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singersp
12-11-2006, 07:38 AM
Posted on Sun, Dec. 10, 2006

Henderson, Harris on way out? (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/16200423.htm)

Del Rio
12-11-2006, 07:40 AM
I hope so, it has been too long for the Vikings without having a real force at MLB.

Lets turn this thing around.

Mr. Purple
12-11-2006, 08:15 AM
I really like what both E.J. and Napo have done this season.They've held down thier position pretty well.I've seen E.J. miss a couple tackles here and there.I think Napo has had a monster year as well.He looks like a freight train when he rushes.I'd like to see us resign atleast 1 of them.I really wanna see what Greenway can do.

nephilimstorm
12-11-2006, 08:17 AM
Nice post singer

Harris would be a great pickup, thats if, of course, the Vikings (mainly) go after him and recievers lol

cajunvike
12-11-2006, 08:49 AM
I wouldn't be so sure to think that they won't be re-signed...and Leber WILL NOT be moved to the weak side...that spot is reserved for Greenway...if he pans out.

Zeus
12-11-2006, 09:03 AM
"Del" wrote:


I hope so, it has been too long for the Vikings without having a real force at MLB.

Lets turn this thing around.


I think Napo has played much better than anyone thought he would and the LBs, in general, are having a strong season.

What are you talking about?

=Z=

ejmat
12-11-2006, 09:50 AM
I have to say I think they both have had a good year.
Napo played a lot better than I thought he would.
I still would have traded him for Donnie Edwards but that's just my opinion.
He has played well and we missed him when he was injured.

marcosMN
12-11-2006, 09:59 AM
Where did this come from?

All season long (including when Napo was hurt, and DT played MLB) I have been pleasantly suprised with our LB corps.

And I was under the impression that they have been far exceeding anyone's pre-season expectations.

Dudes, we have the #1 rushing defense in the NFL.

I really think with Greenway back we will be set at LB.

tastywaves
12-11-2006, 10:16 AM
I agree that Henderson and Harris are having a good year, but the last 2 years they were on the top of the defensive suspect list.
Did they get that much better, is it the new defensive scheme/coaching,...?
Point is I don't think these guys are superstars (superstars don't have bad years), they are athletic and can be effective if put in the right system.
I would keep them if the price is right, but I wouldn't sign them for big time bucks because they haven't earned it yet.
The market will determine I guess.

I would love to see a true stud at MLB as well, but won't lose too much sleep if Napo holds down the post again.

1800CULPEPPER
12-11-2006, 10:21 AM
I think Tomlins system has everything to do with the success of the whole defence. If we do lose these guys, I hope anyone can step in and do a stand-up job., like our LBs this season. I think guys like playing for Tomlin. He relates.

snowinapril
12-11-2006, 10:43 AM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


I hope so, it has been too long for the Vikings without having a real force at MLB.

Lets turn this thing around.


I think Napo has played much better than anyone thought he would and the LBs, in general, are having a strong season.

What are you talking about?

=Z=


When I read the quote, I am thinking FORCE or SCHWARTZ in the MLB, not mini-me or medium-me out there.
They are playing well, but it would be awesome to have a real force, one that carries a big schwartz to play that MLB position.
I am talking about the guy that the media tauts as one of the best in the league (at this time).

I don't think we are going to aquire this kind of talent in FA, but you never know.
Heck maybe Henderson is the next force inthe NFL??
But I think that the real issue here is that the coaches don't see them as part of their plan.


Despite the unit's solid play, the Vikings apparently are content rolling the dice at the linebacker position next offseason. Cornerback Antoine Winfield, defensive tackles Kevin Williams and Pat Williams, safety Darren Sharper and cornerback Cedric Griffin are among the key defensive players locked up for 2007. But two of the starting linebackers, Harris and Henderson, are scheduled to be unrestricted free agents, and the Vikings did not make a strong push to re-sign either of them.

And unlike many other NFL teams, the Vikings aren't limited by the salary cap. In fact, the Vikings have enough room to craft respectable contracts for both players, which makes their idleness all the more surprising.

We can go out and BUY BUY BUY if we want, but are we going to get anything of Value?

Ddawg84
12-11-2006, 10:57 AM
E.J.
is the man... He just keeps getting better and better, and I don't see how our leading tackler is someone that gets moved out of the equation for next year? He was all over the field yesterday against the Lions.
He is only going to get better, this is the best season he has had and he is playing in a completely different system... give him a year.
Plus, Greenway whom many predicted to start almost immediately was forced to be a back up due to how well E.J was playing in practice and the preseason.
Plus I don't see what EJ could not be doing what Napo did this year in the middle but better.
He is built to be a middle linebacker, he just needs that fire that made him the Butkis award winner in college!

Plus like someone else said we ARE THE #1 rush defense in the LEAGUE. *actually i think since like 1970 something... i saw somewhere.

whackthepack
12-11-2006, 10:57 AM
I think the Vikes should resign EJ Henderson he has really started playing better this year after having a good second half last year.
He is becoming a factor in almost every game I think he has proven his worth on the field, and I hope that we resign him.

If they resign Napo Harris I am fine with it, or if they go after somebody else in FA I am fine with that too.

Freya
12-11-2006, 10:58 AM
I'd rather not have to start over with new players. I think THAT would be a mistake.

Del Rio
12-11-2006, 11:23 AM
I'm talking about a MLB that leads the team in tackles, a MLB that directs traffic and can actually cover down the field in the cover 2 something Napo cannot do.

In my book being better then we expected isn't good enough. MLB is arguably the most important position on defense. Our pass defense still sucks do in large part the inability of our lb's to cover.

Napo can blitz. I want a guy in the middle that can direct, has a nose for the ball, and cover. A real MLB that becomes the heart of a team. No more years of CB's leading our team in tackles.

Zeus
12-11-2006, 11:23 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


I hope so, it has been too long for the Vikings without having a real force at MLB.

Lets turn this thing around.


I think Napo has played much better than anyone thought he would and the LBs, in general, are having a strong season.

What are you talking about?

=Z=


When I read the quote, I am thinking FORCE or SCHWARTZ in the MLB, not mini-me or medium-me out there.
They are playing well, but it would be awesome to have a real force, one that carries a big schwartz to play that MLB position.
I am talking about the guy that the media tauts as one of the best in the league (at this time).


How many of those guys exist in the NFL?
If Ray Lewis is the prototype (although he plays in a 3-4) and Urlacher is the epitome, who else is there?

=Z=

VikesfaninWis
12-11-2006, 11:30 AM
I totally disagree with that article.. The LB crew here has been a very sound group all season long.. Leber has proved to be a great fit here in Minny, Harris has turned a complete 360 since coming here in the Moss trade, and Henderson is much better this season then the previous years..

If anything, we need to focus on the WR group, and the right side of the offensive line.. Keep those LB's together, they will get better as they play more together.. Also, I don't know about everyone else, but I am sick of rotating players every year..

Del Rio
12-11-2006, 11:32 AM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"snowinapril" wrote:


"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


I hope so, it has been too long for the Vikings without having a real force at MLB.

