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singersp
12-08-2006, 07:56 AM
Posted on Fri, Dec. 08, 2006

Johnson isn't the only reason Vikings are 5-7 (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/16191192.htm)

Del Rio
12-08-2006, 08:04 AM
I agree 100% and have been saying the same thing for weeks.

BadlandsVikings
12-08-2006, 08:48 AM
If it were all BJ's fault the team would be called the Brad Johnson Viking.
There is more than one person on a football team.

AngloVike
12-08-2006, 10:03 AM
Anyone that wants to put things entirely down to Johnson is misguided or hasn't been watching the games properly. I know he hasn't been playing well and has cost us turnovers, points etc but there have been other factors at work as well.

purplepridegirl
12-08-2006, 10:09 AM
Agreed.
Although Johnson has made some very costly errors, I have also seen him try to block when our guys needed help... on more than one occassion.
Whatever else you say about him, the guy does have heart which is often overlooked.

Bdubya
12-08-2006, 10:15 AM
That's like saying that McDonald's isn't the only reason that Michael Moore is fat.
Obviously there are other things that contribute to the overall outcome, but it has to be thrown in as a factor.

But until Brad has fifteen seconds to throw the ball, and all of his receivers have broken away from coverage and he still throws a pic, you can't just blame him.

ejmat
12-08-2006, 11:01 AM
I think a lot of us have been saying this all year.
I will admit this hasn't been BJs best season however, the offense as a whole has not done their job to let BJ do his.
As a QB you depend on a lot to happen.
You depend on the line doing it's job and WRs catching the ball.
I think Taylor has done his job running the ball and probably would be close to #1 in rushing if it weren't for stupid penalties.
The Vikings have the #14 ranked offense as far as yardage.
Penalties, drops, and non-aggressive play calling have cost points.


I have always backed BJ up and always will.
However, at this point in the season I see we are not going very far unless the team somehow turns itself around.
I thought they did against Seattle but then they had the game against NE.
That's why I personally would like to see TJ get some playing time.
I'm not saying he's 100% ready but at this point he needs to get the playing experience.
All the other rookies had the same type of experience he did.
Look how well Young is doing.
Others may not be doing well however at least they are getting the experience they need and that will make them better next year.

marantzo
12-08-2006, 11:42 AM
As improbably as it seems, we still have a legitimate shot at a wild card, thanks to
the ineptitude of so many other teams in the hunt. Of course we have to win all our remaining games and other teams have to play down to their current level, rather than improving. Despite BJ's poor performance last week, I'm firmly of the belief that he has to be the QB this week to keep us in the hunt. If he is faltering, then a decision has to be made of course. Two thing that fans should note: BJ performance the week before and that last week's performance was by far the worst of his entire career. So there is a strong possibility that it won't be repeated. If it looks like it is, then that's when you make a change.

Unfortunately for the team, there is a carload of blame to spread around. It would be nicer if we could pinpoint it on the QB, but that's not the case.

davike
12-08-2006, 11:44 AM
anyone with any logic or common sense would agree that its not all BJs fault. yeah he has made so costly mistakes, but we still should have won a lot of other games even with a few Johnson mistakes. he has to take some of the blame, but ppl like to put way to much of a teams success and failure on the teams QB and HC, they are just easy to pick on at their positions.

FreakinVikingsBaby
12-08-2006, 12:08 PM
I think a factor that has contributed a bunch recently is our pass rush. With everyone realizing they can't run on us, they pass a bunch and it has exposed a weak pass rush. Now I don't think that BJ is entirely to blame, but simply, he f'ed up a lot this year and I would credit losing at least2games this year to him. On the other hand, the previous lions game I think we won primarily because of BJ. He was firing people up and took charge that game.

WisconsinSucks
12-08-2006, 12:14 PM
Whenever you try to fix something, you fix the obvious first.
Johnson is the obvious.

I could deal with his limited ability because he "contolled the game" and "didn't make mistakes".
But now he doesn't do either.
Easy fix replace him.

baumy300
12-08-2006, 12:24 PM
You're right.

We shouldn't be 5-7, we should be 3-9.

We can thank the stupidity of John Fox and his reverse punt play, and Sean Taylors temper for allowing us those 2 wins early on.

I do believe though, that if we would have beat the bears in that first game (that IMO we had won) we would be having a whole different season.

It almost feels like we lost confidence after that game.

Heres to next season though.

FreakinVikingsBaby
12-08-2006, 12:50 PM
Next season????????Playoffs dude!!!!!! & you can credit that win v washington to me. I know I got in Brunell's head. One play after we almost sacked him, but knocked him to the ground the whole crowd got quiet. Then you heard 6 rows back "HOWS THAT DIRT TASTE #8?" In fact, if you guys came up with a fund to send me to every away game we will be undefeated on the road. I have a loud voice, and I'm not afraid to take an asswhooping for my team. Can't wait till the vikes come to philly.

baumy300
12-08-2006, 12:51 PM
"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


Next season????????Playoffs dude!!!!!! & you can credit that win v washington to me. I know I got in Brunell's head. One play after we almost sacked him, but knocked him to the ground the whole crowd got quiet. Then you heard 6 rows back "HOWS THAT DIRT TASTE #8??????"


Hahah.

I like your optimism.

RK.
12-08-2006, 01:02 PM
"baumy300" wrote:


You're right.

We shouldn't be 5-7, we should be 3-9.

We can thank the stupidity of John Fox and his reverse punt play, and Sean Taylors temper for allowing us those 2 wins early on.

I do believe though, that if we would have beat the bears in that first game (that IMO we had won) we would be having a whole different season.

