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singersp
11-01-2007, 06:29 AM
Sid Hartman: Some Vikings critics barely know team (http://www.startribune.com/507/story/1521336.html)

One author thinks hiring Brad Childress was a mistake, but team morale is good and they are just a few plays away from being 5-2 instead of 2-5.

By Sid Hartman, Star Tribune

Last update: October 31, 2007 – 10:45 PM


The Vikings are on the bottom of the NFC North, and the chances of them making the playoffs are almost zero.........

baumy300
11-01-2007, 06:40 AM
If if if... Fact of the matter is we are NOT 5-2, but 2-5.

He is right though. Some different plays, and a little bit better execution and we are 5-2. However, we have no one intelligent enough to run an offense (coach wise), nor do we have enough skill at QB and WR to execute it. Even on the o-line we struggle. Why? Because of the guys Chilly brought in. You can't make stallions out of jackasses, and it's not the players fault they're out there and expected to play like true starters when most of them are career reserves.

PurplePackerEater
11-01-2007, 06:52 AM
Here we go again with the "ifs" "ands", and "buts"...

singersp
11-01-2007, 07:06 AM
"baumy300" wrote:



If if if... Fact of the matter is we are NOT 5-2, but 2-5.



And our offense looks & plays like a 2-5 team as a whole, not a 5-2.

PurpleTide
11-01-2007, 07:07 AM
We all hang our hats on the fact that we were close in all the games and should have won a couple more.

Right now all I want to see is us start to execute better and put a couple wins together to build on for next season. I want effort all game, not just the first series. It's time for some things to bounce our way, and some young guys on this team to step up. As far as some writers printing garbage..... well all they do is look at the stats, and regurgatate the same crap over and over.

Prophet
11-01-2007, 09:51 AM
Sid makes a few salient points that are obvious.
I hope it's true that the vets and the team morale is still good.
If that is true anything is possible.

Marrdro
11-01-2007, 10:00 AM
Perception is reality in most instances, much more than reality is.

Wins and Losses aside, I still have a beef with the PR department within this staff.

Names, to faces, Vision, Goals, Focus, should all be stuff they are promoting.
Of course I don't live up there, however, I see very little effort to combat the negative aspects of a team that isn't going to win many games this year.
::)

renovikesfan
11-01-2007, 10:08 AM
All he's saying (along with the rest of us who haven't given up hope yet) with the "if's, and's, and but's", is that the team has POTENTIAL to start winning games rather than losing them.
If the Vikes were losing games by margins of 17 or more, then it would seem alot more acceptable to throw our collective hands up and write the season off as a loss before we've even reached the halfway mark.

marstc09
11-01-2007, 10:21 AM
These what ifs really get me pissed. The fact is we are not 5-2. We have lack of execution on both sides of the ball and I shaky QB. He needs to stay healthy so we can see if he is the answer. This season is frustrating not because we are 2-5 but because there is no progress. I am happy we are close in games and we have some good talent. I am not happy that we are halfway through the season and I have not seen anything to tell me that Childress is making us a better team.

snowinapril
11-01-2007, 10:40 AM
The writer isn't saying we deserve to be 5-2.
He was just using that as a basis for why the team hasn't given up yet.

It may be a salient point but it isn't that obvious of a line or we wouldn't have members pulling the "if card" out.

IMHO, the fact that we left a few plays on the field could have been very detrimental.
Most of the plays that were left on the field were made by BB and KH.
Because they were made by KH and BB, the team still has hope in their pocket, which is a healthy TJ.
It also helps that AD is a spark of hope too.
Because he can take it the distance like he has, losing be an average of 6 points per game is only one play from being a win.

Our biggest problem the last 2.5 seasons has been consistency and the lack there of at the most important position on the field!

We had six games (2005) of QB consistency where the offense didn't win the games, the Defense won those games.

Marrdro
11-01-2007, 10:43 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


These what ifs really get me pissed. The fact is we are not 5-2. We have lack of execution on both sides of the ball and I shaky QB. He needs to stay healthy so we can see if he is the answer. This season is frustrating not because we are 2-5 but because there is no progress. I am happy we are close in games and we have some good talent. I am not happy that we are halfway through the season and I have not seen anything to tell me that Childress is making us a better team.

Some extra wins would be nice as a true indicator that we are getting better, however, I do see improvement.

We haven't been blown out yet and have been pretty competitive against some pretty decent teams.
Zone Blocking Scheme seems to be working better (See next improvement).
We lead the league in rushing.
We have more def INT's than our opponents so far.
We are 20th in the leage with Pts.
The Defense hasn't gotten any worse against the run after the new D-coord game in.
ST is a strenght and not a weakness.
We alread have 9 D TD's, last year we only had 3.

If ya really really really really really dig, you can find some sunshine my friend in every storm.

;D

marstc09
11-01-2007, 11:05 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


These what ifs really get me pissed. The fact is we are not 5-2. We have lack of execution on both sides of the ball and I shaky QB. He needs to stay healthy so we can see if he is the answer. This season is frustrating not because we are 2-5 but because there is no progress. I am happy we are close in games and we have some good talent. I am not happy that we are halfway through the season and I have not seen anything to tell me that Childress is making us a better team.

Some extra wins would be nice as a true indicator that we are getting better, however, I do see improvement.

We haven't been blown out yet and have been pretty competitive against some pretty decent teams.
Zone Blocking Scheme seems to be working better (See next improvement).
We lead the league in rushing.
We have more def INT's than our opponents so far.
We are 20th in the leage with Pts.
The Defense hasn't gotten any worse against the run after the new D-coord game in.
ST is a strenght and not a weakness.
We alread have 9 D TD's, last year we only had 3.

If ya really really really really really dig, you can find some sunshine my friend in every storm.

;D


Some good points. So why the hell do we keep losing games? QB. I really hope TJ can develop or we need to get a vet in here that can get us over these close games.

Zeus
11-01-2007, 11:10 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


Sid makes a few salient points that are obvious.
I hope it's true that the vets and the team morale is still good.
If that is true anything is possible.


Sid needs to talk to his own sports reporters, as well.
The next time one of them talks about the "Vikings 30th-ranked pass defense" w/out bringing up the SCORING DEFENSE rank, I'm gonna scream.

=Z=

NodakPaul
11-01-2007, 11:14 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


Sid makes a few salient points that are obvious.
I hope it's true that the vets and the team morale is still good.
If that is true anything is possible.


Sid needs to talk to his own sports reporters, as well.
The next time one of them talks about the "Vikings 30th-ranked pass defense" w/out bringing up the SCORING DEFENSE rank, I'm gonna scream.

=Z=


...waiting for the required "local media hacks" comment from Marrdro... ;D

Marrdro
11-01-2007, 11:18 AM
"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


These what ifs really get me pissed. The fact is we are not 5-2. We have lack of execution on both sides of the ball and I shaky QB. He needs to stay healthy so we can see if he is the answer. This season is frustrating not because we are 2-5 but because there is no progress. I am happy we are close in games and we have some good talent. I am not happy that we are halfway through the season and I have not seen anything to tell me that Childress is making us a better team.

Some extra wins would be nice as a true indicator that we are getting better, however, I do see improvement.

We haven't been blown out yet and have been pretty competitive against some pretty decent teams.
Zone Blocking Scheme seems to be working better (See next improvement).
We lead the league in rushing.
We have more def INT's than our opponents so far.
We are 20th in the leage with Pts.
The Defense hasn't gotten any worse against the run after the new D-coord game in.
ST is a strenght and not a weakness.
We alread have 9 D TD's, last year we only had 3.

If ya really really really really really dig, you can find some sunshine my friend in every storm.

;D


Some good points. So why the hell do we keep losing games? QB. I really hope TJ can develop or we need to get a vet in here that can get us over these close games.

QB is a big contributor but really it is a bigger issue along that lines.

We did not draft well over the past few years and we really sucked at plugging wholes with Quality FAs as well.

Like it or not, the last staff left us pretty devoid of any future.
As a result of that we are relying on roughly 10-13 1rst and second year players to either start or act as relief/backup at alot of key positions.