Lets turn this thing around.


I think Napo has played much better than anyone thought he would and the LBs, in general, are having a strong season.

What are you talking about?

=Z=


When I read the quote, I am thinking FORCE or SCHWARTZ in the MLB, not mini-me or medium-me out there.
They are playing well, but it would be awesome to have a real force, one that carries a big schwartz to play that MLB position.
I am talking about the guy that the media tauts as one of the best in the league (at this time).


How many of those guys exist in the NFL?
If Ray Lewis is the prototype (although he plays in a 3-4) and Urlacher is the epitome, who else is there?

=Z=

Almost every team in the league has a tackle leading dominant LB.

Zeus
12-11-2006, 11:38 AM
"Del" wrote:


Almost every team in the league has a tackle leading dominant LB.


EJ Henderson leads the team in tackles in spite of the 3, 4 & 5 WR sets teams are putting out there against them.
Isn't that what you mean?

=Z=

Del Rio
12-11-2006, 11:44 AM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Almost every team in the league has a tackle leading dominant LB.


EJ Henderson leads the team in tackles in spite of the 3, 4 & 5 WR sets teams are putting out there against them.
Isn't that what you mean?

=Z=


Yes Ej Henderson has a nose for the ball and has prooven he is not a very good MLB. He has also prooven he cannot pass defend.

I am talking about MLB's. The hint that gives away that I was talking about a MLB is the fact I included the letters MLB in my initial post.

Just a quick glance at the AFC East

Bills LONDON FLETCHER BAKER 121 tackles, MLB
Dolphins Zach Thomas 123 tackles, MLB
Patriots Teddy Bruschi 91 Tackles LIB (3-4 defense)
Jets Jonathan Vilma 97 Tackles MLB

This isn't just this season this has been going on for the last 5 or so years. The Vikings do not have now nor have they had in the recent past a quality MLB. Every single one of these guys I listed are great tacklers, team icons, and good pass defenders.

Being better then last year and exceeding fans expectations is not enough to play MLB. I hope they address the issue this season.

Big C
12-11-2006, 11:47 AM
I think Greenway makes EJ expendable. We will go after a premier MLB in free agency to replace Harris. I don't see either one coming back (even though I love them both).

My current Madden team is in the 2008 season now and EJ, Harris and Thomas are my LB corps all with stats over 92. But Troy catches everything on my Madden team too
;D (he did have 3 really good catches against Detroit though).

whackthepack
12-11-2006, 12:42 PM
"Big" wrote:


I think Greenway makes EJ expendable. We will go after a premier MLB in free agency to replace Harris. I don't see either one coming back (even though I love them both).

My current Madden team is in the 2008 season now and EJ, Harris and Thomas are my LB corps all with stats over 92. But Troy catches everything on my Madden team too
;D (he did have 3 really good catches against Detroit though).



Greenway is still an unknown and we can't go into next season counting on him to be a starter and to produce at a high level.

What if he has a set back like Daunte did from his knee injury?

What if he is never 100% what he was?

We need to resign EJ for next season.

V4L
12-11-2006, 12:49 PM
We would be crazy to not resign EJ.. Danggggg.. He is a freak and keeps getting better

Napo.. I would like to keep..
But if we can pick up London Fletcher or someone else I would be all for it.. But I don't think he'd fit the MLB position in our system well.. Cuz they need to be like another safety I hear?

Wow what a trade so far for Randy.. A LB who might be here 2 years.. Gives us one injury year.. And a good second year.. Then gone maybe.. And T-will the sure handed wonder





One Love

davike
12-11-2006, 12:53 PM
"whackthepack" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


I think Greenway makes EJ expendable. We will go after a premier MLB in free agency to replace Harris. I don't see either one coming back (even though I love them both).

My current Madden team is in the 2008 season now and EJ, Harris and Thomas are my LB corps all with stats over 92. But Troy catches everything on my Madden team too
;D (he did have 3 really good catches against Detroit though).



Greenway is still an unknown and we can't go into next season counting on him to be a starter and to produce at a high level.

What if he has a set back like Daunte did from his knee injury?

What if he is never 100% what he was?

We need to resign EJ for next season.


that would be a smart move, for all we know greenway just messed up his career with that knee. just sign EJ for a one or two year contract, and see how greenway does.

FuadFan
12-11-2006, 01:19 PM
I would keep E.J. Henderson he is worth staying right here at weakside as for Harris I would be more willing to let him go and get someone else. I think we could let Greenway to to earn that spot in the middle since I don't know if we should roll the dice and overpay Briggs or someone else to adjust to a new position.

cajunvike
12-11-2006, 02:04 PM
"FuadFan" wrote:


I would keep E.J. Henderson he is worth staying right here at weakside as for Harris I would be more willing to let him go and get someone else. I think we could let Greenway to to earn that spot in the middle since I don't know if we should roll the dice and overpay Briggs or someone else to adjust to a new position.


Greenway is NOT a MLB type...he relies on speed more than strength...if anything, we would slide EJ back to the middle...or let Dontarrious play the middle and have EJ and Greenway duke it out for the WLB spot.

arialassault84
12-11-2006, 02:20 PM
EJ & Harris have been beasts in there. No way does either of the two leave. Both will be here for a long time. EJ should make the pro bowl(in my opinion), he's been that good. Greenway is still.....well...GREEN!

AngloVike
12-11-2006, 02:28 PM
Ideally I'd rather keep both but if we had to pick only one then I'd go for EJ. He has come along a lot and especially this season.
Fingers crossed Greenway makes a full recovery and shows why he was so highly rated prior to the draft.

Zeus
12-11-2006, 03:28 PM
"Big" wrote:


My current Madden team

And we reach the point in this post where Zeus stops reading.

=Z=

Anemic Offense
12-11-2006, 04:56 PM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


My current Madden team

And we reach the point in this post where Zeus stops reading.

=Z=


Well, if we're bringing up Madden teams, Greenway is rated higher at DE than he is at LB.
I know that counts for nothing in real life, but think about it...

Greenway could be that speed-rushing defensive end that we NEED.
Switching to DE from LB isn't exactly unheard of.
It happens all the time in teams that run 3-4s.

I disagree with Del in that our pass defense is awful because our LBs can't cover.
Our pass defense is so bad because we can't get consistent pressure on the QB.
How long do you expect our secondary to cover?
The more time the QB has, the easier it is for WRs to gain separation.

I remember hearing all the hype about how dominant Udeze was in training camp.
Well, It's easy to be dominant when you're constantly lining up against Marcus Johnson, who, at this point in his career, well, sucks.
Udeze, may be decent against the run, but as a pass-rusher, he's terrible.

So, ideally, we keep EJ and Napo, and convert Greenway to DE.
I know Napo isn't as dominant as an Urlacher or anyone Del mentioned, although the AFC East has the most dominant MLBs in the league from top to bottom.
Every other division doesn't look that good. (feel free to prove me wrong)


I can't see us getting anyone better than Harris without a trade, and, of the people on our team worthy of a top-tier LB, there's no one I want to give up.

