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snowinapril
10-29-2004, 05:04 PM
mike TICE or DENNY green?????? who is responsible of our success. For that matter, is Denny responsible for the last 2 years (Tice's era) for not drafting Defense?

This isn't to decide which coach is better.
This is to decide who is responsible for the team we have now.

I heard in the Thurs Press Conf. that tice was saying this is the team he and his staff built.

Can Tice really say that since our offense is the mainstay of the team?

Which significant pieces did Tice add?
Which of Tice's players stand out?

Viking_Spirit
10-29-2004, 05:08 PM
Let me ask this-how many players and coaches from the Denny era are left?

pudgesoprano
10-29-2004, 05:10 PM
culpepper
moss
bennett
dixon
birk
hovan
kliensasser

that's all thats comes to me right now

pudgesoprano
10-29-2004, 05:15 PM
johnstone
russell on pratice sqaud
Liwienski

snowinapril
10-29-2004, 05:37 PM
Moe Williams is left.
On the D there are not many left.

I think we owe Denny a lot for Taking Culpepper and Moss in the Draft. Just think, even if Moore wouldn't have taken over, Moss Bennett and DC are a heck of a trio to have been left with. Last year they didn't have a whole season to play together becasue of Bennett and Cully's injuries. This year also with Moss and Bennett's injuries.

I also think that We have missed out on a lot by not getting D-orientated sooner.

Tice's addition on D should be showing here real soon. I think it is also important to give Tice the option of atleast one more year on his contract to finish what he started.

The DBs are definitely an improvement since Green left. I think that we have talent there. We just need to get the LBs and the D-line on the same page.

Tice has been working on the D and it(theD) will be his legacy. Hopefully the former O line coach can leave an impression on us with a dominant D.

Tice Notables:Chavous, Elling, Mixon, M.Moore, O.Smith, Ned, Offord, Rosenthal, Winfield, McKinney, Udeze, Williams, Burleson and pretty much everyone that didn't make the list below.

Green Notables: Dixon, Birk, Hovan, Johnstone, Klieny, Lewinski, Moss, Culpepper, (Stringer R.I.P.), Bennett, Withrow. Pretty much the Staples of the Offense.

Every coach inherits a team, fortunately Tice got a good team and not an awful team like the Bears.

snowinapril
10-29-2004, 05:40 PM
"Viking_Spirit" wrote:

Let me ask this-how many players and coaches from the Denny era are left?

I am not sure about coaches. I think that they are all gone except Tice. There might be one or two.

VikingsTw
10-29-2004, 08:49 PM
Brian Wiliams-Tice
Winfield-Tice
K.Williams-Tice
C. Chavous-Tice
EJ-Tice
Thomas-Tice
Udeze-Tice
Mixon-Tice
R. Smith-Tice

Some of those Defensive players are still young and only in there second or third year, wait for about 4 to 5 years then he will be looking really good. People like Rod Davis could also stand out in the future.

There are also several players on the offensive side of the ball two. Guys i think will be very sucsesful in this league.

I did hear what tice said and i have to agree with him he did build this team and he's done a damn good job, just needs to get the kicking problem solved.

cajunvike
10-29-2004, 10:45 PM
Tice probably deserves most of the credit for building the offensive line during the Green years...that was a huge strength even when Green was here and is the foundation of our super offense. That O-line legacy is Tice's first mark on the team and the defense will be what brings the Vikes their first Super Bowl crown...and the Tice naysayers will shake their heads in disbelief. Our time is coming!

VikingsTw
10-30-2004, 01:17 AM
True that Cajun i was thinking the same thing, i know tice worked out and looked at Birk when they drafted him. He had a little to do with helping out denny with his decision making.

hawaiianvike21
10-30-2004, 04:54 AM
Denny laid the foundation for our offense and tice notably took care of our defense and made it look better then it was in the denny era. Tice also developed the o-line as well.

snowinapril
10-30-2004, 10:01 PM
I think the main offensive cogs are Denny's

I think Tice should get credit for developing the O line that protects Culpepper.

