PDA

View Full Version : Vikings' air attack has remained grounded so far



singersp
08-20-2007, 06:54 AM
Vikings' air attack has remained grounded so far (http://www.startribune.com/vikings/story/1371547.html)

Defensive scores and a strong running game have limited the Vikings' passing opportunities.

By Kevin Seifert, Star Tribune

Last update: August 19, 2007 – 11:21 PM

The young quarterback has a new slot receiver, an expensive upgrade at tight end and a different play-caller. Really. Trust us. Don't listen to your eyes, as Yogi Berra might say....

singersp
08-20-2007, 06:56 AM
Vikings' passing game gets a pass (http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_6666076)

Childress not worried, insists he has seen Jackson make enough throws

BY DON SEEHOLZER
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 08/19/2007 11:05:40 PM CDT


Halfway through the exhibition season, Vikings coach Brad Childress still hasn't seen much of quarterback Tarvaris Jackson and the passing game in game conditions but insists it isn't a concern....

vikingivan
08-20-2007, 07:18 AM
I am confident Childress knows what he is doing when it comes to evaluating QB's and getting them prepared.
I am hopeful that he learned from his mistakes last year, and will be a better coach this year.

PurpleTide
08-20-2007, 07:21 AM
We should get a good look at our number 1 guys on offense. I'd like to see Troy get behind the defense, and Shiancoe in the seam, and flat. Rice and Wade catch and run in traffic. But first and foremost I want sustained drives and TouchDowns. O-line domination, and no pre-snap penalties.
We've been doing pretty good so far and I want to see it continue'd.

Much as I loved the defensive scoring performance last week, it really changed our offensive play calling, so I hope the d plays well, but lets the offense score on a short field, rather than scoring theirselves.

I don't expect us to show multiple formations, or get too innovative in our play calling, just want to see some third downs converted and some drives that result in touchdowns. I know we are stil a work in progress, but with our defense we will be afforded the time to become a good offense.

Marrdro
08-20-2007, 07:40 AM
"PurpleTide" wrote:



We should get a good look at our number 1 guys on offense. I'd like to see Troy get behind the defense, and Shiancoe in the seem, and flat. Rice and Wade catch and run in traffic. But first and foremost I want sustained drives and TouchDowns. O-line domination, and no pre-snap penalties.
We've been doing pretty good so far and I want to see it continue'd.

Much as I loved the defensive scoring performance last week, it really changed our offensive play calling, so I hope the d plays well, but lets the offense score on a short field, rather than scoring theirselves.

I don't expect us to show multiple formations, or get too innovative in our play calling, just want to see some third downs converted and some drives that result in touchdowns. I know we are stil a work in progress, but with our defense we will be afforded the time to become a good offense.


First, a couple of nice reads Singer.
Heck they even put in stats for other starters to show were we are at.

Second, PurpleTide I hear ya, however, I think you saw some of what we want during the second qtr of the Jets game?

[quote]4:35 MIN - TD, ADRIAN PETERSON 3 YD RUN (RYAN LONGWELL KICK).
MINNESOTA 21-6./quote]

Granted, it wasn't a "Chuck it deep" kindof drive that got our D back out on the field right away, but none the less, a good drive that got 6 on the board, chewed up over 4 minutes and gave our D a rest.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Pretty good drive IMHO that was called by the staff and executed by the team based on the situation.
Isn't that what we have beeeeyatching for all summer?
;D

Purple Floyd
08-20-2007, 09:09 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"PurpleTide" wrote:
[quote]

We should get a good look at our number 1 guys on offense. I'd like to see Troy get behind the defense, and Shiancoe in the seem, and flat. Rice and Wade catch and run in traffic. But first and foremost I want sustained drives and TouchDowns. O-line domination, and no pre-snap penalties.
We've been doing pretty good so far and I want to see it continue'd.

Much as I loved the defensive scoring performance last week, it really changed our offensive play calling, so I hope the d plays well, but lets the offense score on a short field, rather than scoring theirselves.

I don't expect us to show multiple formations, or get too innovative in our play calling, just want to see some third downs converted and some drives that result in touchdowns. I know we are stil a work in progress, but with our defense we will be afforded the time to become a good offense.


First, a couple of nice reads Singer.
Heck they even put in stats for other starters to show were we are at.

Second, PurpleTide I hear ya, however, I think you saw some of what we want during the second qtr of the Jets game?


4:35 MIN - TD, ADRIAN PETERSON 3 YD RUN (RYAN LONGWELL KICK).
MINNESOTA 21-6./quote]

Granted, it wasn't a "Chuck it deep" kindof drive that got our D back out on the field right away, but none the less, a good drive that got 6 on the board, chewed up over 4 minutes and gave our D a rest.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Pretty good drive IMHO that was called by the staff and executed by the team based on the situation.
Isn't that what we have beeeeyatching for all summer? ;D



Yep. ;D

NodakPaul
08-20-2007, 09:53 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"PurpleTide" wrote:



We should get a good look at our number 1 guys on offense. I'd like to see Troy get behind the defense, and Shiancoe in the seem, and flat. Rice and Wade catch and run in traffic. But first and foremost I want sustained drives and TouchDowns. O-line domination, and no pre-snap penalties.
We've been doing pretty good so far and I want to see it continue'd.