It almost feels like we lost confidence after that game.

Heres to next season though.

I think the game that killed us was the Pats game.
They showed the NFL how to beat the Vikings and everyone has simply copied their game plan to some extent.
Special teams are killing us.
INT's run back for touch downs are killing us.
Its clear that our offense doesn't know what to do if the ball gets turned over.
I am glad to see that some people are finally coming to the realization that it is not all BJ's fault.
IMO a rookie coming into this offense would not stand a chance.
When the ball is snapped 11 guys all have to do their job for the play to work.
Putting in a new guy doesn't make that happen.
It only works on teams in which the rest of the squad is getting it done.
That is only happening for the Vikes on about 60% of the plays right now.
The Vikes are playing an entirely new offense from the year before and they simply don't have it down yet especially in the passing game.
The WCO is a timing type of offense and right now our timing sucks.


I have watched some of the INT's and BJ is throwing to a spot.
The problem is the receivers some times are not making their cuts on time and getting to the spot where the ball will be.
This forces BJ to hold the ball longer and watch the receiver before he lets it go.
That is not going to fool any good DB if he is having to stare down the receivers to see when they make their cuts.
We send in a new QB and they make a few completions right off the bat because their ball speed and style is a little different.
It takes a few plays for the defense to make the adjustment.
Put them in for a longer period of time and I guarantee they will have the same problems that BJ has.

Purple D
12-08-2006, 01:43 PM
"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


I think a factor that has contributed a bunch recently is our pass rush. With everyone realizing they can't run on us, they pass a bunch and it has exposed a weak pass rush. Now I don't think that BJ is entirely to blame, but simply, he f'ed up a lot this year and I would credit losing at least2games this year to him. On the other hand, the previous lions game I think we won primarily because of BJ. He was firing people up and took charge that game.


I dont think Johnson was the reason we won the first Lions game,
The Defense was the reason we won the first Lions Game.
We were down the whole game because our Offense couldn't produce points,
it took big plays by our defense to win that game.

Sure Johnson could use a little more time to look for open people.
But teams this year have been daring us to throw long.
They campout on all of the short routes and they try to stop the run and they bring more people at Johnson because he cant throw the long ball with enough power to burn anyone.
This is just my opinion of course.
I just feel a more mobile quarterback with a much stronger arm might help this team get out of it's funk that it is in.


Nobody will ever doubt Brad Heart,
he plays with alot of heart ,
I just doubt his physical ability anymore.
Mentally he is still one of the best in the game,
just cant get his body to do what his mind wants it to do.

BrooksBollingerForQB
12-08-2006, 02:23 PM
Why we suck: I will rate the guilty parties in my opinion.

1. Brad Johnson
2. Brad Childress
3. The o-line
4. Wide Receivers
5. Chester Taylor and his fumbles

Braddock
12-08-2006, 02:26 PM
"Purple" wrote:


"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


I think a factor that has contributed a bunch recently is our pass rush. With everyone realizing they can't run on us, they pass a bunch and it has exposed a weak pass rush. Now I don't think that BJ is entirely to blame, but simply, he f'ed up a lot this year and I would credit losing at least2games this year to him. On the other hand, the previous lions game I think we won primarily because of BJ. He was firing people up and took charge that game.


I dont think Johnson was the reason we won the first Lions game,
The Defense was the reason we won the first Lions Game.
We were down the whole game because our Offense couldn't produce points,
it took big plays by our defense to win that game.

Sure Johnson could use a little more time to look for open people.
But teams this year have been daring us to throw long.
They campout on all of the short routes and they try to stop the run and they bring more people at Johnson because he cant throw the long ball with enough power to burn anyone.
This is just my opinion of course.
I just feel a more mobile quarterback with a much stronger arm might help this team get out of it's funk that it is in.


Nobody will ever doubt Brad Heart,
he plays with alot of heart ,
I just doubt his physical ability anymore.
Mentally he is still one of the best in the game,
just cant get his body to do what his mind wants it to do.


Despite that, he's still doing very well. All the Chester haters should have had their fill of crow by now. And as far as some who are worried about his fumbles, with most teams loading the box, pounding on him, him playing hurt, and the bad calls called against him, he's done VERY well. don't blame him for his fumbles. He has done nothing but HELP us win. Give him a f'ing break.

cajunvike
12-08-2006, 02:33 PM
"Purple" wrote:


"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:


I think a factor that has contributed a bunch recently is our pass rush. With everyone realizing they can't run on us, they pass a bunch and it has exposed a weak pass rush. Now I don't think that BJ is entirely to blame, but simply, he f'ed up a lot this year and I would credit losing at least2games this year to him. On the other hand, the previous lions game I think we won primarily because of BJ. He was firing people up and took charge that game.


I dont think Johnson was the reason we won the first Lions game,
The Defense was the reason we won the first Lions Game.
We were down the whole game because our Offense couldn't produce points,
it took big plays by our defense to win that game.

Sure Johnson could use a little more time to look for open people.
But teams this year have been daring us to throw long.

They campout on all of the short routes and they try to stop the run and they bring more people at Johnson because he cant throw the long ball with enough power to burn anyone.

This is just my opinion of course.
I just feel a more mobile quarterback with a much stronger arm might help this team get out of it's funk that it is in.



Nobody will ever doubt Brad Heart,
he plays with alot of heart ,
I just doubt his physical ability anymore.
Mentally he is still one of the best in the game,
just cant get his body to do what his mind wants it to do.

Truer words may have never been spoken!

Not that there aren't many other reasons why the Vikings aren't winning right now.

