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singersp
12-02-2007, 05:44 AM
His way, like it or not (http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_7612403)

Brad Childress is trying to win games, not a popularity contest. The strong-willed Vikings coach has critics on the team but also has his owner's backing.

BY SEAN JENSEN
Pioneer Press

Article Last Updated: 12/02/2007 12:24:17 AM CST


About three weeks ago, a day after a humiliating 34-0 loss in Green Bay, two Vikings players broached one of the most dreaded terms in a locker room: rebuilding year......

Caine
12-02-2007, 07:29 AM
Well, that article pretty much confirmed most everything I suspected about Childress.
I am not a big fan of his, and I don't believe that his philosophy is the best course.
But here are some highlights (lowlights?) I plucked:


Last week, Vikings owner Zygi Wilf even said publicly that Childress will be back in 2008. A number of Vikings players would rather be playing for another coach, but they know that Childress isn't going anywhere.

"It's hard to play for someone you don't like," one player said. "But I don't think Zygi will let him go. You've just got to be professional."

Wilf is commited to the "Childress Doctrine", the players aren't.
While I don't advocate allowing the players to run the show, at some point you have to allow the guys on the field to do what they do...after all, that's why you drafted/signed them.
Sounds to me like we might see more departures this offseason...and once a coach gets a negative rep, it's tough to bring in those top tier players via free agency.


In early March, veteran quarterback Jeff Garcia considered signing with the Vikings, according to a person with knowledge of the situation. But Garcia wanted something Childress was not ready to give him, according to the source - the starting job.

A much bandied about theory here, Garcia was available but Chiller is committed to Jackson.
As a very active detractor of rushing Jackson into the line-up, I think this highlights what I have railed against for so long.
Garcia would have made this team better NOW and allowed Jackson to develop while we brought in more talent at WR (through draft or FA).
Now, while you can argue that Jackson needs game time to develop, I think that he would have been better off had we gone the other way...and God knows our record would likely be better.


Players have hinted or complained about the offensive and defensive philosophies, namely the lack of aggressiveness on defense and the lack of pass plays on offense. Among the public dissenters: Shiancoe, receivers Robert Ferguson and Troy Williamson, and safeties Darren Sharper and Dwight Smith.

Among the complaints about Childress: He is quick to anger and slow to admit his fault, he is close-minded, he can be petty, and he is controlling.

Oddly, this mirrors many of the things I have been saying all season.
Childress appears to me to be much like Ted Cottrell was - so committed to HIS system that he fails to recognize when it isn't working and doesn't adapt to current situations.


As for the players who have publicly been detractors, I wonder how much longer we'll have them on the roster.
Williamson will probably be gone - he hasn't done anything worthy of his contract - but the others have been productive, some more than others.
It wouldn't suprise me to see holes in our starting secondary after the season.

There's a lot in that article that I found interesting.
But, by and large, it simply confirmed an image of Brad Childress that I already had.
While I don't fault his INTENT, I'm not a fan of his methods.
And, like the players, we're stuck with him.


Caine

Articnv
12-02-2007, 07:41 AM
I already had the impression of the may
way

vibe from Childress when he took so many games until AD go to run wild

PurpleTide
12-02-2007, 09:12 AM
As this team starts to win games, and the systems coaches Childress, and Frazier have implemented, and tuned to better fit our personnel start to enable our guys to play to their skills, the learning process to get here has been the source of some malcontent. Both the fans who seek instant gratification, and the players who feel they aren't being used properly.

Now we have won two games in a row, Tarvaris is looking better, and the offense is executing better. The defense isn't locked into the Tampa2 everydown, and the mix has presented lots of problems to opposing QB's the last couple weeks. I like what I'm seeing and that is a subtle give and take between coaches and players to do what they do best in our system. It takes awhile to figure out what's best, and I think Childress has a plan for today as well a plan for the future. As Marrdro would say "the whole picture. ;D"

Marrdro
12-02-2007, 09:21 AM
I was suprised by two things....

One that someone actually admitted that we could have gotten Garcia.
One day the whole story will come out.

The other is that fact that all the negative quotes are attributed to "A Player" or "One Player said,".
Sure is alot of "Off the Record" reporting going on inside the halls of Winter Park.

Mr-holland
12-02-2007, 09:59 AM
Of course it is his way if you like it or not, that is why he is the head of the franchise and the Head coach.
What i do think is that Childress has to adjust a little bit more, but he is growing in that more and more and listening to the players and the 180 turn that Sharper has made...

About Garcia, everybody wanted him here i think, but it's like Marrdro said we don't know the whole story and someday hopefully we will know that. after all BJ was starting Qb and bollinger was back-up last season so i can't imagine that Childress already decided that Tarvaris would get the starting role this season

ultravikingfan
12-02-2007, 11:50 AM
LOL!


Among the public dissenters: Shiancoe, receivers Robert Ferguson and Troy Williamson, and safeties Darren Sharper and Dwight Smith.

Please do something first.
Smith has looked golden, then plummets with terrible judgement in the passing game.
Granted he did good last week, but he has a way to go.

Sharper, find another team please.
We could use a player who can (and wants to tackle) and defend passes.

Troy:
no explanation needed.

Shiancoe who?

NordicNed
12-02-2007, 11:55 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


LOL!


Among the public dissenters: Shiancoe, receivers Robert Ferguson and Troy Williamson, and safeties Darren Sharper and Dwight Smith.

Please do something first.
Smith has looked golden, then plummets with terrible judgement in the passing game.
Granted he did good last week, but he has a way to go.

Sharper, find another team please.
We could use a player who can (and wants to tackle) and defend passes.

Troy:
no explanation needed.

Shiancoe who?





Shiancoe who?......Thats what I say also,
but I would love to see them try to get him into the mix more....He's got good hands and has looked good when we have gone to him.......I"m not sure if it's him not finding the creases or is he just being overlooked?....

BleedinPandG
12-02-2007, 12:30 PM
He was a first year coach walking into a messed up team with a number of Veterans.
The Vikings had a screwed up personality, a lot of issues on the field and off, and had a complete legacy of under achievement.
Sometimes, in situations like that, you need to come in with a brick head and just force change through.
It's never an easy process but sometimes it's necessary.
If you don't push hard you'll get knocked over and knocked out by the team.

I'd challenge this writer to find any team who is 3-6 and find players who aren't saying the same things.
Losing breeds this type of malcontent while winning makes all the problems of the world go away.
Nothing in this article is terribly surprising.
What I'm seeing is the beginning of compromise between the coaches and the players.
I'm seeing a connection forming, an understanding of systems and abilities.
That process took time and now we're starting to see the fruits of it.

gregair13
12-02-2007, 02:22 PM
as long as AP gets the ball, i am happy

vikesfargo
12-02-2007, 05:24 PM
Brad Childress doesn't have a warm, fuzzy personality like Mike Tice. He is more like Bud Grant, but with less emotion.

Great leaders bring the same calm emotional state when times are good or times are bad. Regardless of anything else, Childress has this quality.

The NFL has a lot of spying and cheating. Most playcallers hold a card in front of their mouths now to prevent lip reading. The League destroyed the Patriots archived materials in Spygate. The League is so competitive, people will do anything to win.

In such an environment, having control over what kinds of information get shared with the rest of the world is critical. We can't have a player inadvertently spill part of the playbook before Sunday. We don't want anyone giving the other team bulletin board material. And we don't want a good guy like Allen Iverson to be unnecessarily tarred because a stupid remark slipped out one day about practice.

