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View Full Version : Looking into the "Crystal Ball"



COJOMAY
12-24-2007, 12:42 PM
I don't want to make this a "draft" thread but I would like to see your feelings on what the Vikinga have to do this off-season to make them a winning team. I'd like to see some "positive" thoughts. No "Fire Childress" or "TJ Sucks" comments please. Let's be professional here. If you were the Vikings "Triangle Of Authority" sitting in a room right now, what would you be suggesting?

I feel right now that we aren't a bad team. We've got some excellent players but some of them maybe have one good year left before they start to go downhill. I think we have to strike fast, while we've still got a good nucleus of players. I know that Chilly wants to draft for the future but I think with one or two good players we can have a really good team next year.

We all know that we need an experienced QB RIGHT NOW! I know several of you want Anderson but if yo saw his play Sunday, you would have seen another TJ. His play right before the half with two interceptions that weren't even close to the receivers would cool you on him right away. I personally think McNabb could be good for this team. He looked great against NO. I know the knock on him is injuries but it looks like he's recovered from this last bad one nicely. He's getting older but I think he's got a couple f good years left in him and I think TJ could lean a lot from him because their styles are very similar. I think one REAL TELLING thing here will be if McNabb wants to come to the Vikes. Childress brags about him being his mentor but if the Vike make and honest try for him and he doesn't come here, that tells me a lot about Childress and his supposed "good" relationship with McNabb. It tells me McNabb has no faith in him.

Another glaring need is a good offensive tackle on the right side of the offensive line. And lastly a good safety. First year draft players can make good offensive line blockers. So I'd go for one here in the draft. Good safeties are a bit harder to come by.

Let's hear your thought on this...

vikesfargo
12-24-2007, 02:18 PM
First, I would stress continuity. We need to keep the personnel we have, unless a better replacement is truly available and their addition would actually improve the team. Personnel should not be sent packing for trivial reasons. For example, Dwight Smith had a marijuana bust. By all accounts this is not deeply harmful to the team. It is the kind of thing that can be dealt with through the NFL's substance abuse program. If we can get a free safety who is notably better than Smith, however, then and only then is Smith expendable.

Second, I would primarily build through the draft. This means tending to keep the players drafted as Vikings. It means not trading draft picks unless there is a very good reason.

Third, foster a greater sense of team loyalty. In this age of free agency, the mercenary mentality can take over. Every little thing that can build loyalty from within to the Vikings is needed.

Fourth, continue the emphasis on character in personnel evaluation. Temper that with the need for instilling loyalty.

Personnel moves

In coaching, keep the ones we have. Childress is not to the level of Joe Gibbs, at least not yet. Except for a bizarre 12 men on the field call, the Vikings were running right there with Joe Gibbs in December. Childress is still not old. He has brought discipline to a young team with a checkered past. He has shown the capacity for growing into the role of head coach who can take on the big boys. Usually a Jimmy Johnson doesn't fall into your lap. You need to develop your head coaches. The next year will be critical for determining Childress's future.

Free agents to sign

Nate Burleson (WR, Sea)

Ron Dayne (RB, Hou) (a true tailback misused in the NFL as a fullback. Childress was his OC at Wisconsin in Dayne's Heisman year)

Marques Douglas (DE, SF) (good at reading pass or run, hungry)

Long shots: Jared Allen, Randy Moss, Roy Williams (the WR)

Mixed feelings: Donovan McNabb (QB, Phl) (McNabb is a better QB than TJack right now, but with our poor WRs and offensive line how much could McNabb really add? Will our pass protection and our WRs really improve that much next year to make a difference? Why risk breaking up TJack's development?)

Draft needs

Tight end
Wide receiver
Defensive end
Defensive back
Quarterback (6th or 7th round, for long-term future development/insurance purposes)
Depth at all positions

Trades:

Send a third-round pick to the Dolphins for Jason Taylor (DE). Negotiate and get the deal done.

Cuts

Don't cut any players until training camp. Troy Williamson had a big off-season last time. If he has another big off-season, working on route running, mechanics, coverage reading, and mental focus, Williamson will be a force next year. Otis Grigsby could be one of the answers at defensive end. Erasmus James still has a chance to come back and be really good. Ryan Cook is developing. Ray's suspension was probably just due to a momentary lapse into stupidity by the
22-year-old, not bad character.