I for one will not hang them out to dry for inexperience.
I will also not blame the coaches for doing everything in thier power to get them as game ready as they can.

Face it, (gonna ping on this for a bit more this week) we are relying on those kids to play in spots that should normally be filled/held down by a guy that has had 3-5 years experience in that spot, then throw in the fact that those Vets aren't there passing along the much needed Vet leadership you all say we need.

Let me rephrase your question for you.......
Why the hell do we keep loosing CLOSE games........ with the emphasis on close.

We are only in these games cause of 2 things.
1).
The Coaches are doing a damn good job with the talent on hand.
2).
The youngsters in most cases are playing at or above a Vet level now.

As they keep on playing some of those Rook mistakes will start to diminish and we will not only start winning close games, but we will be ahead at half (as we saw with Dallas) against better teams than us.

End result.
Wins more than losses.
;D

snowinapril
11-01-2007, 11:21 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


The writer isn't saying we deserve to be 5-2.
He was just using that as a basis for why the team hasn't given up yet.

It may be a salient point but it isn't that obvious of a line or we wouldn't have members pulling the "if card" out.

IMHO, the fact that we left a few plays on the field could have been very detrimental.
Most of the plays that were left on the field were made by BB and KH.
Because they were made by KH and BB, the team still has hope in their pocket, which is a healthy TJ.
It also helps that AD is a spark of hope too.
Because he can take it the distance like he has, losing be an average of 6 points per game is only one play from being a win.

Our biggest problem the last 2.5 seasons has been consistency and the lack there of at the most important position on the field!

We had six games (2005) of QB consistency where the offense didn't win the games, the Defense won those games.


Actually, I have to say that our two wins were because of AD's big plays and big games.
We need the QB to be able to contribute as well.
The QB tried in KC with Fergy and the GB game with Rice (the game he was wide open and we missed him).
TJ also gets a half of ADs credit for the Chi game, that pass to TW was nice for a 60 yd TD.

Zeus
11-01-2007, 11:24 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


The writer isn't saying we deserve to be 5-2.
He was just using that as a basis for why the team hasn't given up yet.

It may be a salient point but it isn't that obvious of a line or we wouldn't have members pulling the "if card" out.

IMHO, the fact that we left a few plays on the field could have been very detrimental.
Most of the plays that were left on the field were made by BB and KH.
Because they were made by KH and BB, the team still has hope in their pocket, which is a healthy TJ.
It also helps that AD is a spark of hope too.
Because he can take it the distance like he has, losing be an average of 6 points per game is only one play from being a win.

Our biggest problem the last 2.5 seasons has been consistency and the lack there of at the most important position on the field!

We had six games (2005) of QB consistency where the offense didn't win the games, the Defense won those games.


Actually, I have to say that our two wins were because of AD's big plays and big games.
We need the QB to be able to contribute as well.
The QB tried in KC with Fergy and the GB game with Rice (the game he was wide open and we missed him).
TJ also gets a half of ADs credit for the Chi game, that pass to TW was nice for a 60 yd TD.


Quoting and following-up your own post?

What a whore!

=Z=

snowinapril
11-01-2007, 11:29 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


The writer isn't saying we deserve to be 5-2.
He was just using that as a basis for why the team hasn't given up yet.

It may be a salient point but it isn't that obvious of a line or we wouldn't have members pulling the "if card" out.

IMHO, the fact that we left a few plays on the field could have been very detrimental.
Most of the plays that were left on the field were made by BB and KH.
Because they were made by KH and BB, the team still has hope in their pocket, which is a healthy TJ.
It also helps that AD is a spark of hope too.
Because he can take it the distance like he has, losing be an average of 6 points per game is only one play from being a win.

Our biggest problem the last 2.5 seasons has been consistency and the lack there of at the most important position on the field!

We had six games (2005) of QB consistency where the offense didn't win the games, the Defense won those games.


Actually, I have to say that our two wins were because of AD's big plays and big games.
We need the QB to be able to contribute as well.
The QB tried in KC with Fergy and the GB game with Rice (the game he was wide open and we missed him).
TJ also gets a half of ADs credit for the Chi game, that pass to TW was nice for a 60 yd TD.


Quoting and following-up your own post?

What a whore!

=Z=


Whores have more fun!

LOL, takes one to know one and I know you!
:o


Zeus: And will soon be top 8, once I pass SIA - need him to go on vacation again

I am taking 3 weeks off in Dec.
Wishes do come true.

Marrdro
11-01-2007, 11:33 AM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


Sid makes a few salient points that are obvious.
I hope it's true that the vets and the team morale is still good.
If that is true anything is possible.


Sid needs to talk to his own sports reporters, as well.
The next time one of them talks about the "Vikings 30th-ranked pass defense" w/out bringing up the SCORING DEFENSE rank, I'm gonna scream.

=Z=


...waiting for the required "local media hacks" comment from Marrdro... ;D

Not necessary.
His post was enough.

He is to big of an ally in other areas to pour salt into a wound like that.
;D

MNgriff
11-01-2007, 11:34 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


Sid makes a few salient points that are obvious.
I hope it's true that the vets and the team morale is still good.
If that is true anything is possible.


Sid needs to talk to his own sports reporters, as well.
The next time one of them talks about the "Vikings 30th-ranked pass defense" w/out bringing up the SCORING DEFENSE rank, I'm gonna scream.

=Z=


I also hope sid is right about the level of confidence still being uncharacteristically high considering our record. Then again how can you take anything from sid without a grain of salt? If there was an award for homer of the year, sid would have won it about 20 years running. This is the same guy that said at about the all-star break that the "twins would without a doubt find a way to keep hunter, just look at puck," he said. I think we all see how that's working out. I want to believe sid but it's not easy
;)

digital420
11-01-2007, 11:46 AM
if we still have a + attitude in the locker room.. and start with 1 win.. we might see a resurgence in the playmakers, and watch as people step up their game..

then when we finish on the + side of .500
how many bchilly haters will switch to the purple side?
there is to much to work on i think for them to make a 9-7 run.. but. i see improvement. it's coming.. that light at the end of the tunnel is the playoff.. not the train!!


DiGiTaL

MNgriff
11-01-2007, 11:53 AM
"digital420" wrote:


if we still have a + attitude in the locker room.. and start with 1 win.. we might see a resurgence in the playmakers, and watch as people step up their game..

then when we finish on the + side of .500
how many bchilly haters will switch to the purple side?
there is to much to work on i think for them to make a 9-7 run.. but. i see improvement. it's coming.. that light at the end of the tunnel is the playoff.. not the train!!


DiGiTaL



If that happens I will be the first to put down the bong and praise his name up and down every board I post on, but I think that's asking waaay too much from this team. A few big plays maybe seing sidney emerge a bit more and peterson making rookie of the year will be enough for me to be hopeful.

vikingivan
11-01-2007, 12:05 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


These what ifs really get me pissed. The fact is we are not 5-2. We have lack of execution on both sides of the ball and I shaky QB. He needs to stay healthy so we can see if he is the answer. This season is frustrating not because we are 2-5 but because there is no progress. I am happy we are close in games and we have some good talent. I am not happy that we are halfway through the season and I have not seen anything to tell me that Childress is making us a better team.

Some extra wins would be nice as a true indicator that we are getting better, however, I do see improvement.

We haven't been blown out yet and have been pretty competitive against some pretty decent teams.
Zone Blocking Scheme seems to be working better (See next improvement).
We lead the league in rushing.
We have more def INT's than our opponents so far.
We are 20th in the leage with Pts.
The Defense hasn't gotten any worse against the run after the new D-coord game in.
ST is a strenght and not a weakness.
We alread have 9 D TD's, last year we only had 3.

If ya really really really really really dig, you can find some sunshine my friend in every storm.

;D


Some good points. So why the hell do we keep losing games? QB. I really hope TJ can develop or we need to get a vet in here that can get us over these close games.


We are only in these games cause of 2 things.
1).
The Coaches are doing a gol 'darnit good job with the talent on hand.
2).
The youngsters in most cases are playing at or above a Vet level now.



