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MindFreak
01-15-2008, 08:15 AM
I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?

ultravikingfan
01-15-2008, 08:37 AM
How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.

MindFreak
01-15-2008, 08:41 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


Fair enough, but Childress must see something in him that we don't since he's kept him these last two years, under his so called "Culture of accountability" era. I wouldn't have a problem moving in a different direction, but who on this list would you want over him?
William Bartee UFA Kansas City Chiefs
Jay Bellamy UFA New Orleans Saints
Omar Stoutmire UFA Washington Redskins
Derrick Strait UFA Carolina Panthers
Gibril Wilson UFA New York Giants

Sorry, but that looks like a sad list of FA safties

Mikecarter81
01-15-2008, 08:55 AM
I think we remove him and promote from within.
We have a couple guys who age might dictate a change to safety at some point.

Mike

Marrdro
01-15-2008, 09:00 AM
I never want to have to rely on a guy (no matter how talented) if he has issues that seem to cause he to be unreliable.

Like it or not the NFL and associated teams have rules that players must conform to.
Players that refuse to conform to those rules will at times
have to be disciplined which in some cases will make him not available to the team.

Again, talent aside, if he isn't gonna be a team guy than I don't want him on the team.

ultravikingfan
01-15-2008, 09:07 AM
"MindFreak" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


Fair enough, but Childress must see something in him that we don't since he's kept him these last two years, under his so called "Culture of accountability" era. I wouldn't have a problem moving in a different direction, but who on this list would you want over him?
William Bartee UFA Kansas City Chiefs
Jay Bellamy UFA New Orleans Saints
Omar Stoutmire UFA Washington Redskins
Derrick Strait UFA Carolina Panthers
Gibril Wilson UFA New York Giants

Sorry, but that looks like a sad list of FA safties


It was not recently he got caught with dope.
My guess is that he is a goner now.
We do not need idiots on this team.

ThorSPL
01-15-2008, 11:03 AM
He can go... I don't think Chilly will keep him around and his play wasn't exactly spectacular enough to warrant dealing with the off-the-field issues.

Zeus
01-15-2008, 11:33 AM
"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=

Braddock
01-15-2008, 11:42 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed. Who cares, really? He hasn't done anything I haven't done before, so who am I to judge?

NodakPaul
01-15-2008, 11:45 AM
"Braddock" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed. Who cares, really? He hasn't done anything I haven't done before, so who am I to judge?


You got a BJ in a stairwell? ;)

mountainviking
01-15-2008, 12:06 PM
I'm not really all for cutting him loose...pot calling the kettle black so to speak.
But, if he's going to miss games due to suspension, we're going to need to replace him at least temporarily.
Anyone know when his hearing is?
I kind of wish we still had Greg Blue...not real sold on the knees of Tank or Doss.
And, there is that whole "change of culture" thing, so Chilly might decide to make an example...

These guys are claiming that Ken Hamlin is UFA...so I checked the stats, seems like a great pickup!
Young (he'll be 27 this week), but with a good share of starting experience, good size at 6'2" and 206 lbs.
Last year he had 62 tkls, 15 passes defensed, and 5 INTs!
The three years he wasn't injured in Seattle, he had 96 tkls twice and 80 another year...at least we know he can tackle
;)

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_7891888

kevoncox
01-15-2008, 01:28 PM
I never quite understood the offfeild issues debate...
It's so inconclusive...

Dolphins own the most turd points( for arrests) on profootballtalk.com, but the Jags are right behind them. Two completely different teams. The difference is stability. The head coaches of the Jags has been their for about 7 years( me thinks). We need stability in players. It takes time for players to learn to trust each other and get to know what the other person on their team is going to do(especially at the safety position). We can't keep switching people in and out, we need time to gel together.... Sometimes a safety misses a play because he has no faith in the corner to make the play.

Add me to the keep TWill list. He became the scape goat for us loosing to denver. Well guess what, the whole team stunk it up that game.

jmcdon00
01-15-2008, 02:08 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


I don't think any of the cons exclude him from being a leader except taking games off, but that is debatable, when we get no pressure on the opposing qb it is nearly impossible to stop the pass. How can you say he is a "cancer", do you think his behavior will cause other players to start getting bj's in stairways?

Overlord
01-15-2008, 02:10 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

jmcdon00
01-15-2008, 02:28 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.

MindFreak
01-15-2008, 02:39 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.

He broke a law, and debating wether pot should or shouldn't be legal is an entirely different debate, but is AP gets benched for a series for being fricken late for a damn bus, then Smith should get a game atleast under the alleged "Culture of accountability"

Overlord
01-15-2008, 02:39 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.


I'm pretty sure he's going to plead guilty or be found guilty because, along with any physical evidence, he told the police that he had been smoking weed.
Even if he came in and said he was not, the judge would almost certainly believe the police officer's account of the event.
Now, I suppose there might be a possibility that he pleads to a lesser charge that does not necessarily involve possession, and if he keeps it out of any statement of facts maybe he is okay.
Not likely though.

If he is found guilty or pleads guilty to a violation of a substance law, he will be suspended under the NFL's substance abuse policy, even if it is just a petty misdemeanor and not a crime.
I believe the minimum suspension is 1 game, and the maximum is 4 games.
My memory is that the commissioner likes to give out the maximum suspension, but I'm not confident on that point.

All suspensions under the substance abuse policy occur in the regular season and playoffs.
That means that he would be allowed to practice with the team and play throughout the preseason When the regular season started, he would be banned from the team's practice facilities and everything for the length of the suspension.

ultravikingfan
01-15-2008, 02:45 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


I don't think any of the cons exclude him from being a leader except taking games off, but that is debatable, when we get no pressure on the opposing qb it is nearly impossible to stop the pass. How can you say he is a "cancer", do you think his behavior will cause other players to start getting bj's in stairways?


How can you make the connection between no pressure and taking plays off?
You are paid to play, not take plays off.
That is a cancer.


And his off the field behavior is a cancer if it is not dealt with by the team.
Then others could possibly feel inclined to do stupid things off the field because they know not much will happen.

jmcdon00
01-15-2008, 02:59 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


I don't think any of the cons exclude him from being a leader except taking games off, but that is debatable, when we get no pressure on the opposing qb it is nearly impossible to stop the pass. How can you say he is a "cancer", do you think his behavior will cause other players to start getting bj's in stairways?


How can you make the connection between no pressure and taking plays off?
You are paid to play, not take plays off.
That is a cancer.


And his off the field behavior is a cancer if it is not dealt with by the team.
Then others could possibly feel inclined to do stupid things off the field because they know not much will happen.

I don't watch the safeties too closely during the games, but I have never seen him taking a nap on the field. Why do you think he takes plays off? It seems unlikely that anyone that it taking plays off would remain on any NFL team for very long.

While I agree with you that discipline is important, these are grown men. They make their own decisions. I highly doubt any of the players want to be in Smith's position regardless if he is removed from the team or not.

nikoli
01-15-2008, 04:53 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


I don't think any of the cons exclude him from being a leader except taking games off, but that is debatable, when we get no pressure on the opposing qb it is nearly impossible to stop the pass. How can you say he is a "cancer", do you think his behavior will cause other players to start getting bj's in stairways?


Great point! Yeah a lot people just hate on him for stupid reasons. I know a lot folks didn't like that he was seen laughing on the sideline when we got blanked by the Packers. But he followed it up with some solid play... esp against the Giants!

I just don't get how people can watch our secondary play exceptionally well when there's adequate/consistent pressure... and then completely forget about all that good stuff the next time our front 7 doesn't do jack squat. It just floors me1

Smith is a scapegoat here. Plain and simple. He's been in the media for some really petty crap and the haters found their new favorite guy to hate on.

You wanna solve the secondary problem? Sign Suggs or trade for Jason Taylor.

nikoli
01-15-2008, 04:59 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


I don't think any of the cons exclude him from being a leader except taking games off, but that is debatable, when we get no pressure on the opposing qb it is nearly impossible to stop the pass. How can you say he is a "cancer", do you think his behavior will cause other players to start getting bj's in stairways?


How can you make the connection between no pressure and taking plays off?
You are paid to play, not take plays off.
That is a cancer.


And his off the field behavior is a cancer if it is not dealt with by the team.
Then others could possibly feel inclined to do stupid things off the field because they know not much will happen.

I don't watch the safeties too closely during the games, but I have never seen him taking a nap on the field. Why do you think he takes plays off? It seems unlikely that anyone that it taking plays off would remain on any NFL team for very long.



Yeah I'm not buying into this whole taking plays off thing either. Just because he looks lost at times doesn't mean he's taking plays off.

Fact is that he's the best option we have. We'd be much better off dealing with our problem children than just kicking them to the curb. This is not to say we should let him off completely free and clear... but cutting him for a mistake or two isn't the answer.

jessejames09
01-15-2008, 05:07 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


I don't think any of the cons exclude him from being a leader except taking games off, but that is debatable, when we get no pressure on the opposing qb it is nearly impossible to stop the pass. How can you say he is a "cancer", do you think his behavior will cause other players to start getting bj's in stairways?


Great point! Yeah a lot people just hate on him for stupid reasons. I know a lot folks didn't like that he was seen laughing on the sideline when we got blanked by the Packers. But he followed it up with some solid play... esp against the Giants!

I just don't get how people can watch our secondary play exceptionally well when there's adequate/consistent pressure... and then completely forget about all that good stuff the next time our front 7 doesn't do jack squat. It just floor me.

Smith is a scapegoat here. Plain and simple. He's been in the media for some really petty crap and the haters found their new favorite guy to hate on.

You wanna solve the secondary problem? Sign Suggs or trade for Jason Taylor.


Most of us watch on TV, watching TV it is hard to see how safeties play in coverage, unless a replay is shown. This is why i think most pp.oers blame the CB's because thats all they see, they see someone run by McCauley. Was he supposed to have help over the top, no one really knows.

Think about what you do see our safeties do, hit, chase down WR, hit, int, hit some more. All that hitting for a safety doesn't mean they are necessarily playing well. And I think both of them prey on the deep ball too much, sacrificing some long gains (sharper used to be able to get away with this but his age is starting to show).

Dwights an old pothead, doesn't seem like Chillies type of guy.

jessejames09
01-15-2008, 05:09 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


I don't think any of the cons exclude him from being a leader except taking games off, but that is debatable, when we get no pressure on the opposing qb it is nearly impossible to stop the pass. How can you say he is a "cancer", do you think his behavior will cause other players to start getting bj's in stairways?


How can you make the connection between no pressure and taking plays off?
You are paid to play, not take plays off.
That is a cancer.


And his off the field behavior is a cancer if it is not dealt with by the team.
Then others could possibly feel inclined to do stupid things off the field because they know not much will happen.

I don't watch the safeties too closely during the games, but I have never seen him taking a nap on the field. Why do you think he takes plays off? It seems unlikely that anyone that it taking plays off would remain on any NFL team for very long.



Yeah I'm not buying into this whole taking plays off thing either. Just because he looks lost at times doesn't mean he's taking plays off.

Fact is that he's the best option we have. We'd be much better off dealing with our problem children than just kicking them to the curb. This is not to say we should let him off completely free and clear... but cutting him for a mistake or two isn't the answer.


