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VikingsTw
11-12-2006, 05:06 PM
4-5, three losses in row, to two teams that are below average. Brad Johnson continues too turn the ball over. We can hardly score points, we practictly have to get luckly to score on offense. The McMillen bomb, lol. That was a free bee and it don't happen very often, not enough to win off of.

I can't pin point exactly what is wrong with the offense, we didn't drop any passes today so that wasn't a problem. We had a little running game but it seemed as though they where ready for it on every 1st and 2nd down. 9 games into the season i sit down to watch another game and its the same story week after week. I call it the "Brad Childress Story". Would it kill us to make a QB change? Put in Tavaris whos got a cannon and the ability to break free from the pass rush, maybe a guy who will take the play from childress read the defense and call an audible. I havn't seen Johnson call any audibles, he just gets up there and runs the same ole stuff over and over, those guys got to be loosing a little interest. They don't believe in it and i don't see anything changing if things stay the way they are.

The defense didn't play great but they kept us in the game. We had oportunity after oportunity to score and couldn't do it. I guess you could say had the refs not called blocking in the back on pinner we may have one that game, but week after week we'll have to continue to beat the refs, thats just the way it is as a viking fan. More often than not we seem to be on the recieving end of bad calls. So we need to score more points and more often on offense. I don't believe that will happen under Johnson, keeping him in will probably continue the three game loosing streak we are on and garunting us we won't make it far.

We have a huge beastly offensive line, they pass protect real well in the shotgun, but Johnson can't really use the shotgun. Tavaris can. He would make us much more versitle with play calling "If he knows the play book". He looked good in preseason, no plays on his wrist band, just went out there went through his progessions and threw some nice deep balls. He's a few weeks healed from his surgury. I start him next week, full week of practice. Regardless of whether he plays up to expectations or not we have absolutly nothing to loose. We got a well rounded pass blocking group of olineman who would be pumped to pass block for a guy who can give them some needed explosiveness. Free them up a bit, there constintly run blocking into 8 and 9 man fronts. There only human.

I don't know about everyone else but unless we make a change this season is a basicly over, i'll continue to watch the games because i don't miss any. But i'd rather watch us try to win with the talent we have.

threepete21
11-12-2006, 05:11 PM
I'm in, how much are tickets for the t-jack bandwagon?

VikingsTw
11-12-2006, 05:14 PM
"threepete21" wrote:


I'm in, how much are tickets for the **Rookie #3 QB** bandwagon?


There free you can get them in the lobby, Ms. Webby is passing them out.

By the way you never said what you would do? You got any ideas rookie?

ultravikingfan
11-12-2006, 05:16 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"threepete21" wrote:


I'm in, how much are tickets for the **Rookie #3 QB** bandwagon?


There free you can get them in the lobby, Ms. Webby is passing them out.

By the way you never said what you would do? You got any ideas big guy?


LOL!
Ruffled Feathers comes charging in!

BadlandsVikings
11-12-2006, 05:17 PM
I vote to change back to the old uniforms, and to stop talking about a #3 QB.

Webby
11-12-2006, 05:19 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"threepete21" wrote:


I'm in, how much are tickets for the **Rookie #3 QB** bandwagon?


There free you can get them in the lobby, Ms. Webby is passing them out.

By the way you never said what you would do? You got any ideas big guy?


LOL!
Ruffled Feathers comes charging in!


Is he talking about my wife?
I can't tell if I should load both barrels yet.
LOL

BadlandsVikings
11-12-2006, 05:23 PM
"Webby" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"threepete21" wrote:


I'm in, how much are tickets for the **Rookie #3 QB** bandwagon?


There free you can get them in the lobby, Ms. Webby is passing them out.

By the way you never said what you would do? You got any ideas big guy?


LOL!
Ruffled Feathers comes charging in!


Is he talking about my wife?
I can't tell if I should load both barrels yet.
LOL


I would say not, there isn't a Ms. Webby here.
:)

VikingsTw
11-12-2006, 05:26 PM
"WVV" wrote:


I vote to change back to the old uniforms, and to stop talking about a #3 QB.


Thing is this thread isn't about changing the uniforms, though i agree. And as far as Tavaris goes, you don't have to discuss tavaris, if you don't want to talk about him maybe go to another thread. You can talk about how much fun we are gonna have next week, playing Miami on the road who have just won two games in a row. We're going down to there house where they had enough balls change there QB. And i garuntee there pumped. Beat one of the better teams in the league in the bears. We're gonna go down there with Johnson at the helm? Our guys are real exited.

Would it really take us an injury to take Johnson out. Like it did smoot, it took uf forever to make that change, and it took an injury. Smoot stays out and Grifin stays in he played great today. He had a better game today that smoot has had with us yet.

Change is good when things arn't going well.

Purplemania
11-12-2006, 05:33 PM
Agree with everyone.

I'm sick of Brad Johnson as he and this offense is too predictable. Just put in Travaris and see what the hell happens......if he sucks to the max more then Brad--GOOD, we know we'll need to get a QB next year as well.

Why the hell do we still stick with Brad is beyond my knowledge, are we playing for the future or are we trying to win the superbowl?

VikingsTw
11-12-2006, 05:41 PM
"Purplemania" wrote:


Agree with everyone.

I'm sick of Brad Johnson as he and this offense is too predictable. Just put in Travaris and see what the hell happens......if he sucks to the max more then Brad--GOOD, we know we'll need to get a QB next year as well.

Why the hell do we still stick with Brad is beyond my knowledge, are we playing for the future or are we trying to win the superbowl?