That is funny Marrdro.
Coaches doing a good job.
I guess that was sarcasm.
Actually, we are 2-5 because of poor coaching.
Les Steckel would have had this team 3-4 at the worst.

snowinapril
11-01-2007, 12:06 PM
How is it not fricken obvious that we have a consistency problem?

TJ (W)
TJ, oops out goes TJ in OT and in comes BB (L - in OT on a fumble by BB)
no TJ enter BB (L - BB over throws Fergy for the TD that would have been enough for a win)
no TJ enter KH (L - KH first game as a vike and he held his own against GB)
TJ (W)
TJ (L)
no TJ enter KH, nope enter BB (L)
TJ, BB, no KH, oh, let's get J.George
(?)

I know patience isn't a virtue around here, but there hasn't be anything consistant to messure where the blame needs to be put.

The fact that the team hasn't lost confidence in the locker room says a lot.

Zeus
11-01-2007, 12:11 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


I know patience isn't a virtue around here, but there hasn't be anything consistant to messure where the blame needs to be put.

The fact that the team hasn't lost confidence in the locker room says a lot.


I heard Ben Leber on KFAN yesterday (Chad Hartman show) and he was talking just like that - about how the team knows they are close, how they are in every game with a chance to win, etc.
He sounded like he was still really positive, but realistic.

=Z=

skum
11-01-2007, 12:17 PM
We lost to what appers to be the number 1 and 2 teams in the NFC, the Eagles and the winning and AFC West #1 Chiefs, plus the 5-2 Detriot Lions.

We have two games with 6 pts and 2 games with 3 pts and one with 10.

Our schedule has apparently been pretty sick.

Lets just go out and beat the Chargers, Raiders, SF, Chicago, Washington and Denver in the last game - 8-8 gets us in the playoff picture. GO VIKINNNNNNNGS!!!!

jargomcfargo
11-01-2007, 12:17 PM
"MNgriff" wrote:


"digital420" wrote:


if we still have a + attitude in the locker room.. and start with 1 win.. we might see a resurgence in the playmakers, and watch as people step up their game..

then when we finish on the + side of .500
how many bchilly haters will switch to the purple side?
there is to much to work on i think for them to make a 9-7 run.. but. i see improvement. it's coming.. that light at the end of the tunnel is the playoff.. not the train!!


DiGiTaL



If that happens I will be the first to put down the bong and praise his name up and down every board I post on, but I think that's asking waaay too much from this team. A few big plays maybe seing sidney emerge a bit more and peterson making rookie of the year will be enough for me to be hopeful.


Me as well. Even marginal improvement should give hope for the future. I'd be pretty stoked if we finished 7-9. I don't expect that. But some consistant improvement in the offense would be enough for me.

Marrdro
11-01-2007, 12:23 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


These what ifs really get me pissed. The fact is we are not 5-2. We have lack of execution on both sides of the ball and I shaky QB. He needs to stay healthy so we can see if he is the answer. This season is frustrating not because we are 2-5 but because there is no progress. I am happy we are close in games and we have some good talent. I am not happy that we are halfway through the season and I have not seen anything to tell me that Childress is making us a better team.

Some extra wins would be nice as a true indicator that we are getting better, however, I do see improvement.

We haven't been blown out yet and have been pretty competitive against some pretty decent teams.
Zone Blocking Scheme seems to be working better (See next improvement).
We lead the league in rushing.
We have more def INT's than our opponents so far.
We are 20th in the leage with Pts.
The Defense hasn't gotten any worse against the run after the new D-coord game in.
ST is a strenght and not a weakness.
We alread have 9 D TD's, last year we only had 3.

If ya really really really really really dig, you can find some sunshine my friend in every storm.

;D


Some good points. So why the hell do we keep losing games? QB. I really hope TJ can develop or we need to get a vet in here that can get us over these close games.


We are only in these games cause of 2 things.
1).
The Coaches are doing a gol 'darnit good job with the talent on hand.
2).
The youngsters in most cases are playing at or above a Vet level now.



That is funny Marrdro.
Coaches doing a good job.
I guess that was sarcasm.
Actually, we are 2-5 because of poor coaching.
Les Steckel would have had this team 3-4 at the worst.

It wasn't meant to be funny.
Did you see a smiley face?

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

What year do you expect a player to start making impact after he is drafted (1rst Round/2nd Round/3rd Round/4th Round/5th Round/6th Round/7th Round/Undrafted FA)?

Other than TJ, do you believe that the players drafted in 2006 and 2007 are playing below or above were they are supposed to be?

Do you believe that the first year players (other than the 2006 and 2007 class) are contributing at or above expectations?

I have repeatedly given examples of were and how I believe the team has improved today.
I have also highlighted some areas of concern.


Please enlighten me with your wisdom of were I am off the mark?
Maybe that will help me understand why you believe that our coachings staff isn't doing a pretty damn good job with the players they have this year.

PurplePeopleEaters
11-01-2007, 12:28 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"MNgriff" wrote:


"digital420" wrote:


if we still have a + attitude in the locker room.. and start with 1 win.. we might see a resurgence in the playmakers, and watch as people step up their game..

then when we finish on the + side of .500
how many bchilly haters will switch to the purple side?
there is to much to work on i think for them to make a 9-7 run.. but. i see improvement. it's coming.. that light at the end of the tunnel is the playoff.. not the train!!


DiGiTaL



If that happens I will be the first to put down the bong and praise his name up and down every board I post on, but I think that's asking waaay too much from this team. A few big plays maybe seing sidney emerge a bit more and peterson making rookie of the year will be enough for me to be hopeful.


Me as well. Even marginal improvement should give hope for the future. I'd be pretty stoked if we finished 7-9. I don't expect that. But some consistant improvement in the offense would be enough for me.


Yep, that's what we're all looking for. None of that changes the fact that the improvement that we're looking for isn't there yet. Will it ever come? I would hope to see a little improvement before this season is over or else Chilly needs to go for sure. We haven't improved in the slightest since the start of 2006. Our QB situation is worse, our offensive line is as bad as ever, our WR's are about the same, our pass rush is just as bad, our pass D is just as bad, our run D has gotten worse....



What happens if the improvement never happens Digital? Will you switch over to the purple dark side and become a Fire Childress fan?

snowinapril
11-01-2007, 12:34 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:




These what ifs really get me pissed. The fact is we are not 5-2. We have lack of execution on both sides of the ball and I shaky QB. He needs to stay healthy so we can see if he is the answer. This season is frustrating not because we are 2-5 but because there is no progress. I am happy we are close in games and we have some good talent. I am not happy that we are halfway through the season and I have not seen anything to tell me that Childress is making us a better team.

Some extra wins would be nice as a true indicator that we are getting better, however, I do see improvement.

We haven't been blown out yet and have been pretty competitive against some pretty decent teams.
Zone Blocking Scheme seems to be working better (See next improvement).
We lead the league in rushing.
We have more def INT's than our opponents so far.
We are 20th in the leage with Pts.
The Defense hasn't gotten any worse against the run after the new D-coord game in.
ST is a strenght and not a weakness.
We alread have 9 D TD's, last year we only had 3.

If ya really really really really really dig, you can find some sunshine my friend in every storm.
;D


Some good points. So why the hell do we keep losing games? QB. I really hope TJ can develop or we need to get a vet in here that can get us over these close games.


We are only in these games cause of 2 things.
1).
The Coaches are doing a gol 'darnit good job with the talent on hand.
2).
The youngsters in most cases are playing at or above a Vet level now.



That is funny Marrdro.
Coaches doing a good job.
I guess that was sarcasm.
Actually, we are 2-5 because of poor coaching.
Les Steckel would have had this team 3-4 at the worst.

It wasn't meant to be funny.
Did you see a smiley face?

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

What year do you expect a player to start making impact after he is drafted (1rst Round/2nd Round/3rd Round/4th Round/5th Round/6th Round/7th Round/Undrafted FA)?

Other than TJ, do you believe that the players drafted in 2006 and 2007 are playing below or above were they are supposed to be?

Do you believe that the first year players (other than the 2006 and 2007 class) are contributing at or above expectations?

