliest rookie.
Only the winners deserve anything.
* The best WR on the Patriots roster is not a SuperFreak, unless being a short, really fast white guy with great hands welcomes one into the club.
* Super Bowl commercials are overrated.
* My wife's chili is not.
* Moving my TV was the right call.
* I just knew the NFL would find a way to close that roof.

And, finally,
* On February 3rd, 2008, the New York Giants played a better single football game than the New England Patriots.
Because of that - and due to the fact that that game was the Super Bowl game, the championship contest for the National Football League - the New York Giants are the winners and, thus, the Champions of the 2007-08 NFL season.

Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly nothing having to do with any of the teams who did NOT play last night.

=Z=


Somehow, I think that may qualify for superfreak status...


Great post, BTW!

ultravikingfan
02-04-2008, 04:58 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


No, I am not trying to be difficult?
Are you trying to throw shit at the wall and hope some of it sticks?

I could care less about the arguement with our O-Line play.
I am saying you cannot draw any conclusions after watching the game last night.



Yes you can!

* Tom Brady is hunky, but not perfect.
I think I love him all the more because of it.
* Junior Seau and Randy Moss, like all veterans without rings, do not DESERVE them any more than the lowliest rookie.
Only the winners deserve anything.
* The best WR on the Patriots roster is not a SuperFreak, unless being a short, really fast white guy with great hands welcomes one into the club.
* Super Bowl commercials are overrated.
* My wife's chili is not.
* Moving my TV was the right call.
* I just knew the NFL would find a way to close that roof.

And, finally,
* On February 3rd, 2008, the New York Giants played a better single football game than the New England Patriots.
Because of that - and due to the fact that that game was the Super Bowl game, the championship contest for the National Football League - the New York Giants are the winners and, thus, the Champions of the 2007-08 NFL season.

Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly nothing having to do with any of the teams who did NOT play last night.

=Z=


Pertaining to our team.

nikoli
02-04-2008, 05:11 PM
The SB further solidifies the greatness of the '08 Giant DL this year.

If we can stuff that same DL, then we've got an OL that can play with the best of them.

Purple Floyd
02-04-2008, 06:01 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


The SB further solidifies the greatness of the '08 Giant DL this year.

If we can stuff that same DL, then we've got an OL that can play with the best of them.


If that line played against us the way they did at the end of the year, we wouldn't have handled them. ;)

PackSux!
02-04-2008, 06:20 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


The SB further solidifies the greatness of the '08 Giant DL this year.

If we can stuff that same DL, then we've got an OL that can play with the best of them.


As coach Lemaire would say, "There is no doubt".

Zeus
02-04-2008, 10:07 PM
"PackSux!" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


The SB further solidifies the greatness of the '08 Giant DL this year.

If we can stuff that same DL, then we've got an OL that can play with the best of them.


As coach Lemaire would say, "There is no doubt".


Isn't that "Der"?

LOL - guy a row behind me at the game last Wednesday did a *perfect* Lemaire imitation.
It was hilarious.

=Z=