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View Full Version : Why does everyone rip our pass defense ?



StillPurple
09-22-2007, 10:15 PM
Question for Vikings Nation: why is our passing defense constantly being denigrated ? We are not that bad vs. the pass, and our defense is actually the best in the NFL right now (I play fantasy football, and my DST - defense, special teams is Minnesota. I won my league with them last year, BTW). I personally think that we have one of the best secondaries in the league. Winfield, Griffin, Sharper, Smith (or Williams), etc. Almost all pro bowlers. Yes, Favre got lucky and beat us last year, but I can't recall a single game in which we got torched deep for a TD. Giving up "junk yardage" at midfield is not my definition of being bad on defense. Yes, Tom Brady did destroy us last year, but the Patriots are cheaters, so I assume they were stealing our signals and it was just cheating. Why do we have the rep of being soft vs. the pass ?

vike68
09-22-2007, 10:29 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Question for Vikings Nation: why is our passing defense constantly being denigrated ? We are not that bad vs. the pass, and our defense is actually the best in the NFL right now (I play fantasy football, and my DST - defense, special teams is Minnesota. I won my league with them last year, BTW). I personally think that we have one of the best secondaries in the league. Winfield, Griffin, Sharper, Smith (or Williams), etc. Almost all pro bowlers. Yes, Favre got lucky and beat us last year, but I can't recall a single game in which we got torched deep for a TD. Giving up "junk yardage" at midfield is not my definition of being bad on defense. Yes, Tom Brady did destroy us last year, but the Patriots are cheaters, so I assume they were stealing our signals and it was just cheating. Why do we have the rep of being soft vs. the pass ?




they rip our pass defense since its the sofest when it comes down to it. we might not give up the deep ball, but we give up almost everything underneath and than once were in our redzone is when its hard for teams to score.we have a bend but dont break defense, and and griffin gets beat like a rug all the time.

ultravikingfan
09-22-2007, 10:36 PM
How can you bring Fantasy Football into this?
They are good fantasy wise because of points allowed, takeaways, and defensive TD's.
Dude this is reality football we are talking about.

Why do people rip the pass D?
Did you watch the New England game last year?


Look where we rank this year and we have yet to face a stellar QB:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Passing&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=530&old_category=Total&old_group=Offense

We are 25th for crying out loud.

Look at last year....31st!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2006&sort=1126&old_category=Total&old_group=Defense

We do they rip our pass D?
Cause it is terrible and we sometimes make medicre QB's look like superstars.

cajunvike
09-22-2007, 11:00 PM
Cuz they can't rip our RUN defense!

PurpleGator
09-22-2007, 11:57 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


Cuz they can't rip our RUN defense!


Good Point.
Our Run D is pretty great.
Thanks to Pat Williams.

StillPurple
09-23-2007, 12:09 AM
I already mentioned that Patriots game in my original post, and I think it is not representative for a couple of reasons:

a. the Patriots cheat.
b. Mike Tomlin is gone. He was responsible for that, because he made no adjustments all game.

I personally think that the Cover 2 is working very well. I mean, yes, we might be a bit "soft" in the medium pas range, but we lead the NFL in defensive TDs, so, I would argue, we are coming out on top.

What is up with that gator. I thought this was a PRO football forum.
::)

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
09-23-2007, 12:29 AM
Kitna with Roy Williams, Mike Furrey and Calvin Johnson with Martz system will tear apart anybodys pass defense. Dont worry. He ripped apart Oaklands pass defense more then he ripped apart ours and Oakland has the #1 pass defense in the league. So We managed pretty well considering we are supposed to be the worst. The reason for that is because the only ran the ball somewhere around 7 times.
Come on guys. Dont worry. People wont be able to do that against our defense all year. If we lose games we will lose like that.


Because of 3 things.



We dont run enough like on 3rd and short



Because Tarvaris Jackson throws 4 interceptions.



Because we go up against one of the best passing games in the league

Avoiding those things we are a decently dominant force in the NFC.





How can you bring Fantasy Football into this?
They are good fantasy wise because of points allowed, takeaways, and defensive TD's.
Dude this is reality
football we are talking about.

Why do people rip the pass D?
Did you watch the New England game last year?

Look where we rank this year and we have yet to face a stellar QB:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Passing&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=530&old_category=Total&old_group=Offense

We are 25th for crying out loud.

