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ultravikingfan
10-28-2007, 04:17 PM
[]

BadlandsVikings
10-28-2007, 04:21 PM
[]

COJOMAY
10-28-2007, 04:26 PM
[]

RK.
10-28-2007, 04:54 PM
[]

El Vikingo
10-28-2007, 04:57 PM
[]

Vikestand
10-28-2007, 05:02 PM
[]

CCthebest
10-28-2007, 05:02 PM
[]

baumy300
10-28-2007, 05:04 PM
[]

battleaxe4cheese
10-28-2007, 05:06 PM
[]

Frostbite
10-28-2007, 05:12 PM
[]

Eyedea
10-28-2007, 05:16 PM
[]

V-Unit
10-28-2007, 05:29 PM
[]

Eyedea
10-28-2007, 05:39 PM
[]

NordicNed
10-28-2007, 05:47 PM
[]

Purplemania
10-28-2007, 06:05 PM
[]

ultravikingfan
10-28-2007, 06:06 PM
[]

MaxVike
10-28-2007, 06:15 PM
[]

Purplemania
10-28-2007, 06:17 PM
[]

Marrdro
10-28-2007, 06:17 PM
[]

PurplePeopleEaters
10-28-2007, 06:20 PM
[]

ultravikingfan
10-28-2007, 06:22 PM
[]

Purplemania
10-28-2007, 06:25 PM
[]

jessejames09
10-28-2007, 06:31 PM
[]

tke0933
10-28-2007, 06:41 PM
[]

Purplemania
10-28-2007, 06:41 PM
[]

ultravikingfan
10-28-2007, 06:43 PM
[]

jargomcfargo
10-28-2007, 06:47 PM
[]

bono
10-28-2007, 06:50 PM
[]

ultravikingfan
10-28-2007, 06:52 PM
[]

Webby
10-28-2007, 06:52 PM
[]

bono
10-28-2007, 06:55 PM
[]

El Vikingo
10-28-2007, 07:02 PM
[]

Purple Floyd
10-28-2007, 07:16 PM
[]

jargomcfargo
10-28-2007, 07:16 PM
[]

arrested_developer
10-28-2007, 07:37 PM
[]

MaxVike
10-28-2007, 08:14 PM
[]

BadlandsVikings
10-28-2007, 08:15 PM
[]

tb04512
10-28-2007, 08:35 PM
[]

NordicNed
10-28-2007, 08:40 PM
[]

sleepagent
10-28-2007, 09:08 PM
[]

Marrdro
10-28-2007, 09:22 PM
[]

Marrdro
10-28-2007, 09:26 PM
"sleepagent" wrote:


and now I get to go into work tomorrow and face a crowd of Eagle's Fans!

THANKS VIKES . . . you made me proud to be a fan.

:'(


You only have to worry about that when we play the Eagles?
I have all kinds of Vikes stuff hanging in my cube and a fathead on my tailgate and a flag that flies in front of my house, all of which are displayed year round.

Everyone, I mean everyone that even has the faintest idea about football rags on me steady for the last 2 years.
I got calls from guys all the way out in HI today (they were on travel so I thought I was safe
;D).

Kindof gets mind numbing at times.
;D

SKOL VIKES.

minnesota
10-28-2007, 09:30 PM
"tb04512" wrote:


can someone tell me why Ryan cook is playing?? he got handled today.... marcus johnson came in for a few plays and HANDLED kearse.. then what happens the big idiot known as cook gets to go back in allowing our qb to get sacked AGAIN...

this team lacks heart


Cook should bench himself if our coaches don't know how.

PurplePowerPunch
10-28-2007, 09:31 PM
We are a very bad football team. Defense and Offense both suck!!! This team has clearly quit playing for Brad Childress, period. :(

ultravikingfan
10-28-2007, 09:37 PM
"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


We are a very bad football team. Defense and Offense both suck!!! This team has clearly quit playing for Brad Childress, period. :(


Very well thought out.
Great clarity and overflowing with content.

huxx
10-28-2007, 09:39 PM
Who is watching upstairs to tell Chilly to challenge these plays???
Every week we seem to blow our timeouts.

Right side of the line got owned.

Aside from the kickoff, AP did as good as he could have (esp. considering the OLine play)

Other than the AP runs, we haven't had a big play all year...I don't even get upset anymore.
After the first drive of most games, we cave...and we have to sit and take it.
I always thought it would suck to be a Browns fan...now I actually envy them.
Oh God,
please help!

PurplePowerPunch
10-28-2007, 09:40 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


We are a very bad football team. Defense and Offense both suck!!! This team has clearly quit playing for Brad Childress, period. :(


Very well thought out.
Great clarity and overflowing with content.


Not right now Ultra

ThorSPL
10-28-2007, 09:44 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"sleepagent" wrote:


and now I get to go into work tomorrow and face a crowd of Eagle's Fans!

THANKS VIKES . . . you made me proud to be a fan.
:'(


You only have to worry about that when we play the Eagles?
I have all kinds of Vikes stuff hanging in my cube and a fathead on my tailgate and a flag that flies in front of my house, all of which are displayed year round.

Everyone, I mean everyone that even has the faintest idea about football rags on me steady for the last 2 years.
I got calls from guys all the way out in HI today (they were on travel so I thought I was safe
;D).

Kindof gets mind numbing at times.
;D

SKOL VIKES.


At least you found my ass and handed it to me in fantasy football today.

IketheVike62
10-28-2007, 09:45 PM
The Vikes are just a QB and some clutch receivers away from being a very good team.
AD and Taylor are going to face 8 or 9 in the box from now on.
Every defense from now on will just flat out dare us to throw....

tb04512
10-28-2007, 09:49 PM
"IketheVike62" wrote:


The Vikes are just a QB and some clutch receivers away from being a very good team.
AD and Taylor are going to face 8 or 9 in the box from now on.
Every defense from now on will just flat out dare us to throw....


welcome to the site go introduce yourself in the free beer forum


and 8 or 9 in the box is what we already see, nothing will change, unless they put 10 in there
:P

VikingsMB
10-28-2007, 09:52 PM
"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"PurplePowerPunch" wrote:


We are a very bad football team. Defense and Offense both suck!!! This team has clearly quit playing for Brad Childress, period. :(


Very well thought out.
Great clarity and overflowing with content.


Not right now Ultra


Offense...Brooks did a helluva job there today.
That is a great backup QB.
Moves the chains through the air, gives the
ball to AP, throws it away when the junior receivers are still running 70 yard routes as QB is scrambling to avoid a sack.
Wade, Rice, even overpriced Shianco showed that they can do some things given the chance.

Holcombe, release him this week and bring in a long term veteran mentor QB.

Still can't figure out what Ferguson is doing.
Also wondering if Twill has had eye regression that they have sentenced him to return guy (Maybe a sign that this is his last year as a Viking?)

Defense...Griffen is starting to get taken to the cleaners on a weekly basis.
Another 300+ yards through the air?
Les Frazier, come on.
You had all season to look at the game tapes from last year...ADJUST SOMETHING?
It's not like its a big surprise that teams are coming in with an almost exclusive air attack preparation.
You would think you have the easiest job in the NFL to adjust your other 9 guys away from the Williams brothers to take away the 5 -8 yards that the teams are chewing up on a regular basis.

Winfield...player of the game.
Childress, the achilles heal of this team.
Too bad.

housekatt23
10-28-2007, 09:55 PM
Playcallling is a joke but hey its been that way for a while..Chilly ever heard of a screen pass? quick slant, deep bomb?
Being from Columbus Jim Tressel's conservative offense is much more dynamic then this offense.
It's a good thing they got rid of that trouble maker WR moss and replaced him with good guy Troy Williamson.
We need to find a legit #1 WR who wants to come here and play...

Marrdro
10-28-2007, 09:59 PM
"ThorSPL" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"sleepagent" wrote:


and now I get to go into work tomorrow and face a crowd of Eagle's Fans!

THANKS VIKES . . . you made me proud to be a fan.

:'(


You only have to worry about that when we play the Eagles?
I have all kinds of Vikes stuff hanging in my cube and a fathead on my tailgate and a flag that flies in front of my house, all of which are displayed year round.

Everyone, I mean everyone that even has the faintest idea about football rags on me steady for the last 2 years.
I got calls from guys all the way out in HI today (they were on travel so I thought I was safe
;D).

Kindof gets mind numbing at times.

;D

SKOL VIKES.


At least you found my jiggly butt and handed it to me in fantasy football today.

I went 3 for 4 this week.
;D

Picked up EJ in the one league were we play individual defensive players.
He got me 9 points.

6-KINGS
10-28-2007, 10:04 PM
Time to cut all but 10 players on O, keep the punter and just punt the ball right back.
All is LOST!!!

singersp
10-28-2007, 10:24 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Man, are we bad or what?
Not only is our Offense bad, but our Defense as well.

We had all the momentum to start this game.
We score and then recover the onside
kick; only to allow the Eagles to score 17 unanswered points.
It's a huge downer
when we pin them back deep only to watch them march the length of the field.

However, their was hope once Brooks (the new Purple Jesus) entered the game.

I guess I was not expecting us to come out and light the world on fire.
But I thought we could get a win at least.
It's not like Philly is a dominating team anymore, although McNabb is still a worthy opponent.

First Half:

-Pass blocking was horrible.
McKinnie cannot block squat.
Holcomb pressured on
almost dang pass.

-Holcomb....yuck!
I do not think TJ would've done any better, but Holcomb struggles.
At least he did not turn over the ball...luckily.