Much as I loved the defensive scoring performance last week, it really changed our offensive play calling, so I hope the d plays well, but lets the offense score on a short field, rather than scoring theirselves.

I don't expect us to show multiple formations, or get too innovative in our play calling, just want to see some third downs converted and some drives that result in touchdowns. I know we are stil a work in progress, but with our defense we will be afforded the time to become a good offense.


First, a couple of nice reads Singer.
Heck they even put in stats for other starters to show were we are at.

Second, PurpleTide I hear ya, however, I think you saw some of what we want during the second qtr of the Jets game?


4:35 MIN - TD, ADRIAN PETERSON 3 YD RUN (RYAN LONGWELL KICK).
MINNESOTA 21-6.

Granted, it wasn't a "Chuck it deep" kindof drive that got our D back out on the field right away, but none the less, a good drive that got 6 on the board, chewed up over 4 minutes and gave our D a rest.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Pretty good drive IMHO that was called by the staff and executed by the team based on the situation.
Isn't that what we have beeeeyatching for all summer?
;D



It was a good sustained drive, with decent calls and few mistakes.
And it put 6 on the board.
All positives.
I do think we need to involve our WRs more in deeper routes, or teams will be able to stack the box against us.
Not a Chuck it deep kind of drive, but one that still keeps the secondary in the secondary... I still like the idea of short passes and YAC as our primary passing strategy, but we really need a deep shot to keep them hpnest every once in a while.

I am excited for Saturday's game against the Chiefs.
We will see the starters again for pretty much the entire half, and hopefully see Bevell and Coach Childress address the only two weak spots we have right now: deep passing attack, and punts/kicks.
The fourth preseason game is pretty much worthless because the starters will be resting, so this is our last real chance befoe the season starts!

Zeus
08-20-2007, 09:55 AM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


I am excited for Saturday's game against the Chiefs.



Who are the Chiefs playing on Saturday that's got you so interested in them?

I, myself, will be watching the Vikings-Seahawks game.

=Z=

Marrdro
08-20-2007, 10:00 AM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"PurpleTide" wrote:



We should get a good look at our number 1 guys on offense. I'd like to see Troy get behind the defense, and Shiancoe in the seem, and flat. Rice and Wade catch and run in traffic. But first and foremost I want sustained drives and TouchDowns. O-line domination, and no pre-snap penalties.
We've been doing pretty good so far and I want to see it continue'd.

Much as I loved the defensive scoring performance last week, it really changed our offensive play calling, so I hope the d plays well, but lets the offense score on a short field, rather than scoring theirselves.

I don't expect us to show multiple formations, or get too innovative in our play calling, just want to see some third downs converted and some drives that result in touchdowns. I know we are stil a work in progress, but with our defense we will be afforded the time to become a good offense.


First, a couple of nice reads Singer.
Heck they even put in stats for other starters to show were we are at.

Second, PurpleTide I hear ya, however, I think you saw some of what we want during the second qtr of the Jets game?


4:35 MIN - TD, ADRIAN PETERSON 3 YD RUN (RYAN LONGWELL KICK).
MINNESOTA 21-6.

Granted, it wasn't a "Chuck it deep" kindof drive that got our D back out on the field right away, but none the less, a good drive that got 6 on the board, chewed up over 4 minutes and gave our D a rest.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Pretty good drive IMHO that was called by the staff and executed by the team based on the situation.
Isn't that what we have beeeeyatching for all summer?
;D



It was a good sustained drive, with decent calls and few mistakes.
And it put 6 on the board.
All positives.
I do think we need to involve our WRs more in deeper routes, or teams will be able to stack the box against us.
Not a Chuck it deep kind of drive, but one that still keeps the secondary in the secondary... I still like the idea of short passes and YAC as our primary passing strategy, but we really need a deep shot to keep them hpnest every once in a while.

I am excited for Saturday's game against the Chiefs.
We will see the starters again for pretty much the entire half, and hopefully see Bevell and Coach Childress address the only two weak spots we have right now: deep passing attack, and punts/kicks.
The fourth preseason game is pretty much worthless because the starters will be resting, so this is our last real chance befoe the season starts!


Nice post NP.


I agree with you to a point......
Kicking appears to be a weak spot, however, Reyes did most of the kicking.
Maybe Kluwe will get a shot next.


This issue has me a bit worried.
:o

As far as the passing attack, that is a percieved weakness only based on what we saw last year.

Passes/passing looked good against the Rams and what little we saw against the Jets didn't look to shabby.


Case in point,,,,,,, If it wasn't for a great play by the Jets D T-will would have made a nice grab.


Maybe one of our smart guys can go back to the tape and get us a shot of T-wills hands right before the ball was knocked away by the Jets defender.
If memory serves, he was in correct position to catch the ball.

Again, I have been on this WR Corps bandwagon all year.
I think we are gonna be pleasantly suprised this year (Moss crotch sniffers be damned
;D)

This issue doesn't have me as worried as most.
:o

Prophet
08-20-2007, 10:01 AM
They should throw it deep every play, then we could complain about that for a while.
It would be a nice change of pace.

