PDA

View Full Version : Will Tjack ever improve



Pages : [1] 2 3

purplepride_1961
11-14-2007, 08:57 PM
Do you guys think that tjack will ever live up to chilly expectations, or just a waste at a 2nd round pick?

Purple Floyd
11-14-2007, 09:07 PM
It's hard to know just what Chilly's expectations are at this point. He has brought in O'Sullivan, McMahon, Detmer, Jackson, Bollinger, Holcolm, Henson etc in the last year along with sending Brad Johnson packing. So far with the exception of Johnson, he has liked all of them for one reason or another and none of them has amounted to anything yet. I am not sure what his expectations were for any of them but my guess is that none of the players above ever met them.

I do feel that Jackson will improve. What I don't know is whether that improvement will ever be enough to be a star in the NFL. Right now it is a long row to hoe.

x-ray jeff
11-14-2007, 09:47 PM
I'm afraid that after he got KTFO in the Chargers game, he will never take off for a first down again. I hope I'm wrong, the kid looked like he had the athletic ability to be a threat to run in the beginning. That threat might have forced the defense to put a "spy" on him, thus opening up a few more receivers to him. It just hasn't happened. Hopefully he will bounce back and things will start to click for him and the entire offense.

ultravikingfan
11-14-2007, 10:02 PM
Just look through the dozens of threads and you will find out way more than you need to know about the opinions of members here ragarding TJ.

As for me, no.

DustinDupont
11-14-2007, 10:29 PM
i still have faith in him, if we get a wide out that he can count on to get open he will be better, hopefully sidney rice can be that guy or we trade for either Fitz or Chad Johnson... look at what payton manning did when he didnt have harrison or clark or gonzo... he sucked and he still had a stud wide out to throw to... wayne...

that is y no qb in are system is going to be any good until we get some wide outs that can make some plays...

mblack76
11-14-2007, 10:37 PM
What we need is a veteran so he can learn without pressure (if his confidence is not very good) or we just keep getting him the weapons he needs to be successful. And yes he can get better. He has the attributes. He is just being rushed and missing many key pieces.

Vikes_King
11-14-2007, 10:41 PM
i say they need a proven veteran QB to come in.. and compete for the job during the offseason, if TJack isn't the best option next year, sit him and have him learn behind the vet.. if the earns it great.
Don't make the "rebuilding process" longer than it has to be

Caine
11-14-2007, 10:49 PM
Will he "improve"?
Sure.
He can't be any worse than he has been.
Will it be enough to justify the confidence Chiller had in him?
I seriously doubt it.

Caine

kramer9guy
11-14-2007, 10:49 PM
Will Tjack ever improve?

Not to the level that he needs to be at to lead this team to a championship.

We need to go in another direction.

StillPurple
11-15-2007, 12:12 AM
Put it this way, a QB in a short-pass oriented offense like the west coast offense who has a 45 % completion rate, is not cutting it at the NFL level. I said it at the beginning of the season, and I will say it again: if we keep starting T-Jack, we go like 5-11. Tarvaris has shown me nothing that makes me think he can make it. He is not accurate. He panics and runs at the first sign that the pocket is collapsing. I don't like his mechanics. The only thing I like is the arm strength, but that is not enough (if it were, Ryan Leaf would still be playing).

Let's just review for a moment what a good starting QB in the NFL needs:

- Leadership
- Accuracy
- Ability to read a defense
- Ability to audible and improvise
- Pocket mobility
- Courage and ability to stand in the pocket
- Arm strength
- Intelligence
- Stoicism

I only see arm strength there for T-Jacks so far.

I keep wishing I could chill Tarvaris out, because he panics way too fast.

Garland Greene
11-15-2007, 12:23 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Put it this way, a QB in a short-pass oriented offense like the west coast offense who has a 45 % completion rate, is not cutting it at the NFL level. I said it at the beginning of the season, and I will say it again: if we keep starting T-Jack, we go like 5-11. Tarvaris has shown me nothing that makes me think he can make it. He is not accurate. He panics and runs at the first sign that the pocket is collapsing. I don't like his mechanics. The only thing I like is the arm strength, but that is not enough (if it were, Ryan Leaf would still be playing).

Let's just review for a moment what a good starting QB in the NFL needs:

- Leadership
- Accuracy
- Ability to read a defense
- Ability to audible and improvise
- Pocket mobility
- Courage and ability to stand in the pocket
- Arm strength
- Intelligence
- Stoicism

I only see arm strength there for T-Jacks so far.

I keep wishing I could chill Tarvaris out, because he panics way too fast.


So basically it everything T-Joke is not.
He may have a great arm but I don't think he could throw a ball and hit water of he was standing in the middle of a lake.

tb04512
11-15-2007, 12:37 AM
i think he will improve!

DustinDupont
11-15-2007, 01:08 AM
"Garland" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Put it this way, a QB in a short-pass oriented offense like the west coast offense who has a 45 % completion rate, is not cutting it at the NFL level. I said it at the beginning of the season, and I will say it again: if we keep starting T-Jack, we go like 5-11. Tarvaris has shown me nothing that makes me think he can make it. He is not accurate. He panics and runs at the first sign that the pocket is collapsing. I don't like his mechanics. The only thing I like is the arm strength, but that is not enough (if it were, Ryan Leaf would still be playing).

Let's just review for a moment what a good starting QB in the NFL needs:

- Leadership
- Accuracy
- Ability to read a defense
- Ability to audible and improvise
- Pocket mobility
- Courage and ability to stand in the pocket
- Arm strength
- Intelligence
- Stoicism

I only see arm strength there for T-Jacks so far.

I keep wishing I could chill Tarvaris out, because he panics way too fast.


So basically it everything T-Joke is not.
He may have a great arm but I don't think he could throw a ball and hit water of he was standing in the middle of a lake.


cuz he would throw it across the lake onto land!! ;)

singersp
11-15-2007, 07:56 AM
I can't tell for sure yet. It's still to early to tell after a handful of games. Until the O-line improves & offers up some pass blocking & T-Jack is confident that McKinnie has his back, I don't know if he can be fairly evaluated.

He has been throwing some incomplete passes, many of which are damn close, in which IMO, he just lacks touch & that can be inproved with time.

Others he has sailed. Is that because he is inaccurate or is it because he is under pressure or feels he is under pressure & hurries his throws without planting his foot. None of us can say for sure what is going on inside his head. It is all just speculation by fans.

Even Favre tends to crumble once you get pressure on him & rattle his cage a bit. We have all seen him be off target & throw picks once that happens.

Are the recievers getting open? Not as much as they should be, again IMO.

Personally, with the line we have & the receiver corps being as young as they are, I'm not even sure if a seasoned vet would have a lot of success with this offense.

One thing I'd like to see is a FB on the QB's left side to puck up any pass rusher that McKinnie lets get around him. Typically, from what I've seen is that the FB is protecting on the right side.

IMO, that's bassakwards. The QB can see the pressure coming from that side & can react accordingly. From the blind side he cannot.

T-Jack may have been brought in too early. Not because he wasn't ready, but because the O-line & the receiving corp aren't performing well enough & aren't ready enough to bring in a new QB.

It's one thing to rebuild a team one piece at a time fixing one problem before addressing another, but Childress is trying to do it all at once on offence & that spells disaster to me.

New schemes, new system, new receivers, new RB's, new QB's, etc...........

Marrdro
11-15-2007, 07:58 AM
"singersp" wrote:


I can't tell for sure yet. It's still to early to tell after a handful of games. Until the O-line improves & offers up some pass blocking & T-Jack is confident that McKinnie has his back, I don't know if he can be fairly evaluated.

He has been throwing some incomplete passes, many of which are gol 'darnit close, in which IMO, he just lacks touch & that can be inproved with time.

Others he has sailed. Is that because he is inaccurate or is it because he is under pressure or feels he is under pressure & hurries his throws without planting his foot. None of us can say for sure what is going on inside his head. It is all just speculation by fans.

Even Favre tends to crumble once you get pressure on him & rattle his cage a bit. We have all seen him be off target & throw picks once that happens.

Are the recievers getting open? Not as much as they should be, again IMO.

Personally, with the line we have & the receiver corps being as young as they are, I'm not even sure if a seasoned vet would have a lot of success with this offense.

One thing I'd like to see is a FB on the QB's left side to puck up any pass rusher that McKinnie lets get around him. Typically, from what I've seen is that the FB is protecting on the right side.

IMO, that's bassakwards. The QB can see the pressure coming from that side & can react accordingly. From the blind side he cannot.

T-Jack may have been brought in too early. Not because he wasn't ready, but because the O-line & the receiving corp aren't performing well enough & aren't ready enough to bring in a new QB.

It's one thing to rebuild a team one piece at a time fixing one problem before addressing another, but Childress is trying to do it all at once on offence & that spells disaster to me.

New schemes, new system, new receivers, new RB's, new QB's, etc...........

Very good post my friend.
;D

Marrdro
11-15-2007, 08:02 AM
I think he will improve, but not at the rate we need him to.

Then, throw in the fact that I have deep concerns over his ability to stay and healthy.........
Even if he does improve ahead of schedule, how much confidence can you put in him.

My bet, based on what I've seen of him so far.....
He will be a very good backup who will be able to come in and win a couple of games for us if the OL has improved and the WR's can get open and hang onto the ball.

Take any one of those wildcards out and he might have problems for a few years.

vikesfargo
11-25-2007, 04:41 PM
With the win today over the Giants, Tarvaris Jackson's record as a starter this year has improved to 5-2.

BTW, he had no turnovers today and was efficient. The Vikings even converted on several third downs today with passing plays.

COJOMAY
11-25-2007, 04:47 PM
"vikesfargo" wrote:


With the win today over the Giants, Tarvaris Jackson's record as a starter this year has improved to 5-2.

BTW, he had no turnovers today and was efficient. The Vikings even converted on several third downs today with passing plays.

And with a couple of runs by Jackson. But what was that "slide" three yards short of the first down marker when he could have easily made it?

Braddock
11-25-2007, 04:56 PM
Yes he will. Yes he has.

NeoVikesTX
11-25-2007, 05:00 PM
Best game of TJack's career thus far for sure.
He made some plays and good decisions against a good Giants team on the road.

Now let's see if he can do it consistently.

Braddock
11-25-2007, 05:03 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


"vikesfargo" wrote:


With the win today over the Giants, Tarvaris Jackson's record as a starter this year has improved to 5-2.

BTW, he had no turnovers today and was efficient. The Vikings even converted on several third downs today with passing plays.

And with a couple of runs by Jackson. But what was that "slide" three yards short of the first down marker when he could have easily made it?


I LOL'd at that. You could tell Chiller wasn't pleased. oh well, if that's his biggest mistake, I'll take it.

huxx
11-25-2007, 05:06 PM
Yes.
Yes he will.
Unfortunately for us, we need to see him take the time to develop.

jkjuggalo
11-25-2007, 05:12 PM
We are seeing improvement now.
I was hoping to see him throw some more in the fourth quarter when we were up by 31, but oh well.

C Mac D
11-25-2007, 05:13 PM
"jkjuggalo" wrote:


We are seeing improvement now.
I was hoping to see him throw some more in the fourth quarter when we were up by 31, but oh well.


That's exactly when he shouldn't be throwing...

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
11-25-2007, 05:13 PM
With the win today over the Giants, Tarvaris Jackson's record as a starter this year has improved to 5-2.

BTW, he had no turnovers today and was efficient. The Vikings even converted on several third downs today with passing plays.


Yeah he was amazing when he fumbled it forward for a first. Hes so amazing I think he did it on purpose ;)


Pros-
1. He finally hit somebody on the deep pass with Rice on the second play of the game.
2. He ran 5 times for 38 yards.
3. Converted on 3rd down I believe 3 times passing.
4. He looked more accurate on those timing routes.
5. No turnovers (got kind of lucky with that fumble recovered for a first but still no Fumble lost or interceptions)

Cons-
1. He fumbled forward luckily for a first down.
2. Many times he just gave up on the pass and attempted to run forward and got sacked.
3. Not great pocket presence.
4. He doesn't look down field to make a play when begins to run.
5. The slide three yards short of the first down when he could have easily made it and more with that blocker and no one else on the outside. And then we dont convert on that 3rd down because of him making a moronic move on second.
6. He can't make decisions or be decisive in the pocket. Besides that second play of the game all his completions were timing routes, screens
and easy passes.
7. Some completions just individual effort by the receiver/ The one where he was being sacked and just threw it up for Chester who luckily caught it. Thats just a terrible decision.
8. If 129 yards is improvement how bad must he really be if that is improvement.

SIUviking
11-25-2007, 05:24 PM
How can you dog him on 129 yards when the Vikings are a running team and he threw the ball 12 times. The Giants have a great D-line and got some real pressure on T-jack and the running games never really got going.

vikesfargo
11-25-2007, 05:29 PM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:



1. He finally hit somebody on the deep pass with Rice on the second play of the game.



TJack has hit the deep man more than a couple of times this year, including a 60-yard strike to TWill for a TD. The kid from Alabama State can zip the ball, and his accuracy is making progress, too.

BTW, good points, PurpleHorns and everybody else.

Mr-holland
11-25-2007, 05:29 PM
What i didn't like was the pass to CT when he almost got sacked, could've turned into an INT

V4L
11-25-2007, 05:32 PM
T-Jack played a very efficient game and that's all we need right now

No turnovers.. Just a game manager and someone who can move the chains sometimes

10/12 is an improvment over his last game.. Which was also pretty good

Everyone is saying 124 yards who cares? Look at the attempts..

And he has started to show better awarness.. Getting rid of the ball and running if it breaks down

He is definitley starting to improve.. I give him about a year and a half to really show people what he can do though.. He will get us some wins tho

5-2 under him is very good

Purple Floyd
11-25-2007, 05:44 PM
Every solid game he has makes it less likely that we will go after McNabb in the offseason.

Gooooooo
TJ!!!!!!

jkjuggalo
11-25-2007, 05:50 PM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:




With the win today over the Giants, Tarvaris Jackson's record as a starter this year has improved to 5-2.

BTW, he had no turnovers today and was efficient. The Vikings even converted on several third downs today with passing plays.


Yeah he was amazing when he fumbled it forward for a first. Hes so amazing I think he did it on purpose ;)


Pros-
1. He finally hit somebody on the deep pass with Rice on the second play of the game.
2. He ran 5 times for 38 yards.
3. Converted on 3rd down I believe 3 times passing.
4. He looked more accurate on those timing routes.
5. No turnovers (got kind of lucky with that fumble recovered for a first but still no Fumble lost or interceptions)

Cons-
1. He fumbled forward luckily for a first down.
2. Many times he just gave up on the pass and attempted to run forward and got sacked.
3. Not great pocket presence.
4. He doesn't look down field to make a play when begins to run.
5. The slide three yards short of the first down when he could have easily made it and more with that blocker and no one else on the outside. And then we dont convert on that 3rd down because of him making a moronic move on second.
6. He can't make decisions or be decisive in the pocket. Besides that second play of the game all his completions were timing routes, screens
and easy passes.
7. Some completions just individual effort by the receiver/ The one where he was being sacked and just threw it up for Chester who luckily caught it. Thats just a terrible decision.
8. If 129 yards is improvement how bad must he really be if that is improvement.


I dsagree with that statement.
He tends to have his eyes up and down the field when he is running unless he is under overwhelming pressure.
The fumble forward happened because he did not have both hands on the ball due to the fact he was looking downfield and about to pass it.
Personally I wish that he would tuck it and run rather than hold onto the ball too long trying to make a play downfield...because that is how fumble do happen, as we have seen.

ultravikingfan
11-25-2007, 05:54 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Every solid game he has makes it less likely that we will go after McNabb in the offseason.

Gooooooo
TJ!!!!!!


Goo TJ?
Ew!

http://www.fogelholm.com/blog/media/1/20050928-g-goo.jpg

Purple Floyd
11-25-2007, 05:57 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Every solid game he has makes it less likely that we will go after McNabb in the offseason.

Gooooooo
TJ!!!!!!


Goo TJ?
Ew!

http://www.fogelholm.com/blog/media/1/20050928-g-goo.jpg


You missed a few vowels there sir ;D
Bring you mind back to football please.

Braddock
11-25-2007, 06:04 PM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:




With the win today over the Giants, Tarvaris Jackson's record as a starter this year has improved to 5-2.

BTW, he had no turnovers today and was efficient. The Vikings even converted on several third downs today with passing plays.


Yeah he was amazing when he fumbled it forward for a first. Hes so amazing I think he did it on purpose ;)


Pros-
1. He finally hit somebody on the deep pass with Rice on the second play of the game.
2. He ran 5 times for 38 yards.
3. Converted on 3rd down I believe 3 times passing.
4. He looked more accurate on those timing routes.
5. No turnovers (got kind of lucky with that fumble recovered for a first but still no Fumble lost or interceptions)

Cons-
1. He fumbled forward luckily for a first down.
When was trying to throw, like you blast him for NOT doing further down, and it gets hit out of his hand from behind/blind side. What do you expect?
2. Many times he just gave up on the pass and attempted to run forward and got sacked.
When there's nothing to throw to, why stay in place? That's a dumb assessment, no offense. If he didn't do that, then you'd blast him for not making decisions fast enough. He needs WR open to throw to.
3. Not great pocket presence.
I think he has great pressence. Timing and feel he needs improvement, but he stands in there until it completely collapses. I have no qualms with pressence.
4. He doesn't look down field to make a play when begins to run.
DISAGREE. are you kidding? If anything he looks to pass too much, thus producing jump passes and the pumps that get hit and knock the ball out. That is a wrong assessment right there. I don't see where you get that AT ALL
5. The slide three yards short of the first down when he could have easily made it and more with that blocker and no one else on the outside. And then we dont convert on that 3rd down because of him making a moronic move on second.
Yeah that was dumb, but the game was in hand, he didn't want to take the chance of injury or turnover. It's a dumb mistake, but one to be taken lightly. Never mind those other big runs for 1st he had when the game was closer...... ???
6. He can't make decisions or be decisive in the pocket. Besides that second play of the game all his completions were timing routes, screens
and easy passes.
You say he runs too fast then he's too indecisive? Contradiction right there. He may make wrong decisions, but he's making them quicker. How about when Rice came back so TJ could pass for the first??? Plus most of those timing routes and swings were with Giants nipping on his heels. Well composed.
7. Some completions just individual effort by the receiver/ The one where he was being sacked and just threw it up for Chester who luckily caught it. Thats just a terrible decision.
8. If 129 yards is improvement how bad must he really be if that is improvement.
He had 0 ints, that is much more important


I'm not trying to be derogatory but that was an awful assessment of TJ. Sounds like you're going with stuff he did weeks ago and not looking at his recent performances. Sounds like a negative nancy to me.











Look into the quote for my reply. I'm the bolded

NodakPaul
11-25-2007, 06:06 PM
I actually think TJ played a very solid game today.
He didn't panic under pressure, and over all made good decisions.
A couple I disagreed with, but for the most part, I was happy with his performance.

At one point in the game, the commentators said something about Childress believing that much of the QB position was making good decisions.
This was demonstrated today with TJ.

V4L
11-25-2007, 06:08 PM
I think its gonna be funny when T-jack improves even more and people will start riding his jock again

NodakPaul
11-25-2007, 06:11 PM
"V4L" wrote:


I think its gonna be funny when T-jack improves even more and people will start riding his jock again


I would love that... I was one of the many people who was/still am questioning Childress's decision to stick with TJ this year.
I felt he was too raw still.
But I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong all the way to the playoffs... :D

VikesFanInNC
11-25-2007, 06:12 PM
Played a very solid game today. You have to remember that when you only throw 12 passes, 129 yards ain't bad. Especially 10/12, 129 yds, 1 TD.

V4L
11-25-2007, 06:13 PM
I hear ya Nodak

I still know he is raw, but I personally think he gives us the best chance the win and is getting valuable experience

He has a hell of an arm and his accuracy will come around

And he has the legs

He just needs time and more experience and I KNOW he will be our franchise QB

With that said I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Anderson or McNabb but im cool with T-Jack

Mikecarter81
11-25-2007, 06:14 PM
Guy played real well today.
The biggest thing is great percentage no turnovers.
The yards no big deal, we don't need to air it out like before.
I've always felt that if our QB could get 150 yards with no turnovers, and hig percentage we would be fine.