Tank is a better option, he played very well this season, and made his presence felt. I'm sure we would have benched Dwight, after the doob cruise fiasco, had Tank been healthy.

jmcdon00
01-15-2008, 05:21 PM
"MindFreak" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.

He broke a law, and debating wether pot should or shouldn't be legal is an entirely different debate, but is AP gets benched for a series for being fricken late for a damn bus, then Smith should get a game atleast under the alleged "Culture of accountability"

So should everyone that gets a speeding ticket get suspended or cut?

AP broke a team rule that wasted the entire teams time, Dwight's mistakes were made during his personal time and did not directly effect the team.

PS. Who is debating wether pot should be legal? I'm not, although I have in other more appropriate forums.

BloodyHorns82
01-15-2008, 05:26 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:




I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.

He broke a law, and debating wether pot should or shouldn't be legal is an entirely different debate, but is AP gets benched for a series for being fricken late for a damn bus, then Smith should get a game atleast under the alleged "Culture of accountability"

So should everyone that gets a speeding ticket get suspended or cut?

AP broke a team rule that wasted the entire teams time, Dwight's mistakes were made during his personal time and did not directly effect the team.

PS. Who is debating wether pot should be legal? I'm not, although I have in other more appropriate forums.


Speeding isn't defined in the teams or NFLs conduct policy; pot is.
So no, everyone that gets a speeding ticket shouldn't get suspended or cut.
Team members who get busted smoking pot should be penalized.
You have to hold people/players responsible.
If your going to make a point to put it in your conduct policy, you must enforce it.

MetalMike-LoudVike
01-15-2008, 05:27 PM
I guess the killer part is waiting to see what direction management goes.
Trade him off for Fitzgerald, Cut him. I guess we will have to play tiddley winks or something to kill time before this deal unfolds.

BloodyHorns82
01-15-2008, 05:28 PM
"MetalMike-LoudVike" wrote:


I guess the killer part is waiting to see what direction management goes.
Trade him off for Fitzgerald, Cut him. I guess we will have to play tiddley winks or something to kill time before this deal unfolds.


I like that idea!

Trade Smith + 7th round 2010 pick for Fitz!
Chilly would look like a genius!

jmcdon00
01-15-2008, 05:30 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.


I'm pretty sure he's going to plead guilty or be found guilty because, along with any physical evidence, he told the police that he had been smoking weed.
Even if he came in and said he was not, the judge would almost certainly believe the police officer's account of the event.
Now, I suppose there might be a possibility that he pleads to a lesser charge that does not necessarily involve possession, and if he keeps it out of any statement of facts maybe he is okay.
Not likely though.

If he is found guilty or pleads guilty to a violation of a substance law, he will be suspended under the NFL's substance abuse policy, even if it is just a petty misdemeanor and not a crime.
I believe the minimum suspension is 1 game, and the maximum is 4 games.
My memory is that the commissioner likes to give out the maximum suspension, but I'm not confident on that point.

All suspensions under the substance abuse policy occur in the regular season and playoffs.
That means that he would be allowed to practice with the team and play throughout the preseason When the regular season started, he would be banned from the team's practice facilities and everything for the length of the suspension.

So much for my "maybe he'll be suspended for the preseason" theory. Good post thanks. :)

aaeyers
01-15-2008, 05:40 PM
"MetalMike-LoudVike" wrote:


I guess the killer part is waiting to see what direction management goes.
Trade him off for Fitzgerald, Cut him. I guess we will have to play tiddley winks or something to kill time before this deal unfolds.


Your avatar exactly describes my reaction every time someone even mentions the words 'trade' and 'Fitzgerald' in the same sentence.

jmcdon00
01-15-2008, 05:55 PM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:






I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.

He broke a law, and debating wether pot should or shouldn't be legal is an entirely different debate, but is AP gets benched for a series for being fricken late for a damn bus, then Smith should get a game atleast under the alleged "Culture of accountability"

So should everyone that gets a speeding ticket get suspended or cut?

AP broke a team rule that wasted the entire teams time, Dwight's mistakes were made during his personal time and did not directly effect the team.

PS. Who is debating wether pot should be legal? I'm not, although I have in other more appropriate forums.


Speeding isn't defined in the teams or NFLs conduct policy; pot is.
So no, everyone that gets a speeding ticket shouldn't get suspended or cut.
Team members who get busted smoking pot should be penalized.
You have to hold people/players responsible.
If your going to make a point to put it in your conduct policy, you must enforce it.

True, and he should have to suffer what ever the conduct policy says is the appropriate penalty, but I don't believe that penalty is to be booted from the team.


B. Discipline for Violations of the Law.
A player will normally be subject to discipline up to and including suspension without
pay for four regular and/or post-season games for a first violation of the law related to
substances of abuse other than alcohol and for six regular and/or post-season games for a
second violation of the law related to substances of abuse other than alcohol. A player’s
treatment history may be considered by the Commissioner in determining the appropriate
degree of discipline. The suspension period may be extended if medically necessary, and,
if extended, may involve mandatory treatment if required by the Medical Director.

If the maximum is 4 games for a first time offense, I would say 2grams of marijuana, a non-criminal offense, would not dictate the maximum penalty.(that would be reserved for the guy that gets a felony charge).

BloodyHorns82
01-15-2008, 06:00 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:








I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.

He broke a law, and debating wether pot should or shouldn't be legal is an entirely different debate, but is AP gets benched for a series for being fricken late for a damn bus, then Smith should get a game atleast under the alleged "Culture of accountability"

So should everyone that gets a speeding ticket get suspended or cut?

AP broke a team rule that wasted the entire teams time, Dwight's mistakes were made during his personal time and did not directly effect the team.

PS. Who is debating wether pot should be legal? I'm not, although I have in other more appropriate forums.


Speeding isn't defined in the teams or NFLs conduct policy; pot is.
So no, everyone that gets a speeding ticket shouldn't get suspended or cut.
Team members who get busted smoking pot should be penalized.
You have to hold people/players responsible.
If your going to make a point to put it in your conduct policy, you must enforce it.

True, and he should have to suffer what ever the conduct policy says is the appropriate penalty, but I don't believe that penalty is to be booted from the team.


B. Discipline for Violations of the Law.
A player will normally be subject to discipline up to and including suspension without
pay for four regular and/or post-season games for a first violation of the law related to
substances of abuse other than alcohol and for six regular and/or post-season games for a
second violation of the law related to substances of abuse other than alcohol. A player’s
treatment history may be considered by the Commissioner in determining the appropriate
degree of discipline. The suspension period may be extended if medically necessary, and,
if extended, may involve mandatory treatment if required by the Medical Director.

If the maximum is 4 games for a first time offense, I would say 2grams of marijuana, a non-criminal offense, would not dictate the maximum penalty.(that would be reserved for the guy that gets a felony charge).


The problem though is this is one of several run-ins with the law.
It is more than just the substance abuse policy.
Personal conduct as well.

I'm not necessarily saying he needs to be cut, but if he does I'll feel no sympathy towards him.
How many warnings do you give a guy?
How many "I'm sorry it won't happen again"s do you listen to before you take some action?

VikingsTw
01-15-2008, 06:02 PM
Thanks to Directv and Tivo i've been lucky enough to see all viking games in past few years. I've seen every game Dwight Smith has played and i have never seen him take a play off period. Dwight Smith is one the biggest leaders in our locker room and he's part of Childress's "Veteran Crue" he's also resposible for rallying the team after our ass kicking from the packers. From that point we won five games in row and gave ourself a chance to make the playoffs.

Since Dwight Smith has been here our safety play has been much better, especailly the tackling aspect. Some of you may not remeber the suffering days of Corey "Hits like a bag of feathers" Chavous. I'm much more pleased with Dwight Smiths agressiveness, especailly around the line of scrimage, he's another reason our run D is so good. He's much better in the secondary also, he's a good football player who makes plays. He is liable to give up a big play but its not normal. He played much better football after he sat out and healed the hammy.

He could be in some trouble with the league, good thing is he manned up and admitted to smoking some grass that naturally grows from mother earth. I'de be more worried about little kids seeing him in the stairway with a naked women. Bottom line is he's had some issues but this is no time to break away from him, especailly with whats out there. I think Mike Doss can be a good safety but he's injury prone along with Tank.

One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.

Zeus
01-15-2008, 06:05 PM
"MindFreak" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.



Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.


I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.

He broke a law, and debating wether pot should or shouldn't be legal is an entirely different debate, but is AP gets benched for a series for being fricken late for a damn bus, then Smith should get a game atleast under the alleged "Culture of accountability"


Wow - you're so Anti-Childress that you've condemned him for something that hasn't even happened yet.
That is absolutely ridiculous.

How quickly you've forgotten that Childress sat Dwight Smith for an entire game in the 2006 season - the season opener, no less - for the incident in the stairwell.

And, yes, Purple Jesus was benched for the first series against Denver - and the Vikings marched right down the field, didn't they.
Would have scored, too, if Chester had kept the ball in his hand.

=Z=

Zeus
01-15-2008, 06:11 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


Thanks to Directv and Tivo i've been lucky enough to see all viking games in past few years. I've seen every game Dwight Smith has played and i have never seen him take a play off period. Dwight Smith is one the biggest leaders in our locker room and he's part of Childress's "Veteran Crue" he's also resposible for rallying the team after our ass kicking from the packers. From that point we won five games in row and gave ourself a chance to make the playoffs.


Cool!
Now go back and watch his fabulous display of arm-tackling and whiffing in the Denver game.


=Z=

Overlord
01-15-2008, 06:11 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:



B. Discipline for Violations of the Law.
A player will normally be subject to discipline up to and including suspension without
pay for four regular and/or post-season games for a first violation of the law related to
substances of abuse other than alcohol and for six regular and/or post-season games for a
second violation of the law related to substances of abuse other than alcohol. A player’s
treatment history may be considered by the Commissioner in determining the appropriate
degree of discipline. The suspension period may be extended if medically necessary, and,
if extended, may involve mandatory treatment if required by the Medical Director.

If the maximum is 4 games for a first time offense, I would say 2grams of marijuana, a non-criminal offense, would not dictate the maximum penalty.(that would be reserved for the guy that gets a felony charge).


Yeah, I don't know if the maximum suspension is usually given or not.
I think Odell Thurman got four games for a first offense (missing a drug test - later extended for other behavior).
But then I think Fred Evans got two games for possession of marijuana and being a jerk to the cops.
So I don't know what the standard is.
I also don't know if his passed conduct would be taken into account.

But whether it's one game or four, to me it's still a cumulative thing.
Looming suspension + average play + $3 million = not here next year.

jmcdon00
01-15-2008, 06:14 PM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:










I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.

=Z=


Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.

I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.

He broke a law, and debating wether pot should or shouldn't be legal is an entirely different debate, but is AP gets benched for a series for being fricken late for a damn bus, then Smith should get a game atleast under the alleged "Culture of accountability"

So should everyone that gets a speeding ticket get suspended or cut?

AP broke a team rule that wasted the entire teams time, Dwight's mistakes were made during his personal time and did not directly effect the team.

PS. Who is debating wether pot should be legal? I'm not, although I have in other more appropriate forums.


Speeding isn't defined in the teams or NFLs conduct policy; pot is.
So no, everyone that gets a speeding ticket shouldn't get suspended or cut.
Team members who get busted smoking pot should be penalized.
You have to hold people/players responsible.
If your going to make a point to put it in your conduct policy, you must enforce it.

