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Cleveland
10-31-2007, 10:12 PM
For what it's worth:

I am a Browns' fan living in Cleveland, but I stumbled upon this site and thought I'd give an opinion about Anderson, whom I have read many of you have wondered about due to his being a restricted FA in '08.
We will have to wait until this season is over to make a final determination, but it is my opinion that Anderson is the real deal.

For one thing, he has all the intangibles you want in a QB that really cannot be taught: He sees the field well, senses pressure in the pocket (Fry was sacked six times in a quarter and a half; Anderson eight times all season), gets rid of the ball quickly, and has a gung slinger's mentality.
Other than his lack of mobility, his physical skills are there as well (that is, he has a gun_).
His decision making -- which is one talent a QB can learn -- is not entirely there yet.
Then again, I can say the same thing about Romo and Eli Manning.

Surprisingly, Cleveland still seems to prefer Quinn over Anderson in the future, which proves to me browns' fans are a bunch of idiots.
It is like Clevelanders prefer one bird in the bush to two birds in the hand (which is why Bellichick is coaching in NE right now). The only reason why you get rid of Anderson for the sake of Quinn is if you believe he can b e better than Anderson, and if Anderson continues what he is doing now Quinn being better would be pretty tough indeed.
It is my opinion that if the Vikings have a chance to get either they should do it, even if that means multiple high picks for Anderson.
That is just my opinion though.

COJOMAY
10-31-2007, 10:18 PM
Nice post. Thanks for the info.

tb04512
10-31-2007, 10:20 PM
how about we give you our 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 round picks and you can give us Joe thomas, derek anderson, and braylon edwards
;D

DustinDupont
10-31-2007, 10:27 PM
i would like braylon.....

shockzilla
10-31-2007, 10:29 PM
Good post indeed. Also, good information to know about Anderson.

ultravikingfan
10-31-2007, 10:51 PM
Welcome!
Great post!
You hit the nail on the head.
I am a Viking fan in the Cleveland area (Medina) and it is not very hard to keep up with the Browns living here.
I listen to all talk radio, been to some games, and worked with a ton of their fans.

What I get from them is that they are happy with D.A., but they want to test drive the new car (Quinn).
When you look at the Browns this year they are surprising to say the least.
However, what sticks out to me is the winning % of the teams they beat; 2 of those teams have zero wins.

I am sure they will not be able to keep D.A. and pretty soon we will see Quinn.
I think against a quality opponent D.A. will have a much harder time.

PurplePeopleEaters
10-31-2007, 10:53 PM
This kind of reminds me of a quick version of the Rivers vs. Brees thing in SD. I see Anderson making a quick exit this offseason (demanding a trade or going RFA) to try and make his cash and take a full time starting QB role at the same time. Hopefully we're the team that sends the cash his direction...

DarrinNelsonguy
10-31-2007, 11:06 PM
Anderson was a 3rd round pick but they will most likely tender him at the highest value a 1st and a 3rd. So with our high pick it would be a lot to give up but he may be a better option than drafting another young QB.

COJOMAY
10-31-2007, 11:08 PM
If he's an unrestricted FA it will be straight cash, homey!

DarrinNelsonguy
10-31-2007, 11:09 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


If he's an unrestricted FA it will be straight cash, homey!


Would be nice but he is a RFA.

COJOMAY
10-31-2007, 11:13 PM
"DarrinNelsonguy" wrote:


"COJOMAY" wrote:


If he's an unrestricted FA it will be straight cash, homey!


Would be nice but he is a RFA.


RATS!
>:(

Schutz
10-31-2007, 11:25 PM
It would be nice if we could trade for him with a future conditional first round pick than RFA offer, mostly because I believe we will have a top 7 pick this off season, and giving up a 1st and 3rd rounder at 7th pick is a bit much for Derek Anderson in my opinion when you can sign an unrestricted free agent like McNabb and still sign a top 10 pick, maybe get ourselves another peterson level player.

DarrinNelsonguy
10-31-2007, 11:28 PM
"Schutz" wrote:


It would be nice if we could trade for him with a future conditional first round pick than RFA offer, mostly because I believe we will have a top 7 pick this off season, and giving up a 1st and 3rd rounder at 7th pick is a bit much for Derek Anderson in my opinion when you can sign an unrestricted free agent like McNabb and still sign a top 10 pick, maybe get ourselves another peterson level player.


They most likely will require a package similar to what Atlanta got for Schaub. I agree that a top 10 pick is too much for him, but they are going to want a 1st rounder because they traded theirs to Dallas this year to draft Quinn.

jkjuggalo
11-01-2007, 12:05 AM
Anderson is playing great this season, I'll give him that, but he is not worth a 1st round and 3rd round pick this offseason.
For all we know, he may not be able to run the KAO (not that anyone else has) either.
I'd rather we draft Woodson and coax Cowher out of retirement with the prospects of having AD, CT, Woodson, and a solid D to build around.

PurplePackerEater
11-01-2007, 12:37 AM
We don't need a QB, we'll be just fine with Jackson, Holcomb, and Bollinger.

PurplePackerEater
11-01-2007, 12:37 AM
NOT!

Childress, you're a fool.

snowinapril
11-01-2007, 01:08 AM
I would have to say that if we had a shot to acquire DA, we would have to do it.
TJ is a work in progress.
DA has sort of proven himself.

DA would at least be a potential long term QB unlike BB and KH who are reserve only QBs.

I remember a comment from an interview with Chilly from this past summer.
He made a comment that he would like to have one starting QB, one reserve and the 3rd would be in an emergency only role on the sideline.
That hasn't worked out very well for him.
We have put ourselves in the emergency position a few times already.
LOL!

Cleveland
11-01-2007, 08:17 AM
Well, it is my opinion that if Anderson continues what he is doing the Vikings first rounder may not be enough to get him.
Atlanta and Miami will look long and hard to get him and they should have a higher pick.
But if he signs with anyone as a restricted FA then the Browns get whatever team signs him first and third, providing the Browns tender him, which they will.
I still have hopes that the Browns sign him long term and, if possible, trade Quinn instead, but we shall see.
Quinn's stock has risen after his stellar preseason to the point that the Browns should be able to get a top ten choice for him if not more.
I would much rather have him then any QB available in this draft.