But we are closer than many think...losses to Buffalo, SF, GB and Miami that could have just as easily been wins...would have put us at only three losses...right up there with the elite teams...and beating Chicago in Week 3 (which should have happened) would put us as tied for the best record in the NFL.
The fact of the matter is that if we can get some incremental improvement in our offensive performance, just one less mistake or two per game, we should be right where we need to be next season...unless they can figure it out in time to win the next four games and give us an outside shot to make the playoffs THIS YEAR!

davike
12-08-2006, 04:53 PM
"BrooksBollingerForQB" wrote:


Why we suck: I will rate the guilty parties in my opinion.

1. Brad Johnson
2. Brad Childress
3. The o-line
4. Wide Receivers
5. Chester Taylor and his fumbles


BJ is deffinetly not all to blame. he has made mistakes, but he didn't have many other players helping him out. he is getting older and that is affecting his play as well, but i believe that BJ is on of the most competitive QBs in the game at heart, he just doesn't have the body to be the QB could be. at least 2 of BJs picks last week should not have happened if the target had done his job. one of them, BJ bounced it off jeff dugans chest and they picked it off, the other, C taylor could have caught it, he wasn't ready or he just didn't try. i can go back to alot of BJ picks that weren't really his fault.


BC. not even close, he is a rookie head coach that has made some mistakes, but he isn't the one to blame for our losses. his play calling isn't as conservative and bad as most think, just go look at the playcalls of the past games. he put in deep routes alot as well, but what good is throwing deep in your WR can't bring them in? he is playcalling for whats the best way to pick up yards with the players he has, if the WR can't bring in the deep ball but can bring in the little 5 yard passes, tell me what you would call? he has actually brought some discipline to the vikings as well, which is something i really like.


the O-line. they have played well at run blocking, they just can't seem to figure out pass blocking, maybe if BJ had a little more time he would actually be able to find someone down field. but i do agree with you that they haven't played up to their talent.

WR. i don't think anyone can argue that they are one of the key problems. they are so inconsistent that even if BJ did find someone open, he would probably hesitate before throwing because he is afraid of what they will do. when teams QB loses trust in his WR that is not a good situation, and i believe BJ did lose faith in our WR's.

chestor taylor has fumbled 4 times. which isn't that bad, that bad thing is that 2 went for touchdowns. but i find it very hard to say anything bad against chestor taylor, since he has been almost the only bright spot in our offense. he had fumbled 4 times on 265(#2 in the league) carries, that says that he fumbles every 66 carries, not bad considering you have big guys that are trying to strip the ball from you on almost every carry. taylor has been the most consistent guy on our offense, im not going to say anything bad.

so i agree with you on somethings, but it is a group effort. the downfall of our offense isn't about putting up yards, its about putting up points. we have the 14th overall offense. that isn't bad, you would think with that, combined with our #5 defense would be a winning combo. but its more in the penalties and the poor redzone execution then anything. what good is it if you can drive the ball 85 yards if you only get a field goal? you can win that way against bad teams, but not against good teams. i think that costly penalties have been our downfall more then anything.

olson_10
12-08-2006, 04:58 PM
its obvious that he isnt the only reason, but a veteran guy like that has to elevate his game..instead Johnson has just played equally as bad as everybody else

idahovikefan7
12-08-2006, 05:02 PM
I believe Johnson would have been much better this year if he actually had some time to throw the ball. The line just isnt doing its job.

scottishvike
12-08-2006, 05:08 PM
I agree that Brad hasn't been the sole cause of our problems this year but he seems to have the look of a boxer who has had one fight too many at the moment. I feel that if Bollinger had been fit he probably would have started this week. Dropping your starter for the back-up is one thing but benching him for the number three guy? That's maybe a bridge too far.

singersp
12-08-2006, 11:57 PM
"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:

On the other hand, the previous lions game I think we won primarily because of BJ. He was firing people up and took charge that game.


I'd have to disagree with you on that one. If your going to give credit for a QB firing up the Vikings in that game, the credit would have to go to Kitna.

We were down 17-3 in the 4th quarter, but our offense finally mustered a TD. it was then 17-10.

It was Kitna who coughed the ball up on the 1 yard line & Leber smartly falling on it to score a TD. The point after was blocked. 17-16 Vikings.

We drove down later in the game, only to come up short of a TD & settled for a field goal. 19-17 Vikings.

The Lions had the ball & a chance to come back & kick a game winning field goal or score a TD, but once again it was Kitna, who after being flushed out of the pocket, stupidly tried a shovel pass to prevent a sack. E.J. Henderson picked the ball off & took it to the house for the 2nd defensive TD.

Final score Vikings 26, Lions 10.

ejmat
12-09-2006, 07:05 AM
The funny thing is people forget about BJ being the reason why we have won games.
When you look at Washington and Carolina, he was the one that managed the clock and drove us enough when it counted (4th qtr and OT) to win the games.

Again have always liked BJ.
I always will like BJ.
I was angry when he left and was happy when he came back.
The fact is BJ has thrown the ball effectovely as always (short and long).
The prblem is people seem to have the dropsies or there are stupid penalties.
He has had miserable games this year (Pats & Bears).
I won't make any excuses there.
The fact remains that he has won games too.
We know there are several reasons why the offense hasn't done well scoring points.

That said, a little mobility may be good for the offense.
At the same time we give a future QB some experience.
Sure we may make the playoffs this year.
Do you honestly think we will go far?
Anything can happen, true.
But let's be realistic.
Chances are we won't go far into the playoffs unless the offense starts going on a roll.
Give the kid some playing time and start working on the future.