I have repeatedly given examples of were and how I believe the team has improved today.
I have also highlighted some areas of concern.


Please enlighten me with your wisdom of were I am off the mark?
Maybe that will help me understand why you believe that our coachings staff isn't doing a pretty gol 'darnit good job with the players they have this year.


Well put Mar!
Tough question that would require a lot of thought.
Any takers?

Marrdro
11-01-2007, 12:37 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"MNgriff" wrote:


"digital420" wrote:


if we still have a + attitude in the locker room.. and start with 1 win.. we might see a resurgence in the playmakers, and watch as people step up their game..

then when we finish on the + side of .500
how many bchilly haters will switch to the purple side?
there is to much to work on i think for them to make a 9-7 run.. but. i see improvement. it's coming.. that light at the end of the tunnel is the playoff.. not the train!!


DiGiTaL



If that happens I will be the first to put down the bong and praise his name up and down every board I post on, but I think that's asking waaay too much from this team. A few big plays maybe seing sidney emerge a bit more and peterson making rookie of the year will be enough for me to be hopeful.


Me as well. Even marginal improvement should give hope for the future. I'd be pretty stoked if we finished 7-9. I don't expect that. But some consistant improvement in the offense would be enough for me.


Yep, that's what we're all looking for. None of that changes the fact that the improvement that we're looking for isn't there yet. Will it ever come? I would hope to see a little improvement before this season is over or else Chilly needs to go for sure. We haven't improved in the slightest since the start of 2006. Our QB situation is worse, our offensive line is as bad as ever, our WR's are about the same, our pass rush is just as bad, our pass D is just as bad, our run D has gotten worse....



What happens if the improvement never happens Digital? Will you switch over to the purple dark side and become a Fire Childress fan?

Give ya the QB issue.
Definately not better.
ZB is working.
We lead the league in rushing for a reason.
Pass protection is still an issue.
We have more INT's and TD's on D.
How can that be worse.
Not so sure about our Run D.
Thought it was like a 60 - 70 yds a game.


Comeon.
There has been improvement.
Just not at the QB level.

mountainviking
11-01-2007, 01:03 PM
Positive but realistic...that's how I feel.
Playoffs?
Did somebody say, Playoffs?!??
Don't even think playoffs!!!!

Close games against tough opponents like Dallas and GB should keep their (and ours) hopes up!
We've got games coming up that we can win, and every game played gives our young boys that much more experience and eventually, confidence.
Every game there are a few just missed plays...overthrown, dropped passes etc...when all this talent gets on the same page, we might just have something special.


Right now, the potential is HUGE, we just have to ride out the growing pains for awhile before its realized.

bleedpurple
11-01-2007, 01:22 PM
I guess the reality of it is.. YES, we do have young players.. the fact of the matter is, QB and WR are the two toughest positions in football to be successful in early on.. You usually don't see improvement or see the players "get it" until year 3.
(generally speaking across the board) yes there are exceptions...

With that said.. I don't think we've drafted bad at all!!!
Based on hindsight, we could have had a few different players here and there.. but during the draft, based on the information we had then, we've had pretty solid drafts... whether our coaches have gotten them to develop is a different story..

The thing with our coaches, is this!!
We have a lot of speed on offense.. specifically Troy W., AP.. rice.. these guys need to be used in such a way that we take advantage of their speed and/or playmaking ability...

Take the pats for instance... They use short passes as an extension of the running game.. or the packers where they use alot of screen passes...

I have yet to understand how at this point.. when your offense is stalling the way it is, why they havent come up with a way to get some of these guys the ball in a position to make a play.. That goes for the defense too... as sharper pointed out in an article posted on either startribune.com or pioneer press..

and what the Heck!!
Mewelde is sitting over there on the bench, and while he doesn't have great speed... that dude can break tackles about as good as anybody and he sitting over there rotting on the bench... he can catch and all that... i really don't get it... clearly our 3 backs we have might be better than some or all of our receivers at this point... why not utilize some of their playmaking ability and play to our personnel's strengths..?

I think what the people want to see... atleast from the coaches and the stagnant offense is some imagination... or atleast some type of competent attempt to use our personnel in such a way that we get our playmakers the ball in a position to make a play...

it doesn't make sense really....

and our pass defense sucks because we have NO pass rush!!!
haven't really had one in years...

Marrdro
11-01-2007, 01:38 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


I guess the reality of it is.. YES, we do have young players.. the fact of the matter is, QB and WR are the two toughest positions in football to be successful in early on.. You usually don't see improvement or see the players "get it" until year 3.
(generally speaking across the board) yes there are exceptions...

With that said.. I don't think we've drafted bad at all!!!
Based on hindsight, we could have had a few different players here and there.. but during the draft, based on the information we had then, we've had pretty solid drafts... whether our coaches have gotten them to develop is a different story..

The thing with our coaches, is this!!
We have a lot of speed on offense.. specifically Troy W., AP.. rice.. these guys need to be used in such a way that we take advantage of their speed and/or playmaking ability...

Take the pats for instance... They use short passes as an extension of the running game.. or the packers where they use alot of screen passes...

I have yet to understand how at this point.. when your offense is stalling the way it is, why they havent come up with a way to get some of these guys the ball in a position to make a play.. That goes for the defense too... as sharper pointed out in an article posted on either startribune.com or pioneer press..

and what the Heck!!
Mewelde is sitting over there on the bench, and while he doesn't have great speed... that dude can break tackles about as good as anybody and he sitting over there rotting on the bench... he can catch and all that... i really don't get it... clearly our 3 backs we have might be better than some or all of our receivers at this point... why not utilize some of their playmaking ability and play to our personnel's strengths..?

I think what the people want to see... atleast from the coaches and the stagnant offense is some imagination... or atleast some type of competent attempt to use our personnel in such a way that we get our playmakers the ball in a position to make a play...

it doesn't make sense really....

and our pass defense sucks because we have NO pass rush!!!
haven't really had one in years...

Very nice post my friend.
Very nice indeed.

I like your comment on speed.
We do have a couple of pretty good options with T-will deep and B-wade on the short slants.
Problem with that is deep routes take time.

Seems to me that what with the struggles we've seen our Tackles have that is kindof a hard one to crack.


We did see T-will get deep, but that was on a max protect scheme with basically T-will running a straight deep route and everyone else protecting.
At the last minute T-rich and Shank did release and get into thier patterns and were open.
I thought that was a well designed play.


As for B-wade, my opinion on that is TJ just doesn't/hasn't figured out he can throw the ball to a spot that Bobby would get to.
B-wade has made a couple of catches in that area but just not enough.
With that said, I think it is a QB issue and not so much a scheme/coaches use issue.

I think that some of Sharpers comments were a bit off the mark or missused.
Our D has been in positions to make plays and in fact have made some gol 'darnit good ones.

Last year we had 21 total INTs with 4 going for TD's, this year we already have 2 TD's off of 7 INTS.
Last year our D had 25 total fumble recoveries, this year we have already have 12.
Kenech, playing back at his normal position has 4 with the rookie Robison also having 4.
Thats amazing as in most cases the staff takes Keneche out and puts Robison in (puts him in the position to make a play) during certain situations.

Anyway, I could keep pulling crap up and highlighing it, however, you could do the same.
Just did a bit into the stats and compare stuff and you will see that there are thing being done by the coaches that some either aren't aware of cause they don't read it in a paper or don't know how to get out of a stat page.

Again, a great post that lead to a great discussion.
;D

Zeus
11-01-2007, 01:46 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


ZB is working.
We lead the league in rushing for a reason.
Pass protection is still an issue.


That's not a valid conclusion, Marrdro.


"Vikes Lead League in Rushing" so "ZB is working" is not necessarily true.
The addition of superior talent at the halfback position, more comfort from the o-line from working together for a 2nd season and many other things could be contributing factors.
Assigning all success to zone-blocking is shaky, at best, even with your OL knowledge.

=Z=

Marrdro
11-01-2007, 01:53 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


ZB is working.
We lead the league in rushing for a reason.
Pass protection is still an issue.


That's not a valid conclusion, Marrdro.


