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singersp
08-16-2007, 06:16 AM
Thursday, August 16, 2007

A new No. 84 takes the field for the Vikings (http://www.wctrib.com/ap/index.cfm?page=view&id=D8R1POH80&CFID=48203180&CFTOKEN=51718247&jsessionid=883027e3b598348234a7)

By JON KRAWCZYNSKI AP Sports Writer
The Associated Press - Thursday, August 16, 2007

MANKATO, Minn.

Stephen Spach is one brave son of a gun...

singersp
08-16-2007, 06:41 AM
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/singersp82759/TC_2007/100_0315.jpg

singersp
08-16-2007, 06:42 AM
I know Webby got a little excited to see #84 take the field once again.
;D

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/singersp82759/TC_2007/Webby2.jpg

cogitans
08-16-2007, 06:51 AM
I've said it before and I'd say it again.

It were about time someone took on a jersey with that number.

I applaud Spach

singersp
08-16-2007, 07:08 AM
"cogitans" wrote:


I've said it before and I'd say it again.

It were about time someone took on a jersey with that number.

I applaud Spach


You just wait. Someone will be complaining that someone else is wearing #84 & that they are not good enough to wear it.

Marrdro
08-16-2007, 07:26 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


I've said it before and I'd say it again.

It were about time someone took on a jersey with that number.

I applaud Spach


You just wait. Someone will be complaining that someone else is wearing #84 & that they are not good enough to wear it.

Your both right.
Good on ya Spach and you Moss sniffers, face it, he's goneeeeeeee
;D

I might just have to buy that number if he makes the team.
Maybe I can sew a new name over one of my many Moss 84's.
;D

COJOMAY
08-16-2007, 07:29 AM
"singersp" wrote:


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/singersp82759/TC_2007/100_0315.jpg

Picture makes me wonder if he has the balls for it!
;D

ejmat
08-16-2007, 07:46 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


I've said it before and I'd say it again.

It were about time someone took on a jersey with that number.

I applaud Spach


You just wait. Someone will be complaining that someone else is wearing #84 & that they are not good enough to wear it.

Your both right.
Good on ya Spach and you Moss sniffers, face it, he's goneeeeeeee

;D

I might just have to buy that number if he makes the team.
Maybe I can sew a new name over one of my many Moss 84's.

;D



I knew I kept my Moss jerseys for a reason.

VKG4LFE
08-16-2007, 01:18 PM
He shouldn't be wearing it. Sorry peeps.

ItalianStallion
08-16-2007, 01:22 PM
IMO, that number should be retired.

ejmat
08-16-2007, 01:23 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:


He shouldn't be wearing it. Sorry peeps.


Wy shouldn't he be wearing it?
As far as I know Moss' # hasn't been retired.

VKG4LFE
08-16-2007, 01:27 PM
I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.

ejmat
08-16-2007, 01:33 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:


I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.


Nothing wrong with your opinion.
He did some great things for this team.
Unfortunately, because of his off the field issues (and some on the field) some people don't really like Moss and don't think he deserves it.
Personally I'm torn.
I like Moss and miss him being on the team.
However, he isn't and hasn't been for over 2 years now.
He played for the Vikings 7 years but I'm not sure they will ever retire his jersey for that.
I could be wrong and I have nothing to back it up but it's just my opinion.
If they do great.
If they don't, oh well.

VKG4LFE
08-16-2007, 01:40 PM
Yeah, I find it highly unlikely that they will retire his jersey since he left kind of in a bad way, but at least we had a great 7 years with him and he had one helluva last game with us!

Prophet
08-16-2007, 01:49 PM
Good for him.
Just picturing the Moss crotch sniffers crying in their corners made my day.
Go Spach!

Zeus
08-16-2007, 01:52 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:


I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.


If #81 isn't retired, then there's no frigging way that #84 should be.

#81 was worn by Anthony Carter, WR
Minnesota stats:
478 catches, 7636 yards (15.97 YPC), 52 TDs
and by Carl Eller, DE.

As a Viking, Moss caught 574 balls for 9142 yards (15.92 YPC) and 90 TDs.
On TDs, he stands above AC.
For the rest of it, not so much.


=Z=

Marrdro
08-16-2007, 01:54 PM
Let me prefice this post with a statement.
I like Randy.
I loved what he could do on the field.
I love to watch what the opposing D's did to stop him, however, I do not think that his number should be retired.

The way I look at it, regarding his number, is that if the Vikes retired it then I believe it would belittle what these guys achieved or did for thier team.

Numbers Retired
10 Fran Tarkenton
53 Mick Tingelhoff
70 Jim Marshall
77 Korey Stringer
80 Cris Carter
88 Alan Page

Randy - 574 Receptions - 9,142yds - 90 TDs while a Viking.

Sure his numbers are better than say Ahmad Rashad or Anthony Carter.
Additionally, he probably had more flare than a Chuck Foreman or Robert Smith but do you really think that what he did for the team vice just putting up numbers is worth getting a jersey retired?

Again, I really liked having him on the team, but just don't think retiring his number is warranted when you consider everything as a package.

NodakPaul
08-16-2007, 01:59 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"VKG4LFE" wrote:


I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.


If #81 isn't retired, then there's no frigging way that #84 should be.

=Z=


If Randy wins a superbowl with NE, and then asks to come back to Minnesota for training camp just to retire as a Viking, and then makes the HoF... Then we can retire it. ;)

vikingivan
08-16-2007, 02:02 PM
#22 should be retired.
Paul Krause was inducted into the HOF in 1998.
He holds the NFL record with 81 interceptions.
Moss had some great seasons, but he does not have near the qualifications of Krause.

PurpleManiac
08-16-2007, 02:36 PM
And there you have it folks. The scapegoat for '07's failure has been self picked.
:)

ItalianStallion
08-16-2007, 03:13 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:


#22 should be retired.
Paul Krause was inducted into the HOF in 1998.
He holds the NFL record with 81 interceptions.
Moss had some great seasons, but he does not have near the qualifications of Krause.


It's not a competition, it's based on individual merit.

Numbers indicate production, production indicates talent and greatness, and if we can't retire the number of a player who had arguably the most productive 7 years as a WR for a team in NFL history, then why would we?

IMO A player's number should be retired because there will never be a player to wear that number again who could match the impact, memory or production that the original player had on the team.
I think the fact no other player has worn the number since is indicative of the impact he had on this team.

Zeus
08-16-2007, 03:16 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


#22 should be retired.
Paul Krause was inducted into the HOF in 1998.
He holds the NFL record with 81 interceptions.
Moss had some great seasons, but he does not have near the qualifications of Krause.


It's not a competition, it's based on individual merit.

Numbers indicate production, production indicates talent and greatness, and if we can't retire the number of a player who had arguably the most productive 7 years as a WR for a team in NFL history, then why would we?

IMO A player's number should be retired because there will never be a player to wear that number again who could match the impact, memory or production that the original player had on the team.
I think the fact no other player has worn the number since is indicative of the impact he had on this team.


I think it's more likely that no one wanted to wear it because they would face the inevitable questions about trying to replace Moss, not because of any reverence to his success wearing it.

=Z=

ItalianStallion
08-16-2007, 03:23 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


#22 should be retired.
Paul Krause was inducted into the HOF in 1998.
He holds the NFL record with 81 interceptions.
Moss had some great seasons, but he does not have near the qualifications of Krause.


It's not a competition, it's based on individual merit.

Numbers indicate production, production indicates talent and greatness, and if we can't retire the number of a player who had arguably the most productive 7 years as a WR for a team in NFL history, then why would we?

IMO A player's number should be retired because there will never be a player to wear that number again who could match the impact, memory or production that the original player had on the team.
I think the fact no other player has worn the number since is indicative of the impact he had on this team.


I think it's more likely that no one wanted to wear it because they would face the inevitable questions about trying to replace Moss, not because of any reverence to his success wearing it.

=Z=


To me, the fact that he's regarded as irreplaceable shows reverance to his success.

Prophet
08-16-2007, 03:24 PM
This thread wouldn't be complete without one of these.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RPM40/ppo/crotchdogJPG.jpg

Zeus
08-16-2007, 03:36 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"vikingivan" wrote:


#22 should be retired.
Paul Krause was inducted into the HOF in 1998.
He holds the NFL record with 81 interceptions.
Moss had some great seasons, but he does not have near the qualifications of Krause.


It's not a competition, it's based on individual merit.

Numbers indicate production, production indicates talent and greatness, and if we can't retire the number of a player who had arguably the most productive 7 years as a WR for a team in NFL history, then why would we?

IMO A player's number should be retired because there will never be a player to wear that number again who could match the impact, memory or production that the original player had on the team.
I think the fact no other player has worn the number since is indicative of the impact he had on this team.


I think it's more likely that no one wanted to wear it because they would face the inevitable questions about trying to replace Moss, not because of any reverence to his success wearing it.


To me, the fact that he's regarded as irreplaceable shows reverance to his success.


Who regards him as irreplaceable?


And it's only been two seasons and now some backup TE with little-to-no chance to make the club has the number.
That doesn't sound like reverence, does it?

=Z=

ItalianStallion
08-16-2007, 03:36 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


This thread wouldn't be complete without one of these.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RPM40/ppo/crotchdogJPG.jpg


lol, you can fall back on that tired old argument if you want.

Ignoring the facts while labeling posters is excellent for debate, is there one for people who play Madden (thus must know nothing about football) too?

I mean
it's not like old timer don't ride the jocks of players like Tarkenton, Krause, Foreman etc. who played against inferior athletes.
::)

ItalianStallion
08-16-2007, 03:43 PM
"Zeus" wrote:



Who regards him as irreplaceable?


And it's only been two seasons and now some backup TE with little-to-no chance to make the club has the number.
That doesn't sound like reverence, does it?

=Z=


Anyone who isn't ignorant of his unique atheltic ability and record setting seasons with this team....

Hell we've barely been able to cumulatively replace his production in this offense the past couple years...

The fact that players have avoided his number like the plague, and a TE who cluelessly only found out afterwards shows other people don't want to be labeled as having to live up to the expectations people had for a player with that number.

ejmat
08-16-2007, 03:44 PM
Another reason that no one has worn it maybe that no one that has been on the Vikings since he left ever wore it prior.
People get the numbers they like to wear.
Also, a lot of WRs are changing to numbers in the teens.
I honestly don't think it has anything to do with Randy Moss wearing it previsouly.

Prophet
08-16-2007, 03:44 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


This thread wouldn't be complete without one of these.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RPM40/ppo/crotchdogJPG.jpg


lol, you can fall back on that tired old argument if you want.

Ignoring the facts while labeling posters is excellent for debate, is there one for people who play Madden (thus must know nothing about football) too?


It isn't complete without it is all I'm saying.
Also, if there weren't so many idiots that can't differentiate between Madden and reality it wouldn't even be a topic.

There is no doubt that Moss started off his career strong.
He has been a middle-of-the-road receiver at best the last couple years in Oakland.
Plenty of excuses can be made for him.
We'll see how he finishes off his career.

His jersey may be retired someday, we'll see.
I can see arguments in either direction.

I applaud Spach for wearing the jersey.
It will bring out the fans of an individual player over the team and watching them whine and complain about it is entertaining.
Poor Randy, the hero, his number is being worn by an unknown.
It's nice to see people care about that.
The Moss crotch sniffers have helped Randy earn his place of in the 'hall of nauseating former Vikings players'.
Yet another thread about Randy in the Vikings forum when he hasn't been a part of the team for years.

Go Spach!
Fuck Randy Moss.

cajunvike
08-16-2007, 03:45 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"VKG4LFE" wrote:


I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.


If #81 isn't retired, then there's no frigging way that #84 should be.

=Z=


If Randy wins a superbowl with NE, and then asks to come back to Minnesota for training camp just to retire as a Viking, and then makes the HoF... Then we can retire it. ;)


HELL NO!!!!

thevikingfan
08-16-2007, 03:47 PM
Lol i remember when i was watching the rams vikes game the announcer said."and a catch by stepehen "dont call me doctor" spoch" and then he said live long and prosper.They must have been huge fans of star treck or something

Mr Anderson
08-16-2007, 03:56 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"VKG4LFE" wrote:


I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.


If #81 isn't retired, then there's no frigging way that #84 should be.

#81 was worn by Anthony Carter, WR
Minnesota stats:
478 catches, 7636 yards (15.97 YPC), 52 TDs
and by Carl Eller, DE.

As a Viking, Moss caught 574 balls for 9142 yards (15.92 YPC) and 90 TDs.
On TDs, he stands above AC.
For the rest of it, not so much.


=Z=


What about the hundred more receptions and 1500 more yards?.... and in four fewer seasons.

Carter had three years of 1000 yards are more and never had more than 8 touchdowns in a single season.

Moss had well over 1000 yards in the first 6 of his 7 seasons with us and would have had 1000 in his 7th had he not only played 11 games. He caught more than 10 TDs all but one season.

Randy Moss did much more, in far less time.

Zeus, usually your arguments hold some weight, but this is just absurd, there's absolutely no comparison between Anthony Carter and Randy Moss. Anthony Carter was a good receiver, but Moss was a spectacular receiver.

If anything, 81 should be retired for Eller... definitely not Carter.



You can all call me a crotch-sniffer if you want, but I'm right on this one and it's obvious.

Prophet
08-16-2007, 03:57 PM
"Mr" wrote:


...If anything, 81 should be retired for Eller... definitely not Carter.


I would agree with that, crotch sniffer.

Zeus
08-16-2007, 04:02 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"VKG4LFE" wrote:


I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.


If #81 isn't retired, then there's no frigging way that #84 should be.

#81 was worn by Anthony Carter, WR
Minnesota stats:
478 catches, 7636 yards (15.97 YPC), 52 TDs
and by Carl Eller, DE.

As a Viking, Moss caught 574 balls for 9142 yards (15.92 YPC) and 90 TDs.
On TDs, he stands above AC.
For the rest of it, not so much.


=Z=


What about the hundred more receptions and 1500 more yards?.... and in four fewer seasons.

Carter had three years of 1000 yards are more and never had more than 8 touchdowns in a single season.

Moss had well over 1000 yards in the first 6 of his 7 seasons with us and would have had 1000 in his 7th had he not only played 11 games. He caught more than 10 TDs all but one season.

Randy Moss did much more, in far less time.

Zeus, usually your arguments hold some weight, but this is just absurd, there's absolutely no comparison between Anthony Carter and Randy Moss. Anthony Carter was a good receiver, but Moss was a spectacular receiver.

If anything, 81 should be retired for Eller... definitely not Carter.

You can all call me a crotch-sniffer if you want, but I'm right on this one and it's obvious.


I was never trying to directly relate ONLY AC to Randy.
Since they are both WRs, I thought the statistical comparison was relevant.
I do think that you are discounting how much more prevalent the passing game is nowadays, vs. the late 70s and early 80s when AC was playing.

I *also* brought up Eller.
But the defensive stats for him are non-existant on the web (no sack totals were kept) so I was not able to produce anything for comparison.

81 should have been retired for Carl Eller many many many years ago.

=Z=

ItalianStallion
08-16-2007, 04:08 PM
It isn't complete without it is all I'm saying.
Also, if there weren't so many idiots that can't differentiate between Madden and reality it wouldn't even be a topic.

There is no doubt that Moss started off his career strong.
He has been a middle-of-the-road receiver at best the last couple years in Oakland.
Plenty of excuses can be made for him.
We'll see how he finishes off his career.

His jersey may be retired someday, we'll see.
I can see arguments in either direction.

I applaud Spach for wearing the jersey.
It will bring out the fans of an individual player over the team and watching them whine and complain about it is entertaining.
Poor Randy, the hero, his number is being worn by an unknown.
It's nice to see people care about that.
The Moss crotch sniffers have helped Randy earn his place of in the 'hall of nauseating former Vikings players'.
Yet another thread about Randy in the Vikings forum when he hasn't been a part of the team for years.

Go Spach!
floop Randy Moss.


The only reason he is nauseating is because you have to hear about him so often on the internet, lol

It just seems like people jumped on the "He's not on our team anymore, so who gives a sh*t about him" bandwagon as a kneejerk reaction to all the posters who thought the apocalypse was coming because he was gone.
The same people who cheered him on when he was OROY, set rookie records, was the first player in NFL history to start his career with 6 straight 1000+ yards season and was the first player in NFL history to average over 100yards and 1TD a game in a season.
Suddenly all those minor transgressions (by todays stripper beating, bouncer shooting, coke kilo selling, dogfighting standards) like walking off with 2 seconds left, squirting water bottles, doing illegal turns etc. that we all secretely grumbled about but defended (because he WAS our offense) became much bigger deals.

In the end, if it wasn't for the tackle against New Orleans that partially tore his hamstring, he'd probably still be a Viking.
People praised Randy because he always produced, and as soon as that dropped for a season due to injuries it seems like everyone suddenly became so self-righteous.

Marrdro
08-16-2007, 04:09 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"VKG4LFE" wrote:


I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.


If #81 isn't retired, then there's no frigging way that #84 should be.

#81 was worn by Anthony Carter, WR
Minnesota stats:
478 catches, 7636 yards (15.97 YPC), 52 TDs
and by Carl Eller, DE.

As a Viking, Moss caught 574 balls for 9142 yards (15.92 YPC) and 90 TDs.
On TDs, he stands above AC.
For the rest of it, not so much.


=Z=


What about the hundred more receptions and 1500 more yards?.... and in four fewer seasons.

