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hawaiianvike21
12-03-2007, 02:46 AM
i know they have done pretty good as of recently but there were too many times the past few games where they would give up huge chunks of yardage through the air, esp on third downs where the defense needed to get off the field. when we face a good passing team, i could honestly see us giving up many huge plays and unable to get off the field.

this has especially been the problem for us the whole year, most notably when facing the packers. think when can get more aggressive and stop playing too many cover 2 zones that get picked apart whether or not we blitz?

digital420
12-03-2007, 05:47 AM
"hawaiianvike21" wrote:


i know they have done pretty good as of recently but there were too many times the past few games where they would give up huge chunks of yardage through the air, esp on third downs where the defense needed to get off the field. when we face a good passing team, i could honestly see us giving up many huge plays and unable to get off the field.


Well, NYG, and the Kittens were supposed to be good passing teams.. the Kittens went several times with No backfield.. None!!
they are a pass first team.. we knew that and played against it. the funny part is..
any team we face.. once they have given up on the run or only have 10 attempts in a 50attempt game.. you know we're gonna get yards racked up. It's the points that's the final determination on how we do as a passing situation D.


"hawaiianvike21" wrote:


this has especially been the problem for us the whole year, most notably when facing the packers. think when can get more aggressive and stop playing too many cover 2 zones that get picked apart whether or not we blitz?


it all starts up frong.. if you can get preassure without blitzing then your doing great. but by blitzing your opening those short slant, pocket routes. The blitz packages used are being disguised all the time. and I think it's starting to work. WE're getting more consistant preasure, and the cb's and safties are limiting those explosive plays dramaticly.

we're still gonna get more pass's attempted on us then anyone else. but.. that's what happens when you do the fundementals of football well, stop the run, and run the ball!!!

Great work D on an overall solid performance!!

DiGiTaL

PurpleTide
12-03-2007, 06:50 AM
The stats are skewed, we are thrown against more than any other team, so naturally there will be more completions and yards. I like the way we've been disguising our defenses lately, and the pressure has been turned up a couple degrees. We are coming together nicely for the stretch run to the playoffs.

BleedinPandG
12-03-2007, 07:37 AM
We are 10th in the league in points allowed per game... stats like Yards per game really don't mean squat...

The DLine has shown the ability to make a QB uncomfortable.
They still aren't getting the sacks, but they are definitely forcing the issue.
We've been without our best starting CB for the past 3 weeks.
While I'm not thrilled with our Pass D, they are playing respectable football.


The GB game was simply a bad scheme.
We tried something different and Favre beat it.
He's a future Hall of Famer, he's going to do things like that occasionally.

PurplePeopleEaters
12-03-2007, 08:00 AM
The key to beating us is short quick passes with lots of YAC. The lions tried that early in the game and succeeded. Eventually it comes to the point where the QB has to take a 5 step drop on a 3rd and long in order to get the ball into the endzone after we stop a few of their short passes. That's when we really rattle QB's like Kitna and Manning. The giants gameplan was horrible with no WCO style routes and tons of 5 step drops for Manning.

BleedinPandG
12-03-2007, 08:04 AM
Actually we started dropping linemen back in coverage to stop those short slants.
Our linebackers have really stepped up in pass defense in those types of situations.
If we can continue to get pressure without blitzes those slants won't be effective.
Slants over the middle are best when the LBs are blitzing and the WR can slip behind them and have a ton of open room.

If you look at the GB games... in the first game Favre killed us with the quick slants.
In the 2nd game we dropped linemen to stop those slants and we were very effective in doing that.
Unfortunately, we got absolutely no pressure on Favre so he adjusted.
Where as in the first game he was throwing all 4 - 6 yard passes over the middle, in the 2nd game he was throwing 12 - 18 yard passes because he had a lot of time.

Frazier is mixing things up nicely.
We are not playing a lot of different formations, a lot of variety.
I think we are beginning to see a "mature" defensive football team that can confuse opposing offenses.
I'm curious to see how good they can be when Winfield comes back.

Marrdro
12-03-2007, 08:16 AM
What scares me about our D is that fact that we seem to have a problem with 3rd and long.


Sure, as BleedinPanG put out, we don't allow alot of points, they do stay on the field alot.
Given time, a Vet QB and a good OL would/will eventually wear them down resulting in a loss.

We need to fix (although it looked better against the Lions) our DL and thier pass pressure if we are to have any hope in the playoffs (if we make it of course) as the QB's and Line play at that level is no were near the level of say the Giants, Lions and Chargers.
::)

Proud2BPurple
12-03-2007, 09:23 AM
I think the pass defence is improving steadily, the last few games they have let the opposition have good early drives, usually resulting in points but after that they seem to steady up. Teams have moved downfield but our red zone defence of late has been admirable with some big plays, sacks and ints.
Stil i think a good DB wud be a good off season mood, Asante Samuel form the Pats maybe a long shot but a free agent he is and doesnt look keen on more time at New England!
by no means have i given up on them though and with the young improving offense - we can outscore most teams in this league! Bring on the play offs!

patistheman
12-03-2007, 10:17 AM
I am a little worried.
We showed yesterday we can't stop the top WRs in the NFL.
Roy Williams only played the first half and had 5 receptions for 85 yards.
He is the strength of the Lions offense.
While I do think we have improved guys like Roy Williams, Terrel Owens, Plaxico Burres(he is not healthy right now and had 7 catches for 93 yards and a TD against us), and the tandem of Greg Jennings and Donald Driver still scare me a little bit.
When we show we can stop them I will feel more comfortable.

NodakPaul
12-03-2007, 10:26 AM
I am much less worried now than I was four weeks ago.
We are getting good pressure on the QB and making the stops when we need to.
FYI, Detroit only scored one TD yesterday, remember.
And they are supposed to have a pretty dangerous passing attack...

As far as Roy having a good first half before he went down... 43 of those 85 yards came off from one play.
Big plays happen.
Damn near every game.
Keeping them to a minimum and not letting it destroy your momentum is the hallmark of a good team.
After the bomb to Roy set up the Lions sole TD, we effectively put the nail in the coffin with Andre Allison's 103 yard kickoff return (longest play in team history BTW).

