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cogitans
01-03-2008, 03:18 AM
Free agent Johnson to shop around (http://www.twincities.com/ci_7867034?source=rss)

Defensive tackle will explore his options

BY SEAN JENSEN
Pioneer Press

DaVizzles
01-03-2008, 03:36 AM
I hope we are able to get him resigned. We really have no depth at DT so if either Pat or Kevin got hurt we would be screwed, also he played pretty well on 3rd downs when they sub Pat out.

I also hope we are able to resign T-Rich. Is is one of the leaders on this team and obviously a really talented player considering he made the probowl.

Hopefully Chilly has some interesting things to say tomorrow...well I guess today since it is 3:00 in the morning. :)

PurpleTide
01-03-2008, 07:10 AM
We have a few FA's that may not be resigned. Dontarious Thomas, as much as I like him, with Rufus Alexander coming back could be starting somewhere else, along with Spencer Johnson wanting to start, so if he is given a chance will be gone, making the signing of Fred Evans important. Darrion Scott could also be playing elsewhere as we will certainly get a big time pass rusher at RDE, which will push B. Robison to the LDE position, battling Jaymee Mitchell for playing time spelling Udeze.

Marrdro
01-03-2008, 09:50 AM
I actually would like to see him stay but if he is gonna take the stance that he wants to shop around, that is ok as well.

Probably why the front office went after Fred Evans this year anyway.


As the article says, he is a bit of a tweener between the LDE and DT position which brings some extra speed to the position when Phat Pat goes out but I think Evans will fill that void nicely as well as I believe we will see a DT taken at somepoint in the draft as well.

90 Fred Evans DT 24 6-4 305 2 Texas State

97 Spencer Johnson DT 26 6-3 286 4 Auburn
93 Kevin Williams DL 27 6-5 311 5 Oklahoma State
94 Pat Williams DL 35 6-3 317 11 Texas A&M

Truth be told, I don't think we need to carry more than 4 DT's anyways as in most cases I would look to see a LDE guy come in to spell Phat Pat during obvious passing situations.

I kindof like the line of

New VET RDE
Kwill
Keneche
Ray Edwards

On passing situations.
That would be some heat my friends.

cogitans
01-03-2008, 10:11 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


I actually would like to see him stay but if he is gonna take the stance that he wants to shop around, that is ok as well.

Probably why the front office went after Fred Evans this year anyway.


As the article says, he is a bit of a tweener between the LDE and DT position which brings some extra speed to the position when Phat Pat goes out but I think Evans will fill that void nicely as well as I believe we will see a DT taken at somepoint in the draft as well.

90 Fred Evans DT 24 6-4 305 2 Texas State

97 Spencer Johnson DT 26 6-3 286 4 Auburn
93 Kevin Williams DL 27 6-5 311 5 Oklahoma State
94 Pat Williams DL 35 6-3 317 11 Texas A&M

Truth be told, I don't think we need to carry more than 4 DT's anyways as in most cases I would look to see a LDE guy come in to spell Phat Pat during obvious passing situations.

I kindof like the line of

New VET RDE
Kwill
Keneche
Ray Edwards

On passing situations.
That would be some heat my friends.


I'm not sure about that. Do you really want KU to line up at the NT. I think that's where Spencer would line up. It would be a death sin to move KWill away from the 3 technique spot that he excels at.

Marrdro
01-03-2008, 10:19 AM
"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


I actually would like to see him stay but if he is gonna take the stance that he wants to shop around, that is ok as well.

Probably why the front office went after Fred Evans this year anyway.


As the article says, he is a bit of a tweener between the LDE and DT position which brings some extra speed to the position when Phat Pat goes out but I think Evans will fill that void nicely as well as I believe we will see a DT taken at somepoint in the draft as well.

90 Fred Evans DT 24 6-4 305 2 Texas State

97 Spencer Johnson DT 26 6-3 286 4 Auburn
93 Kevin Williams DL 27 6-5 311 5 Oklahoma State
94 Pat Williams DL 35 6-3 317 11 Texas A&M

Truth be told, I don't think we need to carry more than 4 DT's anyways as in most cases I would look to see a LDE guy come in to spell Phat Pat during obvious passing situations.

I kindof like the line of

New VET RDE
Kwill
Keneche
Ray Edwards

On passing situations.
That would be some heat my friends.