FreakinVikingsBaby
12-11-2006, 05:16 PM
We better not let EJ go. I was a huge fan of his at MD and went to see him a couple times. If we let him go, it will hurt us. He has shown nothing but promise. He plays with heart and has the athletic abilities to be a superstar. As for Napo, he hasn't impressed me that much. He has held strong and been decent, but I wouldn't have traded 84 for a decent guy. We can improve there. I say we put EJ in the middle or strong side & let Greenway and Napo battle out the weak side. I think we should shop for a true MLB. I don't see EJ fufilling his potential as a MLB. I don't think we should let either of them go. I haven't even mentioned Leber, although he has been a stud in the past few weeks. If we were to let anyone go, I would honestly say it should be Greenway-not that we should. But being that he got beat for the starting position early in the year, and is coming back off of a severe injury, our best bet would be to keep our current LB corps. If we were to let one go I would chose Napo. I hope we resign both.

gr8vike
12-11-2006, 05:43 PM
I think we should keep them both. Although if we had to get rid of one of them I would say it would have to be Harris. Greenway will be back next year and he is good. I watched him through college at Iowa. He has a huge heart and love for the game. I believe that he will progress alot in the future. Way more than Harris ever has!

Bretto
12-11-2006, 07:10 PM
I would also like to keep them both.
However I would rather lose EJ simply because I see him being more easily replaced.
We drafted Chad and there are way more free agent outside LBs then there are middle after this season.

singersp
12-11-2006, 07:57 PM
"Big" wrote:



My current Madden team is in the 2008 season now and EJ, Harris and Thomas are my LB corps all with stats over 92. But Troy catches everything on my Madden team too
;D (he did have 3 really good catches against Detroit though).


Ah! And there it is. There's the proof we've been waiting for. True facts staight from Madden football. Can't argue with that.

That settles it, we'd better lock these boys up for long term contracts now!

** Sarcasm Off **

BadlandsVikings
12-11-2006, 08:04 PM
"Big" wrote:


I think Greenway makes EJ expendable. We will go after a premier MLB in free agency to replace Harris. I don't see either one coming back (even though I love them both).

My current Madden team is in the 2008 season now and EJ, Harris and Thomas are my LB corps all with stats over 92. But Troy catches everything on my Madden team too
;D (he did have 3 really good catches against Detroit though).


::) So when do we win the SuperBowl?

cc21
12-11-2006, 08:06 PM
"WVV" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


I think Greenway makes EJ expendable. We will go after a premier MLB in free agency to replace Harris. I don't see either one coming back (even though I love them both).

My current Madden team is in the 2008 season now and EJ, Harris and Thomas are my LB corps all with stats over 92. But Troy catches everything on my Madden team too
;D (he did have 3 really good catches against Detroit though).


::) So when do we win the SuperBowl?
Well according to my madden team we already have twice....
;D

ejmat
12-11-2006, 08:26 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"Big" wrote:



My current Madden team is in the 2008 season now and EJ, Harris and Thomas are my LB corps all with stats over 92. But Troy catches everything on my Madden team too
;D (he did have 3 really good catches against Detroit though).


Ah! And there it is. There's the proof we've been waiting for. True facts staight from Madden football. Can't argue with that.

That settles it, we'd better lock these boys up for long term contracts now!

** Sarcasm Off **


That's exactly what I was thinking too Singer.
Why do people use Madden to figure out who is good and who is not good.
That's the funniest thing.

Big C
12-11-2006, 08:29 PM
People, the whole Madden reference was a joke (hence the reference to Troy catching everything). I'm not THAT stupid!

Just re-iterate, I agree that EJ and Harris will be gone next year and yes we do need an upgrade at LB. I hate to see EJ leave but I am very curious of what Greenway can contribute (we have a lot of money tied to him too). I'm sure we can find an MLB who is better than Harris even though he is doing a decent job this year.

Anemic Offense
12-11-2006, 08:37 PM
Ok, I think this thread has been derailed a bit by Madden talk.
It's meant to be funny, and that's it.
No one (well, not many people at least) believe the game actually translates well into real life.


Anyway, I would like to know what people think about my idea up moving Greenway to defensive end.
Even if you think it's ridiculous, and I'm a complete silly guy for bringing it up, share your thoughts.

*edit* spelling

singersp
12-11-2006, 08:46 PM
"Anemic" wrote:


Ok, I think this thread has been derailed a bit by Madden talk.
It's meant to be funny, and that's it.
No one (well, not many people at least) believe the game actually translates well into real life.


Anyway, I would like to know what people think about my idea up moving Greenway to defensive end.
Even if you think it's ridiculous, and I'm a complete silly guy for bringing it up, shore your thoughts.


Stick around awhile, you'll see!

As far as moving Greenway, to DE, I'd rather see what he can do at the LB position before there is any talk of moving him. We still haven't seen what he is even capable of doing in the LB position yet.

Anemic Offense
12-11-2006, 09:16 PM
"singersp" wrote:


"Anemic" wrote:


Ok, I think this thread has been derailed a bit by Madden talk.
It's meant to be funny, and that's it.
No one (well, not many people at least) believe the game actually translates well into real life.


Anyway, I would like to know what people think about my idea up moving Greenway to defensive end.
Even if you think it's ridiculous, and I'm a complete silly guy for bringing it up, shore your thoughts.


Stick around awhile, you'll see!

As far as moving Greenway, to DE, I'd rather see what he can do at the LB position before there is any talk of moving him. We still haven't seen what he is even capable of doing in the LB position yet.


Well, I'd like to move him because I'm pretty happy with our LB corps, including our backups.
It's not like adding Greenway into the mix is going to improve our run defense.
Besides, he has all the tools to be a Dwight Freeney type of DE.

Big C
12-11-2006, 10:33 PM
I doubt we'll move Greenway to DE considering we already have two 1st roubd picks playing DE. Just my opinion.

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 08:19 AM
"Anemic" wrote:


"AWZeus" wrote:


"Big" wrote:


My current Madden team

And we reach the point in this post where Zeus stops reading.

=Z=


Well, if we're bringing up Madden teams, Greenway is rated higher at DE than he is at LB.
I know that counts for nothing in real life, but think about it...

Greenway could be that speed-rushing defensive end that we NEED.
Switching to DE from LB isn't exactly unheard of.
It happens all the time in teams that run 3-4s.

I disagree with Del in that our pass defense is awful because our LBs can't cover.
Our pass defense is so bad because we can't get consistent pressure on the QB.
How long do you expect our secondary to cover?
The more time the QB has, the easier it is for WRs to gain separation.

I remember hearing all the hype about how dominant Udeze was in training camp.
Well, It's easy to be dominant when you're constantly lining up against Marcus Johnson, who, at this point in his career, well, sucks.
Udeze, may be decent against the run, but as a pass-rusher, he's terrible.

So, ideally, we keep EJ and Napo, and convert Greenway to DE.
I know Napo isn't as dominant as an Urlacher or anyone Del mentioned, although the AFC East has the most dominant MLBs in the league from top to bottom.
Every other division doesn't look that good. (feel free to prove me wrong)


I can't see us getting anyone better than Harris without a trade, and, of the people on our team worthy of a top-tier LB, there's no one I want to give up.