Ltrey33
12-09-2006, 09:25 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:

On the other hand, the previous lions game I think we won primarily because of BJ. He was firing people up and took charge that game.


I'd have to disagree with you on that one. If your going to give credit for a QB firing up the Vikings in that game, the credit would have to go to Kitna.

We were down 17-3 in the 4th quarter, but our offense finally mustered a TD. it was then 17-10.

It was Kitna who coughed the ball up on the 1 yard line & Leber smartly falling on it to score a TD. The point after was blocked. 17-16 Vikings.

We drove down later in the game, only to come up short of a TD & settled for a field goal. 19-17 Vikings.

The Lions had the ball & a chance to come back & kick a game winning field goal or score a TD, but once again it was Kitna, who after being flushed out of the pocket, stupidly tried a shovel pass to prevent a sack. E.J. Henderson picked the ball off & took it to the house for the 2nd defensive TD.

Final score Vikings 26, Lions 10.


I agree sing. That game came down to two huge defensive plays. Prior to the defense scoring those, we were getting whooped on offense.

"idahovikefan7" wrote:


I believe Johnson would have been much better this year if he actually had some time to throw the ball. The line just isnt doing its job.


I think that has been part of the problem, but he's made some uncharacteristically dumb decisions this year too. Some of them were under duress, but some of them were just flat out bad throws that Brad hadn't throwin in previous years.

davike
12-09-2006, 09:33 AM
just a stat: we are the 14 overall, we are 6th worst in overall scoring and 7th worst in ypg. 5 out of the 6 teams that are worst then us are in the bottom 6 teams in overall offense, the same with ypg, 5 out of 6 that are worst then us are the 5 worst in the league. its sad, but those stats should tell us that. it is penalties, dropped passes, turnovers, and poor redzone play. but the good thing is that these are all very fixable problems.

umaguma1979
12-09-2006, 12:24 PM
There is no reason why the Viking offense can't get hot all of the sudden.
We have been running the ball great, but execusion in the passing game has hurt.
We are missing a block and taking a sack or fumble, dropping a pass, forcing a throw and throwing a pick, or completing a pass one every four passing plays; killing momemtum and drives.


The guys just got to execute.
When BJ makes a play, the receiver has to finish and vice versa.

cajunvike
12-09-2006, 12:36 PM
I thank Brad for all he has done...and harbor no ill will towards him...but it's time to start the TJack Era...or at least see if there will be one!

umaguma1979
12-09-2006, 12:49 PM
Will there be a TJ era?
Thats the question; but I still think there is hope for this year.
there is still 25% of the games to be played.

ejmat
12-09-2006, 07:29 PM
"davike" wrote:


just a stat: we are the 14 overall, we are 6th in overall scoring and 7th in ypg. 5 out of the 6 teams that are worst then us are in the bottom 6 teams in overall offense, the same with ypg, 5 out of 6 that are worst then us are the 5 worst in the league. its sad, but those stats should tell us that. it is penalties, dropped passes, turnovers, and poor redzone play. but the good thing is that these are all very fixable problems.


Are you sure about this (6th overall in scoring)?
I can name a few teams without looking at stats that have scored more than the Vikings and 3 of them are in the same division:

Bears, Packers, Lions, Colts, Saints, Jaguars, Cincy, San Diego, etc.......

I can go on and on here.
Either I misread that or that stat is not correct.

I do agree the problems can be fixed and the team can get hot all of the sudden.
However, even if that happens, there are far better teams right now unfortunately and the SB looks very bleak at best.
I say give TJack the rock and see what he's about.
I like BJ and I am happy he's a Viking.
I hope he retires with the team but I think it's time to give TJ a chance.

Ltrey33
12-09-2006, 07:45 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"davike" wrote:


just a stat: we are the 14 overall, we are 6th in overall scoring and 7th in ypg. 5 out of the 6 teams that are worst then us are in the bottom 6 teams in overall offense, the same with ypg, 5 out of 6 that are worst then us are the 5 worst in the league. its sad, but those stats should tell us that. it is penalties, dropped passes, turnovers, and poor redzone play. but the good thing is that these are all very fixable problems.


Are you sure about this (6th overall in scoring)?
I can name a few teams without looking at stats that have scored more than the Vikings and 3 of them are in the same division:

Bears, Packers, Lions, Colts, Saints, Jaguars, Cincy, San Diego, etc.......

I can go on and on here.
Either I misread that or that stat is not correct.

I do agree the problems can be fixed and the team can get hot all of the sudden.
However, even if that happens, there are far better teams right now unfortunately and the SB looks very bleak at best.
I say give TJack the rock and see what he's about.
I like BJ and I am happy he's a Viking.
I hope he retires with the team but I think it's time to give TJ a chance.


We're actually 26th overall in scoring. We're averaging 17.6 PPG, San Diego (#1) is averaging 31.4 PPG.

davike
12-09-2006, 08:00 PM
"ejmat" wrote:


"davike" wrote:


just a stat: we are the 14 overall, we are 6th in overall scoring and 7th in ypg. 5 out of the 6 teams that are worst then us are in the bottom 6 teams in overall offense, the same with ypg, 5 out of 6 that are worst then us are the 5 worst in the league. its sad, but those stats should tell us that. it is penalties, dropped passes, turnovers, and poor redzone play. but the good thing is that these are all very fixable problems.


Are you sure about this (6th overall in scoring)?
I can name a few teams without looking at stats that have scored more than the Vikings and 3 of them are in the same division:

Bears, Packers, Lions, Colts, Saints, Jaguars, Cincy, San Diego, etc.......

