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Webby
12-12-2004, 11:47 PM
Abound. Time for the fans to speak.

3 games left. You can take the easy way out and froth and foam, or you can suck it up like everyone else. Having courage to be a fan when we lose a game is much more rewarding and admirable than it is to listen to all these people yapping about how the sky is falling. I'd think we're 1-15 the way you people talk, not in a dog fight for the playoffs when cheering means more than booing.

Shame.

triedandtruevikesfan
12-12-2004, 11:49 PM
THANK YOU WEBBY!!!!!

poult
12-12-2004, 11:53 PM
damn right.

eastcoastvikes
12-13-2004, 12:00 AM
Thank you Webby!

vking
12-13-2004, 12:07 AM
Ra-Ra boys. Is this what you wanna see year after year? Counting down games saying we still have a chance when it shouldn't even be this way.

I'm a fan but geeze better start making some noise or things will never change. A couple games ago I may have had optomism but you're loking at history repeating itself, that simple. I know I blasted the boards with what you'd call negetivity but a more serious mind sees it as truth.

RK.
12-13-2004, 12:11 AM
I have been a Viking fan for 37 years. I will suck it up again on.....probably Thursday. :) And if it were just this game we lost I would suck it up on Tuesday. However its losing 5 of the last 7 that makes the turn around on sucking it up a little slower..Fortunatly I have had a lot more experience sucking it up than most on this board. I wish I could say it gets easier....but it doesn't. :tongue:

If we weren't complaining there would be very few posts on this board lol. How many ways is there to say "we will get them next week" ? :cheers:

ADubya26
12-13-2004, 12:18 AM
I will always be a Vikings fan no matter if they are 0-16 or Superbowl Champs. However, I know talent when I see it and I see a bad coach when I see one. We have both and I want the most out of my team, not nail biting at the end of every season. We should be up there with the Eagles and the Falcons as the NFC elite. We should not collapse after the first half of the season. Im sorry if I sound pessimistic but sometimes you have to be honest with yourself and realize that something has to give in order for us to win a Bowl. I will be at the bar on Sunday with Vikes gear on again cheering us and going nuts, but I would be far more optimistic if we made some big changes in ownership and coaching. I mean Culpepper, Moss and crew are not going to be young and thriving forever and you have to strike while the iron is hot. I think you guys/gals will realize that Tice was not good when we get a real coach next year. Everything happens for a reason and maybe Randy's pass was a blessing in disguise.

dan3ski
12-13-2004, 12:28 AM
All I can say is the fans at the stadium were booing the Vikings defense. what more is there to say?

TheAnimal93
12-13-2004, 12:38 AM
the only thing that i am negative about is that frickin playcalling, cant say any thing positive about that. and i agree with rk.....our next weeks are running out again, and we were 8-5 last year at this time, and went 1-2 down the last three...........WHO WOULDNT BE A LITTLE PISSED!!!????? and anxious......and not really happy about the way the team is run on game day or anytime during the week i guess also. i'm not buying until the vikes close the deal. which looks like it will be another year to hear how much of choke artists we are. now we are on the road this week coming up. got any good ones for us nancies to hang our hat on this week? WEEK TO WEEK YOU HAVE TO "PUT" THE PLAYERS IN THE BEST SPOT TO WIN THE GAME. that has not been done!!!!!!

XTAP59
12-13-2004, 12:46 AM
"webmaster" wrote:

Abound. Time for the fans to speak.

3 games left. You can take the easy way out and froth and foam, or you can suck it up like everyone else. Having courage to be a fan when we lose a game is much more rewarding and admirable than it is to listen to all these people yapping about how the sky is falling. I'd think we're 1-15 the way you people talk, not in a dog fight for the playoffs when cheering means more than booing.

Shame.

Alas, letting the fans speak means absolutely jack.....
Red MCCombs owns the team and he wants Tice as the coach because Tice comes cheap. Say what you will about Tice, maybe you love him, hate him, or feel lukewarm about him. It doesn't mean anything because we are only fans and Red knows that the fans will blindly follow the team no matter what. Field a lousy team...So what. The stands will still be full. The jersets will still sell, Red will still receive his TV rights millions, and he will continue to make money. All is good for Red. Winning the superbowl means nothing for him for he does not own the stadium so his profits will not go up. This is why he doesn't go out and spend to the cap limit. He can immediately pocket those millions as proven profit.

Until Red is gone, this thread will continue.

casper
12-13-2004, 01:10 AM
Webby :notworthy: A fricken MEN

diesavike
12-13-2004, 01:22 AM
"casper" wrote:

Webby :notworthy: A fricken MEN

Ditto

cajunvike
12-13-2004, 02:11 AM
Don't judge too harshly lest ye be judged! Having been a Vikings fan (the first and ONLY NFL team that I have ever rooted for) for 30+ years, I think that I have earned the right to criticize a little bit, especially when the Vikes have failed to close the deal on several occasions. Now don't get me wrong, being a true fan means that you have got to stick with your team through thick and thin, but the "thin" is wearing thin. It is time for the ownership and management to stand and deliver, just as the fans have done for 40+ years. Just because the diehard fans will never give up on the team is no reason for the powers that be to take that for granted. They owe us the very best players, coaches and management that can reasonably be allocated to the team...anything less and they are the ones that should be questioned. Fans like most of the dedicated posters here (and I have witnessed some incredibly dedicated Vikings fans in the time that I have been here) deserve NOTHING LESS!