NodakPaul
08-20-2007, 10:08 AM
"Zeus" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


I am excited for Saturday's game against the Chiefs.



Who are the Chiefs playing on Saturday that's got you so interested in them?

I, myself, will be watching the Vikings-Seahawks game.

=Z=


Doh.
Early on a Monday.
Thanks Z (Now where the hell did I get the Chiefs from?).

PurpleTide
08-20-2007, 10:10 AM
We sure did Marrdro, I hope to see more than 1 drive that scores a TD. Also I want to see us put a drive together after we make adjustments at halftime. A longball wouldn't hurt either. I want to see Troy haul one in, that would do wonders for my confidense in him. We are going in the right direction, just want to see it continue.

Prophet
08-20-2007, 10:11 AM
It is time to panic.

cajunvike
08-20-2007, 10:12 AM
Hopefully, the passing game will be on pace by the start of the season...I know that the running game will be!

NodakPaul
08-20-2007, 10:13 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"PurpleTide" wrote:



We should get a good look at our number 1 guys on offense. I'd like to see Troy get behind the defense, and Shiancoe in the seem, and flat. Rice and Wade catch and run in traffic. But first and foremost I want sustained drives and TouchDowns. O-line domination, and no pre-snap penalties.
We've been doing pretty good so far and I want to see it continue'd.

Much as I loved the defensive scoring performance last week, it really changed our offensive play calling, so I hope the d plays well, but lets the offense score on a short field, rather than scoring theirselves.

I don't expect us to show multiple formations, or get too innovative in our play calling, just want to see some third downs converted and some drives that result in touchdowns. I know we are stil a work in progress, but with our defense we will be afforded the time to become a good offense.


First, a couple of nice reads Singer.
Heck they even put in stats for other starters to show were we are at.

Second, PurpleTide I hear ya, however, I think you saw some of what we want during the second qtr of the Jets game?


4:35 MIN - TD, ADRIAN PETERSON 3 YD RUN (RYAN LONGWELL KICK).
MINNESOTA 21-6.

Granted, it wasn't a "Chuck it deep" kindof drive that got our D back out on the field right away, but none the less, a good drive that got 6 on the board, chewed up over 4 minutes and gave our D a rest.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Pretty good drive IMHO that was called by the staff and executed by the team based on the situation.
Isn't that what we have beeeeyatching for all summer?
;D



It was a good sustained drive, with decent calls and few mistakes.
And it put 6 on the board.
All positives.
I do think we need to involve our WRs more in deeper routes, or teams will be able to stack the box against us.
Not a Chuck it deep kind of drive, but one that still keeps the secondary in the secondary... I still like the idea of short passes and YAC as our primary passing strategy, but we really need a deep shot to keep them hpnest every once in a while.

I am excited for Saturday's game against the Chiefs.
We will see the starters again for pretty much the entire half, and hopefully see Bevell and Coach Childress address the only two weak spots we have right now: deep passing attack, and punts/kicks.
The fourth preseason game is pretty much worthless because the starters will be resting, so this is our last real chance befoe the season starts!


Nice post NP.


I agree with you to a point......
Kicking appears to be a weak spot, however, Reyes did most of the kicking.
Maybe Kluwe will get a shot next.


This issue has me a bit worried.
:o

As far as the passing attack, that is a percieved weakness only based on what we saw last year.

Passes/passing looked good against the Rams and what little we saw against the Jets didn't look to shabby.


Case in point,,,,,,, If it wasn't for a great play by the Jets D T-will would have made a nice grab.


Maybe one of our smart guys can go back to the tape and get us a shot of T-wills hands right before the ball was knocked away by the Jets defender.
If memory serves, he was in correct position to catch the ball.

Again, I have been on this WR Corps bandwagon all year.
I think we are gonna be pleasantly suprised this year (Moss crotch sniffers be damned
;D)

This issue doesn't have me as worried as most.
:o


I have it DVRed still.
Tonight I will pull it on YouTube and post it.

TWill was in the right position, but the pass was either late, or not thrown far enough, and allowed the Jets safety to come over and knock it down.
I don't fault the WR Corps at all for that one.


I am actually optimistic for our WR crops too.
But the WR is only half of the deep threat.
The QB is the other.
Granted the TWill shot was from Bollinger, but the prior game TJack threw one to TWill that was off target by at least a yard.
I am not getting off the purple bandwagon yet by any means, but I would like to see something to settle any fears out there...

Then again, it is just preseason, and we are not seeing everything that we will in the regular season.
Maybe Coach Childress is keeping some things close to his chest...

Marrdro
08-20-2007, 11:21 AM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"PurpleTide" wrote:



We should get a good look at our number 1 guys on offense. I'd like to see Troy get behind the defense, and Shiancoe in the seem, and flat. Rice and Wade catch and run in traffic. But first and foremost I want sustained drives and TouchDowns. O-line domination, and no pre-snap penalties.
We've been doing pretty good so far and I want to see it continue'd.

Much as I loved the defensive scoring performance last week, it really changed our offensive play calling, so I hope the d plays well, but lets the offense score on a short field, rather than scoring theirselves.