"Vikes Lead League in Rushing" so "ZB is working" is not necessarily true.
The addition of superior talent at the halfback position, more comfort from the o-line from working together for a 2nd season and many other things could be contributing factors.
Assigning all success to zone-blocking is shaky, at best, even with your OL knowledge.

=Z=

I see you point my friend.


Two comments.


First, ZB isn't just the OL, but involves FB, TE and WRs to execute.

Second.

I don't have any metrics to base this off of, but what
I do have are the notes (didn't take any last game as I was a bit under) that show how many times the back has to dodge someone in the backfield vice after he gets through the line.

That number has been going down every week.
In fact, last week I saw at least 3 tackles on our RBs from behind after they'd got through the line that would have even been bigger gains.

Again, not scientific data, just my observations and the one stat that counts, we lead the league.


I still contend that if we could get a bit better play out of our Tackles during obvious passing situations, this could start to click a bit.
;D

Overlord
11-01-2007, 02:41 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


The thing with our coaches, is this!!
We have a lot of speed on offense.. specifically Troy W., AP.. rice.. these guys need to be used in such a way that we take advantage of their speed and/or playmaking ability...

Take the pats for instance... They use short passes as an extension of the running game.. or the packers where they use alot of screen passes...

I have yet to understand how at this point.. when your offense is stalling the way it is, why they havent come up with a way to get some of these guys the ball in a position to make a play..

I think they're trying.
When you see passes overthrown or dropped, that's usually not the coaches fault.
The fact is that our skill players, other than AD and Taylor, aren't very good.
Rice and TJ have potential, but the rest are average or worse.

The Pats are actually a great example of how this can work and why it isn't working for us.
I won't go into detail on all the matchups, but suffice it to say that the Patriots WRs, TEs, and RBs are good enough to demand at least seven defenders in coverage on every play.
With only 4 rushing, Brady just has to wait until one of his guys beats someone one-on-one.
Teams that send more will often leave the RB uncovered, because he isn't likely to burn you for a big one.
RBs got 9 catches for the Patriots last week against the Redskins.
The Colts have a very similar situation and a QB that is equally patient, willing to take advantage of whatever matchup favors his team.

Compare that to the Vikings.
Our receivers are terrible.
You can matchup one-on-one with any of our guys without fear.
Our WRs can't get open consistantly against one guy.
You keep only one safety back, in the unlikely event that the QB throws a decent long pass to Williamson.
But you can take chances on that too, because he probably won't catch it.
On the other hand, our RBs have a bullseye on them.
Other teams will just refuse to leave them uncovered.
I imagine there will be teams running zones with a RB spy, rather than a QB spy, against us.
AD will likely have at least two LBs keeing on him, or a LB and safety.

So, one of two things will happen.
Our WRs will continue to drop balls while our QBs miss throws, and our passing offense will continue to do nothing.
Either that or our WRs will catch well thrown balls and defenses will begin to play them honestly, allowing us to complete short passes to our WRs or RBs.


That goes for the defense too... as sharper pointed out in an article posted on either startribune.com or pioneer press..

Yeah, defensive players always want to be let loose to make plays.
The problem is that those tactics usually lead to big plays being made against them.
This is a defensive players mentality: they would rather get an INT and see one of the corners burned for a TD than not get the INT and not give up the big play.
Our scoring defense has been okay.
If we don't give up any points, I don't care how many yards we give up or how many INTs we get.



and what the Heck!!
Mewelde is sitting over there on the bench, and while he doesn't have great speed... that dude can break tackles about as good as anybody and he sitting over there rotting on the bench... he can catch and all that... i really don't get it... clearly our 3 backs we have might be better than some or all of our receivers at this point... why not utilize some of their playmaking ability and play to our personnel's strengths..?

He's not as good at RB as our other guys at that position, and he's not as good at WR as our WRs.
I doubt we have any plays drawn up to run out of the wishbone.
I just don't see how he helps other than as depth.
But if we need him so that we can run the ball 60 times, I'm all for it.


I think what the people want to see... atleast from the coaches and the stagnant offense is some imagination... or atleast some type of competent attempt to use our personnel in such a way that we get our playmakers the ball in a position to make a play...

it doesn't make sense really....

People want to see success moving the ball and wins.
Imagination isn't that important.
If we ran 60 dive plays, ran for 300 yards, and won 31-10, people would be happy.
But you're right, we get that success when we have our good players do the things they're good at.


and our pass defense sucks because we have NO pass rush!!!
haven't really had one in years...


We're not good enough to get there with 4 regularly, and for some reason our blitzes stink.
I think we do a poor job disguising the blitz packages, so other teams pick it up relatively easily.


But a lot of teams have this problem.
Getting to the QB regularly is one of the hardest things to do in this league.
This is why teams draft pass rushing DEs so high and why they don't let them leave in FA.
I'd say we're about average up front in that regard.
There are only a few elite teams when it comes to getting to the QB.

bleedpurple
11-01-2007, 03:10 PM
"Overlord" wrote:


"bleedpurple" wrote:


The thing with our coaches, is this!!
We have a lot of speed on offense.. specifically Troy W., AP.. rice.. these guys need to be used in such a way that we take advantage of their speed and/or playmaking ability...

Take the pats for instance... They use short passes as an extension of the running game.. or the packers where they use alot of screen passes...

I have yet to understand how at this point.. when your offense is stalling the way it is, why they havent come up with a way to get some of these guys the ball in a position to make a play..

I think they're trying.
When you see passes overthrown or dropped, that's usually not the coaches fault.
The fact is that our skill players, other than AD and Taylor, aren't very good.
Rice and TJ have potential, but the rest are average or worse.

The Pats are actually a great example of how this can work and why it isn't working for us.
I won't go into detail on all the matchups, but suffice it to say that the Patriots WRs, TEs, and RBs are good enough to demand at least seven defenders in coverage on every play.
With only 4 rushing, Brady just has to wait until one of his guys beats someone one-on-one.
Teams that send more will often leave the RB uncovered, because he isn't likely to burn you for a big one.
RBs got 9 catches for the Patriots last week against the Redskins.
The Colts have a very similar situation and a QB that is equally patient, willing to take advantage of whatever matchup favors his team.

Compare that to the Vikings.
Our receivers are terrible.
You can matchup one-on-one with any of our guys without fear.
Our WRs can't get open consistantly against one guy.
You keep only one safety back, in the unlikely event that the QB throws a decent long pass to Williamson.
But you can take chances on that too, because he probably won't catch it.
On the other hand, our RBs have a bullseye on them.
Other teams will just refuse to leave them uncovered.
I imagine there will be teams running zones with a RB spy, rather than a QB spy, against us.
AD will likely have at least two LBs keeing on him, or a LB and safety.

So, one of two things will happen.
Our WRs will continue to drop balls while our QBs miss throws, and our passing offense will continue to do nothing.
Either that or our WRs will catch well thrown balls and defenses will begin to play them honestly, allowing us to complete short passes to our WRs or RBs.


That goes for the defense too... as sharper pointed out in an article posted on either startribune.com or pioneer press..

Yeah, defensive players always want to be let loose to make plays.
The problem is that those tactics usually lead to big plays being made against them.
This is a defensive players mentality: they would rather get an INT and see one of the corners burned for a TD than not get the INT and not give up the big play.
Our scoring defense has been okay.
If we don't give up any points, I don't care how many yards we give up or how many INTs we get.



and what the Heck!!
Mewelde is sitting over there on the bench, and while he doesn't have great speed... that dude can break tackles about as good as anybody and he sitting over there rotting on the bench... he can catch and all that... i really don't get it... clearly our 3 backs we have might be better than some or all of our receivers at this point... why not utilize some of their playmaking ability and play to our personnel's strengths..?

He's not as good at RB as our other guys at that position, and he's not as good at WR as our WRs.
I doubt we have any plays drawn up to run out of the wishbone.
I just don't see how he helps other than as depth.
But if we need him so that we can run the ball 60 times, I'm all for it.


I think what the people want to see... atleast from the coaches and the stagnant offense is some imagination... or atleast some type of competent attempt to use our personnel in such a way that we get our playmakers the ball in a position to make a play...

it doesn't make sense really....