If its up to me i play to win now, not saying we would win the superbowl but how much longer is Tomlin gonna be around. Probably not long there goes our D cordinator who has brought alot to this team. You play for the present every year, why give up, get those young guys some experience. If Tavaris doesn't do that well, oh well he's got something to learn from for the upcoming years. You gotta keep your fans into to, this is a bad time, i don't if i've ever seen the dome so quiet.

Purplemania
11-12-2006, 05:47 PM
I know what you're saying VTW but we got to get our rookies more playing time. I want to see more Ray Edwards and Greg Blue. I want to see what Travaris can do for this offense....seriously we won't win the Super Bowl anytime soon and I understand it's a goal every team should strive for but godammit when you are playing a 38 year old QB who's been on the sucking end for the past 3 games instead of your so call "future" QB then something is frickin wrong.

I'm sick to my stomach how poor our offense is....At this point I'd take any offense over ours in the league to score if my life depended on it.

VikingsTw
11-12-2006, 06:00 PM
"Purplemania" wrote:


I know what you're saying VTW but we got to get our rookies more playing time. I want to see more Ray Edwards and Greg Blue. I want to see what Travaris can do for this offense....seriously we won't win the Super Bowl anytime soon and I understand it's a goal every team should strive for but godammit when you are playing a 38 year old QB who's been on the sucking end for the past 3 games instead of your so call "future" QB then something is frickin wrong.

I'm sick to my stomach how poor our offense is....At this point I'd take any offense over ours in the league to score if my life depended on it.


Good point there, whats the deal with no Ray Edwards he's our pass rushing specailist, we been rushing four guys getting no pressure.

Purplemania
11-12-2006, 06:03 PM
I miss Erasmus =(

Udeze has been....soso. I thought he'd be more of a monster but where is the pass rush from him?

cajunvike
11-12-2006, 06:11 PM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Purplemania" wrote:


Agree with everyone.

I'm sick of Brad Johnson as he and this offense is too predictable. Just put in Travaris and see what the hell happens......if he sucks to the max more then Brad--GOOD, we know we'll need to get a QB next year as well.

Why the hell do we still stick with Brad is beyond my knowledge, are we playing for the future or are we trying to win the superbowl?


If its up to me i play to win now, not saying we would win the superbowl but how much longer is Tomlin gonna be around. Probably not long there goes our D cordinator who has brought alot to this team. You play for the present every year, why give up, get those young guys some experience. If Tavaris doesn't do that well, oh well he's got something to learn from for the upcoming years. You gotta keep your fans into to, this is a bad time, i don't if i've ever seen the dome so quiet.


It must've been miserable to have to be in the Dome with all those buttmunch Packer fans after the loss!
>:(

VikingsTw
11-12-2006, 06:31 PM
I didn't go to the game man, I saw all from my television. I did see all the packer fans though.

vikes09
11-12-2006, 06:33 PM
"Purplemania" wrote:


I miss Erasmus =(

Udeze has been....soso. I thought he'd be more of a monster but where is the pass rush from him?


udeze has played great considering james has been out. i wish erasmus was hear gol darnit!

snowinapril
11-12-2006, 06:47 PM
Change Has Happened

By SIA

What are you talking about, "change?"

We went off and started the season with the team playing TO free football for the most part.
The penalties were minimal but with some mistakes being made in performance.
But what was really happening was a slow change, a progression to more and more mistakes.

The Viking's QB, usually mistake free, has been making more TO.
This last game, it wasn't the INT problem, it was the fumble that was bound to happen with lack-luster line play up front. Brad only had the one TO which was an improvement from the last two weeks.
He has been feeling the pressure from the D and in the "please make a play" department.


The O-line hasn't changed, they have been average across the board.
They are sure to get a penalty at the worst possible time in every game.

The WRs actually got a little better today, but had been getting worse to this point IMHO.
Maybe this is an eye opener for TW!

The D is not allowed to make a mistake.
They are under tremendous pressure. The thing that has changed for them, is the number of key players that are injured*.
The other thing that has changed for them it the decrease in the TO.
We started out getting some nice TO that helped our O stay comfortable.

If these thing hadn't changed, we might still be slightly above average and in the hunt for the playoffs.
But at this time, we are just trying to get back to average.


Average won't make the playoffs and at this time, we are one notch below average, 4-5.
Now that needs to change!

THE CHANGE has happened, we went from AVG to below AVG just like that in the course of 3 weeks.

Please note, that I have left the coaches out of this convesation.
The players haven't made the plays.

*Key D injuries
Erasmus James (season)
Napo. Harris
D. Scott
F.Smoot (personal DNP)
C.Greenway (season)
Not to mention the guys that are nicked up.

VikingsTw
11-12-2006, 07:16 PM
I don't think we changed i think defenses changed us. 8, 9 guys in the box almost every play they don't fear us. Its 3rd and 9 and they have 9 guys in the box because we have no down field threat. Teams will continue to play within 20 yards of the line of scrimage, not worring about the deep ball because we can't convert. After one team finds your weakness they continue to copy what other teams do unless you make a change. The deep ball is very important in this game, it keeps the defense on there heals.

Those injuries you listed are all players on defense, and we are playing good on defense, definitly top half of the league. Offense is pretty much fully healthy and he can't do crap.

VikesfaninWis
11-12-2006, 07:18 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:


Change Has Happened

By SIA

What are you talking about, "change?"

We went off and started the season with the team playing TO free football for the most part.
The penalties were minimal but with some mistakes being made in performance.
But what was really happening was a slow change, a progression to more and more mistakes.