I don't expect us to show multiple formations, or get too innovative in our play calling, just want to see some third downs converted and some drives that result in touchdowns. I know we are stil a work in progress, but with our defense we will be afforded the time to become a good offense.


First, a couple of nice reads Singer.
Heck they even put in stats for other starters to show were we are at.

Second, PurpleTide I hear ya, however, I think you saw some of what we want during the second qtr of the Jets game?


4:35 MIN - TD, ADRIAN PETERSON 3 YD RUN (RYAN LONGWELL KICK).
MINNESOTA 21-6.

Granted, it wasn't a "Chuck it deep" kindof drive that got our D back out on the field right away, but none the less, a good drive that got 6 on the board, chewed up over 4 minutes and gave our D a rest.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Pretty good drive IMHO that was called by the staff and executed by the team based on the situation.
Isn't that what we have beeeeyatching for all summer?
;D



It was a good sustained drive, with decent calls and few mistakes.
And it put 6 on the board.
All positives.
I do think we need to involve our WRs more in deeper routes, or teams will be able to stack the box against us.
Not a Chuck it deep kind of drive, but one that still keeps the secondary in the secondary... I still like the idea of short passes and YAC as our primary passing strategy, but we really need a deep shot to keep them hpnest every once in a while.

I am excited for Saturday's game against the Chiefs.
We will see the starters again for pretty much the entire half, and hopefully see Bevell and Coach Childress address the only two weak spots we have right now: deep passing attack, and punts/kicks.
The fourth preseason game is pretty much worthless because the starters will be resting, so this is our last real chance befoe the season starts!


Nice post NP.


I agree with you to a point......
Kicking appears to be a weak spot, however, Reyes did most of the kicking.
Maybe Kluwe will get a shot next.


This issue has me a bit worried.

:o

As far as the passing attack, that is a percieved weakness only based on what we saw last year.

Passes/passing looked good against the Rams and what little we saw against the Jets didn't look to shabby.


Case in point,,,,,,, If it wasn't for a great play by the Jets D T-will would have made a nice grab.


Maybe one of our smart guys can go back to the tape and get us a shot of T-wills hands right before the ball was knocked away by the Jets defender.
If memory serves, he was in correct position to catch the ball.

Again, I have been on this WR Corps bandwagon all year.
I think we are gonna be pleasantly suprised this year (Moss crotch sniffers be damned
;D)

This issue doesn't have me as worried as most.

:o


I have it DVRed still.
Tonight I will pull it on YouTube and post it.

TWill was in the right position, but the pass was either late, or not thrown far enough, and allowed the Jets safety to come over and knock it down.
I don't fault the WR Corps at all for that one.


I am actually optimistic for our WR crops too.
But the WR is only half of the deep threat.
The QB is the other.
Granted the TWill shot was from Bollinger, but the prior game TJack threw one to TWill that was off target by at least a yard.
I am not getting off the purple bandwagon yet by any means, but I would like to see something to settle any fears out there...

Then again, it is just preseason, and we are not seeing everything that we will in the regular season.
Maybe Coach Childress is keeping some things close to his chest...


You took the words out of my mouth/fingers when you jumped in there with Bolly being the one who threw the pass.
Point is that T-will seemed to be adjusting to the pass and was in position to make the catch.

I am looking forward to the Atlanta game for alot of reasons......

1. See us win.....
2. Meet alot of you guys/gals and have some brews and talk crap.
3. Meet some of you who I think I will enjoy talking football with.


You my friend fall in catagory 3.
;D

COJOMAY
08-20-2007, 11:27 AM
I'm not one to say "I told you so." but if you remember in the thread on the post-game NYJ
comments, I mentioned that I saw no need for the Vikes to keep TJ in longer so he could get more passing experience. This was after several PP.O posters thought we should.
My reasoning was that TJ was going up against one of the best defenses in the league every day in practice and why take a chance of him getting hurt against a bunch of 2nd and 3rd string players.
So, along comes this article and guess what Childress has to say in it:

Childress also emphasized the gamelike conditions of his training camp practices.

"I would tell you that we're playing against a pretty good defense on a day-to-day basis [in practice]," Childress said. "You can say, 'Well, you haven't gotten live game snaps.' Really, we're trying to practice at as high a tempo as we can to try to simulate that.

V-Unit
08-20-2007, 12:00 PM
With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.

vike_mike
08-20-2007, 12:06 PM
Get rid of the WCO and things will change.
It is a limited offensive scheme.
I believe that our receivers are better than that.
How did Todd Lowber do or did he get to play at all?

Marrdro
08-20-2007, 12:06 PM
"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.
;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204

snowinapril
08-20-2007, 12:14 PM
There was an article on Chilly's PC yesterday, where he said we (coaches) see the pass in practice, and our D is no slouch to compete against.
Basically haven't had the chance to do it in the game with the Defense scoring.
Chilly also said that TJ will play into the 3rd quarter this week so they can simulate making adjustments at half time.


http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=36890.0

Hopefully TJ will get to get more game time passes for momentum purposes to sustain some drives.

V-Unit
08-20-2007, 01:07 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.

;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


i'm not trying to get you stirred up, I'm agreeing with you. People here are worried because we haven't seen many deep throws. I'm saying don't expect deep passes.