True, and he should have to suffer what ever the conduct policy says is the appropriate penalty, but I don't believe that penalty is to be booted from the team.


B. Discipline for Violations of the Law.
A player will normally be subject to discipline up to and including suspension without
pay for four regular and/or post-season games for a first violation of the law related to
substances of abuse other than alcohol and for six regular and/or post-season games for a
second violation of the law related to substances of abuse other than alcohol. A player’s
treatment history may be considered by the Commissioner in determining the appropriate
degree of discipline. The suspension period may be extended if medically necessary, and,
if extended, may involve mandatory treatment if required by the Medical Director.

If the maximum is 4 games for a first time offense, I would say 2grams of marijuana, a non-criminal offense, would not dictate the maximum penalty.(that would be reserved for the guy that gets a felony charge).


The problem though is this is one of several run-ins with the law.
It is more than just the substance abuse policy.
Personal conduct as well.

I'm not necessarily saying he needs to be cut, but if he does I'll feel no sympathy towards him.
How many warnings do you give a guy?
How many "I'm sorry it won't happen again"s do you listen to before you take some action?

I guess maybe it is the straw that broke the camel's back, but it is a pretty small straw, and I think he should stay with the team.
He is a baller. Do you remember when he returned 2 interceptions for TD's in the SUPERBOWL!!!!
PS. I believe speeding would be a violation of the conduct policy if they were driving 30mph over the limit, as that is considered criminal speeding. (aka-Lebron James).

jkjuggalo
01-15-2008, 06:15 PM
Dump the jackass!


There are some really good safeties in this year's draft:
Phillips
Steltz
Silva
Harris
Etc.

Plus we have two quality veterans to step in right now in Doss and Tank.
I really like the way both these guys play, and I think Frazier would be just fine plugging a healthy Doss in next season.
My hunch is that is why they brought him in there in the first place.
If I had my druthers, we would be lucky enough to get Phillips, who I think would thrive in our defense.

The other thing I've though about was trading Smith and maybe Leber plus a pick to the Bengals for Chad, but I think Leber is one of Childress' guys.

VikingsTw
01-15-2008, 06:28 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


Thanks to Directv and Tivo i've been lucky enough to see all viking games in past few years. I've seen every game Dwight Smith has played and i have never seen him take a play off period. Dwight Smith is one the biggest leaders in our locker room and he's part of Childress's "Veteran Crue" he's also resposible for rallying the team after our jiggly butt kicking from the packers. From that point we won five games in row and gave ourself a chance to make the playoffs.


Cool!
Now go back and watch his fabulous display of arm-tackling and whiffing in the Denver game.


=Z=


You would be alot less loud about the situation had we won that game, and to think all he had to do was catch the football. Similair situation happen last year when we let the Rams beat us last game of the season, nobody was tackling on the defense. I don't recall his game being that bad but if it was I don't expect it to continue. Dwight Smith has always been a good strong open field tackler.

Zeus
01-15-2008, 06:32 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


Thanks to Directv and Tivo i've been lucky enough to see all viking games in past few years. I've seen every game Dwight Smith has played and i have never seen him take a play off period. Dwight Smith is one the biggest leaders in our locker room and he's part of Childress's "Veteran Crue" he's also resposible for rallying the team after our jiggly butt kicking from the packers. From that point we won five games in row and gave ourself a chance to make the playoffs.


Cool!
Now go back and watch his fabulous display of arm-tackling and whiffing in the Denver game.



You would be alot less loud about the situation had we won that game, and to think all he had to do was catch the football. Similair situation happen last year when we let the Rams beat us last game of the season, nobody was tackling on the defense. I don't recall his game being that bad but if it was I don't expect it to continue. Dwight Smith has always been a good strong open field tackler.


No I wouldn't.
While Dwight makes some good (and occasionally great) plays, he also overruns plays, arm-tackles and gets out of position while trying to make the highlight reel.

I want him AND Sharper gone.

=Z=

VikingsTw
01-15-2008, 06:36 PM
"jkjuggalo" wrote:


Dump the j~~~~~~s!


There are some really good safeties in this year's draft:
Phillips
Steltz
Silva
Harris
Etc.

Plus we have two quality veterans to step in right now in Doss and Tank.
I really like the way both these guys play, and I think Frazier would be just fine plugging a healthy Doss in next season.
My hunch is that is why they brought him in there in the first place.
If I had my druthers, we would be lucky enough to get Phillips, who I think would thrive in our defense.

The other thing I've though about was trading Smith and maybe Leber plus a pick to the Bengals for Chad, but I think Leber is one of Childress' guys.



Trading good defensive players for a loud WR is not cool in my book. Especailly Ben Leber who is a very good football player. Once again some fans may not remember the days where our LB's where garbage but i'm not about ready to trade it away. Ben Leber is as important to this defense as any of our LB's.

VikingsTw
01-15-2008, 06:54 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


Thanks to Directv and Tivo i've been lucky enough to see all viking games in past few years. I've seen every game Dwight Smith has played and i have never seen him take a play off period. Dwight Smith is one the biggest leaders in our locker room and he's part of Childress's "Veteran Crue" he's also resposible for rallying the team after our jiggly butt kicking from the packers. From that point we won five games in row and gave ourself a chance to make the playoffs.


Cool!
Now go back and watch his fabulous display of arm-tackling and whiffing in the Denver game.



You would be alot less loud about the situation had we won that game, and to think all he had to do was catch the football. Similair situation happen last year when we let the Rams beat us last game of the season, nobody was tackling on the defense. I don't recall his game being that bad but if it was I don't expect it to continue. Dwight Smith has always been a good strong open field tackler.


No I wouldn't.
While Dwight makes some good (and occasionally great) plays, he also overruns plays, arm-tackles and gets out of position while trying to make the highlight reel.

I want him AND Sharper gone.

=Z=


I don't think so... While they are both aging and it will be time to bring in some young blood its not the time to throw those guys to the curb. We just don't give up enough points to fire our safties. I do believe that would be jumping the gun. Because of your claims about Dwight Smith it makes me feel you have a personal grudge against him wich is A OK, i used to feel the same way about Corey Chavous. But since becoming a Minnesota Vikings Dwight Smith's worst game came in a win against Chicago this year while he was injured. Everone wants a more consistant upgrade but only when the time is right. Dwight Smith will not hurt this team, but if we don't do something about the pass rush we are likely to see the same things over again.

jkjuggalo
01-15-2008, 07:11 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"jkjuggalo" wrote:


Dump the j~~~~~~s!


There are some really good safeties in this year's draft:
Phillips
Steltz
Silva
Harris
Etc.

Plus we have two quality veterans to step in right now in Doss and Tank.
I really like the way both these guys play, and I think Frazier would be just fine plugging a healthy Doss in next season.
My hunch is that is why they brought him in there in the first place.
If I had my druthers, we would be lucky enough to get Phillips, who I think would thrive in our defense.

The other thing I've though about was trading Smith and maybe Leber plus a pick to the Bengals for Chad, but I think Leber is one of Childress' guys.



Trading good defensive players for a loud WR is not cool in my book. Especailly Ben Leber who is a very good football player. Once again some fans may not remember the days where our LB's where garbage but i'm not about ready to trade it away. Ben Leber is as important to this defense as any of our LB's.


While I agree that Leber is a solid LBer, I think his position is the most replaceable this offseason.
There is
some decent options in both free-agency and the draft, which also is why the Bengals would never go for a trade like this IMO, but I can dream.
As far as trading a good defensive player for a "loud" receiver, not many GM's in this league would turn down a chance at one of the best receivers in the league if it meant giving up an average linebacker and an average safety with behavior issues.
In fact, that is what we did with Moss, and look how that trade turned out. :-\

VikingsTw
01-15-2008, 07:19 PM
"jkjuggalo" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"jkjuggalo" wrote:


Dump the j~~~~~~s!


There are some really good safeties in this year's draft:
Phillips
Steltz
Silva
Harris
Etc.

Plus we have two quality veterans to step in right now in Doss and Tank.
I really like the way both these guys play, and I think Frazier would be just fine plugging a healthy Doss in next season.
My hunch is that is why they brought him in there in the first place.
If I had my druthers, we would be lucky enough to get Phillips, who I think would thrive in our defense.

The other thing I've though about was trading Smith and maybe Leber plus a pick to the Bengals for Chad, but I think Leber is one of Childress' guys.



Trading good defensive players for a loud WR is not cool in my book. Especailly Ben Leber who is a very good football player. Once again some fans may not remember the days where our LB's where garbage but i'm not about ready to trade it away. Ben Leber is as important to this defense as any of our LB's.


While I agree that Leber is a solid LBer, I think his position is the most replaceable this offseason.
There is
some decent options in both free-agency and the draft, which also is why the Bengals would never go for a trade like this IMO, but I can dream.
As far as trading a good defensive player for a "loud" receiver, not many GM's in this league would turn down a chance at one of the best receivers in the league if it meant giving up an average linebacker and an average safety with behavior issues.
In fact, that is what we did with Moss, and look how that trade turned out. :-\




Ben Leber is above average, rember there are experts out there who believe we have the best LB crue in the NFL. We have no average LB's in our starting crue. Leber played on a high level this year and last.

To be honest i would rather pass and continue to build the team this team through the draft like Childress wants to. Easy fix is to draft great players and not have to trade any veteran players away. We are already headed in the right direction, I think Rice is gonna be bomb.

ultravikingfan
01-15-2008, 07:32 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:



He is a baller. Do you remember when he returned 2 interceptions for TD's in the SUPERBOWL!!!!



What he did years ago has nothing to do with he is doing with the Vikings.

jkjuggalo
01-15-2008, 07:45 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"jkjuggalo" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"jkjuggalo" wrote:


Dump the j~~~~~~s!


There are some really good safeties in this year's draft:
Phillips
Steltz
Silva
Harris
Etc.

Plus we have two quality veterans to step in right now in Doss and Tank.
I really like the way both these guys play, and I think Frazier would be just fine plugging a healthy Doss in next season.
My hunch is that is why they brought him in there in the first place.
If I had my druthers, we would be lucky enough to get Phillips, who I think would thrive in our defense.

The other thing I've though about was trading Smith and maybe Leber plus a pick to the Bengals for Chad, but I think Leber is one of Childress' guys.



Trading good defensive players for a loud WR is not cool in my book. Especailly Ben Leber who is a very good football player. Once again some fans may not remember the days where our LB's where garbage but i'm not about ready to trade it away. Ben Leber is as important to this defense as any of our LB's.


While I agree that Leber is a solid LBer, I think his position is the most replaceable this offseason.
There is
some decent options in both free-agency and the draft, which also is why the Bengals would never go for a trade like this IMO, but I can dream.
As far as trading a good defensive player for a "loud" receiver, not many GM's in this league would turn down a chance at one of the best receivers in the league if it meant giving up an average linebacker and an average safety with behavior issues.
In fact, that is what we did with Moss, and look how that trade turned out. :-\




Ben Leber is above average, rember there are experts out there who believe we have the best LB crue in the NFL. We have no average LB's in our starting crue. Leber played on a high level this year and last.

To be honest i would rather pass and continue to build the team this team through the draft like Childress wants to. Easy fix is to draft great players and not have to trade any veteran players away. We are already headed in the right direction, I think Rice is gonna be bomb.