The Viking's QB, usually mistake free, has been making more TO.
This last game, it wasn't the INT problem, it was the fumble that was bound to happen with lack-luster line play up front. Brad only had the one TO which was an improvement from the last two weeks.
He has been feeling the pressure from the D and in the "please make a play" department.


The O-line hasn't changed, they have been average across the board.
They are sure to get a penalty at the worst possible time in every game.

The WRs actually got a little better today, but had been getting worse to this point IMHO.
Maybe this is an eye opener for TW!

The D is not allowed to make a mistake.
They are under tremendous pressure. The thing that has changed for them, is the number of key players that are injured*.
The other thing that has changed for them it the decrease in the TO.
We started out getting some nice TO that helped our O stay comfortable.

If these thing hadn't changed, we might still be slightly above average and in the hunt for the playoffs.
But at this time, we are just trying to get back to average.


Average won't make the playoffs and at this time, we are one notch below average, 4-5.
Now that needs to change!

THE CHANGE has happened, we went from AVG to below AVG just like that in the course of 3 weeks.

Please note, that I have left the coaches out of this convesation.
The players haven't made the plays.

*Key D injuries
Erasmus James (season)
Napo. Harris
D. Scott
F.Smoot (personal DNP)
C.Greenway (season)
Not to mention the guys that are nicked up.






I will agree with much of what is said here.. However, BJ had 2 costly to's in this game.. He had the lost fumble that ended up in a GB TD, and he had the pick late in the 4th that had he not thrown, we could have changed the outcome of the game.. BJ has been TO happy this season, and it is getting pathetic.. There is talk about him getting a pay raise, he should be lucky if he is still on the team next season..

There is something very wrong when you lose to San Fran, and GB in consecutive weeks to go under .500.. We are actually 3rd in the NFC North right now with having the same record as GB, and having lost 2 division games to GB's 1.. I agree with the creator of this thread in that there needs to be a change very soon..

I am throwing that whole "He is a rookie" crap out the window right now.. There have plenty of rookies that have come into the NFL and have made a difference right away.. If Tarvaris Jackson has this system down, and he is to be the future of this team, then let him play now.. What harm will it od? This season is basically over as we speak.. The Vikings can't do a dam thing against anyone.. We lost to SF, and GB in consecutive weeks, and both teams suck.. I am all for Tarvaris Jackson starting next week in Miami.. I don't want Bollinger starting for the simple reason that he is the same type of QB that Johnson is.. It is time for a well rounded QB in this system, and the time is NOW!!!!

Big C
11-12-2006, 07:43 PM
BJ's fumble was the O-Line not picking up a blitzer. He didn't even have time to turn.
The interception was Bethel's fault for not completing the route.

Prophet
11-12-2006, 07:47 PM
"Big" wrote:


BJ's fumble was the O-Line not picking up a blitzer. He didn't even have time to turn.
The interception was Bethel's fault for not completing the route.


Thankfully, the coaching staff is able to decipher what the causes of the problems were better than pissed off fans.
Just like last week, two blind-sided hits and a tipped ball for an INT.
Partly BJs fault, but not all on his shoulders.
People throwing out unsubtantiated BS and calling it fact gets old (i.e., play calling).
If you want to call something out at least do a minimal analysis of the situation instead of spouting of what you 'feel'.
We all do it sometimes, but guess what, what many think is happening and what is really happening are two different things.
The coaching staff, which has more experience coaching football than the majority of members have lived, is capable of doing just that, analyzing the film and doing what they think is best.
It is not based on off the cuff feelings.

audioghost
11-12-2006, 07:49 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"VikingsTw" wrote:


"Purplemania" wrote:


Agree with everyone.

I'm sick of Brad Johnson as he and this offense is too predictable. Just put in Travaris and see what the hell happens......if he sucks to the max more then Brad--GOOD, we know we'll need to get a QB next year as well.

Why the hell do we still stick with Brad is beyond my knowledge, are we playing for the future or are we trying to win the superbowl?


If its up to me i play to win now, not saying we would win the superbowl but how much longer is Tomlin gonna be around. Probably not long there goes our D cordinator who has brought alot to this team. You play for the present every year, why give up, get those young guys some experience. If Tavaris doesn't do that well, oh well he's got something to learn from for the upcoming years. You gotta keep your fans into to, this is a bad time, i don't if i've ever seen the dome so quiet.


It must've been miserable to have to be in the Dome with all those buttmunch Packer fans after the loss!
>:(


No Vikings fan should have to deal with that....something needs to be done

SharperVikings
11-12-2006, 07:50 PM
"Big" wrote:


BJ's fumble was the O-Line not picking up a blitzer. He didn't even have time to turn.
The interception was Bethel's fault for not completing the route.


I dont care whose fault it was!
We just lost to the slackers and the 49ers, BACK 2 BACK!!!
It's time for a f!!ckin change!

6-KINGS
11-12-2006, 08:21 PM
Well we had to TIVO the game today due a family Baptism.
Then I watched the game with my best friend, who is a Packer fan.
Kudos to the Pack, they got the job done, the Vikings did not.
As I read this thread I too have have come to realize that change is needed.
For all intents and purposes the '06 Vikes are done as far as a legit playoff contender. Kills me to say it, but IMO it is a fact.
Where to start?

Coaching: There is a real lack of game play and play calling understanding. We all know Taylor can run the ball. The key is when to call his number in the proper sequence to set up sustained drives that lead to points.
As a coach I understand that all coaches have a "formula" they feel leads to the best prospect for winning. The Viking Coaching staff misses the key to understanding how to adjust their "formula" to the game as it unfolds. The 2 challenges they called for were at best lame attempts at wishful thinking that it would halt the Packers as they drove down the field.