Players that probably need to find new teams: Visanthe Shiancoe (can't catch, can't run routes, fumbles), Kelly Holcomb (getting too old, weak arm)

COJOMAY
12-24-2007, 02:41 PM
"vikesfargo" wrote:


First, I would stress continuity. We need to keep the personnel we have, unless a better replacement is truly available and their addition would actually improve the team. Personnel should not be sent packing for trivial reasons. For example, Dwight Smith had a marijuana bust. By all accounts this is not deeply harmful to the team. It is the kind of thing that can be dealt with through the NFL's substance abuse program. If we can get a free safety who is notably better than Smith, however, then and only then is Smith expendable.

Second, I would primarily build through the draft. This means tending to keep the players drafted as Vikings. It means not trading draft picks unless there is a very good reason.

Third, foster a greater sense of team loyalty. In this age of free agency, the mercenary mentality can take over. Every little thing that can build loyalty from within to the Vikings is needed.

Fourth, continue the emphasis on character in personnel evaluation. Temper that with the need for instilling loyalty.

Personnel moves

In coaching, keep the ones we have. Childress is not to the level of Joe Gibbs, at least not yet. Except for a bizarre 12 men on the field call, the Vikings were running right there with Joe Gibbs in December. Childress is still not old. He has brought discipline to a young team with a checkered past. He has shown the capacity for growing into the role of head coach who can take on the big boys. Usually a Jimmy Johnson doesn't fall into your lap. You need to develop your head coaches. The next year will be critical for determining Childress's future.

Free agents to sign

Nate Burleson (WR, Sea)

Ron Dayne (RB, Hou) (a true tailback misused in the NFL as a fullback. Childress was his OC at Wisconsin in Dayne's Heisman year)

Marques Douglas (DE, SF) (good at reading pass or run, hungry)

Long shots: Jared Allen, Randy Moss, Roy Williams (the WR)

Mixed feelings: Donovan McNabb (QB, Phl) (McNabb is a better QB than TJack right now, but with our poor WRs and offensive line how much could McNabb really add? Will our pass protection and our WRs really improve that much next year to make a difference? Why risk breaking up TJack's development?)

Draft needs

Tight end
Wide receiver
Defensive end
Defensive back
Quarterback (6th or 7th round, for long-term future development/insurance purposes)
Depth at all positions

Trades:

Send a third-round pick to the Dolphins for Jason Taylor (DE). Negotiate and get the deal done.

Cuts

Don't cut any players until training camp. Troy Williamson had a big off-season last time. If he has another big off-season, working on route running, mechanics, coverage reading, and mental focus, Williamson will be a force next year. Otis Grigsby could be one of the answers at defensive end. Erasmus James still has a chance to come back and be really good. Ryan Cook is developing. Ray's suspension was probably just due to a momentary lapse into stupidity by the
22-year-old, not bad character.

Players that probably need to find new teams: Visanthe Shiancoe (can't catch, can't run routes, fumbles), Kelly Holcomb (getting too old, weak arm)


Good post. I only have one question regarding the bolded portion of your post. Is the poor play of the WR due to them being poor players or a QB that doesn't see the field and throw accurately to them?

tb04512
12-24-2007, 02:47 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


"vikesfargo" wrote:


First, I would stress continuity. We need to keep the personnel we have, unless a better replacement is truly available and their addition would actually improve the team. Personnel should not be sent packing for trivial reasons. For example, Dwight Smith had a marijuana bust. By all accounts this is not deeply harmful to the team. It is the kind of thing that can be dealt with through the NFL's substance abuse program. If we can get a free safety who is notably better than Smith, however, then and only then is Smith expendable.

Second, I would primarily build through the draft. This means tending to keep the players drafted as Vikings. It means not trading draft picks unless there is a very good reason.

Third, foster a greater sense of team loyalty. In this age of free agency, the mercenary mentality can take over. Every little thing that can build loyalty from within to the Vikings is needed.

Fourth, continue the emphasis on character in personnel evaluation. Temper that with the need for instilling loyalty.

