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VikemanX84
11-09-2004, 03:59 PM
This game was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. After monday night I've changed my opinion on two issues concerning the vikes.

One: Mike Tice shouldn't be our head coach next season. The stupidity in clock management lost us this game, plain and simple. We didn't have moss, we were rarely in a rythm, but if we had managed the clock at all we'd be 6-2 right now. I can't believ with a good 10 seconds left Tice decided to wait until 2 were remaining and call teh time out. Settling for a field goal. That was the stupidiest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. There is no good reason for doing it. I also couldn't believe that on 3rd and 33 he took a time out to keep from losing 5 more yards. What does 5 more yards matter? And then after wasting the time out, he doesn't try and get the first down. 5 yards wasn't worth that time out. I don't understand why coaches and players don't take the 5 yard penalty more often instead of wasting a time out, and there was no reasonable reason to waste that time out. I agreed with Madden that we should have just let the Colts score to give our offense time to come back. I mean, c'mon, they are the #1 Red Zone teama dn by that time they were inside the 30, well within Field Goal range. Just them score! We weren't going to stop them, we didn't stop them. Again poor clock management in the 2nd half (WTF was up with only having 10 guys on the field!!!!!) cost us big time. The guy is an idiot, he has been critized for these things since his first seasona nd he hasn't gotten better. ur team came out and played without the key that makes them good and kept us competitive and the coaching blew it.

Also, Ted Cottrell and Scott Linehan need to go after this season. We've still got Robinson and Campbell, we need to take shots and stretch the freaking field. If they are putting 8 guys in teh box, we can do that. Daunte Culpepper should be throwing mor ethan 20 passes with or without Moss. As for Cotrell, he turned a medicore defense, with a whole shitload of potential to be top-10 into one of the worst defenses I have seen in the vikings in a couple years. There is no reason, absolutely none for Kevin Williams to be playing End. His rotation on the Dline isn't working all that great, I like Steve Martin, he's good for run stuffing and to spell Hovan/Williams every once in a while but putting him in regularly is a bad idea, as is putting Williams on the End, he is a frikin' monster inside, why mess with that? Especially when we've got 2 talented guys in Mixon and Udeze to play ends, and 2 talented guys in Johnstone and Scott to back them up. Cottrell doesn't blitz enough. Chavous and Russel are really good safeties, and Williams and Winfield can hold their own against pretty much any set of 2 WRs in the game. Take a chance and blitz a friggin' safety, and if you're not going to blitz the linebackers please at least have one of them cover the underneath guy.

I said at the beginning of the year it would come down to coaching, and it has. Cottrel should be demoted, Tice fired, and Linehan can be traded or fired, or whatever, but I want a new coaching staff for '05.


Second: Smith should be a featured Back. He clearly out performed Bennett. However, trading Bennett I don't think is an option. What i think we shoudl do, especially with Jimmy K out, is go back to a 1 TE set and have both Bennett and Smith in the backfield. I guess I'm dreaming cuz Tice would never think of something that clever but thats what we should do, it works well.

Just some final thoughts. I think we need to convert our offense into a screen offense with moss gone. With Smith and bennett we can run the screen excellently, with Campbell we can run the WR screen, I think we need to set those things and do them more.

Also, with Moss gone, we need to reach into the play book and try a couple trick plays, that will help keep the defense on their toes and I'd bet they;d be pretty successful.

Viking_Spirit
11-09-2004, 04:05 PM
Two words-Can Linehan

PurpleReign
11-09-2004, 04:10 PM
I agree with ONE thing you said.......Onterrio should be our starting RB. He's shifty and powerful all in one package. Bennett is a track runner in shoulder pads.

snowinapril
11-09-2004, 04:14 PM
Yeah, please correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember a long pass to stretch the field at all.

The longest pass I remember is the one to Campbell when he caught the ball and went down. That wasn't even a play to stretch the field. It was just a crossing route.

Vikes
11-09-2004, 04:34 PM
"VikemanX84" wrote:

This game was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. After monday night I've changed my opinion on two issues concerning the vikes.