He did have a good season by his standards, but like I said he is average.
I do not dislike Leber nor do I have a strong desire to see him leave, but if he can be used as trade bait then I say go for it.
Here are some more average LBer's with stats comparable to Leber's:

Ben Leber

67 tackles 5 sacks 2 FF 1 INT
Boss Bailey
51 tackles 3.5 sacks
1 FF
Brandon Chillar
65 tackles
2.5 sacks 3 FF
Gerald Hayes
98 tackles
4 sacks
1 FF
1 INT
Kawika Mitchell
76 tackles
3.5 sacks
2 FF
1 INT

Above average players would be guys like Derrick Johnson, Karlos Dansby, etc. IMO.

nikoli
01-15-2008, 08:36 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:




How can you say "Vet Leadership" when all of the cons you listed contradict this?

Guy is nothing but a off the field cancer and an average Safety.
There are plenty of other average safeties that we can get.
We had the worst pass D in the league and he was a big part of that.

Stats are stats, that's all.


I don't think any of the cons exclude him from being a leader except taking games off, but that is debatable, when we get no pressure on the opposing qb it is nearly impossible to stop the pass. How can you say he is a "cancer", do you think his behavior will cause other players to start getting bj's in stairways?


How can you make the connection between no pressure and taking plays off?
You are paid to play, not take plays off.
That is a cancer.


And his off the field behavior is a cancer if it is not dealt with by the team.
Then others could possibly feel inclined to do stupid things off the field because they know not much will happen.

I don't watch the safeties too closely during the games, but I have never seen him taking a nap on the field. Why do you think he takes plays off? It seems unlikely that anyone that it taking plays off would remain on any NFL team for very long.



Yeah I'm not buying into this whole taking plays off thing either. Just because he looks lost at times doesn't mean he's taking plays off.

Fact is that he's the best option we have. We'd be much better off dealing with our problem children than just kicking them to the curb. This is not to say we should let him off completely free and clear... but cutting him for a mistake or two isn't the answer.


Tank is a better option, he played very well this season, and made his presence felt. I'm sure we would have benched Dwight, after the doob cruise fiasco, had Tank been healthy.


That doesn't make much sense to me considering Tank had every opportunity under the sun to beat Smith out of his spot. If Smith was so bad and Tank was so good, he would've wound up starting at some point.

VikingsTw
01-15-2008, 08:45 PM
"jkjuggalo" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"jkjuggalo" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"jkjuggalo" wrote:


Dump the j~~~~~~s!


There are some really good safeties in this year's draft:
Phillips
Steltz
Silva
Harris
Etc.

Plus we have two quality veterans to step in right now in Doss and Tank.
I really like the way both these guys play, and I think Frazier would be just fine plugging a healthy Doss in next season.
My hunch is that is why they brought him in there in the first place.
If I had my druthers, we would be lucky enough to get Phillips, who I think would thrive in our defense.

The other thing I've though about was trading Smith and maybe Leber plus a pick to the Bengals for Chad, but I think Leber is one of Childress' guys.



Trading good defensive players for a loud WR is not cool in my book. Especailly Ben Leber who is a very good football player. Once again some fans may not remember the days where our LB's where garbage but i'm not about ready to trade it away. Ben Leber is as important to this defense as any of our LB's.


While I agree that Leber is a solid LBer, I think his position is the most replaceable this offseason.
There is
some decent options in both free-agency and the draft, which also is why the Bengals would never go for a trade like this IMO, but I can dream.
As far as trading a good defensive player for a "loud" receiver, not many GM's in this league would turn down a chance at one of the best receivers in the league if it meant giving up an average linebacker and an average safety with behavior issues.
In fact, that is what we did with Moss, and look how that trade turned out. :-\




Ben Leber is above average, rember there are experts out there who believe we have the best LB crue in the NFL. We have no average LB's in our starting crue. Leber played on a high level this year and last.

To be honest i would rather pass and continue to build the team this team through the draft like Childress wants to. Easy fix is to draft great players and not have to trade any veteran players away. We are already headed in the right direction, I think Rice is gonna be bomb.


He did have a good season by his standards, but like I said he is average.
I do not dislike Leber nor do I have a strong desire to see him leave, but if he can be used as trade bait then I say go for it.
Here are some more average LBer's with stats comparable to Leber's:

Ben Leber


67 tackles 5 sacks 2 FF 1 INT
Boss Bailey

51 tackles 3.5 sacks
1 FF
Brandon Chillar
65 tackles
2.5 sacks 3 FF
Gerald Hayes
98 tackles
4 sacks
1 FF
1 INT
Kawika Mitchell
76 tackles
3.5 sacks
2 FF
1 INT

Above average players would be guys like Derrick Johnson, Karlos Dansby, etc. IMO.


Yeah here come the stats, i'd rather judge a player on a play by play basis, for all we know those tackles could have been made down field after somebody just gained a chunk. Or all his sacks could be coverage sacks or blown assignments on the oline. Stats don't always tell the real truth, stats are for giving players madden rankings and scoring on your fantasy team, i'm more worried about what he's actually doin on the field, is he blowing coverage, is he missing tackles, ect.

Ben Leber is above average and here to stay.

nikoli
01-15-2008, 08:52 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!

ultravikingfan
01-15-2008, 08:54 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!


It's called an opinion, get used to it.

nikoli
01-15-2008, 09:11 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!


It's called an opinion, get used to it.


It's called a disagreement, get used to it.

VikingsTw
01-15-2008, 09:32 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!


No doubt we finally got a Defense that can play and our fans want to trade the guys who helped build it!!! I still have nightmares about our old defenses...

Jarred Allen would be part of the solution but like you said Kansas City would be crazy, he will most likely be franchised. But you never know, we got Hutch that one year and everybody thought he was a long shot. I think our best shot is to hope some of our young DE's get things going for us. I think Udeze is coming into his own a little bit but we gotta have a guy who can put fear into a QB.

VikingsTw
01-15-2008, 09:42 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:



He is a baller. Do you remember when he returned 2 interceptions for TD's in the SUPERBOWL!!!!



What he did years ago has nothing to do with he is doing with the Vikings.


It doesn't but its a good thing he has continued to make plays on the football field regardless of what team he is on. Plus we know he's capable of making big plays in big games. Thats always a good thing.

Vikes
01-15-2008, 11:12 PM
We keep him for now.

hailtocarter
01-15-2008, 11:17 PM
I know many people think that despite the off the field problems he is a good player, but I just don't see it.
He misses a ton of tackles and looks silly most of the time, he gets burned quite often, and he has a couple a big plays (some lucky).
I think he's a pretty mediocre safety, if not below average.
I would not be mad if he's gone...

ultravikingfan
01-15-2008, 11:21 PM
"hailtocarter" wrote:


I know many people think that despite the off the field problems he is a good player, but I just don't see it.
He misses a ton of tackles and looks silly most of the time, he gets burned quite often, and he has a couple a big plays (some lucky).
I think he's a pretty mediocre safety, if not below average.
I would not be mad if he's gone...


My sentiments exactly.
He does not suck, but is more mediocre.

ultravikingfan
01-15-2008, 11:22 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!


It's called an opinion, get used to it.


It's called a disagreement, get used to it.


You asked WTF is wrong with people and I let you know.
I am well aware of "disagreement" rook.

ThorSPL
01-16-2008, 12:59 AM
Everybody needs to get back to their respective corners....

Schutz
01-16-2008, 01:39 AM
Meh, forget it.
It doesn't matter what people say or do, this will argument will just spring up somewhere else even if people come to their senses in this one.

ultravikingfan
01-16-2008, 02:44 AM
Maybe we should start on online petition.
I heard those work

VikingsTw
01-16-2008, 03:10 AM
"hailtocarter" wrote:


I know many people think that despite the off the field problems he is a good player, but I just don't see it.
He misses a ton of tackles and looks silly most of the time, he gets burned quite often, and he has a couple a big plays (some lucky).
I think he's a pretty mediocre safety, if not below average.
I would not be mad if he's gone...


I don't think there is anybody on our defense that misses a ton of tackles or looks silly, if you where refering to fred smoot i might would agree. I don't think you can play on the vikings starting defense missing a ton of tackles or looking silly.

He's been burned but i've seen worse in a purple uniform.

Sometimes fans consider tipped INT's lucky, some would agree he was doin his job and made the play, football gods wern't there to catch it for him, he made it happen.

We got alot of this around here lately, below average and average. Once again your probably not on the field for us if your below average or just average. We got playmakers everwhere on this defense. Dwight Smith is apart of it.

Dwight Smith's biggest problem is his off the field antics, and it could cost him his job with us.

jkjuggalo
01-16-2008, 03:51 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"jkjuggalo" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"jkjuggalo" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:




Dump the j~~~~~~s!


There are some really good safeties in this year's draft:
Phillips
Steltz
Silva
Harris
Etc.

Plus we have two quality veterans to step in right now in Doss and Tank.
I really like the way both these guys play, and I think Frazier would be just fine plugging a healthy Doss in next season.
My hunch is that is why they brought him in there in the first place.
If I had my druthers, we would be lucky enough to get Phillips, who I think would thrive in our defense.

The other thing I've though about was trading Smith and maybe Leber plus a pick to the Bengals for Chad, but I think Leber is one of Childress' guys.



Trading good defensive players for a loud WR is not cool in my book. Especailly Ben Leber who is a very good football player. Once again some fans may not remember the days where our LB's where garbage but i'm not about ready to trade it away. Ben Leber is as important to this defense as any of our LB's.


While I agree that Leber is a solid LBer, I think his position is the most replaceable this offseason.
There is
some decent options in both free-agency and the draft, which also is why the Bengals would never go for a trade like this IMO, but I can dream.
As far as trading a good defensive player for a "loud" receiver, not many GM's in this league would turn down a chance at one of the best receivers in the league if it meant giving up an average linebacker and an average safety with behavior issues.
In fact, that is what we did with Moss, and look how that trade turned out. :-\




Ben Leber is above average, rember there are experts out there who believe we have the best LB crue in the NFL. We have no average LB's in our starting crue. Leber played on a high level this year and last.

To be honest i would rather pass and continue to build the team this team through the draft like Childress wants to. Easy fix is to draft great players and not have to trade any veteran players away. We are already headed in the right direction, I think Rice is gonna be bomb.


He did have a good season by his standards, but like I said he is average.
I do not dislike Leber nor do I have a strong desire to see him leave, but if he can be used as trade bait then I say go for it.
Here are some more average LBer's with stats comparable to Leber's:

Ben Leber


67 tackles 5 sacks 2 FF 1 INT
Boss Bailey

51 tackles 3.5 sacks
1 FF
Brandon Chillar
65 tackles
2.5 sacks 3 FF
Gerald Hayes
98 tackles
4 sacks
1 FF
1 INT
Kawika Mitchell
76 tackles
3.5 sacks
2 FF
1 INT

Above average players would be guys like Derrick Johnson, Karlos Dansby, etc. IMO.


Yeah here come the stats, i'd rather judge a player on a play by play basis, for all we know those tackles could have been made down field after somebody just gained a chunk. Or all his sacks could be coverage sacks or blown assignments on the oline. Stats don't always tell the real truth, stats are for giving players madden rankings and scoring on your fantasy team, i'm more worried about what he's actually doin on the field, is he blowing coverage, is he missing tackles, ect.