CCthebest
12-03-2007, 10:36 AM
Our entire secondary is really bad imo. Im not sure if theres a way to look up how often a CB gets burned, but if there is, Griffin and Mccauly would be on top of the list. They look lost out there half the time, no idea where the ball is. And our safties do not give them enough support. They are too worried about getting the int, which is ok if they actually pick a few off.

On 3rd and long, the CBs play almost 15 yards off sometimes. And its not working. Why cant they bump and run a few times like other teams? Are they that terrible at coverage? If we dont get a good pass rush, the CBs are toast. Neither can cover anyone. And as good as our LBs are, they aernt real good in coverage either, but they are improving. EJ is such a beast this year, hes actually getting much better in coverage. Greenway isnt.

With the improved play of TJ the past few games, I think our focus next year should be on a really good possesion (NOT a speed guy) WR and a good cover CB. And maybe a good safty. I dont really want rookies either, I want us to grab a few UFA or even FA if we can.

Purple Floyd
12-03-2007, 10:46 AM
The defense is improving. Part of it comes from the fact that we are getting pressure on the QB and part of it looks like it is coming from better play from the secondary. They are still not where they need to be but it is no longer a situation where any team can pass on us any time they want.


One thing about the yardage.

While it may not always lead to points, that yardage has lead to a filed position advantage for our opponents in the losses we have had several times and that as much as turnovers can determine the outcome of a game.

If we start out deep in our territory while to opponents have good starting position due to our inability to stop the pass it certainly puts our offense, defense and special teams at a disadvantage.

NodakPaul
12-03-2007, 10:50 AM
"CCthebest" wrote:


Our entire secondary is really bad imo. Im not sure if theres a way to look up how often a CB gets burned, but if there is, Griffin and Mccauly would be on top of the list. They look lost out there half the time, no idea where the ball is. And our safties do not give them enough support. They are too worried about getting the int, which is ok if they actually pick a few off.

On 3rd and long, the CBs play almost 15 yards off sometimes. And its not working. Why cant they bump and run a few times like other teams? Are they that terrible at coverage? If we dont get a good pass rush, the CBs are toast. Neither can cover anyone. And as good as our LBs are, they aernt real good in coverage either, but they are improving. EJ is such a beast this year, hes actually getting much better in coverage. Greenway isnt.

With the improved play of TJ the past few games, I think our focus next year should be on a really good possesion (NOT a speed guy) WR and a good cover CB. And maybe a good safty. I dont really want rookies either, I want us to grab a few UFA or even FA if we can.


Well the first thing you would need to do is watch the games.
In case you haven't noticed, our pass defense has done a pretty damn good job in 4 out of the past 5 games.
We were playing off the WRs yesterday - after we were already up by 20+ points.
They do bump and run a lot more than last year.


Greenway and the rest of our LBs are playing well.
I am not sure what your issue is with him.

Overall, our passing D has been steadily improving ever since the GB game.
I think Frazier has made some key adjustments to the scheme, and it is paying off.

V-Unit
12-03-2007, 11:20 AM
Getting Winfield back will certainly help.

I wouldn't worry about the huge amounts of passing yardage we give up. All offenses do rack up the yards, but only the great offenses we have faced have been able to convert that into points. If our defense holds the other team to under 20 points, I'm happy. We have let up mor than 215 yards passing (league average) 9 times this year, but let up more than 22 points (league average) only 5 times. 3 of those were 23 against PHI, 23 against GB, and 24 against Dallas.

I expect good passing teams like the Lions, Packers, and Cowboys to light it up against us. They do that to everybody. Only great passing offenses like the Cowboys, Packers, Steelers, Colts, and Patriots will be able to consistently turn that into points.

So, while our passing game isn't the best, the only game I was disappointed by was Chicago.

Mr Anderson
12-03-2007, 11:59 AM
"V" wrote:


Getting Winfield back will certainly help.

I wouldn't worry about the huge amounts of passing yardage we give up. All offenses do rack up the yards, but only the great offenses we have faced have been able to convert that into points. If our defense holds the other team to under 20 points, I'm happy. We have let up mor than 215 yards passing (league average) 9 times this year, but let up more than 22 points (league average) only 5 times. 3 of those were 23 against PHI, 23 against GB, and 24 against Dallas.

I expect good passing teams like the Lions, Packers, and Cowboys to light it up against us. They do that to everybody. Only great passing offenses like the Cowboys, Packers, Steelers, Colts, and Patriots will be able to consistently turn that into points.

So, while our passing game isn't the best, the only game I was disappointed by was Chicago.


Steelers are 24th in the league in pass offense.

davike
12-03-2007, 12:01 PM
After the Giants game, Dwight Smith was on NFL network and I love the way he broke it down. He pretty much stated that you couldn't judge their pass D on that stat alone. They are ranked last in pass yardage given up because they are passed on more then any other team, but they are actually aren't rated that bad when it comes to yard per a pass.

I agree in the fact that it will help to have Winfield back. And they have done really well containing the pass on third downs the past few games. Also I must bring up the fact that we still don't allow many points given up. We bend but we don't break.

NodakPaul
12-03-2007, 12:12 PM
"davike" wrote:


After the Giants game, Dwight Smith was on NFL network and I love the way he broke it down. He pretty much stated that you couldn't judge their pass D on that stat alone. They are ranked last in pass yardage given up because they are passed on more then any other team, but they are actually aren't rated that bad when it comes to yard per a pass.

I agree in the fact that it will help to have Winfield back. And they have done really well containing the pass on third downs the past few games. Also I must bring up the fact that we still don't allow many points given up. We bend but we don't break.


Correct.
Minnesota is 11th in the league in yards per pass.
We have the most yards per game because teams pass against us more than any other team in the league - because they can't run.

Most passing attempts per game (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=74746283BBDC35F98A4795DFDBA2DE90?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_ATTEMPTS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1)
11th in average yards per pass (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=61E57DE7E4EA4EDA1D3EEE70AD52FA64?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS&d-447263-n=1)

Purple D
12-03-2007, 12:15 PM
The only defensive Stat we should ever worry about is Points given up a game?
All the rest are worthless to judge your team by.
IMO

Marrdro
12-03-2007, 12:19 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"davike" wrote:


After the Giants game, Dwight Smith was on NFL network and I love the way he broke it down. He pretty much stated that you couldn't judge their pass D on that stat alone. They are ranked last in pass yardage given up because they are passed on more then any other team, but they are actually aren't rated that bad when it comes to yard per a pass.

