PDA

View Full Version : Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)



Pages : [1] 2

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:00 PM
I've been saying it for a few weeks now, however, I thought I would put a bit of my research in a thread.

Most of you know (who take the time to read my posts) that I believe there is a major issue related to QB talent in the NFL now.
I attribute that to a few things, however, for this discussion, the biggest being the fact that you just can't get through a year with only one guy that can lead the team if you still want to be effective.

With that said, more and more teams are carrying two high priced QB's on thier roster which greatly reduces the availability of a said QB's that can be picked up by other teams or makes the asking price for them just to high.


Going into next year, it would appear that the QB wheel at the Vikes is gonna take another spin.
Let me rationalize this for some of you, who will automatically throw out TJ as an option, with some of my assumptions so that you don't pick the post apart with your perceived facts:

(Were TJ will be by the end of the year) (Remember my assumptions)
a.
It is gonna take at least another year to develop TJ into a viable starter.



1.
Still making bad throws.



2.
Still throwing ball into defenders hands



3.
Still not making reads quickly enough to run the WCO.
b.
TJ might not be a viable starter because of injury concerns. (Quality backup for a game or 2)



1. Groin



2. Finger



3. Concussion
c.
We need a Vet in that can grow with/lead this team.

Again, whether TJ will ever be a QB in the NFL is not my discussion point so lets not dwell on that.
Suffice it to say, however, for this thread, lets make it a fact that he won't be available/viable next year as our starter.

Were does that lead us?

IMHO it leads us to the fact that based on what I am seeing this year, we are a QB, WR, and a DE away from being a really good team.
There will be a pleathura of WR's and DE's out there to choose from, especially with the CAP we have avail so that shouldn't be an issue.
QB's are another story.

Again, the state of Vet QB's in the NFL are a huge concern when you start looking at what will be avail in the FA market next year.
IMHO there won't be anything that this organization can just go out and get off the street.


That leaves only one solution.
They will have to broker a deal with a team that has someone sitting on thier roster that can come in and be a quality starter for us.

Quality starter.
What does that mean?
Well for this discussion the following traits/strenghts must come to bear.

(My recipe for a Quality Starting QB)
a.
He has been or is in a WCO scheme.
Although this isn't as huge as some would think, it would help as he transitions into the scheme we run.
b.
He isn't old. I would prefer a 3-5 year vet, could be a backup that is behind a good starter.
c.
He has to have no issue with character. Seems the staff will bend on this a bit.
d. We can get him for no more than 2 picks.
2 solid drafts with the 3rd coming up for depth leaves a bit of wiggle room for spending 2 picks on the right guy.
e.
He doesn't need to be developed.
He can come right in during the offseason (Pre OTA's) and work with the staff leading up to camp.
f. The front office needs to do this as soon as they can, but not right before the season starts.

Lets look at the teams that run a "So Called" WCO now and what they have starting or on the bench.

(Note 1 - IMHO there are two types of WCO schemes being run today.
One (P/R) is a Pass to set up the run style and one is Run (R/P) to set up the pass style)
(Note 2 - IMHO we are a R/P oriented team.
(V along will like that ;D))

a.
Eagles (P/R) - McNabb, Kolb.
I know, I know, the whole Chiller/Eagles connection will come up but lets keep to some intelligent football convo here.
I wouldn't mind McNabb but I think that he might be a bit old for a long term solution.
Might be worth it if we can get him with no picks involved.
We could then use either one of the 1rst or 3rd on another rook to develop.

b. Denver - (R/P) - Cutler, Ramsey.
I think we can rule Cutler out.
Still wish Bryzcheapski and the front office would have given Denver what they wanted for that pick.
You wouldn't have to read this thread then.
;D


Ramsey is interesting to me.
1rst round selection (32nd) by the Skins, 35 TD's with 30 Int's.
Might be a bit to sloppy with the ball for the style we run but it is hard to tell without actually going back and looking at all the situations he was in when they were thrown.
Primary backup to Cutler will probably make the asking price to high.
Long story short, probably not a good option.

c.
GB. (P/R) Favreeeeee, Rodgers.
OK.
I only put this in there so no one would say......Hey you forgot about GB.
Really, do you think I would wast my time even researching the possibility that we would go after one of these or that they would entertain giving us one.

;D Lets move on.

d.
Seattle. (I can't tell what they are now.
When they have a healthy RB they are R/P).
Matt Hasselbeck, Seneca Wallace,
Charlie Frye.
The only one that I think even comes close to meeting our needs would be Wallace.

Matt isn't going anywhere no matter how much we offer and, well Frye is only on this team cause of injury and Cleveland had a better option(s).

Wallace is a 5 year man with some pretty good stuff for the limited time he has seen the field.
My biggest nock on him is he is 5'11" which could be a major issue behind the OL we have.
All of them are pretty tall.
This alone would slow down his read/react time of getting the ball out on the 3 step drops.
Probably not an option for that reason.
Also, Matt has been dinged over the last couple of years so I don't think Seneca is open to go anywere.

e.
Texans.
(P/R).

Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels,
Craig Nall.
Schaub could suck for the rest of the year, if he ever gets healthy and he isn't going anywere cause the Texans have so much invested in him.
Sage is already into his 7th year of his alustrious career with 16 TD/13 Ints.
Not a huge indicator of how well he protects the all/reads defenses without actually going in and looking up the game time situations.
Nall, I couldn't find to much about but he has 4 TD's and 0 Ints in a 6 year career.
Only thing interesting there is he learned behind Lord Favreeeeeee.
Again, kindof interesting.

f.
TB.
(R/P).

Jeff Garcia,
Luke McCown,
Bruce Gradkowski.
McCown = 4 yrs, 4TD's 7 Ints. Pretty much a no go for me based on that and the times I've seen him play. He is a bit mobile and is a tough kid, however, there is nothing else I like.
Gradkowski,
9 TD's/10Int's.
Nice size, mobile but only 2 years.
Might be a bit of a developmental guy.
Rule him out just for that.

g.
Cleveland (P/R). Anderson, Quinn.
Ok, I saved these two for last.
Both know I want Anderson and think the team should not only ask Cleveland if Anderson is available, but they should also give up whatever the asking price is.
Quinn isn't going anywhere for along time and if we could, the price would be way to high IMHO.

With all that said, here is the way I would rank the guys that are out there that might be avail for us to improve the QB position.

a.
Anderson.
High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
b1.
Pennington.
I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
b2.
McNabb.
Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
b3.
Losman.
Another one that I left out.
Added because a poster gave a rationale reason to add him.
c.
Nall.
Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
Still an interesting candidate.
d.
Gradkowski.
Not a bad candidate.
TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
e. Wallace.
Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.

I throw it out there for anyone that knows of another option (Please give rationale and keep it to guys that are on teams right now.
No washed up has beens and no collegiate players.)

vikingivan
11-07-2007, 12:08 PM
I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:14 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.

Nice reply.

Well, I almost put him in there, however, I couldn't cover everyone.
My fingers were getting sore.
:o

I did do some digging on him 3 weeks ago and didn't like the fact that he is injury prone (arm) as well as he is basically being benched for a Rookie, who I think the Vikes screwed the Pooch on and should have on the roster right now.

That along with Cutler gets me a bit upset.

With that said, doesn't his arm strength worry you a bit?

Purple Floyd
11-07-2007, 12:15 PM
What is wrong with:

1)Bollinger
2)Jackson
3)Holcolm

As the depth chart?

Bollinger has as good a chance at winning as 75% of those on your spreadsheet and he already knows the system. His body has little wear on it and he is familiar with the staff and team

Jackson can continue to develop at his leisure

holcolm comes in during an emergency.

pixie
11-07-2007, 12:17 PM
I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:19 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


What is wrong with:

1)Bollinger
2)Jackson
3)Holcolm

As the depth chart?

Bollinger has as good a chance at winning as 75% of those on your spreadsheet and he already knows the system. His body has little wear on it and he is familiar with the staff and team

Jackson can continue to develop at his leisure

holcolm comes in during an emergency.


My friend, great input.
I left the Vikings QB's off the discussion if for no other reason than there is already an active thread about who should be starting.

IMHO we should have the following lineup next year......

QB X
TJ
Brooks (or a stellar rook if one is drafted).

vikingivan
11-07-2007, 12:21 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.

Nice reply.

Well, I almost put him in there, however, I couldn't cover everyone.
My fingers were getting sore.

:o

I did do some digging on him 3 weeks ago and didn't like the fact that he is injury prone (arm) as well as he is basically being benched for a Rookie, who I think the Vikes screwed the Pooch on and should have on the roster right now.

That along with Cutler gets me a bit upset.

With that said, doesn't his arm strength worry you a bit?


yes, his arm strenght is a worry Marr.
But, I think he would be capable of completing some nice play action passes.
What we need is a west coast qb that can keep the defense honest.
One that can take advantage of 8 men in the box.
While were at it we might as well bring laveranues Coles with him.
I still don't understand why they want to bench him.
He has completed 67% of his passes for an 87.5 qb rating.

Purple Floyd
11-07-2007, 12:21 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.

Nice reply.

Well, I almost put him in there, however, I couldn't cover everyone.
My fingers were getting sore.
:o

I did do some digging on him 3 weeks ago and didn't like the fact that he is injury prone (arm) as well as he is basically being benched for a Rookie, who I think the Vikes screwed the Pooch on and should have on the roster right now.

That along with Cutler gets me a bit upset.

With that said, doesn't his arm strength worry you a bit?


They had film on him at NFL network and showed him making some very hard to complete passes. he has very good accuracy and can get the ball downfield for anything except the 60 yard bomb. Now in the WCO you know we need someone who can complete the short to mid range passes with accuracy. He can do that very well.

That being said, he has been beat up pretty good and that keeps me from wanting him. If we had a top offensive line in the passing game I would risk it, but we don't.

pack93z
11-07-2007, 12:23 PM
I think you may want to include the following to this list..

JP Losman - Trent Edwards will be given the reins and JP is basically going to become available for the right price.

Mobile
Big arm
Young but still got an upside
Has experience


Chris Simms - Should be able to snag him for a decent price and he is a gamer..

Mark Brunnell for a year.

Do you call Jake Plummer and see if he is interested after a year away from the game?

David Carr - Don't think he will be retained in Carolina if Fox is shown the door.. did you see the leap for the first down earlier this year.. guy has the heart to win.

Don't give up on Bollinger or TJ just yet.. but a veteran for a year or two might be the smart play.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:24 PM
"pixie" wrote:


I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.


Ok, again a quality input that gives rationale for Pennington.
I will add him to the list.
Were do all think he should be, after McNabb maybe?

Nice post my friend.

COJOMAY
11-07-2007, 12:27 PM
Marrdro: As usualy one of your well-though out posts as compared to some people who just post "Childress Sucks" type of thing.
As I read your post I tend to disagree with the need of WR. Now I know everyone will chomp down on me for that statement but I think we've got some good WR. Not great, but good. We just don't have a QB who can get the ball to them consistantly.
I agree with the fact that we need a good defensive tackle, but I would also add someone to either replace Birk or McKinney a year or two down the road.
I think we have a good backup in BB. Maybe in TJ (notice I said maybe...) Dump Holcomb. I would like to see Anderson or even draft a QB and allow BB to become the starter if TJ doesn't work out. I just think that the price may be too high for us though to pick up Anderson.
I guess we'll just have to let this play out and see what direction the "Triangle of Authority" takes.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:27 PM
"pack93z" wrote:


I think you may want to include the following to this list..

JP Losman - Trent Edwards will be given the reins and JP is basically going to become available for the right price.

Mobile
Big arm
Young but still got an upside
Has experience


Chris Simms - Should be able to snag him for a decent price and he is a gamer..

Mark Brunnell for a year.

Do you call Jake Plummer and see if he is interested after a year away from the game?

David Carr - Don't think he will be retained in Carolina if Fox is shown the door.. did you see the leap for the first down earlier this year.. guy has the heart to win.

Don't give up on Bollinger or TJ just yet.. but a veteran for a year or two might be the smart play.



Nice input my friend.

Although I don't discount Plummer, I left him off for only one reason. So we wouldn't be besieged by inputs about guys that aren't on rosters right now. (i.e. George).

Plummer could/should be an option for this staff.
I hope they do inquire.

Do you think they will want to get rid of Losman?

vikingivan
11-07-2007, 12:30 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"pixie" wrote:


I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.


Ok, again a quality input that gives rationale for Pennington.
I will add him to the list.
Were do all think he should be, after McNabb maybe?

Nice post my friend.


I say we put Pennington number one on the list.
We sign him to a 3 year deal.
We then do whatever we have to do get Matt Ryan in the draft.
We let Ryan take his time and learn under Pennington.
I believe Pennington would be a good mentor.
He does not come across as an athlete that puts I in front of team.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:31 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


Marrdro: As usualy one of your well-though out posts as compared to some people who just post "Childress Sucks" type of thing.
As I read your post I tend to disagree with the need of WR. Now I know everyone will chomp down on me for that statement but I think we've got some good WR. Not great, but good. We just don't have a QB who can get the ball to them consistantly.
I agree with the fact that we need a good defensive tackle, but I would also add someone to either replace Birk or McKinney a year or two down the road.
I think we have a good backup in BB. Maybe in TJ (notice I said maybe...) Dump Holcomb. I would like to see Anderson or even draft a QB and allow BB to become the starter if TJ doesn't work out. I just think that the price may be too high for us though to pick up Anderson.
I guess we'll just have to let this play out and see what direction the "Triangle of Authority" takes.

Thanks for you kind comment my friend.

I knew I would/could open a can of worms with the WR and DE comment, however it was a relavent comment for my point on the status of the team.

I do like our WR, but believe one more good Vet would really help us out, especially if we decide to go with a young QB again next year.

Additionally, I am a fan of BB but have elected to stick behind our starter for obvious reasons.
Additionally, I tried to stay away from our QB's in this topic as it is being discussed in another thread.

My lineup would be

QB X
TJ
BB (or a stud rookie if we draft one).

Again, good input.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:33 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"pixie" wrote:


I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.


Ok, again a quality input that gives rationale for Pennington.
I will add him to the list.
Were do all think he should be, after McNabb maybe?

Nice post my friend.


I say we put Pennington number one on the list.
We sign him to a 3 year deal.
We then do whatever we have to do get Matt Ryan in the draft.
We let Ryan take his time and learn under Pennington.
I believe Pennington would be a good mentor.
He does not come across as an athlete that puts I in front of team.

OK.
I will put Pennington above McNabb but not ahead of Anderson.
;D

Seriously though.
Nice input.

vikingivan
11-07-2007, 12:35 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"pixie" wrote:


I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.


Ok, again a quality input that gives rationale for Pennington.
I will add him to the list.
Were do all think he should be, after McNabb maybe?

Nice post my friend.


I say we put Pennington number one on the list.
We sign him to a 3 year deal.
We then do whatever we have to do get Matt Ryan in the draft.
We let Ryan take his time and learn under Pennington.
I believe Pennington would be a good mentor.
He does not come across as an athlete that puts I in front of team.

OK.
I will put Pennington above McNabb but not ahead of Anderson.

;D

Seriously though.
Nice input.


I do like Anderson.
If we got him we would not need to draft a qb.

pack93z
11-07-2007, 12:37 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Do you think they will want to get rid of Losman?


For the right price, I believe so.. the other reason I think they will move him, is he has a starter mentality and from the little I have heard, didn't like the thought of giving up his throne on the depth chart after only a few games.

Plus you have this working within the Bills, Marv Levy isn't getting any younger and he wants to build a winner there in a hurry.. they need depth along the defensive front.. trading a decent pick and a decent DE with some potential may be just what the doctor ordered to obtain JP.

Just a hunch that is... Not to mention that JP has either 2 or 3 years left on his rookie deal so it might be peak value time to move him.

Zeus
11-07-2007, 12:39 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.

Nice reply.

Well, I almost put him in there, however, I couldn't cover everyone.
My fingers were getting sore.

:o


No doubt - nice Wall o' Text there, Marr.

=Z=

pixie
11-07-2007, 12:39 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"pixie" wrote:


I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.


Ok, again a quality input that gives rationale for Pennington.
I will add him to the list.
Were do all think he should be, after McNabb maybe?

Nice post my friend.


I say we put Pennington number one on the list.
We sign him to a 3 year deal.
We then do whatever we have to do get Matt Ryan in the draft.
We let Ryan take his time and learn under Pennington.
I believe Pennington would be a good mentor.
He does not come across as an athlete that puts I in front of team.

OK.
I will put Pennington above McNabb but not ahead of Anderson.

;D

Seriously though.
Nice input.


I would also agree with putting Pennington above McNabb.
I think he would be a great influence to have for our other QB's.
As much as I like McNabb, there is something that rubs me a little bit in the wrong way.
I am not sure if this is because of the media's manipulation of him or the player himself.
I recognize that is a completely subjective response so I did not want to include it in my feelings on the QB issue, but if given the choice I would go with Pennington.

Zeus
11-07-2007, 12:41 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.


Pennington?
PENNINGTON?

Dear God, no.
I'd rather have Jake Plummer than that weak-armed walking injury report.

Pennington?!?!?

If you thought people bitched about not throwing deep when Brittle Brad was taking snaps last year, wait until they get a load of Mr. Can't Throw An Out Pass.

=Z=

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:42 PM
"pack93z" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Do you think they will want to get rid of Losman?


For the right price, I believe so.. the other reason I think they will move him, is he has a starter mentality and from the little I have heard, didn't like the thought of giving up his throne on the depth chart after only a few games.

Plus you have this working within the Bills, Marv Levy isn't getting any younger and he wants to build a winner there in a hurry.. they need depth along the defensive front.. trading a decent pick and a decent DE with some potential may be just what the doctor ordered to obtain JP.

Just a hunch that is... Not to mention that JP has either 2 or 3 years left on his rookie deal so it might be peak value time to move him.

Very nice.

Were would you put him on the list?

pack93z
11-07-2007, 12:44 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


I say we put Pennington number one on the list.
We sign him to a 3 year deal.
We then do whatever we have to do get Matt Ryan in the draft.
We let Ryan take his time and learn under Pennington.
I believe Pennington would be a good mentor.
He does not come across as an athlete that puts I in front of team.


There is a quandry for you.. Matt Ryan is going to go early in this draft, and if you continue along at the current pace or pick it up some in the winning department.. you will have to move up to get him. The Rams, Fins, and Falcons are probably looking to a QB this comming spring, add to that the Bears.. Ryan and Brian Brohm are probably is gone at that point.

Woodson and Colt Brennan are next in line.. Woodson might take some time to develop and Brennan will have to unlearn the June Jones offense to be effective in the NFL..

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:44 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.


Pennington?
PENNINGTON?

Dear God, no.
I'd rather have Jake Plummer than that weak-armed walking injury report.

Pennington?!?!?

If you thought people bitched about not throwing deep when Brittle Brad was taking snaps last year, wait until they get a load of Mr. Can't Throw An Out Pass.

=Z=

I also questioned his arm strenght and left him off just for that reason, however the masses have spoke.

Schutz
11-07-2007, 12:45 PM
Top to bottom order.

1. Chad Pennington
2. Donavon Mcnabb
3. Jake Plummer

I will not put Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson on a list of QB's the Vikes should get.
I refuse.
I will not see this team give up a 1st and 3rd pick it will require to get them when we could easily pursue and get one of the first two people on my list (not to mention Pennington probably is going to look for a smaller market that doesn't include one of the big three cities, because the fans are bigger dicks than us.)
We can get Pennington/Mcnabb or possibly Plummer if he wanted to come out of retirement for MN
::)
But lets say we do get Pennington who is nice and accurate and would fit our scheme well I think.
Then we could use the first and third picks we still have to address the WR, DE, RT/RG situation.

Once again, please don't be happy giving up a first and a third pick for a QB when there will be viable options on the market that don't cost that.
And don't get me wrong, if Derek Anderson was a unrestricted free agent he'd be on the top of the list, but things being how they are don't get worked up over the Cleveland Browns.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:46 PM
"pack93z" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


I say we put Pennington number one on the list.
We sign him to a 3 year deal.
We then do whatever we have to do get Matt Ryan in the draft.
We let Ryan take his time and learn under Pennington.
I believe Pennington would be a good mentor.
He does not come across as an athlete that puts I in front of team.


There is a quandry for you.. Matt Ryan is going to go early in this draft, and if you continue along at the current pace or pick it up some in the winning department.. you will have to move up to get him. The Rams, Fins, and Falcons are probably looking to a QB this comming spring, add to that the Bears.. Ryan and Brian Brohm are probably is gone at that point.

Woodson and Colt Brennan are next in line.. Woodson might take some time to develop and Brennan will have to unlearn the June Jones offense to be effective in the NFL..



Remember, one of the assumptions in this post is that we don't want to go into next year with another rookie/developmental guy.

For this thread lets just pretend that we only want a Vet as our starter next year.
;D

pack93z
11-07-2007, 12:50 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Were would you put him on the list?


Somewhere between b1 and b3... MacNabb brings a proven track record and knows Chilly's offense, but has to basically relearn how to play the game without his running ability.. not that he won't be able to run again, but I think the mental part will set in about it.

Anderson is going to be a tough play to get out of Cleveland if he continues along the pace he has, that franchise is starving for a winner and he has given them some light.. if he carries this performance out til the end of the season.. he will be near demi-god status in the pound.. they would take a major hit in dealing him..

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:50 PM
"Schutz" wrote:


Top to bottom order.

1. Chad Pennington
2. Donavon Mcnabb
3. Jake Plummer

I will not put Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson on a list of QB's the Vikes should get.
I refuse.
I will not see this team give up a 1st and 3rd pick it will require to get them when we could easily pursue and get one of the first two people on my list (not to mention Pennington probably is going to look for a smaller market that doesn't include one of the big three cities, because the fans are bigger whoopdeedoos than us.)
We can get Pennington/Mcnabb or possibly Plummer if he wanted to come out of retirement for MN
::)
But lets say we do get Pennington who is nice and accurate and would fit our scheme well I think.
Then we could use the first and third picks we still have to address the WR, DE, RT/RG situation.

Once again, please don't be happy giving up a first and a third pick for a QB when there will be viable options on the market that don't cost that.
And don't get me wrong, if Derek Anderson was a unrestricted free agent he'd be on the top of the list, but things being how they are don't get worked up over the Cleveland Browns.

I hear ya and briefly mentioned draft picks in the thread.

I believe that because we have done so well in the previous two drafts, we are sitting pretty good going into the 2008 draft and do have the latitude to give up a pick or two if necessary.

Additionally, we do already have an extra pick cause our front office seems to know how to work the draft for extra picks (i.e. Rice deal). I don't think we will mortage the bank, so to speak, with giving up 2 picks for the kid if he he is available.

Long story short, with what we have now (Player wise) and what we can do in the FA market, doesn't it make sense to go after a DE and WR in the FA market, make sure we have a good QB that will be here for awhile and then draft depth at the positions you just mentioned.

pack93z
11-07-2007, 12:52 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Remember, one of the assumptions in this post is that we don't want to go into next year with another rookie/developmental guy.

For this thread lets just pretend that we only want a Vet as our starter next year.

;D


Yep just broaching the Matt Ryan development theory.. which would be a great coup if the Vikes obtain him somehow this offseason.. he has the right make up, a good teaching in Jags, and has the physical tools. Nice call Vikingivan.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 12:55 PM
Some really good stuff my friends.
How about some comments on the guys below Losman.
Do you all think they aren't viable options?

Zeus
11-07-2007, 12:57 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


a.
Anderson.
High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
b1.
Pennington.
I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
b2.
McNabb.
Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
c.
Nall.
Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
Still an interesting candidate.
d.
Gradkowski.
Not a bad candidate.
TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
e. Wallace.
Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.

I throw it out there for anyone that knows of another option (Please give rationale and keep it to guys that are on teams right now.
No washed up has beens and no collegiate players.)



Why are you putting QBs on the list who aren't actually going to be free agents?
The discussion should be based in reality, at this point, since there is so much that is unknown at halfway through the 2007 season.

http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=

Schutz
11-07-2007, 12:58 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Schutz" wrote:


Top to bottom order.

1. Chad Pennington
2. Donavon Mcnabb
3. Jake Plummer

I will not put Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson on a list of QB's the Vikes should get.
I refuse.
I will not see this team give up a 1st and 3rd pick it will require to get them when we could easily pursue and get one of the first two people on my list (not to mention Pennington probably is going to look for a smaller market that doesn't include one of the big three cities, because the fans are bigger whoopdeedoos than us.)
We can get Pennington/Mcnabb or possibly Plummer if he wanted to come out of retirement for MN
::)
But lets say we do get Pennington who is nice and accurate and would fit our scheme well I think.
Then we could use the first and third picks we still have to address the WR, DE, RT/RG situation.

Once again, please don't be happy giving up a first and a third pick for a QB when there will be viable options on the market that don't cost that.
And don't get me wrong, if Derek Anderson was a unrestricted free agent he'd be on the top of the list, but things being how they are don't get worked up over the Cleveland Browns.

I hear ya and briefly mentioned draft picks in the thread.

I believe that because we have done so well in the previous two drafts, we are sitting pretty good going into the 2008 draft and do have the latitude to give up a pick or two if necessary.

Additionally, we do already have an extra pick cause our front office seems to know how to work the draft for extra picks (i.e. Rice deal). I don't think we will mortgage the bank, so to speak, with giving up 2 picks for the kid if he he is available.

Long story short, with what we have now (Player wise) and what we can do in the FA market, doesn't it make sense to go after a DE and WR in the FA market, make sure we have a good QB that will be here for awhile and then draft depth at the positions you just mentioned.


I could definitely see going after WR/DE in the free agency but I just don't know if the Vikes are going to go about it that way.
The Vikings like most Minnesota team sometimes balk at Free Agency.
But with the QB we're getting out of everybody on the Merry go round of QBs I think they will pursue a win now option at QB this off season, but not be willing to put money behind a legitimate threat at WR/DE/RG/RT in which case I would much rather us draft quality players in the draft and hope they can contribute enough around our new QB to make us a playoff team next year, and possibly a contender the year after.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 01:02 PM
"Schutz" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Schutz" wrote:


Top to bottom order.

1. Chad Pennington
2. Donavon Mcnabb
3. Jake Plummer

I will not put Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson on a list of QB's the Vikes should get.
I refuse.
I will not see this team give up a 1st and 3rd pick it will require to get them when we could easily pursue and get one of the first two people on my list (not to mention Pennington probably is going to look for a smaller market that doesn't include one of the big three cities, because the fans are bigger whoopdeedoos than us.)
We can get Pennington/Mcnabb or possibly Plummer if he wanted to come out of retirement for MN
::)
But lets say we do get Pennington who is nice and accurate and would fit our scheme well I think.
Then we could use the first and third picks we still have to address the WR, DE, RT/RG situation.

Once again, please don't be happy giving up a first and a third pick for a QB when there will be viable options on the market that don't cost that.
And don't get me wrong, if Derek Anderson was a unrestricted free agent he'd be on the top of the list, but things being how they are don't get worked up over the Cleveland Browns.

I hear ya and briefly mentioned draft picks in the thread.

I believe that because we have done so well in the previous two drafts, we are sitting pretty good going into the 2008 draft and do have the latitude to give up a pick or two if necessary.

Additionally, we do already have an extra pick cause our front office seems to know how to work the draft for extra picks (i.e. Rice deal). I don't think we will mortgage the bank, so to speak, with giving up 2 picks for the kid if he he is available.

Long story short, with what we have now (Player wise) and what we can do in the FA market, doesn't it make sense to go after a DE and WR in the FA market, make sure we have a good QB that will be here for awhile and then draft depth at the positions you just mentioned.


I could definitely see going after WR/DE in the free agency but I just don't know if the Vikes are going to go about it that way.
The Vikings like most Minnesota team sometimes balk at Free Agency.
But with the QB we're getting out of everybody on the Merry go round of QBs I think they will pursue a win now option at QB this off season, but not be willing to put money behind a legitimate threat at WR/DE/RG/RT in which case I would much rather us draft quality players in the draft and hope they can contribute enough around our new QB to make us a playoff team next year, and possibly a contender the year after.


Good stuff.
Keep it in mind.
I feel at least 2 more threads coming your way (WR, DE, OL solutions
;D)

Back on topic.


I added both active QB's, however, because of the limitation on QB's that are on active rosters, I will leave Plummer out.

Again, nice input my friend.
;D

pack93z
11-07-2007, 01:04 PM
I vote Rex Grossman, LOL.. just a bit of humor.. have a great day boys and girls.. gotta run.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 01:06 PM
"pack93z" wrote:


I vote Rex Grossman, LOL.. just a bit of humor.. have a great day boys and girls.. gotta run.