I can go on and on here.
Either I misread that or that stat is not correct.

I do agree the problems can be fixed and the team can get hot all of the sudden.
However, even if that happens, there are far better teams right now unfortunately and the SB looks very bleak at best.
I say give TJack the rock and see what he's about.
I like BJ and I am happy he's a Viking.
I hope he retires with the team but I think it's time to give TJ a chance.


sorry, i meant 6th worst, i will change that right now

davike
12-09-2006, 08:14 PM
"umaguma1979" wrote:


There is no reason why the Viking offense can't get hot all of the sudden.
We have been running the ball great, but execusion in the passing game has hurt.
We are missing a block and taking a sack or fumble, dropping a pass, forcing a throw and throwing a pick, or completing a pass one every four passing plays; killing momemtum and drives.


The guys just got to execute.
When BJ makes a play, the receiver has to finish and vice versa.






i agree there is no reason we can't get hot all the sudden, but we are 10th in pass completion at 62.2 pecent. so we are completing better then 1 out of every 4 passes. but the main reason is that we do alot of short passes or dump offs. so there usually isn't many yards gained on a pass play, we are 24th in yards gained per a pass play with 6.37.
but i do agree that the WR havn't been keeping their end of the bargain, i think that one of the reasons for so many dump offs is because BJ has lost faith in his WRs, better to gain 3 yards on a play then just waste a down because of a dropped pass that would have been worth 15.

modena11
12-10-2006, 04:46 PM
where was this defence for culpepper last year?

anyways, you obviously have to agree here, even though that was a terribly written piece.

Caine
12-10-2006, 05:47 PM
Brad Johnson is not - and never has been - the totality of why we're now 6-7.
That much is, and always was, true.

He has not, however, been the driving force that a starting QB needs to be in order to propel his offense, and his team, towards victory.
We've seen it week in and week out, the Vikes either struggle to stay close and steal one, or get ahead early (like today), then sputter and let the other team back in.


Brad Johnson put Detroit on the board today and put life back into their team after we had pummeled them for 20 unanswered points.
When all was said and done, a few bad play choices by Marinelli (Should have kicked the field goal, Rod), a few bad throws by Kitna (or lack of effort by Williams...not sure which), and a lucky break for the Vikings (That first fumble recovery wasn't a fumble...Furrey never had possession) was the difference in this game.

But, we won...and that's what counts.


Does that in any way diminish the fact taht Brad Johnson cost us the Chicago game?
TWICE (His 4th quarter fumble in the first game set up the game winning TD by Chicago)?!?!?!?
Does it alter his pathetic performance versus San Fransisco?
Versus Buffalo?
Versus New England?
Versus Miami?
Nope, not one iota.

I have been critical of the Offense all season...even early on when we were 4-2 and people were getting ticked about critical comments...all because I saw the writing on the wall.
An Offense that cannot score touchdowns and hang on to the football cannot win, and we've had trouble with both all season.


And, blame who you want.
Blame Childress' play calling - I have.
Blame the O-Line...been there.
Blame the Receivers...done that.
But I stuck up for Brad Johnson....all the way through the 1st half of the second Chicago game.


Well, I can't alter the play calling, the O-Line has gotten better, and Williamson was out of the mix (got a few nice catches today though).
Brad Johnson continued to stink.


It is my opinion that we cannot afford to have a "Hot-n-Cold" QB on the field.
We cannot afford the many mistakes of a guy who was billed as a guy who won't lose games for you...but does.
We NEED something different.

Now, after today's warm fuzzies, I'm betting heavily on Johnson starting versus New York.
We'll see how that turns out.
Right now, the Jets are being DESTROYED by the Bills.
And, they're doing it with some fantastic running by McGahee and bad throws by Pennington.
We NEED this win to have any resonable hope of making the play-offs.
We NEED to take it to New York like they just stole the last twinkie and didn't offer to share.
Each game from here on out is "Must Win"...there is no room for error.

Do we really WANT to put taht in the hands of a guy who has made so many game costing errors this season?
I don't.
But, with so much on the line, I don't see what alternative we have.

Caine

nephilimstorm
12-10-2006, 06:48 PM
Can someone be the PPO editor as a title lol, geesh some posts need a literary agent and some need a garbage storage lol...anyways back to the posts lol

P.S just a kick in the arse not a finger being pointed lol

VikesfaninWis
12-10-2006, 06:56 PM
He is also not the reason why we are now 6-7.. It hasn't been BJ that got us wins this season.. It has been our defense all season long.. Hell, it hasn't even been our offense that got us to the 6 win mark.. Our offense is so hit and miss it isn't even funny anymore.. BJ can go and throw 3 TD passes one week, then the next 4 weeks he can average 3-4 picks a game.. He is to sporatic, add that with his age, and he is sure to be gone at the end of the season..

nephilimstorm
12-10-2006, 07:06 PM
I agree with you, but also I say you don't give someone a continue on there contract for turning around and handing off the ball. Also if they throw INT's in the Big Ones

ejmat
12-11-2006, 08:47 AM
"Caine" wrote:


Brad Johnson is not - and never has been - the totality of why we're now 6-7.
That much is, and always was, true.

He has not, however, been the driving force that a starting QB needs to be in order to propel his offense, and his team, towards victory.
We've seen it week in and week out, the Vikes either struggle to stay close and steal one, or get ahead early (like today), then sputter and let the other team back in.