Personnel moves

In coaching, keep the ones we have. Childress is not to the level of Joe Gibbs, at least not yet. Except for a bizarre 12 men on the field call, the Vikings were running right there with Joe Gibbs in December. Childress is still not old. He has brought discipline to a young team with a checkered past. He has shown the capacity for growing into the role of head coach who can take on the big boys. Usually a Jimmy Johnson doesn't fall into your lap. You need to develop your head coaches. The next year will be critical for determining Childress's future.

Free agents to sign

Nate Burleson (WR, Sea)

Ron Dayne (RB, Hou) (a true tailback misused in the NFL as a fullback. Childress was his OC at Wisconsin in Dayne's Heisman year)

Marques Douglas (DE, SF) (good at reading pass or run, hungry)

Long shots: Jared Allen, Randy Moss, Roy Williams (the WR)

Mixed feelings: Donovan McNabb (QB, Phl) (McNabb is a better QB than TJack right now, but with our poor WRs and offensive line how much could McNabb really add? Will our pass protection and our WRs really improve that much next year to make a difference? Why risk breaking up TJack's development?)

Draft needs

Tight end
Wide receiver
Defensive end
Defensive back
Quarterback (6th or 7th round, for long-term future development/insurance purposes)
Depth at all positions

Trades:

Send a third-round pick to the Dolphins for Jason Taylor (DE). Negotiate and get the deal done.

Cuts

Don't cut any players until training camp. Troy Williamson had a big off-season last time. If he has another big off-season, working on route running, mechanics, coverage reading, and mental focus, Williamson will be a force next year. Otis Grigsby could be one of the answers at defensive end. Erasmus James still has a chance to come back and be really good. Ryan Cook is developing. Ray's suspension was probably just due to a momentary lapse into stupidity by the
22-year-old, not bad character.

Players that probably need to find new teams: Visanthe Shiancoe (can't catch, can't run routes, fumbles), Kelly Holcomb (getting too old, weak arm)


Good post. I only have one question regarding the bolded portion of your post. Is the poor play of the WR due to them being poor players or a QB that doesn't see the field and throw accurately to them?

they aare not poor but they are not great they are average at best, which makes it tough on a qb

COJOMAY
12-24-2007, 02:52 PM
"tb04512" wrote:


"COJOMAY" wrote:


"vikesfargo" wrote:


First, I would stress continuity. We need to keep the personnel we have, unless a better replacement is truly available and their addition would actually improve the team. Personnel should not be sent packing for trivial reasons. For example, Dwight Smith had a marijuana bust. By all accounts this is not deeply harmful to the team. It is the kind of thing that can be dealt with through the NFL's substance abuse program. If we can get a free safety who is notably better than Smith, however, then and only then is Smith expendable.

Second, I would primarily build through the draft. This means tending to keep the players drafted as Vikings. It means not trading draft picks unless there is a very good reason.

Third, foster a greater sense of team loyalty. In this age of free agency, the mercenary mentality can take over. Every little thing that can build loyalty from within to the Vikings is needed.

Fourth, continue the emphasis on character in personnel evaluation. Temper that with the need for instilling loyalty.

Personnel moves

In coaching, keep the ones we have. Childress is not to the level of Joe Gibbs, at least not yet. Except for a bizarre 12 men on the field call, the Vikings were running right there with Joe Gibbs in December. Childress is still not old. He has brought discipline to a young team with a checkered past. He has shown the capacity for growing into the role of head coach who can take on the big boys. Usually a Jimmy Johnson doesn't fall into your lap. You need to develop your head coaches. The next year will be critical for determining Childress's future.

Free agents to sign

Nate Burleson (WR, Sea)

Ron Dayne (RB, Hou) (a true tailback misused in the NFL as a fullback. Childress was his OC at Wisconsin in Dayne's Heisman year)

Marques Douglas (DE, SF) (good at reading pass or run, hungry)

Long shots: Jared Allen, Randy Moss, Roy Williams (the WR)

Mixed feelings: Donovan McNabb (QB, Phl) (McNabb is a better QB than TJack right now, but with our poor WRs and offensive line how much could McNabb really add? Will our pass protection and our WRs really improve that much next year to make a difference? Why risk breaking up TJack's development?)