Forever a Vikings fan...cajunvike

Wyndy11
12-13-2004, 08:17 AM
Go Webby....you tell um

Webby
12-13-2004, 08:35 AM
"vking" wrote:

Ra-Ra boys. Is this what you wanna see year after year? Counting down games saying we still have a chance when it shouldn't even be this way.

I'm a fan but geeze better start making some noise or things will never change. A couple games ago I may have had optomism but you're loking at history repeating itself, that simple. I know I blasted the boards with what you'd call negetivity but a more serious mind sees it as truth.

Well, if you believe that making irrational belly-aching comments will change the team and force Red to sell, I have some land in the Artic to sell you. Guaranteed to bring a Superbowl. After all, we'd have the secret weapon no-one else has: artic training ground. Yeehaa!

If you believe calling for a top tier QB to be fired, you're in lala land. If you believe Tice called the Moss pass, you're watching Lacrosse. If you tell me you would have been pissed even if the play worked, cmon: I'm not buying that tonic. We would have been game winning geniuses had it worked.

Be consistent. Being let down and angry like most of us are right now is fine. Expressing that anger is all good. But for all things holy, think about it.

The team has problems. Now we're all on the same page. But I look at the biggest flame threads and they come from those who guaranteed Superbowl when we were 5-1.

I guess 31 teams repeat history every year, year after year. They put together back-to-back non Superbowl winning teams. Fire the whole lot of them! Worthless!

Now that, sir, is truth. Didn't say you had to be happy about it.

shockzilla
12-13-2004, 08:45 AM
May I be the voice of reason here Webby? As a long-time Viking fan (almost 30 years), I have seen the ups and downs of this team. I just think all these "Negative Nancies" are trying to be realistic. And right now, I'm one myself. I am SO sick and tired of seeing this team underachieve for the last ten years that it's getting ridiculous. It just seems to me that what ails this team is so SIMPLE that people wonder why the HECK we get frustrated! Anyway, please go lenient on us - we're just sick and tired of the underachieving!

casper
12-13-2004, 09:00 AM
"shockzilla" wrote:

May I be the voice of reason here Webby? As a long-time Viking fan (almost 30 years), I have seen the ups and downs of this team. I just think all these "Negative Nancies" are trying to be realistic. And right now, I'm one myself. I am SO sick and tired of seeing this team underachieve for the last ten years that it's getting ridiculous. It just seems to me that what ails this team is so SIMPLE that people wonder why the HECK we get frustrated! Anyway, please go lenient on us - we're just sick and tired of the underachieving!

:shock:

TheAnimal93
12-13-2004, 09:00 AM
"cajunvike" wrote:

Don't judge too harshly lest ye be judged! Having been a Vikings fan (the first and ONLY NFL team that I have ever rooted for) for 30+ years, I think that I have earned the right to criticize a little bit, especially when the Vikes have failed to close the deal on several occasions. Now don't get me wrong, being a true fan means that you have got to stick with your team through thick and thin, but the "thin" is wearing thin. It is time for the ownership and management to stand and deliver, just as the fans have done for 40+ years. Just because the diehard fans will never give up on the team is no reason for the powers that be to take that for granted. They owe us the very best players, coaches and management that can reasonably be allocated to the team...anything less and they are the ones that should be questioned. Fans like most of the dedicated posters here (and I have witnessed some incredibly dedicated Vikings fans in the time that I have been here) deserve NOTHING LESS!

Forever a Vikings fan...cajunvike

well, i am not trying to make enemies in here.......but i have to call all you candy coating, yea saying, rainbow brite and my little pony lovers of your vikings out. i dont see it. i have been trying to stay positive throughout the past couple of months, but have been sucker-punched too many times to get up off the mat and not bitch a little. i dont think it is fair to CRITICIZE the nancies for not being happy AT THIS POINT IN THE SEASON. it surely looks, smells, and tastes like last year. instead of JUST ripping us, give us something to hang the ol vikes hat on. if you can. i am willing to look at anything POSITIVE right now. i have been a viking fan since 1970.......34 years. i have never waivered. people ask me all the time, well root for your other team. OTHER TEAM?????????? what, are you crazy? there is the vikes and only the vikes!!!! i have seen it all, and have watched every game since 95, with the sunday ticket. i have spent hundreds of dollars on vikings gear. i am sure that "I" am loyal. i was so pissed when the vikes moved to HHH, and i dont like what is going on with my team. i have been to 3 games that have been close to me and plan on going to more when time and money allows, whether or not they are 3-10 or 7-6 and limping into the end of the season i will go. and thanks cajun, you said much better than i, i am too rough around the edges with a biting tongue.

eastcoastvikes
12-13-2004, 09:04 AM
Being a littile bit of a newbie compared to a lot of you (Only 10 years of Viking Fandom) I guess I can't understand your level of frustration. However, I will say this, based on what I have figured out winning out still equals a division title. I would be lying if I said I wasn't amazed at the stupidity of the playcalling in the redzone yesterday, however at the same time I do like that they were agressive. That is what gets me a little bit, when the Vikings throw the ball downfield a lot of people are upset because they were too agressive but when they don't they complain about that too. Except for that reverse I have no problem with the playcalling yesterday. Could the game have gone better? Yes! However, it would not surprise me to see the Vikes play the Seahawks again in the playoffs because someone has to make it. Personally I feel that this was a tough loss to take but it really amazes me how much people are making out of it, it is ONE loss, let's move on and cheer on the Vikes against the Motor City Kitties. A win next week sets up a pretty nice Christmas Eve matchup for the NFC North title! SKOL VIKES!!!!

whackthepack
12-13-2004, 09:08 AM
"shockzilla" wrote:

May I be the voice of reason here Webby? As a long-time Viking fan (almost 30 years), I have seen the ups and downs of this team. I just think all these "Negative Nancies" are trying to be realistic. And right now, I'm one myself. I am SO sick and tired of seeing this team underachieve for the last ten years that it's getting ridiculous. It just seems to me that what ails this team is so SIMPLE that people wonder why the HECK we get frustrated! Anyway, please go lenient on us - we're just sick and tired of the underachieving!