You were on my list of good guys.
You just dropped off that list my friend.
;D

COJOMAY
11-07-2007, 01:35 PM
Some discussion about the top College QB. Looks like Dixon (Oregon) is the top college QB now. And he deserves it because he can move the ball with his feet and with his arm.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 01:41 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


Some discussion about the top College QB. Looks like Dixon (Oregon) is the top college QB now. And he deserves it because he can move the ball with his feet and with his arm.

I have heard that he is good. Haven't really done to much digging into the draft yet, however, I like the kid out of Mich as well.

I am sure someone will start a thread as we get closer to the draft and his name will get alot of discussion.

However, trying to keep this thread just on a VET that could be a starter.
Rationale is that I don't think the staff, or the fans, for that matter want to go through the growing pains of another rook.

Schutz
11-07-2007, 01:53 PM
Hey we could always resign Dante and Randy in the coming years.......................... ;D

PurplePowerPunch
11-07-2007, 01:57 PM
"pixie" wrote:


I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.



Come on now. Pennington blows, and u know that!

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 02:01 PM
"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


"pixie" wrote:


I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.



Come on now. Pennington blows, and u know that!

So far everyone has made a pretty good case for thier argument/recommendation.

Can you be a little more specific/provide extra details and reasing along with your input.
::)

Mr-holland
11-07-2007, 02:01 PM
Mar, absolutely a great post, it truly is.

If you'd ask me i would go with Pennington. why?
he's a proven Vet with a not to strong arm IMO and would be a good fit in the WCO
of all those qb's you have posted the smartest would be to get somebody from the Bucs for cheap.

anyway i'm really interested in our search for a veteran Qb which i'm sure we'll be in the running for.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 02:04 PM
"Mr-holland" wrote:


Mar, absolutely a great post, it truly is.

If you'd ask me i would go with Pennington. why?
he's a proven Vet with a not to strong arm IMO and would be a good fit in the WCO
of all those qb's you have posted the smartest would be to get somebody from the Bucs for cheap.

anyway i'm really interested in our search for a veteran Qb which i'm sure we'll be in the running for.

Thanks Mr. H.


Good stuff.

Evidently I missed out on assessing Chad.
Seems people have a higher opinion of him than I.

jmcdon00
11-07-2007, 02:25 PM
I would love to get McNabb, he has some injury concerns but we would likely still have Tjack as the back up(and eventual starter). I think that when he is healthy he has been a top 5 qb, he really hasn't had too many weapons to work with lately. Plus he is very familiar with the style offense that we run.
I really have no interest in Pennington or Plummer. Plummer is retired and wasn't that good when he was playing(although if you got him as an unrestricted free agent he might be a decent backup). I think Pennington is just a bad NFL quarterback, I would rather have Brad Johnson.
I would be willing to give up a 1st and 3rd for Anderson because he has proved to me that he is a very good young QB with great leadership skills. He pretty much single handledly turned the browns franchise around. I wouldn't be suprised if they kept him and looked to deal Quinn. Just guessing on that one.
I have definetly not given up on Tjack. Still I think they need to bring someone in next year so Tjack has another year to learn, but the team can still be competetive. He will probably still end up playing in a couple of games.

NordicNed
11-07-2007, 02:33 PM
Bring PEP back.....LOL

::)

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 02:36 PM
"jmcdon00" wrote:


I would love to get McNabb, he has some injury concerns but we would likely still have Tjack as the back up(and eventual starter). I think that when he is healthy he has been a top 5 qb, he really hasn't had too many weapons to work with lately. Plus he is very familiar with the style offense that we run.
I really have no interest in Pennington or Plummer. Plummer is retired and wasn't that good when he was playing(although if you got him as an unrestricted free agent he might be a decent backup). I think Pennington is just a bad NFL quarterback, I would rather have Brad Johnson.
I would be willing to give up a 1st and 3rd for Anderson because he has proved to me that he is a very good young QB with great leadership skills. He pretty much single handledly turned the browns franchise around. I wouldn't be suprised if they kept him and looked to deal Quinn. Just guessing on that one.
I have definetly not given up on Tjack. Still I think they need to bring someone in next year so Tjack has another year to learn, but the team can still be competetive. He will probably still end up playing in a couple of games.

I am a little more receptive to Pennington after some of the arguments provided.


Plummer is automatically out for this discussion as he is not on a active roster.
I still think that whol deal was pretty strange the way Chucky went after him even though Plummer had no intention of playing for TB.

I'm not as high on McNabb as most would think, however, he has some great attributes that would fit us well.
If we could keep him healthy and change his mindset of throw first that is a staple of the Eagles org then I would think he coud work out.

I agree, the Browns would be insane to let Anderson go, however, they do struggle with the run (RB and OL) and seem to be a couple of players away from being really good. Throw in the fact that there will be the contingent (mostly ownership) that will want to see Quinn do something sooner rather than later and I think you have the makings of a org that might want a few extra picks to help in other areas as well as opening up a avenue to see Quinn play.

Remember, most fans liked what they saw from him during pre-season.
I am sure the coaching staff wasn't quite sold on his performance based on who he was up against.
;D

I as well have not totally given up on TJ but his injury issues really worry when it comes to his abilities to be a full time starting QB.

Anyway, good stuff my friend.
;D

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 02:36 PM
"NordicNed" wrote:




Bring PEP back.....LOL

::)

Come on my friend.
:o
;D

Zeus
11-07-2007, 02:37 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


I would love to get McNabb, he has some injury concerns but we would likely still have Tjack as the back up(and eventual starter). I think that when he is healthy he has been a top 5 qb, he really hasn't had too many weapons to work with lately. Plus he is very familiar with the style offense that we run.
I really have no interest in Pennington or Plummer. Plummer is retired and wasn't that good when he was playing(although if you got him as an unrestricted free agent he might be a decent backup). I think Pennington is just a bad NFL quarterback, I would rather have Brad Johnson.
I would be willing to give up a 1st and 3rd for Anderson because he has proved to me that he is a very good young QB with great leadership skills. He pretty much single handledly turned the browns franchise around. I wouldn't be suprised if they kept him and looked to deal Quinn. Just guessing on that one.
I have definetly not given up on Tjack. Still I think they need to bring someone in next year so Tjack has another year to learn, but the team can still be competetive. He will probably still end up playing in a couple of games.


I am a little more receptive to Pennington after some of the arguments provided.



At this time, Chad Pennington is not available.


Stick with reality.

=Z=

tastywaves
11-07-2007, 02:41 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


a.
Anderson.
High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
b1.
Pennington.
I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
b2.
McNabb.
Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
c.
Nall.
Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
Still an interesting candidate.
d.
Gradkowski.
Not a bad candidate.
TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
e. Wallace.
Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.

I throw it out there for anyone that knows of another option (Please give rationale and keep it to guys that are on teams right now.
No washed up has beens and no collegiate players.)



Why are you putting QBs on the list who aren't actually going to be free agents?
The discussion should be based in reality, at this point, since there is so much that is unknown at halfway through the 2007 season.

http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=


If you look at the actual UFA's, it is a pretty dismal list, which is to be expected.
Thats why you see a lot of franchises give up a lot to land a guy who is sitting at #2 on somebody elses roster.
If MN goes out to try and land a starting veteran qb, there will need to be some deal making going on.
And it will probably be fairly painful.
If a guy like Derek Anderson or McNabb is possible, then a lot of our personnel become fair trade bait IMO.
Of course we know money is not an object to Zygi, so a big contract shouldn't get in the way with our big cap space.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 02:41 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


I would love to get McNabb, he has some injury concerns but we would likely still have Tjack as the back up(and eventual starter). I think that when he is healthy he has been a top 5 qb, he really hasn't had too many weapons to work with lately. Plus he is very familiar with the style offense that we run.
I really have no interest in Pennington or Plummer. Plummer is retired and wasn't that good when he was playing(although if you got him as an unrestricted free agent he might be a decent backup). I think Pennington is just a bad NFL quarterback, I would rather have Brad Johnson.
I would be willing to give up a 1st and 3rd for Anderson because he has proved to me that he is a very good young QB with great leadership skills. He pretty much single handledly turned the browns franchise around. I wouldn't be suprised if they kept him and looked to deal Quinn. Just guessing on that one.
I have definetly not given up on Tjack. Still I think they need to bring someone in next year so Tjack has another year to learn, but the team can still be competetive. He will probably still end up playing in a couple of games.


I am a little more receptive to Pennington after some of the arguments provided.



At this time, Chad Pennington is not available.


Stick with reality.

=Z=

One of the assumptions is that to get someone that is a worthwhile starter, we would have to work a deal with a team for someone that isn't avail.

To my knowledge, everyone I put in the list as options are still under contracts with thier teams.

Anderson is the only one who has a status (RFA) that I am aware of.

Zeus
11-07-2007, 02:42 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


I would love to get McNabb, he has some injury concerns but we would likely still have Tjack as the back up(and eventual starter). I think that when he is healthy he has been a top 5 qb, he really hasn't had too many weapons to work with lately. Plus he is very familiar with the style offense that we run.
I really have no interest in Pennington or Plummer. Plummer is retired and wasn't that good when he was playing(although if you got him as an unrestricted free agent he might be a decent backup). I think Pennington is just a bad NFL quarterback, I would rather have Brad Johnson.
I would be willing to give up a 1st and 3rd for Anderson because he has proved to me that he is a very good young QB with great leadership skills. He pretty much single handledly turned the browns franchise around. I wouldn't be suprised if they kept him and looked to deal Quinn. Just guessing on that one.
I have definetly not given up on Tjack. Still I think they need to bring someone in next year so Tjack has another year to learn, but the team can still be competetive. He will probably still end up playing in a couple of games.


I am a little more receptive to Pennington after some of the arguments provided.



At this time, Chad Pennington is not available.


Stick with reality.


One of the assumptions is that to get someone that is a worthwhile starter, we would have to work a deal with a team for someone that isn't avail.

To my knowledge, everyone I put in the list as options are still under contracts with thier teams.

Anderson is the only one who has a status (RFA) that I am aware of.


Go back a page - I posted the list of FA QBs.

=Z=

tgorsegner
11-07-2007, 02:43 PM
Lets see what happens. If brooks has a successful rest of the year, there may be no need to obtain another QB. He does fit the criteria. Otherwise, I'm very much against McBadd, He's hurt alot and on the downside of his career. Pennington is also eliminated for the same reason, although i like him more. Losman or Wallace sound the best to me. I think the asking price for D. Anderson will be much higher after this year.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 02:48 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"jmcdon00" wrote:


I would love to get McNabb, he has some injury concerns but we would likely still have Tjack as the back up(and eventual starter). I think that when he is healthy he has been a top 5 qb, he really hasn't had too many weapons to work with lately. Plus he is very familiar with the style offense that we run.
I really have no interest in Pennington or Plummer. Plummer is retired and wasn't that good when he was playing(although if you got him as an unrestricted free agent he might be a decent backup). I think Pennington is just a bad NFL quarterback, I would rather have Brad Johnson.
I would be willing to give up a 1st and 3rd for Anderson because he has proved to me that he is a very good young QB with great leadership skills. He pretty much single handledly turned the browns franchise around. I wouldn't be suprised if they kept him and looked to deal Quinn. Just guessing on that one.
I have definetly not given up on Tjack. Still I think they need to bring someone in next year so Tjack has another year to learn, but the team can still be competetive. He will probably still end up playing in a couple of games.


I am a little more receptive to Pennington after some of the arguments provided.



At this time, Chad Pennington is not available.


Stick with reality.


One of the assumptions is that to get someone that is a worthwhile starter, we would have to work a deal with a team for someone that isn't avail.

To my knowledge, everyone I put in the list as options are still under contracts with thier teams.

Anderson is the only one who has a status (RFA) that I am aware of.


Go back a page - I posted the list of FA QBs.

=Z=

I saw that, however, I just don't think that any of them would be a improvement over what we have now with the exception of McNown (I mentioned) and possibly Jim Sorgi.

Again, my assumption is that we will have to open the pocket book or trade picks if we want someone that is a viable option at starter.

Zeus
11-07-2007, 02:49 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Again, my assumption is that we will have to open the pocket book or trade picks if we want someone that is a viable option at starter.


So, you've given up on TJack?

=Z=

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 02:50 PM
"tastywaves" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


a.
Anderson.
High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
b1.
Pennington.
I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
b2.
McNabb.
Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
c.
Nall.
Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
Still an interesting candidate.
d.
Gradkowski.
Not a bad candidate.
TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
e. Wallace.
Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.

I throw it out there for anyone that knows of another option (Please give rationale and keep it to guys that are on teams right now.
No washed up has beens and no collegiate players.)



Why are you putting QBs on the list who aren't actually going to be free agents?
The discussion should be based in reality, at this point, since there is so much that is unknown at halfway through the 2007 season.

http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=


If you look at the actual UFA's, it is a pretty dismal list, which is to be expected.
Thats why you see a lot of franchises give up a lot to land a guy who is sitting at #2 on somebody elses roster.
If MN goes out to try and land a starting veteran qb, there will need to be some deal making going on.
And it will probably be fairly painful.
If a guy like Derek Anderson or McNabb is possible, then a lot of our personnel become fair trade bait IMO.
Of course we know money is not an object to Zygi, so a big contract shouldn't get in the way with our big cap space.

Exactly my friend, and that is the prime point of the whole post.

Thier is a serious problem when it comes to quality FA QB's that will be avail next year.


If this staff is gonna get someone of quality they will have to work with another organization to get the guy(s) they target.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 02:53 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Again, my assumption is that we will have to open the pocket book or trade picks if we want someone that is a viable option at starter.


So, you've given up on TJack?

=Z=

Good question my friend.
To tell you the truth, I haven't totally.


I am trying to look into the future (hard for me) and see what our QB status will be like next year.

His injury issues (probably being a bit overblown) are starting to worry me a bit.
It is not only limiting his development this year but possibly in the future as well.

mountainviking
11-07-2007, 02:56 PM
Funny thing Marrdro...I have this link open cuz I was scanning for an option earlier :)

http://www.nfl.com/players/search?category=position&filter=quarterback&conferenceAbbr=null&playerType=current&conference=ALL

And, the pickings aren't real good.
You are right about the QB problem, and the NFL folks have even been talking about it.
Testeverde, Bouman, Detmer, Rattay coming out of other jobs for emergency service?
Wow.
The last I heard, there had already been 50 different starting QBs in the league this year.

I'm seriously doubting the Browns want to jump ship to Quinn at this point.
So I'm Really not thinking D. Anderson is going to be an option this year.
And, I'd rather not give up our first, which will most likely be in the top 15...and that is being optimistic;)
But, perhaps, if they would for our 2nd and one of our 3rds...nah, won't happen.

Pennington has the accuracy and attitude, but the injury concern makes me think we'd be back to rotating him, TJack, and whoever else we have in and out again next year...unless the light suddenly clicks for TJ, that would be bad.

If they cut McNabb, sure.
And, get another young stud to train.
But, I wouldn't give a whole lot for him either with his inconsistency in the Offense he knows this year and the injury concerns (see Pennington.)

Childress and Daunte would both have some serious crow to eat before that happened...LOL
:D

I kind of like Billy Volek...looks like he's backing up Rivers now.
Career comp %60.3 but more importantly, 26TD/13ints!!

My guess right now for tops????
Well, lets start BB a week or two and see if he can do better, just so we know where all of our current three firmly (or more likely shaky) stand...then:
1.
Call Plummer.
I've seen him play a bunch, and am not stoked about him being tops but, I think thats where we're at...
1a. Maybe, eventually, ARI wants to use Leinert...could we get Warner for a third???
2.
Offer San Diego Holcomb or BB and a late pick for Volek.
3.
Maybe BUF would bite on say, EJames and a mid for Losman?
They might like having two, too...and I think they have DLineman they like, they're just all injured right now.

And, either way, draft another project...or, if they really think highly of Thigpen, offer KC a late pick to get him back (7?).
Hopefully TJack and QBX develop nicely and pay dividends down the road!!

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 03:01 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:


Funny thing Marrdro...I have this link open cuz I was scanning for an option earlier :)

http://www.nfl.com/players/search?category=position&filter=quarterback&conferenceAbbr=null&playerType=current&conference=ALL

And, the pickings aren't real good.
You are right about the QB problem, and the NFL folks have even been talking about it.
Testeverde, Bouman, Detmer, Rattay coming out of other jobs for emergency service?
Wow.
The last I heard, there had already been 50 different starting QBs in the league this year.

I'm seriously doubting the Browns want to jump ship to Quinn at this point.
So I'm Really not thinking D. Anderson is going to be an option this year.
And, I'd rather not give up our first, which will most likely be in the top 15...and that is being optimistic;)
But, perhaps, if they would for our 2nd and one of our 3rds...nah, won't happen.

Pennington has the accuracy and attitude, but the injury concern makes me think we'd be back to rotating him, TJack, and whoever else we have in and out again next year...unless the light suddenly clicks for TJ, that would be bad.

If they cut McNabb, sure.
And, get another young stud to train.
But, I wouldn't give a whole lot for him either with his inconsistency in the Offense he knows this year and the injury concerns (see Pennington.)

Childress and Daunte would both have some serious crow to eat before that happened...LOL
:D

I kind of like Billy Volek...looks like he's backing up Rivers now.
Career comp %60.3 but more importantly, 26TD/13ints!!

My guess right now for tops????
Well, lets start BB a week or two and see if he can do better, just so we know where all of our current three firmly (or more likely shaky) stand...then:
1.
Call Plummer.
I've seen him play a bunch, and am not stoked about him being tops but, I think thats where we're at...
1a. Maybe, eventually, ARI wants to use Leinert...could we get Warner for a third???
2.
Offer San Diego Holcomb or BB and a late pick for Volek.
3.
Maybe BUF would bite on say, EJames and a mid for Losman?
They might like having two, too...and I think they have DLineman they like, they're just all injured right now.

And, either way, draft another project...or, if they really think highly of Thigpen, offer KC a late pick to get him back (7?).
Hopefully TJack and QBX develop nicely and pay dividends down the road!!

Exellent post my friend.

I am not totally off Plummer, again, I just left him off cause he wasn't on a roster.
Additionally, I do think he is a bit careless with the ball.
Maybe in the right system as he didn't do to bad in Denver.

Never thought of Volek.
Very nice.
Need to do some more digging on him.

I also read someplace were the new staff didn't like Lienart.
Thought that was a bit out of the world of reality.
Wonder if they would let him go.
I kindof doubt it though.
Nice candidate though.

I hear ya on Anderson, but that doesn't mean this staff shouldn't try.


Heck who was Anderson before the Browns started him? Might be another nugget out there like that that we don't know about.

;D

COJOMAY
11-07-2007, 03:02 PM
My guess right now for tops?Huh
Well, lets start BB a week or two and see if he can do better, just so we know where all of our current three firmly (or more likely shaky) stand...

My guess is we'll be starting TJ next week much to my displeasure right now. I'd rather give BB a fair chance.

Marrdro
11-07-2007, 03:07 PM
I hate to start a thread and leave, however, I have Thur/Fri off to try to whack Bambi.

Very few of have tried to side track the thread and I thank you for that.

So far some very good inputs.
Keep them coming.

I look forward to reading other solutions upon my return.
;D

jkjuggalo
11-07-2007, 03:09 PM
Of the possible available QB's next year, this is who I like:

1.
McNabb
2.
Simms
3.
Pennington
4.
JP Losman
5.
Anderson

I'd be OK with any one of those guys coming in to COMPETE for a job.
I also would like to see one of our first day picks used on a QB.
That would leave us with a. A seasoned veteran b. TJack
c. Rookie
d. Holcomb or Bollinger.
Suddenly our QB situation does not look so bleak.


Next year we start whoever "gives us the best chance to win."

El Vikingo
11-07-2007, 03:26 PM
Very nice effort Marrdro, interesting stuff.

1.What I think wil happen.

Chilly and his stuff will continue guiding the Vikes in 08 ,seeing the previous year adquisitions and the way they focus things,I don´t think they gonna break the market with their moves ,I think they are gonna push hard for Mcnabb,solid Qb,used to WCO and well known by our coach,will also push for a esperienced Wr in the FAgents market offering him a very good contract with the salary space we have,Andre Davis(Texans ) or Bryant Johnson (Cardinals,who is not seeing too much playing time cause of the great WR corp Arizona has....)

In the draf they ll pick a DL and a Wr with our 2 first picks,in that order ,next rounds they will seek a Qb(there are a bunch this year...) cause the faith Chilly had in the young Jedi has decreased ,this Qb and TJ would take some learns from Mcnabb the 2 or 3 years he could be our starter...

2.What I d like to happen.

First of all I d give anything for Derek Anderson ,he could lead us to some serious playoff action the very next year ,the man has good and fast arms,He is 6-5 ,24 years old(young with many many years of future but with 3 years of experience in the league) ,I think is a Top 5 Qb rite now in the league,with the OL we have ,Rice and Davis(for example)as Wr and AD in the back,this off. would
kick asses.Besides the adquisition of Anderson would bring more expectatives to Minny ,no black-outs,new stadium ,etc

The bad part,the Browns ,If they wanna speak with us,will demand 1,2 and 3 round picks for Anderson,they know what they have with Anderson and how we need a guy like him in Purple,the good part is Brady Quinn ,they wanna develop this guy and have faith in him perhaps leaving a door opened for Anderson.

Another important factor is the way the Browns ends this season,If they don´t clinch playoffs(I pray for it ),they would probably make up their minds and start negociating with us,time will tell ,but I d give my 3 first round picks for him,sadly I don´t think this happen seeing our conservative managment.

Derek Anderson apart,I would push hard for a FA WR,like Andre Davis ,we have plenty of cap
for him,he could be our starter and help our dear Rice in learning some,this would be for me,our 2 starter at
receiver nex year.

With the picks we still have ,4 ,5 and 6 I would add some D and O lineman ,and another Receiver .

That is what I think.

http://www.salem-news.com/spimg/september172007/osu-qb.jpg


He would look like so
fine in Purple!!!!!!!!

Mr-holland
11-07-2007, 03:46 PM
You guys know what the problem is, nobody wants to give much, not risking your 1st round pick.
if you want a good QB who has proven himself and seems to fit the team it's better to risk it, we desperately need a Qb for the future who can fulfill the #1 slot and learn TJ for instance the ropes, and is that McNabb, Pennington or any other Qb so be it.

pixie
11-07-2007, 04:02 PM
"Mr-holland" wrote:


You guys know what the problem is, nobody wants to give much, not risking your 1st round pick.
if you want a good QB who has proven himself and seems to fit the team it's better to risk it, we desperately need a Qb for the future who can fulfill the #1 slot and learn TJ for instance the ropes, and is that McNabb, Pennington or any other Qb so be it.



I completely agree with you.
Right now we are ripe for a quarterback.
I have not given up on TJack at all, but I also do not think he is ready for the NFL.
However, with the talent we have that is proven and emerging (especially Rice) it is a perfect time to sacrifice a pick for a potential talent in lieu of a proven talent, whoever that is.
That way we can take advantage of our offense/defense and truly make a charge for the top.
Otherwise I fear we will waste the talent we have now and become off balance, like we have so many times in the past... either a stellar offense with no defense or vice versa.

El Vikingo
11-07-2007, 04:23 PM
"pixie" wrote:


"Mr-holland" wrote:


You guys know what the problem is, nobody wants to give much, not risking your 1st round pick.
if you want a good QB who has proven himself and seems to fit the team it's better to risk it, we desperately need a Qb for the future who can fulfill the #1 slot and learn TJ for instance the ropes, and is that McNabb, Pennington or any other Qb so be it.



I completely agree with you.
Right now we are ripe for a quarterback.
I have not given up on TJack at all, but I also do not think he is ready for the NFL.
However, with the talent we have that is proven and emerging (especially Rice) it is a perfect time to sacrifice a pick for a potential talent in lieu of a proven talent, whoever that is.
That way we can take advantage of our offense/defense and truly make a charge for the top.
Otherwise I fear we will waste the talent we have now and become off balance, like we have so many times in the past... either a stellar offense with no defense or vice versa.


That is what I was trying to explain .We have a very solid team which needs 2
or 3 more individuals(and of course learning time) to have succes in the NFL.So that´s the reason why I would give anything away for Andeson(in case Cleveland wanted),we don´t need too much players for being a real contender.

V-Unit
11-07-2007, 08:17 PM
We have been wallowing in uncertainty at QB ever sicne Daunte injured his knee. It MUST stop. That means drafting a QB in the first round.

If Bollinger proves to be a competent QB this year, I say we start next year with him and have the rookie come in next season. In reality that fits all of your criteria Marr. Bollinger is young, cheap (already signed), and knows the system.

However, there is a strong chance that Bollinger proves he is as worthless as our other two current QBs. In that case we have to sign a pathetic QB who will not last. I'm thinking Jake Plummer/Kelly Holcomb. The fans will hate it, but as long as our rookie QB is actually good, it'll be ok.

PurpleGator
11-07-2007, 08:19 PM
I will give 7th pick for Pennington.


Yep... 7th pick in the 7th round.


I think thats fair.

tb04512
11-07-2007, 08:21 PM
"V" wrote:


We have been wallowing in uncertainty at QB ever sicne Daunte injured his knee. It MUST stop. That means drafting a QB in the first round.

If Bollinger proves to be a competent QB this year, I say we start next year with him and have the rookie come in next season. In reality that fits all of your criteria Marr. Bollinger is young, cheap (already signed), and knows the system.

However, there is a strong chance that Bollinger proves he is as worthless as our other two current QBs. In that case we have to sign a pathetic QB who will not last. I'm thinking Jake Plummer/Kelly Holcomb. The fans will hate it, but as long as our rookie QB is actually good, it'll be ok.


drafting a qb in the first doesnt mean they will be good

V-Unit
11-08-2007, 07:19 PM
"tb04512" wrote:


"V" wrote:


We have been wallowing in uncertainty at QB ever sicne Daunte injured his knee. It MUST stop. That means drafting a QB in the first round.

If Bollinger proves to be a competent QB this year, I say we start next year with him and have the rookie come in next season. In reality that fits all of your criteria Marr. Bollinger is young, cheap (already signed), and knows the system.

However, there is a strong chance that Bollinger proves he is as worthless as our other two current QBs. In that case we have to sign a pathetic QB who will not last. I'm thinking Jake Plummer/Kelly Holcomb. The fans will hate it, but as long as our rookie QB is actually good, it'll be ok.


drafting a qb in the first doesnt mean they will be good


Drafting a QB in the first round is the easiest way to get a good, possibly great QB. If you want to settle for an average QB, then fine, hit the FA market.

Our options are:
1. Get an average QB in FA
2. Trade multiple draft picks/players for a good QB
3. Use one draft pick to get an at least average QB

I think getting a rookie in teh first round of the draft is the best option. We could have our franchise QB from years to come, especially considering that all we need is a game manager.

1. Jamarcus Russell
2. Brady Quinn
3. Vince Young
4. Matt Leinart
5. Jay Cutler
6. Alex Smith
7. Aaron Rodgers
8. Jason Campbell
9. Eli Manning
10. Philip Rivers
11. Ben Roethlisberger
12. J.P. Losman
13. Carson Palmer
14. Byron Leftwich
15. Kyle Boller
16. Rex Grossman
17. Joey Harrington
18. Patrick Ramsey
19. Mike Vick
20. Chad Pennington


Not the best list of QB's, but I count 16/20 who would be starting for us right now. If we had a guy like Jason Campbell, or even J.P. Losman I would be content. Is that too much to ask for?

I am not saying we should have gotten these guys instead of who we drafted originally, but just using the past as evidence that we would be getting a solid starting QB, which is exactly what we need.

tb04512
11-08-2007, 07:34 PM
"V" wrote:


"tb04512" wrote:


"V" wrote:


We have been wallowing in uncertainty at QB ever sicne Daunte injured his knee. It MUST stop. That means drafting a QB in the first round.

If Bollinger proves to be a competent QB this year, I say we start next year with him and have the rookie come in next season. In reality that fits all of your criteria Marr. Bollinger is young, cheap (already signed), and knows the system.

However, there is a strong chance that Bollinger proves he is as worthless as our other two current QBs. In that case we have to sign a pathetic QB who will not last. I'm thinking Jake Plummer/Kelly Holcomb. The fans will hate it, but as long as our rookie QB is actually good, it'll be ok.


drafting a qb in the first doesnt mean they will be good


Drafting a QB in the first round is the easiest way to get a good, possibly great QB. If you want to settle for an average QB, then fine, hit the FA market.

Our options are:
1. Get an average QB in FA
2. Trade multiple draft picks/players for a good QB
3. Use one draft pick to get an at least average QB

I think getting a rookie in teh first round of the draft is the best option. We could have our franchise QB from years to come, especially considering that all we need is a game manager.