I've always suspected the Giants of cheating by intercepting our electronic communications between Denny Green and the OC in the booth during the NFC Championship 41-0 game. Regardless of whether that is true, the Vikings organization has important historical reasons for keeping certain kinds of information under tight control.

Garcia does have some knocks on him. He is known to force plays that aren't there. Secondly, Tarvaris Jackson's arm really is a major weapon, even though he hasn't started many games. As Jackson gets better, and the O-line gives him better pass protection, he will achieve many big things.

I support Childress and Wilf. They have shown lots of leadership, even in tough times. I'd like to see us sweep the Packers next year, but right now I am very pleased with the current direction.

Go Vikes! Let's whip the 49ers!

HornedHat
12-02-2007, 05:30 PM
I don't wanna just sweep the Puckers next season. We OWE them a butt kicking, and I want it.

Marrdro
12-02-2007, 05:31 PM
After todays performance I wonder if the writer wants to change his "Off the record" comments or at least go ask the players he (supposidely) got the quotes from if they have changed thier tune.

I still contend that at least someone in the front office would/should have wanted Garcia.
Maybe the staff (i.e Bryzcheapski and ownership) and the front office lowballed a offer to him.


To actually believe that the Vikings would basically go into the 2007 season as a throw away season, this would have to have been a total staff decision based on nothing more than the assumption that TJ would struggle and he would loose us games, fans would get pissed, ticket sales would dropp off etc etc etc.

Alot of stuff is said about the Chiller being a hard head and the perception that he wanted to go into the season with a 1-AA QB of TJ's caliber as his QB this year but I am not buying it no matter what quote people put in front of me.
I might be proven wrong on that, and maybe the Chiller did think TJ could win this year (He is 6-2) but I doubt it.

Again, long story short, I believe the front office (and not just the Chiller) went into this season counting this as a throw away developmental year.

BBQ Platypus
12-02-2007, 05:33 PM
Earlier this season, I compared Chilly to President Bush in his dogged insistence on doing things HIS way.
Right now, however, he reminds me more of Patrick Swayze in the movie Road House.

In case you're unfamiliar with Road House, it is unquestionably the greatest movie ever made.
It runs 114 mind-blowing, jiggly butt-kicking minutes, roughly 113 of which consist of bar fights or some other variety of jiggly butt-kickery.
The engaging, heart-poundingly dramatic storyline features Patrick Swayze as Dalton, an apparently world-famous bouncer (and NYU philosophy major) rumored to have "balls big enough to come in a dump truck."

Dalton has been hired to deal with the group of "40-year-old adolescents, felons, power drinkers and trustees of modern chemistry"* who have been hurting business at a rural Missouri bar known as the Double Deuce.
Once hired, he makes some drastic changes to the way the bar operates.
He makes it clear right from the beginning: "I'm telling you straight: it's my way, or the highway."

He has only three rules:

"Rule #1:" wrote:

Never underestimate your opponent.
Expect the unexpected.

"Rule #2:" wrote:

Take it outside. Never start anything inside the bar unless it's absolutely necessary.

"Rule #3:" wrote:

Dalton: "Be nice. If somebody gets in your face and calls you a co*I love to do what I just said*er, I want you to be nice. Ask him to walk. Be nice. If he won't walk, walk him. But be nice. If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you, and you'll both be nice. I want you to remember that it's a job. It's nothing personal. ... I want you to be nice, until it's time not to be nice."

Guy: "Well, uh, how are we supposed to know when that is?"

Dalton: "You won't. I'll let you know. You are the bouncers. I am the cooler. All you have to do is watch my back, and each others', and take out the trash."

Note how, in explaining the third rule, he also establishes a clear hierarchy of responsibilities (thus inadvertently adding a fourth rule, but that's neither here nor there) - he is the "cooler," and is responsible for knowing what to do.
As bouncers, they must work together as a team, with everyone filling their designated role.

The next night, Dalton successfully cleans the bar of ruffians and fat, drunk rednecks.
The night after that, the bar is inexplicably filled to capacity, despite the fact that it is in a rural town of roughly 800 people.
The way the Vikings are playing right now is similar to the way the Double Deuce was able to attract the patronage of every man, woman, and child within 50 miles.

That's the beauty of Road House - I find myself applying it to everyday life.
If you haven't seen Road House, buy or rent a copy IMMEDIATELY.
Come on, don't be too stupid to have a good time!
I promise, you WILL believe that Patrick Swayze can rip a man's throat out!


* Did I mention that Road House is one of the most quotable movies in history?

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 05:34 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


After todays performance I wonder if the writer wants to change his "Off the record" comments or at least go ask the players he (supposidely) got the quotes from if they have changed thier tune.

I still contend that at least someone in the front office would/should have wanted Garcia.
Maybe the staff (i.e Bryzcheapski and ownership) and the front office lowballed a offer to him.


To actually believe that the Vikings would basically go into the 2007 season as a throw away season, this would have to have been a total staff decision based on nothing more than the assumption that TJ would struggle and he would loose us games, fans would get pissed, ticket sales would dropp off etc etc etc.

Alot of stuff is said about the Chiller being a hard head and the perception that he wanted to go into the season with a 1-AA QB of TJ's caliber as his QB this year but I am not buying it no matter what quote people put in front of me.
I might be proven wrong on that, and maybe the Chiller did think TJ could win this year (He is 6-2) but I doubt it.

Again, long story short, I believe the front office (and not just the Chiller) went into this season counting this as a throw away developmental year.


Exactly.
Going into this year they said that "this year will be to see if tjack is the QB of the future" so.. yea

Marrdro
12-02-2007, 05:35 PM
"BBQ" wrote:


Earlier this season, I compared Chilly to President Bush in his dogged insistence on doing things HIS way.
Right now, however, he reminds me more of Patrick Swayze in the movie Road House.

In case you're unfamiliar with Road House, it is unquestionably the greatest movie ever made.
It runs 114 mind-blowing, jiggly butt-kicking minutes, roughly 113 of which consist of bar fights or some other variety of jiggly butt-kickery.
The engaging, heart-poundingly dramatic storyline features Patrick Swayze as Dalton, an apparently world-famous bouncer (and NYU philosophy major) rumored to have "balls big enough to come in a dump truck."

Dalton has been hired to deal with the group of "40-year-old adolescents, felons, power drinkers and trustees of modern chemistry"* who have been hurting business at a rural Missouri bar known as the Double Deuce.
Once hired, he makes some drastic changes to the way the bar operates.
He makes it clear right from the beginning: "I'm telling you straight: it's my way, or the highway."

He has only three rules:

"Rule #1:" wrote:

Never underestimate your opponent.
Expect the unexpected.

"Rule #2:" wrote:

Take it outside. Never start anything inside the bar unless it's absolutely necessary.

"Rule #3:" wrote:

Dalton: "Be nice. If somebody gets in your face and calls you a co*I love to do what I just said*er, I want you to be nice. Ask him to walk. Be nice. If he won't walk, walk him. But be nice. If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you, and you'll both be nice. I want you to remember that it's a job. It's nothing personal. ... I want you to be nice, until it's time not to be nice."

Guy: "Well, uh, how are we supposed to know when that is?"

Dalton: "You won't. I'll let you know. You are the bouncers. I am the cooler. All you have to do is watch my back, and each others', and take out the trash."