Took the words right out of mouth Shockzilla!!

A 4th quarter drive with 2 minutes left in the game. You are down by 4 points and have driven to the red zone, and they try a trick play with a receiver throwing into double coverage in the endzone. Come On, who is calling these plays!
:x :cry: :( :shaking: :pale:

Webby
12-13-2004, 09:25 AM
"shockzilla" wrote:

May I be the voice of reason here Webby? As a long-time Viking fan (almost 30 years), I have seen the ups and downs of this team. I just think all these "Negative Nancies" are trying to be realistic. And right now, I'm one myself. I am SO sick and tired of seeing this team underachieve for the last ten years that it's getting ridiculous. It just seems to me that what ails this team is so SIMPLE that people wonder why the HECK we get frustrated! Anyway, please go lenient on us - we're just sick and tired of the underachieving!

To quote myself: "I guess 31 teams repeat history every year, year after year. They put together back-to-back non Superbowl winning teams. Fire the whole lot of them! Worthless!"

Why is anyone in the NFL a fan? I guess maybe looking at the game from a larger perspective is simply unacceptable to folks who walk into each season seeing Superbowl. Those are the candy coating folks, and the ones likely to be let down.

As I said: fine to be angry, fine to be upset. I'm terribly let down as well. Who isn't? But the whitewashing generalizations are just as ridiculous as those who call for Pep's dismissal.

There's a difference between being upset or let down, and fire-bombing the organization with half-cocked theories. Right?

Remember all the fans calling for Bud Grant to be fired cause he couldn't win the big one during those years? Year after year of let down? And here are some of you yapping the Tice must go and oh boy bring back Grant. I'll let you, faithful fans, distill the lesson.

whackthepack
12-13-2004, 09:52 AM
Webby, it's not just the superbowl! It is creating a team and improving as you go. Not 3 years into a plan, and we are in the same position that we were when Tice took over as head coach. He is the person that said he had a 3 year plan, the 2nd year to make the playoff (failed), third year to win the superbowl (don't think that is happening)!

Look at Moss and Culpepper, how many more years are you going to have this combination at a peak level!

DoubleDown11
12-13-2004, 10:14 AM
"shockzilla" wrote:

May I be the voice of reason here Webby? As a long-time Viking fan (almost 30 years), I have seen the ups and downs of this team. I just think all these "Negative Nancies" are trying to be realistic. And right now, I'm one myself. I am SO sick and tired of seeing this team underachieve for the last ten years that it's getting ridiculous. It just seems to me that what ails this team is so SIMPLE that people wonder why the HECK we get frustrated! Anyway, please go lenient on us - we're just sick and tired of the underachieving!

Thanks Shock, I have been a tad bit negative towards Tice, but after last year's collapse and this year's potential collapse, can you blame me? I think this team is better than the 98-99 Vikes that went 15-1. Thie team should be exactly like the Colts. We should be outgunning everyone, our defense is a weakness, yes, but it shouldn't matter if we turn our offense loose. Linehan did not even bothering setting up that REverse WR toss play yesterday.

I think Tice should announce that he is taking over the playcalling to save his job at today's press conference. Prove to Viking fans once and for all that he is "too legit 2 quit"

TheAnimal93
12-13-2004, 12:49 PM
webby.......please give me an opinion on linehan. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH HIS PLAY CALLING? if you are i will shutup the rest of the season about him. he is the only one that i have smashed this season. maybe there has been an off-hand comment about this or that, but for the most part it has been mostly linehan. and for the record, i am not a candy coater believing every year the vikings are going to crush the whole league. but do i go into every game thinking that the vikes "can do" ?yes!!!!! abso-frickin-lutely. and that is positive. so remember opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one and most of them stink. and i know mine stinks right now, but i surely do like to cheer rather than complain!!!!

bleedpurple
12-13-2004, 01:37 PM
WEBBY c'mon are you serious????

you can't possibly be that blinded trying to stay "positive" while trashing Faithful Vikings fans...We are being realistic and are tired of our team underachieving....A true fan loves his team in his heart and wants to see then succeed...just like a father and his son..but deep down a father knows when his son can be better...and part of being a fan is being critical of your team and being honest...If we were overachieving..I can say we overachieved...but we are underachieving..

Just Look at some of the other teams in the league...Steelers, Jags, Eagles, Panthers, Bills, Jets, and yes, even the Skins (last two weeks) lately....All these teams may not be superbowl contenders but they do have one thing in common....A tough minded coach! These teams who in the face of adversity don't quit.and have taken on their head coaches mentality as a tough minded team..The skins look like they finally get it!