QB: Johnson at times seems lost and confused against even the most porous defensive teams. The Vikings can run the ball effectively, yet Brad chooses to hit check-down receivers who run routes that should be run to used to supplement a lack of a running game. For all who have called for T.Jackson to start, well now may be that time. An 8 game experience for the rookie on a team that no longer carries playoff ideas is a good place for him to begin. The talk of him being the "future QB" must be put into action on the field. The scheme now in place and run each week is well within his grasp.

LB: A glaring weakness here that can only be addressed in the off-season. But address it the Viking must. A complete lack of coverage skills combined with a consistent inability to read and pick the proper lanes for run stoppage and pass coverage have put a pressure on the DB's that cannot be continued in a successful football program.

Really all that awaits this team is an effort to salvage basic skills to be used next season. The hemorrhaging must be slowed down or the overall moral of this team will crumble at it's core and that will lead to a 2-5 year rebuilding plan that will make everything now seem like the good times.
I have spoken and written many times about this team being "special"
I was wrong.
They may be "special" but in a way that shows almost all is wrong and running the wrong direction.
On the PPO radio show Del spoke about being "scared" of the upcoming games and I just sloughed it off to being negative.
Well Del Rio is a friend of mine, and I owe him not only an apology for casting that label on him but for me not listening to him as a member/coach/football guru.
I really watched the trenches today. Did the slow motion/rewind study, and looked for what Del has been saying the problem is. And sure enough, it is there. Staring at me in all it's sad, glaring, below average play.
Well those are my thoughts at the 4-5 point of the season.
My only hope is that I am wrong again, like I was with Del's view of the Vikings.
6-KINGS

PurplePumpkin
11-13-2006, 11:05 AM
"6-KINGS" wrote:


Well we had to TIVO the game today due a family Baptism.
Then I watched the game with my best friend, who is a Packer fan.
Kudos to the Pack, they got the job done, the Vikings did not.
As I read this thread I too have have come to realize that change is needed.
For all intents and purposes the '06 Vikes are done as far as a legit playoff contender. Kills me to say it, but IMO it is a fact.
Where to start?

Coaching: There is a real lack of game play and play calling understanding. We all know Taylor can run the ball. The key is when to call his number in the proper sequence to set up sustained drives that lead to points.
As a coach I understand that all coaches have a "formula" they feel leads to the best prospect for winning. The Viking Coaching staff misses the key to understanding how to adjust their "formula" to the game as it unfolds. The 2 challenges they called for were at best lame attempts at wishful thinking that it would halt the Packers as they drove down the field.

QB: Johnson at times seems lost and confused against even the most porous defensive teams. The Vikings can run the ball effectively, yet Brad chooses to hit check-down receivers who run routes that should be run to used to supplement a lack of a running game. For all who have called for T.Jackson to start, well now may be that time. An 8 game experience for the rookie on a team that no longer carries playoff ideas is a good place for him to begin. The talk of him being the "future QB" must be put into action on the field. The scheme now in place and run each week is well within his grasp.

LB: A glaring weakness here that can only be addressed in the off-season. But address it the Viking must. A complete lack of coverage skills combined with a consistent inability to read and pick the proper lanes for run stoppage and pass coverage have put a pressure on the DB's that cannot be continued in a successful football program.

Really all that awaits this team is an effort to salvage basic skills to be used next season. The hemorrhaging must be slowed down or the overall moral of this team will crumble at it's core and that will lead to a 2-5 year rebuilding plan that will make everything now seem like the good times.
I have spoken and written many times about this team being "special"
I was wrong.
They may be "special" but in a way that shows almost all is wrong and running the wrong direction.
On the PPO radio show Del spoke about being "scared" of the upcoming games and I just sloughed it off to being negative.
Well Del Rio is a friend of mine, and I owe him not only an apology for casting that label on him but for me not listening to him as a member/coach/football guru.
I really watched the trenches today. Did the slow motion/rewind study, and looked for what Del has been saying the problem is. And sure enough, it is there. Staring at me in all it's sad, glaring, below average play.
Well those are my thoughts at the 4-5 point of the season.
My only hope is that I am wrong again, like I was with Del's view of the Vikings.
6-KINGS


I read this post yesterday by 6-KINGS
Its a Great post that I agree with.

BBQ Platypus
11-13-2006, 12:12 PM
"6-KINGS" wrote:


Well we had to TIVO the game today due a family Baptism.
Then I watched the game with my best friend, who is a Packer fan.
Kudos to the Pack, they got the job done, the Vikings did not.
As I read this thread I too have have come to realize that change is needed.
For all intents and purposes the '06 Vikes are done as far as a legit playoff contender. Kills me to say it, but IMO it is a fact.
Where to start?

Coaching: There is a real lack of game play and play calling understanding. We all know Taylor can run the ball. The key is when to call his number in the proper sequence to set up sustained drives that lead to points.
As a coach I understand that all coaches have a "formula" they feel leads to the best prospect for winning. The Viking Coaching staff misses the key to understanding how to adjust their "formula" to the game as it unfolds. The 2 challenges they called for were at best lame attempts at wishful thinking that it would halt the Packers as they drove down the field.

QB: Johnson at times seems lost and confused against even the most porous defensive teams. The Vikings can run the ball effectively, yet Brad chooses to hit check-down receivers who run routes that should be run to used to supplement a lack of a running game. For all who have called for T.Jackson to start, well now may be that time. An 8 game experience for the rookie on a team that no longer carries playoff ideas is a good place for him to begin. The talk of him being the "future QB" must be put into action on the field. The scheme now in place and run each week is well within his grasp.