Note how, in explaining the third rule, he also establishes a clear hierarchy of responsibilities - he is the "cooler," and is responsible for knowing what to do.
As bouncers, they must work together as a team, with everyone filling their designated role.

The next night, Dalton successfully cleans the bar of ruffians and fat, drunk rednecks.
The night after that, the bar is inexplicably filled to capacity, despite the fact that it is in a rural town of roughly 800 people.
The way the Vikings are playing right now is similar to the way the Double Deuce was able to attract the patronage of every man, woman, and child within 50 miles.

That's the beauty of Road House - I find myself applying it to everyday life.
If you haven't seen Road House, buy or rent a copy IMMEDIATELY.
Come on, don't be too stupid to have a good time!
I promise, you WILL believe that Patrick Swayze can rip a man's throat out!


* Did I mention that Road House is one of the most quotable movies in history?

Very nice post my friend.
Very nice indeed.

Marrdro
12-02-2007, 05:36 PM
"Vikes_King" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


After todays performance I wonder if the writer wants to change his "Off the record" comments or at least go ask the players he (supposidely) got the quotes from if they have changed thier tune.

I still contend that at least someone in the front office would/should have wanted Garcia.
Maybe the staff (i.e Bryzcheapski and ownership) and the front office lowballed a offer to him.


To actually believe that the Vikings would basically go into the 2007 season as a throw away season, this would have to have been a total staff decision based on nothing more than the assumption that TJ would struggle and he would loose us games, fans would get pissed, ticket sales would dropp off etc etc etc.

Alot of stuff is said about the Chiller being a hard head and the perception that he wanted to go into the season with a 1-AA QB of TJ's caliber as his QB this year but I am not buying it no matter what quote people put in front of me.
I might be proven wrong on that, and maybe the Chiller did think TJ could win this year (He is 6-2) but I doubt it.

Again, long story short, I believe the front office (and not just the Chiller) went into this season counting this as a throw away developmental year.


Exactly.
Going into this year they said that "this year will be to see if tjack is the QB of the future" so.. yea

Not only TJ but alot of youngsters my friend.

;D

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 05:38 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


Earlier this season, I compared Chilly to President Bush in his dogged insistence on doing things HIS way.
Right now, however, he reminds me more of Patrick Swayze in the movie Road House.

In case you're unfamiliar with Road House, it is unquestionably the greatest movie ever made.
It runs 114 mind-blowing, jiggly butt-kicking minutes, roughly 113 of which consist of bar fights or some other variety of jiggly butt-kickery.
The engaging, heart-poundingly dramatic storyline features Patrick Swayze as Dalton, an apparently world-famous bouncer (and NYU philosophy major) rumored to have "balls big enough to come in a dump truck."

Dalton has been hired to deal with the group of "40-year-old adolescents, felons, power drinkers and trustees of modern chemistry"* who have been hurting business at a rural Missouri bar known as the Double Deuce.
Once hired, he makes some drastic changes to the way the bar operates.
He makes it clear right from the beginning: "I'm telling you straight: it's my way, or the highway."

He has only three rules:

"Rule #1:" wrote:

Never underestimate your opponent.
Expect the unexpected.

"Rule #2:" wrote:

Take it outside. Never start anything inside the bar unless it's absolutely necessary.

"Rule #3:" wrote:

Dalton: "Be nice. If somebody gets in your face and calls you a co*I love to do what I just said*er, I want you to be nice. Ask him to walk. Be nice. If he won't walk, walk him. But be nice. If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you, and you'll both be nice. I want you to remember that it's a job. It's nothing personal. ... I want you to be nice, until it's time not to be nice."

Guy: "Well, uh, how are we supposed to know when that is?"

Dalton: "You won't. I'll let you know. You are the bouncers. I am the cooler. All you have to do is watch my back, and each others', and take out the trash."

Note how, in explaining the third rule, he also establishes a clear hierarchy of responsibilities - he is the "cooler," and is responsible for knowing what to do.
As bouncers, they must work together as a team, with everyone filling their designated role.

The next night, Dalton successfully cleans the bar of ruffians and fat, drunk rednecks.
The night after that, the bar is inexplicably filled to capacity, despite the fact that it is in a rural town of roughly 800 people.
The way the Vikings are playing right now is similar to the way the Double Deuce was able to attract the patronage of every man, woman, and child within 50 miles.

That's the beauty of Road House - I find myself applying it to everyday life.
If you haven't seen Road House, buy or rent a copy IMMEDIATELY.
Come on, don't be too stupid to have a good time!
I promise, you WILL believe that Patrick Swayze can rip a man's throat out!


* Did I mention that Road House is one of the most quotable movies in history?

Very nice post my friend.
Very nice indeed.


awesome analogy BBQ, i loved it lol

& Marrdo said it was a good post, so it had to be

vikesfargo
12-02-2007, 05:45 PM
A couple more points.

Like someone else said, regardless of what people thought about TJack before, the man is 6-2 so far as an NFL starter.

If we began the season as a "developmental year," that's history. Right now we are in the thick of the playoff chase.

No doubt. Let's give the Pukes a massive ass-whoppin' next year.

In the article, Troy Williamson sounded very alienated. I hope Coach Childress goes the extra mile to mend fences. TWill is still very, very young, very, very fast, and has a major upside. He's already shown he can progress by taking on the challenge of his vision. He is not making huge money, and he will be key at WR, whether that is starting or a #3 or even #4. Yes we drafted him at #7 overall, but that was simply based on his 40-yard dash time. At this point, we should do all we can to keep our #1 picks, and TWill can be a contributor for many years to come. Mend fences, Coach!

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 05:48 PM
I am glad that TWill was out this week since Allison had a .. 34? yard catch, and a KO TD.
But I agree VF, i want to see TWill on the team too, i think he could be a potentially powerful WR

nephilimstorm
12-02-2007, 06:02 PM
I am sorry but I think Twill might be trade bait in my mind...just maybe.
But I wish he'd get his poop in gear

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 06:06 PM
"Nephilim" wrote:


I am sorry but I think Twill might be trade bait in my mind...just maybe.
But I wish he'd get his poop in gear


we wouldnt get anything for him really

V4L
12-02-2007, 06:09 PM
I highly doubt anyone would take T-will and his high salary

Some people label him as a bust

Personally I always figured he wouldn't be too great.. Too raw and didn't actually how that much is college except speed

However I do think he could develop into a solid number 2 given the right circumstances

BleedinPandG
12-02-2007, 06:10 PM
"Nephilim" wrote:


I am sorry but I think Twill might be trade bait in my mind...just maybe.
But I wish he'd get his poop in gear


He doesn't have the stats to trade, we'll keep him as a kick returner or insurance.
We have a young receiving corp, if they continue to develop as a group and with TJack, we could be just fine.
Other then a few defensive positions, we are stock full of young talent that could keep this team very competitive for the next 5 years... making the playoffs this year is just the first step in a team that could dominate over the course of the next several seasons.

realviking
12-02-2007, 06:20 PM
What is TWill's salary?
And when is his contract up?

V4L
12-02-2007, 06:26 PM
Google my friend..

lakehubertviking
12-02-2007, 06:45 PM
"BBQ" wrote:


That's the beauty of Road House - I find myself applying it to everyday life.
If you haven't seen Road House, buy or rent a copy IMMEDIATELY.
Come on, don't be too stupid to have a good time!
I promise, you WILL believe that Patrick Swayze can rip a man's throat out!