1. Jamarcus Russell
2. Brady Quinn
3. Vince Young
4. Matt Leinart
5. Jay Cutler
6. Alex Smith
7. Aaron Rodgers
8. Jason Campbell
9. Eli Manning
10. Philip Rivers
11. Ben Roethlisberger
12. J.P. Losman
13. Carson Palmer
14. Byron Leftwich
15. Kyle Boller
16. Rex Grossman
17. Joey Harrington
18. Patrick Ramsey
19. Mike Vick
20. Chad Pennington


Not the best list of QB's, but I count 16/20 who would be starting for us right now. If we had a guy like Jason Campbell, or even J.P. Losman I would be content. Is that too much to ask for?

I am not saying we should have gotten these guys instead of who we drafted originally, but just using the past as evidence that we would be getting a solid starting QB, which is exactly what we need.


not at all, only problem is it takes time, and we dont have a good vet to study under... my wish would be to bring in mcnabb so tj can learn for the next couple years

vikesfargo
11-08-2007, 07:40 PM
Derek Anderson is going to be a superstar by the end of this year. Brady Quinn is the only Browns QB who will be available, and we should pass on that loser.

DaVizzles
11-08-2007, 07:57 PM
"tb04512" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"tb04512" wrote:


"V" wrote:


We have been wallowing in uncertainty at QB ever sicne Daunte injured his knee. It MUST stop. That means drafting a QB in the first round.

If Bollinger proves to be a competent QB this year, I say we start next year with him and have the rookie come in next season. In reality that fits all of your criteria Marr. Bollinger is young, cheap (already signed), and knows the system.

However, there is a strong chance that Bollinger proves he is as worthless as our other two current QBs. In that case we have to sign a pathetic QB who will not last. I'm thinking Jake Plummer/Kelly Holcomb. The fans will hate it, but as long as our rookie QB is actually good, it'll be ok.


drafting a qb in the first doesnt mean they will be good


Drafting a QB in the first round is the easiest way to get a good, possibly great QB. If you want to settle for an average QB, then fine, hit the FA market.

Our options are:
1. Get an average QB in FA
2. Trade multiple draft picks/players for a good QB
3. Use one draft pick to get an at least average QB

I think getting a rookie in teh first round of the draft is the best option. We could have our franchise QB from years to come, especially considering that all we need is a game manager.

1. Jamarcus Russell
2. Brady Quinn
3. Vince Young
4. Matt Leinart
5. Jay Cutler
6. Alex Smith
7. Aaron Rodgers
8. Jason Campbell
9. Eli Manning
10. Philip Rivers
11. Ben Roethlisberger
12. J.P. Losman
13. Carson Palmer
14. Byron Leftwich
15. Kyle Boller
16. Rex Grossman
17. Joey Harrington
18. Patrick Ramsey
19. Mike Vick
20. Chad Pennington


Not the best list of QB's, but I count 16/20 who would be starting for us right now. If we had a guy like Jason Campbell, or even J.P. Losman I would be content. Is that too much to ask for?

I am not saying we should have gotten these guys instead of who we drafted originally, but just using the past as evidence that we would be getting a solid starting QB, which is exactly what we need.


not at all, only problem is it takes time, and we dont have a good vet to study under... my wish would be to bring in mcnabb so tj can learn for the next couple years


That is exactly right tb. We need to get McNabb and keep TJ. Just let McNabb groom TJ for about 3 years or so and also keep TJ just in case McNabb gets injured. I wonder what the asking price is for McNabb?

I would rather get McNabb over Anderson because I think the asking price will be lower.

marstc09
11-08-2007, 08:03 PM
I would like to see McNabb come here.

skum
11-08-2007, 08:04 PM
Ill take McNabb for a secondrounder over a first and third for Anderson. They will tender him with that, He might do a sign&trade like Schaub did, but it will still take at least some kind of a first round pick swap(if we end up with a lower pick that the Browns) and a third rounder, maybe even a 2nd.

Also i think McNabb would be the perfect person to mentor T-Jack.

Big C
11-08-2007, 08:16 PM
I respectfully disagree about McNabb. His recent career has been too flip-flop for my liking. Plus he has pulled the race card a little too often to my liking. Performance wise, I have no facts to backup why we shouldn't bring him in though.

I agree with some posters and say we have Bollinger start because he meets all the specified crieria, has 2 years of experience running this offense, and regardless of what anyone says, has played really well in Minnesota when given the opportunity. Please dump Holcomb and make see what's available in the draft. If a good QB falls to us in the first 3 rounds, take him. Otherwise go after a veteran QB who to play 3rd string.

I am all for developing TJ, but he does NOT look like starting material right now. Not when we're so close to being a play-off calibre team.

tb04512
11-08-2007, 08:25 PM
"Big" wrote:


I respectfully disagree about McNabb. His recent career has been too flip-flop for my liking. Plus he has pulled the race card a little too often to my liking. Performance wise, I have no facts to backup why we shouldn't bring him in though.

I agree with some posters and say we have Bollinger start because he meets all the specified crieria, has 2 years of experience running this offense, and regardless of what anyone says, has played really well in Minnesota when given the opportunity. Please dump Holcomb and make see what's available in the draft. If a good QB falls to us in the first 3 rounds, take him. Otherwise go after a veteran QB who to play 3rd string.

I am all for developing TJ, but he does NOT look like starting material right now. Not when we're so close to being a play-off calibre team.


Bollinger is not the answer nor will he ever be the answer, imo there is no reason why tjack shouldnt finish the year and see what we have going into the offseason, i agree some of mcnabbs comments are shaky but i think that has to do with being in philly, he is unhappy you can see it everytime he talks

V-Unit
11-08-2007, 08:27 PM
Hopefully Bollinger will play well enought to be that veteran, making McNabb/Anderson unneccesary pickups. Then we can go with Bollinger, rookie, and TJ.

Of Course, under that scenario, we are screwed if Bollinger gets injured. McNabb, Bollinger, TJ, may be the better option.

Thus, in the remainder of the season, we need the answer to two questions.

1. Can Bollinger be a solid QB who can manage the game and limit turnovers?
2. Has TJ shown us enough to make us believe he will be good in time? Will he ever get to that point?

If both of these are answered positively, we can sign a vet or draft a rookie.
If both of these are answered negatively, we need to sign a vet and draft a rookie.
Either way, I think that if we take a QB after the first round, it would be a waste.

tb04512
11-08-2007, 08:31 PM
"V" wrote:


Hopefully Bollinger will play well enought to be that veteran, making McNabb/Anderson unneccesary pickups. Then we can go with Bollinger, rookie, and TJ.

Of Course, under that scenario, we are screwed if Bollinger gets injured. McNabb, Bollinger, TJ, may be the better option.

Thus, in the remainder of the season, we need the answer to two questions.

1. Can Bollinger be a solid QB who can manage the game and limit turnovers?
2. Has TJ shown us enough to make us believe he will be good in time? Will he ever get to that point?

If both of these are answered positively, we can sign a vet or draft a rookie.
If both of these are answered negatively, we need to sign a vet and draft a rookie.
Either way, I think that if we take a QB after the first round, it would be a waste.


there are quite a few qbs in this draft though and we will have an earlier 2nd rounder.... honestly brooks hasnt done anything to impress me and i dont think he is the answer to anything

Big C
11-08-2007, 08:35 PM
With the way Peterson, O-Line and Defense is playing right now, we are a descent QB (Bollinger) away from a shot at the playoffs. Are we willing to throw that opportunity away to see if TJ is the QB of the future? I selfishly hope not.

Bollinger has proved to be an extremely capable backup so I think he is locked in for the #2 QB spot next year as well.

Frostbite
11-08-2007, 08:38 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


I've been saying it for a few weeks now, however, I thought I would put a bit of my research in a thread.

Most of you know (who take the time to read my posts) that I believe there is a major issue related to QB talent in the NFL now.
I attribute that to a few things, however, for this discussion, the biggest being the fact that you just can't get through a year with only one guy that can lead the team if you still want to be effective.

With that said, more and more teams are carrying two high priced QB's on thier roster which greatly reduces the availability of a said QB's that can be picked up by other teams or makes the asking price for them just to high.


Going into next year, it would appear that the QB wheel at the Vikes is gonna take another spin.
Let me rationalize this for some of you, who will automatically throw out TJ as an option, with some of my assumptions so that you don't pick the post apart with your perceived facts:

(Were TJ will be by the end of the year) (Remember my assumptions)
a.
It is gonna take at least another year to develop TJ into a viable starter.



1.
Still making bad throws.



2.
Still throwing ball into defenders hands



3.
Still not making reads quickly enough to run the WCO.
b.
TJ might not be a viable starter because of injury concerns. (Quality backup for a game or 2)



1. Groin



2. Finger



3. Concussion
c.
We need a Vet in that can grow with/lead this team.Again, whether TJ will ever be a QB in the NFL is not my discussion point so lets not dwell on that.
Suffice it to say, however, for this thread, lets make it a fact that he won't be available/viable next year as our starter.

Were does that lead us?

IMHO it leads us to the fact that based on what I am seeing this year, we are a QB, WR, and a DE away from being a really good team.
There will be a pleathura of WR's and DE's out there to choose from, especially with the CAP we have avail so that shouldn't be an issue.
QB's are another story.

Again, the state of Vet QB's in the NFL are a huge concern when you start looking at what will be avail in the FA market next year.
IMHO there won't be anything that this organization can just go out and get off the street.


That leaves only one solution.
They will have to broker a deal with a team that has someone sitting on thier roster that can come in and be a quality starter for us.

Quality starter.
What does that mean?
Well for this discussion the following traits/strenghts must come to bear.

(My recipe for a Quality Starting QB)
a.
He has been or is in a WCO scheme.
Although this isn't as huge as some would think, it would help as he transitions into the scheme we run.
b.
He isn't old. I would prefer a 3-5 year vet, could be a backup that is behind a good starter.
c.
He has to have no issue with character. Seems the staff will bend on this a bit.
d. We can get him for no more than 2 picks.
2 solid drafts with the 3rd coming up for depth leaves a bit of wiggle room for spending 2 picks on the right guy.
e.
He doesn't need to be developed.
He can come right in during the offseason (Pre OTA's) and work with the staff leading up to camp.
f. The front office needs to do this as soon as they can, but not right before the season starts.

Lets look at the teams that run a "So Called" WCO now and what they have starting or on the bench.

(Note 1 - IMHO there are two types of WCO schemes being run today.
One (P/R) is a Pass to set up the run style and one is Run (R/P) to set up the pass style)
(Note 2 - IMHO we are a R/P oriented team.
(V along will like that ;D))

a.
Eagles (P/R) - McNabb, Kolb.
I know, I know, the whole Chiller/Eagles connection will come up but lets keep to some intelligent football convo here.
I wouldn't mind McNabb but I think that he might be a bit old for a long term solution.
Might be worth it if we can get him with no picks involved.
We could then use either one of the 1rst or 3rd on another rook to develop.

b. Denver - (R/P) - Cutler, Ramsey.
I think we can rule Cutler out.
Still wish Bryzcheapski and the front office would have given Denver what they wanted for that pick.
You wouldn't have to read this thread then.
;D


Ramsey is interesting to me.
1rst round selection (32nd) by the Skins, 35 TD's with 30 Int's.
Might be a bit to sloppy with the ball for the style we run but it is hard to tell without actually going back and looking at all the situations he was in when they were thrown.
Primary backup to Cutler will probably make the asking price to high.
Long story short, probably not a good option.

c.
GB. (P/R) Favreeeeee, Rodgers.
OK.
I only put this in there so no one would say......Hey you forgot about GB.
Really, do you think I would wast my time even researching the possibility that we would go after one of these or that they would entertain giving us one.

;D Lets move on.

d.
Seattle. (I can't tell what they are now.
When they have a healthy RB they are R/P).
Matt Hasselbeck, Seneca Wallace,
Charlie Frye.
The only one that I think even comes close to meeting our needs would be Wallace.

Matt isn't going anywhere no matter how much we offer and, well Frye is only on this team cause of injury and Cleveland had a better option(s).

Wallace is a 5 year man with some pretty good stuff for the limited time he has seen the field.
My biggest nock on him is he is 5'11" which could be a major issue behind the OL we have.
All of them are pretty tall.
This alone would slow down his read/react time of getting the ball out on the 3 step drops.
Probably not an option for that reason.
Also, Matt has been dinged over the last couple of years so I don't think Seneca is open to go anywere.

e.
Texans.
(P/R).

Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels,
Craig Nall.
Schaub could suck for the rest of the year, if he ever gets healthy and he isn't going anywere cause the Texans have so much invested in him.
Sage is already into his 7th year of his alustrious career with 16 TD/13 Ints.
Not a huge indicator of how well he protects the all/reads defenses without actually going in and looking up the game time situations.
Nall, I couldn't find to much about but he has 4 TD's and 0 Ints in a 6 year career.
Only thing interesting there is he learned behind Lord Favreeeeeee.
Again, kindof interesting.

f.
TB.
(R/P).

Jeff Garcia,
Luke McCown,
Bruce Gradkowski.
McCown = 4 yrs, 4TD's 7 Ints. Pretty much a no go for me based on that and the times I've seen him play. He is a bit mobile and is a tough kid, however, there is nothing else I like.
Gradkowski,
9 TD's/10Int's.
Nice size, mobile but only 2 years.
Might be a bit of a developmental guy.
Rule him out just for that.

g.
Cleveland (P/R). Anderson, Quinn.
Ok, I saved these two for last.
Both know I want Anderson and think the team should not only ask Cleveland if Anderson is available, but they should also give up whatever the asking price is.
Quinn isn't going anywhere for along time and if we could, the price would be way to high IMHO.

With all that said, here is the way I would rank the guys that are out there that might be avail for us to improve the QB position.

a.
Anderson.
High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
b1.
Pennington.
I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
b2.
McNabb.
Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
b3.
Losman.
Another one that I left out.
Added because a poster gave a rationale reason to add him.
c.
Nall.
Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
Still an interesting candidate.
d.
Gradkowski.
Not a bad candidate.
TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
e. Wallace.
Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.

I throw it out there for anyone that knows of another option (Please give rationale and keep it to guys that are on teams right now.
No washed up has beens and no collegiate players.)






Nice post Marrdro....I agree with a lot of this. I am currious about the fact that so many of the QBs you mention as possible candidates are about as well known as our own Brooks Bollinger. My question is this. Is it possible (Even if Unlikely) that a second tier guy could really excell and out perform expectations if given the chance to do so?

I am still at a loss as to why so many fans think Brooks is an inexperienced QB?? He's been in The League and was in the AFC, a much stronger conference over the past 4 years and has seen a lot. As proof...look at the job he's doing currently. I have to believe part of the reason he's doing so well is because he wants to make the most of his chance to show what he can do....as any player relegated to the backup role would want too. The difference is he's actually out performing most expectations.

There were a lot of virtually unknown performers on your QB list. What could some of them possible do given the chance?? My point is this....We may indeed need a Veteran name brought into Minnesota, but if you're proposing somebody like a Cutler or Garcia I say why?? At this point Bollinger is playing as good as some of these guys currently. Maybe all Brooks really needed was a real shot with a First String Offense to wake him up?

i know players are constantly evaluated by coaches but perhaps someone missed a key issue when they made Brooks the Number 3 QB. He's at least better than Holcomb and should be given a chance to start until he shows he can't cut it....which so far I have not seen. He's reading defenses well....He's making smart decisions with the ball....He's cool in the pocket and can take a hit and stay in the game. He also is very accurate and has a decent arm. The only thing he doesn't have is a well known name....Neither do half the guys on your list.


Cheers!

DaVizzles
11-08-2007, 08:41 PM
"tb04512" wrote:


"V" wrote:


Hopefully Bollinger will play well enought to be that veteran, making McNabb/Anderson unneccesary pickups. Then we can go with Bollinger, rookie, and TJ.

Of Course, under that scenario, we are screwed if Bollinger gets injured. McNabb, Bollinger, TJ, may be the better option.

Thus, in the remainder of the season, we need the answer to two questions.

1. Can Bollinger be a solid QB who can manage the game and limit turnovers?
2. Has TJ shown us enough to make us believe he will be good in time? Will he ever get to that point?

If both of these are answered positively, we can sign a vet or draft a rookie.
If both of these are answered negatively, we need to sign a vet and draft a rookie.
Either way, I think that if we take a QB after the first round, it would be a waste.


there are quite a few qbs in this draft though and we will have an earlier 2nd rounder.... honestly brooks hasnt done anything to impress me and i dont think he is the answer to anything


I dont see why we would draft a QB this year. Maybe in a couple years if it turns out TJ is not the future. What I would do is get McNabb, keep TJ here to be groomed for a couple of years and keep Bollinger just in case either get hurt we could have a capable QB.

As of this season, I think we should start Bollinger. I am not giving up on T-Jack I just think Bollinger gives us the best chance to win right NOW. T-Jack is not ready to be a starter this season and be able to lead us to the playoffs. Im not saying he wont be that guy in a couple of years though.

DaVizzles
11-08-2007, 08:53 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


I've been saying it for a few weeks now, however, I thought I would put a bit of my research in a thread.

Most of you know (who take the time to read my posts) that I believe there is a major issue related to QB talent in the NFL now.
I attribute that to a few things, however, for this discussion, the biggest being the fact that you just can't get through a year with only one guy that can lead the team if you still want to be effective.

With that said, more and more teams are carrying two high priced QB's on thier roster which greatly reduces the availability of a said QB's that can be picked up by other teams or makes the asking price for them just to high.


Going into next year, it would appear that the QB wheel at the Vikes is gonna take another spin.
Let me rationalize this for some of you, who will automatically throw out TJ as an option, with some of my assumptions so that you don't pick the post apart with your perceived facts:

(Were TJ will be by the end of the year) (Remember my assumptions)
a.
It is gonna take at least another year to develop TJ into a viable starter.



1.
Still making bad throws.



2.
Still throwing ball into defenders hands



3.
Still not making reads quickly enough to run the WCO.
b.
TJ might not be a viable starter because of injury concerns. (Quality backup for a game or 2)



1. Groin



2. Finger



3. Concussion
c.
We need a Vet in that can grow with/lead this team.

Again, whether TJ will ever be a QB in the NFL is not my discussion point so lets not dwell on that.
Suffice it to say, however, for this thread, lets make it a fact that he won't be available/viable next year as our starter.

Were does that lead us?

IMHO it leads us to the fact that based on what I am seeing this year, we are a QB, WR, and a DE away from being a really good team.
There will be a pleathura of WR's and DE's out there to choose from, especially with the CAP we have avail so that shouldn't be an issue.
QB's are another story.

Again, the state of Vet QB's in the NFL are a huge concern when you start looking at what will be avail in the FA market next year.
IMHO there won't be anything that this organization can just go out and get off the street.


That leaves only one solution.
They will have to broker a deal with a team that has someone sitting on thier roster that can come in and be a quality starter for us.

Quality starter.
What does that mean?
Well for this discussion the following traits/strenghts must come to bear.

(My recipe for a Quality Starting QB)
a.
He has been or is in a WCO scheme.
Although this isn't as huge as some would think, it would help as he transitions into the scheme we run.
b.
He isn't old. I would prefer a 3-5 year vet, could be a backup that is behind a good starter.
c.
He has to have no issue with character. Seems the staff will bend on this a bit.
d. We can get him for no more than 2 picks.
2 solid drafts with the 3rd coming up for depth leaves a bit of wiggle room for spending 2 picks on the right guy.
e.
He doesn't need to be developed.
He can come right in during the offseason (Pre OTA's) and work with the staff leading up to camp.
f. The front office needs to do this as soon as they can, but not right before the season starts.

Lets look at the teams that run a "So Called" WCO now and what they have starting or on the bench.

(Note 1 - IMHO there are two types of WCO schemes being run today.
One (P/R) is a Pass to set up the run style and one is Run (R/P) to set up the pass style)
(Note 2 - IMHO we are a R/P oriented team.
(V along will like that ;D))

a.
Eagles (P/R) - McNabb, Kolb.
I know, I know, the whole Chiller/Eagles connection will come up but lets keep to some intelligent football convo here.
I wouldn't mind McNabb but I think that he might be a bit old for a long term solution.
Might be worth it if we can get him with no picks involved.
We could then use either one of the 1rst or 3rd on another rook to develop.

b. Denver - (R/P) - Cutler, Ramsey.
I think we can rule Cutler out.
Still wish Bryzcheapski and the front office would have given Denver what they wanted for that pick.
You wouldn't have to read this thread then.
;D


Ramsey is interesting to me.
1rst round selection (32nd) by the Skins, 35 TD's with 30 Int's.
Might be a bit to sloppy with the ball for the style we run but it is hard to tell without actually going back and looking at all the situations he was in when they were thrown.
Primary backup to Cutler will probably make the asking price to high.
Long story short, probably not a good option.

c.
GB. (P/R) Favreeeeee, Rodgers.
OK.
I only put this in there so no one would say......Hey you forgot about GB.
Really, do you think I would wast my time even researching the possibility that we would go after one of these or that they would entertain giving us one.

;D Lets move on.

d.
Seattle. (I can't tell what they are now.
When they have a healthy RB they are R/P).
Matt Hasselbeck, Seneca Wallace,
Charlie Frye.
The only one that I think even comes close to meeting our needs would be Wallace.

Matt isn't going anywhere no matter how much we offer and, well Frye is only on this team cause of injury and Cleveland had a better option(s).

Wallace is a 5 year man with some pretty good stuff for the limited time he has seen the field.
My biggest nock on him is he is 5'11" which could be a major issue behind the OL we have.
All of them are pretty tall.
This alone would slow down his read/react time of getting the ball out on the 3 step drops.
Probably not an option for that reason.
Also, Matt has been dinged over the last couple of years so I don't think Seneca is open to go anywere.

e.
Texans.
(P/R).

Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels,
Craig Nall.
Schaub could suck for the rest of the year, if he ever gets healthy and he isn't going anywere cause the Texans have so much invested in him.
Sage is already into his 7th year of his alustrious career with 16 TD/13 Ints.
Not a huge indicator of how well he protects the all/reads defenses without actually going in and looking up the game time situations.
Nall, I couldn't find to much about but he has 4 TD's and 0 Ints in a 6 year career.
Only thing interesting there is he learned behind Lord Favreeeeeee.
Again, kindof interesting.

f.
TB.
(R/P).

Jeff Garcia,
Luke McCown,
Bruce Gradkowski.
McCown = 4 yrs, 4TD's 7 Ints. Pretty much a no go for me based on that and the times I've seen him play. He is a bit mobile and is a tough kid, however, there is nothing else I like.
Gradkowski,
9 TD's/10Int's.
Nice size, mobile but only 2 years.
Might be a bit of a developmental guy.
Rule him out just for that.

g.
Cleveland (P/R). Anderson, Quinn.
Ok, I saved these two for last.
Both know I want Anderson and think the team should not only ask Cleveland if Anderson is available, but they should also give up whatever the asking price is.
Quinn isn't going anywhere for along time and if we could, the price would be way to high IMHO.

With all that said, here is the way I would rank the guys that are out there that might be avail for us to improve the QB position.

a.
Anderson.
High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
b1.
Pennington.
I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
b2.
McNabb.
Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
b3.
Losman.
Another one that I left out.
Added because a poster gave a rationale reason to add him.
c.
Nall.
Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
Still an interesting candidate.
d.
Gradkowski.
Not a bad candidate.
TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
e. Wallace.
Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.

I throw it out there for anyone that knows of another option (Please give rationale and keep it to guys that are on teams right now.
No washed up has beens and no collegiate players.)



Real nice post....you sure do put alot of time and effort into your posts..Great Job!

Anyways, out of the QB's you listed their are only about 3 people on that list that would be worth signing to be the starting QB for our team. Those 3 are..... 1)McNabb who I believe would be the best fit and would be the most likely candidate we would get considering he knows the WCO and has a history with Childress. 2)Derek Anderson- I think the asking price is to high if the report is true that they want a 1st and a 3rd. The guy is talented dont get me wrong but just not worth that much. 3)Losman- I really like this kid, I actually was thinking about rating him #2 over Anderson. He has good mobility and has shown improvement the past two years.

Purple Floyd
11-08-2007, 09:55 PM
Mcnabb is not a good fit. He is fine when he wins but when things get tough and people criticize him he either plays the race card or blames others for the problem. He would not be good for the team or the locker room.

If bollinger can come in and be effective, it will mean that the line is so good that we don't need a franchise QB to run the team. He is a career backup and that is all he will ever be.

Schutz
11-08-2007, 10:02 PM
If we can get Mcnabb for a second rounder, I say get him suited up and lets go, not to mention Childress instead of having the "next donovan" would simply have the man himself.
Maybe we'd finally see that Kick #$@ west coast offense.

vikesfargo
11-08-2007, 10:22 PM
McNabb has cracked under the pressure of most of the big games he's played in. While I am a big fan of his, I gotta say that he should not be at the top of our wish list.

The Dropper
11-08-2007, 10:43 PM
"Zeus" wrote:



http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=


Does anyone know much about Jim Sorgi or whether the Colts would part with him? I've never seen him play, but here are his stats from nfl.com: (http://www.nfl.com/players/jimsorgi/profile?id=SOR431260)

Jim Sorgi | #12 | QB
Indianapolis Colts | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5

Weight: 196

Age: 26
Born: 12/3/1980 Fraser , MI
College: Wisconsin
Experience: 4th season
High School: Fraser HS [MI]

Season Team












Passing
























Rushing





Fumbles


















G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2007
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
1 2 50.0 9 4.5 0 0 0 0 62.5







-- -- -- -- -- --
2006
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
2005
Indianapolis Colts
5
0
42 61 68.9 444 7.3 3 1 3 14 99.4







12 1 0.1 0 1 1
2004
Indianapolis Colts
4
0
17 29 58.6 175 6.0 2 0 1 8 99.1








8 -5 -0.6 0 1 0
TOTAL

















60 92 65.2 628 6.8 5 1 4 22 98.5







20 -4 -0.2 0 2 1







He seems to fit what we might be looking for. He's young (26-four years in NFL), for one. He also appears to be pretty competent, though he doesn't have a whole lot of experience. Still, he's been learning behind Peyton freaking Manning, which has to be worth something. And you have to love that almost 70% completion percentage in 2005, even if it is only the equivalent of about one and a half games. On the other hand, he's 6'5" and 196
:o. Guy obviously need to bulk up a bit.

But again, I've never actually seen him play; I'm just going off stats and the fact that he is a backup for one of the best QB's to ever play the game.

DaVizzles
11-08-2007, 10:44 PM
"The" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:



http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=


Does anyone know much about Jim Sorgi or whether the Colts would part with him? I've never seen him play, but here are his stats from nfl.com: (http://www.nfl.com/players/jimsorgi/profile?id=SOR431260)

Jim Sorgi | #12 | QB
Indianapolis Colts | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5

Weight: 196

Age: 26
Born: 12/3/1980 Fraser , MI
College: Wisconsin
Experience: 4th season
High School: Fraser HS [MI]

Season Team












Passing
























Rushing





Fumbles


















G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2007
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
1 2 50.0 9 4.5 0 0 0 0 62.5







-- -- -- -- -- --
2006
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
2005
Indianapolis Colts
5
0
42 61 68.9 444 7.3 3 1 3 14 99.4







12 1 0.1 0 1 1
2004
Indianapolis Colts
4
0
17 29 58.6 175 6.0 2 0 1 8 99.1








8 -5 -0.6 0 1 0
TOTAL

















60 92 65.2 628 6.8 5 1 4 22 98.5







20 -4 -0.2 0 2 1







He seems to fit what we might be looking for. He's young (26-four years in NFL), for one. He also appears to be pretty competent, though he doesn't have a whole lot of experience. Still, he's been learning behind Peyton freaking Manning, which has to be worth something. And you have to love that almost 70% completion percentage in 2005, even if it is only the equivalent of about one and a half games. Finally, he's 6'5" and 196
:o. Guy obviously need to bulk up a bit.

But again, I've never actually seen him play; I'm just going off stats and the fact that he is a backup for one of the best QB's to ever play the game.



All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!

The Dropper
11-08-2007, 10:46 PM
"DaVizzles" wrote:


All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.

HornedHat
11-08-2007, 10:49 PM
Jim Sorgi? What? We can't get one of those plastic QB pieces from the ole electric football game? Just put the little foam ball in his hand and hope it hits a purple guy? Trent Greem might be available.

DaVizzles
11-08-2007, 10:55 PM
"The" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.


Your welcome.

Why would you even want Jim Sorgi?....Do you honestly think he is better then what we have right now? He will never be a starting QB in the NFL and is not the answer to our problems so...