One: Mike Tice shouldn't be our head coach next season. The stupidity in clock management lost us this game, plain and simple. We didn't have moss, we were rarely in a rythm, but if we had managed the clock at all we'd be 6-2 right now. I can't believ with a good 10 seconds left Tice decided to wait until 2 were remaining and call teh time out. Settling for a field goal. That was the stupidiest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. There is no good reason for doing it. I also couldn't believe that on 3rd and 33 he took a time out to keep from losing 5 more yards. What does 5 more yards matter? And then after wasting the time out, he doesn't try and get the first down. 5 yards wasn't worth that time out. I don't understand why coaches and players don't take the 5 yard penalty more often instead of wasting a time out, and there was no reasonable reason to waste that time out. I agreed with Madden that we should have just let the Colts score to give our offense time to come back. I mean, c'mon, they are the #1 Red Zone teama dn by that time they were inside the 30, well within Field Goal range. Just them score! We weren't going to stop them, we didn't stop them. Again poor clock management in the 2nd half (WTF was up with only having 10 guys on the field!!!!!) cost us big time. The guy is an idiot, he has been critized for these things since his first seasona nd he hasn't gotten better. ur team came out and played without the key that makes them good and kept us competitive and the coaching blew it.

Also, Ted Cottrell and Scott Linehan need to go after this season. We've still got Robinson and Campbell, we need to take shots and stretch the freaking field. If they are putting 8 guys in teh box, we can do that. Daunte Culpepper should be throwing mor ethan 20 passes with or without Moss. As for Cotrell, he turned a medicore defense, with a whole shitload of potential to be top-10 into one of the worst defenses I have seen in the vikings in a couple years. There is no reason, absolutely none for Kevin Williams to be playing End. His rotation on the Dline isn't working all that great, I like Steve Martin, he's good for run stuffing and to spell Hovan/Williams every once in a while but putting him in regularly is a bad idea, as is putting Williams on the End, he is a frikin' monster inside, why mess with that? Especially when we've got 2 talented guys in Mixon and Udeze to play ends, and 2 talented guys in Johnstone and Scott to back them up. Cottrell doesn't blitz enough. Chavous and Russel are really good safeties, and Williams and Winfield can hold their own against pretty much any set of 2 WRs in the game. Take a chance and blitz a friggin' safety, and if you're not going to blitz the linebackers please at least have one of them cover the underneath guy.

I said at the beginning of the year it would come down to coaching, and it has. Cottrel should be demoted, Tice fired, and Linehan can be traded or fired, or whatever, but I want a new coaching staff for '05.


Second: Smith should be a featured Back. He clearly out performed Bennett. However, trading Bennett I don't think is an option. What i think we shoudl do, especially with Jimmy K out, is go back to a 1 TE set and have both Bennett and Smith in the backfield. I guess I'm dreaming cuz Tice would never think of something that clever but thats what we should do, it works well.

Just some final thoughts. I think we need to convert our offense into a screen offense with moss gone. With Smith and bennett we can run the screen excellently, with Campbell we can run the WR screen, I think we need to set those things and do them more.

Also, with Moss gone, we need to reach into the play book and try a couple trick plays, that will help keep the defense on their toes and I'd bet they;d be pretty successful.

Finally someone else is starting to see the light Tice is not the man. I'm sorry if you missed my first post it was TICE MUST GO!!!! He should have been gone last season after the collapse.

The Vikings became the first team since the 1978 Washington Redskins to start the season 6-0 and not make the postseason.

sdvikefan
11-09-2004, 07:54 PM
I won't defend Tice or Linehan, but I do have to stick up for Ted Cottrell. He is not our problem on defense.

First off keep in mind that our defense which has a lot of inexperience was playing a sharp Colts offense that has their timing down to near perfection. It came as no surprise to me that we got burned by them. Our secondary had their work cut out for them because the Colts send their WRs on routes and patterns that are tough to defend. There was no way we could afford to blitz Manning that often, our CBs just did not match up well enough to afford us to move a safety up to blitz.

I do not think Brian Williams is that great a corner anyway. He can hit pretty hard but his coverage is lacking. He gives way to much of a cushion and still gets burned despite having safety help often. Also, I do not see him ever try to jam the WR off the line like Winfield does.

Russell is improving but he is still out of position a lot, not hard to understand against an offense like the Colts, but still he has a ways to go before he can be trusted to cover the deep middle by himself and bring Chavous up to blitz or stop the run.

The LBs just did a crappy job of tackling last night. Winfield and Chavous are the best tacklers on the team, I think they should take the LBs and give them a few lessons in tackling skills.

Also, Chris Claiborne. I'm really losing patience with the guy. He looks great when he's healthy but that hardly ever happens. He's becoming a liability because he is injured so much.