I agree in the fact that it will help to have Winfield back. And they have done really well containing the pass on third downs the past few games. Also I must bring up the fact that we still don't allow many points given up. We bend but we don't break.

There are a few that hurt though:

a.
T3rd, 41, for plays longer than 20 yards.
b.
4th with the longest pass against.
c.
Second to the worst with pass completions.

Look I like the points thing, however, our defense needs to get off the field more.
To do that we need to make sure that our DL gets a more consistent pass rush (get there a bit sooner) and that our secondary can cover just a bit longer.

If we can't do that, and by some small miracle we do make the playoffs, the better teams will keep nickel and diming us with those 20+ passes, keeping the D on the field and wearing them out and eventually beating the crap out of us ala GB.
Correct.
Minnesota is 11th in the league in yards per pass.
We have the most yards per game because teams pass against us more than any other team in the league - because they can't run.

Most passing attempts per game (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=74746283BBDC35F98A4795DFDBA2DE90?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_ATTEMPTS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1)
11th in average yards per pass (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=61E57DE7E4EA4EDA1D3EEE70AD52FA64?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS&d-447263-n=1)

FreakinVikingsBaby
12-03-2007, 12:21 PM
If you asked this a few weeks ago I would've said duh, everyone should be. But within the last few weeks we've shown we can get consistent pressure on the qb. I don't know if it's the schemes or better play, but it's working. McCauley has shown to me that he shouldn't be starting. I don't think he's horrible, but not a starter yet. I can't wait for winfield to come back. BTW, when is he supposed to return? One thing I have noticed about our corners, and I don't know if it's always been like this and I just noticed or something else, but they tackle very well. When they are lined up man on man, very rarley are the recievers getting good yac.

Purple D
12-03-2007, 12:27 PM
"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


If you asked this a few weeks ago I would've said duh, everyone should be. But within the last few weeks we've shown we can get consistent pressure on the qb. I don't know if it's the schemes or better play, but it's working. McCauley has shown to me that he shouldn't be starting. I don't think he's horrible, but not a starter yet. I can't wait for winfield to come back. BTW, when is he supposed to return? One thing I have noticed about our corners, and I don't know if it's always been like this and I just noticed or something else, but they tackle very well. When they are lined up man on man, very rarley are the recievers getting good yac.



McCauley is doing well for a Rookie.
One thing I like about our young CB's is that they are taller than the average CB.
I may be wrong about that though.
I am just thinking that Griffin and McCauley are both 6'0 or taller.
I think Griffin is 6'0 and McCauley is 6'1 ,
I think that helps when you are going against taller Receivers.

Those 5'10 and 5'9 CB's find it harder to contend with jump balls.

bleedpurple
12-03-2007, 12:34 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"davike" wrote:


After the Giants game, Dwight Smith was on NFL network and I love the way he broke it down. He pretty much stated that you couldn't judge their pass D on that stat alone. They are ranked last in pass yardage given up because they are passed on more then any other team, but they are actually aren't rated that bad when it comes to yard per a pass.

I agree in the fact that it will help to have Winfield back. And they have done really well containing the pass on third downs the past few games. Also I must bring up the fact that we still don't allow many points given up. We bend but we don't break.

There are a few that hurt though:

a.
T3rd, 41, for plays longer than 20 yards.
b.
4th with the longest pass against.
c.
Second to the worst with pass completions.

Look I like the points thing, however, our defense needs to get off the field more.
To do that we need to make sure that our DL gets a more consistent pass rush (get there a bit sooner) and that our secondary can cover just a bit longer.

If we can't do that, and by some small miracle we do make the playoffs, the better teams will keep nickel and diming us with those 20+ passes, keeping the D on the field and wearing them out and eventually beating the crap out of us ala GB.
Correct.
Minnesota is 11th in the league in yards per pass.
We have the most yards per game because teams pass against us more than any other team in the league - because they can't run.

Most passing attempts per game (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=74746283BBDC35F98A4795DFDBA2DE90?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_ATTEMPTS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1)
11th in average yards per pass (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=61E57DE7E4EA4EDA1D3EEE70AD52FA64?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS&d-447263-n=1)




Marrdro i agree with you imphatically...

3rd and long as been a weakness of ours for the past few years....!!!

yes, the defense has been getting better against the pass, mostly bc of us blitzing a lot more and playing the bump and run coverage... with that said, however, the fact that we play soo far off of the men especially, when have long yardage situations is ridiculous...

when Detroit went to that multiple receiver set, they're were a few receivers open that Kitna just didn't see... with the way they ran picks and ran a receiver underneath other guys into the flat.. i honestly think a better QB would have found those guys..

Secondly, Kitna looked completely lost, not because we had amazing pressure on him, but i think it had a lot to do with the fact, that Roy Williams got hurt early in the game...

So while our Defense has been getting better against the pass, i think it would behoov us, to play more man coverage IMO and disguise our blitz's like we've been doing.. bc, the first quarter, even when we blitzed Kitna had all day to throw the ball...and with that horrible pass blocking team, we should have had alot more sacks than we did...

For some odd reason, when we play the cover-2 or go to some type of zone... our secondary is horrible... that's why i've been saying we should be playing more man under coverage.. atleast that way, you don't have wide open receivers sitting in the zone and picking up big chunks of yardage.. man under would provide the quarter back to throw into a tighter window and make him choose more so who he's gonna throw to instead of throwing the ball right into the arms of an open man runing between the LB, CB and safety..

i think with the return of winfield it will help, if we keep playing the same type of coverages, bc when he gets back and we resort to the "old way" when he was in we're gonna be in trouble... you notice our secondary has played better with winfield out!!! which is a testiment of the scheming..

either way, we better find a way to get pressure with the front 4 or we'll be in for some long days if/when we reach the playoffs... better teams, QB's and coaching...

V-Unit
12-03-2007, 12:38 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Getting Winfield back will certainly help.

I wouldn't worry about the huge amounts of passing yardage we give up. All offenses do rack up the yards, but only the great offenses we have faced have been able to convert that into points. If our defense holds the other team to under 20 points, I'm happy. We have let up mor than 215 yards passing (league average) 9 times this year, but let up more than 22 points (league average) only 5 times. 3 of those were 23 against PHI, 23 against GB, and 24 against Dallas.