Ben Leber is above average and here to stay.


If stats don't matter than why do we keep them?
Clearly your statistics correlate to how you play the game otherwise they would not have kept them in the days before Madden and fantasy football.
I can remember at least two of Leber's sacks that were because he was left completely unblocked...so what?
It is clear that your opinion on Leber is strong.
My opinion is the opposite and that's fine.
I watched every game the Vikings played this year and a good amount of other NFL games and my opinion is that there are plenty of linebackers with the same abilities that Leber possesses.
All I was saying was that if there was a way to use him as trade bait after he had a solid season, I would be for it.
If he does stay on the team, and I think that is highly probable, I will be rooting for him to be a Pro-Bowler just like everyone else.

digital420
01-16-2008, 07:16 AM
To be honest.. i can't see why any1 would want to trade away a player like Leber..
i'm still wondering how he came to us so cheaply and easily when his play is far above the average.
I would honestly try whatever i can to keep the LB core as it is.

now looking at the subject of the thread..

DSmith has been off/on for us. do i like his play. yes.. do i think Doss would be better?
not sure. I do think that we have a couple 2 many S's.


Sharper is a mainstay for at least 2 more years. maybe in the 2nd year he will be teaching his replacement.
Doss/Tank/Smith.. one of these 3 probably will be used as trade fodder, or be dropped in training camp.
i'm sure Bchill is gonna make them compete for the positions, with only really Sharper having a lockdown on his spot.

DiGiTaL

MindFreak
01-16-2008, 08:26 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"MindFreak" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Overlord" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:




I've seen many people for and against him being on the team. He has 1 more year on his contract, and other then Sharper, the only other safety signed through next season. Doss is gone, Tank is gone unless we resign one of them, but both did nothing for us while they were here.
Pros:
Vet Leadership
2006: 15 games
63tackles
4int 1 forced fumble 1 sack
2007: 14 games
44 tackles 4int 1 retured for a TD 1 Forced Fumble
I know they aren't great numbers, but for someone that seems to take a game off here and there with his play, are pretty solid numbers
Cons:
BJ in stairwell, not that any of us would be against getting one from a cute stranger
"Investigation still ongoing for smoking a little pot"
"Character Issues"
Seems to play when he wants to.
How do the rest of you guys feel about him, should he stay, or should we move in a different direction?



To be honest, none of the off-field stuff bothers me in the slightest.
It is his propensity to arm-tackle rather than delivering the big hit that pisses me off.



Agreed.
He's just not that good considering he's owed $3 million next year.
I know that there's not a great list of safeties available, but I'm sure there are some decent players.
It's not like Smith would get cut and jump to the top of the list or something.

The only thing that really bothers me about his run-in with the law is that he will inevitably plead guilty to possession (or be found guilty) and therefore face a 1 to 4 game suspension at the beginning of the season (probably 4).
To me this is a 'last straw' type thing.


I don't know that he will be found guilty. I don't know that if he is found guilty that he will be suspended(it is a petty misdemeanor charge I believe). I don't that if he is suspended that it will be for the regular season, it might just be for the preseason.

He broke a law, and debating wether pot should or shouldn't be legal is an entirely different debate, but is AP gets benched for a series for being fricken late for a damn bus, then Smith should get a game atleast under the alleged "Culture of accountability"


Wow - you're so Anti-Childress that you've condemned him for something that hasn't even happened yet.
That is absolutely ridiculous.

How quickly you've forgotten that Childress sat Dwight Smith for an entire game in the 2006 season - the season opener, no less - for the incident in the stairwell.
And, yes, Purple Jesus was benched for the first series against Denver - and the Vikings marched right down the field, didn't they.
Would have scored, too, if Chester had kept the ball in his hand.

=Z=

I remember that, and funny how easy it is to enforce a culture of accountability when it's the first game of the season, a little more difficult when you're in a playoff push and short on safties to begin with.
Look, yes i don't care for baldy, but i can't and won't cheer for him to fail, cause by him failing means my team that i love loses. Plain and simple, i don't like him, but i have to deal with it since he is our coach, and while i won't give him my support, i still will and always cheer for my Minnesota Vikings.

nikoli
01-16-2008, 11:00 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!


It's called an opinion, get used to it.


It's called a disagreement, get used to it.


You asked WTF is wrong with people and I let you know.
I am well aware of "disagreement" rook.


Rook? lmao... I've been on teh internets since Al Gore invented this whole thing. Chat boards are nothing new to me.

ultravikingfan
01-16-2008, 12:08 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:




One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!


It's called an opinion, get used to it.


It's called a disagreement, get used to it.


You asked WTF is wrong with people and I let you know.
I am well aware of "disagreement" rook.


Rook? lmao... I've been on teh internets since Al Gore invented this whole thing. Chat boards are nothing new to me.


Well, this place is...rook.

Marrdro
01-16-2008, 12:12 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!

I love it when guys/gals get so attached to a player that they can't see the writing on the wall.

For me it was Joey Browner.
I hated the shit out of Denny for a long time when he came in and said our guy wasn't the stud S I knew he was.
Guess what, Denny was right.......
Tough thing to handle but he was.

Back to the subject at hand.......

So your happy with the defense except for adding a RDE (which most of agree'd on) this year and will be happy to stand pat with them for years to come huh?
You don't think positions that seem to be set should still be addressed by the team?

What is gonna happen after next year with Sharper?
Will he still be able to play at a prowbowl caliber or close to it?

Face it my friend, as much as we all love players like that they will age and thier productivity will drop off.
If the team takes your approach the 2002 defense will be a reality in a pretty short time.

Players come and players go my friend.
It is the organization that will remain (if we get a stadium done).

Webby
01-16-2008, 12:19 PM
"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:




One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!


It's called an opinion, get used to it.


It's called a disagreement, get used to it.


You asked WTF is wrong with people and I let you know.
I am well aware of "disagreement" rook.


Rook? lmao... I've been on teh internets since Al Gore invented this whole thing. Chat boards are nothing new to me.



*tweet*
Personal
foul, unsportsmanlike conduct, Defense.
Personal foul, unsportsmanlike conduct, Offense.
Penalties offset.

Replay the thread.

tb04512
01-16-2008, 12:24 PM
"Webby" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:






One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!


It's called an opinion, get used to it.


It's called a disagreement, get used to it.


You asked WTF is wrong with people and I let you know.
I am well aware of "disagreement" rook.


Rook? lmao... I've been on teh internets since Al Gore invented this whole thing. Chat boards are nothing new to me.



*tweet*
Personal
foul, unsportsmanlike conduct, Defense.
Personal foul, unsportsmanlike conduct, Offense.
Penalties offset.

Replay the thread.


LOL*tweet*... really? tweet? LOL

Marrdro
01-16-2008, 12:26 PM
"Webby" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"nikoli" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:






One more thing i would like to touch upon and almost seems to be rocket science to some fans. Without good pass rush our secondary will always suffer. We havn't had good consistent pass rush in years and when we had it, it was Lance Johnstone who was aging. It is my firm believe Antoine Winfield is a top five CB in this league hands down. Dwight Smith has proven to be solid along with Darren Sharper who is one of the best. Cedric Grifith in his third year will be solid, he's progressed into a solid corner and will only get better. Now only imagine if we had the Giants defensive line, your best coverage is a good pass rush folks, especailly if you want to play a cover 2. Thats why i say Jared Allen to be the #1 FA focus this offseason.


Dude, don't even bother. They won't even aknowledge that point because it would mean they would have to stop hating on Smith and Griff for a second. Lord knows "hate" and "sensibility" don't belong together. It's like they see the phrase "pass rush" and they immediately skip the rest.

I keep reading "cut Smith" or "replace Sharper" or "move Griff"... now people are saying Leber is replaceable?!?!?

WTF is with these people? Let's just open up some holes in pretty solid defense... BRILLIANT!!! I can't wait to have that oh so great 2002 defense all over again
::)

Jarred Allen would be awesome. Unfortunately KC can't be stoopid enough to not tag the guy if they can't reach an agreement. Suggs is scheduled to be a FA last I heard. And I'm pretty sure Jason Taylor could be had for a reasonable trade. Lord knows we have the need!


It's called an opinion, get used to it.


It's called a disagreement, get used to it.


You asked WTF is wrong with people and I let you know.
I am well aware of "disagreement" rook.


Rook? lmao... I've been on teh internets since Al Gore invented this whole thing. Chat boards are nothing new to me.



*tweet*

Personal
foul, unsportsmanlike conduct, Defense.

Personal foul, unsportsmanlike conduct, Offense.

Penalties offset.

Replay the thread.

Hey Webby, can you get us one of these.......

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:wsf1GcFwEavmBM:http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/20345.jpg

Now I'm cracking myself up.
;D

Jereamiah
01-16-2008, 12:56 PM
Hi guys! In my ever so humble opinion, D Smith is no better then Ontarrio Smith or Anyone else that breaks the rules. It comes down to this: The guy put himself before the team by hitting the lettuce KNOWING he could face a suspension and hurt the team. And he did it with the playoffs looming. Trade the guy. Package him with Mewelde and grag a good FA. If you want to hit the green, great, do it in the offseason. at least wait that long. If you can't, then maybe there is a problem that needs to be addressed. See k-rob

ultravikingfan
01-16-2008, 01:09 PM
"Jereamiah" wrote:


Hi guys! In my ever so humble opinion, D Smith is no better then Ontarrio Smith or Anyone else that breaks the rules. It comes down to this: The guy put himself before the team by hitting the lettuce KNOWING he could face a suspension and hurt the team. And he did it with the playoffs looming. Trade the guy. Package him with Mewelde and grag a good FA. If you want to hit the green, great, do it in the offseason. at least wait that long. If you can't, then maybe there is a problem that needs to be addressed. See k-rob


Amen to that

jmcdon00
01-16-2008, 01:43 PM
"Jereamiah" wrote:


Hi guys! In my ever so humble opinion, D Smith is no better then Ontarrio Smith or Anyone else that breaks the rules. It comes down to this: The guy put himself before the team by hitting the lettuce KNOWING he could face a suspension and hurt the team. And he did it with the playoffs looming. Trade the guy. Package him with Mewelde and grag a good FA. If you want to hit the green, great, do it in the offseason. at least wait that long. If you can't, then maybe there is a problem that needs to be addressed. See k-rob

Peterson broke the rules and was late for the team bus(putting himself before the team), should he be traded too? McCinney got in some trouble with the law, should he be gone? Everyone makes mistakes, most on the team have probably broken a team or league rule at some point, often times they don't get caught.
Comparing what Smith did to K-rob is completely unfair. K-rob drove his SUV in a high speed chase while drunk. He easily could have killed somebody or himself. That danger is much greater than the danger of getting suspended.
I am not defending Smith or even saying that he should stay with the team, but I disagree with the way you come to the conclusion.

audioghost
01-16-2008, 01:51 PM
Last I checked K-Rob is gonna be catching passes in the NFC Championship game for a team that cares more about W's than they do about baggage...

Bill Veeck said it best, it doesnt matter what they do in their personal life, as long as it doesnt effect their performance on the field.

The Cokehead Cowboys enjoyed numerous Super Bowls in the 90s...now they're revered as a legacy...a dynasty...with crack pipe Irvin crying on the podium in Canton. In this day-in-age the Cowboys would have been under extreme pressure to trade Irvin and Sanders because of their conduct off the field.

