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ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 04:10 PM
Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that shit team and Pep.

TJ
Although he showed signs of improvement, still not happy with his performance.
His decision making on the pick and the massive amount of time he wants to stand in the pocket is not a good thing.
He is money on passes 10 yards or less, but still has a problem getting it downfield.

Chilly
I am not a Chilly fan, but you have to give him credit for the gadget plays.
They worked and even got us a score.
And no, he is not a genius yet.
;)

Chester
This is an awesome RB!
I loved him last year and he is still awesome this year!
Way to go buddy!

O-Line
Awesome on the runs, still needs be a little more solid on the Pass Blocking.

Edwards & Robison
I love these guys!
They are playing great!
Both young and are gonna get better.

James
It's about damn time he gets a sack!

Run Defense
Solid once again.
Good job.

Pass Defense
Ugh. Not too happy here again.
Some really bad coverage.
Who the hell was responsible for Madsen on that TD?
Cedric is not playing well eithe, he is the new Smoot.
Mccaukley, I hope he gets a whole lot better.


Greenway
Pull you head out of your ass!
Sit on the pick, do not run it!
Jeez!

Longwell
Perfect!

Kluwe
Hitting "coffin corner"
:)

Overall
Not bad.
When we have opportunities we need to put points on the board.
The turnovers were ugly and thankfully Joakland has their own offensive woes.


Crowd
Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.

BadlandsVikings
11-18-2007, 04:11 PM
Good game, Rice should be our QB :)

Hey we aren't the Dolphins :D

GreenBaySlackers
11-18-2007, 04:12 PM
We should let Sidney Rice play QB

Vikestand
11-18-2007, 04:14 PM
Crowd looked sad.....

tgorsegner
11-18-2007, 04:15 PM
we should not have had nearly so close of a game.


oakland? they are a joke.

i guess we are too.

oh well, its a win.

go for it on 4th and 1/3 to end the game. jeez.

DustinDupont
11-18-2007, 04:20 PM
Tjack looked very good ;D loved the improvement shown... anyone that says he didnt play good, they are just haters of tjack

BBQ Platypus
11-18-2007, 04:20 PM
Hooray - we beat a crappy team by one touchdown.
Secret Squirrel gets a gold star. ::)

We certainly made our fair share of mistakes - still, the efforts of Chester Taylor and Sidney Rice (who looked more impressive as a QB than Jackson, IMO) were enough to win this one.

I really don't have much to say about this win.
Beating the Raiders is by no means an impressive feat.

El Vikingo
11-18-2007, 04:25 PM
Very fun game to watch ,here are my points.

1.CT,CT and CT.Great performance 3 Td,200 yards plus(we better get something really good If we trade him...)
2.We did move the ball!!! Around 500 yards....Good job by our Wr.
3.Rice ,this kid
is great or what?
2/2 for almost 100 yards on pass.He deserves more action.
4.The lines have improved also ,limited penalties and solid game.Special mention to EJ and Greenway.
5.TJ made some rookie mistakes but is a C ,for me.
6.This pass Defense is weak indeed,Cedric was ugly and Sharper worse.
7. The best days of Culpepper has gone.
8Jankowsky is a robot.

Well 4-6 in a very sloppy game . Giants coming ,let´s see If that improvement is for real ,We should remember we have played against the Raiders.....



Go Vikes,nice Win!!!!

PurplePeopleEaters
11-18-2007, 04:27 PM
I actually kinda liked Greenway's play today. Sure, he got up and ran it but otherwise he played a decent game in run coverage and wasn't totally burned like past weeks in the pass D.

The salt and pepper are awesome. I sometimes have to remember that Robison is just a rookie and Ray Edwards is a 2nd year guy. It's great to be able to rotate Robison, Edwards, Erasmus, and Udeze.. Erasmus' hit was ridiculous. Gotta love watching someone destroy Culpepper.

Tarvaris is getting
better in making his throws. He always has those bad throws but if he could eliminate those he would be a decent QB for the remainder of the year. I'm starting to see a little
bit of what Childress saw in him. Some of those throws were spot -on and exactly what you want in a WCO.

EJ is awesome. Should be in the pro-bowl this year.

McCauley and Griffin continue to get burned. Hopefully they improve a lot by next season or we may be Cornerback shopping in FA.

We need to eliminate the turnovers. 5 TO's will kill us against any other team.

Pass D still sucks.

Rice is awesome.

Shiancoe is becoming a reliable threat.

crazyB
11-18-2007, 04:32 PM
this game was too close but i'm glad we won at last.
i thought i was seeing thing's when i see Rice had a throw or two but glad he did well done, at least we showed we can still win a game with no AP yeah the Raiders are a crappy team but a win is a win in my book.

BleedinPandG
11-18-2007, 04:47 PM
I thought the team showed some positive things today.


Very few penalties which is great.
I didn't see a single false start or holding penalty on the line all day (what was the RB blocking penalty that was called??)
Last year penalties were a BIG deal for the Vikings.
They're doing some very good things here this year.

Good pressure on Culpepper but there are times they still need to lock him up instead of just bumping him.
He's way too big for that kind of two hand touch football.
Take away the two deep balls (one of which should've been picked) and the pass defense in general was improved with the added pressure.

I thought the OLine was solid today.
Most of the time TJ had time to throw.
It helped getting him out of the pocket.
I'd like to see how they hold up with some more play action though, they didn't do too much of that.

I loved TJ's accuracy today.
A stupid throw in the endzone but I also blame the WR for raising his arm like he was open.
But that was really the only bad throw I saw him make today.
He looked much improved on the throws out to the RBs which made some nice gains for us.
Still holds the ball too long at times and doesn't always know when to throw it away.
I do like the called QB sneaks though.
A quick, physical QB like TJ opens up those sorts of plays and adds another dimension to the O.

Obviously Chester had a great game.
I'd like to see him traded in the offseason for some draft picks or a good WR.
I believe MM is a capable backup to AD.
If we do trade MM instead obviously we'd get less in return but I'd like to see the Vikings do more 2 back sets which would definitely be a new look in today's NFL.

I didn't think the game was as close as the score.
Obviously the turnovers had a big impact.
Next week is another test week (like the GB game was).
If the Vikes want a WC spot they need to beat both the Giants and the Lions.
Giants struggled today against the Lions, was an ugly game.
We'll see...

Go VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!

COJOMAY
11-18-2007, 04:50 PM
Well, despite all those that looked at this game for poor proformances, I saw some very positive things happening.
While TJ still looked like a rookie, I saw some hunge improvement in this game from him and also from Williamson in catching balls. That one he picked up off the carpet was a marvel.
Who is Adrian Peterson? Gads, Chester looked like an animal today. What a two-headed monster we have in our running backs.
The offensive line play opened some great holes today, Good job by them.
The defense was awesome with the exceptions of some lapses in pass defense. You can't chalk the long pass to poor defense, two men on him and Sharper should have just knocked the ball away instead of trying to intercept it but hindsight is always 20-20.
Five Fumbles. That is really bad. Any team that fumbles that much deserves to lose (or was it six fumbles). I don't think TJack's was.
Pretty good coaching job overall except defensively when we play "nickle" and let Culpepper complete some passes on it. Defenders are still playing too soft.
Overall a good effort. Much better than last week but then a much less superior team was the opponent today.
I'm willing to not call for anyone head this week and see what developes in the weeks ahead. To me, it looks like they are improving.

tb04512
11-18-2007, 04:52 PM
very happy with jackson today, he made 2 bad passes, and that pick was a great play by the defender, 17-22 171 yards and 1 int,
i think this was a good confidence booster for him

Marrdro
11-18-2007, 04:54 PM
How come these are so small when we win and so big when we loose.

;D

Special honorable mention goes out to Gordon.
Special teams tackles, Kick return, two nice stops on D.
Great Job my friend.

Positives.

Even though we made alot of mistakes it seems like we overcame them with minimal impact.
Great team effort.

OL.
I keep saying it.
We go as the OL goes.
Great job in Run Blocking and nice job on Pass protection.
The pocket appears to be getting bigger and the guys seem to hold thier blocks (almost always) long enough for a pass to happen.
Great job.

RB's. Where are the guys who want to trade CT now?
Great job by all minus a couple of fumbles.

WR's. How about that catch by T-will?

;D
Good effort by all.
Only one blemish and that is B-wades fumble. (Edit) how can I forget about Rices throws.
Good thing the coaches weren't holding him back on those
;D

TE's.
Dugan on a Kickoff return, Shank all over the field blocking and a couple of very nice catches.
Way to go my friend.

QB.
Good effort.
That is all I want out of you for now.
Did anyone see the pass he made with the MLB hanging on him?
A couple of very nice throws while on the move as well as a couple of key runs for yards when we needed it.

DL.
Gonna give you minimal props for the effort.
Saw some nice stuff from all, including Erasmus.
His sack was nice to see, however, he gave pressure on several plays as well.
Good job against the run today.

LB's.
Overall an excellent game.
Couple of times you guys overan a play or two however, way to disguise the blitz (when it is called) as well as the delayed blitzing is starting to look better.
Great last series by Chad when we needed it. (Chad you gotta get down with that much time/game situation
;D)

Special Teams.
Kickers are clutch.
Nice returns. (Memo you got to signal fair catch on some of those
:o).
Good tackling for the most part.
By the way, that is the second time since AD mucked it up that time that we got the ball out of bounds at the 1 or 2 vice going in the end zone.
Where are the yutz's that say it isn't worth spending time on those types of plays.
You could almost here T-will thinking, "grab it with my foot out of bounds if necessary....."
;D

Penalties.
Good job today.
Bad time for Hererra's however, still a solid effort.

Off Coaches.
Great plays calling, Good game plan.


Def Coaches.
Good game plan.



BAD.

QB.
TJ needs to throw the ball away after the clock goes off in his yead better.
I saw 3 bad throws that could have been (one was) INTs.

Def Line.
I know there are some that will blame the secondary, but gol 'darnit, we need to find some way to get a pass rush with the front four.


Secondary.
Guys you have to turn your heads a bit sooner.
Watch the recievers eyes or something. gol 'darnit.
Maybe I am just being a bit critical on him since he opened his yap, however, I saw Sharper late on 2 plays and miss a simple INT.
Come on man.
Step up and be the leader here.

Def Coaches.
I hate to jump on the "Blitz more" crowd but until you get a DE that can get pressure on a consistent basis we need to use the LB's a bit more.

Turnovers.
Man we have to watch them.
Way to many.
Good thing the Raiders are crappy as well.

Long story short, a very entertaining game.
Good win after a poor loss.
Very inovative with some of the plays/scheme. I like the mix of pass and run with both being mixed in when not expected at times.

We still have some issues with the DE's, TJ getting rid of the ball, WR's getting open and the turnovers were a very unexpected issue.

Key Note:
Nothing like watching Culpepper get his due.

;D

jessejames09
11-18-2007, 05:12 PM
TJ looks like the TJ I saw in the preseason.

Our defense had some redemption but the one thing that is missing every week is safety play.
We need a stud safety.

Troy Williamson isn't going to get cut if he continues to catch the football. (I feel a little sick saying that) Oh and you can't teach speed.

Our O-line is The Shit!! + Jake Long and we're golden.

Cedric Griffin is really showing improvement. Especially in his hitting, thats the texas attitude.

EJ is still our defensive MVP. As I type every week in these threads, The kid is a crazy hard hitter.
I need an EJ sig that has him tackling someone that says



"EJ Henderson"













































"Laying the Wood"

CCthebest
11-18-2007, 05:14 PM
Thing I like to see...Rice in the game and EJ blitzing....lets hope against the giants we see more of both.

We beat a piss poot team today...and it was a sloopy game...but a win is a win

Do we have a single player on the D that can cover? Even 1 guy? I know our line doesnt get alot of pressure but for heavens sake we suck at coverage and 3rd downs. Can we please trade griffin (i know its only his second year) and Sharper? please god?

TJ did ok...all real short passes but he did ok...anything over 10 yards though he has no accuracy or touch at all...none

Wade had the 1 fumble but otherwise our WRs, TEs, and Rbs had a good game in the air.

Oline still gets an A for thier job. Little more pass protection for an A+ though

tb04512
11-18-2007, 05:15 PM
we just need to be consistent into next week, i think what really helped the passing game was the deep bomb in the beginning of the game, notice they put less people in the box because of it

vikesfargo
11-18-2007, 05:31 PM
Coach Childress - The Vikes looked loads better today. The offense gained 500 yards. We had very few penalties, while the Raiders had false start fever. Solid special teams play. A disciplined, fired up Vikings. On the downside, we had five turnovers and only got one. On the upside, it's amazing we won when we gave up five turnovers. The other upside is consistency. We are beating the bad teams. We aren't beating the good teams, yet, but we are consistent. That means we can improve. In fact, each week we are improving.

Troy Williamson - My man can catch! Great scoop off the carpet. Number 82 needs more throws going his way.

Bobby Wade - Another solid performance, but slightly marred by an uncharacteristic fumble.

Tarvaris Jackson - Every week he improves a little bit. This week his accuracy was way up. He only misfired on two throws. Unfortunately one was an interception in the red zone. The fumble in the pocket while buying time has to be corrected by the coaching staff. He hit 17 of 22 passes, which is great stuff. He had two big-time throws in the fourth quarter for first downs. Amazing day for a quarterback out of Alabama State when he hasn't even started 10 games yet. Tarvaris Jackson will be a star in the NFL. We fans need to stick with him through thick and thin.

Chad Greenway - Future Pro Bowler played great except for the decision to return the late INT. He'll learn.

Defensive line - Signs of life in the pass rush. The safety was huge. We have two young guys, Robison and Edwards who are doing great with 3 or 4 sacks each. Now if we could only get more consistent pressure. Big Pat Williams was incredible.

Linebackers - We could really use better pass coverage out of this unit. The Greenway interception was a step in the right direction.

Secondary - Too many big passing plays given up again. I keep feeling like they are ready to turn a corner. Macauley is still learning, but he's making good progress.


Offensive line - They played great even with the mistake allowing Sapp through who forced a fumble. Pass blocking could also improve a notch.

Chester Taylor - Great effort, and great production. I'd like to see more of Chester even when we have AD in uniform.

Lane Kiffin - Former Vikings ballboy has the Raiders vastly improved over the lowly state they were at. They still have a long way to go, a longer way than us.

Daunte Culpepper - Typical game for Daunte Culpepper, including the big numbers, and the fumbles and the pick. We love ya, Daunte. We hope you go tear up all the other teams and set the AFC on fire.

Caine
11-18-2007, 05:40 PM
We won, but all of the questions were left unanswered in my opinion.

Chester Taylor - There's a reason he was our starter last season...he's good.
But, as amazing as his performance was today, I can't help but wonder how many yards AP would have had.


Sydney Rice - Nice passes....maybe HE should be our starting QB.
This kid could be something special.

Tarvaris Jackson - Virtually every pass completed was a come-back or a dump off.
Any QB in the NFL can hit those all day long.
While he had a nice run or two, he still didn't do anything that our back-ups wouldn't have, and that says - to me - that he is not the guy we need.
I know a lot of people are going to be back on the TJ bandwagon, but I didn't think he was all that good.
And nothing drove that home more than the INT in the endzone...only a boneheaded defensive play saved our bacon on that one.

The Line blocked well today, lots of nice holes ripped open.
Decent pass protection too.
Now if we could only get some consistancy from taht unit, we'd be in business.

On Defense, they were pretty stingy early on, bailing us out after all those turnovers.
Then they started to get beat a bit - allowing Oakland to get back into the game.
Our DB's aren't looking too sharp.
We seemed to get good penetration and pressure on the blitzes, but fell flat when we went to nickle and dime coverages.
Edwards had a nice game, the Williams brothers are always a force, and it was nice to see James finally in the lineup.

All in all, aside from a few big plays, I saw the same handful of guys producing, and the rest along for the ride.
We got the win, but - as I said - all the questions are still there.

Caine

sharper42
11-18-2007, 05:48 PM
t-jack was pretty good in completion percentage (17-22) but still made many mistake
chester went into beast mode
sidney is our best quarterback
erasmus killed daunte :]

and the dome seemed dead???...

C Mac D
11-18-2007, 06:28 PM
I didn't get a chance to watch the game, can anyone tell me why Rice went into the game? 2 passes for 98 yards?! That's awesome... do you think Chilly is toying the with idea of making him a QB... or what was his rationale for putting him in?

RK.
11-18-2007, 06:37 PM
WE WON WE WON
http://www.deercreekpottery.com/pics/snoopy.gif

Thats all I have to say.

douginc
11-18-2007, 06:40 PM
Just my opinion, but I think what appears as improvement is truly just an illusion cast when we play really poorly (even more so) coached teams.
San Diego, it seemed as if our team was headed in the proper direction.
Green Bay smacked us back into reality.
Now we played Oakland, who decided to run against us way too many times AND their O-line is a sieve.
They still could have defeated us, even.
Who knows, maybe the Giants will b*** slap the Vikes back into reality again.

To me, it seems as if we can look good when we play awful opponents, and horrific when playing true contenders.

But it was a very fun game to watch.
Chester Taylor is awesome and underrated.
Yes, AP is better, but a lot of people forgot how impressive he was last year.
He was our O MVP, he reminded us why today.
Plus, I'm excited for Sidney Rice's future.

PurplePowerPunch
11-18-2007, 06:51 PM
Good game Vikes. First, C.T. went off today, our two-headed monster is legit. Pass Def. still sucks, Griffin keeps getting beat every week. Edwards should be the starter, and E.J. is going to the Pro Bowl. T-Jack played good. Let's do it next week at New York.

Marrdro
11-18-2007, 07:00 PM
"C" wrote:


I didn't get a chance to watch the game, can anyone tell me why Rice went into the game? 2 passes for 98 yards?! That's awesome... do you think Chilly is toying the with idea of making him a QB... or what was his rationale for putting him in?

It was just more of the Chiller sucking at being a coach and re-affirmed in my mind that his Vanilla WCO is so predictable.

First one was a douple fake reverse with Shank deep.
Shitty Rice threw a damn wobbler that should have been intercepted.
Fricken coaches shouldn't be teaching those types of plays.
The should be focusing on the basic stuff like running, throwing, catching.