-We score because we run AD.
The 1st drive we have 11 plays and 6 were AD runs.
We
need to keep the run offense going.
After that drive the Eagles run D did stiffen.

-Stupid penalties will kill a drive any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

-3rd down efficiency 2-6.
That's not going to put points on the board.

-We give-up 252 yards on Defense.
McNabb has all day to go through his progressions
and hit an open man.
Where is the pressure?
And where the hell is Udeze going
on his pass rush?
Man does he go wide.
An Offensive line man will give you
that all day.
WTF?


Second Half:

-Way to go AD?
What the hell are you thinking?
And we waste a timeout. So we start
out on the 1 millimeter line and go nowhere.

-Our tackling is atrocious.
Unless with pull him down by the facemask.

-Philawarepragueicago is a cool place.

-Kleinsasser, nice blocking their buddy.
No effort what-so-ever!

-The Eagles where running left, off-tackle ok today.
They would try a few
up the gut to keep us honest.

-Mid 3rd, we finally get a sack by Leber...about damn time.
And then Udeze.
Our
pressure finally starts to improve by the end of the 3rd.

-Brooks comes in and we have new life.
He looks really fresh.
We mix-up the run
and pass and throw in some play action.
I have to say Philly did a good job of
keeping AD from breaking one open.
So close.
He does not fuck around in a collapsing
pocket.
He steps-up and runs.
Great playaction too

-Although we settled for a FG, I liked the 1st drive by Brooks.
He did get a little
excited when he tossed into the 10th row.
LOL!

-Bad call for holding on Shiancoe.
Bullshit call.

-The Eagles make 2 spectacular catches.
That's what happens in man coverage.
Griffin played Curtis good, he just make a slick catch.

-So close to breaking one!



Ultra's Salutes: http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/093.gif

Leber, Udeze sacks.
Kluwe - Our MVP.
Brooks - Had something to prove.
Like his energy.
He steps up in the pocket and moves
well back there.

AD - 3rd quarter he really wanted to get something going.

Wade - too bad he had to get injured
Longwell - when called on he did his job.
Brad's chart - wish he could keep the team that organized.

Ultra's Scorn:
http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/052.gif

O-line
Pass Defense
Defense - on 3rd down
AD - on the kickoff in the 2nd half
Kleinsasser - way to block, two sacks over you!
Crowd
Announcers - I usually like Stockton, but he sucked today.
Coaching staff (they fail as a unit)
Cameraman - PLEASE FOLLOW THE PLAY.
That's what you are paid to do.
Mckinnie - http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/obscene/022.gif
Third Down Efficiency


For next week:
Start #9!!!
http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/034.gif



I got to agree with most everything you said here.

As much hate & talk as there has been about Bollinger on this forum, he came out & played quite well IMO. He started out with 3 completions in a row & moved the team when Holcombe couldn't. When's the last time any of us saw any Vikings QB throw 3 comletions in a row? I believe it was Thigpen in preseason.

As to the one he sailed into the stands & out of the endzone on a latter series, IMO, it looked pretty clear to me he was doing nothing more than throwing that ball away. The one thing you get to see at the game sitting in the upper level, is everyone at once, how the plays develope & where the WR are. No one appeared to be open, so he smartly threw it away as the pocket was begining to collapse around him.

I actually started believing he could come in & win this one for us. He gave me hope. Then the O-Line let me down. He never had a chance on most of those sacks.

Glad you mentioned AD. I don't care how good he is, he still made a bone head play. Someone in another thread stated Childress was at fault because "he didn't tell AD to make sure that they should first step out of bounds, and THEN catch the ball. That way the Vikes get it on the 40. But Adrian Peterson had to learn that from the ref, and only after the mistake happened."

I say bullshit. There is no way anyone is going to get me to believe that a kick returner doesn't know if he catches or touches the ball in bounds & then steps out that they get it at that spot, not the 40.

Secondly, I'll bet if that was T-Will back there who made that mistake, there would have been multiple threads going, stating we should bench or cut his ass.

Udeze. Yes he did go outside a lot, but he was still getting more pressure on the QB when our other DE wasn't.

Udeze leads the Vikings with 4 sacks (Robison has 3-1/2) & has caused two fumbles. There were many here this past offseason who thought he was worthless & should have been cut, even though he was playing out of position last year.

Not a one of them have come back to eat crow.

As far as the crowd, I don't know what your beef was with them.
:-\

VikingsMB
10-28-2007, 10:33 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Man, are we bad or what?
Not only is our Offense bad, but our Defense as well.

We had all the momentum to start this game.
We score and then recover the onside
kick; only to allow the Eagles to score 17 unanswered points.
It's a huge downer
when we pin them back deep only to watch them march the length of the field.

However, their was hope once Brooks (the new Purple Jesus) entered the game.

I guess I was not expecting us to come out and light the world on fire.
But I thought we could get a win at least.
It's not like Philly is a dominating team anymore, although McNabb is still a worthy opponent.

First Half:

-Pass blocking was horrible.
McKinnie cannot block squat.
Holcomb pressured on
almost dang pass.

-Holcomb....yuck!
I do not think TJ would've done any better, but Holcomb struggles.
At least he did not turn over the ball...luckily.

-We score because we run AD.
The 1st drive we have 11 plays and 6 were AD runs.
We
need to keep the run offense going.
After that drive the Eagles run D did stiffen.

-Stupid penalties will kill a drive any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

-3rd down efficiency 2-6.
That's not going to put points on the board.

-We give-up 252 yards on Defense.
McNabb has all day to go through his progressions
and hit an open man.
Where is the pressure?
And where the hell is Udeze going
on his pass rush?
Man does he go wide.
An Offensive line man will give you
that all day.
WTF?


Second Half:

-Way to go AD?
What the hell are you thinking?
And we waste a timeout. So we start
out on the 1 millimeter line and go nowhere.

-Our tackling is atrocious.
Unless with pull him down by the facemask.

-Philawarepragueicago is a cool place.

-Kleinsasser, nice blocking their buddy.
No effort what-so-ever!

-The Eagles where running left, off-tackle ok today.
They would try a few
up the gut to keep us honest.

-Mid 3rd, we finally get a sack by Leber...about gol 'darnit time.
And then Udeze.
Our
pressure finally starts to improve by the end of the 3rd.

-Brooks comes in and we have new life.
He looks really fresh.
We mix-up the run
and pass and throw in some play action.
I have to say Philly did a good job of
keeping AD from breaking one open.
So close.
He does not floop around in a collapsing
pocket.
He steps-up and runs.
Great playaction too

-Although we settled for a FG, I liked the 1st drive by Brooks.
He did get a little
excited when he tossed into the 10th row.
LOL!

-Bad call for holding on Shiancoe.
kaka del rio call.

-The Eagles make 2 spectacular catches.
That's what happens in man coverage.
Griffin played Curtis good, he just make a slick catch.

-So close to breaking one!



Ultra's Salutes: http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/093.gif

Leber, Udeze sacks.
Kluwe - Our MVP.
Brooks - Had something to prove.
Like his energy.
He steps up in the pocket and moves
well back there.

AD - 3rd quarter he really wanted to get something going.

Wade - too bad he had to get injured
Longwell - when called on he did his job.
Brad's chart - wish he could keep the team that organized.

Ultra's Scorn:
http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/052.gif

O-line
Pass Defense
Defense - on 3rd down
AD - on the kickoff in the 2nd half
Kleinsasser - way to block, two sacks over you!
Crowd
Announcers - I usually like Stockton, but he sucked today.
Coaching staff (they fail as a unit)
Cameraman - PLEASE FOLLOW THE PLAY.
That's what you are paid to do.
Mckinnie - http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/obscene/022.gif
Third Down Efficiency


For next week:
Start #9!!!
http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/034.gif



I got to agree with most everything you said here.

As much hate & talk as there has been about Bollinger on this forum, he came out & played quite well IMO. He started out with 3 completions in a row & moved the team when Holcombe couldn't. When's the last time any of us saw any Vikings QB throw 3 comletions in a row? I believe it was Thigpen in preseason.

As to the one he sailed into the stands & out of the endzone on a latter series, IMO, it looked pretty clear to me he was doing nothing more than throwing that ball away. The one thing you get to see at the game sitting in the upper level, is everyone at once, how the plays develope & where the WR are. No one appeared to be open, so he smartly threw it away as the pocket was begining to collapse around him.

I actually started believing he could come in & win this one for us. He gave me hope. Then the O-Line let me down. He never had a chance on most of those sacks.

Glad you mentioned AD. I don't care how good he is, he still made a bone head play. Someone in another thread stated Childress was at fault because "he didn't tell AD to make sure that they should first step out of bounds, and THEN catch the ball. That way the Vikes get it on the 40. But Adrian Peterson had to learn that from the ref, and only after the mistake happened."

I say kaka del rio. There is no way anyone is going to get me to believe that a kick returner doesn't know if he catches or touches the ball in bounds & then steps out that they get it at that spot, not the 40.

Secondly, I'll bet if that was T-Will back there who made that mistake, there would have been multiple threads going, stating we should bench or cut his jiggly butt.

Udeze. Yes he did go outside a lot, but he was still getting more pressure on the QB when our other DE wasn't.

Udeze leads the Vikings with 4 sacks (Robison has 3-1/2) & has caused two fumbles. There were many here this past offseason who thought he was worthless & should have been cut, even though he was playing out of position last year.

Not a one of them have come back to eat crow.

As far as the crowd, I don't know what your beef was with them.
:-\


Also salute the Eagle who put Holcombe out of his 0-3 misery.
Pink slip him tomorrow.

