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View Full Version : so does it mean our defense is better than slackers defense?



indialovesvikes
12-06-2004, 11:42 AM
when we played eagles we managed to loose 27 - 16
but the fudge packers lost 47 17

granted the slackers got a point more than us but we didnt let eagles score anywhere near 47

so in conclusion it would seem that our defense really aint all that bad.

Our offense needs to score more points dammit....i'm preaching this from now on until i see DC get his act 2gether and take charge as the leader of this team. DC always seems to loose confidence early in the game.

Can someone tally up the number of games where Vikes scored a TD first and what the outcome was (win/loss)
versus
when we didnt score the 1st TD but one was scored against us and what the final outcome was

It would be interesting to see the results.

and btw i'm rubbing the slacker loss from y'day to everyone here at work in slacker land of cheese-eating fat giddy slobs!!!!

VikingsTw
12-06-2004, 11:47 AM
Our defense is better than the packers, with WINFIELD. Without Winfield our D nosedives quite a bit. Our secondary is levels better than there's. The only thing the packers got on us is their running game and kicking game.

The packers will not servive against a team that can throw. If you look at the games they were blown out of, those teams have high power passing attacks, Titans, Colts, and Eagles. We threw all over them without MOSS but lost. The packers cannot hange with teams that have outstanding passing attacks. Spread them out and wing it, dont quit either. The eagles did exactly what i wanted them to do. They used there TE's WR's Backs, all of them.

ItalianStallion
12-06-2004, 11:54 AM
Well look how well we played the bears, I don't think we are qualified to say ew are better than anyone on defense (except maybe the saints, :P)

purplehorn
12-06-2004, 12:11 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:

Well look how well we played the bears, I don't think we are qualified to say ew are better than anyone on defense (except maybe the saints, :P)

I disagree here our D played good for three weeks. Are the great no
do the suck hell no. We just need to tighten up a bit and beat the
pack the 24th and all will be right in the world momentum going
into the super bowl :)

cheesefree
12-06-2004, 12:34 PM
They both suck in their own unique ways. The Packers have sucked in more of a spectacular fashion (Eagles, Colts, Titans) while the Vikings have more of a consistant week-to-week suckiness. In the end they are only separated by 8 points in points allowed.

snowinapril
12-06-2004, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't start blowing no horns just yet about who is better. We both suck like cheesfree said.

IT AS ONLY ONE GAME.

Also, that was early on in the season. Every team involved, Chicago, Vikes, Eagles, and Pack are different teams than they were in the 2nd week of the season. Injuries shape all NFL teams and they have to evolve over the season to keep up with injuries.

Also, every team matches up different with other teams. IT IS TOO HARD TO Answer Your Question in a simple matter of fact way. Too many Variables!!!

VikingsTw
12-06-2004, 01:00 PM
Well i still believe our defense is better, our D Line is better and our secondary is better. Player for player i would take the vikes defense. But your right snow injuries shape just about anything. Not having Winfield is really gonna take that shape in a different direction.

daredevil25
12-06-2004, 01:10 PM
"cheesefree" wrote:

They both suck in their own unique ways. The Packers have sucked in more of a spectacular fashion (Eagles, Colts, Titans) while the Vikings have more of a consistant week-to-week suckiness. In the end they are only separated by 8 points in points allowed.Sounds like us last season! Except we sucked big the start of the season and sucked a little less at the end of the season. If our D can't stop anyone from scoring like yesterday we'll be sucky again :cheers:

JWalkRulz84
12-06-2004, 01:33 PM
I say both defenses are pretty even in their suckiness. Its simple, they both suck. The pack cant stop the pass...the vikes cant stop the run or the pass on certain weeks. if these 2 teams want a chance at a super bowl...they are probably going to have to score 38 points a game in the playoffs to make it...
As for player for player, i havent really thought about that so im gonna compare players here and we'll see the result...

LDE - Kenny Mixon vs. Aaron Kampman
I take Mixon
NT - Grady Jackson vs. Spencer Johnson
Grady any day
DT - Cledtius Hunt vs. Kevin Williams
Kevin has so much potential
RDE - Kenechi Udeze vs. KGB
I say this one is pretty even
SLB- Keith Newman vs. Hannibal Navies
I say this one is even as well. Both have shown flashes, but not there yet.
MLB - Nick Barnett vs. EJ Henderson
No question here. Barnett is much better thatn Henderson
WLB - Na'il Diggs vs. Chris Claiborne
Diggs gets the edge. He has been playing like a mad man this year.
LCB - Ahmad Carroll vs. Antoine Winfield
Winfield might be the best player listed of all these players. He is head and shoulders above Carroll and should be a player Carroll should model his game after.
RCB - Brian Williams vs. Al Harris
Ill take Al harris over Williams any day. Harris has improved his game so much this year and if it wasnt for all rest of the shitty defensive backfield, this guy would look like gold.
FS - Darren Sharper vs. Brian Russell
Sharper is all-pro and Russell is having a terrible season. Russell overachieved last season and Sharper has been playing hurt for most of the year, but is still very affective.
SS - Corey Chavous vs. Mark Roman
Ill take Chavous. No doubt in this one. Roman isn't anything close to what I thought me might be like this year. He is definitely a back up player.

