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Ayresd
11-20-2006, 10:07 AM
My compatriot AngloVike touched on a good point.

So without me demanding Childress' head on a platter and yes 'HELL' we should never have let Linehan go.
What should we expect from a rookie Head Coach??

Rookies With Team

SAINTS 6-4
CHIEFS 6-4
JETS 5-5
VIKES 4-6
BILLS 4-6
RAMS 4-6
**CKERS 4-6
TEXANS 3-7
LIONS 2-8
RAIDERS 2-8

(written in haste if anyone missed or an error please comment)
We also know that team members should be stepping up, but it is obvious other teams are in the same situation.

PS, I hope, AngloVike, you have a good trip to see the Cards on your pilgrimmage.

Freya
11-20-2006, 11:02 AM
Just for fun........and maybe a little perspective.....

Jimmy Johnson's first year with Dallas and Troy Aikman;

1-15

3 years later SB Champions. Not a single fan remembered that first year, I bet.

Prophet
11-20-2006, 11:05 AM
"Freya" wrote:


Just for fun........and maybe a little perspective.....

Jimmy Johnson's first year with Dallas and Troy Aikman;

1-15

3 years later SB Champions. Not a single fan remembered that first year, I bet.


Good point.
There are many situations where the first year coach has struggles.
Bud Grant had a losing first season and the team even struggled when he was re-hired for a year after the Steckel debacle.
Many have the TV mentality with an attention span of 30 seconds instead of the long-term.

AngloVike
11-20-2006, 11:10 AM
"Acumen" wrote:


"Freya" wrote:


Just for fun........and maybe a little perspective.....

Jimmy Johnson's first year with Dallas and Troy Aikman;

1-15

3 years later SB Champions. Not a single fan remembered that first year, I bet.


Good point.
There are many situations where the first year coach has struggles.
Bud Grant had a losing first season and the team even struggled when he was re-hired for a year after the Steckel debacle.
Many have the TV mentality with an attention span of 30 seconds instead of the long-term.


Exactly its not like the movies where it all gets turned around in a matter of a couple of games. Things take time- whats the saying " no pain, no gain " ..

Thanks Ayresd, whatever our results up til now I'm always optimistic when I travel to the Dome. 60 mins of Vikes football and passion
;D

snowinapril
11-20-2006, 11:37 AM
"Ayresd" wrote:


My compatriot AngloVike touched on a good point.

So without me demanding Childress' head on a platter and yes 'HELL' we should never have let Linehan go.
What should we expect from a rookie Head Coach??

Rookies With Team

SAINTS 6-4
CHIEFS 6-4
JETS 5-5
VIKES 4-6
BILLS 4-6
RAMS 4-6
**CKERS 4-6
TEXANS 3-7
LIONS 2-8
RAIDERS 2-8

(written in haste if anyone missed or an error please comment)
We also know that team members should be stepping up, but it is obvious other teams are in the same situation.

PS, I hope, AngloVike, you have a good trip to see the Cards on your pilgrimmage.


SAINTS 6-4 - Good job by Malcom in the Middle!
CHIEFS 6-4 - Inheritted decent team.
JETS 5-5 -
Same old Jets, up and down, with a new coach.
VIKES 4-6 - ??? AVG team
BILLS 4-6 - AVG team
RAMS 4-6 - Don't look much better than the Vikes, inherrited a lot of good O players.
Should be doing better IMO.
**CKERS 4-6 - AVG team
TEXANS 3-7 - Below AVG team, the new age Yuccaneers.
LIONS 2-8 - Below AVG team
RAIDERS 2-8 - Below AVG team with a below AVG coach.
Shell already proved this last time around.

Did anyone expect more from any of the teams?

Of course WE expected more as Viking Fans, but was it realistic?

I expected more from the Chiefs.
Herm walked into a good situation there.
He is an experienced HC in this league, not really a rook.

Heck, look at the SuperBowl Champs 4-6, and their non-rookie head coach of 14-15 yrs?? not sure how long, but he started with the Steelers about the same time Denny started in MN.
Bad year? Injuries?

To answer the BIG question, More... as fans we all want more.

whackthepack
11-20-2006, 11:38 AM
A look at some of the best head coaches in NFL history and how they did their 1st few years as head coach.