NOw I like MIke Tice...but he looks as confused at key times in games as an accountant trying to fly a plane for the first time...Now I believe we have the talent even on defense but there comes a certain time when the players have to wake-up and tough it out and we have yet to do so.....I have a Viking fan for going on 18 years...and I'm only 24 years old...And have only been a Viking fan...So you say I'm not a fan? I live in DC, home of all SKINS fans so you can't tell me I aint a fan...I've never even been to Minnesota but can tell you almost anything about our team since 1987! From Wade Wilson all the way to The PEPP

Earlier comment....
AND I can say had that play worked on the reverse at the end of the Seattle game I would have still questioned the playcalling just like I did in the Dallas game throwing the ball all those times while inside the five yard line...I thought it was dumb to put try and out smart a stingy secondary and put the ball in the hands of an all pro wr instead of giving it to a MVP candidate...that's a no-brainer!!!..and I think although creative, Linehan doesn't get it! His playcalling is awful...Almost anyone can take our offense and look like a genius...DuH, we have more talent than everone but the Colts on offense..and even that's debatable...look at last week, how many times did we run that reverse, fake reverse, and reverse again....and How many times did he run that draw yesterday before he wised up and did a play action fake off of it..what 4 times???....should have come about two times sooner...

Not only is Linehan to blame but so is Cotrell, look at the Jets Defense....Did they not get a new coordinator and look at them now...You can't tell me they have more talent on D than us...Wasn't their D supposed to be the weak link this year....Now they are just better coached.....

The only credit I can give the defense is atleast they make good halftime adjustments but by then it's virtually tooo late....

In a nutshell, I think what fans are saying is if we didn't have the talent..then that would be one thing...but the talent is there....Even when we went 6-10 a few years ago we probablly should have been 8-8 or 9-7...had we not been so awful in the fourth quarter...so we are tired of the underachieving..that's all....plain and simple....you gotta respect that...

What ever the Vikings do all we ask is be consistent...If we're going to win be consistent at winning, if we are going to suck then suck real bad but it seems the only thing we are consistent at is collapsing at crunch time ......whether it's in the fourth quarter of a game or season...

We know the defense is good...look at the second half of games the past five weeks...We know the offense is good look at the majority of the season...but for some reason the players and coaches haven't gotten it done.....

Redzone offense is horrible...and we should be so much better than that....There is no excuse for having one of the best offenses in the league at going up and down between the 20's and stalling inside the 20 consistently....Look at the last two weeks...I knew from week one throwing that much inside the twenty would come back to haunt us...we just got lucky early on....

purplehorn
12-13-2004, 01:59 PM
"webmaster" wrote:

Abound. Time for the fans to speak.

I'd think we're 1-15 the way you people talk, not in a dog fight for the playoffs when cheering means more than booing.

Shame.

Said perfectly. What if the Vikes make the NFC championship? It
is possible and all the whiny hineys what will you possibly moan and
groan about? I'm sure you will think of something it's in your nature.

:santa: is watching

ItalianStallion
12-13-2004, 03:39 PM
I for one will alwas cheer for the vikes as I am sure most of the people here will. Last season was hell, and seeing this team take the exact same route that it did last year can make even the most steadfast fan question the management of the team. Really Webby that is all we are doing. I don't think I've seen one post saying: "This team sucks, I will never cheer for them again." or "screw this I am an eagles fan". As fans we all have an interest in this team and it is our RIGHT as fans to be critical of our team, just like it is our duty as fans to cheer for this team no matter what.

F*ck, just because I like the Vikings doesn't mean I have to sit here, watch us throw the season away , and like it.

I realize that there are 3 games left and we still have a good chance of making the playoffs, so I am not writing them off yet. Still, I honestly havn't seen alot from the team that suggests this is likely to happen.

RK.
12-13-2004, 04:44 PM
The upside of the criticism is I don't see many posts criticizing Moss for the throw or really any of the players. Most is directed where it belongs, with the coaching staff. The D, that had some really bad blown coverages at times because Winfield is missing, still gave us a chance to win the game. We lost because of a bone head coaching mistake. IMO many of our losses are due to bad play calling and lack of game plan or preparation by coaches. If it were just once in a while mistakes I would agree that the negative comments were just whining by complainers. But its not. The coaching falls apart at critical times in games and during the season. We are now hoping for a wild card berth instead of the division and a bye in the first round. Its not really being negative toward the Vikings to point this out IMO. A good coach who is on top of the game with a game plan would have overruled that call by his offensive coordinator.

I am still a fan, and I support the Vikes completely, and I think they will make the playoffs, and I dream of them being the underdog champs of the Super Bowl this year like Joe Namath and the Jets. However I also think our coaches need to be smacked up side the head and told to get their freakin act together to give us that chance. :thumbleft:

purplepat
12-13-2004, 05:17 PM
I've been quiet for a couple of weeks now.

I'm one of the more positive Viking fans you will ever meet. I had great expectations for this season...you know, this was the year they were finally going to turn the defense around, Marcus Robinson would take the heat off of Moss, Bennett and Smith would be an unstoppable tandem, Tice wouldn't lose to the weak sisters of the poor any more, etc., etc.

And slowly, reality has begun setting in.

To be fair, injuries have taken a signficant toll; perhaps none moreso than the injury to Moss and what it seemed to do to the unstoppable Vikings offense. Right now, 1/2 of the starting offensive line is sidelined (Birk, Rosenthal, Kleinsasser). The #1 and #3 CBs are down. Arguably, the best LB (Smith, albeit in a limited stretch), has missed about 6 straight games. On defense, the youngsters are getting where they aren't supposed to be faster than last year's slowpokes couldn't get to where they were supposed to be.