Carter had three years of 1000 yards are more and never had more than 8 touchdowns in a single season.

Moss had well over 1000 yards in the first 6 of his 7 seasons with us and would have had 1000 in his 7th had he not only played 11 games. He caught more than 10 TDs all but one season.

Randy Moss did much more, in far less time.

Zeus, usually your arguments hold some weight, but this is just absurd, there's absolutely no comparison between Anthony Carter and Randy Moss. Anthony Carter was a good receiver, but Moss was a spectacular receiver.

If anything, 81 should be retired for Eller... definitely not Carter.

You can all call me a crotch-sniffer if you want, but I'm right on this one and it's obvious.


Mr. A.
You are missing the point as well.
Getting your number retired is based on a heck of a lot more than numbers.
Take a look at my post.
Its about your body of work as a whole.
Randy's just doesn't match up to what some of the greats have done for this team.

Let me try to put it another way.........
What are Koreys numbers????????


Let me prefice this post with a statement.
I like Randy.
I loved what he could do on the field.
I love to watch what the opposing D's did to stop him, however, I do not think that his number should be retired.

The way I look at it, regarding his number, is that if the Vikes retired it then I believe it would belittle what these guys achieved or did for thier team.

Numbers Retired
10 Fran Tarkenton
53 Mick Tingelhoff
70 Jim Marshall
77 Korey Stringer
80 Cris Carter
88 Alan Page

Randy - 574 Receptions - 9,142yds - 90 TDs while a Viking.

Sure his numbers are better than say Ahmad Rashad or Anthony Carter.
Additionally, he probably had more flare than a Chuck Foreman or Robert Smith but do you really think that what he did for the team vice just putting up numbers is worth getting a jersey retired?

Again, I really liked having him on the team, but just don't think retiring his number is warranted when you consider everything as a package.

cajunvike
08-16-2007, 04:10 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:






It isn't complete without it is all I'm saying.
Also, if there weren't so many idiots that can't differentiate between Madden and reality it wouldn't even be a topic.

There is no doubt that Moss started off his career strong.
He has been a middle-of-the-road receiver at best the last couple years in Oakland.
Plenty of excuses can be made for him.
We'll see how he finishes off his career.

His jersey may be retired someday, we'll see.
I can see arguments in either direction.

I applaud Spach for wearing the jersey.
It will bring out the fans of an individual player over the team and watching them whine and complain about it is entertaining.
Poor Randy, the hero, his number is being worn by an unknown.
It's nice to see people care about that.
The Moss crotch sniffers have helped Randy earn his place of in the 'hall of nauseating former Vikings players'.
Yet another thread about Randy in the Vikings forum when he hasn't been a part of the team for years.

Go Spach!
floop Randy Moss.


The only reason he is nauseating is because you have to hear about him so often on the internet, lol

It just seems like people jumped on the "He's not on our team anymore, so who gives a sh*t about him" bandwagon as a kneejerk reaction to all the posters who thought the apocalypse was coming because he was gone.
The same people who cheered him on when he was OROY, set rookie records, was the first player in NFL history to start his career with 6 straight 1000+ yards season and was the first player in NFL history to average over 100yards and 1TD a game in a season.
Suddenly all those minor transgressions (by todays stripper beating, bouncer shooting, coke kilo selling, dogfighting standards) like walking off with 2 seconds left, squirting water bottles, doing illegal turns etc. that we all secretely grumbled about but defended (because he WAS our offense) became much bigger deals.

In the end, if it wasn't for the tackle against New Orleans that partially tore his hamstring, he'd probably still be a Viking.
People praised Randy because he always produced, and as soon as that dropped for a season due to injuries it seems like everyone suddenly became so self-righteous.


Nope....I just hate him now because he's a Putzie!

ItalianStallion
08-16-2007, 04:22 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


Mr. A.
You are missing the point as well.
Getting your number retired is based on a heck of a lot more than numbers.
Take a look at my post.
Its about your body of work as a whole.
Randy's just doesn't match up to what some of the greats have done for this team.
Let me try to put it another way.........
What are Koreys numbers????????


That's such a vague argument.
What better indicator is there of a players "work as a whole" than his career production?

IMO, Korey's number should never have been retired, I don't mean to offend anyone or tarnish his memory, but I feel his number was retired because of the tragedy itself (and possibly guilt felt by the organization) not because of the type of player Korey was (though he was good).
Can you honestly say someone like Korey deserves his number retired more than someone like Randall McDaniel or John Randle based on his "work as a whole"?

Marrdro
08-16-2007, 04:29 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Mr. A.
You are missing the point as well.
Getting your number retired is based on a heck of a lot more than numbers.
Take a look at my post.
Its about your body of work as a whole.
Randy's just doesn't match up to what some of the greats have done for this team.
Let me try to put it another way.........
What are Koreys numbers????????


That's such a vague argument.
What better indicator is there of a players "work as a whole" than his career production?

IMO, Korey's number should never have been retired, I don't mean to offend anyone or tarnish his memory, but I feel his number was retired because of the tragedy itself (and possibly guilt felt by the organization) not because of the type of player Korey was (though he was good).
Can you honestly say someone like Korey deserves his number retired more than someone like Randall McDaniel or John Randle based on his "work as a whole"?

No and now you see my point.
Randy never gave anything to this org like any of those people did.
He just caught a deep ball more than anybody else.
Heck he even left the field once before the game was over, he admitted he took plays off, he couldn't/wouldn't block during running plays........

As for Big K, think what you will (Sure he accepted risk by taking the meds he was taking), but that man died trying to make the team.


Would Randy do that?

Mr Anderson
08-16-2007, 04:29 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"VKG4LFE" wrote:


I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.


If #81 isn't retired, then there's no frigging way that #84 should be.

#81 was worn by Anthony Carter, WR
Minnesota stats:
478 catches, 7636 yards (15.97 YPC), 52 TDs
and by Carl Eller, DE.

As a Viking, Moss caught 574 balls for 9142 yards (15.92 YPC) and 90 TDs.
On TDs, he stands above AC.
For the rest of it, not so much.


=Z=


What about the hundred more receptions and 1500 more yards?.... and in four fewer seasons.

Carter had three years of 1000 yards are more and never had more than 8 touchdowns in a single season.

Moss had well over 1000 yards in the first 6 of his 7 seasons with us and would have had 1000 in his 7th had he not only played 11 games. He caught more than 10 TDs all but one season.

Randy Moss did much more, in far less time.

Zeus, usually your arguments hold some weight, but this is just absurd, there's absolutely no comparison between Anthony Carter and Randy Moss. Anthony Carter was a good receiver, but Moss was a spectacular receiver.

If anything, 81 should be retired for Eller... definitely not Carter.

You can all call me a crotch-sniffer if you want, but I'm right on this one and it's obvious.


I was never trying to directly relate ONLY AC to Randy.
Since they are both WRs, I thought the statistical comparison was relevant.
I do think that you are discounting how much more prevalent the passing game is nowadays, vs. the late 70s and early 80s when AC was playing.

I *also* brought up Eller.
But the defensive stats for him are non-existant on the web (no sack totals were kept) so I was not able to produce anything for comparison.

81 should have been retired for Carl Eller many many many years ago.

=Z=


Anthony Carter played 85-95, the passing game was plenty prevalent in those years. Names like Marino, Elway, Montana, Rice, Young, Carter(Cris, even though his career didnt take the upswing until like 93), as well as many other great QBs and WRs come to mind from those years.

I completely agree about Eller.


And Marrdro, that's entirely different. It's not even right to bring the Stringer argument into this situation. Anyone who tries to argue against that, which I'm not going to, but could; can not win.

Marrdro
08-16-2007, 04:31 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"VKG4LFE" wrote:


I know, but I think it should be retired. I know that doesn't sit well with many people around here, but just my opinion.


If #81 isn't retired, then there's no frigging way that #84 should be.

#81 was worn by Anthony Carter, WR
Minnesota stats:
478 catches, 7636 yards (15.97 YPC), 52 TDs
and by Carl Eller, DE.

As a Viking, Moss caught 574 balls for 9142 yards (15.92 YPC) and 90 TDs.
On TDs, he stands above AC.
For the rest of it, not so much.


=Z=


What about the hundred more receptions and 1500 more yards?.... and in four fewer seasons.

Carter had three years of 1000 yards are more and never had more than 8 touchdowns in a single season.

Moss had well over 1000 yards in the first 6 of his 7 seasons with us and would have had 1000 in his 7th had he not only played 11 games. He caught more than 10 TDs all but one season.

Randy Moss did much more, in far less time.

Zeus, usually your arguments hold some weight, but this is just absurd, there's absolutely no comparison between Anthony Carter and Randy Moss. Anthony Carter was a good receiver, but Moss was a spectacular receiver.

If anything, 81 should be retired for Eller... definitely not Carter.

You can all call me a crotch-sniffer if you want, but I'm right on this one and it's obvious.


I was never trying to directly relate ONLY AC to Randy.
Since they are both WRs, I thought the statistical comparison was relevant.
I do think that you are discounting how much more prevalent the passing game is nowadays, vs. the late 70s and early 80s when AC was playing.

I *also* brought up Eller.
But the defensive stats for him are non-existant on the web (no sack totals were kept) so I was not able to produce anything for comparison.

81 should have been retired for Carl Eller many many many years ago.

=Z=


Anthony Carter played 85-95, the passing game was plenty prevalent in those years. Names like Marino, Elway, Montana, Rice, Young, Carter(Cris, even though his career didnt take the upswing until like 93), as well as many other great QBs and WRs come to mind from those years.

I completely agree about Eller.


And Marrdro, that's entirely different. It's not even right to bring the Stringer argument into this situation. Anyone who tries to argue against that, which I'm not going to, but could; can not win.

But thats my point Mr. A and I don't think it is different, just drastic the effort that man put forth to make a team.
All of these men and many more gave a heck of alot more for this team than Randy did.
Again, I really like the guy, but sure don't believe he falls into that catagory.

ItalianStallion
08-16-2007, 04:42 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


No and now you see my point.
Randy never gave anything to this org like any of those people did.
He just caught a deep ball more than anybody else.
Heck he even left the field once before the game was over, he admitted he took plays off, he couldn't/wouldn't block during running plays........

As for Big K, think what you will (Sure he accepted risk by taking the meds he was taking), but that man died trying to make the team.


Would Randy do that?


No I don't see your point, I was making the argument that Randle would be more deserving because of 7 Pro Bowls, 137.5 Career sack (5th all time, #1 all time as a DT, 8 seasons with 10+ sacks) and McDaniel because he's widely regarded as one of the best OL of all time (and went to 12 Pro Bowls, which is ridiculous).

Randy did as much as either to help win games, and did arguably more than any other WR would be capable of.
Don't try to tell me that the great WRs never took plays off, or ran out of bounds instead of fighting for yards (which Jerry Rice was notorious for), or were excellent run blockers, because it wouldn't be true.
They just weren't dumb enough to tell the media.

He played injured as much as anyone else...and still produced more than most healthy players.
He singlehandedly beat GB in the playoffs, on one leg.

Showing up to camp out of shape and using stimulants, to me, doesn't constitute a role model for effort, but rather an example of trying to cut corners when others put effort in their offseasons.
A player who runs and works out every day during the offseason does more to make the team than someone who doesn't.
Korey's accident was a tragedy that hit everyone hard, but don't delude yourself into thinking it wasn't preventable.

Marrdro
08-16-2007, 06:58 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


No and now you see my point.
Randy never gave anything to this org like any of those people did.
He just caught a deep ball more than anybody else.
Heck he even left the field once before the game was over, he admitted he took plays off, he couldn't/wouldn't block during running plays........

As for Big K, think what you will (Sure he accepted risk by taking the meds he was taking), but that man died trying to make the team.


Would Randy do that?


No I don't see your point, I was making the argument that Randle would be more deserving because of 7 Pro Bowls, 137.5 Career sack (5th all time, #1 all time as a DT, 8 seasons with 10+ sacks) and McDaniel because he's widely regarded as one of the best OL of all time (and went to 12 Pro Bowls, which is ridiculous).

Randy did as much as either to help win games, and did arguably more than any other WR would be capable of.
Don't try to tell me that the great WRs never took plays off, or ran out of bounds instead of fighting for yards (which Jerry Rice was notorious for), or were excellent run blockers, because it wouldn't be true.
They just weren't dumb enough to tell the media.

He played injured as much as anyone else...and still produced more than most healthy players.
He singlehandedly beat GB in the playoffs, on one leg.

Showing up to camp out of shape and using stimulants, to me, doesn't constitute a role model for effort, but rather an example of trying to cut corners when others put effort in their offseasons.
A player who runs and works out every day during the offseason does more to make the team than someone who doesn't.
Korey's accident was a tragedy that hit everyone hard, but don't delude yourself into thinking it wasn't preventable.

I guess it is a useless argument.


All good points you win, Jersey gets retired.
NOT.

My point is that it isn't about individual acolades but you still keep putting up numbers to convince me.


Randy was about Randy.
He had no concept of team. The players I mentioned above were of that ilk. Randy was not. That my friend is why they won't retire his Jersey.

I don't care how good his numbers were.

C Mac D
08-16-2007, 07:01 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


No and now you see my point.
Randy never gave anything to this org like any of those people did.
He just caught a deep ball more than anybody else.
Heck he even left the field once before the game was over, he admitted he took plays off, he couldn't/wouldn't block during running plays........

As for Big K, think what you will (Sure he accepted risk by taking the meds he was taking), but that man died trying to make the team.


Would Randy do that?


No I don't see your point, I was making the argument that Randle would be more deserving because of 7 Pro Bowls, 137.5 Career sack (5th all time, #1 all time as a DT, 8 seasons with 10+ sacks) and McDaniel because he's widely regarded as one of the best OL of all time (and went to 12 Pro Bowls, which is ridiculous).

Randy did as much as either to help win games, and did arguably more than any other WR would be capable of.
Don't try to tell me that the great WRs never took plays off, or ran out of bounds instead of fighting for yards (which Jerry Rice was notorious for), or were excellent run blockers, because it wouldn't be true.
They just weren't dumb enough to tell the media.

He played injured as much as anyone else...and still produced more than most healthy players.
He singlehandedly beat GB in the playoffs, on one leg.

Showing up to camp out of shape and using stimulants, to me, doesn't constitute a role model for effort, but rather an example of trying to cut corners when others put effort in their offseasons.
A player who runs and works out every day during the offseason does more to make the team than someone who doesn't.
Korey's accident was a tragedy that hit everyone hard, but don't delude yourself into thinking it wasn't preventable.

I guess it is a useless argument.


All good points you win, Jersey gets retired.
NOT.

My point is that it isn't about individual acolades but you still keep putting up numbers to convince me.


Randy was about Randy.
He had no concept of team. The players I mentioned above were of that ilk. Randy was not. That my friend is why they won't retire his Jersey.

I don't care how good his numbers were.


No way does his number get retired. End of story. I don't care what your argument is. It's not going to happen, nor should it.

singersp
08-16-2007, 11:23 PM
"thevikingfan" wrote:


Lol i remember when i was watching the rams vikes game the announcer said."and a catch by stepehen "dont call me doctor" spoch" and then he said live long and prosper.They must have been huge fans of star treck or something


LOL! Obviously you're not.

singersp
08-16-2007, 11:26 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


IMO, that number should be retired.


You honestly believe that the Vikings should retire Moss' number while he's still active in the NFL & playing for another team?
:-

cajunvike
08-16-2007, 11:27 PM
Fuck Moss...he's a Putzie now!

KrackerJack
08-16-2007, 11:30 PM
#84 retired? Nah...Moss was good here...but not enough to retire the guy's jersey, there were better players in the franchise before that haven't had their jerseys retired, Randy is still active for other teams aswell, i don't think there is a good enough reason why 84 should be retired.

BadlandsVikings
08-16-2007, 11:39 PM
The only way a number should be retired is if he spent almost all of his career in one spot and didn't act like a moron....Nobody will retire Moss' number and he will never be in anyone's ring of honor.

cajunvike
08-16-2007, 11:51 PM
"BadlandsViking" wrote:


The only way a number should be retired is if he spent almost all of his career in one spot and didn't act like a silly guy....Nobody will retire Moss' number and he will never be in anyone's ring of honor.


I agree wholeheartedly!!!

Vikes_King
08-17-2007, 03:28 AM
I personally hate retiring numbers. If the player was that great, put them in the Ring of Honor, team Hall of Fame, League Hall of Fame, etc. fuck retiring numbers.


i say this because i want the vikings to be a long standing franchise in Minnesota (which possibly wont happen if we dont get this damn stadium deal, btw im drunk) But if we retire the numbers of every good player (or great) that steps onto the field. We wont have many numbers left.

Sure, normally it wouldnt be a problem since u only have 53 people on your team and u have 99 numbers.
But.. since only certain numbers are allotted to each position, its just absurd to keep retiring numbers imo... in cases of death and such (stringer) i understand.. but because they were frickin awesome? eh.. let the other honors show that... not taking away the #

singersp
08-17-2007, 05:41 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


Mr. A.
You are missing the point as well.
Getting your number retired is based on a heck of a lot more than numbers.
Take a look at my post.
Its about your body of work as a whole.
Randy's just doesn't match up to what some of the greats have done for this team.
Let me try to put it another way.........
What are Koreys numbers????????


That's such a vague argument.
What better indicator is there of a players "work as a whole" than his career production?