Brad Johnson put Detroit on the board today and put life back into their team after we had pummeled them for 20 unanswered points.
When all was said and done, a few bad play choices by Marinelli (Should have kicked the field goal, Rod), a few bad throws by Kitna (or lack of effort by Williams...not sure which), and a lucky break for the Vikings (That first fumble recovery wasn't a fumble...Furrey never had possession) was the difference in this game.

But, we won...and that's what counts.


Does that in any way diminish the fact taht Brad Johnson cost us the Chicago game?
TWICE (His 4th quarter fumble in the first game set up the game winning TD by Chicago)?!?!?!?
Does it alter his pathetic performance versus San Fransisco?
Versus Buffalo?
Versus New England?
Versus Miami?
Nope, not one iota.

I have been critical of the Offense all season...even early on when we were 4-2 and people were getting ticked about critical comments...all because I saw the writing on the wall.
An Offense that cannot score touchdowns and hang on to the football cannot win, and we've had trouble with both all season.


And, blame who you want.
Blame Childress' play calling - I have.
Blame the O-Line...been there.
Blame the Receivers...done that.
But I stuck up for Brad Johnson....all the way through the 1st half of the second Chicago game.


Well, I can't alter the play calling, the O-Line has gotten better, and Williamson was out of the mix (got a few nice catches today though).
Brad Johnson continued to stink.


It is my opinion that we cannot afford to have a "Hot-n-Cold" QB on the field.
We cannot afford the many mistakes of a guy who was billed as a guy who won't lose games for you...but does.
We NEED something different.

Now, after today's warm fuzzies, I'm betting heavily on Johnson starting versus New York.
We'll see how that turns out.
Right now, the Jets are being DESTROYED by the Bills.
And, they're doing it with some fantastic running by McGahee and bad throws by Pennington.
We NEED this win to have any resonable hope of making the play-offs.
We NEED to take it to New York like they just stole the last twinkie and didn't offer to share.
Each game from here on out is "Must Win"...there is no room for error.

Do we really WANT to put taht in the hands of a guy who has made so many game costing errors this season?
I don't.
But, with so much on the line, I don't see what alternative we have.

Caine


Hey Caine, good post.
I agree with you on everything here except for what I bolded.
I do not believe that fumble was his fault.
I think that fumble is just as much the right side of the OLine's fault.
Tommie Harris should have never been that far in the backfield that soon.
It totally effected the handoff.
I just think that was a good play by a good player in Tommie Harris.

whackthepack
12-11-2006, 09:48 AM
"modena11" wrote:


where was this defence for culpepper last year?

anyways, you obviously have to agree here, even though that was a terribly written piece.



What the hell are you talking about?
The Vike's defense played very well last year and if you blame them for Culpeppers problems last year you are fooling yourself and making excuses for Daunte.

snowinapril
12-11-2006, 10:04 AM
"ejmat" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


Brad Johnson is not - and never has been - the totality of why we're now 6-7.
That much is, and always was, true.

He has not, however, been the driving force that a starting QB needs to be in order to propel his offense, and his team, towards victory.
We've seen it week in and week out, the Vikes either struggle to stay close and steal one, or get ahead early (like today), then sputter and let the other team back in.


Brad Johnson put Detroit on the board today and put life back into their team after we had pummeled them for 20 unanswered points.
When all was said and done, a few bad play choices by Marinelli (Should have kicked the field goal, Rod), a few bad throws by Kitna (or lack of effort by Williams...not sure which), and a lucky break for the Vikings (That first fumble recovery wasn't a fumble...Furrey never had possession) was the difference in this game.

But, we won...and that's what counts.


Does that in any way diminish the fact taht Brad Johnson cost us the Chicago game?
TWICE (His 4th quarter fumble in the first game set up the game winning TD by Chicago)?!?!?!?
Does it alter his pathetic performance versus San Fransisco?
Versus Buffalo?
Versus New England?
Versus Miami?
Nope, not one iota.

I have been critical of the Offense all season...even early on when we were 4-2 and people were getting ticked about critical comments...all because I saw the writing on the wall.
An Offense that cannot score touchdowns and hang on to the football cannot win, and we've had trouble with both all season.


And, blame who you want.
Blame Childress' play calling - I have.
Blame the O-Line...been there.
Blame the Receivers...done that.
But I stuck up for Brad Johnson....all the way through the 1st half of the second Chicago game.


Well, I can't alter the play calling, the O-Line has gotten better, and Williamson was out of the mix (got a few nice catches today though).
Brad Johnson continued to stink.


It is my opinion that we cannot afford to have a "Hot-n-Cold" QB on the field.
We cannot afford the many mistakes of a guy who was billed as a guy who won't lose games for you...but does.
We NEED something different.

Now, after today's warm fuzzies, I'm betting heavily on Johnson starting versus New York.
We'll see how that turns out.
Right now, the Jets are being DESTROYED by the Bills.
And, they're doing it with some fantastic running by McGahee and bad throws by Pennington.
We NEED this win to have any resonable hope of making the play-offs.
We NEED to take it to New York like they just stole the last twinkie and didn't offer to share.
Each game from here on out is "Must Win"...there is no room for error.

Do we really WANT to put taht in the hands of a guy who has made so many game costing errors this season?
I don't.
But, with so much on the line, I don't see what alternative we have.

Caine


Hey Caine, good post.
I agree with you on everything here except for what I bolded.
I do not believe that fumble was his fault.
I think that fumble is just as much the right side of the OLine's fault.
Tommie Harris should have never been that far in the backfield that soon.
It totally effected the handoff.
I just think that was a good play by a good player in Tommie Harris.


If I remember that play right, it was CT's fault. He made a couple of steps before Harris who jumped the count (admittedly) got in there to knock it out. RB has to secure the ball.
The line was shifting and Harris got through the gap because he was off the ball so fast.