Almost every team in the entire NFL has a dominant MLB. I was working on proving it but after doing the NFC east it became apparent I was right so I figured why bother.

Bradie James Cowboys, 81 ILB (3-4)
Antonio Pierce Giants 104 tackles MLB
Jeremiah Trotter Eagles 103 tackles MLB

The redskins have Sean Taylor as their #1 with 86 tackles.

So far 7 out of 8 teams I have listed have a dominant MLB that is leading the team in tackles. I will do more later.

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 09:00 AM
Alright for anyone who cares here is the final statistics on the entire NFL for teams leading tacklers.

23 out of 32 teams are lead by MLB's that is 72%

Out of the top 10 defenses in the NFL 9 out of 10 have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

Out of the cover two teams in the NFL 90% of them have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

We are currently the exception. Our team is playing well, but I would still like to see a dominant MLB in here, does he have to be Brian Urlacher? No, Ed Mcdaniel would work fine for me. Lets get someone to be the defensive idenity and lead this team. Also someone who can do what Tomlin is asking to be done in a cover 2. Coverage abilities and speed. Yes we need more pressure on the ball, but if you can hit a pass in 2 seconds because your WR just beat a MLB then who is going to be able to apply that pressure.

It isn't like the QB's that are throwing 40 times a game are having to wait 6 seconds to throw.

PurplePeopleEaters
12-12-2006, 09:26 AM
I think that Henderson and Harris have been doing a fantastic job this year. The only problem is that we have no room for Greenway if we re-sign both of them. I could see both of them not being retained in order to have Greenway start and pick up a dominant MLB in Free Agency. I would still be more comfortable starting somewhat proven players over greenway. Either way depth can't hurt. Cato June, Henderson and Leber sounds aight to me.

whackthepack
12-12-2006, 09:34 AM
"Anemic" wrote:


"singersp" wrote:


"Anemic" wrote:


Ok, I think this thread has been derailed a bit by Madden talk.
It's meant to be funny, and that's it.
No one (well, not many people at least) believe the game actually translates well into real life.


Anyway, I would like to know what people think about my idea up moving Greenway to defensive end.
Even if you think it's ridiculous, and I'm a complete silly guy for bringing it up, shore your thoughts.


Stick around awhile, you'll see!

As far as moving Greenway, to DE, I'd rather see what he can do at the LB position before there is any talk of moving him. We still haven't seen what he is even capable of doing in the LB position yet.


Well, I'd like to move him because I'm pretty happy with our LB corps, including our backups.
It's not like adding Greenway into the mix is going to improve our run defense.
Besides, he has all the tools to be a Dwight Freeney type of DE.


He is small to be a DE he is only 6' 3" and 240lbs and you want your DE to be about 6' 5" and 265 to 280lbs.

And i don't think we get rid of EJ we need to resign him and get a different MLB in FA.
Napo has done a good job but has not been outstanding and we need somebody that is a game changer (like Urlacher) in that position

Prophet
12-12-2006, 09:49 AM
"Del" wrote:


Alright for anyone who cares here is the final statistics on the entire NFL for teams leading tacklers.

23 out of 32 teams are lead by MLB's that is 72%

Out of the top 10 defenses in the NFL 9 out of 10 have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

Out of the cover two teams in the NFL 90% of them have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

We are currently the exception. Our team is playing well, but I would still like to see a dominant MLB in here, does he have to be Brian Urlacher? No, Ed Mcdaniel would work fine for me. Lets get someone to be the defensive idenity and lead this team. Also someone who can do what Tomlin is asking to be done in a cover 2. Coverage abilities and speed. Yes we need more pressure on the ball, but if you can hit a pass in 2 seconds because your WR just beat a MLB then who is going to be able to apply that pressure.

It isn't like the QB's that are throwing 40 times a game are having to wait 6 seconds to throw.


Nice synthesis, I had my suspicions, but it's nice to see it all laid out.
100:1 odds that someone will ignore it and say...yeah, but that doesn't matter....I think.....

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 09:53 AM
"Acumen" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Alright for anyone who cares here is the final statistics on the entire NFL for teams leading tacklers.

23 out of 32 teams are lead by MLB's that is 72%

Out of the top 10 defenses in the NFL 9 out of 10 have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

Out of the cover two teams in the NFL 90% of them have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

We are currently the exception. Our team is playing well, but I would still like to see a dominant MLB in here, does he have to be Brian Urlacher? No, Ed Mcdaniel would work fine for me. Lets get someone to be the defensive idenity and lead this team. Also someone who can do what Tomlin is asking to be done in a cover 2. Coverage abilities and speed. Yes we need more pressure on the ball, but if you can hit a pass in 2 seconds because your WR just beat a MLB then who is going to be able to apply that pressure.

It isn't like the QB's that are throwing 40 times a game are having to wait 6 seconds to throw.


Nice synthesis, I had my suspicions, but it's nice to see it all laid out.
100:1 odds that someone will ignore it and say...yeah, but that doesn't matter....I think.....


Well at the end of the day it probably doesn't matter because we are that 1 out of 10 team that is in the top 10 defense without having a dominant MLB. Our defense is playing really well. I just think it is a bout time we get a good MLB in here. Napo is a FA, he seems to be hurt alot and frankly I don't know if he has done enough to justify another contract.

Zeus
12-12-2006, 10:55 AM
"Del" wrote:


Well at the end of the day it probably doesn't matter because we are that 1 out of 10 team that is in the top 10 defense without having a dominant MLB. Our defense is playing really well. I just think it is a bout time we get a good MLB in here. Napo is a FA, he seems to be hurt alot and frankly I don't know if he has done enough to justify another contract.


Quite-frankly, I'd like you to stop using the word "dominant" and change it to "play-making" or "solid tackling, good cover".
There are very few DOMINANT LBs in the NFL - and Antonio Pierce, while a solid player, is not one of them.

=z=

CCthebest
12-12-2006, 11:04 AM
We need a good MLB. Right now Ej isnt a good one. Hes average. He doesnt cover well. He doesnt haver that good initial read and first step other MLB have. Greenway isnt the answer, even if he can play.

We need to pick up a great WR first, and a great MLB second. And hope TJack is as good as most think.

whackthepack
12-12-2006, 11:09 AM
"CCthebest" wrote:


We need a good MLB. Right now Ej isnt a good one. Hes average. He doesnt cover well. He doesnt haver that good initial read and first step other MLB have. Greenway isnt the answer, even if he can play.

We need to pick up a great WR first, and a great MLB second. And hope TJack is as good as most think.



Well I have to agree with you CC EJ isn't a good MLB, BE CAUSE HE ISN"T THE MLB!

Napo Harris is the middle linebacker for the Viking's so lets not confuse the issue, and maybe you have been watching the wrong team because EJ Henderson is having a very solid year and we should resign him!

Napo Harris is having an average year and I think we should try and find somebody in FA to be our MLB!