I expect good passing teams like the Lions, Packers, and Cowboys to light it up against us. They do that to everybody. Only great passing offenses like the Cowboys, Packers, Steelers, Colts, and Patriots will be able to consistently turn that into points.

So, while our passing game isn't the best, the only game I was disappointed by was Chicago.


Steelers are 24th in the league in pass offense.


I know, but I'm just basing it off things other than stats. First off all, the Steelers are more committed to the run than they sometimes need to be. When they do pass they are pretty effective. I don't think Roethlisberger, Ward, Holmes, and Washington against our secondary is a favorable matchup for us. Not to mention Tomlin against his old defensive unit. They would cause us all sorts of problems.

FreakinVikingsBaby
12-03-2007, 12:41 PM
"Purple" wrote:


"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


If you asked this a few weeks ago I would've said duh, everyone should be. But within the last few weeks we've shown we can get consistent pressure on the qb. I don't know if it's the schemes or better play, but it's working. McCauley has shown to me that he shouldn't be starting. I don't think he's horrible, but not a starter yet. I can't wait for winfield to come back. BTW, when is he supposed to return? One thing I have noticed about our corners, and I don't know if it's always been like this and I just noticed or something else, but they tackle very well. When they are lined up man on man, very rarley are the recievers getting good yac.



McCauley is doing well for a Rookie.

One thing I like about our young CB's is that they are taller than the average CB.

I may be wrong about that though.
I am just thinking that Griffin and McCauley are both 6'0 or taller.
I think Griffin is 6'0 and McCauley is 6'1 ,

I think that helps when you are going against taller Receivers.


Those 5'10 and 5'9 CB's find it harder to contend with jump balls.


Agreed he's doing good for a rookie, just not good enough to start. We better have winfield back for the playoffs.

bleedpurple
12-03-2007, 12:46 PM
"V" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Getting Winfield back will certainly help.

I wouldn't worry about the huge amounts of passing yardage we give up. All offenses do rack up the yards, but only the great offenses we have faced have been able to convert that into points. If our defense holds the other team to under 20 points, I'm happy. We have let up mor than 215 yards passing (league average) 9 times this year, but let up more than 22 points (league average) only 5 times. 3 of those were 23 against PHI, 23 against GB, and 24 against Dallas.

I expect good passing teams like the Lions, Packers, and Cowboys to light it up against us. They do that to everybody. Only great passing offenses like the Cowboys, Packers, Steelers, Colts, and Patriots will be able to consistently turn that into points.

So, while our passing game isn't the best, the only game I was disappointed by was Chicago.


Steelers are 24th in the league in pass offense.


I know, but I'm just basing it off things other than stats. First off all, the Steelers are more committed to the run than they sometimes need to be. When they do pass they are pretty effective. I don't think Roethlisberger, Ward, Holmes, and Washington against our secondary is a favorable matchup for us. Not to mention Tomlin against his old defensive unit. They would cause us all sorts of problems.


i think we'd beat pittsburgh.. home or away,.. just like others, for some reason we always play them tough..

jessejames09
12-03-2007, 12:53 PM
Griffin is emerging as a stud. Has all the physical tools needed, if he can cut out his momentary lapses
in judgment he could be a great corner. Ced had troubles making tackles early on this season and teams were picking on him, but he really stepped up his game and now he's hitting like a safety (not ours lol)

McCauley is the same, good young corner, needs time, but really he's all there.

Gorden has even shown flashes.



Our problems are at Safety, ours are way too old. Although It would be cool (in my eyes) to have AW playing SS next year with Doss at FS. & then we wouldn't need to overpay a FA.

------------------Doss-------------Winfield--------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
McCauley------------------------------------------Griffin


That little random idiot theory would be a void if we could get our mitts on Kenny Phillips though.

bleedpurple
12-03-2007, 12:57 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


Griffin is emerging as a stud. Has all the physical tools needed, if he can cut out his momentary lapses
in judgment he could be a great corner. Ced had troubles making tackles early on this season and teams were picking on him, but he really stepped up his game and now he's hitting like a safety (not ours lol)

McCauley is the same, good young corner, needs time, but really he's all there.

Gorden has even shown flashes.



Our problems are at Safety, ours are way too old. Although It would be cool (in my eyes) to have AW playing SS next year with Doss at FS. & then we wouldn't need to overpay a FA.

------------------Doss-------------Winfield--------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
McCauley------------------------------------------Griffin


That little random idiot theory would be a void if we could get our mitts on Kenny Phillips though.


DOSS???> he sucks... and winfield is too good a corner right now to put at safety... maybe later in his career though... we really need to draft a BIG hard hitting guy back there who can cover as well...

Suick
12-03-2007, 01:18 PM
Who was that pass D out there yesterday and what did they do with our Vikings? ;D

PS

Winfield is a great tackler but a WAY over-rated pass defender.

Mr Anderson
12-03-2007, 01:52 PM
"V" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Getting Winfield back will certainly help.

I wouldn't worry about the huge amounts of passing yardage we give up. All offenses do rack up the yards, but only the great offenses we have faced have been able to convert that into points. If our defense holds the other team to under 20 points, I'm happy. We have let up mor than 215 yards passing (league average) 9 times this year, but let up more than 22 points (league average) only 5 times. 3 of those were 23 against PHI, 23 against GB, and 24 against Dallas.

I expect good passing teams like the Lions, Packers, and Cowboys to light it up against us. They do that to everybody. Only great passing offenses like the Cowboys, Packers, Steelers, Colts, and Patriots will be able to consistently turn that into points.

So, while our passing game isn't the best, the only game I was disappointed by was Chicago.


Steelers are 24th in the league in pass offense.


I know, but I'm just basing it off things other than stats. First off all, the Steelers are more committed to the run than they sometimes need to be. When they do pass they are pretty effective. I don't think Roethlisberger, Ward, Holmes, and Washington against our secondary is a favorable matchup for us. Not to mention Tomlin against his old defensive unit. They would cause us all sorts of problems.