Kevin Williams is much better on the inside, I agree he should not be played at end. But our defensive line is the strength of our defense right now, no doubt. They are getting better each week at pressuring the QB, like snow said they did better than most teams at pressuring Manning. It was up to the secondary and LBs to cover all the zones and not give Manning what he needs to get rid of the ball.

So I don't think we can afford to blitz more, and I think Cottrell is doing a pretty good job with what he has to work with.

Red is to blame...think of all the talented secondary we could have had. We could have gotten Dre Bly for crying out loud. Can you imagine having him and Winfield together? We could blitz on every play.

LosAngelis
11-09-2004, 08:44 PM
Sherman might be available for you next year.

VikemanX84
11-09-2004, 09:25 PM
Sorry Sd. I'm not just basing my opinion on this game, It's just this was the final straw.

You say the defense is inexperienced but in many ways we are much more experienced than we were last year. Williams is Older, we've got Newman at LB, Henderson is older, Steve Martin is a veteran to back up in the middle that Fred Robbins wasn't. I mean we've got a couple new faces - Thomas, and Udeze, but those are the only really inexperienced guys. We even added more experience by signing Winfield. In 11 out of 16 games last year our defense was top-10, exspecially towards the end of the season when we completely shut down offenses like the Chiefs and the Seahawks. And we are better this year personnell wise. Sorry thats not our problem, it's Cottrell.

As far as Williams and Russel go: When are these guys going to get some frigin' credit. More than once against the very potent Colts offense Russel came up with excellent hits on James and I believe didn't he knock the ball away the only time teh Vikings forced a 3 and out? And Williams, the announcers talked all game about how well Wayne was doing and what a potent threat he was for him. Wayne was silenced! Brian Williams shut down T.O. last year and has held his own against many other top Wide Recievers and Quarterbacks.

Red isn't to blame. I mean, I guess he is, kind of, for hiring that bone-head Cottrell and picking up the option on Linehan, but, talent wise, lur defense is really stacked. We've got an awesome Dline, we've got good linebackers (turns into really good with Claiborne at 100%) and our secondary is really, really stron with one of the best Safety tandems in the league and 2 really, really good corners. The probelms is they are not being used properly.

dan3ski
11-09-2004, 11:37 PM
Well all I can say is that if you hit the recievers at the line you will disrupt most timming patterms and linebacers playing 5 yds deep is a joke do what thier name implies and stack the line. I am not happy with any of the coaching on the Vikings and have called for Tice's head several times. Serve it up!

Vikes
11-09-2004, 11:49 PM
"VikemanX84" wrote:

Sorry Sd. I'm not just basing my opinion on this game, It's just this was the final straw.

You say the defense is inexperienced but in many ways we are much more experienced than we were last year. Williams is Older, we've got Newman at LB, Henderson is older, Steve Martin is a veteran to back up in the middle that Fred Robbins wasn't. I mean we've got a couple new faces - Thomas, and Udeze, but those are the only really inexperienced guys. We even added more experience by signing Winfield. In 11 out of 16 games last year our defense was top-10, exspecially towards the end of the season when we completely shut down offenses like the Chiefs and the Seahawks. And we are better this year personnell wise. Sorry thats not our problem, it's Cottrell.

As far as Williams and Russel go: When are these guys going to get some frigin' credit. More than once against the very potent Colts offense Russel came up with excellent hits on James and I believe didn't he knock the ball away the only time teh Vikings forced a 3 and out? And Williams, the announcers talked all game about how well Wayne was doing and what a potent threat he was for him. Wayne was silenced! Brian Williams shut down T.O. last year and has held his own against many other top Wide Recievers and Quarterbacks.

Red isn't to blame. I mean, I guess he is, kind of, for hiring that bone-head Cottrell and picking up the option on Linehan, but, talent wise, lur defense is really stacked. We've got an awesome Dline, we've got good linebackers (turns into really good with Claiborne at 100%) and our secondary is really, really stron with one of the best Safety tandems in the league and 2 really, really good corners. The probelms is they are not being used properly.

It this simple Red wants someone to buy the team! He is trying to keep cost low and profits high. The Vikings continue to perform at a decent level to keep selling out the stadium. Until we get Red out of there we are going to be stuck with this Mickey Mouse operation. I think Tice is the 2nd to lowest paid coach in the league. Did you guys catch the stat about Tice if he is not leading by the half the huge number of losses he has. Once again I'm not mad at Tice. If someone offered me the head coach of the Vikings I would take it. I would suk but hell it would be cool!! :thumbright: :thumbleft:

MEN We StAY ThE CoUrSe!