Also Greenway is not a MLB he is an outside LBer and he will either play weak or strong not Middle.

cajunvike
12-12-2006, 11:15 AM
"Del" wrote:


Alright for anyone who cares here is the final statistics on the entire NFL for teams leading tacklers.

23 out of 32 teams are lead by MLB's that is 72%

Out of the top 10 defenses in the NFL 9 out of 10 have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

Out of the cover two teams in the NFL 90% of them have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

We are currently the exception. Our team is playing well, but I would still like to see a dominant MLB in here, does he have to be Brian Urlacher? No, Ed Mcdaniel would work fine for me. Lets get someone to be the defensive idenity and lead this team. Also someone who can do what Tomlin is asking to be done in a cover 2. Coverage abilities and speed. Yes we need more pressure on the ball, but if you can hit a pass in 2 seconds because your WR just beat a MLB then who is going to be able to apply that pressure.

It isn't like the QB's that are throwing 40 times a game are having to wait 6 seconds to throw.


Oh...you mean like Donnie Edwards???
:D

Too bad, he's not on our team...oh wait, he WAS available...for a third-rounder???

Hmmmmm.....

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 11:40 AM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Well at the end of the day it probably doesn't matter because we are that 1 out of 10 team that is in the top 10 defense without having a dominant MLB. Our defense is playing really well. I just think it is a bout time we get a good MLB in here. Napo is a FA, he seems to be hurt alot and frankly I don't know if he has done enough to justify another contract.


Quite-frankly, I'd like you to stop using the word "dominant" and change it to "play-making" or "solid tackling, good cover".
There are very few DOMINANT LBs in the NFL - and Antonio Pierce, while a solid player, is not one of them.

=z=


Quite-frankly I dont give a pooh what you want.

Sorry if you have 3 games left, have over 100 tackles, have more passes defended then some of your teams CB's then you are dominant. You are a force on the field and you are what a MLB should be.

All you need to manage to wrap your mind around is I think our MLB play is weak and has been for many years. An improvement is needed at that position IMO.

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 11:42 AM
"whackthepack" wrote:


"CCthebest" wrote:


We need a good MLB. Right now Ej isnt a good one. Hes average. He doesnt cover well. He doesnt haver that good initial read and first step other MLB have. Greenway isnt the answer, even if he can play.

We need to pick up a great WR first, and a great MLB second. And hope TJack is as good as most think.



Well I have to agree with you CC EJ isn't a good MLB, BE CAUSE HE ISN"T THE MLB!

Napo Harris is the middle linebacker for the Viking's so lets not confuse the issue, and maybe you have been watching the wrong team because EJ Henderson is having a very solid year and we should resign him!

Napo Harris is having an average year and I think we should try and find somebody in FA to be our MLB!

Also Greenway is not a MLB he is an outside LBer and he will either play weak or strong not Middle.


Ej has played MLB in the past though and he was not very good at it. He seems to be a natural OLB, he lead the team in tackles a year or so ago as well. I think he has proven MLB is not where he should be considered.

I only mention this because some people are suggesting moving EJ to MLB and letting greenway walk into the position.

CCthebest
12-12-2006, 12:07 PM
Hah, I meant Harris not EJ at MLB. Both are just average. I agree with Del. A dominate MLB would be huge for us. And there was talk last year about Greenway playing MLB, but hes not the answer. EJ has sucked so bad in the past, when he does average, everyone thinks hes awesome.

ejmat
12-12-2006, 12:27 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Alright for anyone who cares here is the final statistics on the entire NFL for teams leading tacklers.

23 out of 32 teams are lead by MLB's that is 72%

Out of the top 10 defenses in the NFL 9 out of 10 have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

Out of the cover two teams in the NFL 90% of them have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

We are currently the exception. Our team is playing well, but I would still like to see a dominant MLB in here, does he have to be Brian Urlacher? No, Ed Mcdaniel would work fine for me. Lets get someone to be the defensive idenity and lead this team. Also someone who can do what Tomlin is asking to be done in a cover 2. Coverage abilities and speed. Yes we need more pressure on the ball, but if you can hit a pass in 2 seconds because your WR just beat a MLB then who is going to be able to apply that pressure.

It isn't like the QB's that are throwing 40 times a game are having to wait 6 seconds to throw.


Oh...you mean like Donnie Edwards???
:D

Too bad, he's not on our team...oh wait, he WAS available...for a third-rounder???

Hmmmmm.....


You took the words out of my typing fingers Cajun.

Zeus
12-12-2006, 01:53 PM
"Del" wrote:


"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Well at the end of the day it probably doesn't matter because we are that 1 out of 10 team that is in the top 10 defense without having a dominant MLB. Our defense is playing really well. I just think it is a bout time we get a good MLB in here. Napo is a FA, he seems to be hurt alot and frankly I don't know if he has done enough to justify another contract.


Quite-frankly, I'd like you to stop using the word "dominant" and change it to "play-making" or "solid tackling, good cover".
There are very few DOMINANT LBs in the NFL - and Antonio Pierce, while a solid player, is not one of them.

=z=


Quite-frankly I dont give a pooh what you want.

Sorry if you have 3 games left, have over 100 tackles, have more passes defended then some of your teams CB's then you are dominant. You are a force on the field and you are what a MLB should be.

All you need to manage to wrap your mind around is I think our MLB play is weak and has been for many years. An improvement is needed at that position IMO.


So young and so angry.
You need to get out of civil service.

Okay - you see an improvement is needed.
Assume the Vikings finish 9-7.
Playoffs or not, that's drafting 18-22 or so.
Given that and the potential free agents at that position, what do they do?
Keep trades out of it since they are so rare in the NFL.

=Z=

Zeus
12-12-2006, 01:53 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


Oh...you mean like Donnie Edwards???
:D

Too bad, he's not on our team...oh wait, he WAS available...for a third-rounder???

Hmmmmm.....


"reportedly available"

=Z=

Anemic Offense
12-12-2006, 02:00 PM
"Big" wrote:


I doubt we'll move Greenway to DE considering we already have two 1st roubd picks playing DE. Just my opinion.


We may have 2 first round picks, but Udeze can pretty much be considered a bust.
So far this year, he has 21 total tackles and NO sacks.
If Greenway doesn't switch to DE, which he probably won't, I think Darrion Scott will be starting opposite Erasmus James next year.

"Del" wrote:


Alright for anyone who cares here is the final statistics on the entire NFL for teams leading tacklers.

23 out of 32 teams are lead by MLB's that is 72%

Out of the top 10 defenses in the NFL 9 out of 10 have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

Out of the cover two teams in the NFL 90% of them have a MLB leading the team in tackles.

We are currently the exception. Our team is playing well, but I would still like to see a dominant MLB in here, does he have to be Brian Urlacher? No, Ed Mcdaniel would work fine for me. Lets get someone to be the defensive idenity and lead this team. Also someone who can do what Tomlin is asking to be done in a cover 2. Coverage abilities and speed. Yes we need more pressure on the ball, but if you can hit a pass in 2 seconds because your WR just beat a MLB then who is going to be able to apply that pressure.

It isn't like the QB's that are throwing 40 times a game are having to wait 6 seconds to throw.