I tried to rent it and only found Road House 2 at the local video store. http://images.blockbuster.com/is/amg/dvd/cov150/drt800/t817/t81709scyal.jpg?

Will I be able to learn any important lessons from this long awaited sequel?
Will I walk away thinking that Jake Busey is a bad ass?
Wait never mind, I don't want you to ruin it for me. :)

Freya
12-02-2007, 07:02 PM
"I believe the Troy Williamson situation brought the locker room tighter together," Smith said, "because when it first came out, (we) as players felt, 'Not only is the outside world against us, there are people inside this building against us.' So for us to fight through, we need to be together, and I think that's what happened."

This statement is very interesting.
A bonding of sorts.

however the unity of purpose is achieved is irrelevant. That it IS achieved and maintained, is.

Marrdro
12-02-2007, 07:06 PM
"Freya" wrote:



"I believe the Troy Williamson situation brought the locker room tighter together," Smith said, "because when it first came out, (we) as players felt, 'Not only is the outside world against us, there are people inside this building against us.' So for us to fight through, we need to be together, and I think that's what happened."

This statement is very interesting.
A bonding of sorts.

however the unity of purpose is achieved is irrelevant. That it IS achieved and maintained, is.

You are wise beyond your years young lady.
;D

Save me a google search, were did you get that quote?

vikesfargo
12-02-2007, 07:08 PM
News report (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/10/vikings.williamson.ap/index.html)
The Vikings wanted the wide receiver back sooner, though, and docked him one paycheck for his absence -- which amounted to more than $25,000 of his $435,000 base salary.

In other words, TWill is making a base salary of $435,000. His days of earning #7 overall draft pick money are gone. We picked him too high. He is NOT a bust. He is not a replacement for Randy Moss or any fanciful crap like that. He is a solid WR who is still very, very young and way too young to give up on. He is also very fast, and a very hard worker. He has a big upside. Mend fences with him, coach!

V4L
12-02-2007, 07:11 PM
"vikesfargo" wrote:


News report (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/10/vikings.williamson.ap/index.html)
The Vikings wanted the wide receiver back sooner, though, and docked him one paycheck for his absence -- which amounted to more than $25,000 of his $435,000 base salary.

In other words, TWill is making a base salary of $435,000. His days of earning #7 overall draft pick money are gone. We picked him too high. He is NOT a bust. He is not a replacement for Randy Moss or any fanciful crap like that. He is a solid WR who is still very, very young and way too young to give up on. He is also very fast, and a very hard worker. He has a big upside. Mend fences with him, coach!




I agree 100 percent

Probably not worth where we picked him.. We could have got him with our other pick

But whatever.. That doesn't matter anymore

I think he could develop into a solid number.. Maybe in a few years and if he can stay on the field and get a solid connection with T-jack

Freya
12-02-2007, 07:14 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Freya" wrote:



"I believe the Troy Williamson situation brought the locker room tighter together," Smith said, "because when it first came out, (we) as players felt, 'Not only is the outside world against us, there are people inside this building against us.' So for us to fight through, we need to be together, and I think that's what happened."

This statement is very interesting.
A bonding of sorts.

however the unity of purpose is achieved is irrelevant. That it IS achieved and maintained, is.

You are wise beyond your years young lady.
;D

Save me a google search, were did you get that quote?


Aw, you flatter me, Darlin.
;D

I just made that up. Perhaps I should google it just to make sure I didn't steal it without due credit given. :o

I am happy you liked it. I like what it is doing for the team!

Marrdro
12-02-2007, 07:29 PM
"Freya" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Freya" wrote:



"I believe the Troy Williamson situation brought the locker room tighter together," Smith said, "because when it first came out, (we) as players felt, 'Not only is the outside world against us, there are people inside this building against us.' So for us to fight through, we need to be together, and I think that's what happened."

This statement is very interesting.
A bonding of sorts.

however the unity of purpose is achieved is irrelevant. That it IS achieved and maintained, is.

You are wise beyond your years young lady.
;D

Save me a google search, were did you get that quote?


Aw, you flatter me, Darlin.
;D

I just made that up. Perhaps I should google it just to make sure I didn't steal it without due credit given. :o

I am happy you liked it. I like what it is doing for the team!



I just kicked the Hammer to the curb.
Check out my sig.
;D

BBQ Platypus
12-03-2007, 10:40 AM
"lakehubertviking" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


That's the beauty of Road House - I find myself applying it to everyday life.
If you haven't seen Road House, buy or rent a copy IMMEDIATELY.
Come on, don't be too stupid to have a good time!
I promise, you WILL believe that Patrick Swayze can rip a man's throat out!



I tried to rent it and only found Road House 2 at the local video store. http://images.blockbuster.com/is/amg/dvd/cov150/drt800/t817/t81709scyal.jpg?

Will I be able to learn any important lessons from this long awaited sequel?
Will I walk away thinking that Jake Busey is a bad jiggly butt?
Wait never mind, I don't want you to ruin it for me. :)


Well, it just isn't the same without the Swayze-monster.
I can't think of a Christmas without the Swayze.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ZyJCV_dyug

Long story short, it's not Road House if Patrick Swayze isn't in it.

cogitans
12-03-2007, 11:02 AM
"BBQ" wrote:


"lakehubertviking" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


That's the beauty of Road House - I find myself applying it to everyday life.
If you haven't seen Road House, buy or rent a copy IMMEDIATELY.
Come on, don't be too stupid to have a good time!
I promise, you WILL believe that Patrick Swayze can rip a man's throat out!



I tried to rent it and only found Road House 2 at the local video store. http://images.blockbuster.com/is/amg/dvd/cov150/drt800/t817/t81709scyal.jpg?

Will I be able to learn any important lessons from this long awaited sequel?
Will I walk away thinking that Jake Busey is a bad jiggly butt?
Wait never mind, I don't want you to ruin it for me. :)


Well, it just isn't the same without the Swayze-monster.
I can't think of a Christmas without the Swayze.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ZyJCV_dyug

Long story short, it's not Road House if Patrick Swayze isn't in it.

You need only put in what's after the '=' in the youtube code. Like this:

2ZyJCV_dyug

jessejames09
12-03-2007, 11:21 AM
"vikesfargo" wrote:


News report (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/10/vikings.williamson.ap/index.html)
The Vikings wanted the wide receiver back sooner, though, and docked him one paycheck for his absence -- which amounted to more than $25,000 of his $435,000 base salary.

In other words, TWill is making a base salary of $435,000. His days of earning #7 overall draft pick money are gone. We picked him too high. He is NOT a bust. He is not a replacement for Randy Moss or any fanciful crap like that. He is a solid WR who is still very, very young and way too young to give up on. He is also very fast, and a very hard worker. He has a big upside. Mend fences with him, coach!



Troy is not a bust?? But we picked him too high?? I thought picking someone too high meant they were a bust.


Anywho, the numbers don't lie, If these numbers don't scream 'bust' than Ryan Leaf had a fairly good NFL career.








+--------------------------+-------------------------+








|




Rushing



|



Receiving



|
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year
TM |
G |
Att
Yards

Y/A
TD |
Rec
Yards
Y/R
TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 2005 min |
14 |

3

28

9.3

0 |

24

372
15.5

2 |
| 2006 min |
14 |

0


0

0.0

0 |

37

455
12.3

0 |
| 2007 min |
9 |

2

29
14.5

0 |

13

201
15.5

1 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
|
TOTAL
|
37 |

5

57
11.4

0 |

74
1028
13.9

3 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

1000 yards and 3 tds over 2.5 seasons!! OMG I just pooped myself in excitement! Who says we need another WR?!