Look, I agree that Dwight Smith should vamoose but not because he was caught with weed or he fornicated some tramp in an apartment stairwell. I could care less...they're football players...they do stupid #@%$...football players do stupid #$*% in college (at every college...DI, DII, NAIA...doesnt matter) and players do stupid #*$% in the pros. Its something that people need to deal with...when you're built up to think your god's gift to football all your life and babied with a silver spoon (even if you came up in the ghetto) and given a free trip to college (a free trip to party...none of these dudes expect to graduate...they view themselves as 'pro athletes in the making'...that they're better than everyone because they can jump high and run fast) you don't have time to deal with stressors such as bills and working a 'real' job so you don't have a chance to grow up. These players are extremely immature because people have given them anything they've ever needed because they can play sports. Sure, they could've grew up in a rough neighboorhood, but from the time someone saw a meal ticket to cash in them, they've been treated like royalty.

Back to my point...Dwight Smith needs to go...not because of his off the field endeavors...but because he isn't that good and we can upgrade the position with someone who has more respect for the game that plays with a fire and a passion thinking of football as more than just "a job". Someone who is trying to be the best ever at his position and not some scrub who just thinks of himself as another NFL employee. Draft someone, get a free agent, whatever you gotta do. Just get rid of Dwight Smith and mover Sharper back to FS where he can make more of an impact from a turnover standpoint because the guy is a ball hawk.

Peace

VikingsTw
01-16-2008, 01:54 PM
"Jereamiah" wrote:


Hi guys! In my ever so humble opinion, D Smith is no better then Ontarrio Smith or Anyone else that breaks the rules. It comes down to this: The guy put himself before the team by hitting the lettuce KNOWING he could face a suspension and hurt the team. And he did it with the playoffs looming. Trade the guy. Package him with Mewelde and grag a good FA. If you want to hit the green, great, do it in the offseason. at least wait that long. If you can't, then maybe there is a problem that needs to be addressed. See k-rob


Onterio was a good football player and he blew it. If he had what it took he might still be here. Vision, Power, Speed, and the abilty to recieve the pass.

Dwight is headed in that direction, he's already had 2 run ins here in two years. He's never been suspended by the league that i know of but like somebody said Childress has disaplined him and thats where i see this going. Take his slap on the hand and walk. We don't have a ton of options and i think he's one of Childress's locker room guys. Best thing to do is let him finish his contract, best thing for us also, its not like we got to resign him to a contract extention.

If he's not gonna be playing the first four games, maybe a rook can beat him out. I see him taking his suspension and coming back to start. Unless we find a stud Safety in the draft, how sweet would that be?

Jereamiah
01-16-2008, 03:20 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Jereamiah" wrote:


Hi guys! In my ever so humble opinion, D Smith is no better then Ontarrio Smith or Anyone else that breaks the rules. It comes down to this: The guy put himself before the team by hitting the lettuce KNOWING he could face a suspension and hurt the team. And he did it with the playoffs looming. Trade the guy. Package him with Mewelde and grag a good FA. If you want to hit the green, great, do it in the offseason. at least wait that long. If you can't, then maybe there is a problem that needs to be addressed. See k-rob

Peterson broke the rules and was late for the team bus(putting himself before the team), should he be traded too? McCinney got in some trouble with the law, should he be gone? Everyone makes mistakes, most on the team have probably broken a team or league rule at some point, often times they don't get caught.
Comparing what Smith did to K-rob is completely unfair. K-rob drove his SUV in a high speed chase while drunk. He easily could have killed somebody or himself. That danger is much greater than the danger of getting suspended.
I am not defending Smith or even saying that he should stay with the team, but I disagree with the way you come to the conclusion.
Smith Should be traded. I also thought that McKinney should have suffered more then he did. Childress came in with this "Accountibility" crap and the love boat players that weren't 1st rounders payed. It was a hypocritical crap fest as far as I was concerned. Also, If a player can't refrain from using an addictive substance (that includes the responsible use of alcohol) during the season, then that player has a problem. K-rob had an alcohol problem. O.Smith had a pot problem. D.Smith has a pot problem. That is a fact! The recreational use of these substances has interferred with each players season. You tell me how that is NOT a problem. We are all hearing about the problem. It is now in the organiaztions lap. Peterson's tardiness is not against the law. Petersons tardiness will not draw a supension from the league. McKinney should have suffered more, he's not even my favorite lineman (as everbody knows) ;D But as for how I came to my conclusions, I'm not the morals police. I slam multiple beers and several crown n cokes on the weekend and sometimes after work. However, I don't do it at work OR WHILE IM ON CALL as The above mentioned did. During the season, those players are on call. They are actively employed by the Vikings 24 hours a day. they should act accordingly. If I had a multi-million $ contract on the line, I think I could lay off the beers. Those guys could not. That is where the problem arises.

ultravikingfan
01-16-2008, 03:29 PM
Here is how I look at things like off the field incidents.

10+ years ago I could've cared less about them.
For one, the internet was not nearly as big as it is today.
So off the field incidents did not get as much hype with the smaller size of the media.
Two, I was a younger, carefree guy without a family back then.
I would've thought as long as the guy can play let's play him.

But now I am older and have kids; one of which is an 11 year old and he plays football and idolizes athletes.
I also coach football so character means a lot to me.
I do not want my son's possible role model being a guy that gets into trouble with the law.
I know you can say it was only pot or a bj.
But, do you want your kids to someday say "but dad, I was only a little joint, what's the harm?"
I for one do not.
Things like that could ruin a young man's chances at achieving his goals.
What if a young man is good enough to play for a quality college program?
Now that program may not want him.
Sure he could play somewhere else, but maybe he really wanted to play there.
Or maybe he gets suspended for a few High School games or the entire season.
He just let down his team and may hurt his chances at college ball.


That is the way I look at it; with the focus on younger kids.

VikingsTw
01-16-2008, 03:44 PM
"audioghost" wrote:


Last I checked K-Rob is gonna be catching passes in the NFC Championship game for a team that cares more about W's than they do about baggage...

Bill Veeck said it best, it doesnt matter what they do in their personal life, as long as it doesnt effect their performance on the field.

The Cokehead Cowboys enjoyed numerous Super Bowls in the 90s...now they're revered as a legacy...a dynasty...with crack pipe Irvin crying on the podium in Canton. In this day-in-age the Cowboys would have been under extreme pressure to trade Irvin and Sanders because of their conduct off the field.

Look, I agree that Dwight Smith should vamoose but not because he was caught with weed or he fornicated some tramp in an apartment stairwell. I could care less...they're football players...they do stupid #@%$...football players do stupid #$*% in college (at every college...DI, DII, NAIA...doesnt matter) and players do stupid #*$% in the pros. Its something that people need to deal with...when you're built up to think your god's gift to football all your life and babied with a silver spoon (even if you came up in the ghetto) and given a free trip to college (a free trip to party...none of these dudes expect to graduate...they view themselves as 'pro athletes in the making'...that they're better than everyone because they can jump high and run fast) you don't have time to deal with stressors such as bills and working a 'real' job so you don't have a chance to grow up. These players are extremely immature because people have given them anything they've ever needed because they can play sports. Sure, they could've grew up in a rough neighboorhood, but from the time someone saw a meal ticket to cash in them, they've been treated like royalty.

Back to my point...Dwight Smith needs to go...not because of his off the field endeavors...but because he isn't that good and we can upgrade the position with someone who has more respect for the game that plays with a fire and a passion thinking of football as more than just "a job". Someone who is trying to be the best ever at his position and not some scrub who just thinks of himself as another NFL employee. Draft someone, get a free agent, whatever you gotta do. Just get rid of Dwight Smith and mover Sharper back to FS where he can make more of an impact from a turnover standpoint because the guy is a ball hawk.

Peace


Good post about the silver spoon feeding and what not. Alot of these guys could never apprciate whats happended for them because they don't know what its like to struggle.

I'm not against moving Sharper back to FS but we don't want to take a step backwards. Getting rid of Smith leaves us in even more of whole. Also Dwight Smith has plenty of fire, he's an agrresive guy who loves to play on Sundays. I think he has respect for the game but he does dumb sh*t and gets caught. Thats the difference between him and the guys that don't get busted.

Its more then evident his off the field issues are causing beef with fans but it doesn't change the fact that he's a good football player. Sometimes a fan can hate so much that before you know it that individual is dilusional.

Whats bein said about his tackling, coverage and passion for the game is absolutly incorrect.

Jereamiah
01-16-2008, 03:49 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"audioghost" wrote:


Last I checked K-Rob is gonna be catching passes in the NFC Championship game for a team that cares more about W's than they do about baggage...

Bill Veeck said it best, it doesnt matter what they do in their personal life, as long as it doesnt effect their performance on the field.

The Cokehead Cowboys enjoyed numerous Super Bowls in the 90s...now they're revered as a legacy...a dynasty...with crack pipe Irvin crying on the podium in Canton. In this day-in-age the Cowboys would have been under extreme pressure to trade Irvin and Sanders because of their conduct off the field.

Look, I agree that Dwight Smith should vamoose but not because he was caught with weed or he fornicated some tramp in an apartment stairwell. I could care less...they're football players...they do stupid #@%$...football players do stupid #$*% in college (at every college...DI, DII, NAIA...doesnt matter) and players do stupid #*$% in the pros. Its something that people need to deal with...when you're built up to think your god's gift to football all your life and babied with a silver spoon (even if you came up in the ghetto) and given a free trip to college (a free trip to party...none of these dudes expect to graduate...they view themselves as 'pro athletes in the making'...that they're better than everyone because they can jump high and run fast) you don't have time to deal with stressors such as bills and working a 'real' job so you don't have a chance to grow up. These players are extremely immature because people have given them anything they've ever needed because they can play sports. Sure, they could've grew up in a rough neighboorhood, but from the time someone saw a meal ticket to cash in them, they've been treated like royalty.

Back to my point...Dwight Smith needs to go...not because of his off the field endeavors...but because he isn't that good and we can upgrade the position with someone who has more respect for the game that plays with a fire and a passion thinking of football as more than just "a job". Someone who is trying to be the best ever at his position and not some scrub who just thinks of himself as another NFL employee. Draft someone, get a free agent, whatever you gotta do. Just get rid of Dwight Smith and mover Sharper back to FS where he can make more of an impact from a turnover standpoint because the guy is a ball hawk.

Peace


Good post about the silver spoon feeding and what not. Alot of these guys could never apprciate whats happended for them because they don't know what its like to struggle.

I'm not against moving Sharper back to FS but we don't want to take a step backwards. Getting rid of Smith leaves us in even more of whole. Also Dwight Smith has plenty of fire, he's an agrresive guy who loves to play on Sundays. I think he has respect for the game but he does dumb sh*t and gets caught. Thats the difference between him and the guys that don't get busted.

Its more then evident his off the field issues are causing beef with fans but it doesn't change the fact that he's a good football player. Sometimes a fan can hate so much that before you know it that individual is dilusional.
Whats bein said about his tackling, coverage and passion for the game is absolutly incorrect.
Very true. I occasionally see spurgeon wynn creeping around my back porch at night and I once saw him peeking in my window. I grab my shotgun and run outside but he always gets away. I hate that bastard. Check out the t-jack thread to see why.