NodakPaul
08-20-2007, 01:31 PM
"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.
;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


i'm not trying to get you stirred up, I'm agreeing with you. People here are worried because we haven't seen many deep throws. I'm saying don't expect deep passes.


I am not expecting many deep passes, but I do believe that we need to move the ball vertically at least occasionally.
Use the short to medium passes primarily, but every now and again you need a 9 route to keep the safeties from crowding the box.

C Mac D
08-20-2007, 01:34 PM
This idea is probably going to get shot down pretty fast... but what about trading Chester Taylor for a WR?

NodakPaul
08-20-2007, 01:35 PM
"C" wrote:


This idea is probably going to get shot down pretty fast... but what about trading Chester Taylor for a WR?


<BANG>
Shot down.

We have a great one-two punch with Chester Taylor and Adrian Peterson.

vike_mike
08-20-2007, 01:41 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.

;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


i'm not trying to get you stirred up, I'm agreeing with you. People here are worried because we haven't seen many deep throws. I'm saying don't expect deep passes.


I am not expecting many deep passes, but I do believe that we need to move the ball vertically at least occasionally.
Use the short to medium passes primarily, but every now and again you need a 9 route to keep the safeties from crowding the box.


Ditto.
I am not expecting us to chuck it down field all of the time, just a vertical passing attack.
The dink and dunk passing attack is going to get you nowhere fast.
What happens if you get into 3-9, 3-10, 3-long situations?
That is what you are going to have to do anyway, throw the ball down the field vertically.
Why not do it regularly anyway.
Sorry Marrdro, I disagree with the WCO.

RK.
08-20-2007, 01:43 PM
TWill is our main deep threat.
Why expose the few deep plays we have in meaningless preseason games?
Who cares if you make long ball touchdowns in preseason.
If a defense gives us the long pass during the season,
Chilly will call for it.
Just because you haven't seen it in preseason doesn't mean we don't have it. ::)
We all know that TJ has the arm to put the ball down field..
Relax
;)

NodakPaul
08-20-2007, 01:44 PM
"vike_mike" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.
;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


i'm not trying to get you stirred up, I'm agreeing with you. People here are worried because we haven't seen many deep throws. I'm saying don't expect deep passes.


I am not expecting many deep passes, but I do believe that we need to move the ball vertically at least occasionally.
Use the short to medium passes primarily, but every now and again you need a 9 route to keep the safeties from crowding the box.


Ditto.
I am not expecting us to chuck it down field all of the time, just a vertical passing attack.
The dink and dunk passing attack is going to get you nowhere fast.
What happens if you get into 3-9, 3-10, 3-long situations?
That is what you are going to have to do anyway, throw the ball down the field vertically.
Why not do it regularly anyway.
Sorry Marrdro, I disagree with the WCO.



I wouldn't go that far.
I do agree with the WCO.
I just don't think that a purist version of it is correct.

NodakPaul
08-20-2007, 01:49 PM
"RK." wrote:


TWill is our main deep threat.
Why expose the few deep plays we have in meaningless preseason games?
Who cares if you make long ball touchdowns in preseason.
If a defense gives us the long pass during the season,
Chilly will call for it.
Just because you haven't seen it in preseason doesn't mean we don't have it. ::)
We all know that TJ has the arm to put the ball down field..
Relax
;)


Nicely put.
Although I would make two corrections.

1) If a defense gives us the long pass during the season,
Bevel will call for it.
2) We all know that TJ has the arm to put the ball down field.. although it would be nice to make sure he has the accuracy

Don't get me wrong.
I am not worried.
I would just like to see it a couple of times before the regular season starts.
Plus it would add to TJack's confidence to know that he can do it against other teams... Not to mention TWill's confidence that he can catch it...

Purple Floyd
08-20-2007, 01:57 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.
;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


I agree with what you have as the core features of the WCO, but you have to admit we are going to have to look different than that to be successful with what we have. For one thing AP is not a prototype WCO back. He is a perfect I formation-line up 8 yards deep-pick the right hole and pound the ball back. I have not seen them sending the WR's,End and RB's out in pass patterns yet and though the offense wasn't on the field much, I saw TJ going back more than 3 steps and it seemed to me more than 5. It also seemed the 2,3,and 4 QB's weren't doing any sort of quick drop,anticipate where the wr will be and put the ball there throws.

Do you feel that they are practicing the plays this way and are keeping them super secret until they unleash them game 1, do you think they are waiting until next year to install them, or are they just adjusting to their talent and this is what we are going to see?

BloodyHorns82
08-20-2007, 02:06 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.
;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


I agree with what you have as the core features of the WCO, but you have to admit we are going to have to look different than that to be successful with what we have. For one thing AP is not a prototype WCO back. He is a perfect I formation-line up 8 yards deep-pick the right hole and pound the ball back. I have not seen them sending the WR's,End and RB's out in pass patterns yet and though the offense wasn't on the field much, I saw TJ going back more than 3 steps and it seemed to me more than 5. It also seemed the 2,3,and 4 QB's weren't doing any sort of quick drop,anticipate where the wr will be and put the ball there throws.