Frostbite
11-08-2007, 11:12 PM
"The" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:



http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=


Does anyone know much about Jim Sorgi or whether the Colts would part with him? I've never seen him play, but here are his stats from nfl.com: (http://www.nfl.com/players/jimsorgi/profile?id=SOR431260)

Jim Sorgi | #12 | QB Indianapolis Colts | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5

Weight: 196

Age: 26
Born: 12/3/1980 Fraser , MI
College: Wisconsin
Experience: 4th season
High School: Fraser HS [MI]

Season Team












Passing
























Rushing





Fumbles


















G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2007
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
1 2 50.0 9 4.5 0 0 0 0 62.5







-- -- -- -- -- --
2006
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
2005
Indianapolis Colts
5
0
42 61 68.9 444 7.3 3 1 3 14 99.4







12 1 0.1 0 1 1
2004
Indianapolis Colts
4
0
17 29 58.6 175 6.0 2 0 1 8 99.1








8 -5 -0.6 0 1 0
TOTAL

















60 92 65.2 628 6.8 5 1 4 22 98.5







20 -4 -0.2 0 2 1







He seems to fit what we might be looking for. He's young (26-four years in NFL), for one. He also appears to be pretty competent, though he doesn't have a whole lot of experience. Still, he's been learning behind Peyton freaking Manning, which has to be worth something. And you have to love that almost 70% completion percentage in 2005, even if it is only the equivalent of about one and a half games. On the other hand, he's 6'5" and 196
:o. Guy obviously need to bulk up a bit.

But again, I've never actually seen him play; I'm just going off stats and the fact that he is a backup for one of the best QB's to ever play the game.




I know you were trying to make a helpful suggestion dropper, so I for one won't try to step on you.....I will ask the question again. If you are going to bring up a guy like Sorgi what's wrong with just keeping Bollinger and working with him next season?? Unless we can really get a TOP NOTCH QB Veteran somewhere (Which isn't likely) we need to think about utilizing the guys we have as best as we can. Even if we draft a Rookie he's most likely going to struggle the first year or two.


Cheers!

DaVizzles
11-08-2007, 11:16 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:



http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=


Does anyone know much about Jim Sorgi or whether the Colts would part with him? I've never seen him play, but here are his stats from nfl.com: (http://www.nfl.com/players/jimsorgi/profile?id=SOR431260)

Jim Sorgi | #12 | QB Indianapolis Colts | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5

Weight: 196

Age: 26
Born: 12/3/1980 Fraser , MI
College: Wisconsin
Experience: 4th season
High School: Fraser HS [MI]

Season Team












Passing
























Rushing





Fumbles


















G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2007
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
1 2 50.0 9 4.5 0 0 0 0 62.5







-- -- -- -- -- --
2006
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
2005
Indianapolis Colts
5
0
42 61 68.9 444 7.3 3 1 3 14 99.4







12 1 0.1 0 1 1
2004
Indianapolis Colts
4
0
17 29 58.6 175 6.0 2 0 1 8 99.1








8 -5 -0.6 0 1 0
TOTAL

















60 92 65.2 628 6.8 5 1 4 22 98.5







20 -4 -0.2 0 2 1







He seems to fit what we might be looking for. He's young (26-four years in NFL), for one. He also appears to be pretty competent, though he doesn't have a whole lot of experience. Still, he's been learning behind Peyton freaking Manning, which has to be worth something. And you have to love that almost 70% completion percentage in 2005, even if it is only the equivalent of about one and a half games. On the other hand, he's 6'5" and 196
:o. Guy obviously need to bulk up a bit.

But again, I've never actually seen him play; I'm just going off stats and the fact that he is a backup for one of the best QB's to ever play the game.




I know you were trying to make a helpful suggestion dropper, so I for one won't try to step on you.....I will ask the question again. If you are going to bring up a guy like Sorgi what's wrong with just keeping Bollinger and working with him next season?? Unless we can really get a TOP NOTCH QB Veteran somewhere (Which isn't likely) we need to think about utilizing the guys we have as best as we can. Even if we draft a Rookie he's most likely going to struggle the first year or two.


Cheers!


I agree with you completely frostbite.

Sorry, Dropper if it sounded like I was ripping on your suggestion. I just don't think he is better then anything we have right now.

tdunc
11-08-2007, 11:22 PM
How about Derek Anderson of the Cleveland browns???

he has a 91 passer rating this year which is decent
17 TD's which is a lot better than any of our QB's
9 INT's but that will only get better as he progresses
He is 6 foot 6 which nice for a Quarterback
and he is only 24

I mean the browns wont keep him and Brady Quinn will they???
If he continues playing at this high of a level i say we give him a chance

Otherwise were back to the drawing board and pick up a quarterback in the draft..

tb04512
11-08-2007, 11:27 PM
^^ would you give up a first and a third for him though?

tdunc
11-08-2007, 11:29 PM
I guess i dont really know

we got a third round pick in the draft last year off a trade
so right now we have 2 3rd round picks
and if we think he can perform at a higher level in the long run then the quarterbacks in the draft then i guess he would be worth it
It all depends on our highest need at the end of the year

right now its looking like a quarterback or wide reciever

V-Unit
11-08-2007, 11:48 PM
You could argue that Bollinger is just as good as Anderson, but hasn't had a chance to start. Bollinger has higher completion %, higher yards per completion, and a better rating. Bollinger at least deserves one start to see how he does. We are looking for a QB who will not be piss poor and lose games for us. If you look at Bollinger's career, he has not been stellar, but he has never been piss poor either. Always average, which is exactly what we need. If he can keep it up this year, I'd be fine with him starting and a rookie backing him up.

In 17 games, Bollinger has had two crappy performances. It could be better, but compare that to TJ and Nancy, and he is looking like the go-to-guy.

As far as next year, it really all depends on whether you have given up on TJ yet. Those who have say draft a rookie and sign a vet. Those who haven't say sign a vet and let TJ learn. Personally, I'm off the TJ bandwagon. I say let's see if Bollinger has what it takes to lead us until our shiny new rookie, hopefully Matt Ryan, is ready.

Frostbite
11-08-2007, 11:59 PM
Hi V....I agree with a lot in your post. I have also been echoing the same words about Brooks in many threads. Bollinger has never really had the opportunity to work consistantly with the starting offensive lineup. I think he could get better with some encouragement and practice time with them....and with playing time as a starter. I really believe he wants to show a lot of folks that he can play better than most think.


You are also correct to point out Bollingers stats are better than Andersons at this time. I am still wondering why more fans won't give the guy a fair chance with the starting offense?? This GB game could show us a lot of what Brooks is really made of.


Cheers!

The Dropper
11-09-2007, 01:25 AM
"DaVizzles" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:



http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=


Does anyone know much about Jim Sorgi or whether the Colts would part with him? I've never seen him play, but here are his stats from nfl.com: (http://www.nfl.com/players/jimsorgi/profile?id=SOR431260)

Jim Sorgi | #12 | QB Indianapolis Colts | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5
Weight: 196
Age: 26
Born: 12/3/1980 Fraser , MI
College: Wisconsin
Experience: 4th season
High School: Fraser HS [MI]

Season Team











Passing
























Rushing




Fumbles


















G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2007
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
1 2 50.0 9 4.5 0 0 0 0 62.5







-- -- -- -- -- --
2006
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
2005
Indianapolis Colts
5
0
42 61 68.9 444 7.3 3 1 3 14 99.4






12 1 0.1 0 1 1
2004
Indianapolis Colts
4
0
17 29 58.6 175 6.0 2 0 1 8 99.1







8 -5 -0.6 0 1 0
TOTAL
















60 92 65.2 628 6.8 5 1 4 22 98.5






20 -4 -0.2 0 2 1







He seems to fit what we might be looking for. He's young (26-four years in NFL), for one. He also appears to be pretty competent, though he doesn't have a whole lot of experience. Still, he's been learning behind Peyton freaking Manning, which has to be worth something. And you have to love that almost 70% completion percentage in 2005, even if it is only the equivalent of about one and a half games. On the other hand, he's 6'5" and 196
:o. Guy obviously need to bulk up a bit.

But again, I've never actually seen him play; I'm just going off stats and the fact that he is a backup for one of the best QB's to ever play the game.




I know you were trying to make a helpful suggestion dropper, so I for one won't try to step on you.....I will ask the question again. If you are going to bring up a guy like Sorgi what's wrong with just keeping Bollinger and working with him next season?? Unless we can really get a TOP NOTCH QB Veteran somewhere (Which isn't likely) we need to think about utilizing the guys we have as best as we can. Even if we draft a Rookie he's most likely going to struggle the first year or two.


Cheers!


I agree with you completely frostbite.

Sorry, Dropper if it sounded like I was ripping on your suggestion. I just don't think he is better then anything we have right now.


No offense taken in either case (my shell is a helluvalot thicker than that for Chrissakes
;D). I only brought up Sorgi because he seemed to fit the bill suggested by Marrdro in his opening post; that is, young but with some experience and potential.

As I said before, I've never actually seen the guy play, so I was kind of just lobbing a meatball out there to gauge peoples' opinions of him (obviously negative).

Two years ago there were people on this site begging for us to bring in Matt Schaub, even though he had hardly played. I just wondered whether Sorgi might be another Schaub type player with high potential (yeah, I know, that isn't working out so well now..), or even a Tony Romo who spent a few years with his ass warming the seat, just waiting to show people what he could do. Sure Sorgi hasn't actually spent much time on the field, but he's been in the NFL for over three years practicing and learning with one of the consistently best teams in the NFL. This would make him a veteran of sorts.

So why is it that everyone has such a bad opinion of him?


On a completely separate topic...Brooks Bollinger.

I have a soft spot in my heart for Brooks. We graduated from high school in the same year and in the same town (different high schools though), so I want to cheer for my home town boy. And I do think he has the potential to be a respectable NFL quarterback. Quite honestly I have no problem with him being a starter even going into next year.

But the topic of this thread was not about Brooks, or Tarvaris, or any other QB's currently on our roster. It was about "possible solutions" for what is considered by many to be a lack of a QB that can put the Vikings into a position to win consistently. By saying Brooks is the answer, you're saying, "There isn't a QB problem." That's fine. Perhaps Brooks or Tarvaris is the answer, but it seems to me that this thread assumes that this is not the case.

bigbadragz
11-09-2007, 02:12 AM
"tdunc" wrote:


How about Derek Anderson of the Cleveland browns???

he has a 91 passer rating this year which is decent
17 TD's which is a lot better than any of our QB's
9 INT's but that will only get better as he progresses
He is 6 foot 6 which nice for a Quarterback
and he is only 24

I mean the browns wont keep him and Brady Quinn will they???
If he continues playing at this high of a level i say we give him a chance

Otherwise were back to the drawing board and pick up a quarterback in the draft..



keep in mind i'm just saying.
scott mitchell, (buffalo) johnson (can't remember his name), kurt warner, aj feely, and many others all worked well coming in and playing for long periods and looking good.
but sometimes those guys are just good within that system.
there are qbs that automatically make you better cuz they are more talented, and then there are guys who are kinda one trick ponies.


i personally think anderson might be the real deal, but 1. i dont think he's going anywhere, and 2. something scares me about the fact that they were starting charlie frye over him and then traded up to draft quinn.
So basically he was going to be the 3rd string qb.
what the hell was going on that cleveland had no faith in this guy being the future.
don't know the answer but it makes me a bit weary.

Zeus
11-09-2007, 08:27 AM
"DaVizzles" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.


Your welcome.

Why would you even want Jim Sorgi?....Do you honestly think he is better then what we have right now? He will never be a starting QB in the NFL and is not the answer to our problems so...


How do you know he'll never be an NFL QB?
He's sat behind a guy who never leaves the field for many years now, so he hasn't gotten a chance to play.
Don't judge him because he's not beating out Peyton Manning for the starting job.


And because he's sat behind Manning and watched and learned, I bet he knows how to read defenses like a champ and find the open receiver.
Wouldn't that be cool for the Vikings to have at QB?

I'm not saying run out and sign Sorgi - but you're dismissing him with nothing more than an unsupported assertion that he'll never be a starter.

=Z=

2beersTommy
11-09-2007, 08:31 AM
they said the same thing about Chester Taylor before we picked him up. "all this guy has been is been Jamal Lewis's backup"
He didnt turn out so bad before Peterson got here..now did he?

PurplePowerPunch
11-09-2007, 08:34 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.


Your welcome.

Why would you even want Jim Sorgi?....Do you honestly think he is better then what we have right now? He will never be a starting QB in the NFL and is not the answer to our problems so...


How do you know he'll never be an NFL QB?
He's sat behind a guy who never leaves the field for many years now, so he hasn't gotten a chance to play.
Don't judge him because he's not beating out Peyton Manning for the starting job.


And because he's sat behind Manning and watched and learned, I bet he knows how to read defenses like a champ and find the open receiver.
Wouldn't that be cool for the Vikings to have at QB?

I'm not saying run out and sign Sorgi - but you're dismissing him with nothing more than an unsupported assertion that he'll never be a starter.

=Z=


Sorry dude, but Jim Sorgi is not the answer. He'll never be a starter in this league, and I don't want him taking snaps from Big Birk next year. If u ask me, I think he sucks. 8)

PurplePeopleEaters
11-09-2007, 09:22 AM
I have a weird feeling we send Chester Taylor packing for more draft picks this year and end up using those draft picks to trade for a QB like Anderson. I like Chester but just like with Baltimore he doesn't really have a place on the team as a backup to a star RB. It's unfortunate because he's really a great RB as demonstrated last year...

tastywaves
11-09-2007, 10:32 AM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


I have a weird feeling we send Chester Taylor packing for more draft picks this year and end up using those draft picks to trade for a QB like Anderson. I like Chester but just like with Baltimore he doesn't really have a place on the team as a backup to a star RB. It's unfortunate because he's really a great RB as demonstrated last year...


Very possible that we deal CT this offseason.
He should have good trade value and it is probably better for Chester as well. He's shown he can be a quality starter, but he won't have that here as long as AD is healthy.

Mr-holland
11-09-2007, 11:08 AM
"tastywaves" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


I have a weird feeling we send Chester Taylor packing for more draft picks this year and end up using those draft picks to trade for a QB like Anderson. I like Chester but just like with Baltimore he doesn't really have a place on the team as a backup to a star RB. It's unfortunate because he's really a great RB as demonstrated last year...


Very possible that we deal CT this offseason.
He should have good trade value and it is probably better for Chester as well. He's shown he can be a quality starter, but he won't have that here as long as AD is healthy.




I rather hold on to CT just like many teams in the NFL do with their Qb.
You never know what could happend, and you know you have somebody to fall back on

tb04512
11-09-2007, 11:28 AM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


I have a weird feeling we send Chester Taylor packing for more draft picks this year and end up using those draft picks to trade for a QB like Anderson. I like Chester but just like with Baltimore he doesn't really have a place on the team as a backup to a star RB. It's unfortunate because he's really a great RB as demonstrated last year...


good i hope we send him packing, trade him for some picks or trade him and a pick for a qb

ultravikingfan
11-09-2007, 11:44 AM
"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.


Your welcome.

Why would you even want Jim Sorgi?....Do you honestly think he is better then what we have right now? He will never be a starting QB in the NFL and is not the answer to our problems so...


How do you know he'll never be an NFL QB?
He's sat behind a guy who never leaves the field for many years now, so he hasn't gotten a chance to play.
Don't judge him because he's not beating out Peyton Manning for the starting job.


And because he's sat behind Manning and watched and learned, I bet he knows how to read defenses like a champ and find the open receiver.
Wouldn't that be cool for the Vikings to have at QB?

I'm not saying run out and sign Sorgi - but you're dismissing him with nothing more than an unsupported assertion that he'll never be a starter.

=Z=


Sorry dude, but Jim Sorgi is not the answer. He'll never be a starter in this league, and I don't want him taking snaps from Big Birk next year. If u ask me, I think he sucks. 8)


That is very weak.
^

He sucks, why?
Just coming out and saying "He sucks" proves nothing.
Maybe a little explanation why "he sucks."

vikingivan
11-09-2007, 11:52 AM
"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.


Your welcome.

Why would you even want Jim Sorgi?....Do you honestly think he is better then what we have right now? He will never be a starting QB in the NFL and is not the answer to our problems so...


How do you know he'll never be an NFL QB?
He's sat behind a guy who never leaves the field for many years now, so he hasn't gotten a chance to play.
Don't judge him because he's not beating out Peyton Manning for the starting job.


And because he's sat behind Manning and watched and learned, I bet he knows how to read defenses like a champ and find the open receiver.
Wouldn't that be cool for the Vikings to have at QB?

I'm not saying run out and sign Sorgi - but you're dismissing him with nothing more than an unsupported assertion that he'll never be a starter.

=Z=


Sorry dude, but Jim Sorgi is not the answer. He'll never be a starter in this league, and I don't want him taking snaps from Big Birk next year. If u ask me, I think he sucks. 8)


Just curious.
What are you basing that opinion on?
I will give Tony Dungy enough credit to think that he does not have some slug backing up Manning.
Like Z previously stated he has been watching and learning from Peyton Manning.
The best quarterback in the league.
I think it would be great to bring him into camp and see what he can do next year.

COJOMAY
11-09-2007, 11:57 AM
Of course it's just speculation....
But Keiper said on ESPN that McNabb will be a Viking next season. McNabb himself said on a comcast yesterday that the poor play and losses weren't all his fault... he then talked about how all QB's even Brett Farve, go through poor play.... then Steak commented and said he's done in Philly after this year, and that Chicago and Minny are his best fits, then he talked about Childress and AP and that he'd like that...

marstc09
11-09-2007, 12:01 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


Of course it's just speculation....
But Keiper said on ESPN that McNabb will be a Viking next season. McNabb himself said on a comcast yesterday that the poor play and losses weren't all his fault... he then talked about how all QB's even Brett Farve, go through poor play.... then Steak commented and said he's done in Philly after this year, and that Chicago and Minny are his best fits, then he talked about Childress and AP and that he'd like that...


Sweet bring him in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pixie
11-09-2007, 12:56 PM
"tb04512" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


I have a weird feeling we send Chester Taylor packing for more draft picks this year and end up using those draft picks to trade for a QB like Anderson. I like Chester but just like with Baltimore he doesn't really have a place on the team as a backup to a star RB. It's unfortunate because he's really a great RB as demonstrated last year...


good i hope we send him packing, trade him for some picks or trade him and a pick for a qb



I'm confused as to how this relates to the QB solution?
Why would we not want to have 2 great RBs?


We need a Vet Quarterback to solidify what the Vikings have going on right now... if we take a piece out of the puzzle (a good RB) and replace it with another piece (a QB), we are still missing the first piece.
I am not sure it is a good idea to sacrifice what we have going on right now that is so good when we don't really need to.
We have the cap space and other options before we start dismantling the core of our team... I just think that would hurt us, not help.


We need a complete unit, period.

mountainviking
11-09-2007, 01:14 PM
I don't want Chester Taylor to go anywhere!!
I really, really don't think we should assume Peterson can stay healthy!!
RB is the most punishing position in the NFL!!
Teams that don't have depth there are nearly always sorry!
Hell, I'd like to see us find a way to keep Moore around too.
And, despite AP's success, I still think the one-two punch is the way to go.
Keep them both fresh and fired up!

As for Sorgi, well he's Unrestricted, that is one thing in his favor.
Hard to say how he'd do, there's not alot of experience to gauge there.

As for McNabb, I don't particularly care for his attitude either...he just seems to have a way of putting his foot in his mouth.
I'd sign him to a incentive laden contract if he was cut, but wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder for him.

V-Unit
11-09-2007, 02:17 PM
Trading Taylor makes very little sense to me. I would rather give away someone like Doss or Edwards before we trade Taylor.

Taylor is a stellar backup. I don't think there is anyone out there who can replace him. We haven't won a game where Taylor didn't play, and what happened to wanting a veteran presence to teach our young guys?

If not for injuries, Taylor, as a backup, would be on pace to break 1000 yards himself. Just because we have AD doesn't make Taylor expendable. If he wants to leave, that is understandable, but as long as he is happy and wants to keep the 1-2 punch going I don't see a reason for the Vikings to go out of our way to get rid of him.

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 01:47 PM
"El" wrote:


Very nice effort Marrdro, interesting stuff.

1.What I think wil happen.

Chilly and his stuff will continue guiding the Vikes in 08 ,seeing the previous year adquisitions and the way they focus things,I don´t think they gonna break the market with their moves ,I think they are gonna push hard for Mcnabb,solid Qb,used to WCO and well known by our coach,will also push for a esperienced Wr in the FAgents market offering him a very good contract with the salary space we have,Andre Davis(Texans ) or Bryant Johnson (Cardinals,who is not seeing too much playing time cause of the great WR corp Arizona has....)

In the draf they ll pick a DL and a Wr with our 2 first picks,in that order ,next rounds they will seek a Qb(there are a bunch this year...) cause the faith Chilly had in the young Jedi has decreased ,this Qb and TJ would take some learns from Mcnabb the 2 or 3 years he could be our starter...

2.What I d like to happen.

First of all I d give anything for Derek Anderson ,he could lead us to some serious playoff action the very next year ,the man has good and fast arms,He is 6-5 ,24 years old(young with many many years of future but with 3 years of experience in the league) ,I think is a Top 5 Qb rite now in the league,with the OL we have ,Rice and Davis(for example)as Wr and AD in the back,this off. would
kick dimply buttocks.Besides the adquisition of Anderson would bring more expectatives to Minny ,no black-outs,new stadium ,etc

The bad part,the Browns ,If they wanna speak with us,will demand 1,2 and 3 round picks for Anderson,they know what they have with Anderson and how we need a guy like him in Purple,the good part is Brady Quinn ,they wanna develop this guy and have faith in him perhaps leaving a door opened for Anderson.

Another important factor is the way the Browns ends this season,If they don´t clinch playoffs(I pray for it ),they would probably make up their minds and start negociating with us,time will tell ,but I d give my 3 first round picks for him,sadly I don´t think this happen seeing our conservative managment.

Derek Anderson apart,I would push hard for a FA WR,like Andre Davis ,we have plenty of cap
for him,he could be our starter and help our dear Rice in learning some,this would be for me,our 2 starter at
receiver nex year.

With the picks we still have ,4 ,5 and 6 I would add some D and O lineman ,and another Receiver .

That is what I think.

http://www.salem-news.com/spimg/september172007/osu-qb.jpg


He would look like so
fine in Purple!!!!!!!!


Great stuff my friend.

I wonder about the 1rst 2nd and 3rd round picks.
Isn't there something that governs the structure for teams to work when dealing with RFA?

Great stuff on the draft as well, however, gonna stay away from that as I get heavy into my Mock Draft mode about game 14 or so.
Do you do a mock draft?

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 01:51 PM
"Mr-holland" wrote:


You guys know what the problem is, nobody wants to give much, not risking your 1st round pick.
if you want a good QB who has proven himself and seems to fit the team it's better to risk it, we desperately need a Qb for the future who can fulfill the #1 slot and learn TJ for instance the ropes, and is that McNabb, Pennington or any other Qb so be it.


But what is the risk if you go after a guy that has produced (i.e. McNabb or Anderson)?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Donavan is worth spending a 1rst on, however, Anderson or somebody else sitting on a bench out there might be worth it if for nothing else than the time and reps the guy already has.
Development would be almost minimal.

Additionally someone like Voleck also intrigues me.
He is a Unrestricted FA and could be picked up without giving up picks.
Heck, I bet he is tired of watching Peyton play.
;D

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:00 PM
"V" wrote:


We have been wallowing in uncertainty at QB ever sicne Daunte injured his knee. It MUST stop. That means drafting a QB in the first round.

If Bollinger proves to be a competent QB this year, I say we start next year with him and have the rookie come in next season. In reality that fits all of your criteria Marr. Bollinger is young, cheap (already signed), and knows the system.

However, there is a strong chance that Bollinger proves he is as worthless as our other two current QBs. In that case we have to sign a pathetic QB who will not last. I'm thinking Jake Plummer/Kelly Holcomb. The fans will hate it, but as long as our rookie QB is actually good, it'll be ok.

Great stuff V.

I like the idea of drafting another QB and believe that the indicator (Thigpen) is there that the staff is also still looking to the future even if TJ pans out.
Anyway, just wanted to focus on Vets out there and not get into the whole "Best Rookie" discussion.
I think that will follow around draft time.

I, for discussions sake, left off all of our Vet QB's just to get the discussion on other QB's that we aren't talking about every day if for nothing else other than to get names out there for people to think about other than the 1 or 2 we have been hashing.

Sorgi is now on my radar.
I didn't even realize he was a UFA next year.
Look at the positives that guy brings.

Studied behind Peyton.
Its Wierd but the Colts to run a ver of the WCO.
He wouldn't cost any picks.
Probably would want a huge contract which we could handle

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:08 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


I've been saying it for a few weeks now, however, I thought I would put a bit of my research in a thread.

Most of you know (who take the time to read my posts) that I believe there is a major issue related to QB talent in the NFL now.
I attribute that to a few things, however, for this discussion, the biggest being the fact that you just can't get through a year with only one guy that can lead the team if you still want to be effective.

With that said, more and more teams are carrying two high priced QB's on thier roster which greatly reduces the availability of a said QB's that can be picked up by other teams or makes the asking price for them just to high.


Going into next year, it would appear that the QB wheel at the Vikes is gonna take another spin.
Let me rationalize this for some of you, who will automatically throw out TJ as an option, with some of my assumptions so that you don't pick the post apart with your perceived facts:

(Were TJ will be by the end of the year) (Remember my assumptions)
a.
It is gonna take at least another year to develop TJ into a viable starter.



1.
Still making bad throws.



2.
Still throwing ball into defenders hands



3.
Still not making reads quickly enough to run the WCO.
b.
TJ might not be a viable starter because of injury concerns. (Quality backup for a game or 2)



1. Groin



2. Finger



3. Concussion
c.
We need a Vet in that can grow with/lead this team.Again, whether TJ will ever be a QB in the NFL is not my discussion point so lets not dwell on that.
Suffice it to say, however, for this thread, lets make it a fact that he won't be available/viable next year as our starter.

Were does that lead us?

IMHO it leads us to the fact that based on what I am seeing this year, we are a QB, WR, and a DE away from being a really good team.
There will be a pleathura of WR's and DE's out there to choose from, especially with the CAP we have avail so that shouldn't be an issue.
QB's are another story.

Again, the state of Vet QB's in the NFL are a huge concern when you start looking at what will be avail in the FA market next year.
IMHO there won't be anything that this organization can just go out and get off the street.


That leaves only one solution.
They will have to broker a deal with a team that has someone sitting on thier roster that can come in and be a quality starter for us.

Quality starter.
What does that mean?
Well for this discussion the following traits/strenghts must come to bear.

(My recipe for a Quality Starting QB)
a.
He has been or is in a WCO scheme.
Although this isn't as huge as some would think, it would help as he transitions into the scheme we run.
b.
He isn't old. I would prefer a 3-5 year vet, could be a backup that is behind a good starter.
c.
He has to have no issue with character. Seems the staff will bend on this a bit.
d. We can get him for no more than 2 picks.
2 solid drafts with the 3rd coming up for depth leaves a bit of wiggle room for spending 2 picks on the right guy.
e.
He doesn't need to be developed.
He can come right in during the offseason (Pre OTA's) and work with the staff leading up to camp.
f. The front office needs to do this as soon as they can, but not right before the season starts.

Lets look at the teams that run a "So Called" WCO now and what they have starting or on the bench.

(Note 1 - IMHO there are two types of WCO schemes being run today.
One (P/R) is a Pass to set up the run style and one is Run (R/P) to set up the pass style)
(Note 2 - IMHO we are a R/P oriented team.
(V along will like that ;D))

a.
Eagles (P/R) - McNabb, Kolb.
I know, I know, the whole Chiller/Eagles connection will come up but lets keep to some intelligent football convo here.
I wouldn't mind McNabb but I think that he might be a bit old for a long term solution.
Might be worth it if we can get him with no picks involved.
We could then use either one of the 1rst or 3rd on another rook to develop.

b. Denver - (R/P) - Cutler, Ramsey.
I think we can rule Cutler out.
Still wish Bryzcheapski and the front office would have given Denver what they wanted for that pick.
You wouldn't have to read this thread then.
;D


Ramsey is interesting to me.
1rst round selection (32nd) by the Skins, 35 TD's with 30 Int's.
Might be a bit to sloppy with the ball for the style we run but it is hard to tell without actually going back and looking at all the situations he was in when they were thrown.
Primary backup to Cutler will probably make the asking price to high.
Long story short, probably not a good option.

c.
GB. (P/R) Favreeeeee, Rodgers.
OK.
I only put this in there so no one would say......Hey you forgot about GB.
Really, do you think I would wast my time even researching the possibility that we would go after one of these or that they would entertain giving us one.

;D Lets move on.

d.
Seattle. (I can't tell what they are now.
When they have a healthy RB they are R/P).
Matt Hasselbeck, Seneca Wallace,
Charlie Frye.
The only one that I think even comes close to meeting our needs would be Wallace.

Matt isn't going anywhere no matter how much we offer and, well Frye is only on this team cause of injury and Cleveland had a better option(s).