Second was about the same dumb play.
How predictable.
Seemed like every damn play they had some sort of fake reverse on thinking they could fool the Raiders D.
Damn Fricken coaches.

Did I mention, FRICKEN coaches.
So predictable.
Fire all thier asses.
;D

ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 07:12 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I didn't get a chance to watch the game, can anyone tell me why Rice went into the game? 2 passes for 98 yards?! That's awesome... do you think Chilly is toying the with idea of making him a QB... or what was his rationale for putting him in?

It was just more of the Chiller sucking at being a coach and re-affirmed in my mind that his Vanilla WCO is so predictable.

First one was a douple fake reverse with Shank deep.
Shitty Rice threw a damn wobbler that should have been intercepted.
Fricken coaches shouldn't be teaching those types of plays.
The should be focusing on the basic stuff like running, throwing, catching.

Second was about the same dumb play.
How predictable.
Seemed like every damn play they had some sort of fake reverse on thinking they could fool the Raiders D.
Damn Fricken coaches.

Did I mention, FRICKEN coaches.
So predictable.

Fire all thier asses.
;D


Did the plays work? Yes or no?

Marrdro
11-18-2007, 07:14 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I didn't get a chance to watch the game, can anyone tell me why Rice went into the game? 2 passes for 98 yards?! That's awesome... do you think Chilly is toying the with idea of making him a QB... or what was his rationale for putting him in?

It was just more of the Chiller sucking at being a coach and re-affirmed in my mind that his Vanilla WCO is so predictable.

First one was a douple fake reverse with Shank deep.
poohie Rice threw a gol 'darnit wobbler that should have been intercepted.
Fricken coaches shouldn't be teaching those types of plays.
The should be focusing on the basic stuff like running, throwing, catching.

Second was about the same dumb play.
How predictable.
Seemed like every gol 'darnit play they had some sort of fake reverse on thinking they could fool the Raiders D.
gol 'darnit Fricken coaches.

Did I mention, FRICKEN coaches.
So predictable.

Fire all thier dimply buttocks.
;D


Did the plays work? Yes or no?

Ultra, I was putting on my best CMacD impression.
Don't ruin my fun.
I loved the play calls.
;D

COJOMAY
11-18-2007, 07:22 PM
"Caine" wrote:


We won, but all of the questions were left unanswered in my opinion.

Chester Taylor - There's a reason he was our starter last season...he's good.
But, as amazing as his performance was today, I can't help but wonder how many yards AP would have had.


Sydney Rice - Nice passes....maybe HE should be our starting QB.
This kid could be something special.

Tarvaris Jackson - Virtually every pass completed was a come-back or a dump off.
Any QB in the NFL can hit those all day long. While he had a nice run or two, he still didn't do anything that our back-ups wouldn't have, and that says - to me - that he is not the guy we need.
I know a lot of people are going to be back on the TJ bandwagon, but I didn't think he was all that good.
And nothing drove that home more than the INT in the endzone...only a boneheaded defensive play saved our bacon on that one.

The Line blocked well today, lots of nice holes ripped open.
Decent pass protection too.
Now if we could only get some consistancy from taht unit, we'd be in business.

On Defense, they were pretty stingy early on, bailing us out after all those turnovers.
Then they started to get beat a bit - allowing Oakland to get back into the game.
Our DB's aren't looking too sharp.
We seemed to get good penetration and pressure on the blitzes, but fell flat when we went to nickle and dime coverages.
Edwards had a nice game, the Williams brothers are always a force, and it was nice to see James finally in the lineup.

All in all, aside from a few big plays, I saw the same handful of guys producing, and the rest along for the ride.
We got the win, but - as I said - all the questions are still there.

Caine


Childress says those types of passes were by design. They were trying to get TJ into a "rhythm" and give him some confidence.

ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 07:23 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I didn't get a chance to watch the game, can anyone tell me why Rice went into the game? 2 passes for 98 yards?! That's awesome... do you think Chilly is toying the with idea of making him a QB... or what was his rationale for putting him in?

It was just more of the Chiller sucking at being a coach and re-affirmed in my mind that his Vanilla WCO is so predictable.

First one was a douple fake reverse with Shank deep.
poohie Rice threw a gol 'darnit wobbler that should have been intercepted.
Fricken coaches shouldn't be teaching those types of plays.
The should be focusing on the basic stuff like running, throwing, catching.

Second was about the same dumb play.
How predictable.
Seemed like every gol 'darnit play they had some sort of fake reverse on thinking they could fool the Raiders D.
gol 'darnit Fricken coaches.

Did I mention, FRICKEN coaches.
So predictable.

Fire all thier dimply buttocks.
;D


Did the plays work? Yes or no?

Ultra, I was putting on my best CMacD impression.
Don't ruin my fun.
I loved the play calls.

;D


I kind of thought so, but was not sure.

Carry on.

Marrdro
11-18-2007, 07:26 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I didn't get a chance to watch the game, can anyone tell me why Rice went into the game? 2 passes for 98 yards?! That's awesome... do you think Chilly is toying the with idea of making him a QB... or what was his rationale for putting him in?

It was just more of the Chiller sucking at being a coach and re-affirmed in my mind that his Vanilla WCO is so predictable.

First one was a douple fake reverse with Shank deep.
poohie Rice threw a gol 'darnit wobbler that should have been intercepted.
Fricken coaches shouldn't be teaching those types of plays.
The should be focusing on the basic stuff like running, throwing, catching.

Second was about the same dumb play.
How predictable.
Seemed like every gol 'darnit play they had some sort of fake reverse on thinking they could fool the Raiders D.
gol 'darnit Fricken coaches.

Did I mention, FRICKEN coaches.
So predictable.

Fire all thier dimply buttocks.
;D


Did the plays work? Yes or no?

Ultra, I was putting on my best CMacD impression.
Don't ruin my fun.
I loved the play calls.

;D


I kind of thought so, but was not sure.

Carry on.

To late, you ruined ( ;D) it unless you can delete all this stuff that let it out of the bag.
;D

mblack76
11-18-2007, 07:30 PM
Jets beat Steelers
;D

SIUviking
11-18-2007, 07:35 PM
Does anyone now think that it is our Defense that we need to work on this offseason. If the vikings pick up on good O-lineman and maybe a WR then everything else should goto the D and especially the secondary. Defense wins games. That is where many problems lie.

Schutz
11-18-2007, 07:45 PM
I about fell over dead after seeing the Vikes actually make good offensive play calling.
Did Childress take the day off and we just didn't notice?
On the offensive side it came together a lot better then some of our other games.
The O-Line and CT looked mighty fine in moving the football.
T-Jack still looks like a backup, he made short little throws anybody could make, and wasn't even as accurate as Rice while throwing down field, give me a break.
The defensive front was as dominant on the run as usual, but brought a surprisingly large amount of heat (although that's probably because of that Raiders O-Line).
The pass D looked as horrible as ever though, so many blown coverages, and their jiggly butts were saved time and time again from the horrific ball catching skills of Oakland receivers.
Which by the way, we feel bad about dropped balls?
Good lord it's almost like Oakland was trying to lose the game with dropped balls and horrible protection.

Glad Minnesota won, but if Oakland is still in the position to take this to overtime possibly after the game they played, the Vikes still have a long way to go.

Suick
11-18-2007, 07:47 PM
"Caine" wrote:




Tarvaris Jackson - Virtually every pass completed was a come-back or a dump off.
Any QB in the NFL can hit those all day long.
While he had a nice run or two, he still didn't do anything that our back-ups wouldn't have, and that says - to me - that he is not the guy we need.
I know a lot of people are going to be back on the TJ bandwagon, but I didn't think he was all that good.
And nothing drove that home more than the INT in the endzone...only a boneheaded defensive play saved our bacon on that one.





Completely agree.

If BB started it would not have been close. TJ was a D- today

Suick
11-18-2007, 07:49 PM
I still can't beleive we punted w/ a couple of minutes left on 4th and about 18"

PurplePowerPunch
11-18-2007, 07:49 PM
"Suick" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:




Tarvaris Jackson - Virtually every pass completed was a come-back or a dump off.
Any QB in the NFL can hit those all day long.
While he had a nice run or two, he still didn't do anything that our back-ups wouldn't have, and that says - to me - that he is not the guy we need.
I know a lot of people are going to be back on the TJ bandwagon, but I didn't think he was all that good.
And nothing drove that home more than the INT in the endzone...only a boneheaded defensive play saved our bacon on that one.





Completely agree.

If BB started it would not have been close. TJ was a D- today

Do you really think Brooks gives us the better chance to win?

Suick
11-18-2007, 07:52 PM
I don't think he would make as many mental errors.

TJ was lucky the INT's were not much worse

jessejames09
11-18-2007, 07:53 PM
We're 2 games behind the lionesses for the last wild card spot.

TJ was a D- minus today?!
Are you serious?!

Suick
11-18-2007, 07:54 PM
Put it this way...........

We won despite TJ

Suick
11-18-2007, 07:56 PM
PS

If we make the playoffs, the NFC should join the World Football Leauge

Vikes_King
11-18-2007, 07:58 PM
D- is a little harsh for his rating imo, it was basically the best game we've seen him play (ik thats not saying much), so i'd give him a B.
That doesnt mean i thought he was amazing or anything, but at least he completed a few this game, even if they were easy dump offs, at least its showing signs of improvement.

Big C
11-18-2007, 08:01 PM
I think TJ played descent. I agree that Bollinger would have played better but we're grooming TJ for the future whether we like it or not (sorry, just reality). I want to point out is that he made some of the throws that he COULDN'T make earlier in the season. He showed good accuracy on most passes which was something that bothered me.

Observations:
1. Charles Gordon has stepped up nicely over the last few weeks.
2. Griffin had a really bad day today. He alternates between amazing games and poor games.
3. I have no idea why Allison wasn't returning kicks. Troy hasn't done anything in the return game to win that job.
4. Using Tahi for an entire series in the redzone (ended in a FG) is in-excusable. This is not pre-season. We threw away 4 points on that posession because I am sure either CT or Memo would have hit the crease without hesitating to make the 1st down.
5. Why we play that stupid soft-zone defense when blitzing proved so successful?
6. Nice to see Circu make plays on Special Teams.
7. Erasmus James got a sack!!! Yippee!!

Braddock
11-18-2007, 08:06 PM
OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?

Schutz
11-18-2007, 08:33 PM
"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

floop YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fricken serious?


Rabble Rabble Rabble.
Or people might be concerned that any NFL backup could have had the game T-Jack had today, and your camp still see him as the best QB prospect in the NFL.

When T-Jack's good day includes a red zone Int, and fumble maybe you should rethink progress.
He was very close to a worse day as well.
When he starts consistently hitting targets DOWN FIELD and not just on the flats for screens and such, then maybe I'll listen to someone chest pounding about T-Jack

By the way, I DESPISE, Childress, but I'll give him props for some creativity on offense today, and if he keeps it up I might just join the give him another year camp.
So I don't just blindly dislike a player/coach, but for crying out loud they need to do something of note before I start joining the fan club.

ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 08:43 PM
"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


Who is calling for his head?
I would say most posted he was better, but still some concern.
What is wrong with that assessment?

How do you know the WR's were not open?
You don't and neither do we.
We can only comment on what we see.

Yah, we know what BB does and we know what happens when TJ has a bad game...so what?

Please stop with the public "Fuck you's".
Nobody see's the post as constructive with that in there.

vikinggreg
11-18-2007, 08:54 PM
"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


He had 2 turnovers and no TD's, he is improving but this was the Raiders.....if you want to crown em then crown em.
::)


Next week is the Giants and TJ is going to need to turn the volume to 11

mountainviking
11-18-2007, 09:15 PM
I liked what I saw in TJack today!
Finally, some accuracy.
Maybe, someday...
That INT in the endzone was a hell of a play by the defender.


Hell Yeah Chester Taylor!!!
Hope he is a Viking for a long, long time!
I still say, even with a healthy AP, use the 1-2 punch to keep our guys healthy and hungry and to keep defenses guessing and tired!
And, yeah, a little passing makes the rushing game that much better!

The OLine seems to keep improving...and that, will help everything.

Nice trick plays coaches!!
Love it!
Run the ball, stop the run, pull off a successful trick play or two and win the game!

Still don't feel like we know the whole story on Chilldress or TJack...sure they could continue to struggle against good teams, and they could be booted to go on to other teams and succeed, or, maybe, with enough of a chance, they could do real good things for the purple pride.
only time will tell, and by then it may be too late...

don't get me wrong, I still think we need better depth/more competition at the QB spot...but, I do think there is some potential in the young TJack...that could be reaped with a bit more time/experience.

V4L
11-18-2007, 09:24 PM
Jackson played good

People are askin why he didn't take shots downfield.. Well come on what do u want

Our offense is based around the short passes (Curls and slants etc)

He did a good job of managing the offense..

He needs to make a few better decisions but im optimistic for him in the futrue

singersp
11-18-2007, 09:30 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


Who is calling for his head?
I would say most posted he was better, but still some concern.
What is wrong with that assessment?

How do you know the WR's were not open?
You don't and neither do we.
We can only comment on what we see.
Yah, we know what BB does and we know what happens when TJ has a bad game...so what?

Please stop with the public "Fuck you's".
Nobody see's the post as constructive with that in there.


I was there. I could see. That's the beauty of going to the game & sitting in the upper level around mid-field..................WE CAN SEE!

On a lot of those passes where he stayed in the pocket to long, the receivers were covered & he was waiting for someone to get open & trying to make something happen when they did.

He protected the ball by not trying to force it & perhaps cause an interception, but at the same time, those are the times he needs to know to either start running or throw it out of bounds. It's what his 6-7th start this year? I can expect some of those from a young QB. He has to get a better feel for the pocket around him & know how to react better, but those types of things take time.

I'm also hoping to see the type of passes he threw today on a more consistant basis, for one good game is still not enough for me, but it is enough for me not to bash on him. I saw one pass today that was not on the mark other than the pick. The one to Ferguson.

The long one to Rice, Rice was clearly man-handled & interfered with down the side-line. Where was the flag? One he clearly threw away out of bounds & the other he threw away to avoid the sack into a spot on the field where it could harmlessly fall incomplete.

ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 09:32 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


Who is calling for his head?
I would say most posted he was better, but still some concern.
What is wrong with that assessment?

How do you know the WR's were not open?
You don't and neither do we.
We can only comment on what we see.
Yah, we know what BB does and we know what happens when TJ has a bad game...so what?

Please stop with the public "Fuck you's".
Nobody see's the post as constructive with that in there.


I was there. I could see. That's the beauty of going to the game & sitting in the upper level around mid-field..................WE CAN SEE!

On a lot of those passes where he stayed in the pocket to long, the receivers were covered & he was waiting for someone to get open & trying to make something happen when they did.

He protected the ball by not trying to force it & perhaps cause an interception, but at the same time, those are the times he needs to know to either start running or throw it out of bounds. It's what his 6-7th start this year? I can expect some of those from a young QB. He has to get a better feel for the pocket around him & know how to react better, but those types of things take time.

I'm also hoping to see the type of passes he threw today on a more consistant basis, for one good game is still not enough for me, but it is enough for me not to bash on him. I saw one pass today that was not on the mark other than the pick. The one to Ferguson.

The long one to Rice, Rice was clearly man-handled & interfered with down the side-line. Where was the flag? One he clearly threw away out of bounds & the other he threw away to avoid the sack into a spot on the field where it could harmlessly fall incomplete.


I was not addressing those who were at the game.
::)

Freya
11-18-2007, 09:33 PM
Great first play! Exciting, unexpected............now if they can maintain that kind of energy throughout, WOW.

jessejames09
11-18-2007, 09:33 PM
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2007/09000d5d80448bc5_gallery_600.jpg
Sidney Rice droppin bombs!

C Mac D
11-18-2007, 09:33 PM
"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


http://realonomics.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/chill-pill.jpg

V4L
11-18-2007, 09:34 PM
Singer was just saying u can see they werent open

singersp
11-18-2007, 09:42 PM
"C" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


http://realonomics.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/chill-pill.jpg


Shouldn't you be taking one of those yourself?

C Mac D
11-18-2007, 09:44 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


http://realonomics.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/chill-pill.jpg


Shouldn't you be taking one of those yourself?


I've never said "FUCK YOU" to people on this site, nor will I ever.

But you could go ahead and take one though.

singersp
11-18-2007, 09:46 PM
"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


http://realonomics.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/chill-pill.jpg


Shouldn't you be taking one of those yourself?


I've never said "FUCK YOU" to people on this site, nor will I ever.

But you could go ahead and take one though.


I don't need one. I know what I saw happen at the game. Others seem to have had another game on.

C Mac D
11-18-2007, 09:47 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


http://realonomics.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/chill-pill.jpg


Shouldn't you be taking one of those yourself?


I've never said "FUCK YOU" to people on this site, nor will I ever.

But you could go ahead and take one though.


I don't need one. I know what I saw happen at the game. Others seem to have had another game on.


Yeah, I should have added one of these: ;)

singersp
11-18-2007, 09:49 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


Who is calling for his head?
I would say most posted he was better, but still some concern.
What is wrong with that assessment?

How do you know the WR's were not open?
You don't and neither do we.
We can only comment on what we see.
Yah, we know what BB does and we know what happens when TJ has a bad game...so what?

Please stop with the public "Fuck you's".
Nobody see's the post as constructive with that in there.


I was there. I could see. That's the beauty of going to the game & sitting in the upper level around mid-field..................WE CAN SEE!

On a lot of those passes where he stayed in the pocket to long, the receivers were covered & he was waiting for someone to get open & trying to make something happen when they did.

He protected the ball by not trying to force it & perhaps cause an interception, but at the same time, those are the times he needs to know to either start running or throw it out of bounds. It's what his 6-7th start this year? I can expect some of those from a young QB. He has to get a better feel for the pocket around him & know how to react better, but those types of things take time.

I'm also hoping to see the type of passes he threw today on a more consistant basis, for one good game is still not enough for me, but it is enough for me not to bash on him. I saw one pass today that was not on the mark other than the pick. The one to Ferguson.

The long one to Rice, Rice was clearly man-handled & interfered with down the side-line. Where was the flag? One he clearly threw away out of bounds & the other he threw away to avoid the sack into a spot on the field where it could harmlessly fall incomplete.