I'm not sure about that. Do you really want KU to line up at the NT. I think that's where Spencer would line up. It would be a death sin to move KWill away from the 3 technique spot that he excels at.

I agree that would be dumb in our base 4-3 defense, but I am talking about a 3rd and long situation (i.e. 3rd 15, 3rd 12, etc) were we want pass rushers on the field.

I have seen several teams this year (Vikes included) that put 4 DE's on the line at once in a situation like that.
Again, not our base defense.

cogitans
01-03-2008, 10:22 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


I actually would like to see him stay but if he is gonna take the stance that he wants to shop around, that is ok as well.

Probably why the front office went after Fred Evans this year anyway.


As the article says, he is a bit of a tweener between the LDE and DT position which brings some extra speed to the position when Phat Pat goes out but I think Evans will fill that void nicely as well as I believe we will see a DT taken at somepoint in the draft as well.

90 Fred Evans DT 24 6-4 305 2 Texas State

97 Spencer Johnson DT 26 6-3 286 4 Auburn
93 Kevin Williams DL 27 6-5 311 5 Oklahoma State
94 Pat Williams DL 35 6-3 317 11 Texas A&M

Truth be told, I don't think we need to carry more than 4 DT's anyways as in most cases I would look to see a LDE guy come in to spell Phat Pat during obvious passing situations.

I kindof like the line of

New VET RDE
Kwill
Keneche
Ray Edwards

On passing situations.
That would be some heat my friends.


I'm not sure about that. Do you really want KU to line up at the NT. I think that's where Spencer would line up. It would be a death sin to move KWill away from the 3 technique spot that he excels at.

I agree that would be dumb in our base 4-3 defense, but I am talking about a 3rd and long situation (i.e. 3rd 15, 3rd 12, etc) were we want pass rushers on the field.

I have seen several teams this year (Vikes included) that put 4 DE's on the line at once in a situation like that.
Again, not our base defense.
I knew what you meant. I didn't know that people put 4 DEs in there.

But someone still has to line up at the NT position. Spencer has done it, as he has better pass rush abilities, even from that position. I still don't want to move KWill out of his position.

Marrdro
01-03-2008, 10:36 AM
"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


I actually would like to see him stay but if he is gonna take the stance that he wants to shop around, that is ok as well.

Probably why the front office went after Fred Evans this year anyway.


As the article says, he is a bit of a tweener between the LDE and DT position which brings some extra speed to the position when Phat Pat goes out but I think Evans will fill that void nicely as well as I believe we will see a DT taken at somepoint in the draft as well.

90 Fred Evans DT 24 6-4 305 2 Texas State

97 Spencer Johnson DT 26 6-3 286 4 Auburn
93 Kevin Williams DL 27 6-5 311 5 Oklahoma State
94 Pat Williams DL 35 6-3 317 11 Texas A&M

Truth be told, I don't think we need to carry more than 4 DT's anyways as in most cases I would look to see a LDE guy come in to spell Phat Pat during obvious passing situations.

I kindof like the line of

New VET RDE
Kwill
Keneche
Ray Edwards

On passing situations.
That would be some heat my friends.


I'm not sure about that. Do you really want KU to line up at the NT. I think that's where Spencer would line up. It would be a death sin to move KWill away from the 3 technique spot that he excels at.

I agree that would be dumb in our base 4-3 defense, but I am talking about a 3rd and long situation (i.e. 3rd 15, 3rd 12, etc) were we want pass rushers on the field.

I have seen several teams this year (Vikes included) that put 4 DE's on the line at once in a situation like that.
Again, not our base defense.
I knew what you meant. I didn't know that people put 4 DEs in there.

But someone still has to line up at the NT position. Spencer has done it, as he has better pass rush abilities, even from that position. I still don't want to move KWill out of his position.

Don't think of him (the DT) as out of position as thier role/assignment actually changes in a scheme like that.
The will stunt/shift thier gaps regardless of were they start based on what they percieve the play is gonna be and based on what EJ (MLB) calls pre-snap.

It is all very interesting with respect to what happens at the C, QB, MLB positions just before the ball is snapped.
That is what I miss about Del.
He could talk a heck of alot more indepth than I ever will be able to about how a play comes in during the huddle and then how it can be changed (audible) or modified based on what the QB sees pre-snap and the C line call role along with the MLB's responsibility right down to the Safteties call.