That puts the Pack at a slim 5-4 advantage at positions. Although the possibility lies that both Newman and Udeze can be better than KGB and Navies. Another one that is close is Williams and Harris. I think that it is way too close to say one defense is better than the other.

Green Bay Defense & Minnesota Defense = Same Suckiness

indialovesvikes
12-06-2004, 01:35 PM
"vikingstw" wrote:



The packers will not servive against a team that can throw. If you look at the games they were blown out of, those teams have high power passing attacks, Titans, Colts, and Eagles. We threw all over them without MOSS but lost. The packers cannot hange with teams that have outstanding passing attacks. Spread them out and wing it, dont quit either. The eagles did exactly what i wanted them to do. They used there TE's WR's Backs, all of them.

I see your point but let me also question this. If we threw all over these teams how come we lost. Are you gonna blame that on our defense?

I would think not because throwing is another thing and completions is another.
The point i'm trying to make (without starting flames) is that i strongly feel our QB and our offense is letting us down more than our defense. On countless occassions i have watched the defense stop the opponents at crucial points of the game and get the ball back just to watch the offense waste the opportunity. Someone should come up with a count on that one too.
Granted it would be nice if our defense could get more INT but their main focus is to stop the opponents drive to at least a point where the opponent can only get a FG

With our star QB and our above average WRs (excluding Moss) our offense should fare better. Another point i note is that DC cant seem to find the chemistry with other WRs. He tends to throw higher or farther (almost making it seem like passes that are meant for RM, since he is taller and faster than the rest of our WRs) when RM is is not the intended receiver.

Maybe i'm just babbling, afterall i'm not nearly an expert as you folks that were born playing this wonderful game. I'm just relaying my observations.

Do tell me if I am incorrect (politely as much as possible). Thx

tarkenton10
12-06-2004, 01:38 PM
NO! It means we both can't win a big game with the division on the line!!!!!!

ItalianStallion
12-06-2004, 01:45 PM
JWalk I shockingly agree with pretty much all of your analysis.

Vikes
12-06-2004, 01:51 PM
"indialovesvikes" wrote:

when we played eagles we managed to loose 27 - 16
but the fudge packers lost 47 17

granted the slackers got a point more than us but we didnt let eagles score anywhere near 47

so in conclusion it would seem that our defense really aint all that bad.

Our offense needs to score more points dammit....i'm preaching this from now on until i see DC get his act 2gether and take charge as the leader of this team. DC always seems to loose confidence early in the game.

Can someone tally up the number of games where Vikes scored a TD first and what the outcome was (win/loss)
versus
when we didnt score the 1st TD but one was scored against us and what the final outcome was

It would be interesting to see the results.

and btw i'm rubbing the slacker loss from y'day to everyone here at work in slacker land of cheese-eating fat giddy slobs!!!!

The D was on the field way to long yesterday. The Offense was not moving the ball in the third and fourth qtr. The game was lost because of turnovers. end of story. I like Pep he had a bad game. A D cannot save you when you are turning over the ball.

SKOL
12-06-2004, 01:51 PM
JWalk = Insightful and Unbiased. :salute:

Never thought I'd say it. :lol:

whackthepack
12-06-2004, 03:15 PM
Here is a quote from Grady Jackson GB D lineman.

"The best team (in the NFC) is us," argued nose tackle Grady Jackson, "but we didn't play like the best team today. We just have to come back and regroup.

"In my opinion, we're going to see them again in January, and it's going to be a different outcome."



Does he have no brain, to get beat like a drum and then come out and say we are the best team in the NFC! And Packer fans wonder why their team is hated.

cajunvike
12-06-2004, 03:28 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

I say both defenses are pretty even in their suckiness. Its simple, they both suck. The pack cant stop the pass...the vikes cant stop the run or the pass on certain weeks. if these 2 teams want a chance at a super bowl...they are probably going to have to score 38 points a game in the playoffs to make it...
As for player for player, i havent really thought about that so im gonna compare players here and we'll see the result...