VikingsTw
11-10-2004, 01:01 AM
For the Brian Williams HATER, tell me what CB is in his 3rd year and is playing as good or better than Brian Williams, Tufant, yes, Newman probably not that fool gets toasted ever single game. BWis playing at a decent level and like someone said, just how many yards recieving did Wayne have. Wayne got away with some push in the endzone on BW (on the delay of game that wasn't called). I have to go straight for the heads of the LB's, they tore us up with the running game up the middle and the TE's, thats all LB duty. They sucked to high hell.

I dont have an answer for the the LB crew, Claborne has shown pretty much nothing the whole season, i almost begging for him to come back, maybe he can bring some experience to the unit. Maybe he can boost the coverage skill. EJ has been somewhat of a disapointment, but thats not an easy position to play in the NFL. DT just can't seem to get it right, i see him out of position, hesatating, hes not playing very well. They are going to have to do something. I dont know put Claborne in the middle and use Newman and Raonall. Thank goodness i dont have to worry about that unit.

All in all i think it will help to get claborne back and raonall. Please dont bring Claborne back at 98%, make sure he is 100% before putting him back on the field.

snowinapril
11-10-2004, 01:18 AM
"vikingstw" wrote:

For the Brian Williams HATER, tell me what CB is in his 3rd year and is playing as good or better than Brian Williams, Tufant, yes, Newman probably not that fool gets toasted ever single game. BWis playing at a decent level and like someone said, just how many yards recieving did Wayne have. Wayne got away with some push in the endzone on BW (on the delay of game that wasn't called). I have to go straight for the heads of the LB's, they tore us up with the running game up the middle and the TE's, thats all LB duty. They sucked to high hell.

I dont have an answer for the the LB crew, Claborne has shown pretty much nothing the whole season, i almost begging for him to come back, maybe he can bring some experience to the unit. Maybe he can boost the coverage skill. EJ has been somewhat of a disapointment, but thats not an easy position to play in the NFL. DT just can't seem to get it right, i see him out of position, hesatating, hes not playing very well. They are going to have to do something. I dont know put Claborne in the middle and use Newman and Raonall. Thank goodness i dont have to worry about that unit.

All in all i think it will help to get claborne back and raonall. Please dont bring Claborne back at 98%, make sure he is 100% before putting him back on the field.

I think the backs played well. The line played well. The LB let the TE run wild. Everyone and I mean everyone except maybe Winfield was guilty of some of the shittiest pisspour tackling I have seen in a long time.

We could have gotten away with the LB's poor play on the TE's if we would have tackled on some of the other critical plays. They also bit on the play action fakes the whole game.

I think Tice was trying to say in the PC that the LB's still aren't getting to there spots on D in the pass protection.

hawaiianvike21
11-10-2004, 01:56 AM
Dont blame linehan, he does a hell of a job whether you see it or not on the field and is the one that got culpepper this far anyway.

As for tice, he truly hasnt improved from his rookie mistake as well as mistakes from last year. He just doesnt seem to do the job at this point in time. Like i said earlier and i think ill stick to it, if he doesnt get us to the playoffs, he should be gone.

But last nights game pulled me in the direction of getting rid of him now but that wouldnt be too smart. SO lets see how far he can get us. Wouldnt mind him just being demoted to o-line coach again. DId a good job with birk and co.

cajunvike
11-10-2004, 10:07 AM
"hawaiianvike21" wrote:

Dont blame linehan, he does a hell of a job whether you see it or not on the field and is the one that got culpepper this far anyway.

As for tice, he truly hasnt improved from his rookie mistake as well as mistakes from last year. He just doesnt seem to do the job at this point in time. Like i said earlier and i think ill stick to it, if he doesnt get us to the playoffs, he should be gone.

But last nights game pulled me in the direction of getting rid of him now but that wouldnt be too smart. SO lets see how far he can get us. Wouldnt mind him just being demoted to o-line coach again. DId a good job with birk and co.