Scorn, the anouncer who brought to the attention of everyone in Vikesland that Ryan Cook was in there
and then follows it up with "sacks Bollinger for a 9 yard loss virtually untouched."

COJOMAY
10-28-2007, 10:39 PM
"VikingsMB" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Man, are we bad or what?
Not only is our Offense bad, but our Defense as well.

We had all the momentum to start this game.
We score and then recover the onside
kick; only to allow the Eagles to score 17 unanswered points.
It's a huge downer
when we pin them back deep only to watch them march the length of the field.

However, their was hope once Brooks (the new Purple Jesus) entered the game.

I guess I was not expecting us to come out and light the world on fire.
But I thought we could get a win at least.
It's not like Philly is a dominating team anymore, although McNabb is still a worthy opponent.

First Half:

-Pass blocking was horrible.
McKinnie cannot block squat.
Holcomb pressured on
almost dang pass.

-Holcomb....yuck!
I do not think TJ would've done any better, but Holcomb struggles.
At least he did not turn over the ball...luckily.

-We score because we run AD.
The 1st drive we have 11 plays and 6 were AD runs.
We
need to keep the run offense going.
After that drive the Eagles run D did stiffen.

-Stupid penalties will kill a drive any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

-3rd down efficiency 2-6.
That's not going to put points on the board.

-We give-up 252 yards on Defense.
McNabb has all day to go through his progressions
and hit an open man.
Where is the pressure?
And where the hell is Udeze going
on his pass rush?
Man does he go wide.
An Offensive line man will give you
that all day.
WTF?


Second Half:

-Way to go AD?
What the hell are you thinking?
And we waste a timeout. So we start
out on the 1 millimeter line and go nowhere.

-Our tackling is atrocious.
Unless with pull him down by the facemask.

-Philawarepragueicago is a cool place.

-Kleinsasser, nice blocking their buddy.
No effort what-so-ever!

-The Eagles where running left, off-tackle ok today.
They would try a few
up the gut to keep us honest.

-Mid 3rd, we finally get a sack by Leber...about gol 'darnit time.
And then Udeze.
Our
pressure finally starts to improve by the end of the 3rd.

-Brooks comes in and we have new life.
He looks really fresh.
We mix-up the run
and pass and throw in some play action.
I have to say Philly did a good job of
keeping AD from breaking one open.
So close.
He does not floop around in a collapsing
pocket.
He steps-up and runs.
Great playaction too

-Although we settled for a FG, I liked the 1st drive by Brooks.
He did get a little
excited when he tossed into the 10th row.
LOL!

-Bad call for holding on Shiancoe.
kaka del rio call.

-The Eagles make 2 spectacular catches.
That's what happens in man coverage.
Griffin played Curtis good, he just make a slick catch.

-So close to breaking one!



Ultra's Salutes: http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/093.gif

Leber, Udeze sacks.
Kluwe - Our MVP.
Brooks - Had something to prove.
Like his energy.
He steps up in the pocket and moves
well back there.

AD - 3rd quarter he really wanted to get something going.

Wade - too bad he had to get injured
Longwell - when called on he did his job.
Brad's chart - wish he could keep the team that organized.

Ultra's Scorn:
http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/052.gif

O-line
Pass Defense
Defense - on 3rd down
AD - on the kickoff in the 2nd half
Kleinsasser - way to block, two sacks over you!
Crowd
Announcers - I usually like Stockton, but he sucked today.
Coaching staff (they fail as a unit)
Cameraman - PLEASE FOLLOW THE PLAY.
That's what you are paid to do.
Mckinnie - http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/obscene/022.gif
Third Down Efficiency


For next week:
Start #9!!!
http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/034.gif



I got to agree with most everything you said here.

As much hate & talk as there has been about Bollinger on this forum, he came out & played quite well IMO. He started out with 3 completions in a row & moved the team when Holcombe couldn't. When's the last time any of us saw any Vikings QB throw 3 comletions in a row? I believe it was Thigpen in preseason.

As to the one he sailed into the stands & out of the endzone on a latter series, IMO, it looked pretty clear to me he was doing nothing more than throwing that ball away. The one thing you get to see at the game sitting in the upper level, is everyone at once, how the plays develope & where the WR are. No one appeared to be open, so he smartly threw it away as the pocket was begining to collapse around him.

I actually started believing he could come in & win this one for us. He gave me hope. Then the O-Line let me down. He never had a chance on most of those sacks.

Glad you mentioned AD. I don't care how good he is, he still made a bone head play. Someone in another thread stated Childress was at fault because "he didn't tell AD to make sure that they should first step out of bounds, and THEN catch the ball. That way the Vikes get it on the 40. But Adrian Peterson had to learn that from the ref, and only after the mistake happened."

I say kaka del rio. There is no way anyone is going to get me to believe that a kick returner doesn't know if he catches or touches the ball in bounds & then steps out that they get it at that spot, not the 40.

Secondly, I'll bet if that was T-Will back there who made that mistake, there would have been multiple threads going, stating we should bench or cut his jiggly butt.

Udeze. Yes he did go outside a lot, but he was still getting more pressure on the QB when our other DE wasn't.

Udeze leads the Vikings with 4 sacks (Robison has 3-1/2) & has caused two fumbles. There were many here this past offseason who thought he was worthless & should have been cut, even though he was playing out of position last year.

Not a one of them have come back to eat crow.

As far as the crowd, I don't know what your beef was with them.
:-\


Also salute the Eagle who put Holcombe out of his 0-3 misery.
Pink slip him tomorrow.

Scorn, the anouncer who brought to the attention of everyone in Vikesland that Ryan Cook was in there
and then follows it up with "sacks Bollinger for a 9 yard loss virtually untouched."



I noticed that, too and laughed.

VikingsMB
10-28-2007, 10:49 PM
"COJOMAY" wrote:


"VikingsMB" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


Man, are we bad or what?
Not only is our Offense bad, but our Defense as well.

We had all the momentum to start this game.
We score and then recover the onside
kick; only to allow the Eagles to score 17 unanswered points.
It's a huge downer
when we pin them back deep only to watch them march the length of the field.

However, their was hope once Brooks (the new Purple Jesus) entered the game.

I guess I was not expecting us to come out and light the world on fire.
But I thought we could get a win at least.
It's not like Philly is a dominating team anymore, although McNabb is still a worthy opponent.

First Half:

-Pass blocking was horrible.
McKinnie cannot block squat.
Holcomb pressured on
almost dang pass.

-Holcomb....yuck!
I do not think TJ would've done any better, but Holcomb struggles.
At least he did not turn over the ball...luckily.

-We score because we run AD.
The 1st drive we have 11 plays and 6 were AD runs.
We
need to keep the run offense going.
After that drive the Eagles run D did stiffen.

-Stupid penalties will kill a drive any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

-3rd down efficiency 2-6.
That's not going to put points on the board.

-We give-up 252 yards on Defense.
McNabb has all day to go through his progressions
and hit an open man.
Where is the pressure?
And where the hell is Udeze going
on his pass rush?
Man does he go wide.
An Offensive line man will give you
that all day.
WTF?


Second Half:

-Way to go AD?
What the hell are you thinking?
And we waste a timeout. So we start
out on the 1 millimeter line and go nowhere.

-Our tackling is atrocious.
Unless with pull him down by the facemask.

-Philawarepragueicago is a cool place.

-Kleinsasser, nice blocking their buddy.
No effort what-so-ever!

-The Eagles where running left, off-tackle ok today.
They would try a few
up the gut to keep us honest.

-Mid 3rd, we finally get a sack by Leber...about gol 'darnit time.
And then Udeze.
Our
pressure finally starts to improve by the end of the 3rd.

-Brooks comes in and we have new life.
He looks really fresh.
We mix-up the run
and pass and throw in some play action.
I have to say Philly did a good job of
keeping AD from breaking one open.
So close.
He does not floop around in a collapsing
pocket.
He steps-up and runs.
Great playaction too

-Although we settled for a FG, I liked the 1st drive by Brooks.
He did get a little
excited when he tossed into the 10th row.
LOL!

-Bad call for holding on Shiancoe.
kaka del rio call.

-The Eagles make 2 spectacular catches.
That's what happens in man coverage.
Griffin played Curtis good, he just make a slick catch.

-So close to breaking one!



Ultra's Salutes: http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/093.gif

Leber, Udeze sacks.
Kluwe - Our MVP.
Brooks - Had something to prove.
Like his energy.
He steps up in the pocket and moves
well back there.

AD - 3rd quarter he really wanted to get something going.

Wade - too bad he had to get injured
Longwell - when called on he did his job.
Brad's chart - wish he could keep the team that organized.

Ultra's Scorn:
http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/052.gif

O-line
Pass Defense
Defense - on 3rd down
AD - on the kickoff in the 2nd half
Kleinsasser - way to block, two sacks over you!
Crowd
Announcers - I usually like Stockton, but he sucked today.
Coaching staff (they fail as a unit)
Cameraman - PLEASE FOLLOW THE PLAY.
That's what you are paid to do.
Mckinnie - http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/obscene/022.gif
Third Down Efficiency


For next week:
Start #9!!!
http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/hands/034.gif



I got to agree with most everything you said here.

As much hate & talk as there has been about Bollinger on this forum, he came out & played quite well IMO. He started out with 3 completions in a row & moved the team when Holcombe couldn't. When's the last time any of us saw any Vikings QB throw 3 comletions in a row? I believe it was Thigpen in preseason.