IMO, Korey's number should never have been retired, I don't mean to offend anyone or tarnish his memory, but I feel his number was retired because of the tragedy itself (and possibly guilt felt by the organization) not because of the type of player Korey was (though he was good).
Can you honestly say someone like Korey deserves his number retired more than someone like Randall McDaniel or John Randle based on his "work as a whole"?


That is part of the reason & rightfully so. Korey died giving his all for his team. I can't believe the retirement of his number is even being questioned.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 08:21 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


...The only reason he is nauseating is because you have to hear about him so often on the internet, lol...

Very true, in the context of pp.o to be more exact.
I'm not the only person that has grown weary of hearing about Randy Moss the head case being a hero.
Screw him and worship Spach.
The new #84 on the Vikings.

ejmat
08-17-2007, 08:29 AM
First off using Korey as a comparison doesn't make sense here IMO.


As far as Moss is concerned I could care less one way or the other.
However, it really shouldn't be retired.
Retiring a number is saved for a select few athletes that do something for the organization over and above just doing the job you are hired to do.
Using players like Randle and McDaniel as examples here are great examples.
It's not just about their stats.
Moss was a great player while here but his antics on and off the field is what eventually got him traded.
Don't get me wrong.
I loved it when he mooned the Packer fans and IMO that was totally taken out of context.
However, the rest of his antics like squirting a ref, leaving the game field before the game was over (although I can understand his reasoning), and running over a security guard do not warrant retiring a persons jersey.
It's bad sportsmanship and bad judgement.
Why should someone with that kind of judgement have their jersey # retired?

I agree with Vikes_King.
Retiring numbers should not happen often especially with because there are 53 men on a roster and only 99 numbers.
Also, each position are allocatred certain numbers.
It should only happen for players that do something to change the game.
poeple like Joe Namath, IMO deserves his number retired.
Not because of his stats but because he realistically changed the game.
He helped give respect to the AFC.

TxViking
08-17-2007, 09:17 AM
Moss was for Moss and not much else - imho...he will never make any hall of fame.

MaxVike
08-17-2007, 09:37 AM
Can we move on from Moss already?
He's gone, his number, can and should be worn by someone now...until, if ever, it is retired.
Yes, I was entertained and loved Randy Moss as a Vike, bought his jersey, defended him, hell, I even drafted him 6 times in FFL.
However, now he's gone; long gone.

His number may very well be retired some day, which, is debatable, but, for now, I applaud
Mr. Spach
;D for taking the number.

Now he's a Patriot, and if we play them, I hope he lays a MAJOR egg...he is no longer a Vike, he is the enemy as unfortunate as that is.

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 11:42 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


IMO, that number should be retired.


You honestly believe that the Vikings should retire Moss' number while he's still active in the NFL & playing for another team?
:-\


Maybe not right now, but at some point when he's retired yes.

Zeus
08-17-2007, 11:47 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Maybe not right now, but at some point when he's retired yes.


Yeah - because it would be great to see Randy back in the dome, tears in his eyes, as they raise his number to the rafters right next to all of the champioship banners he helped bring to Minnesota.

=Z=

NordicNed
08-17-2007, 11:52 AM
Personaly,







Even though I was a fan of Moses, no way did he earn the right to have his number retired.







He even stated himself, he'd play when he wants to play.....Biggest reason not to retire the jersey, he really didn't play here long enough to begin with.







Plus he never really did anything to help bring a Championship here...







Great player while here, but not the best of a team player, and I believe these are just two of many subjects you must excell in, in order to have a chance at getting your team jersey retired..

Prophet
08-17-2007, 11:55 AM
I sure as hell hope they don't litter the new stadium with a retired Moss jersey.
I'll go on record saying that it will never happen.


I have never seen so many people sniff a single players crotch that hasn't played on the team for years for so long.
It is truly amazing.


Go Spach! The legitimate owner of #84 on the Vikings.

cogitans
08-17-2007, 11:58 AM
"NordicNed" wrote:


Even though I was a fan of Moses, no way did he earn the right to have his number retired.










I disagree. The whole parting of the seas were amazing.

And just for bringing down the 10 commandments should be enough.

BadlandsVikings
08-17-2007, 12:00 PM
I want an autographed Spach jersey.

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 12:18 PM
"singersp" wrote:


That is part of the reason & rightfully so. Korey died giving his all for his team. I can't believe the retirement of his number is even being questioned.


I suppose it depends what your main criteria is for retiring a number is.
It you look at a players emotional impact by all means (Though I doubt any player other than Randy had as much an emotional impact on the team or fans during his time here).
IF you look at facts, production and impact on success (which I would rather do), then there is no question.
I didn't realize showing up to camp out of shape and taking (now-illegal) stimulants to enhance performance entails giving your "all" for the team.
I'm sure Barry Bonds would enjoy hearing that.

"Prophet" wrote:


Very true, in the context of pp.o to be more exact.
I'm not the only person that has grown weary of hearing about Randy Moss the head case being a hero.
Screw him and worship Spach.
The new #84 on the Vikings.


Randy is no hero, he made mistakes, much like Cris Carter did in his youth.
People didn't take Cris' LEAVING FOR ANOTHER TEAM as badly as Randy being SHIPPED OFF BECAUSE OF A DISAGREEMENT WITH THE OWNER, because when Cris left we still had an offense, when Randy left, there was no offense.

"ejmat" wrote:


However, the rest of his antics like squirting a ref, leaving the game field before the game was over (although I can understand his reasoning), and running over a security guard do not warrant retiring a persons jersey.
It's bad sportsmanship and bad judgement.
Why should someone with that kind of judgement have their jersey # retired?


Lol, there are MANY players on MANY teams who have had their numbers retired despite bad judgement or sportsmanship (cough*Jerry Rice*cough, cough*Cris Carter"cough)


"Zeus" wrote:


Yeah - because it would be great to see Randy back in the dome, tears in his eyes, as they raise his number to the rafters right next to all of the champioship banners he helped bring to Minnesota.

=Z=


The same could be said about any player in viking history, including all the past greats who did nothing in Superbowls, yet there are still retired Jerseys.
Don't even pretend we never won a Superbowl because of Randy, or that any one player is responsible for winning a championship themselves.

"NordicNed" wrote:


Plus he never really did anything to help bring a Championship here...







Great player while here, but not the best of a team player, and I believe these are just two of many subjects you must excell in, in order to have a chance at getting your team jersey retired..


I guess all those touchdowns he caught never really helped us win games?
I mean, it's not like he singlehandedly won us playoff games, right (like New Orleans, like GB etc.)?

Say what you want about him "not being a team player" because of what he said, I judge a player by his actions on the field, not his words or actions off of it.
I think you'd be hard pressed finding a teamate other than Matt Birk or a jaded Daunte Culpepper saying Moss was anything less than a team player.

"Prophet" wrote:

I have never seen so many people sniff a single players crotch that hasn't played on the team for years for so long.
It is truly amazing.




Yah it's not like people still talk about how great Tarkenton, Page, Krause, Eller, Marshall etc. were, that never happens...and how much longer ago did they play?
Moss is still relevant because he's still playing.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 12:22 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


That is part of the reason & rightfully so. Korey died giving his all for his team. I can't believe the retirement of his number is even being questioned.


I suppose it depends what your main criteria is for retiring a number is.
It you look at a players emotional impact by all means (Though I doubt any player other than Randy had as much an emotional impact on the team or fans during his time here).
IF you look at facts, production and impact on success (which I would rather do), then there is no question.
I didn't realize showing up to camp out of shape and taking (now-illegal) stimulants to enhance performance entails giving your "all" for the team.
I'm sure Barry Bonds would enjoy hearing that.

"Prophet" wrote:


Very true, in the context of pp.o to be more exact.
I'm not the only person that has grown weary of hearing about Randy Moss the head case being a hero.
Screw him and worship Spach.
The new #84 on the Vikings.


Randy is no hero, he made mistakes, much like Cris Carter did in his youth.
People didn't take Cris' LEAVING FOR ANOTHER TEAM as badly as Randy being SHIPPED OFF BECAUSE OF A DISAGREEMENT WITH THE OWNER, because when Cris left we still had an offense, when Randy left, there was no offense.

"ejmat" wrote:


However, the rest of his antics like squirting a ref, leaving the game field before the game was over (although I can understand his reasoning), and running over a security guard do not warrant retiring a persons jersey.
It's bad sportsmanship and bad judgement.
Why should someone with that kind of judgement have their jersey # retired?


Lol, there are MANY players on MANY teams who have had their numbers retired despite bad judgement or sportsmanship (cough*Jerry Rice*cough, cough*Cris Carter"cough)


"Zeus" wrote:


Yeah - because it would be great to see Randy back in the dome, tears in his eyes, as they raise his number to the rafters right next to all of the champioship banners he helped bring to Minnesota.

=Z=


The same could be said about any player in viking history, including all the past greats who did nothing in Superbowls, yet there are still retired Jerseys.
Don't even pretend we never won a Superbowl because of Randy, or that any one player is responsible for winning a championship themselves.

"NordicNed" wrote:


Plus he never really did anything to help bring a Championship here...







Great player while here, but not the best of a team player, and I believe these are just two of many subjects you must excell in, in order to have a chance at getting your team jersey retired..


I guess all those touchdowns he caught never really helped us win games?
I mean, it's not like he singlehandedly won us playoff games, right (like New Orleans, like GB etc.)?

Say what you want about him "not being a team player" because of what he said, I judge a player by his actions on the field, not his words or actions off of it.
I think you'd be hard pressed finding a teamate other than Matt Birk or a jaded Daunte Culpepper saying Moss was anything less than a team player.

"Prophet" wrote:

I have never seen so many people sniff a single players crotch that hasn't played on the team for years for so long.
It is truly amazing.




Yah it's not like people still talk about how great Tarkenton, Page, Krause, Eller, Marshall etc. were, that never happens...and how much longer ago did they play?
Moss is still relevant because he's still playing.


If I had a Randy Moss crotch sniffing badge of courage, I would award you with it.
Way to stick up for your man by calling everyone out!
lmao

C Mac D
08-17-2007, 12:23 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


Maybe not right now, but at some point when he's retired yes.


Yeah - because it would be great to see Randy back in the dome, tears in his eyes, as they raise his number to the rafters right next to all of the champioship banners he helped bring to Minnesota.

=Z=


Bahahaha!!! Hell yeah Zeus! Last time I checked, teams retired numbers of Honorable Men who were selfless when playing the game... not whinny children who "played when they wanted to" and bad-mouthed their team after leaving.

MaxVike
08-17-2007, 12:36 PM
Randy Moss is no longer a Viking.
He now plays for the Patriots...right now, he might as well be Brett Farvre.
He is on a different team, he is the enemy.
What am I missing here?
He could have been a great Viking, he chose to be a malcontent......now, he's gone, and justifiably so.
If we play the Pats, I hope Griffin clotheslines him.

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 12:38 PM
"Prophet" wrote:



If I had a Randy Moss crotch sniffing badge of courage, I would award you with it.
Way to stick up for your man by calling everyone out!
lmao


Call me what you want, it just pisses me off when people think for themselves for so long when a player is on our team, only to fall back on media perception when a player is not longer on our team.

Call me a crotch sniffer, but it takes more conviction than being a ball-kicker which IMO is hypocritical and cowardly.

It's not like I want Moss back on the team or anything (Not that he wouldn't be the best playmaker on the team, even at this point in his career), I still maintain the only reason he was traded to Oakland was because injuries affected his production.
I don't believe any of that BS about how "the Vikings finally had enough", please, as soon as he was unable to put up outstanding numbers he was shipped off thanks to cheapskate McCombs.

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because he wasn't here long enough and didn't say all the right things to reporters I respect that

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because of production, impact or because he didn't help this team win you are r.etarded

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because of off-field problems, you are either a hypocrite who never cheered him in his time here, or a remarkably rare individual who was never a fan of Randy Moss as a viking.

C Mac D
08-17-2007, 12:43 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:



If I had a Randy Moss crotch sniffing badge of courage, I would award you with it.
Way to stick up for your man by calling everyone out!
lmao


Call me what you want, it just pisses me off when people think for themselves for so long when a player is on our team, only to fall back on media perception when a player is not longer on our team.

Call me a crotch sniffer, but it takes more conviction than being a ball-kicker which IMO is hypocritical and cowardly.

It's not like I want Moss back on the team or anything (Not that he wouldn't be the best playmaker on the team, even at this point in his career), I still maintain the only reason he was traded to Oakland was because injuries affected his production.
I don't believe any of that BS about how "the Vikings finally had enough", please, as soon as he was unable to put up outstanding numbers he was shipped off thanks to cheapskate McCombs.

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because he wasn't here long enough and didn't say all the right things to reporters I respect that

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because of production, impact or because he didn't help this team win you are r.etarded

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because of off-field problems, you are either a hypocrite who never cheered him in his time here, or a remarkably rare individual who was never a fan of Randy Moss as a viking.


His numbers were were respectable... he was not. Sorry dude, you're wrong. There is a reason he is no longer a Viking.

josdin00
08-17-2007, 12:46 PM
"cogitans" wrote:


"NordicNed" wrote:


Even though I was a fan of Moses, no way did he earn the right to have his number retired.










I disagree. The whole parting of the seas were amazing.

And just for bringing down the 10 commandments should be enough.


Yeah, but the guy wasn't much of a leader. I mean, come on! It took 40 years of wandering the desert to find Isreal? Its right there on the fuckin' map!

cogitans
08-17-2007, 12:48 PM
"josdin00" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"NordicNed" wrote:


Even though I was a fan of Moses, no way did he earn the right to have his number retired.










I disagree. The whole parting of the seas were amazing.

And just for bringing down the 10 commandments should be enough.


Yeah, but the guy wasn't much of a leader. I mean, come on! 40 years of wandering the desert to find Isreal? It's right there on the fuckin' map!


I guess you got a point. Maybe retiring his jersey is a bit over the top. But at least we should consider him among others for The Ring of Honor.

cajunvike
08-17-2007, 12:55 PM
"MaxVike" wrote:


Randy Moss is no longer a Viking.
He now plays for the Patriots...right now, he might as well be Brett Farvre.
He is on a different team, he is the enemy.
What am I missing here?
He could have been a great Viking, he chose to be a malcontent......now, he's gone, and justifiably so.
If we play the Pats, I hope Griffin clotheslines him.


:D

ejmat
08-17-2007, 12:56 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:



If I had a Randy Moss crotch sniffing badge of courage, I would award you with it.
Way to stick up for your man by calling everyone out!
lmao


Call me what you want, it just pisses me off when people think for themselves for so long when a player is on our team, only to fall back on media perception when a player is not longer on our team.

Call me a crotch sniffer, but it takes more conviction than being a ball-kicker which IMO is hypocritical and cowardly.

It's not like I want Moss back on the team or anything (Not that he wouldn't be the best playmaker on the team, even at this point in his career), I still maintain the only reason he was traded to Oakland was because injuries affected his production.
I don't believe any of that BS about how "the Vikings finally had enough", please, as soon as he was unable to put up outstanding numbers he was shipped off thanks to cheapskate McCombs.

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because he wasn't here long enough and didn't say all the right things to reporters I respect that

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because of production, impact or because he didn't help this team win you are r.etarded

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because of off-field problems, you are either a hypocrite who never cheered him in his time here, or a remarkably rare individual who was never a fan of Randy Moss as a viking.


You compared Randy Moss to Cris Carter and cough cough Jerry Rice.
C'mon Stallion.
Those were two players that gave it their all every play.
Cris Carter learned the error of his ways before he even came to the Vikings.
You know you are entitled to your opinions and maybe you make some decent points but don't try to be sarcastic with my input.


I like Moss as much as anyone in here.
I wish him the best in NE as I did in Oakland.
but when I think about this thread it's rediculous to me.
I can care less one way or the other but IMO his number should not be retired for the Vikings.
Cris Carter should and Jerry Rice by all means should as a 49er.
Maybe if Moss would have done things the right way he would still be a Viking.
Unfortunately because of his antics he was traded.
The reason why his number will never be retired as a Viking.
Keep your opinion that's fine.
I will keep mine too.
But if you want to start being sarcastic I'll come back at you.

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 01:15 PM
"ejmat" wrote:



You compared Randy Moss to Cris Carter and cough cough Jerry Rice.
C'mon Stallion.
Those were two players that gave it their all every play.
Cris Carter learned the error of his ways before he even came to the Vikings.
You know you are entitled to your opinions and maybe you make some decent points but don't try to be sarcastic with my input.


I like Moss as much as anyone in here.
I wish him the best in NE as I did in Oakland.
but when I think about this thread it's rediculous to me.
I can care less one way or the other but IMO his number should not be retired for the Vikings.
Cris Carter should and Jerry Rice by all means should as a 49er.
Maybe if Moss would have done things the right way he would still be a Viking.
Unfortunately because of his antics he was traded.
The reason why his number will never be retired as a Viking.
Keep your opinion that's fine.
I will keep mine too.
But if you want to start being sarcastic I'll come back at you.


So Cris Carter's youthful transgressions are irrelevant to the type of player he was because they did not occur when he was on the vikings?
Is the point you're trying to make that mistakes made a person only define that person if they didn't occur as a member of the vikings?
If Cris Carter murdered 6 people tomorrow would he still deserve to have his Jersey retired?