I think our dbacks match up athletically with the Steelers receivers, especially Ward and Washington, Holmes could be a problem with his speed, but we did shut down Calvin Johnson. But as a unit, excluding Sharper(who this doesn't ALWAYs apply to, I've seen him make a few costly mistakes this year) and Winfield I think we aren't disciplined enough to manage against their efficient play-action passing game. By mid-season next year our young guys(Griffin and McCauley) should be playing like veterans with the amount of experience they've been getting. Put another safety into the mix(Kenny Phillips I hope) and we're 100% ready to shut down every passing attack the NFC has to offer.... now just to beat those Colts and Pats
:o

You can teach patience and discipline, but you can't teach athleticism.

vikesfargo
12-03-2007, 03:05 PM
My take:

Strength: Ranked 1st against the run

Weakness: Ranked 32nd against the pass in yards/game

Strength: Ranked 11th against the pass in average yards/pass (thanks to previous poster for the info)

Weakness: Ranked 24th against the pass in opponents' completion percentage (63.5% (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Passing&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1139&timeframe=))

Weakness: Ranked 32nd in number of passing 1st downs given up (176 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=8851B463972CD86D20E3B5E50F73FBDA?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_FIRST_DOWNS&d-447263-n=1))

Weakness: Tied for 30th in number of oppenents' passes that have gone for 20 or more yards (41 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=F71D1F1F462086971D007292D8EB6340?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1))

Conclusion: While our passing defense is definitely improved, there is still a lot of room for improvement.

Thoughts: Considering we have rookies or near-rookies starting at RDE, LDE, WLB, RCB, and nickel and dime DBs, the progress we have made is very significant.

All phases of the pass defense need to be improved. There is no way to do that overnight. It's going to be next year at the very earliest before our pass defense begins to really get good. Could we upgrade our personnel in the offseson? Yes. We lack a playmaker on defense--someone akin to Strahan, Ray Lewis, Shawne Merriman, or Troy Polamalu. It's not just personnel, though. It's also the players training and practicing hard, and getting better and better.

Signs of potential excellence abound, like better tackling. Lots of hope for the future. At this time, however, our pass defense is not championship-caliber.

Marrdro
12-03-2007, 03:14 PM
"vikesfargo" wrote:


My take:

Strength: Ranked 1st against the run

Weakness: Ranked 32nd against the pass in yards/game

Strength: Ranked 11th against the pass in average yards/pass (thanks to previous poster for the info)

Weakness: Ranked 24th against the pass in opponents' completion percentage (63.5% (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Passing&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1139&timeframe=))

Weakness: Ranked 32nd in number of passing 1st downs given up (176 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=8851B463972CD86D20E3B5E50F73FBDA?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_FIRST_DOWNS&d-447263-n=1))

Weakness: Tied for 30th in number of oppenents' passes that have gone for 20 or more yards (41 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=F71D1F1F462086971D007292D8EB6340?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1))

Conclusion: While our passing defense is definitely improved, there is still a lot of room for improvement.

Thoughts: Considering we have rookies or near-rookies starting at RDE, LDE, WLB, RCB, and nickel and dime DBs, the progress we have made is very significant.

All phases of the pass defense need to be improved. There is no way to do that overnight. It's going to be next year at the very earliest before our pass defense begins to really get good. Could we upgrade our personnel in the offseson? Yes. We lack a playmaker on defense--someone akin to Strahan, Ray Lewis, Shawne Merriman, or Troy Polamalu. It's not just personnel, though. It's also the players training and practicing hard, and getting better and better.

Signs of potential excellence abound, like better tackling. Lots of hope for the future. At this time, however, our pass defense is not championship-caliber.


I agree.
One thing to ponder is that even if we do add a stud DE (Suggs) in the offseason, all the guys on the DL will only compliment him.

We have alot of good players that seamlessly are rolled in and out now without any kindof significant drop off in production. The problem is that the production is a bit off in those areas you mentioned and shouldn't be to maligned.

A Suggs like player would only benifit from a cast of characters such as we have.

Very nice post by the way.

;D

Purple D
12-03-2007, 03:17 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikesfargo" wrote:


My take:

Strength: Ranked 1st against the run

Weakness: Ranked 32nd against the pass in yards/game

Strength: Ranked 11th against the pass in average yards/pass (thanks to previous poster for the info)

Weakness: Ranked 24th against the pass in opponents' completion percentage (63.5% (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Passing&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1139&timeframe=))

Weakness: Ranked 32nd in number of passing 1st downs given up (176 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=8851B463972CD86D20E3B5E50F73FBDA?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_FIRST_DOWNS&d-447263-n=1))

Weakness: Tied for 30th in number of oppenents' passes that have gone for 20 or more yards (41 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=F71D1F1F462086971D007292D8EB6340?season=&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1))

Conclusion: While our passing defense is definitely improved, there is still a lot of room for improvement.

Thoughts: Considering we have rookies or near-rookies starting at RDE, LDE, WLB, RCB, and nickel and dime DBs, the progress we have made is very significant.

All phases of the pass defense need to be improved. There is no way to do that overnight. It's going to be next year at the very earliest before our pass defense begins to really get good. Could we upgrade our personnel in the offseson? Yes. We lack a playmaker on defense--someone akin to Strahan, Ray Lewis, Shawne Merriman, or Troy Polamalu. It's not just personnel, though. It's also the players training and practicing hard, and getting better and better.

Signs of potential excellence abound, like better tackling. Lots of hope for the future. At this time, however, our pass defense is not championship-caliber.


I agree.
One thing to ponder is that even if we do add a stud DE (Suggs) in the offseason, all the guys on the DL will only compliment him.

We have alot of good players that seamlessly are rolled in and out now without any kindof significant drop off in production.

A Suggs like player would only benifit from a cast of characters such as we have.

Very nice post by the way.

;D


I do think that Robison will be much like Kampman.
They even look similar in the face.

But looking like someone and playing like someone are two different things.
But Robison will be a force in the next couple of years.

davike
12-03-2007, 04:40 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


Griffin is emerging as a stud. Has all the physical tools needed, if he can cut out his momentary lapses
in judgment he could be a great corner. Ced had troubles making tackles early on this season and teams were picking on him, but he really stepped up his game and now he's hitting like a safety (not ours lol)

McCauley is the same, good young corner, needs time, but really he's all there.

Gorden has even shown flashes.