Look at last year....31st!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2006&sort=1126&old_category=Total&old_group=Defense


Thats silly. I never thought a Vikes fan would bring something like that in here. you know rankings so you should know those rankings are so flawed. Its yards per game and if they pass it so many times more then everyone else does on other teams then those yardage goes up making us look worse. I would like someone to look up where we rank on yards allowed per pass attempt. Not as bad as per game i bet. That is what really determines how good we are against the pass. We arent as terrible as everyone thinks. We have a huge disadvantage if teams pass 20 more times against us then they do on other teams and in 20 attempts they get more then other teams do without those 20.

ultravikingfan
09-23-2007, 01:10 AM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


Kitna with Roy Williams, Mike Furrey and Calvin Johnson with Martz system will tear apart anybodys pass defense. Dont worry. He ripped apart Oaklands pass defense more then he ripped apart ours and Oakland has the #1 pass defense in the league. So We managed pretty well considering we are supposed to be the worst. The reason for that is because the only ran the ball somewhere around 7 times.
Come on guys. Dont worry. People wont be able to do that against our defense all year. If we lose games we will lose like that.


Because of 3 things.



We dont run enough like on 3rd and short



Because Tarvaris Jackson throws 4 interceptions.



Because we go up against one of the best passing games in the league

Avoiding those things we are a decently dominant force in the NFC.





How can you bring Fantasy Football into this?
They are good fantasy wise because of points allowed, takeaways, and defensive TD's.
Dude this is reality
football we are talking about.

Why do people rip the pass D?
Did you watch the New England game last year?

Look where we rank this year and we have yet to face a stellar QB:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Passing&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=530&old_category=Total&old_group=Offense

We are 25th for crying out loud.

Look at last year....31st!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2006&sort=1126&old_category=Total&old_group=Defense


Thats silly. I never thought a Vikes fan would bring something like that in here. you know rankings so you should know those rankings are so flawed. Its yards per game and if they pass it so many times more then everyone else does on other teams then those yardage goes up making us look worse. I would like someone to look up where we rank on yards allowed per pass attempt. Not as bad as per game i bet. That is what really determines how good we are against the pass. We arent as terrible as everyone thinks. We have a huge disadvantage if teams pass 20 more times against us then they do on other teams and in 20 attempts they get more then other teams do without those 20.



Gee, rankings are bad?
I guess FF is more of a measure.

I guess I am not a Vikings fan pointing out we give up yards passing.


What was I thinking.

vike68
09-23-2007, 05:39 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


I already mentioned that Patriots game in my original post, and I think it is not representative for a couple of reasons:

a. the Patriots cheat.
b. Mike Tomlin is gone. He was responsible for that, because he made no adjustments all game.

I personally think that the Cover 2 is working very well. I mean, yes, we might be a bit "soft" in the medium pas range, but we lead the NFL in defensive TDs, so, I would argue, we are coming out on top.

What is up with that gator. I thought this was a PRO football forum.
::)


this isnt the first year we began using the cover 2.
and mike tomlin is the reason we have the d we have
so why would you even try to take a shot at tomlin, reguarless
of the patriots taping scandal, they are a far better team
than any team in the nfl as of today.

oakland had the #1 pass defense last year and last year
is last year and this year is this year, for all we know oakland
could have the worst pass d this year.

its obvious our pass d is our weakness, and if you try to say otherwise u just plain dont understand the concept of football cause its pretty blatent.

singersp
09-23-2007, 08:24 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:


Question for Vikings Nation: why is our passing defense constantly being denigrated ? We are not that bad vs. the pass, and our defense is actually the best in the NFL right now (I play fantasy football, and my DST - defense, special teams is Minnesota. I won my league with them last year, BTW). I personally think that we have one of the best secondaries in the league. Winfield, Griffin, Sharper, Smith (or Williams), etc. Almost all pro bowlers. Yes, Favre got lucky and beat us last year, but I can't recall a single game in which we got torched deep for a TD. Giving up "junk yardage" at midfield is not my definition of being bad on defense. Yes, Tom Brady did destroy us last year, but the Patriots are cheaters, so I assume they were stealing our signals and it was just cheating. Why do we have the rep of being soft vs. the pass ?



I hate it when people pull shit out of there ass.

We are not the best defense out there.