Anyway, I actually saw the Vikes have either or (K-will/Phat Pat) in on this alignment.
As to moving them out of position, I also saw them put K-will at DE at times, and drop all DL (yes even Phat Pat) into coverage.

That type of versatility really does make it hard for young QB's and C to recognize the blitz/coverage.

Almost all teams do it by the way that shift between a base 4-3 and a 3-4 as we saw Leslie do this year.

cogitans
01-03-2008, 10:49 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


I actually would like to see him stay but if he is gonna take the stance that he wants to shop around, that is ok as well.

Probably why the front office went after Fred Evans this year anyway.


As the article says, he is a bit of a tweener between the LDE and DT position which brings some extra speed to the position when Phat Pat goes out but I think Evans will fill that void nicely as well as I believe we will see a DT taken at somepoint in the draft as well.

90 Fred Evans DT 24 6-4 305 2 Texas State

97 Spencer Johnson DT 26 6-3 286 4 Auburn
93 Kevin Williams DL 27 6-5 311 5 Oklahoma State
94 Pat Williams DL 35 6-3 317 11 Texas A&M

Truth be told, I don't think we need to carry more than 4 DT's anyways as in most cases I would look to see a LDE guy come in to spell Phat Pat during obvious passing situations.

I kindof like the line of

New VET RDE
Kwill
Keneche
Ray Edwards

On passing situations.
That would be some heat my friends.


I'm not sure about that. Do you really want KU to line up at the NT. I think that's where Spencer would line up. It would be a death sin to move KWill away from the 3 technique spot that he excels at.

I agree that would be dumb in our base 4-3 defense, but I am talking about a 3rd and long situation (i.e. 3rd 15, 3rd 12, etc) were we want pass rushers on the field.

I have seen several teams this year (Vikes included) that put 4 DE's on the line at once in a situation like that.
Again, not our base defense.
I knew what you meant. I didn't know that people put 4 DEs in there.

But someone still has to line up at the NT position. Spencer has done it, as he has better pass rush abilities, even from that position. I still don't want to move KWill out of his position.

Don't think of him (the DT) as out of position as thier role/assignment actually changes in a scheme like that.
The will stunt/shift thier gaps regardless of were they start based on what they percieve the play is gonna be and based on what EJ (MLB) calls pre-snap.

It is all very interesting with respect to what happens at the C, QB, MLB positions just before the ball is snapped.
That is what I miss about Del.
He could talk a heck of alot more indepth than I ever will be able to about how a play comes in during the huddle and then how it can be changed (audible) or modified based on what the QB sees pre-snap and the C line call role along with the MLB's responsibility right down to the Safteties call.

Anyway, I actually saw the Vikes have either or (K-will/Phat Pat) in on this alignment.
As to moving them out of position, I also saw them put K-will at DE at times, and drop all DL (yes even Phat Pat) into coverage.

That type of versatility really does make it hard for young QB's and C to recognize the blitz/coverage.

Almost all teams do it by the way that shift between a base 4-3 and a 3-4 as we saw Leslie do this year.


Well I saw Pat drop into coverage as well. It were funny as hell to see him back peddle.

But I think we need a more classic DT also in the passing situations, if we don't want to create a miss match. Maybe Evans is enough.

I don't want to over simplify. But I know there goes a whole lot into the complexity of a defense, and it goes over my head to discuss it in depth.

I predicted last year that we would take a DT on day 2 of the draft. It didn't happen, but I'll risk it and predict it again this year.

Marrdro
01-03-2008, 10:56 AM
"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:




I actually would like to see him stay but if he is gonna take the stance that he wants to shop around, that is ok as well.

Probably why the front office went after Fred Evans this year anyway.


As the article says, he is a bit of a tweener between the LDE and DT position which brings some extra speed to the position when Phat Pat goes out but I think Evans will fill that void nicely as well as I believe we will see a DT taken at somepoint in the draft as well.

90 Fred Evans DT 24 6-4 305 2 Texas State

97 Spencer Johnson DT 26 6-3 286 4 Auburn
93 Kevin Williams DL 27 6-5 311 5 Oklahoma State
94 Pat Williams DL 35 6-3 317 11 Texas A&M

Truth be told, I don't think we need to carry more than 4 DT's anyways as in most cases I would look to see a LDE guy come in to spell Phat Pat during obvious passing situations.