As to the one he sailed into the stands & out of the endzone on a latter series, IMO, it looked pretty clear to me he was doing nothing more than throwing that ball away. The one thing you get to see at the game sitting in the upper level, is everyone at once, how the plays develope & where the WR are. No one appeared to be open, so he smartly threw it away as the pocket was begining to collapse around him.

I actually started believing he could come in & win this one for us. He gave me hope. Then the O-Line let me down. He never had a chance on most of those sacks.

Glad you mentioned AD. I don't care how good he is, he still made a bone head play. Someone in another thread stated Childress was at fault because "he didn't tell AD to make sure that they should first step out of bounds, and THEN catch the ball. That way the Vikes get it on the 40. But Adrian Peterson had to learn that from the ref, and only after the mistake happened."

I say kaka del rio. There is no way anyone is going to get me to believe that a kick returner doesn't know if he catches or touches the ball in bounds & then steps out that they get it at that spot, not the 40.

Secondly, I'll bet if that was T-Will back there who made that mistake, there would have been multiple threads going, stating we should bench or cut his jiggly butt.

Udeze. Yes he did go outside a lot, but he was still getting more pressure on the QB when our other DE wasn't.

Udeze leads the Vikings with 4 sacks (Robison has 3-1/2) & has caused two fumbles. There were many here this past offseason who thought he was worthless & should have been cut, even though he was playing out of position last year.

Not a one of them have come back to eat crow.

As far as the crowd, I don't know what your beef was with them.
:-\


Also salute the Eagle who put Holcombe out of his 0-3 misery.
Pink slip him tomorrow.

Scorn, the anouncer who brought to the attention of everyone in Vikesland that Ryan Cook was in there
and then follows it up with "sacks Bollinger for a 9 yard loss virtually untouched."



I noticed that, too and laughed.


It's sad when a QB sack makes you laugh.
Shamefully, I was laughing too.

Frostbite
10-28-2007, 11:03 PM
I hear what you guys are saying....some great posts in here! Who is this guy Cook anyways....He shouldn't even be on the practice squad after what I saw today....and frankly Kliensausser should get demoted to the bench for a few games after his non-performance weak A...blocking attempts!

Cheers!

Prophet
10-29-2007, 12:58 AM
.



























































.

happy camper
10-29-2007, 12:59 AM
The best performance on the field was the marines during halftime.

singersp
10-29-2007, 07:46 AM
VIKINGS COMMENTARY: This team's running on empty (http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=55399&section=Sports&freebie_check&CFID=62478009&CFTOKEN=16358401&jsessionid=88304fb8adfe36197a16)

By Kevin Seifert, Star Tribune (Minneapolis)
Published Monday, October 29, 2007


MINNEAPOLIS - They played their final cards Sunday, pulling them from behind their back, from up their sleeve and even from that crease sewn into the lining of their top hats. The Minnesota Vikings started their best quarterback Sunday against Philadelphia. They finally put their playmaker on the field for the majority of their offensive plays and even popped a surprise onside kick in the first quarter.....

PurpleTide
10-29-2007, 08:33 AM
"Prophet" wrote:


.

That game left me speechless too Prophet, still have that empty hollow feeling...


























































.

NodakPaul
10-29-2007, 09:27 AM
My two cents.

I am still happy with our defense.
The secondary is still giving up some yardage - but they are doing a decent job NOT giving up the points.
That in the end is what counts.

The Vikings are a team that is very close to being good. However, we have been close for about a year and a half now, and I am not seeing improvement.
We constantly lose by 7 or less points.
We score ont he first drive and then never again all game.

The coaching staff needs to get their head out and fix our offense.
If it is the players, not the plays, then the front office staff is still responsible.
I was one of the people who had faith in our front office and their quiet offseason, and they are showing me that my faith was misplaced.

Suick
10-29-2007, 10:28 AM
We are not a come from behind team. A good running game can't overcome 17 point deficits. Again our 2ndary blew. Yet another 300+ passing effort.

3rd and forever = line it up again boys

But....................... the Eagle receivers made some spectacular catches.

pixie
10-29-2007, 10:32 AM
Here are the thoughts that I have after yesterday:

1. I was shocked at how the fans hung into the game.
In the 4th quarter it seemed like everyone was still making a lot of noise when McNabb was on the field amd this was great to hear.

2. As many have noted. Childress' 2nd challenge was asinine.
From watching it on tv, Childress looked like he was arguing with the guys up in the box... of course this is strictly my impression and has nothing to do with fact, but I would have loved to hear that conversation.
Is he so arrogant that he can't listen to reason?
I know this may be taking it too far, but right now I am emotional and don't care.
:P

3. When our 3rd strong quarterback looks good, we have issues!

4. What is wrong with the OL?

5. Again, this was from tv watching, but it looked like the Eagles' O-line was doing a whole lot of holding.

6. Our players look resigned which is probably the worst of it all.
I don't see any fight in them.

Anyway, these are just my observations.
I love my Vikings and when I see us playing the way we have been playing lately, my heart just feels heavy.
We have a lot of talent, but without passion (let alone coaching issues and everything else) does it even matter?
I don't mean that to sound overly dramatic, our team needs to find a way to get their spirit back.

Sometimes the intangible things are what make all the difference.

soonerbornNbred
10-29-2007, 01:33 PM
"singersp" wrote:


Glad you mentioned AD. I don't care how good he is, he still made a bone head play. Someone in another thread stated Childress was at fault because "he didn't tell AD to make sure that they should first step out of bounds, and THEN catch the ball. That way the Vikes get it on the 40. But Adrian Peterson had to learn that from the ref, and only after the mistake happened."

End quote


Are you absolutely NUTZ..... HE IS NOT A KR repeat not a Kick returner he is a runninback one of the best and he shouldnt be returning Kicks
yes it was a bonehead mistake, NO DOUBT but the bigger BONEHEAD is the one that sent him out there to begin with








YOU stick up for Bradley Ill stick up for AD we will see who goes further in this league













I will take sidebets

soonerbornNbred
10-29-2007, 09:18 PM
Now it comes out Peterson was coached to try and "step out of bounds when the ball is in the coffin corner" That is beyond stupid....

singersp
10-29-2007, 09:29 PM
"soonerbornNbred" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


Glad you mentioned AD. I don't care how good he is, he still made a bone head play. Someone in another thread stated Childress was at fault because "he didn't tell AD to make sure that they should first step out of bounds, and THEN catch the ball. That way the Vikes get it on the 40. But Adrian Peterson had to learn that from the ref, and only after the mistake happened."

End quote


Are you absolutely NUTZ..... HE IS NOT A KR repeat not a Kick returner he is a runninback one of the best and he shouldnt be returning Kicks
yes it was a bonehead mistake, NO DOUBT but the bigger BONEHEAD is the one that sent him out there to begin with








YOU stick up for Bradley Ill stick up for AD we will see who goes further in this league













I will take sidebets


Don't be ridiculous. I like AD just as much as you do. It was a bone-head mistake & you even agree with me. There was not even a debate whether it was right or wrong to have him returning kicks. What I questioned was the poster stating Childress did not know the rule or inform AD of the rule & the ref had to do it.

That's bullshit.

I am not a huge fan of Childress at all, but I'll stick up for any player or coach on the team if they are falsely accused or berated, whether I like that player or not.

Both AD & Childress knew the rule...........

“It’s a little-known rule, but if you put your foot out of bounds when you’re worried about a ball that’s going out of bounds and you’re not sure… the minute you put your foot out of bounds and possess the football, the ball is out of bounds. It comes out to the 40-yard line,” Childress said.

According to both Childress and Peterson, the Vikings actually work on this particular play during special teams drills. In the heat of the game, where decisions are made on a whim at times, it’s difficult to say whether Peterson was indeed trying to establish himself out of bounds, or if he just made a rookie mistake.

http://www2.kfan.com/content/vikings/story.aspx?content_id=ebba63e6-2e4e-464a-bbdc-2eb97fb7e5dd

Now, tell me again if I'm nutz.

sandviking
10-29-2007, 09:43 PM
Hello old friends.
I haven't been on the site for awhile, so I really don't have the right to spout off, but what is wrong with this team?
I have only had an opportunity to watch one game (vs. packers) and we were doing great, then we just gave them the game.
We seem to have tallent, but we can't go anywhere.
This is very frustrating.
Is this the Les Steckle year all over again?
Are we doomed to go 3-13, or worse yet, 2-14?
This really stinks!

soonerbornNbred
10-29-2007, 09:55 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"soonerbornNbred" wrote:
[quote]
"singersp" wrote:
[quote]
Now, tell me again if I'm nutz.


Naw Singer I was wrong in callin you nutz, You seem to do a lot for this site, I do appreciate you and all the News Articles you post ...I just really hate seeing Adrian out there during Kickoffs I dont think LT does it L.johnson or S. Alexander..so seeing AD doing it is beyond comprehension, it pissed me off at the start of the season and I believe the coach lied to him stating in articles you have posted here, that all our "Backup" RBs will return kicks..coaches very words...but this week after being told he was a "starter" hes still back there....and I know he was very valuable in the chicago win on that final return, but IMHO he had done enough in that game

Now dont get me wrong I know from watchin him for awhile, he is a great teammate and tells his coaches Ill do whatever is best for the team...but I saw it here at OU they abuse that quality in him, for their gain. Here at OU they ran him to death his freshman year, the OC ended up getting a head coaching for what? The OC had a heisman hopeful RB and QB that season... tough to make a bad call at OC

In conclusion my apologies for callin you nutz

but the sidebet offer still stands :D

singersp
10-29-2007, 10:01 PM
"sandviking" wrote:


Hello old friends.
I haven't been on the site for awhile, so I really don't have the right to spout off, but what is wrong with this team?
I have only had an opportunity to watch one game (vs. packers) and we were doing great, then we just gave them the game.
We seem to have tallent, but we can't go anywhere.
This is very frustrating.
Is this the Les Steckle year all over again?
Are we doomed to go 3-13, or worse yet, 2-14?
This really stinks!