We are 3rd over all;

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1126&old_category=Passing&old_group=Defense

6th in rushing & 25th in passing;

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Rankings&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1130&old_category=Total&old_group=Defense

30th in receiving yards/game;

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Receiving&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1124&old_category=Rankings&old_group=Defense

Marrdro
09-23-2007, 08:51 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"StillPurple" wrote:


Question for Vikings Nation: why is our passing defense constantly being denigrated ? We are not that bad vs. the pass, and our defense is actually the best in the NFL right now (I play fantasy football, and my DST - defense, special teams is Minnesota. I won my league with them last year, BTW). I personally think that we have one of the best secondaries in the league. Winfield, Griffin, Sharper, Smith (or Williams), etc. Almost all pro bowlers. Yes, Favre got lucky and beat us last year, but I can't recall a single game in which we got torched deep for a TD. Giving up "junk yardage" at midfield is not my definition of being bad on defense. Yes, Tom Brady did destroy us last year, but the Patriots are cheaters, so I assume they were stealing our signals and it was just cheating. Why do we have the rep of being soft vs. the pass ?



I hate it when people pull pooh out of there jiggly butt.

We are not the best defense out there.

We are 3rd over all;

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1126&old_category=Passing&old_group=Defense

6th in rushing & 25th in passing;

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Rankings&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1130&old_category=Total&old_group=Defense

30th in receiving yards/game;

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Receiving&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1124&old_category=Rankings&old_group=Defense


Damit Singer.
Both you and the Hammer need to quit bringing facts into these discussions.
How the hell am I gonna set my fantasy lineup and make my Madden team now.
:o

Jeeeeessssszzzzz
;D

randle93
09-23-2007, 09:28 AM
It has always been that way, being a Minnesota Viking fan, we never get no respect. If we win a Super Bowl, they find a reason to say we got lucky.
you are right they give up junk yards, ten and under.
If you look at red zone defense and point allowed we are in the top 12, from last year.
When the breakdown happens it is because they have out there to long, because the offense has hard time keeping drives going.
The Lions game last week, they had real success in the pass, when they ran four or five wide, with no huddle, and we could not make adjustments in players.
But when we have a nickel or dime defense they could not pass, with that great of success.
What other team has 10 sacks, 3 defensive touch downs - NONE

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
09-23-2007, 09:45 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


Kitna with Roy Williams, Mike Furrey and Calvin Johnson with Martz system will tear apart anybodys pass defense. Dont worry. He ripped apart Oaklands pass defense more then he ripped apart ours and Oakland has the #1 pass defense in the league. So We managed pretty well considering we are supposed to be the worst. The reason for that is because the only ran the ball somewhere around 7 times.
Come on guys. Dont worry. People wont be able to do that against our defense all year. If we lose games we will lose like that.


Because of 3 things.



We dont run enough like on 3rd and short



Because Tarvaris Jackson throws 4 interceptions.



Because we go up against one of the best passing games in the league

Avoiding those things we are a decently dominant force in the NFC.





How can you bring Fantasy Football into this?
They are good fantasy wise because of points allowed, takeaways, and defensive TD's.
Dude this is reality
football we are talking about.

Why do people rip the pass D?
Did you watch the New England game last year?

Look where we rank this year and we have yet to face a stellar QB:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Passing&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=530&old_category=Total&old_group=Offense

We are 25th for crying out loud.

Look at last year....31st!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2006&sort=1126&old_category=Total&old_group=Defense


Thats silly. I never thought a Vikes fan would bring something like that in here. you know rankings so you should know those rankings are so flawed. Its yards per game and if they pass it so many times more then everyone else does on other teams then those yardage goes up making us look worse. I would like someone to look up where we rank on yards allowed per pass attempt. Not as bad as per game i bet. That is what really determines how good we are against the pass. We arent as terrible as everyone thinks. We have a huge disadvantage if teams pass 20 more times against us then they do on other teams and in 20 attempts they get more then other teams do without those 20.



Gee, rankings are bad?
I guess FF is more of a measure.

I guess I am not a Vikings fan pointing out we give up yards passing.


What was I thinking.


Read. I didnt say anything about fantasy football being the decider. It isnt. I said yards per play is fair for how you rank them. Im just saying that yards per game are flawed and I did say that. Because if they pass enough more then they do against another defense then they are bund to get more yardage per game and thats what happens to us all year and thats because no one can run on us. And most Vikes fans know that because they know so much about the Vikes and know the ranking is unfair because of the increased amount of pass attempts on us.

singersp
09-23-2007, 09:51 AM
"randle93" wrote:


It has always been that way, being a Minnesota Viking fan, we never get no respect. If we win a Super Bowl, they find a reason to say we got lucky.
you are right they give up junk yards, ten and under.
If you look at red zone defense and point allowed we are in the top 12, from last year.
When the breakdown happens it is because they have out there to long, because the offense has hard time keeping drives going.
The Lions game last week, they had real success in the pass, when they ran four or five wide, with no huddle, and we could not make adjustments in players.
But when we have a nickel or dime defense they could not pass, with that great of success.
What other team has 10 sacks, 3 defensive touch downs - NONE


Another reason they are out there is because they give up lots of what you call "junk yards". I don't agree with the term in this context because 2 of your so called "junk yards" equates to a first down.