Bill Belichick
(best coach in the game today)

1st head coaching job the Cleveland Browns (original ones)

1991
6 - 10
1992
7 - 9
1993
7 - 9
1994
11 - 5
1995
5 - 11 (fired)



Jimmy Johnson
(Dallas)

1989
1 - 15
1990
7 - 9
1991
11 - 5
1 - 1 playoffs
1992
13 - 3
3 - 0 playoffs
1993
12 - 4
3 - 0 playoffs


Bud Grant
(Vikings)

1967
3 - 8 - 3
1968
8 - 6



0 - 1 playoffs
1969
12 - 2


2 - 1 playoffs
1970
12 - 2


0 - 1 playoffs
1971
11 - 3


0 - 1 Playoffs
1972
7 - 7


Bill Parcels
(Giants)

1983

3 - 12 - 1
1984

9 - 7





1 - 1 playoffs
1985

10 - 6





1 - 1 playoffs
1986

14 - 2





3 - 0 playoffs



Tom Landry
(Dallas)

1960

0 - 11 - 1
1961

4 -
9 - 1
1962

5 -
8 - 1
1963

4 - 10
1964

5 -
8 - 1
1965

7 - 7
1966

10 - 3 - 1



0 - 1 Playoffs
1967

9 - 5






1 - 1 playoffs
1968

12 - 2





0 - 1 Playoffs


Bill Walsh
(49ers)

1979

2 - 14
1980

6 - 10
1981

13 - 3



3 - 0 playoffs
1982

3 - 6
1983

10 - 6



1 - 1 playoffs
1984

15 - 1



3 - 0 Playoffs



Chuck Noll (Pitt)
4 time Superbowl winning head coach

1969

1 - 13
1970

5 - 9
1971

6 - 8
1972
11 - 3



1- 1 playoffs
1973
10 - 4



0 - 1 playoffs
1974
10 - 3 - 1
3 - 0 playoffs
1975
12 - 2



3 - 0 playoffs

whackthepack
11-21-2006, 09:56 AM
Would some of these great coaches made it in the NFL today?

Tom Landry probably wouldn't have made it past season 4!
Would he have gotten another chance in the NFL?

He went on to become one of the all time winningest coaches in NFL history and won 2 Superbowls.


Would Chuck Noll made it past season 3?

Prophet
11-21-2006, 10:02 AM
If it was up to the fans they would have been axed.
Thankfully, the people that run the operations in football have a wealth of experience in business, in football, or both.
Some fans get angry when you say something like the cumulative years of the coaching staff actually coaching football is >100 yrs.
Somehow someone that has played and never coached or coached at a marginal level is more knowledgeable than someone who devotes 80+ hrs a week for decades into the game.
That is ludicrous.
It's like a graduate student thinking they know more than their committee about a topic when their cumulative experience in the field is >100 yrs.
Impossible.
That doesn't mean we don't have opinions and we're not correct sometimes, but to think we know more is insanity.
However, the reality is that there is and always will be a scapegoat when things aren't going right.
That will never change, right or wrong, the blame will go to the leaders on the field or in the clubhouse.
The fun continues.

singersp
11-21-2006, 09:59 PM
"Ayresd" wrote:


My compatriot AngloVike touched on a good point.

So without me demanding Childress' head on a platter and yes 'HELL' we should never have let Linehan go.
What should we expect from a rookie Head Coach??

Rookies With Team

SAINTS 6-4
CHIEFS 6-4
JETS 5-5
VIKES 4-6
BILLS 4-6
RAMS 4-6
**CKERS 4-6
TEXANS 3-7
LIONS 2-8
RAIDERS 2-8

(written in haste if anyone missed or an error please comment)
We also know that team members should be stepping up, but it is obvious other teams are in the same situation.

PS, I hope, AngloVike, you have a good trip to see the Cards on your pilgrimmage.




Three of those you listed, are not even rookie coaches.

Chiefs HC, Herm Edwards coached the NY Jets for 5 years. This is his 6th year as a HC.

Bills HC Dick Jauron coached the Bears for 5 years & Detroit 1. This is his 6th year as a HC.

Raiders HC Art Shell coached the LA Raiders for 6 years. This is his 7th year as a HC.

You can't consider these 3 as rookie head coaches.

Your list should be more like this;

SAINTS 6-4
JETS 5-5
VIKES 4-6
RAMS 4-6
PACKERS 4-6
TEXANS 3-7
LIONS 2-8

i_bleed_purple
11-21-2006, 10:38 PM
but if you rank those teams, it will be more like this


SAINTS
6-4
JETS

5-5
PACKERS
4-6
RAMS
4-6
VIKES
4-6
TEXANS
3-7
LIONS
2-8

not looking too good, being behind a team like the packers is not good

even if you include those other teams, it looks like this

SAINTS
6-4
CHIEFS
6-4
JETS

5-5
BILLS
4-6
**CKERS
4-6
RAMS
4-6
VIKES
4-6
TEXANS
3-7
LIONS
2-8
RAIDERS
2-8

7th out of 10, not good at all

VikesfaninWis
11-21-2006, 11:36 PM
Singers beat me to it.. I was going to say that..