People want to see success moving the ball and wins.
Imagination isn't that important.
If we ran 60 dive plays, ran for 300 yards, and won 31-10, people would be happy.
But you're right, we get that success when we have our good players do the things they're good at.


and our pass defense sucks because we have NO pass rush!!!
haven't really had one in years...


We're not good enough to get there with 4 regularly, and for some reason our blitzes stink.
I think we do a poor job disguising the blitz packages, so other teams pick it up relatively easily.


But a lot of teams have this problem.
Getting to the QB regularly is one of the hardest things to do in this league.
This is why teams draft pass rushing DEs so high and why they don't let them leave in FA.
I'd say we're about average up front in that regard.
There are only a few elite teams when it comes to getting to the QB.


OK, so to respond to Overlord and Marrdro... (no offense)

That's the thing about bloggin or posting... you can't say everything as if you were talking...

But to reinterate or elaborate!!

When i was referring to the patriots.. i was referring to their team of receivers last year... and how they still managed to be effective.. even though they all sucked... not the receivers they have today...
that would have been an assinine comparison no matter how you look at it...

and when i said use their speed.. while deep routes and such are good... i mean wr screens, quick passes, comebacks..... which in turn would open up the deep ball... I agree Wade.(who i think isn't very good anyway..) and fergie are pretty much average.. if not worse...

Referring to Mewelde moore... I'm not saying using him as a receiver, but more as an option outta the backfield with AP back there... you could switch it up whatever.. but if you have say troy run a go route on one side.. what does that do.. clear out that zone.. AP or memo, or both, could come outta the backfield at that point.. while one other receiver run another route.. that gets them in space to do what they do best.. and that's break tackles.. at the very least it would move the chains..

as for sharper.. i don't agree.. all that dude did is lead the NFL in picks over the last however many years it is... and while we play cover two.. there are options within the cover two or whatever defense they wanna run to free those guys up from time to time to make plays...

as far as imagination??
I'll put it this way... I don't care if they run 60 dive plays and we win either.. but if the offense your running is "NOT WORKING" then you do things to let your playmakers make plays.... I.e. being creative with the guys we have to get them in postion to make a play....
if we were scoring or playing well, then that'd be one thing.. but everyone knows how stubborn Brad is.. and I feel like our offense is predictable.. so be creative...

as for the pass rush... I'm sorry.. but we need to do something... i know it's the hardes thing to do to get the the QB.. but everyone else in the league is not 32nd in the league in pass defense over the last two years... I know scoring Defense and all that... but c'mon.. since the first few games, our pass rush has been horrible... and it keeps us from getting off the field on third down...

Hasnt anybody else noticed that we're one of the best teams over the last few years at forcing third and long... but one of the worst in third down coversions...????

I consider that a huge problem... So they need to do something to get some pressure on the QB... Shot, this is a copy-cat league... i highly doubt that there isn't something that can be done...

jkjuggalo
11-01-2007, 03:39 PM
If we pull off the upset against SD, it would not be impossible to run the table or suffer only one or two losses.
We are about to hit the softest part of our schedule w/ the toughest games in GB and against the Giants, both teams we are capable of beating.
Lets hope TJ turns it around this week.

Overlord
11-01-2007, 03:42 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


OK, so to respond to Overlord and Marrdro...

That's the thing about bloggin or posting... you can't say everything as if you were talking...

But to reinterate or elaborate!!

When i was referring to the patriots.. i was referring to their team of receivers last year... and how they still managed to be effective.. even though they all sucked... not the receivers they have today...
that would have been an assinine comparison no matter how you look at it...

and when i said use their speed.. while deep routes and such are good... i mean wr screens, quick passes, comebacks..... which in turn would open up the deep ball... I agree Wade.(who i think isn't very good anyway..) and fergie are pretty much average.. if not worse...

I hear you on the comparison to the old Pats.
I still think that our talent at the QB and WR position hurts us a lot when we do try to do that.
The Pats were able to do that last year with average receivers in large part because they have a great QB.
Brady can usually read the defense well before the play in order to determine where his best option will be, and then he delivers the ball on time and accurately.
Our QBs have a harder time making reads, are under more pressure, and have problems with accuaracy.

The other problem is that teams play tight on our WRs.
Our deep ball potential is terrible.
Even with average WRs, Brady was able to threaten with the deep ball to Gaffney last year.
When DBs play tight, those short curls and WR screens don't work as well.
The slants should still work against man coverage as long as the CB is shading outside and isn't getting help from the LBs.


Referring to Mewelde moore... I'm not saying using him as a receiver, but more as an option outta the backfield with AP back there... you could switch it up whatever.. but if you have say troy run a go route on one side.. what does that do.. clear out that zone.. AP or memo, or both, could come outta the backfield at that point.. while one other receiver run another route.. that gets them in space to do what they do best.. and that's break tackles.. at the very least it would move the chains..

I just think that if you're going to have two in there, then you have AD and CT.
I don't think Moore is a huge drop off from Taylor, but unless you run it 60 times or you have injuries, two RBs is enough.

The play you diagrammed is good.
The reason we can't make it work consistantly is that teams will key on our RBs more than against other teams.
That RB is going to be covered by a LB.
You still have to try though, and give our best players (RBs) chances to make plays.


as for sharper.. i don't agree.. all that dude did is lead the NFL in picks over the last however many years it is... and while we play cover two.. there are options within the cover two or whatever defense they wanna run to free those guys up from time to time to make plays...

Yeah, we can be more aggressive and I would be fine with that.
But I think our scheme is actually working okay.
I don't want to see players freelancing or our defense completely change at this point (I could be brought around if it worked).

I don't think Sharper is a bad guy for making those comments, or that the comments are stupid.
I was mostly just commenting that everybody wants to do exciting things, and everybody thinks about themselves.
The coaches need to think about how the team can be more successful.
Sometimes that means being aggressive, sometimes not.
Whatever works.
The coaches aren't perfect either, though.


as far as imagination??
I'll put it this way... I don't care if they run 60 dive plays and we win either.. but if the offense your running is "NOT WORKING" then you do things to let your playmakers make plays.... I.e. being creative with the guys we have to get them in postion to make a play....
if we were scoring or playing well, then that'd be one thing.. but everyone knows how stubborn Brad is.. and I feel like our offense is predictable.. so be creative...

I agree with the first part.
Do what works.
If nothing works, find something that does.

I don't think it's really about being creative though.
Preparation, talent, decision making, and execution.


as for the pass rush... I'm sorry.. but we need to do something... i know it's the hardes thing to do to get the the QB.. but everyone else in the league is not 32nd in the league in pass defense over the last two years... I know scoring Defense and all that... but c'mon.. since the first few games, our pass rush has been horrible... and it keeps us from getting off the field on third down...

Hasnt anybody else noticed that we're one of the best teams over the last few years at forcing third and long... but one of the worst in third down coversions...????

I consider that a huge problem... So they need to do something to get some pressure on the QB... Shot, this is a copy-cat league... i highly doubt that there isn't something that can be done...


You're right that it's not good enough.
I just disagree with that last statement.
I'm guessing that there's not much we could do right now.
The fact that so many teams have this problem just shows how hard it can be.

The biggest issue for me is that when we blitz it is usually ineffective.
Perhaps we can disguise our blitzes better?
I'm not sure though.

vikingivan
11-01-2007, 04:14 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:




These what ifs really get me pissed. The fact is we are not 5-2. We have lack of execution on both sides of the ball and I shaky QB. He needs to stay healthy so we can see if he is the answer. This season is frustrating not because we are 2-5 but because there is no progress. I am happy we are close in games and we have some good talent. I am not happy that we are halfway through the season and I have not seen anything to tell me that Childress is making us a better team.

Some extra wins would be nice as a true indicator that we are getting better, however, I do see improvement.

We haven't been blown out yet and have been pretty competitive against some pretty decent teams.
Zone Blocking Scheme seems to be working better (See next improvement).
We lead the league in rushing.
We have more def INT's than our opponents so far.
We are 20th in the leage with Pts.
The Defense hasn't gotten any worse against the run after the new D-coord game in.
ST is a strenght and not a weakness.
We alread have 9 D TD's, last year we only had 3.