LB: A glaring weakness here that can only be addressed in the off-season. But address it the Viking must. A complete lack of coverage skills combined with a consistent inability to read and pick the proper lanes for run stoppage and pass coverage have put a pressure on the DB's that cannot be continued in a successful football program.

Really all that awaits this team is an effort to salvage basic skills to be used next season. The hemorrhaging must be slowed down or the overall moral of this team will crumble at it's core and that will lead to a 2-5 year rebuilding plan that will make everything now seem like the good times.
I have spoken and written many times about this team being "special"
I was wrong.
They may be "special" but in a way that shows almost all is wrong and running the wrong direction.
On the PPO radio show Del spoke about being "scared" of the upcoming games and I just sloughed it off to being negative.
Well Del Rio is a friend of mine, and I owe him not only an apology for casting that label on him but for me not listening to him as a member/coach/football guru.
I really watched the trenches today. Did the slow motion/rewind study, and looked for what Del has been saying the problem is. And sure enough, it is there. Staring at me in all it's sad, glaring, below average play.
Well those are my thoughts at the 4-5 point of the season.
My only hope is that I am wrong again, like I was with Del's view of the Vikings.
6-KINGS


Good post, 6.
I seem to recall hearing something about creating a culture of accountability.
I think it's time that Childress started actually applying that doctrine and holding the team leaders accountable for how well they do their job - and neither the quarterback nor the playcaller(s) are doing their job.
It would prevent fingerpointing and build team confidence to know that Childress isn't afraid to place blame on himself and his QB.
Last year we learned the importance of leadership.
This year we need to find some.

Suick
11-13-2006, 12:25 PM
I put this loss mostly on the defense. Our run defense is top notch, but God forbid we rely on the swiss cheese secondary.(See NE game) . They got toasted all game. For a long time we make average QB's into pro bowlers. Farve was getting way too much time also. We recorded ZERO sacks yesterday.

The O-line run blocks well, but pass protection sucks. Marcus Johnson is a cone out there for the D-linemen to run around.

cajunvike
11-13-2006, 12:32 PM
"6-KINGS" wrote:


Well we had to TIVO the game today due a family Baptism.
Then I watched the game with my best friend, who is a Packer fan.
Kudos to the Pack, they got the job done, the Vikings did not.
As I read this thread I too have have come to realize that change is needed.
For all intents and purposes the '06 Vikes are done as far as a legit playoff contender. Kills me to say it, but IMO it is a fact.
Where to start?

Coaching: There is a real lack of game play and play calling understanding. We all know Taylor can run the ball. The key is when to call his number in the proper sequence to set up sustained drives that lead to points.
As a coach I understand that all coaches have a "formula" they feel leads to the best prospect for winning. The Viking Coaching staff misses the key to understanding how to adjust their "formula" to the game as it unfolds. The 2 challenges they called for were at best lame attempts at wishful thinking that it would halt the Packers as they drove down the field.

QB: Johnson at times seems lost and confused against even the most porous defensive teams. The Vikings can run the ball effectively, yet Brad chooses to hit check-down receivers who run routes that should be run to used to supplement a lack of a running game. For all who have called for T.Jackson to start, well now may be that time. An 8 game experience for the rookie on a team that no longer carries playoff ideas is a good place for him to begin. The talk of him being the "future QB" must be put into action on the field. The scheme now in place and run each week is well within his grasp.

LB: A glaring weakness here that can only be addressed in the off-season. But address it the Viking must. A complete lack of coverage skills combined with a consistent inability to read and pick the proper lanes for run stoppage and pass coverage have put a pressure on the DB's that cannot be continued in a successful football program.

Really all that awaits this team is an effort to salvage basic skills to be used next season. The hemorrhaging must be slowed down or the overall moral of this team will crumble at it's core and that will lead to a 2-5 year rebuilding plan that will make everything now seem like the good times.
I have spoken and written many times about this team being "special"
I was wrong.
They may be "special" but in a way that shows almost all is wrong and running the wrong direction.
On the PPO radio show Del spoke about being "scared" of the upcoming games and I just sloughed it off to being negative.
Well Del Rio is a friend of mine, and I owe him not only an apology for casting that label on him but for me not listening to him as a member/coach/football guru.
I really watched the trenches today. Did the slow motion/rewind study, and looked for what Del has been saying the problem is. And sure enough, it is there. Staring at me in all it's sad, glaring, below average play.
Well those are my thoughts at the 4-5 point of the season.
My only hope is that I am wrong again, like I was with Del's view of the Vikings.
6-KINGS


Good analysis...and I hope that you are WRONG too (like you usually are... :D)

BUT if you are right, then we should throw Tarvaris in now and give him his own BAPTISM...by fire!

Del Rio
11-13-2006, 12:59 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"6-KINGS" wrote:


Well we had to TIVO the game today due a family Baptism.
Then I watched the game with my best friend, who is a Packer fan.
Kudos to the Pack, they got the job done, the Vikings did not.
As I read this thread I too have have come to realize that change is needed.
For all intents and purposes the '06 Vikes are done as far as a legit playoff contender. Kills me to say it, but IMO it is a fact.
Where to start?

Coaching: There is a real lack of game play and play calling understanding. We all know Taylor can run the ball. The key is when to call his number in the proper sequence to set up sustained drives that lead to points.
As a coach I understand that all coaches have a "formula" they feel leads to the best prospect for winning. The Viking Coaching staff misses the key to understanding how to adjust their "formula" to the game as it unfolds. The 2 challenges they called for were at best lame attempts at wishful thinking that it would halt the Packers as they drove down the field.