I see some of you wondering if Anderson is worth a high pick and I think he definitely is.
Does anyone here believe that Ryan will one day throw 40 td's and 4000 yards while leading your team to over 30 points per game?
Those are Anderson's projected numbers this season, and if he even comes close to them he is worth much more than just a high first round pick.
With Anderson, the Vikings would be Super Bowl contenders.

Marrdro
11-01-2007, 08:30 AM
Welcome to the site my friend.

Two very solid posts.

Thanks for the insight into DA.
I for one would love to see him in Purple and think that a 1rst and a 3rd is worth it.

My rationale is base on the fact that we've had two really good drafts which kindof makes up for the previous 3-5 years of poke and hope approach from the previous regime when it came to drafting.


That and that alone are why this team is so short on depth and skilled players at key posititions such as WR and QB.

Additionally, when I look out there at what might be avail for us next year to fix the QB position (without having to rely on another raw rook) then there just isn't much avail.
IMHO DA is one of the most viable options for us to pursue.

Pro's.
He would be a long term answer/solution.

He as you said, sees the field well.
He gets rid of the ball rather quickly (this suprised me).
He makes smart decisions when he throws.
He has an arm strong enough to fit the ball in if required.

Con's.
Experience.
Although he is getting much needed reps this year, I wonder how/if he will fit our scheme.
I don't see this a such a big issue though.
Picks. A first and a third are huge when you look at this team and were we are depth wise related to our inept attempts in previous years of drafting.
Again, I don't see this as to big of an issue either.

Short story long.
I like the kid and hope we go after him.
Keep TJ on and see if we can get someone that isn't drafted in after the draft as another developmental project.

Again, thanks for the insight my friend.

Purple Floyd
11-01-2007, 08:38 AM
"Cleveland" wrote:


For what it's worth:

I am a Browns' fan living in Cleveland, but I stumbled upon this site and thought I'd give an opinion about Anderson, whom I have read many of you have wondered about due to his being a restricted FA in '08.
We will have to wait until this season is over to make a final determination, but it is my opinion that Anderson is the real deal.

For one thing, he has all the intangibles you want in a QB that really cannot be taught: He sees the field well, senses pressure in the pocket (Fry was sacked six times in a quarter and a half; Anderson eight times all season), gets rid of the ball quickly, and has a gung slinger's mentality.
Other than his lack of mobility, his physical skills are there as well (that is, he has a gun_).
His decision making -- which is one talent a QB can learn -- is not entirely there yet.
Then again, I can say the same thing about Romo and Eli Manning.

Surprisingly, Cleveland still seems to prefer Quinn over Anderson in the future, which proves to me browns' fans are a bunch of idiots.
It is like Clevelanders prefer one bird in the bush to two birds in the hand (which is why Bellichick is coaching in NE right now). The only reason why you get rid of Anderson for the sake of Quinn is if you believe he can b e better than Anderson, and if Anderson continues what he is doing now Quinn being better would be pretty tough indeed.
It is my opinion that if the Vikings have a chance to get either they should do it, even if that means multiple high picks for Anderson.
That is just my opinion though.


Sounds like the second coming of Kosar

Cleveland
11-01-2007, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the welcome, fellas.


Just a couple last points and I'll let the topic rest:

Bernie never had the gun Anderson has.
He can make any throw on the field and makes it look easy.

And I don't know how he would fit in the Vikings present system, but I will say this -- he would have a field day with the safties having to play close to stop that incredibly gifted running back of yours.
With Anderson I would put my money on the Vikings reaching the Super Bowl.

I do hope the Browns lock him up long term, but if not I hope the Vikings get him.
If the Browns do sign him, a very nice consulation prize would be Quinn, whom I do believe could step into your situation and play very well (just not as good as Anderson).

Good luck to all of you sports fans in Minnesota.

soonerbornNbred
11-01-2007, 06:41 PM
Definitely a San Diego like setting there in Cleveland I really dont think they are going to let DA go...

If they DO and Minnesota doesnt do everything in there powers to grab him you really need to question the powers that be
A quality QB would do a lot for this team

Overlord
11-01-2007, 06:51 PM
If Anderson continues to play well and achieves the same success in the second half of the season that he has so far, then I think a 1st and a 3rd rounder would be worth it.

But if he continues to play well, I'm going to go ahead and predict that this guy is not available come next March.
Cleveland will lock him up.

Someone suggested that this is like the Brees/Rivers situation.
I don't think it will end up the same way because of how different the contracts are for a #4 overall guy and a #22 overall guy.
Brady Quinn's contract is large for a backup QB, but not prohibitively so.
There was also the injury to Brees, and the Chargers weren't sold on him coming back 100%.


Their best case scenario is then that Anderson continues to play well, but that Quinn gets into a few games and plays well enough to broker a Schaub type deal.
If Anderson doesn't play well, they can give Quinn a chance and cut Anderson after two years.
That's a huge cap hit but saves some cash.
Worst case scenario, Anderson and Quinn both stink after this year.
In that case they continue to be the Browns.

MNgriff
11-01-2007, 06:52 PM
"Cleveland" wrote:


Thanks for the welcome, fellas.


Just a couple last points and I'll let the topic rest:

Bernie never had the gun Anderson has.
He can make any throw on the field and makes it look easy.

And I don't know how he would fit in the Vikings present system, but I will say this -- he would have a field day with the safties having to play close to stop that incredibly gifted running back of yours.
With Anderson I would put my money on the Vikings reaching the Super Bowl.

I do hope the Browns lock him up long term, but if not I hope the Vikings get him.
If the Browns do sign him, a very nice consulation prize would be Quinn, whom I do believe could step into your situation and play very well (just not as good as Anderson).

Good luck to all of you sports fans in Minnesota.

Great stuff. Thank you for the insiders prospective. I think all of your points are right on and it would be fun.

FuadFan
11-01-2007, 08:02 PM
"Cleveland" wrote:


Thanks for the welcome, fellas.