Tice will get the credit for the D whether that is good or bad, has not yet been determined.

Denny's problem was he was taking Offensive players all the way into the late rounds. We could have used a few more D-draft picks while Denny was here.

I am sure glad he didn't pass on Moss and Culpepper though. They will be the cornerstone of this team for a long time. It is hard to find two people with that much talent.

LosAngelis
10-30-2004, 10:24 PM
Just a curious question...

Were Tice and Green both GM/Head Coaches?

To me, you can give the two coaches some credit for developing talent, but I would think the GM, if you have one, is the one who should be getting the credit for "building" the team and selecting the talent.

I know that the coach gets a lot of input, so you can make a case that this is "Tice's Team".

I guess just compared to the furor in Green Bay over Sherman's combined role, and his taking ALL the blame/credit for both bringing in talent and developing it, I'm just interested in what your front office situation is, as I honestly don't know.

stockerman
10-30-2004, 10:35 PM
sports fans are soooooooooo lame

UTVikfan
10-30-2004, 10:48 PM
L.A., that is a good question. If I heard correctly ( don't pay to much attention to front office stuff) we don't have a GM. Brezenski? is that his name? It could be all his fault we have gotten these awesome players. Studwell, also. But I would bet Tice had his say, even way back when. He did, to say the least build the o-line....which is what makes, Moore's, Smiths (both of them) , and Bennetts excel. Green has one hecka eye for offensive players, probably the others have learned from him. With Tice in the organization earlier, and all, I think you would have to ask all of them who did what. I bet it would be impossible to unravel, but, Denny was, and is a good coach. I would take Tice over him, though, myself.

cajunvike
10-30-2004, 10:48 PM
"stockerman" wrote:

sports fans are soooooooooo lame

This a sports fan message board...what the F*CK are you doing here...either you are a LAME sports fan or you are just a LAME f*cking idiot who doesn't know what the F*CK he is doing here. :scratch: :clown:

LosAngelis
10-30-2004, 10:51 PM
"stockerman" wrote:

sports fans are soooooooooo lame

Yeah, exactl....um....what???

LosAngelis
10-30-2004, 10:52 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:

"stockerman" wrote:

sports fans are soooooooooo lame

This a sports fan message board...what the F*CK are you doing here...either you are a LAME sports fan or you are just a LAME f*cking idiot who doesn't know what the F*CK he is doing here. :scratch: :clown:

Please, cajun...quit holding back and let him know how you really feel. Try and communicate your emotions a little more clearly. :)

Oh, and thanks for doing it better than me....

LosAngelis
10-30-2004, 10:55 PM
By the way, according to your really-easy-to-navigate Minnesota Vikings Official Website and Narrowband Killer, I didn't see a job or position that seemed to directly correlate with a GM. Here are the two guys who would seem to have some influence.

Scott Studwell is Director of College Scouting

After establishing himself as one of the top players in team history during his 14 seasons (1977-90) at linebacker for the Minnesota Vikings, Scott Studwell enters his 12th year in the team's Player Personnel department. He retired from his playing career after the 1991 season and spent a year as the Vikings Assistant to the President/Player Relations before being named the Player Personnel Coordinator from 1992-2001. Studwell was named to his current post as Director of College Scouting in April 2002. His new responsibilities include overseeing all college scouting efforts and preparation for the annual NFL Draft.

And that Brzinski guy is a VP of Operations.

Rob Brzezinski enters his sixth season with the Vikings in 2004. He was promoted to his current position as Vice President of Football Operations in April 2002 after spending his first three seasons with the Vikings serving the team as the Director (1999-2000) and Vice President (2001) of Football Administration. In his current role, Brzezinski is primarily responsible for overseeing the player personnel department, including pro and college scouting, management and strategic planning of the salary cap, negotiation of player contracts and general football administration.