As for Troy coming cheap. Rob B. knows how to pay the player their dues and keep their salary to a minimum.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=3131
Troy has a 7 year 32 Million dollar contract.

That works out to 4.5 million a year, including incentives. But we all know troy hasn't earn a single incentive unless there was a bonus for 'drops' last season.

Generally speaking NFL contracts pay more as time goes on. This is called back loading a contract.
It's pretty common for rookie players. That way if the team wants to resign the player they will do so with a year or 2 left on the players contract as to avoid the high cap in the last 2 years. It's a win-win for team and player.

All I want for Christmas is for TW to get cut. (And chilly doesn't mind cutting people on Christmas.)

bleedpurple
12-03-2007, 11:52 AM
Can we see T-dub play a game with TJack playing the way he's playing before we cut the guy... obviously he's playing better and not dropping as many balls... so it behoves us to see what he can do before we off and cut a guy..

Plus, who do we have that's really a whole lot better?
Fergie?? NO!!
Maybe Rice.. and Allison but we havent' seen much of him...

Remember Bobby Wade?
dude sucked for like ..... ever!!! and now he's decent... still not a big fan.. I think Tdub is better...

We just have to see what he can do once all our moving parts are together...

And you'll probably notice, the same people on here that want to cutt Twill are the same goofballs that wanted TJ benched three weeks ago and us to draft another rookie QB only to say the same thing about him 10 games later....

It makes no sense...

Marrdro
12-03-2007, 11:56 AM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


Can we see T-dub play a game with TJack playing the way he's playing before we cut the guy... obviously he's playing better and not dropping as many balls... so it behoves us to see what he can do before we off and cut a guy..

Plus, who do we have that's really a whole lot better?
Fergie?? NO!!
Maybe Rice.. and Allison but we havent' seen much of him...

Remember Bobby Wade?
dude sucked for like ..... ever!!! and now he's decent... still not a big fan.. I think Tdub is better...

We just have to see what he can do once all our moving parts are together...

And you'll probably notice, the same people on here that want to cutt Twill are the same goofballs that wanted TJ benched three weeks ago and us to draft another rookie QB only to say the same thing about him 10 games later....

It makes no sense...

Didn't I warn you about trying to make sense of things in one of your earlier posts.
;D

I still say that even if T-will becomes a very good WR and scores TD after TD he will always have a blemish next to his name as alot of people on here tie him automatically to Moss.

Could he be better, hell yes, but damn, it isn't like we are any semblence of the team that chucked it deep every other play.

I would much rather keep him on the roster than Fergyyyyy.

jessejames09
12-03-2007, 11:57 AM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


Can we see T-dub play a game with TJack playing the way he's playing before we cut the guy... obviously he's playing better and not dropping as many balls... so it behoves us to see what he can do before we off and cut a guy..

Plus, who do we have that's really a whole lot better?
Fergie?? NO!!
Maybe Rice.. and Allison but we havent' seen much of him...

Remember Bobby Wade?
dude sucked for like ..... ever!!! and now he's decent... still not a big fan.. I think Tdub is better...

We just have to see what he can do once all our moving parts are together...

And you'll probably notice, the same people on here that want to cutt Twill are the same goofballs that wanted TJ benched three weeks ago and us to draft another rookie QB only to say the same thing about him 10 games later....

It makes no sense...


Find my post from 3 weeks ago where i said bench tj. Right the fuck now.

You'll also notice that goofballs who want to baby troy and try to turn him into a receiver are also more prone to molest baby animals.

Now we are both lying out our asses!

bleedpurple
12-03-2007, 12:09 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


Can we see T-dub play a game with TJack playing the way he's playing before we cut the guy... obviously he's playing better and not dropping as many balls... so it behoves us to see what he can do before we off and cut a guy..

Plus, who do we have that's really a whole lot better?
Fergie?? NO!!
Maybe Rice.. and Allison but we havent' seen much of him...

Remember Bobby Wade?
dude sucked for like ..... ever!!! and now he's decent... still not a big fan.. I think Tdub is better...

We just have to see what he can do once all our moving parts are together...

And you'll probably notice, the same people on here that want to cutt Twill are the same goofballs that wanted TJ benched three weeks ago and us to draft another rookie QB only to say the same thing about him 10 games later....

It makes no sense...


Find my post from 3 weeks ago where i said bench tj. Right the floop now.

You'll also notice that goofballs who want to baby troy and try to turn him into a receiver are also more prone to molest baby animals.

Now we are both lying out our dimply buttocks!


Since you feel the need to defend a TJ post, then you just told on yourself... as i wasnt mentioning anybody...specifically....

Regardless, of such, I'm not sure where your going with the molesting of baby animals, hey to each is own... whatever floats ur boat!!

Nobody is saying baby TWill, but we are saying see what the dude has with a guy that can get him the ball.... you can't teach speed... but you can teach route running and apparently catching the ball.... however few times he's been thrown to...

that one pass that Rice threw to him where he picked up off the turf and made a great diving catch says to me that he's concentrating better....and perpaps has learned how to catch the ball...

I still don't see him dropping passes (this year) like T.O. or even Calvin Johnson... Now I bet you'd be talking let's cut Calvin Johnson, he's a bust.. since he's dropped like 6 balls over the last two-three weeks...

and that's why posts like that will always be criticised because it makes as much sense as ur fondiling of baby animals comment...

jessejames09
12-03-2007, 12:26 PM
And you'll probably notice, the same people on here that want to cutt Twill are the same goofballs that wanted TJ benched three weeks ago and us to draft another rookie QB only to say the same thing about him 10 games later....

I was the only person talking about cutting TW in this thread? So who were you referring to?




I mean do you live in MN or have sunday ticket? I'd like to see the correlation between how many games people watched last year and how much they like TW.

Because last year I literally wanted him dead. (i know thats too far sorry mods) This year he is good enough to be a 4th or 5th receiver but he really shouldn't be a starter, which he was.

Now that he is good enough to be a mediocre player in the league you have to ask yourself, is he worth $4.5M a year. That's why he gets cut this off season.

I don't care how fast he is. If he is 20 something years old and still catches the ball against his body 90% of the time he is a bust.

bleedpurple
12-03-2007, 12:43 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:




And you'll probably notice, the same people on here that want to cutt Twill are the same goofballs that wanted TJ benched three weeks ago and us to draft another rookie QB only to say the same thing about him 10 games later....

I was the only person talking about cutting TW in this thread? So who were you referring to?




I mean do you live in MN or have sunday ticket? I'd like to see the correlation between how many games people watched last year and how much they like TW.

Because last year I literally wanted him dead. (i know thats too far sorry mods) This year he is good enough to be a 4th or 5th receiver but he really shouldn't be a starter, which he was.

Now that he is good enough to be a mediocre player in the league you have to ask yourself, is he worth $4.5M a year. That's why he gets cut this off season.

I don't care how fast he is. If he is 20 something years old and still catches the ball against his body 90% of the time he is a bust.


Well, i was referring to other threads as well, it had more to do with a culmination of Twill bashing, you probably just got the brunt of it due to the thread, so i wasn't singling you out!!