QB: Johnson at times seems lost and confused against even the most porous defensive teams. The Vikings can run the ball effectively, yet Brad chooses to hit check-down receivers who run routes that should be run to used to supplement a lack of a running game. For all who have called for T.Jackson to start, well now may be that time. An 8 game experience for the rookie on a team that no longer carries playoff ideas is a good place for him to begin. The talk of him being the "future QB" must be put into action on the field. The scheme now in place and run each week is well within his grasp.

LB: A glaring weakness here that can only be addressed in the off-season. But address it the Viking must. A complete lack of coverage skills combined with a consistent inability to read and pick the proper lanes for run stoppage and pass coverage have put a pressure on the DB's that cannot be continued in a successful football program.

Really all that awaits this team is an effort to salvage basic skills to be used next season. The hemorrhaging must be slowed down or the overall moral of this team will crumble at it's core and that will lead to a 2-5 year rebuilding plan that will make everything now seem like the good times.
I have spoken and written many times about this team being "special"
I was wrong.
They may be "special" but in a way that shows almost all is wrong and running the wrong direction.
On the PPO radio show Del spoke about being "scared" of the upcoming games and I just sloughed it off to being negative.
Well Del Rio is a friend of mine, and I owe him not only an apology for casting that label on him but for me not listening to him as a member/coach/football guru.
I really watched the trenches today. Did the slow motion/rewind study, and looked for what Del has been saying the problem is. And sure enough, it is there. Staring at me in all it's sad, glaring, below average play.
Well those are my thoughts at the 4-5 point of the season.
My only hope is that I am wrong again, like I was with Del's view of the Vikings.
6-KINGS


Good analysis...and I hope that you are WRONG too (like you usually are... :D)

BUT if you are right, then we should throw Tarvaris in now and give him his own BAPTISM...by fire!


I think he is still not 100% from an article last week it said it will take his knee all season to get to 100% we may just need to put some faith in Bollinger I guess.

Ltrey33
11-13-2006, 01:09 PM
After getting almost 24 hours to think about it, I really think yesterday was afwul. I mean, yesterday I was pissed, but today I am just flat disappointed.

Yesterday highlighted the ineptitude of our offensive play. Our quarterback, our wide receivers and our o-lineman all had terrible games, and we couldn't come through when we needed to against teh 32nd ranked pass defense in the league.

bleedpurple
11-13-2006, 01:12 PM
hey what's up everybody.
It's been about a year since I posted but do to our recent struggles, i can't hold it anymore.

Is it me, or did anybody see our offensive struggles from the year before.
IF you remember back, we went 7-2 and everybody deemed BJ the savior.
C'mon really, if you watched the games, we won those games on special teams and an opportunistic defense.
The offense wasn't scoring in bunches. And the problems are even more evident now that we're loosing.
From the last nine games, to the first nine this year, it's that same ole anemic offense.


We should have signed brian greese to back up BJ...

What's the deal with Coach Childress not using Mewelde Moore more often?
He breaks a hell of a lot more tackles than Chester Taylor does.
Why doesn't he mix it up a little and utilize moore for his breaking tackles and big play ability!
I don't understand it.

Our offensive line is not very good at all....

Can BJ call audibles?
It seems like he doesn't check out of runs even when the defense has 8 in the box... HMMM?

What's up with BC's play calling... it's horrendous.. Once we get into the red zone, the play calling completely changes, and it seems like he's happy with field goals instead of scoring touchdowns...

Please note the lack of balls thrown in the endzone once we get inside the 20.

I know I'm not a coach or former football player, but I love football and watch it 24-7.


This stuff seems very basic!!!

Slade
11-13-2006, 01:23 PM
3 things that killed us:

- Pinner with the push from behind to take back Johnsons KR for a TD
- Donald Driver tore us apart.
- Got no pressure on Favre.

vikermike
11-13-2006, 03:06 PM
"Slade" wrote:


3 things that killed us:

- Pinner with the push from behind to take back Johnsons KR for a TD
- Donald Driver tore us apart.
- Got no pressure on Favre.


MUCH MUCH more than QB play or play calling two things are killing this team--

--the total lack of pressure on the QB. When the PACK with two rookie linemen and a 2nd string can give Favre all day we are in trouble. Bring in some new blood at end more often. While everyone is quick to laud the D...where are the turnovers that come from pressure?
--inconsistent play on the O line. For the $ involved, they are way underachieving. Run blocking is hit and miss and PLEASE, by week 9 they should have the ability to pick up a blitz once and awhile. I agree with dropping the dink and dunk, but I don't want to throw it downfield more. Instead I want to see three yards and a cloud of dust, 1st, 2nd and 3rd down. This line would benefit and perhaps this team could get an identity on O.

x-ray jeff
11-13-2006, 03:15 PM
Time for change.
They've been ashore long enough. Very little pillage and only four plunders. Time to" burn the boats and never look back".

JDogg926
11-13-2006, 03:32 PM
I know in the days of Moss, Carter, etc.
I loved the 40 yard pass plays on 2nd and 1, but the play before the INT yesterday, after Chester's 9 yard run on first, I was thinking, sweet, now give it to him again, let him pick up another 4 or 5 yards, we'll have first down again, and just keep moving.
It's clear there's a lot wrong with this team, but playcalling is an issue when you're calling plays that don't work for the personnel you have on the field.
Coaches are supposed to put the players in the best position to succeed, which you can argue a big problem is execution, but that wasn't the smartest play call for that point in the game.

Del Rio
11-13-2006, 03:42 PM
It's easy for a fan to say what is a good play call and what is not a good play call. They see the play and see the result. If it works it must have been good, if it doesn't then it must have been bad. It doesn't work that way.