Welcome back sandviking!

CCthebest
10-29-2007, 10:08 PM
How can some of you continue to think we have a great defense. We gave up 17 UNANSWERED points. Thats terrible. And we keep losing close games. If we had a great D wed be winning some of those. We cant cover, either the LBs or CRs. We have an average (if that) D that sometimes makes plays that score. We have an average D that keeps us in games. Its certainly not great.

singersp
10-29-2007, 10:19 PM
"soonerbornNbred" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:




Now, tell me again if I'm nutz.


Naw Singer I was wrong in callin you nutz, You seem to do a lot for this site, I do appreciate you and all the News Articles you post ...I just really hate seeing Adrian out there during Kickoffs I dont think LT does it L.johnson or S. Alexander..so seeing AD doing it is beyond comprehension, it pissed me off at the start of the season and I believe the coach lied to him stating in articles you have posted here, that all our "Backup" RBs will return kicks..coaches very words...but this week after being told he was a "starter" hes still back there....and I know he was very valuable in the chicago win on that final return, but IMHO he had done enough in that game

Now dont get me wrong I know from watchin him for awhile, he is a great teammate and tells his coaches Ill do whatever is best for the team...but I saw it here at OU they abuse that quality in him, for their gain. Here at OU they ran him to death his freshman year, the OC ended up getting a head coaching for what? The OC had a heisman hopeful RB and QB that season... tough to make a bad call at OC

In conclusion my apologies for callin you nutz

but the sidebet offer still stands :D


Thanx & no side bet needed. I'm with you all the way on AD. I bought his authentic. Childress on the other hand I'm having a hard time even putting up with him as coach, but I think coaches need to be given more than a year to put their plan into action into place. Steckel was the only exception. He ran a boot camp, not a team, So far, Childress is not doing as well as I feel he could be. I'm just sticking up for him here because that poster was dead wrong about him in this particular instance.

As far as AD returning kicks, I'm fine with that because you want to get your best players on the field at any oportunity to help the team win. I think his risk of injury is far less on returns than it is running into a huge defensive line & having some behemouth roll up on his leg/ankle.

You don't have many of those behemouths on kick-off coverage.

Besides, you get to see more of the Adrian Peterson show

IketheVike62
10-29-2007, 10:24 PM
The Defense may not be great, but they've been good enough to put us in a position to win most of the games if they would have had any help from the Offense.
There has been absolutely no continuity in the passing game.
With backs like AD & Taylor, we should be killing teams with play-action passes.

So now, we are just a one dimensional team.
If Peterson doesn't rip off a big run, we're three and out.
The Defense ends up being on the field all the time.
And it just snowballs downhill from there. :(

PurplePowerPunch
10-29-2007, 10:25 PM
"CCthebest" wrote:


How can some of you continue to think we have a great defense. We gave up 17 UNANSWERED points. Thats terrible. And we keep losing close games. If we had a great D wed be winning some of those. We cant cover, either the LBs or CRs. We have an average (if that) D that sometimes makes plays that score. We have an average D that keeps us in games. Its certainly not great.


Yeah thats y I'm against the Tampa 2 defense, cause our LBs can't cover. We couldn't cover anyone on sunday at all, and Mac-5 dinked and dunked us all day. I say we blitz a little more, since our front four can't get to the QB. 3-4 or the 4-3 would suit us well as a defense. We'll cause more turnovers in games I believe. We got the goods people, we just gotta make the adjustments.(Brad Childress)

CCthebest
10-29-2007, 10:26 PM
Oh i agree. The D is on the field WAY too often. And the no pressure from the D line makes our cover guys look bad....but that still means they are, at best, an average D

Ltrey33
10-29-2007, 10:31 PM
"sandviking" wrote:


Hello old friends.
I haven't been on the site for awhile, so I really don't have the right to spout off, but what is wrong with this team?
I have only had an opportunity to watch one game (vs. packers) and we were doing great, then we just gave them the game.
We seem to have tallent, but we can't go anywhere.
This is very frustrating.
Is this the Les Steckle year all over again?
Are we doomed to go 3-13, or worse yet, 2-14?
This really stinks!


I'm sure we all have different opinions, but I think it's coaching and the quarterback position. We have been in every single game. Our defense and our running game has kept us in it, but in the last 3 games combined we have had less than 30 pass completions from our starters, and that just won't get it done.

norseforce
10-30-2007, 12:09 AM
I think we should bring BACK JEFF GEORGE, he's better than anything we have right now.

singersp
10-30-2007, 08:04 AM
Feel the Frustration (http://www.dailynorseman.com/story/2007/10/29/184720/84)

By Gonzo
www.dailynorseman.com
Posted on Mon, 29 October 2007 at 18:47:20 EDT


"Now is the winter of our discontent. . ." - William Shakespeare, Richard III, 1594

I know it's not winter. . .not yet, anyway. . .but a lot of Viking fan nation, including your humble blogger here, are already quite discontented with the complete and utter lack of progress made by the Beloved Purple this season.

singersp
10-30-2007, 08:16 AM
Vikings’ blog: A ‘spark plug’? (http://www.plamerican.com/node/3813)

Submitted by Shawn Hogendorf on October 29, 2007 - 1:48pm
plamerican.com


As I spent yet another Sunday afternoon watching the Vikings get out played and out coached by another NFC team, my attention turned to the predictability of the play-by-play commentators.....

V-Unit
10-30-2007, 05:58 PM
"CCthebest" wrote:


How can some of you continue to think we have a great defense. We gave up 17 UNANSWERED points. Thats terrible. And we keep losing close games. If we had a great D wed be winning some of those. We cant cover, either the LBs or CRs. We have an average (if that) D that sometimes makes plays that score. We have an average D that keeps us in games. Its certainly not great.


When you give up unanswered points, the blame lies on both the defense (for not stopping them) AND the offense (for not scoring, or "answering). While the Eagles offense put 17 on the board during 3 straight drives, our offense got one first down in 3 drives. Our offense averages 14.7 points per game. Our Defense averages 19.6 points against per game.

Is 19.6 too much? It could be better, but is certainly acceptable.
Is 14.7 too little? Definetly.
How many times have you turned off the TV at halftime this year?
If we lost a game 14-20, who would you blame?

Game after game, our defense gives our offense a chance to win. Not to mention the 4 TDs they have scored this year.

douginc
10-30-2007, 06:53 PM
What bothers me most about the Childress era of coaching is honestly not even the losses.
Teams have losing years all the time, and eventually the tides turn.
It's the fact that EVERY single week is the exact carbon copy of the last.
We're losing in the identical pattern.
We all know what the box score is going to be after each game.
I said it last week, and it was correct once again.
Let's recite it, as we all know it by heart:

Rushing:
We beat the opponent in yards and attempt.
We usually stop the run rather well forcing them to few attempts.
Passing:
Our opponent beats us in yards and attempts.
We usually cannot establish the pass and are forced into fewer attempts.
Opening Drive:
Best possession of the game for us, usually turns into points.
The team typically disappears on offense afterwards.
Final Score:
The game is typically close throughout, leading many people to contemplate that we could have potentially won the game.
However, after losing 15 games, many of them close, it's difficult to continue pondering 'what ifs' or blame the loss on 'unlucky bounces'.

Almost 100% of our games have followed this formula.
It's getting to be a bit boring and stale for the casual Vikings fan to watch.

I'm diehard.
I'll watch no matter what.
But, to be honest, my enthusiasm has been a bit deflated.
It's to the point where we are logically (not mathematically, but to any reasonable person...) out of the playoffs, and should nearly hope for a higher draft pick.
And that's NEVER something to look forward to.

sleepagent
10-31-2007, 03:25 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"sleepagent" wrote:


and now I get to go into work tomorrow and face a crowd of Eagle's Fans!

THANKS VIKES . . . you made me proud to be a fan.

:'(


You only have to worry about that when we play the Eagles?
I have all kinds of Vikes stuff hanging in my cube and a fathead on my tailgate and a flag that flies in front of my house, all of which are displayed year round.

Everyone, I mean everyone that even has the faintest idea about football rags on me steady for the last 2 years.
I got calls from guys all the way out in HI today (they were on travel so I thought I was safe
;D).

Kindof gets mind numbing at times.

;D

SKOL VIKES.


No . . . they are just the current team to rag on us.

I recently started working in the DC area and ALL the REDSKINS fans were humble and quiet . . . I LOVED IT!
I wish they would play the PATS again.

Marrdro
10-31-2007, 03:29 PM
"sleepagent" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"sleepagent" wrote:


and now I get to go into work tomorrow and face a crowd of Eagle's Fans!

THANKS VIKES . . . you made me proud to be a fan.

:'(


You only have to worry about that when we play the Eagles?
I have all kinds of Vikes stuff hanging in my cube and a fathead on my tailgate and a flag that flies in front of my house, all of which are displayed year round.

Everyone, I mean everyone that even has the faintest idea about football rags on me steady for the last 2 years.
I got calls from guys all the way out in HI today (they were on travel so I thought I was safe
;D).

Kindof gets mind numbing at times.

;D

SKOL VIKES.


No . . . they are just the current team to rag on us.

I recently started working in the DC area and ALL the REDSKINS fans were humble and quiet . . . I LOVED IT!
I wish they would play the PATS again.