Moss was nothing more than a young player who expressed his frustration with losing in a misguided way and lacked judgement you'd expect from someone in the spotlight.
He was not a bad teamate or someone who didn't want to win or only cared about the money.
If Moss played out his career as the model of a team player would you still feel the same way because of the mistakes he made in his first few seasons.

If Moss put up better numbers in his time here than Rice or Carter (players who apparently gave their all every play, presumably because they didn't say otherwise) did in their first 7 seasons, on a half effort, is remarkable, almost impossible one might even say.
Jerry Rice was the typical WR who ran out of bounds and avoided hits in order to "prolong his career".
Is that the definition of a player who gives their all every play? In general, no, but WRs always go by different standards don't they?
Nobody ever complain that Torry Holt or Issace Bruce take a slide rather than fight for a few extra yards and risk getting hit.
Even if Moss wasn't trying on plays he wasn't getting passed to he was still comanding the same double teams that Jerry Rice or Cris Carter were.

lol, if you think Moss was traded because of his antics, you are naive.
He had those "antics" for 7 seasons (even before if you count college), he was still drafted and nothing was done, why?
Because he never missed a game and produced like no other.
AS soon as the injuries started to become more prevalent, and he started to miss time, he was shipped off while his value was still relatively high.

It was a business decision based on facts and numbers, not a personal one based on a sudden disgust at his oh-so reprehensible behaviour
::)

Prophet
08-17-2007, 01:55 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:



If I had a Randy Moss crotch sniffing badge of courage, I would award you with it.
Way to stick up for your man by calling everyone out!
lmao


Call me what you want, it just pisses me off when people think for themselves for so long when a player is on our team, only to fall back on media perception when a player is not longer on our team.

Call me a crotch sniffer, but it takes more conviction than being a ball-kicker which IMO is hypocritical and cowardly.

It's not like I want Moss back on the team or anything (Not that he wouldn't be the best playmaker on the team, even at this point in his career), I still maintain the only reason he was traded to Oakland was because injuries affected his production.
I don't believe any of that BS about how "the Vikings finally had enough", please, as soon as he was unable to put up outstanding numbers he was shipped off thanks to cheapskate McCombs.

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because he wasn't here long enough and didn't say all the right things to reporters I respect that

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because of production, impact or because he didn't help this team win you are r.etarded

If you tell me Randy doesn't deserve to have his number retired because of off-field problems, you are either a hypocrite who never cheered him in his time here, or a remarkably rare individual who was never a fan of Randy Moss as a viking.


Maybe I was suppose to put one of those smiley things behind me comment.
It was meant as a compliment for continuing to stand up for him when you are in the minority.

I was a fan of him while he was here.
He is no longer here.
I do not think his attitude warrants a retired jersey.
Call it the media if you wish, N does not equal one.
He has had problems throughout his college and NFL career.
He has always been and continues to be a 'me first' player with an attitude.
There are plenty of direct quotes from him that have nothing to do with media opinion.
People that stand up for someone no matter how much evidence is against them are crotch sniffers.
That is just the way it is.

Here are some direct quotes and teammates comments from the hero whose jersey will never be retired in Minnesota:


Vikings | Moss Speaks Out - from www.KFFL.com
Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:56:58 -0800

Ian Browne reports for SportsLine.com Minnesota Vikings WR Randy Moss, upset with the team's blowout defeat today, had some scathing things to say after the game. Moss said he'd eventually get a Super Bowl ring someday, maybe with the Vikings. Moss broke into his strong talk when asked about teammate Cris Carter's potential retirement. Moss wants Carter back with the team but added, "but I don't want Cris to come back and have his hopes set on winning a Super Bowl. I don't really want to say something I might regret. But it's going to be hard for us to win a Super Bowl in Minnesota. It's going to be hard." Moss would not answer why he felt the way he did. He said he sensed at kickoff it could be a long day for his team. A tough way for Moss to close a productive season for himself and his team.

Wow, what a team player.
Retire his jersey?


Vikings | Steussie Questions Moss - from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:16:13 -0800

According to the Star Tribune, Minnesota Vikings OT Todd Steussie had some tough words about WR Randy Moss and the perception Moss does not go all out every play. Steussie was concerned about Moss seemingly giving up in the Giants playoff game while others kept trying. Steussie is the first Vikings player to criticize Moss in public. Steussie also hinted by some of his comments he felt some of his teammates quit during the team's 41-0 loss to the New York Giants in the NFC Championship game.

Fellow players ripping him for being a slacker?
Wow, retire his jersey.



Vikings | Moss Update - from www.KFFL.com
Fri, 30 Mar 2001 02:02:56 -0800

The Star Tribune reports Minnesota Vikings WR Randy Moss has not changed his stance on the comments he made about the team after their loss in the NFC Championship game. "Whatever comes out of my mouth," Moss said, "I mean it." In an interview Thursday night, Moss reiterated his doubts about his future and that of the Vikings. He openly questioned whether the defense has improved, said he thought the retirement of RB Robert Smith could open up the offense and he downplayed comments from OT Todd Steussie who just signed with Carolina. Steussie had criticized Moss after the Giants loss. The Vikings could fire up talks on a long-term deal with Moss later this summer, but it is not a certainty at this point.

This takes away the typical crotch sniffer excuse making things up for their hero.
Retire his jersey?
I think not.


Vikings | Moss Speaks Out - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 7 May 2001 13:31:17 -0700

The Pioneer Press is reporting Minnesota Vikings WR Randy Moss said he’ll stay with the Vikings as long as the team can afford him. To keep Moss, the Vikings will likely have to make him the highest paid receiver. Vikings owner Red McCombs said last month that he hopes to sign Moss to a long-term contract extension before the start of the season.

As long as the team can afford him?
Wow, what loyalty.
Retire his jersey?
I think not.


Vikings | Another Run At Moss - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:30:03 -0700

Kevin Seifert reports for the Star Tribune the Minnesota Vikings have renewed their efforts to sign WR Randy Moss to a long-term contract. However, it appears the sides have made little progress since talks stalled during the spring. Moss is seeking a deal that would make him the NFL's highest-paid player. "The Vikings have shown interest in trying to get a deal done before training camp," agent Dante DiTrapano said. "How interested they are remains to be seen."

Wow, a team player.
I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL?
Retire his jersey?
I think not.



Vikings | Moss Caught Loafing? - from www.KFFL.com
Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:11:03 -0700

The Star Tribune reports Merril Hoge of ESPN has stated WR Randy Moss was loafing during key plays the week two loss to the Chicago Bears. Hoge said footage of the Vikings 17 -10 loss Sunday at Chicago reveals a key play in the fourth quarter with about seven minutes left (and the score tied at 10), Hoge said The Vikings had a third-and-1 with RB Michael Bennett running the ball to the right side. "It was a cover-two, and the run was to Moss' side. The guy covering Moss is a corner, and in the cover-two the corner is responsible for the run support. Therefore, it's Moss' job to block him. But Moss jogs off the line, lets the corner [Walt Harris] go, and he tags Bennett. If Moss does his job or halfway does it the Vikings get the first down."

Media contrived?
The crotch sniffers would say so, I think not.
Retire his jersey?
No.


Vikings | Moss Silences Them At the End - from www.KFFL.com
Sun, 9 Dec 2001 18:43:54 -0800

Bob Sansevere reports for the Pioneer Press after being booed early in the game, Minnesota Vikings WR Randy Moss took a short pass 73-yards for a TD and the crowd cheered him wildly. Earlier in the game, Moss was booed. Every time he touched the ball, or even got near it, he was showered with boos. Moss felt the wrath of the crowd for admitting you don't always go hard and, for an encore, threaten to beat up fans. He had a good game Sunday as including his 73-TD, he had seven catches for 158 yards. Moss eluded reporters by dressing in the trainers' room after the game. "When my mind ain't right, I get in trouble," Moss said to one reporter. "Right now, my mind ain't right."

See above, he means what he says when he says it.
Media contrived?
Only for the crotch sniffers.
Retire his jersey?
No.


Vikings | Moss - Another Fine? - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:21:57 -0800

According to the Star Tribune, sources have told them Minnesota Vikings WR Randy Moss has been fined $15,000 by the team after he verbally abused a group of corporate sponsors on a team bus in Philadelphia. The incident reportedly occurred Nov. 11 as the team was preparing to leave Veterans Stadium after a 48-17 loss to the Eagles.

A professional representing the Minnesota Vikings?
No, I think not.
Retire his jersey?
You can't be serious.



Vikings | Carter Note - from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 19:32:50 -0800

The AP reports Minnesota Vikings WR Cris Carter criticized teammate Randy Moss today in a conference call and he added he could see himself playing for the Green Bay Packers. Carter criticized Moss for saying he played hard only when he felt like it. "I take personal offense to it because that's not the way you approach the game. You play when they make the schedule. When the commissioner gives the schedule, that's when you play." Asked what it would be like to catch passes Packers QB Brett Favre, Carter said he'd rather talk about it after the season. Favre told the Wisconsin State Journal he wasn't sure Carter would be a good fit in Green Bay, however.

Cris Carter criticizes Moss, another respected player that represented the Vikings well is frustrated with him.
Retire his jersey?
No.



Vikings | Closing off Robert Smith's Career - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:25:39 -0800

Closing off an old story, the Star-Tribune reports former Minnesota Vikings RB Robert Smith, who retired after the 2000 season, said he wanted to walk away from the game under his own power -- not limp away down the road. Smith said he cannot imagine playing again and will have a book out in the next five or six months. In regards to the speculation that he had problems with his teammates, Smith said that wasn't an issue although he did have a few "run-ins" with Randy Moss.

Robert Smith, one of the most laid back guys to ever play for the Vikings, had 'run-ins' with Moss.
Retire his jersey?
No.


Vikings | Moss To Be Fined - from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:37:45 -0700

The Star Tribune reports the Minnesota Vikings will fine WR Randy Moss $50,000. Since Moss is facing just misdemeanor charges, the Vikings decided only to fine him the maximum amount allowed under team rules. Reportedly, the team had decided to suspend Moss with pay for Sunday night's game at Seattle if he was charged with a felony. The fine is believed to include $5,000 for missing meetings, $5,000 for missing a weightlifting session and $5,000 for missing the beginning of practice. It also includes one-game check for conduct detrimental to the team. That piece of the fine may be challenged by the NFLPA.

The hero gets off easy, helping the image of the Minnesota Vikings?
I think not.
Retire his jersey?
No.



Vikings | Police & Courts: Randy Moss - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:16:43 -0700

Associated Press reports Minnesota Vikings WR Randy Moss has been charged with possession of a small amount of marijuana. The petty misdemeanor count carries a fine of up to $200, but could also lead to a fine or suspension by the NFL. As mentioned, Moss is already reportedly on the league’s substance abuse program for testing positive for marijuana last year. In addition to the marijuana charges, Moss was also hit with two new traffic counts for his recent incident. Added to the list were making an improper turn at an intersection in a hazardous manner, which is a misdemeanor, and obstructing traffic with a vehicle, which is a petty misdemeanor.

Smoking the hooch?
Retire his jersey?
No.


Raiders | Moss Admits to Marijuana Use During NFL Tenure - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:30:25 -0700

The Associated Press reports in an interview for HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel," Oakland Raiders WR Randy Moss admits that he has used marijuana since entering the NFL and still smokes it on occasion. When asked if he still smokes marijuana, Moss said: "I might. I might have fun. And, you know, hopefully... I won't get into any trouble by the NFL by saying that, you know. I have had fun throughout my years and, you know, predominantly in the offseason." Dante DiTrapano, Moss' agent, said HBO was trying to damage his client's reputation. He added that Moss was talking about past marijuana use in the interview.

Brain child. Retire his jersey? No.



Raiders | Moss has a frustrating return to Minnesota - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:04:54 -0700

Jon Krawczynski, of the Associated Press, reports Oakland Raiders WR Randy Moss had a frustrating return to Minnesota Monday evening, Aug. 14. Moss had one catch for 16 yards in his first game at the Metrodome since the Vikings traded him to Oakland before last season. Moss started the night with a feet-stomping tantrum after QB Aaron Brooks didn't see that he was wide open in the end zone. After making his only catch of the game against Vikings' CB Dovonte Edwards in the second quarter, Moss was pulled by head coach Art Shell. Moss stormed off the field and threw his helmet in disgust, stewing on the bench for the rest of the game.

Wow, it's still all about Randy, years later.
Retire his jersey?
No.


Raiders | Moss sees no progress offensively - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:11:42 -0700

Steve Corkran, of the Contra Costa Times, reports Oakland Raiders WR Randy Moss voiced his displeasure over the offense following a 16-13 preseason victory over the Minnesota Vikings Monday, Aug. 14. "I don't see it," Moss said, when asked if Oakland's offense is making progress. "Hell, no, I don't see it. But what we're doing as far as practice, it seems that way in practice, but when we get to the games, it doesn't seem like we're moving in the right direction."

Wow, go Randy.
He's really supporting his team, what a team player.
It doesn't matter if it's true, you don't go badmouthing your team to the media.
I bet that really builds up team chemistry.
Retire his jersey?
No.



Raiders | Moss critical of team - from www.KFFL.com
Sat, 9 Sep 2006 05:13:27 -0700

Steve Corkran, of the Contra Costa Times, reports Oakland Raiders WR Randy Moss has grown frustrated with the direction of the organization. Moss expressed his frustration in a radio interview with Fox Sports Friday, Sept. 8. "It's crazy around here, man," Moss said. "It's something that we're trying to hold on to, man, and, hopefully, Coach Art (Shell) can move us in the right direction, man, so I'm just trying to stay away from all of that stuff this year, like I did last year and, hopefully, we can win some games."

Again, blabbing his mouth to the media about an internal team problem.
Retire his jersey?
I think not.


Raiders | A Shell/Moss showdown imminent? - from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:53:49 -0700

Gary Peterson, of the Contra Costa Times, reports Oakland Raiders WR Randy Moss and head coach Art Shell appear headed for a collision course, after Moss once again expressed his dissatisfaction with the organization, in particular with Shell, during an ESPN interview. "I think coach Art Shell just has a tight grasp on us, man. Knowing that you're a man, you're a certain age and this man is treating you like kids or a boy or whatnot. I'm not crying, I'm just going on what is brought to my attention. It might be small things like food, or full pads," Moss said during the interview. Shell continues to say he has no problems with the public comments Moss has made recently.

The pussy blabbing again.
Retire his jersey?
I think not.



Raiders | Moss continues to be critical of team - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 3 Oct 2006 07:23:58 -0700

Steve Corkran, of the Contra Costa Times, reports Oakland Raiders WR Randy Moss continues to vent his frustration towards the organization. Moss said during a radio interview Monday, Oct. 2, he is not concerned with the team's struggles this season, as the organization, in Moss' opinion, does not appear committed to winning. "I'm not concerned about football right now," Moss said during the interview. "I'm loving life. I don't see anybody else having a concern, so why should I? There are negative things going on now. I'm not the only one unhappy."

Wow, what a great attitude the head case has.
Retire his jersey?
No.




Raiders | Moss and Kiffin reportedly start off on the wrong foot - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:40:16 -0800

Jerry McDonald, of ANG Newspapers, reports Oakland Raiders head coach Lane Kiffin and WR Randy Moss are not starting the year off on good terms. Kiffin reportedly had trouble reaching Moss by phone. When Kiffin finally made contact with him, Moss told Kiffin in profane terms he was not interested in talking. A source at the Senior Bowl confirmed the conversation was a topic of discussion among coaches, scouts and personnel.

There appears to be a pattern.
Retire his jersey?
No.

Keep on sniffin', ignore the facts.


Spach, the rightful owner of #84 on the Minnesota Vikings.

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 04:47 PM
Wow, what a team player.
Retire his jersey?


Lol, ignore the facts much?
Obviously Carter felt the same way since he ditched the Vikings to go play for the dolphins.
Add to the fact that the management sold of all the teams players after the 2000 season, and yah, I'd agree with him that it was going to be hard to win the superbowl, as it was obvious they were rebuilding after that loss.





Fellow players ripping him for being a slacker?
Wow, retire his jersey.


Steussie criticizing Moss' effort?
The guy took steroids to compete isntead of putting in effort to compete clean.
ANd it's not like he played like an All Star in our NFC championship losses either, if I remember he blew a block that lead to a key sack and forced fumble against Atlanta in 98.
Real character witness...




This takes away the typical crotch sniffer excuse making things up for their hero.
Retire his jersey?
I think not.


And what excuse is that?
When Moss says stuff he means it, that's all I got from that quote...


As long as the team can afford him?
Wow, what loyalty.
Retire his jersey?
I think not.

Again, like Carter had so much loyalty? Like Randal Mcdaniel did? Hell, Adrian Peterson held out until he was paid like one of the top RBs in the NFL, deoes that mean he's not loyal, no, it means players treat this like a business. 95% of players out there would do the same thing, they just don't say it.
I mean most free agents that teams sign, sign there because it was more money than there previous team could afford or decided to offer...I guess guys like Aintoine Winfield, Hutchinson, Sharper, Pat Williams, Chester Taylor and Bobby Wade are perfect examples of unloyal players because, they signed somewhere they were paid more
::)


Wow, a team player.
I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL?
Retire his jersey?
I think not.

Yah I'm sure so many people think that players like Peyton Manning (highest paid when he signed), Tom Brady, LT etc. are not team players because they want to be paid like the best players in the league, even if they are...