1. Chiefs- Herm Edwards

2. Bills- Dick Jaroun

3. Raiders- Art Shell

Those 3 are not rookie HC's, just with different teams now.. Art Shell is actually with the same team that he coached previously.. Either way, with the talent that we have on this team, we should be doing much better with or without a rookie HC.. It is pretty sad, Childress most likely won't even match Tice's record of last season during all that turmoil.. Not looking good so far..

marantzo
11-22-2006, 10:44 AM
I haven't been able to get here in the last few weeks, and a painful few weeks they have been. Comparing our first year coach to others is the same as answering complaints about high taxes and giving examples of places with higher taxes. Who cares. You can always find examples ones who are/were worse than your own example.


After the game two weeks ago I was thinking, B. Johnson does not seem to be efficient anymore and that has always been his strength. But, the main problem as I saw it was the offensive line playing way below their ability protection wise, the pass defence either acheiving a turn over once or twice in a game or being no defence at all, and the recievers dropping passes as if on schedule.


After last weeks game my mind has changed a bit. I was one of the few, maybe only, people/person who didn't think that they should have let Tice go. I thought he did a good job the last half of last year and seemed to know what the team was capable of and got the most out of it. I thought they should have given him another year, but I wasn't terribly upset and thought that Childress was a good pick. After the first part of the season I figured that the management sure knew what they were doing when they let Tice go and picked up Childress. Now I'm not so sure. And it's not just losing these games to decidely mediocre competition that bothers me, it's the coaches tendency to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. It seems almost like a stubborness to admit that it was a mistaken move in the first place. The play calling in crucial situations has been uniformly terrible, game in and game out. This is not the teams fault, this is the coaches fault. And if the team is lackinjg in some areas, you play to their strengths, you don't try to force something that they haven't shown proficiency in and the defence seems to be doing very well against. Just one example, how many times has it been 3rd and 3-4 etc. and instead of throwing a short pass which is one of the areas where we do well, we either throw a long one (either not surpising the opposition or having it dropped) or a pass shorter than the yardage needed. The coaches timing on when to use this play or that play is almost the opposite of what should be.


I haven't been here for a while so I don't know what has been said or even if he is still calling the plays, but if he is, he should stop and let the OC do the job.
And who in the hell is calling the defensive schemes for the pass defenders. They make very average QB's look like Marino.

Purple Floyd
11-22-2006, 04:18 PM
"whackthepack" wrote:


A look at some of the best head coaches in NFL history and how they did their 1st few years as head coach.



Bill Belichick
(best coach in the game today)

1st head coaching job the Cleveland Browns (original ones)

1991
6 - 10
1992
7 - 9
1993
7 - 9
1994
11 - 5
1995
5 - 11 (fired)



Jimmy Johnson
(Dallas)

1989
1 - 15
1990
7 - 9
1991
11 - 5
1 - 1 playoffs
1992
13 - 3
3 - 0 playoffs
1993
12 - 4
3 - 0 playoffs


Bud Grant
(Vikings)

1967
3 - 8 - 3
1968
8 - 6



0 - 1 playoffs
1969
12 - 2


2 - 1 playoffs
1970
12 - 2


0 - 1 playoffs
1971
11 - 3


0 - 1 Playoffs
1972
7 - 7


Bill Parcels
(Giants)

1983

3 - 12 - 1
1984

9 - 7





1 - 1 playoffs
1985

10 - 6





1 - 1 playoffs
1986

14 - 2





3 - 0 playoffs



Tom Landry
(Dallas)

1960

0 - 11 - 1
1961

4 -
9 - 1
1962

5 -
8 - 1
1963

4 - 10
1964

5 -
8 - 1
1965

7 - 7
1966

10 - 3 - 1



0 - 1 Playoffs
1967

9 - 5






1 - 1 playoffs
1968

12 - 2





0 - 1 Playoffs


Bill Walsh
(49ers)

1979

2 - 14
1980

6 - 10
1981

13 - 3



3 - 0 playoffs
1982

3 - 6
1983

10 - 6



1 - 1 playoffs
1984

15 - 1



3 - 0 Playoffs



Chuck Noll (Pitt)
4 time Superbowl winning head coach

1969

1 - 13
1970

5 - 9
1971

6 - 8
1972
11 - 3



1- 1 playoffs
1973
10 - 4



0 - 1 playoffs
1974
10 - 3 - 1
3 - 0 playoffs
1975
12 - 2



3 - 0 playoffs



I think it is a little premature to use these coaches as examples of where we are going to in the future.