Our problems are at Safety, ours are way too old. Although It would be cool (in my eyes) to have AW playing SS next year with Doss at FS. & then we wouldn't need to overpay a FA.

------------------Doss-------------Winfield--------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
McCauley------------------------------------------Griffin


That little random idiot theory would be a void if we could get our mitts on Kenny Phillips though.


DOSS???> he sucks... and winfield is too good a corner right now to put at safety... maybe later in his career though... we really need to draft a BIG hard hitting guy back there who can cover as well...


First of all....Doss? He certainly doesn't suck. I don't think he should be starting for us at this point, but he doesn't suck. An excellent back up. I agree that Winfield shouldn't be put at saftey.

davike
12-03-2007, 04:52 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


Griffin is emerging as a stud. Has all the physical tools needed, if he can cut out his momentary lapses
in judgment he could be a great corner. Ced had troubles making tackles early on this season and teams were picking on him, but he really stepped up his game and now he's hitting like a safety (not ours lol)

McCauley is the same, good young corner, needs time, but really he's all there.

Gorden has even shown flashes.



Our problems are at Safety, ours are way too old. Although It would be cool (in my eyes) to have AW playing SS next year with Doss at FS. & then we wouldn't need to overpay a FA.

------------------Doss-------------Winfield--------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
McCauley------------------------------------------Griffin


That little random idiot theory would be a void if we could get our mitts on Kenny Phillips though.


So were are going to cut/bench Smith and Sharper in the offseason? Your crazy. They are still playing great football, Smith has been awesome this year. Sharper hasn't been crazy this year, but he is playing his part for sure, he is a great leader on our defense.

Winfield is still the best corner on our team, he will be starting at corner next year. I agree that Griffin has been playing well, he took a lot earlier this season and was dealing with it well enough to the point where they stopped picking on him so much. McCauley has been AWESOME for a rookie. Teams have been picking on him big time and he has delt with it better then Griffin IMO. He has been playing great! He has really stepped up. And I believe he will threaten Griffen for starting job opposite Winfield next year. I have more confidence in McCauley then I do in Griffen at this point. Griffin is more mature at this point and has come a long way since the beginning of the season (just like the rest of the team).

Gordan should get more snaps. I hate it when I see Whitacker out there and Gordan on the sideline. Gordan could be a stud.

We have a ton of potential at this position.

davike
12-03-2007, 05:12 PM
"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


If you asked this a few weeks ago I would've said duh, everyone should be. But within the last few weeks we've shown we can get consistent pressure on the qb. I don't know if it's the schemes or better play, but it's working. McCauley has shown to me that he shouldn't be starting. I don't think he's horrible, but not a starter yet. I can't wait for winfield to come back. BTW, when is he supposed to return? One thing I have noticed about our corners, and I don't know if it's always been like this and I just noticed or something else, but they tackle very well. When they are lined up man on man, very rarley are the recievers getting good yac.



At first he was making some serious mistakes....show me something in the last couple games to show he was playing at a level that was below the average starting CB in this league. He has been brilliant for a rookie. He has learned a ton since the beginning of the season and you can see it. He should only get better with more playing time. He has been matched up against some pretty good WRs and has done a terrific job. I think he could be starting for us without a problem, but he will go back to 3rd CB once Winfield comes back probably.

I also like it when we play man to man. Griffin isn't quite fast enough to keep up with some of the faster WRs when they go downfield but the coaches need to be prepared for that and have a saftey helping. But he has been playing really well lately just like the rest of the team.

hawaiianvike21
12-03-2007, 05:29 PM
while the yards dont matter to some and yes points given up is a huge factor, those yards and stops that we need in a close low scoring game could come back to haunt us. so ya yards isint the whole story and ya no one wants to run when they can pass on us. remember that game against the packers last year, 9-7 i believe, defense could not get off the field and were tired as hel by the fourth quarter.

i just want us to get many 3 and outs esp if the secondary can play man coverage instead of getting picked apart in cover 2.

it does help if our offense can move the ball long enough by air or ground to keep our d off the field.

NordicNed
12-03-2007, 05:38 PM
"hawaiianvike21" wrote:


while the yards dont matter to some and yes points given up is a huge factor, those yards and stops that we need in a close low scoring game could come back to haunt us. so ya yards isint the whole story and ya no one wants to run when they can pass on us. remember that game against the packers last year, 9-7 i believe, defense could not get off the field and were tired as hel by the fourth quarter.

i just want us to get many 3 and outs esp if the secondary can play man coverage instead of getting picked apart in cover 2.

it does help if our offense can move the ball long enough by air or ground to keep our d off the field.



Two questions HawaiianVike,






Do you own any roosters?
And do you have any hot Hawaiian chicks I can meet?
;D

Frostbite
12-03-2007, 05:49 PM
Well....the best I think we can hope for with the personel we have is a bend but don't break type of performance. I mean inconsistant has to be a key word when you look at our Pass D this season. I think these are the reasons why:

Injuries (Some Players not at full strength)

Experience at some of the D positions

Good Game plans and execution by opposing Teams (They do there homework on us)

Perhaps to much concentration on stopping the run (Putting to many eggs in one basket instead of spreading them out)

Occasionally poor Defensive play calls (Or lack of execution of the Play call?)

Let's see how they do the rest of the way....some adjustments will most likely be necessary in the off season.

Cheers!

hawaiianvike21
12-03-2007, 05:58 PM
"NordicNed" wrote:


"hawaiianvike21" wrote:


while the yards dont matter to some and yes points given up is a huge factor, those yards and stops that we need in a close low scoring game could come back to haunt us. so ya yards isint the whole story and ya no one wants to run when they can pass on us. remember that game against the packers last year, 9-7 i believe, defense could not get off the field and were tired as hel by the fourth quarter.

i just want us to get many 3 and outs esp if the secondary can play man coverage instead of getting picked apart in cover 2.

it does help if our offense can move the ball long enough by air or ground to keep our d off the field.



Two questions HawaiianVike,






Do you own any roosters?
And do you have any hot Hawaiian chicks I can meet?
;D



unfortunately i dont own any roostahs, but i wouldnt mind having some for dinner though. :D you like roostah fighting, cant use the other term apparently.
i could arrange some hawaiian chicks for you to meet, but you might be labeled a pettifilier if i think i know what age range you are in.