CCthebest
12-11-2006, 10:26 AM
I dont recall anyone saying the reason we lost so many was entirely BJs fault. But BJ is to blame for a lot of it. Look at his TDs to INTs. Look at his QB rating. Look at all his intentional grounding plays. Any QB in the legue can make the short little passes that BJ does. But BJ is so inacccurate when he throws long.

Not all is his fault. But he singlehandedly lost games for us. The WCO sucks IMO, I like seeing the long balls. Watching other games, theres a ton more long balls.

IMO BJ shouldnt even be a back up QB.

Prophet
12-11-2006, 10:55 AM
"Caine" wrote:


...Do we really WANT to put that in the hands of a guy who has made so many game costing errors this season?
I don't.
But, with so much on the line, I don't see what alternative we have.

Caine


Sums it all up right there.


After the offseason moves were completed many stated that if BJ goes down to injury the season is over, The flip-side that wasn't discussed rationaly was what would happen if BJ didn't play BJesque ball.
I would be surprised if Bollinger does not get the nod next weekend if he is healthy.

Del Rio
12-11-2006, 11:10 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:


"ejmat" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


Brad Johnson is not - and never has been - the totality of why we're now 6-7.
That much is, and always was, true.

He has not, however, been the driving force that a starting QB needs to be in order to propel his offense, and his team, towards victory.
We've seen it week in and week out, the Vikes either struggle to stay close and steal one, or get ahead early (like today), then sputter and let the other team back in.


Brad Johnson put Detroit on the board today and put life back into their team after we had pummeled them for 20 unanswered points.
When all was said and done, a few bad play choices by Marinelli (Should have kicked the field goal, Rod), a few bad throws by Kitna (or lack of effort by Williams...not sure which), and a lucky break for the Vikings (That first fumble recovery wasn't a fumble...Furrey never had possession) was the difference in this game.

But, we won...and that's what counts.


Does that in any way diminish the fact taht Brad Johnson cost us the Chicago game?
TWICE (His 4th quarter fumble in the first game set up the game winning TD by Chicago)?!?!?!?
Does it alter his pathetic performance versus San Fransisco?
Versus Buffalo?
Versus New England?
Versus Miami?
Nope, not one iota.

I have been critical of the Offense all season...even early on when we were 4-2 and people were getting ticked about critical comments...all because I saw the writing on the wall.
An Offense that cannot score touchdowns and hang on to the football cannot win, and we've had trouble with both all season.


And, blame who you want.
Blame Childress' play calling - I have.
Blame the O-Line...been there.
Blame the Receivers...done that.
But I stuck up for Brad Johnson....all the way through the 1st half of the second Chicago game.


Well, I can't alter the play calling, the O-Line has gotten better, and Williamson was out of the mix (got a few nice catches today though).
Brad Johnson continued to stink.


It is my opinion that we cannot afford to have a "Hot-n-Cold" QB on the field.
We cannot afford the many mistakes of a guy who was billed as a guy who won't lose games for you...but does.
We NEED something different.

Now, after today's warm fuzzies, I'm betting heavily on Johnson starting versus New York.
We'll see how that turns out.
Right now, the Jets are being DESTROYED by the Bills.
And, they're doing it with some fantastic running by McGahee and bad throws by Pennington.
We NEED this win to have any resonable hope of making the play-offs.
We NEED to take it to New York like they just stole the last twinkie and didn't offer to share.
Each game from here on out is "Must Win"...there is no room for error.

Do we really WANT to put taht in the hands of a guy who has made so many game costing errors this season?
I don't.
But, with so much on the line, I don't see what alternative we have.

Caine


Hey Caine, good post.
I agree with you on everything here except for what I bolded.
I do not believe that fumble was his fault.
I think that fumble is just as much the right side of the OLine's fault.
Tommie Harris should have never been that far in the backfield that soon.
It totally effected the handoff.
I just think that was a good play by a good player in Tommie Harris.


If I remember that play right, it was CT's fault. He made a couple of steps before Harris who jumped the count (admittedly) got in there to knock it out. RB has to secure the ball.
The line was shifting and Harris got through the gap because he was off the ball so fast.


Yes I don't think it is fair to blame that one on Brad Johnson and in all reality it probably isn't fair to blame it on Taylor either. You know how finger pointing goes though, you have to find someone and make sure you cram enough mistakes into the explanation regardless of if it was his fault or not.

By design this offense will ALWAYS look short to deep in progressions, that is what it does. For every mistake someone wants to tag to Brad there are two for the offensive line. For every misplaced pass there is a dropped pass. For every accurate stretch of downs we managed there was a costly false start or hold.

It would take one hell of a leader to be able to fix every problem we have on the field. Slowly time has corrected some, we are already running the ball more effectively, which is easier then pass protecting when it comes to being familiar with your teamates tendencies IMO.

Does Brad need to go? Yes he does.

I honestly do not think there is one person in the entire NFL that could come in here and succeed right now with the salvation army talent we have at WR, the swiss cheese pass blocking, the drops, and the penalties.

People are quick to blame, and the truth of the matter is we have no idea. Yes he threw a pic against the Lions that went for a score, and how exactly are we to know that his hand me down WR didn't zig when he should of zagged on a timing route? Right now I trust the coaching staff because I have to, because at the end of the day they are the only people who can say without a doubt who's fault it was.