WIth that said, NO i've never been to minnesota actually.. although, i'd like to one of these days for sure to see a game.. but i do have the ticket, specifically to see all the games, and when they play washington i go to see them..

First, of all, i don't think you cutt a guy just because he makes XXX amount of money... you either ask him for a pay cut or when his contract is up, offer him Fair market value.. i hate the fact, that when your underperformijng a contract, they can cut you but when you outperform they wont give you the raise you need... let him play out his contract.. Chilly see's him in practice everyday so to say he's a 4th or 5th guy i seriously doubt chilly would start him with his job on the line...

with that said, we're waaaay under the cap anyway, so if he develops in time so what!!! it's not like we're overpaying Bwade and a few others on the team...

and i'm sorry but i don't give a damn whether you catch the ball against your body, with your legs, feet, hands, mouth, shoot for all i care you can catch the ball in your butt crack as long as he catches the ball and moves the chains...

sometimes yu have to catch the ball against your body depending on the angle and where the ball is placed... or how hard the Qb throws the ball... so to say he's a bust bc he catches the ball is ridiculous..

especially since you missed a KEY word in your statement.. .he caught the effin ball!!!!!

Purple D
12-03-2007, 12:46 PM
TW will always be a Bust in most Vikings Fan's Eyes because he was picked with the pick aquired in the Moss trade.
He was never going to be able to replace Moss and no one may ever be able to replace his explosiveness at the WR spot.
But TW still has the ability to be a good receiver in this league just not a great one.
He seems to have his pass dropping under control compared to last year.
He was probably picked too high in the draft for his ability, but the Vikings needed to pick a receiver to satisfy the fans that year and they should of traded that pick for more picks.
That was also
a Tice pick.


Allison will probably knock TW down the depth Chart though.
Allison has shown promise and the ability to run after the catch.
I would like to see him more often.
Does anyone know who the fastest receiver we have on this team is?
TW was and I am not sure if he is anymore.
I think he would be good to keep around at a cheaper price.
Just not for 4.5 million.

bleedpurple
12-03-2007, 12:53 PM
"Purple" wrote:


TW will always be a Bust in most Vikings Fan's Eyes because he was picked with the pick aquired in the Moss trade.

He was never going to be able to replace Moss and no one may ever be able to replace his explosiveness at the WR spot.
But TW still has the ability to be a good receiver in this league just not a great one.

He seems to have his pass dropping under control compared to last year.
He was probably picked too high in the draft for his ability, but the Vikings needed to pick a receiver to satisfy the fans that year and they should of traded that pick for more picks.
That was also
a Tice pick.



Allison will probably knock TW down the depth Chart though.
Allison has shown promise and the ability to run after the catch.

I would like to see him more often.
Does anyone know who the fastest receiver we have on this team is?
TW was and I am not sure if he is anymore.

I think he would be good to keep around at a cheaper price.
Just not for 4.5 million.




no i agree with you which is a shame and not necessarily Twil's fault... we should have gotten Demarcus Ware or Merriman or Carlos Rogers with that pick then looked at Clayton or Roddy White with the other pick.. but hindsight is 20-20 and coulda bee's / shoulda bee's /woulda bee's dont make no honey!!!

jessejames09
12-03-2007, 01:02 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:




And you'll probably notice, the same people on here that want to cutt Twill are the same goofballs that wanted TJ benched three weeks ago and us to draft another rookie QB only to say the same thing about him 10 games later....

I was the only person talking about cutting TW in this thread? So who were you referring to?




I mean do you live in MN or have sunday ticket? I'd like to see the correlation between how many games people watched last year and how much they like TW.

Because last year I literally wanted him dead. (i know thats too far sorry mods) This year he is good enough to be a 4th or 5th receiver but he really shouldn't be a starter, which he was.

Now that he is good enough to be a mediocre player in the league you have to ask yourself, is he worth $4.5M a year. That's why he gets cut this off season.

I don't care how fast he is. If he is 20 something years old and still catches the ball against his body 90% of the time he is a bust.


Well, i was referring to other threads as well, it had more to do with a culmination of Twill bashing, you probably just got the brunt of it due to the thread, so i wasn't singling you out!!

WIth that said, NO i've never been to minnesota actually.. although, i'd like to one of these days for sure to see a game.. but i do have the ticket, specifically to see all the games, and when they play washington i go to see them..

First, of all, i don't think you cutt a guy just because he makes XXX amount of money... you either ask him for a pay cut or when his contract is up, offer him Fair market value.. i hate the fact, that when your underperformijng a contract, they can cut you but when you outperform they wont give you the raise you need... let him play out his contract.. Chilly see's him in practice everyday so to say he's a 4th or 5th guy i seriously doubt chilly would start him with his job on the line...

with that said, we're waaaay under the cap anyway, so if he develops in time so what!!! it's not like we're overpaying Bwade and a few others on the team...

and i'm sorry but i don't give a damn whether you catch the ball against your body, with your legs, feet, hands, mouth, shoot for all i care you can catch the ball in your butt crack as long as he catches the ball and moves the chains...

sometimes yu have to catch the ball against your body depending on the angle and where the ball is placed... or how hard the Qb throws the ball... so to say he's a bust bc he catches the ball is ridiculous..

especially since you missed a KEY word in your statement.. .he caught the effin ball!!!!!




I guess want the vikings players to do things properly is all. I'm pretty sure their is a reason players are taught to catch the ball with their hands. I'll take a crack at it.

- The ball won't bounce off your body. If it bounces your chances of catching it go down. (footballs aren't spheres, you don't want it to hit your chest as it could go any which direction)

-If you catch the ball with your hands it's much easier to keep on running and not miss a stride. When TW catches the ball his YAC seems to be lacking




But this is my last post in this thread. If you have any further complaints this is my response;

Yeah T-Dub is a bona fide play-maker. I can't believe he fell to #7 in the draft. :o.

vikesfargo
12-03-2007, 01:15 PM
I doubt that TWill is going to get some huge bonus check. His production just isn't there. Most likely at age 22 he wants to continue playing in the NFL. Bonuses and salaries can be renegotiated.

TWill has great athletic gifts. He has blazing, gamebreaking speed. He also has a lot of guts. Sure he did wrong by not notifying Childress where he was. He is just 22, his world fell out from under him, and he probably feels bad about not living up to the unrealistic expectations that were placed on him.

I hope that TWill and Coach Childress can see past all this and focus on the future with TWilll in a Vikings uniform. He is 22 and he can still learn to catch with his hands.

Having a speedster WR like TWill as the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th option will be a bonus, especially if he is earning the appropriate amount of money.

Two big advantages to keeping TWill: (1) if he lives up to his potential, he will be very good, (2) the chance to overcome adversity and succeed where people had written him off.

I am a fan of Troy Williamson. I see no reason to let him go. I say keep this 22-year-old and keep developing him.

Marrdro
12-03-2007, 01:38 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:




And you'll probably notice, the same people on here that want to cutt Twill are the same goofballs that wanted TJ benched three weeks ago and us to draft another rookie QB only to say the same thing about him 10 games later....

I was the only person talking about cutting TW in this thread? So who were you referring to?




I mean do you live in MN or have sunday ticket? I'd like to see the correlation between how many games people watched last year and how much they like TW.

Because last year I literally wanted him dead. (i know thats too far sorry mods) This year he is good enough to be a 4th or 5th receiver but he really shouldn't be a starter, which he was.

Now that he is good enough to be a mediocre player in the league you have to ask yourself, is he worth $4.5M a year. That's why he gets cut this off season.