Media contrived?
The crotch sniffers would say so, I think not.
Retire his jersey?
No.

I was never saying he put his full effort into ever play, I was saying that most players (Especially WRs) take plays off, even if they don't admit to it.
I mean it's not like Merill Hoge isn't part of the media right?
Because it's not like our all-star RB Michael Bennett was able to sniff out holes with ease.
Haha, it seemed like 90% of Bennett runs were for under 3 yards.


He had a good game Sunday as including his 73-TD, he had seven catches for 158 yards. Moss eluded reporters by dressing in the trainers' room after the game. "When my mind ain't right, I get in trouble," Moss said to one reporter. "Right now, my mind ain't right."

Sure looks like he wasn't trying that game
::).
He's saying that when he's mad or frustrated he says things that get him in trouble, fortunately nobody here has that problem
::)



A professional representing the Minnesota Vikings?
No, I think not.
Retire his jersey?
You can't be serious.

Lol, put the self righteous facade away, like you can judge him, you weren't there.
You've never yelled at anyone before right?
I'm not saying he was right or professional to do so, but the only reason he was fined was because they were sponsors.
Not his brightest moment, but be realistic, not that big of a transgression.
Players, coaches and staff yell and swear all the time.



Cris Carter criticizes Moss, another respected player that represented the Vikings well is frustrated with him.

Did you read that quote?
Essentially Moss said he decides to play on the games that are scheduled by the commisioner (ooo, bad stuff I know) and Cris Carter says he'd rather play with the Green Bay Packers. Uh, huh, real loyalty to the team right?
Retire his Jersey? Oh wait it already is...

BTW Carter sure turned in an all-star performance in the 2000 NFC Championship game too didn't he.
If I recall he was the one yelling at his teamates on the sidelines that year...


Robert Smith, one of the most laid back guys to ever play for the Vikings, had 'run-ins' with Moss.
Retire his jersey?
No.

Please, Robert Smith was an arrogant, self centered player with an over-inflated sense of self importance.
Walking away from the team?
What a team player...like he has the right to question anyones dedication and desire to play.


The traffic incident was not his brightest moment, I will give you that, no excuses there except to say it was blown way out of proportion.



Smoking the hooch?
Retire his jersey?
No..

I get you, drug abuse definitely means you're a terrible person/player.
I mean look at Cris cart...I mean, wait, look at Michael Irv...I mean, look at Brett Far...oops...

Those types of players don't deserve any accolades.



Brain child. Retire his jersey? No.

I've never said he was smart.
Randy's #1 crime was that he always has his foot in his mouth, which IMO is not as huge a deal as the media and fans take it.



Wow, it's still all about Randy, years later.
Retire his jersey?
No..

Yah, he was definitely a me first player.
Players like Jerry Rice would never yell, throw their helmet and act like a child, oh wait...nevermind.


Wow, go Randy.
He's really supporting his team, what a team player.
It doesn't matter if it's true, you don't go badmouthing your team to the media.
I bet that really builds up team chemistry.
Retire his jersey?
No.

A player criticizing how a team's success in practice doesn't translate to the game, wow, he's a horrible person, players never do that
::).
I mean just a few months ago Antoine Winfield was talking about the amazing progress our offense has made
::)



Again, blabbing his mouth to the media about an internal team problem.
Retire his jersey?
I think not.

I guess being honest is a bad thing.
I mean I'm sure everyone in Oakland was satisfied with the direction of the team.
Moss is a player who wants to win, and that is what I respected most out of him, it was clear that that organization was not winning or attempting with any reall effort to win.
He shouldn't have said anything to the media, but again, Randy has a problem with saying things to the media he shouldn't.
Moss was trying to get traded, he just went about it the wrong (but usually most effective) way.



The facts are Moss made the majority of his mistakes in his first few years and that branded him in the eyes of the media and fans for the rest of his career.
He has always had a problem with saying to much to the media, but then again he isn't the first or only player in any sport to have that problem.
The fact is Moss put up Hall of Fame numbers in his years here, brought life to the team, is better than anyone who will ever wear that number again and was/is one of the most feared players in NFL history.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 04:49 PM
Definitely a sniffer.
Ignore the facts and support him regardless.
Have fun with that.
His jersey will never be retired in Minnesota.

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 04:54 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


Definitely a sniffer.
Ignore the facts and support him regardless.
Have fun with that.
His jersey will never be retired in Minnesota.


What fact did I ignore? I addressed everything you posted.

Whether his jersey is retired or not is irrelevant, I was making the point that it should be, not that it will be.

Is Moss the most professional or mature player, hell no, again that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

C Mac D
08-17-2007, 04:55 PM
Wow, you guys know your stuff (except for ItalianStallion). These are some intense posts.

Moss is a whiny child who didn't have the respect from his fellow players or coaches. I think those are some pretty good arguments against getting his number retired. I haven't read one of your arguments (ItalionStallion) to make me think any differently... in fact, they are all pretty convoluted.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 04:59 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


Definitely a sniffer.
Ignore the facts and support him regardless.
Have fun with that.
His jersey will never be retired in Minnesota.


What fact did I ignore? I addressed everything you posted.

Whether his jersey is retired or not is irrelevant, I was making the point that it should be, not that it will be.


Difference in opinion is all it is.

To me it's like being elected a fellow of a professional organization.
There are many people that have accomplished many things in their profession, but only a select few are fellows.
They are the people that not only excelled in their profession, but they also did things above and beyond what was expected.
They were team players that helped other people develop in the field.
They were the type of person that anyone would be honored to have as a mentor.
Moss is not deserving, that much is obvious.

Mr Anderson
08-17-2007, 05:04 PM
I'm really enjoying being a spectator in this thread. Usually I'm in the heat of the argument on the Moss issue.

And C Mac D, I'm glad to see you contributed with another great post. Saying Stallion doesn't know his stuff? He's contributed 10x as many facts to this argument as anyone else*. I think you should just throw out your keyboard and only click and read. Keep in mind this is a much easier solution than option 2(which involves removal of fingers)

*No offense to Proph or anyone else on the opposite side, but what you all are saying is basically subjective, there are a few facts in there but most of your arguments are about his character or on/off the field behavior are completely subjective, and I don't think anyone can judge him from that.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 05:05 PM
"Mr" wrote:


...
*No offense to Proph or anyone else on the opposite side, but what you all are saying is basically subjective, there are a few facts in there but most of your arguments are about his character or on/off the field behavior are completely subjective, and I don't think anyone can judge him from that.



Direct quotes from Moss and from his teammates are not subjective.

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 05:09 PM
"C" wrote:


Wow, you guys know your stuff (except for ItalianStallion). These are some intense posts.

Moss is a whiny child who didn't have the respect from his fellow players or coaches. I think those are some pretty good arguments against getting his number retired. I haven't read one of your arguments (ItalionStallion) to make me think any differently... in fact, they are all pretty convoluted.


lol, like I care about convincing you, just because you can't understand them doesn't mean I have to dumb them down.


It's all symptomatic of the ridiculous homerism some people have for their team.
It's really no surprise the stunning backlash media types get from posters whenever they say something negative about this team or its players, or the pathetic amount of praise they get when they say something positive.

Some people just put too much stock into what is written by reporters, and do not use their minds to realize 90% of what is reported is utter BS.
Of course you'll find articles where people have criticized Moss regarding everything under the sun, you were probably the same people who called those reporter idiots 4 years ago.

The only arguments I've been making are that Randy Moss should eventually have his numbered retired, based on the criteria I have set.
No one else has offered any alternative criteria (other than the vague "for what they have done for the team").

All that's been posted are articles about his mistakes (which I am perfectly aware of), but no arguments regarding how that distinguishes his from other legendary players without spotless records (would you like me to list them?).

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 05:10 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


...
*No offense to Proph or anyone else on the opposite side, but what you all are saying is basically subjective, there are a few facts in there but most of your arguments are about his character or on/off the field behavior are completely subjective, and I don't think anyone can judge him from that.



Direct quotes from Moss and from his teammates are not subjective.



Direct quotes from Moss are not, Direct quote from his teamates are.
For every quote you have saying he was a bad teamate, I could probably find just as many if not more saying he was a good one.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 05:12 PM
Here's the crux of my argument, since it was ignored I'll post it again.
Sniff your way out of this one.

To me it's like being elected a fellow of a professional organization.
There are many people that have accomplished many things in their profession, but only a select few are fellows.
They are the people that not only excelled in their profession, but they also did things above and beyond what was expected.
They were team players that helped other people develop in the field.
They were the type of person that anyone would be honored to have as a mentor.
Moss is not deserving, that much is obvious.

C Mac D
08-17-2007, 05:14 PM
"Mr" wrote:


I'm really enjoying being a spectator in this thread. Usually I'm in the heat of the argument on the Moss issue.

And C Mac D, I'm glad to see you contributed with another great post. Saying Stallion doesn't know his stuff? He's contributed 10x as many facts to this argument as anyone else*. I think you should just throw out your keyboard and only click and read. Keep in mind this is a much easier solution than option 2(which involves removal of fingers)

*No offense to Proph or anyone else on the opposite side, but what you all are saying is basically subjective, there are a few facts in there but most of your arguments are about his character or on/off the field behavior are completely subjective, and I don't think anyone can judge him from that.



Thats cool, but Moss's number still isn't going to be retired, no matter how many obscure facts he posts about Moss and his numbers, he can do it all day... doesn't matter. Retiring numbers is out of respect, something that the Vikings/Moss relationship lacked. I'm not trying to start an argument (hell, I'm already in... hell), it's just that the Vikings shouldn't, and won't recognize a player who conducted himself such as Moss did. I wish as much as anyone that Moss was still here, perhaps more mature, still putting up great numbers. He isn't because of his attitude and relationship with the team.

vike68
08-17-2007, 05:18 PM
ive been going to this forum for the past 9 years or more, and i never posted a single post. i just read, and lurked the forums to find any updates i might not have heard but this thread really pissed me off, did you guys not watch the interview with randy moss on fox sports north?

It was 3 days before he was traded to NE, they went deep into the minnesota relationship. He was completely blindsided from the organization he loved minnesota and he loved the fans in minnesota he planned on retiring a viking. The day denny green left minnesota, they began to tear down the organization and it began to turn into mike tices team, mike tice is absolutely the worst coach ive seen in the past 37 years of me watching minnesota play.

Moss no doubt should have his jersey retired in Minnesota, and maybe not now, but when he
is done playing football there is no doubt in my mind that he will. I'm absolutely appalled of how crude and disrespectful fellow viking fans are toward randy, in all the great vikings seasons ive seen, i think the 98 season was our year to win the super bowl and subtract gary andersons blown chip shot i think we would have. If we didn't have moss, 98-2004 we wouldn't have even been the team we were. I would wake up, and go tail gate in front of the metredome and not even have to worry about losing. When we were down to Jacksonville i didn't even sweat it, what did we win by? 50-10? something like that. Moss is the most explosive receiver to ever come to Minnesota, pull your head out of your ass and stop acting like a 12 year old holding grudges, when he isnt at fault .

sry for the typos, im a bit angry when i read posts like these

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 05:18 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


Here's the crux of my argument, since it was ignored I'll post it again.
Sniff your way out of this one.

To me it's like being elected a fellow of a professional organization.
There are many people that have accomplished many things in their profession, but only a select few are fellows.
They are the people that not only excelled in their profession, but they also did things above and beyond what was expected.
They were team players that helped other people develop in the field.
They were the type of person that anyone would be honored to have as a mentor.

Moss is not deserving, that much is obvious.


You see "did things above and beyond what was expected" as helping other develop, been a "team player" (As vague as that is)

I see "did things above and beyond what was expected" as doing more than what was expected where it really counted...on the field.

Find quotes from players like Nate Burleson, Kelly Campbell, regarding how bad a teamamate Moss was and how he didn't teach them anything or help them develop and I'll believe you.

There are many example where players do not fit your criteria but are still regarded as great players, you need look no furthur than Brett Farve who hasn't exactly helped out his fellow QBs.
Being a "lone wolf" type player does not disqualify you as a player worthy or recognition on a grand scale.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 05:21 PM
"vike68" wrote:


ive been going to this forum for the past 9 years or more, and i never posted a single post. i just read, and lurked the forums to find any updates i might not have heard but this thread really pissed me off, did you guys not watch the interview with randy moss on fox sports north?

It was 3 days before he was traded to NE, they went deep into the minnesota relationship. He was completely blindsided from the organization he loved minnesota and he loved the fans in minnesota he planned on retiring a viking. The day denny green left minnesota, they began to tear down the organization and it began to turn into mike tices team, mike tice is absolutely the worst coach ive seen in the past 37 years of me watching minnesota play.

Moss no doubt should have his jersey retired in Minnesota, and maybe not now, but when he
is done playing football there is no doubt in my mind that he will. I'm absolutely appalled of how crude and disrespectful fellow viking fans are toward randy, in all the great vikings seasons ive seen, i think the 98 season was our year to win the super bowl and subtract gary andersons blown chip shot i think we would have. If we didn't have moss, 98-2004 we wouldn't have even been the team we were. I would wake up, and go tail gate in front of the metredome and not even have to worry about losing. When we were down to Jacksonville i didn't even sweat it, what did we win by? 50-10? something like that. Moss is the most explosive receiver to ever come to Minnesota, pull your head out of your ass and stop acting like a 12 year old holding grudges, when he isnt at fault .

sry for the typos, im a bit angry when i read posts like these


lol, wow, a professional lurker.
Glad you're finally posting.
If for nothing else, this thread brought another fan out of the woodwork.

Oh yeah, guess what, it's a team game.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 05:23 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


Here's the crux of my argument, since it was ignored I'll post it again.
Sniff your way out of this one.

To me it's like being elected a fellow of a professional organization.
There are many people that have accomplished many things in their profession, but only a select few are fellows.
They are the people that not only excelled in their profession, but they also did things above and beyond what was expected.
They were team players that helped other people develop in the field.
They were the type of person that anyone would be honored to have as a mentor.

Moss is not deserving, that much is obvious.


You see "did things above and beyond what was expected" as helping other develop, been a "team player" (As vague as that is)

I see "did things above and beyond what was expected" as doing more than what was expected where it really counted...on the field.

Find quotes from players like Nate Burleson, Kelly Campbell, regarding how bad a teamamate Moss was and how he didn't teach them anything or help them develop and I'll believe you.

There are many example where players do not fit your criteria but are still regarded as great players, you need look no furthur than Brett Farve who hasn't exactly helped out his fellow QBs.
Being a "lone wolf" type player does not disqualify you as a player worthy or recognition on a grand scale.


We have reached the point of a circuitous argument.
You think he should be and I think he should not be.
You won't sway my opinion and I won't sway yours.
I am right though, his number will not be retired.


Spach, the true current owner of #84 on the Vikings squad.
Take that fact and chew on it.

vike68
08-17-2007, 05:26 PM
PAGE
FOREMAN
KRAUSE
etc

they all played this "team game"

how many retired numbers left the vikigns at one point or another, do you guys hate Tarkenton as well? i mean he left too. Moss didnt wanna leave, he was forced out by a bad owner and horrible head coach and now he should suffer from ignorant viking fans who hold grudges for no reason, something is wrong with that picture

C Mac D
08-17-2007, 05:26 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


ive been going to this forum for the past 9 years or more, and i never posted a single post. i just read, and lurked the forums to find any updates i might not have heard but this thread really pissed me off, did you guys not watch the interview with randy moss on fox sports north?

It was 3 days before he was traded to NE, they went deep into the minnesota relationship. He was completely blindsided from the organization he loved minnesota and he loved the fans in minnesota he planned on retiring a viking. The day denny green left minnesota, they began to tear down the organization and it began to turn into mike tices team, mike tice is absolutely the worst coach ive seen in the past 37 years of me watching minnesota play.

Moss no doubt should have his jersey retired in Minnesota, and maybe not now, but when he
is done playing football there is no doubt in my mind that he will. I'm absolutely appalled of how crude and disrespectful fellow viking fans are toward randy, in all the great vikings seasons ive seen, i think the 98 season was our year to win the super bowl and subtract gary andersons blown chip shot i think we would have. If we didn't have moss, 98-2004 we wouldn't have even been the team we were. I would wake up, and go tail gate in front of the metredome and not even have to worry about losing. When we were down to Jacksonville i didn't even sweat it, what did we win by? 50-10? something like that. Moss is the most explosive receiver to ever come to Minnesota, pull your head out of your jiggly butt and stop acting like a 12 year old holding grudges, when he isnt at fault .

sry for the typos, im a bit angry when i read posts like these


lol, wow, a professional lurker.
Glad you're finally posting.
If for nothing else, this thread brought another fan out of the woodwork.

Oh yeah, guess what, it's a team game.


Couldn't agree more. If you had REALLY been reading the postings you would know that the argument isn't against the fact that he was an explosive player, its about being a man of integrity na honor, who the whole team can look up to. Moss regularly had conflicts with Chris Carter and Daunte Culpepper (among others). For a player to say "I only play when I want to"... is ridiculous. I think thats a better point than any you made (which was what? a single Jacksonville game?)

For you to tell us to stop acting like 12 year-olds is a good way to start your first post.

vike68
08-17-2007, 05:27 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


Here's the crux of my argument, since it was ignored I'll post it again.
Sniff your way out of this one.