I was not addressing those who were at the game.

::)


I know you weren't. I was just interjecting with what I saw at the game to eliminate some of the speculating.
:P

ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 09:53 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


Who is calling for his head?
I would say most posted he was better, but still some concern.
What is wrong with that assessment?

How do you know the WR's were not open?
You don't and neither do we.
We can only comment on what we see.
Yah, we know what BB does and we know what happens when TJ has a bad game...so what?

Please stop with the public "Fuck you's".
Nobody see's the post as constructive with that in there.


I was there. I could see. That's the beauty of going to the game & sitting in the upper level around mid-field..................WE CAN SEE!

On a lot of those passes where he stayed in the pocket to long, the receivers were covered & he was waiting for someone to get open & trying to make something happen when they did.

He protected the ball by not trying to force it & perhaps cause an interception, but at the same time, those are the times he needs to know to either start running or throw it out of bounds. It's what his 6-7th start this year? I can expect some of those from a young QB. He has to get a better feel for the pocket around him & know how to react better, but those types of things take time.

I'm also hoping to see the type of passes he threw today on a more consistant basis, for one good game is still not enough for me, but it is enough for me not to bash on him. I saw one pass today that was not on the mark other than the pick. The one to Ferguson.

The long one to Rice, Rice was clearly man-handled & interfered with down the side-line. Where was the flag? One he clearly threw away out of bounds & the other he threw away to avoid the sack into a spot on the field where it could harmlessly fall incomplete.


I was not addressing those who were at the game.

::)


I know you weren't. I was just interjecting with what I saw at the game to eliminate some of the speculating.
:P


Puleaz!
You watch the ball like 90% of football spectators at a live game.
You do not watch what the D is doing as the play develops.
You see the end result.

V4L
11-18-2007, 09:57 PM
I also saw the WRs running routes and they were not open alot of the time except some shorts and check downs

ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 10:03 PM
"V4L" wrote:


I also saw the WRs running routes and they were not open alot of the time except some shorts and check downs


Or coming back to the ball like they are supposed to do.

V4L
11-18-2007, 10:05 PM
Point is T-Jack did okay.. WR's did okay

We won..

Nothing else matters

ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 10:06 PM
"V4L" wrote:


Point is T-Jack did okay.. WR's did okay

We won..

Nothing else matters


I know.
I said that first post.

All that matters is the "W"

C Mac D
11-18-2007, 10:07 PM
"V4L" wrote:


Point is T-Jack did okay.. WR's did okay

We won..

Nothing else matters


Yeah... to bad it was only the Raiders.
:-

V4L
11-18-2007, 10:07 PM
Just groomin our players man

Not expecting much more the rest of this season

singersp
11-18-2007, 10:12 PM
"C" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


Point is T-Jack did okay.. WR's did okay

We won..

Nothing else matters


Yeah... to bad it was only the Raiders.
:-\


::) You mean the same Raiders who are the 4th best in the league in defending the pass?

Those Raiders?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find

C Mac D
11-18-2007, 10:15 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


Point is T-Jack did okay.. WR's did okay

We won..

Nothing else matters


Yeah... to bad it was only the Raiders.
:-\


::) You mean the same Raiders who are the 4th best in the league in defending the pass?

Those Raiders?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find


Yeah... and 29th against the rush... those Raiders.

You know, the 2-8 Raiders... those Raiders.

Caine
11-18-2007, 10:20 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

floop YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fricken serious?


Who is calling for his head?
I would say most posted he was better, but still some concern.
What is wrong with that assessment?

How do you know the WR's were not open?
You don't and neither do we.
We can only comment on what we see.
Yah, we know what BB does and we know what happens when TJ has a bad game...so what?

Please stop with the public "floop you's".
Nobody see's the post as constructive with that in there.


I was there. I could see. That's the beauty of going to the game & sitting in the upper level around mid-field..................WE CAN SEE!

On a lot of those passes where he stayed in the pocket to long, the receivers were covered & he was waiting for someone to get open & trying to make something happen when they did.

He protected the ball by not trying to force it & perhaps cause an interception, but at the same time, those are the times he needs to know to either start running or throw it out of bounds. It's what his 6-7th start this year? I can expect some of those from a young QB. He has to get a better feel for the pocket around him & know how to react better, but those types of things take time.

I'm also hoping to see the type of passes he threw today on a more consistant basis, for one good game is still not enough for me, but it is enough for me not to bash on him. I saw one pass today that was not on the mark other than the pick. The one to Ferguson.

The long one to Rice, Rice was clearly man-handled & interfered with down the side-line. Where was the flag? One he clearly threw away out of bounds & the other he threw away to avoid the sack into a spot on the field where it could harmlessly fall incomplete.


My criticism of Jackson stands...I don't think he's very good.
I realize that the Jackson Fan Club have been waiting for another mediocre game (As opposed to the horrible ones) so that they could start praising his average performance again....here it is.


But that's exactly what I saw...an average game from an average player against a bad team.
Taylor had that Defense so discombobulated that even our almost non-existant passing game looked adequate today.

But, since that's exactly what we're saddled with for the rest of the season I agree with Singer in that I'd like to see us do more of it.
If we can move the ball on the come-back route, do it!!!
If that's the only pass the kids got, throw it!!!
If the receivers can't get open on anything else, call it!!!


It's time to stop screwing about wishing we could do all the things that the good teams can do and settle for what WE can do.
We can run, and we can throw come-backs and dump-offs.
Once in awhile we can get a "go" or a crossing route in there, but only if things are going our way already.

But, at the end of the day, what has Jackson done that says - to me - "This is our Starting QB...and he should be"?
Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.

So, Braddock and those who feel similarly, I'm sorry if this doesn't meet with your approval, but until we have a few games in a row where Jackson is a cornerstone piece of the offense - not just along for the ride - I'll change my tune.
Until then, let me simply remind you that Sydney Rice threw a pass for 74 yards...and Tarvaris Jackson's longest was 15.
Good thing we have Rice to go in when we want to throw the long ball...

Caine

purplepride_1961
11-18-2007, 10:24 PM
If we would of lost i would of locked myself in my room and cried for a week

Frostbite
11-18-2007, 10:25 PM
Good win....I will take it and overall I was pleased....Except for the Turnovers and a few bone head play calls. We will not be able to beat the Giants with that many TOs. At times we looked very good today. T.Jack did not hurt us and did about as I expected he would. Chester Taylor...WOW. Nice game!!

I am still scratching my head about some of the Offensive play calling. Here is one example. We have 1st and goal at the four. Taylor and the O-line have been eating the Raiders up on this second drive of the game with running. We call a pass that gets picked off in the End Zone. WHY PASS THERE?? We got a safety a few minutes later granted....but we could have easily been up 14 zip by running it in. I do not blame T.Jack for that pick because we should NOT have been throwing in that situation.

I also question the use of Tahi as much as we did. I know he was spelling C.Tay on that drive but it was to much and it cost us a critical fisrt down there...IMHO.

How far down in the play book do you think Chilly and the O-coordinator went on that very first play??? That was great....mainly because it worked.

Our pass defense looks??? well....Bewildered... out there most of the time. Granted the raiders got very lucky on the long completion between two of our defenders.

Does anybody tell these defensive players that if they make an INT in near the end of the game to just go down...rather than take a chance of fumbling it?? That INT with a fall down Ices the game right there! I think Ultravikingsfan also mentioned this in one of his posts.

Bottom line....we can't play like this on pass defense or make the amount of turn overs we saw today if we are to have any chance against the Giants.

I'll take todays win cause in the emortal words of AL DAVIS.....Just Win baby! It looks like Troy Williams was giving maximum effort today as well. game ball has to go to Chester Taylor


Cheers!

singersp
11-18-2007, 10:38 PM
"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


Point is T-Jack did okay.. WR's did okay

We won..

Nothing else matters


Yeah... to bad it was only the Raiders.
:-\


::) You mean the same Raiders who are the 4th best in the league in defending the pass?

Those Raiders?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find


Yeah... and 29th against the rush... those Raiders.

You know, the 2-8 Raiders... those Raiders.


V4L was talking about T-Jack & the WR's. Not the run game.

ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 10:39 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


Does anybody tell these defensive players that if they make an INT in near the end of the game to just go down...rather than take a chance of fumbling it?? That INT with a fall down Ices the game right there! I think Ultravikingsfan also mentioned this in one of his posts.


Greenway knows he messed-up.

Thats ok though.
I think he was just a little excited.
I will have to go back and watch it, but the Viking who was right there next to him should have pulled him to the turf and not went with him on his quest for a TD.

vikesfargo
11-18-2007, 10:57 PM
"douginc" wrote:



To me, it seems as if we can look good when we play awful opponents, and horrific when playing true contenders.


This means we are consistent. From here we have to improve so we can beat the contenders.

Vikes_King
11-18-2007, 11:08 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


Point is T-Jack did okay.. WR's did okay

We won..

Nothing else matters


Yeah... to bad it was only the Raiders.
:-\


::) You mean the same Raiders who are the 4th best in the league in defending the pass?

Those Raiders?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find


Yeah... and 29th against the rush... those Raiders.

You know, the 2-8 Raiders... those Raiders.


V4L was talking about T-Jack & the WR's. Not the run game.


i didnt realise their pass D was so high ranked.
thats awesome
:)

DustinDupont
11-18-2007, 11:25 PM
"Vikes_King" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:




Point is T-Jack did okay.. WR's did okay

We won..

Nothing else matters


Yeah... to bad it was only the Raiders.
:-\


::) You mean the same Raiders who are the 4th best in the league in defending the pass?

Those Raiders?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find


Yeah... and 29th against the rush... those Raiders.

You know, the 2-8 Raiders... those Raiders.


V4L was talking about T-Jack & the WR's. Not the run game.


i didnt realise their pass D was so high ranked.
thats awesome
:)


yeah tjack looked very calm and collected out there.... im glad we got to see him fire those 10 yards ins and outs today, he looked very sharp doing it to

sdfrenchy
11-18-2007, 11:29 PM
I watched the game at the dome today. My seats were sideline upper level giving a good view of the field. My observations:
Defense. The corners play waaaay off the ball in inappropriate situations. On the the 10 yard line in the redzonethey gave the receivers an 8 yard cushion. Pretty easy to get open like that. Another thing I noticed was the Raiders would line up in a twin wr formation and we would only have one corner on that side. Usually about 8 yards away. I think the coaches need to modify the scheme a bit.
Offense. TJack showed a couple glimpses of what he could grow into today. It's only his 8th or so start. Let's be realistic about what he's going to do right now. He has shown some improvement. He is getting rid of the ball quicker, his completion % was acceptable. Chester Taylor is awesome and the line did a great job blocking today.
They almost let it get away today. But they didn't a win's a win.
Coaching: The playcalling was more aggressive today than I have ever seen under Chilly. I liked the gadget plays and also the rollouts that TJack was running. The blitzes on the D were working well. I think the coaching staff did a fine job today.
Bold prediction Keep Chilly and TJack and we can make the playoffs next year. Except for the second Green Bay game, all of our losses have been by 10pts or less. Hopin' next year we can win the close ones and blow GB out.

Garland Greene
11-18-2007, 11:34 PM
"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


To get the same reaction to how T-joke looked. Wait until dark and shine your headlights on soem deer.. pretty much smae reaction. Improved? Are you serious? take the blinders off. WR's were open T-Joke can't throw the ball to them.
the INT in the nd zone T-Joke was looking at Rice the whole time. The guy that everyone ran out of town played better than he did today.

Frostbite
11-18-2007, 11:35 PM
"DustinDupont" wrote:


"Vikes_King" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:






Point is T-Jack did okay.. WR's did okay

We won..

Nothing else matters


Yeah... to bad it was only the Raiders.
:-\


::) You mean the same Raiders who are the 4th best in the league in defending the pass?

Those Raiders?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find


Yeah... and 29th against the rush... those Raiders.

You know, the 2-8 Raiders... those Raiders.


V4L was talking about T-Jack & the WR's. Not the run game.


i didnt realise their pass D was so high ranked.
thats awesome
:)


yeah tjack looked very calm and collected out there.... im glad we got to see him fire those 10 yards ins and outs today, he looked very sharp doing it to







I think T.Jack was good enough today.....in reality he's going to have to do much better against NY next week than we saw today. For one thing....he's not going to be able to stand in the pocket against there pass rush for more than 4 seconds. He's going to have to be a lot quicker and more mobile and I believe actually should have some designed role outs called to help him keep away from Strahan and Co.

I don't blame T. Jack for the INT today...That was a Dumb play call with 1st and goal on the 4 yard line the way Chester was running it on that series. The Fumbles though are just the beginning if he doesn't get better pocket senses and use better judgement back there. NY will be a stronger test for him I think...and for our whole team.

Cheers!

Braddock
11-18-2007, 11:36 PM
"Caine" wrote:




My criticism of Jackson stands...I don't think he's very good.
I realize that the Jackson Fan Club have been waiting for another mediocre game (As opposed to the horrible ones) 1. so that they could start praising his average performance again....here it is.


But that's exactly what I saw...an average game from an average player against a bad team.
Taylor had that Defense so discombobulated that 2. even our almost non-existant passing game looked adequate today.

But, since that's exactly what we're saddled with for the rest of the season I agree with Singer in that I'd like to see us do more of it.
If we can move the ball on the come-back route, do it!!!
If that's the only pass the kids got, throw it!!!
If the receivers can't get open on anything else, call it!!!


It's time to stop screwing about wishing we could do all the things that the good teams can do and 3. settle for what WE can do.
We can run, and we can throw come-backs and dump-offs.
Once in awhile we can get a "go" or a crossing route in there, but only if things are going our way already.

But, at the end of the day, what has Jackson done that says - to me - "This is our Starting QB...and he should be"?
4. Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.

So, Braddock and those who feel similarly, I'm sorry if this doesn't meet with your approval, but until we have a few games in a row where Jackson is a cornerstone piece of the offense - not just along for the ride - I'll change my tune.
Until then, let me simply remind you that Sydney Rice threw a pass for 74 yards...and Tarvaris Jackson's longest was 15.
Good thing we have Rice to go in when we want to throw the long ball...

Caine


I've calmed down now, and being less emotional I think I can elaborate a little more precisely. BTW, I stand by everything I said earlier, just maybe should be toned it down. Regardless, one with my counterpoint:

To the first bold: Yes, I praised his average performance, that I cannot deny. The tone you present is one of exaggerating his performance, and while in an excited state I may do that, rationally I don't. His performance today was what we need, something to move the chains and set up the run. We should both be in agreement with that. Sure, it'd be nice to have the Manning or Brady, but this team is good enough to win with just a chain mover. I find myself having to praise Jackson a little more to counter balance all the negativity that is taken to an extreme as well. Just as there are those of us looking for a glimmer of hope, there are such looking for despair and pessimism. So in order to "push back" against all the nay sayers, I do praise slightly more than deserved. So without one, there would not be the other, at least in my case.

Second bold: Yes, our passing offense is awful. no secret there, but is it fair to say it IS improving? Jackson's accuracy is improving, just needs to learn when to lob it and when to zip it, and that's even been a little better. Williamson made some nice grabs (that second one from Rice especially) and Rice will be a SOLID receiver, with Wade as #3, where he fits well. Shiancoe is getting more involved and has soon he earns a little more of his contract (not all of it yet, but a little more than the beginning of the season). All our receivers but Troy are new to the system this year. Now the routes may not be hard to learn, but it takes time to build the chemistry with the QB, who btw has only started 10 times. Jackson, in comparison to vets, is really raw, but when compared to rooks, second years, isn't far behind.(leinart, croyle, YOUNG...geez bad). So while it isn't up to snuff, it's getting there slowly....... but surely.

Third bold: I agree completely. This I KIND OF spin to support Childress. His play calling is questionable for what we have now(to say the least), but I can start to see if the team really starts to come around and get it, that it may not be all that bad. Case in point, Oline blocking schemes. Real rugged at first, but now looking dominant. Those are vets, so they should pick up quick. The young guys need more learning curve time, especially the rooks, second years, b/c the game still seems fast to them. I know Peterson is an exception to this, but what isn't he an exception to?

Fourth Bold: I disagree whole heartedly with the Nothing expression. I will try to keep from over glorifying again, but bear with me. Jackson has all the natural talent you cannot reach. Arm strength, mobility, and quickness at that. What he doesn't have are the things that can be taught. When to throw it away, when to dump off, learning to read routes/defenses better. That's what makes me think he CAN be something and I get real pissed when other fans are saying he'll be nothing with barely half a season's starts under his belt. We all know he was rushed into the starting job, should have studied for more years, but we don't have that luxury. We all say that, but then expect him to play as if he had those years to learn? What do you expect? It takes 4 years to turn a high school punk into an engineer/accountant, etc.
but it should only take a year and a half to go from I-AA to NFL? Yes, it sucks we as fans must suffer through the learning experience, but it's what he are dealt with and to blame his trials on ineptitude is ridiculous and sends me into frenzies and previously seen tonight.

Last bold: It's easy to throw for longer when the safties bite on the hand off and leave a guy wide open behind them, compared to when the receivers are struggling to get off their man. So that's not Jackson's fault nearly as much as you're trying to pin on him.

Quick conclusion: Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to let you know where I was coming from with all the FUCK YOU's b/c as one fan, I have to endure the same losses as all the others, yet it pisses me off when so many cut this team short and say ridiculous things about the players. If we lose, I'll go on and live. We could be 0-16 and i'll live but still be a fan and when other fans are cheering for opponents and degrading our players, it pisses me off. And Caine, i'm not saying you are doing that, just saying generally. We all knew it'd be a bumpy ride with Jackson so raw, so let's act like we knew, rather than it being a big surprise. I agree we as fans should expect success with the time and money we put into watching and such, but to the same degree, Jackson should be able to expect the patience we all "supposedly" had at the beginning of the season. It is too soon to write off his career. Feel free to reply.

Brad

ultravikingfan
11-18-2007, 11:39 PM
^ Now that's one helluva post.
Good stuff bro.


I just hate to see intelligent members take the emphasis off of a good post with a "FU" or something like that.
Then people are not seeing the good content, they are seeing an attack and have the urge to attack back.

I do not mind people criticiaong our team, sometimes people go a little to far and criticize some petty things.
And other people say the same thing over and over and over in every thread (C Mac D).
Then you have the people who are never happy no matter what (CC).