Just a couple last points and I'll let the topic rest:

Bernie never had the gun Anderson has.
He can make any throw on the field and makes it look easy.

And I don't know how he would fit in the Vikings present system, but I will say this -- he would have a field day with the safties having to play close to stop that incredibly gifted running back of yours.
With Anderson I would put my money on the Vikings reaching the Super Bowl.

I do hope the Browns lock him up long term, but if not I hope the Vikings get him.
If the Browns do sign him, a very nice consulation prize would be Quinn, whom I do believe could step into your situation and play very well (just not as good as Anderson).

Good luck to all of you sports fans in Minnesota.


How do you feel about how he has played in regards with Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow have those guys helped elevate him or not because it is a concern to me that if torn away from the comfort zone they help provide and put with our options he may decline.

Do you think he has elevated them with his play?

Cleveland
11-01-2007, 08:20 PM
One more thing.
If Anderson does play well and the Browns do lock him up and they decide to recoup their lost first rounder by trading Quinn, here's some things to ponder:

Quinn's contract is that of a late first rounder, plus the Browns would have to swallow (at least I believe they do) on next year's cap the rest of his bonus money (which I think was about $10 mill to start with).
What this means for whomever trades for him would get him for about $4 million a season of cap space (I am just guessing here).
This is a nice savings compared to picking a QB high in the draft without a penny going to any guaranteed bonus.
Now, this is how I stumbled on this site doing research on this.
I just do not know if the Browns are capable of eating that money on next season's salary cap.
I do know, however, know they need a lot of help on the D-line and cannot see how they can do it without getting a top pick in the draft (no one allows top linemen go on the FA market).

As far as Quinn's value goes, a couple of things have changed since the draft that makes me believe Quinn's value is much higher since then.
One of them being the collapse of Notre Dame's team this season.
The reason why he dropped in the draft, at least in my opinion, was because how they got clobbered against LSU.
In hindsight it is obvious they got clobbered because they stunk and Quinn was the reason why they even appeared they had a good team.
I think teams see that now.
Secondly, the guy was unbelievably good in the preseason.
I know, that was just preseason; however, that gives a lot more info about a QB then it does rookies coming straight out of college.
None of this is proof that Quinn is going to be a good NFL QB, but I do believe if the draft were being held again right now he would be a top five pick, maybe even higher.
Perhaps Oakland would even take him top overall, although I got to say Patterson is obviously the best player.

I guess what I am trying to say is, if Cleveland were to trade Quinn this offseason instead of Anderson it may be worth it for Minnesota to trade their first rounder for him even though he slipped to 22 this past draft.
In fact, if I were Atlanta and Miami I would strongly consider it as well even if they are sitting there with the top pick.
I just do not think there is a QB in this season's draft as good as Quinn.

As far as Anderson's weapons helping him this season I say it is helping him a great deal.
Look no further than Culpepper to see what great players do for QB's.
Then look at Brady at NE.
Going into this season he had a QB rating of about 90, which is considered not even pro bowl level.
Moss goes there and it shoots up 50%.
Farve stunk the past few seasons.
The talent improves around him this season and he is enjoying a renaissance.
To answer your question though, I think any QB is held hostage to the talent around him.
The thing I like about him though is that he gets rid of the ball so quickly he makes the O-line a great deal better than they really are, which is what makes a great QB a great QB in my opinion.
I can't get over the six sacks Fry had in a quarter and a half and Anderson's 8 since then.
And he does see the field really well and he is still learning.
And a good QB should have a field day in Minnesota with their running game.
We'll see.

And I really do not think the Vikings are that far off from being a contender, so I really do not think developing another rookie Qb is the way to go.
Maybe the McNabb thing would work.
Hell, I don't.

jessejames09
11-01-2007, 08:26 PM
I'd rather have Braylon than Anderson.

The browns offense is the shit! Lol i wish we had K2 and Joe Jurevicious(Sp? lol vicious) too. Jamal Lewis is still worth a few yards inside.

ultravikingfan
11-01-2007, 09:15 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


I'd rather have Braylon than Anderson.

The browns offense is the shit! Lol i wish we had K2 and Joe Jurevicious(Sp? lol vicious) too. Jamal Lewis is still worth a few yards inside.


A few things to consider.


The combined record of teams Cleveland has beat is 6-24

The bottom 4 defenses in Points Per Game are:

29.
Rams
30.
Browns
31.
Bengals
32.
Dolphins

So, I would not crown Anderson nor would I crown their offense.
What the Browns are doing is beating the teams they should beat, something that has bit them in the ass for the past few years.


Look at Anderson when they played a quality defense:

-----------Comp--Att--Yds--Pct----Y/A--Sack--YdsL--TD--Int

vs. Pitt:----13----28---184--46.4--6.6---1-----12-----1---1---+1 fumble
vs. Oak----18----37---248--48.6--6.7---1-----24-----1---2
vs. NE------22----43---287--51.2--6.7---3-----26-----2---3

The Browns are not going to part ways with Quinn.
Anderson will be the one to go.
Lets not kid ourselves.

soonerbornNbred
11-01-2007, 10:16 PM
comparing DAs with TJs 45% completion rate 134 yrd average per game 2 TDs for the whole season
Ill take D.Andersons

Your saying he hasnt done it against good opponents, by your example hes thrown 1 more TD against the number 1 team in the league compared
to TJs 2 for the WHOLE season against lesser opponents



In those 3 games against ranked oppenents DA threw for almost twice what TJ has for the whole season


Hes #2 in the NFL of TDs thrown...#6 in passer Rating top 10 in yardage and all while not playing the first game

Heres the clincher, who are you options ....I think He will be the hottest FA out there, that being said personally I dont think the Browns will let him go

ultravikingfan
11-02-2007, 04:23 AM
"soonerbornNbred" wrote:


comparing DAs with TJs 45% completion rate 134 yrd average per game 2 TDs for the whole season
Ill take D.Andersons

Your saying he hasnt done it against good opponents, by your example hes thrown 1 more TD against the number 1 team in the league compared
to TJs 2 for the WHOLE season against lesser opponents




In those 3 games against ranked oppenents DA threw for almost twice what TJ has for the whole season


Hes #2 in the NFL of TDs thrown...#6 in passer Rating top 10 in yardage and all while not playing the first game

Heres the clincher, who are you options ....I think He will be the hottest FA out there, that being said personally I dont think the Browns will let him go


He played the first game.
Crennel yanked Frye halfway through the 2nd quarter.