Do you feel that they are practicing the plays this way and are keeping them super secret until they unleash them game 1, do you think they are waiting until next year to install them, or are they just adjusting to their talent and this is what we are going to see?


I find the whole "Keeping things top secret" thing kind of stupid since after the first regular season game the other 31 teams are going to know exactly what your all about anyways.
I think a team might benefit more from practicing those "top secret formations/plays" in actual game scenarios aka pre-season.

Prophet
08-20-2007, 02:11 PM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


I find the whole "Keeping things top secret" thing kind of stupid since after the first regular season game the other 31 teams are going to know exactly what your all about anyways.
I think a team might benefit more from practicing those "top secret formations/plays" in actual game scenarios aka pre-season.


Practicing plays is the least of the concerns in preseason.
It's time to decided who will make up the 53 man roster and to work out some of the fundamentals in execution of the plays.
The score is meaningless.
Every game counts in a 16 game season where injuries are going to occur and teams are going to become more sound as the season rolls on.
Ideally it all comes together by the regular season and the fluff on the team is gone.
Position battles are the focus of watching a preseason game, they should not be watched the same way as a regular season game if you are going to get the maximum entertainment value.

BloodyHorns82
08-20-2007, 02:20 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


I find the whole "Keeping things top secret" thing kind of stupid since after the first regular season game the other 31 teams are going to know exactly what your all about anyways.
I think a team might benefit more from practicing those "top secret formations/plays" in actual game scenarios aka pre-season.


Practicing plays is the least of the concerns in preseason.
It's time to decided who will make up the 53 man roster and to work out some of the fundamentals in execution of the plays.
The score is meaningless.
Every game counts in a 16 game season where injuries are going to occur and teams are going to become more sound as the season rolls on.
Ideally it all comes together by the regular season and the fluff on the team is gone.
Position battles are the focus of watching a preseason game, they should not be watched the same way as a regular season game if you are going to get the maximum entertainment value.


I agree with your assessment of pre-season play...
I like to watch the projected starters, and I enjoy watching the position battles.
The score is meaningless to me...I just like to see good plays on the opponents starting opposition.

I still think the secrets only benefit a team week one though.
(for the most part)
I suppose though that a team needs every advantage they can get in today's NFL...so if keeping secrets for four pre-season games helps win one regular season game than it is all worth it.

Prophet
08-20-2007, 02:23 PM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


I find the whole "Keeping things top secret" thing kind of stupid since after the first regular season game the other 31 teams are going to know exactly what your all about anyways.
I think a team might benefit more from practicing those "top secret formations/plays" in actual game scenarios aka pre-season.


Practicing plays is the least of the concerns in preseason.
It's time to decided who will make up the 53 man roster and to work out some of the fundamentals in execution of the plays.
The score is meaningless.
Every game counts in a 16 game season where injuries are going to occur and teams are going to become more sound as the season rolls on.
Ideally it all comes together by the regular season and the fluff on the team is gone.
Position battles are the focus of watching a preseason game, they should not be watched the same way as a regular season game if you are going to get the maximum entertainment value.


I agree with your assessment of pre-season play...
I like to watch the projected starters, and I enjoy watching the position battles.
The score is meaningless to me...I just like to see good plays on the opponents starting opposition.

I still think the secrets only benefit a team week one though.
(for the most part)
I suppose though that a team needs every advantage they can get in today's NFL...so if keeping secrets for four pre-season games helps win one regular season game than it is all worth it.


Probably is.
There are really very few secrets out there though, with a few exceptions coming from the first few weeks of rookies and first time starters.
Most people know generally what to expect from a given team.
The bullshit plays will win an occasional game, like it did for the Vikings against the Panthers last year, but this ain't college.
The pace is too damn fast and most of the trickery will be smashed down the throat of the clowns that try it.

snowinapril
08-20-2007, 02:28 PM
"RK." wrote:


TWill is our main deep threat.
Why expose the few deep plays we have in meaningless preseason games?
Who cares if you make long ball touchdowns in preseason.
If a defense gives us the long pass during the season,
Chilly will call for it.
Just because you haven't seen it in preseason doesn't mean we don't have it. ::)
We all know that TJ has the arm to put the ball down field..
Relax
;)


We tried once, and the safety came over and knocked it down.
If the ball was thrown more towards the sideline, instead of towards the middle of the field, it would have made it over the safety.
TW was in stride and would have had a TD if the safety didn't knock that ball down.
I think TJ was the QB at the time.

True, we aren't going to run that play every time we pass.
We have to run a balanced offense, even in preseason.

Practicing routes is for practice. Game calling is for the game.

Marrdro
08-20-2007, 03:35 PM
"vike_mike" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.

;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


i'm not trying to get you stirred up, I'm agreeing with you. People here are worried because we haven't seen many deep throws. I'm saying don't expect deep passes.


I am not expecting many deep passes, but I do believe that we need to move the ball vertically at least occasionally.
Use the short to medium passes primarily, but every now and again you need a 9 route to keep the safeties from crowding the box.