I'm starting to come around to your side about needing a cover MLB.
After thinking about it, I realized we DO get beat on slants on a pretty consistant basis.
Besides, after looking it up (I didn't have time before my last post, had an appointment to keep.), Napo isn't even close stat-wise to everyone else that Del mentioned.
Only 45 tackles for the seaon isn't very impressive for a MLB, but then, no one can run the ball up the middle against the Williams brothers, so that might be skewing the numbers a bit.

"whackthepack" wrote:


He is small to be a DE he is only 6' 3" and 240lbs and you want your DE to be about 6' 5" and 265 to 280lbs.


Freeney is only 6'1", although he does have about 25 pounds on Greenway.
Greenway has the frame to put on more weight though.

"CCthebest" wrote:


Hah, I meant Harris not EJ at MLB. Both are just average. I agree with Del. A dominate MLB would be huge for us. And there was talk last year about Greenway playing MLB, but hes not the answer. EJ has sucked so bad in the past, when he does average, everyone thinks hes awesome.


EJ has done better than average.
He leads our team with 83 tackles, and with so few rushing attempts against us as compared to other teams, that's pretty impressive for a LB.

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 02:06 PM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Well at the end of the day it probably doesn't matter because we are that 1 out of 10 team that is in the top 10 defense without having a dominant MLB. Our defense is playing really well. I just think it is a bout time we get a good MLB in here. Napo is a FA, he seems to be hurt alot and frankly I don't know if he has done enough to justify another contract.


Quite-frankly, I'd like you to stop using the word "dominant" and change it to "play-making" or "solid tackling, good cover".
There are very few DOMINANT LBs in the NFL - and Antonio Pierce, while a solid player, is not one of them.

=z=


Quite-frankly I dont give a pooh what you want.

Sorry if you have 3 games left, have over 100 tackles, have more passes defended then some of your teams CB's then you are dominant. You are a force on the field and you are what a MLB should be.

All you need to manage to wrap your mind around is I think our MLB play is weak and has been for many years. An improvement is needed at that position IMO.


So young and so angry.
You need to get out of civil service.

Okay - you see an improvement is needed.
Assume the Vikings finish 9-7.
Playoffs or not, that's drafting 18-22 or so.
Given that and the potential free agents at that position, what do they do?
Keep trades out of it since they are so rare in the NFL.

=Z=


A) I'm not angry I could just care less you do not approve of my word choice, big difference.

B) I have no idea about who to get. There are a few good FA's out there, as far as rookies go I have no idea who will do what when they get here. All I know is who we have now is not the MLB I think we need. Even if we draft some obscure MLB from the 4th round he would have my support until I saw what he did on the field, that's just how I go about it. No guarantees in the draft.

Zeus
12-12-2006, 02:12 PM
"Del" wrote:


B) I have no idea about who to get. There are a few good FA's out there, as far as rookies go I have no idea who will do what when they get here. All I know is who we have now is not the MLB I think we need. Even if we draft some obscure MLB from the 4th round he would have my support until I saw what he did on the field, that's just how I go about it. No guarantees in the draft.


Here's the list.


Adams, Keith
UFA Dolphins
Alexander, Eric ERFA Patriots
Allen, James UFA Saints
Anderson, Charlie RFA Texans
Archer, Phil ERFA Chargers
Bailey, Boss
UFA Lions
Banta-Cain, Tully UFA Patriots
Barber, Shawn UFA Eagles
Beisel, Monty UFA Cardinals
Blackburn, Chase ERFA Giants
Bockwoldt, Colby RFA Titans
Boiman, Rocky UFA Colts
Briggs, Lance UFA Bears
Brown, Chad UFA Steelers
Chillar, Brandon RFA Rams
Claiborne, Chris UFA Giants
Clark, Danny UFA Saints
Cody, Dan
ERFA Ravens
Cordova, Jorge RFA Jaguars
Curry, Donté
UFA Lions
Darling, James UFA Cardinals
Davis, Don UFA Patriots
Davis, Rod RFA Vikings
Ekejiuba , Isaiah
ERFA Raiders
Evans, Troy UFA Texans
Farwell, Heath ERFA Vikings
Fletcher-Baker, London UFA Bills
Fowler, Ryan RFA Cowboys
Gardner, Barry UFA Patriots
Gardner, Gilbert RFA Colts
Gilbert, Tony UFA Jaguars
Glenn, Jason UFA Vikings
Glymph, Junior RFA Cowboys
Godfrey, Randall UFA Chargers
Griffin, Kris ERFA Chiefs
Harris, Marques ERFA Chargers
Harrison, Arnold ERFA Steelers
Henderson, E.J. UFA Vikings
Holdman, Warrick UFA Redskins
Huff, Orlando UFA Cardinals
Irons, Grant UFA Raiders
Johnson, Landon RFA Bengals
June, Cato UFA Colts
Kacyvenski, Isaiah UFA Rams
Keiaho, Freddy ERFA Colts
Koutouvides, Niko RFA Seahawks
Lewis, Alex
RFA Lions
Lewis, D.D. UFA Seahawks
Mallard, Wesly UFA Buccaneers
Mays, Corey ERFA Patriots
Melton, Terrence RFA Saints
Miller, Caleb RFA Bengals
Mitchell, Kawika UFA Chiefs
Morris, Rob UFA Colts
Nande, Terna ERFA Titans
Newman, Keith
UFA Dolphins
Orr, Shantee UFA Texans
Phillips, Shaun RFA Chargers
Polk, Carlos UFA Chargers
Polk, DaShon UFA Texans
Polley, Tommy UFA Saints
Posey, Jeff UFA Redskins
Rainer, Wali UFA Texans
Reynolds, Robert RFA Titans
Riddle, Ryan ERFA Jets
Scanlon, Rich RFA Chiefs
Seau, Junior UFA Patriots
Shanle, Scott UFA Saints
Short, Brandon UFA Giants
Short, Jason RFA Eagles
Singleton, Al UFA Cowboys
Sirmon, Peter UFA Titans
Slaughter, T.J. UFA 49ers
Smith, Mike ERFA Ravens
Smith, Raonall UFA Rams
Smith, Tyson ERFA Giants
Spencer, Cody RFA Jets
Spragan, Donnie
UFA Dolphins
Stanley, Ronald ERFA Steelers
Taylor, Ben UFA Packers
Thomas, Adalius UFA Ravens
Thomas, Pat ERFA Jaguars
Thomas, Robert
UFA Raiders
Torbor, Reggie RFA Giants
Unck, Mason RFA Browns
White, Tracy UFA Packers
Wilhelm, Matt RFA Chargers
Wilkins, Marcus UFA Bengals
Williams, Demorrio RFA Falcons
Wilson, Rod ERFA Bears

Who do the Vikings go get?



=Z=

Anemic Offense
12-12-2006, 02:24 PM
Cato June and Lance Briggs are the obvious choices here.
Both are young and have a ton of upside.
However, I expect the Colts and Bears to make a strong push to re-sign them.

London Fletcher would be great for a couple years or so.
No longer than that, he's getting up there in age.
The Vikings do have a history of signing aging MLBs though, ie. Cowart and Biekert.