To me it's like being elected a fellow of a professional organization.
There are many people that have accomplished many things in their profession, but only a select few are fellows.
They are the people that not only excelled in their profession, but they also did things above and beyond what was expected.
They were team players that helped other people develop in the field.
They were the type of person that anyone would be honored to have as a mentor.
Moss is not deserving, that much is obvious.


You see "did things above and beyond what was expected" as helping other develop, been a "team player" (As vague as that is)

I see "did things above and beyond what was expected" as doing more than what was expected where it really counted...on the field.

Find quotes from players like Nate Burleson, Kelly Campbell, regarding how bad a teamamate Moss was and how he didn't teach them anything or help them develop and I'll believe you.

There are many example where players do not fit your criteria but are still regarded as great players, you need look no furthur than Brett Farve who hasn't exactly helped out his fellow QBs.
Being a "lone wolf" type player does not disqualify you as a player worthy or recognition on a grand scale.


We have reached the point of a circuitous argument.
You think he should be and I think he should not be.
You won't sway my opinion and I won't sway yours.
I am right though, his number will not be retired.


Spach, the true current owner of #84 on the Vikings squad.
Take that fact and chew on it.



its ok, he can be owner of the number until hes cut

Prophet
08-17-2007, 05:28 PM
"vike68" wrote:


PAGE
FOREMAN
KRAUSE
etc

they all played this "team game"

how many retired numbers left the vikigns at one point or another, do you guys hate Tarkenton as well? i mean he left too. Moss didnt wanna leave, he was forced out by a bad owner and horrible head coach and now he should suffer from ignorant viking fans who hold grudges for no reason, something is wrong with that picture


Ignorant fans that hold grudges?
Brilliant statement there.
Maybe you should read the support of the comments before starting to throw people into groupings?
You must be one of those true fans.

vike68
08-17-2007, 05:31 PM
"C" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


ive been going to this forum for the past 9 years or more, and i never posted a single post. i just read, and lurked the forums to find any updates i might not have heard but this thread really pissed me off, did you guys not watch the interview with randy moss on fox sports north?

It was 3 days before he was traded to NE, they went deep into the minnesota relationship. He was completely blindsided from the organization he loved minnesota and he loved the fans in minnesota he planned on retiring a viking. The day denny green left minnesota, they began to tear down the organization and it began to turn into mike tices team, mike tice is absolutely the worst coach ive seen in the past 37 years of me watching minnesota play.

Moss no doubt should have his jersey retired in Minnesota, and maybe not now, but when he
is done playing football there is no doubt in my mind that he will. I'm absolutely appalled of how crude and disrespectful fellow viking fans are toward randy, in all the great vikings seasons ive seen, i think the 98 season was our year to win the super bowl and subtract gary andersons blown chip shot i think we would have. If we didn't have moss, 98-2004 we wouldn't have even been the team we were. I would wake up, and go tail gate in front of the metredome and not even have to worry about losing. When we were down to Jacksonville i didn't even sweat it, what did we win by? 50-10? something like that. Moss is the most explosive receiver to ever come to Minnesota, pull your head out of your jiggly butt and stop acting like a 12 year old holding grudges, when he isnt at fault .

sry for the typos, im a bit angry when i read posts like these


lol, wow, a professional lurker.
Glad you're finally posting.
If for nothing else, this thread brought another fan out of the woodwork.

Oh yeah, guess what, it's a team game.


Couldn't agree more. If you had REALLY been reading the postings you would know that the argument isn't against the fact that he was an explosive player, its about being a man of integrity na honor, who the whole team can look up to. Moss regularly had conflicts with Chris Carter and Daunte Culpepper (among others). For a player to say "I only play when I want to"... is ridiculous. I think thats a better point than any you made (which was what? a single Jacksonville game?)

For you to tell us to stop acting like 12 year-olds is a good way to start your first post.





he was a kid, A KID
get that through your head, carter also fucked up
daunte cullpepper's head it was both of them
not just moss, carter used to yell at tons of quarterbacks
but because he played most of his career with Minnesota
you look at him in a different light.

he is the reason for the vikings major success in the late 90s
ears 2000s.


these may be my first posts but im sure ive watched the vikings longer
than you have, and ive been in these forums longer aswell just without posting
so you can take ur mighty 108 posts and shove em where the sun dont shine

vike68
08-17-2007, 05:33 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


PAGE
FOREMAN
KRAUSE
etc

they all played this "team game"

how many retired numbers left the vikigns at one point or another, do you guys hate Tarkenton as well? i mean he left too. Moss didnt wanna leave, he was forced out by a bad owner and horrible head coach and now he should suffer from ignorant viking fans who hold grudges for no reason, something is wrong with that picture


Ignorant fans that hold grudges?
Brilliant statement there.
Maybe you should read the support of the comments before starting to throw people into groupings?
You must be one of those true fans.



im sure if they took as manyquotes from the godly purple people eaters
as they do nowdays, with tons more press and all, they wouldn't be too nice, you want football to be a Cinderella story
and it isn't, its a business.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 05:34 PM
"vike68" wrote:


....
these may be my first posts but im sure ive watched the vikings longer
than you have, and ive been in these forums longer aswell just without posting
so you can take ur mighty 108 posts and shove em where the sun dont shine


lmao, i'm sure you know the routine.
Run over to the free beer section and introduce yourself.

Mr Anderson
08-17-2007, 05:36 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


....
these may be my first posts but im sure ive watched the vikings longer
than you have, and ive been in these forums longer aswell just without posting
so you can take ur mighty 108 posts and shove em where the sun dont shine


lmao, i'm sure you know the routine.
Run over to the free beer section and introduce yourself.



Hahaahahahahhaaha.
;D ;D

That was excellent.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 05:36 PM
"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


PAGE
FOREMAN
KRAUSE
etc

they all played this "team game"

how many retired numbers left the vikigns at one point or another, do you guys hate Tarkenton as well? i mean he left too. Moss didnt wanna leave, he was forced out by a bad owner and horrible head coach and now he should suffer from ignorant viking fans who hold grudges for no reason, something is wrong with that picture


Ignorant fans that hold grudges?
Brilliant statement there.
Maybe you should read the support of the comments before starting to throw people into groupings?
You must be one of those true fans.



im sure if they took as manyquotes from the godly purple people eaters
as they do nowdays, with tons more press and all, they wouldn't be too nice, you want football to be a Cinderella story
and it isn't, its a business.


A business should be run with the most integrity that it can be run with.
There were President's of the great US of A that did all kinds of stuff that we didn't know about in the old days.
Times have changed, we find out about stuff now.
That's reality.
If you want a known head case to represent your favorite team than that's your thing.
I don't.

vike68
08-17-2007, 05:38 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


PAGE
FOREMAN
KRAUSE
etc

they all played this "team game"

how many retired numbers left the vikigns at one point or another, do you guys hate Tarkenton as well? i mean he left too. Moss didnt wanna leave, he was forced out by a bad owner and horrible head coach and now he should suffer from ignorant viking fans who hold grudges for no reason, something is wrong with that picture


Ignorant fans that hold grudges?
Brilliant statement there.
Maybe you should read the support of the comments before starting to throw people into groupings?
You must be one of those true fans.



im sure if they took as manyquotes from the godly purple people eaters
as they do nowdays, with tons more press and all, they wouldn't be too nice, you want football to be a Cinderella story
and it isn't, its a business.


A business should be run with the most integrity that it can be run with.
There were President's of the great US of A that did all kinds of stuff that we didn't know about in the old days.
Times have changed, we find out about stuff now.
That's reality.
If you want a known head case to represent your favorite team than that's your thing.
I don't.


were talking football, not running the US
bad comparisson

BadlandsVikings
08-17-2007, 05:38 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


....
these may be my first posts but im sure ive watched the vikings longer
than you have, and ive been in these forums longer aswell just without posting
so you can take ur mighty 108 posts and shove em where the sun dont shine


lmao, i'm sure you know the routine.
Run over to the free beer section and introduce yourself.



Hahaahahahahhaaha.
;D ;D

That was excellent.


lol, he's haveing a bad day, first he goes to hell and then a lurker rips him apart
;D

Prophet
08-17-2007, 05:39 PM
"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


PAGE
FOREMAN
KRAUSE
etc

they all played this "team game"

how many retired numbers left the vikigns at one point or another, do you guys hate Tarkenton as well? i mean he left too. Moss didnt wanna leave, he was forced out by a bad owner and horrible head coach and now he should suffer from ignorant viking fans who hold grudges for no reason, something is wrong with that picture


Ignorant fans that hold grudges?
Brilliant statement there.
Maybe you should read the support of the comments before starting to throw people into groupings?
You must be one of those true fans.



im sure if they took as manyquotes from the godly purple people eaters
as they do nowdays, with tons more press and all, they wouldn't be too nice, you want football to be a Cinderella story
and it isn't, its a business.


A business should be run with the most integrity that it can be run with.
There were President's of the great US of A that did all kinds of stuff that we didn't know about in the old days.
Times have changed, we find out about stuff now.
That's reality.
If you want a known head case to represent your favorite team than that's your thing.
I don't.


were talking football, not running the US
bad comparisson


That wasn't the point.
The point is that we have information available to us and we use it.
The point is valid.

vike68
08-17-2007, 05:45 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:




PAGE
FOREMAN
KRAUSE
etc

they all played this "team game"

how many retired numbers left the vikigns at one point or another, do you guys hate Tarkenton as well? i mean he left too. Moss didnt wanna leave, he was forced out by a bad owner and horrible head coach and now he should suffer from ignorant viking fans who hold grudges for no reason, something is wrong with that picture


Ignorant fans that hold grudges?
Brilliant statement there.
Maybe you should read the support of the comments before starting to throw people into groupings?
You must be one of those true fans.



im sure if they took as manyquotes from the godly purple people eaters
as they do nowdays, with tons more press and all, they wouldn't be too nice, you want football to be a Cinderella story
and it isn't, its a business.


A business should be run with the most integrity that it can be run with.
There were President's of the great US of A that did all kinds of stuff that we didn't know about in the old days.
Times have changed, we find out about stuff now.
That's reality.
If you want a known head case to represent your favorite team than that's your thing.
I don't.


were talking football, not running the US
bad comparisson


That wasn't the point.
The point is that we have information available to us and we use it.
The point is valid.


Maybe we have to much information available to us, if moss played in the 70s-80s(he couldn't he would get broke in half) but if he had, and he said the things he said and did the things he did, hardly anyone would take notice. thats the problem nowadays, the nfl is turning into a
sissy league, suck it up and get over it.

gosh i miss the old days

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 05:45 PM
"C" wrote:



Couldn't agree more. If you had REALLY been reading the postings you would know that the argument isn't against the fact that he was an explosive player, its about being a man of integrity na honor, who the whole team can look up to. Moss regularly had conflicts with Chris Carter and Daunte Culpepper (among others). For a player to say "I only play when I want to"... is ridiculous. I think thats a better point than any you made (which was what? a single Jacksonville game?)

For you to tell us to stop acting like 12 year-olds is a good way to start your first post.




That was never the point, I was never claiming Moss was a saint, I was simply claiming that for whatever reason (the media tells you) he is held to unfair standard compared to other great players who have their faults.

Prophet
08-17-2007, 05:47 PM
"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:






PAGE
FOREMAN
KRAUSE
etc

they all played this "team game"

how many retired numbers left the vikigns at one point or another, do you guys hate Tarkenton as well? i mean he left too. Moss didnt wanna leave, he was forced out by a bad owner and horrible head coach and now he should suffer from ignorant viking fans who hold grudges for no reason, something is wrong with that picture


Ignorant fans that hold grudges?
Brilliant statement there.
Maybe you should read the support of the comments before starting to throw people into groupings?
You must be one of those true fans.



im sure if they took as manyquotes from the godly purple people eaters
as they do nowdays, with tons more press and all, they wouldn't be too nice, you want football to be a Cinderella story
and it isn't, its a business.


A business should be run with the most integrity that it can be run with.
There were President's of the great US of A that did all kinds of stuff that we didn't know about in the old days.
Times have changed, we find out about stuff now.
That's reality.
If you want a known head case to represent your favorite team than that's your thing.
I don't.


were talking football, not running the US
bad comparisson


That wasn't the point.
The point is that we have information available to us and we use it.
The point is valid.


Maybe we have to much information available to us, if moss played in the 70s-80s(he couldn't he would get broke in half) but if he had, and he said the things he said and did the things he did, hardly anyone would take notice. thats the problem nowadays, the nfl is turning into a
sissy league, suck it up and get over it.

gosh i miss the old days


That's it, and that's the point that Italian has been making too.
Oh well, we can all go home and watch the Vikings now and argue about something new tomorrow.

C Mac D
08-17-2007, 06:01 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"C" wrote:



Couldn't agree more. If you had REALLY been reading the postings you would know that the argument isn't against the fact that he was an explosive player, its about being a man of integrity na honor, who the whole team can look up to. Moss regularly had conflicts with Chris Carter and Daunte Culpepper (among others). For a player to say "I only play when I want to"... is ridiculous. I think thats a better point than any you made (which was what? a single Jacksonville game?)

For you to tell us to stop acting like 12 year-olds is a good way to start your first post.




That was never the point, I was never claiming Moss was a saint, I was simply claiming that for whatever reason (the media tells you) he is held to unfair standard compared to other great players who have their faults.


I see your point. The guy was given a bum wrap. I just don't think they will retire a guy's number who pretended to moon the Green Bay crowd.... on second thought...

ItalianStallion
08-17-2007, 06:02 PM
"Prophet" wrote:



That's it, and that's the point that Italian has been making too.
Oh well, we can all go home and watch the Vikings now and argue about something new tomorrow.


I heard T-Jack sucks, not because I've seen him play but based on his bad Madden ranking
:P

VikesFan4Life
08-17-2007, 07:05 PM
I don't think Moss' #84 will be retired.
Reasons why:
1.) The NFL kinda frowns on retiring numbers these days.
2.) The numbers 22 (Paul Krause-HOF), 64 (Randall McDaniel-future HOF), and 81 (Carl Eller-HOF); presently more-deserving players of number retirement (IMO), have not been retired as of yet and probably will never be.
3.) The Vikings have enough numbers retired.

Quick Fact: The Cowboys don't have a single retired number.
I think it's team policy.

Mr Anderson
08-17-2007, 07:17 PM
"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


"vike68" wrote:






PAGE
FOREMAN
KRAUSE
etc

they all played this "team game"

how many retired numbers left the vikigns at one point or another, do you guys hate Tarkenton as well? i mean he left too. Moss didnt wanna leave, he was forced out by a bad owner and horrible head coach and now he should suffer from ignorant viking fans who hold grudges for no reason, something is wrong with that picture


Ignorant fans that hold grudges?
Brilliant statement there.
Maybe you should read the support of the comments before starting to throw people into groupings?
You must be one of those true fans.



im sure if they took as manyquotes from the godly purple people eaters
as they do nowdays, with tons more press and all, they wouldn't be too nice, you want football to be a Cinderella story
and it isn't, its a business.


A business should be run with the most integrity that it can be run with.
There were President's of the great US of A that did all kinds of stuff that we didn't know about in the old days.
Times have changed, we find out about stuff now.
That's reality.
If you want a known head case to represent your favorite team than that's your thing.
I don't.


were talking football, not running the US
bad comparisson


That wasn't the point.
The point is that we have information available to us and we use it.
The point is valid.


Maybe we have to much information available to us, if moss played in the 70s-80s(he couldn't he would get broke in half) but if he had, and he said the things he said and did the things he did, hardly anyone would take notice. thats the problem nowadays, the nfl is turning into a
sissy league, suck it up and get over it.

gosh i miss the old days


Why couldn't Moss play in the 70's or 80's?

Frankly, a guy with his god-given talent could play in any era. Players nowadays are bigger faster and stronger than ever, and Moss was the fastest player on the field every game for the first 5 years of his career. IMO he would have been even better in the 70s and 80s. He's a freak.

"They call me the freak, man"

vikingivan
08-18-2007, 04:32 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


This thread wouldn't be complete without one of these.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RPM40/ppo/crotchdogJPG.jpg


lol, you can fall back on that tired old argument if you want.

Ignoring the facts while labeling posters is excellent for debate, is there one for people who play Madden (thus must know nothing about football) too?

I mean
it's not like old timer don't ride the jocks of players like Tarkenton, Krause, Foreman etc. who played against inferior athletes.
::)


Inferior atheltes??????
Oh yeah, you mean Dick Butkus, Mean Joe Green, Ray Nitchske and the greats of that era were inferior.
Your kidding right?

vike68
08-18-2007, 05:24 AM
they would tear his head off, you think that the evil players in the old days would just let him keep goin over the top, they would just wait for him once to try to do something like that and break his freakin neck, nfl is turning into a sissy league, u can barely tackle people anymore

Prophet
08-18-2007, 05:56 AM
"vike68" wrote:


they would tear his head off, you think that the evil players in the old days would just let him keep goin over the top, they would just wait for him once to try to do something like that and break his freakin neck, nfl is turning into a sissy league, u can barely tackle people anymore


Lot of truth to that.
Put some of those old timers in there and they were like sharks going after blood.
I'm not sure what Italian was referring to, I guess the relatively bigger size and quickness of players today.
The bust-face attitudes of the old-timers was awesome.
There is some truth to the sissy league comment.
Jack Youngblood could take some of these new age folks down today without any pads....tear out their kidneys and eat them in front of them (don't get too excited kidney muncher).

ejmat
08-18-2007, 02:29 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:



You compared Randy Moss to Cris Carter and cough cough Jerry Rice.
C'mon Stallion.
Those were two players that gave it their all every play.
Cris Carter learned the error of his ways before he even came to the Vikings.
You know you are entitled to your opinions and maybe you make some decent points but don't try to be sarcastic with my input.