Mike

NodakPaul
11-25-2007, 06:24 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Guy played real well today.
The biggest thing is great percentage no turnovers.
The yards no big deal, we don't need to air it out like before.
I've always felt that if our QB could get 150 yards with no turnovers, and hig percentage we would be fine.

Mike


Yup.

TJ's QB rating was 139.24 and he had an 83% completion rate.
I am pleased.

BTW, I didn't realize until they said it on TV, but TJ is 5-2 this year as a starter.
In the end, that is the most important stat...

Purple Floyd
11-25-2007, 06:29 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I think its gonna be funny when T-jack improves even more and people will start riding his jock again


I would love that... I was one of the many people who was/still am questioning Childress's decision to stick with TJ this year.
I felt he was too raw still.
But I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong all the way to the playoffs... :D


I don't think this really changes what many were thinking, which was that the team has the talent to win this year but the QB position was holding the team back. By starting the year with a better QB, we could be looking at a better record and a good shot in the playoffs. By bringing TJ along as the primary guy and Holcolm and Bolinger not doing all that well we just may have conceded a year that didn't have to be.

Maybe he can do enough to get us into the playoffs yet and see what happens but with F.A the way it is, things can really change on a team in a year.

Vikes_King
11-25-2007, 06:37 PM
Will Tjack ever improve

Yes. :)

tgorsegner
11-25-2007, 06:53 PM
yeah.... today was better. and he will keep getting better.

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
11-25-2007, 06:56 PM
"Braddock" wrote:


"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:




With the win today over the Giants, Tarvaris Jackson's record as a starter this year has improved to 5-2.

BTW, he had no turnovers today and was efficient. The Vikings even converted on several third downs today with passing plays.


Yeah he was amazing when he fumbled it forward for a first. Hes so amazing I think he did it on purpose ;)


Pros-
1. He finally hit somebody on the deep pass with Rice on the second play of the game.
2. He ran 5 times for 38 yards.
3. Converted on 3rd down I believe 3 times passing.
4. He looked more accurate on those timing routes.
5. No turnovers (got kind of lucky with that fumble recovered for a first but still no Fumble lost or interceptions)

Cons-
1. He fumbled forward luckily for a first down.
When was trying to throw, like you blast him for NOT doing further down, and it gets hit out of his hand from behind/blind side. What do you expect?
2. Many times he just gave up on the pass and attempted to run forward and got sacked.
When there's nothing to throw to, why stay in place? That's a dumb assessment, no offense. If he didn't do that, then you'd blast him for not making decisions fast enough. He needs WR open to throw to.
3. Not great pocket presence.
I think he has great pressence. Timing and feel he needs improvement, but he stands in there until it completely collapses. I have no qualms with pressence.
4. He doesn't look down field to make a play when begins to run.
DISAGREE. are you kidding? If anything he looks to pass too much, thus producing jump passes and the pumps that get hit and knock the ball out. That is a wrong assessment right there. I don't see where you get that AT ALL
5. The slide three yards short of the first down when he could have easily made it and more with that blocker and no one else on the outside. And then we dont convert on that 3rd down because of him making a moronic move on second.
Yeah that was dumb, but the game was in hand, he didn't want to take the chance of injury or turnover. It's a dumb mistake, but one to be taken lightly. Never mind those other big runs for 1st he had when the game was closer...... ???
6. He can't make decisions or be decisive in the pocket. Besides that second play of the game all his completions were timing routes, screens
and easy passes.
You say he runs too fast then he's too indecisive? Contradiction right there. He may make wrong decisions, but he's making them quicker. How about when Rice came back so TJ could pass for the first??? Plus most of those timing routes and swings were with Giants nipping on his heels. Well composed.
7. Some completions just individual effort by the receiver/ The one where he was being sacked and just threw it up for Chester who luckily caught it. Thats just a terrible decision.
8. If 129 yards is improvement how bad must he really be if that is improvement.
He had 0 ints, that is much more important


I'm not trying to be derogatory but that was an awful assessment of TJ. Sounds like you're going with stuff he did weeks ago and not looking at his recent performances. Sounds like a negative nancy to me.











Look into the quote for my reply. I'm the bolded




1. He fumbled forward luckily for a first down.
When was trying to throw, like you blast him for NOT doing further down, and it gets hit out of his hand from behind/blind side. What do you expect?


He couldn't feel the pressure from
behind like most NFL quarterbacks can. I expect him to feel that pressure and evade it. Thats the problem I had with it. He fumbled so your going to go ahead and say its not his fault?
???
Im going out on a limb here but aren't fumbles bad? A bit biased there Braddock



2. Many times he just gave up on the pass and attempted to run forward and got sacked.
When there's nothing to throw to, why stay in place? That's a dumb assessment, no offense. If he didn't do that, then you'd blast him for not making decisions fast enough. He needs WR open to throw to.


No your wrong. He looked like a clueless rookie when he ran straight into the defender 2 yards before the line for a sack and he did that many times. throw it away for Pity's sake. Thats not a good thing to take the sacks he did no matter how you want to twist and turn it. Sack=bad.



3. Not great pocket presence.
I think he has great pressence. Timing and feel he needs improvement, but he stands in there until it completely collapses. I have no qualms with pressence.


Which would explain 5 sacks and a fumble right. Feeling the pressure allowed him not to fumble. And pocket presence
is what allowed him to attempt to run and get sacked because he didn't feel the guy was there. No it looks to me he feels he needs to fund some one and throw it right away. Not see the field. See his receivers. Anticipate them getting open and throw. Sometimes it looks a lot like he can't see over his lineman to see the field so he runs. Like when I saw him in training camp he looked like the shortest QB there and not a whole lot like 6'1. generously 6'0. I think thats hurting him.



4. He doesn't look down field to make a play when begins to run.
DISAGREE. are you kidding? If anything he looks to pass too much, thus producing jump passes and the pumps that get hit and knock the ball out. That is a wrong assessment right there. I don't see where you get that AT ALL


No Im not kidding. you forgot "when he begins to run". Silly goose. Read what I actually say before you go ballistic on my assessment. He looks down field sometimes more time then he should take I agree but when he begins to run he puts his head down and goes. He doesn't look to make a throw. He forgets the pass game and just looks for a lane to run and not where to make a play. And that is a bad thing. You want a guy who is mobile escape the pressure but then looks for a play down field.




5. The slide three yards short of the first down when he could have easily made it and more with that blocker and no one else on the outside. And then we dont convert on that 3rd down because of him making a moronic move on second.
Yeah that was dumb, but the game was in hand, he didn't want to take the chance of injury or turnover. It's a dumb mistake, but one to be taken lightly. Never mind those other big runs for 1st he had when the game was closer......
???


Well thanks for agreeing but did you not looks at my pros. I did put that in there. I didn't dismiss it because it might make Jackson look good. wow. I said 5 attempts for 38 yards. He had a two decently good runs that went for firsts and that was good. I acknowledged that. Don't act like I didn't.




6. He can't make decisions or be decisive in the pocket. Besides that second play of the game all his completions were timing routes, screens
and easy passes.
You say he runs too fast then he's too indecisive? Contradiction right there. He may make wrong decisions, but he's making them quicker. How about when Rice came back so TJ could pass for the first??? Plus most of those timing routes and swings were with Giants nipping on his heels. Well composed.


So waht your saying is he makes bad decisions faster so we should be happy. Got it.
;) How about the Rice coming back. That was a pass not screen or timing and he was not accurate on that one where Rice had to come back and dive for it because it was a badly thrown pass. You mean that one right.
;) To the "most Giants were nipping at his knees. I didn't see much of that personally.



7. Some completions just individual effort by the receiver. The one where he was being sacked and just threw it up for Chester who luckily caught it. Thats just a terrible decision.


Yeah I assume you agree and another one was that one where Rice had to come back and dive for it for the first you informed me about on the previous assessment.



8. If 129 yards is improvement how bad must he really be if that is improvement.
He had 0 ints, that is much more important



You know what I agree. I don't know about much more important but I like 0 INT and 129 yards then 4 INTs and 327 yards.



I'm not trying to be derogatory but that was an awful assessment of TJ. Sounds like you're going with stuff he did weeks ago and not looking at his recent performances. Sounds like a negative nancy to me.


Now thats just wrong. I gave examples with my replies now and in my original post of what he did this game today. I also rewarded him for the good he did. This is his recent performance.



Personally I thought he did okay but lets not all say he's the next Johnny U because he didn't throw any picks and had 127 yards.

C Mac D
11-25-2007, 07:03 PM
How about, "Will T-Will ever improve" and the answer is no...

Vikes_King
11-25-2007, 07:03 PM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


Personally I thought he did okay but lets not all say he's the next Johnny U because he didn't throw any picks and had 127 yards.





He had 127 yards because he really didnt throw much once we got the lead, we just kept on handing off the ball to eat up the clock.
Plus with 3 defensive TD's our offense isn't on the field as often either
:P

VikingsTw
11-25-2007, 07:06 PM
I think one of the biggest factors here is up the the WR's. The past two games our WR's have caught almost every football and thats huge, to Jackson % to us gaing first downs and keeping the football.

We need everybody else to do there job otherwise we get alot of Tarvaris Jackson haters. Today the line play was average at best and hardly gave TJ a pocket to throw.

If there is one thing in TJ's game he needs to improve his pocket pressence(Feeling the Pressure and evading the rush). He did it real well on one of his nice runs and will continue to improve.

We must continue to catch footballs and alot things will fall into place.

Vikes_King
11-25-2007, 07:07 PM
"C" wrote:


How about, "Will T-Will ever improve" and the answer is no...


idk what you've been watching, but T-Will has definatly been improving.
Its not his fault the ball doesnt come his way often

C Mac D
11-25-2007, 07:16 PM
"Vikes_King" wrote:


"C" wrote:


How about, "Will T-Will ever improve" and the answer is no...


idk what you've been watching, but T-Will has definatly been improving.
Its not his fault the ball doesnt come his way often


11 games into the season, 13 catches, 201 yards, 1 touchdown

Granted, he doesn't drop as many... that only brings him up to the level of "Mediocre"

7th overall pick.... his career yardage: 1,028... 3 career touchdowns.

Again... 7th overall pick.

That's what I've been watching.
;)

tdunc
11-25-2007, 07:21 PM
Yes.. i agree that T-jack needs to be more aware but its not his fault all the time

that two weeks in a row that mikinnie has let a guy go right around him and has cost us a fumble..

as for T-Jack improving i think he definately is improving.. especially over the last 2 weeks

i would have liked to see childress let him do more in the 4th quarter though.. we were up enough points to try a few routes that he isnt used to passing like mid range cross routes..

V-Unit
11-25-2007, 07:21 PM
I can sum up half of the post in this thread in one sentence:

"TJ isn't perfect, therefore he sucks."

PurpleGator
11-25-2007, 07:23 PM
Wow if it wasn't for our defense and NYG just sucking we would of loss that game.


T-Jack still looks really confused and nervous.
He needs to just settle down.

tdunc
11-25-2007, 07:28 PM
^^ i dont know what your talking about purple gator

this was the first week that i thought tarvaris looked confident in his throws
of the 12 he threw one was a little underthrown (the touchdown). another he threw away and i cant remember what happened to the other one

he hit the open targets and he ran the offence well (from what i saw)

NodakPaul
11-25-2007, 07:37 PM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


Wow if it wasn't for our defense and NYG just sucking we would of loss that game.


T-Jack still looks really confused and nervous.
He needs to just settle down.




Confused and nervous?
What game were you watching?
10 for 12, 139+ QB rating?
I'll take that kind of confused and nervous any day...

PurpleGator
11-25-2007, 07:40 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


Wow if it wasn't for our defense and NYG just sucking we would of loss that game.


T-Jack still looks really confused and nervous.
He needs to just settle down.




Confused and nervous?
What game were you watching?
10 for 12, 139+ QB rating?
I'll take that kind of confused and nervous any day...


How many times did he scramble and get sacked?

It wasn't that great of a performance.
Its better than before but it was against the crappy Giants.

C Mac D
11-25-2007, 07:42 PM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


Wow if it wasn't for our defense and NYG just sucking we would of loss that game.


T-Jack still looks really confused and nervous.
He needs to just settle down.




Confused and nervous?
What game were you watching?
10 for 12, 139+ QB rating?
I'll take that kind of confused and nervous any day...


How many times did he scramble and get sacked?

It wasn't that great of a performance.
Its better than before but it was against the crappy Giants.







Hahaha, whatever.

The Giants were 7-3 before today's game.

They had the most sacks in the NFL.

I'll take it.

MaxVike
11-25-2007, 07:54 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I think its gonna be funny when T-jack improves even more and people will start riding his jock again


I would love that... I was one of the many people who was/still am questioning Childress's decision to stick with TJ this year.
I felt he was too raw still.
But I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong all the way to the playoffs... :D


I don't think this really changes what many were thinking, which was that the team has the talent to win this year but the QB position was holding the team back. By starting the year with a better QB, we could be looking at a better record and a good shot in the playoffs. By bringing TJ along as the primary guy and Holcolm and Bolinger not doing all that well we just may have conceded a year that didn't have to be.

Maybe he can do enough to get us into the playoffs yet and see what happens but with F.A the way it is, things can really change on a team in a year.


Well put.
He took a step forward today.
That is a fierce pass rush the Giants have, and I'm actually very suprised by his stats.

I totally agree that this Team is a Playoff Team with good QB play, today it was decent.
He has five more games this year to answer this thread's Subject.
I'm not sold yet.

PurpleGator
11-25-2007, 07:57 PM
"MaxVike" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I think its gonna be funny when T-jack improves even more and people will start riding his jock again


I would love that... I was one of the many people who was/still am questioning Childress's decision to stick with TJ this year.
I felt he was too raw still.
But I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong all the way to the playoffs... :D


I don't think this really changes what many were thinking, which was that the team has the talent to win this year but the QB position was holding the team back. By starting the year with a better QB, we could be looking at a better record and a good shot in the playoffs. By bringing TJ along as the primary guy and Holcolm and Bolinger not doing all that well we just may have conceded a year that didn't have to be.

Maybe he can do enough to get us into the playoffs yet and see what happens but with F.A the way it is, things can really change on a team in a year.


Well put.
He took a step forward today.
That is a fierce pass rush the Giants have, and I'm actually very suprised by his stats.

I totally agree that this Team is a Playoff Team with good QB play, today it was decent.
He has five more games this year to answer this thread's Subject.
I'm not sold yet.


Not Sold... Not Sold...

The Giants were a crappy 7-3 team.

The thing is with the Vikings is you never know who is going to show up.

We kick the crap out of San Diego, got spanked against a rival, barely beat Oakland at home, and kicked the Giants butt away.

Who are we?

purplepride_1961
11-25-2007, 07:58 PM
At first i thought he was always going to stink up the field, but over the season I seen much improvent from him. This giants game really open up many fan's minds. Lets hope he can keep it up.

V-Unit
11-25-2007, 08:00 PM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I think its gonna be funny when T-jack improves even more and people will start riding his jock again


I would love that... I was one of the many people who was/still am questioning Childress's decision to stick with TJ this year.
I felt he was too raw still.
But I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong all the way to the playoffs... :D


I don't think this really changes what many were thinking, which was that the team has the talent to win this year but the QB position was holding the team back. By starting the year with a better QB, we could be looking at a better record and a good shot in the playoffs. By bringing TJ along as the primary guy and Holcolm and Bolinger not doing all that well we just may have conceded a year that didn't have to be.

Maybe he can do enough to get us into the playoffs yet and see what happens but with F.A the way it is, things can really change on a team in a year.


Well put.
He took a step forward today.
That is a fierce pass rush the Giants have, and I'm actually very suprised by his stats.

I totally agree that this Team is a Playoff Team with good QB play, today it was decent.
He has five more games this year to answer this thread's Subject.
I'm not sold yet.


Not Sold... Not Sold...

The Giants were a crappy 7-3 team.

The thing is with the Vikings is you never know who is going to show up.

We kick the crap out of San Diego, got spanked against a rival, barely beat Oakland at home, and kicked the Giants butt away.

Who are we?



So if he plays well against a bad team it doesn't count?

sdfrenchy
11-25-2007, 08:04 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


I think one of the biggest factors here is up the the WR's. The past two games our WR's have caught almost every football and thats huge, to Jackson % to us gaing first downs and keeping the football.

We need everybody else to do there job otherwise we get alot of Tarvaris Jackson haters. Today the line play was average at best and hardly gave TJ a pocket to throw.

If there is one thing in TJ's game he needs to improve his pocket pressence(Feeling the Pressure and evading the rush). He did it real well on one of his nice runs and will continue to improve.

We must continue to catch footballs and alot things will fall into place.


I think you're right on this.
Everybody remember, our QB is young and raw. Our wrs are mostly young and raw. I think that the longer these guys play together the better they will be. TJack's in his second year. He is showing improvement and I'm hoping that next year will be a breakout year for our offense.

PurpleGator
11-25-2007, 08:05 PM
"V" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:




I think its gonna be funny when T-jack improves even more and people will start riding his jock again


I would love that... I was one of the many people who was/still am questioning Childress's decision to stick with TJ this year.
I felt he was too raw still.
But I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong all the way to the playoffs... :D


I don't think this really changes what many were thinking, which was that the team has the talent to win this year but the QB position was holding the team back. By starting the year with a better QB, we could be looking at a better record and a good shot in the playoffs. By bringing TJ along as the primary guy and Holcolm and Bolinger not doing all that well we just may have conceded a year that didn't have to be.

Maybe he can do enough to get us into the playoffs yet and see what happens but with F.A the way it is, things can really change on a team in a year.


Well put.
He took a step forward today.
That is a fierce pass rush the Giants have, and I'm actually very suprised by his stats.

I totally agree that this Team is a Playoff Team with good QB play, today it was decent.
He has five more games this year to answer this thread's Subject.
I'm not sold yet.


Not Sold... Not Sold...

The Giants were a crappy 7-3 team.

The thing is with the Vikings is you never know who is going to show up.

We kick the crap out of San Diego, got spanked against a rival, barely beat Oakland at home, and kicked the Giants butt away.

Who are we?



So if he plays well against a bad team it doesn't count?


I am a Gator fan.

Expectations are high.
You have to have almost a perfect game every game.


Just like Tebow!
8)

vegasvike
11-25-2007, 08:11 PM
"V4L" wrote:


T-Jack played a very efficient game and that's all we need right now

No turnovers.. Just a game manager and someone who can move the chains sometimes

10/12 is an improvment over his last game.. Which was also pretty good

Everyone is saying 124 yards who cares? Look at the attempts..
And he has started to show better awarness.. Getting rid of the ball and running if it breaks down

He is definitley starting to improve.. I give him about a year and a half to really show people what he can do though.. He will get us some wins tho

5-2 under him is very good



No you misunderstood....thats good for someone like big Ben when he had a running game and defence to rely on. But the VIKES are trying to rely on defence and a running game.....you see they are not the same ::) It gets me that TJack is supposed to come in and be a PRO-BOWLER when many on THIS SITE would say that Grossboy is going to be an elite QB he just needs time. do we really need the hipocracy?

V-Unit
11-25-2007, 08:14 PM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:






I think its gonna be funny when T-jack improves even more and people will start riding his jock again


I would love that... I was one of the many people who was/still am questioning Childress's decision to stick with TJ this year.
I felt he was too raw still.
But I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong all the way to the playoffs... :D


I don't think this really changes what many were thinking, which was that the team has the talent to win this year but the QB position was holding the team back. By starting the year with a better QB, we could be looking at a better record and a good shot in the playoffs. By bringing TJ along as the primary guy and Holcolm and Bolinger not doing all that well we just may have conceded a year that didn't have to be.

Maybe he can do enough to get us into the playoffs yet and see what happens but with F.A the way it is, things can really change on a team in a year.


Well put.
He took a step forward today.
That is a fierce pass rush the Giants have, and I'm actually very suprised by his stats.

I totally agree that this Team is a Playoff Team with good QB play, today it was decent.
He has five more games this year to answer this thread's Subject.
I'm not sold yet.


Not Sold... Not Sold...

The Giants were a crappy 7-3 team.

The thing is with the Vikings is you never know who is going to show up.

We kick the crap out of San Diego, got spanked against a rival, barely beat Oakland at home, and kicked the Giants butt away.

Who are we?



So if he plays well against a bad team it doesn't count?


I am a Gator fan.

Expectations are high.
You have to have almost a perfect game every game.