I don't care how fast he is. If he is 20 something years old and still catches the ball against his body 90% of the time he is a bust.


Well, i was referring to other threads as well, it had more to do with a culmination of Twill bashing, you probably just got the brunt of it due to the thread, so i wasn't singling you out!!

WIth that said, NO i've never been to minnesota actually.. although, i'd like to one of these days for sure to see a game.. but i do have the ticket, specifically to see all the games, and when they play washington i go to see them..

First, of all, i don't think you cutt a guy just because he makes XXX amount of money... you either ask him for a pay cut or when his contract is up, offer him Fair market value.. i hate the fact, that when your underperformijng a contract, they can cut you but when you outperform they wont give you the raise you need... let him play out his contract.. Chilly see's him in practice everyday so to say he's a 4th or 5th guy i seriously doubt chilly would start him with his job on the line...

with that said, we're waaaay under the cap anyway, so if he develops in time so what!!! it's not like we're overpaying Bwade and a few others on the team...

and i'm sorry but i don't give a gol 'darnit whether you catch the ball against your body, with your legs, feet, hands, mouth, shoot for all i care you can catch the ball in your butt crack as long as he catches the ball and moves the chains...

sometimes yu have to catch the ball against your body depending on the angle and where the ball is placed... or how hard the Qb throws the ball... so to say he's a bust bc he catches the ball is ridiculous..

especially since you missed a KEY word in your statement.. .he caught the effin ball!!!!!




I guess want the vikings players to do things properly is all. I'm pretty sure their is a reason players are taught to catch the ball with their hands. I'll take a crack at it.

- The ball won't bounce off your body. If it bounces your chances of catching it go down. (footballs aren't spheres, you don't want it to hit your chest as it could go any which direction)

-If you catch the ball with your hands it's much easier to keep on running and not miss a stride. When TW catches the ball his YAC seems to be lacking




But this is my last post in this thread. If you have any further complaints this is my response;

Yeah T-Dub is a bona fide play-maker. I can't believe he fell to #7 in the draft. :o.



JJ I don't think you would/could find any sane poster on here who would (in thier right mind at least) say that T-will was anywere close to a worth while selection at 7.
Heck, you might be hard pressed to find anyone (except for a few hangers on) who would argue with you if you tried to convince them that the last regime sucked at drafting, however,

Like it or not, they wasted a pick on this guy.
It has only been 3 years and a rocky 3 at that.
Most of us, are crossing our fingers, our toes, and eyes, just hoping that we are wrong and that he will be a servicable/above average reciever in this league for the rest of his contract OR.......

Until someone come along that is better either via FA or next years draft.

But a fact of the matter is, WR that are gonna produce right off the start (ala Colston) don't just fall from the heavens.
In fact I can only think of 3 and one of them might just be on our staff right now today, if he had a better QB throwing it to him.

I for one (ever the optimist) am willing to let him stay on the roster, return kicks, cover on special teams, what ever, to see if the potential is there.
Until our Passing game gets rolling a bit more, we really don't know what we have.

Statistically he had a pretty good rookie year, a off second year and a so-so (based on our passing prowess) year this year.

Give him at least his contract my friend.
;D

Big C
12-03-2007, 01:44 PM
I have nothing against Troy, but he hasn't earned that first round paycheck any year of his career. We drafted him to be our speedy deep threat. HOWEVER HE IS NOT THAT KIND OF RECIEVER. He has shown a lot more promise as this season as a posession reciever on short routes. He will be back in 2008 fighting for the #3 WR spot.

Marrdro
12-03-2007, 01:48 PM
"Big" wrote:


I have nothing against Troy, but he hasn't earned that first round paycheck any year of his career. We drafted him to be our speedy deep threat. HOWEVER HE IS NOT THAT KIND OF RECIEVER. He has shown a lot more promise as this season as a posession reciever on short routes. He will be back in 2008 fighting for the #3 WR spot.

And we as fans shouldn't hold that against him.


Not trying to pick on you, nor is this directed at you my friend, however, Just want to use your post as a sounding board for a brief rant.....

It is damn stupid to blame him for being picked as the 7th overall pick and for accepting a offer befitting that pick by a team that basically was clueless when it came to even the basics of things with regard to running an organization or for trying to get a draft pick in on time for that matter.

Sorry, every once in a while I will speak bad about the team.
Rant off.
::)

Schutz
12-03-2007, 01:52 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


I have nothing against Troy, but he hasn't earned that first round paycheck any year of his career. We drafted him to be our speedy deep threat. HOWEVER HE IS NOT THAT KIND OF RECIEVER. He has shown a lot more promise as this season as a posession reciever on short routes. He will be back in 2008 fighting for the #3 WR spot.

And we as fans shouldn't hold that against him.


Not trying to pick on you, nor is this directed at you my friend, however, Just want to use your post as a sounding board for a brief rant.....

It is gol 'darnit stupid to blame him for being picked as the 7th overall pick and for accepting a offer befitting that pick by a team that basically was clueless when it came to even the basics of things with regard to running an organization or for trying to get a draft pick in on time for that matter.

Sorry, every once in a while I will speak bad about the team.
Rant off.
::)


No Mar, TWill was supposed to be able to look into the future and after seeing that he wasn't going to be an NFL #1 Receiver call up the NFL and tell them "No man, don't pay me, I'm not that good, I've seen into the future."

Jeeze, how dumb are you.

Marrdro
12-03-2007, 02:10 PM
"Schutz" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


I have nothing against Troy, but he hasn't earned that first round paycheck any year of his career. We drafted him to be our speedy deep threat. HOWEVER HE IS NOT THAT KIND OF RECIEVER. He has shown a lot more promise as this season as a posession reciever on short routes. He will be back in 2008 fighting for the #3 WR spot.

And we as fans shouldn't hold that against him.


Not trying to pick on you, nor is this directed at you my friend, however, Just want to use your post as a sounding board for a brief rant.....

It is gol 'darnit stupid to blame him for being picked as the 7th overall pick and for accepting a offer befitting that pick by a team that basically was clueless when it came to even the basics of things with regard to running an organization or for trying to get a draft pick in on time for that matter.

Sorry, every once in a while I will speak bad about the team.
Rant off.

::)


No Mar, TWill was supposed to be able to look into the future and after seeing that he wasn't going to be an NFL #1 Receiver call up the NFL and tell them "No man, don't pay me, I'm not that good, I've seen into the future."

Jeeze, how dumb are you.

Hmmmm, how to take that one.

:o ::)

douginc
12-03-2007, 02:12 PM
"Schutz" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


I have nothing against Troy, but he hasn't earned that first round paycheck any year of his career. We drafted him to be our speedy deep threat. HOWEVER HE IS NOT THAT KIND OF RECIEVER. He has shown a lot more promise as this season as a posession reciever on short routes. He will be back in 2008 fighting for the #3 WR spot.

And we as fans shouldn't hold that against him.


Not trying to pick on you, nor is this directed at you my friend, however, Just want to use your post as a sounding board for a brief rant.....

It is gol 'darnit stupid to blame him for being picked as the 7th overall pick and for accepting a offer befitting that pick by a team that basically was clueless when it came to even the basics of things with regard to running an organization or for trying to get a draft pick in on time for that matter.