I work in an area that is mostly a bunch of retired military down here in Southeastern VA.
Almost all teams represented...... :o

I get a pretty steady ration of crap, however, if you haven't noticed, I can usually out shit talk anyone if given the right ammo.
;D

I sure love this team and love to support em.

norseforce
11-11-2007, 10:35 PM
my thoughts are that GREENWAY should not be starting,he never makes a play,always beaten by tightends,backs,misses tackles, the dude is a clown

snowinapril
11-11-2007, 10:39 PM
My observation is that there is a lot of complaining about this team that could be cured by winning.
Too bad we will probably have to wait until next year to cure it.

C Mac D
11-11-2007, 10:41 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


My observation is that there is a lot of complaining about this team that could be cured by winning.
Too bad we will probably have to wait until next year to cure it.



I wish it would happen as soon as next year... but Childress has completely destroyed this team. It could be 2-3 seasons before we're at least decent again. I hate to say that... but it's true.

marstc09
11-11-2007, 10:42 PM
"norseforce" wrote:


my thoughts are that GREENWAY should not be starting,he never makes a play,always beaten by tightends,backs,misses tackles, the dude is a clown


Finally someone else agrees with me that Greenway is not that good.

PurplePeopleEaters
11-11-2007, 10:44 PM
"marstc09" wrote:


"norseforce" wrote:


my thoughts are that GREENWAY should not be starting,he never makes a play,always beaten by tightends,backs,misses tackles, the dude is a clown


Finally someone else agrees with me that Greenway is not that good.


Totally agree. Not saying replace him since he is essentially a rookie but a lot of our defense is a joke. No pass rush, linebackers suck in coverage, no safeties... we couldn't even stop the run today. Pathetic.

NodakPaul
11-11-2007, 10:52 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"norseforce" wrote:


my thoughts are that GREENWAY should not be starting,he never makes a play,always beaten by tightends,backs,misses tackles, the dude is a clown


Finally someone else agrees with me that Greenway is not that good.


Totally agree. Not saying replace him since he is essentially a rookie but a lot of our defense is a joke. No pass rush, linebackers suck in coverage, no safeties... we couldn't even stop the run today. Pathetic.


I don't agree.
Greenway's play has been decent all year.
Saying crap like "always beaten" and "never makes plays" shows that you aren't watching the game objectively.
There is no such thing as absolutes (always and never) in football.
Greenway isn't the best LB on our team (that would be EJ), but he is holding his own.

I am going to watch the game again tomorrow, but I didn't see him getting beat be a TE at all that game.
I did see the RB beat him to the corner twice, which shouldn't happen.
But over all I didn't have any major problems with his play in particular.
He was, BTW, tied for second in tackles with 6.
Only EJ had more with 10.

I saw Leber standing with his hands on hips after he failed to drop back onto coverage and gave up a first down today.
Geez what a clown
::)

Odin VAVikefan
11-11-2007, 11:12 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


"marstc09" wrote:


"norseforce" wrote:


my thoughts are that GREENWAY should not be starting,he never makes a play,always beaten by tightends,backs,misses tackles, the dude is a clown


Finally someone else agrees with me that Greenway is not that good.


Totally agree. Not saying replace him since he is essentially a rookie but a lot of our defense is a joke. No pass rush, linebackers suck in coverage, no safeties... we couldn't even stop the run today. Pathetic.


I don't agree.
Greenway's play has been decent all year.
Saying crap like "always beaten" and "never makes plays" shows that you aren't watching the game objectively.
There is no such thing as absolutes (always and never) in football.
Greenway isn't the best LB on our team (that would be EJ), but he is holding his own.

I am going to watch the game again tomorrow, but I didn't see him getting beat be a TE at all that game.
I did see the RB beat him to the corner twice, which shouldn't happen.
But over all I didn't have any major problems with his play in particular.
He was, BTW, tied for second in tackles with 6.
Only EJ had more with 10.

I saw Leber standing with his hands on hips after he failed to drop back onto coverage and gave up a first down today.
Geez what a clown
::)


Let's also not forget how long it took for E.J. to start playing like he had a brain. It's WAY too early to discard a 10-game experienced LB whom we took in the first round.

Also, Leber may not have done well today, but he's shined out there in a number of games this year. Seems more like Frazier wasn't communicating any adjustments (or at least good ones) to the guys today.

C Mac D
11-11-2007, 11:24 PM
I like Greenway and Leber. They just need to be on the same page... the whole team does.

Hate to sound like a broken record... but it comes down to coaching.

Marrdro
11-13-2007, 09:47 AM
"C" wrote:


I like Greenway and Leber. They just need to be on the same page... the whole team does.

Hate to sound like a broken record... but it comes down to coaching.

Shock, suprise, I agree.
But it also comes down to the players executing what is coached as well.

A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?

Phat Pat, dropping into coverage.
I know, alot of laughs, but if you watch closely, he got to his zone quickly and was in place for someone if they came there.
Lost weight, quicker Phat Pat, something that Favre didn't expect.
By the way, everyone forgets that DT and DE often drop back into those short/low zones in a cover 2.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Production our of both Robison (rookie) and Keneche (no sacks last year).
Can that be attributed to coaching?

ZB scheme (which normally takes 5 years to install and be effective) seems to be a strong point since week 3.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Hererra and Cook.
Last stat I saw had only 24 yards less rushing by AD than the left.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Pre-snap penalties by OL.
I would anticipate seeing this as worse than better this year if for no other reason than the fact that the QB's seem to be on a constant rotation.
Voice inflection, speed at calling play etc alone will cause a OL to false start.
Last stat I saw this was way way way down from last year.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Special teams.
Again, one of my biggest concerns this year to a point, I started a thread on it.
Now it is one of our strengths.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

I think you can answer yes to coaching on all, however, you can also say that in most cases the players are also executing what is coached.

Long story short, everyone seems to pick on the same issues and rightly so, however, I contend that is because no one can see any of the good, cause they are so blinded by thier hate because of thier focus on wins and losses alone.


This staff along with a group of very talented, but highly inexperienced players are doing good things if one cares to look hard enough.

C Mac D
11-13-2007, 10:01 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I like Greenway and Leber. They just need to be on the same page... the whole team does.

Hate to sound like a broken record... but it comes down to coaching.

Shock, suprise, I agree.
But it also comes down to the players executing what is coached as well.

A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?

Phat Pat, dropping into coverage.
I know, alot of laughs, but if you watch closely, he got to his zone quickly and was in place for someone if they came there.
Lost weight, quicker Phat Pat, something that Favre didn't expect.
By the way, everyone forgets that DT and DE often drop back into those short/low zones in a cover 2.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Production our of both Robison (rookie) and Keneche (no sacks last year).
Can that be attributed to coaching?

ZB scheme (which normally takes 5 years to install and be effective) seems to be a strong point since week 3.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Hererra and Cook.
Last stat I saw had only 24 yards less rushing by AD than the left.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Pre-snap penalties by OL.
I would anticipate seeing this as worse than better this year if for no other reason than the fact that the QB's seem to be on a constant rotation.
Voice inflection, speed at calling play etc alone will cause a OL to false start.
Last stat I saw this was way way way down from last year.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Special teams.
Again, one of my biggest concerns this year to a point, I started a thread on it.
Now it is one of our strengths.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

I think you can answer yes to coaching on all, however, you can also say that in most cases the players are also executing what is coached.

Long story short, everyone seems to pick on the same issues and rightly so, however, I contend that is because no one can see any of the good, cause they are so blinded by thier hate because of thier focus on wins and losses alone.


This staff along with a group of very talented, but highly inexperienced players are doing good things if one cares to look hard enough.


3-6.... that can be attributed to coaching.

Marrdro
11-13-2007, 10:02 AM
"C" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I like Greenway and Leber. They just need to be on the same page... the whole team does.

Hate to sound like a broken record... but it comes down to coaching.

Shock, suprise, I agree.
But it also comes down to the players executing what is coached as well.

A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?

Phat Pat, dropping into coverage.
I know, alot of laughs, but if you watch closely, he got to his zone quickly and was in place for someone if they came there.
Lost weight, quicker Phat Pat, something that Favre didn't expect.
By the way, everyone forgets that DT and DE often drop back into those short/low zones in a cover 2.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Production our of both Robison (rookie) and Keneche (no sacks last year).
Can that be attributed to coaching?

ZB scheme (which normally takes 5 years to install and be effective) seems to be a strong point since week 3.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Hererra and Cook.
Last stat I saw had only 24 yards less rushing by AD than the left.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Pre-snap penalties by OL.
I would anticipate seeing this as worse than better this year if for no other reason than the fact that the QB's seem to be on a constant rotation.
Voice inflection, speed at calling play etc alone will cause a OL to false start.
Last stat I saw this was way way way down from last year.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Special teams.
Again, one of my biggest concerns this year to a point, I started a thread on it.
Now it is one of our strengths.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

I think you can answer yes to coaching on all, however, you can also say that in most cases the players are also executing what is coached.

Long story short, everyone seems to pick on the same issues and rightly so, however, I contend that is because no one can see any of the good, cause they are so blinded by thier hate because of thier focus on wins and losses alone.

This staff along with a group of very talented, but highly inexperienced players are doing good things if one cares to look hard enough.


3-6.... that can be attributed to coaching.

Nuff said. (See bolded area)
;D

snowinapril
11-13-2007, 10:23 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I like Greenway and Leber. They just need to be on the same page... the whole team does.

Hate to sound like a broken record... but it comes down to coaching.