If ya really really really really really dig, you can find some sunshine my friend in every storm.

;D


Some good points. So why the hell do we keep losing games? QB. I really hope TJ can develop or we need to get a vet in here that can get us over these close games.


We are only in these games cause of 2 things.
1).
The Coaches are doing a gol 'darnit good job with the talent on hand.
2).
The youngsters in most cases are playing at or above a Vet level now.



That is funny Marrdro.
Coaches doing a good job.
I guess that was sarcasm.
Actually, we are 2-5 because of poor coaching.
Les Steckel would have had this team 3-4 at the worst.

It wasn't meant to be funny.
Did you see a smiley face?

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

What year do you expect a player to start making impact after he is drafted (1rst Round/2nd Round/3rd Round/4th Round/5th Round/6th Round/7th Round/Undrafted FA)?

Other than TJ, do you believe that the players drafted in 2006 and 2007 are playing below or above were they are supposed to be?

Do you believe that the first year players (other than the 2006 and 2007 class) are contributing at or above expectations?

I have repeatedly given examples of were and how I believe the team has improved today.
I have also highlighted some areas of concern.


Please enlighten me with your wisdom of were I am off the mark?
Maybe that will help me understand why you believe that our coachings staff isn't doing a pretty gol 'darnit good job with the players they have this year.


Why don't I think our coaches are doing a good job?
In the Detroit game our quarterback threw four interceptions.
Yet, we continued to pass late in a tie game.
I would think an intelligent coach would recognize his quarterback having a bad day and keep pounding the ball.
One loss to poor coaching.

Green Bay--Adrian Peterson had what 10 carries for 108 yards in the first half.
He got two carries the second half.
Two losses to poor coaching.

Kansas City--4th quarter, Vikes down 13-10.
Vikings ball 1st and 10 from their own 36.
Peterson runs for 6 yards.
2nd down and 4, Holcomb incomplete pass, flagged for intentional grounding.
3rd and 14, incomplete.
Punt.
Vikings get the ball with 3 minutes to go at their 37.
Peterson for a gain of 3.
2nd and 7, incomplete, 3rd and 7 incomplete.
Punt, eventually lose by 3.
three losses due to poor coaching.

Dallas--Our quarterback completes 6 passes the entire game, yet Peterson only gets 12 carries.
That is definately poor coaching.
But, I won't credit the loss with poor coaching.

Philadelphia--two of the most absurd challenges I have ever witnessed.
That is either poor coaching or just plain stupidity.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=27923012&period=4

C Mac D
11-01-2007, 04:20 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


Why don't I think our coaches are doing a good job?
In the Detroit game our quarterback threw four interceptions.
Yet, we continued to pass late in a tie game.
I would think an intelligent coach would recognize his quarterback having a bad day and keep pounding the ball.
One loss to poor coaching.

Green Bay--Adrian Peterson had what 10 carries for 108 yards in the first half.
He got two carries the second half.
Two losses to poor coaching.

Kansas City--4th quarter, Vikes down 13-10.
Vikings ball 1st and 10 from their own 36.
Peterson runs for 6 yards.
2nd down and 4, Holcomb incomplete pass, flagged for intentional grounding.
3rd and 14, incomplete.
Punt.
Vikings get the ball with 3 minutes to go at their 37.
Peterson for a gain of 3.
2nd and 7, incomplete, 3rd and 7 incomplete.
Punt, eventually lose by 3.
three losses due to poor coaching.

Dallas--Our quarterback completes 6 passes the entire game, yet Peterson only gets 12 carries.
That is definately poor coaching.
But, I won't credit the loss with poor coaching.

Philadelphia--two of the most absurd challenges I have ever witnessed.
That is either poor coaching or just plain stupidity.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=27923012&period=4


I stupidity lends itself to poor coaching. But Brad is flat out dumb.

Nice post though, I usually just say "Fire Childress" but you gave reasons... interesting concept. I should take notes.

Frostbite
11-01-2007, 04:28 PM
"C" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


Why don't I think our coaches are doing a good job?
In the Detroit game our quarterback threw four interceptions.
Yet, we continued to pass late in a tie game.
I would think an intelligent coach would recognize his quarterback having a bad day and keep pounding the ball.
One loss to poor coaching.

Green Bay--Adrian Peterson had what 10 carries for 108 yards in the first half.
He got two carries the second half.
Two losses to poor coaching.

Kansas City--4th quarter, Vikes down 13-10.
Vikings ball 1st and 10 from their own 36.
Peterson runs for 6 yards.
2nd down and 4, Holcomb incomplete pass, flagged for intentional grounding.
3rd and 14, incomplete.
Punt.
Vikings get the ball with 3 minutes to go at their 37.
Peterson for a gain of 3.
2nd and 7, incomplete, 3rd and 7 incomplete.
Punt, eventually lose by 3.
three losses due to poor coaching.

Dallas--Our quarterback completes 6 passes the entire game, yet Peterson only gets 12 carries.
That is definately poor coaching.
But, I won't credit the loss with poor coaching.

Philadelphia--two of the most absurd challenges I have ever witnessed.
That is either poor coaching or just plain stupidity.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=27923012&period=4


I stupidity lends itself to poor coaching. But Brad is flat out dumb.

Nice post though, I usually just say "Fire Childress" but you gave reasons... interesting concept. I should take notes.





Not trying to step on any toes here. I respect your positions as I have been reading through the posts. A lot of good points were raised on many issues here.

I must say I have to disagree with the "Brad is flat out dumb". comment however. It should be obvious to every fan that Childress is indeed a very smart man. He was able to convince a lot of folks that (Right or Wrong) he was the right guy for the Head Coaching Job. That took a lot of figuring and thought to accomplish....unless you consider Ziggy an idiot too??


Cheers!

Zeus
11-01-2007, 04:29 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


Dallas--Our quarterback completes 6 passes the entire game, yet Peterson only gets 12 carries.
That is definately poor coaching.
But, I won't credit the loss with poor coaching.


Ah yes - that old chestnut.
Will you tell us next about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?

=Z=

snowinapril
11-01-2007, 05:01 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


Dallas--Our quarterback completes 6 passes the entire game, yet Peterson only gets 12 carries.
That is definately poor coaching.
But, I won't credit the loss with poor coaching.


Ah yes - that old chestnut.
Will you tell us next about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?

=Z=


We would have to look at the Adrian ratio in that game, not the 12 carries.

We didn't have the ball that much.

TOTAL FIRST DOWNS
11
By Rushing 8
By Passing 3
By Penalty 0
THIRD DOWN EFFICIENCY 2/12 - 16%
FOURTH DOWN EFFICIENCY 1/1
- 100%
TOTAL NET YARDS 196
Total Rushing/Passing Plays (includes Sacks) 49
Average Gain per Offensive Play 4.0
NET YARDS RUSHING 131
Total Rushing Plays 27
Average Gain per Rushing Play 4.9
Tackled for a Loss (Number-Yards) 1-1
NET YARDS PASSING 65
Times Sacked (Number-Yards) 3 - 7
Gross Yards Passing 72
PASS COMP-ATT-INT 6 - 19 - 0
Average Gain per Passing Play (includes Sacks) 3.0
Rushing
ATT
YDS
TD
LG
A. Peterson 12 63 1 20
C. Taylor 10 47 0 16
T. Jackson 4 20 0 12
T. Richardson 1 1 0 1
Receiving REC YDS TD LG
T. Williamson 1 25 0 21
C. Taylor 3 19 0 9
B. Wade 1 16 0 16
A. Peterson 1 12 0 12

Vikes_King
11-01-2007, 05:05 PM
those stats are disturbing :(

Marrdro
11-04-2007, 10:45 AM
"C" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


Why don't I think our coaches are doing a good job?
In the Detroit game our quarterback threw four interceptions.
Yet, we continued to pass late in a tie game.
I would think an intelligent coach would recognize his quarterback having a bad day and keep pounding the ball.
One loss to poor coaching.