Under Brzezinski's leadership the Vikings have eliminated their salary cap deficit and have transformed their salary cap position into a long-term competitive advantage, signed superstars Randy Moss and Daunte Culpepper to long-term contract extensions and constructed a plan in 2002, along with then newly named Head Coach Mike Tice, to return the Vikings to long-term on-field competitive excellence.

From a technological and process standpoint, the Vikings have revolutionized their pro scouting, college scouting and football administration departments. The benefits of the newly revamped college scouting and draft process in 2003 paid off quickly as the Vikings were the only NFL team to have each of its 2003 Draft choices make the team and be active on opening day.

Brzezinski spent the previous six seasons (1993-98) with the Miami Dolphins where he most recently held the position of Staff Counsel/Salary Cap. He has been involved with teams that have finished .500 or better in 9 of his 11 seasons in the NFL and have made the playoffs six times. During the salary cap era of the NFL (1994-present), both the Dolphins and Vikings are among the NFL elite in winning percentage and playoff appearances.

Brzezinski is a member of the NFL Management Council's Club Services Committee, which has developed new technology and systems for player contract reporting, salary cap management and information management.

In Miami, Brzezinski assisted in managing business affairs, which included salary cap administration, player contract negotiations, operations and legal affairs. In his tenure, the Dolphins compiled a 55-41 (.573) regular-season record and made the playoffs four times.

Brzezinski earned degrees from Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale, a J.D. in 1995 and a B.S. in education in 1992. In addition, Brzezinski is a member of the Florida Bar. Brzezinski and his wife, Leah, who has earned a doctoral degree in education, have a son, Ki (4/15/03), and reside in Edina.

vikesfan
10-30-2004, 11:05 PM
One thing that I really give Tice credit for his the way he got this team to play together. We still had a lot of talent when Green left, but we finished that season 5-11. Our defense wasn't good, and we had some injuries, but we were a better team than that. I think Tice took a talented group of individual players and really taught them to gel together and play as a team.

I really hope Red resigns him, and for a lot more money. For a coach who had zero experience and has been learning on the job, he has done great. We have improved each year since he's been here. Also, and maybe more importantly, the players love him. They want to win for him and they look like they're having fun every Sunday. You don't always see that in the NFL.

cajunvike
10-30-2004, 11:08 PM
"LosAngelis" wrote:

"cajunvike" wrote:

"stockerman" wrote:

sports fans are soooooooooo lame

This a sports fan message board...what the F*CK are you doing here...either you are a LAME sports fan or you are just a LAME f*cking idiot who doesn't know what the F*CK he is doing here. :scratch: :clown:

Please, cajun...quit holding back and let him know how you really feel. Try and communicate your emotions a little more clearly. :)

Oh, and thanks for doing it better than me....

You are very welcome... :salute:

snowinapril
10-31-2004, 11:09 AM
By the way LOS thanks for thinking outside the post. That was an interesting find about the 2 guys in charge of scouting and personel. It adds to the Tice Era.

The 2 guys:
Scott Studwell is Director of College Scouting

And that Brzinski guy is a VP of Operations.

"vikesfan" wrote:

One thing that I really give Tice credit for his the way he got this team to play together. We still had a lot of talent when Green left, but we finished that season 5-11. Our defense wasn't good, and we had some injuries, but we were a better team than that. I think Tice took a talented group of individual players and really taught them to gel together and play as a team.

I really hope Red resigns him, and for a lot more money. For a coach who had zero experience and has been learning on the job, he has done great. We have improved each year since he's been here. Also, and maybe more importantly, the players love him. They want to win for him and they look like they're having fun every Sunday. You don't always see that in the NFL.

The one thing that we need to think about here with the players that Green left. They have matured into great players. DC especially. The last two years were a transformation right before our eyes.

Odin VAVikefan
10-31-2004, 11:25 AM
I think it's important that I admit that I am indeed fairly lame... sorry.