Good post though brother!

Braddock
11-18-2007, 11:40 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


To get the same reaction to how T-joke looked. Wait until dark and shine your headlights on soem deer.. pretty much smae reaction. Improved? Are you serious? take the blinders off. WR's were open T-Joke can't throw the ball to them.
the INT in the nd zone T-Joke was looking at Rice the whole time. The guy that everyone ran out of town played better than he did today.


HE ran himself out of town. And I did NOT see the deer in the headlights look on Jackson, no where near what it used to be. And yes improved, you heard right. I call 77.3% comp and 170+ yards improvement. yes he had a pick, but dumb play call and the defender had to reach for it. Could have been place slightly better, but he's still learning. Take your purple hater blinders off, then i'll take mine off. And I was referring to Minnesota's receivers, not oaklands. Raiders were open just fine, Viking's not so much.

Garland Greene
11-18-2007, 11:49 PM
"Braddock" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

FUCK YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fucking serious?


To get the same reaction to how T-joke looked. Wait until dark and shine your headlights on soem deer.. pretty much smae reaction. Improved? Are you serious? take the blinders off. WR's were open T-Joke can't throw the ball to them.
the INT in the nd zone T-Joke was looking at Rice the whole time. The guy that everyone ran out of town played better than he did today.


HE ran himself out of town. And I did NOT see the deer in the headlights look on Jackson, no where near what it used to be. And yes improved, you heard right. I call 77.3% comp and 170+ yards improvement. yes he had a pick, but dumb play call and the defender had to reach for it. Could have been place slightly better, but he's still learning. Take your purple hater blinders off, then i'll take mine off. And I was referring to Minnesota's receivers, not oaklands. Raiders were open just fine, Viking's not so much.


CPep was on his way out long before he ran himself out. That is another argument.
Yeah I guess when you are completely terrible, and then you get to almost completly terriblethat
is an improvement.
I think I heard the smae argument about Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, and Tim Couch. Add T_hjoke to the that list of the great QB's that were "getting better" and just "need more time"

tgorsegner
11-19-2007, 12:02 AM
"Garland" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

floop YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fricken serious?


To get the same reaction to how T-joke looked. Wait until dark and shine your headlights on soem deer.. pretty much smae reaction. Improved? Are you serious? take the blinders off. WR's were open T-Joke can't throw the ball to them.
the INT in the nd zone T-Joke was looking at Rice the whole time. The guy that everyone ran out of town played better than he did today.


HE ran himself out of town. And I did NOT see the deer in the headlights look on Jackson, no where near what it used to be. And yes improved, you heard right. I call 77.3% comp and 170+ yards improvement. yes he had a pick, but dumb play call and the defender had to reach for it. Could have been place slightly better, but he's still learning. Take your purple hater blinders off, then i'll take mine off. And I was referring to Minnesota's receivers, not oaklands. Raiders were open just fine, Viking's not so much.


CPep was on his way out long before he ran himself out. That is another argument.
Yeah I guess when you are completely terrible, and then you get to almost completly terriblethat
is an improvement.
I think I heard the smae argument about Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, and Tim Couch. Add T_hjoke to the that list of the great QB's that were "getting better" and just "need more time"



I am not nearly a T-Jack supporter yet, but any rational person should be able to see SOME improvement over the course of the year. the amount is open to deliberation. Comparing him to a list of complete busts who were overhyped and are now out of the league seems a little premature. perhaps he will be a bust, perhaps he will be the next great QB. only time will tell.

Mikecarter81
11-19-2007, 12:08 AM
"Braddock" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:




My criticism of Jackson stands...I don't think he's very good.
I realize that the Jackson Fan Club have been waiting for another mediocre game (As opposed to the horrible ones) 1. so that they could start praising his average performance again....here it is.


But that's exactly what I saw...an average game from an average player against a bad team.
Taylor had that Defense so discombobulated that 2. even our almost non-existant passing game looked adequate today.

But, since that's exactly what we're saddled with for the rest of the season I agree with Singer in that I'd like to see us do more of it.
If we can move the ball on the come-back route, do it!!!
If that's the only pass the kids got, throw it!!!
If the receivers can't get open on anything else, call it!!!


It's time to stop screwing about wishing we could do all the things that the good teams can do and 3. settle for what WE can do.
We can run, and we can throw come-backs and dump-offs.
Once in awhile we can get a "go" or a crossing route in there, but only if things are going our way already.

But, at the end of the day, what has Jackson done that says - to me - "This is our Starting QB...and he should be"?
4. Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.

So, Braddock and those who feel similarly, I'm sorry if this doesn't meet with your approval, but until we have a few games in a row where Jackson is a cornerstone piece of the offense - not just along for the ride - I'll change my tune.
Until then, let me simply remind you that Sydney Rice threw a pass for 74 yards...and Tarvaris Jackson's longest was 15.
Good thing we have Rice to go in when we want to throw the long ball...

Caine


I've calmed down now, and being less emotional I think I can elaborate a little more precisely. BTW, I stand by everything I said earlier, just maybe should be toned it down. Regardless, one with my counterpoint:

To the first bold: Yes, I praised his average performance, that I cannot deny. The tone you present is one of exaggerating his performance, and while in an excited state I may do that, rationally I don't. His performance today was what we need, something to move the chains and set up the run. We should both be in agreement with that. Sure, it'd be nice to have the Manning or Brady, but this team is good enough to win with just a chain mover. I find myself having to praise Jackson a little more to counter balance all the negativity that is taken to an extreme as well. Just as there are those of us looking for a glimmer of hope, there are such looking for despair and pessimism. So in order to "push back" against all the nay sayers, I do praise slightly more than deserved. So without one, there would not be the other, at least in my case.

Second bold: Yes, our passing offense is awful. no secret there, but is it fair to say it IS improving? Jackson's accuracy is improving, just needs to learn when to lob it and when to zip it, and that's even been a little better. Williamson made some nice grabs (that second one from Rice especially) and Rice will be a SOLID receiver, with Wade as #3, where he fits well. Shiancoe is getting more involved and has soon he earns a little more of his contract (not all of it yet, but a little more than the beginning of the season). All our receivers but Troy are new to the system this year. Now the routes may not be hard to learn, but it takes time to build the chemistry with the QB, who btw has only started 10 times. Jackson, in comparison to vets, is really raw, but when compared to rooks, second years, isn't far behind.(leinart, croyle, YOUNG...geez bad). So while it isn't up to snuff, it's getting there slowly....... but surely.

Third bold: I agree completely. This I KIND OF spin to support Childress. His play calling is questionable for what we have now(to say the least), but I can start to see if the team really starts to come around and get it, that it may not be all that bad. Case in point, Oline blocking schemes. Real rugged at first, but now looking dominant. Those are vets, so they should pick up quick. The young guys need more learning curve time, especially the rooks, second years, b/c the game still seems fast to them. I know Peterson is an exception to this, but what isn't he an exception to?

Fourth Bold: I disagree whole heartedly with the Nothing expression. I will try to keep from over glorifying again, but bear with me. Jackson has all the natural talent you cannot reach. Arm strength, mobility, and quickness at that. What he doesn't have are the things that can be taught. When to throw it away, when to dump off, learning to read routes/defenses better. That's what makes me think he CAN be something and I get real pissed when other fans are saying he'll be nothing with barely half a season's starts under his belt. We all know he was rushed into the starting job, should have studied for more years, but we don't have that luxury. We all say that, but then expect him to play as if he had those years to learn? What do you expect? It takes 4 years to turn a high school punk into an engineer/accountant, etc.
but it should only take a year and a half to go from I-AA to NFL? Yes, it sucks we as fans must suffer through the learning experience, but it's what he are dealt with and to blame his trials on ineptitude is ridiculous and sends me into frenzies and previously seen tonight.

Last bold: It's easy to throw for longer when the safties bite on the hand off and leave a guy wide open behind them, compared to when the receivers are struggling to get off their man. So that's not Jackson's fault nearly as much as you're trying to pin on him.

Quick conclusion: Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to let you know where I was coming from with all the floop YOU's b/c as one fan, I have to endure the same losses as all the others, yet it pisses me off when so many cut this team short and say ridiculous things about the players. If we lose, I'll go on and live. We could be 0-16 and i'll live but still be a fan and when other fans are cheering for opponents and degrading our players, it pisses me off. And Caine, i'm not saying you are doing that, just saying generally. We all knew it'd be a bumpy ride with Jackson so raw, so let's act like we knew, rather than it being a big surprise. I agree we as fans should expect success with the time and money we put into watching and such, but to the same degree, Jackson should be able to expect the patience we all "supposedly" had at the beginning of the season. It is too soon to write off his career. Feel free to reply.

Brad


Brad

Thank you for taking the time and the patience to write a lot of what I felt.
It was a fair and balanced post for sure.

Mike

mountainviking
11-19-2007, 12:16 AM
Hard to say how good TJack is or may be only 7 starts in.
Could be great, someday.
Right now, he still looks raw and inexperienced most of the time.
He has the physical abilities, if he can catch on to reading defenses and making better decisions in general...and get some accuracy on that bomb of his, he could be great.
Or, at least a good backup.
Of course, if he had a Moss or someone even half as gifted with hands, he'd look a lot better!

I was a big fan of the big man, and I followed CPep's debacle very closely, and when it was all said and done, he was the one that was happy!!
Him and his wife wanted to move back home to sunny FL.
Childress was bummed that the guy he thought was going to be his star QB decided to leave town.
Sure, we don't know what was said behind closed doors, but what was said to the public, is what I repeated above.
Sure as hell sounds to me like the Chokepecker wanted out and forced it to happen with his ridiculous $$$$ demands and refusing to train/rehab with the team doctors and experts.

Braddock
11-19-2007, 12:16 AM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:




My criticism of Jackson stands...I don't think he's very good.
I realize that the Jackson Fan Club have been waiting for another mediocre game (As opposed to the horrible ones) 1. so that they could start praising his average performance again....here it is.


But that's exactly what I saw...an average game from an average player against a bad team.
Taylor had that Defense so discombobulated that 2. even our almost non-existant passing game looked adequate today.

But, since that's exactly what we're saddled with for the rest of the season I agree with Singer in that I'd like to see us do more of it.
If we can move the ball on the come-back route, do it!!!
If that's the only pass the kids got, throw it!!!
If the receivers can't get open on anything else, call it!!!


It's time to stop screwing about wishing we could do all the things that the good teams can do and 3. settle for what WE can do.
We can run, and we can throw come-backs and dump-offs.
Once in awhile we can get a "go" or a crossing route in there, but only if things are going our way already.

But, at the end of the day, what has Jackson done that says - to me - "This is our Starting QB...and he should be"?
4. Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.

So, Braddock and those who feel similarly, I'm sorry if this doesn't meet with your approval, but until we have a few games in a row where Jackson is a cornerstone piece of the offense - not just along for the ride - I'll change my tune.
Until then, let me simply remind you that Sydney Rice threw a pass for 74 yards...and Tarvaris Jackson's longest was 15.
Good thing we have Rice to go in when we want to throw the long ball...

Caine


I've calmed down now, and being less emotional I think I can elaborate a little more precisely. BTW, I stand by everything I said earlier, just maybe should be toned it down. Regardless, one with my counterpoint:

To the first bold: Yes, I praised his average performance, that I cannot deny. The tone you present is one of exaggerating his performance, and while in an excited state I may do that, rationally I don't. His performance today was what we need, something to move the chains and set up the run. We should both be in agreement with that. Sure, it'd be nice to have the Manning or Brady, but this team is good enough to win with just a chain mover. I find myself having to praise Jackson a little more to counter balance all the negativity that is taken to an extreme as well. Just as there are those of us looking for a glimmer of hope, there are such looking for despair and pessimism. So in order to "push back" against all the nay sayers, I do praise slightly more than deserved. So without one, there would not be the other, at least in my case.

Second bold: Yes, our passing offense is awful. no secret there, but is it fair to say it IS improving? Jackson's accuracy is improving, just needs to learn when to lob it and when to zip it, and that's even been a little better. Williamson made some nice grabs (that second one from Rice especially) and Rice will be a SOLID receiver, with Wade as #3, where he fits well. Shiancoe is getting more involved and has soon he earns a little more of his contract (not all of it yet, but a little more than the beginning of the season). All our receivers but Troy are new to the system this year. Now the routes may not be hard to learn, but it takes time to build the chemistry with the QB, who btw has only started 10 times. Jackson, in comparison to vets, is really raw, but when compared to rooks, second years, isn't far behind.(leinart, croyle, YOUNG...geez bad). So while it isn't up to snuff, it's getting there slowly....... but surely.

Third bold: I agree completely. This I KIND OF spin to support Childress. His play calling is questionable for what we have now(to say the least), but I can start to see if the team really starts to come around and get it, that it may not be all that bad. Case in point, Oline blocking schemes. Real rugged at first, but now looking dominant. Those are vets, so they should pick up quick. The young guys need more learning curve time, especially the rooks, second years, b/c the game still seems fast to them. I know Peterson is an exception to this, but what isn't he an exception to?

Fourth Bold: I disagree whole heartedly with the Nothing expression. I will try to keep from over glorifying again, but bear with me. Jackson has all the natural talent you cannot reach. Arm strength, mobility, and quickness at that. What he doesn't have are the things that can be taught. When to throw it away, when to dump off, learning to read routes/defenses better. That's what makes me think he CAN be something and I get real pissed when other fans are saying he'll be nothing with barely half a season's starts under his belt. We all know he was rushed into the starting job, should have studied for more years, but we don't have that luxury. We all say that, but then expect him to play as if he had those years to learn? What do you expect? It takes 4 years to turn a high school punk into an engineer/accountant, etc.
but it should only take a year and a half to go from I-AA to NFL? Yes, it sucks we as fans must suffer through the learning experience, but it's what he are dealt with and to blame his trials on ineptitude is ridiculous and sends me into frenzies and previously seen tonight.

Last bold: It's easy to throw for longer when the safties bite on the hand off and leave a guy wide open behind them, compared to when the receivers are struggling to get off their man. So that's not Jackson's fault nearly as much as you're trying to pin on him.

Quick conclusion: Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to let you know where I was coming from with all the floop YOU's b/c as one fan, I have to endure the same losses as all the others, yet it pisses me off when so many cut this team short and say ridiculous things about the players. If we lose, I'll go on and live. We could be 0-16 and i'll live but still be a fan and when other fans are cheering for opponents and degrading our players, it pisses me off. And Caine, i'm not saying you are doing that, just saying generally. We all knew it'd be a bumpy ride with Jackson so raw, so let's act like we knew, rather than it being a big surprise. I agree we as fans should expect success with the time and money we put into watching and such, but to the same degree, Jackson should be able to expect the patience we all "supposedly" had at the beginning of the season. It is too soon to write off his career. Feel free to reply.

Brad


Brad

Thank you for taking the time and the patience to write a lot of what I felt.
It was a fair and balanced post for sure.

Mike


Someone had to, and seeing as I was crying earlier, for my own dignity, I figured it must be me.

Frostbite
11-19-2007, 12:18 AM
Hmmm. Not trying to get into the middle of the T.jack debate or step on anyone here. I respect all of the opinions I have read through and there are some valid points in the posts.

There are Three camps as I see it. T.Jack supporters...T.Jack non-supporters...and Undecided. All have there various reason why. Frankly, (I am wondering) what does it matter at this point of the season with where the team is currently?? T.Jack is going to play (Most Likely) the rest of the way unless he gets banged up, so I...for one am willing to let this issue run it's course. In due time the Wheat will be seperated from the Chaff and we can make a better overall judgement as fans of what contribution T.Jack is capable of.

Do I think he's a Franchise Player?? No...not at this time. Could he possibly develope into one? I honestly don't see it there. Did he play better today than in his previous game. I would have to say yes based on his numbers and overall results.

Are the Giants going to be a tuffer test than the Raiders?? Absolutely. Will the rest of the season show us anything we don't already know about his future with us? Most likely Yes.

Consistency is a big issue here as I see it....which some could argue requires time as a starter to develope. A lot of what I see in his faults is directly related to playing time as a starter. I remember a very inexperienced Steve Young who many thought would not develope into a Franchise player either out here in S.F. Boy were they wrong....I am not sure I can put a finger on why I don't see T.Jack as a Franchise QB...It's more of a gut feeling I get when I watch him play. Not very statistical or scientific and I don't wish to state anything absolute about his not being able to possibly get there. I hope he can prove a lot of follks wrong....and make a believer out of me.

I would say that I am in the Un-decided Camp but leaning heavily toward the Non-supportive side. Still I will be the first to hope T.Jack proves me WRONG.

Cheers!

mountainviking
11-19-2007, 12:25 AM
"Frostbite" wrote:



I would say that I am in the Un-decided Camp but leaning heavily toward the Non-supportive side. Still I will be the first to hope T.Jack proves me WRONG.

Cheers!

I'd say I'm a supportive, non-believer
;)
He isn't ready to be the leader we need yet, But, potential is there and only time will tell what he's truly got...So, like frostbite says, lets hope for the best!!

SKOL!!

UTVikfan
11-19-2007, 12:58 AM
To me, that was one of the strangest games I have seen. Not sure I can put my finger on why, but, the whole time I was watching...all I could think, was this is just crazy.


TJack is in his first year, so to speak. So many before him have went through the same stuff, imo, its impossible to write him off. And impossible to crown him, cause he is....nm. He has all the physical stuff, just needs to learn. Only one way to do that. It hurts cause we have to endure it, but, Woodson, Ryan, Brohm...bring them in, its gonna be the same deal, most likely. A few (WR come to mind) have not had the curve..ABoldin, RMoss, etc, but, 99% go through the learning curve, and WR is easier than QB. Even AD (whats a learning curve in the nfl) is learning. I saw TJ throw passes away, I saw him run (and held my breath thinking OMFG!!! slide) I saw him zip passes in. I also saw him do some really stupid things. That is fine he is new. I LOVED the passes by Rice...holy rabbit outta the hat!!! But, the first one, was a floater behind the TE...and there wasn't a raider within miles of Shiancoe. The other was a wobble duck, that made me cry, til TWill picked it up off the carpet. But still, great play. The vikes wont' have anyone offering them picks for his QB skills though.