Ditto.
I am not expecting us to chuck it down field all of the time, just a vertical passing attack.
The dink and dunk passing attack is going to get you nowhere fast.
What happens if you get into 3-9, 3-10, 3-long situations?
That is what you are going to have to do anyway, throw the ball down the field vertically.
Why not do it regularly anyway.
Sorry Marrdro, I disagree with the WCO.


Take a look at the pass completions that we have had (although limited this year) my friend.
Most of the time a slant route hits the reciever somewere in the 7-15 yard range anyway.

Don't disagree with me, I'm not the head coach, even though I think I should be.... ;D

Seems to me that there have been a few SB trophies but in cases based on the WCO scheme.

Not alot of them based on the Randy Ration concept of chuck it deep everytime.

Nothing better than watching another teams Defense stay on the field while yours rests.

Marrdro
08-20-2007, 03:38 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"RK." wrote:


TWill is our main deep threat.
Why expose the few deep plays we have in meaningless preseason games?
Who cares if you make long ball touchdowns in preseason.
If a defense gives us the long pass during the season,
Chilly will call for it.
Just because you haven't seen it in preseason doesn't mean we don't have it. ::)
We all know that TJ has the arm to put the ball down field..
Relax
;)


Nicely put.
Although I would make two corrections.

1) If a defense gives us the long pass during the season,
Bevel will call for it.
2) We all know that TJ has the arm to put the ball down field.. although it would be nice to make sure he has the accuracy

Don't get me wrong.
I am not worried.
I would just like to see it a couple of times before the regular season starts.
Plus it would add to TJack's confidence to know that he can do it against other teams... Not to mention TWill's confidence that he can catch it...

Just like we saw Bollinger trying to do to T-will in the Jets game.
If it is there because everyone is cheating up to stop the short stuff or runs the deep ball will show its ugly head.

Marrdro
08-20-2007, 03:41 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.

;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


I agree with what you have as the core features of the WCO, but you have to admit we are going to have to look different than that to be successful with what we have. For one thing AP is not a prototype WCO back. He is a perfect I formation-line up 8 yards deep-pick the right hole and pound the ball back. I have not seen them sending the WR's,End and RB's out in pass patterns yet and though the offense wasn't on the field much, I saw TJ going back more than 3 steps and it seemed to me more than 5. It also seemed the 2,3,and 4 QB's weren't doing any sort of quick drop,anticipate where the wr will be and put the ball there throws.

Do you feel that they are practicing the plays this way and are keeping them super secret until they unleash them game 1, do you think they are waiting until next year to install them, or are they just adjusting to their talent and this is what we are going to see?

Uffda, again with the I formation issue.

I gave you a prime example in another thread about this but you must have missed it.
I don't have time to search right away, however, if you look up in advance search two key words Craig and Rathman under Marrdro you will see a good link and quotes from Tom on this very issue.

The 49'rs ran a predominantly I back formation with Roger Craig and Tom Rathman and not a split back set like you aluded to in that thread.

Purple Floyd
08-20-2007, 03:50 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.
;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


I agree with what you have as the core features of the WCO, but you have to admit we are going to have to look different than that to be successful with what we have. For one thing AP is not a prototype WCO back. He is a perfect I formation-line up 8 yards deep-pick the right hole and pound the ball back. I have not seen them sending the WR's,End and RB's out in pass patterns yet and though the offense wasn't on the field much, I saw TJ going back more than 3 steps and it seemed to me more than 5. It also seemed the 2,3,and 4 QB's weren't doing any sort of quick drop,anticipate where the wr will be and put the ball there throws.

Do you feel that they are practicing the plays this way and are keeping them super secret until they unleash them game 1, do you think they are waiting until next year to install them, or are they just adjusting to their talent and this is what we are going to see?

Uffda, again with the I formation issue.

I gave you a prime example in another thread about this but you must have missed it.
I don't have time to search right away, however, if you look up in advance search two key words Craig and Rathman under Marrdro you will see a good link and quotes from Tom on this very issue.

The 49'rs ran a predominantly I back formation with Roger Craig and Tom Rathman and not a split back set like you aluded to in that thread.




That was later into the niners regime and Walsh was adjusting his scheme to fit his talent. ;) Look back at what the offense looked like when he put it together in Cincy and his first few years in SF and you may find something different.;D


BTW

Any comments on the quick 3 step drops, precision timing passes, passing on first down and 5 receivers stretching the field horizontally?
;D

Just think, the season is almost here and we can get on to the real nutz and boltz
;D ;D

cajunvike
08-20-2007, 03:55 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:


With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.

;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


I agree with what you have as the core features of the WCO, but you have to admit we are going to have to look different than that to be successful with what we have. For one thing AP is not a prototype WCO back. He is a perfect I formation-line up 8 yards deep-pick the right hole and pound the ball back. I have not seen them sending the WR's,End and RB's out in pass patterns yet and though the offense wasn't on the field much, I saw TJ going back more than 3 steps and it seemed to me more than 5. It also seemed the 2,3,and 4 QB's weren't doing any sort of quick drop,anticipate where the wr will be and put the ball there throws.

Do you feel that they are practicing the plays this way and are keeping them super secret until they unleash them game 1, do you think they are waiting until next year to install them, or are they just adjusting to their talent and this is what we are going to see?

Uffda, again with the I formation issue.