I kindof like the line of

New VET RDE
Kwill
Keneche
Ray Edwards

On passing situations.
That would be some heat my friends.


I'm not sure about that. Do you really want KU to line up at the NT. I think that's where Spencer would line up. It would be a death sin to move KWill away from the 3 technique spot that he excels at.

I agree that would be dumb in our base 4-3 defense, but I am talking about a 3rd and long situation (i.e. 3rd 15, 3rd 12, etc) were we want pass rushers on the field.

I have seen several teams this year (Vikes included) that put 4 DE's on the line at once in a situation like that.
Again, not our base defense.
I knew what you meant. I didn't know that people put 4 DEs in there.

But someone still has to line up at the NT position. Spencer has done it, as he has better pass rush abilities, even from that position. I still don't want to move KWill out of his position.

Don't think of him (the DT) as out of position as thier role/assignment actually changes in a scheme like that.
The will stunt/shift thier gaps regardless of were they start based on what they percieve the play is gonna be and based on what EJ (MLB) calls pre-snap.

It is all very interesting with respect to what happens at the C, QB, MLB positions just before the ball is snapped.
That is what I miss about Del.
He could talk a heck of alot more indepth than I ever will be able to about how a play comes in during the huddle and then how it can be changed (audible) or modified based on what the QB sees pre-snap and the C line call role along with the MLB's responsibility right down to the Safteties call.

Anyway, I actually saw the Vikes have either or (K-will/Phat Pat) in on this alignment.
As to moving them out of position, I also saw them put K-will at DE at times, and drop all DL (yes even Phat Pat) into coverage.

That type of versatility really does make it hard for young QB's and C to recognize the blitz/coverage.

Almost all teams do it by the way that shift between a base 4-3 and a 3-4 as we saw Leslie do this year.


Well I saw Pat drop into coverage as well. It were funny as hell to see him back peddle.

But I think we need a more classic DT also in the passing situations, if we don't want to create a miss match. Maybe Evans is enough.

I don't want to over simplify. But I know there goes a whole lot into the complexity of a defense, and it goes over my head to discuss it in depth.

I predicted last year that we would take a DT on day 2 of the draft. It didn't happen, but I'll risk it and predict it again this year.

Don't be suprised if a guy like Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC drops to us we won't take one in the first round.

I have been working on my mock for the last week and a half and the way I see it, there is gonna be a big rush on DE/DT/OL in the first round with alot of RB, WR, QB etc slipping into the second/third etc rounds.

cogitans
01-03-2008, 11:02 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:






I actually would like to see him stay but if he is gonna take the stance that he wants to shop around, that is ok as well.

Probably why the front office went after Fred Evans this year anyway.


As the article says, he is a bit of a tweener between the LDE and DT position which brings some extra speed to the position when Phat Pat goes out but I think Evans will fill that void nicely as well as I believe we will see a DT taken at somepoint in the draft as well.

90 Fred Evans DT 24 6-4 305 2 Texas State

97 Spencer Johnson DT 26 6-3 286 4 Auburn
93 Kevin Williams DL 27 6-5 311 5 Oklahoma State
94 Pat Williams DL 35 6-3 317 11 Texas A&M

Truth be told, I don't think we need to carry more than 4 DT's anyways as in most cases I would look to see a LDE guy come in to spell Phat Pat during obvious passing situations.

I kindof like the line of

New VET RDE
Kwill
Keneche
Ray Edwards

On passing situations.
That would be some heat my friends.


I'm not sure about that. Do you really want KU to line up at the NT. I think that's where Spencer would line up. It would be a death sin to move KWill away from the 3 technique spot that he excels at.

I agree that would be dumb in our base 4-3 defense, but I am talking about a 3rd and long situation (i.e. 3rd 15, 3rd 12, etc) were we want pass rushers on the field.

I have seen several teams this year (Vikes included) that put 4 DE's on the line at once in a situation like that.
Again, not our base defense.
I knew what you meant. I didn't know that people put 4 DEs in there.