The D is sucking, and I hope our CB's learn fast. And someone comes to play like thier pants are on fire and the QB is water. I love Sharper and all, but, I think we might think about drafting someone like Taylor or Landry.

Our O-line ROCKS!! You do not lead the league in rushing with a bad O-Line, and the pass protection was decent today. they are earning their money. I was very critical of them earlier, but, can't argue with what they have done. Their jersey's should be in the HOF around AD's...seriously.

CTaylor did a tremendous job. And of course he is good, we all saw him last year. Do people really wanna have him traded? MMoore is a FA next year, and I bet someone signs him. IMO, its a case of, if CTaylor wants to be here or not. Class act, great RB...just not AD.

A win is a win, and the Giants game should be an interesting one. I am hoping we can get a body of work outta TJ to find out what we actually do have there. Is he a china doll (as Chili wondered kinda when asked)? is he gonna learn? With what he CAN do, will he be as good as can be drawn from only potential?....it will be kinda fun to find out. I a sad painful way, for a while, true. But, still fun.

El Vikingo
11-19-2007, 02:13 AM
"UTVikfan" wrote:




To me, that was one of the strangest games I have seen. Not sure I can put my finger on why, but, the whole time I was watching...all I could think, was this is just crazy.



You should have seen the Ravens -Browns games´final? That
last FG
must be a fake one or something....That´s pretty strange.

happy camper
11-19-2007, 02:15 AM
It seemed to me like the offense let their hair hang down this game, figuratively.

It seemed to me like they were not as concerned about making mistakes and just went out and tried to put some offense on the field.

Obviously, they made mistakes. But otherwise the ball was actually moving. I would much rather watch an offense that is less conservative which makes some mistakes but gains yards rather than a boring no yards conservative but without mistakes.

Does anyone know what I am talking about or am I just talking out of my a$$?

Vikes_King
11-19-2007, 02:43 AM
"happy" wrote:


It seemed to me like the offense let their hair hang down this game, figuratively.

It seemed to me like they were not as concerned about making mistakes and just went out and tried to put some offense on the field.

Obviously, they made mistakes. But otherwise the ball was actually moving. I would much rather watch an offense that is less conservative which makes some mistakes but gains yards rather than a boring no yards conservative but without mistakes.

Does anyone know what I am talking about or am I just talking out of my a$$?




no i know exactly what you mean.
but imo the offense HAD to come out and try and do something after completely embarassing themselves last week.
No first downs? Serioiusly?
:-X

El Vikingo
11-19-2007, 06:17 AM
"happy" wrote:


It seemed to me like the offense let their hair hang down this game, figuratively.

It seemed to me like they were not as concerned about making mistakes and just went out and tried to put some offense on the field.

Obviously, they made mistakes. But otherwise the ball was actually moving. I would much rather watch an offense that is less conservative which makes some mistakes but gains yards rather than a boring no yards conservative but without mistakes.

Does anyone know what I am talking about or am I just talking out of my a$$?




I had the same sensation than you,it was like we had nothing to lose and then go for it,I had liked to see more of that during the "real"season,althougth It is not over yet , we ll see If we got the guts to continue with the real KAO Off vs NY.

Caine
11-19-2007, 06:25 AM
"Braddock" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:




My criticism of Jackson stands...I don't think he's very good.
I realize that the Jackson Fan Club have been waiting for another mediocre game (As opposed to the horrible ones) 1. so that they could start praising his average performance again....here it is.


But that's exactly what I saw...an average game from an average player against a bad team.
Taylor had that Defense so discombobulated that 2. even our almost non-existant passing game looked adequate today.

But, since that's exactly what we're saddled with for the rest of the season I agree with Singer in that I'd like to see us do more of it.
If we can move the ball on the come-back route, do it!!!
If that's the only pass the kids got, throw it!!!
If the receivers can't get open on anything else, call it!!!


It's time to stop screwing about wishing we could do all the things that the good teams can do and 3. settle for what WE can do.
We can run, and we can throw come-backs and dump-offs.
Once in awhile we can get a "go" or a crossing route in there, but only if things are going our way already.

But, at the end of the day, what has Jackson done that says - to me - "This is our Starting QB...and he should be"?
4. Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.

So, Braddock and those who feel similarly, I'm sorry if this doesn't meet with your approval, but until we have a few games in a row where Jackson is a cornerstone piece of the offense - not just along for the ride - I'll change my tune.
Until then, let me simply remind you that Sydney Rice threw a pass for 74 yards...and Tarvaris Jackson's longest was 15.
Good thing we have Rice to go in when we want to throw the long ball...

Caine


I've calmed down now, and being less emotional I think I can elaborate a little more precisely. BTW, I stand by everything I said earlier, just maybe should be toned it down. Regardless, one with my counterpoint:

To the first bold: Yes, I praised his average performance, that I cannot deny. The tone you present is one of exaggerating his performance, and while in an excited state I may do that, rationally I don't. His performance today was what we need, something to move the chains and set up the run. We should both be in agreement with that. Sure, it'd be nice to have the Manning or Brady, but this team is good enough to win with just a chain mover. I find myself having to praise Jackson a little more to counter balance all the negativity that is taken to an extreme as well. Just as there are those of us looking for a glimmer of hope, there are such looking for despair and pessimism. So in order to "push back" against all the nay sayers, I do praise slightly more than deserved. So without one, there would not be the other, at least in my case.

Second bold: Yes, our passing offense is awful. no secret there, but is it fair to say it IS improving? Jackson's accuracy is improving, just needs to learn when to lob it and when to zip it, and that's even been a little better. Williamson made some nice grabs (that second one from Rice especially) and Rice will be a SOLID receiver, with Wade as #3, where he fits well. Shiancoe is getting more involved and has soon he earns a little more of his contract (not all of it yet, but a little more than the beginning of the season). All our receivers but Troy are new to the system this year. Now the routes may not be hard to learn, but it takes time to build the chemistry with the QB, who btw has only started 10 times. Jackson, in comparison to vets, is really raw, but when compared to rooks, second years, isn't far behind.(leinart, croyle, YOUNG...geez bad). So while it isn't up to snuff, it's getting there slowly....... but surely.

Third bold: I agree completely. This I KIND OF spin to support Childress. His play calling is questionable for what we have now(to say the least), but I can start to see if the team really starts to come around and get it, that it may not be all that bad. Case in point, Oline blocking schemes. Real rugged at first, but now looking dominant. Those are vets, so they should pick up quick. The young guys need more learning curve time, especially the rooks, second years, b/c the game still seems fast to them. I know Peterson is an exception to this, but what isn't he an exception to?

Fourth Bold: I disagree whole heartedly with the Nothing expression. I will try to keep from over glorifying again, but bear with me. Jackson has all the natural talent you cannot reach. Arm strength, mobility, and quickness at that. What he doesn't have are the things that can be taught. When to throw it away, when to dump off, learning to read routes/defenses better. That's what makes me think he CAN be something and I get real pissed when other fans are saying he'll be nothing with barely half a season's starts under his belt. We all know he was rushed into the starting job, should have studied for more years, but we don't have that luxury. We all say that, but then expect him to play as if he had those years to learn? What do you expect? It takes 4 years to turn a high school punk into an engineer/accountant, etc.
but it should only take a year and a half to go from I-AA to NFL? Yes, it sucks we as fans must suffer through the learning experience, but it's what he are dealt with and to blame his trials on ineptitude is ridiculous and sends me into frenzies and previously seen tonight.

Last bold: It's easy to throw for longer when the safties bite on the hand off and leave a guy wide open behind them, compared to when the receivers are struggling to get off their man. So that's not Jackson's fault nearly as much as you're trying to pin on him.

Quick conclusion: Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to let you know where I was coming from with all the floop YOU's b/c as one fan, I have to endure the same losses as all the others, yet it pisses me off when so many cut this team short and say ridiculous things about the players. If we lose, I'll go on and live. We could be 0-16 and i'll live but still be a fan and when other fans are cheering for opponents and degrading our players, it pisses me off. And Caine, i'm not saying you are doing that, just saying generally. We all knew it'd be a bumpy ride with Jackson so raw, so let's act like we knew, rather than it being a big surprise. I agree we as fans should expect success with the time and money we put into watching and such, but to the same degree, Jackson should be able to expect the patience we all "supposedly" had at the beginning of the season. It is too soon to write off his career. Feel free to reply.

Brad


I love this response.
All the points for debate are present...without the animosity.
So, now that we're sitting calmly and discussing this over a beer without waving baseball bats... ;)

A few points to ponder:

1:
I was listening to some older versions of the Bang Cartoon Radio hour tonight (Hilarious stuff, btw...podcasts and cartoons are awesome!!) and they had a former Ohio State player as the guest.
What he said about the NFL that stuck with me was this, "Every player in the NFL has the physical ability to be there, it's the mental that get's them".
To me, that makes perfect sense.
After all, the physical is evaluated forever.
So, while Jackson definately has the physical ability - good speed, cannon arm, etc - it's his mental development that concerns me.
And, being brutally honest, I'm not seeing what I feel to be enough improvement after 10 games to justify hanging the fate of the franchise on him.


I will grant you that he doesn't have a fantastic supporting cast, but at some point it should appear that he is outplaying his receivers...not that he simply can't get it there.
And, while there have been some drops, there have been far more badly thrown balls.

The Division 1-AA school thing...can that "excuse" really be used any more?
Either he's from a "small school" and not ready - in which case he should be sitting and learning - or that isn't really an issue and he succeeds or fails on his own merits - in which case the excuse is invalidated.
Which one do we go with?
I ask because the "Pro-Tarvaris" set seem to trot that excuse out week after week, but the application never seems to stay the same.

Finally, there is his durability to consider.
Groin, finger, noggin...this guy gets dinged up a lot.
Is he a "china doll" as Childress mentioned, or can he toughen up and play through (or, better yet, not get hurt)?
I don't know, but it isn't looking good so far.

2:
Much of what is wrong right now I lay at the feet of Childress.
After all, he had opportunities to alter the make up of the team, and didn't.
He calls the plays, comes up with the schemes, decides who plays and who sits, etc.
And, since we're not showing any significant improvement after almost 1 2/3 years, I begin to wonder when we will?
We've been able to beat some poor teams - and a slumping San Diego - this season.
In fact, we almost gave back the Chicago and Oakland games.


That, to me, is FRIGHTENING.
Do I want this guy to continue his plan?
HECK NO!!
And - tying it back to Jackson - Tarvaris becomes part of that package.
He is Childress' guy.
He's the guy that Brad said was ready to go, and would lead us into the future.
And, since that future has been bleak thus far, his failings get magnified by the "promises" Childress made.

3:
The Rice versus Jackson crack was delivered to respond to the "Floop" crack.
I don't really believe that Sidney should be the QB...after all, that 2nd pass was a duck
:o.
Although....

In the interest of time - and trying to close this out so we can get back on topic - I don't believe for a second that all of our woes are Jackson's fault...or even Childress' fault.
We have some glaring holes on our roster on both sides of the ball that desperately need to be plugged.
But we also have some bright spots...some VERY bright spots.
The trouble is, those bright spots have a life expectancy, and I want the best possible solutions brought in to take advantage of those bright spots before they expire.


Anyway, I could go on for hours, but I'll spare everyone from having to read any more tripe from me today.
Again, I thought your response was excellent...and not even close to too long.
Keep it up.

Caine

ultravikingfan
11-19-2007, 06:58 AM
Great post Caine.

I listened to an interview with a pro player (cannot remember who) but he talked about the gap in physical ability in the pro level being very close and the thing that seperated players was the mental aspect.

Also, the I-AA arguement is frugal.
Plenty of other players have played for I-AA or below and been just fine.
Jerry Rice played I-AA and if I am not mistaken he did just fine.
Also, do not forget John Randle as well.

TJ may get there, he may not.
I would love it if he did.
But if I were to wager on it, at this point my money would be against him.

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 08:20 AM
"Braddock" wrote:


OMFG, you all criticize him for not using swing passes, for taking too long to make reads, for not getting the ball out, and then when the pocket's collapsing and he throws out the check down to get SOME yards, then you get on him for that. The receivers need to get open for him to throw to them, and even when they aren't, he has the arm to buzz it in there.

floop YOU!!!!

You're god damned ridiculous. Anyone bashing TJ after this game is just concerned they might look stupid for calling for his head only 10 starts into his career. He wasn't GREAT but much improved.

We saw what BB starting does for our team last week. Are you fricken serious?

I know you are serious my friend, but the way you whacked em was absolutely hillllaryasssss.
;D

Good job.

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 08:33 AM
"Braddock" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:




My criticism of Jackson stands...I don't think he's very good.
I realize that the Jackson Fan Club have been waiting for another mediocre game (As opposed to the horrible ones) 1. so that they could start praising his average performance again....here it is.


But that's exactly what I saw...an average game from an average player against a bad team.
Taylor had that Defense so discombobulated that 2. even our almost non-existant passing game looked adequate today.

But, since that's exactly what we're saddled with for the rest of the season I agree with Singer in that I'd like to see us do more of it.
If we can move the ball on the come-back route, do it!!!
If that's the only pass the kids got, throw it!!!
If the receivers can't get open on anything else, call it!!!


It's time to stop screwing about wishing we could do all the things that the good teams can do and 3. settle for what WE can do.
We can run, and we can throw come-backs and dump-offs.
Once in awhile we can get a "go" or a crossing route in there, but only if things are going our way already.

But, at the end of the day, what has Jackson done that says - to me - "This is our Starting QB...and he should be"?
4. Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.

So, Braddock and those who feel similarly, I'm sorry if this doesn't meet with your approval, but until we have a few games in a row where Jackson is a cornerstone piece of the offense - not just along for the ride - I'll change my tune.
Until then, let me simply remind you that Sydney Rice threw a pass for 74 yards...and Tarvaris Jackson's longest was 15.
Good thing we have Rice to go in when we want to throw the long ball...

Caine


I've calmed down now, and being less emotional I think I can elaborate a little more precisely. BTW, I stand by everything I said earlier, just maybe should be toned it down. Regardless, one with my counterpoint:

To the first bold: Yes, I praised his average performance, that I cannot deny. The tone you present is one of exaggerating his performance, and while in an excited state I may do that, rationally I don't. His performance today was what we need, something to move the chains and set up the run. We should both be in agreement with that. Sure, it'd be nice to have the Manning or Brady, but this team is good enough to win with just a chain mover. I find myself having to praise Jackson a little more to counter balance all the negativity that is taken to an extreme as well. Just as there are those of us looking for a glimmer of hope, there are such looking for despair and pessimism. So in order to "push back" against all the nay sayers, I do praise slightly more than deserved. So without one, there would not be the other, at least in my case.

Second bold: Yes, our passing offense is awful. no secret there, but is it fair to say it IS improving? Jackson's accuracy is improving, just needs to learn when to lob it and when to zip it, and that's even been a little better. Williamson made some nice grabs (that second one from Rice especially) and Rice will be a SOLID receiver, with Wade as #3, where he fits well. Shiancoe is getting more involved and has soon he earns a little more of his contract (not all of it yet, but a little more than the beginning of the season). All our receivers but Troy are new to the system this year. Now the routes may not be hard to learn, but it takes time to build the chemistry with the QB, who btw has only started 10 times. Jackson, in comparison to vets, is really raw, but when compared to rooks, second years, isn't far behind.(leinart, croyle, YOUNG...geez bad). So while it isn't up to snuff, it's getting there slowly....... but surely.

Third bold: I agree completely. This I KIND OF spin to support Childress. His play calling is questionable for what we have now(to say the least), but I can start to see if the team really starts to come around and get it, that it may not be all that bad. Case in point, Oline blocking schemes. Real rugged at first, but now looking dominant. Those are vets, so they should pick up quick. The young guys need more learning curve time, especially the rooks, second years, b/c the game still seems fast to them. I know Peterson is an exception to this, but what isn't he an exception to?

Fourth Bold: I disagree whole heartedly with the Nothing expression. I will try to keep from over glorifying again, but bear with me. Jackson has all the natural talent you cannot reach. Arm strength, mobility, and quickness at that. What he doesn't have are the things that can be taught. When to throw it away, when to dump off, learning to read routes/defenses better. That's what makes me think he CAN be something and I get real pissed when other fans are saying he'll be nothing with barely half a season's starts under his belt. We all know he was rushed into the starting job, should have studied for more years, but we don't have that luxury. We all say that, but then expect him to play as if he had those years to learn? What do you expect? It takes 4 years to turn a high school punk into an engineer/accountant, etc.
but it should only take a year and a half to go from I-AA to NFL? Yes, it sucks we as fans must suffer through the learning experience, but it's what he are dealt with and to blame his trials on ineptitude is ridiculous and sends me into frenzies and previously seen tonight.

Last bold: It's easy to throw for longer when the safties bite on the hand off and leave a guy wide open behind them, compared to when the receivers are struggling to get off their man. So that's not Jackson's fault nearly as much as you're trying to pin on him.

Quick conclusion: Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to let you know where I was coming from with all the floop YOU's b/c as one fan, I have to endure the same losses as all the others, yet it pisses me off when so many cut this team short and say ridiculous things about the players. If we lose, I'll go on and live. We could be 0-16 and i'll live but still be a fan and when other fans are cheering for opponents and degrading our players, it pisses me off. And Caine, i'm not saying you are doing that, just saying generally. We all knew it'd be a bumpy ride with Jackson so raw, so let's act like we knew, rather than it being a big surprise. I agree we as fans should expect success with the time and money we put into watching and such, but to the same degree, Jackson should be able to expect the patience we all "supposedly" had at the beginning of the season. It is too soon to write off his career. Feel free to reply.

Brad

Very nice my friend.
Very nice indeed.

;D

I see the potential, I always have.
What I am worried about is the fact that he has oft been injured.
I sure hope they were all flukes.
::)

Zeus
11-19-2007, 08:36 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that shit team and Pep.

Crowd
Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.


I was sitting with MarsTC and Sno, and my voice is rather scratchy this AM.
The crowd was plenty loud - I'm not sure what CBS's crappy TV coverage showed, but I thought the home crowd did a pretty good job of getting on Daunte.

=Z=

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 08:59 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Great post Caine.