Draft needs

Tight end
Wide receiver
Defensive end
Defensive back
Quarterback (6th or 7th round, for long-term future development/insurance purposes)
Depth at all positions

Trades:

Send a third-round pick to the Dolphins for Jason Taylor (DE). Negotiate and get the deal done.

Cuts

Don't cut any players until training camp. Troy Williamson had a big off-season last time. If he has another big off-season, working on route running, mechanics, coverage reading, and mental focus, Williamson will be a force next year. Otis Grigsby could be one of the answers at defensive end. Erasmus James still has a chance to come back and be really good. Ryan Cook is developing. Ray's suspension was probably just due to a momentary lapse into stupidity by the
22-year-old, not bad character.

Players that probably need to find new teams: Visanthe Shiancoe (can't catch, can't run routes, fumbles), Kelly Holcomb (getting too old, weak arm)


Good post. I only have one question regarding the bolded portion of your post. Is the poor play of the WR due to them being poor players or a QB that doesn't see the field and throw accurately to them?

they aare not poor but they are not great they are average at best, which makes it tough on a qb


You're getting close. They are not great. But a QB that cannot get them the ball makes them look average. I think they are somewhere between average and good.

kevoncox
12-24-2007, 02:53 PM
Who are Mcnabb's current superstar WRs???
The guy has posted Hall of Fame career numbers wih no one as a WR.
We need McNabb. Ask yourself, will defenses put the game on McNabb to beat them?
No. We need to give up a 2nd rounder for him. He will help develop Tjack and make us a super bowl contender.

Add Bob Sanders to the mix and we're looking good in the secondary.

vikesfargo
12-24-2007, 03:03 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


Good post. I only have one question regarding the bolded portion of your post. Is the poor play of the WR due to them being poor players or a QB that doesn't see the field and throw accurately to them?


Thanks.

In Philadelphia, they have a good to great quarterback and average wide receivers. They have above average pass protection. When they had TO, they had one great wide receiver and they went to the Super Bowl.

In Minnesota, we have a quarterback who is not currently playing at a very high level. TJack is in the development phase of his career. I believe that TJack has the potential to be another Steve Young. I stress potential. Other people feel differently, I guess.

In Minnesota, we have wide receivers who are also not playing at a very high level. Ferguson is showing his age. Bobby Wade gets the most out of his non-stellar athletic gifts. TWill has the physical toolkit but has not yet become a big league WR (I think he has the potential to do it). Sidney Rice is still a rookie and of course suffered an injury. Aundrae Allison is a rookie. At tight end, we lost surehanded Jermaine Wiggins. Shiancoe can't catch.

When you combine Minnesota's currently average to sub-par quarterback and receiver play, along with currently spotty pass protection, you have a passing attack that will not measure up to Philadelphia's with McNabb throwing the ball behind good pass protection to OK receivers.

ItalianStallion
12-24-2007, 03:06 PM
McNabb would be a dramatic improvement over Tarvaris right now...

purplepowered
12-24-2007, 03:07 PM
You know I agree with the part about
Mixed feelings: Donovan McNabb (QB, Phl) (McNabb is a better QB than TJack right now, but with our poor WRs and offensive line how much could McNabb really add? Will our pass protection and our WRs really improve that much next year to make a difference? Why risk breaking up TJack's development?
I like TJack and how he has come along with the little bit of use and not alot of prtection at QB ealry in the year. I dont know that McNabb
is the answer. Putting coach as offensive cooadinater i dk either. See he wasnt allowed to call the plays at Philly either. Y because i think we have found out y. Cant figureout on the run quick thinking isnt his party i guess. So it seems to me he has a great offense like he says. I agree with him when its used properly its just he cant used it on his own on the quick thinking mode. So how do we fix that. Seriously Guy/gals that seems to be the problem that I see. after half time when he had a chance to see what was going on and time to see what was going on he was able to change it up however too late. Darell Bevell still can do that job. So if we can keep coah from calling the plays totally we can be ok. But i can agree with the needs at
the WR heavily, I love Rice, I guess i didnt realize that burleson was free agent this year, is he? I would love to have himback with Rice and Burleson lining up i could see our crystal ball developing well.

vikesfargo has alot to say that i truely like...great post man. I am truely inspired it makes me want to cry....you are now hired as coach as the Vikes congrats. lol :o

CCthebest
12-24-2007, 03:14 PM
McNabb first and foremost. Like right now. They need to be thinking about him now and what it would take to get him.