Wallace is a 5 year man with some pretty good stuff for the limited time he has seen the field.
My biggest nock on him is he is 5'11" which could be a major issue behind the OL we have.
All of them are pretty tall.
This alone would slow down his read/react time of getting the ball out on the 3 step drops.
Probably not an option for that reason.
Also, Matt has been dinged over the last couple of years so I don't think Seneca is open to go anywere.

e.
Texans.
(P/R).

Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels,
Craig Nall.
Schaub could suck for the rest of the year, if he ever gets healthy and he isn't going anywere cause the Texans have so much invested in him.
Sage is already into his 7th year of his alustrious career with 16 TD/13 Ints.
Not a huge indicator of how well he protects the all/reads defenses without actually going in and looking up the game time situations.
Nall, I couldn't find to much about but he has 4 TD's and 0 Ints in a 6 year career.
Only thing interesting there is he learned behind Lord Favreeeeeee.
Again, kindof interesting.

f.
TB.
(R/P).

Jeff Garcia,
Luke McCown,
Bruce Gradkowski.
McCown = 4 yrs, 4TD's 7 Ints. Pretty much a no go for me based on that and the times I've seen him play. He is a bit mobile and is a tough kid, however, there is nothing else I like.
Gradkowski,
9 TD's/10Int's.
Nice size, mobile but only 2 years.
Might be a bit of a developmental guy.
Rule him out just for that.

g.
Cleveland (P/R). Anderson, Quinn.
Ok, I saved these two for last.
Both know I want Anderson and think the team should not only ask Cleveland if Anderson is available, but they should also give up whatever the asking price is.
Quinn isn't going anywhere for along time and if we could, the price would be way to high IMHO.

With all that said, here is the way I would rank the guys that are out there that might be avail for us to improve the QB position.

a.
Anderson.
High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
b1.
Pennington.
I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
b2.
McNabb.
Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
b3.
Losman.
Another one that I left out.
Added because a poster gave a rationale reason to add him.
c.
Nall.
Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
Still an interesting candidate.
d.
Gradkowski.
Not a bad candidate.
TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
e. Wallace.
Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.

I throw it out there for anyone that knows of another option (Please give rationale and keep it to guys that are on teams right now.
No washed up has beens and no collegiate players.)






Nice post Marrdro....I agree with a lot of this. I am currious about the fact that so many of the QBs you mention as possible candidates are about as well known as our own Brooks Bollinger. My question is this. Is it possible (Even if Unlikely) that a second tier guy could really excell and out perform expectations if given the chance to do so?

I am still at a loss as to why so many fans think Brooks is an inexperienced QB?? He's been in The League and was in the AFC, a much stronger conference over the past 4 years and has seen a lot. As proof...look at the job he's doing currently. I have to believe part of the reason he's doing so well is because he wants to make the most of his chance to show what he can do....as any player relegated to the backup role would want too. The difference is he's actually out performing most expectations.

There were a lot of virtually unknown performers on your QB list. What could some of them possible do given the chance?? My point is this....We may indeed need a Veteran name brought into Minnesota, but if you're proposing somebody like a Cutler or Garcia I say why?? At this point Bollinger is playing as good as some of these guys currently. Maybe all Brooks really needed was a real shot with a First String Offense to wake him up?

i know players are constantly evaluated by coaches but perhaps someone missed a key issue when they made Brooks the Number 3 QB. He's at least better than Holcomb and should be given a chance to start until he shows he can't cut it....which so far I have not seen. He's reading defenses well....He's making smart decisions with the ball....He's cool in the pocket and can take a hit and stay in the game. He also is very accurate and has a decent arm. The only thing he doesn't have is a well known name....Neither do half the guys on your list.


Cheers!

Very nice my friend.
Good discussion.

To your point about some of the players are unknown......
Who knew who DA was before game 2 of this year?
Possibly a few Browns fans and that was it.

There is a old saying I like......
Just cause you don't know his name, don't mean he can't play Ball........


The point of this thread was to try and find that next guy as the solution.
Maybe it is BB on our bench, I kindof doubt that, however, it is still possible.

Again, I tried to stay away from the guys on our bench if for no other reason than to stimulate our posters to look at other guys and get familiar with them in an effort to find that guy.

I for one, hope BB plays his ass off, TJ develops and we aren't really in the mess that it appears we are in.
;D

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:11 PM
"DaVizzles" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


I've been saying it for a few weeks now, however, I thought I would put a bit of my research in a thread.

Most of you know (who take the time to read my posts) that I believe there is a major issue related to QB talent in the NFL now.
I attribute that to a few things, however, for this discussion, the biggest being the fact that you just can't get through a year with only one guy that can lead the team if you still want to be effective.

With that said, more and more teams are carrying two high priced QB's on thier roster which greatly reduces the availability of a said QB's that can be picked up by other teams or makes the asking price for them just to high.


Going into next year, it would appear that the QB wheel at the Vikes is gonna take another spin.
Let me rationalize this for some of you, who will automatically throw out TJ as an option, with some of my assumptions so that you don't pick the post apart with your perceived facts:

(Were TJ will be by the end of the year) (Remember my assumptions)
a.
It is gonna take at least another year to develop TJ into a viable starter.



1.
Still making bad throws.



2.
Still throwing ball into defenders hands



3.
Still not making reads quickly enough to run the WCO.
b.
TJ might not be a viable starter because of injury concerns. (Quality backup for a game or 2)



1. Groin



2. Finger



3. Concussion
c.
We need a Vet in that can grow with/lead this team.

Again, whether TJ will ever be a QB in the NFL is not my discussion point so lets not dwell on that.
Suffice it to say, however, for this thread, lets make it a fact that he won't be available/viable next year as our starter.

Were does that lead us?

IMHO it leads us to the fact that based on what I am seeing this year, we are a QB, WR, and a DE away from being a really good team.
There will be a pleathura of WR's and DE's out there to choose from, especially with the CAP we have avail so that shouldn't be an issue.
QB's are another story.

Again, the state of Vet QB's in the NFL are a huge concern when you start looking at what will be avail in the FA market next year.
IMHO there won't be anything that this organization can just go out and get off the street.


That leaves only one solution.
They will have to broker a deal with a team that has someone sitting on thier roster that can come in and be a quality starter for us.

Quality starter.
What does that mean?
Well for this discussion the following traits/strenghts must come to bear.

(My recipe for a Quality Starting QB)
a.
He has been or is in a WCO scheme.
Although this isn't as huge as some would think, it would help as he transitions into the scheme we run.
b.
He isn't old. I would prefer a 3-5 year vet, could be a backup that is behind a good starter.
c.
He has to have no issue with character. Seems the staff will bend on this a bit.
d. We can get him for no more than 2 picks.
2 solid drafts with the 3rd coming up for depth leaves a bit of wiggle room for spending 2 picks on the right guy.
e.
He doesn't need to be developed.
He can come right in during the offseason (Pre OTA's) and work with the staff leading up to camp.
f. The front office needs to do this as soon as they can, but not right before the season starts.

Lets look at the teams that run a "So Called" WCO now and what they have starting or on the bench.

(Note 1 - IMHO there are two types of WCO schemes being run today.
One (P/R) is a Pass to set up the run style and one is Run (R/P) to set up the pass style)
(Note 2 - IMHO we are a R/P oriented team.
(V along will like that ;D))

a.
Eagles (P/R) - McNabb, Kolb.
I know, I know, the whole Chiller/Eagles connection will come up but lets keep to some intelligent football convo here.
I wouldn't mind McNabb but I think that he might be a bit old for a long term solution.
Might be worth it if we can get him with no picks involved.
We could then use either one of the 1rst or 3rd on another rook to develop.

b. Denver - (R/P) - Cutler, Ramsey.
I think we can rule Cutler out.
Still wish Bryzcheapski and the front office would have given Denver what they wanted for that pick.
You wouldn't have to read this thread then.
;D


Ramsey is interesting to me.
1rst round selection (32nd) by the Skins, 35 TD's with 30 Int's.
Might be a bit to sloppy with the ball for the style we run but it is hard to tell without actually going back and looking at all the situations he was in when they were thrown.
Primary backup to Cutler will probably make the asking price to high.
Long story short, probably not a good option.

c.
GB. (P/R) Favreeeeee, Rodgers.
OK.
I only put this in there so no one would say......Hey you forgot about GB.
Really, do you think I would wast my time even researching the possibility that we would go after one of these or that they would entertain giving us one.

;D Lets move on.

d.
Seattle. (I can't tell what they are now.
When they have a healthy RB they are R/P).
Matt Hasselbeck, Seneca Wallace,
Charlie Frye.
The only one that I think even comes close to meeting our needs would be Wallace.

Matt isn't going anywhere no matter how much we offer and, well Frye is only on this team cause of injury and Cleveland had a better option(s).

Wallace is a 5 year man with some pretty good stuff for the limited time he has seen the field.
My biggest nock on him is he is 5'11" which could be a major issue behind the OL we have.
All of them are pretty tall.
This alone would slow down his read/react time of getting the ball out on the 3 step drops.
Probably not an option for that reason.
Also, Matt has been dinged over the last couple of years so I don't think Seneca is open to go anywere.

e.
Texans.
(P/R).

Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels,
Craig Nall.
Schaub could suck for the rest of the year, if he ever gets healthy and he isn't going anywere cause the Texans have so much invested in him.
Sage is already into his 7th year of his alustrious career with 16 TD/13 Ints.
Not a huge indicator of how well he protects the all/reads defenses without actually going in and looking up the game time situations.
Nall, I couldn't find to much about but he has 4 TD's and 0 Ints in a 6 year career.
Only thing interesting there is he learned behind Lord Favreeeeeee.
Again, kindof interesting.

f.
TB.
(R/P).

Jeff Garcia,
Luke McCown,
Bruce Gradkowski.
McCown = 4 yrs, 4TD's 7 Ints. Pretty much a no go for me based on that and the times I've seen him play. He is a bit mobile and is a tough kid, however, there is nothing else I like.
Gradkowski,
9 TD's/10Int's.
Nice size, mobile but only 2 years.
Might be a bit of a developmental guy.
Rule him out just for that.

g.
Cleveland (P/R). Anderson, Quinn.
Ok, I saved these two for last.
Both know I want Anderson and think the team should not only ask Cleveland if Anderson is available, but they should also give up whatever the asking price is.
Quinn isn't going anywhere for along time and if we could, the price would be way to high IMHO.

With all that said, here is the way I would rank the guys that are out there that might be avail for us to improve the QB position.

a.
Anderson.
High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
b1.
Pennington.
I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
b2.
McNabb.
Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
b3.
Losman.
Another one that I left out.
Added because a poster gave a rationale reason to add him.
c.
Nall.
Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
Still an interesting candidate.
d.
Gradkowski.
Not a bad candidate.
TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
e. Wallace.
Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.

I throw it out there for anyone that knows of another option (Please give rationale and keep it to guys that are on teams right now.
No washed up has beens and no collegiate players.)



Real nice post....you sure do put alot of time and effort into your posts..Great Job!

Anyways, out of the QB's you listed their are only about 3 people on that list that would be worth signing to be the starting QB for our team. Those 3 are..... 1)McNabb who I believe would be the best fit and would be the most likely candidate we would get considering he knows the WCO and has a history with Childress. 2)Derek Anderson- I think the asking price is to high if the report is true that they want a 1st and a 3rd. The guy is talented dont get me wrong but just not worth that much. 3)Losman- I really like this kid, I actually was thinking about rating him #2 over Anderson. He has good mobility and has shown improvement the past two years.

Thanks my friend.

Good stuff.
I discounted Losman if for no other reason that I didn't think he was that good.
As his name has come up a couple of times, I will have to go back and revisit.

Good input my friend.
;D

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:14 PM
"The" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:



http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=


Does anyone know much about Jim Sorgi or whether the Colts would part with him? I've never seen him play, but here are his stats from nfl.com: (http://www.nfl.com/players/jimsorgi/profile?id=SOR431260)

Jim Sorgi | #12 | QB
Indianapolis Colts | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5

Weight: 196

Age: 26
Born: 12/3/1980 Fraser , MI
College: Wisconsin
Experience: 4th season
High School: Fraser HS [MI]

Season Team












Passing
























Rushing





Fumbles


















G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2007
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
1 2 50.0 9 4.5 0 0 0 0 62.5







-- -- -- -- -- --
2006
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
2005
Indianapolis Colts
5
0
42 61 68.9 444 7.3 3 1 3 14 99.4







12 1 0.1 0 1 1
2004
Indianapolis Colts
4
0
17 29 58.6 175 6.0 2 0 1 8 99.1








8 -5 -0.6 0 1 0
TOTAL

















60 92 65.2 628 6.8 5 1 4 22 98.5







20 -4 -0.2 0 2 1







He seems to fit what we might be looking for. He's young (26-four years in NFL), for one. He also appears to be pretty competent, though he doesn't have a whole lot of experience. Still, he's been learning behind Peyton freaking Manning, which has to be worth something. And you have to love that almost 70% completion percentage in 2005, even if it is only the equivalent of about one and a half games. On the other hand, he's 6'5" and 196
:o. Guy obviously need to bulk up a bit.

But again, I've never actually seen him play; I'm just going off stats and the fact that he is a backup for one of the best QB's to ever play the game.


Damn.
I've been typing Voleck instead of Sorgi.
My apologies.

Thanks for the stats.
I was gonna go look him up after I got through everyones post.

Great stuff my friend.

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:18 PM
"tdunc" wrote:


How about Derek Anderson of the Cleveland browns???

he has a 91 passer rating this year which is decent
17 TD's which is a lot better than any of our QB's
9 INT's but that will only get better as he progresses
He is 6 foot 6 which nice for a Quarterback
and he is only 24

I mean the browns wont keep him and Brady Quinn will they???
If he continues playing at this high of a level i say we give him a chance

Otherwise were back to the drawing board and pick up a quarterback in the draft..



Please don't take this as I'm trying to be a smart ass, however, did you read the thread?

There are several (me included) who have him at the top of our list.

The problem is the fact that he is a RFA and will command a huge investment in draft picks to get him.
Do you believe that we should do that?

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:22 PM
"The" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:



http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Free-Agents-By-Position/QB

Ryan Fitzpatrick Cincinnati Bengals RFA QB

Craig Ochs Buffalo Bills RFA QB

Dan Orlovsky Detroit Lions RFA QB

Todd Collins Washington Redskins UFA QB

Ken Dorsey Cleveland Browns UFA QB

Quinn Gray Jacksonville Jaguars UFA QB

Rex Grossman Chicago Bears UFA QB

Drew Henson Minnesota Vikings UFA QB

Cleo Lemon Miami Dolphins UFA QB

Jared Lorenzen New York Giants UFA QB

Jamie Martin New Orleans Saints UFA QB

Josh McCown Oakland Raiders UFA QB

Jim Sorgi Indianapolis Colts UFA QB

Brian St. Pierre Pittsburgh Steelers UFA QB

Seneca Wallace Seattle Seahawks UFA QB

From that list, I'm leaning towards Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=


Does anyone know much about Jim Sorgi or whether the Colts would part with him? I've never seen him play, but here are his stats from nfl.com: (http://www.nfl.com/players/jimsorgi/profile?id=SOR431260)

Jim Sorgi | #12 | QB Indianapolis Colts | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5

Weight: 196

Age: 26
Born: 12/3/1980 Fraser , MI
College: Wisconsin
Experience: 4th season
High School: Fraser HS [MI]

Season Team












Passing
























Rushing





Fumbles


















G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2007
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
1 2 50.0 9 4.5 0 0 0 0 62.5







-- -- -- -- -- --
2006
Indianapolis Colts
1
0
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
2005
Indianapolis Colts
5
0
42 61 68.9 444 7.3 3 1 3 14 99.4







12 1 0.1 0 1 1
2004
Indianapolis Colts
4
0
17 29 58.6 175 6.0 2 0 1 8 99.1








8 -5 -0.6 0 1 0
TOTAL

















60 92 65.2 628 6.8 5 1 4 22 98.5







20 -4 -0.2 0 2 1







He seems to fit what we might be looking for. He's young (26-four years in NFL), for one. He also appears to be pretty competent, though he doesn't have a whole lot of experience. Still, he's been learning behind Peyton freaking Manning, which has to be worth something. And you have to love that almost 70% completion percentage in 2005, even if it is only the equivalent of about one and a half games. On the other hand, he's 6'5" and 196
:o. Guy obviously need to bulk up a bit.

But again, I've never actually seen him play; I'm just going off stats and the fact that he is a backup for one of the best QB's to ever play the game.




I know you were trying to make a helpful suggestion dropper, so I for one won't try to step on you.....I will ask the question again. If you are going to bring up a guy like Sorgi what's wrong with just keeping Bollinger and working with him next season?? Unless we can really get a TOP NOTCH QB Veteran somewhere (Which isn't likely) we need to think about utilizing the guys we have as best as we can. Even if we draft a Rookie he's most likely going to struggle the first year or two.


Cheers!


I agree with you completely frostbite.

Sorry, Dropper if it sounded like I was ripping on your suggestion. I just don't think he is better then anything we have right now.


No offense taken in either case (my shell is a helluvalot thicker than that for Chrissakes
;D). I only brought up Sorgi because he seemed to fit the bill suggested by Marrdro in his opening post; that is, young but with some experience and potential.

As I said before, I've never actually seen the guy play, so I was kind of just lobbing a meatball out there to gauge peoples' opinions of him (obviously negative).

Two years ago there were people on this site begging for us to bring in Matt Schaub, even though he had hardly played. I just wondered whether Sorgi might be another Schaub type player with high potential (yeah, I know, that isn't working out so well now..), or even a Tony Romo who spent a few years with his jiggly butt warming the seat, just waiting to show people what he could do. Sure Sorgi hasn't actually spent much time on the field, but he's been in the NFL for over three years practicing and learning with one of the consistently best teams in the NFL. This would make him a veteran of sorts.

So why is it that everyone has such a bad opinion of him?


On a completely separate topic...Brooks Bollinger.

I have a soft spot in my heart for Brooks. We graduated from high school in the same year and in the same town (different high schools though), so I want to cheer for my home town boy. And I do think he has the potential to be a respectable NFL quarterback. Quite honestly I have no problem with him being a starter even going into next year.

But the topic of this thread was not about Brooks, or Tarvaris, or any other QB's currently on our roster. It was about "possible solutions" for what is considered by many to be a lack of a QB that can put the Vikings into a position to win consistently. By saying Brooks is the answer, you're saying, "There isn't a QB problem." That's fine. Perhaps Brooks or Tarvaris is the answer, but it seems to me that this thread assumes that this is not the case.

How many on here believe that the Colts are a class act when it comes to being a Football organization?

They always seem to have the right players in the right place at the right time.

Why not thier backup?
Do you believe they would just have some slouch sitting on the bench cause Peyton doesn't ever get hurt?

Sorry, but I believe he is sitting there cause he is the best option out there to come in if Peyton goes down.

I am gonna add him to the list.
;D

Great stuff Dropper.
;D

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:23 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.


Your welcome.

Why would you even want Jim Sorgi?....Do you honestly think he is better then what we have right now? He will never be a starting QB in the NFL and is not the answer to our problems so...


How do you know he'll never be an NFL QB?
He's sat behind a guy who never leaves the field for many years now, so he hasn't gotten a chance to play.
Don't judge him because he's not beating out Peyton Manning for the starting job.


And because he's sat behind Manning and watched and learned, I bet he knows how to read defenses like a champ and find the open receiver.
Wouldn't that be cool for the Vikings to have at QB?

I'm not saying run out and sign Sorgi - but you're dismissing him with nothing more than an unsupported assertion that he'll never be a starter.

=Z=

Excellent comment Z.

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:25 PM
"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.


Your welcome.

Why would you even want Jim Sorgi?....Do you honestly think he is better then what we have right now? He will never be a starting QB in the NFL and is not the answer to our problems so...


How do you know he'll never be an NFL QB?
He's sat behind a guy who never leaves the field for many years now, so he hasn't gotten a chance to play.
Don't judge him because he's not beating out Peyton Manning for the starting job.


And because he's sat behind Manning and watched and learned, I bet he knows how to read defenses like a champ and find the open receiver.
Wouldn't that be cool for the Vikings to have at QB?

I'm not saying run out and sign Sorgi - but you're dismissing him with nothing more than an unsupported assertion that he'll never be a starter.

=Z=


Sorry dude, but Jim Sorgi is not the answer. He'll never be a starter in this league, and I don't want him taking snaps from Big Birk next year. If u ask me, I think he sucks. 8)

Can you elaborate a bit on "He sucks"?.
Weak arm, Poor throwing motion, to short?
What is it about him that you don't like?

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:28 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


I have a weird feeling we send Chester Taylor packing for more draft picks this year and end up using those draft picks to trade for a QB like Anderson. I like Chester but just like with Baltimore he doesn't really have a place on the team as a backup to a star RB. It's unfortunate because he's really a great RB as demonstrated last year...

Don't want to go off down this tangent, but this kindof applies.

Why would we trade him for picks to get DA when the Browns need help at RB?
Why not just send CT over with a #2 pick?

Anyway, don't want to go down that path.
CT isn't going anywhere or we would have sent him to a team that wanted Memo if we were looking to get rid of RB's for picks.
He is just to valuable in his role of keeping AD fresh.

Good post though my friend.
;D

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:29 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"The" wrote:




All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.


Your welcome.

Why would you even want Jim Sorgi?....Do you honestly think he is better then what we have right now? He will never be a starting QB in the NFL and is not the answer to our problems so...


How do you know he'll never be an NFL QB?
He's sat behind a guy who never leaves the field for many years now, so he hasn't gotten a chance to play.
Don't judge him because he's not beating out Peyton Manning for the starting job.


And because he's sat behind Manning and watched and learned, I bet he knows how to read defenses like a champ and find the open receiver.
Wouldn't that be cool for the Vikings to have at QB?

I'm not saying run out and sign Sorgi - but you're dismissing him with nothing more than an unsupported assertion that he'll never be a starter.

=Z=


Sorry dude, but Jim Sorgi is not the answer. He'll never be a starter in this league, and I don't want him taking snaps from Big Birk next year. If u ask me, I think he sucks. 8)


That is very weak.
^

He sucks, why?
Just coming out and saying "He sucks" proves nothing.
Maybe a little explanation why "he sucks."




Thanks Ultra.

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:30 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"The" wrote:




All I can say about Jim Sorgi is........HELL NO!


Good feedback. That really helps, thanks.


Your welcome.

Why would you even want Jim Sorgi?....Do you honestly think he is better then what we have right now? He will never be a starting QB in the NFL and is not the answer to our problems so...


How do you know he'll never be an NFL QB?
He's sat behind a guy who never leaves the field for many years now, so he hasn't gotten a chance to play.
Don't judge him because he's not beating out Peyton Manning for the starting job.


And because he's sat behind Manning and watched and learned, I bet he knows how to read defenses like a champ and find the open receiver.
Wouldn't that be cool for the Vikings to have at QB?

I'm not saying run out and sign Sorgi - but you're dismissing him with nothing more than an unsupported assertion that he'll never be a starter.

=Z=


Sorry dude, but Jim Sorgi is not the answer. He'll never be a starter in this league, and I don't want him taking snaps from Big Birk next year. If u ask me, I think he sucks. 8)


Just curious.
What are you basing that opinion on?
I will give Tony Dungy enough credit to think that he does not have some slug backing up Manning.
Like Z previously stated he has been watching and learning from Peyton Manning.
The best quarterback in the league.
I think it would be great to bring him into camp and see what he can do next year.

Thanks my friend.
;D

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:32 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


Of course it's just speculation....
But Keiper said on ESPN that McNabb will be a Viking next season. McNabb himself said on a comcast yesterday that the poor play and losses weren't all his fault... he then talked about how all QB's even Brett Farve, go through poor play.... then Steak commented and said he's done in Philly after this year, and that Chicago and Minny are his best fits, then he talked about Childress and AP and that he'd like that...

Very interesting.
If he is out there fishing this early then I would assume he will come a bit cheaper than I originally expected.

Bryzcheapski can draft up a incentive laden contract with a good signing bonus and bring his ass in.
;D

tb04512
11-10-2007, 02:34 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"tdunc" wrote:


How about Derek Anderson of the Cleveland browns???

he has a 91 passer rating this year which is decent
17 TD's which is a lot better than any of our QB's
9 INT's but that will only get better as he progresses
He is 6 foot 6 which nice for a Quarterback
and he is only 24

I mean the browns wont keep him and Brady Quinn will they???
If he continues playing at this high of a level i say we give him a chance

Otherwise were back to the drawing board and pick up a quarterback in the draft..



Please don't take this as I'm trying to be a smart ass, however, did you read the thread?

There are several (me included) who have him at the top of our list.

The problem is the fact that he is a RFA and will command a huge investment in draft picks to get him.
Do you believe that we should do that?


tender is a first and a third i believe

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:38 PM
Great stuff people.
Alot of good discussion centered on the QB issue and we didn't get off on to many tangents.

I have updated the list to look like this.



a1. Jim Sorgi.
UFA. Superbowl experience.
Backup to Peyton.
Is on the Colts for a reason. Right age.
Has experience in a ver of the WCO.
a2.
Anderson.
High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
b1.
Pennington.
I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
b2.
McNabb.
Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
b3.
Losman.
Another one that I left out.
Added because a poster gave a rationale reason to add him.
c.
Nall.
Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
Still an interesting candidate.
d.
Gradkowski.
Not a bad candidate.
TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
e. Wallace.
Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.


Again, thanks for all the great inputs.
My vote will be for Jim Sorgi if the front office (not the Chiller) calls me.


By the way, I didn't shoot Bambi.
;D

MinnesotaFury
11-10-2007, 02:44 PM
Maybe we should be considering QBBC

Bollinger on 1st down
Holcomb on 2nd
Tarvaris on 3rd
If fourth down, Adrian Peterson.

Marrdro
11-10-2007, 02:48 PM
"MinnesotaFury" wrote:


Maybe we should be considering QBBC

Bollinger on 1st down
Holcomb on 2nd
Tarvaris on 3rd
If fourth down, Adrian Peterson.

Now that is NOT a quality input my friend, but very interesting.
;D

The Dropper
11-10-2007, 03:38 PM
Hopefully there'll be a couple of games at the end of the season where the Colts won't have anything to play for (not sure that'll happen as long as they're neck and neck w/ the Patsies for home field advantage but...) so that we'll be able to watch a game or two with Sorgi starting. That way we (and the Front Office) can actually get a decent look at him in game situations.

V4L
11-10-2007, 04:04 PM
If Brooks doesn't play well then we definitley need to upgrade at QB

1. D-Mac
2. Anderson
3. Sorgi

I hate when people say Sorgi sucks.. He is backing up the 2nd best QB in the league.. No way will he get a shot to play..

Shaincoe was a backup and he has been pretty reliable when given the ball

Chester was a backup and he plays well when given a shot

Don't sleep on the backups..

Marrdro
11-11-2007, 05:34 AM
"V4L" wrote:


If Brooks doesn't play well then we definitley need to upgrade at QB

1. D-Mac
2. Anderson
3. Sorgi

I hate when people say Sorgi sucks.. He is backing up the 2nd best QB in the league.. No way will he get a shot to play..

Shaincoe was a backup and he has been pretty reliable when given the ball

Chester was a backup and he plays well when given a shot

Don't sleep on the backups..

Very nice points my friend.

Quick question.
You like McNabb based on experience/what you've seen over a large body of work, but what do you think of the possibility that he might not make it through the season?


Hopefully there'll be a couple of games at the end of the season where the Colts won't have anything to play for (not sure that'll happen as long as they're neck and neck w/ the Patsies for home field advantage but...) so that we'll be able to watch a game or two with Sorgi starting. That way we (and the Front Office) can actually get a decent look at him in game situations.

You just made it into the best column Mr. Dropper.
Very Nice.
;D

mountainviking
11-21-2007, 12:59 PM
All the draft talk has me thinking QB FA options again...

A point on D Anderson I'm not sure was hit...he's got some big, early first round talent that is starting to shine catching the ball for him.
Winslow and Braylon Edwards might not have had the best starts to their careers, but they have had the time to mature in the NFL and get comfortable in their system.
Add to that the HUGELY improved OLINE play that CLE is getting, and I begin to question whether we have the talent around to keep Anderson looking this good.

And, then there is the ratio...20TD/9int this season, 25/17 career with 56% completions each year he has played.
Personally, I'd have to see more consistency to give up a first and third for him...pretty sure I'd rather draft a QB (leaning toward A.Woodson if available) and a WR or DE or RB (if trade CT) or ??? with those picks.

While I don't want to trade away Chester Taylor at all, if we could snag the right QB, it may be worth it.
But, I sure hope we resign MeMo if that happens!!
Hell, Brez should sign him now to a moderate contract and then we've got trade options (and RB options!)