And his stats came against crap teams (refer to my abpve post).

I am not comapring him to TJ, but you cannot say DA is a great QB without considering what he is doing vs good defenses and bad defenses.

???

Marrdro
11-02-2007, 09:00 AM
"Cleveland" wrote:


One more thing.
If Anderson does play well and the Browns do lock him up and they decide to recoup their lost first rounder by trading Quinn, here's some things to ponder:

Quinn's contract is that of a late first rounder, plus the Browns would have to swallow (at least I believe they do) on next year's cap the rest of his bonus money (which I think was about $10 mill to start with).
What this means for whomever trades for him would get him for about $4 million a season of cap space (I am just guessing here).
This is a nice savings compared to picking a QB high in the draft without a penny going to any guaranteed bonus.
Now, this is how I stumbled on this site doing research on this.
I just do not know if the Browns are capable of eating that money on next season's salary cap.
I do know, however, know they need a lot of help on the D-line and cannot see how they can do it without getting a top pick in the draft (no one allows top linemen go on the FA market).

As far as Quinn's value goes, a couple of things have changed since the draft that makes me believe Quinn's value is much higher since then.
One of them being the collapse of Notre Dame's team this season.
The reason why he dropped in the draft, at least in my opinion, was because how they got clobbered against LSU.
In hindsight it is obvious they got clobbered because they stunk and Quinn was the reason why they even appeared they had a good team.
I think teams see that now.
Secondly, the guy was unbelievably good in the preseason.
I know, that was just preseason; however, that gives a lot more info about a QB then it does rookies coming straight out of college.
None of this is proof that Quinn is going to be a good NFL QB, but I do believe if the draft were being held again right now he would be a top five pick, maybe even higher.
Perhaps Oakland would even take him top overall, although I got to say Patterson is obviously the best player.

I guess what I am trying to say is, if Cleveland were to trade Quinn this offseason instead of Anderson it may be worth it for Minnesota to trade their first rounder for him even though he slipped to 22 this past draft.
In fact, if I were Atlanta and Miami I would strongly consider it as well even if they are sitting there with the top pick.
I just do not think there is a QB in this season's draft as good as Quinn.

As far as Anderson's weapons helping him this season I say it is helping him a great deal.
Look no further than Culpepper to see what great players do for QB's.
Then look at Brady at NE.
Going into this season he had a QB rating of about 90, which is considered not even pro bowl level.
Moss goes there and it shoots up 50%.
Farve stunk the past few seasons.
The talent improves around him this season and he is enjoying a renaissance.
To answer your question though, I think any QB is held hostage to the talent around him.
The thing I like about him though is that he gets rid of the ball so quickly he makes the O-line a great deal better than they really are, which is what makes a great QB a great QB in my opinion.
I can't get over the six sacks Fry had in a quarter and a half and Anderson's 8 since then.
And he does see the field really well and he is still learning.
And a good QB should have a field day in Minnesota with their running game.
We'll see.

And I really do not think the Vikings are that far off from being a contender, so I really do not think developing another rookie Qb is the way to go.
Maybe the McNabb thing would work.
Hell, I don't.

Quality post my friend.

Which DL would you like with the 1rst pick.
K-will is off limits all others are avail.

MNgriff
11-02-2007, 10:25 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


I'd rather have Braylon than Anderson.

The browns offense is the pooh! Lol i wish we had K2 and Joe Jurevicious(Sp? lol vicious) too. Jamal Lewis is still worth a few yards inside.


A few things to consider.


The combined record of teams Cleveland has beat is 6-24

The bottom 4 defenses in Points Per Game are:

29.
Rams
30.
Browns
31.
Bengals
32.
Dolphins

So, I would not crown Anderson nor would I crown their offense.
What the Browns are doing is beating the teams they should beat, something that has bit them in the jiggly butt for the past few years.


Look at Anderson when they played a quality defense:

-----------Comp--Att--Yds--Pct----Y/A--Sack--YdsL--TD--Int

vs. Pitt:----13----28---184--46.4--6.6---1-----12-----1---1---+1 fumble
vs. Oak----18----37---248--48.6--6.7---1-----24-----1---2
vs. NE------22----43---287--51.2--6.7---3-----26-----2---3

The Browns are not going to part ways with Quinn.
Anderson will be the one to go.
Lets not kid ourselves.

Way to show only the stats that help you prove a point but you still leave a lot out that would disprove your point. Good defenses hold even good quarterbacks to mediocre performances, that's what they do. If you think his numbers are so poor against those three teams lets just put it all in perspective for everyone that was awed by the numbers.
Vs. Pitt---13/28 for 184yds with 1 TD and 2 turnovers......he came of the bench and played what all of a half on a game that was out of control by the time he started playing
Carson Palmer Vs Pitt---23/31 for 205ys with 1 TD and 1 turnover

Vs Oak---18/37 for 248 with 1 TD and 2 turnovers...the browns should have won but lost the game on the last second timeout call on a FG...
Jay Cutler Vs Oak----23/33 for 269 with 1TD and 2 turnovers...He still had walker around to throw it to

Vs NE---22/43 for 287 with 2 TD's and 3 Turnovers... It's NE I mean my god NE.
Carson Palmer vs NE---21/35 for 234yds with 1 TD and 2 turnovers

Looks like it's not as bad as some think it is. It's his third year in the league and he's showing a lot more then other players at the same point in their career and he started what maybe 5 games before this year?
Besides that cmooooon LOL.

Marrdro
11-02-2007, 10:47 AM
"MNgriff" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


I'd rather have Braylon than Anderson.

The browns offense is the pooh! Lol i wish we had K2 and Joe Jurevicious(Sp? lol vicious) too. Jamal Lewis is still worth a few yards inside.