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 02:29 PM
Fletcher-Baker, London UFA Bills
Briggs, Lance UFA Bears
June, Cato UFA Colts
Miller, Caleb RFA Bengals
Shanle, Scott UFA Saints
Mitchell, Kawika UFA Chiefs


In order.

Yes Fletcher is getting older, but he is not like Biekert or Claiborn or Cowart this guy has consistently put up 100+ tackles for the last 6-7 years. Even this year at 9 years NFL experience he is putting up his same numbers. We have a great set of players around him he could get it done.

Sharper will retire soon, Pat Williams will be out of here soon........I would not cry about the Vikings investing in someone of this caliber even considering age. If not then there is plenty of talent listed below him.

cajunvike
12-12-2006, 02:33 PM
We need to offer Briggs a POISON PILL contract!
Heh heh heh!!!

Anemic Offense
12-12-2006, 02:39 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled if we signed London Fletcher.
I'd just be a little more thrilled if we signed a 'franchise' MLB, someone who will be around for several years to come.
If London Fletcher has another 5 or 6 years left in him, then yes, he moves to the top of my list.

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 02:40 PM
"Anemic" wrote:


Cato June and Lance Briggs are the obvious choices here.
Both are young and have a ton of upside.
However, I expect the Colts and Bears to make a strong push to re-sign them.

London Fletcher would be great for a couple years or so.
No longer than that, he's getting up there in age.
The Vikings do have a history of signing aging MLBs though, ie. Cowart and Biekert.


The Vikings are one of the leaders in cap space, the Colts and Bears may have a hard time matching an offer from us.

skum
12-12-2006, 02:40 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


We need to offer Briggs a POISON PILL contract!
Heh heh heh!!!


We can only do that if the tag him..

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 02:43 PM
"Anemic" wrote:


Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled if we signed London Fletcher.
I'd just be a little more thrilled if we signed a 'franchise' MLB, someone who will be around for several years to come.
If London Fletcher has another 5 or 6 years left in him, then yes, he moves to the top of my list.


The only thing that makes me put Briggs below him is Briggs is an OLB and so is June, now I have very little doubt that Briggs can transition, if you read his bio he has played damn near every position with success even DE. June is talented, but I would be worried that he would not be able to transition.

Even so with Briggs, he plays next to Urlacher it is hard to say if he had been benifiting from his play and cannot hold his own at MLB, or if he has been learning from one of the best and can take some of that and blend it with his own style.

Either way I feel every guy on that list I posted is better then NAPO and could be what we need at MLB.

Anemic Offense
12-12-2006, 02:46 PM
I think Briggs would make an outstanding MLB.
If you look at the stats, he actually has more solo tackles than Urlacher.
Urlacher has more assists because, well, he's in the middle.
He's closer to the play than Briggs on every play not going directly at Briggs.

cajunvike
12-12-2006, 02:48 PM
"skum" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


We need to offer Briggs a POISON PILL contract!
Heh heh heh!!!


We can only do that if the tag him..


I just want them to have to eat up a ton of cap space to keep him!
;D

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 02:52 PM
"Anemic" wrote:


I think Briggs would make an outstanding MLB.
If you look at the stats, he actually has more solo tackles than Urlacher.
Urlacher has more assists because, well, he's in the middle.
He's closer to the play than Briggs on every play not going directly at Briggs.


Well that and the Bears drop Urlacher into QB spy a lot, so he is usually even further off the ball looking for that int.

I THINK he would be a great MLB too, but you never know. EJ Henderson seems to be able to find the ball and chase it no matter what but when he played MLB he seemed to have no ability to direct traffic. He seemed to play with less speed and his production dropped, thats the only reason I say it will be a question if they can transition smoothly.

Anemic Offense
12-12-2006, 03:18 PM
"Del" wrote:


Well that and the Bears drop Urlacher into QB spy a lot, so he is usually even further off the ball looking for that int.

I THINK he would be a great MLB too, but you never know. EJ Henderson seems to be able to find the ball and chase it no matter what but when he played MLB he seemed to have no ability to direct traffic. He seemed to play with less speed and his production dropped, thats the only reason I say it will be a question if they can transition smoothly.


There could be other reasons for EJ's poor performance at MLB as well.
One, he may have just needed longer than normal to mature into a decent NFL player, or two, which I find more likely, he may just have needed a good defensive coordinator to help show his true potential.
After all, pretty much every defender on our team seems to be playing at a higher level this year under Tomlin.

Del Rio
12-12-2006, 03:21 PM
"Anemic" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Well that and the Bears drop Urlacher into QB spy a lot, so he is usually even further off the ball looking for that int.

I THINK he would be a great MLB too, but you never know. EJ Henderson seems to be able to find the ball and chase it no matter what but when he played MLB he seemed to have no ability to direct traffic. He seemed to play with less speed and his production dropped, thats the only reason I say it will be a question if they can transition smoothly.


There could be other reasons for EJ's poor performance at MLB as well.
One, he may have just needed longer than normal to mature into a decent NFL player, or two, which I find more likely, he may just have needed a good defensive coordinator to help show his true potential.
After all, pretty much every defender on our team seems to be playing at a higher level this year under Tomlin.


Very valid point.

thepacksux
12-12-2006, 04:11 PM
I cant say i would lose sleep if they didn't resign either of them.
Henderson is a good lb and i think he is defintely getting better every year, but he is not necessarily a priority with greenway coming back.
Napolean is a great MLB in the fashion of a trotter but is very limited in pass coverage.
If they dont resign either or both, i would hope they take a shot at a vet like briggs.
I do not want to see DT as our only viable option in the middle next season.


I wouldn't mind seeing Leber take a shot at the middle but then his pass rushing skills off the edge blitzes would be limited to some extent from that position.
Let's just hope that greenway comes out playing well next year and we have a problem of finding ways to get talented players on the field.
I like that problem much better than having a lack of talent.

Bretto
12-12-2006, 05:33 PM
I really think harris is the best MLB FA this year.
There just arn't that many great options.

Del Rio
12-13-2006, 07:45 AM
"Bretto" wrote:


I really think harris is the best MLB FA this year.
There just arn't that many great options.


You think Harris is better then Fletcher?

singersp
12-13-2006, 08:03 AM
"Del" wrote:


"Bretto" wrote:


I really think harris is the best MLB FA this year.
There just arn't that many great options.


You think Harris is better then Fletcher?


It's not even close.

Individual Defense

............................... Total...Tackles...Assists...Sacks...Fum Rec
London Fletcher-Baker..121...... 89.0......32............2..........1

Napoleon Harris............45........30.0......15............1.5.......0

Zeus
12-13-2006, 08:27 AM
"Del" wrote:


Fletcher-Baker, London UFA Bills
Briggs, Lance UFA Bears
June, Cato UFA Colts
Miller, Caleb RFA Bengals
Shanle, Scott UFA Saints
Mitchell, Kawika UFA Chiefs

In order.