If we're truly interested in the Sorgi argument, we should probably look into Matt Cassell of the Patriots too...he's probably got the right, "team" mentality as well.
Not sure what his contract status is...

And, still draft another project somewhere in the next draft.
Keep TJack, drop Holcomb, keep BB through TC, to help teach the new guys the system, and then maybe give him an asst QB coach job if he doesn't earn the roster spot.

Just some ideas...I sure hope this situation looks better by next preseason!!

SKOL VIKINGS!!

thepacksux
11-21-2007, 01:54 PM
There is one other QB out there with a winning record, has been to multiple pro-bowls, and is a UFA next year.


Daunte Culpepper.
LOL

had to throw it out there since he was forgotten through what i read of this thread.

C Mac D
11-21-2007, 01:55 PM
"thepacksux" wrote:


There is one other QB out there with a winning record, has been to multiple pro-bowls, and is a UFA next year.


Daunte Culpepper.
LOL

had to throw it out there since he was forgotten through what i read of this thread.




We should bring him back as the Vikings' water-boy.

mountainviking
11-21-2007, 02:21 PM
"thepacksux" wrote:


There is one other QB out there with a winning record, has been to multiple pro-bowls, and is a UFA next year.


Daunte Culpepper.
LOL

had to throw it out there since he was forgotten through what i read of this thread.




I thought of that too...pretty funny.
At least it wouldn't cost us any picks or players ;D
Maybe, both sides are humble enough at this point to make it happen...both have had their struggles.
While not my first choice, he would probably be able to get more out of this offense than we've so far seen...don't seem likely though.

Marrdro
11-21-2007, 03:04 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:


All the draft talk has me thinking QB FA options again...

A point on D Anderson I'm not sure was hit...he's got some big, early first round talent that is starting to shine catching the ball for him.
Winslow and Braylon Edwards might not have had the best starts to their careers, but they have had the time to mature in the NFL and get comfortable in their system.
Add to that the HUGELY improved OLINE play that CLE is getting, and I begin to question whether we have the talent around to keep Anderson looking this good.

And, then there is the ratio...20TD/9int this season, 25/17 career with 56% completions each year he has played.
Personally, I'd have to see more consistency to give up a first and third for him...pretty sure I'd rather draft a QB (leaning toward A.Woodson if available) and a WR or DE or RB (if trade CT) or ??? with those picks.

While I don't want to trade away Chester Taylor at all, if we could snag the right QB, it may be worth it.
But, I sure hope we resign MeMo if that happens!!
Hell, Brez should sign him now to a moderate contract and then we've got trade options (and RB options!)

If we're truly interested in the Sorgi argument, we should probably look into Matt Cassell of the Patriots too...he's probably got the right, "team" mentality as well.
Not sure what his contract status is...

And, still draft another project somewhere in the next draft.
Keep TJack, drop Holcomb, keep BB through TC, to help teach the new guys the system, and then maybe give him an asst QB coach job if he doesn't earn the roster spot.

Just some ideas...I sure hope this situation looks better by next preseason!!

SKOL VIKINGS!!

Very interesting stuff my friend.

Matt sounds like a good option when you look at him from a Sorgi kindof arguement but he signed a 4 year 1.439mil contract in 05.
Kindof locks him up (I assume) for at least 2 or 3 years depending on how it was structured.

If we give up a pick for a Vet QB do you think we will still draft one?
Might hurt to much in other areas if we spend 1 draft pick on a Vet and 1 on a actual draftee.

Draftee might not work out.
IMHO if you are gonna invest 2 picks into solving the QB issue you go with someone like a Anderson who you have some sort of metric/measurement to base his future on.

Rationale is kindof like, you've seen him in action at the NFL level but have you seen the prospective draft pick? Kindof like a lower risk reward kindof thing.

As for the talent around him, yes they are producing at numbers higher than they were last year but can't/couldn't some of that be attributed to his talents as well?
A good WR corp makes a QB look good but a good QB will also make the WR look better as well.


Anyway, hard to say with Anderson.
I for one believe we need to do something in the offseason and just about anybody (McNabb, Sorgi (unknown), Anderson) would be good in my book with Sorgi probably being the least expensive both in regards to contract and picks.

Again, very nice stuff.

Marrdro
11-21-2007, 03:06 PM
"mountainviking" wrote:


"thepacksux" wrote:


There is one other QB out there with a winning record, has been to multiple pro-bowls, and is a UFA next year.


Daunte Culpepper.

LOL

had to throw it out there since he was forgotten through what i read of this thread.




I thought of that too...pretty funny.
At least it wouldn't cost us any picks or players ;D
Maybe, both sides are humble enough at this point to make it happen...both have had their struggles.
While not my first choice, he would probably be able to get more out of this offense than we've so far seen...don't seem likely though.

Obviously he is out there and an option, however, I think that to many bridges were burned to ever see that happen again, no matter how desparate we (the team and Pepp) might seem.

He was actually left off the list as a result of the criteria I set initially in the first post.

Purple Floyd
11-21-2007, 09:01 PM
My gut feeling is there is a 95 % probability that we will get McNabb.
This team has a long history of getting older Quarterbacks who are past their prime and on the decline. If the Eagles do release or trade him it will be because he is not the quarterback he used to be. If they believe he is as good as he has ever been they will keep him another year.

So, in the tradition of Joe Kapp, Archie Manning,Jim McMahon,Warren Moon,Randall Cunningham,Jeff George,Brad Jaohnson etc I fully expect him to be on our team next year.

Marrdro
11-22-2007, 08:56 AM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


My gut feeling is there is a 95 % probability that we will get McNabb.
This team has a long history of getting older Quarterbacks who are past their prime and on the decline. If the Eagles do release or trade him it will be because he is not the quarterback he used to be. If they believe he is as good as he has ever been they will keep him another year.

So, in the tradition of Joe Kapp, Archie Manning,Jim McMahon,Warren Moon,Randall Cunningham,Jeff George,Brad Jaohnson etc I fully expect him to be on our team next year.

I might have to eat crow, however, I agree, he is a target looming in the sights of the staff I believe.

I for one would rather see them go with a younger vet, however, pickens are pretty slim (thus the reason for this thread).

As always, very nice post my friend.

The Dropper
12-29-2007, 04:16 PM
http://www.letsgetitright.org/blog/bump.jpg



Tomorrow!

Don't forget to watch our boy Jim Sorgi against the Titans (who are fighting for their playoff lives). Should be an exciting game, and a chance to see if this is a guy the FO wants to pursue.

Marrdro
12-29-2007, 04:34 PM
"The" wrote:


http://www.letsgetitright.org/blog/bump.jpg



Tomorrow!

Don't forget to watch our boy Jim Sorgi against the Titans (who are fighting for their playoff lives). Should be an exciting game, and a chance to see if this is a guy the FO wants to pursue.

I guess he is kindof off the table in my book.
Seems he has signed a contract extension to remain the backup to Peyton.

Kindof a bummer if you ask me as I thought he was a perfect fit to come in and compete.

Thanks for the bump though as I need to go back and update my list a bit on this matter.
;D

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=2888

jessejames09
12-29-2007, 04:38 PM
Best Cast Scenario

#12 Matt Ryan | QB
Full Name: Matt Ryan
Born: May 17, 1985
Hometown: Exton, PA
Height: 6-5
Weight: 218 lbs.


YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP%
YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2004 35 71
350
49.3

4.93


32


2 3 5
91.55
2005 121 195 1514 62.1
7.76
61

8


5


5 135.68
2006 263 427 2942 61.6 6.89
79

15

10

19


126.38
2007 388 654 4507 59.3 6.89
71

31


19


21


127.04

I know no one really wants us to get another rookie qb, but last year we didn't really need a rookie rb. A great QB will win more games than any other positions can.

The Dropper
12-29-2007, 04:44 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"The" wrote:


http://www.letsgetitright.org/blog/bump.jpg



Tomorrow!

Don't forget to watch our boy Jim Sorgi against the Titans (who are fighting for their playoff lives). Should be an exciting game, and a chance to see if this is a guy the FO wants to pursue.

I guess he is kindof off the table in my book.
Seems he has signed a contract extension to remain the backup to Peyton.

Kindof a bummer if you ask me as I thought he was a perfect fit to come in and compete.

Thanks for the bump though as I need to go back and update my list a bit on this matter.
;D

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=2888


Bah! I didn't see that he signed an extension. Too bad for him and us. He coulda been a starter. Maybe.

COJOMAY
12-29-2007, 04:53 PM
Frankly, I don't want to draft a QB and go through the learning curve again. I want someone who can come in an compete right away and teach TJ so he's ready to be a top-notch NFL QB in a couple of years.

tdunc
12-29-2007, 04:57 PM
After watching Ryan last night i was extremely surprised with some of his throws.

He had great touch and is very good at throwing across his body. He can throw and accurate deep ball and make pretty good reads from what i saw.

He won't fall to us but we could package MEmo or Chester and a few other players to move up and get him. I dont think he will take long to develop
Matt looks ready for the NFL and it would be sweet to get him...

not giving up on TJ yet though...

grpape
12-29-2007, 05:07 PM
"tdunc" wrote:


After watching Ryan last night i was extremely surprised with some of his throws.

He had great touch and is very good at throwing across his body. He can throw and accurate deep ball and make pretty good reads from what i saw.

He won't fall to us but we could package MEmo or Chester and a few other players to move up and get him. I dont think he will take long to develop
Matt looks ready for the NFL and it would be sweet to get him...

not giving up on TJ yet though...


Memo (FA). Chester (no way would I want that). Wasn't Leighnart (sp.) supposed to be NFL ready comming out of USC? It just seems that these (NFL ready QBs) still take some time to adjust. As others have voiced, get a vet that can help us win and compete for a couple or years, then hopefully hand the ksys over to TJ (if the coaches still see him as the successor).

ItalianStallion
12-29-2007, 05:11 PM
Good teams usually have a competent veteran (not Brad Johnson) who can play a season or two while they develop you QBs.
Unfortunately for us, we're usually terrible at developing QBs and the veterans we usually sign can't get it done...

kevoncox
12-29-2007, 05:51 PM
Personally, I haven't given up on TJ but I think our best bet is to sign McNabb. I hear alot of names floating around that makes me scratch my head. I have prepared a list of QBS we should not go after and why.

1) D. Anderson - The Browns asking price for him will be outrageous. He will be given the highest free agent tender and will require atleast a 1st and 3rd rounderand a new contract which the Browns can still match. More imoportantly, Why would we want him? He's had wone good year but he is surrounded with talent. A 2000 yard RB, a top 5 WR, a top 3 TE and possibly the 2nd highest paid OL in the league. We will have to dish out a contract about what Romo got to get him. 1 year does not a QB make.

2)
Ramsey - No thank you to ruined goods. Spurrier( spelling) Ruined this guy's career with the fun and gun offense. He lacks confidence. He's a project with upside but a project. No matter what we pay to get him it will just be a small upgrade over TJ.

3) Wallace - I think he is a good backup but not a franchise QB. I believe that Seattle likes him way too much to ever let go of him. We are talking a 2-3rd round pick here.

4) Rosenfels - Played pretty good with Shaub out. However, he was a Top 5 WR and a decent TE to throw to. Add Walter and Davis to the mix and he has too many weapons. I don't know how he is going to fair with our WRs.


I think MCNabb is the best option for us. I know he hasn't been the most healthy but this guy is a top 5 QB when healthy. He has done the most with the least. His current core of WRS are slightly better than ours. He did not have his TE this years and his only weapon is Westbrook. Mcnabb has also reached out to TJACK and has already formed a mentoring relationship with TJACK. McNabb can give us 3 good years and by that time TJack will be ready to play. He will be in his 5th season and should have a firm understanding of Childress's playbook. McNabb will ensure that we won't face 9 in the box because he has shown that he can beat you with his legs and
arm. Has any of the other QBs shown anything like that?

Mr-holland
12-29-2007, 05:59 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


Best Cast Scenario

#12 Matt Ryan | QB
Full Name: Matt Ryan
Born: May 17, 1985
Hometown: Exton, PA
Height: 6-5
Weight: 218 lbs.


YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP%
YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2004 35 71
350
49.3

4.93


32


2 3 5
91.55
2005 121 195 1514 62.1
7.76
61

8


5


5 135.68
2006 263 427 2942 61.6 6.89
79

15

10

19


126.38
2007 388 654 4507 59.3 6.89
71

31


19


21


127.04

I know no one really wants us to get another rookie qb, but last year we didn't really need a rookie rb. A great QB will win more games than any other positions can.

Based on what you know now, you don't think we needed AD?!
CT couldn't play 16 games in a season ( which almost no RB could ) and Childress wants to be a Rush team first so he ( the front office ) knew we needed some depth at the RB position so they picked AD.

on the Qb.. i'd rather bring in a vet than another rookie. With a vet you know what you get

Marrdro
12-29-2007, 06:11 PM
Everyone needs to remember that we are in the QB problem we are in now because the QB position for the Vikes has always been handled with the approach of bring the Vet in.

We did go out and get Culpepper to develop which, depending on who you talked about was met with some success, however, we still didn't pay attention to the position after that.

My way of thinking is that you need to draft your next QB now and keep him on the bench to learn under the Vet/get groomed by the coaching staff to run the system ala Romo.

If we follow that rationale and we draft a guy this year, sit him on the bench and tutor him for 3 years TJ will be in the league going on his 5th year.

Based on his perpensity to get injured, I wouldn't give him more than 5-7 years anyway.
With that said coupled together if we still don't know what we will have at the end of next year I look for the staff to do two things....

A.
Shit can BB and KH and go get us a serviceable vet that can run this system.
Heck it would be a plus if he could actually be a guy who was good enough to compete for the starting job.

B.
Draft another young guy to sit on the bench and learn for about 3 years.

Why do you think they drafted Thigpen if you think I am that far off?
To let him compete with TJ or to let him learn and be a potential backup/replacement later on after he got his feet under him.

On a side note.
Alot of us, me included have been pretty hard on TJ when in fact he has done a admirable job (even though it isn't up to most of our standards) considering the experience he had coming in and the talent that is around him.

Truth be told I would have thought he would have broke by the first Lions game and been a complete mess but he has stood up well, made a few good throws along with the bad and as I said, done a better job than most thought he would.

kevoncox
12-29-2007, 06:32 PM
Marrdro,
I agree that TJ has taken his lumps and stood up like
a man. However, what I see is a Qb that does not look like an NFL QB. I like they guy and I want him to be succesful but why not bring in McNabb to aid in that growth.

You also mentioned that MIN is in this situation because we didn't nurture home grown Qbs.
I take issue with this statment for 2 reasons.

1) The Vikings approach to Vet QBs would have won us a Championship is not for Red McCombs tight strings. He refused to invest in the Defense because they did not put buts in the seats.

2) Many teams have invested top teir draft picks on QBs and have failed to have any success with them. The fact is QB is probally the most difficult position to gage from college to the pros. I have always believed in Bring in a Vet unless you have a can't miss prospect fall to you in the draft.
Look at the teams with the best Qbs and see what they have gone thru the past years to get there

Cowboys - Remember Q Carter?
Henson?
Bengals - Smith
Chargers - Leaf
Pats - Bishop

Marrdro
12-29-2007, 06:39 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Marrdro,
I agree that TJ has taken his lumps and stood up like
a man. However, what I see is a Qb that does not look like an NFL QB. I like they guy and I want him to be succesful but why not bring in McNabb to aid in that growth.

You also mentioned that MIN is in this situation because we didn't nurture home grown Qbs.
I take issue with this statment for 2 reasons.

1) The Vikings approach to Vet QBs would have won us a Championship is not for Red McCombs tight strings. He refused to invest in the Defense because they did not put buts in the seats.

2) Many teams have invested top teir draft picks on QBs and have failed to have any success with them. The fact is QB is probally the most difficult position to gage from college to the pros. I have always believed in Bring in a Vet unless you have a can't miss prospect fall to you in the draft.
Look at the teams with the best Qbs and see what they have gone thru the past years to get there

Cowboys - Remember Q Carter?
Henson?
Bengals - Smith
Chargers - Leaf
Pats - Bishop


Good stuff my friend.

I agree with you on the whole defense things and mentioned Daunte.

Additionally I am all for bringing in a Vet.
It is my number 2 want behind a DE. Additionally I should have been clearer, I don't want them to use a top pick for a QB.
I have said it in other threads somewere in the mid to late rounds I think should suffice.

I never ever ever ever ever would want them to draft a QB with a top pick.
As you said, to big of a risk which would/could cripple a team.

Take TJ for example.
Even though we goofed and took him earlier than we should have, he isn't that big of an investment and should, if nothing else be a serviceable backup for years to come.

I kindof am leaning to the fact that even though it has been a rough two years he has shown that he can make throws, read the D and hasn't lost it (mentally) after getting thrown to the wolves.
He might just turn into someting special.

Again, good points my friend.
I think we almost agree on this one.
;D

jessejames09
12-29-2007, 07:00 PM
"Mr-holland" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


Best Cast Scenario

#12 Matt Ryan | QB
Full Name: Matt Ryan
Born: May 17, 1985
Hometown: Exton, PA
Height: 6-5
Weight: 218 lbs.


YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP%
YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2004 35 71
350
49.3

4.93


32


2 3 5
91.55
2005 121 195 1514 62.1
7.76
61

8


5


5 135.68
2006 263 427 2942 61.6 6.89
79

15

10

19


126.38
2007 388 654 4507 59.3 6.89
71

31


19


21


127.04

I know no one really wants us to get another rookie qb, but last year we didn't really need a rookie rb. A great QB will win more games than any other positions can.

Based on what you know now, you don't think we needed AD?!
CT couldn't play 16 games in a season ( which almost no RB could ) and Childress wants to be a Rush team first so he ( the front office ) knew we needed some depth at the RB position so they picked AD.

on the Qb.. i'd rather bring in a vet than another rookie. With a vet you know what you get


I'm saying last years runningback situation heading into the draft is like this years QB situation if Ryan is within reach.

No RB wasn't our main need going into the draft, in fact we only drafted one so high because it was Adrian Peterson. You think we would have drafted lynch if AD was gone? This year QB isn't our biggest need, but if Ryan falls to us we will make an exception.

Not once did i say AD isn't the cornerstone of the franchise, hell he might even be god himself.Basically we have to make exceptions to our needs to strive for overall greatness.

Based on what I know you're jumping to conclusions before rationally thinking things over.

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 02:00 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Marrdro,

I agree that TJ has taken his lumps and stood up like
a man. However, what I see is a Qb that does not look like an NFL QB. I like they guy and I want him to be succesful but why not bring in McNabb to aid in that growth.


TJ will either grow into the role next year or he never will. Next year will be his third and if he is not serviceable by then, more years will not change that.


You also mentioned that MIN is in this situation because we didn't nurture home grown Qbs.
I take issue with this statement for 2 reasons.

1) The Vikings approach to Vet QBs would have won us a Championship is not for Red McCombs tight strings. He refused to invest in the Defense because they did not put buts in the seats.


Historically the Vikings either have a great offense or a great defense, but they never have both. In the 70's we came close and had a great defense and good offense.


2) Many teams have invested top teir draft picks on QBs and have failed to have any success with them. The fact is QB is probally the most difficult position to gage from college to the pros. I have always believed in Bring in a Vet unless you have a can't miss prospect fall to you in the draft.
Look at the teams with the best Qbs and see what they have gone thru the past years to get there


In recent memory we have gone that way and brought in the following QB's:

Archie Manning
Warren Moon
Andre Ware
Jeff George
Randall Cunningham
Jim McMahon
Bubby Brister


We have been so eager to win now instead of waiting for a QB to develop that we have have drafted Brad Johnson and Rich Gannon and let both go to other teams where both ended up in the SB against each other while their replacement here was watching the game on TV.

The teams you listed below had QB's that didn't work out, but I put the name of a player that each team has drafted that are doing very well right now either for that team or another one.

Cowboys - Remember Q Carter?
Henson?
Romo
Bengals - Smith Palmer
Chargers - Leaf Brees,Rivers
Pats - Bishop Brady

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 02:03 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Marrdro,

I agree that TJ has taken his lumps and stood up like
a man. However, what I see is a Qb that does not look like an NFL QB. I like they guy and I want him to be succesful but why not bring in McNabb to aid in that growth.


TJ will either grow into the role next year or he never will. Next year will be his third and if he is not serviceable by then, more years will not change that.


You also mentioned that MIN is in this situation because we didn't nurture home grown Qbs.
I take issue with this statement for 2 reasons.

1) The Vikings approach to Vet QBs would have won us a Championship is not for Red McCombs tight strings. He refused to invest in the Defense because they did not put buts in the seats.


Historically the Vikings either have a great offense or a great defense, but they never have both. In the 70's we came close and had a great defense and good offense.


2) Many teams have invested top teir draft picks on QBs and have failed to have any success with them. The fact is QB is probally the most difficult position to gage from college to the pros. I have always believed in Bring in a Vet unless you have a can't miss prospect fall to you in the draft.
Look at the teams with the best Qbs and see what they have gone thru the past years to get there


In recent memory we have gone that way and brought in the following QB's:

Archie Manning
Warren Moon
Andre Ware
Jeff George
Randall Cunningham
Jim McMahon
Bubby Brister


We have been so eager to win now instead of waiting for a QB to develop that we have have drafted Brad Johnson and Rich Gannon and let both go to other teams where both ended up in the SB against each other while their replacement here was watching the game on TV.

The teams you listed below had QB's that didn't work out, but I put the name of a player that each team has drafted that are doing very well right now either for that team or another one.

Cowboys - Remember Q Carter?
Henson?
Romo
Bengals - Smith Palmer
Chargers - Leaf Brees,Rivers
Pats - Bishop Brady



Good stuff my friend.
Especially the bolded part.
Wish I would have thought of that.
Nice.

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 02:17 PM
Would anyone really be willing to give up a 1st round pick, let alone 2 to get a frequently injured QB? IMO that would go against everything this team has been doing in putting together a foundation. And the Eagles are asking for 2 firsts which IMHO would be irresponsible to give up.

I also think Anderson is going to be too expensive to go after. I did read that Sorgi,though under contract, may request a trade if he finds a team that is interested in allowing him to compete for a starting job and he would certainly go for less than McNabb. Maybe a late 1st day pick or a player and later pick.

But at this point we have invested in TJ heavily and I want them to develop him and put all of their efforts into him unless they decide that he is not what they thought he was and that they determine that he doesn't have what it takes to be a starter. If they make that call, then they will need to bring in a young guy for the long term

Ltrey33
12-30-2007, 02:20 PM
There are several respectable quarterbacks coming out this year in the first three rounds of the draft. IMO, we need to spend a draft pick on one of them. Then we have a three-way competition between Tarvaris, a vet (whether its BB or someone else) and the rookie. Competition is good AND so are options.

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 03:05 PM
"Ltrey" wrote:


There are several respectable quarterbacks coming out this year in the first three rounds of the draft. IMO, we need to spend a draft pick on one of them. Then we have a three-way competition between Tarvaris, a vet (whether its BB or someone else) and the rookie. Competition is good AND so are options.

And, as I've said numerous times, you need to start looking at TJ's replacement now.

Give the kid at least some time on the bench to learn.
If TJ fails next year the kid has at least one year in the system before he is thrown to the wolves.

But I will caveat that with I don't want this staff to use thier 1rst, 2nd or 3rd round picks on a QB.
That should go to depth/backups at other positions that we have players that are long in the tooth.

grpape
12-30-2007, 03:06 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


Marrdro,
I agree that TJ has taken his lumps and stood up like
a man. However, what I see is a Qb that does not look like an NFL QB. I like they guy and I want him to be succesful but why not bring in McNabb to aid in that growth.

You also mentioned that MIN is in this situation because we didn't nurture home grown Qbs.
I take issue with this statment for 2 reasons.

1) The Vikings approach to Vet QBs would have won us a Championship is not for Red McCombs tight strings. He refused to invest in the Defense because they did not put buts in the seats.

2) Many teams have invested top teir draft picks on QBs and have failed to have any success with them. The fact is QB is probally the most difficult position to gage from college to the pros. I have always believed in Bring in a Vet unless you have a can't miss prospect fall to you in the draft.
Look at the teams with the best Qbs and see what they have gone thru the past years to get there

Cowboys - Remember Q Carter?
Henson?
Bengals - Smith
Chargers - Leaf
Pats - Bishop



I have to pin the "trophy case empty" on Anderson. It wasn't Red that missed the FG. So sad...So sad... :'(

TheVike
12-30-2007, 03:09 PM
How bout this line all our backs incl TJ back there and direct snap to a diff one each time!!!!!
TR CT and AP and just let en run... I think it would work a lot better than our non existent passing game no? :)

grpape
12-30-2007, 03:11 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Marrdro,
I agree that TJ has taken his lumps and stood up like
a man. However, what I see is a Qb that does not look like an NFL QB. I like they guy and I want him to be succesful but why not bring in McNabb to aid in that growth.

You also mentioned that MIN is in this situation because we didn't nurture home grown Qbs.
I take issue with this statment for 2 reasons.

1) The Vikings approach to Vet QBs would have won us a Championship is not for Red McCombs tight strings. He refused to invest in the Defense because they did not put buts in the seats.

2) Many teams have invested top teir draft picks on QBs and have failed to have any success with them. The fact is QB is probally the most difficult position to gage from college to the pros. I have always believed in Bring in a Vet unless you have a can't miss prospect fall to you in the draft.
Look at the teams with the best Qbs and see what they have gone thru the past years to get there

Cowboys - Remember Q Carter?
Henson?
Bengals - Smith
Chargers - Leaf
Pats - Bishop


Good stuff my friend.

I agree with you on the whole defense things and mentioned Daunte.

Additionally I am all for bringing in a Vet.
It is my number 2 want behind a DE. Additionally I should have been clearer, I don't want them to use a top pick for a QB.
I have said it in other threads somewere in the mid to late rounds I think should suffice.

I never ever ever ever ever would want them to draft a QB with a top pick.
As you said, to big of a risk which would/could cripple a team.

Take TJ for example.
Even though we goofed and took him earlier than we should have, he isn't that big of an investment and should, if nothing else be a serviceable backup for years to come.

I kindof am leaning to the fact that even though it has been a rough two years he has shown that he can make throws, read the D and hasn't lost it (mentally) after getting thrown to the wolves.
He might just turn into someting special.

Again, good points my friend.
I think we almost agree on this one.

;D



Remember the whole "Draft Omar Jacobs" chant that was floating around the boards. Just imagine if we chose this guy instead of TJ. You just never know with QBs. How is the kid that was playing in the Dll championship game? He wasn't on the team that has won the past three years in a row. I think he is supposed to be a pretty good QB.

COJOMAY
12-30-2007, 03:14 PM
I was one of the people leading the "Draft Omar Jacobs" chant. Boy am I glad Childress didn't listen to me!
:D

DaVizzles
12-30-2007, 03:14 PM
Here is one guy that we could possibly bring in as a project QB much like we did Tarvaris. I dont think we need to draft a QB until the 5th round or later. This guy might rise up the draft charts like Tarvaris did, but if somehow he slips to the 5th round or later we should take a chance on him.

Josh Johnson QB, San Diego
He had 43 touchdown passes and only 1 INT..yes only 1.He ran a pro-style offense under Jim Harbaugh. Apparently has a good mind for the game. Very little is known about him. Has faced very poor competition.

here is his scouting report...http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=61532

TheVike
12-30-2007, 03:15 PM
We have traditionally always had great QB's why NOT now?????
I kept hating on all the media this past weeek owhn they were talking about the greatest teams in football esp those that werer undefeated yet didn t mention the Vike s 98 team except for the broken records last night!
We need to go out and get a proven veteran NOT TOO OLD to be our QB and mentor whoever!

kevoncox
12-30-2007, 03:17 PM
"grpape" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Marrdro,
I agree that TJ has taken his lumps and stood up like
a man. However, what I see is a Qb that does not look like an NFL QB. I like they guy and I want him to be succesful but why not bring in McNabb to aid in that growth.

You also mentioned that MIN is in this situation because we didn't nurture home grown Qbs.
I take issue with this statment for 2 reasons.

1) The Vikings approach to Vet QBs would have won us a Championship is not for Red McCombs tight strings. He refused to invest in the Defense because they did not put buts in the seats.

2) Many teams have invested top teir draft picks on QBs and have failed to have any success with them. The fact is QB is probally the most difficult position to gage from college to the pros. I have always believed in Bring in a Vet unless you have a can't miss prospect fall to you in the draft.
Look at the teams with the best Qbs and see what they have gone thru the past years to get there

Cowboys - Remember Q Carter?
Henson?
Bengals - Smith
Chargers - Leaf
Pats - Bishop


Good stuff my friend.

I agree with you on the whole defense things and mentioned Daunte.