Green Bay--Adrian Peterson had what 10 carries for 108 yards in the first half.
He got two carries the second half.
Two losses to poor coaching.

Kansas City--4th quarter, Vikes down 13-10.
Vikings ball 1st and 10 from their own 36.
Peterson runs for 6 yards.
2nd down and 4, Holcomb incomplete pass, flagged for intentional grounding.
3rd and 14, incomplete.
Punt.
Vikings get the ball with 3 minutes to go at their 37.
Peterson for a gain of 3.
2nd and 7, incomplete, 3rd and 7 incomplete.
Punt, eventually lose by 3.
three losses due to poor coaching.

Dallas--Our quarterback completes 6 passes the entire game, yet Peterson only gets 12 carries.
That is definately poor coaching.
But, I won't credit the loss with poor coaching.

Philadelphia--two of the most absurd challenges I have ever witnessed.
That is either poor coaching or just plain stupidity.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=27923012&period=4


I stupidity lends itself to poor coaching. But Brad is flat out dumb.

Nice post though, I usually just say "Fire Childress" but you gave reasons... interesting concept. I should take notes.
Naw, your one line quips with no substance are what makes this site great.
;D

Marrdro
11-04-2007, 10:52 AM
"vikingivan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:






These what ifs really get me pissed. The fact is we are not 5-2. We have lack of execution on both sides of the ball and I shaky QB. He needs to stay healthy so we can see if he is the answer. This season is frustrating not because we are 2-5 but because there is no progress. I am happy we are close in games and we have some good talent. I am not happy that we are halfway through the season and I have not seen anything to tell me that Childress is making us a better team.

Some extra wins would be nice as a true indicator that we are getting better, however, I do see improvement.

We haven't been blown out yet and have been pretty competitive against some pretty decent teams.
Zone Blocking Scheme seems to be working better (See next improvement).
We lead the league in rushing.
We have more def INT's than our opponents so far.
We are 20th in the leage with Pts.
The Defense hasn't gotten any worse against the run after the new D-coord game in.
ST is a strenght and not a weakness.
We alread have 9 D TD's, last year we only had 3.

If ya really really really really really dig, you can find some sunshine my friend in every storm.

;D


Some good points. So why the hell do we keep losing games? QB. I really hope TJ can develop or we need to get a vet in here that can get us over these close games.


We are only in these games cause of 2 things.
1).
The Coaches are doing a gol 'darnit good job with the talent on hand.
2).
The youngsters in most cases are playing at or above a Vet level now.



That is funny Marrdro.
Coaches doing a good job.
I guess that was sarcasm.
Actually, we are 2-5 because of poor coaching.
Les Steckel would have had this team 3-4 at the worst.

It wasn't meant to be funny.
Did you see a smiley face?

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

What year do you expect a player to start making impact after he is drafted (1rst Round/2nd Round/3rd Round/4th Round/5th Round/6th Round/7th Round/Undrafted FA)?

Other than TJ, do you believe that the players drafted in 2006 and 2007 are playing below or above were they are supposed to be?

Do you believe that the first year players (other than the 2006 and 2007 class) are contributing at or above expectations?

I have repeatedly given examples of were and how I believe the team has improved today.
I have also highlighted some areas of concern.


Please enlighten me with your wisdom of were I am off the mark?
Maybe that will help me understand why you believe that our coachings staff isn't doing a pretty gol 'darnit good job with the players they have this year.


Why don't I think our coaches are doing a good job?
In the Detroit game our quarterback threw four interceptions.
Yet, we continued to pass late in a tie game.
I would think an intelligent coach would recognize his quarterback having a bad day and keep pounding the ball.
One loss to poor coaching.

Green Bay--Adrian Peterson had what 10 carries for 108 yards in the first half.
He got two carries the second half.
Two losses to poor coaching.

Kansas City--4th quarter, Vikes down 13-10.
Vikings ball 1st and 10 from their own 36.
Peterson runs for 6 yards.
2nd down and 4, Holcomb incomplete pass, flagged for intentional grounding.
3rd and 14, incomplete.
Punt.
Vikings get the ball with 3 minutes to go at their 37.
Peterson for a gain of 3.
2nd and 7, incomplete, 3rd and 7 incomplete.
Punt, eventually lose by 3.
three losses due to poor coaching.

Dallas--Our quarterback completes 6 passes the entire game, yet Peterson only gets 12 carries.
That is definately poor coaching.
But, I won't credit the loss with poor coaching.

Philadelphia--two of the most absurd challenges I have ever witnessed.
That is either poor coaching or just plain stupidity.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=27923012&period=4

You gotta bring something better than that my friend.

Everyone of those
have been hashed and re-hashed numerous times with no resolution.
Almost all of them come down to young players and poor execution.

Did the coach throw the INTs?
By the way has that happened again?
NOPE, probably something to do with coaching.

Did the coach throw the ball inside the T's for grounding?

Comeon my friend.
Gimme something better than that crap.
How about addressing the points that I made?


We haven't been blown out yet and have been pretty competitive against some pretty decent teams.
Zone Blocking Scheme seems to be working better (See next improvement).
We lead the league in rushing.
We have more def INT's than our opponents so far.
We are 20th in the leage with Pts.
The Defense hasn't gotten any worse against the run after the new D-coord game in.
ST is a strenght and not a weakness.
We alread have 9 D TD's, last year we only had 3.


Probably nothing to do with coaching I suppose.

::)

Obviously the title of this thread applies here.......


Some Vikings critics barely know team

happy camper
11-04-2007, 11:21 AM
The only problem Marr in that last post, is when a negative thing happens, you chalk it up to young players not executing. But when you look at the positives, you point out the coaching.

I don't know how you remain so positive. I was real positive even after the Chiefs, Packers, and Cowboys games. After the Eagles game, I just couldn't take it anymore. I think I was brought to earth with that one.

Marrdro
11-04-2007, 06:01 PM
"happy" wrote:


The only problem Marr in that last post, is when a negative thing happens, you chalk it up to young players not executing. But when you look at the positives, you point out the coaching.

I don't know how you remain so positive. I was real positive even after the Chiefs, Packers, and Cowboys games. After the Eagles game, I just couldn't take it anymore. I think I was brought to earth with that one.

Its my job.
I'm a fan.
All I can do is be positive and hope.

As for who I blame.
I think I am pretty liberal with blame.
Point is I argue with people who only blame the coaches so it appears that I don't pick on the players.
Go back and look at how hard I've been on the OL for the last 6 or 7 weeks and thier pass blocking abilities.
;D

As for players executing..........Did you see the mistakes on the field today?


Poor coverage by ST on first KO.
Tank late hit.
False starts.
Allison breaking his route off short.
TJ.
Two bad throws that should have been interceptions.
McKinnie/Cook not pass blocking well in the first half.
ST shitty coverage on long FG attempt.

Do you really think our coaches are coaching them to do that stuff or were those caused by players not executing?

COJOMAY
11-04-2007, 06:13 PM
Marrado proves the "Fair Weather" Rubes WRONG!
;D
;D
;D
;D

PurpleGator
11-04-2007, 06:15 PM
"singersp" wrote:


Sid Hartman: Some Vikings critics barely know team (http://www.startribune.com/507/story/1521336.html)

One author thinks hiring Brad Childress was a mistake, but team morale is good and they are just a few plays away from being 5-2 instead of 2-5.

By Sid Hartman, Star Tribune

Last update: October 31, 2007 – 10:45 PM


The Vikings are on the bottom of the NFC North, and the chances of them making the playoffs are almost zero.........



Sid will hold anybodys water.


I think he is getting way too old.
He can't even stay awake in interviews.

Marrdro
11-04-2007, 06:56 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


Marrado proves the "Fair Weather" Rubes WRONG!
;D
;D
;D
;D

Highs and lows my friend.
Highs and lows.


Today I am a very happy man.
;D

I think the announcers read this thread when they prepped for the game.
How many times did dizzzeldorf say how young the team was?

Putz.
JK, actually he called a pretty good game once we started shutting LT down.
I think they were all amazed.
Then AD got loose along with Rice and a TD.

Youngsters did great today my friend.
Good team effort by all.
;D