I would really hate to think Childress and Co watch hours upon hours of opponent film, see the sets they run see tendencies, see openings, and then ignore those things during the game in order to call a bad play.

The fact that we have virtually been in every game we have played weather it be a loss by one score or a win by one score is evidence enough to me that the plays are fine. When they run those plays well we win like we did in Seattle and when they run those plays poorly we lose like we did to NE.

Being within 1 score is enough to say without one of those 3 STUPID penalties, without one of those turnovers, without one of those drops we COULD HAVE won. If your team is getting totally destroyed every game then yeah the plays may need a look, but that is not the case, and our defense cannot claim credit for everything. The defense has serious flaws especially in coverage.

Slade
11-13-2006, 03:54 PM
"Del" wrote:


It's easy for a fan to say what is a good play call and what is not a good play call. They see the play and see the result. If it works it must have been good, if it doesn't then it must have been bad. It doesn't work that way.

I would really hate to think Childress and Co watch hours upon hours of opponent film, see the sets they run see tendencies, see openings, and then ignore those things during the game in order to call a bad play.

The fact that we have virtually been in every game we have played weather it be a loss by one score or a win by one score is evidence enough to me that the plays are fine. When they run those plays well we win like we did in Seattle and when they run those plays poorly we lose like we did to NE.

Being within 1 score is enough to say without one of those 3 STUPID penalties, without one of those turnovers, without one of those drops we COULD HAVE won. If your team is getting totally destroyed every game then yeah the plays may need a look, but that is not the case, and our defense cannot claim credit for everything. The defense has serious flaws especially in coverage.




I agree, the 2ndary is giving up some huge plays. Brady shredded us, Favre carved us up, we even made Alex Smith look decent. I am worried about this game vs. Miami. The 'Fins D is pretty dang good, and if we thought scoring was a problem before, we may get blanked in this game. For us to win, we would need Harrington to toss a few INT's and capitalize on the mistakes. We match up with Miami pretty evenly except for WR's.

Del Rio
11-13-2006, 03:58 PM
"Slade" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


It's easy for a fan to say what is a good play call and what is not a good play call. They see the play and see the result. If it works it must have been good, if it doesn't then it must have been bad. It doesn't work that way.

I would really hate to think Childress and Co watch hours upon hours of opponent film, see the sets they run see tendencies, see openings, and then ignore those things during the game in order to call a bad play.

The fact that we have virtually been in every game we have played weather it be a loss by one score or a win by one score is evidence enough to me that the plays are fine. When they run those plays well we win like we did in Seattle and when they run those plays poorly we lose like we did to NE.

Being within 1 score is enough to say without one of those 3 STUPID penalties, without one of those turnovers, without one of those drops we COULD HAVE won. If your team is getting totally destroyed every game then yeah the plays may need a look, but that is not the case, and our defense cannot claim credit for everything. The defense has serious flaws especially in coverage.




I agree, the 2ndary is giving up some huge plays. Brady shredded us, Favre carved us up, we even made Alex Smith look decent. I am worried about this game vs. Miami. The 'Fins D is pretty dang good, and if we thought scoring was a problem before, we may get blanked in this game. For us to win, we would need Harrington to toss a few INT's and capitalize on the mistakes. We match up with Miami pretty evenly except for WR's.


The Dolphins have one of the best DE in the entire game, he is small and extreemly fast, he has a huge wingspan and I do not see any way we win this game. Not with Brad in there and with the way we have been playing lately.

I agree we need a short field created by the D. I can't see our offense moving the ball on the Dolphins at all. If they do it should not be chaulked up to us beating a bad team it should be considered the first step to turning this ship around. That is a team that has great players that fit into exactly what we struggle with. If we win it will be a big accomplishment in terms of improvement.

Slade
11-13-2006, 04:03 PM
"Del" wrote:


"Slade" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


It's easy for a fan to say what is a good play call and what is not a good play call. They see the play and see the result. If it works it must have been good, if it doesn't then it must have been bad. It doesn't work that way.

I would really hate to think Childress and Co watch hours upon hours of opponent film, see the sets they run see tendencies, see openings, and then ignore those things during the game in order to call a bad play.

The fact that we have virtually been in every game we have played weather it be a loss by one score or a win by one score is evidence enough to me that the plays are fine. When they run those plays well we win like we did in Seattle and when they run those plays poorly we lose like we did to NE.

Being within 1 score is enough to say without one of those 3 STUPID penalties, without one of those turnovers, without one of those drops we COULD HAVE won. If your team is getting totally destroyed every game then yeah the plays may need a look, but that is not the case, and our defense cannot claim credit for everything. The defense has serious flaws especially in coverage.




I agree, the 2ndary is giving up some huge plays. Brady shredded us, Favre carved us up, we even made Alex Smith look decent. I am worried about this game vs. Miami. The 'Fins D is pretty dang good, and if we thought scoring was a problem before, we may get blanked in this game. For us to win, we would need Harrington to toss a few INT's and capitalize on the mistakes. We match up with Miami pretty evenly except for WR's.


The Dolphins have one of the best DE in the entire game, he is small and extreemly fast, he has a huge wingspan and I do not see any way we win this game. Not with Brad in there and with the way we have been playing lately.

I agree we need a short field created by the D. I can't see our offense moving the ball on the Dolphins at all. If they do it should not be chaulked up to us beating a bad team it should be considered the first step to turning this ship around. That is a team that has great players that fit into exactly what we struggle with. If we win it will be a big accomplishment in terms of improvement.