What you said regarding Tice and getting us to the playoffs is the solution in a nutshell...if he lets the team fold down the stretch, he should be gone. The only problem with that is who do you bring in that can take a new team to the Super Bowl in one year...Barry Switzer???...I can't think of anyone who could come in and take the reins of our team (which should win the Super Bowl next year given the talent level and continued gelling of the defense)...maybe someone like Bill Walsh would come out of retirement for one more shot at it, but I doubt it. Who would you trust with not screwing up our big chance next year? Any suggestions from the Tice bashers out there?

Vikes
11-10-2004, 12:13 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:

"hawaiianvike21" wrote:

Dont blame linehan, he does a hell of a job whether you see it or not on the field and is the one that got culpepper this far anyway.

As for tice, he truly hasnt improved from his rookie mistake as well as mistakes from last year. He just doesnt seem to do the job at this point in time. Like i said earlier and i think ill stick to it, if he doesnt get us to the playoffs, he should be gone.

But last nights game pulled me in the direction of getting rid of him now but that wouldnt be too smart. SO lets see how far he can get us. Wouldnt mind him just being demoted to o-line coach again. DId a good job with birk and co.

What you said regarding Tice and getting us to the playoffs is the solution in a nutshell...if he lets the team fold down the stretch, he should be gone. The only problem with that is who do you bring in that can take a new team to the Super Bowl in one year...Barry Switzer???...I can't think of anyone who could come in and take the reins of our team (which should win the Super Bowl next year given the talent level and continued gelling of the defense)...maybe someone like Bill Walsh would come out of retirement for one more shot at it, but I doubt it. Who would you trust with not screwing up our big chance next year? Any suggestions from the Tice bashers out there?

Don't laugh what do you guys think about the ex-giants coach? He went to SB lost but still coached his team to the promise land.

josdin00
11-10-2004, 12:25 PM
"VikemanX84" wrote:

I can't believ with a good 10 seconds left Tice decided to wait until 2 were remaining and call teh time out. Settling for a field goal. That was the stupidiest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. There is no good reason for doing it.

We have one timeout, and 10 seconds left. A fieldgoal makes it a 1 score game. We could take the time out, and take one shot into our endzone, but our offensive line has been a sieve all half. If we get sacked, there's no way we get the ball spiked in time, and that would give all our momentum back to the home team. A field goal may be the safe and unpopular play, but it gives us a little momentum going into halftime in a tough stadium to be the visitors. A shot to the endzone would make our fans happy, but the upside is small, and the potential downside is huge.

I'm just fine with how Tice played it at the end of the half. I think that we as fans make the mistake of always assuming that the play we have designed in our head would always be successful, and the coaches are stupid for not thinking of it. Who knows what would have happened if Tice went for the endzone there. We'd probably be screaming for his head because he didn't take the safe play to get us within one score.


"VikemanX84" wrote:

I also couldn't believe that on 3rd and 33 he took a time out to keep from losing 5 more yards. What does 5 more yards matter? And then after wasting the time out, he doesn't try and get the first down. 5 yards wasn't worth that time out.

Yes, but calming our team down, so they don't make the situation worse, was worth the time out.


"VikemanX84" wrote:

I agreed with Madden that we should have just let the Colts score to give our offense time to come back. I mean, c'mon, they are the #1 Red Zone teama dn by that time they were inside the 30, well within Field Goal range. Just them score! We weren't going to stop them, we didn't stop them.

We had the chance to stop them, and make them kick the field goal with time left to drive for a field goal of our own. We missed tackles, and they got the first. Then, all they did was take a knee. They weren't even trying to score, so how could we let them. If we let them score a TD earlier, then we have to drive the length of the field, instead of just to the 30. No, you try to stop them there every time. They may get the field goal, but if you stop them, you have time on the clock to get a fieldgoal of your own.

"VikemanX84" wrote:

Also, Ted Cottrell and Scott Linehan need to go after this season. We've still got Robinson and Campbell, we need to take shots and stretch the freaking field.

I frequently saw Daunte look down field when he had time, he just never pulled the trigger. Our guys weren't getting open on the plays when the O-line actually blocked.

"VikemanX84" wrote:

As for Cotrell, he turned a medicore defense, with a whole shitload of potential to be top-10 into one of the worst defenses I have seen in the vikings in a couple years. [snip] Cottrell doesn't blitz enough. Chavous and Russel are really good safeties, and Williams and Winfield can hold their own against pretty much any set of 2 WRs in the game. Take a chance and blitz a friggin' safety, and if you're not going to blitz the linebackers please at least have one of them cover the underneath guy.