I like Moss as much as anyone in here.
I wish him the best in NE as I did in Oakland.
but when I think about this thread it's rediculous to me.
I can care less one way or the other but IMO his number should not be retired for the Vikings.
Cris Carter should and Jerry Rice by all means should as a 49er.
Maybe if Moss would have done things the right way he would still be a Viking.
Unfortunately because of his antics he was traded.
The reason why his number will never be retired as a Viking.
Keep your opinion that's fine.
I will keep mine too.
But if you want to start being sarcastic I'll come back at you.


So Cris Carter's youthful transgressions are irrelevant to the type of player he was because they did not occur when he was on the vikings?
Is the point you're trying to make that mistakes made a person only define that person if they didn't occur as a member of the vikings?
If Cris Carter murdered 6 people tomorrow would he still deserve to have his Jersey retired?

Moss was nothing more than a young player who expressed his frustration with losing in a misguided way and lacked judgement you'd expect from someone in the spotlight.
He was not a bad teamate or someone who didn't want to win or only cared about the money.
If Moss played out his career as the model of a team player would you still feel the same way because of the mistakes he made in his first few seasons.

If Moss put up better numbers in his time here than Rice or Carter (players who apparently gave their all every play, presumably because they didn't say otherwise) did in their first 7 seasons, on a half effort, is remarkable, almost impossible one might even say.
Jerry Rice was the typical WR who ran out of bounds and avoided hits in order to "prolong his career".
Is that the definition of a player who gives their all every play? In general, no, but WRs always go by different standards don't they?
Nobody ever complain that Torry Holt or Issace Bruce take a slide rather than fight for a few extra yards and risk getting hit.
Even if Moss wasn't trying on plays he wasn't getting passed to he was still comanding the same double teams that Jerry Rice or Cris Carter were.

lol, if you think Moss was traded because of his antics, you are naive.
He had those "antics" for 7 seasons (even before if you count college), he was still drafted and nothing was done, why?
Because he never missed a game and produced like no other.
AS soon as the injuries started to become more prevalent, and he started to miss time, he was shipped off while his value was still relatively high.

It was a business decision based on facts and numbers, not a personal one based on a sudden disgust at his oh-so reprehensible behaviour
::)


I love how you put words in my mouth Stallion.
No Cris Carter's problems were not irrelevent because he wasn't a Viking yet.
First of all Cris Carter was always a TEAM player.
After all wasn't he the one that took people under his wings and mentored them even though they were taking his job?
Do you think Moss would do that?
Give me a break.


You think I'm naive because I think Moss was traded because of his antics?
Look in the mirror if you don't think that was why.
Sure, part of it was Red wanting to sell the team.
Don't you think the other part of it was because some or most of his teammates didn't appreciate the things he was doing?
Yeah, I'm naive.
cough, cough!
Yes he had those same antics for 7 years but there comes a time where people get fed up with it.
Especially if the people that were getting fed up with it weren't the same people that drafted him and mentored him.


Read some of the quotes that were posted to your message.
For instance, '...it would be hard winning a superbowl here."
"...I onlyu play when I want to."
Yeah, those are comments coming from a person I would want to give an honor of retiring his jersey.
Again, it's not just about stats.

You keep thinking his number should and will be retired as a Viking.
I won't.
Let's see who's more dissapointed when it's all said and done.

Purple Floyd
08-18-2007, 04:01 PM
I am not sure about Moss but I guarantee someday they will retire Tyler Thigpen's number.

NDVikingFan66
08-18-2007, 10:33 PM
I loved Moss and his highlights, but I hated the other things he brought to this organization.

In addition....Moss does not deserve to be mentioned with this list of players

#10 Fran Tarkenton, #88 Alan Page, #70 Jim Marshall, #22 Paul Krause, #77 Korey Stringer, #53 Mick Tingelhoff, #80 Cris Carter

Also, I am not a big fan of retiring jerseys anyway.
In theory, at some point you would have enought numbers left to field a team :)

gregair13
08-18-2007, 11:49 PM
Rice can wear #84 imo

ItalianStallion
08-20-2007, 12:36 PM
"vikingivan" wrote:



Inferior atheltes??????
Oh yeah, you mean slick willy Butkus, Mean Joe Green, Ray Nitchske and the greats of that era were inferior.
Your kidding right?


On average yes.
I'd be willing to say the average NFL player today is twice the athlete as those 30 -40 years ago.
That being said, there were obviously superstars then that could succeed even in today's NFL, I'm simply saying that they would have to deal with better competition.
For example I doubt Butkus would look as good covering Antonio Gates or fighting off blocks from O-lineman who weigh 50-60 pounds more than they did in his era.
It's a year round job now and players work out and practice year round.

ItalianStallion
08-20-2007, 12:55 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


I love how you put words in my mouth Stallion.
No Cris Carter's problems were not irrelevent because he wasn't a Viking yet.
First of all Cris Carter was always a TEAM player.
After all wasn't he the one that took people under his wings and mentored them even though they were taking his job?
Do you think Moss would do that?
Give me a break.


Define team player.
In his last seasons here he was often mixing it up on the sideline, yelling at teamates, not to mention he ditched the team because he thought they had no chance at a superbowl...(judge Carter more based on his actions than you do Moss based on his words)

I distinctly remember players like Nate Burleson, Kelly Campbell and other young WRs in training camps telling the media how they have learned a lot playing/practicing with Moss.
You don't have to be a mentor to be a good player or teamate either, that's what coaches are for.




You think I'm naive because I think Moss was traded because of his antics?
Look in the mirror if you don't think that was why.
Sure, part of it was Red wanting to sell the team.
Don't you think the other part of it was because some or most of his teammates didn't appreciate the things he was doing?
Yeah, I'm naive.
cough, cough!
Yes he had those same antics for 7 years but there comes a time where people get fed up with it.
Especially if the people that were getting fed up with it weren't the same people that drafted him and mentored him.




The antics excuse for his trade was simply a PR move, try reading in between the lines.
Walking off the field was the only "incident" (if you can even call it that, because there are many players I'm sure who have done it before) Moss had in his final few seasons with use.
Most of the things that people hold against him (his "I play when I want to play" comments being the main one) happened in his first few, when he was young, stupid, and not media savvy.
Besides, he vindicated himself by being the best player on the field against Green Bay in the playoffs (while injured I might add).

It had nothing to do with Red wanting to sell the team, the Vikings were a more valuable product with Moss on the roster.

McKinnie, Smoot, Culpepper etc. were not dealt because of their conduct (which IMO was more detrimental to the team) regarding the Love Boat incident.

If the antics really bothered people they would have dealt with them after his first few seasons (lol, who drafts a player with character issues and keeps them for 7 YEARS if those thing are a problem), when they were most objectionable, but oh lets not forget, he was the best WR in the league then, so they waited until he wasn't...

Hell, we even brought in K-Rob, who had more serious off-field antics like alcohol abuse and drunk driving a year after shipping off Moss for walking of the field with 2 second left, real consistent there...

ejmat
08-20-2007, 03:34 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


I love how you put words in my mouth Stallion.
No Cris Carter's problems were not irrelevent because he wasn't a Viking yet.
First of all Cris Carter was always a TEAM player.
After all wasn't he the one that took people under his wings and mentored them even though they were taking his job?
Do you think Moss would do that?
Give me a break.


Define team player.
In his last seasons here he was often mixing it up on the sideline, yelling at teamates, not to mention he ditched the team because he thought they had no chance at a superbowl...(judge Carter more based on his actions than you do Moss based on his words)

I distinctly remember players like Nate Burleson, Kelly Campbell and other young WRs in training camps telling the media how they have learned a lot playing/practicing with Moss.
You don't have to be a mentor to be a good player or teamate either, that's what coaches are for.




You think I'm naive because I think Moss was traded because of his antics?
Look in the mirror if you don't think that was why.
Sure, part of it was Red wanting to sell the team.
Don't you think the other part of it was because some or most of his teammates didn't appreciate the things he was doing?
Yeah, I'm naive.
cough, cough!
Yes he had those same antics for 7 years but there comes a time where people get fed up with it.
Especially if the people that were getting fed up with it weren't the same people that drafted him and mentored him.




The antics excuse for his trade was simply a PR move, try reading in between the lines.
Walking off the field was the only "incident" (if you can even call it that, because there are many players I'm sure who have done it before) Moss had in his final few seasons with use.
Most of the things that people hold against him (his "I play when I want to play" comments being the main one) happened in his first few, when he was young, stupid, and not media savvy.
Besides, he vindicated himself by being the best player on the field against Green Bay in the playoffs (while injured I might add).

It had nothing to do with Red wanting to sell the team, the Vikings were a more valuable product with Moss on the roster.

McKinnie, Smoot, Culpepper etc. were not dealt because of their conduct (which IMO was more detrimental to the team) regarding the Love Boat incident.

If the antics really bothered people they would have dealt with them after his first few seasons (lol, who drafts a player with character issues and keeps them for 7 YEARS if those thing are a problem), when they were most objectionable, but oh lets not forget, he was the best WR in the league then, so they waited until he wasn't...

Hell, we even brought in K-Rob, who had more serious off-field antics like alcohol abuse and drunk driving a year after shipping off Moss for walking of the field with 2 second left, real consistent there...


You are killing me.
You don't think part of the reason why he was traded was because Red was selling the team?
That was part of the deal so the buyer could afford the team.
Yes other people were brought in with more off the field problems.
We are not arguing over whether or not KRob should have his jersey retired.

Not sure why you are bad mouthing Carter.
The guy had a drug problem that he worked on and got over.
Not a good thing but he did overcome it.
Then became an awesome football player.
If you had a 3rd down who would you go to Carter or Moss?
Moss was great for us.
I'm not saying that but Carter clearly had better hands than Moss.
As far as Carter leaving the team, sure I was pissed at that but I never said he should have his jersey retired either.
Although, he would deserve it more than Moss IMO.

The antics did bother players.
Matt Birk interviewed and flat out stated walking off the field when the game wasn't over pissed him off.
Who keps a player for 7 years with antics?
Let's see he was drafted by Green in 1998.
Green was no longer coach after 2001.
Tice kept him because they didn't bother HIM.

I'm not arguing whether or not Moss is a good football player.
He's an awesome football player and I still like the guy.
The question is should his jersey be retired as a Viking.
NO!
Has he gotten better over the past couple of years as far as staying out of trouble?
Yes he has.
That doesn't take away from him running his car into someone or showing bad sportsmanship on several occasions (squirting a ref and walking off the field).
Do I understand his frustration?
Of course I do.
It doesn't mean I condone his actions.
Again, if you are going to ask if Moss' jersey should be retired, my opinion is NO.
You can keep your opinion.
That's fine.
We'll see whether or not it happens.

ItalianStallion
08-20-2007, 04:14 PM
You don't think part of the reason why he was traded was because Red was selling the team?That was part of the deal so the buyer could afford the team.

I guess I just don't remember that being the issue with the sale.
In fact if I recall, Reggie Fowler (who was the head of the ownership group at the time) stated they were not planning on trading Moss, which leads me to believe that in no way did they want Moss gone.
Red obviously took liberties of his own, or there were details regarding this that were never leaked to the public




We are not arguing over whether or not KRob should have his jersey retired.

I brought that up to highlight the inconsistency with the argument that Moss' trade was due to the organization trying to "clean up its image" or "getting fed up with WRs who have character problems"


Not sure why you are bad mouthing Carter.
The guy had a drug problem that he worked on and got over.
Not a good thing but he did overcome it.
Then became an awesome football player.

I really don't have a problem with Carter, I'm a big fan.
I'm also a big fan of Moss.
Both did things in their careers as football players that are less than admirable and unbecoming of a "perfect" person.
However I understand their both human, and understand people make mistakes, especially when they're young.
I just don't understand how people can be so pro-Carter and at the same time so anti-Moss, when realistically they both have checkered pasts and a list of bad decisions/actions that didn't help the team or their perception.
The only thing I would say is Carter was a lot more media savvy or cared about his public image more.




If you had a 3rd down who would you go to Carter or Moss?
Moss was great for us.
I'm not saying that but Carter clearly had better hands than Moss.
As far as Carter leaving the team, sure I was pissed at that but I never said he should have his jersey retired either.
Although, he would deserve it more than Moss IMO.

I would agree Carter deserves it more as well, simply because he had a longer career here, however you can't compare apples and oranges.
Both were different types of receivers.
If it was 3rd and 10 I would rather have Carter, if it was 3rd and 20, I'd rather have Moss.
Carter was a more reliable, possesion type receiver, but moss was a more explosive playmaker.
Moss was better at making remarkable/difficult catches, Carter was better at make all his catches.



The antics did bother players.
Matt Birk interviewed and flat out stated walking off the field when the game wasn't over pissed him off.
Who keps a player for 7 years with antics?
Let's see he was drafted by Green in 1998.
Green was no longer coach after 2001.
Tice kept him because they didn't bother HIM.


Well, he was traded with Tice as coach, so he obviously had no say in it ever.
Moss wasn't the perfect teamate in the sense he got along with everyone, but he is a NFL football player not an NFL football teamate, Moss played his a$$ off that game, had a ridiculous TD catch, and had another deep TD catch called back because of a holding call.
You can't blame him for being frustrated with the other players that the game was turning out to be Arizona act II.
Did he go about it the right way, no, but I can't say that I blame him (given how frustrated I was at the time).

My point is not that Moss' jersey will be retired, but rather that if the only things holding up the possible retirement of his jersey are he media comments and incidents I see it as a non-issue, since they never affected his play, and other greats are rarely called into their account for their less than pristine personal record.
I just find it frustrating how some fans can suddenly adopt the media witch hunt point of view after being Moss apologists as as long as he was a Viking.

C Mac D
08-20-2007, 04:18 PM
Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?

ItalianStallion
08-20-2007, 04:48 PM
"C" wrote:


Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


I'm notoriously stubborn
:D

cajunvike
08-20-2007, 04:49 PM
"C" wrote:


Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


Hardly!
You should have seen some of the battles back in the day when we still had the Politics forum!
Those were the days, my friend...I thought they'd never end...those were the days...oh yes, those were the days!

cogitans
08-20-2007, 04:52 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


Hardly!
You should have seen some of the battles back in the day when we still had the Politics forum!
Those were the days, my friend...I thought they'd never end...those were the days...oh yes, those were the days!


I'm sure I've missed out. I wish I had been here back then.

But I understand why Webby doesn't want to moderate that, or even have others do it. Plus it's not really what this site is about.

cajunvike
08-20-2007, 05:00 PM
"cogitans" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


Hardly!
You should have seen some of the battles back in the day when we still had the Politics forum!
Those were the days, my friend...I thought they'd never end...those were the days...oh yes, those were the days!


I'm sure I've missed out. I wish I had been here back then.

But I understand why Webby doesn't want to moderate that, or even have others do it. Plus it's not really what this site is about.


Yeah...but it was SO MUCH FUN!!!
;)

Prophet
08-20-2007, 05:01 PM
Yeah, there's nothing like going to a Vikings site to talk politics.
It's like setting yourself up for a moronic debate.
I typically like to frequent political sites and discuss the Vikings, it makes me feel like I'm not an idiot.

cajunvike
08-20-2007, 05:04 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


Yeah, there's nothing like going to a Vikings site to talk politics.
It's like setting yourself up for a moronic debate.
I typically like to frequent political sites and discuss the Vikings, it makes me feel like I'm not an idiot.


Even you seem to like the opportunities that it presents:

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=36894.10

Prophet
08-20-2007, 05:06 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


Yeah, there's nothing like going to a Vikings site to talk politics.
It's like setting yourself up for a moronic debate.
I typically like to frequent political sites and discuss the Vikings, it makes me feel like I'm not an idiot.


Even you seem to like the opportunities that it presents:

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=36894.10


That's because I'm an idiot, that much should have been obvious.

cajunvike
08-20-2007, 05:07 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


"Prophet" wrote:


Yeah, there's nothing like going to a Vikings site to talk politics.
It's like setting yourself up for a moronic debate.
I typically like to frequent political sites and discuss the Vikings, it makes me feel like I'm not an idiot.


Even you seem to like the opportunities that it presents:

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=36894.10


That's because I'm an idiot, that much should have been obvious.


Duh!

cogitans
08-20-2007, 05:13 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


Hardly!
You should have seen some of the battles back in the day when we still had the Politics forum!
Those were the days, my friend...I thought they'd never end...those were the days...oh yes, those were the days!


I'm sure I've missed out. I wish I had been here back then.

But I understand why Webby doesn't want to moderate that, or even have others do it. Plus it's not really what this site is about.


Yeah...but it was SO MUCH FUN!!!
;)


I'm sure it was.

ejmat
08-20-2007, 06:28 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


I'm notoriously stubborn
:D


I am too!
;D


We do agree that we are big fans of both Carter and Moss.
In fact, I would love to see Moss come back someday.
I wish he would now.
However, I don't think that would happen.
As far as the retired jersey thing, I am against it most of the time.
I think you have to be extremely special for this type of honor.
IMO, as good as Moss is, he doesn't warrant this type of honor.
The fact is anyone can wear #84.
It doesn't mean they can replace Moss.
Nor does anyone think they are replacing Moss.

cajunvike
08-20-2007, 06:37 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


I'm notoriously stubborn
:D


I am too!