A few things to consider.


The combined record of teams Cleveland has beat is 6-24

The bottom 4 defenses in Points Per Game are:

29.
Rams
30.
Browns
31.
Bengals
32.
Dolphins

So, I would not crown Anderson nor would I crown their offense.
What the Browns are doing is beating the teams they should beat, something that has bit them in the jiggly butt for the past few years.


Look at Anderson when they played a quality defense:

-----------Comp--Att--Yds--Pct----Y/A--Sack--YdsL--TD--Int

vs. Pitt:----13----28---184--46.4--6.6---1-----12-----1---1---+1 fumble
vs. Oak----18----37---248--48.6--6.7---1-----24-----1---2
vs. NE------22----43---287--51.2--6.7---3-----26-----2---3

The Browns are not going to part ways with Quinn.
Anderson will be the one to go.
Lets not kid ourselves.

Way to show only the stats that help you prove a point but you still leave a lot out that would disprove your point. Good defenses hold even good quarterbacks to mediocre performances, that's what they do. If you think his numbers are so poor against those three teams lets just put it all in perspective for everyone that was awed by the numbers.
Vs. Pitt---13/28 for 184yds with 1 TD and 2 turnovers......he came of the bench and played what all of a half on a game that was out of control by the time he started playing
Carson Palmer Vs Pitt---23/31 for 205ys with 1 TD and 1 turnover

Vs Oak---18/37 for 248 with 1 TD and 2 turnovers...the browns should have won but lost the game on the last second timeout call on a FG...
Jay Cutler Vs Oak----23/33 for 269 with 1TD and 2 turnovers...He still had walker around to throw it to

Vs NE---22/43 for 287 with 2 TD's and 3 Turnovers... It's NE I mean my god NE.
Carson Palmer vs NE---21/35 for 234yds with 1 TD and 2 turnovers

Looks like it's not as bad as some think it is. It's his third year in the league and he's showing a lot more then other players at the same point in their career and he started what maybe 5 games before this year?
Besides that cmooooon LOL.

I love it when stats are the focal point of a thread/point.
Great stuff from both of you.
;D

ultravikingfan
11-02-2007, 12:18 PM
"MNgriff" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


I'd rather have Braylon than Anderson.

The browns offense is the pooh! Lol i wish we had K2 and Joe Jurevicious(Sp? lol vicious) too. Jamal Lewis is still worth a few yards inside.


A few things to consider.


The combined record of teams Cleveland has beat is 6-24

The bottom 4 defenses in Points Per Game are:

29.
Rams
30.
Browns
31.
Bengals
32.
Dolphins

So, I would not crown Anderson nor would I crown their offense.
What the Browns are doing is beating the teams they should beat, something that has bit them in the jiggly butt for the past few years.


Look at Anderson when they played a quality defense:

-----------Comp--Att--Yds--Pct----Y/A--Sack--YdsL--TD--Int

vs. Pitt:----13----28---184--46.4--6.6---1-----12-----1---1---+1 fumble
vs. Oak----18----37---248--48.6--6.7---1-----24-----1---2
vs. NE------22----43---287--51.2--6.7---3-----26-----2---3

The Browns are not going to part ways with Quinn.
Anderson will be the one to go.
Lets not kid ourselves.

Way to show only the stats that help you prove a point but you still leave a lot out that would disprove your point. Good defenses hold even good quarterbacks to mediocre performances, that's what they do. If you think his numbers are so poor against those three teams lets just put it all in perspective for everyone that was awed by the numbers.
Vs. Pitt---13/28 for 184yds with 1 TD and 2 turnovers......he came of the bench and played what all of a half on a game that was out of control by the time he started playing
Carson Palmer Vs Pitt---23/31 for 205ys with 1 TD and 1 turnover

Vs Oak---18/37 for 248 with 1 TD and 2 turnovers...the browns should have won but lost the game on the last second timeout call on a FG...
Jay Cutler Vs Oak----23/33 for 269 with 1TD and 2 turnovers...He still had walker around to throw it to

Vs NE---22/43 for 287 with 2 TD's and 3 Turnovers... It's NE I mean my god NE.
Carson Palmer vs NE---21/35 for 234yds with 1 TD and 2 turnovers

Looks like it's not as bad as some think it is. It's his third year in the league and he's showing a lot more then other players at the same point in their career and he started what maybe 5 games before this year?
Besides that cmooooon LOL.




So, if the Browns would've made the FG vs Oakland Anderson would be golden?
He could throw 10 INT's and get a win and still do good?
Right.

Point is, against crap teams he is good.
Against formidable defenses he struggles.
Is he an upgrade from TJ?
Of course.
But I do not want a mediocre QB.
I would rather see us go after somebody more stable and promising.
Who that is, who knows.

jessejames09
11-02-2007, 12:35 PM
Braylon is the 2nd best WR in the NFL right now. Only behind Randy. He is making insane catches, and
hauling in TD's like crazy.

edit for Marrdro

+--------------------------+-------------------------+








|




Rushing



|



Receiving



|
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year
TM |
G |
Att
Yards

Y/A
TD |
Rec
Yards
Y/R
TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 2005 cle |
10 |

0


0

0.0

0 |

32

512
16.0

3 |
| 2006 cle |
16 |

3


7

2.3

0 |

61

884
14.5

6 |
| 2007 cle |
7 |

0


0

0.0

0 |

37

669
18.1

9 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
|
TOTAL
|
33 |

3


7

2.3

0 |
130
2065
15.9
18 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

jessejames09
11-02-2007, 12:40 PM
I don't really understand what everyones arguing about. The Browns offense is way ahead of ours. (period)

Cleveland
11-02-2007, 04:41 PM
How come we're not talking the Baltimore game?
Anderson was 10/18 for 204 yards, two td's and one int.
Last I heard Baltimore had a pretty good defense, and over 20 yards per completition is damn good.
Plus, in the three games mentioned against tough defenses other than the Pittsburgh game the Browns still put up almost 23 points a game, which is slightly over the league average.
The guy puts points up on the board, and i'm not talking FG's. The next three games will probably settle this anyway.
They're playing Seattle, Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

I do tend to agree that of course you do not tend to pad your stats against the Steelers of the world.
How many times do they give up a big game by a QB?
On occasion I suppose, but it is certainly rare.
And the Brady/Manning matchup is likely to feature subpar stats from at least one of them, perhaps both.
Both of these QB's fatten their stat-lines against weaker competition, and it's been happening that way since the advent of the pigskin.