Additionally I am all for bringing in a Vet.
It is my number 2 want behind a DE. Additionally I should have been clearer, I don't want them to use a top pick for a QB.
I have said it in other threads somewere in the mid to late rounds I think should suffice.

I never ever ever ever ever would want them to draft a QB with a top pick.
As you said, to big of a risk which would/could cripple a team.

Take TJ for example.
Even though we goofed and took him earlier than we should have, he isn't that big of an investment and should, if nothing else be a serviceable backup for years to come.

I kindof am leaning to the fact that even though it has been a rough two years he has shown that he can make throws, read the D and hasn't lost it (mentally) after getting thrown to the wolves.
He might just turn into someting special.

Again, good points my friend.
I think we almost agree on this one.

;D



Remember the whole "Draft Omar Jacobs" chant that was floating around the boards. Just imagine if we chose this guy instead of TJ. You just never know with QBs. How is the kid that was playing in the Dll championship game? He wasn't on the team that has won the past three years in a row. I think he is supposed to be a pretty good QB.


Omar jacobs....Just say no.
Are you talking abou the QB from Deleware? Yes, I heard the same. Can't say I have ever seen him play.
Like I said, I don't want to move on from Tjack yet. He needs time to completely fix his mechanics when under pressure. I seems o me when protected he is solid. However, under pressure his mechanics revert back to college/sub college levels. I still say bring in a solid Qb that can win games on his arm and keep defenses honest whule Jack learns.

grpape
12-30-2007, 03:19 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


I was one of the people leading the "Draft Omar Jacobs" chant. Boy am I glad Childress didn't listen to me!
:D

Don't worry for a while I bought into it also! I even told my Bro (who is a huge Steeler fan), that the team drafted Omar. He responded whith "Omar who?" I told him just wait and see Bro, just wait and see. Every Sun. he reminds me about that "Great Prediction". ;D

DaVizzles
12-30-2007, 03:20 PM
"DaVizzles" wrote:


Here is one guy that we could possibly bring in as a project QB much like we did Tarvaris. I dont think we need to draft a QB until the 5th round or later. This guy might rise up the draft charts like Tarvaris did, but if somehow he slips to the 5th round or later we should take a chance on him.

Josh Johnson QB, San Diego
He had 43 touchdown passes and only 1 INT..yes only 1.He ran a pro-style offense under Jim Harbaugh. Apparently has a good mind for the game. Very little is known about him. Has faced very poor competition.

here is his scouting report...http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=61532




Here is the only video I could find of him

Rqf_nj8OLDY

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 03:20 PM
"DaVizzles" wrote:


Here is one guy that we could possibly bring in as a project QB much like we did Tarvaris. I dont think we need to draft a QB until the 5th round or later. This guy might rise up the draft charts like Tarvaris did, but if somehow he slips to the 5th round or later we should take a chance on him.

Josh Johnson QB, San Diego
He had 43 touchdown passes and only 1 INT..yes only 1.He ran a pro-style offense under Jim Harbaugh. Apparently has a good mind for the game. Very little is known about him. Has faced very poor competition.

here is his scouting report...http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=61532



Very nice.
A bit light for me but he can add weight after he is drafted.


By the way, this is a prime example of how many players are out there that none of us (well most of us) have never heard of.

That is why I get so tired of hearing the same old lame names thrown out there by everyone.

Great stuff Davizzz.
;D

kevoncox
12-30-2007, 03:21 PM
"DaVizzles" wrote:


Here is one guy that we could possibly bring in as a project QB much like we did Tarvaris. I dont think we need to draft a QB until the 5th round or later. This guy might rise up the draft charts like Tarvaris did, but if somehow he slips to the 5th round or later we should take a chance on him.

Josh Johnson QB, San Diego
He had 43 touchdown passes and only 1 INT..yes only 1.He ran a pro-style offense under Jim Harbaugh. Apparently has a good mind for the game. Very little is known about him. Has faced very poor competition.

here is his scouting report...http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=61532



Lets wait for the east west game. he's going to be in it. I'll like to see how he plays against the best.

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 03:22 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"grpape" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Marrdro,
I agree that TJ has taken his lumps and stood up like
a man. However, what I see is a Qb that does not look like an NFL QB. I like they guy and I want him to be succesful but why not bring in McNabb to aid in that growth.

You also mentioned that MIN is in this situation because we didn't nurture home grown Qbs.
I take issue with this statment for 2 reasons.

1) The Vikings approach to Vet QBs would have won us a Championship is not for Red McCombs tight strings. He refused to invest in the Defense because they did not put buts in the seats.

2) Many teams have invested top teir draft picks on QBs and have failed to have any success with them. The fact is QB is probally the most difficult position to gage from college to the pros. I have always believed in Bring in a Vet unless you have a can't miss prospect fall to you in the draft.
Look at the teams with the best Qbs and see what they have gone thru the past years to get there

Cowboys - Remember Q Carter?
Henson?
Bengals - Smith
Chargers - Leaf
Pats - Bishop


Good stuff my friend.

I agree with you on the whole defense things and mentioned Daunte.

Additionally I am all for bringing in a Vet.
It is my number 2 want behind a DE. Additionally I should have been clearer, I don't want them to use a top pick for a QB.
I have said it in other threads somewere in the mid to late rounds I think should suffice.

I never ever ever ever ever would want them to draft a QB with a top pick.
As you said, to big of a risk which would/could cripple a team.

Take TJ for example.
Even though we goofed and took him earlier than we should have, he isn't that big of an investment and should, if nothing else be a serviceable backup for years to come.

I kindof am leaning to the fact that even though it has been a rough two years he has shown that he can make throws, read the D and hasn't lost it (mentally) after getting thrown to the wolves.
He might just turn into someting special.

Again, good points my friend.
I think we almost agree on this one.

;D



Remember the whole "Draft Omar Jacobs" chant that was floating around the boards. Just imagine if we chose this guy instead of TJ. You just never know with QBs. How is the kid that was playing in the Dll championship game? He wasn't on the team that has won the past three years in a row. I think he is supposed to be a pretty good QB.


Omar jacobs....Just say no.
Are you talking abou the QB from Deleware? Yes, I heard the same. Can't say I have ever seen him play.
Like I said, I don't want to move on from Tjack yet. He needs time to completely fix his mechanics when under pressure. I seems o me when protected he is solid. However, under pressure his mechanics revert back to college/sub college levels. I still say bring in a solid Qb that can win games on his arm and keep defenses honest whule Jack learns.

A very good observation my friend. I worry though that they should have fixed most of that by now.
Maybe he was as raw/green as they said.
;D

grpape
12-30-2007, 03:32 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


"grpape" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


Marrdro,
I agree that TJ has taken his lumps and stood up like
a man. However, what I see is a Qb that does not look like an NFL QB. I like they guy and I want him to be succesful but why not bring in McNabb to aid in that growth.

You also mentioned that MIN is in this situation because we didn't nurture home grown Qbs.
I take issue with this statment for 2 reasons.

1) The Vikings approach to Vet QBs would have won us a Championship is not for Red McCombs tight strings. He refused to invest in the Defense because they did not put buts in the seats.

2) Many teams have invested top teir draft picks on QBs and have failed to have any success with them. The fact is QB is probally the most difficult position to gage from college to the pros. I have always believed in Bring in a Vet unless you have a can't miss prospect fall to you in the draft.
Look at the teams with the best Qbs and see what they have gone thru the past years to get there

Cowboys - Remember Q Carter?
Henson?
Bengals - Smith
Chargers - Leaf
Pats - Bishop


Good stuff my friend.

I agree with you on the whole defense things and mentioned Daunte.

Additionally I am all for bringing in a Vet.
It is my number 2 want behind a DE. Additionally I should have been clearer, I don't want them to use a top pick for a QB.
I have said it in other threads somewere in the mid to late rounds I think should suffice.

I never ever ever ever ever would want them to draft a QB with a top pick.
As you said, to big of a risk which would/could cripple a team.

Take TJ for example.
Even though we goofed and took him earlier than we should have, he isn't that big of an investment and should, if nothing else be a serviceable backup for years to come.

I kindof am leaning to the fact that even though it has been a rough two years he has shown that he can make throws, read the D and hasn't lost it (mentally) after getting thrown to the wolves.
He might just turn into someting special.

Again, good points my friend.
I think we almost agree on this one.

;D



Remember the whole "Draft Omar Jacobs" chant that was floating around the boards. Just imagine if we chose this guy instead of TJ. You just never know with QBs. How is the kid that was playing in the Dll championship game? He wasn't on the team that has won the past three years in a row. I think he is supposed to be a pretty good QB.


Omar jacobs....Just say no.
Are you talking abou the QB from Deleware? Yes, I heard the same. Can't say I have ever seen him play.
Like I said, I don't want to move on from Tjack yet. He needs time to completely fix his mechanics when under pressure. I seems o me when protected he is solid. However, under pressure his mechanics revert back to college/sub college levels. I still say bring in a solid Qb that can win games on his arm and keep defenses honest whule Jack learns.

That might be the team. I don't know anymore. So many college teams to try and watch. Either way, this guy had a cannon for an arm and made some across the field throw with zip. He also was able to hit his receivers right out of the break. This kid is a pocket passer and looks about the same size as Ryan. I was impressed even if he lost the game.

I'm from Hawaii and would love to see Colt drop far enough for us to draft him. There are plenty of "knocks" on him, but trust me, he is a winner. Forget the "system" or "side arm throwing". I have seen him hit receivers with the best accuracy (slants, deep balls, etc,). I have also seen him calmly rally the team back from a three TD deficit without even sweating it. I would also be very happy if the team picked up any of the three receivers. Rivers is a big receiver with "great hands" and is not affraid to go across the middle (seen him make some tough catches in front of the LBs and get de-cleated). Bess is a great slot man that is built like Rison. He would be a great PR/KR guy that will also go across the middle without fear. Well that's the end of my sales pitch ;D

TheVike
12-30-2007, 03:33 PM
I m game why not?

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 07:03 PM
Jackson has done a hell of a good job of bringing the team back against Denver. He has looked impressive on the last 2 drives. Give him a few WR's and beef up the line and we are set

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 07:06 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Jackson has done a hell of a good job of bringing the team back against Denver. He has looked impressive on the last 2 drives. Give him a few WR's and beef up the line and we are set

so 2 good drives and now he is the Qb of the future? Give me a break. A Qb is not judged on 2 drives. Where has he been all game?

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 07:09 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Jackson has done a hell of a good job of bringing the team back against Denver. He has looked impressive on the last 2 drives. Give him a few WR's and beef up the line and we are set

so 2 good drives and now he is the Qb of the future? Give me a break. A Qb is not judged on 2 drives. Where has he been all game?


Trying to find someone who can catch

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 07:17 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


Jackson has done a hell of a good job of bringing the team back against Denver. He has looked impressive on the last 2 drives. Give him a few WR's and beef up the line and we are set

so 2 good drives and now he is the Qb of the future? Give me a break. A Qb is not judged on 2 drives. Where has he been all game?


Trying to find someone who can catch


Would that be the drops by T-won't or all of the badly thrown balls? ???

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 07:22 PM
I suppose the sack and fumble was his fault too. Cook was standing there in open space while the blitzer went right by him and hit TJ

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 07:27 PM
How was it not his fault? he dropped it! Please tell me you did not just ask that question. God just like the rest of the supporters make excuse after excuse for horrible QB. T_won't had some drops big surprise there but all of the badly thrown balls?

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 07:29 PM
"Garland" wrote:


How was it not his fault? he dropped it! Please tell me you did not just ask that question. God just like the rest of the supporters make excuse after excuse for horrible QB. T_won't had some drops big surprise there but all of the badly thrown balls?



You think McNugget or any other QB is going to be able to make a play when the line fails to pick up a blitz and they let a LB come through clean? Give me a break

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 07:47 PM
So you are saying that if a QB fumbles the ball its not his fault? So whos faukt ws it when Ct fumbled those 2 balls today? Whos fault was it when AD fumbled the ball today?
Dude seriously were in the car smoking with Darrion Scott or Dwight Smith?

Mikecarter81
12-30-2007, 07:47 PM
"Garland" wrote:


How was it not his fault? he dropped it! Please tell me you did not just ask that question. God just like the rest of the supporters make excuse after excuse for horrible QB. T_won't had some drops big surprise there but all of the badly thrown balls?


Guys don't give Garland Greene a hard time.
He can't help his simple minded hatred of T Jack.
Much like a fly to the light he is driven by a insatiable urge to hate on him.
He can't help it!


I still stand by the fact he is improving, and right now we don't have another option at QB.
Want to talk retarded go and trade 1 or 2 first round picks for a QB that hasn't made it a full season his last three years.

Mike

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 07:48 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


How was it not his fault? he dropped it! Please tell me you did not just ask that question. God just like the rest of the supporters make excuse after excuse for horrible QB. T_won't had some drops big surprise there but all of the badly thrown balls?


Guys don't give Garland Greene a hard time.
He can't help his simple minded hatred of T Jack.
Much like a fly to the light he is driven by a insatiable urge to hate on him.
He can't help it!


I still stand by the fact he is improving, and right now we don't have another option at QB.
Want to talk retarded go and trade 1 or 2 first round picks for a QB that hasn't made it a full season his last three years.

Mike



Ding.

We have a winner here.

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 07:52 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


How was it not his fault? he dropped it! Please tell me you did not just ask that question. God just like the rest of the supporters make excuse after excuse for horrible QB. T_won't had some drops big surprise there but all of the badly thrown balls?


Guys don't give Garland Greene a hard time.
He can't help his simple minded hatred of T Jack.
Much like a fly to the light he is driven by a insatiable urge to hate on him.
He can't help it!


I still stand by the fact he is improving, and right now we don't have another option at QB.

Want to talk retarded go and trade 1 or 2 first round picks for a QB that hasn't made it a full season his last three years.

Mike


Simple Minded how? Someone playing bad is supposed to be Ok? So its ok when Williamson plays bad everyione rips on him but when T-joke Does everyone makes excuses.

You are right we don't have anything better. So we should just except that? I guess Mediocre is Ok for everyone.

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 07:52 PM
Look, I got 17 and a half pages of real football discussion on the QB issues.
Lets not derail this thread with crap about individual play that happened tonight.
That is for another thread.


Seriously.

The Dropper
12-30-2007, 07:53 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Look, I got 17 and a half pages of real football discussion on the QB issues.
Lets not derail this thread with crap about individual play that happened tonight.
That is for another thread.


Seriously.


Word.

Hey Marr, notice how many users are on after the loss?
::)

Mikecarter81
12-30-2007, 07:54 PM
If I could be really objective.
It would of been nice to see T Jack play the last couple games with Sidney Rice.
They seemed to have a real nice connection going on for sure.

Mike

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 07:55 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


How was it not his fault? he dropped it! Please tell me you did not just ask that question. God just like the rest of the supporters make excuse after excuse for horrible QB. T_won't had some drops big surprise there but all of the badly thrown balls?


Guys don't give Garland Greene a hard time.
He can't help his simple minded hatred of T Jack.
Much like a fly to the light he is driven by a insatiable urge to hate on him.
He can't help it!


I still stand by the fact he is improving, and right now we don't have another option at QB.

Want to talk retarded go and trade 1 or 2 first round picks for a QB that hasn't made it a full season his last three years.

Mike



Ding.

We have a winner here.


Since when do we have to trade first round picks to get a QB?
So we should stick with a poor playing QB that has't even made it through 1 season for the exac same reason?

V4L
12-30-2007, 07:55 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


How was it not his fault? he dropped it! Please tell me you did not just ask that question. God just like the rest of the supporters make excuse after excuse for horrible QB. T_won't had some drops big surprise there but all of the badly thrown balls?


Guys don't give Garland Greene a hard time.
He can't help his simple minded hatred of T Jack.
Much like a fly to the light he is driven by a insatiable urge to hate on him.
He can't help it!


I still stand by the fact he is improving, and right now we don't have another option at QB.
Want to talk Challenged Hillbilly Lover'd go and trade 1 or 2 first round picks for a QB that hasn't made it a full season his last three years.

Mike



Ding.

We have a winner here.


Since when do we have to trade first round picks to get a QB?
So we should stick with a poor playing QB that has't even made it through 1 season for the exac same reason?



No, we just don't have to give up multiple picks for one

Ranger
12-30-2007, 07:56 PM
"The" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Look, I got 17 and a half pages of real football discussion on the QB issues.
Lets not derail this thread with crap about individual play that happened tonight.
That is for another thread.


Seriously.


Word.

Hey Marr, notice how many users are on after the loss?
::)


Weird, isn't it?
I'm being serious.
I'd MUCH rather log on and shoot the shit after a blowout win.

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 08:00 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


How was it not his fault? he dropped it! Please tell me you did not just ask that question. God just like the rest of the supporters make excuse after excuse for horrible QB. T_won't had some drops big surprise there but all of the badly thrown balls?


Guys don't give Garland Greene a hard time.
He can't help his simple minded hatred of T Jack.
Much like a fly to the light he is driven by a insatiable urge to hate on him.
He can't help it!


I still stand by the fact he is improving, and right now we don't have another option at QB.

Want to talk Challenged Hillbilly Lover'd go and trade 1 or 2 first round picks for a QB that hasn't made it a full season his last three years.

Mike



Ding.

We have a winner here.


Since when do we have to trade first round picks to get a QB?
So we should stick with a poor playing QB that has't even made it through 1 season for the exac same reason?



No, we just don't have to give up multiple picks for one


I don't think we should have to nor do I think we should. between the draft and who will be available, and I think there will be a few QB's realesed than the ones that we know will be UFA.

Mikecarter81
12-30-2007, 08:02 PM
Well who do you expect to be availabe that is that much of a step up?
Mike

V4L
12-30-2007, 08:02 PM
I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 08:08 PM
"The" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Look, I got 17 and a half pages of real football discussion on the QB issues.
Lets not derail this thread with crap about individual play that happened tonight.
That is for another thread.


Seriously.


Word.

Hey Marr, notice how many users are on after the loss?
::)

I hear ya my friend and they all post the same mindless drivel that they were posting after the first Lions loss.

God I hate people who don't have the faintest clue about the game.

I more pissed about that on here than I do a loss. (No smiley face).

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 08:08 PM
"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 08:10 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your ass like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.

V4L
12-30-2007, 08:10 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?



Matt Shaub took a first rounder

And I don't think any of the FA's out there would really improve our team

And why can't you accept that Tarvaris is making strides? Maybe slower then you would like but he is a work in progress

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 08:14 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?



Matt Shaub took a first rounder

And I don't think any of the FA's out there would really improve our team

And why can't you accept that Tarvaris is making strides? Maybe slower then you would like but he is a work in progress


So I ask again why is mediocre acceptable?

Honest questin? Do you really think the Vikings can afford to go through growing pains With T-Joke in the hope that he will one day, one season finally play at an good level?


There was alot of the same arguments made about Williamson going into this season. "Wr's need 3 good years to develop" Well Do you think at this point its going to happen?

ultravikingfan
12-30-2007, 08:15 PM
"The" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Look, I got 17 and a half pages of real football discussion on the QB issues.
Lets not derail this thread with crap about individual play that happened tonight.
That is for another thread.


Seriously.


Word.

Hey Marr, notice how many users are on after the loss?
::)


Did it take you this long to notice?
;D

Every year, after a loss we are packed and things are busy for the next 2 days.

When we win, it is a lot more quiet.

Such a shame.


It's easy to bash and look like a dipshit without providing any intelligent insight.
Most of it is we suck, fire Chilly, blah, blah, blah.

I am sure those of you who are regulars know what I am talking about,

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 08:15 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your ass like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

Mikecarter81
12-30-2007, 08:17 PM
Marrdo

I'll answer the Cleo lemon question!
People were kicking their butts so bad he got to see a lot of prevent defense early and often.
I'm sorry those numbers are inflated.

mike

V4L
12-30-2007, 08:18 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?



Matt Shaub took a first rounder

And I don't think any of the FA's out there would really improve our team

And why can't you accept that Tarvaris is making strides? Maybe slower then you would like but he is a work in progress


So I ask again why is mediocre acceptable?

Honest questin? Do you really think the Vikings can afford to go through growing pains With T-Joke in the hope that he will one day, one season finally play at an good level?


There was alot of the same arguments made about Williamson going into this season. "Wr's need 3 good years to develop" Well Do you think at this point its going to happen?



It is at this point yes.. He is our best option bro.. Do you not get that? Are you that stuburn?

A rookie QB COULD help us.. But most likely they would go through the same growing pains and wouldn't help

A back up realeased to FA would also be very rookie like

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 08:19 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your jiggly butt like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

I'm to mad over the game to be messed with like this.
(not talking about you Uffda)
;D

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 08:21 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your jiggly butt like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

I'm to mad over the game to be messed with like this.
(not talking about you Uffda)
;D



OK


FIRE CHILDRESS!!!!



;D ;D

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 08:25 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your jiggly butt like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

I'm to mad over the game to be messed with like this.
(not talking about you Uffda)
;D


How about this scenario:

we get Todd Collins. He took 12 years to develop and is now looking real good. He has been healthy so injuries are not a question mark and he won't cost us high draft picks.

If he plays as long as the recently retired Vinnie Testaverde and Jackson takes as long to develop as Collins, we will be set at QB until 2029 ;D

Frostbite
12-30-2007, 08:26 PM
T.jack has a lot of work to do for sure. Not going to argue that point. Today was his 14th NFL start and some folks here want to crucify him for not taking us the Big Show?? He's one (Inexperienced) player on a team that in the last 3 games made how many TOs?? Granted some of them were his fault. That's why I do believe 08 will be his bubble season. If he works hard in the off-season and comes into camp making believers out of the Coaches with performance and good mental decisions/focus etc....I believe he can win the starting job and have a good season. If not he will turn out to be a bust. 08 is the fish or cut bait year for T.Jack.

He hasn't gotten a lot of help from B.Childress or the O-coordinator most of the season either. Often facing 3rd down and long after predictable running plays on 1st and 2nd down forced him to try and make plays in deperate situations. That doesn't excuse his poor throws of decisions, but better play selection early in games to help him build some confidence with early easy throws against the 8 man stacked box could have helped him and the team a lot.

He did a great job of bringing the team back from behind today. Showed me it's too early to give up on him totally yet.

Cheers!

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 08:27 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:




I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your jiggly butt like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

I'm to mad over the game to be messed with like this.
(not talking about you Uffda)

;D


How about this scenario:

we get Todd Collins. He took 12 years to develop and is now looking real good. He has been healthy so injuries are not a question mark and he won't cost us high draft picks.

If he plays as long as the recently retired Vinnie Testaverde and Jackson takes as long to develop as Collins, we will be set at QB until 2029 ;D

You know you bring up a point I was actually thinking about as I watched him play tonight.

Not so much that I would want him but who is out there lurking that we don't know about anymore.
Some guy that can fit the system but hasn't been in one like ours.

Makes me want to start digging around a bit.

Mikecarter81
12-30-2007, 08:29 PM
You guys are going to laugh, but how about
JP Losman?

Mike

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 08:30 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


You guys are going to laugh, but how about
JP Losman?

Mike

He will be one of my guys I research so no, I aint gonna laugh.

V4L
12-30-2007, 08:31 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


You guys are going to laugh, but how about
JP Losman?

Mike

He will be one of my guys I research so no, I aint gonna laugh.



Cut Holcomb and bring him in

Marrdro
12-30-2007, 08:33 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


You guys are going to laugh, but how about
JP Losman?

Mike

He will be one of my guys I research so no, I aint gonna laugh.



Cut Holcomb and bring him in

I really believe that we will draft a guy in the later rounds and bring in another VET.
To do that both of our backups will have to be cut.

I haven't looked at their contracts yet to see if that is an issue, but if it isn't I bet they are both gone.

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 08:33 PM
"Mikecarter81" wrote:


You guys are going to laugh, but how about
JP Losman?

Mike


Maybe there is hope for Omar Jacobs. I think we can get him cheap

The Dropper
12-30-2007, 08:35 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"The" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Look, I got 17 and a half pages of real football discussion on the QB issues.
Lets not derail this thread with crap about individual play that happened tonight.
That is for another thread.


Seriously.


Word.

Hey Marr, notice how many users are on after the loss?
::)


Did it take you this long to notice?
;D

Every year, after a loss we are packed and things are busy for the next 2 days.

When we win, it is a lot more quiet.

Such a shame.


It's easy to bash and look like a dipshit without providing any intelligent insight.
Most of it is we suck, fire Chilly, blah, blah, blah.

I am sure those of you who are regulars know what I am talking about,



Nah. I noticed before I even joined. It just never ceases to be shocking. Kind of like how I've been a Vikes fan for the nearly three decades I've been on this planet, but I'm still shocked when they let me down at clutch moments.
::)

V4L
12-30-2007, 08:35 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Mikecarter81" wrote:


You guys are going to laugh, but how about
JP Losman?

Mike


Maybe there is hope for Omar Jacobs. I think we can get him cheap



Haha!!

I remember I REALLLLLLYYYY wanted to draft him back in the day

Mikecarter81
12-30-2007, 08:36 PM
Wow, I thought the Omar Jacobs for QB sect was officially dead!
Way to bring up a blast from the past!
How about that Sage Rosenfels?

MIke

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 08:38 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?



Matt Shaub took a first rounder

And I don't think any of the FA's out there would really improve our team

And why can't you accept that Tarvaris is making strides? Maybe slower then you would like but he is a work in progress


So I ask again why is mediocre acceptable?

Honest questin? Do you really think the Vikings can afford to go through growing pains With T-Joke in the hope that he will one day, one season finally play at an good level?


There was alot of the same arguments made about Williamson going into this season. "Wr's need 3 good years to develop" Well Do you think at this point its going to happen?



It is at this point yes.. He is our best option bro.. Do you not get that? Are you that stuburn?

A rookie QB COULD help us.. But most likely they would go through the same growing pains and wouldn't help

A back up realeased to FA would also be very rookie like



So looking for something better is wrong? Isn't that why Marr started this thread in the first place. I get it. I don't think you do. I know we can do nothing about it now. So lets look at the future, and a possible solution. Is there something better? there has to be but who and what that is is way to early to tell. There will be a player or 2 that will be released that we have no idea that they will. And it is way to ealy to target anyone in the draft of FA. Do I have the answer No but I know enough that there is a better option out there, and that the Vikings Like it or not cannot afford to take ANY QB and hope that he will develop in a year or 2. A solution for this team will come clear as we enter the Fa and draft period.

*better Marr ;D*

V4L
12-30-2007, 08:40 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:




I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?



Matt Shaub took a first rounder

And I don't think any of the FA's out there would really improve our team

And why can't you accept that Tarvaris is making strides? Maybe slower then you would like but he is a work in progress


So I ask again why is mediocre acceptable?

Honest questin? Do you really think the Vikings can afford to go through growing pains With T-Joke in the hope that he will one day, one season finally play at an good level?


There was alot of the same arguments made about Williamson going into this season. "Wr's need 3 good years to develop" Well Do you think at this point its going to happen?



It is at this point yes.. He is our best option bro.. Do you not get that? Are you that stuburn?

A rookie QB COULD help us.. But most likely they would go through the same growing pains and wouldn't help

A back up realeased to FA would also be very rookie like



So looking for something better is wrong? Isn't that why Marr started this thread in the first place. I get it. I don't think you do. I know we can do nothing about it now. So lets look at the future, and a possible solution. Is there something better? there has to be but who and what that is is way to early to tell. There will be a player or 2 that will be released that we have no idea that they will. And it is way to ealy to target anyone in the draft of FA. Do I have the answer No but I know enough that there is a better option out there, and that the Vikings Like it or not cannot afford to take ANY QB and hope that he will develop in a year or 2. A solution for this team will come clear as we enter the Fa and draft period.

*better Marr ;D*



I would never be apposed to bringin in competition and letting the best man win the job

I don't think there will be anything though..

But if there is a surprise release I would love to look into it

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 08:45 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:




I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?



Matt Shaub took a first rounder

And I don't think any of the FA's out there would really improve our team

And why can't you accept that Tarvaris is making strides? Maybe slower then you would like but he is a work in progress


So I ask again why is mediocre acceptable?

Honest questin? Do you really think the Vikings can afford to go through growing pains With T-Joke in the hope that he will one day, one season finally play at an good level?


There was alot of the same arguments made about Williamson going into this season. "Wr's need 3 good years to develop" Well Do you think at this point its going to happen?



It is at this point yes.. He is our best option bro.. Do you not get that? Are you that stuburn?

A rookie QB COULD help us.. But most likely they would go through the same growing pains and wouldn't help

A back up realeased to FA would also be very rookie like



So looking for something better is wrong? Isn't that why Marr started this thread in the first place. I get it. I don't think you do. I know we can do nothing about it now. So lets look at the future, and a possible solution. Is there something better? there has to be but who and what that is is way to early to tell. There will be a player or 2 that will be released that we have no idea that they will. And it is way to ealy to target anyone in the draft of FA. Do I have the answer No but I know enough that there is a better option out there, and that the Vikings Like it or not cannot afford to take ANY QB and hope that he will develop in a year or 2. A solution for this team will come clear as we enter the Fa and draft period.