Just like Tebow!
8)


If TJ isn't living up to your expectations, neither are the Gators.

Garland Greene
11-25-2007, 08:29 PM
He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)

NodakPaul
11-25-2007, 08:32 PM
"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Yes, that was enough to win the game.


BTW, you also forgot the 38 yards rushing and zero turnovers.
Would you have rather he went 21 of 49 for 273 yards?
You know who did that today?
Eli.
How did that turn out for him?

vegasvike
11-25-2007, 08:36 PM
"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


IF he wouldnt have completed that 60 yard pass....if if was a fifth then we'd all be drunk. He did complete it, all 60 yards without closing his eyes and praying Rice got it. If we were watching the same game T-Jack actually looked the free safety off before throwing it. Give him some credit, he is still learning

Garland Greene
11-25-2007, 08:36 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Yes, that was enough to win the game.


BTW, you also forgot the 38 yards rushing and zero turnovers.
Would you have rather he went 21 of 49 for 273 yards?
You know who did that today?
Eli.
How did that turn out for him?


He did not win the game the Defense did. 1 TD? last I checked the Giants scored 17 and 17 is more than 7. i know I am bad at math but last I checked ithat was still the case.

BleedinPandG
11-25-2007, 08:40 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Yes, that was enough to win the game.


BTW, you also forgot the 38 yards rushing and zero turnovers.
Would you have rather he went 21 of 49 for 273 yards?
You know who did that today?
Eli.
How did that turn out for him?


He did not win the game the Defense did. 1 TD? last I checked the Giants scored 17 and 17 is more than 7. i know I am bad at math but last I checked ithat was still the case.


Yes you are...

Sid pass 7 pts... CT run 7 points... two Field Goals 6 points... 7 + 7 + 6 = 20 which last I checked is greater than 17...

Beyond that, it's impossible to say what the Vikes O would have done had they been forced to be more aggressive.
They were playing a waste the clock win the game O because of the lead they had.

vikesfargo
11-25-2007, 08:43 PM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


The thing is with the Vikings is you never know who is going to show up.

We kick the crap out of San Diego, got spanked against a rival, barely beat Oakland at home, and kicked the Giants butt away.

Who are we?



San Diego - bad team, victory
Green Bay - good team, loss
Oakland - bad team, victory
NYG - good team, victory

We're starting to beat the bad teams consistently, and now we beat a good team. If we can beat the Lions, that will be two good teams (going by record) in a row.

vegasvike
11-25-2007, 08:45 PM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Yes, that was enough to win the game.


BTW, you also forgot the 38 yards rushing and zero turnovers.
Would you have rather he went 21 of 49 for 273 yards?
You know who did that today?
Eli.
How did that turn out for him?


He did not win the game the Defense did. 1 TD? last I checked the Giants scored 17 and 17 is more than 7. i know I am bad at math but last I checked ithat was still the case.


Yes you are...

Sid pass 7 pts... CT run 7 points... two Field Goals 6 points... 7 + 7 + 6 = 20 which last I checked is greater than 17...

Beyond that, it's impossible to say what the Vikes O would have done had they been forced to be more aggressive.
They were playing a waste the clock win the game O because of the lead they had.


Did any of you see the PC with Eli after the game? he said that he is launching a new cologne called Interception if you were it the next guy is sure to score!!!

Garland Greene
11-25-2007, 08:47 PM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Yes, that was enough to win the game.


BTW, you also forgot the 38 yards rushing and zero turnovers.
Would you have rather he went 21 of 49 for 273 yards?
You know who did that today?
Eli.
How did that turn out for him?


He did not win the game the Defense did. 1 TD? last I checked the Giants scored 17 and 17 is more than 7. i know I am bad at math but last I checked ithat was still the case.


Yes you are...

Sid pass 7 pts... CT run 7 points... two Field Goals 6 points... 7 + 7 + 6 = 20 which last I checked is greater than 17...

Beyond that, it's impossible to say what the Vikes O would have done had they been forced to be more aggressive.
They were playing a waste the clock win the game O because of the lead they had.





So handing the ball off to CT because of a INT to the 7 yard line by the defense. T-Joke did what on that play? Again set up by the defense. Good try but No.

mnvikes61
11-25-2007, 08:55 PM
I missed most of the game due to FOX changing to a "more competitive game", but 10-12 is very accurate. Did it look like he was learning when to put some touch on the ball and when to burn it in there, or where all the passes, minus the bomb to Rice, dump offs?

MaxVike
11-25-2007, 08:58 PM
"V" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"MaxVike" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


[quote author=V4L link=topic=39750.msg679218#msg679218 date=1196032115]
I think its gonna be funny when T-jack improves even more and people will start riding his jock again


I would love that... I was one of the many people who was/still am questioning Childress's decision to stick with TJ this year.
I felt he was too raw still.
But I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong all the way to the playoffs... :D


I don't think this really changes what many were thinking, which was that the team has the talent to win this year but the QB position was holding the team back. By starting the year with a better QB, we could be looking at a better record and a good shot in the playoffs. By bringing TJ along as the primary guy and Holcolm and Bolinger not doing all that well we just may have conceded a year that didn't have to be.

Maybe he can do enough to get us into the playoffs yet and see what happens but with F.A the way it is, things can really change on a team in a year.


Well put.
He took a step forward today.
That is a fierce pass rush the Giants have, and I'm actually very suprised by his stats.

I totally agree that this Team is a Playoff Team with good QB play, today it was decent.
He has five more games this year to answer this thread's Subject.
I'm not sold yet.


Not Sold... Not Sold...

The Giants were a crappy 7-3 team.

The thing is with the Vikings is you never know who is going to show up.

We kick the crap out of San Diego, got spanked against a rival, barely beat Oakland at home, and kicked the Giants butt away.

Who are we?




Nope, not sold.
Our defense and two of our running backs have more TD's than TJack.
No, I'm not sold...yet.
Did he have a better game today, yeah.
Made some really good throws too.
If you are calling the Giants a terrible 7-3 team, surely you would agree that TJack has earned the moniker of the worst 5-2 QB in the history of the NFL
:-\.
All that being said, today, TJack showed some signs of improvement today, and, of course I'm hopefull he improves enough to be able to carry the Team to victory when needed...he's not there, yet.

BleedinPandG
11-25-2007, 08:59 PM
"mnvikes61" wrote:


I missed most of the game due to FOX changing to a "more competitive game", but 10-12 is very accurate. Did it look like he was learning when to put some touch on the ball and when to burn it in there, or where all the passes, minus the bomb to Rice, dump offs?


No real dump offs... two screens that were right on the money (Dugan fell on the 2nd)... made some very clutch throws in tight spots... biggest knock was he held the ball a touch too long a few times... against a D line like the Gmen he needs to know to count to 4 and then either throw it away or take off running for his life.

mnvikes61
11-25-2007, 09:02 PM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"mnvikes61" wrote:


I missed most of the game due to FOX changing to a "more competitive game", but 10-12 is very accurate. Did it look like he was learning when to put some touch on the ball and when to burn it in there, or where all the passes, minus the bomb to Rice, dump offs?


No real dump offs... two screens that were right on the money (Dugan fell on the 2nd)... made some very clutch throws in tight spots... biggest knock was he held the ball a touch too long a few times... against a D line like the Gmen he needs to know to count to 4 and then either throw it away or take off running for his life.

Thanks for the info. I like the fact that he rushed quite a few times this game too as it helps the entire offense.

Potus2028
11-25-2007, 09:12 PM
"mnvikes61" wrote:


"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"mnvikes61" wrote:


I missed most of the game due to FOX changing to a "more competitive game", but 10-12 is very accurate. Did it look like he was learning when to put some touch on the ball and when to burn it in there, or where all the passes, minus the bomb to Rice, dump offs?


No real dump offs... two screens that were right on the money (Dugan fell on the 2nd)... made some very clutch throws in tight spots... biggest knock was he held the ball a touch too long a few times... against a D line like the Gmen he needs to know to count to 4 and then either throw it away or take off running for his life.

Thanks for the info. I like the fact that he rushed quite a few times this game too as it helps the entire offense.


i dont know if that was a rhetorical sarcastic question.. but if it was.. it was a GOOD one.

t-jack was zipping some passes in there (i.e. to bobby wade on the 3rd down slant route). but he also knew how to loft it up (i'm pretty sure the pass to shiancoe was a softer pass, not sure though). he set up screens nicely. he knew when to run (minus two or three plays). this game is the game that brings me back to tjack and chili.

Fact: T-Jack is 5-2 this year as a starter....

to me he seems to be developing just fine

gabe_menendez
11-25-2007, 09:13 PM
wow we just won a important game and we have a chance at the playoffs, and some of you are being negative? Sit back and relax and enjoy the road to the playoffs, I know I hopped in a car to that road at 3 today. AD will be back next week, and maybie even antoine. Just a thought..

Mikecarter81
11-25-2007, 09:13 PM
"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Please no offense, but that thinking is short sighted in my opinion..
One argument that gets thrown out here a lot, is
QB comparisons.
I've in the past looked up QB numbers for Elway, Bradshaw, and Young. I've particularly lookat milestones (i.e. first ten games, first full season, etc) The numbers are inconclusive some had better numbers others were more horrible. Yet one thing was constant these players started on crappy teams with little to no offensive weapons.
Yet as they got a few more players to work with the numbers improved The point is they developed into not only great QB's, but
also coaches developed talent around them to suceed.

I think right now Jackson/Rice and Jackson/wade are developing great chemistry.
Another thing I have is perspective. I live in Madison Wisconsin I rarely get to see games in consecutive weeks.
What I've seen T Jack do over the last couples times
I've watched is look more relaxed, more accurate, and confident in his players.
Now this could blow up next week, but its what I see from week to week.

Mike

ultravikingfan
11-25-2007, 09:15 PM
Wow, because TJ did not "Brady-it-up" he blew ass I guess.

Look, I have been all over his shit this year...but he did good today.
Yes, he did stand in the pocket for too long.
But how many turnovers did he have?
None.
How many bad passes?
2 if you could call it that.

If my QB goes 1 for 2 and we win...he did a good job...period!
Some teams do not rely on the QB production to win.
The Ravens and Bucs did not during their SB years, why can't we be the same.
Have a QB who can manage the game, make the 3rd down conversions, and not turnover the ball.

Gator, did you even watch the game?

Garland, I like you man...but you are starting to resemble CmacD obsessing over 1 thing.

C Mac D
11-25-2007, 09:17 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Garland, I like you man...but you are starting to resemble CmacD obsessing over 1 thing.


Ouch... I've tried to shut up about Childress though.
:-

Garland Greene
11-25-2007, 09:27 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Wow, because TJ did not "Brady-it-up" he blew ass I guess.

Look, I have been all over his shit this year...but he did good today.
Yes, he did stand in the pocket for too long.
But how many turnovers did he have?
None.
How many bad passes?
2 if you could call it that.

If my QB goes 1 for 2 and we win...he did a good job...period!
Some teams do not rely on the QB production to win.
The Ravens and Bucs did not during their SB years, why can't we be the same.
Have a QB who can manage the game, make the 3rd down conversions, and not turnover the ball.

Gator, did you even watch the game?

Garland, I like you man...but you are starting to resemble CmacD obsessing over 1 thing.


LOL, I would not say obsessed but I have to say that I have yet to see the improvement that everyine is sayuing. Lets see some consistancy, I am not saying he has to Brady it up either but I want to see a game where he does more than what we have seen.
I want to see a game that we will be able to have onfidence that he can carry this team on its back. Does not have to have great stats, but has to step up and prove that he is the Qb of the future. I want him to prove me wrong, but right now I don't see it happening. Until he proves otherwise I will remain with my belief that he is and always will be a below avg Qb at best.

Oh and I like you to Ultra :D

Caine
11-25-2007, 09:27 PM
I have been a BIG Jackson doubter...and remain one....but he played pretty darn well today.


No, he didn't set the league on it's ear, but he made enough plays to get the "W"...and today that's enough.
Someday, I hope we can have one of those QB's that dominates games and strikes fear into the hearts of opponents...

...but, today, Jackson looked alert.
Made a few pretty good throws.
Made some good decisions.
Didn't get rattled.
Didn't throw stupid passes.

So, to me, that equals a pretty good game...from anybody.

Will I be lumping him in with the greatest QB's of all time....nope.
But if he performs at the level he did today every week...well...I won't be quite so critical of him.

In short, I saw a better QB today than I've seen in the past 1 1/2 years.
Nice job, Tarvaris.
You did good, kid.

Caine

Garland Greene
11-25-2007, 09:35 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Please no offense, but that thinking is short sighted in my opinion..
One argument that gets thrown out here a lot, is
QB comparisons.
I've in the past looked up QB numbers for Elway, Bradshaw, and Young. I've particularly lookat milestones (i.e. first ten games, first full season, etc) The numbers are inconclusive some had better numbers others were more horrible. Yet one thing was constant these players started on crappy teams with little to no offensive weapons.
Yet as they got a few more players to work with the numbers improved The point is they developed into not only great QB's, but
also coaches developed talent around them to suceed.

I think right now Jackson/Rice and Jackson/wade are developing great chemistry.
Another thing I have is perspective. I live in Madison Wisconsin I rarely get to see games in consecutive weeks.
What I've seen T Jack do over the last couples times
I've watched is look more relaxed, more accurate, and confident in his players.
Now this could blow up next week, but its what I see from week to week.

Mike



true but for every Bradshaw, Elway and Young there are also he Ryan Leaf's, Akili Smith's and Tim Couch's of the league. Again when he can show me some consistancy and solid numbers on a regular basis, and show me that he is capable of carrying this team on his back and I will start beliving in him.
Don't get me wrong I am glad we won the game, but credit needs to be given to teh Defense today for the win, not the QB.

V4L
11-25-2007, 10:58 PM
Garland.. Wow

It's a team game.. took every player to win the game not just the D

T-jack played a very solid game and that's all we ask of him right now

Our offense is a dink and dunk.. What more do u want? He is doing what is asked.. Manage and move the chains with the short passes

Not many yards ur probably gonna say right? Who cares? 12 passes won't get u many.. And we are a run first team.. The best in the league

We aren't askin him to be Peyton Manning in just his 8th start or so?

Mikecarter81
11-25-2007, 11:14 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Please no offense, but that thinking is short sighted in my opinion..
One argument that gets thrown out here a lot, is
QB comparisons.
I've in the past looked up QB numbers for Elway, Bradshaw, and Young. I've particularly lookat milestones (i.e. first ten games, first full season, etc) The numbers are inconclusive some had better numbers others were more horrible. Yet one thing was constant these players started on crappy teams with little to no offensive weapons.
Yet as they got a few more players to work with the numbers improved The point is they developed into not only great QB's, but
also coaches developed talent around them to suceed.

I think right now Jackson/Rice and Jackson/wade are developing great chemistry.
Another thing I have is perspective. I live in Madison Wisconsin I rarely get to see games in consecutive weeks.
What I've seen T Jack do over the last couples times
I've watched is look more relaxed, more accurate, and confident in his players.
Now this could blow up next week, but its what I see from week to week.

Mike



true but for every Bradshaw, Elway and Young there are also he Ryan Leaf's, Akili Smith's and Tim Couch's of the league. Again when he can show me some consistancy and solid numbers on a regular basis, and show me that he is capable of carrying this team on his back and I will start beliving in him.
Don't get me wrong I am glad we won the game, but credit needs to be given to teh Defense today for the win, not the QB.



Garland

I am actually glad you brought those names up.
Like I stated before success in the NFL is very skewed, especially at the QB position, all of my future hall of famers took three to five years to develop and had great talent surrounding them at the QB position.

Couch, Leaf, Smith never had the talent level.
Those teams forced the QB to come in under treally difficult odds and win.
I often wonder how Leaf would of faired if for instance he came to Minnesota during the late 90's and had time to develop with offensive talent.
He
Remember Guys like Bradshaw, Young and Elway were surrounded by awesome talent and organizations.

Mike

NodakPaul
11-25-2007, 11:19 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Yes, that was enough to win the game.


BTW, you also forgot the 38 yards rushing and zero turnovers.
Would you have rather he went 21 of 49 for 273 yards?
You know who did that today?
Eli.
How did that turn out for him?


He did not win the game the Defense did. 1 TD? last I checked the Giants scored 17 and 17 is more than 7. i know I am bad at math but last I checked ithat was still the case.


Yes you are...

Sid pass 7 pts... CT run 7 points... two Field Goals 6 points... 7 + 7 + 6 = 20 which last I checked is greater than 17...

Beyond that, it's impossible to say what the Vikes O would have done had they been forced to be more aggressive.
They were playing a waste the clock win the game O because of the lead they had.





So handing the ball off to CT because of a INT to the 7 yard line by the defense. T-Joke did what on that play? Again set up by the defense. Good try but No.




Wow.
Talk about looking for every possible negative.
Yeah, all TJ did was not lose the game for us.
Manage the game well, don't give the ball up, put the ball in the end zone a couple of times and get in FG range a couple of times...
::)

Geez, Garland - He even put together a couple of Loooong drives.
How about the 8 or 9 minute drive in the third.

Complain about TJ all you want when he has a bad game.
But complaining about him when he has a good one is silly.
NYG came into this game leading the league in sacks.
But TJ didn't panic under pressure.
Give him some credit when it is due.
Otherwise it is just blind hatred.

NodakPaul
11-25-2007, 11:20 PM
"V4L" wrote:


Garland.. Wow

It's a team game.. took every player to win the game not just the D

T-jack played a very solid game and that's all we ask of him right now

Our offense is a dink and dunk.. What more do u want? He is doing what is asked.. Manage and move the chains with the short passes

Not many yards ur probably gonna say right? Who cares? 12 passes won't get u many.. And we are a run first team.. The best in the league

We aren't askin him to be Peyton Manning in just his 8th start or so?


Exactly!
All TJ did was everything the coach asked of him and we won the game... but that apparently isn't good enough for some people.

V4L
11-25-2007, 11:22 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:




He has to...T-joke can't get any worse, although he has tried several times this year. T-joke has no place really left to go but up.

Outside of his 60 yard pass to Rice (a WR that couldn't get open so its their fault that he has done poor) he woud of completed 9 passes for 69 yards. That I am sure was more than enough to win the game. ::)


Yes, that was enough to win the game.


BTW, you also forgot the 38 yards rushing and zero turnovers.
Would you have rather he went 21 of 49 for 273 yards?
You know who did that today?
Eli.
How did that turn out for him?


He did not win the game the Defense did. 1 TD? last I checked the Giants scored 17 and 17 is more than 7. i know I am bad at math but last I checked ithat was still the case.


Yes you are...

Sid pass 7 pts... CT run 7 points... two Field Goals 6 points... 7 + 7 + 6 = 20 which last I checked is greater than 17...

Beyond that, it's impossible to say what the Vikes O would have done had they been forced to be more aggressive.
They were playing a waste the clock win the game O because of the lead they had.





So handing the ball off to CT because of a INT to the 7 yard line by the defense. T-Joke did what on that play? Again set up by the defense. Good try but No.




Wow.
Talk about looking for every possible negative.
Yeah, all TJ did was not lose the game for us.
Manage the game well, don't give the ball up, put the ball in the end zone a couple of times and get in FG range a couple of times...
::)

Geez, Garland - He even put together a couple of Loooong drives.
How about the 8 or 9 minute drive in the third.

Complain about TJ all you want when he has a bad game.
But complaining about him when he has a good one is silly.
NYG came into this game leading the league in sacks.
But TJ didn't panic under pressure.
Give him some credit when it is due.
Otherwise it is just blind hatred.



Yes Garland is a negative nancy

Frostbite
11-26-2007, 01:49 AM
"Caine" wrote:


I have been a BIG Jackson doubter...and remain one....but he played pretty darn well today.

No, he didn't set the league on it's ear, but he made enough plays to get the "W"...and today that's enough.
Someday, I hope we can have one of those QB's that dominates games and strikes fear into the hearts of opponents...

...but, today, Jackson looked alert.
Made a few pretty good throws.
Made some good decisions.
Didn't get rattled.
Didn't throw stupid passes.

So, to me, that equals a pretty good game...from anybody.

Will I be lumping him in with the greatest QB's of all time....nope.
But if he performs at the level he did today every week...well...I won't be quite so critical of him.

In short, I saw a better QB today than I've seen in the past 1 1/2 years.
Nice job, Tarvaris.
You did good, kid.