I still believe the Vikings have the talent to beat ANYONE in this league THIS SEASON, on any given Sunday. I also believe that they are inconsistent enough to be able to lose to ANYONE in this league on any given Sunday. I still believe they will make the playoffs, but it is looking more like it will be as a wild card. Winning more than one playoff game on the road will be a tall order for this team.

muchluv4smoot
12-13-2004, 05:24 PM
Some will say we the negative fans are wrong, and some will say being positive when things are clearly going down the drain is wrong. Why is being positive about us falling flat on our face for 2 straight years, being a better fan than us realistic fans that are tired of being average and underacheiving? You guys seem to think you are great fans for always saying positive things and saying we can still win the super bowl, GIVE ME A BREAK! You guys are no better fans than anyone else. Open your eyes and see the same damn thing we see every year, THE TEAM CHOKING AND FALLING FLAT ON IT'S FACE YET AGAIN!

Not that we all realize we are falling on our face, why is it wrong to talk about the reason we are doing this? I believe tice is definitely the reason for our collapses 2 straight years, so I will tell everyone that I can that he sucks. Did I not say this to start the year, before we even started the season? Sure I did. Was I not saying this, last year? Sure I was. Just because it comes after a loss, every positive fan seems to think it is an overreaction to a loss.

I am so sick of always being attacked for being realistic and be sick and tired of underacheiving. I am sorry, but when I see a team this good, playing so badly, I just can't sit here and say nothing, or that we still control our destiny, or that anything can happen while in the playoffs. There is a big problem here in minnesota and his name is mike tice. If he stays, we have no shot of playing even to our capability, NONE. He can take linehan with him too!

If we are not allowed to express our feelings, negative or not, about our team and coaches, then let me know, because I will gladly leave and let you guys live in your happy fantasy world here.

purplehorn
12-13-2004, 05:34 PM
People who like to b!tch will always B!tch can't make em happy no matter what you do so B!tch
away little b!tches it makes me realize how lucky
I am to not be a miserable hack with a glass
that is forever half empty.


OUT

muchluv4smoot
12-13-2004, 05:40 PM
[quote="purplehorn"]People who like to b!tch will always B!tch can't make em happy no matter what you do so B!tch
away little b!tches it makes me realize how lucky
I am to not be a miserable hack with a glass
that is forever half empty.


OUT[/quote


Why is calling for a coaches head, when he is clearly on the hotseat and clearly failing at his job year after year, bitching? If you work with a guy who screws up all the time and costing your company money, is it bitching if you tell the boss this empolyee should be fired, for the better of the company? I don't see a difference with the 2.

I like how everyone saying how they hate red and want him to sell the team, is alright and isn't bitching, yet this is. Again, no difference.

vikoles
12-13-2004, 05:46 PM
Love em to hate em etc.... Point is CAN we get in the p offs YET this iis nothing can we by some mircale make it to the BOWWWWLLLL please GoD!

cajunvike
12-13-2004, 06:10 PM
"vikoles" wrote:

Love em to hate em etc.... Point is CAN we get in the p offs YET this iis nothing can we by some mircale make it to the BOWWWWLLLL please GoD!

Don't want to make it to the Bowl if we aren't going to win it...Super Bowl championship or bust! :D

vikoles
12-13-2004, 06:12 PM
sorry agreed just hangin on a prayer and whim! So sorry!

Bdubya
12-13-2004, 06:15 PM
I try my hardest to stay positive with the Vikings, but when the team seems to find ways to lose, it gets old. There have been so many times that I have watched Viking games where they have a shot at the win, but stupid mistakes and playcalling prevent this from happening. Take the Eagles game for example, we could have been in a position to win that game if we didnt have the red zone turnovers.

I can never help but be disappointed by the defense that the Vikings field. Every year, I think maybe they can stop someone, maybe they will be better than the year before. But that never happens. I dont have incredibly high standards for the team, but when they never seem to improve, it can be rather upsetting.

I think Mike Tice is a great guy, and I wanted him to succeed as a coach for that very reason, but over the last two seasons he has proven that he isnt a very good coach. The only thing I ever want from the Vikings is for them to make the playoffs, so they can at least give themselves a chance, and I know they have had the talent this year and last year. So if they manage to crap out again and miss the playoffs, I think that I have every right to complain about it. If there are no fans, there is no team, so why should the fans keep quiet about a team that is underachieving, coaches who are undercoaching, and an owner that could care less about any of this?

muchluv4smoot
12-13-2004, 06:21 PM
"Bdubya" wrote:

I try my hardest to stay positive with the Vikings, but when the team seems to find ways to lose, it gets old. There have been so many times that I have watched Viking games where they have a shot at the win, but stupid mistakes and playcalling prevent this from happening. Take the Eagles game for example, we could have been in a position to win that game if we didnt have the red zone turnovers.

I can never help but be disappointed by the defense that the Vikings field. Every year, I think maybe they can stop someone, maybe they will be better than the year before. But that never happens. I dont have incredibly high standards for the team, but when they never seem to improve, it can be rather upsetting.

I think Mike Tice is a great guy, and I wanted him to succeed as a coach for that very reason, but over the last two seasons he has proven that he isnt a very good coach. The only thing I ever want from the Vikings is for them to make the playoffs, so they can at least give themselves a chance, and I know they have had the talent this year and last year. So if they manage to crap out again and miss the playoffs, I think that I have every right to complain about it. If there are no fans, there is no team, so why should the fans keep quiet about a team that is underachieving, coaches who are undercoaching, and an owner that could care less about any of this?