But someone still has to line up at the NT position. Spencer has done it, as he has better pass rush abilities, even from that position. I still don't want to move KWill out of his position.

Don't think of him (the DT) as out of position as thier role/assignment actually changes in a scheme like that.
The will stunt/shift thier gaps regardless of were they start based on what they percieve the play is gonna be and based on what EJ (MLB) calls pre-snap.

It is all very interesting with respect to what happens at the C, QB, MLB positions just before the ball is snapped.
That is what I miss about Del.
He could talk a heck of alot more indepth than I ever will be able to about how a play comes in during the huddle and then how it can be changed (audible) or modified based on what the QB sees pre-snap and the C line call role along with the MLB's responsibility right down to the Safteties call.

Anyway, I actually saw the Vikes have either or (K-will/Phat Pat) in on this alignment.
As to moving them out of position, I also saw them put K-will at DE at times, and drop all DL (yes even Phat Pat) into coverage.

That type of versatility really does make it hard for young QB's and C to recognize the blitz/coverage.

Almost all teams do it by the way that shift between a base 4-3 and a 3-4 as we saw Leslie do this year.


Well I saw Pat drop into coverage as well. It were funny as hell to see him back peddle.

But I think we need a more classic DT also in the passing situations, if we don't want to create a miss match. Maybe Evans is enough.

I don't want to over simplify. But I know there goes a whole lot into the complexity of a defense, and it goes over my head to discuss it in depth.

I predicted last year that we would take a DT on day 2 of the draft. It didn't happen, but I'll risk it and predict it again this year.

Don't be suprised if a guy like Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC drops to us we won't take one in the first round.

I have been working on my mock for the last week and a half and the way I see it, there is gonna be a big rush on DE/DT/OL in the first round with alot of RB, WR, QB etc slipping into the second/third etc rounds.
Super. I wont really start looking at the draft until after the season is over. There will be more than enough time.

I'm always a bpa kind of guy when it comes to the draft. But as of now, I'd think our main needs for early would be S, DE and WR

mountainviking
01-03-2008, 12:57 PM
Spencer Johnson has been a great backup/role player for us!!
I'd love to see him and DT stay, but, if they've got a chance to start elsewhere, you got to give it to them...D'oh!

Funny, I was thinking about the Giant's 4 pass rusher, all DE Line setup yesterday...IF we added Suggs or Allen, along with Edwards, Robison, and KWill or Udeze in the middle...move them around and spread them out some, and give them a chance to run...it could be almost like a blitz without having to take one of our LBs or secondary out of their zone.
Obviously, not a base defense, but a little surprise to throw in the mix once in awhile.
I also like the 3-4 as a surprise changeup!

I noticed that draft trend a year or two back, and it seems to be gaining popular support...the true, rare physical specimens go early, regardless of records and stats.
Many of the skill position players are slipping to the middle and late rounds that in earlier decades would have gone first.
But, obviously, it's not all about physical ability, and many of the HUGE-FAST guys don't quite pan out as expected...whether it be attitude, work ethic, or intelligence that holds them back.

Marrdro
01-03-2008, 03:07 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:


Spencer Johnson has been a great backup/role player for us!!
I'd love to see him and DT stay, but, if they've got a chance to start elsewhere, you got to give it to them...D'oh!

Funny, I was thinking about the Giant's 4 pass rusher, all DE Line setup yesterday...IF we added Suggs or Allen, along with Edwards, Robison, and KWill or Udeze in the middle...move them around and spread them out some, and give them a chance to run...it could be almost like a blitz without having to take one of our LBs or secondary out of their zone.
Obviously, not a base defense, but a little surprise to throw in the mix once in awhile.
I also like the 3-4 as a surprise changeup!

I noticed that draft trend a year or two back, and it seems to be gaining popular support...the true, rare physical specimens go early, regardless of records and stats.
Many of the skill position players are slipping to the middle and late rounds that in earlier decades would have gone first.
But, obviously, it's not all about physical ability, and many of the HUGE-FAST guys don't quite pan out as expected...whether it be attitude, work ethic, or intelligence that holds them back.



Very nice my friend.

I finally got through the first round of my 2 round mock.
I have 12 Lineman (OL/DL) going in the first round.

Of course it is all based teams taking BPA at almost every pick and that only uses prospects that have declared which will change the picks a bit, however, it is alot.