Nor do I believe you can trash Anderson for the weapons he has at his disposal no more than you can rip Peyton Manning for his.
Of course it helps them, but how much it is tough to say.
Put either of them on a team like the Rams right now and both would be doing much worse than they are playing right now.
The same for Brady.

I apologize for starting a civil war up there in the Twin Cities.
Just thought you would appreciate an outsider's perspective.

C Mac D
11-02-2007, 05:08 PM
"jessejames09" wrote:


I don't really understand what everyones arguing about. The Browns offense is way ahead of ours. (period)


I've got to agree... And everyone who wants Anderson to come to Minnesota, I've got news for you... WE DON'T HAVE BRAYLON EDWARDS AND KELLEN WINSLOW!!!!!

There is no way he strolls into Minnesota and puts up the same numbers. I agree, the Browns' offense is ahead of ours... and more than just QB.

Fresno Bob
11-02-2007, 05:10 PM
It must just be interesting following a team that has a wealth of options at quarterback! I'm not familiar with that feeling on the Vikes lately...

jargomcfargo
11-02-2007, 05:25 PM
"Cleveland" wrote:


How come we're not talking the Baltimore game?
Anderson was 10/18 for 204 yards, two td's and one int.
Last I heard Baltimore had a pretty good defense, and over 20 yards per completition is gol 'darnit good.
Plus, in the three games mentioned against tough defenses other than the Pittsburgh game the Browns still put up almost 23 points a game, which is slightly over the league average.
The guy puts points up on the board, and i'm not talking FG's. The next three games will probably settle this anyway.
They're playing Seattle, Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

I do tend to agree that of course you do not tend to pad your stats against the Steelers of the world.
How many times do they give up a big game by a QB?
On occasion I suppose, but it is certainly rare.

And the Brady/Manning matchup is likely to feature subpar stats from at least one of them, perhaps both.
Both of these QB's fatten their stat-lines against weaker competition, and it's been happening that way since the advent of the pigskin.

Nor do I believe you can trash Anderson for the weapons he has at his disposal no more than you can rip Peyton Manning for his.
Of course it helps them, but how much it is tough to say.
Put either of them on a team like the Rams right now and both would be doing much worse than they are playing right now.
The same for Brady.

I apologize for starting a civil war up there in the Twin Cities.
Just thought you would appreciate an outsider's perspective.




Definately apprweciate your perspective. Hope you come around here from time to time. Quality posts.

I don't think Anderson will be available to us. But it is a nice fantasy for qb starved Vikings fans. Well some of us.

I've always felt Anderson had the potential to be a pretty decent NFL qb. I think he will be.

Quinn is a bit more of a gamble at this point. Cleveland will have a pretty tough decision at some point, if Anderson continues to play well and stay healthy.

C Mac D
11-02-2007, 05:31 PM
"jargomcfargo" wrote:


"Cleveland" wrote:


How come we're not talking the Baltimore game?
Anderson was 10/18 for 204 yards, two td's and one int.
Last I heard Baltimore had a pretty good defense, and over 20 yards per completition is gol 'darnit good.
Plus, in the three games mentioned against tough defenses other than the Pittsburgh game the Browns still put up almost 23 points a game, which is slightly over the league average.
The guy puts points up on the board, and i'm not talking FG's. The next three games will probably settle this anyway.
They're playing Seattle, Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

I do tend to agree that of course you do not tend to pad your stats against the Steelers of the world.
How many times do they give up a big game by a QB?
On occasion I suppose, but it is certainly rare.
And the Brady/Manning matchup is likely to feature subpar stats from at least one of them, perhaps both.
Both of these QB's fatten their stat-lines against weaker competition, and it's been happening that way since the advent of the pigskin.

Nor do I believe you can trash Anderson for the weapons he has at his disposal no more than you can rip Peyton Manning for his.
Of course it helps them, but how much it is tough to say.
Put either of them on a team like the Rams right now and both would be doing much worse than they are playing right now.
The same for Brady.

I apologize for starting a civil war up there in the Twin Cities.
Just thought you would appreciate an outsider's perspective.




Definately apprweciate your perspective. Hope you come around here from time to time. Quality posts.

I don't think Anderson will be available to us. But it is a nice fantasy for qb starved Vikings fans. Well some of us.

I've always felt Anderson had the potential to be a pretty decent NFL qb. I think he will be.

Quinn is a bit more of a gamble at this point. Cleveland will have a pretty tough decision at some point, if Anderson continues to play well and stay healthy.


I agree... stop by more often, nice post.

I went to college out in Cleveland and was constantly surrounded by Browns fans. I will always have a soft spot for the Browns... I feel like they are the battered puppy of the NFL... but they would kill the Vikings if they played them this year.

Here's a thought, the Browns don't have a first round pick this year because they traded it for Quinn... (not saying I want this) What are people's thoughts about trading a first... or a Second round coupled with a player... for Brady Quinn?

I think the Browns are going to stick with Anderson. He is putting up some great numbers in a city who hasn't had much success at the QB position in YEARS.

Frostbite
11-02-2007, 05:35 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"MNgriff" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"jessejames09" wrote:


I'd rather have Braylon than Anderson.

The browns offense is the pooh! Lol i wish we had K2 and Joe Jurevicious(Sp? lol vicious) too. Jamal Lewis is still worth a few yards inside.


A few things to consider.


The combined record of teams Cleveland has beat is 6-24

The bottom 4 defenses in Points Per Game are:

29.
Rams
30.
Browns
31.
Bengals
32.
Dolphins

So, I would not crown Anderson nor would I crown their offense.
What the Browns are doing is beating the teams they should beat, something that has bit them in the jiggly butt for the past few years.