You eluded to it yourself; the linebackers are missing assignments. That's why we can't blitz a safety. Let's see what happens this week when he gets Claiborne and Smith back. But it general, I think what will help this defense the most is continuity. They've had a different coordinator, and a different scheme every year for the past four years or so. If we can keep the same coach on defense for a couple years or so, I think you'll begin to see some vast improvement.

As for Linehan, I've heard quite a few interviews with Daunte where he credits linehan and his schemes for turning him into the QB his is this year. That alone makes me want to keep him.

Basically, right now is not the time to be calling for your coach's head. Unless, of course, you root for the orange and teal. Let's wait to the end of the season, take a look back on what happened, and decide then, when we have some cooler heads. Right after a loss is a bad time to make that kind of decision.




And anyway, firing Red is a much bigger priority.

snowinapril
11-10-2004, 12:27 PM
Are you talking about Fossil or Fossell????

He will probably be Head coach somewhere next year. He is with the Ravens as a special assistant QB coach to Boller. He comes in once a week to talk to Boller and give him a grade for the week.

VKG4LFE
11-10-2004, 12:53 PM
The reason he didn't call the timeout with 8 seconds left is explained here:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5077816.html

It's about the 7th or 8th paragraph down. Read it and you'll understand why he did what he did!

SKOL
11-10-2004, 03:49 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5077816.html

It's about the 7th or 8th paragraph down.

Can you copy and paste that paragraph VKG4LFE?

Freya
11-10-2004, 04:32 PM
Thank you VKG4LFE!

VKG4LFE
11-10-2004, 04:59 PM
Here are a couple paragraphs for ya skol.


ABC broadcaster Al Michaels was among the observers who openly questioned Tice's decision to go for a field goal after Moe Williams was tackled at the Colts' 5-yard line with eight seconds remaining in the quarter. Tice let the clock run down to two seconds before calling his final timeout, eschewing the apparent opportunity to take at least one shot at a touchdown before kicking.

Tice defended the decision Tuesday, citing an obscure NFL rule that could have eliminated the Vikings' scoring threat entirely. If a team with no timeouts commits a pre-snap penalty with less than a minute remaining in either half, it is subject to a 10-second rundown on the clock. Because the Vikings would have had no more than eight seconds left, a simple false start or intentional grounding penalty would have ended the half.

VKG4LFE
11-10-2004, 04:59 PM
Anytime Freya! Welcome aboard by the way!

snowinapril
11-10-2004, 05:09 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:

The reason he didn't call the timeout with 8 seconds left is explained here:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5077816.html

It's about the 7th or 8th paragraph down. Read it and you'll understand why he did what he did!

Tice defended the decision Tuesday, citing an obscure NFL rule that could have eliminated the Vikings' scoring threat entirely. If a team with no timeouts commits a pre-snap penalty with less than a minute remaining in either half, it is subject to a 10-second rundown on the clock. Because the Vikings would have had no more than eight seconds left, a simple false start or intentional grounding penalty would have ended the half.

ADubya26
11-10-2004, 05:22 PM
I totally agree with Vikeman on this. Honestly, do you think that the Patriots, Eagles, Steelers, or any of the other elite teams have more talent than us? QB - maybe according to some people but we have a top 5 QB if not better
RB - we have 4 Running backs that could start on almost any team
WR - We have the best receiver in the NFL, a good 2nd WR in Robinson, and some young threats as well
TE - Sass is a beast, but without him we have Wiggins who has been a very good receiver for us.
O line - Even though they arent as good as they seemed to be last year, they are still a good unit

Defense
Line - 10.5 sacks for Williams in rookie year, Udeze is a stud, Martin, Hovan, Johnstone and company can get the job done.
Linebackers - our only weakness, but we still have a good vet in Claiborne, EJ is getting good, DT is going to be good, Newman is decent...we have an OK LB corp
Corners...elite corner in Winfield and good one in Williams...
Safeties- lead the league in picks last year and hard hitting...Chavous is a walking dictionary.

Kicker - need one, but we can manage

Sorry to run through things you guys already knew, but if you look through our players...we are a very good football team. It doesnt take an allstar team to go to the playoffs and even the superbowl. It all comes down to our crappy coaching...someone needs to go or we will never get to the SB.