See what it would take to get Fitz. Esp if we had Mcnabb. We will NOT get a good WR till TJ is benched. TJ needs a few more years to mature before he ever plays again. Hed be a good backup. If we cant get Fitz how about Nate? Or Clayton.

Dump all our WRs but Rice if we need to. I like Wade in the slot, Fergie works his ass off. But if we need to make room for good route runners and good hands WR, we will need to cut some.

Get a DE or 2 that actually know what pressure means.

And for the love of god get a CB to play alongside Winfield.

purplepowered
12-24-2007, 03:15 PM
I say we need to continue to bring Tjack along because he is still young and when he is playing good he is good he does make rookie mistakes when he is a rookie and even Peyton manning threw 6 ints this year so With 10 games this year i am still happy with this kid considering I was totally pissed on passing on Jay Cutler to get tis kid whom i knew nuthing about. Thats right I was throwing shit at the TV including my vikings bricks going wtf who is he? when we drafted him, then i go to training camp like i do every year to see our draftees and then eat my words. We drafted well last 2 years. I love our draft personel. I cant find anyone else better then them So i am saying lets give TJack more time at least another year. We need more and better WRs a better vet or 2 and maybe a 4-5 WR set a 10 time play games and that should help.

purplepowered
12-24-2007, 03:17 PM
Picture this....Fitz, Burleson and Rice with Wade in the slot.....that would help Tjack alot and help spread the offense for the Purple Jesus I love MCNabb and I dont know if he is going to be run out of town just yet either chances are but not for sure. I am betting that we dont get him and he lands in Chicago

purplepowered
12-24-2007, 03:21 PM
another thing I like that vikesfargo said was Ron Dayne. He has never been used properly just like when we traded a SB away to Dallas for Herschal and never used him properly. And CC you got something going as well, need another Vet to go with winfield for exp like trufant. Marcus Trufant i like. We do need some more hungry DEs also

CCthebest
12-24-2007, 03:23 PM
"purplepowered" wrote:


Picture this....Fitz, Burleson and Rice with Wade in the slot.....that would help Tjack alot and help spread the offense for the Purple Jesus I love MCNabb and I dont know if he is going to be run out of town just yet either chances are but not for sure. I am betting that we dont get him and he lands in Chicago


For the love of god, we could have Harrison, Moss, and Steve Smith as our WRs and TJ wouldnt know how to get them the ball. All he can do is hit the slants. He counts to 1, closes his eyes, and throws the ball on those.

purplepowered
12-24-2007, 03:25 PM
So youa re saying that the Giants should also dump Eli manning also then right? I feel you cannot judge a man by counting on someone whos coach cant change a thing onthe fly without having a 20 mintue break in between things before he can make a change then its too late and we are out of the play offs. The kid has been in the league 2 years not 10 and everyone is shitting on him like he is Ryan Leaf. Its bull shit. He hasnt had recievers, his coach sucks and because he beat the boss old team he used to root for he got an ok for the next year,
the first half was atroaches the 2nd half was way to late. and everyone wants to blame TJack. It isnt fair to him He got us 5-0 and 5-1 last 6 games. and because he lost this game because of shitty playcalling because the caoch called the runns staight up the middle of the 8-9 man fronts instead of running outside or screen pass or swing pass that workd after half time TJack after going 5-0 losed one game its all his fault...bench TJack! I dont think So. Maybe if coach would have played rice in the beginning of the season more we would have been not in this position to ahve to win last night. When Rice scored a TD we won almost every game and the kid can throw balls too. But the coach again says he is raw so we are going to be careful and bring him in carefully so he dont get too much thrown at him much like last year when we put Greenway in on a SP t preseason play and lost him for the season on special teams, our #1 pick LB on SP T I dont think that is smart coaching. So all around I am looking at the big picture and Going back to the Denny Green era
and playing not to lose then letting Dungy go and keepin green, then having tice
and then another offensive coach in Chilly and let another great Defensive mind go to Steelers..AGAIN! REPEAT! and HE is in the playoffs! WOW funny how that works every team that coaches that leave here are doing much better than we are. Why? IDK But I am stuck and sick of it. and being a fan I am going to voice it as well and going to show That hey TJack did bring us back to 8-7 so at least we are going to be 50-50 this year thanks to our QB going 5-1 the last 6

Thanks TJack I am behind you!