I listened to an interview with a pro player (cannot remember who) but he talked about the gap in physical ability in the pro level being very close and the thing that seperated players was the mental aspect.

Also, the I-AA arguement is frugal.
Plenty of other players have played for I-AA or below and been just fine.
Jerry Rice played I-AA and if I am not mistaken he did just fine.
Also, do not forget John Randle as well.

TJ may get there, he may not.
I would love it if he did.
But if I were to wager on it, at this point my money would be against him.

I agree.
Caine always seems to make a great post.
Do I agree with all he says?
NO, but he makes a good argument.

One point to ponder in all of this is what is the role of the QB in this scheme/system that the staff is trying to employ.
Is it the star QB that runs around making plays (i.e. Brett Favre) or is it the buy who manages a game (dinks and dunks) without making mistakes that cost the game?

At this point in the maturation of the young Jedi I believe it is the latter.
Especially when you look a the talent around him.


Our WR's (young) struggle at times getting off the line.
If they do get off the line and are covered they don't understand (quick enough) how to get open/come back to the QB.

OL.
I was on em earlier this year, but have cut them some slack lately.
They are doing a better job in pass protection and look great in the running game, however, I challenge you guys to watch the way the OL for the Pats work.
Not only is the pocket huge but (a little known fact here) they actually move thier defenders out of the passing lanes giving the QB lots of room to step up, lots of time to make multiple reads and great vision to see down the field.
That is when you will see his cannon for an arm become effective in the deep game as we all know, deep/deeper passing is really reliant on the ability to see the WR running the route, having time to execute the proper mechanics of the throw and then deliver the ball at the exact point and time.
I for one don't think we are quiet there yet. The pocket is there (albeit still a bit small, they game him time to make reads and I saw some clear passing lanes being established.


By the end of the year I believe this group will be playing at a pretty good level.
Will all of them be pro-bowlers?
I doubt it, however, they will be a solid line that this or any QB will feel comfortable around.


Back to TJ, I for one do believe he will get there and I believe he can be a very effective QB in this league however, he has one detractor in my book.......

INJURIES.

Barring more of them, the development process will continue.
At the end of the year we will know what we have, a QB for the future, or a very good backup to the next guy they bring in.

I for one hope he is the real deal, cause if he isn't, we are still 2 or 3 years away from a guy who can manage the team and a long ways away from the Franchise guy everyone seems to want.

(Note: I don't think we need a Franchise QB.
We need a good QB with a Franchise RB, a Franchise WR and a hell of a good OL supporting them.)

digital420
11-19-2007, 09:51 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Great post Caine.

I listened to an interview with a pro player (cannot remember who) but he talked about the gap in physical ability in the pro level being very close and the thing that seperated players was the mental aspect.

Also, the I-AA arguement is frugal.
Plenty of other players have played for I-AA or below and been just fine.
Jerry Rice played I-AA and if I am not mistaken he did just fine.
Also, do not forget John Randle as well.

TJ may get there, he may not.
I would love it if he did.
But if I were to wager on it, at this point my money would be against him.

I agree.
Caine always seems to make a great post.
Do I agree with all he says?
NO, but he makes a good argument.

One point to ponder in all of this is what is the role of the QB in this scheme/system that the staff is trying to employ.
Is it the star QB that runs around making plays (i.e. Brett Favre) or is it the buy who manages a game (dinks and dunks) without making mistakes that cost the game?

At this point in the maturation of the young Jedi I believe it is the latter.
Especially when you look a the talent around him.


Our WR's (young) struggle at times getting off the line.
If they do get off the line and are covered they don't understand (quick enough) how to get open/come back to the QB.

OL.
I was on em earlier this year, but have cut them some slack lately.
They are doing a better job in pass protection and look great in the running game, however, I challenge you guys to watch the way the OL for the Pats work.
Not only is the pocket huge but (a little known fact here) they actually move thier defenders out of the passing lanes giving the QB lots of room to step up, lots of time to make multiple reads and great vision to see down the field.
That is when you will see his cannon for an arm become effective in the deep game as we all know, deep/deeper passing is really reliant on the ability to see the WR running the route, having time to execute the proper mechanics of the throw and then deliver the ball at the exact point and time.
I for one don't think we are quiet there yet. The pocket is there (albeit still a bit small, they game him time to make reads and I saw some clear passing lanes being established.


By the end of the year I believe this group will be playing at a pretty good level.
Will all of them be pro-bowlers?
I doubt it, however, they will be a solid line that this or any QB will feel comfortable around.


Back to TJ, I for one do believe he will get there and I believe he can be a very effective QB in this league however, he has one detractor in my book.......

INJURIES.

Barring more of them, the development process will continue.
At the end of the year we will know what we have, a QB for the future, or a very good backup to the next guy they bring in.

I for one hope he is the real deal, cause if he isn't, we are still 2 or 3 years away from a guy who can manage the team and a long ways away from the Franchise guy everyone seems to want.

(Note: I don't think we need a Franchise QB.
We need a good QB with a Franchise RB, a Franchise WR and a hell of a good OL supporting them.)


Mar.. you hit one of the key parts of Tjacks development..

our WR's..
They are talanted.. and i won't take away from their ability to catch.. but.. route running and timing with a QB is another level that I havn't seen the 2 parts of the equation connect with.. Not with Tjack, BB,
or holycrap.

This i think is the aspect that will improve first. once we have timing.. and route timing down.. i think we'll see a lot better air attack.. ok, nothing like.. every pass is a Moss TD.. but it'll be supported by the best rushing tandem in the NFL..
watch.. we'll see more trick plays.. and play actions.. and when the timing is in sync.. we'll see some of that arm strength Tjack has.

it's not far off.. that light isn't the train.. it's the end of the tunnel!!

DiGiTaL

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 09:58 AM
"digital420" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Great post Caine.

I listened to an interview with a pro player (cannot remember who) but he talked about the gap in physical ability in the pro level being very close and the thing that seperated players was the mental aspect.

Also, the I-AA arguement is frugal.
Plenty of other players have played for I-AA or below and been just fine.
Jerry Rice played I-AA and if I am not mistaken he did just fine.
Also, do not forget John Randle as well.

TJ may get there, he may not.
I would love it if he did.
But if I were to wager on it, at this point my money would be against him.

I agree.
Caine always seems to make a great post.
Do I agree with all he says?
NO, but he makes a good argument.

One point to ponder in all of this is what is the role of the QB in this scheme/system that the staff is trying to employ.
Is it the star QB that runs around making plays (i.e. Brett Favre) or is it the buy who manages a game (dinks and dunks) without making mistakes that cost the game?

At this point in the maturation of the young Jedi I believe it is the latter.
Especially when you look a the talent around him.


Our WR's (young) struggle at times getting off the line.
If they do get off the line and are covered they don't understand (quick enough) how to get open/come back to the QB.

OL.
I was on em earlier this year, but have cut them some slack lately.
They are doing a better job in pass protection and look great in the running game, however, I challenge you guys to watch the way the OL for the Pats work.
Not only is the pocket huge but (a little known fact here) they actually move thier defenders out of the passing lanes giving the QB lots of room to step up, lots of time to make multiple reads and great vision to see down the field.
That is when you will see his cannon for an arm become effective in the deep game as we all know, deep/deeper passing is really reliant on the ability to see the WR running the route, having time to execute the proper mechanics of the throw and then deliver the ball at the exact point and time.
I for one don't think we are quiet there yet. The pocket is there (albeit still a bit small, they game him time to make reads and I saw some clear passing lanes being established.


By the end of the year I believe this group will be playing at a pretty good level.
Will all of them be pro-bowlers?
I doubt it, however, they will be a solid line that this or any QB will feel comfortable around.


Back to TJ, I for one do believe he will get there and I believe he can be a very effective QB in this league however, he has one detractor in my book.......

INJURIES.

Barring more of them, the development process will continue.
At the end of the year we will know what we have, a QB for the future, or a very good backup to the next guy they bring in.

I for one hope he is the real deal, cause if he isn't, we are still 2 or 3 years away from a guy who can manage the team and a long ways away from the Franchise guy everyone seems to want.

(Note: I don't think we need a Franchise QB.
We need a good QB with a Franchise RB, a Franchise WR and a hell of a good OL supporting them.)


Mar.. you hit one of the key parts of Tjacks development..

our WR's..
They are talanted.. and i won't take away from their ability to catch.. but.. route running and timing with a QB is another level that I havn't seen the 2 parts of the equation connect with.. Not with Tjack, BB,
or holycrap.

This i think is the aspect that will improve first. once we have timing.. and route timing down.. i think we'll see a lot better air attack.. ok, nothing like.. every pass is a Moss TD.. but it'll be supported by the best rushing tandem in the NFL..
watch.. we'll see more trick plays.. and play actions.. and when the timing is in sync.. we'll see some of that arm strength Tjack has.

it's not far off.. that light isn't the train.. it's the end of the tunnel!!

DiGiTaL


Thanks my friend.
Probably is, I have been looking at that light all year. Sure wish it would get closer faster.


Sometimes it is hard to be an optimist with this team. ;D

bleedpurple
11-19-2007, 10:08 AM
By far the best game TJ has had as a pro... for some reason it seems like we opened it up a little against oakland.. additionally, in all the games we won so far one thing has been consistent.. atleast 1 pass of 50 yards or more.. it seems to open everything up..

with that said, anyone notice when our offense explodes, which is to say it rarely happens, that our defense plays GOD AWFUL and gives up alot of points.. with the exceptin of the SD game?


hmm., must be a coincidence.. but nonetheless, troubling...

offense needs to hold onto the ball better.. other than that, a decent win... Our best performance overall on offense all year..

SKOL
11-19-2007, 10:40 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that pooh team and Pep.

Crowd
Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.


I was sitting with MarsTC and Sno, and my voice is rather scratchy this AM.
The crowd was plenty loud - I'm not sure what CBS's crappy TV coverage showed, but I thought the home crowd did a pretty good job of getting on Daunte.

=Z=


Zeus is right, the crowd was plenty loud.
My voice was gone after the game and is just starting to come back now.


I only remember one time where the crowd was lulled to sleep a bit... Daunte tried to shout out to his receivers.
The crowd took offense to it and didn't let up after that (at least that's my impression because it's hard to hear the entire crowd when you're screaming your own head off).

tastywaves
11-19-2007, 11:03 AM
The DB play.
Griffin and Macauley both got burned a number of times as mentioned.
They seem to be playing short first and long second.
Their eyes are glued onto the line of scrimmage play while their receiver slips by them, I know the CB needs to have responsibility for both, but for a young CB, I would want to make sure I defend the deep threat first before worrying about coming up defending a running play at the line of scrimmage.
Might also be why we notice Griffin doing so well in run support.
With a deep cushion, this works well for short to intermediate plays, the Corner can basically get in on either play, but he gets burned when he sits their trying to figure out what's going on.
Safeties -- Sharper seems to be more concerned with his INT totals then defending the play first.
He can play better and needs to step it up.
Better pass rush will obviously help these guys, reduce the routes and enable more aggressive play.
When a QB has time, he will burn you.
Look at Brady, he sits back there all day long (and I mean all fricken day long), there is no surprise he is having the year that he is.
Do you think the corners he is going against all suck?
Buffalo gave up 8 TD's to this guy.
Someone has to figure out how to put this guy on his ass, he's making the rest of the league look silly (but that's another discussion).

4th and inches to run out the clock.
A run oriented team that is having their way needs to take this chance, 20 yard in field position is not enough of a gain to outweigh the ability to close out a game.

5 TO's against any other team (except maybe Miami) is a loss.
This is the only reason this game was close, we should have blown them away.

Chester played well like we've saw from him before, no big surprise.
Still think he is prime trade bait, because of his
value.

TJ looked better today, but far from being crowned next year's starter.
Hope he can play out the rest of the year to better evaluate this guy.

COJOMAY
11-19-2007, 11:37 AM
I think I've read most of the posts and most of the articles and I don't remember anyone, not even the newspapers mentioning what I think was the most outstanding, weird, and unusual play of the day. That was Taylor's last touchdown from about the 6 yard line where he leaped on his linemen's backs and virtually let him carry him into the end zone with their rush. If that doesn't prove to people how the Vikings down linemen totally out-played the Raiders line, nothing does.

jargomcfargo
11-19-2007, 11:57 AM
Nice to win again.
Appears to be another sucker game!
Team appears to do some things that would normally lead one to believe they may be improving. However, we beat Oakland. Oakland is terrible.
If the Vikings can play like this against a decent team or even a couple weeks in a row, I would be encouraged.
Until then it appears they are improving, but still a bottom third of the league team at best.

Suick
11-19-2007, 12:32 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


I think I've read most of the posts and most of the articles and I don't remember anyone, not even the newspapers mentioning what I think was the most outstanding, weird, and unusual play of the day. That was Taylor's last touchdown from about the 6 yard line where he leaped on his linemen's backs and virtually let him carry him into the end zone with their rush. If that doesn't prove to people how the Vikings down linemen totally out-played the Raiders line, nothing does.


That was very strange. It was like he was body surfing in a mosh pit.

Does anyone think T Will should be running back kicks?
He's terrible. Seems like he runs to the 20, finds someone to run into and hits the turf. Very aggravating.

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 12:46 PM
"Suick" wrote:


"COJOMAY" wrote:


I think I've read most of the posts and most of the articles and I don't remember anyone, not even the newspapers mentioning what I think was the most outstanding, weird, and unusual play of the day. That was Taylor's last touchdown from about the 6 yard line where he leaped on his linemen's backs and virtually let him carry him into the end zone with their rush. If that doesn't prove to people how the Vikings down linemen totally out-played the Raiders line, nothing does.


That was very strange. It was like he was body surfing in a mosh pit.

Does anyone think T Will should be running back kicks?
He's terrible. Seems like he runs to the 20, finds someone to run into and hits the turf. Very aggravating.

He definately is no Josh Cribbs (leads with 1,230 yds after 38 attempts) however, he is 32nd (12 attempts) out of 50 players to return KO's. He is tied for 22nd with a 56 yarder when it comes to longest return.

Maybe you want them to go back to AD, he is ranked 28th.
;D (JK).

Seriously, not everyone is gonna return every kick for a TD all the time.
He is doing fine, catches the ball, gets positive yardage and doesn't cough it up (to many times) when called upon.
Hell even Hester has 2 fumbles to T-wills one.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=D74E268D6316529AA2B594888A7CF764?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=KICK_RETURNS_FUMBLES&d-447263-n=1

Suick
11-19-2007, 12:54 PM
At least he let Jana "Cow" Ski's last kick go OB.

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 01:01 PM
"Suick" wrote:


At least he let Jana "Cow" Ski's last kick go OB.

You are the only one to mention that other than me.
Hell I even threw it out in my Post Game Observation that it is the second time, since the AD snaffu that we have seen that.
Both times since we have wound up with the ball on the 40.
:o

Just plain silly to think that we wouldn't work on that stuff.

I am still waiting for a certain poster (I won't mention his name cause I like him) to hang his ass again with me on that little tidbit..
;D

jargomcfargo
11-19-2007, 01:03 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


"COJOMAY" wrote:


I think I've read most of the posts and most of the articles and I don't remember anyone, not even the newspapers mentioning what I think was the most outstanding, weird, and unusual play of the day. That was Taylor's last touchdown from about the 6 yard line where he leaped on his linemen's backs and virtually let him carry him into the end zone with their rush. If that doesn't prove to people how the Vikings down linemen totally out-played the Raiders line, nothing does.


That was very strange. It was like he was body surfing in a mosh pit.

Does anyone think T Will should be running back kicks?
He's terrible. Seems like he runs to the 20, finds someone to run into and hits the turf. Very aggravating.

He definately is no Josh Cribbs (leads with 1,230 yds after 38 attempts) however, he is 32nd (12 attempts) out of 50 players to return KO's. He is tied for 22nd with a 56 yarder when it comes to longest return.

Maybe you want them to go back to AD, he is ranked 28th.
;D (JK).

Seriously, not everyone is gonna return every kick for a TD all the time.
He is doing fine, catches the ball, gets positive yardage and doesn't cough it up (to many times) when called upon.
Hell even Hester has 2 fumbles to T-wills one.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=D74E268D6316529AA2B594888A7CF764?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=KICK_RETURNS_FUMBLES&d-447263-n=1


T-Will seems a little hesitant to get hit and a little uncoordinated. But did you see his blazing speed on the one where he did run a ways. He can't cut and juke well but I can see why he is back there with all that potential. I personally like the way they mix it up. And I liked Gordon's return.

marstc09
11-19-2007, 10:57 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that shit team and Pep.

TJ
Although he showed signs of improvement, still not happy with his performance.
His decision making on the pick and the massive amount of time he wants to stand in the pocket is not a good thing.
He is money on passes 10 yards or less, but still has a problem getting it downfield.

Chilly
I am not a Chilly fan, but you have to give him credit for the gadget plays.
They worked and even got us a score.
And no, he is not a genius yet.

;)

Chester
This is an awesome RB!
I loved him last year and he is still awesome this year!
Way to go buddy!

O-Line
Awesome on the runs, still needs be a little more solid on the Pass Blocking.

Edwards & Robison
I love these guys!
They are playing great!
Both young and are gonna get better.

James
It's about damn time he gets a sack!

Run Defense
Solid once again.
Good job.

Pass Defense
Ugh. Not too happy here again.
Some really bad coverage.
Who the hell was responsible for Madsen on that TD?
Cedric is not playing well eithe, he is the new Smoot.
Mccaukley, I hope he gets a whole lot better.


Greenway
Pull you head out of your ass!
Sit on the pick, do not run it!
Jeez!

Longwell
Perfect!

Kluwe
Hitting "coffin corner"
:)

Overall
Not bad.
When we have opportunities we need to put points on the board.
The turnovers were ugly and thankfully Joakland has their own offensive woes.


Crowd
Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.




If everyone was as loud as him we would have one hell of a crowd noise. It blows my mind when people go to the game and sit motionless. Like this couple that I accidentally spilled a drop of beer on. Get up and cheer.

PurplePeopleEaters
11-19-2007, 11:11 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that shit team and Pep.

TJ
Although he showed signs of improvement, still not happy with his performance.
His decision making on the pick and the massive amount of time he wants to stand in the pocket is not a good thing.
He is money on passes 10 yards or less, but still has a problem getting it downfield.