Sorry, every once in a while I will speak bad about the team.
Rant off.
::)


No Mar, TWill was supposed to be able to look into the future and after seeing that he wasn't going to be an NFL #1 Receiver call up the NFL and tell them "No man, don't pay me, I'm not that good, I've seen into the future."

Jeeze, how dumb are you.


You guys said it perfect.
You can never blame the person for taking, the people writing the checks have to hold the intelligence.

To Childress haters, you can't blame Childress for taking our head coaching job either if you don't think he was ready for the job.
Hell, if the Vikes organization offered any of us the head coaching job, even though I'm grossly incompetant at the inner workings of football, I'd say 'hell yes, I'm your man'.
Blame those who write the checks, not those who take them.

bleedpurple
12-03-2007, 03:41 PM
"Big" wrote:


I have nothing against Troy, but he hasn't earned that first round paycheck any year of his career. We drafted him to be our speedy deep threat. HOWEVER HE IS NOT THAT KIND OF RECIEVER. He has shown a lot more promise as this season as a posession reciever on short routes. He will be back in 2008 fighting for the #3 WR spot.


So exactly how many 1st round wide receivers earn they're paycheck the first three years.. better yet, how many are not complete busts?????

In the first round of the draft that williamson went in.. only Braylon edwards is worth of being a 1st rounder...

not: Trow WIll, not MIke Williams, not Matt Jones, Mark Clayton, and questionably Roddy White!!!

so, when you look at it, they're not many guys that are ever really worth they're draft pick.. but with that said you gotta give them time... Even TO took a few years to develop.. and remember he was drafted behind JJ stokes.... and ended up being waaaay better!!

its' funny how people want to throw some out with the bath water after a few years... Hell, everyone knew he was raw and played in a run first offense... it usually takes about 3 years for a receiver to finally get it!!!


Too bad, we don't know if he does or nor, until he plays a few games, with the new and improved TJ.....

IBleedPurple11
12-03-2007, 05:09 PM
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071203/SPORTS01/71203016/1049

Three weeks later, the Vikings are 6-6, tied for a wild-card position and Childress has become both Minnesota’s resident psychologist and the NFC’s version of Bill Belichick.

Prophet
12-04-2007, 03:08 PM
Interesting.
Sean Jensen appears to like using 'off the record' quotes to promote his rantings.
Maybe some of the supportive 'on the record' quotes should also be used, rather than supporting his agenda.


...The frustrated Vikings complained that the second-year coach disliked recruiting "star players" via free agency, that he docked Troy Williamson's pay after the receiver's grandmother died, that he entrusted a green second-year quarterback with an otherwise veteran lineup, and that he tries to control what his players say to reporters.

Still, the perturbed players said, they would stay the course....

This issue has been discussed hundreds of times on pp.o.
Just who out of the recognized name 'big-players' should they have picked up?
Maybe, just maybe, there was a plan in place that integrated the salary cap, need, direction of the team.
The FA was week this year, but there were a few that might have been nice to pick up, but, for many reasons that I'm sure the coaching staff can support, they were not.
Oh well, maybe Sean would be happier if there was a poll in their website so all the young 'uns and armchair experts could vote on which of the FAs should have been brought in.


Another of Sean's quotes, "Childress acknowledged that Garcia was discussed but never seriously considered."
What Childress actually said from a Seifert article was, ""There was enough furor over a 37-year-old quarterback [Brad Johnson] this year," Childress said. "So I'm kind of surprised [to hear about] Jeff Garcia." The plan was made, to go with the green horn and see what he has.
I didn't really agree with the plan, but, it's Childress' ass on the line, not mine.

A real quote that is 'on the record' in the article:


..."I think guys are buying into the system," Winfield said, "and appreciating the coaching that we're getting."...

It might just be me, but, that kind of seems like it is supportive of the direction the team is taking.

Sean's opinion following that quote:


...But it has been a long road to get to this point, and the strong-willed Childress has endured his ups and downs...

I guess Mr. Jensen didn't get his requisite 'reach-around' that Tice so freely gave him so he tossed in an adjective that is supposed to be demeaning.



..."I'm convinced that, in a perfect world, the way you'd like to be able to build the thing is through your draft and augment your team with free agents," Childress said. "I think the conception is, 'Oh, these guys got this much cap money, they need to spend it.' Well, you just don't want to spend it just to spend it, and you don't want to spend it frivolously.

"We've still got some business principles that we adhere to."...

Jensen whined about not getting 'big-namers' and used some 'off-the-record' quotes to support himself.
The quote from Childress in the article explains clearly, at least to me, why they didn't go after some of the 'big-namers' that some thought were the answer.
I guess I'm more likely to believe a coaching staff with over a century of professional coaching experience rather than a journalistic hack that has an agenda.

Regarding his decision to not pay Williamson, Jensen mentioned that, "But before making that decision, Childress consulted his leadership council, a panel of players he set up last season. Smith, one of the veterans on the council, applauded Childress for righting the situation."
To me that is good leadership, he made the decision, saw the repercussions, met with the veterans on the council that HE set up prior to this particular problem and righted the situation.

Childress even said:


Childress, who now can joke that it wasn't one of his "highlight" decisions, pointed out that criticism comes with his position.

"In some ways, they pay you in this job to make decisions," Childress said. "Some you make right. When you're making decision after decision after decision, you'd like to be 100 for 100. But then I'd go to Vegas and make decisions and be a rich man.

Anyone that has ever been in a management decision knows that you have to make many decisions in any given day.
Childress had the experience and vision to set-up a leadership council to help with decisions or to help get feedback on decisions.
That is good people management.

My favorite quote is Williamson, apparently on the record.


Asked about this season, Williamson said, "I don't even want to talk about that, because I can go on and on and on.

"I will just do what I can do. I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only guy that feels that way."

Williamson has done so little to gain any respect on the team that I'm sure his word carries a lot of weight.
I sure hope this guy walks the plank, he's not worth the coin and he shows signs of cancer.


...Childress discourages bulletin-board material for Vikings opponents - and any teamsensitive information, such as game plans and player injuries...

Wow, that sounds horrible doesn't it?
I wish he would give the AD ratio to the press.


...Asked about that exercise, Childress said his goal is to educate his players and ensure they don't say things they will later regret....

Being a mentor, that sounds like a good thing.
It is true that some players will say something in the heat of the moment and it will define them.
Randy Moss' comment about he'll play when he wants to play has been shoved down his throat for years after saying it.
It's a good thing to have a coach that is trying to help the players think before they speak.
Anyone that has dealt with the press knows that they will spin things and take things out of context.
A coach that warns them about this is doing his job.


....Childress said he isn't afraid to tell any of his players where they stand with him ("As long as you're not afraid to hear it, I'm not afraid to tell you," he said), but he won't simply give a disgruntled player a pass out of Winter Park.

"Everyone can say, 'I'm not happy, I want to go.' But that's not how this whole deal works," Childress said....

In general people like straight-shooters that will tell you the way it is.
Childress said he will tell any player where they stand with him, constructive criticism.
If they have a weak spine and can't handle it, then, don't ask.
Most people would rather hear from a straight shooter rather than an ass-kisser that will say one thing to their face and another thing behind their back.

Personally, I hate articles like this.
If you want to go off and define a man's character then use all the information available.
Don't be using the premise of your article on hearsay and 'off-the-record' quotes when there are plenty of 'on-the-record' quotes to work with.

Yes, winning cures everything.
I'm just not into asshats that attempt to destroy a man's character when it is based off of weak information and engulfed with opinon and an agenda.