The one thing I guarantee, is that every single person on our offense has been responsible for mistakes at one point or another this season Brad Johnson included.

davike
12-11-2006, 11:48 AM
"CCthebest" wrote:


I dont recall anyone saying the reason we lost so many was entirely BJs fault. But BJ is to blame for a lot of it. Look at his TDs to INTs. Look at his QB rating. Look at all his intentional grounding plays. Any QB in the legue can make the short little passes that BJ does. But BJ is so inacccurate when he throws long.

Not all is his fault. But he singlehandedly lost games for us. The WCO sucks IMO, I like seeing the long balls. Watching other games, theres a ton more long balls.

IMO BJ shouldnt even be a back up QB.


how many intentional grounding penalties can you come up with on BJ, but the fact that you feel that that is BJs fault is not right, the line and others involved in the blocking scheme should not let defenders get past them so quick that BJ can't even think of a good spot to ground it. the reasons for the dumpoffs and short passes are:
1 the WCO revolves around short passes and good run game.
2 i believe that BJ lost alot of faith in his WRs, even when he did throw a perfect long ball they usually wouldn't come up with it. if you were BJ would you rather lose a down with out getting any yardage or would you dump off for a few yards? and BJ hasn't been perfect on accuracy, but you make it sound as if he is throwing every pass terribly, he makes a few bad throws a game, that isn't bad, every QB makes a few bad throws a game. BJs picks: i can't remember all of them, but i think alot of BJs picks aren't his fault. take one of the picks he threw at chicago, he threw the ball perfectly, it bounced off dugans chest and right into the hands of the defender. BJ can't do it all, he needs help from his WRs and they aren't giving him any at all. i dont think that BJ should be starting right now as he is not playing like his usuall consistent self, but i don't know how you would think that he shouldn't be a back up. and if you liked the long balls and don't like the WCO, then i would recommend getting some tape of the games of the Daunte/Moss era and watching that on sundays instead of the live game. they aren't going to throw any more long balls till we get some WRs that can catch them, right now when we do throw the long ball, we just waste a down.

V4L
12-11-2006, 11:51 AM
B.J isn't the only reason why we are 6-7.. But he is the main reason





One Love

ejmat
12-11-2006, 07:37 PM
"V4L" wrote:


B.J isn't the only reason why we are 6-7.. But he is the main reason





One Love


Not even close to being the main reason.
We've all said this who knows how many times?
There are many factors that go into each and every play.
Everyone that says BJ can't throw the long ball is wrong.
He's thrown several right on target that have been dropped.
That will stop coaches from calling those kind of plays.
We've had several long gains taken away due to penalties.


People, before this week we had the 14th best offense in the NFL.
Maybe not in points scoring but the problems have been in the redzone once we get there.
We've had a few 3 and outs but not many (I don't think) compared to other teams.
Yes I agree this is BJs last year starting.
Unfortunately he has been given the bad rap for a bunch of pop warner mistakes by his teammates (i.e. dropped passes, blocking errors, and penalties).
Bottom line is BJ has had his worst season because of a couple of bad games.
He has made bad decisions this year unlike the BJ of past.
But he is still not the blame for the Vikings being 6-7 unless you count the games he has won for us.
Namely the first 2 when he drove them down the filed late in the game.
If it weren't for him they could be 4-9 right now.
If it weren't for dropped passes and bad penalties they can be 10-3 right now.
Those are obviously big "IFs"

modena11
12-12-2006, 12:05 AM
"whackthepack" wrote:


"modena11" wrote:


where was this defence for culpepper last year?

anyways, you obviously have to agree here, even though that was a terribly written piece.



What the hell are you talking about?
The Vike's defense played very well last year and if you blame them for Culpeppers problems last year you are fooling yourself and making excuses for Daunte.


what are you talking about? daunte was 2-5. in those seven games, the defence was still gelling, our o-line was terrible(not just the right side, the entire revolving door line), we had the same receivers, and no running game. daunte screwed the pooch by trying to do everything. not till after daunte got injured did the defence and line improve.

i just said "where was this reasoning with daunte" because its the truth. no one seemed to notice the sad excuse for a run game and o line and just saw the turnovers. now people are saying its not just brad, which is also the truth. brad is committing the same crippling mistakes but people are seeing how his protection isnt the greatest etc.

now i dont want to turn this into a daunte thread. but i personally have seen the writing on the wall with brad since last year. he went 7-2 last year and that was great, but then as it is now, the defence carried us.

i had some renewed optimism in our offence this year with the new line, new RB, new coach and system. but the same brad remained.

snowinapril
12-12-2006, 01:39 AM
"modena11" wrote:


i just said "where was this reasoning with daunte" because its the truth. no one seemed to notice the sad excuse for a run game and o line and just saw the turnovers. now people are saying its not just brad, which is also the truth. brad is committing the same crippling mistakes but people are seeing how his protection isnt the greatest etc.

now i dont want to turn this into a daunte thread. but i personally have seen the writing on the wall with brad since last year. he went 7-2 last year and that was great, but then as it is now, the defence carried us.

i had some renewed optimism in our offence this year with the new line, new RB, new coach and system. but the same brad remained.




I feel the same way as you do about those statements.

A lot of the TO last year were not soley the QBs fault.
Too many other probs going on at the same time.
I will leave it at that.

I had that optimism before
the season and into the first 4 games it was held.
I was duped into thinking that Brad was the Brad of old, just to realize that Brad is just too old.


Brad is/was doing the same things that DC did last year.
Trying to do to much to cover up for the lack of O production and committing the TO in the process.
Same stuff different year and different QB.

MaddenVodkaAddict
12-12-2006, 03:14 AM
How can you put Mr. Johnson and anything negative related to offense in the same sentence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcwFNHCVu1U