Now you are gonna be called a lesser fan then all the positve optimistic ones, get ready for it. They will tell you, that you are just overreacting to a loss, and that we control our own destiny, and that if we get to the playoffs anything can happen. Apparently we can't be negative about anything on our team here, even if this person(Tice) is a moron and clealry needs to go if our team has any shot of doing anything in the near future.

GreenBaySlackers
12-13-2004, 06:27 PM
You kow what, all of our problems would be solved if Red sold the team...













To US! then we would have a winning team, The First Democracy in the NFL!

bleedpurple
12-13-2004, 06:45 PM
Purplehorn, that was as ignorant a comment as it made you look like a moron and a person who doesn't quite see reality very well....

Or maybe you choose to live in non-reality world because it's easier for you...

Fact of the matter is if we lost one game then who cares...Or if we lost to a better team then OK...

But we keep loosing to inferior teams and have yet to put a whole game together...

From the playcalling to the inconsistent play.

We as fans have the right to say what's wrong with this team...After all it is a Viking thread that allows us to talk about VIKING issues...
And right now it's the bad coaching.

I don't think anybody wants to see Mike Tice fail...he's a likeable guy...and if we had inferior talent like SF then that would be one thing....So I don't think Erickson should be fired...he didn't have a chance to succeed there....but Look at the Colts they win in spite of their D and in the AFC...Why can't we do this....

We havent had good D sinced Dungy left...with the exception of 98..

Fact remains....We loose consistently because of the same ole' things....

After 3 years it's inexcusable....

bleedpurple
12-13-2004, 06:45 PM
we want results....and Tice hasn't produced results

muchluv4smoot
12-13-2004, 06:51 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:

we want results....and Tice hasn't produced results



And what we keep hearing from Tice suporters is, "give him more time and he will eventually be a good coach". Well, first of all, tice said he needed 3 years. It has been 3 years and we seem to be going backwords. He said give him 3 years, and we have. He has failed in those 3 years, so he needs to go. Let him take 5-10 years to learn how to coach somewhere else. Moss and daunte are in the primes of their careers, and tice is wasteing those years and will continue to do so as long as he stays our coach.

triedandtruevikesfan
12-13-2004, 07:06 PM
So... what you're saying is....

A true fan means that you give up lose faith and bitch about things that we have no control over.

That makes a lot of sense.

vikings_fan66
12-13-2004, 07:09 PM
"muchluv4moss" wrote:

"bleedpurple" wrote:

we want results....and Tice hasn't produced results



And what we keep hearing from Tice suporters is, "give him more time and he will eventually be a good coach". Well, first of all, tice said he needed 3 years. It has been 3 years and we seem to be going backwords. He said give him 3 years, and we have. He has failed in those 3 years, so he needs to go. Let him take 5-10 years to learn how to coach somewhere else. Moss and daunte are in the primes of their careers, and tice is wasteing those years and will continue to do so as long as he stays our coach.

I dont think we are going backwards.....We are improving he took over a losing team and had one losing season and then turned us into a playoff contender the last 2 years.

Webby
12-13-2004, 07:13 PM
"muchluv4moss" wrote:

"bleedpurple" wrote:

we want results....and Tice hasn't produced results



And what we keep hearing from Tice suporters is, "give him more time and he will eventually be a good coach". Well, first of all, tice said he needed 3 years. It has been 3 years and we seem to be going backwords. He said give him 3 years, and we have. He has failed in those 3 years, so he needs to go. Let him take 5-10 years to learn how to coach somewhere else. Moss and daunte are in the primes of their careers, and tice is wasteing those years and will continue to do so as long as he stays our coach.

3 years of going backwards? Better recheck the stats, pal. Thanks for making my case once again. A bunch of rhetoric with no backing. Bitch, vent, but fer chrissakes at least see things clearly. Fans can complain, thats what we're here for, cheer, jeer and comraderie. But asking people to pull their heads out of the tarpit certainly isn't unfair. The team has improved each year, hell our record will probably be better once again. Sorry we lost you your superbowl ring.

eastcoastvikes
12-13-2004, 08:57 PM
Tice has failed? Geez failure is a BIG word and I am not sure losing the division on a miracle in your second year would be failure. This year lets be honest when Tice had his full team around him he was 5-1, once Moss went down the losing started, he turned that around got the team from 5-4 to 7-4 and then lost the best pass defender on the team, and gee who would have thought the pass d has been lit up and theyve lost two in a row! My humble opinion, Tice has done fine I like that he is so fired up as a coach even if he isnt the best at challenging he represents the Viking organization extremely well and given a healthy team I would imagine he would have this team winning the North and in NFC Title consideration. That is what I think a lot of people are missing when I say that there is a chance if Minnesota just gets to the playoffs, if they do then they get Winfield and Birk back, if you don't think that will help this team then tell me how.

fanfrom69
12-13-2004, 09:20 PM
"muchluv4moss" wrote:

Some will say we the negative fans are wrong, and some will say being positive when things are clearly going down the drain is wrong. Why is being positive about us falling flat on our face for 2 straight years, being a better fan than us realistic fans that are tired of being average and underacheiving? You guys seem to think you are great fans for always saying positive things and saying we can still win the super bowl, GIVE ME A BREAK! You guys are no better fans than anyone else. Open your eyes and see the same damn thing we see every year, THE TEAM CHOKING AND FALLING FLAT ON IT'S FACE YET AGAIN!