Caine





Me too Caine....T.jack was Average today....didn't hurt us....mad some plays. He did better! 10-12 129 yards 1 TD....That's not exactly lighting things up out there though. Sometimes I think we have grown so accustomed to seeing bad play from the QBs that a mediocre performance suddenly looks great. The Bottom line is T.Jack and the entire Offense is going to have to turn it up a notch if we are to make a serious playoff bid for a WildCard spot. The defense will not be the deciding factor in ALL remaining games on the regular schedule.

The O-line is a key factor here. Not only for protecting T.Jack and giving him time but also in opening holes for the RBs. Chesters 77 yards wasn't exactly great either. The 28 points scored by the defense today over-shadowed the lack-luster... and in my opinion... mediocre offensive play. Still better than we saw earlier from T.Jack....I will admit that....but not there yet and will be exposed down the stretch if things don't pick up offensively soon.

I believe Eli Manning had hsi worst performance of his Career today with a lot of help from our defense. With a better than average offense the Score could have easily been in the 50s or higher. When you stop and really think about it 13 offensive points is NOT stellar. Of course we will take it....!!!

Cheers!

happy camper
11-26-2007, 02:15 AM
I was really impressed with Jackson getting away from Strahan. Thought he did a nice job of getting away and then staying alert and running.

Schutz
11-26-2007, 02:23 AM
T-Jack gets a solid B today.
He didn't miss easy throws, made the one long bomb, and had a couple of escape artist moments to get some rushing yards, he also didn't sit in the pocket contemplating whether to run or not while he got sacked as much as he usually does.
Though he still did get sacked 4 times, which could have been more, and looked a little lost at times.
But I feel better about him than I did a couple of weeks ago that's for sure.
I just hope T-Jack continues to prove me wrong instead of going back to crappy QB land.

Vikes_King
11-26-2007, 04:37 AM
people need to stop being down on the fact that he only was 10-12 with 129 yards.
You have to remember we were playing with a decent lead for most of the game, all we did was run the ball pretty much. He also ran 5 times for 38 yards.

With the team that we have, when we're in a position where we're leading by that much, all our team needs to do is go out there and grind the clock down.
I know Taylors numbers weren't very exciting this game either, but he did exactly what he needed to.
Pound it down their throats.


stats are fun and all, but they don't tell the story in this game.
he did EXACTLY what was needed of him to come away with a W. And thats hand the ball off so we don't risk blowing our lead through the air

singersp
11-26-2007, 06:41 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Wow, because TJ did not "Brady-it-up" he blew ass I guess.

Look, I have been all over his shit this year...but he did good today.
Yes, he did stand in the pocket for too long.
But how many turnovers did he have?
None.
How many bad passes?
2 if you could call it that.



Plus at least one of those passes was smartly thrown away to avoid the sack/intentional grounding, just like last week. That makes about two not so well, thrown passes in the past two weeks.

He didn't throw for a ton of yards, but that is what I expect from a WCO. He did what he had to do to manage the game & keep control of the ball.

PurpleTide
11-26-2007, 07:20 AM
Tarvaris, playing with a lead, completed 10/12, for a 83.3% completion %. He made key throws, converted several 3rd downs, made plays with his legs, didn't turn the ball over, and executed the gameplan to the nth degree. I'd say this was another big step in the right direction for T-Jack, and I am excited to see how we play down the stretch. Great game Tarvaris keep it going.~Skol

BleedinPandG
11-26-2007, 07:23 AM
"Frostbite" wrote:



Me too Caine....T.jack was Average today....didn't hurt us....mad some plays. He did better! 10-12 129 yards 1 TD....That's not exactly lighting things up out there though. Sometimes I think we have grown so accustomed to seeing bad play from the QBs that a mediocre performance suddenly looks great. The Bottom line is T.Jack and the entire Offense is going to have to turn it up a notch if we are to make a serious playoff bid for a WildCard spot. The defense will not be the deciding factor in ALL remaining games on the regular schedule.

The O-line is a key factor here. Not only for protecting T.Jack and giving him time but also in opening holes for the RBs. Chesters 77 yards wasn't exactly great either. The 28 points scored by the defense today over-shadowed the lack-luster... and in my opinion... mediocre offensive play. Still better than we saw earlier from T.Jack....I will admit that....but not there yet and will be exposed down the stretch if things don't pick up offensively soon.

I believe Eli Manning had hsi worst performance of his Career today with a lot of help from our defense. With a better than average offense the Score could have easily been in the 50s or higher. When you stop and really think about it 13 offensive points is NOT stellar. Of course we will take it....!!!

Cheers!


Did you even watch the game?
We are the Vikings... we have more class then the Patriots... when you are sitting on a 4 score lead in the 4th quarter there is no reason to try to light it up.
You can literally kneel down 4 times every time you get the ball and the other team can't win as long as you can recover the onside kicks.
No, CT didn't light it up.
The Giants knew we were going to run because of the big lead and sat on the run.
Because of the lead we were an even more predictable offense then normal but that was fine with all parties BECAUSE of the lead.
You can NOT analyze statistics the way you are trying to without understanding the dynamics of the game they were from.
Sure, if we needed to score more on O and those were the final stats (200 yards offense), many of us would be disappointed.
But that wasn't the case here.

Prophet
11-26-2007, 08:43 AM
When you are a bottom-of-the-barrel starting NFL QB it isn't too difficult to improve.
I've seen improvements, but, he also drives me crazy in some plays.
It was refreshing to see Eli play like a moron yesterday though.
The jury is still out on TJack.
I hope he contintues to show improvement that is, hopefully, at a faster rate than the subtle improvements I've noticed so far.
I also hope he isn't as injury prone as he appears to be so far.

V-Unit
11-26-2007, 09:20 AM
The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?

AngloVike
11-26-2007, 09:30 AM
One thing the game did prove is the difference made by having an average/competent QB playing. With the schemes we have played it shows that we don't necessarily need a Brady/Manning/Romo - though that would be good. If you have someone that can make the throws when needed so that we can mix up the run/pass plays then we'll see the results we had yesterday and against SD

mblack76
11-26-2007, 09:31 AM
QBs against NYG (Last 4 games)
Detroit- Kitna = Sacks:3, Int:3, Fumbles:0, Fumbles Lost:0, TD:1, Passing Yds:377 Rushing Yds:0 Yds Lost:26
Cowboys- Romo = Sacks:1, Int:1, Fumbles:1, Fumbles Lost:0, TD:4 Passing Yds:247, Rushing Yds:0, Yds Lost:4
49ers- Dilfer = Sacks:6, Int:2, Fumbles:3, Fumbles Lost:2, TD:2, Passing Yds:209, Rushing Yds:11 Yds Lost:45
Vikings- T-Jack = Sacks:4, Int:0, Fumbles:1, Fumbles Lost:0, TD:1, Passing Yds:129, Rushing Yds:38 Yds Lost:5

Average for past 4 games:
Giants Defense= Sacks:3.5, Int:1.5, Fumbles:1.25, Fumbles Lost:0.5, TD:1.75 Passing Yds:240.5, Rushing Yds:12.25, Yds Lost:20

Marrdro
11-26-2007, 09:31 AM
"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?

Great point V.

Eli screwed the pooch against a somewhat stellar (statistically) pass defense and lost the game. TJ, against the leagues leading pass rush did not.

Props to the RB's, OL, WR's and QB for doing what was needed to be done with no major mistakes that would have cost us the game..

bleedpurple
11-26-2007, 09:57 AM
Best game for TJ by far.... He actually looked like he saw the entire field, which i havent seen him do yet... Saw it a little last week, but this week was alot better..

For all the people saying he only threw of 129 or so yards, well... the dude only threw the ball 12 times... c'mon!!! how many are you supposed to throw for with 12 attempts.. that's a 10 yard average per throw.. i think most QB's would take that average...

If he can be consistent, and play like this, i can see us being a serious threat the rest of the way... I think we should sit AP for another week though...

It'll be scary to see what we can do with another good receiver...

i_bleed_purple
11-26-2007, 10:06 AM
"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.

take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.

mblack76
11-26-2007, 10:11 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.

take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.



Wrong. You will have 9 of 11. You can look at the 69 yards and see mediocre play but I look at what was achieved with the 69 yards and I see chains being moved putting the team in scoring situations.

Purple Floyd
11-26-2007, 11:04 AM
Hopefully in the coming games they will give TJ a few more throws. 25 of so throws a game would give us more balance and keep the safeties from cheating the line which will open up the field for Peterson.

V-Unit
11-26-2007, 12:45 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.

take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.




I'm not saying he was great, I'm saying he was better than mediocre. Of course there are some areas for improvement, but saying he had a crappy game yesterday is just a lie.

Why does the Sidney TD not count? That makes no sense to me. Analyze his entire game or don't analyze it at all. He made a big play to start the day and give his team an early lead. After that, he played well, completing almost all of his passes and keeping plays alive with his legs. Most importantly, no turnovers.

At least you are willing to give him time to get better.

NodakPaul
11-26-2007, 12:47 PM
"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.

take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.




I'm not saying he was great, I'm saying he was better than mediocre. Of course there are some areas for improvement, but saying he had a crappy game yesterday is just a lie.

Why does the Sidney TD not count? That makes no sense to me. Analyze his entire game or don't analyze it at all. He made a big play to start the day and give his team an early lead. After that, he played well, completing almost all of his passes and keeping plays alive with his legs. Most importantly, no turnovers.

At least you are willing to give him time to get better.


The Ric TD doesn't count because in order for TJ haters to cling to the belief that he had a crappy game they need to overlook the 60 yard TD pass in which he looked off the safety before making a nice (if slightly under thrown) pass to his WR. ;D

Marrdro
11-26-2007, 12:52 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.

take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.




I'm not saying he was great, I'm saying he was better than mediocre. Of course there are some areas for improvement, but saying he had a crappy game yesterday is just a lie.

Why does the Sidney TD not count? That makes no sense to me. Analyze his entire game or don't analyze it at all. He made a big play to start the day and give his team an early lead. After that, he played well, completing almost all of his passes and keeping plays alive with his legs. Most importantly, no turnovers.

At least you are willing to give him time to get better.


The Ric TD doesn't count because in order for TJ haters to cling to the belief that he had a crappy game they need to overlook the 60 yard TD pass in which he looked off the safety before making a nice (if slightly under thrown) pass to his WR. ;D

You know, you made me remember something I was thinking yesterday during the game.......

All most everybody who says that wins and losses are the only stat that matter when it comes to showing improvement must admit that a 5-2 record shows a huge improvement over last year.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Very interesting if any will try to defend that statement.
;D

V-Unit
11-26-2007, 01:00 PM
Unfortunately Marr, they will use this line:
"TJ didn't do crap in those games. We won those games because of Peterson."

Nothing TJ does matters until he wins without Peterson to them.
Oh wait.

Marrdro
11-26-2007, 01:07 PM
"V" wrote:


Unfortunately Marr, they will use this line:
"TJ didn't do crap in those games. We won those games because of Peterson."

Nothing TJ does matters until he wins without Peterson to them.
Oh wait.

You my friend, crack me up.
;D

bleedpurple
11-26-2007, 01:09 PM
TJ gives us the best chance to win now....

if he keeps getting better then we will win now... TJ haters back off....

Schutz
11-26-2007, 01:26 PM
"V" wrote:


Unfortunately Marr, they will use this line:
"TJ didn't do crap in those games. We won those games because of Peterson."

Nothing TJ does matters until he wins without Peterson to them.
Oh wait.


So apparently not messing up a game makes you a great QB, I'm not saying T-Jack didn't have a good day, but I stand by the fact we could do better.
Maybe he'll prove me wrong and turn into a good NFL QB but games like this just don't sell me on T-Jack as the "answer" yet.
Our running game didn't look good today, and unless we can count on def TDs like that every single game eventully T-Jack will be put in a position where HE needs to win the game, and that is what I'm interested in seeing him succeed in.
If T-Jack can go out and win a game with his passing abilities as upposed to just not making mistakes, I'll call him the future.
But there are alot of QBs in the NFL who can do the same thing, I want a Vikings QB who can win a game, as upposed to not losing it.

BleedinPandG
11-26-2007, 01:31 PM
"Schutz" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Unfortunately Marr, they will use this line:
"TJ didn't do crap in those games. We won those games because of Peterson."

Nothing TJ does matters until he wins without Peterson to them.
Oh wait.


So apparently not messing up a game makes you a great QB, I'm not saying T-Jack didn't have a good day, but I stand by the fact we could do better.
Maybe he'll prove me wrong and turn into a good NFL QB but games like this just don't sell me on T-Jack as the "answer" yet.
Our running game didn't look good today, and unless we can count on def TDs like that every single game eventully T-Jack will be put in a position where HE needs to win the game, and that is what I'm interested in seeing him succeed in.
If T-Jack can go out and win a game with his passing abilities as upposed to just not making mistakes, I'll call him the future.
But there are alot of QBs in the NFL who can do the same thing, I want a Vikings QB who can win a game, as upposed to not losing it.


How do you think Big Ben and Tom Brady became stars?
You think the Steelers or Patriots won games because of their passing games?
Ummm, no... Ben through less then 20 passes a game in most of the Steelers wins... prior to this year Tom Brady has always been a game "manager" not a gun slinger like Lord Favre or Commercial Happy Manning...

On a run oriented team (which we most definitely are now and for the foreseeable future with our line and RB core), the QBs job is to make a few throws to keep a D somewhat honest, pick up an occasional 3rd down and long, and basically not turn the ball over.
From there the running game is free to do its job which rests the D so they can do theirs.
That's what has been winning Super Bowls.
TJack is capable of that and with his legs he brings a dynamic neither Big Ben nor Brady do.

bleedpurple
11-26-2007, 01:44 PM
"BleedinPandG" wrote:


"Schutz" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Unfortunately Marr, they will use this line:
"TJ didn't do crap in those games. We won those games because of Peterson."

Nothing TJ does matters until he wins without Peterson to them.
Oh wait.


So apparently not messing up a game makes you a great QB, I'm not saying T-Jack didn't have a good day, but I stand by the fact we could do better.
Maybe he'll prove me wrong and turn into a good NFL QB but games like this just don't sell me on T-Jack as the "answer" yet.
Our running game didn't look good today, and unless we can count on def TDs like that every single game eventully T-Jack will be put in a position where HE needs to win the game, and that is what I'm interested in seeing him succeed in.
If T-Jack can go out and win a game with his passing abilities as upposed to just not making mistakes, I'll call him the future.
But there are alot of QBs in the NFL who can do the same thing, I want a Vikings QB who can win a game, as upposed to not losing it.


How do you think Big Ben and Tom Brady became stars?
You think the Steelers or Patriots won games because of their passing games?
Ummm, no... Ben through less then 20 passes a game in most of the Steelers wins... prior to this year Tom Brady has always been a game "manager" not a gun slinger like Lord Favre or Commercial Happy Manning...

On a run oriented team (which we most definitely are now and for the foreseeable future with our line and RB core), the QBs job is to make a few throws to keep a D somewhat honest, pick up an occasional 3rd down and long, and basically not turn the ball over.
From there the running game is free to do its job which rests the D so they can do theirs.
That's what has been winning Super Bowls.
TJack is capable of that and with his legs he brings a dynamic neither Big Ben nor Brady do.


Yeah, but Brady's decision making and pocket awarness if flawless.... Do you see his footwork in the pocket... second to none... and big ben is way better a scrambler than your giving him credit for... understand the point, but you can't compare to those guys.. they're just too good and with Rings...

Prophet
11-26-2007, 02:23 PM
"V" wrote:


Unfortunately Marr, they will use this line:
"TJ didn't do crap in those games. We won those games because of Peterson."

Nothing TJ does matters until he wins without Peterson to them.
Oh wait.


That's the new breed of crotch sniffers, the ADers.
Some will become Vikings fans while others will fall by the wayside if purple jesus rises to the heavens and is never seen again.

mblack76
11-26-2007, 04:14 PM
T-Jack is still a 'work in progress' but check this out.....

-- QB Tarvaris Jackson threw a 60-yard touchdown pass to rookie receiver Sidney Rice on the Vikings' opening possession Sunday at New York, marking his third touchdown pass of 60-plus yards in 2007. The team record is four set by Fran Tarkenton in 1962 and equaled by Tommy Kramer in 1986.
Source: Scout.com (http://gnb.scout.com/2/705491.html)

bleedpurple
11-26-2007, 04:22 PM
"mblack76" wrote:


T-Jack is still a 'work in progress' but check this out.....

-- QB Tarvaris Jackson threw a 60-yard touchdown pass to rookie receiver Sidney Rice on the Vikings' opening possession Sunday at New York, marking his third touchdown pass of 60-plus yards in 2007. The team record is four set by Fran Tarkenton in 1962 and equaled by Tommy Kramer in 1986.
Source: Scout.com (http://gnb.scout.com/2/705491.html)


Too bad he has like 3 td passes this entire year... lol...

NodakPaul
11-26-2007, 04:33 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"mblack76" wrote:


T-Jack is still a 'work in progress' but check this out.....

-- QB Tarvaris Jackson threw a 60-yard touchdown pass to rookie receiver Sidney Rice on the Vikings' opening possession Sunday at New York, marking his third touchdown pass of 60-plus yards in 2007. The team record is four set by Fran Tarkenton in 1962 and equaled by Tommy Kramer in 1986.
Source: Scout.com (http://gnb.scout.com/2/705491.html)


Too bad he has like 3 td passes this entire year... lol...


OK, that's pretty funny.
Every TD pass has been 60+ yards this year!

I went to see where he was ranking on NFL.com, and was surprised to see that he wasn't even listed.
THen I realized that TJ isn't qualified to be ranked with a QB rating, because QB ratings only apply to QBs who throw 14 or more passes per game! :D LMAO.

Not a slam on TJ, but it shows that even the NFL rating system is so skewed toward a pass first offense that they aren't even listing him, even though he played the entire game on Sunday!

Frostbite
11-26-2007, 04:33 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.
take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.





Absolutely right I bleed purple.....The point I was trying to make is this. The entire offense will have to step things up a notch. 13 offensive points will not get it done. I know we were already up and way ahead with the defensive points we had but the defensive points came during the entire game, as should offensive points. I am not a T.Jack non-supporter either....and yes...I saw the game (taped) and already said that T.Jack did a much better job than in previous games. I have a tendancy to be a realist and I don't think a serious playoff run can be expected without better offensive scoring. Especially in the running game....which Chesters 77 yards was a tad weak as well.





Cheers!

V-Unit
11-26-2007, 04:37 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.
take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.





Absolutely right I bleed purple.....The point I was trying to make is this. The entire offense will have to step things up a notch. 13 offensive points will not get it done. I know we were already up and way ahead with the defensive points we had but the defensive points came during the entire game, as should offensive points. I am not a T.Jack non-supporter either....and yes...I saw the game (taped) and already said that T.Jack did a much better job than in previous games. I have a tendancy to be a realist and I don't think a serious playoff run can be expected without better offensive scoring. Especially in the running game....which Chesters 77 yards was a tad weak as well.




Cheers!


Once again, I saw a noticeable difference in our running attack because Richardson didn't play. Anyone else recognize this?

bleedpurple
11-26-2007, 04:38 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.
take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.





Absolutely right I bleed purple.....The point I was trying to make is this. The entire offense will have to step things up a notch. 13 offensive points will not get it done. I know we were already up and way ahead with the defensive points we had but the defensive points came during the entire game, as should offensive points. I am not a T.Jack non-supporter either....and yes...I saw the game (taped) and already said that T.Jack did a much better job than in previous games. I have a tendancy to be a realist and I don't think a serious playoff run can be expected without better offensive scoring. Especially in the running game....which Chesters 77 yards was a tad weak as well.





Cheers!


i feel you.. but the o scored 20 points, and i know your not including the td that Chester scored bc that pick gave us the ball on the 9 but we still scored so you have to count that, bc we could have kicked a FG.. with that said, i don't think that's a good game to gauge the offense since we were up so much in the 2nd half and were just trying to run the clock out..

but you have to like the way he threw the ball, and when the Giants answered on the FG in the 2nd half, we came right back and scored a FG...

so, while agree with you... i think you have to see it for what it was, and when they needed points the offense delivered..

C Mac D
11-26-2007, 04:39 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


"mblack76" wrote:


T-Jack is still a 'work in progress' but check this out.....