*better Marr ;D*


But will we do anything about it? We could have went after Brees right when Childress was hired but showed no interest. Same with Schaub,Garcia twice,Anderson etc. We also drafted Thigpen and let him go.

If we have not gone after talent when it was there so far, It is hard to see us changing that now.

ultravikingfan
12-30-2007, 08:46 PM
Omar Jacobs?
I just threw-up in my mouth a little.

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 08:49 PM
Only Time will tell.


Heck Clevland could look at making a dea for aplayers ansd apick for Anderson(doubt it, but posible)
Mcnabb could get released and liek Garcia could be the best thing for him and he turns his career around.
Maybe Collins still has something left in the tank, not my first choice but still possibel
Lossman Not my choice but who knows.

If this post get buried I hope someone brings it up in about 4 months and asks the question again.

V4L
12-30-2007, 08:56 PM
I've watched about 5 browns games and I know Ultra will agree with me.. Anderson is overratedddddd!! Benifits wayyyy too much from solid upgraded line.. Awesome RB.. Stellar WR's and a stud TE

McNabb doesnt need to revive his career.. It's always been good.. If he goes anywhere it won't be from getting cut!! Wow.. They could get ATLEAST a 3rd round for him

Collins has played some crappy D's.. And I doubt would have enough in the tank to bring us along all season.. I doubt he is an upgrade anyway

And Losman.. HAHAHA

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
12-30-2007, 09:04 PM
I really do think this is the best Quarterback Draft class I've seen in so many years. Ive watched most all these guys and they look so much better then most classes I've seen. When you look at this draftclass we just have to get in on this.

You got:


Matt Ryan, Boston College (Look at any of my posts about him. Looks a lot like Brady. A amazing smart field general. Anticipates receivers getting open and puts up great numbers mediocre receivers.)



Brian Brohm, Louisiana



Andre Woodson, Kentucky



Colt Brennan, Hawaii




Joe Flacco, Delaware (Going to be
steal)

Even :
Chad Henne, Michigan (improved as the season went on. i do think he'll be an NFL quarterback)

We need to get in on that

ultravikingfan
12-30-2007, 09:06 PM
"V4L" wrote:


I've watched about 5 browns games and I know Ultra will agree with me.. Anderson is overratedddddd!! Benifits wayyyy too much from solid upgraded line.. Awesome RB.. Stellar WR's and a stud TE

McNabb doesnt need to revive his career.. It's always been good.. If he goes anywhere it won't be from getting cut!! Wow.. They could get ATLEAST a 3rd round for him

Collins has played some crappy D's.. And I doubt would have enough in the tank to bring us along all season.. I doubt he is an upgrade anyway

And Losman.. HAHAHA


True on DA.
He is way overrated and they are dying to see Quinn in there.
The Browns line is awesome now and they needed that.
I am not taking anything away from DA, did a helluva job.
But he did struggle at times with good Defenses.
Quinn will be the man next year.

Frostbite
12-30-2007, 09:07 PM
Todd Collins is an UFA and knows he's going back to number 2 at Washington. Why not go after him and let J.Jack and Collins fight it out for the starting job in TC next year? Keep Bollinger and cut K.Holcomb and forget about McNab.

Cheers!

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 09:15 PM
"V4L" wrote:


I've watched about 5 browns games and I know Ultra will agree with me.. Anderson is overratedddddd!! Benifits wayyyy too much from solid upgraded line.. Awesome RB.. Stellar WR's and a stud TE

I culd accept that out of any QB Thats not neccarrily a bad thing :)

V4L
12-30-2007, 09:16 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I've watched about 5 browns games and I know Ultra will agree with me.. Anderson is overratedddddd!! Benifits wayyyy too much from solid upgraded line.. Awesome RB.. Stellar WR's and a stud TE

I culd accept that out of any QB Thats not neccarrily a bad thing :)



And we don't have that here..

He would be an overpaid average player

Garland Greene
12-30-2007, 09:18 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I've watched about 5 browns games and I know Ultra will agree with me.. Anderson is overratedddddd!! Benifits wayyyy too much from solid upgraded line.. Awesome RB.. Stellar WR's and a stud TE

I culd accept that out of any QB Thats not neccarrily a bad thing :)



And we don't have that here..

He would be an overpaid average player


Thats why i could accept it :D

DaVizzles
12-30-2007, 09:19 PM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


I really do think this is the best Quarterback Draft class I've seen in so many years. Ive watched most all these guys and they look so much better then most classes I've seen. When you look at this draftclass we just have to get in on this.

You got:


Matt Ryan, Boston College (Look at any of my posts about him. Looks a lot like Brady. A amazing smart field general. Anticipates receivers getting open and puts up great numbers mediocre receivers.)



Brian Brohm, Louisiana



Andre Woodson, Kentucky



Colt Brennan, Hawaii




Joe Flacco, Delaware (Going to be
steal)

Even :
Chad Henne, Michigan (improved as the season went on. i do think he'll be an NFL quarterback)

We need to get in on that




Why do you want us to spend another high pick on a QB? All that will do is set our franchise back 4 more years waiting for him to mature. Some of you guys dont understand that it takes time....

I would be in favor of picking a QB late in the draft and maybe finding some gold but not within the top 4 rounds.

V4L
12-30-2007, 09:19 PM
"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Garland" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I've watched about 5 browns games and I know Ultra will agree with me.. Anderson is overratedddddd!! Benifits wayyyy too much from solid upgraded line.. Awesome RB.. Stellar WR's and a stud TE

I culd accept that out of any QB Thats not neccarrily a bad thing :)



And we don't have that here..

He would be an overpaid average player


Thats why i could accept it :D



Why overpay an average player?

He would not lead us to the ship

T-jack has just as good of a shot as DA would

Toro
12-30-2007, 09:22 PM
Frankly, I think TJ is going to be alright.
He needs some coaching on his mechanics, i.e. don't jump back and throw off your back foot, but he has shown a lot over the past six weeks.
He'll be a good NFL QB given the right coaching.

Purple Floyd
12-30-2007, 10:09 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:






I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your jiggly butt like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

I'm to mad over the game to be messed with like this.
(not talking about you Uffda)
;D


How about this scenario:

we get Todd Collins. He took 12 years to develop and is now looking real good. He has been healthy so injuries are not a question mark and he won't cost us high draft picks.

If he plays as long as the recently retired Vinnie Testaverde and Jackson takes as long to develop as Collins, we will be set at QB until 2029 ;D

You know you bring up a point I was actually thinking about as I watched him play tonight.

Not so much that I would want him but who is out there lurking that we don't know about anymore.
Some guy that can fit the system but hasn't been in one like ours.

Makes me want to start digging around a bit.



I have been watching Sorgi tonight. He has had a few good throws but also some bad ones and he looks undersized to me. I have officially crossed him off my list.

V4L
12-30-2007, 10:10 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:








I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your jiggly butt like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

I'm to mad over the game to be messed with like this.
(not talking about you Uffda)
;D


How about this scenario:

we get Todd Collins. He took 12 years to develop and is now looking real good. He has been healthy so injuries are not a question mark and he won't cost us high draft picks.

If he plays as long as the recently retired Vinnie Testaverde and Jackson takes as long to develop as Collins, we will be set at QB until 2029 ;D

You know you bring up a point I was actually thinking about as I watched him play tonight.

Not so much that I would want him but who is out there lurking that we don't know about anymore.
Some guy that can fit the system but hasn't been in one like ours.

Makes me want to start digging around a bit.



I have been watching Sorgi tonight. He has had a few good throws but also some bad ones and he looks undersized to me. I have officially crossed him off my list.



He signed an extension anyway

Everyone can

Marrdro
12-31-2007, 09:39 AM
I owe all of you a new list updated list.
Let me finish a few other "End of Year" house keeping things and I will work on it.

Sorgi is off the list IMHO.

Purple Floyd
12-31-2007, 09:55 AM
"V4L" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:










I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your jiggly butt like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

I'm to mad over the game to be messed with like this.
(not talking about you Uffda)
;D


How about this scenario:

we get Todd Collins. He took 12 years to develop and is now looking real good. He has been healthy so injuries are not a question mark and he won't cost us high draft picks.

If he plays as long as the recently retired Vinnie Testaverde and Jackson takes as long to develop as Collins, we will be set at QB until 2029 ;D

You know you bring up a point I was actually thinking about as I watched him play tonight.

Not so much that I would want him but who is out there lurking that we don't know about anymore.
Some guy that can fit the system but hasn't been in one like ours.

Makes me want to start digging around a bit.



I have been watching Sorgi tonight. He has had a few good throws but also some bad ones and he looks undersized to me. I have officially crossed him off my list.



He signed an extension anyway

Everyone can


Nope, he can still be traded. He signed an extension but was quoted as saying that he would ask for a trade if he was given a chance to compete for a starting job.

McNabb is under contract too ;)

V4L
12-31-2007, 12:26 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:












I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your jiggly butt like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

I'm to mad over the game to be messed with like this.
(not talking about you Uffda)
;D


How about this scenario:

we get Todd Collins. He took 12 years to develop and is now looking real good. He has been healthy so injuries are not a question mark and he won't cost us high draft picks.

If he plays as long as the recently retired Vinnie Testaverde and Jackson takes as long to develop as Collins, we will be set at QB until 2029 ;D

You know you bring up a point I was actually thinking about as I watched him play tonight.

Not so much that I would want him but who is out there lurking that we don't know about anymore.
Some guy that can fit the system but hasn't been in one like ours.

Makes me want to start digging around a bit.



I have been watching Sorgi tonight. He has had a few good throws but also some bad ones and he looks undersized to me. I have officially crossed him off my list.



He signed an extension anyway

Everyone can


Nope, he can still be traded. He signed an extension but was quoted as saying that he would ask for a trade if he was given a chance to compete for a starting job.

McNabb is under contract too ;)



But do you honestly think we will try to trade for Sorgi?

::)

Frostbite
12-31-2007, 12:30 PM
Well....I would rather trade for Todd Collins than Sorgi anyday.

Who knows what's going to happen in 08?? My crystal ball broke years ago.


Cheers!

Mikecarter81
12-31-2007, 12:32 PM
We don't want Sorgi.
No offense to his Badger roots, but
I've seen him play extensively.
He is no step up from Bollinger and is in a lot of ways a step down.

Mike

olson_10
12-31-2007, 12:55 PM
you always want your team to make the playoffs..its as simple as that..but there is one good thing in us not making it this season, and that is that this team would be retarded to not know by now that jackson is a dud, and its not going to work with him as a starter..keep him around as a career backup, but hes just not going to get it done as a starter in this league, plain and simple

also, go get some frickin receivers, and a pass rusher..im just afraid that if this team did make the playoffs, they wouldve been spanked in the first round, then childress and everybody wouldve been happy to go into the next season with the same group of players, and would make little no name signings here and there as opposed to getting guys that could make an impact that are certainly available this offseason

Marrdro
12-31-2007, 01:00 PM
"olson_10" wrote:


you always want your team to make the playoffs..its as simple as that..but there is one good thing in us not making it this season, and that is that this team would be Challenged Hillbilly Lover'd to not know by now that jackson is a dud, and its not going to work with him as a starter..keep him around as a career backup, but hes just not going to get it done as a starter in this league, plain and simple

also, go get some frickin receivers, and a pass rusher..im just afraid that if this team did make the playoffs, they wouldve been spanked in the first round, then childress and everybody wouldve been happy to go into the next season with the same group of players, and would make little no name signings here and there as opposed to getting guys that could make an impact that are certainly available this offseason

I hear ya my friend but two things.
This is a QB discussion thread.
No need to bring in the WR's issues.
I have a thread about them out there as well.

As for the QB point.
Your point is acknowledged but we are looking for solutions.
Do you have one or are you just here to regurge that we have a problem?

ejmat
12-31-2007, 01:17 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"olson_10" wrote:


you always want your team to make the playoffs..its as simple as that..but there is one good thing in us not making it this season, and that is that this team would be Challenged Hillbilly Lover'd to not know by now that jackson is a dud, and its not going to work with him as a starter..keep him around as a career backup, but hes just not going to get it done as a starter in this league, plain and simple

also, go get some frickin receivers, and a pass rusher..im just afraid that if this team did make the playoffs, they wouldve been spanked in the first round, then childress and everybody wouldve been happy to go into the next season with the same group of players, and would make little no name signings here and there as opposed to getting guys that could make an impact that are certainly available this offseason

I hear ya my friend but two things.
This is a QB discussion thread.
No need to bring in the WR's issues.
I have a thread about them out there as well.

As for the QB point.
Your point is acknowledged but we are looking for solutions.
Do you have one or are you just here to regurge that we have a problem?


None of us know what TJ will bring to the table yet.
He may or not be the QB of the future (or as Marrdro puts it "futureboy").
However, I really like how he has played in the 4th quarters of the last 2 games.
He has made some very good throws and has taken over the football game.
I was one of the people that doubted him after the Dallas game but he's improved somewhat in my eyes.
I think he has the tools to be a good QB in the NFL.
That being said, I wouldn't be at all sad if we went out and got a veteran QB such as McNabb or even a Todd Collins.
That guy does not make mistakes and he's consistent.
He may not be a future QB becasue of his age but with the team they have now he could fit in pretty well and push TJ ofr that starting position.

Purple Floyd
12-31-2007, 01:37 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:














I doubt there will be a real upgrade over Tarvaris

Backups will be released

And u would like to start another rookie at QB next season then?


Cleo lemon ststistcally has outplayed T-Joke so I am pretty sure there will be. Rookie ? maybe depending upon who it is. But there are alot of back-ups in the league that are just waiting for a chance to start somewhere. I seem to remeber alot of people going crazy over the fact that we could of gotten Matt Schaub.

Honest question why is mediocre at best qb, acceptable for everyone?

GG honestly, please take your crap to another thread or I will be on your jiggly butt like white on rice in everyone of your posts.

Seriously.
Put that crap in anothe rthread.
I will delete this thread before I let you turn it into a hate thread.



Now that is laying the smack down. ;D

Can I start on you about Childress right now or will you open a can of whoopass on me? ;D

I'm to mad over the game to be messed with like this.
(not talking about you Uffda)
;D


How about this scenario:

we get Todd Collins. He took 12 years to develop and is now looking real good. He has been healthy so injuries are not a question mark and he won't cost us high draft picks.

If he plays as long as the recently retired Vinnie Testaverde and Jackson takes as long to develop as Collins, we will be set at QB until 2029 ;D

You know you bring up a point I was actually thinking about as I watched him play tonight.

Not so much that I would want him but who is out there lurking that we don't know about anymore.
Some guy that can fit the system but hasn't been in one like ours.

Makes me want to start digging around a bit.



I have been watching Sorgi tonight. He has had a few good throws but also some bad ones and he looks undersized to me. I have officially crossed him off my list.



He signed an extension anyway

Everyone can


Nope, he can still be traded. He signed an extension but was quoted as saying that he would ask for a trade if he was given a chance to compete for a starting job.

McNabb is under contract too ;)



But do you honestly think we will try to trade for Sorgi?

::)


After watching him- No.
Before seeing him play, if he had the talent to start, possibly.

petersenkyle1167
12-31-2007, 03:50 PM
i have a really good idea what we should do at the QB position...lets get that one guy to play from some college in alabama...whats his name...oh yeah...TARVARIS JACKSON!!...dont dump on the kid yet...hes our QB...and has shown signs that he can be

Webby
12-31-2007, 03:55 PM
"petersenkyle1167" wrote:


i have a really good idea what we should do at the QB position...lets get that one guy to play from some college in alabama...whats his name...oh yeah...TARVARIS JACKSON!!...dont dump on the kid yet...hes our QB...and has shown signs that he can be


I am coming around to TJack might do well....he progresses much further than this year than I would have thought.
He made rookie mistakes, but duh.
Give him a few less butterfingers at WR and see what happens, and maybe a OC worth his salt.

Marrdro
12-31-2007, 03:56 PM
"petersenkyle1167" wrote:


i have a really good idea what we should do at the QB position...lets get that one guy to play from some college in alabama...whats his name...oh yeah...TARVARIS JACKSON!!...dont dump on the kid yet...hes our QB...and has shown signs that he can be

Thanks for the input my friend and I couldn't agree more, however, as I stated to other posters this thread is designed to actually talk about solutions to our problem.

Most will agree that TJ has been throw to the wolves way to early. Those very same people are split on how they feel with respect to next year and if he will be ready.

Again, this thread is designed to discuss that issue and who should/could be the solution.

Mikecarter81
12-31-2007, 04:19 PM
Here is another idea
What about helping T jack by going out and hiring a QB guru like Jim Tessel, Marc Testman, or Steve Mariucci.
A guy who can work more specifically with him.


Mike

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
12-31-2007, 04:58 PM
"DaVizzles" wrote:


"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


I really do think this is the best Quarterback Draft class I've seen in so many years. Ive watched most all these guys and they look so much better then most classes I've seen. When you look at this draftclass we just have to get in on this.

You got:


Matt Ryan, Boston College (Look at any of my posts about him. Looks a lot like Brady. A amazing smart field general. Anticipates receivers getting open and puts up great numbers mediocre receivers.)



Brian Brohm, Louisiana



Andre Woodson, Kentucky



Colt Brennan, Hawaii




Joe Flacco, Delaware (Going to be
steal)

Even :
Chad Henne, Michigan (improved as the season went on. i do think he'll be an NFL quarterback)

We need to get in on that




Why do you want us to spend another high pick on a QB? All that will do is set our franchise back 4 more years waiting for him to mature. Some of you guys dont understand that it takes time....

I would be in favor of picking a QB late in the draft and maybe finding some gold but not within the top 4 rounds.

Some of you guys dont understand that not all quarterbacks take 4 years to get good. Just crap player that were average against crappy competition like Jackson. Those are the only guys that might be good after 4 years. Get a guy whos dominant against I-A and it doesn't set you back more then a year. No years if you bring in a vet for him to develop behind. Look at Marino, Manning, Young, Jay Cutler, Trent Edwards, Leinart. Those guys did exceptionally well their rookie season. I could name 50 that did good there second season like Kurt Warner, MVP his first year starting in his second year. Guys dont take 4 years, they just dont. Very few do. Maybe Jackson because he's absolute crap but normally if you get a guy who was dominant at there level. See Guys like Ryan and Brohm are dominant at the D-I-A while Jackson was average at the D-I-AA. What does that say. The only guys that come out of D-I-AA and succeed are guys who broke record at the AA level and were dominant but Jackson was average.
It doesn't set this franchise back 4 years. Especially if we get a vet to come in while he develops on the bench.
Then he needs only develop a year give or take a few games. If you found a Cutler, Leinart or Young then less. Your just tricked by Childress who says it will take 4 years to develop this quarterback but this quarterback is Jackson.

tb04512
12-31-2007, 05:07 PM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


I really do think this is the best Quarterback Draft class I've seen in so many years. Ive watched most all these guys and they look so much better then most classes I've seen. When you look at this draftclass we just have to get in on this.

You got:


Matt Ryan, Boston College (Look at any of my posts about him. Looks a lot like Brady. A amazing smart field general. Anticipates receivers getting open and puts up great numbers mediocre receivers.)



Brian Brohm, Louisiana



Andre Woodson, Kentucky



Colt Brennan, Hawaii




Joe Flacco, Delaware (Going to be
steal)

Even :
Chad Henne, Michigan (improved as the season went on. i do think he'll be an NFL quarterback)

We need to get in on that




Why do you want us to spend another high pick on a QB? All that will do is set our franchise back 4 more years waiting for him to mature. Some of you guys dont understand that it takes time....

I would be in favor of picking a QB late in the draft and maybe finding some gold but not within the top 4 rounds.

Some of you guys dont understand that not all quarterbacks take 4 years to get good. Just crap player that were average against crappy competition like Jackson. Those are the only guys that might be good after 4 years. Get a guy whos dominant against I-A and it doesn't set you back more then a year. No years if you bring in a vet for him to develop behind. Look at Marino, Manning, Young, Jay Cutler, Trent Edwards, Leinart. Those guys did exceptionally well their rookie season. I could name 50 that did good there second season like Kurt Warner, MVP his first year starting in his second year. Guys dont take 4 years, they just dont. Very few do. Maybe Jackson because he's absolute crap but normally if you get a guy who was dominant at there level. See Guys like Ryan and Brohm are dominant at the D-I-A while Jackson was average at the D-I-AA. What does that say. The only guys that come out of D-I-AA and succeed are guys who broke record at the AA level and were dominant but Jackson was average.
It doesn't set this franchise back 4 years. Especially if we get a vet to come in while he develops on the bench.
Then he needs only develop a year give or take a few games. If you found a Cutler, Leinart or Young then less. Your just tricked by Childress who says it will take 4 years to develop this quarterback but this quarterback is Jackson.


leinart has done nothing, thats why this year they has to use 2 qbs in a game

Young, still not a good passing QB

Trent Edwards has done nothing.

Go ahead and grab the amazing people in college because that means they WILL be great in the nfl
::) ::)

Ryan Leaf anyone? how bout some ELI? Harrington? Akili Smith? Cade Mcnown? the list goes on and on

and learning for 4 years, since you pulled the number 4, how about Romo? Gerrard? Quinn grey looked pretty good.
took Brees a few years to figure his shit out

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
12-31-2007, 05:37 PM
"tb04512" wrote:


"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


I really do think this is the best Quarterback Draft class I've seen in so many years. Ive watched most all these guys and they look so much better then most classes I've seen. When you look at this draftclass we just have to get in on this.

You got:


Matt Ryan, Boston College (Look at any of my posts about him. Looks a lot like Brady. A amazing smart field general. Anticipates receivers getting open and puts up great numbers mediocre receivers.)



Brian Brohm, Louisiana



Andre Woodson, Kentucky



Colt Brennan, Hawaii




Joe Flacco, Delaware (Going to be
steal)

Even :
Chad Henne, Michigan (improved as the season went on. i do think he'll be an NFL quarterback)

We need to get in on that




Why do you want us to spend another high pick on a QB? All that will do is set our franchise back 4 more years waiting for him to mature. Some of you guys dont understand that it takes time....

I would be in favor of picking a QB late in the draft and maybe finding some gold but not within the top 4 rounds.

Some of you guys dont understand that not all quarterbacks take 4 years to get good. Just crap player that were average against crappy competition like Jackson. Those are the only guys that might be good after 4 years. Get a guy whos dominant against I-A and it doesn't set you back more then a year. No years if you bring in a vet for him to develop behind. Look at Marino, Manning, Young, Jay Cutler, Trent Edwards, Leinart. Those guys did exceptionally well their rookie season. I could name 50 that did good there second season like Kurt Warner, MVP his first year starting in his second year. Guys dont take 4 years, they just dont. Very few do. Maybe Jackson because he's absolute crap but normally if you get a guy who was dominant at there level. See Guys like Ryan and Brohm are dominant at the D-I-A while Jackson was average at the D-I-AA. What does that say. The only guys that come out of D-I-AA and succeed are guys who broke record at the AA level and were dominant but Jackson was average.
It doesn't set this franchise back 4 years. Especially if we get a vet to come in while he develops on the bench.
Then he needs only develop a year give or take a few games. If you found a Cutler, Leinart or Young then less. Your just tricked by Childress who says it will take 4 years to develop this quarterback but this quarterback is Jackson.


leinart has done nothing, thats why this year they has to use 2 qbs in a game

Young, still not a good passing QB

Trent Edwards has done nothing.

Go ahead and grab the amazing people in college because that means they WILL be great in the nfl
::) ::)

Ryan Leaf anyone? how bout some ELI? Harrington? Akili Smith? Cade Mcnown? the list goes on and on

and learning for 4 years, since you pulled the number 4, how about Romo? Gerrard? Quinn grey looked pretty good.
took Brees a few years to figure his pooh out


Im just saying it doesn't take 4 years to be a legiminate NFL starter and Cutler, Leinart, Young (though I agree with you is still a NFL starter worthy), and Edward are all legitamate NFL Starters. IT was DaVizzle who pulled out 4. Quinn Greys looked worst then Leinart or Edwards. Eli's not a bust and to say because they did dominant against good competition makes them a bust,
??? That is just ignorant.

What Im saying is TJ was average out of a D-I-AA school. That why he'll take 4 years to might be exceptional. All I meant was that it does not take 4 years for everybody. Only crap like Jackson. A elite passer at the I-A level will more likely then not become a legitamate starter in there second year. I never said do something great there second year. You took me wrong on that. Just that they would be a legiamate starter.

Ryan and Brohm. They will not take 4 years, DaVizzle. Two maybe and it won't set us back because we'd have a vet while they sit on the bench

Purple Floyd
12-31-2007, 05:39 PM
Colt Brennan

Anyone named after a pistol or a bottle of beer has to be good. ;D

tb04512
12-31-2007, 05:44 PM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


"tb04512" wrote:


"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


"DaVizzles" wrote:


"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


I really do think this is the best Quarterback Draft class I've seen in so many years. Ive watched most all these guys and they look so much better then most classes I've seen. When you look at this draftclass we just have to get in on this.

You got:


Matt Ryan, Boston College (Look at any of my posts about him. Looks a lot like Brady. A amazing smart field general. Anticipates receivers getting open and puts up great numbers mediocre receivers.)



Brian Brohm, Louisiana



Andre Woodson, Kentucky



Colt Brennan, Hawaii




Joe Flacco, Delaware (Going to be
steal)

Even :
Chad Henne, Michigan (improved as the season went on. i do think he'll be an NFL quarterback)

We need to get in on that




Why do you want us to spend another high pick on a QB? All that will do is set our franchise back 4 more years waiting for him to mature. Some of you guys dont understand that it takes time....

I would be in favor of picking a QB late in the draft and maybe finding some gold but not within the top 4 rounds.

Some of you guys dont understand that not all quarterbacks take 4 years to get good. Just crap player that were average against crappy competition like Jackson. Those are the only guys that might be good after 4 years. Get a guy whos dominant against I-A and it doesn't set you back more then a year. No years if you bring in a vet for him to develop behind. Look at Marino, Manning, Young, Jay Cutler, Trent Edwards, Leinart. Those guys did exceptionally well their rookie season. I could name 50 that did good there second season like Kurt Warner, MVP his first year starting in his second year. Guys dont take 4 years, they just dont. Very few do. Maybe Jackson because he's absolute crap but normally if you get a guy who was dominant at there level. See Guys like Ryan and Brohm are dominant at the D-I-A while Jackson was average at the D-I-AA. What does that say. The only guys that come out of D-I-AA and succeed are guys who broke record at the AA level and were dominant but Jackson was average.
It doesn't set this franchise back 4 years. Especially if we get a vet to come in while he develops on the bench.
Then he needs only develop a year give or take a few games. If you found a Cutler, Leinart or Young then less. Your just tricked by Childress who says it will take 4 years to develop this quarterback but this quarterback is Jackson.


leinart has done nothing, thats why this year they has to use 2 qbs in a game

Young, still not a good passing QB

Trent Edwards has done nothing.

Go ahead and grab the amazing people in college because that means they WILL be great in the nfl
::) ::)

Ryan Leaf anyone? how bout some ELI? Harrington? Akili Smith? Cade Mcnown? the list goes on and on

and learning for 4 years, since you pulled the number 4, how about Romo? Gerrard? Quinn grey looked pretty good.
took Brees a few years to figure his pooh out


Im just saying it doesn't take 4 years to be a legiminate NFL starter and Cutler, Leinart, Young (though I agree with you is still a NFL starter worthy), and Edward are all legitamate NFL Starters. IT was DaVizzle who pulled out 4. Quinn Greys looked worst then Leinart or Edwards. Eli's not a bust and to say because they did dominant against good competition makes them a bust,
??? That is just ignorant.

What Im saying is TJ was average out of a D-I-AA school. That why he'll take 4 years to might be exceptional. All I meant was that it does not take 4 years for everybody. Only crap like Jackson. A elite passer at the I-A level will more likely then not become a legitamate starter in there second year. I never said do something great there second year. You took me wrong on that. Just that they would be a legiamate starter.

Ryan and Brohm. They will not take 4 years, DaVizzle. Two maybe and it won't set us back because we'd have a vet while they sit on the bench


im saying Edwards and Leinart are not LEGIT starters... Eli isnt that great of a QB, he is shaky and unpredictable in his 4th(i think 4th) year.
Jackson isn't crap, he has vastly improved since last year, it will not take 4 years.
And have you noticed out of the QB's you have stated they all came in with at least 1 good WR, with the exception of young who we both dont think is a good passing qb

Leinart- Boldin and Fitz
Cutler-Javon Walker
Edwards-Lee Evans


Tarvaris Jackson-Bobby wade