Yes Fletcher is getting older, but he is not like Biekert or Claiborn or Cowart this guy has consistently put up 100+ tackles for the last 6-7 years. Even this year at 9 years NFL experience he is putting up his same numbers. We have a great set of players around him he could get it done.

Sharper will retire soon, Pat Williams will be out of here soon........I would not cry about the Vikings investing in someone of this caliber even considering age. If not then there is plenty of talent listed below him.


Can Fletcher play the pass as necessary in the Cover 2?
Because that's (I guess) what is missing from any current candidate for MLB on the Vikes roster.
At this moment in time, they don't need a big run-stuffing MLB - that's not an issue.

=Z=

Zeus
12-13-2006, 08:29 AM
"Del" wrote:


"Anemic" wrote:


I think Briggs would make an outstanding MLB.
If you look at the stats, he actually has more solo tackles than Urlacher.
Urlacher has more assists because, well, he's in the middle.
He's closer to the play than Briggs on every play not going directly at Briggs.


Well that and the Bears drop Urlacher into QB spy a lot, so he is usually even further off the ball looking for that int.

I THINK he would be a great MLB too, but you never know. EJ Henderson seems to be able to find the ball and chase it no matter what but when he played MLB he seemed to have no ability to direct traffic. He seemed to play with less speed and his production dropped, thats the only reason I say it will be a question if they can transition smoothly.


That's the thing about EJ.
It took him a couple years at MD before he matured into the tackling machine he was at the end.
I honestly believe the same thing is happening to him now and the full season at OLB will enable him to move into the middle and be the answer to the Vikes questions at that position.


=Z=

Del Rio
12-13-2006, 08:34 AM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Fletcher-Baker, London UFA Bills
Briggs, Lance UFA Bears
June, Cato UFA Colts
Miller, Caleb RFA Bengals
Shanle, Scott UFA Saints
Mitchell, Kawika UFA Chiefs

In order.

Yes Fletcher is getting older, but he is not like Biekert or Claiborn or Cowart this guy has consistently put up 100+ tackles for the last 6-7 years. Even this year at 9 years NFL experience he is putting up his same numbers. We have a great set of players around him he could get it done.

Sharper will retire soon, Pat Williams will be out of here soon........I would not cry about the Vikings investing in someone of this caliber even considering age. If not then there is plenty of talent listed below him.


Can Fletcher play the pass as necessary in the Cover 2?
Because that's (I guess) what is missing from any current candidate for MLB on the Vikes roster.
At this moment in time, they don't need a big run-stuffing MLB - that's not an issue.

=Z=


Yes he can, he has done it his whole career. He has played heavy in a 3-4 set the bills used to run and still occasionally do. Coverage is a mainstay for Briggs, June, and Fletcher

Del Rio
12-13-2006, 08:35 AM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


"Anemic" wrote:


I think Briggs would make an outstanding MLB.
If you look at the stats, he actually has more solo tackles than Urlacher.
Urlacher has more assists because, well, he's in the middle.
He's closer to the play than Briggs on every play not going directly at Briggs.


Well that and the Bears drop Urlacher into QB spy a lot, so he is usually even further off the ball looking for that int.

I THINK he would be a great MLB too, but you never know. EJ Henderson seems to be able to find the ball and chase it no matter what but when he played MLB he seemed to have no ability to direct traffic. He seemed to play with less speed and his production dropped, thats the only reason I say it will be a question if they can transition smoothly.


That's the thing about EJ.
It took him a couple years at MD before he matured into the tackling machine he was at the end.
I honestly believe the same thing is happening to him now and the full season at OLB will enable him to move into the middle and be the answer to the Vikes questions at that position.


=Z=


Well if your right then that's even better for us. Last time he tried he was very unimpressive. Hopefully he has matured and can carry the load.

Del Rio
12-13-2006, 08:42 AM
Fletcher began his professional career with the St. Louis Rams as an undrafted free agent. He spent four seasons with the Rams before joining the Buffalo Bills in 2002. He was a starting linebacker for the Rams in Super Bowl XXXIV, in which the Rams defeated the Titans 23-16.

He has played in every single game over the last 8 seasons (128 games), collecting 674.0 tackles, 271 assists, 25.5 sacks, 7 interceptions (for 71 yards), 10 fumbles recovered and has returned kicks at an average of 15.7 yards per attempt (188 total kick return yards from 12 returns).

The guy is durable, he is a superbowl champion, he can cover, he can lead, he is a feel good story: A) Because he went undrafted B) Because he changed his name to honor his grandfather who passed away.

He is also friends with Pat Williams, so I think there is a possibility we could see the guy here next season.

digital420
12-13-2006, 09:02 AM
I like the idea of fletcher.
esp if he and phat pat are old friends and can work well 2gether. a signing like this can only help!! but then what do we do with Harris?
keep him? slide him around?
or flat out drop his arse?

DiGiTaL

Del Rio
12-13-2006, 09:08 AM
"digital420" wrote:


I like the idea of fletcher.
esp if he and phat pat are old friends and can work well 2gether. a signing like this can only help!! but then what do we do with Harris?
keep him? slide him around?
or flat out drop his arse?

DiGiTaL



Well he is a free agent. So you make him an offer that would suit a backup and if someone else wants him they will try and pick him up IMO. I have always been a supporter of EJ, and if we can only afford one there is no question in my mind you let Napo walk and never look back.

ejmat
12-13-2006, 02:02 PM
"Del" wrote:


"digital420" wrote:


I like the idea of fletcher.
esp if he and phat pat are old friends and can work well 2gether. a signing like this can only help!! but then what do we do with Harris?
keep him? slide him around?
or flat out drop his arse?

DiGiTaL



Well he is a free agent. So you make him an offer that would suit a backup and if someone else wants him they will try and pick him up IMO. I have always been a supporter of EJ, and if we can only afford one there is no question in my mind you let Napo walk and never look back.


I have to agree.
I think EJ is coming into his own now.
He is getting better at coverage and his game is more solid.
Napo was missed while he was out but that's because I don't think DT gets the MLB position.
I wouldn't mind getting Fletcher.
He's a seasoned vet that will only help with his experience and leadership.
That's exactly what is needed.
A vet with leadership abilities.

singersp
12-15-2006, 06:17 AM
Vikings: Harris and Henderson are part of solution (http://www.startribune.com/510/story/877009.html)

Vikings defensive coordinator Mike Tomlin put his trust in the two holdover linebackers, and they have responded.

By Judd Zulgad, Star Tribune
Last update: December 14, 2006 – 11:12 PM

Zeus
12-15-2006, 08:12 AM
"singersp" wrote:


Vikings: Harris and Henderson are part of solution (http://www.startribune.com/510/story/877009.html)

Vikings defensive coordinator Mike Tomlin put his trust in the two holdover linebackers, and they have responded.

By Judd Zulgad, Star Tribune
Last update: December 14, 2006 – 11:12 PM



Read this article just a bit ago.
Pretty good piece.
I am all for the idea of re-signing and trying EJ again in the middle and letting Napo go if his price gets too high.
Although, I'm not as convinced as some that Greenway will be an immediate star.
I hope so - but he's got serious knee history now.

=Z=