Chilly
I am not a Chilly fan, but you have to give him credit for the gadget plays.
They worked and even got us a score.
And no, he is not a genius yet.
;)

Chester
This is an awesome RB!
I loved him last year and he is still awesome this year!
Way to go buddy!

O-Line
Awesome on the runs, still needs be a little more solid on the Pass Blocking.

Edwards & Robison
I love these guys!
They are playing great!
Both young and are gonna get better.

James
It's about damn time he gets a sack!

Run Defense
Solid once again.
Good job.

Pass Defense
Ugh. Not too happy here again.
Some really bad coverage.
Who the hell was responsible for Madsen on that TD?
Cedric is not playing well eithe, he is the new Smoot.
Mccaukley, I hope he gets a whole lot better.


Greenway
Pull you head out of your ass!
Sit on the pick, do not run it!
Jeez!

Longwell
Perfect!

Kluwe
Hitting "coffin corner"
:)

Overall
Not bad.
When we have opportunities we need to put points on the board.
The turnovers were ugly and thankfully Joakland has their own offensive woes.


Crowd
Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.




If everyone was as loud as him we would have one hell of a crowd noise. It blows my mind when people go to the game and sit motionless. Like this couple that I accidentally spilled a drop of beer on. Get up and cheer.


People always look at me like I'm stupid when I stand up on 3rd downs and start yelling. Shouldn't I be looking at them like they're stupid? Normally the crowd is pretty good about stuff like that but there's usually one or two people who are perfectly able and just refuse to stand or make any noise whatsoever. Luckily the games i've been to have been early in the season and the crowd noise has been intense.

marstc09
11-19-2007, 11:36 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that shit team and Pep.

TJ
Although he showed signs of improvement, still not happy with his performance.
His decision making on the pick and the massive amount of time he wants to stand in the pocket is not a good thing.
He is money on passes 10 yards or less, but still has a problem getting it downfield.

Chilly
I am not a Chilly fan, but you have to give him credit for the gadget plays.
They worked and even got us a score.
And no, he is not a genius yet.

;)

Chester
This is an awesome RB!
I loved him last year and he is still awesome this year!
Way to go buddy!

O-Line
Awesome on the runs, still needs be a little more solid on the Pass Blocking.

Edwards & Robison
I love these guys!
They are playing great!
Both young and are gonna get better.

James
It's about damn time he gets a sack!

Run Defense
Solid once again.
Good job.

Pass Defense
Ugh. Not too happy here again.
Some really bad coverage.
Who the hell was responsible for Madsen on that TD?
Cedric is not playing well eithe, he is the new Smoot.
Mccaukley, I hope he gets a whole lot better.


Greenway
Pull you head out of your ass!
Sit on the pick, do not run it!
Jeez!

Longwell
Perfect!

Kluwe
Hitting "coffin corner"
:)

Overall
Not bad.
When we have opportunities we need to put points on the board.
The turnovers were ugly and thankfully Joakland has their own offensive woes.


Crowd
Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.




If everyone was as loud as him we would have one hell of a crowd noise. It blows my mind when people go to the game and sit motionless. Like this couple that I accidentally spilled a drop of beer on. Get up and cheer.


People always look at me like I'm stupid when I stand up on 3rd downs and start yelling. Shouldn't I be looking at them like they're stupid? Normally the crowd is pretty good about stuff like that but there's usually one or two people who are perfectly able and just refuse to stand or make any noise whatsoever. Luckily the games i've been to have been early in the season and the crowd noise has been intense.


YES

SKOL
11-20-2007, 02:20 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.

If everyone was as loud as him we would have one hell of a crowd noise. It blows my mind when people go to the game and sit motionless. Like this couple that I accidentally spilled a drop of beer on. Get up and cheer.

People always look at me like I'm stupid when I stand up on 3rd downs and start yelling. Shouldn't I be looking at them like they're stupid? Normally the crowd is pretty good about stuff like that but there's usually one or two people who are perfectly able and just refuse to stand or make any noise whatsoever. Luckily the games i've been to have been early in the season and the crowd noise has been intense.

YES

I told a guy once that he might as well watch the game from his couch - he'd get a better view.
I probably wrecked his gameday experience (he was pretty miffed) but I didn't care.
;D

singersp
11-20-2007, 05:46 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that shit team and Pep.

TJ
Although he showed signs of improvement, still not happy with his performance.
His decision making on the pick and the massive amount of time he wants to stand in the pocket is not a good thing.
He is money on passes 10 yards or less, but still has a problem getting it downfield.

Chilly

I am not a Chilly fan, but you have to give him credit for the gadget plays.
They worked and even got us a score.
And no, he is not a genius yet.

;)



Are you sure that was Chilly's call? Or was it Bevell's?

Supposedly Chilly turned the play calling over to Bevell, but we cannot be sure who is actually calling them.

Vikes_King
11-20-2007, 06:00 AM
"SKOL" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.

If everyone was as loud as him we would have one hell of a crowd noise. It blows my mind when people go to the game and sit motionless. Like this couple that I accidentally spilled a drop of beer on. Get up and cheer.

People always look at me like I'm stupid when I stand up on 3rd downs and start yelling. Shouldn't I be looking at them like they're stupid? Normally the crowd is pretty good about stuff like that but there's usually one or two people who are perfectly able and just refuse to stand or make any noise whatsoever. Luckily the games i've been to have been early in the season and the crowd noise has been intense.

YES

I told a guy once that he might as well watch the game from his couch - he'd get a better view.
I probably wrecked his gameday experience (he was pretty miffed) but I didn't care.
;D



when i went to the san diego game, there was a lady in front of me that turned around and glared as me and my friends everytime we got up and began to yell on 3rd downs or everytime AD touched the ball for that matter.

i wish i was old enough to have bought a beer to "accidently" spill on her too
;D

ultravikingfan
11-20-2007, 08:03 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that shit team and Pep.

TJ
Although he showed signs of improvement, still not happy with his performance.
His decision making on the pick and the massive amount of time he wants to stand in the pocket is not a good thing.
He is money on passes 10 yards or less, but still has a problem getting it downfield.

Chilly

I am not a Chilly fan, but you have to give him credit for the gadget plays.
They worked and even got us a score.
And no, he is not a genius yet.

;)



Are you sure that was Chilly's call? Or was it Bevell's?

Supposedly Chilly turned the play calling over to Bevell, but we cannot be sure who is actually calling them.




Hey, Chilly needs all the help he can get.
I am sure it was part of their combined game plan to come out with that.
A lot of thought goes into the opening drive on the week before the game.

Chilly hater!

BleedinPandG
11-20-2007, 08:05 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that pooh team and Pep.

TJ
Although he showed signs of improvement, still not happy with his performance.
His decision making on the pick and the massive amount of time he wants to stand in the pocket is not a good thing.
He is money on passes 10 yards or less, but still has a problem getting it downfield.

Chilly

I am not a Chilly fan, but you have to give him credit for the gadget plays.
They worked and even got us a score.
And no, he is not a genius yet.
;)



Are you sure that was Chilly's call? Or was it Bevell's?

Supposedly Chilly turned the play calling over to Bevell, but we cannot be sure who is actually calling them.




According to the press conference, it was Chilly's call from a few days before.
I believe the Vikings still script their first series so I'm guessing Chlidress is far move involved in that series then the rest of the game's play calling.

singersp
11-20-2007, 08:50 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Thank God we beat the Raiduhs!
I did not want to lose to that shit team and Pep.

TJ
Although he showed signs of improvement, still not happy with his performance.
His decision making on the pick and the massive amount of time he wants to stand in the pocket is not a good thing.
He is money on passes 10 yards or less, but still has a problem getting it downfield.

Chilly

I am not a Chilly fan, but you have to give him credit for the gadget plays.
They worked and even got us a score.
And no, he is not a genius yet.

;)



Are you sure that was Chilly's call? Or was it Bevell's?

Supposedly Chilly turned the play calling over to Bevell, but we cannot be sure who is actually calling them.




Hey, Chilly needs all the help he can get.
I am sure it was part of their combined game plan to come out with that.
A lot of thought goes into the opening drive on the week before the game.

Chilly hater!


LOL! I'm neither a Chilly hater or Chilly lover. I'm still walking the fence inregards to him.

The gadget play (Rice) was a joint decision that they had planned to use;

"That was part of our openers, part of our first 15 (scripted plays), one that we've been working on for quite a few weeks," he said. "We thought it had enough cooking in the oven, so we thought it was time to pull it out."

Shiancoe said the Vikings practiced the play "just once" during the week, but Bevell and coach Brad Childress said they had been thinking about it since getting a look at Rice's arm during training camp.

"He has a big hand, and he can yoke the football," Childress said. "We've always known he could do that."

Added quarterback Tarvaris Jackson: "He can get it like 65, 70 yards."

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_7501525?nclick_check=1

Prophet
11-20-2007, 09:14 AM
"singersp" wrote:


...
LOL! I'm neither a Chilly hater or Chilly lover. I'm still walking the fence inregards to him....

Would you sleep with him if it meant a SB victory for the Vikings?

ConnecticutViking
11-20-2007, 12:00 PM
Couple of things I am tired of...

1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?
2.
I'm tired of seeing people post who should start at QB.
When Brad Johnson was down... TJ should be our QB,
When TJ was down... Bollinger should be our QB, When Bollinger was down... Rice should be our QB!


Just Face it... They all suck!
Very rarely do you find a QB in the rough.
These guys were not blue chip out of college.
They are backups at best!
Find a free agent or draft a star.
But the Vikes really don't have time to develop a guy from scratch.

Zeus
11-20-2007, 12:05 PM
"SKOL" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.

If everyone was as loud as him we would have one hell of a crowd noise. It blows my mind when people go to the game and sit motionless. Like this couple that I accidentally spilled a drop of beer on. Get up and cheer.

People always look at me like I'm stupid when I stand up on 3rd downs and start yelling. Shouldn't I be looking at them like they're stupid? Normally the crowd is pretty good about stuff like that but there's usually one or two people who are perfectly able and just refuse to stand or make any noise whatsoever. Luckily the games i've been to have been early in the season and the crowd noise has been intense.


YES


I told a guy once that he might as well watch the game from his couch - he'd get a better view.
I probably wrecked his gameday experience (he was pretty miffed) but I didn't care.
;D



There's a difference between yelling loudly to support your team and being a dick - not to say that you were SKOL.
I'm loud, but I try very hard to direct it over the heads of the people in front of me.
I also try very hard not to scream obscenities.
Lastly, I don't stand up DURING THE PLAY unless the people in front of me are standing up.
I can enjoy my game-watching experience w/out screwing it up for the people sitting behind me.

=Z=

Suick
11-20-2007, 12:11 PM
"ConnecticutViking" wrote:



1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?


I couldn't agree more. If we had any kind of pass D, the season would be much different.
The question is whether to use FA/Draft for new DB's (or DE's if you believe the pass rush is to blame, which I don't) or a QB. I'm still against the cover 2 until we get the right personnel. 300 yds passing is 300 yds wether its 10 per pass or 40 per pass.

bleedpurple
11-20-2007, 02:23 PM
"Suick" wrote:


"ConnecticutViking" wrote:



1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?


I couldn't agree more. If we had any kind of pass D, the season would be much different.
The question is whether to use FA/Draft for new DB's (or DE's if you believe the pass rush is to blame, which I don't) or a QB. I'm still against the cover 2 until we get the right personnel. 300 yds passing is 300 yds wether its 10 per pass or 40 per pass.


I kinda think the DE's and the safties have more to do with the pass defense liabilities....
atleast TE's arent' killing us like they used to...
i say we blitz more and go with more man coverage or man under coverage...
no pass rush = piss poor cover-2 scheming and open wr's downfield
atleast wer're not giving up the big play...OH WAIT,... that happened atleast six times last week.. NEVERMIND!!!!

jmcdon00
11-20-2007, 02:34 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"SKOL" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:




Was anybody there besides Singer and Zeus?
I bet -Z- accounted for 50% of the noise.

If everyone was as loud as him we would have one hell of a crowd noise. It blows my mind when people go to the game and sit motionless. Like this couple that I accidentally spilled a drop of beer on. Get up and cheer.

People always look at me like I'm stupid when I stand up on 3rd downs and start yelling. Shouldn't I be looking at them like they're stupid? Normally the crowd is pretty good about stuff like that but there's usually one or two people who are perfectly able and just refuse to stand or make any noise whatsoever. Luckily the games i've been to have been early in the season and the crowd noise has been intense.


YES


I told a guy once that he might as well watch the game from his couch - he'd get a better view.
I probably wrecked his gameday experience (he was pretty miffed) but I didn't care.
;D



There's a difference between yelling loudly to support your team and being a dick - not to say that you were SKOL.
I'm loud, but I try very hard to direct it over the heads of the people in front of me.
I also try very hard not to scream obscenities.
Lastly, I don't stand up DURING THE PLAY unless the people in front of me are standing up.
I can enjoy my game-watching experience w/out screwing it up for the people sitting behind me.

=Z=

I thought the noise for the raiders game was very good. The two previous games against the chargers and eagles the crowd just wasn't that loud.
The crowd at the packers game was awesome, probably because you had to be louder than all the packers fans.
I think it is important for the fans to be quiet while the team is on offense and loud when the vikes are on defense, that gives them an advantage.
I like to get up and cheer during the games, especially when the team is on defense and when they make a big play but I also understand that others want to sit the entire time, I usually try to stay out of people's way but sometimes you have to stand. This week we got tickets for the last row of the lower level so we were able to stand the entire game! It was sweet.

Marrdro
11-20-2007, 02:37 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


"ConnecticutViking" wrote:



1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?


I couldn't agree more. If we had any kind of pass D, the season would be much different.
The question is whether to use FA/Draft for new DB's (or DE's if you believe the pass rush is to blame, which I don't) or a QB. I'm still against the cover 2 until we get the right personnel. 300 yds passing is 300 yds wether its 10 per pass or 40 per pass.


I kinda think the DE's and the safties have more to do with the pass defense liabilities....
atleast TE's arent' killing us like they used to...
i say we blitz more and go with more man coverage or man under coverage...
no pass rush = piss poor cover-2 scheming and open wr's downfield
atleast wer're not giving up the big play...OH WAIT,... that happened atleast six times last week.. NEVERMIND!!!!

No I do mind........

Quick question.
What constitutes a big play in your book?

To me it is 40 yards or greater as tracked by the league.

When you look at the league stats/standings we only have 3 of those (tied for 6th in the league defensively) this year.

Makes me wonder.
Maybe you call something else a big play that the NFL doesn't especially when we are talking about passing.

Please enlighten me on what I am misunderstanding.
::)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=FD46268AE041DD68801210FDAE93CA64?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_40PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1

NodakPaul
11-20-2007, 02:57 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


"ConnecticutViking" wrote:



1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?


I couldn't agree more. If we had any kind of pass D, the season would be much different.
The question is whether to use FA/Draft for new DB's (or DE's if you believe the pass rush is to blame, which I don't) or a QB. I'm still against the cover 2 until we get the right personnel. 300 yds passing is 300 yds wether its 10 per pass or 40 per pass.


I kinda think the DE's and the safties have more to do with the pass defense liabilities....
atleast TE's arent' killing us like they used to...
i say we blitz more and go with more man coverage or man under coverage...
no pass rush = piss poor cover-2 scheming and open wr's downfield
atleast wer're not giving up the big play...OH WAIT,... that happened atleast six times last week.. NEVERMIND!!!!

No I do mind........

Quick question.
What constitutes a big play in your book?

To me it is 40 yards or greater as tracked by the league.

When you look at the league stats/standings we only have 3 of those (tied for 6th in the league defensively) this year.

Makes me wonder.
Maybe you call something else a big play that the NFL doesn't especially when we are talking about passing.

Please enlighten me on what I am misunderstanding.
::)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=FD46268AE041DD68801210FDAE93CA64?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_40PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1


Apparently bleedpurple was watching a different game.
Here is the play by play (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29348&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG11) from the Raiders game.
I want you to show me those six big plays.

This is all I find:

2-9-OAK 48
(6:54) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep left to 89-R.Curry to MIN 6 for 46 yards (23-C.Griffin).
1-10-OAK 44
(14:24) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep right to 89-R.Curry to MIN 7 for 49 yards (42-D.Sharper).
1-10-MIN 45
(4:32) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep right to 84-J.Porter pushed ob at MIN 14 for 31 yards (24-D.Smith) [51-B.Leber].
1-10-OAK 19
(4:50) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep right to 84-J.Porter to OAK 47 for 28 yards (31-M.McCauley).


Arguable, those last two might not even be considered big plays, but I think this was where you were going with it.

However, I like to take note of these big plays as well.

3-7-OAK 6
(8:37) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper pass incomplete short right to 84-J.Porter. PENALTY on OAK-8-D.Culpepper, Intentional Grounding, 6 yards, enforced in End Zone, SAFETY.
2-6-MIN 6
(5:33) 8-D.Culpepper sacked at MIN 16 for -10 yards (56-E.Henderson).
3-16-MIN 16 (5:01) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper sacked at MIN 24 for -8 yards (91-R.Edwards). Penalty on OAK-74-C.Green, Offensive Holding, declined.
1-7-MIN 7
(13:39) 8-D.Culpepper FUMBLES (Aborted) at MIN 9, and recovers at MIN 10. 8-D.Culpepper to MIN 10 for no gain (95-K.Udeze).
1-10-OAK 26
(9:12) 8-D.Culpepper up the middle to OAK 22 for -4 yards (91-R.Edwards). (how is this not a sack BTW)
2-5-OAK 13
(14:22) 25-J.Fargas left guard to OAK 7 for -6 yards (93-K.Williams).
2-15-MIN 19
(2:55) 8-D.Culpepper sacked at MIN 22 for -3 yards (96-B.Robison). FUMBLES (96-B.Robison), RECOVERED by MIN-52-C.Greenway at MIN 26. 52-C.Greenway to MIN 26 for no gain (65-B.Sims).
2-10-OAK 42
(12:44) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper sacked at OAK 34 for -8 yards (99-E.James).
1-10-OAK 17
(1:55) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper pass intended for 25-J.Fargas INTERCEPTED by 52-C.Greenway at OAK 21. 52-C.Greenway to OAK 19 for 2 yards (65-B.Sims). FUMBLES (65-B.Sims), RECOVERED by OAK-79-P.McQuistan at OAK 18.
1-15-MIN 41
(:00) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper pass incomplete deep middle to 89-R.Curry (42-D.Sharper).