Look at Anderson when they played a quality defense:

-----------Comp--Att--Yds--Pct----Y/A--Sack--YdsL--TD--Int

vs. Pitt:----13----28---184--46.4--6.6---1-----12-----1---1---+1 fumble
vs. Oak----18----37---248--48.6--6.7---1-----24-----1---2
vs. NE------22----43---287--51.2--6.7---3-----26-----2---3

The Browns are not going to part ways with Quinn.
Anderson will be the one to go.
Lets not kid ourselves.

Way to show only the stats that help you prove a point but you still leave a lot out that would disprove your point. Good defenses hold even good quarterbacks to mediocre performances, that's what they do. If you think his numbers are so poor against those three teams lets just put it all in perspective for everyone that was awed by the numbers.
Vs. Pitt---13/28 for 184yds with 1 TD and 2 turnovers......he came of the bench and played what all of a half on a game that was out of control by the time he started playing
Carson Palmer Vs Pitt---23/31 for 205ys with 1 TD and 1 turnover

Vs Oak---18/37 for 248 with 1 TD and 2 turnovers...the browns should have won but lost the game on the last second timeout call on a FG...
Jay Cutler Vs Oak----23/33 for 269 with 1TD and 2 turnovers...He still had walker around to throw it to

Vs NE---22/43 for 287 with 2 TD's and 3 Turnovers... It's NE I mean my god NE.
Carson Palmer vs NE---21/35 for 234yds with 1 TD and 2 turnovers

Looks like it's not as bad as some think it is. It's his third year in the league and he's showing a lot more then other players at the same point in their career and he started what maybe 5 games before this year?
Besides that cmooooon LOL.




So, if the Browns would've made the FG vs Oakland Anderson would be golden?
He could throw 10 INT's and get a win and still do good?
Right.

Point is, against crap teams he is good.
Against formidable defenses he struggles.
Is he an upgrade from TJ?
Of course.
But I do not want a mediocre QB.
I would rather see us go after somebody more stable and promising.
Who that is, who knows.







I totally agree. Why is it we have a tendancy to think we only can get mediocre tallent in the off season?? Why not go after somebody really worthwhile if they become available??
The QB spot is probably the most Important position with regard to needed tallent that we have right now. If we are gonna give T.Jack the boot then let's go after a TOP NOTCH SKILL Player.

Yes....we will have to give a lot for it......SO WHAT?
Anderson - T.Jack = 0..... and Nothing from nothing is still 0


Cheers!

Cleveland
11-02-2007, 05:44 PM
"Fresno" wrote:


It must just be interesting following a team that has a wealth of options at quarterback! I'm not familiar with that feeling on the Vikes lately...




Oh, it is interesting.
It's much more enjoyable to have an excellent offense and bad defense then vice-versa.

Hey, I got a question for you "flash in the pan" people -- whatcha think of Romo?
Stats nearly identical.
Both have various weapons (Dallas probably has more).
Both given the job after the starters struggled to get team into end zone, since then both teams are offensive juggernauts.
In fact, last season Romo was terrific against weaker opponents but blew against even average defenses (look it up).
This season, his stats have evened out more from game to game.
Then again, he is three years older than Anderson (who is 24), so maybe that should be expected.
Would you like to have Romo now?
I bet you would, but what in the world is the difference between he and Anderson I want to know?
Ok, Romo's older.
He has hot chicks hanging all over him.
He even play's for the 'Boys.
So what?
What Romo and Anderson have in common is that they put TD's on the board fast.
I mean, real fast.
That, my northern friends, is the most important thing to look for in any QB.

You know what I think?
There is a bias against QB's who aren't top draft picks.
If this were say Eli Manning (who is 26, with four times the career starts of Anderson, and who has a QB rating of under 80, compared to 95 for Anderson) who was putting up these numbers you would be giggling like school girls if you had a chance to get him for a first round pick.
Now that I think about it, you'd probably still be giggling if you had a chance to get Eli now even though his numbers are barely better than what you have now. Come on, now, admit it.
But since Anderson was only a sixth round pick he is considered average if that.
Then again you were probably saying the same thing about Romo (FA) and Brady (6th round) too, weren't you?
I bet you would love to have them now though.

MNgriff
11-02-2007, 05:55 PM
^^^Great points! That's why I think it would be nice to have him as well because I see those connections as well. Will the front office see that for the price is the major question. Oh and we've been arguing about all of this nonstop so you didn't start anything just gave us a new perspective. Great stuff.

Frostbite
11-02-2007, 05:58 PM
This is a good post cleveland but you are not comparing Apples to Oranges in one regard. That is where I think some bias may come into the picture, and that is he's not a starter. Romo is a starter and so he's visable...in the lime light so to speak. Anderson will continue to be looked at as a backup (Right or Wrong) because he isn't a starter.

I think you are correct that there are bias issues with regard to not being top round picks too....but in a lesser degree because we have all seen players drafter in later rounds go on to be top performers. I see less prejudice thinking in that area overall.

My question is this. Do you bring Anderson to Minnesota giving up a first round pick and whatever to start him here?? Or do you wait and see if another TOP already established Starter QB comes available and make that move instead even knowing that will cost you a lot more??

Hmm...Something to consider I think....on both sides of the debate.


Cheers!

ultravikingfan
11-02-2007, 06:11 PM
Anderson is worth a second round pick at best.
I talked with a half dozen Browns fans today at work and they could give 2 craps less about DA; they want Quinn in there now.

C Mac D
11-02-2007, 06:17 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Anderson is worth a second round pick at best.
I talked with a half dozen Browns fans today at work and they could give 2 craps less about DA; they want Quinn in there now.


Not the Browns fans I know. They're loving the Anderson show.

Cleveland
11-02-2007, 06:20 PM
"Frostbite" wrote:


This is a good post cleveland but you are not comparing Apples to Oranges in one regard. That is where I think some bias may come into the picture, and that is he's not a starter. Romo is a starter and so he's visable...in the lime light so to speak. Anderson will continue to be looked at as a backup (Right or Wrong) because he isn't a starter.