I gave you a prime example in another thread about this but you must have missed it.
I don't have time to search right away, however, if you look up in advance search two key words Craig and Rathman under Marrdro you will see a good link and quotes from Tom on this very issue.

The 49'rs ran a predominantly I back formation with Roger Craig and Tom Rathman and not a split back set like you aluded to in that thread.




That was later into the niners regime and Walsh was adjusting his scheme to fit his talent. ;) Look back at what the offense looked like when he put it together in Cincy and his first few years in SF and you may find something different.;D


BTW

Any comments on the quick 3 step drops, precision timing passes, passing on first down and 5 receivers stretching the field horizontally?

;D

Just think, the season is almost here and we can get on to the real nutz and boltz
;D ;D


The SMARTEST coaches adjust their base schemes to the talent that they have...trust that Childress will fit AP's unique talents into his KAO!

C Mac D
08-20-2007, 03:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2_VaO43f4Y

Been watching this with a huge grin on my face.

Purple Floyd
08-20-2007, 04:02 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"V" wrote:
[quote]
With respect to a deep passing threat, there is a good chance we don't establish one this year. We're just going to have to rely on YAC and a strong running game. We are just going to have to fight fire with fire when they stack the box.

I'm not saying we won't see deep throws or streak/seam routes, I just don't think we have the players to make it effective.

Last year we disregarded the vanilla offense in preseason because, well it was preseason. Nothing changed when the real season began. This year I'm not making the same mistake. I think we will see the same style of offense we have seen now. I'm just hoping we run the ball as much as possible.


Your just trying to get me stirred up again on the scheme aren't ya.
;D


Core features of the West Coast philosophy are:

QB makes pre and post-snap reads and judges where the ball should go.
All five WRs run patterns (ie. no TE or RB blocking).
Passing game attacks defense within the short-medium range (up to 15 yards).
Receiver's skill relied on to create YAC and break big plays.
Force defense to react to passing game: this opens up the run.
Quick drop (generally 3-5 step, though the 7 step can be used) by QB used to minimize sacks.
Multiple formations, shifts and motions to create mismatches.
QBs job is to find the open receiver and deliver the ball by progressing through his reads.
Triangle passing (strongside, weakside and middle).





http://www.kffl.com/article.php/1790/204


I agree with what you have as the core features of the WCO, but you have to admit we are going to have to look different than that to be successful with what we have. For one thing AP is not a prototype WCO back. He is a perfect I formation-line up 8 yards deep-pick the right hole and pound the ball back. I have not seen them sending the WR's,End and RB's out in pass patterns yet and though the offense wasn't on the field much, I saw TJ going back more than 3 steps and it seemed to me more than 5. It also seemed the 2,3,and 4 QB's weren't doing any sort of quick drop,anticipate where the wr will be and put the ball there throws.

Do you feel that they are practicing the plays this way and are keeping them super secret until they unleash them game 1, do you think they are waiting until next year to install them, or are they just adjusting to their talent and this is what we are going to see?

Uffda, again with the I formation issue.

I gave you a prime example in another thread about this but you must have missed it.
I don't have time to search right away, however, if you look up in advance search two key words Craig and Rathman under Marrdro you will see a good link and quotes from Tom on this very issue.

The 49'rs ran a predominantly I back formation with Roger Craig and Tom Rathman and not a split back set like you aluded to in that thread.


[quote]

Marr buddy

(And BTW, I really could care less if we run the wishbone if it works ( Actually......)) And my basis for talking about the split back come from reading as much as I can to understand it like you are. This is what I was referring to, taken from a site explaining the WCO. Maybe these articles are erroneous,in which case I am wrong.


Pulled from an article:

The initial Walsh concept was for a standard pro-set offense -- two backs in split alignment, two wide receivers and a tight end -- designed to get the ball quickly from the quarterback to the skill-position players. The idea was to release all five of the eligible receivers at the same time, relying on three- and five-step drops by the quarterback to compensate for most blocking breakdowns, and to throw the ball crisply and on the break.

UDV

Marrdro
08-21-2007, 07:19 AM
Marr buddy

(And BTW, I really could care less if we run the wishbone if it works ( Actually......)) And my basis for talking about the split back come from reading as much as I can to understand it like you are. This is what I was referring to, taken from a site explaining the WCO. Maybe these articles are erroneous,in which case I am wrong.


Pulled from an article:

The initial Walsh concept was for a standard pro-set offense -- two backs in split alignment, two wide receivers and a tight end -- designed to get the ball quickly from the quarterback to the skill-position players. The idea was to release all five of the eligible receivers at the same time, relying on three- and five-step drops by the quarterback to compensate for most blocking breakdowns, and to throw the ball crisply and on the break.

UDV

The only thing I find wrong with that quote is that Walsh's base package in his sytem didn't rely on a split back set but rather an I formation (i.e. Rathman/Craig).
Other than that it is pretty accurate at least from my vantage point.

NFLN re-aired a great piece during the week of Walsh's passing that showed him walking through the basics of the 3, 5 and 7 step drops used by the QB along with the routes ran by RB's, TE's and WR's in executing the WCO.
Very interesting if you ever get a chance to watch it.
;D