Marrdro
11-20-2007, 03:04 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


"ConnecticutViking" wrote:



1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?


I couldn't agree more. If we had any kind of pass D, the season would be much different.
The question is whether to use FA/Draft for new DB's (or DE's if you believe the pass rush is to blame, which I don't) or a QB. I'm still against the cover 2 until we get the right personnel. 300 yds passing is 300 yds wether its 10 per pass or 40 per pass.


I kinda think the DE's and the safties have more to do with the pass defense liabilities....
atleast TE's arent' killing us like they used to...
i say we blitz more and go with more man coverage or man under coverage...
no pass rush = piss poor cover-2 scheming and open wr's downfield
atleast wer're not giving up the big play...OH WAIT,... that happened atleast six times last week.. NEVERMIND!!!!

No I do mind........

Quick question.
What constitutes a big play in your book?

To me it is 40 yards or greater as tracked by the league.

When you look at the league stats/standings we only have 3 of those (tied for 6th in the league defensively) this year.

Makes me wonder.
Maybe you call something else a big play that the NFL doesn't especially when we are talking about passing.

Please enlighten me on what I am misunderstanding.
::)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=FD46268AE041DD68801210FDAE93CA64?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_40PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1


Apparently bleedpurple was watching a different game.
Here is the play by play (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29348&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG11) from the Raiders game.
I want you to show me those six big plays.

This is all I find:

2-9-OAK 48
(6:54) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep left to 89-R.Curry to MIN 6 for 46 yards (23-C.Griffin).
1-10-OAK 44
(14:24) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep right to 89-R.Curry to MIN 7 for 49 yards (42-D.Sharper).
1-10-MIN 45
(4:32) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep right to 84-J.Porter pushed ob at MIN 14 for 31 yards (24-D.Smith) [51-B.Leber].
1-10-OAK 19
(4:50) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep right to 84-J.Porter to OAK 47 for 28 yards (31-M.McCauley).


Arguable, those last two might not even be considered big plays, but I think this was where you were going with it.

However, I like to take note of these big plays as well.

3-7-OAK 6
(8:37) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper pass incomplete short right to 84-J.Porter. PENALTY on OAK-8-D.Culpepper, Intentional Grounding, 6 yards, enforced in End Zone, SAFETY.
2-6-MIN 6
(5:33) 8-D.Culpepper sacked at MIN 16 for -10 yards (56-E.Henderson).
3-16-MIN 16 (5:01) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper sacked at MIN 24 for -8 yards (91-R.Edwards). Penalty on OAK-74-C.Green, Offensive Holding, declined.
1-7-MIN 7
(13:39) 8-D.Culpepper FUMBLES (Aborted) at MIN 9, and recovers at MIN 10. 8-D.Culpepper to MIN 10 for no gain (95-K.Udeze).
1-10-OAK 26
(9:12) 8-D.Culpepper up the middle to OAK 22 for -4 yards (91-R.Edwards). (how is this not a sack BTW)
2-5-OAK 13
(14:22) 25-J.Fargas left guard to OAK 7 for -6 yards (93-K.Williams).
2-15-MIN 19
(2:55) 8-D.Culpepper sacked at MIN 22 for -3 yards (96-B.Robison). FUMBLES (96-B.Robison), RECOVERED by MIN-52-C.Greenway at MIN 26. 52-C.Greenway to MIN 26 for no gain (65-B.Sims).
2-10-OAK 42
(12:44) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper sacked at OAK 34 for -8 yards (99-E.James).
1-10-OAK 17
(1:55) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper pass intended for 25-J.Fargas INTERCEPTED by 52-C.Greenway at OAK 21. 52-C.Greenway to OAK 19 for 2 yards (65-B.Sims). FUMBLES (65-B.Sims), RECOVERED by OAK-79-P.McQuistan at OAK 18.
1-15-MIN 41
(:00) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper pass incomplete deep middle to 89-R.Curry (42-D.Sharper).

Thanks my friend.
I thought I was loosing it or something.

I'm wondering.
It appears that last weeks stats don't show yet.
Do you know when do they post the updates?

bleedpurple
11-20-2007, 03:47 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


"ConnecticutViking" wrote:



1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?


I couldn't agree more. If we had any kind of pass D, the season would be much different.
The question is whether to use FA/Draft for new DB's (or DE's if you believe the pass rush is to blame, which I don't) or a QB. I'm still against the cover 2 until we get the right personnel. 300 yds passing is 300 yds wether its 10 per pass or 40 per pass.


I kinda think the DE's and the safties have more to do with the pass defense liabilities....
atleast TE's arent' killing us like they used to...
i say we blitz more and go with more man coverage or man under coverage...
no pass rush = piss poor cover-2 scheming and open wr's downfield
atleast wer're not giving up the big play...OH WAIT,... that happened atleast six times last week.. NEVERMIND!!!!

No I do mind........

Quick question.
What constitutes a big play in your book?

To me it is 40 yards or greater as tracked by the league.

When you look at the league stats/standings we only have 3 of those (tied for 6th in the league defensively) this year.

Makes me wonder.
Maybe you call something else a big play that the NFL doesn't especially when we are talking about passing.

Please enlighten me on what I am misunderstanding.
::)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=FD46268AE041DD68801210FDAE93CA64?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_40PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1


I was referring to what Brad Childress termed "explosive plays" which i believe are plays over 15 or 20 yards.. not necessarily bombs...

Marrdro
11-20-2007, 03:49 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


"ConnecticutViking" wrote:



1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?


I couldn't agree more. If we had any kind of pass D, the season would be much different.
The question is whether to use FA/Draft for new DB's (or DE's if you believe the pass rush is to blame, which I don't) or a QB. I'm still against the cover 2 until we get the right personnel. 300 yds passing is 300 yds wether its 10 per pass or 40 per pass.


I kinda think the DE's and the safties have more to do with the pass defense liabilities....
atleast TE's arent' killing us like they used to...
i say we blitz more and go with more man coverage or man under coverage...
no pass rush = piss poor cover-2 scheming and open wr's downfield
atleast wer're not giving up the big play...OH WAIT,... that happened atleast six times last week.. NEVERMIND!!!!

No I do mind........

Quick question.
What constitutes a big play in your book?

To me it is 40 yards or greater as tracked by the league.

When you look at the league stats/standings we only have 3 of those (tied for 6th in the league defensively) this year.

Makes me wonder.
Maybe you call something else a big play that the NFL doesn't especially when we are talking about passing.

Please enlighten me on what I am misunderstanding.
::)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=FD46268AE041DD68801210FDAE93CA64?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_40PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1


I was referring to what Brad Childress termed "explosive plays" which i believe are plays over 15 or 20 yards.. not necessarily bombs...



OK.
I will let you have that one.
;D

bleedpurple
11-20-2007, 03:49 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:





1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?


I couldn't agree more. If we had any kind of pass D, the season would be much different.
The question is whether to use FA/Draft for new DB's (or DE's if you believe the pass rush is to blame, which I don't) or a QB. I'm still against the cover 2 until we get the right personnel. 300 yds passing is 300 yds wether its 10 per pass or 40 per pass.


I kinda think the DE's and the safties have more to do with the pass defense liabilities....
atleast TE's arent' killing us like they used to...
i say we blitz more and go with more man coverage or man under coverage...
no pass rush = piss poor cover-2 scheming and open wr's downfield
atleast wer're not giving up the big play...OH WAIT,... that happened atleast six times last week.. NEVERMIND!!!!

No I do mind........

Quick question.
What constitutes a big play in your book?

To me it is 40 yards or greater as tracked by the league.

When you look at the league stats/standings we only have 3 of those (tied for 6th in the league defensively) this year.

Makes me wonder.
Maybe you call something else a big play that the NFL doesn't especially when we are talking about passing.

Please enlighten me on what I am misunderstanding.
::)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=FD46268AE041DD68801210FDAE93CA64?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_40PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1


I was referring to what Brad Childress termed "explosive plays" which i believe are plays over 15 or 20 yards.. not necessarily bombs...



OK.
I will let you have that one.

;D


Preciate it!!!!

Frostbite
11-20-2007, 04:45 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:







1. I'm tired of seeing our pass defense make the other team QB's look like gods!
I mean... When was the last time Pepper threw for 300 + Yards?

I couldn't agree more. If we had any kind of pass D, the season would be much different.
The question is whether to use FA/Draft for new DB's (or DE's if you believe the pass rush is to blame, which I don't) or a QB. I'm still against the cover 2 until we get the right personnel. 300 yds passing is 300 yds wether its 10 per pass or 40 per pass.


I kinda think the DE's and the safties have more to do with the pass defense liabilities....
atleast TE's arent' killing us like they used to...
i say we blitz more and go with more man coverage or man under coverage...
no pass rush = piss poor cover-2 scheming and open wr's downfield
atleast wer're not giving up the big play...OH WAIT,... that happened atleast six times last week.. NEVERMIND!!!!

No I do mind........

Quick question.
What constitutes a big play in your book?

To me it is 40 yards or greater as tracked by the league.

When you look at the league stats/standings we only have 3 of those (tied for 6th in the league defensively) this year.

Makes me wonder.
Maybe you call something else a big play that the NFL doesn't especially when we are talking about passing.

Please enlighten me on what I am misunderstanding.
::)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=FD46268AE041DD68801210FDAE93CA64?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_40PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1


I was referring to what Brad Childress termed "explosive plays" which i believe are plays over 15 or 20 yards.. not necessarily bombs...



OK.
I will let you have that one.

;D


Preciate it!!!!






2005 Against the Saints he had a 300 yard passing game. I think that was the most recent 300 yard D.C. passing game??



Cheers!

Suick
11-21-2007, 11:56 AM
We are 1st in running D

29th in overall D

Where do you think that puts the pass D?

I don't buy the "were so bad at pass D because teams won't run on us". Its more like the other way around.

C Mac D
11-21-2007, 01:18 PM
"Suick" wrote:


We are 1st in running D

29th in overall D

Where do you think that puts the pass D?

I don't buy the "were so bad at pass D because teams won't run on us". Its more like the other way around.


By the way, we're not 1st in overall run D, and we're dead last in pass D... hate to burst your bubble:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

C Mac D
11-21-2007, 01:28 PM
On a sidenote... T-Jack had more passing yards than Peyton Manning last week. Not often you can say that.

Frostbite
11-21-2007, 01:37 PM
[quote author=C Mac D link=topic=39817.msg677532#msg677532 date=1195669730]
On a sidenote...


[/quote}





Yea.....but the Giants are not the Raiders in Pass Rush or the Secondary. I hope T.Jack is ready to move/run/escape/ and can have a productive throwing day.


Cheers!

NodakPaul
11-21-2007, 01:42 PM
"C" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


We are 1st in running D

29th in overall D

Where do you think that puts the pass D?

I don't buy the "were so bad at pass D because teams won't run on us". Its more like the other way around.


By the way, we're not 1st in overall run D, and we're dead last in pass D... hate to burst your bubble:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team


Correct.
We have now dropped to third.


And Suick, I may be misunderstanding, but are you trying to imply that our run D is good because people don't have to run against us?
That same argument was made and debunked several times last year too.

Teams run against Minnesota an average of 25.7 times per game (about middle of the pack).
Yet we still keep them to an average of 75.9 yards per game (third best).
That is an average of 3.0 yards per carry.
If that argument was correct, then the ypc would be much higher.

C Mac D
11-21-2007, 01:44 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


Yea.....but the Giants are not the Raiders in Pass Rush or the Secondary. I hope T.Jack is ready to move/run/escape/ and can have a productive throwing day.


Cheers!


Actually... the Raiders are better in Pass D (4th) than the Giants (9th).

NodakPaul
11-21-2007, 01:44 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


"C" wrote:


On a sidenote...








Yea.....but the Giants are not the Raiders in Pass Rush or the Secondary. I hope T.Jack is ready to move/run/escape/ and can have a productive throwing day.


Cheers!


The fact that the Giants have a league leading 31 sacks this year does scare me a bit...

Frostbite
11-21-2007, 01:52 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


"C" wrote:


On a sidenote...








Yea.....but the Giants are not the Raiders in Pass Rush or the Secondary. I hope T.Jack is ready to move/run/escape/ and can have a productive throwing day.


Cheers!


The fact that the Giants have a league leading 31 sacks this year does scare me a bit...



Me to Nodakpaul....I just hope the Coaches have some roll outs called away from Strahands side for T.Jack. I don't see him being able to stay in the pocket for more than 4 seconds against these guys. Also....he's going to have tom have some help and protect the ball better when he's standing back there....even take the sack if necessary to avoid the fumbles or INTs...

Cheers!

Suick
11-21-2007, 03:15 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


We are 1st in running D

29th in overall D

Where do you think that puts the pass D?

I don't buy the "were so bad at pass D because teams won't run on us". Its more like the other way around.


By the way, we're not 1st in overall run D, and we're dead last in pass D... hate to burst your bubble:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team


Teams run against Minnesota an average of 25.7 times per game (about middle of the pack).
Yet we still keep them to an average of 75.9 yards per game (third best).
That is an average of 3.0 yards per carry.
If that argument was correct, then the ypc would be much higher.


This only furthers the original point. Pass D = ungood

jmcdon00
11-21-2007, 03:42 PM
"Suick" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Suick" wrote:


We are 1st in running D

29th in overall D

Where do you think that puts the pass D?

I don't buy the "were so bad at pass D because teams won't run on us". Its more like the other way around.


By the way, we're not 1st in overall run D, and we're dead last in pass D... hate to burst your bubble:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team


Teams run against Minnesota an average of 25.7 times per game (about middle of the pack).
Yet we still keep them to an average of 75.9 yards per game (third best).
That is an average of 3.0 yards per carry.
If that argument was correct, then the ypc would be much higher.


The vikings opponents have thrown more passes than any other team(411). They've complete 65%(6th worse), averaging 7.4ypa(tied for 9th worst). They've given up 14 pass tds(tied for 12 worse in nfl). They have gotten 9 picks(tied for 9th worst). They have given up the most passing yards in the nfl. Apponents QB rating was 89.3(tied for 9th).

It depends on what statistic you are looking at but I would say tds allowed and apponents qb rating are the most important indicators. I don't think total yards is the most important stat.

There rush defense is giving up 2.9ypc(2nd best). Opponents rushed 211 times(11th fewest). And allowed 4 rushing tds(3rd best).
I would rank them in the top 3 in rush defense.


Rushing offense the vikings are 1st in ypc and total yards. 2nd in rushing tds to the colts.
Best rushing team in football, no doubt.

Passing offense are 31 in yards per game. They are 28th in td passes(5). They are tied for 5th best in interceptions(8-suprised me too). They are 29th in qb rating(68.5).
They are very bad at passing.

BleedinPandG
11-21-2007, 11:22 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


"C" wrote:


On a sidenote...








Yea.....but the Giants are not the Raiders in Pass Rush or the Secondary. I hope T.Jack is ready to move/run/escape/ and can have a productive throwing day.


Cheers!


The fact that the Giants have a league leading 31 sacks this year does scare me a bit...


They had 12 sacks in one game against the Eagles.
The other 9 games they are average 2 sacks a game, not quite as terrifying as the stats indicate.

NDVikingFan66
11-22-2007, 01:45 AM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


"C" wrote:


On a sidenote...








Yea.....but the Giants are not the Raiders in Pass Rush or the Secondary. I hope T.Jack is ready to move/run/escape/ and can have a productive throwing day.


Cheers!


The fact that the Giants have a league leading 31 sacks this year does scare me a bit...


They had 12 sacks in one game against the Eagles.
The other 9 games they are average 2 sacks a game, not quite as terrifying as the stats indicate.


I watched that game...I dont think the Giants had 12 sacks....more like for 12 plays the entire offensive line did absolutely nothing.
The one lineman was just getting abused.
I think my 14 year old daughter could beat him off the line or toss him aside......

Zeus
11-22-2007, 08:18 AM
"Frostbite" wrote:


Me to Nodakpaul....I just hope the Coaches have some roll outs called away from Strahands side for T.Jack.

Dear God, no!
Roll Tarvaris right into Umenyiora who will be blowing past lead-feet McKinnie on the left?
Yikes.

=Z=

singersp
11-22-2007, 08:32 AM
"NDVikingFan66" wrote:


"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


"C" wrote:


On a sidenote...








Yea.....but the Giants are not the Raiders in Pass Rush or the Secondary. I hope T.Jack is ready to move/run/escape/ and can have a productive throwing day.


Cheers!


The fact that the Giants have a league leading 31 sacks this year does scare me a bit...


They had 12 sacks in one game against the Eagles.
The other 9 games they are average 2 sacks a game, not quite as terrifying as the stats indicate.


I watched that game...I dont think the Giants had 12 sacks....more like for 12 plays the entire offensive line did absolutely nothing.
The one lineman was just getting abused.
I think my 14 year old daughter could beat him off the line or toss him aside......


They had 11.

Umenyiora had 6

Kiwanuka had 3

Tuck had 2

marstc09
11-22-2007, 12:35 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


"C" wrote:


On a sidenote...








Yea.....but the Giants are not the Raiders in Pass Rush or the Secondary. I hope T.Jack is ready to move/run/escape/ and can have a productive throwing day.


Cheers!


The fact that the Giants have a league leading 31 sacks this year does scare me a bit...


The line just needs to step up in protecting on passing downs. I hope they can do it.

digital420
11-23-2007, 05:06 AM
As long as the Oline keeps making holes.. imposing their will, and basicly shoving D lines backward.

Then we'll have our rush game going strong.
Now if the Giants can keep rpeasure up.. even while we run by them.. it's gonna make them hesitate that extra second when we do the play action.

This will be our key to a W.. executing Play actions!! Tjack + WR's getting enouf sync.. and Shianco getting his catches!

DiGiTaL

El Vikingo
11-23-2007, 05:20 AM
Any our corners/safetys being closer than 5 yards from the Receiver
anytime during the game would help too...
Where are all those fumbles and picks by our scoring D of the preseason?
We need it badly...