Viking_Spirit
11-10-2004, 07:47 PM
Actually...I change my mind on Linehan....i liked how he called the game (ball control...that's what we needed to have a shot at a win), it was that first quarter that blew it.

uncle tony
11-10-2004, 08:22 PM
Who thinks that we can pull Bud Grant out of the fishing boat and back on the sidelines? This guy needs to sport a super bowl ring! I was at the game Monday and I just dont get it. I told all those colts fan to watch out for Campbell and they rarley threw his way.He did have a nice dive during the punt return though. Good to see all the purple and gold at the dome. Keep the faith.

Kleinsasser40
11-10-2004, 08:31 PM
Just a reminder, we are 5-3 and on top of the NFC north...and you guys are looking for how much more than that with the condition our team is in? Secondly, I thought the rule was that a player on the field needs to call the time out? or did that change so the coaches can too?

cajunvike
11-10-2004, 10:14 PM
"uncle tony" wrote:

Who thinks that we can pull Bud Grant out of the fishing boat and back on the sidelines? This guy needs to sport a super bowl ring! I was at the game Monday and I just dont get it. I told all those colts fan to watch out for Campbell and they rarley threw his way.He did have a nice dive during the punt return though. Good to see all the purple and gold at the dome. Keep the faith.

Dude, I loved Bud when he was the coach too, but he would be more lost than some people think Gibbs is this year...I would love for Bud to have a ring but his time is past...we just need to cherish the memories of his great teams and look to the future. Tice can be that future, he just needs to finish the season on a strong note and bring the team at full speed into the playoffs and we will do OK. Personally, I don't expect a Super Bowl trophy this year (but I will take if if we can somehow pull it off) because I think that we are a year away...next year, is a different story because I think that we will be the team to beat. We will have all our major players back (with a year's more experience) plus you know we will get a few good draft choices to add depth (based on our recent draft history). All this adds up to a major shot at the SB title, IMHO.

VKG4LFE
11-11-2004, 12:40 PM
Coaches can call a timeout on the sideline now, stupid rule in my opinion, but what do I know. I think if/when the vikes ever win a superbowl, Bud Grant will be given a ring (if he's still alive)!

snowinapril
11-11-2004, 01:41 PM
"ADubya26" wrote:

I totally agree with Vikeman on this. Honestly, do you think that the Patriots, Eagles, Steelers, or any of the other elite teams have more talent than us? QB - maybe according to some people but we have a top 5 QB if not better
RB - we have 4 Running backs that could start on almost any team
WR - We have the best receiver in the NFL, a good 2nd WR in Robinson, and some young threats as well
TE - Sass is a beast, but without him we have Wiggins who has been a very good receiver for us.
O line - Even though they arent as good as they seemed to be last year, they are still a good unit

Defense
Line - 10.5 sacks for Williams in rookie year, Udeze is a stud, Martin, Hovan, Johnstone and company can get the job done.
Linebackers - our only weakness, but we still have a good vet in Claiborne, EJ is getting good, DT is going to be good, Newman is decent...we have an OK LB corp
Corners...elite corner in Winfield and good one in Williams...
Safeties- lead the league in picks last year and hard hitting...Chavous is a walking dictionary.

Kicker - need one, but we can manage

Sorry to run through things you guys already knew, but if you look through our players...we are a very good football team. It doesnt take an allstar team to go to the playoffs and even the superbowl. It all comes down to our crappy coaching...someone needs to go or we will never get to the SB.

I agree with you. but the big question is the coach. Do we let him finish what he has started. He has put the defense talent on the field, they are still growing. I have been leaning closer to the side of dismissing Tice but does he deserve to finish what he started. Most of the offense was there when he took over but we know that O doesn't win championships, it is the D. He has started putting the puzzle together. You yourself just got done praising the D, saying let's wait and see if the return of Smith and Claiborne will help.

Red is leaning towards letting him finish what he started. If this team drops games down the stretch, Red might change his mind. But I can't handle another melt down and I am definitely not going to route for a melt down. I want our team to be competative. I want us to make the playoffs.

VikemanX84
11-12-2004, 12:03 PM
"josdin00" wrote:

"VikemanX84" wrote:

I can't believ with a good 10 seconds left Tice decided to wait until 2 were remaining and call teh time out. Settling for a field goal. That was the stupidiest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. There is no good reason for doing it.