VikingsTw
01-16-2008, 04:13 PM
LMAO!!!

Schutz
01-16-2008, 04:16 PM
"Jereamiah" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"audioghost" wrote:


Last I checked K-Rob is gonna be catching passes in the NFC Championship game for a team that cares more about W's than they do about baggage...

Bill Veeck said it best, it doesnt matter what they do in their personal life, as long as it doesnt effect their performance on the field.

The Cokehead Cowboys enjoyed numerous Super Bowls in the 90s...now they're revered as a legacy...a dynasty...with crack pipe Irvin crying on the podium in Canton. In this day-in-age the Cowboys would have been under extreme pressure to trade Irvin and Sanders because of their conduct off the field.

Look, I agree that Dwight Smith should vamoose but not because he was caught with weed or he fornicated some tramp in an apartment stairwell. I could care less...they're football players...they do stupid #@%$...football players do stupid #$*% in college (at every college...DI, DII, NAIA...doesnt matter) and players do stupid #*$% in the pros. Its something that people need to deal with...when you're built up to think your god's gift to football all your life and babied with a silver spoon (even if you came up in the ghetto) and given a free trip to college (a free trip to party...none of these dudes expect to graduate...they view themselves as 'pro athletes in the making'...that they're better than everyone because they can jump high and run fast) you don't have time to deal with stressors such as bills and working a 'real' job so you don't have a chance to grow up. These players are extremely immature because people have given them anything they've ever needed because they can play sports. Sure, they could've grew up in a rough neighboorhood, but from the time someone saw a meal ticket to cash in them, they've been treated like royalty.

Back to my point...Dwight Smith needs to go...not because of his off the field endeavors...but because he isn't that good and we can upgrade the position with someone who has more respect for the game that plays with a fire and a passion thinking of football as more than just "a job". Someone who is trying to be the best ever at his position and not some scrub who just thinks of himself as another NFL employee. Draft someone, get a free agent, whatever you gotta do. Just get rid of Dwight Smith and mover Sharper back to FS where he can make more of an impact from a turnover standpoint because the guy is a ball hawk.

Peace


Good post about the silver spoon feeding and what not. Alot of these guys could never apprciate whats happended for them because they don't know what its like to struggle.

I'm not against moving Sharper back to FS but we don't want to take a step backwards. Getting rid of Smith leaves us in even more of whole. Also Dwight Smith has plenty of fire, he's an agrresive guy who loves to play on Sundays. I think he has respect for the game but he does dumb sh*t and gets caught. Thats the difference between him and the guys that don't get busted.

Its more then evident his off the field issues are causing beef with fans but it doesn't change the fact that he's a good football player. Sometimes a fan can hate so much that before you know it that individual is dilusional.
Whats bein said about his tackling, coverage and passion for the game is absolutly incorrect.
Very true. I occasionally see spurgeon wynn creeping around my back porch at night and I once saw him peeking in my window. I grab my shotgun and run outside but he always gets away. I hate that bastard. Check out the t-jack thread to see why.


LOL!
*clapping*

jmcdon00
01-16-2008, 04:34 PM
"Jereamiah" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Jereamiah" wrote:


Hi guys! In my ever so humble opinion, D Smith is no better then Ontarrio Smith or Anyone else that breaks the rules. It comes down to this: The guy put himself before the team by hitting the lettuce KNOWING he could face a suspension and hurt the team. And he did it with the playoffs looming. Trade the guy. Package him with Mewelde and grag a good FA. If you want to hit the green, great, do it in the offseason. at least wait that long. If you can't, then maybe there is a problem that needs to be addressed. See k-rob

Peterson broke the rules and was late for the team bus(putting himself before the team), should he be traded too? McCinney got in some trouble with the law, should he be gone? Everyone makes mistakes, most on the team have probably broken a team or league rule at some point, often times they don't get caught.
Comparing what Smith did to K-rob is completely unfair. K-rob drove his SUV in a high speed chase while drunk. He easily could have killed somebody or himself. That danger is much greater than the danger of getting suspended.
I am not defending Smith or even saying that he should stay with the team, but I disagree with the way you come to the conclusion.
Smith Should be traded. I also thought that McKinney should have suffered more then he did. Childress came in with this "Accountibility" crap and the love boat players that weren't 1st rounders payed. It was a hypocritical crap fest as far as I was concerned. Also, If a player can't refrain from using an addictive substance (that includes the responsible use of alcohol) during the season, then that player has a problem. K-rob had an alcohol problem. O.Smith had a pot problem. D.Smith has a pot problem. That is a fact! The recreational use of these substances has interferred with each players season. You tell me how that is NOT a problem. We are all hearing about the problem. It is now in the organiaztions lap. Peterson's tardiness is not against the law. Petersons tardiness will not draw a supension from the league. McKinney should have suffered more, he's not even my favorite lineman (as everbody knows) ;D But as for how I came to my conclusions, I'm not the morals police. I slam multiple beers and several crown n cokes on the weekend and sometimes after work. However, I don't do it at work OR WHILE IM ON CALL as The above mentioned did. During the season, those players are on call. They are actively employed by the Vikings 24 hours a day. they should act accordingly. If I had a multi-million $ contract on the line, I think I could lay off the beers. Those guys could not. That is where the problem arises.

Good post. I never said that Dwight doesn't have a problem, he clearly does. My only point was that most players do not put the team first 24/7 365 days a year. Peterson's tardiness did cause him to get suspended for one series, which lessoned the teams chances of winning that game. I have heard that for every one person that gets caught drinking and driving 500 get away with it, I would guess a lower percentage of people that possess marijuana get charged.

The point about the million dollar contract I think is over used, he has plenty of money, probably more than I will make in a lifetime. If he doesn't work(or play in his case)for the rest of his life he could still live very comfortably. He has less to lose than someone making 30k a year that is just getting by, if he loses his job he can't pay the bills, feed the family etc.

Football players are not the only people that make dumb decisions. Millions of people have a DUI on their record. Some have drug addictions, some lose their jobs for smoking pot. Many spend all their money on gambling or strippers. Millions of americans are in prison or jail for various illegal acts.
This idea that football players are disproportionatly immature is over-rated. All NFL players have worked very hard and made sacrifices to make it to the NFL.

Jereamiah
01-16-2008, 04:49 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Jereamiah" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Jereamiah" wrote:


Hi guys! In my ever so humble opinion, D Smith is no better then Ontarrio Smith or Anyone else that breaks the rules. It comes down to this: The guy put himself before the team by hitting the lettuce KNOWING he could face a suspension and hurt the team. And he did it with the playoffs looming. Trade the guy. Package him with Mewelde and grag a good FA. If you want to hit the green, great, do it in the offseason. at least wait that long. If you can't, then maybe there is a problem that needs to be addressed. See k-rob

Peterson broke the rules and was late for the team bus(putting himself before the team), should he be traded too? McCinney got in some trouble with the law, should he be gone? Everyone makes mistakes, most on the team have probably broken a team or league rule at some point, often times they don't get caught.
Comparing what Smith did to K-rob is completely unfair. K-rob drove his SUV in a high speed chase while drunk. He easily could have killed somebody or himself. That danger is much greater than the danger of getting suspended.
I am not defending Smith or even saying that he should stay with the team, but I disagree with the way you come to the conclusion.
Smith Should be traded. I also thought that McKinney should have suffered more then he did. Childress came in with this "Accountibility" crap and the love boat players that weren't 1st rounders payed. It was a hypocritical crap fest as far as I was concerned. Also, If a player can't refrain from using an addictive substance (that includes the responsible use of alcohol) during the season, then that player has a problem. K-rob had an alcohol problem. O.Smith had a pot problem. D.Smith has a pot problem. That is a fact! The recreational use of these substances has interferred with each players season. You tell me how that is NOT a problem. We are all hearing about the problem. It is now in the organiaztions lap. Peterson's tardiness is not against the law. Petersons tardiness will not draw a supension from the league. McKinney should have suffered more, he's not even my favorite lineman (as everbody knows) ;D But as for how I came to my conclusions, I'm not the morals police. I slam multiple beers and several crown n cokes on the weekend and sometimes after work. However, I don't do it at work OR WHILE IM ON CALL as The above mentioned did. During the season, those players are on call. They are actively employed by the Vikings 24 hours a day. they should act accordingly. If I had a multi-million $ contract on the line, I think I could lay off the beers. Those guys could not. That is where the problem arises.

Good post. I never said that Dwight doesn't have a problem, he clearly does. My only point was that most players do not put the team first 24/7 365 days a year. Peterson's tardiness did cause him to get suspended for one series, which lessoned the teams chances of winning that game. I have heard that for every one person that gets caught drinking and driving 500 get away with it, I would guess a lower percentage of people that possess marijuana get charged.

The point about the million dollar contract I think is over used, he has plenty of money, probably more than I will make in a lifetime. If he doesn't work(or play in his case)for the rest of his life he could still live very comfortably. He has less to lose than someone making 30k a year that is just getting by, if he loses his job he can't pay the bills, feed the family etc.

Football players are not the only people that make dumb decisions. Millions of people have a DUI on their record. Some have drug addictions, some lose their jobs for smoking pot. Many spend all their money on gambling or strippers. Millions of americans are in prison or jail for various illegal acts.
This idea that football players are disproportionatly immature is over-rated. All NFL players have worked very hard and made sacrifices to make it to the NFL.
Including me, in 1998. Learned my lesson though. I wholeheartedly respect your opinion though. I just think that the 'Vikes are on some kind of weird probation or something. Commentators just LOVE to say LOVEBOAT. Joe Buck brings it up constantly (seems like it to me anyway), the less 'Vikes players are mentioned (for extracurricular stuff) the better. Just drives me nuts

VikingsTw
01-16-2008, 05:28 PM
Speak of Devil.

ESPN had to throw that in with whats goin on with moss, loveboat this loveboat that. Why even mention it?

Marrdro
01-17-2008, 11:21 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


Speak of Devil.

ESPN had to throw that in with whats goin on with moss, loveboat this loveboat that. Why even mention it?

And thus the reason why the Ownership Group seems to get rid of players with character flaws no matter how talented we might think he is.
Just holds back things like stadium efforts etc.