-- QB Tarvaris Jackson threw a 60-yard touchdown pass to rookie receiver Sidney Rice on the Vikings' opening possession Sunday at New York, marking his third touchdown pass of 60-plus yards in 2007. The team record is four set by Fran Tarkenton in 1962 and equaled by Tommy Kramer in 1986.
Source: Scout.com (http://gnb.scout.com/2/705491.html)


Too bad he has like 3 td passes this entire year... lol...


OK, that's pretty funny.
Every TD pass has been 60+ yards this year!

I went to see where he was ranking on NFL.com, and was surprised to see that he wasn't even listed.
THen I realized that TJ isn't qualified to be ranked with a QB rating, because QB ratings only apply to QBs who throw 14 or more passes per game! :D LMAO.

Not a slam on TJ, but it shows that even the NFL rating system is so skewed toward a pass first offense that they aren't even listing him, even though he played the entire game on Sunday!


You can still see them if you click "All":

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=FE97A28E3E9D8E72A9F345F548680966?season=2007&archive=false&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&qualified=false&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&experience=null&d-447263-n=1

marstc09
11-26-2007, 04:48 PM
WOW he is tied for 37th in the league for TD passes. Scary. So this thread is called will he ever improve. I think it is safe to say yes because how can you not improve when the season is five games from being over and you only have 3 TD passes.

marstc09
11-26-2007, 04:50 PM
At least he has not been sacked 44 times like Jon Kitna has. We need to put all kinds of pressure on Kitna.

i_bleed_purple
11-26-2007, 04:52 PM
"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.

take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.




I'm not saying he was great, I'm saying he was better than mediocre. Of course there are some areas for improvement, but saying he had a crappy game yesterday is just a lie.

Why does the Sidney TD not count? That makes no sense to me. Analyze his entire game or don't analyze it at all. He made a big play to start the day and give his team an early lead. After that, he played well, completing almost all of his passes and keeping plays alive with his legs. Most importantly, no turnovers.

At least you are willing to give him time to get better.

i wasn't saying the rice td didn't count, all i'm saying is what happens if that pass never happened? that one play accounted for almost half of his total yardage through the air.


I'm not really a TJack hater, but i do criticize him when he makes mistakes.
it is true, that he did move the chains with both his arm and his legs, that is good.
one 1st down however, was the result of him standing in the pocket waaayyy too long and getting the ball punched out of his hands, and luckily Sidney Rice landed on it for a 1st.


what i'm getting at is that he played safe football.
he didn't try to force throws or make dumb mistakes, however he didn't blow me away with his performance.
that would be what i call mediocre.
your vikings bias will automatically make you think TJacks performance was better than it really was, so you kinda have to stand back and try to look at it from another teams eyes.
pretend for a second you weren't a vikigns fan then look at his performance.
10/12 for only 129yds and a td.
not impressive, but not bad, so in other words that would be mediocre.

mabye a good example would be to look at other teams qb's.
take Kyle Boller for example.
against san diego, he went 21/33 for 191 yds and a td.
thats not great, but its not bad, pretty mediocre.
how about Culpepper, 15/22 for 170 yards, no picks in a win?.
pretty mediocre.
mabye bruce bradkowski?
9/19 106 yards but a win..
thats pretty mediocre.

if you think that TJacks performance was better than mediocre than i want to know what you consider mediocre.
does he need to throw a pick? less than 100 yards?
if a qb throws for less than 100 yards and a pick that is just plain bad, its not mediocre.

you may have another meaning for the word mediocre than i do, but to me mediocre would mean
he's doing just enough to get by, nothing special, but nothing bad.

Frostbite
11-26-2007, 04:55 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


At least he has not been sacked 44 times like Jon Kitna has. We need to put all kinds of pressure on Kitna.







We will certainly go after him. It would not surprise me if we get a few more defensive TOs in this game too. Lions will play us tuff as a Division rival. We better not have a let down from the Giants game. I am anxious to see how the team (Especially the Offense) responds this week, now that A.P. will be back and we are playing at home.


Cheers!

V-Unit
11-26-2007, 05:01 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.

take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.




I'm not saying he was great, I'm saying he was better than mediocre. Of course there are some areas for improvement, but saying he had a crappy game yesterday is just a lie.

Why does the Sidney TD not count? That makes no sense to me. Analyze his entire game or don't analyze it at all. He made a big play to start the day and give his team an early lead. After that, he played well, completing almost all of his passes and keeping plays alive with his legs. Most importantly, no turnovers.

At least you are willing to give him time to get better.

i wasn't saying the rice td didn't count, all i'm saying is what happens if that pass never happened? that one play accounted for almost half of his total yardage through the air.



I'm not really a TJack hater, but i do criticize him when he makes mistakes.
it is true, that he did move the chains with both his arm and his legs, that is good.
one 1st down however, was the result of him standing in the pocket waaayyy too long and getting the ball punched out of his hands, and luckily Sidney Rice landed on it for a 1st.


what i'm getting at is that he played safe football.
he didn't try to force throws or make dumb mistakes, however he didn't blow me away with his performance.
that would be what i call mediocre.
your vikings bias will automatically make you think TJacks performance was better than it really was, so you kinda have to stand back and try to look at it from another teams eyes.
pretend for a second you weren't a vikigns fan then look at his performance.
10/12 for only 129yds and a td.
not impressive, but not bad, so in other words that would be mediocre.

mabye a good example would be to look at other teams qb's.
take Kyle Boller for example.
against san diego, he went 21/33 for 191 yds and a td.
thats not great, but its not bad, pretty mediocre.
how about Culpepper, 15/22 for 170 yards, no picks in a win?.
pretty mediocre.
mabye bruce bradkowski?
9/19 106 yards but a win..
thats pretty mediocre.

if you think that TJacks performance was better than mediocre than i want to know what you consider mediocre.
does he need to throw a pick? less than 100 yards?
if a qb throws for less than 100 yards and a pick that is just plain bad, its not mediocre.

you may have another meaning for the word mediocre than i do, but to me mediocre would mean
he's doing just enough to get by, nothing special, but nothing bad.

That is where we differ.

me·di·o·cre
1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.

2. rather poor or inferior.


You use 1, I use 2, so in summary, I'm right and you're wrong.
Seriously though, he was barely better than barely adequate.

i_bleed_purple
11-26-2007, 05:06 PM
then we agree to disagree.
i personally think the definition "of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad" pretty much describes him

bleedpurple
11-26-2007, 05:10 PM
"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:



"V" wrote:


The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.

take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.




I'm not saying he was great, I'm saying he was better than mediocre. Of course there are some areas for improvement, but saying he had a crappy game yesterday is just a lie.

Why does the Sidney TD not count? That makes no sense to me. Analyze his entire game or don't analyze it at all. He made a big play to start the day and give his team an early lead. After that, he played well, completing almost all of his passes and keeping plays alive with his legs. Most importantly, no turnovers.

At least you are willing to give him time to get better.

i wasn't saying the rice td didn't count, all i'm saying is what happens if that pass never happened? that one play accounted for almost half of his total yardage through the air.



I'm not really a TJack hater, but i do criticize him when he makes mistakes.
it is true, that he did move the chains with both his arm and his legs, that is good.
one 1st down however, was the result of him standing in the pocket waaayyy too long and getting the ball punched out of his hands, and luckily Sidney Rice landed on it for a 1st.


what i'm getting at is that he played safe football.
he didn't try to force throws or make dumb mistakes, however he didn't blow me away with his performance.
that would be what i call mediocre.
your vikings bias will automatically make you think TJacks performance was better than it really was, so you kinda have to stand back and try to look at it from another teams eyes.
pretend for a second you weren't a vikigns fan then look at his performance.
10/12 for only 129yds and a td.
not impressive, but not bad, so in other words that would be mediocre.

mabye a good example would be to look at other teams qb's.
take Kyle Boller for example.
against san diego, he went 21/33 for 191 yds and a td.
thats not great, but its not bad, pretty mediocre.
how about Culpepper, 15/22 for 170 yards, no picks in a win?.
pretty mediocre.
mabye bruce bradkowski?
9/19 106 yards but a win..
thats pretty mediocre.

if you think that TJacks performance was better than mediocre than i want to know what you consider mediocre.
does he need to throw a pick? less than 100 yards?
if a qb throws for less than 100 yards and a pick that is just plain bad, its not mediocre.

you may have another meaning for the word mediocre than i do, but to me mediocre would mean
he's doing just enough to get by, nothing special, but nothing bad.

That is where we differ.

me·di·o·cre
1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.

2. rather poor or inferior.


You use 1, I use 2, so in summary, I'm right and you're wrong.
Seriously though, he was barely better than barely adequate.



But he was better than previous weeks and that is marked improvement.. he had his best game as a pro and threw actually 10-11.. with a 139 rating...

Not bad at all.. very efficient..

Hey i know everyone wants to give up on TJ and get a veteran, or draft a QB... because, WAIT, it takes exactly 9 games and 1.6 years of experience as a professional football quarterback to determine whether your the next Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf...

anybody who takes longer than that should be benched or waived... so your right, TJ is a bust and we should draft a QB...

C'mon, give him time.. as long as he's improving then that's all we can ask.. and to improve on today's game would eventually put him in the elite category...

I don't think he was stellar,

nor do i think he was mediocre..

i think he did exactly what Coach asked him to do...

and in doing THAT he was flawless...!!!!

C Mac D
11-26-2007, 05:11 PM
V... I usually like your posts, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here.

He didn't have many chances to pass because we were holding on to a lead. When he was being rushed, he made good plays with both his feet and his arm... even if they were short passes, they kept the clock moving. He didn't have to do much because of the way the team was playing. I think his 60 yard bomb looked absolutely perfect.

I say give the kid a break. He looked good. We won 41-17 over a pretty good Giants team.

He DEFINITELY looked better than Eli.

OnlyVikes
11-26-2007, 05:14 PM
Some people are saying that without the 60 yarder to Rice that he didn't do anything. Ok, but you neglected two things:

1)It's hard for him to rack up stats when he isn't on the field. Dwight Smith had the 93 yard return after a long drive by Manning then 2 plays later Greenway interecepted it for another TD. Which, if I am correct, would put the Vikings defense on the field AGAIN after we kicked the extra point. Not only that, but Chili was obviously trying to use Chester more since he did so well last week...which leads me to my next point which is...

2)Running the ball. If the plays being radioed in are runs, then how is Tarvaris supposed to get passing statistics? Plus, almost all of the 4th quarter Chili was trying to run the ball to run the clock out(eventually).


I think he had a great game and would love to see more of the same Tarvaris we saw in this game. The more he plays, it seems the more awareness, poise, and accuracy(mostly) he has. How can you argue with 5-2 starting record? There must be something to him playing...

i_bleed_purple
11-26-2007, 05:25 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:





The guy had 139.8 passer rating on the day, and almost 40 yards of rushing. How can you call that mediocre?



you can go 1/1 with a td and have a 158.3 passer rating.
does that make you a great qb?
all it means is you had one good throw, which would be the case here.

take away the sidney rice td and you have 9/12 for 69yds which is by no means special.
you have to look at the game, and not just the stats to guage a qb.
some knocks on Tjack from this game that he should improve on:

decisionmaking:
if he's going to run, then run, if not, don't try.
so often he gets flushed from the pocket, will start to run, then stutter like he wants to pass, and end up getting sacked.

getting rid of the ball:
he has absolutely no concept of how long he's back in the pocket.
How often are you used to seeing Tjack sakced or fumbling?? its not because he has small hands like culpepper, its because he stands back in the pocket forever, waving the ball around for someone to punch out.

looking off the safety:
on the long pass to sidney, he looked to the left, then went right.
other times i noticed he locked into one reciever, usually for minimal or no gain.
often he doesn't look to the left at all during pass plays.

if he could fix those things, he could become pretty good, and these all come with time and practise.




I'm not saying he was great, I'm saying he was better than mediocre. Of course there are some areas for improvement, but saying he had a crappy game yesterday is just a lie.

Why does the Sidney TD not count? That makes no sense to me. Analyze his entire game or don't analyze it at all. He made a big play to start the day and give his team an early lead. After that, he played well, completing almost all of his passes and keeping plays alive with his legs. Most importantly, no turnovers.

At least you are willing to give him time to get better.

i wasn't saying the rice td didn't count, all i'm saying is what happens if that pass never happened? that one play accounted for almost half of his total yardage through the air.



I'm not really a TJack hater, but i do criticize him when he makes mistakes.
it is true, that he did move the chains with both his arm and his legs, that is good.
one 1st down however, was the result of him standing in the pocket waaayyy too long and getting the ball punched out of his hands, and luckily Sidney Rice landed on it for a 1st.


what i'm getting at is that he played safe football.
he didn't try to force throws or make dumb mistakes, however he didn't blow me away with his performance.
that would be what i call mediocre.
your vikings bias will automatically make you think TJacks performance was better than it really was, so you kinda have to stand back and try to look at it from another teams eyes.
pretend for a second you weren't a vikigns fan then look at his performance.
10/12 for only 129yds and a td.
not impressive, but not bad, so in other words that would be mediocre.

mabye a good example would be to look at other teams qb's.
take Kyle Boller for example.
against san diego, he went 21/33 for 191 yds and a td.
thats not great, but its not bad, pretty mediocre.
how about Culpepper, 15/22 for 170 yards, no picks in a win?.
pretty mediocre.
mabye bruce bradkowski?
9/19 106 yards but a win..
thats pretty mediocre.

if you think that TJacks performance was better than mediocre than i want to know what you consider mediocre.
does he need to throw a pick? less than 100 yards?
if a qb throws for less than 100 yards and a pick that is just plain bad, its not mediocre.

you may have another meaning for the word mediocre than i do, but to me mediocre would mean
he's doing just enough to get by, nothing special, but nothing bad.

That is where we differ.

me·di·o·cre
1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.

2. rather poor or inferior.


You use 1, I use 2, so in summary, I'm right and you're wrong.
Seriously though, he was barely better than barely adequate.



But he was better than previous weeks and that is marked improvement.. he had his best game as a pro and threw actually 10-11.. with a 139 rating...

Not bad at all.. very efficient..

Hey i know everyone wants to give up on TJ and get a veteran, or draft a QB... because, WAIT, it takes exactly 9 games and 1.6 years of experience as a professional football quarterback to determine whether your the next Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf...

anybody who takes longer than that should be benched or waived... so your right, TJ is a bust and we should draft a QB...

C'mon, give him time.. as long as he's improving then that's all we can ask.. and to improve on today's game would eventually put him in the elite category...

I don't think he was stellar,

nor do i think he was mediocre..

i think he did exactly what Coach asked him to do...

and in doing THAT he was flawless...!!!!


does playing flawless mean waiting in the pocket for an hour, hoping mabye he wont get sacked??
or how about fumbling the football and risking a turnover.
the only reason people aren't on his ass about that is because the vikings recoverd and luckily got a 1st down, if the giants had recovered, it would be a very different story.
most of you are judging him by his previous performance, but that is like calling Kevin Williams a track star because he outran a bunch of linemen and a qb in week 1 when he returned a pick for a td.

if i were to give him a grading, i would give him a B.

Jereamiah
11-26-2007, 05:31 PM
Seems to me that if he could improve his pocket awareness, real improvement would follow. It looks like he sometimes completely forgets that a pass rushing end won't stop just 'cause he gets pushed past the qb. That just means the DE is behind you now and you should act accordingly, like getting the ball out PRONTO! Other then that, I think he did great. I was checking out the giants site, and BOY HOWDY! you should see the lashing Eli is getting. Warms my heart ;D

V-Unit
11-26-2007, 07:22 PM
"C" wrote:


V... I usually like your posts, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here.

He didn't have many chances to pass because we were holding on to a lead. When he was being rushed, he made good plays with both his feet and his arm... even if they were short passes, they kept the clock moving. He didn't have to do much because of the way the team was playing. I think his 60 yard bomb looked absolutely perfect.

I say give the kid a break. He looked good. We won 41-17 over a pretty good Giants team.

He DEFINITELY looked better than Eli.


I think you are confusing me for someone else?
I haven't had a single gripe about TJ's performance.

Austinpowers144
11-26-2007, 09:47 PM
I have never been a fan of tarvaris, and i dont think he is the future quarterback, just my opinion. The problem i have with him right now is that he hasent had to come from behind in any of these games. I would like to see what he does when they need him to take them down the field to win. I just get sick of minnesota having options a some good players available and never going after them. I think that jake plummer or drew bledsoe would have been a pretty good choice, i would have like to of seen jeff george back. I personally dont want to put up with Daunte Jr. for seven or eight more years. We also cant judge these couple games he has played in and put up good numbers, remember Scott Mitchell and Steve Bono, everyone thought they were going to be legends, and they didnt do anything else after that one fluke season.

Mikecarter81
11-26-2007, 10:09 PM
Umm I hear your anti TJ stuff, but it get watered down, so your willing to take a 38 year old guy who hasn't played an ounce of competition in five years and just hand him the keys to the viking offense.
What is your evaluation based on?
I mean when is the last time you saw Jeff George throw a pass.
ou might want to take a moment to think about stuff before posting an idea like that since it does nothing but downgrade your argument.

Mike

PurpleGator
11-26-2007, 10:50 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Umm I hear your anti TJ stuff, but it get watered down, so your willing to take a 38 year old guy who hasn't played an ounce of competition in five years and just hand him the keys to the viking offense.
What is your evaluation based on?
I mean when is the last time you saw Jeff George throw a pass.
ou might want to take a moment to think about stuff before posting an idea like that since it does nothing but downgrade your argument.

Mike


You know what.
We are 5-6 and T-Jack is taking us to the superbowl.


Here we come Pats we are going to take you down.
Tom Brady who?
We have T-Jack all 140 yards in one game whoop whoop!
::)

V4L
11-26-2007, 11:03 PM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Umm I hear your anti TJ stuff, but it get watered down, so your willing to take a 38 year old guy who hasn't played an ounce of competition in five years and just hand him the keys to the viking offense.
What is your evaluation based on?
I mean when is the last time you saw Jeff George throw a pass.
ou might want to take a moment to think about stuff before posting an idea like that since it does nothing but downgrade your argument.

Mike


You know what.
We are 5-6 and T-Jack is taking us to the superbowl.


Here we come Pats we are going to take you down.
Tom Brady who?
We have T-Jack all 140 yards in one game whoop whoop!
::)





No one has said superbowl for us

And T-Jack is 5-2 this year

And 140 yards on 12 passes isn't bad buddy

Quit complaining.. He's learning

PurpleGator
11-26-2007, 11:08 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Umm I hear your anti TJ stuff, but it get watered down, so your willing to take a 38 year old guy who hasn't played an ounce of competition in five years and just hand him the keys to the viking offense.
What is your evaluation based on?
I mean when is the last time you saw Jeff George throw a pass.
ou might want to take a moment to think about stuff before posting an idea like that since it does nothing but downgrade your argument.

Mike


You know what.
We are 5-6 and T-Jack is taking us to the superbowl.


Here we come Pats we are going to take you down.
Tom Brady who?
We have T-Jack all 140 yards in one game whoop whoop!
::)





No one has said superbowl for us

And T-Jack is 5-2 this year

And 140 yards on 12 passes isn't bad buddy

Quit complaining.. He's learning


Man one game does not make you a champion.


Some of you guys will carry anybodys water.
I think some have been listening to Sid way too much.


Just settle down before we start crowning people.
T-Jack is not the future.
Time will prove me right (again).

singersp
11-26-2007, 11:17 PM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Umm I hear your anti TJ stuff, but it get watered down, so your willing to take a 38 year old guy who hasn't played an ounce of competition in five years and just hand him the keys to the viking offense.
What is your evaluation based on?
I mean when is the last time you saw Jeff George throw a pass.
ou might want to take a moment to think about stuff before posting an idea like that since it does nothing but downgrade your argument.

Mike


You know what.
We are 5-6 and T-Jack is taking us to the superbowl.


Here we come Pats we are going to take you down.
Tom Brady who?
We have T-Jack all 140 yards in one game whoop whoop!
::)





No one has said superbowl for us

And T-Jack is 5-2 this year

And 140 yards on 12 passes isn't bad buddy

Quit complaining.. He's learning


Man one game does not make you a champion.


Some of you guys will carry anybodys water.
I think some have been listening to Sid way too much.


Just settle down before we start crowning people.
T-Jack is not the future.
Time will prove me right (again).




Again? When did time prove you right before?