We have one timeout, and 10 seconds left. A fieldgoal makes it a 1 score game. We could take the time out, and take one shot into our endzone, but our offensive line has been a sieve all half. If we get sacked, there's no way we get the ball spiked in time, and that would give all our momentum back to the home team. A field goal may be the safe and unpopular play, but it gives us a little momentum going into halftime in a tough stadium to be the visitors. A shot to the endzone would make our fans happy, but the upside is small, and the potential downside is huge.

I'm just fine with how Tice played it at the end of the half. I think that we as fans make the mistake of always assuming that the play we have designed in our head would always be successful, and the coaches are stupid for not thinking of it. Who knows what would have happened if Tice went for the endzone there. We'd probably be screaming for his head because he didn't take the safe play to get us within one score.


"VikemanX84" wrote:

I also couldn't believe that on 3rd and 33 he took a time out to keep from losing 5 more yards. What does 5 more yards matter? And then after wasting the time out, he doesn't try and get the first down. 5 yards wasn't worth that time out.

Yes, but calming our team down, so they don't make the situation worse, was worth the time out.


"VikemanX84" wrote:

I agreed with Madden that we should have just let the Colts score to give our offense time to come back. I mean, c'mon, they are the #1 Red Zone teama dn by that time they were inside the 30, well within Field Goal range. Just them score! We weren't going to stop them, we didn't stop them.

We had the chance to stop them, and make them kick the field goal with time left to drive for a field goal of our own. We missed tackles, and they got the first. Then, all they did was take a knee. They weren't even trying to score, so how could we let them. If we let them score a TD earlier, then we have to drive the length of the field, instead of just to the 30. No, you try to stop them there every time. They may get the field goal, but if you stop them, you have time on the clock to get a fieldgoal of your own.

"VikemanX84" wrote:

Also, Ted Cottrell and Scott Linehan need to go after this season. We've still got Robinson and Campbell, we need to take shots and stretch the freaking field.

I frequently saw Daunte look down field when he had time, he just never pulled the trigger. Our guys weren't getting open on the plays when the O-line actually blocked.

"VikemanX84" wrote:

As for Cotrell, he turned a medicore defense, with a whole shitload of potential to be top-10 into one of the worst defenses I have seen in the vikings in a couple years. [snip] Cottrell doesn't blitz enough. Chavous and Russel are really good safeties, and Williams and Winfield can hold their own against pretty much any set of 2 WRs in the game. Take a chance and blitz a friggin' safety, and if you're not going to blitz the linebackers please at least have one of them cover the underneath guy.

You eluded to it yourself; the linebackers are missing assignments. That's why we can't blitz a safety. Let's see what happens this week when he gets Claiborne and Smith back. But it general, I think what will help this defense the most is continuity. They've had a different coordinator, and a different scheme every year for the past four years or so. If we can keep the same coach on defense for a couple years or so, I think you'll begin to see some vast improvement.

As for Linehan, I've heard quite a few interviews with Daunte where he credits linehan and his schemes for turning him into the QB his is this year. That alone makes me want to keep him.

Basically, right now is not the time to be calling for your coach's head. Unless, of course, you root for the orange and teal. Let's wait to the end of the season, take a look back on what happened, and decide then, when we have some cooler heads. Right after a loss is a bad time to make that kind of decision.




And anyway, firing Red is a much bigger priority.

lol, sorry man our offensive line wasn't that bad. If Daunte was in trouble he can throw the ball away. It would be super hard to get a intenional grounding in that situation being so close to the goal line. And we have a really good Oline, just put a RB on Feeney adn we would have fine. That was one fop the stupidest thigns I have ever seen a coach do. I don't really care about field goals, we were playing the Colts, our defense wasn't stopping a damn thing, it was a much mroe risky decision to kickt he field goal in the long run. especially when, barring some horrible turn of luck like you discribed we would have had a chance at a FG anyway.

2. You can calm your team down after the penalty! We didn't need to rush the play, and it didn't matter anyway we were still going top punt, basically we traded a Timeout that could of won us the game (having 2 tiem outs and 10 seconds, we definitely would have gone for the TD, if we had made it, we would have been 4 points ahead of them, not 3) to give a punter a few extra yards.

3. Sure we had a chance. But we also had a much better chance of scoring a TD in the first half, and that chance was small, I mean teh Colts offense is aweesome in enemy territory. we should ahve let them score.

4. Yeah, it happened a couple times. But c'mon, it was obvious we didn't run more than 2 or 3 deep plays, when we should be running 2 or 3 a quarter.

5. Blitz the Linebackers then.