Purple D
01-17-2008, 11:27 AM
"Jereamiah" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Jereamiah" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


"Jereamiah" wrote:


Hi guys! In my ever so humble opinion, D Smith is no better then Ontarrio Smith or Anyone else that breaks the rules. It comes down to this: The guy put himself before the team by hitting the lettuce KNOWING he could face a suspension and hurt the team. And he did it with the playoffs looming. Trade the guy. Package him with Mewelde and grag a good FA. If you want to hit the green, great, do it in the offseason. at least wait that long. If you can't, then maybe there is a problem that needs to be addressed. See k-rob

Peterson broke the rules and was late for the team bus(putting himself before the team), should he be traded too? McCinney got in some trouble with the law, should he be gone? Everyone makes mistakes, most on the team have probably broken a team or league rule at some point, often times they don't get caught.
Comparing what Smith did to K-rob is completely unfair. K-rob drove his SUV in a high speed chase while drunk. He easily could have killed somebody or himself. That danger is much greater than the danger of getting suspended.
I am not defending Smith or even saying that he should stay with the team, but I disagree with the way you come to the conclusion.
Smith Should be traded. I also thought that McKinney should have suffered more then he did. Childress came in with this "Accountibility" crap and the love boat players that weren't 1st rounders payed. It was a hypocritical crap fest as far as I was concerned. Also, If a player can't refrain from using an addictive substance (that includes the responsible use of alcohol) during the season, then that player has a problem. K-rob had an alcohol problem. O.Smith had a pot problem. D.Smith has a pot problem. That is a fact! The recreational use of these substances has interferred with each players season. You tell me how that is NOT a problem. We are all hearing about the problem. It is now in the organiaztions lap. Peterson's tardiness is not against the law. Petersons tardiness will not draw a supension from the league. McKinney should have suffered more, he's not even my favorite lineman (as everbody knows) ;D But as for how I came to my conclusions, I'm not the morals police. I slam multiple beers and several crown n cokes on the weekend and sometimes after work. However, I don't do it at work OR WHILE IM ON CALL as The above mentioned did. During the season, those players are on call. They are actively employed by the Vikings 24 hours a day. they should act accordingly. If I had a multi-million $ contract on the line, I think I could lay off the beers. Those guys could not. That is where the problem arises.

Good post. I never said that Dwight doesn't have a problem, he clearly does. My only point was that most players do not put the team first 24/7 365 days a year. Peterson's tardiness did cause him to get suspended for one series, which lessoned the teams chances of winning that game. I have heard that for every one person that gets caught drinking and driving 500 get away with it, I would guess a lower percentage of people that possess marijuana get charged.

The point about the million dollar contract I think is over used, he has plenty of money, probably more than I will make in a lifetime. If he doesn't work(or play in his case)for the rest of his life he could still live very comfortably. He has less to lose than someone making 30k a year that is just getting by, if he loses his job he can't pay the bills, feed the family etc.

Football players are not the only people that make dumb decisions. Millions of people have a DUI on their record. Some have drug addictions, some lose their jobs for smoking pot. Many spend all their money on gambling or strippers. Millions of americans are in prison or jail for various illegal acts.
This idea that football players are disproportionatly immature is over-rated. All NFL players have worked very hard and made sacrifices to make it to the NFL.
Including me, in 1998. Learned my lesson though. I wholeheartedly respect your opinion though. I just think that the 'Vikes are on some kind of weird probation or something. Commentators just LOVE to say LOVEBOAT. Joe Buck brings it up constantly (seems like it to me anyway), the less 'Vikes players are mentioned (for extracurricular stuff) the better. Just drives me nuts

I hate Joe Buck!!!!! He is a retard.
He is the one that blew the Lambeau Mooning incident way out of proportion.
He is that kid that got his milk money stolen all through school and now he is getting back at the popular jocks.
He needs to get off of the vikings.

audioghost
01-17-2008, 12:14 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"audioghost" wrote:


Last I checked K-Rob is gonna be catching passes in the NFC Championship game for a team that cares more about W's than they do about baggage...

Bill Veeck said it best, it doesnt matter what they do in their personal life, as long as it doesnt effect their performance on the field.

The Cokehead Cowboys enjoyed numerous Super Bowls in the 90s...now they're revered as a legacy...a dynasty...with crack pipe Irvin crying on the podium in Canton. In this day-in-age the Cowboys would have been under extreme pressure to trade Irvin and Sanders because of their conduct off the field.

Look, I agree that Dwight Smith should vamoose but not because he was caught with weed or he fornicated some tramp in an apartment stairwell. I could care less...they're football players...they do stupid #@%$...football players do stupid #$*% in college (at every college...DI, DII, NAIA...doesnt matter) and players do stupid #*$% in the pros. Its something that people need to deal with...when you're built up to think your god's gift to football all your life and babied with a silver spoon (even if you came up in the ghetto) and given a free trip to college (a free trip to party...none of these dudes expect to graduate...they view themselves as 'pro athletes in the making'...that they're better than everyone because they can jump high and run fast) you don't have time to deal with stressors such as bills and working a 'real' job so you don't have a chance to grow up. These players are extremely immature because people have given them anything they've ever needed because they can play sports. Sure, they could've grew up in a rough neighboorhood, but from the time someone saw a meal ticket to cash in them, they've been treated like royalty.

Back to my point...Dwight Smith needs to go...not because of his off the field endeavors...but because he isn't that good and we can upgrade the position with someone who has more respect for the game that plays with a fire and a passion thinking of football as more than just "a job". Someone who is trying to be the best ever at his position and not some scrub who just thinks of himself as another NFL employee. Draft someone, get a free agent, whatever you gotta do. Just get rid of Dwight Smith and mover Sharper back to FS where he can make more of an impact from a turnover standpoint because the guy is a ball hawk.

Peace


Good post about the silver spoon feeding and what not. Alot of these guys could never apprciate whats happended for them because they don't know what its like to struggle.

I'm not against moving Sharper back to FS but we don't want to take a step backwards. Getting rid of Smith leaves us in even more of whole. Also Dwight Smith has plenty of fire, he's an agrresive guy who loves to play on Sundays. I think he has respect for the game but he does dumb sh*t and gets caught. Thats the difference between him and the guys that don't get busted.

Its more then evident his off the field issues are causing beef with fans but it doesn't change the fact that he's a good football player. Sometimes a fan can hate so much that before you know it that individual is dilusional.

Whats bein said about his tackling, coverage and passion for the game is absolutly incorrect.


I disagree...I'm not one of those fans that takes a player's off-the-field life into consideration when I make a judgment on his on-the-field skill. Sure Dwight Smith is talented but he doesnt seem like a team player. Sure, he will take an INT 90-some odd yards to the house but when Clinton Portis is in position to score the go ahead TD on the 4 yard line in the game the Vikings NEED to get into the postseason and Dwight Smith is the only guy in front of him, Smith punks out and doesnt even make a serious attempt at tackling him. Any play this dude makes on the field is about him, his stats, how many INTs can Dwight Smith get this year?, what can Dwight Smith do to increase his contract?

We could get somebody better...Smith is not that dope. When he was cut loose by New Orleans there wasnt teams knocking down his door to get his services...nobody wanted him, except us...because Tank Williams had just went down for the season in training camp and it was either Greg Blue (rookie) or nobody. The Vikings need to upgrade the defensive backfield. Winfield and Sharper are great but people still pass for a ton of yards on our defense...we also need a legit pass rusher but thats another stone Im not gonna turn over for now.

Smith makes plays for Dwight Smith....the Vikings need a guy who makes plays for the Vikings...period.

VikingsTw
01-18-2008, 06:20 AM
"audioghost" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"audioghost" wrote:


Last I checked K-Rob is gonna be catching passes in the NFC Championship game for a team that cares more about W's than they do about baggage...

Bill Veeck said it best, it doesnt matter what they do in their personal life, as long as it doesnt effect their performance on the field.

The Cokehead Cowboys enjoyed numerous Super Bowls in the 90s...now they're revered as a legacy...a dynasty...with crack pipe Irvin crying on the podium in Canton. In this day-in-age the Cowboys would have been under extreme pressure to trade Irvin and Sanders because of their conduct off the field.

Look, I agree that Dwight Smith should vamoose but not because he was caught with weed or he fornicated some tramp in an apartment stairwell. I could care less...they're football players...they do stupid #@%$...football players do stupid #$*% in college (at every college...DI, DII, NAIA...doesnt matter) and players do stupid #*$% in the pros. Its something that people need to deal with...when you're built up to think your god's gift to football all your life and babied with a silver spoon (even if you came up in the ghetto) and given a free trip to college (a free trip to party...none of these dudes expect to graduate...they view themselves as 'pro athletes in the making'...that they're better than everyone because they can jump high and run fast) you don't have time to deal with stressors such as bills and working a 'real' job so you don't have a chance to grow up. These players are extremely immature because people have given them anything they've ever needed because they can play sports. Sure, they could've grew up in a rough neighboorhood, but from the time someone saw a meal ticket to cash in them, they've been treated like royalty.

Back to my point...Dwight Smith needs to go...not because of his off the field endeavors...but because he isn't that good and we can upgrade the position with someone who has more respect for the game that plays with a fire and a passion thinking of football as more than just "a job". Someone who is trying to be the best ever at his position and not some scrub who just thinks of himself as another NFL employee. Draft someone, get a free agent, whatever you gotta do. Just get rid of Dwight Smith and mover Sharper back to FS where he can make more of an impact from a turnover standpoint because the guy is a ball hawk.

Peace


Good post about the silver spoon feeding and what not. Alot of these guys could never apprciate whats happended for them because they don't know what its like to struggle.

I'm not against moving Sharper back to FS but we don't want to take a step backwards. Getting rid of Smith leaves us in even more of whole. Also Dwight Smith has plenty of fire, he's an agrresive guy who loves to play on Sundays. I think he has respect for the game but he does dumb sh*t and gets caught. Thats the difference between him and the guys that don't get busted.

Its more then evident his off the field issues are causing beef with fans but it doesn't change the fact that he's a good football player. Sometimes a fan can hate so much that before you know it that individual is dilusional.

Whats bein said about his tackling, coverage and passion for the game is absolutly incorrect.


I disagree...I'm not one of those fans that takes a player's off-the-field life into consideration when I make a judgment on his on-the-field skill. Sure Dwight Smith is talented but he doesnt seem like a team player. Sure, he will take an INT 90-some odd yards to the house but when Clinton Portis is in position to score the go ahead TD on the 4 yard line in the game the Vikings NEED to get into the postseason and Dwight Smith is the only guy in front of him, Smith punks out and doesnt even make a serious attempt at tackling him. Any play this dude makes on the field is about him, his stats, how many INTs can Dwight Smith get this year?, what can Dwight Smith do to increase his contract?

We could get somebody better...Smith is not that dope. When he was cut loose by New Orleans there wasnt teams knocking down his door to get his services...nobody wanted him, except us...because Tank Williams had just went down for the season in training camp and it was either Greg Blue (rookie) or nobody. The Vikings need to upgrade the defensive backfield. Winfield and Sharper are great but people still pass for a ton of yards on our defense...we also need a legit pass rusher but thats another stone Im not gonna turn over for now.

Smith makes plays for Dwight Smith....the Vikings need a guy who makes plays for the Vikings...period.


http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-24/115346176275740.xml&coll=1

Bottom of the page, Minnesota, Oakland, Dallas, and Tampa Bay. Thanks to Mike Tomlin we had the connection and got him in there and signed.

See I don't know how you can be in Childress's "Veteran Crue" and not be a team player. When i watch Smith play football i see a guy that plays with passion. Me guys don't go around the locker telling every player to keep there heads up and take it one game at a time, and thats coming after a complete @$$ kicking. We won five games in a row after that.

Clinton Portis is an Elite RB he makes alot of defenders look silly.

I don't think there is an imediate upgrade available at this time, unless somebody becomes a cap casulty. Although we have had sucess with finding underated guys in FA. Draft is still the best bet, but he won't be ready this year.

Dwight Smith has two strikes, strike three should automaticly result in a release. Its a contract year and if he's so gun ho about money he'll behave himself.

VikingsTw
01-18-2008, 06:27 AM
By the way if you read the whole article it continues to explain how well he played in his 1 year with the saints. Jim Hasslet and the Defensive Corndinator were supposobly praising him for his play quite often. Maybe they see the same things I do.