Shock, suprise, I agree.
But it also comes down to the players executing what is coached as well.

A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?

Phat Pat, dropping into coverage.
I know, alot of laughs, but if you watch closely, he got to his zone quickly and was in place for someone if they came there.
Lost weight, quicker Phat Pat, something that Favre didn't expect.
By the way, everyone forgets that DT and DE often drop back into those short/low zones in a cover 2.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Production our of both Robison (rookie) and Keneche (no sacks last year).
Can that be attributed to coaching?

ZB scheme (which normally takes 5 years to install and be effective) seems to be a strong point since week 3.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Hererra and Cook.
Last stat I saw had only 24 yards less rushing by AD than the left.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Pre-snap penalties by OL.
I would anticipate seeing this as worse than better this year if for no other reason than the fact that the QB's seem to be on a constant rotation.
Voice inflection, speed at calling play etc alone will cause a OL to false start.
Last stat I saw this was way way way down from last year.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Special teams.
Again, one of my biggest concerns this year to a point, I started a thread on it.
Now it is one of our strengths.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

I think you can answer yes to coaching on all, however, you can also say that in most cases the players are also executing what is coached.

Long story short, everyone seems to pick on the same issues and rightly so, however, I contend that is because no one can see any of the good, cause they are so blinded by thier hate because of thier focus on wins and losses alone.

This staff along with a group of very talented, but highly inexperienced players are doing good things if one cares to look hard enough.


3-6.... that can be attributed to coaching.

Nuff said. (See bolded area)
;D


I read a comment on here yesterday, that basically said that as a manager (coach) of professionals, you come to work to manage and not teach.
Professionals are suppose to know their job and do it with a little bit of direction.
I think that in this case, our coaches are doing a lot of teaching.
Double duty!
On offense, we have
TJ, Rice, and AD, young guys.
I am sure they have their own position coaches to help them out, but they are in need of individual help with the offense.
The Defense also has young guys that need that constant help, but I think that there is enough leadership on that side of the ball that they get a lot of help from the players too.
Chilly and Bevel are the two guys that really know and are able to teach this offense, so they are hands on all the time, teaching in addition to coaching.

When you have guys like Manning, Brady and Favre that know the offense like the back of their hand, you have an on the field teacher and the coaches on the sideline managing the game.

BTW, where has Robison gone lately....

Marrdro
11-13-2007, 10:38 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I like Greenway and Leber. They just need to be on the same page... the whole team does.

Hate to sound like a broken record... but it comes down to coaching.

Shock, suprise, I agree.
But it also comes down to the players executing what is coached as well.

A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?

Phat Pat, dropping into coverage.
I know, alot of laughs, but if you watch closely, he got to his zone quickly and was in place for someone if they came there.
Lost weight, quicker Phat Pat, something that Favre didn't expect.
By the way, everyone forgets that DT and DE often drop back into those short/low zones in a cover 2.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Production our of both Robison (rookie) and Keneche (no sacks last year).
Can that be attributed to coaching?

ZB scheme (which normally takes 5 years to install and be effective) seems to be a strong point since week 3.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Hererra and Cook.
Last stat I saw had only 24 yards less rushing by AD than the left.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Pre-snap penalties by OL.
I would anticipate seeing this as worse than better this year if for no other reason than the fact that the QB's seem to be on a constant rotation.
Voice inflection, speed at calling play etc alone will cause a OL to false start.
Last stat I saw this was way way way down from last year.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

Special teams.
Again, one of my biggest concerns this year to a point, I started a thread on it.
Now it is one of our strengths.
Can that be attributed to coaching?

I think you can answer yes to coaching on all, however, you can also say that in most cases the players are also executing what is coached.

Long story short, everyone seems to pick on the same issues and rightly so, however, I contend that is because no one can see any of the good, cause they are so blinded by thier hate because of thier focus on wins and losses alone.

This staff along with a group of very talented, but highly inexperienced players are doing good things if one cares to look hard enough.


3-6.... that can be attributed to coaching.

Nuff said. (See bolded area)

;D


I read a comment on here yesterday, that basically said that as a manager (coach) of professionals, you come to work to manage and not teach.
Professionals are suppose to know their job and do it with a little bit of direction.
I think that in this case, our coaches are doing a lot of teaching.
Double duty!
On offense, we have
TJ, Rice, and AD, young guys.
I am sure they have their own position coaches to help them out, but they are in need of individual help with the offense.
The Defense also has young guys that need that constant help, but I think that there is enough leadership on that side of the ball that they get a lot of help from the players too.
Chilly and Bevel are the two guys that really know and are able to teach this offense, so they are hands on all the time, teaching in addition to coaching.

When you have guys like Manning, Brady and Favre that know the offense like the back of their hand, you have an on the field teacher and the coaches on the sideline managing the game.

BTW, where has Robison gone lately....

You are wise beyond your years my friend.

Very good post.

Remember when people on here were Beeeeyyatching when the found out we had the most coaches on any staff.
I said it was cause we were gonna have alot of youngsters out there playing, or something to that effect.

Again, very nice post.
;D

Big C
11-19-2007, 10:28 AM
Wow C Mac D, thats an awesome post. Thanks for helping us record-minded folks get through this season. That is not a sarcastic comment BTW.

Zeus
11-19-2007, 10:32 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?


What?
Henderson has been playing well since the end of the 2005 season, all through the 2006 season and now into the 2007 season.


Sheesh, Marr - don't elect Frazier to the HoF quite yet, okay?

=Z=

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 10:41 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?


What?
Henderson has been playing well since the end of the 2005 season, all through the 2006 season and now into the 2007 season.


Sheesh, Marr - don't elect Frazier to the HoF quite yet, okay?

=Z=

Sorry, should have drawn a better picture.......
;D

He did not play well his first try as the MLB.
Now he is.
Go and search this very site for threads centered around the release of Napo this year and how dumb our coaches were for doing it.

Again, I as the question..........
Is it coaching or just the player?

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1423356.html

Zeus
11-19-2007, 10:45 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?


What?
Henderson has been playing well since the end of the 2005 season, all through the 2006 season and now into the 2007 season.


Sheesh, Marr - don't elect Frazier to the HoF quite yet, okay?

=Z=

Sorry, should have drawn a better picture.......

;D

He did not play well his first try as the MLB.
Now he is.
Go and search this very site for threads centered around the release of Napo this year and how dumb our coaches were for doing it.

Again, I as the question..........
Is it coaching or just the player?

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1423356.html


It's the player.

As I have pointed out on PPO NUMEROUS times, EJ has basically followed the same path in the pros that he did in college, when he won the Butkus award as the top MLB in college football his senior year at Maryland.
He was asked to do too much too quickly by Ted Cottrell and could not handle the responsibilty.
However, when given the time to learn and mature, he is putting together a Pro Bowl season at the spot.
Given 3 different D-Coordinators in 3 season, I'm apt to subscribe the vast majority of his maturity to the hard work he has put in to get there, rather than coaching.

=Z=

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 10:50 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?


What?
Henderson has been playing well since the end of the 2005 season, all through the 2006 season and now into the 2007 season.


Sheesh, Marr - don't elect Frazier to the HoF quite yet, okay?

=Z=

Sorry, should have drawn a better picture.......

;D

He did not play well his first try as the MLB.
Now he is.
Go and search this very site for threads centered around the release of Napo this year and how dumb our coaches were for doing it.

Again, I as the question..........
Is it coaching or just the player?

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1423356.html


It's the player.

As I have pointed out on PPO NUMEROUS times, EJ has basically followed the same path in the pros that he did in college, when he won the Butkus award as the top MLB in college football his senior year at Maryland.
He was asked to do too much too quickly by Ted Cottrell and could not handle the responsibilty.
However, when given the time to learn and mature, he is putting together a Pro Bowl season at the spot.
Given 3 different D-Coordinators in 3 season, I'm apt to subscribe the vast majority of his maturity to the hard work he has put in to get there, rather than coaching.

=Z=


So your point, the way I understand it then, is, if we have better than avg - to - great players at every position we don't need coaches to make them better?
In fact the 3 different D-coords actually held him back by moving him to OLB instead of letting him struggle through the MLB issues he had coming right out of college.
::)

If that is the case, then hell, all we need to do is let them play and at some point they will figure it out on thier own?

All the money we spend on this huge coaching staff could go towards the new stadium.

DustinDupont
11-19-2007, 10:50 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?


What?
Henderson has been playing well since the end of the 2005 season, all through the 2006 season and now into the 2007 season.


Sheesh, Marr - don't elect Frazier to the HoF quite yet, okay?

=Z=

Sorry, should have drawn a better picture.......

;D

He did not play well his first try as the MLB.
Now he is.
Go and search this very site for threads centered around the release of Napo this year and how dumb our coaches were for doing it.

Again, I as the question..........
Is it coaching or just the player?

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1423356.html


It's the player.

As I have pointed out on PPO NUMEROUS times, EJ has basically followed the same path in the pros that he did in college, when he won the Butkus award as the top MLB in college football his senior year at Maryland.
He was asked to do too much too quickly by Ted Cottrell and could not handle the responsibilty.
However, when given the time to learn and mature, he is putting together a Pro Bowl season at the spot.
Given 3 different D-Coordinators in 3 season, I'm apt to subscribe the vast majority of his maturity to the hard work he has put in to get there, rather than coaching.

=Z=


i agree too.. its the player.. allow it seems like they are allowing him to do a lot more blitzing

Zeus
11-19-2007, 11:07 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?


What?
Henderson has been playing well since the end of the 2005 season, all through the 2006 season and now into the 2007 season.