I think you are correct that there are bias issues with regard to not being top round picks too....but in a lesser degree because we have all seen players drafter in later rounds go on to be top performers. I see less prejudice thinking in that area overall.

My question is this. Do you bring Anderson to Minnesota giving up a first round pick and whatever to start him here?? Or do you wait and see if another TOP already established Starter QB comes available and make that move instead even knowing that will cost you a lot more??

Hmm...Something to consider I think....on both sides of the debate.


Cheers!


I'm confused.
Anderson is starting.
Or you just saying he hasn't started as many games as Romo so you
don't consider him a starter?

I really don't have a bias, I just like Anderson a lot, just like I like Romo.
Those two have "it".
I hate to keep repeating this, but they know how to get the ball in the end zone.

You may not believe me about the Cleveland bias, but I certainly do not have a Minnesota bias, so my opinions about the Vikings are as objective as they can be.
Your team is a QB away from serious contention, so your choices are thus:
getting an older veteran such as McNabb, who may give you a McNair like bounce for a season, but chances are you will be right back to where you were after that.
Plus, he would likely cost you a second rounder to get if they were willing to deal him.
Or you could get a Garcia type and hope you get lucky, which may or may not be the way to go.
Or you could draft a qb high, but you would have to wait for him.
Or you could draft a qb later and pick up a veteran to start until the rookie is ready (this, by the way, rarely works.
For some reason, qb's picked in the second through fourth rounds rarely pans out, other than an occasional Favre.
Look who you got out there now?).
Or you could bite the bullet and get a young guy who could not only help you next season but for a decade to come via trade.
I think the only viable options out there of this I can think of are Anderson or Quinn, depending on what the Browns do.
I came on to this site only to recommend that the Vikings jump all over Anderson IF the Browns were stupid enough to let him walk or trade him.
Only time will tell if I am right about Anderson, but with the Indians massive choke job I needed to submerse myself in something to forget the pain.

About the
Browns fans who don't give a crap about Anderson?
Just proves my point -- Browns fans are idiots.
Anderson could have the best season ever for a Browns' qb with 4000 yards passing
and 40 td's.
Still, they'll let him walk and give the job to a rookie.

Frostbite
11-02-2007, 06:31 PM
I ment that I think most fans around the League see Quinn as the Starter and Anderson as the Backup. (Right or Wrong) That is where some of the bias....if any....Is coming into play.



Cheers!

Vikingryche
11-02-2007, 07:27 PM
Put this way!!
Would I rather send my first round pick to Cleveland for Anderson, who has thrown a pass in the NFL with some success.
Or would i use it on lets say Matt Ryan, or Brian Brohm, who havent thrown one pas in the NFL.
That is a no brainer I would take Anderson in a heartbeat!!
What would our record be right now with him as our QB, we wouldnt be 2-5..
I was very hopeful of T-Jack, but he does not have it nor do i think he ever will.
He looks like he doesnt even know what is going on in the few games i have got to see. He does not get rid of ball, holds it way too long..(this is the WCO. get rid of ball quickly) He may have all the physical tools to be good, but i dont believe he has the mental tools, which are the most important!!
We just need a QB and we would be 5-2 not 2-5.

ultravikingfan
11-02-2007, 07:55 PM
"C" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Anderson is worth a second round pick at best.
I talked with a half dozen Browns fans today at work and they could give 2 craps less about DA; they want Quinn in there now.


Not the Browns fans I know. They're loving the Anderson show.


Ok.
I work with and live amongst them.

PackSux!
11-02-2007, 08:35 PM
"Cleveland" wrote:


"Frostbite" wrote:


This is a good post cleveland but you are not comparing Apples to Oranges in one regard. That is where I think some bias may come into the picture, and that is he's not a starter. Romo is a starter and so he's visable...in the lime light so to speak. Anderson will continue to be looked at as a backup (Right or Wrong) because he isn't a starter.

I think you are correct that there are bias issues with regard to not being top round picks too....but in a lesser degree because we have all seen players drafter in later rounds go on to be top performers. I see less prejudice thinking in that area overall.

My question is this. Do you bring Anderson to Minnesota giving up a first round pick and whatever to start him here?? Or do you wait and see if another TOP already established Starter QB comes available and make that move instead even knowing that will cost you a lot more??

Hmm...Something to consider I think....on both sides of the debate.


Cheers!


I'm confused.
Anderson is starting.
Or you just saying he hasn't started as many games as Romo so you
don't consider him a starter?

I really don't have a bias, I just like Anderson a lot, just like I like Romo.
Those two have "it".
I hate to keep repeating this, but they know how to get the ball in the end zone.

You may not believe me about the Cleveland bias, but I certainly do not have a Minnesota bias, so my opinions about the Vikings are as objective as they can be.
Your team is a QB away from serious contention, so your choices are thus:
getting an older veteran such as McNabb, who may give you a McNair like bounce for a season, but chances are you will be right back to where you were after that.
Plus, he would likely cost you a second rounder to get if they were willing to deal him.
Or you could get a Garcia type and hope you get lucky, which may or may not be the way to go.
Or you could draft a qb high, but you would have to wait for him.
Or you could draft a qb later and pick up a veteran to start until the rookie is ready (this, by the way, rarely works.
For some reason, qb's picked in the second through fourth rounds rarely pans out, other than an occasional Favre.
Look who you got out there now?).
Or you could bite the bullet and get a young guy who could not only help you next season but for a decade to come via trade.
I think the only viable options out there of this I can think of are Anderson or Quinn, depending on what the Browns do.
I came on to this site only to recommend that the Vikings jump all over Anderson IF the Browns were stupid enough to let him walk or trade him.
Only time will tell if I am right about Anderson, but with the Indians massive choke job I needed to submerse myself in something to forget the pain.

About the
Browns fans who don't give a crap about Anderson?
Just proves my point -- Browns fans are idiots.
Anderson could have the best season ever for a Browns' qb with 4000 yards passing
and 40 td's.
Still, they'll let him walk and give the job to a rookie.



It dont matter what round your quarterback is choosen in.
What it comes down to is coaching and how well that player can adapt to the next level and the pace of the game.