V-Unit
12-03-2007, 07:09 PM
It's hard to see Griffin's improvement because he's going up against #1 receivers when he was going up against #2s earlier in the year. I think his run support has been great and am hoping that when Winfield comes back Griffin will shut down guys like Randle El and Arnaz Battle.

NordicNed
12-03-2007, 07:14 PM
Let us all not forget that, when a team has to rely on it's passing game alone to win a game, the odds are against most that they will not succede.......



Plus, our D backs are much more capable and playing solid ball, than most want to give them credit for...

singersp
12-03-2007, 07:44 PM
"NordicNed" wrote:


Let us all not forget that, when a team has to rely on it's passing game alone to win a game, the odds are against most that they will not succede.......




Plus, our D backs are much more capable and playing solid ball, than most want to give them credit for...









There'a a difference between relying on it & using it all the time if a defense is giving it up. If we are giving up scads of pass plays, teams will always throw on is. No ifs, ands or buts.

A lot of teams strategies are to go with what the defense gives up. In our case, it's the pass.

FreakinVikingsBaby
12-04-2007, 12:01 AM
"davike" wrote:


"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


If you asked this a few weeks ago I would've said duh, everyone should be. But within the last few weeks we've shown we can get consistent pressure on the qb. I don't know if it's the schemes or better play, but it's working. McCauley has shown to me that he shouldn't be starting. I don't think he's horrible, but not a starter yet. I can't wait for winfield to come back. BTW, when is he supposed to return? One thing I have noticed about our corners, and I don't know if it's always been like this and I just noticed or something else, but they tackle very well. When they are lined up man on man, very rarley are the recievers getting good yac.



At first he was making some serious mistakes....show me something in the last couple games to show he was playing at a level that was below the average starting CB in this league. He has been brilliant for a rookie. He has learned a ton since the beginning of the season and you can see it. He should only get better with more playing time. He has been matched up against some pretty good WRs and has done a terrific job. I think he could be starting for us without a problem, but he will go back to 3rd CB once Winfield comes back probably.

I also like it when we play man to man. Griffin isn't quite fast enough to keep up with some of the faster WRs when they go downfield but the coaches need to be prepared for that and have a saftey helping. But he has been playing really well lately just like the rest of the team.




The first half of the oakland game he didn't even look like his head was in the game. I didn't get to watch the giants game. The game against detroit he got burned on at least 3 occasions but kitna didn't see him 2x and the third we got a sack. I'm not scared when he's in, but compared to the confidence I have with winfield, well there's just no comparison. No doubt he's shown talent, but he seems to eager to jump routes.

Frostbite
12-04-2007, 12:12 AM
"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


"davike" wrote:


"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


If you asked this a few weeks ago I would've said duh, everyone should be. But within the last few weeks we've shown we can get consistent pressure on the qb. I don't know if it's the schemes or better play, but it's working. McCauley has shown to me that he shouldn't be starting. I don't think he's horrible, but not a starter yet. I can't wait for winfield to come back. BTW, when is he supposed to return? One thing I have noticed about our corners, and I don't know if it's always been like this and I just noticed or something else, but they tackle very well. When they are lined up man on man, very rarley are the recievers getting good yac.



At first he was making some serious mistakes....show me something in the last couple games to show he was playing at a level that was below the average starting CB in this league. He has been brilliant for a rookie. He has learned a ton since the beginning of the season and you can see it. He should only get better with more playing time. He has been matched up against some pretty good WRs and has done a terrific job. I think he could be starting for us without a problem, but he will go back to 3rd CB once Winfield comes back probably.

I also like it when we play man to man. Griffin isn't quite fast enough to keep up with some of the faster WRs when they go downfield but the coaches need to be prepared for that and have a saftey helping. But he has been playing really well lately just like the rest of the team.




The first half of the oakland game he didn't even look like his head was in the game. I didn't get to watch the giants game. The game against detroit he got burned on at least 3 occasions but kitna didn't see him 2x and the third we got a sack. I'm not scared when he's in, but compared to the confidence I have with winfield, well there's just no comparison. No doubt he's shown talent, but he seems to eager to jump routes.




Part of the problem here could be that you are trying to compare Winfield with a Rookie Corner. It is very rare for a defensive back....or any other position for that matter to come into the NFL and have instant success or look as good as a Veteran in there first year. Rookie DBs will always get tested a lot...and should be because they lack experience and have not played across from the guys on the other side of the ball enough to know there route tendencies....traits...skills...weaknesses....etc. I have a feeling he look a lot better by next season and as playing time increases.

Cheers!

FreakinVikingsBaby
12-04-2007, 12:27 AM
I'm not dissagreeing with you frost, but the fact remains he won't shut anyone down. Has he shown promise and skill?-Absolutley. But to be honest, I'd have more faith in smoot than him right now. I expect he'll definitley be competing for a starting job in his 3rd year, very possibly next year. But for right now, I don't think he should start.

Frostbite
12-04-2007, 12:40 AM
I see your point too freakinVikingsBaby....but I am honestly more disappointed with Cedric Griffin than McCauley so far this season. You can always bench a guy for awhile but I like the "Feet to flames" approach....especially for young CBs and Safties. Just My Humble Opinion.


Cheers!

Potus2028
12-04-2007, 12:52 AM
Just stat worth analyzing.

The defense with the most PASSING TD'S allowed is not the vikings (tied for 8 best, 16 td's) at .. but the browns (with 27!!)

The Vikings only have the worst pass defense because nobody runs on us. We have given up more passing yards than any other team, because we lead the league in passes thrown against our team. an average of 41 passes on our team leads the league by 3 passes per game.

The passing yards against us are some of the rushing yards other teams allow.

And the important part about defense is NOT yards.. but POINTS!

The vikings have the 10th best defense by points, at 20 (19.8 really) points a game. beating teams like the giants, cowboys, cardinals, and saints.

Frostbite
12-04-2007, 01:06 AM
"Potus2028" wrote:


Just stat worth analyzing.

The defense with the most PASSING TD'S allowed is not the vikings (tied for 8 best, 16 td's) at .. but the browns (with 27!!)

The Vikings only have the worst pass defense because nobody runs on us. We have given up more passing yards than any other team, because we lead the league in passes thrown against our team. an average of 41 passes on our team leads the league by 3 passes per game.