Sheesh, Marr - don't elect Frazier to the HoF quite yet, okay?


Sorry, should have drawn a better picture.......

;D

He did not play well his first try as the MLB.
Now he is.
Go and search this very site for threads centered around the release of Napo this year and how dumb our coaches were for doing it.

Again, I as the question..........
Is it coaching or just the player?

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1423356.html


It's the player.

As I have pointed out on PPO NUMEROUS times, EJ has basically followed the same path in the pros that he did in college, when he won the Butkus award as the top MLB in college football his senior year at Maryland.
He was asked to do too much too quickly by Ted Cottrell and could not handle the responsibilty.
However, when given the time to learn and mature, he is putting together a Pro Bowl season at the spot.
Given 3 different D-Coordinators in 3 season, I'm apt to subscribe the vast majority of his maturity to the hard work he has put in to get there, rather than coaching.


So your point, the way I understand it then, is, if we have better than avg - to - great players at every position we don't need coaches to make them better?
In fact the 3 different D-coords actually held him back by moving him to OLB instead of letting him struggle through the MLB issues he had coming right out of college.
::)

If that is the case, then hell, all we need to do is let them play and at some point they will figure it out on thier own?

All the money we spend on this huge coaching staff could go towards the new stadium.


That's NOT what I said, bubi!

The challenges for a player to work in different schemes under different coordinators should not be minimized.
EJ struggled (bad coaching) when he was put into the MLB position early in his career.
The switch to outside (good coaching) enabled him to use his athleticism and tackling skills to work while on the field, and allowed him to learn the pro game.

You asked - is it more the player or the coaching.
I answered that it was the player.
That doesn't mean there's no impact on him from the coaching he's gotten.
I just feel that the player deserves most of the credit for this year's success.

=Z=

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 11:24 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:




A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?


What?
Henderson has been playing well since the end of the 2005 season, all through the 2006 season and now into the 2007 season.


Sheesh, Marr - don't elect Frazier to the HoF quite yet, okay?


Sorry, should have drawn a better picture.......

;D

He did not play well his first try as the MLB.
Now he is.
Go and search this very site for threads centered around the release of Napo this year and how dumb our coaches were for doing it.

Again, I as the question..........
Is it coaching or just the player?

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1423356.html


It's the player.

As I have pointed out on PPO NUMEROUS times, EJ has basically followed the same path in the pros that he did in college, when he won the Butkus award as the top MLB in college football his senior year at Maryland.
He was asked to do too much too quickly by Ted Cottrell and could not handle the responsibilty.
However, when given the time to learn and mature, he is putting together a Pro Bowl season at the spot.
Given 3 different D-Coordinators in 3 season, I'm apt to subscribe the vast majority of his maturity to the hard work he has put in to get there, rather than coaching.


So your point, the way I understand it then, is, if we have better than avg - to - great players at every position we don't need coaches to make them better?
In fact the 3 different D-coords actually held him back by moving him to OLB instead of letting him struggle through the MLB issues he had coming right out of college.
::)

If that is the case, then hell, all we need to do is let them play and at some point they will figure it out on thier own?

All the money we spend on this huge coaching staff could go towards the new stadium.


That's NOT what I said, bubi!

The challenges for a player to work in different schemes under different coordinators should not be minimized.
EJ struggled (bad coaching) when he was put into the MLB position early in his career.
The switch to outside (good coaching) enabled him to use his athleticism and tackling skills to work while on the field, and allowed him to learn the pro game.

You asked - is it more the player or the coaching.
I answered that it was the player.
That doesn't mean there's no impact on him from the coaching he's gotten.
I just feel that the player deserves most of the credit for this year's success.

=Z=

Bubi......
:o
;D You crack me up.

Actually I believe it takes both.
A talented player who is receptive to coaching and the reps that the coaching staff can use to to fine tune both.

bleedpurple
11-19-2007, 11:57 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:






A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?


What?
Henderson has been playing well since the end of the 2005 season, all through the 2006 season and now into the 2007 season.


Sheesh, Marr - don't elect Frazier to the HoF quite yet, okay?


Sorry, should have drawn a better picture.......

;D

He did not play well his first try as the MLB.
Now he is.
Go and search this very site for threads centered around the release of Napo this year and how dumb our coaches were for doing it.

Again, I as the question..........
Is it coaching or just the player?

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1423356.html


It's the player.

As I have pointed out on PPO NUMEROUS times, EJ has basically followed the same path in the pros that he did in college, when he won the Butkus award as the top MLB in college football his senior year at Maryland.
He was asked to do too much too quickly by Ted Cottrell and could not handle the responsibilty.
However, when given the time to learn and mature, he is putting together a Pro Bowl season at the spot.
Given 3 different D-Coordinators in 3 season, I'm apt to subscribe the vast majority of his maturity to the hard work he has put in to get there, rather than coaching.


So your point, the way I understand it then, is, if we have better than avg - to - great players at every position we don't need coaches to make them better?
In fact the 3 different D-coords actually held him back by moving him to OLB instead of letting him struggle through the MLB issues he had coming right out of college.
::)

If that is the case, then hell, all we need to do is let them play and at some point they will figure it out on thier own?

All the money we spend on this huge coaching staff could go towards the new stadium.


That's NOT what I said, bubi!

The challenges for a player to work in different schemes under different coordinators should not be minimized.
EJ struggled (bad coaching) when he was put into the MLB position early in his career.
The switch to outside (good coaching) enabled him to use his athleticism and tackling skills to work while on the field, and allowed him to learn the pro game.

You asked - is it more the player or the coaching.
I answered that it was the player.
That doesn't mean there's no impact on him from the coaching he's gotten.
I just feel that the player deserves most of the credit for this year's success.

=Z=

Bubi......
:o
;D You crack me up.

Actually I believe it takes both.
A talented player who is receptive to coaching and the reps that the coaching staff can use to to fine tune both.


I'm with Zeus on this one... EJ started becoming a beast when Tomlin got here.. yes, he moved over to the middle, but by then he was very well adept to the cover-2 scheme and understands the game better..

while some of his development can "possibly" be attributed to Frazier, or the lb coach, i think mostly it was EJ "getting it" than the coaching of putting him in the middle and teaching him..

remember tomlin made all lb's learn all 3 positions so he was already familiar with the MLB position.
He had a lights out year last year so it can't all be coaching..

Either way, i'm not sold on Frazier as a DC.. our defense is way worse and he vowed to improve the secondary which hasnt happened...

not sure u can give the staff all the credit for EJ being this good....

remember he got his huge contract after last year.. if he just got good this year he would be playing somewhere else for sure...

Marrdro
11-19-2007, 12:01 PM
"bleedpurple" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:








A poster says, how long did it take EJ to start playing well.......
Answer......
As soon as Leslie got here.
Can Coaching be attributed to that?


What?
Henderson has been playing well since the end of the 2005 season, all through the 2006 season and now into the 2007 season.


Sheesh, Marr - don't elect Frazier to the HoF quite yet, okay?


Sorry, should have drawn a better picture.......

;D

He did not play well his first try as the MLB.
Now he is.
Go and search this very site for threads centered around the release of Napo this year and how dumb our coaches were for doing it.

Again, I as the question..........
Is it coaching or just the player?

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1423356.html


It's the player.

As I have pointed out on PPO NUMEROUS times, EJ has basically followed the same path in the pros that he did in college, when he won the Butkus award as the top MLB in college football his senior year at Maryland.
He was asked to do too much too quickly by Ted Cottrell and could not handle the responsibilty.
However, when given the time to learn and mature, he is putting together a Pro Bowl season at the spot.
Given 3 different D-Coordinators in 3 season, I'm apt to subscribe the vast majority of his maturity to the hard work he has put in to get there, rather than coaching.


So your point, the way I understand it then, is, if we have better than avg - to - great players at every position we don't need coaches to make them better?
In fact the 3 different D-coords actually held him back by moving him to OLB instead of letting him struggle through the MLB issues he had coming right out of college.
::)

If that is the case, then hell, all we need to do is let them play and at some point they will figure it out on thier own?

All the money we spend on this huge coaching staff could go towards the new stadium.


That's NOT what I said, bubi!

The challenges for a player to work in different schemes under different coordinators should not be minimized.
EJ struggled (bad coaching) when he was put into the MLB position early in his career.
The switch to outside (good coaching) enabled him to use his athleticism and tackling skills to work while on the field, and allowed him to learn the pro game.

You asked - is it more the player or the coaching.
I answered that it was the player.
That doesn't mean there's no impact on him from the coaching he's gotten.
I just feel that the player deserves most of the credit for this year's success.

=Z=

Bubi......
:o
;D You crack me up.

Actually I believe it takes both.
A talented player who is receptive to coaching and the reps that the coaching staff can use to to fine tune both.

I'm with Zeus on this one... EJ started becoming a beast when Tomlin got here.. yes, he moved over to the middle, but by then he was very well adept to the cover-2 scheme and understands the game better..

while some of his development can "possibly" be attributed to Frazier, or the lb coach, i think mostly it was EJ "getting it" than the coaching of putting him in the middle and teaching him..

remember tomlin made all lb's learn all 3 positions so he was already familiar with the MLB position.
He had a lights out year last year so it can't all be coaching..

Either way, i'm not sold on Frazier as a DC.. our defense is way worse and he vowed to improve the secondary which hasnt happened...

not sure u can give the staff all the credit for EJ being this good....

remember he got his huge contract after last year.. if he just got good this year he would be playing somewhere else for sure...

All right, I will move you into the Z column on the spread sheet.


JK.
;D

See my bolded comment.