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COJOMAY
12-02-2007, 08:09 PM
Firs tof all let me begin by saying this was one of the poorest refereed games I've seen in a long time. I mean calls were totally missed on both side of the ball.
But to my real question...
I don't pride myself as being an expert but I still don't understand the call made when Kitna dropped the ball. The referees said that his arm was not moving forward. Doesn't that make it a fumble rather than an incomplete pass? Then they don't even count the play as a down! What's up with that?
Cna someone please enlighten me?

BadlandsVikings
12-02-2007, 08:11 PM
....and why did it take so long to review that call?
I tought it was only suppose to take 90 seconds/

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 08:13 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


Firs tof all let me begin by saying this was one of the poorest refereed games I've seen in a long time. I mean calls were totally missed on both side of the ball.
But to my real question...
I don't pride myself as being an expert but I still don't understand the call made when Kitna dropped the ball. The referees said that his arm was not moving forward. Doesn't that make it a fumble rather than an incomplete pass? Then they don't even count the play as a down! What's up with that?
Cna someone please enlighten me?


They said his arm wasn't moving forward, which instead of an incomplete pass, it made it a sack. I do not believe they awarded anyone a forced fumble, because according to them the rule states that since the play was blown dead, you "can't determine who would have came up with the ball" if it was overturned into a fumble, even tho the vidoe evidence was CLEAR that we did.


So we got a sack for it instead of an incompletion... still a very strange and dumb reversal, but i'll take it over nothing.

Braddock
12-02-2007, 08:14 PM
I thought the same thing. If nothing else, they should have explained it better. It won't get any airtime though b/c we won by such a large margin.

BleedinPandG
12-02-2007, 08:15 PM
I believe it was called a fumble however the Ref had blown the whistles and therefore the ball stayed with the offense.
Instead of being an incomplete pass it was a sack and loss of yards.
I'm not sure it was really worth a challenge (risk a timeout for a few yards of field possession) but Fans and some players may have been furious if he hadn't thinking we could've gotten the ball regardless of the whistle.
Fact was, it was an inadvertent whistle and it cost us the ball.

I didn't think the calls were that bad.
They let the players play.
I wasn't real impressed with the holding call on Wade, that's how most Wideouts block, but oh well...

Braddock
12-02-2007, 08:16 PM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


I believe it was called a fumble however the Ref had blown the whistles and therefore the ball stayed with the offense.
Instead of being an incomplete pass it was a sack and loss of yards.
I'm not sure it was really worth a challenge (risk a timeout for a few yards of field possession) but Fans and some players may have been furious if he hadn't thinking we could've gotten the ball regardless of the whistle.
Fact was, it was an inadvertent whistle and it cost us the ball.

I didn't think the calls were that bad.
They let the players play.
I wasn't real impressed with the holding call on Wade, that's how most Wideouts block, but oh well...


I thought that was legit.

BleedinPandG
12-02-2007, 08:18 PM
Legit, probably... but I'd argue that same thing happens on most runs around the side when WRs are blocking...

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 08:24 PM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


Legit, probably... but I'd argue that same thing happens on most runs around the side when WRs are blocking...


Yes but like its been said "If you wanted too, you could call holding on every single play of every game"

COJOMAY
12-02-2007, 08:25 PM
The announcers on the TV didn't know what was going on and so neither did I. They never explained about that you can't reverse the call. But what bothers me even more is that then the Lions had one more play and faced a fourth down. But the guy holding the side marker said third down. I don't think the announcers knew what was going on because they said that officially there had been three downs and it was fourth down. Then they said the pass/fumble didn't count as a play. But I counted three plays, too. I tried to look up the play by play on ESPN but it wasn't totally up yet.
I still don't understand that one.

vikesfargo
12-02-2007, 08:28 PM
The refereeing wasn't all that bad, IMO. The WVA/Pitt game was a lot worse.

If the whistle blows, the play is dead right there, no matter what.

NFL officiating has improved a lot in the last few years. I'd still like to see a booth review for pass interference, and whether a field goal try was successful, though.

Marrdro
12-02-2007, 08:41 PM
All the reason that the challenge by the Chiller (and company) was successfull the play before.


After the Kitties got the ball back after the mysterious fumble/non fumble call would have got back into FG range again based on the yards they got after the next play.

Probably insignificant in the grander scheme of things, but a good challenge non the less that no one has even bothered to mention.


Just thought I would stick that barb in someones eye a bit especially after some of the crap he has taken for some other challenges.
;D

singersp
12-04-2007, 05:52 AM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


Firs tof all let me begin by saying this was one of the poorest refereed games I've seen in a long time. I mean calls were totally missed on both side of the ball.
But to my real question...
I don't pride myself as being an expert but I still don't understand the call made when Kitna dropped the ball. The referees said that his arm was not moving forward. Doesn't that make it a fumble rather than an incomplete pass? Then they don't even count the play as a down! What's up with that?
Cna someone please enlighten me?


Here's the link to the play-by-play. I can't find were it occurred that they got an extra down.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29376&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG13


Detroit Lions continues ...

1-10-DET 47
(15:00) 8-J.Kitna pass short right to 87-M.Furrey to MIN 46 for 7 yards (41-C.Gordon; 31-M.McCauley).


2-3-MIN 46 (14:25) (Shotgun) PENALTY on DET-65-D.Woody, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 46 - No Play.


2-8-DET 49
(14:03) (Shotgun) 8-J.Kitna to DET 43 for -6 yards. FUMBLES, and recovers at DET 41. 8-J.Kitna pass to 87-M.Furrey to MIN 46 for 5 yards (42-D.Sharper).


3-3-MIN 46 (14:03) 8-J.Kitna pass incomplete to 81-C.Johnson.


4-3-MIN 46
(13:24) 8-J.Kitna pass short middle to 81-C.Johnson to MIN 29 for 17 yards (41-C.Gordon).


1-10-MIN 29 (12:50) 8-J.Kitna pass incomplete (56-E.Henderson). Play Challenged by MIN and REVERSED. 8-J.Kitna sacked at MIN 37 for -8 yards (56-E.Henderson). FUMBLES (56-E.Henderson) [56-E.Henderson], declared dead at MIN 37.


2-18-MIN 37 (12:31) (Shotgun) 8-J.Kitna pass short right to 84-S.McDonald to MIN 35 for 2 yards (92-J.Mitchell). PENALTY on DET-84-S.McDonald, Unsportsmanlike Conduct, 15 yards, enforced at MIN 35.


3-31-
(12:11) 8-J.Kitna pass short middle to 36-A.Cason to MIN 39 for 11 yards (41-C.Gordon).


4-20-MIN 39
(11:20) 2-N.Harris punts 28 yards to MIN 11, Center-48-D.Muhlbach, fair catch by 30-M.Moore.