Belechek:
He has shown that even with losing key players on a regular basis, that having the right position coaches and signing intelligent players that can understand the scheme can overcome free agency and injuries. He also developed Brady, who came in green early in his career and led the team to win the super bowl in his first year on the field.

Jimmy Johnson: The reason he won all of those championships is largely due to all of the players and draft picks we sent to them for Hershel Walker. That topic should never be brought up again unless we can send Bryany McKinnie to them for about 14 draft picks and starters.

Bud Grant, Landry,Noll and even walsh to some extent all coached prior to the changes in free agency where you could build a team around a group of players and know you have the time to develop them. That will never happen again. In today's NFL you unfortunately have to hit the ground running and not look back if you are going to have success. After each season you have turnover in coaches and players and if you are going to wait for each new team to develop you will never have success.

whackthepack
11-22-2006, 04:40 PM
"UffDaVikes" wrote:


"whackthepack" wrote:


A look at some of the best head coaches in NFL history and how they did their 1st few years as head coach.



Bill Belichick
(best coach in the game today)

1st head coaching job the Cleveland Browns (original ones)

1991

6 - 10
1992

7 - 9
1993

7 - 9
1994
11 - 5
1995

5 - 11 (fired)



Jimmy Johnson
(Dallas)

1989

1 - 15
1990

7 - 9
1991
11 - 5

1 - 1 playoffs
1992
13 - 3

3 - 0 playoffs
1993
12 - 4

3 - 0 playoffs


Bud Grant
(Vikings)

1967

3 - 8 - 3
1968

8 - 6



0 - 1 playoffs
1969
12 - 2



2 - 1 playoffs
1970
12 - 2



0 - 1 playoffs
1971
11 - 3



0 - 1 Playoffs
1972

7 - 7


Bill Parcels
(Giants)

1983


3 - 12 - 1
1984


9 - 7






1 - 1 playoffs
1985

10 - 6





1 - 1 playoffs
1986

14 - 2





3 - 0 playoffs



Tom Landry
(Dallas)

1960


0 - 11 - 1
1961


4 -
9 - 1
1962


5 -
8 - 1
1963


4 - 10
1964


5 -
8 - 1
1965


7 - 7
1966

10 - 3 - 1



0 - 1 Playoffs
1967


9 - 5






1 - 1 playoffs
1968

12 - 2






0 - 1 Playoffs


Bill Walsh
(49ers)

1979


2 - 14
1980


6 - 10
1981

13 - 3




3 - 0 playoffs
1982


3 - 6
1983

10 - 6




1 - 1 playoffs
1984

15 - 1




3 - 0 Playoffs



Chuck Noll (Pitt)
4 time Superbowl winning head coach

1969

1 - 13
1970

5 - 9
1971

6 - 8
1972

11 - 3



1- 1 playoffs
1973

10 - 4



0 - 1 playoffs
1974

10 - 3 - 1

3 - 0 playoffs
1975

12 - 2



3 - 0 playoffs



I think it is a little premature to use these coaches as examples of where we are going to in the future.
Belechek:

He has shown that even with losing key players on a regular basis, that having the right position coaches and signing intelligent players that can understand the scheme can overcome free agency and injuries. He also developed Brady, who came in green early in his career and led the team to win the super bowl in his first year on the field.

Jimmy Johnson: The reason he won all of those championships is largely due to all of the players and draft picks we sent to them for Hershel Walker. That topic should never be brought up again unless we can send Bryany McKinnie to them for about 14 draft picks and starters.

Bud Grant, Landry,Noll and even walsh to some extent all coached prior to the changes in free agency where you could build a team around a group of players and know you have the time to develop them. That will never happen again. In today's NFL you unfortunately have to hit the ground running and not look back if you are going to have success. After each season you have turnover in coaches and players and if you are going to wait for each new team to develop you will never have success.



Never said it was where we are going in the future!
It was used to show posters on here that you can't judge a head coach on half a season!

There was no free agency, but you also got to keep players that would have left in free agency and build a team and a system so it was not tougher and it is not tougher now, it is different than it was.

And that may be where Belichick is today, but his 1st chance at a head-coaching job was a failer.
And he turned out OK!
But after a 5 game losing streak there are Viking fans that want Childress gone and that is ridiculous.

And not all the moves that Jimmy Johnson and Jimmy Jones did was from the Viking's trade, it was big part of it but they over a 2 year period they made an incredible amount of deals and trades to build the team they did in Dallas.