Not that we all realize we are falling on our face, why is it wrong to talk about the reason we are doing this? I believe tice is definitely the reason for our collapses 2 straight years, so I will tell everyone that I can that he sucks. Did I not say this to start the year, before we even started the season? Sure I did. Was I not saying this, last year? Sure I was. Just because it comes after a loss, every positive fan seems to think it is an overreaction to a loss.

I am so sick of always being attacked for being realistic and be sick and tired of underacheiving. I am sorry, but when I see a team this good, playing so badly, I just can't sit here and say nothing, or that we still control our destiny, or that anything can happen while in the playoffs. There is a big problem here in minnesota and his name is mike tice. If he stays, we have no shot of playing even to our capability, NONE. He can take linehan with him too!

If we are not allowed to express our feelings, negative or not, about our team and coaches, then let me know, because I will gladly leave and let you guys live in your happy fantasy world here.To Cajun, Vikes can Do and others:
It's good to see all the 30+ year fans expressing there thoughts here. I been with ém 35- never even thought of pulling for another team. When Williams returned that fumble back against the Jags- my two boys 12 & 6, thought I was a maniac- i was going wild- I AM A DIE - HARD FAN.

But- This group ain't got it- they ARE NOT Champions- they don't have the Leadership. I'd rather be 1-15 with a plan to rebuild than keep trying to "tweak" here and there with the same results.

ItalianStallion
12-14-2004, 11:39 AM
Sorry EastCoas but that argument doesn't work. A good coach is supposed to overcome key injuries. By either having better depth or inspiring/teaching his players better. There will be injuries EVERY year, so by saying "he will do well with a healthy team" is incredibly unrealistic.

TNT, nobody is losing faith here. WE are all still viking fans hoping for our team to win the rest of the games this year. I find it hard to believe that some people cannot look at our present situation and even criticize it. Granted, its not like that is actually going to achieve anything but it at least lets us vent in a constructive manner.

Tice has three games left to show us what kind of coach he is is, plain and simple. If we make that playoffs, keep him. If we don't then he has to go.

whackthepack
12-14-2004, 11:53 AM
What is negative about looking at a team that started 5-1 and has know dropped to 7-6. That is 2-5 in their last 7 games!

Is it being negative or realistic?

And they can still control their destiny, but this team has shown no indication that it can win 2 out the last 3 let alone win out.

So if fans are pissed our disapointed then they may be perfectly justified in being that way with the underachiving that this team does!

bleedpurple
12-14-2004, 03:33 PM
whackthepack that was perfectly well put! I agree....

I even like Tice even though he IS lowsy at challenging plays...However......

IF he stays (I'm not against him staying) some changes have to be made....

I vote for a new O-coordinator....Linehan has to go!!!!!! and So does Cotrell! I like the guy but they have to go...

Linehan's playcalling is horendus and Cotrell's schemes have proved that there is a lot to be disired...I think we have the talent we just need some people to put it together!!! Bottom Line

bleedpurple
12-14-2004, 03:34 PM
Matter fact I'd rather see Linehan leave then Cotrell....at least we could give cotrell another shot at it but LINEHAN HAS TO GO!!! He is awful...

No rythm to his scheming at all

Viking_Spirit
12-14-2004, 04:58 PM
I still think Tice is a bad coach and should be fired. And, with how he's been coaching, we may not make the playoffs (pretty sad considering it's gonna be very easy to in the NFC).

I"m not losing faith, I'm just fed up with Tice because he has not corrected his mistakes from last year.

Anyways, just beat the Pack and I'll be a happy camper.

ItalianStallion
12-14-2004, 05:09 PM
Cotrell cannot leave. Even though our defense has been bad, it is mostly the players missing their assignments rather than poor playcalling. we can't really expect to field a good defense if we keep changing coordonators and schemes every year.

Linehan ain't all bad. What miffs me most about him is his inconsistency with the playcalling. When something works (usually the run), he goes away from it. Sometimes when something doesn't work (the run) he doesn't go away from it. He needs to learn to run a balanced offense with running/passing and occasionally throwing the deep ball EVERY GAME.

Tice has made good decision personel-wise, for he most part. I have liked our drafting in hte past three years. It is not all his fault, but he cannot allow this team to collapse again after what happened last year. His job is definitely on the line.

I think I read somewhere that Red has to decide on bringing him back or not before the last game of the season. Should put these next two game into an interesting perspective.

bleedpurple
12-14-2004, 05:25 PM
Thing is that your right about linehan....he doesn't mix up the Pass and the Run very well....

Some of his calls are questionable but doesn't seem to keep the defense guessing, isn't very creative when it comes to formations and what not...and is it me or have they not thrown a screen in a while? why not...bennett would have been perfect against the blitz on a screen the last two weeks...

VKG4LFE
12-14-2004, 08:55 PM
I'm still dying inside today, 2 days after the damn game, BUT I still have faith that the boys will get it done this week and they will make my Christmas a very very happy one!! Let's beat the cowardly lions!

purplehorn
12-15-2004, 11:41 AM
"bleedpurple" wrote:

Purplehorn, I am an ignorant moron and a person who doesn't quite see reality very well....
....

I will try to be a pessimistic little whiner like you or NOT. Three games
left that we will and can win I think I will remain positive and enjoy
the rest of the season while you complain and rant :roll:

SKOL
12-15-2004, 01:15 PM
I think we're having two problems.