VikingsMB
11-26-2007, 11:26 PM
At this point, with 5 wins, a good draft pick is gone.
May as well go for the playoff run.
Tjack has looked OK over the past couple of games.
If the kid gets us 9 wins, I'll change my tune.

ultravikingfan
11-26-2007, 11:40 PM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Umm I hear your anti TJ stuff, but it get watered down, so your willing to take a 38 year old guy who hasn't played an ounce of competition in five years and just hand him the keys to the viking offense.
What is your evaluation based on?
I mean when is the last time you saw Jeff George throw a pass.
ou might want to take a moment to think about stuff before posting an idea like that since it does nothing but downgrade your argument.

Mike


You know what.
We are 5-6 and T-Jack is taking us to the superbowl.


Here we come Pats we are going to take you down.
Tom Brady who?
We have T-Jack all 140 yards in one game whoop whoop!
::)





No one has said superbowl for us

And T-Jack is 5-2 this year

And 140 yards on 12 passes isn't bad buddy

Quit complaining.. He's learning


Man one game does not make you a champion.


Some of you guys will carry anybodys water.
I think some have been listening to Sid way too much.


Just settle down before we start crowning people.
T-Jack is not the future.
Time will prove me right (again).




Nobody has crowned him anything.
All people are saying is the he has improved a little.
You are going way overboard here with this super Bowl talk and you don't even make any sense at all.

Braddock
11-26-2007, 11:45 PM
He didn't wait in the pocket as long as you think. as evidence of the video posted. geez.... dumb x infinity+1

Austinpowers144
11-26-2007, 11:53 PM
Its pretty easy to have a 70 to an 80 percent completion rate when all your throwing is short passes to recievers and screen passes, and by the way that deep ball he threw on the first play was under thrown. Lets see what tarvaris does when he has to move the ball without the help of adrian and the defense scoring all the points.

Braddock
11-26-2007, 11:58 PM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


Its pretty easy to have a 70 to an 80 percent completion rate when all your throwing is short passes to recievers and screen passes, and by the way that deep ball he threw on the first play was under thrown. Lets see what tarvaris does when he has to move the ball without the help of adrian and the defense scoring all the points.


Yeah, b/c rice got pushed forward and caught the ball..... equals not under thrown. AD hasn't played the last 2 games and our offense scored 20 pts against a good giants D...
so you have your answers. dumb x infinity+1

The Dropper
11-27-2007, 12:00 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Umm I hear your anti TJ stuff, but it get watered down, so your willing to take a 38 year old guy who hasn't played an ounce of competition in five years and just hand him the keys to the viking offense.
What is your evaluation based on?
I mean when is the last time you saw Jeff George throw a pass.
ou might want to take a moment to think about stuff before posting an idea like that since it does nothing but downgrade your argument.

Mike


You know what.
We are 5-6 and T-Jack is taking us to the superbowl.


Here we come Pats we are going to take you down.
Tom Brady who?
We have T-Jack all 140 yards in one game whoop whoop!
::)





No one has said superbowl for us

And T-Jack is 5-2 this year

And 140 yards on 12 passes isn't bad buddy

Quit complaining.. He's learning


Man one game does not make you a champion.


Some of you guys will carry anybodys water.
I think some have been listening to Sid way too much.


Just settle down before we start crowning people.
T-Jack is not the future.
Time will prove me right (again).




Again? When did time prove you right before?


LMAO. "History will absolve me."
http://home.wlu.edu/~barnettj/lit295/castro.jpg

Austinpowers144
11-27-2007, 12:14 AM
My problem is what do you guys seriously see in him? Do you really see a great quarterback, someone who could take minnesota to the super bowl and win? And on that long pass, i just thought when a reciever has to slow down and turn around to catch the ball, now i may be wrong, but i dont think i am in this case, thats called an underthrown ball, isnt the ball supposed to be thrown out over the reciever??? In front of him??? Heck, maybe im wrong, but i dont think so.

Mikecarter81
11-27-2007, 12:29 AM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


My problem is what do you guys seriously see in him? Do you really see a great quarterback, someone who could take minnesota to the super bowl and win? And on that long pass, i just thought when a reciever has to slow down and turn around to catch the ball, now i may be wrong, but i dont think i am in this case, thats called an underthrown ball, isnt the ball supposed to be thrown out over the reciever??? In front of him??? Heck, maybe im wrong, but i dont think so.


Nope you answer my question about Jeff George before you get any answers.
You come in here bagging on T jack, fanning the flames for a guy who hasn't played in half a decade?
Why, what great insight do you have about George that we don't have?
I want you to defend your point bout George, then bash T jack for all its worth until then, get a better argument.

Mike

sdfrenchy
11-27-2007, 12:32 AM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


My problem is what do you guys seriously see in him? Do you really see a great quarterback, someone who could take minnesota to the super bowl and win? And on that long pass, i just thought when a reciever has to slow down and turn around to catch the ball, now i may be wrong, but i dont think i am in this case, thats called an underthrown ball, isnt the ball supposed to be thrown out over the reciever??? In front of him??? Heck, maybe im wrong, but i dont think so.

What I see is a young, raw, quarterback who is making improvement. He reminds me a little bit of Vince Young, their stats suck but they're winners. You can't argue with 5-2 as a starter. Except for TWill, all of his recievers this year are new to the system. Wade, Rice, Allison, Shiancoe- it's their first year playing together. Think about it.

Mikecarter81
11-27-2007, 12:37 AM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Umm I hear your anti TJ stuff, but it get watered down, so your willing to take a 38 year old guy who hasn't played an ounce of competition in five years and just hand him the keys to the viking offense.
What is your evaluation based on?
I mean when is the last time you saw Jeff George throw a pass.
ou might want to take a moment to think about stuff before posting an idea like that since it does nothing but downgrade your argument.

Mike


You know what.
We are 5-6 and T-Jack is taking us to the superbowl.


Here we come Pats we are going to take you down.
Tom Brady who?
We have T-Jack all 140 yards in one game whoop whoop!
::)







ummm Gator,Back up take a right at the next door, see that....its called REALITY!!!
Please come back we miss you!

Mike

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
11-27-2007, 12:40 AM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


Its pretty easy to have a 70 to an 80 percent completion rate when all your throwing is short passes to recievers and screen passes, and by the way that deep ball he threw on the first play was under thrown. Lets see what tarvaris does when he has to move the ball without the help of adrian and the defense scoring all the points.


3 posts and your already smarter then most on here. Thats a very valid point. I think he did decently ok but you take away that under thrown deep ball to Rice and you end up with 9/12 and 67 yards 0 TDs. Not quite as good. But he got it and now guys are crowning him. I'm really not trying to say he played bad but all your points are debatable.
Im really just saying that I'm not convinced. I think he did ok but he's didn't look like the next Johnny U. He looked ok. No interception in twelve passes oh he's awesome
::)
This proves nothing. It doesn't help the argument that he's going to be one of the best and taking us to a super bowl nor does it help the argument that he's crap.


Im really just agitated at your main point. "Hey he did great. He had no turnovers." Well he did fumble and it's pretty easy to not throw a pick when you decide to only throw the ball 12 times. I don't like crowning him for no turnovers if its 12 throws. Come on. At least be realistic.

The deep pass was under thrown. No getting past that.


I not trying to say Jacksons crap or is not going to be anything but just giving you guys a little reality check.

Mikecarter81
11-27-2007, 12:50 AM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


"Austinpowers144" wrote:


Its pretty easy to have a 70 to an 80 percent completion rate when all your throwing is short passes to recievers and screen passes, and by the way that deep ball he threw on the first play was under thrown. Lets see what tarvaris does when he has to move the ball without the help of adrian and the defense scoring all the points.


3 posts and your already smarter then most on here. Thats a very valid point. I think he did decently ok but you take away that under thrown deep ball to Rice and you end up with 9/12 and 67 yards 0 TDs. Not quite as good. But he got it and now guys are crowning him. I'm really not trying to say he played bad but all your points are debatable.
Im really just saying that I'm not convinced. I think he did ok but he's didn't look like the next Johnny U. He looked ok. No interception in twelve passes oh he's awesome
::)
This proves nothing. It doesn't help the argument that he's going to be one of the best and taking us to a super bowl nor does it help the argument that he's crap.



Im really just agitated at your main point. "Hey he did great. He had no turnovers." Well he did fumble and it's pretty easy to not throw a pick when you decide to only throw the ball 12 times. I don't like crowning him for no turnovers if its 12 throws. Come on. At least be realistic.


The deep pass was under thrown. No getting past that.


I not trying to say Jacksons crap or is not going to be anything but just giving you guys a little reality check.




ROFL
I've never seen someone read more bull into other people's statements as you have for sure.
Show me where anyone in this topic says he played awesome.
I'll save you time!
Not once, how about you show your fellow posters enough respect and research your points.
Here is what I see the majority of people saying "Hey things maybe are turning around, maybe he is starting to develop."
Not one person has supports him has said he playecd awesome, just serviceable.

Mike


P.S.
Austin I'm still waiting for your brilliant answer too!

happy camper
11-27-2007, 01:20 AM
Jackson played well. I do not see why it is so f'n hard for some to just say that.

No, people have to come up with, "He threw screens and short passes". Look, he played well. Admitting that does not mean you are no longer apart of the official We Hate Tarvaris Jackson Club.

You can continue to doubt all you want (like myself) but just please call it like it happened and don't come up with all these nitpicky reasons as to why it was not a good game.

ultravikingfan
11-27-2007, 01:58 AM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


My problem is what do you guys seriously see in him? Do you really see a great quarterback, someone who could take minnesota to the super bowl and win? And on that long pass, i just thought when a reciever has to slow down and turn around to catch the ball, now i may be wrong, but i dont think i am in this case, thats called an underthrown ball, isnt the ball supposed to be thrown out over the reciever??? In front of him??? Heck, maybe im wrong, but i dont think so.


Who said he is going to be great?

Let me set people straight, this thread is about his "improvement" and he did improve this past game.
For all of you who expect big numbers in order to see improvement you may want to learn a few things about football.


Where did anybody mention him taking us to the Super Bowl?
Please show me.

QB does underthrow balls...it happens.
But did he underthrow it so much it was picked?
No.


In the oast I have been as hard on TJ as the rest of you (you can go back and check).
I also do not think he will be a NFL QB for long.
HOWEVER, I did see improvement in his game.

ultravikingfan
11-27-2007, 02:04 AM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


Its pretty easy to have a 70 to an 80 percent completion rate when all your throwing is short passes to recievers and screen passes, and by the way that deep ball he threw on the first play was under thrown. Lets see what tarvaris does when he has to move the ball without the help of adrian and the defense scoring all the points.


Its a mute point.
Maybe all he has to do is not turn the ball over and manage a good game.
It has been done in the past with teams and some of those teams won Super Bowls.
Now do not misquote me and think I am saying he is going to lead us to a Super Bowl, he is not.
But you do not need a Manning or Brady in order to win.


BTW, the defense did not score all the points.

bleedpurple
11-27-2007, 12:37 PM
People bashing practically a 2nd year QB is ridiculous...


I don't care who it is, Brady, Manning, Favre.. etc.. it takes time.. why don't yall understand that!!

Who in the history of the game, other than Marino was a probowl QB after 9 starts??

Answer: there probably isnt' one!!!


Bash all you want, all people are saying is that give the dude a freakin chance and see what he does... it's still waaaay to early to tell....

Oh, he plays 9 games, and he sucks, so he must be a bust!!!

good thing yall aren't GM's... your franchise would be equivalent of the 2007 dolphins, winless bucs or some bottom feeder...

It's just ridiculous!!!

Austinpowers144
11-27-2007, 03:30 PM
I just get pissed at the vikes when they dont pick up quality players when they have the chance to. They always seem to get rid of the good and keep the bad, thats how they have been for the last few years. I guess i just dont see a quality player in tarvaris, maybe it will happen, i just dont see it. I would like to see them pick up a quality veteren in the offseason, if one is available.

ultravikingfan
11-27-2007, 03:37 PM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


I just get pissed at the vikes when they dont pick up quality players when they have the chance to. They always seem to get rid of the good and keep the bad, thats how they have been for the last few years. I guess i just dont see a quality player in tarvaris, maybe it will happen, i just dont see it. I would like to see them pick up a quality veteren in the offseason, if one is available.


The draft is a gamble.
You win some and you lose some.

Where does getting rid of the good and keeping the bad tie in with Jackson?

1800CULPEPPER
11-27-2007, 03:39 PM
I am happy to see him in there instead of Brad Johnson. I don't get as pi$$ed at TJack as I used to BJ. I think we could add a few WRs that can catch, maybe he will be better. I will give him another year before I will jump on the get rid of TJack bandwagon.

Marrdro
11-27-2007, 03:40 PM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


I just get pissed at the vikes when they dont pick up quality players when they have the chance to. They always seem to get rid of the good and keep the bad, thats how they have been for the last few years. I guess i just dont see a quality player in tarvaris, maybe it will happen, i just dont see it. I would like to see them pick up a quality veteren in the offseason, if one is available.

I've watched this with mild interest and have stayed pretty much out of this, however, I have one question (with a follow-on question) that I always pose in this instance......

What player should they have brought in and who would have you left off the current roster?

Austinpowers144
11-27-2007, 03:49 PM
I would have brought in Plummer or Bledsoe, I know Bledsoe said retirement, but they sometimes come out if they get a good offer. When i was talking about getting rid of the good i got off subject, didnt mean to. What i ment by that was when cunningham was at the end of his carrer and they keep him and cut a young johnson, then cut George for Culpepper, and got rid of Bouman and Ferotte who i thought played well for minnesota.

Marrdro
11-27-2007, 03:52 PM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


I would have brought in Plummer or Bledsoe, I know Bledsoe said retirement, but they sometimes come out if they get a good offer. When i was talking about getting rid of the good i got off subject, didnt mean to. What i ment by that was when cunningham was at the end of his carrer and they keep him and cut a young johnson, then cut George for Culpepper, and got rid of Bouman and Ferotte who i thought played well for minnesota.

I think both of them retired.

If one of them were somehow brought in would you have kept BB or KH?

Austinpowers144
11-27-2007, 03:58 PM
You know i never thought that Brooks ever played that bad. I think that green bay is just a powerhouse team and thats why his stats werent that great.

bleedpurple
11-27-2007, 04:03 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Austinpowers144" wrote:


I would have brought in Plummer or Bledsoe, I know Bledsoe said retirement, but they sometimes come out if they get a good offer. When i was talking about getting rid of the good i got off subject, didnt mean to. What i ment by that was when cunningham was at the end of his carrer and they keep him and cut a young johnson, then cut George for Culpepper, and got rid of Bouman and Ferotte who i thought played well for minnesota.

I think both of them retired.

If one of them were somehow brought in would you have kept BB or KH?


If we brought in one of them, we wouldn't have traded for KH..

I personally, would have gone after Stallworth (3yr deal).. Garcia (3yr deal) and Simeon Rice (1 yr with huge incentives due to attitude and play)...

But overall, I think Stalworth(high risk due to injuries/drops - high reward pick-up) would have been a good pick-up, after that.. i'm not mad they didn't go after anyone else particularly... it was a weak FA class....


Can you imagine a guy like Stallworth opening up the field for AP and CT.... scary!!!!

Austinpowers144
11-27-2007, 04:10 PM
Garcia would have been a good pick up too. Yea, there wasent much to offer in the free agency this year. Cant wait to see adrian back in the line up.

Prophet
11-27-2007, 05:44 PM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


You know i never thought that Brooks ever played that bad. I think that green bay is just a powerhouse team and thats why his stats werent that great.


Brooks is a hack, I've seen him play too many games.
I would take a guy with potential, like TJack, any day over Brooks.

wierstom
11-27-2007, 05:48 PM
tjack is 5-2 as starter half of his incompletes were crappy wideouts dropping the ball give him a good wideout and he will be fine

Purple Floyd
11-27-2007, 05:54 PM
"wierstom" wrote:


tjack is 5-2 as starter half of his incompletes were crappy wideouts dropping the ball give him a good wideout and he will be fine


And half of his incompletions were because he made a bad throw ;)

tastywaves
11-27-2007, 05:56 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"Austinpowers144" wrote:


You know i never thought that Brooks ever played that bad. I think that green bay is just a powerhouse team and thats why his stats werent that great.


Brooks is a hack, I've seen him play too many games.
I would take a guy with potential, like TJack, any day over Brooks.


Agreed, we know that Brooks and Holcombe are not starting material.
TJ is unknown and the sooner we find out about him the better.
Hopefully he can stay healthy for the rest of the season.
I would like to believe that TJ can be a long term starter for us, but I am concerned that we will go into next season with the same 3 guys at QB and we still won't know if TJ is going to be the answer.

wierstom
11-27-2007, 06:01 PM
ya know a qb needs to have confidents in his widouts the only guy i think tjack real has any is sidney rice so he does make some bad throws so did most of the qbs in canton when they were tjacks age give him some good widouts and then judge him

C Mac D
11-27-2007, 06:02 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"wierstom" wrote:


tjack is 5-2 as starter half of his incompletes were crappy wideouts dropping the ball give him a good wideout and he will be fine


And half of his incompletions were because he made a bad throw ;)


But by saying that... you are saying out of his 66 incompletions this year... half (33) are his fault... so, therefore 33 are not his fault. That means the 78 completions he already has MUST be because of good passes... Therefor, 111/144 (77% on target) were good passes... I like that ratio.

wierstom
11-27-2007, 06:05 PM
he isnt perfect but all the qb,s inshrined in canton werent atfirst either give him some good wideouts and he will be better

Prophet
11-27-2007, 06:07 PM
"tastywaves" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"Austinpowers144" wrote:


You know i never thought that Brooks ever played that bad. I think that green bay is just a powerhouse team and thats why his stats werent that great.


Brooks is a hack, I've seen him play too many games.
I would take a guy with potential, like TJack, any day over Brooks.


Agreed, we know that Brooks and Holcombe are not starting material.
TJ is unknown and the sooner we find out about him the better.
Hopefully he can stay healthy for the rest of the season.
I would like to believe that TJ can be a long term starter for us, but I am concerned that we will go into next season with the same 3 guys at QB and we still won't know if TJ is going to be the answer.


I was talking about Aaron Brooks, but, yes, I agree Bollinger is also a hack.
TJack will be the messiah like some predicted.

Marrdro
11-27-2007, 06:15 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Austinpowers144" wrote:


I would have brought in Plummer or Bledsoe, I know Bledsoe said retirement, but they sometimes come out if they get a good offer. When i was talking about getting rid of the good i got off subject, didnt mean to. What i ment by that was when cunningham was at the end of his carrer and they keep him and cut a young johnson, then cut George for Culpepper, and got rid of Bouman and Ferotte who i thought played well for minnesota.

I think both of them retired.

If one of them were somehow brought in would you have kept BB or KH?


If we brought in one of them, we wouldn't have traded for KH..

I personally, would have gone after Stallworth (3yr deal).. Garcia (3yr deal) and Simeon Rice (1 yr with huge incentives due to attitude and play)...

But overall, I think Stalworth(high risk due to injuries/drops - high reward pick-up) would have been a good pick-up, after that.. i'm not mad they didn't go after anyone else particularly... it was a weak FA class....


Can you imagine a guy like Stallworth opening up the field for AP and CT.... scary!!!!


I liked the idea of Garcia, however, he sure wasn't on the market long.

Rice was a definately a no go for me as I believed he just didn't have it anymore.

As for Stalworth, I was one of the guys who thought he might have lost a bit, however, 563 yds and
9 TD's isn't to bad especially when he is competing with that crowd of WR's for balls.

I don't howvever think he would get those numbers here this year.
Lets see what next year brings with respect to QB production and who is available during FA this year.

Prophet
11-27-2007, 06:19 PM
Stallworth is another dime-a-dozen WR.
There will be others available.

C Mac D
11-27-2007, 06:21 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Rice was a definately a no go for me as I believed he just didn't have it anymore.


Apparently the Broncos agreed with you. I didn't want anything to do with Rice either, especially after Robison's preseason.

"Marrdro" wrote:


As for Stalworth, I was one of the guys who thought he might have lost a bit, however, 563 yds and
9 TD's isn't to bad especially when he is competing with that crowd of WR's for balls.


Now... this is someone I felt we NEEDED. I still think he is one of the better receivers in the league. Being on the same team with Moss and Welker will decrease your numbers a bit. I feel like he'd have more than 563 yrds if he played on a different team.