;D


We do agree that we are big fans of both Carter and Moss.
In fact, I would love to see Moss come back someday.
I wish he would now.
However, I don't think that would happen.
As far as the retired jersey thing, I am against it most of the time.
I think you have to be extremely special for this type of honor.
IMO, as good as Moss is, he doesn't warrant this type of honor.

The fact is anyone can wear #84.
It doesn't mean they can replace Moss.
Nor does anyone think they are replacing Moss.




Good call, ej!

Maybe after we get good again, Moss will come crawling back to get a ring with the Vikes...after he fails to get one with the Putzies!
:P

ejmat
08-21-2007, 10:56 AM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


I'm notoriously stubborn
:D


I am too!

;D


We do agree that we are big fans of both Carter and Moss.
In fact, I would love to see Moss come back someday.
I wish he would now.
However, I don't think that would happen.
As far as the retired jersey thing, I am against it most of the time.
I think you have to be extremely special for this type of honor.
IMO, as good as Moss is, he doesn't warrant this type of honor.

The fact is anyone can wear #84.
It doesn't mean they can replace Moss.
Nor does anyone think they are replacing Moss.




Good call, ej!

Maybe after we get good again, Moss will come crawling back to get a ring with the Vikes...after he fails to get one with the Putzies!
:P


Honestly, I wouldn't mind him coming back unless we have solid WRs 1-4 on the team.
At that point I would say no but who the hell am I?
LOL

Mr Anderson
08-21-2007, 01:33 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"C" wrote:


Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


I'm notoriously stubborn
:D


I am too!
;D


We do agree that we are big fans of both Carter and Moss.
In fact, I would love to see Moss come back someday.
I wish he would now.
However, I don't think that would happen.
As far as the retired jersey thing, I am against it most of the time.
I think you have to be extremely special for this type of honor.
IMO, as good as Moss is, he doesn't warrant this type of honor.
The fact is anyone can wear #84.
It doesn't mean they can replace Moss.
Nor does anyone think they are replacing Moss.




Good call, ej!

Maybe after we get good again, Moss will come crawling back to get a ring with the Vikes...after he fails to get one with the Putzies!
:P


Honestly, I wouldn't mind him coming back unless we have solid WRs 1-4 on the team.
At that point I would say no but who the hell am I?
LOL


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.

cajunvike
08-21-2007, 01:39 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:




Is this the longest running argument in PPO history?


I'm notoriously stubborn
:D


I am too!

;D


We do agree that we are big fans of both Carter and Moss.
In fact, I would love to see Moss come back someday.
I wish he would now.
However, I don't think that would happen.
As far as the retired jersey thing, I am against it most of the time.
I think you have to be extremely special for this type of honor.
IMO, as good as Moss is, he doesn't warrant this type of honor.

The fact is anyone can wear #84.
It doesn't mean they can replace Moss.
Nor does anyone think they are replacing Moss.




Good call, ej!

Maybe after we get good again, Moss will come crawling back to get a ring with the Vikes...after he fails to get one with the Putzies!
:P


Honestly, I wouldn't mind him coming back unless we have solid WRs 1-4 on the team.
At that point I would say no but who the hell am I?
LOL


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


I'd take a group of solid receivers and a Super Bowl win over a spectacular receiver and NO Super Bowl win ANY DAY!

Zeus
08-21-2007, 02:02 PM
"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.

=Z=

Mr Anderson
08-21-2007, 02:13 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.

=Z=


We'll see about that Zeus.

You know how he plays when he has something to prove, you saw it year in and year out when he was with us.

Plus he has the motivation of money this season, he's only on a one year $3 million contract, that's a big step down from his 8 year $75 million deal.



and Cajun, I'm not saying I'd rather have one spectacular receiver than 4 solid ones. I'm saying I would get rid of one of our solid 4 and replace them with a spectacular receiver. Giving us 3 solid and 1 spectacular.

ItalianStallion
08-21-2007, 02:17 PM
[quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=36736.msg621725#msg621725 Plus he has the motivation of money this season, he's only on a one year $3 million contract, that's a big step down from his 8 year $75 million deal.



and Cajun, I'm not saying I'd rather have one spectacular receiver than 4 solid ones. I'm saying I would get rid of one of our solid 4 and replace them with a spectacular receiver. Giving us 3 solid and 1 spectacular.
[/quote]

I don't think Moss is really that concerned about money anymore, otherwise he wouldn't have said he wouldn't renegotiate his salary if he was traded anywhere other than NE.
He wants to win a championship otherwise he'd stay in Oakland and make 3 times what he's making now.

Zeus
08-21-2007, 02:18 PM
"Mr" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.


We'll see about that Zeus.

You know how he plays when he has something to prove, you saw it year in and year out when he was with us.


Oh, please.
When the entire NFL was pointing him out for being a complete joke in Oakland, a time when he should have had "something to prove", he did jack squat.


But setting that aside, I'm mostly talking about that he's barely practiced this pre-season and hasn't played one single down.
He can't stay healthy - that's been his track record the past 3 seasons.

He hasn't been "spectacular" in 3 seasons.
And now, he can't even get on the field.
That's the kind of player you want on your team?

=Z=

jmcdon00
08-21-2007, 02:22 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.


We'll see about that Zeus.

You know how he plays when he has something to prove, you saw it year in and year out when he was with us.


Oh, please.
When the entire NFL was pointing him out for being a complete joke in Oakland, a time when he should have had "something to prove", he did jack squat.


But setting that aside, I'm mostly talking about that he's barely practiced this pre-season and hasn't played one single down.
He can't stay healthy - that's been his track record the past 3 seasons.

He hasn't been "spectacular" in 3 seasons.
And now, he can't even get on the field.
That's the kind of player you want on your team?

=Z=

He may not be what he once was, but I have a feeling he would make the vikings squad.
You must remember that Oakland had one of the worst offenses in recent memory. I think the patriots will get him the rock with a path to the endzone a few times this year.

Mr Anderson
08-21-2007, 02:22 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.


We'll see about that Zeus.

You know how he plays when he has something to prove, you saw it year in and year out when he was with us.


Oh, please.
When the entire NFL was pointing him out for being a complete joke in Oakland, a time when he should have had "something to prove", he did jack squat.


But setting that aside, I'm mostly talking about that he's barely practiced this pre-season and hasn't played one single down.
He can't stay healthy - that's been his track record the past 3 seasons.

He hasn't been "spectacular" in 3 seasons.
And now, he can't even get on the field.
That's the kind of player you want on your team?

=Z=


And watch, the second he does step on the field, even if he's still injured, he'll be double covered. Leaving Donte Stallworth or Wes Welker in single coverage, producing more for their offense without getting a single reception than any wide receiver we have will this season.

BloodyHorns82
08-21-2007, 02:27 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.

=Z=


The 2007 season hasn't even started yet...
You must be referring to the Moss of 05' and 06' who played on a horrendous offense that was poorly coached.

ejmat
08-21-2007, 02:42 PM
I think Randy will be effective this year but I would have to see how our WRs do this year to say whether or not I would want him here.
Right now, I would say I want him here but that's because there's a lot of questions at the position.
However, after this season (when his contract is over) I could tell you whether or not he'd be a good fit.
If some of the younger prospects step up like we think they can there would be no reason to bring him back.
Young talented WRs can can get the job done are what's best for this club.
Not a WR that may be past his prime (albeit Randy Moss).

Zeus
08-21-2007, 03:53 PM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.


The 2007 season hasn't even started yet...
You must be referring to the Moss of 05' and 06' who played on a horrendous offense that was poorly coached.


No, I'm referring to the Moss of '07 who hasn't practiced in weeks because of bad hamstrings.

=Z=

Marrdro
08-21-2007, 03:56 PM
Can't believe this thing is still going.

http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/images/chap05_energizer_bunny.jpg

cajunvike
08-21-2007, 03:58 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.


The 2007 season hasn't even started yet...
You must be referring to the Moss of 05' and 06' who played on a horrendous offense that was poorly coached.


No, I'm referring to the Moss of '07 who hasn't practiced in weeks because of bad hamstrings.

=Z=


Well, he's either REALLY hurting...or it's just Belichick screwing around with the injury list again and sandbagging the rest of the league.
I wonder if Tom Brady will be on the injury list every week again this season.

cogitans
08-21-2007, 04:00 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.


The 2007 season hasn't even started yet...
You must be referring to the Moss of 05' and 06' who played on a horrendous offense that was poorly coached.


No, I'm referring to the Moss of '07 who hasn't practiced in weeks because of bad hamstrings.

=Z=


Well, he's either REALLY hurting...or it's just Belichick screwing around with the injury list again and sandbagging the rest of the league.
I wonder if Tom Brady will be on the injury list every week again this season.


Bank on it.

Prophet
08-21-2007, 04:00 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


If we had a "solid 1-4" I'd still take him back. I'll boot a solid receiver for a spectacular receiver any day.


Spectacular receiver?
You mean, the Vikings would get the Randy Moss of 2003?

Because the Randy Moss of 2007 is a broken-down shell of his former self.


The 2007 season hasn't even started yet...
You must be referring to the Moss of 05' and 06' who played on a horrendous offense that was poorly coached.


No, I'm referring to the Moss of '07 who hasn't practiced in weeks because of bad hamstrings.

=Z=


It is all part of Belichick's genius plan.
Make the savior feign that he is wounded and then come out and 'surprise' the opposing teams.
That's the latest crotch sniffing argument.

Zeus
08-21-2007, 04:03 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


Well, he's either REALLY hurting...or it's just Belichick screwing around with the injury list again and sandbagging the rest of the league.
I wonder if Tom Brady will be on the injury list every week again this season.


What injury list?
He's NOT practicing.
Period.
There's no Belichek BS here - he's not on the field because he's hurt.

=Z=

Prophet
08-21-2007, 04:04 PM
Spach, the rightful owner of #84 on the Vikings!



GO SPACH!!!!!!

cajunvike
08-21-2007, 04:17 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


Well, he's either REALLY hurting...or it's just Belichick screwing around with the injury list again and sandbagging the rest of the league.
I wonder if Tom Brady will be on the injury list every week again this season.


What injury list?
He's NOT practicing.
Period.
There's no Belichek BS here - he's not on the field because he's hurt.

=Z=


OR Beli is just holding him back...because the GOOD Randy Moss don't need no practice reps!
AND even IF he is hurt, it could be not as bad as we all are being led to believe.

Take off your New England hat, Zeus...you are a VIKINGS fan...and the rest of the teams are collectively THE ENEMY!!!
:P

Zeus
08-21-2007, 04:28 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


Well, he's either REALLY hurting...or it's just Belichick screwing around with the injury list again and sandbagging the rest of the league.
I wonder if Tom Brady will be on the injury list every week again this season.


What injury list?
He's NOT practicing.
Period.
There's no Belichek BS here - he's not on the field because he's hurt.


OR Beli is just holding him back...because the GOOD Randy Moss don't need no practice reps!
AND even IF he is hurt, it could be not as bad as we all are being led to believe.

Take off your New England hat, Zeus...you are a VIKINGS fan...and the rest of the teams are collectively THE ENEMY!!!
:P


You're the idiot who's proclaiming this all to be a plot of the Great Master Bill Belichek.

I'm the one saying "Randy's old and hurt.
Ick."

Lord, you have some SERIOUS reading comprehension problems sometimes, dood.

=Z=

cajunvike
08-21-2007, 04:31 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


"Zeus" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


Well, he's either REALLY hurting...or it's just Belichick screwing around with the injury list again and sandbagging the rest of the league.
I wonder if Tom Brady will be on the injury list every week again this season.


What injury list?
He's NOT practicing.
Period.
There's no Belichek BS here - he's not on the field because he's hurt.


OR Beli is just holding him back...because the GOOD Randy Moss don't need no practice reps!
AND even IF he is hurt, it could be not as bad as we all are being led to believe.

Take off your New England hat, Zeus...you are a VIKINGS fan...and the rest of the teams are collectively THE ENEMY!!!
:P


You're the idiot who's proclaiming this all to be a plot of the Great Master Bill Belichek.

I'm the one saying "Randy's old and hurt.
Ick."

Lord, you have some SERIOUS reading comprehension problems sometimes, dood.

=Z=



No reading problems...just furthering my conspiracy theories, that's all.
It's what keeps 'em coming back for more!
;)

cajunvike
08-22-2007, 05:57 PM
"Zeus" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


Well, he's either REALLY hurting...or it's just Belichick screwing around with the injury list again and sandbagging the rest of the league.
I wonder if Tom Brady will be on the injury list every week again this season.


What injury list?
He's NOT practicing.
Period.
There's no Belichek BS here - he's not on the field because he's hurt.

=Z=


New England Patriots: Randy Moss strolled through the Patriots' locker room with a smile and without a limp. When it came time for the start of Wednesday's practice, though, he was a no-show -- again.
The wide receiver is one of several key players who, because of physical woes or contract problems, haven't practiced much, if at all, this summer.

Two former Pro Bowl players, defensive lineman Richard Seymour and wide receiver Troy Brown, have been on the physically unable to perform list since training camp started. Cornerback Asante Samuel has held out since camp began for a new contract.

Not practicing, though, doesn't mean a player won't get into the next game.

"I've been in situations before," wide receiver Donte' Stallworth said, "where a certain guy's been in the offense for at least five or six years and really didn't practice that much because of an injury but came out and knew exactly what he was doing. But if you're a new guy not really familiar with everything, it will be a little harder."

On Wednesday, Tom Brady wasn't on the field or sidelines for the first 15 minutes of practice that were open to the media. The quarterback had said Monday he wanted a few days off to attend the birth of his first child. Actress Bridget Moynahan, his former girlfriend, is expected to give birth any day, but her spokesperson said Wednesday there was no news.

Brady skipped practice the previous Wednesday and has tried to rest his arm more than in the past.

YEAH...he's hurt...his feeling might be hurt...but that's about it!

cogitans
09-06-2007, 02:18 PM
*Several players changed their number today. Most notably, rookie WR Aundrae Allison went from No. 14 to No. 84. Allison will be the first player to wear 84 in a regular season game since Randy Moss was traded to Oakland after the 2004 season.

Link (http://www.startribune.com/blogs/vikings/?p=937)

Prophet
09-06-2007, 02:24 PM
This thread gives me tears of joy.

C Mac D
09-06-2007, 02:26 PM
I hope he lives up to it.
:-

Marrdro
09-06-2007, 02:27 PM
I have several Moss jersey's.
Gonna get me new name tags for a couple of them.
;D

ejmat
09-06-2007, 04:22 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


I have several Moss jersey's.
Gonna get me new name tags for a couple of them.

;D


What a great idea.
I will do the same.
As I've said before in previous threads I honestly think Allison has some game and can make a name for himself in the NFL.
I guess time will tell if I was right.

AngloVike
09-06-2007, 04:23 PM
"C" wrote:


I hope he lives up to it.
:-\

the only thing he has to live up to is the Viking shirt not the number. There were #84's before Moss and there will be long after he retires from the NFL.

ForceOfNorse
09-06-2007, 06:47 PM
H-E-L-L, I'm just hoping that someone left a little bit of magic on that number when they left.

C Mac D
09-06-2007, 06:51 PM
"AngloVike" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I hope he lives up to it.
:-\

the only thing he has to live up to is the Viking shirt not the number. There were #84's before Moss and there will be long after he retires from the NFL.


No, no, no... this is #84... for the Minnesota Vikings... lets not play dumb.

There is a LOT to live up to.

Iron Lungs
09-06-2007, 06:55 PM
"C" wrote:


"AngloVike" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I hope he lives up to it.
:-\

the only thing he has to live up to is the Viking shirt not the number. There were #84's before Moss and there will be long after he retires from the NFL.


No, no, no... this is #84... for the Minnesota Vikings... lets not play dumb.

There is a LOT to live up to.


I agree. People see the #84 in purple and instantly think Moss.

AngloVike
09-07-2007, 06:12 AM
"C" wrote:


"AngloVike" wrote:


"C" wrote:


I hope he lives up to it.
:-\

the only thing he has to live up to is the Viking shirt not the number. There were #84's before Moss and there will be long after he retires from the NFL.


No, no, no... this is #84... for the Minnesota Vikings... lets not play dumb.

There is a LOT to live up to.

nope playing dumb is thinking that no-one else could ever wear #84. Like I said there is life after Moss.

singersp
09-07-2007, 06:27 AM
Well since Spach didn't make the team or the practice squad, #84 is a moot point now.

digital420
09-07-2007, 06:39 AM
he was great..


did he retire the number?
will he?
No


so why not let all who wish to dawn the #.. sport the 84!!


besides.. 84/2 * 10 = 420!!!!!!



gotta luv math

DiGiTaL

cogitans
09-07-2007, 07:32 PM
"singersp" wrote:


Well since Spach didn't make the team or the practice squad, #84 is a moot point now.
Not after it's Allisons new number

ejmat
09-10-2007, 07:55 AM
"cogitans" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


Well since Spach didn't make the team or the practice squad, #84 is a moot point now.
Not after it's Allisons new number


He looks good in 84.

singersp
09-10-2007, 07:59 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


Well since Spach didn't make the team or the practice squad, #84 is a moot point now.
Not after it's Allisons new number


He looks good in 84.


Plus he plays all the time, not just when he wants to.
;)