1). We seem to be prone to mistakes when it really counts (Daunte's fumble against Philly, etc.).

2). Adjustments. It's been a "tale of two half's" with totally opposite results for our offense and defense. Every game our defense seems to perform poorly in the first half, but makes adjustments at halftime, (granted I wish the adjustments would be made sooner than halftime). Our offense performs well in the first half, but when other teams make adjustments to our offense we seem to stay status quo and not re-adjust. We're just not quick enough to make adjustments.

This points to coaching. We need to do better game planning on the defensive side, and be better at making adjustments to counter the oppositions adjustments.

I don't think I'm a bad fan by recognizing what's wrong with our team. It's nice to be able to vent my frustrations to other real fans. Just my two cents.

purplehorn
01-05-2005, 04:20 PM
Well we are in the playoffs, possibly Super Bowl
bound and still alot of negativity. I will
never understand.

SKOL VIKES

North40
01-05-2005, 05:54 PM
IF Red could get away with having an 0-16 season with rock bottom paid players and coaches because the fans were content enough to cheer for anything in purple and keep filling the stands and buying merchandise....

Would anything change?

Why would he care?

Hey support the team 100% no matter what.....
(and nothing will change)

Discontent brings change
(for the good or the bad but it brings change)

VKG4LFE
01-05-2005, 06:58 PM
Be a fan for your team win LOSE or draw! That's all I got!

bleedpurple
01-05-2005, 08:00 PM
"purplehorn" wrote:

"bleedpurple" wrote:

Purplehorn, You are an ignorant moron and a person who doesn't quite see reality very well....
....

I will try to be a pessimistic little whiner like you or NOT. Three games
left that we could have won...but didn't but I think I will remain positive and enjoy the rest of the season even though I know i'm going to cry my eyes out because we'll probably loose to GB a third time then I will eat crow and tell you what a smart person you are and eat my words...Your right, I know you just see reality better and I'm blinded by my purplepride...you-da-man :roll:

That's cool how you want to change up my words....but for the record there is a difference between seeing things for what they are and being so blinded by being a Vikes fan that you's wager your whole pay check on the vikes against the PATS or somebody...I'll bet you won't wager your pay check on us going to the NFC championship game!!!!

I guarantee if your team was the Eagles or even the Pack anybody but the VIkes and you were to talk about the Vikes then you'd say....man they are pretty bad and incapable of winning the big game....see it for what it is...

That doesn't mean im going to cheer for them but i just recognize that we are not a very good football team right now...We are underachieving and I truly believe with some tweaking we could be the best team in the league...

so stick that in your pipes and smoke it!!!

berserkers
01-05-2005, 08:48 PM
I don't think there is anything wrong with Vikings fans calling it how they see it. If the team is sucking, then say they are sucking......

The longer you've been a fan, and the more painful and weak seasons you've stood by this team for, the more right you have to call a spade a spade. that's how I see it anyway.

Nobody likes a whiner, and especially when it's from a bandwagon nancy who's only been watching the team for 2 years, or since Moss has come along or something...

But I've been a fan for the past 23 years, and anyone who knows me knows that there isn't a bandwagon bone in my body. I suspect it's the same for many old timers around here. My brother has been a fan for the past 35 years, and I don't know if there is a more pessimistic guy out there, but you know what, come Sunday afternoon, he's cheering on the boys.

No, people can bitch and complain about the folks that like to keep it real, and state the obvious, but in the end, I find those people just as annoying as the ones that incessantly bitch and complain. In the end, wearing the purple goggles and living out in la-la land about the potential of this team is just as bad as not giving them any credit.

In the end, there needs to be a happy medium. Love the team for what they are and stick by them no matter what, but not so much that you are completely blinded to their shortcomings.... and be critical of the team when they deserve it, but not so much that you appear to complain about every minor detail...

everything in moderation.

VKG4LFE
01-05-2005, 08:49 PM
I'm not saying people can't bitch and complain, but don't say I'm giving up hope or I'm not going to watch those guys anymore, etc!

berserkers
01-05-2005, 08:56 PM
well I agree, those comments are kind of bandwagon. i don't think I have ever said that...

although, I do know some guys that do say stuff like that after a hard loss, and they are right back at it the following Sunday too...

I guess it depends on the person. Some people, they just get so emotional and mad about a loss, that stuff comes out of their mouth that they don't mean. In alot of cases, in a weird way, that's how you know they are so passionate about the team.

VKG4LFE
01-05-2005, 08:59 PM
Hey, I get as pissed off as the next guy when we lose and it's hard to even think about football for a day or two (especially living in Wisconsin) but I don't think I can bring myself to those kinds of statements! I was at the Vikes-Seattle game and after Daunte got sacked to end the game this guy that was leaving was like "that's why the vikes will never win the superbowl with daunte... blah blah blah" then he went on to say some crap about how Frerotte would have won that game and at this time I am done listening to him cuz I was getting pissed at this moron!!

berserkers
01-05-2005, 09:05 PM
well that's just obsurd....
some people should be muzzled because they have no idea what they are saying.... I mean constructive criticism is one thing but...

and I don't see how anyone can say anything about Daunte... If Manning didn't have the kind of season he had, Daunte would be the talk of the town... Daunte IS this offense, in many ways moreso than Moss.

VKG4LFE
01-05-2005, 09:07 PM
Yeah, breaking the all time record for most yards in a season does deserve a benching to Gus (I hurt my necking running into a wall after I scored a TD) Frerotte