The passing yards against us are some of the rushing yards other teams allow.

And the important part about defense is NOT yards.. but POINTS!

The vikings have the 10th best defense by points, at 20 (19.8 really) points a game. beating teams like the giants, cowboys, cardinals, and saints.




Very good point protus2028....


Cheers!

davike
12-04-2007, 01:25 AM
"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


I'm not dissagreeing with you frost, but the fact remains he won't shut anyone down. Has he shown promise and skill?-Absolutley. But to be honest, I'd have more faith in smoot than him right now. I expect he'll definitley be competing for a starting job in his 3rd year, very possibly next year. But for right now, I don't think he should start.


I agree with Frost....you can't compare him to Winfield at this point. And do I think he should be our #1 or 2 CB? No. I like him at number 3 and filling in. But he has done great filling in for Winfield.

I think he has been targeted the most of all our CBs. Even Champ Bailey will get burned a few times if your throw it at him long enough. I am not comparing McCauley to Bailey, but I am saying that he has held up very well considering the amount of passes thrown at him. Look at the number of times he has been thrown at and then what percent he gets "burned" on. Don't forget he is still a rookie and will make rookie mistakes. He is also quicker then Griffen and he won't be as likely to get beat down field. For a rookie the guy is playing amazing!

Potus2028
12-04-2007, 03:07 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


"Potus2028" wrote:


Just stat worth analyzing.

The defense with the most PASSING TD'S allowed is not the vikings (tied for 8 best, 16 td's) at .. but the browns (with 27!!)

The Vikings only have the worst pass defense because nobody runs on us. We have given up more passing yards than any other team, because we lead the league in passes thrown against our team. an average of 41 passes on our team leads the league by 3 passes per game.

The passing yards against us are some of the rushing yards other teams allow.

And the important part about defense is NOT yards.. but POINTS!

The vikings have the 10th best defense by points, at 20 (19.8 really) points a game. beating teams like the giants, cowboys, cardinals, and saints.




Very good point protus2028....


Cheers!


it's true you know..

nobody seems to mention those facts about out D.. just the fact that we are 32nd in passint yards

bleedpurple
12-04-2007, 03:54 PM
"Potus2028" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


"Potus2028" wrote:


Just stat worth analyzing.

The defense with the most PASSING TD'S allowed is not the vikings (tied for 8 best, 16 td's) at .. but the browns (with 27!!)

The Vikings only have the worst pass defense because nobody runs on us. We have given up more passing yards than any other team, because we lead the league in passes thrown against our team. an average of 41 passes on our team leads the league by 3 passes per game.

The passing yards against us are some of the rushing yards other teams allow.

And the important part about defense is NOT yards.. but POINTS!

The vikings have the 10th best defense by points, at 20 (19.8 really) points a game. beating teams like the giants, cowboys, cardinals, and saints.




Very good point protus2028....


Cheers!


it's true you know..

nobody seems to mention those facts about out D.. just the fact that we are 32nd in passint yards


I'm not sure about that.... stats are stats.. but the fact remains even if you could run against us.. i think, with the exception of the last few weeks, we'd still be towards the bottom in pass defense... the corners play entirely way too far off on opposing receivers.. Look at our percentage on 3rd and long... its terrible...altough we've done a better job at it lately...

Also, isn't it the point to make defensed 1 dimensional????
if that's the case, we have an advantage from the first snap of the game.. so, if that's the case, we can pin our ears back and go after the QB... and one would think if you know what they're gonna do, then we should be better at pass defense.. we should be forcing alot more 3 and outs than we are... and with that said, we still cant' get consistent pressure with our front four.. and our zone coverage is GOD AWFUL!!

so until we can get pressure on the QB with the front four on a consistent basis, teams will have all day long to throw the ball...

Also i don't think it's ALL the corners fault a lot of the time.. two things i've noticed in our pass defense is the lack of pressure with the front four, and when we're in zone coverage, we're soo busy looking in the back field alot of times (LB's especially) they fail to recognize and cover/close a window on men running in their zones making an easy pass for wr's running routes and sitting in the gaps in the zone...

Prophet
12-04-2007, 03:56 PM
No.

Potus2028
12-04-2007, 04:01 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Potus2028" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


"Potus2028" wrote:


Just stat worth analyzing.

The defense with the most PASSING TD'S allowed is not the vikings (tied for 8 best, 16 td's) at .. but the browns (with 27!!)

The Vikings only have the worst pass defense because nobody runs on us. We have given up more passing yards than any other team, because we lead the league in passes thrown against our team. an average of 41 passes on our team leads the league by 3 passes per game.

The passing yards against us are some of the rushing yards other teams allow.

And the important part about defense is NOT yards.. but POINTS!

The vikings have the 10th best defense by points, at 20 (19.8 really) points a game. beating teams like the giants, cowboys, cardinals, and saints.




Very good point protus2028....


Cheers!


it's true you know..

nobody seems to mention those facts about out D.. just the fact that we are 32nd in passint yards


I'm not sure about that.... stats are stats.. but the fact remains even if you could run against us.. i think, with the exception of the last few weeks, we'd still be towards the bottom in pass defense... the corners play entirely way too far off on opposing receivers.. Look at our percentage on 3rd and long... its terrible...altough we've done a better job at it lately...

Also, isn't it the point to make defensed 1 dimensional????
if that's the case, we have an advantage from the first snap of the game.. so, if that's the case, we can pin our ears back and go after the QB... and one would think if you know what they're gonna do, then we should be better at pass defense.. we should be forcing alot more 3 and outs than we are... and with that said, we still cant' get consistent pressure with our front four.. and our zone coverage is GOD AWFUL!!

so until we can get pressure on the QB with the front four on a consistent basis, teams will have all day long to throw the ball...

Also i don't think it's ALL the corners fault a lot of the time.. two things i've noticed in our pass defense is the lack of pressure with the front four, and when we're in zone coverage, we're soo busy looking in the back field alot of times (LB's especially) they fail to recognize and cover/close a window on men running in their zones making an easy pass for wr's running routes and sitting in the gaps in the zone...


which is it? is it the corners fault or not..

i dont think it's our fault at all..

i think it's the fact that teams only pass on us.. so we give the passing yards.. but not the passing points as i have stated