First downs equate to extended drives, which keeps our defense on the field longer. The Lions, like the Patriots last year, burned us on the short pass over & over again.

We have given up 58 of your so called "junk yards" that have added up to 528 yards.

58 completions given up is the worst in the NFL & the 528 passing yards is 25th (7th worst).

Defensive Stats (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Passing&conference=NFL&year=season_2007&sort=1115&timeframe=)

PurplePeopleEaters
09-23-2007, 09:55 AM
I don't care what we rank in pass D. I don't care how many "yards per play" we give up. I'll tell you this. I have now watched Matt Leinart, Brett Favre, Jon Kitna, Chad Pennington, JT O'Sullivan and Marc Bulger tear our pass defense to shreds in a span of about 10 games. That's sad and means that something has to change.

PurpleHornsOfDestruction
09-23-2007, 10:00 AM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


I don't care what we rank in pass D. I don't care how many "yards per play" we give up. I'll tell you this. I have now watched Matt Leinart, Brett Favre, Jon Kitna, Chad Pennington, JT O'Sullivan and Marc Bulger tear our pass defense to shreds in a span of about 10 games. That's sad and means that something has to change.


Well this year is all that matters and I did see Jon Kitna do good against our pass D. I think we have improved a lot against the pass. It was Jon Kitna. Underrated he is but he is a superior quarterback, Heres what I said a bit ago.

Kitna with Roy Williams, Mike Furrey and Calvin Johnson with Martz system will tear apart anybodys pass defense. Dont worry. He ripped apart Oaklands pass defense more then he ripped apart ours and Oakland has the #1 pass defense in the league. So We managed pretty well considering we are supposed to be the worst. The reason for that is because the only ran the ball somewhere around 7 times.
Come on guys. Dont worry. People wont be able to do that against our defense all year. If we lose games we will lose like that.


Because of 3 things.



We dont run enough like on 3rd and short



Because Tarvaris Jackson throws 4 interceptions.



Because we go up against one of the best passing games in the league

Avoiding those things we are a decently dominant force in the NFC.

PurplePeopleEaters
09-23-2007, 10:05 AM
"PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:


"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


I don't care what we rank in pass D. I don't care how many "yards per play" we give up. I'll tell you this. I have now watched Matt Leinart, Brett Favre, Jon Kitna, Chad Pennington, JT O'Sullivan and Marc Bulger tear our pass defense to shreds in a span of about 10 games. That's sad and means that something has to change.


Well this year is all that matters and I did see Jon Kitna do good against our pass D. I think we have improved a lot against the pass. It was Jon Kitna. Underrated he is but he is a superior quarterback, Heres what I said a bit ago.

Kitna with Roy Williams, Mike Furrey and Calvin Johnson with Martz system will tear apart anybodys pass defense. Dont worry. He ripped apart Oaklands pass defense more then he ripped apart ours and Oakland has the #1 pass defense in the league. So We managed pretty well considering we are supposed to be the worst. The reason for that is because the only ran the ball somewhere around 7 times.
Come on guys. Dont worry. People wont be able to do that against our defense all year. If we lose games we will lose like that.


Because of 3 things.



We dont run enough like on 3rd and short



Because Tarvaris Jackson throws 4 interceptions.



Because we go up against one of the best passing games in the league

Avoiding those things we are a decently dominant force in the NFC.



I would agree with your argument completely. Only problem is that JT O'Sullivan stepped in and did the exact same thing that Kitna was doing. Sure, he threw a pick but our pass D could just not stop those short routes that got them first downs. Then Kitna came in during OT with a concussion, yes, a concussion, and proceeded to march down the field and lead them to victory. Until the vikes show me differently, I'm still disappointed in our pass D.

ultravikingfan
09-23-2007, 05:18 PM
Question for Vikings Nation: why is our passing defense constantly being denigrated ?

Gee...I wonder.

MensaTice
09-23-2007, 05:22 PM
Because its bottom 5 in the NFL and I believe the worst last year