Frostbite
11-27-2007, 06:32 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"wierstom" wrote:


tjack is 5-2 as starter half of his incompletes were crappy wideouts dropping the ball give him a good wideout and he will be fine


And half of his incompletions were because he made a bad throw ;)





Yep....That's true. I will admit that He looked better (Did a better Job this week) but overall I am still not impressed with him. Here are my reasons why:

1. Durability (I want to see how he holds up over the course of the rest of the season) He had some issues early on so I want to see how he does with a few more big hits on sacks or on scrambles.

2. Awarness (Often does not seem to know how long he has to make a play from the pocket, or what to do to avoid the fumble or throw the hurried INT. (Experience could solve some of this...the question is how long will it take him to learn?? Depends on the individual involved....like with all of us.

3. Leadership (Will it develop in T.Jack to where the entire Offense shows they believe in his ability) Have not see that happen fully yet....but again might take a few seasons for that kind of trust in his ability to happen)

4. Type of Style: Personal issue with me. I have never liked the run for my life style of QB play...even when Fran T was playing. In my opinion Fran got lucky not to have sustained more injuries and to have lasted as long as he did, being the scrambler he was.
The biggest reason I don't care for it is because the odds of serious injury and shorter careers increases greatly with QBs that run out of the Pocket a lot. They become "marked" men and usually start to take a lot of damaging hits. Eventually those take there toll....ie Culpepper (And he was huge) Vick....Steve Young...Byron Leftwich...Trent Green.
All of them eventually lost a lot of there ability and effectiveness from injuries sustained as runners out of the pocket. I am wondering how long Vince Young will last in the League and maintain his high level of skill...being he runs so much??
It is nice to be able to run when necessary but T'Jack should only do so when need determines there's a real opening and or need dictates he should. ie avoid a sack..pick up a short fisrt down. Etc.

5. Actual Ability (Growth in passing touch and being able to make reads to check down recievers and backs accurately. Reading defenses and making correct audibles on the line. making mid range and deep throws accurately. Knowing when to simply throw the ball away when nothing is there. Learning not to stare down the reciever you intend to throw to.)
Again...a lot of this talent could come in time. How long should it take/Do you want to wait??

Overall....I will give the kid a lot of credit for facing a very good Giants defense...especially up front (Even though they were short one of there best pass rushers.) It was a good learning experience for T.jack and he held up pretty well. Didn't hurt us with fumbles or forced throws for picks. He could become a good QB but I personally do not see him becoming a Franchise player....That's just gut from what he's doing right now and from seeing so many QBs that have made it big and have not for comparisons. I hope the Kid proves me wrong.

Cheers!

Marrdro
11-27-2007, 06:39 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"wierstom" wrote:


tjack is 5-2 as starter half of his incompletes were crappy wideouts dropping the ball give him a good wideout and he will be fine


And half of his incompletions were because he made a bad throw ;)





Yep....That's true. I will admit that He looked better (Did a better Job this week) but overall I am still not impressed with him. Here are my reasons why:

1. Durability (I want to see how he holds up over the course of the rest of the season) He had some issues early on so I want to see how he does with a few more big hits on sacks or on scrambles.

2. Awarness (Often does not seem to know how long he has to make a play from the pocket, or what to do to avoid the fumble or throw the hurried INT. (Experience could solve some of this...the question is how long will it take him to learn?? Depends on the individual involved....like with all of us.

3. Leadership (Will it develop in T.Jack to where the entire Offense shows they believe in his ability) Have not see that happen fully yet....but again might take a few seasons for that kind of trust in his ability to happen)

4. Type of Style: Personal issue with me. I have never liked the run for my life style of QB play...even when Fran T was playing. In my opinion Fran got lucky not to have sustained more injuries and to have lasted as long as he did, being the scrambler he was.
The biggest reason I don't care for it is because the odds of serious injury and shorter careers increases greatly with QBs that run out of the Pocket a lot. They become "marked" men and usually start to take a lot of damaging hits. Eventually those take there toll....ie Culpepper (And he was huge) Vick....Steve Young...Byron Leftwich...Trent Green.
All of them eventually lost a lot of there ability and effectiveness from injuries sustained as runners out of the pocket. I am wondering how long Vince Young will last in the League and maintain his high level of skill...being he runs so much??
It is nice to be able to run when necessary but T'Jack should only do so when need determines there's a real opening and or need dictates he should. ie avoid a sack..pick up a short fisrt down. Etc.

5. Actual Ability (Growth in passing touch and being able to make reads to check down recievers and backs accurately. Reading defenses and making correct audibles on the line. making mid range and deep throws accurately. Knowing when to simply throw the ball away when nothing is there. Learning not to stare down the reciever you intend to throw to.)
Again...a lot of this talent could come in time. How long should it take/Do you want to wait??

Overall....I will give the kid a lot of credit for facing a very good Giants defense...especially up front (Even though they were short one of there best pass rushers.) It was a good learning experience for T.jack and he held up pretty well. Didn't hurt us with fumbles or forced throws for picks. He could become a good QB but I personally do not see him becoming a Franchise player....That's just gut from what he's doing right now and from seeing so many QBs that have made it big and have not for comparisons. I hope the Kid proves me wrong.

Cheers!

Frostbit, that is one of the best crafted posts I've seen today and for a while for that matter.

I liked the way you gave your opinion against as well as a bit of a ray of hope for the opposite opinion.

Very nice my friend.

By the way, I don't think he will ever be a franchise player either, however, I don't think he needs to be.
He just needs to be good enough not to loose us games as well as to lead a comeback with the help of the other 10 guys on the field.
I think he can grow into that.

What concerns me the most is, as you noted, his perception (at least in my eyes) of being a bit injury prone.

Again, very nice post my friend.
;D

wierstom
11-27-2007, 06:41 PM
yes but dont u thinkl he would be better with some good wideouts

Marrdro
11-27-2007, 06:45 PM
"wierstom" wrote:


yes but dont u thinkl he would be better with some good wideouts

Call me silly, most do, but I still contend that what we have, plus 1 Vet next year is more than enough to make this a very dangerous offense.

Vet WR X
T-will
B-wade
Rice
Allison (still a question but think he could contribute if he ever got the chance)
Draft Prospect X 2008 Class

Rationale is that we will have solidified/solved our pass rush issues by the end of the year, TJ (if the game keeps slowing down this year) or a Vet QB next year along with a outstanding rushing threat will be a formidable offense.

Again, through my eyes.
;D

Frostbite
11-27-2007, 06:53 PM
Thanks Marrdro..I have been learning from some of the best around here like yourself!


Cheers!

happy camper
11-27-2007, 06:58 PM
1. Veteran Free Agent WR
2. Rice (could be a #1 type rec himself)
3. Slot receiver Bobby Wade
4. Troy Williamson/Allison/Draft Prospect

That would be awesome! But I think we definitely need a #1 or #2 type WR in trade or FA next offseason. So we can put Wade in his slot position and use Rice often.

BTW: Memo to coaching staff: USE RICE MORE

gabe_menendez
11-27-2007, 07:05 PM
Yes good point. T jack just needs time like everybodey said, hes already improving as a second year. Just imagine if we was improved to be are franchise qb...He is fast, to scramble out of the pocket, he has a good arm, got young wr's that can be great in the lg. Did i mention hes fast? We are a young team, I love it. That means more years for them all to grow as a team, a family, a band of brothers.

vikesfargo
11-27-2007, 08:09 PM
Will TJack ever improve?

Yes, he already has since this thread was posted. Having lost that argument, the naysayers now say he'll never be good enough in their eyes. Well, please stop shifting the goal posts. Just tell us exactly what you expect out of TJack and when you expect it. Then we'll sit back and see what happens.

Garland Greene
11-27-2007, 08:22 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"wierstom" wrote:


yes but dont u thinkl he would be better with some good wideouts

Call me silly, most do, but I still contend that what we have, plus 1 Vet next year is more than enough to make this a very dangerous offense.

Vet WR X
T-will
B-wade
Rice
Allison (still a question but think he could contribute if he ever got the chance)
Draft Prospect X 2008 Class

Rationale is that we will have solidified/solved our pass rush issues by the end of the year, TJ (if the game keeps slowing down this year) or a Vet QB next year along with a outstanding rushing threat will be a formidable offense.

Again, through my eyes.

;D


Never bought into the whole WR will make a QB better. McNabb especially before TO, Garrad this year. Brady before this year never really had a great WR corp. Rivers last year. How many great WR have you seen go to another team and then dissapear because of lack of a good QB?

*cough* Randy Moss *cough*

BleedinPandG
11-27-2007, 08:26 PM
"happy" wrote:


1. Veteran Free Agent WR
2. Rice (could be a #1 type rec himself)
3. Slot receiver Bobby Wade
4. Troy Williamson/Allison/Draft Prospect

That would be awesome! But I think we definitely need a #1 or #2 type WR in trade or FA next offseason. So we can put Wade in his slot position and use Rice often.

BTW: Memo to coaching staff: USE RICE MORE


Personally, I'd rather see more 2 TE and 2 RB sets... let AD run out to the slot and have a LB or safety try to cover him.
The Vikings are NOT going to be a Pass team for the next several years... we are a run team.

Austinpowers144
11-27-2007, 08:51 PM
There has been some talk about some of the veteren qb's out there that may be available in the offseason. The two people talked about were Warner and Kerry Collins. Do you guys think they would be a good fit in minnesota?

PurpleGator
11-27-2007, 08:56 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"PurpleGator" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Umm I hear your anti TJ stuff, but it get watered down, so your willing to take a 38 year old guy who hasn't played an ounce of competition in five years and just hand him the keys to the viking offense.
What is your evaluation based on?
I mean when is the last time you saw Jeff George throw a pass.
ou might want to take a moment to think about stuff before posting an idea like that since it does nothing but downgrade your argument.

Mike


You know what.
We are 5-6 and T-Jack is taking us to the superbowl.


Here we come Pats we are going to take you down.
Tom Brady who?
We have T-Jack all 140 yards in one game whoop whoop!
::)





No one has said superbowl for us

And T-Jack is 5-2 this year

And 140 yards on 12 passes isn't bad buddy

Quit complaining.. He's learning


Man one game does not make you a champion.


Some of you guys will carry anybodys water.
I think some have been listening to Sid way too much.


Just settle down before we start crowning people.
T-Jack is not the future.
Time will prove me right (again).




Again? When did time prove you right before?


When did time prove me right?


3 Rings baby!
I think I remember some of you hating the Gator!
3 Rings thats all I will say.

ultravikingfan
11-27-2007, 08:58 PM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


There has been some talk about some of the veteren qb's out there that may be available in the offseason. The two people talked about were Warner and Kerry Collins. Do you guys think they would be a good fit in minnesota?


Your bitching about TJ and you ask if Collins is a good fit?

LMAO!

PurpleGator
11-27-2007, 08:59 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Austinpowers144" wrote:


I just get pissed at the vikes when they dont pick up quality players when they have the chance to. They always seem to get rid of the good and keep the bad, thats how they have been for the last few years. I guess i just dont see a quality player in tarvaris, maybe it will happen, i just dont see it. I would like to see them pick up a quality veteren in the offseason, if one is available.


The draft is a gamble.
You win some and you lose some.

Where does getting rid of the good and keeping the bad tie in with Jackson?


The draft is a gamble but you don't trade up when the guy is projected in the 4th round.


Go Gators!

jkjuggalo
11-27-2007, 09:09 PM
Yeah, better pass protection and some dangerous weapons around him will do wonders for our young QB.
I like picking up either Berrian or Bryant Johnson in the offseason plus spending a first day pick on WR.


This is a WR heavy draft and we should have the option to draft a good one in either the 1st or 2nd round.
I'm liking another big receiver like Malcolm Kelly from OU in the 1st or Limas Sweed from Texas in the 2nd.
Keep Wade and Allison inside and cut TWill unless he plays lights out the rest of the season.
Then we draft a TE in the 3rd like Jacob Tamme from Kentucky (runs a 4.5 at 245) or Martellus Bennett (the next Gates) from Texas A&M.
That leaves us with:

Wide receiver:
Sidney Rice
B. Johnson or B. Berrian
Bobby Wade
Aundrae Allison
Limas Sweed or Malcolm Kelly

Tight End:
V. Shiancoe
Tamme or Bennett
Dugan (sorry Sauce, you are a cap casualty and we need somebody to catch it too :-[)


What do you guys think?

Austinpowers144
11-27-2007, 09:13 PM
You really think Collins is worse than Jackson?

PurpleGator
11-27-2007, 09:27 PM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


You really think Collins is worse than Jackson?


No.
I think Leaf is better than Jackson...LOL

Purple Floyd
11-27-2007, 09:33 PM
"PurpleGator" wrote:


"Austinpowers144" wrote:


You really think Collins is worse than Jackson?


No.
I think Leaf is better than Jackson...LOL


???

Garland Greene
11-27-2007, 09:38 PM
"jkjuggalo" wrote:


Yeah, better pass protection and some dangerous weapons around him will do wonders for our young QB.
I like picking up either Berrian or Bryant Johnson in the offseason plus spending a first day pick on WR.


This is a WR heavy draft and we should have the option to draft a good one in either the 1st or 2nd round.
I'm liking another big receiver like Malcolm Kelly from OU in the 1st or Limas Sweed from Texas in the 2nd.
Keep Wade and Allison inside and cut TWill unless he plays lights out the rest of the season.
Then we draft a TE in the 3rd like Jacob Tamme from Kentucky (runs a 4.5 at 245) or Martellus Bennett (the next Gates) from Texas A&M.
That leaves us with:

Wide receiver:
Sidney Rice
B. Johnson or B. Berrian
Bobby Wade
Aundrae Allison
Limas Sweed or Malcolm Kelly

Tight End:
V. Shiancoe
Tamme or Bennett
Dugan (sorry Sauce, you are a cap casualty and we need somebody to catch it too :-[)


What do you guys think?


Add Crayton on to that list. Don't see him coming but is also available. Jimmy K is probably the best blocking TE of the group. He is solid catching the ball whenneeded but is more of an assest in the blocking schemes than anyone else. IMO

Austinpowers144
11-27-2007, 09:42 PM
Last time i checked, Collins put up some good numbers in his career and went to a super bowl.

Mr Anderson
11-27-2007, 10:53 PM
I'm still not entirely sold on TJack, I like what I saw sunday though.

I was really arguing against him with someone in the Yell, It may have been BleedinPandG, not sure sorry haha.

But if I see him finish out the season strong my mind can be changed.

Put some more people around him and we're all set.

Three draft scenarios:
A)
1)DeSean Jackson WR, Cal. Can't you just see it now? "Jackson drops back, fires one deep to Jackson for the score" We'd have the Jacksons on offense and Williams on defense lol.
2)Best OT available. Cook is even worse than Rosenthal was.
3)Best safety available.

B)
1)Best OT available.
2)Mario Manningham. His stock has dropped a lot, but he's a dangerous player, he's that deep threat we've been looking for.
3)Best safety available.

C)
1)Kenny Phillips? I don't know if we'll be picking high enough to get him though(Not to be a completely insensitive asshole, but the Sean Taylor tragedy could benefit us and potentially make a Miami Safety drop... sorry if that offends anyone, but I'm just saying what I think).
2)Best OT available
3)Best WR available.

At some point in the draft I would love to see us call Owen Schmitt's name. For those of you who don't know him. He's a 6'3 260 pound fullback from West Virginia who powercleans 525 pounds... the olympic record is 580. He's broken 9 facemasks in the past two years, 5 of which were his own. He's a scary scary dude, and with Tony Richardson's injury issues and age I'd love to see this guy in purple.

Or we pursue a big name WR in a trade(Fitz?) which will cost us at least one of our 1-3 picks.
I still believe we should go after Max Starks(RT from Pittsburgh) UFA after this season.


We're only a few players(and a coach?
:-\) away from being a spectacular football team boys.

ultravikingfan
11-27-2007, 11:44 PM
"Austinpowers144" wrote:


Last time i checked, Collins put up some good numbers in his career and went to a super bowl.


Where is he right now?

What's your point again?

V4L
11-27-2007, 11:52 PM
Collins blows

Over the hill

BadlandsVikings
11-27-2007, 11:56 PM
"V4L" wrote:


Collins blows Over the hill


That wouldn't happen if he ate more
:D

V-Unit
11-28-2007, 12:01 AM
"Mr" wrote:


I'm still not entirely sold on TJack, I like what I saw sunday though.

I was really arguing against him with someone in the Yell, It may have been BleedinPandG, not sure sorry haha.

But if I see him finish out the season strong my mind can be changed.

Put some more people around him and we're all set.

Three draft scenarios:
A)
1)DeSean Jackson WR, Cal. Can't you just see it now? "Jackson drops back, fires one deep to Jackson for the score" We'd have the Jacksons on offense and Williams on defense lol.
2)Best OT available. Cook is even worse than Rosenthal was.
3)Best safety available.

B)
1)Best OT available.
2)Mario Manningham. His stock has dropped a lot, but he's a dangerous player, he's that deep threat we've been looking for.
3)Best safety available.

C)
1)Kenny Phillips? I don't know if we'll be picking high enough to get him though(Not to be a completely insensitive asshole, but the Sean Taylor tragedy could benefit us and potentially make a Miami Safety drop... sorry if that offends anyone, but I'm just saying what I think).
2)Best OT available
3)Best WR available.

At some point in the draft I would love to see us call Owen Schmitt's name. For those of you who don't know him. He's a 6'3 260 pound fullback from West Virginia who powercleans 525 pounds... the olympic record is 580. He's broken 9 facemasks in the past two years, 5 of which were his own. He's a scary scary dude, and with Tony Richardson's injury issues and age I'd love to see this guy in purple.

Or we pursue a big name WR in a trade(Fitz?) which will cost us at least one of our 1-3 picks.
I still believe we should go after Max Starks(RT from Pittsburgh) UFA after this season.


We're only a few players(and a coach?
:-\) away from being a spectacular football team boys.



Nice analysis.

As far as getting a WR, I think that is the obvious call. I just hope we can add someone with speed who can immediately start accross from Rice. Or Williamson could just pan out. Williamson really is killing us. Pursuing Fitz is the best call IMO. If TJ does pan out like we all hope, I would trade our 1 or our 2 for Fitz, and then draft either a Safety or a DT.

In regards to Cook, he is still our worst OL by far, but I think offensive lines get better with time and grow as a unit. I'm fine with giving him another year. He has improved, just not enough yet.

singersp
11-28-2007, 08:21 AM
Showing improvement (http://www.startribune.com/blogs/vikings/?p=1166)

November 26th, 2007 – 10:19 PM
by Judd Zulgad
startribune.com


With more news about Adrian Peterson’s probable return on Sunday against the Lions, we ran out of real estate in Tuesday’s Vikings notes to include an item on the play of Tarvaris Jackson over the past two games.....

Vikes_King
11-28-2007, 08:32 AM
Things could get interesting if TJack continues to grow not only as a passer, but as a scrambling QB.
Teams will not only have to stack the box at times to try and limit AD & CT's yards, but when they do drop back into coverage and Jackson is in the pocket, it would warrant a LB to remain close to the line in a QB Spy set up incase he tries to make a play on his feet..

singersp
12-01-2007, 08:33 AM
Minnesota Vikings QB Tarvaris Jackson has picked up his game (http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_7606372)

QB has been more accurate, confident

BY DON SEEHOLZER
Pioneer Press

Article Last Updated: 12/01/2007 12:18:23 AM CST


The even-keeled personality is the same and so are many of the quotes, but make no mistake about it, Tarvaris Jackson is a different quarterback than he was earlier this season.....

PurpleTide
12-01-2007, 08:51 AM
Tarvaris as well as the whole team, and coaching staff have made strides this whole season. Now we are starting to play to the players on this teams skills. Tarvaris is feeling better, and the play calling has evolved, and reflects what we do best. I look for more play-action, and also for more max protect when we have one on one chances.

If T-Jack continue's to hit passes down field against one/one coverages, it will just open up our whole playbook. So stack the box to stop CT, and AD, put one on one coverage on Rice, Wade, Williamson, I like our chances for more big plays.