LDE - Kenny Mixon vs. Aaron Kampman
I take Mixon
NT - Grady Jackson vs. Spencer Johnson
Grady any day
DT - Cledtius Hunt vs. Kevin Williams
Kevin has so much potential
RDE - Kenechi Udeze vs. KGB
I say this one is pretty even
SLB- Keith Newman vs. Hannibal Navies
I say this one is even as well. Both have shown flashes, but not there yet.
MLB - Nick Barnett vs. EJ Henderson
No question here. Barnett is much better thatn Henderson
WLB - Na'il Diggs vs. Chris Claiborne
Diggs gets the edge. He has been playing like a mad man this year.
LCB - Ahmad Carroll vs. Antoine Winfield
Winfield might be the best player listed of all these players. He is head and shoulders above Carroll and should be a player Carroll should model his game after.
RCB - Brian Williams vs. Al Harris
Ill take Al harris over Williams any day. Harris has improved his game so much this year and if it wasnt for all rest of the shitty defensive backfield, this guy would look like gold.
FS - Darren Sharper vs. Brian Russell
Sharper is all-pro and Russell is having a terrible season. Russell overachieved last season and Sharper has been playing hurt for most of the year, but is still very affective.
SS - Corey Chavous vs. Mark Roman
Ill take Chavous. No doubt in this one. Roman isn't anything close to what I thought me might be like this year. He is definitely a back up player.

That puts the Pack at a slim 5-4 advantage at positions. Although the possibility lies that both Newman and Udeze can be better than KGB and Navies. Another one that is close is Williams and Harris. I think that it is way too close to say one defense is better than the other.

Green Bay Defense & Minnesota Defense = Same Suckiness

Of course, if you match up Winfield vs. Harris and Carroll vs. Williams, then I will take both Vikings (giving us the 5-4 advantage)...never knew that there was still a LCB - RCB distinction in game situations (usually the best CB goes to whatever side the best WR is lining up on). But you are right...the defenses are too close to call. However, for the future, I would probably have to say that the Vikings potential looks much better across the board (except maybe the secondary...we may have to take a page from the Packers draft brain trust and draft a CB or two...LOL).

snowinapril
12-06-2004, 03:31 PM
You can't measure individual against individual, this is not WRASSLING. This is a team sport.

It is a team effort. I see where you were going but ultimately it comes down to the TEAMS effort.

GB and MN did not have very good team efforts this last weekend.

snowinapril
12-06-2004, 03:34 PM
"whackthepack" wrote:

Here is a quote from Grady Jackson GB D lineman.

"The best team (in the NFC) is us," argued nose tackle Grady Jackson, "but we didn't play like the best team today. We just have to come back and regroup.

"In my opinion, we're going to see them again in January, and it's going to be a different outcome."



Does he have no brain, to get beat like a drum and then come out and say we are the best team in the NFC! And Packer fans wonder why their team is hated.

Denial is common in a tramatic situation.

JWalkRulz84
12-06-2004, 03:40 PM
i think the packers have a lot of potential in their secondary as well as in their linebacking corps. the will upgrade at SS and probably get someone in line of replace sharper. harris will be around for quite some time now and carroll is really improving. i believe roman was a temporary fixture for the season and sharper has 3 or 4 years left in him.

linebackers, we are set with diggs and barnett. i absolutely hate navies. i swear he sucks so bad. i could take any person out of the stands and they could guard a tight end better than him. he is no where to be found on any play and plain and simple, he just sucks. im sure that will be addressed as well.

d line- we will hopefully get grady re-signed. him and hunt are solid in the middle. kampman is servicable and if we can draft a top notch d-end. this will be a much improved defensive unit.

snowinapril
12-06-2004, 03:46 PM
Where would we be if it was easier to keep players around, you know before PARITY and HUGE MONEY FA?

Orlando(?), Griffith(browns), Washington(Jax?), where are you now?

At times I am sure we had some bad words for Orlando and definitely Washington. They sure look better now than they ever did.

I am not sure if Orlando is in the NFL anymore????

daredevil25
12-06-2004, 05:55 PM
He actually said that?! Wow.....all I can get out is wow.

cajunvike
12-06-2004, 06:01 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:

Where would we be if it was easier to keep players around, you know before PARITY and HUGE MONEY FA?

Orlando(?), Griffith(browns), Washington(Jax?), where are you now?

At times I am sure we had some bad words for Orlando and definitely Washington. They sure look better now than they ever did.

I am not sure if Orlando is in the NFL anymore????

As far as I know, he retired and is living back in Crowley, LA. (He went to Louisiana-Lafayette [same as Tillman], my alma mater, so I tried to follow where he would end up and got nothing, so I think that my first assumption is correct.)

ItalianStallion
12-06-2004, 06:05 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

i think the packers have a lot of potential in their secondary as well as in their linebacking corps. the will upgrade at SS and probably get someone in line of replace sharper. harris will be around for quite some time now and carroll is really improving. i believe roman was a temporary fixture for the season and sharper has 3 or 4 years left in him.

linebackers, we are set with diggs and barnett. i absolutely hate navies. i swear he sucks so bad. i could take any person out of the stands and they could guard a tight end better than him. he is no where to be found on any play and plain and simple, he just sucks. im sure that will be addressed as well.

d line- we will hopefully get grady re-signed. him and hunt are solid in the middle. kampman is servicable and if we can draft a top notch d-end. this will be a much improved defensive unit.

What about KGB, he is one of your best defensive players, though he does disappear against the run he plays the pass very well.

Steamed Turtle
12-06-2004, 06:55 PM
heh, got a point there. Although grady does too.