BBQ Platypus
12-24-2007, 03:29 PM
McNabb is FAR too injury-prone to be a reliable replacement for Jackson.
Has he ever finished a season?
No - we need to get a journeyman to back up Jackson, and give him another season to learn the game.


FYI, we would NOT win a Super Bowl with this squad even if Garcia was our quarterback.
We wouldn't even be at the top of our division - the Packers would STILL be a better team.

Schutz
12-24-2007, 03:31 PM
"BBQ" wrote:


McNabb is FAR too injury-prone to be a reliable replacement for Jackson.
Has he ever finished a season?
No - we need to get a journeyman to back up Jackson, and give him another season to learn the game.


FYI, we would NOT win a Super Bowl with this squad even if Garcia was our quarterback.
We wouldn't even be at the top of our division - the Packers would STILL be a better team.



Ummm Mcnabb is no more injury prone at this point than the man himself T-Jack.

ItalianStallion
12-24-2007, 03:37 PM
"BBQ" wrote:


McNabb is FAR too injury-prone to be a reliable replacement for Jackson.
Has he ever finished a season?
No - we need to get a journeyman to back up Jackson, and give him another season to learn the game.


FYI, we would NOT win a Super Bowl with this squad even if Garcia was our quarterback.
We wouldn't even be at the top of our division - the Packers would STILL be a better team.


That's an absolute joke.
If we even had average QB play we'd likely be 12-4.
Tarvaris cost us at least this game and the Lions game.
The Bollinger/Holcomb experiment was a disaster and cost us games (especially KC).

purplepowered
12-24-2007, 03:41 PM
"Schutz" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


McNabb is FAR too injury-prone to be a reliable replacement for Jackson.
Has he ever finished a season?
No - we need to get a journeyman to back up Jackson, and give him another season to learn the game.


FYI, we would NOT win a Super Bowl with this squad even if Garcia was our quarterback.
We wouldn't even be at the top of our division - the Packers would STILL be a better team.



Ummm Mcnabb is no more injury prone at this point than the man himself T-Jack.

Shutz how do u get that to add the pics in the boot like that I love that its soo cool seeing the next ones i didnt notice them right away and now findin myself looking back at them lol
this one is by far the best!

Schutz
12-24-2007, 03:45 PM
"purplepowered" wrote:


"Schutz" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


McNabb is FAR too injury-prone to be a reliable replacement for Jackson.
Has he ever finished a season?
No - we need to get a journeyman to back up Jackson, and give him another season to learn the game.


FYI, we would NOT win a Super Bowl with this squad even if Garcia was our quarterback.
We wouldn't even be at the top of our division - the Packers would STILL be a better team.



Ummm Mcnabb is no more injury prone at this point than the man himself T-Jack.

Shutz how do u get that to add the pics in the boot like that I love that its soo cool seeing the next ones i didnt notice them right away and now findin myself looking back at them lol
this one is by far the best!


I just made a base background with the football field first, then I added in Chuck Norris on the bottum left and my name there, and then I saved that picture as a separate file.
Then every week all I need to do is find a picture of the person I want, cut them out of there picture, resize to fit the one I already have ready.
Then I just put the cutout as a floating section and save it under a new name.
That way I always have my base picture I can quickly paste a cutout onto.


http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5946/schutztt7.jpg

That's the base picture I use.

purplepowered
12-24-2007, 03:49 PM
We will ahve to see what happens anyway! We can only see what will ahppen. We can pray that our man will answer our prayers and do what chilly did to Marcus robinson last year on Christmas eve and fire chilly. I felt so bad for marcus. he worked hard for us, at least i felt he did, and aparently chilly had a beef with him and fireed him on that eve. i guess I dont wish him to be fired I just wish he would leave the playcalling to Bevell. If he did it would work better. He jsut cant call plays on the fly. He cannot adjust quick. again He really does have great offensive scheme. Noone seen that onsides kick comin last night not even me. It was a thing of beauty. Farwell better get a huge contract this year! He has gotten his work in for sure. That boy needs to get a fatter paycheck.

that is just kick azz