Vikes_King
12-01-2007, 09:49 AM
i'd like to see us attempt about 20 passes this week, see if he can continue to hit those quick routes and try and get a few decent gains through the air.
But not push anything.
If he can establish even a remote passing game earlier, the play action pass, draw plays, and so much more will open up.
Should be a very interesting game

clark_griswold
12-01-2007, 12:08 PM
"Vikes_King" wrote:


i'd like to see us attempt about 20 passes this week, see if he can continue to hit those quick routes and try and get a few decent gains through the air.
But not push anything.
If he can establish even a remote passing game earlier, the play action pass, draw plays, and so much more will open up.
Should be a very interesting game


Play action passes and draw plays are our best friends this week. I also like to see TJack zing those passes on the button hook routes 10-15 yards out. Another thing that seems to be open all the time is when we roll Jackson out and have a slot receiver come all the way across the field. 9 times out of 10 he is running by himself.

PurplePowerPunch
12-01-2007, 01:29 PM
T-Jack looks as if he has the poise to play QB in the NFL. We know he has the arm, he just has to go out and prove it on Sundays. He's building some confidenice as the season goes on. He'll be ok, he knows he has to have a big game against the Kitties!!!

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
12-01-2007, 02:05 PM
"Mr" wrote:


I'm still not entirely sold on TJack, I like what I saw sunday though.

I was really arguing against him with someone in the Yell, It may have been BleedinPandG, not sure sorry haha.

But if I see him finish out the season strong my mind can be changed.

Put some more people around him and we're all set.

Three draft scenarios:
A)
1)DeSean Jackson WR, Cal. Can't you just see it now? "Jackson drops back, fires one deep to Jackson for the score" We'd have the Jacksons on offense and Williams on defense lol.
2)Best OT available. Cook is even worse than Rosenthal was.
3)Best safety available.

B)
1)Best OT available.
2)Mario Manningham. His stock has dropped a lot, but he's a dangerous player, he's that deep threat we've been looking for.
3)Best safety available.

C)
1)Kenny Phillips? I don't know if we'll be picking high enough to get him though(Not to be a completely insensitive donkey butt, but the Sean Taylor tragedy could benefit us and potentially make a Miami Safety drop... sorry if that offends anyone, but I'm just saying what I think).
2)Best OT available
3)Best WR available.

At some point in the draft I would love to see us call Owen Schmitt's name. For those of you who don't know him. He's a 6'3 260 pound fullback from West Virginia who powercleans 525 pounds... the olympic record is 580. He's broken 9 facemasks in the past two years, 5 of which were his own. He's a scary scary dude, and with Tony Richardson's injury issues and age I'd love to see this guy in purple.

Or we pursue a big name WR in a trade(Fitz?) which will cost us at least one of our 1-3 picks.
I still believe we should go after Max Starks(RT from Pittsburgh) UFA after this season.


We're only a few players(and a coach?
:-\) away from being a spectacular football team boys.




As far as drafting a WR I think it's impossible. I will guarantee you we will not take a WR first round. Probably not even first day. Wide reciever is not the problem. Quarterback is but thats not the point. We have two rookies one being a future star in Sydney Rice and a third year in an improving Williamson and a young Bobby Wade. If you want to argue we need a WR we wont take him in the draft. How many rookie WR do much better then Rice did this year. I cqan think of two who did significantly better their first year. Moss and Boldin. We would bring in an established #1 whos a veteran WR and he'll make our WRs look much better but we're not drafting a WR especially first round. Fitzgerald would be the best call bare none. He'd be that established number 1 whos a vet.

Personally if we don't go quarterback first round we'll correct the only flaw in our O-line. Ryan Cook. Draft the OT Gosder Cherilus out of Boston College or Jake Long or some Offensive tackle.

Here's my scenarios

A)
Round 1) Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College (Then get Chad Pennington who will start until Matt Ryan is ready.
Hey face it. This



1. Chad Pennington



2. Matt Ryan



3. Tarvaris Jackson
looks a whole lot better then this



1. Tarvaris Jackson



2. Kelly Holcomb



3. Brooks Bollinger
And if Jackson figures something out and becomes all the optimists on this site think he'll become we can always trade Matt Ryan or Jackson and start the franchise with one of them. If Jackson gets injured and or has one game like he did against Detroit the first time, or any of his other horrid performances we could go in a different direction. Personally I think he might achieve average but he will never be anything more.)

Round 2) Frank Okam, DT, Texas A&M (him or Red Bryant at D-Tackle to take over for an aging Pat Williams)

Round 3)
Tony Hills, OT, Texas (Ryan Cook is crap though improving I dont think it will be enough to save his job. This guy is exceptional at pass blocking)

Round 4) Bobbie Williams, FS, Bethune Cookman (This guy may come froma division I-AA which means he may need some time before he takes the ropes from Sharper but thats fine. The differences between crappy players from I-AA school and Bobbie is those guy were average at that level (like jackson) where this guy has been breaking records at that level and is the biggest ball hawk I've seent his year. A good replacement for Sharper in 2-3 years in my opinion.)



B)
Round 1)
Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College (Best O-Tackle available. If Jaake Longs there take him in a heart beat (but I doubt he'll be there at the 32nd pick!
;) haha. Well correct the weakest part of our line. Ryan Cook.)

Round 2)
Craig Steltz, S, LSU (Now this guy is a ball hawk.
He is the best in the draft at cutting in front of the ball and taking it away from receivers then anyone in the draft. I watched this guy a lot. Great replacement for Sharper in a couple years.)

Round 3)
B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College ( Part of the number 2-3 run defense in the nation this Defensive tackle is the best run stuffer in my opinion in the draft. He's a beast. I'd be excited for this guy taking over for the aging Pat Williams in a couple years.)

Round 4)
Greg Carr, WR, Florida State (I'm really unsure what to take here. Maybe my steal of the draft! This guy is 6'7 . Tall and great hands. Will win any jump ball battle with a DB. Huge and will never drop the ball. Great Red-zone target. Will increase our efficiency in the red zone a lot in my opinion. Only problem is he runs a 4.45 40 which isn't bad but you knew there was a down side when he's that tall with great hands and is projected 4th-5th round.)



C)
Round 1)
Vernon Gholston, Ohio State (What i liked is that this guy beat Jake Long in the Michigan game on several instances. If we take a Defensive end it will be a guy who will be an absolute star. If theres a problem with our "Weak-End Warriors" its that we have a bunch of guys who can play great if they had someone who struck fear into the tackles. James, Udeze, Robison, Edwards. Yeah they're okay but its the same problem with our receiver corp. We got a bunch of number twos and no established number 1.
This guy can be that established number one. Be a star and enough late round guy you think will be okay like Edwards and Robison. Get a guy who will be the next Jim Marshall or Dwight Freeney in the league. Our defense would be flawless after this acquisition)

Round 2)
Alex Boone, OT Ohio State (Ryan Cook is obviously crap though he has improved and looked good against Strahan a star but I dont think it will be enough to save his job.)

Round 3)
Trevor Laws, DT, Notre Dame (The only player on the Notre dame defense who's been solid all year.This guy is very versitile. Great pass rusher from the middle. But is solid at suffing the run.
I'd be excited for this guy taking over for the aging Pat Williams in a couple years.)

Round 4)
Bobbie Williams, FS, Bethune Cookman (This guy may come from a division I-AA which means he may need some time before he takes the ropes from Sharper but thats fine. The differences between crappy players from I-AA school and Bobbie is those guy were average at that level (like Jackson) where this guy has been breaking records at that level and is the biggest ball hawk I've seen this year. A good replacement for Sharper in 2-3 years in my opinion.)

Theres my scenerios

Johnson14
12-01-2007, 02:28 PM
I like TJ and think with the right coaching he can become a very good player, he is mobile and has a great arm, probably the best we have at throwing it deep, which is of course ideal for using play action to Peterson.

Big C
12-01-2007, 02:33 PM
I agree with you PurpleHornsOfDestruction on the WR situation. A premier experienced WR in FA is the best possible solution. Drafting another WR on the first day might not be as beneficial as other positions.

I'd like to see TJ play out the season before passing judgement. He has shown improvement (especially with accuracy!) as the season progressed, so it's encouraging.

I think the biggest difference over the last few weeks has been the offensive scheme moulding in to something that plays to our players strengths. The QB draws, bootlegs and HB dump-offs play to TJs strengths and help build his confidence during the game. We're finally sending Rice on deep routes instead of Williamson. We're actually calling max-protection on long developing routes. The O-Line is playing much better. Ryan Cook hasn't goofed up in an obvious way over the last few weeks.

purplepride_1961
12-01-2007, 03:12 PM
I want to see tjack and AD kick the lions asses all over the field

C Mac D
12-01-2007, 03:19 PM
"purplepride_1961" wrote:


I want to see tjack and AD kick the lions asses all over the field


I think most will agree with you.

Vikes_King
12-01-2007, 06:09 PM
"C" wrote:


"purplepride_1961" wrote:


I want to see tjack and AD kick the lions asses all over the field


I think most will agree with you.


And if they don't idk why they're on board.


(well, with the exception of a few other teams fans
:P lol)

VIKINGinGEORGIA
12-02-2007, 02:38 PM
At first, I was opitimistic. I was telling the PURPLE NATION, "be patient."
After
the Dallas game,
I was secretly wishing he would get hit by a Truck. For two games, he has played, dare I say it? What the hell? He has played well.
I know that he has some games left for audition, but should we still draft a QB in the first round, despite TJs recent success?

Mikecarter81
12-02-2007, 02:40 PM
Well this is a touchy issue, but I would be fair in saying that ALL of us would agree that we hope he plays real well!
I'm very happy for him today.
He has looked wonderful against the last three teams he's played.
Keep it up TJ

MIke

C Mac D
12-02-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm not for drafting a QB first round regardless. We have other needs.

Although, I do feel we need to draft a QB either 2nd or 3rd round.

I know I've said it before... Dennis Dixon.

Mr-holland
12-02-2007, 02:42 PM
again, good first half by TJ

jessejames09
12-02-2007, 02:45 PM
"C" wrote:


I'm not for drafting a QB first round regardless. We have other needs.

Although, I do feel we need to draft a QB either 2nd or 3rd round.

I know I've said it before... Dennis Dixon.


Are we switching to a spread option offense?

Mikecarter81
12-02-2007, 02:53 PM
"C" wrote:


I'm not for drafting a QB first round regardless. We have other needs.

Although, I do feel we need to draft a QB either 2nd or 3rd round.

I know I've said it before... Dennis Dixon.


You know another guy I liked was Ainge from Tennessee, they looked real good against LSU last night, despite the loss.

Mike

OnlyVikes
12-02-2007, 03:00 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I'm not for drafting a QB first round regardless. We have other needs.

Although, I do feel we need to draft a QB either 2nd or 3rd round.

I know I've said it before... Dennis Dixon.


You know another guy I liked was Ainge from Tennessee, they looked real good against LSU last night, despite the loss.

Mike
...except Tarvaris is doing a perfectly good job. Why waste a draft pick? Seems asinine to me. ???

Garland Greene
12-02-2007, 03:02 PM
Ok I will admit. He for the first time to me is acting like he is starting to "get it". Am I ready to jump on the Band wagon and think he is the QB of the future? Nope. But I can say that it is nice to fianally see him play with some consistancy, and show that he is not the "joke"
that i think he is.Still has a long way to go. so for now I will just call him T-Jo the K and E may come back later ;)

olson_10
12-02-2007, 03:05 PM
"C" wrote:


I'm not for drafting a QB first round regardless. We have other needs.

Although, I do feel we need to draft a QB either 2nd or 3rd round.

I know I've said it before... Dennis Dixon.

what we need to do is sign a good backup, and keep going with jackson, assuming he plays like this for the rest of the season

i agree that we have other needs, and though id like to go with a WR, im not sure we will have a high enough draft pick to get a sure thing cant miss player at that position..i wouldnt mind drafting a corner in the first round, or a safety to eventually replace sharper

Garland Greene
12-02-2007, 03:18 PM
INT in the red zone...And that is why he still has a long way to go.

LuckyVike
12-02-2007, 03:22 PM
"Garland" wrote:


INT in the red zone...And that is why he still has a long way to go.


Yea, he's played pretty good these past couple games but I think he needs to play like this the rest of the season (without the redzone turnovers) for me to not want a 1st round QB.

ultravikingfan
12-02-2007, 03:22 PM
"Garland" wrote:


INT in the red zone...And that is why he still has a long way to go.


Please. he is fine.
Nobody is perfect and 1 pick in 2 games is acceptable (especially for guy with only a handful of games).

Garland Greene
12-02-2007, 03:25 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


INT in the red zone...And that is why he still has a long way to go.


Please. he is fine.
Nobody is perfect and 1 pick in 2 games is acceptable (especially for guy with only a handful of games).


didn't say he wan't fine today but you can't make mistakes like this either.

Mikecarter81
12-02-2007, 03:52 PM
Yup I have to agree I didn't think the Turnover was good in the redzone.
I still like what i see.
He appears relaxed, more involved with good zip on his pass and some real good reads.

Mike

ultravikingfan
12-02-2007, 03:55 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


Yup I have to agree I didn't think the Turnover was good in the redzone.
I still like what i see.
He appears relaxed, more involved with good zip on his pass and some real good reads.

Mike


A turnover in the RZ is never a good thing.
He is getting there.
Maybe he gets a little too excited in the RZ.

Mikecarter81
12-02-2007, 04:04 PM
I think some of what you see is that the offense is opening up some.
You actually see some players run decent length routes.
What I've seen over the last couple weeks is the emergence of the slant.
This is the bread and butter pass of the WCO.
I think Sidney Rice has emerged some which give them aviable person to throw too.
Early on the T jack tried to throw these passes, but often they were to Troy Williamson and were dropped bobbled or worse!
I think he has slowly developed confidence.

Mike

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 04:17 PM
18-24 204 yards, 2 TD's & 1 INT.
QB Rating of 110.4

Congrats T-Jack on your first 200+ yard game, your first 2 TD (passing) game, and your 2nd consecutive game with a rating of 100+

i_bleed_purple
12-02-2007, 04:24 PM
I wasn't able to watch the game so i only got the game centre on nfl.com
Although TJacks stats were impressive, how was his pocket presence?
was he getting rid of the ball quicker?
i see he only took one sack, so it looks like he's much improved.
I hope he keeps it up in the push to the playoffs.

NordicNed
12-02-2007, 04:27 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


INT in the red zone...And that is why he still has a long way to go.


Please. he is fine.
Nobody is perfect and 1 pick in 2 games is acceptable (especially for guy with only a handful of games).




Even though they shouldn't happen and we all hate to see them, an INT in the red zone is going to happen in a QB's young career....THIS
IS HOW THEY LEARN.... ;)

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 04:28 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


I wasn't able to watch the game so i only got the game centre on nfl.com
Although TJacks stats were impressive, how was his pocket presence?
was he getting rid of the ball quicker?
i see he only took one sack, so it looks like he's much improved.
I hope he keeps it up in the push to the playoffs.


One of his 6 incompletions was a throw away when he was avoiding the pressure.
There was one or two plays where he could have reacted faster, one being where he took the sack, probably should have ran.
But there was no one open.

Best game of his career, the INT was just plain unlucky, it was thrown right after a perfectly placed ball to Shiancoe for a touchdown, that was batted out of his hands before he had possesion.

Webby
12-02-2007, 04:29 PM
"NordicNed" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


INT in the red zone...And that is why he still has a long way to go.


Please. he is fine.
Nobody is perfect and 1 pick in 2 games is acceptable (especially for guy with only a handful of games).




Even though they shouldn't happen and we all hate to see them, an INT in the red zone is going to happen in a QB's young career....THIS
IS HOW THEY LEARN.... ;)


Favre is still a chucker even in the endzone.
It happens.

The consideration is frequency of it happening.

BBQ Platypus
12-02-2007, 04:30 PM
I think the best evidence of T-Jack's improvement could be shown just by comparing his body language this week compared to last week.
He seems to be more confident in himself - less confused.
I'm sure someone can back me up with video here (cough, cough).

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 04:31 PM
"BBQ" wrote:


I think the best evidence of T-Jack's improvement could be shown just by comparing his body language this week compared to last week.
He seems to be more confident in himself - less confused.
I'm sure someone can back me up with video here (cough, cough).


don't worry, i'm sure once ultra gets to watch the game, since he records all of them on dvd, he'll post some video like he did last week.
Or at least i hope so
:)

Marrdro
12-02-2007, 04:32 PM
I will eat a bit of crow and say a very impressive performance considering what he was asked to do today.
Maybe the kid has it.

Still a concern for me is how fast it will come around (seems to be getting there) and his percieved ability or lack thereof of staying healthy.

If (Big if) he keeps showing this kindof improvement I will get off the DA and Sorji bandwagon.
;D

ultravikingfan
12-02-2007, 04:33 PM
"Vikes_King" wrote:


"BBQ" wrote:


I think the best evidence of T-Jack's improvement could be shown just by comparing his body language this week compared to last week.
He seems to be more confident in himself - less confused.
I'm sure someone can back me up with video here (cough, cough).


don't worry, i'm sure once ultra gets to watch the game, since he records all of them on dvd, he'll post some video like he did last week.
Or at least i hope so
:)

V-Unit
12-02-2007, 04:34 PM
He showed amazing composure and great accuracy today.

davike
12-02-2007, 04:42 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


I think some of what you see is that the offense is opening up some.
You actually see some players run decent length routes.
What I've seen over the last couple weeks is the emergence of the slant.
This is the bread and butter pass of the WCO.
I think Sidney Rice has emerged some which give them aviable person to throw too.
Early on the T jack tried to throw these passes, but often they were to Troy Williamson and were dropped bobbled or worse!
I think he has slowly developed confidence.

Mike


I just have to pick on this one statement.....name one slant route where Williamson dropped the ball. Williamson has one or two drops overall this year. Don't put the blame on Williamson.

Purple Floyd
12-02-2007, 04:51 PM
He did this week.

V4L
12-02-2007, 04:57 PM
Still the number 1 T-jack fan here to yo

Ltrey33
12-02-2007, 05:10 PM
Just when I was saying "No...he hasn't shown any improvement" he starts to kick ass.

Before the bye week and before he got hurt, I had said that he hadn't shown much improvement....at least not enough to be our starter. Then he comes out three weeks in a row and is efficient and avoids turning the ball over and gives the defense something to think about....I am glad to see him improving. I hope it continues!

HornedHat
12-02-2007, 05:18 PM
Did I see our QB throw for over 200 yds and 2 TDs? Was that TJack? Thank God! I admit, I was losing confidence in him. Now he b a-showing me something! Improvement! Good, hopefully he can keep it going, and we can use our draft for something besides fixing an old mistake at QB. AND, we get to start another long winning streak against dem Lions!

Schutz
12-02-2007, 05:19 PM
"Ltrey" wrote:


Just when I was saying "No...he hasn't shown any improvement" he starts to kick jiggly butt.

Before the bye week and before he got hurt, I had said that he hadn't shown much improvement....at least not enough to be our starter. Then he comes out three weeks in a row and is efficient and avoids turning the ball over and gives the defense something to think about....I am glad to see him improving. I hope it continues!


I agree, i've been as critical of T-Jack as the nexty guy, but i'm not too big to admit he's been looking darn good and consistant.
Other than that dumb pass in the second half for a pick he looked so much better.
I was especially happy with his pocket presense, he was actually stepping up a lot and knew when the rush was coming.

Vikes_King
12-02-2007, 05:24 PM
he keeps improving like this.. i might have to get a jersey.

(altho i might want a AD or Rice one first.. :P idk yet)

vikesfargo
12-02-2007, 06:14 PM
Very impressive game by Tarvaris Jackson. If he continues to improve little by little, he will be a Pro Bowl-caliber quarterback next year.

If the December 2nd Lions game is any sign, he is getting to be frighteningly good.

There's no telling what the limit for Tarvaris Jackson is. If he keeps working at it, he could be a great quarterback with multiple Super Bowl wins. Of course, to get there, it's one step at a time. But that's what I see as a potential horizon.

One thing that sets Jackson apart is that he has an incredible will to win. His competitive nature is very powerful. If he keeps that, he can get there from here.

V4L
12-02-2007, 06:15 PM
"vikesfargo" wrote:


Very impressive game by Tarvaris Jackson. If he continues to improve little by little, he will be a Pro Bowl-caliber quarterback next year.

If the December 2nd Lions game is any sign, he is getting to be frighteningly good.

There's no telling what the limit for Tarvaris Jackson is. If he keeps working at it, he could be a great quarterback with multiple Super Bowl wins. Of course, to get there, it's one step at a time. But that's what I see as a potential horizon.



That's the way I see it

He has some growing pains like most "rookies"

But he is making huge strides amazingly quick