- Yeah, the 'Fins beat the Bears (Convincingly), beat a hot Chiefs team & Jason Taylor is gonna be in BJ's personal space all day long. This does not look Del, not good at all.

JDogg926
11-13-2006, 04:14 PM
"Del" wrote:


It's easy for a fan to say what is a good play call and what is not a good play call. They see the play and see the result. If it works it must have been good, if it doesn't then it must have been bad. It doesn't work that way.

I would really hate to think Childress and Co watch hours upon hours of opponent film, see the sets they run see tendencies, see openings, and then ignore those things during the game in order to call a bad play.

The fact that we have virtually been in every game we have played weather it be a loss by one score or a win by one score is evidence enough to me that the plays are fine. When they run those plays well we win like we did in Seattle and when they run those plays poorly we lose like we did to NE.

Being within 1 score is enough to say without one of those 3 STUPID penalties, without one of those turnovers, without one of those drops we COULD HAVE won. If your team is getting totally destroyed every game then yeah the plays may need a look, but that is not the case, and our defense cannot claim credit for everything. The defense has serious flaws especially in coverage.




Del, I agree with the fact that they watch film and they see tendencies, etc, etc, etc, which maybe they saw something that GB was doing on 2nd and short, or saw something on film, where the safeties were cheating up, or something.
Even so, in that position, given the way our long pass game has worked thus far this year, and needing simply one yard to keep alive the potential game winning drive, to call the long pass play, especially given the protection problems all day, was not the brightest move.


Yes, we are a very flawed team, we can't seem to stop any decent team from passing on us all day, and our receivers all have questionable hands, some very stupid penalties, and our pass protection has been horrible.
So, no the coaches didn't call a bad game overall (I mean we were in the game up until the end of the 4th quarter), but that's one call I bet they'd like to have back.
I'm simply pointing out one play, in a critical situation, in which we should have ran the ball.
I also think it's not the fact that we're over-conservative, it's just that we're conservative at the wrong times, and we gamble at the wrong times.
For instance, against NE, the offensive series in which we had first and goal.
With out O-line, and against a team as good as New England, who already has a lead, we should be trying to run it down their throats, establishing the line of scrimmage, and setting the precedence for the rest of the game.
But, we decided to ignore the fact that we have a monster O-line built for just that, and try a pass, which we know how that turned out.


I'm not trying to be negative or overly-critical, I'm just extremely frustrated, and I'm pointing out some things that do need corrected if we are going to improve upon the 4-5 record we currently own.
Something I'd like to see just as much as anyone.

Del Rio
11-13-2006, 04:22 PM
"JDogg926" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


It's easy for a fan to say what is a good play call and what is not a good play call. They see the play and see the result. If it works it must have been good, if it doesn't then it must have been bad. It doesn't work that way.

I would really hate to think Childress and Co watch hours upon hours of opponent film, see the sets they run see tendencies, see openings, and then ignore those things during the game in order to call a bad play.

The fact that we have virtually been in every game we have played weather it be a loss by one score or a win by one score is evidence enough to me that the plays are fine. When they run those plays well we win like we did in Seattle and when they run those plays poorly we lose like we did to NE.

Being within 1 score is enough to say without one of those 3 STUPID penalties, without one of those turnovers, without one of those drops we COULD HAVE won. If your team is getting totally destroyed every game then yeah the plays may need a look, but that is not the case, and our defense cannot claim credit for everything. The defense has serious flaws especially in coverage.




Del, I agree with the fact that they watch film and they see tendencies, etc, etc, etc, which maybe they saw something that GB was doing on 2nd and short, or saw something on film, where the safeties were cheating up, or something.
Even so, in that position, given the way our long pass game has worked thus far this year, and needing simply one yard to keep alive the potential game winning drive, to call the long pass play, especially given the protection problems all day, was not the brightest move.


Yes, we are a very flawed team, we can't seem to stop any decent team from passing on us all day, and our receivers all have questionable hands, some very stupid penalties, and our pass protection has been horrible.
So, no the coaches didn't call a bad game overall (I mean we were in the game up until the end of the 4th quarter), but that's one call I bet they'd like to have back.
I'm simply pointing out one play, in a critical situation, in which we should have ran the ball.
I also think it's not the fact that we're over-conservative, it's just that we're conservative at the wrong times, and we gamble at the wrong times.
For instance, against NE, the offensive series in which we had first and goal.
With out O-line, and against a team as good as New England, who already has a lead, we should be trying to run it down their throats, establishing the line of scrimmage, and setting the precedence for the rest of the game.
But, we decided to ignore the fact that we have a monster O-line built for just that, and try a pass, which we know how that turned out.


I'm not trying to be negative or overly-critical, I'm just extremely frustrated, and I'm pointing out some things that do need corrected if we are going to improve upon the 4-5 record we currently own.
Something I'd like to see just as much as anyone.



I'm not targeting you specifically, and everyone is entitled to their opinions no doubt. It is easy to say what is good and what is bad after you see the result. That 2nd and short goes for 30 we aren't having this conversation.

Yet we run the ball on 2nd and 1 and get stopped and then run on 3rd and 2 and get stopped Childress will be labeled predictable and a horrible play caller.

JellyBean2144
11-13-2006, 08:15 PM
Next game will be the key. If Brad struggles, we have to pull him and get some new life in there.

VikingsTw
11-14-2006, 02:15 AM
"JellyBean2144" wrote:


Next game will be the key. If Brad struggles, we have to pull him and get some new life in there.


I differ, if u think about it we gotta go 6-1 to finish this thing off and get in the tournament. Last year we did it to late with culpepper and it took an injury. After that brad went 7-2 or something, good redord but not good enough. It's tavris this week or i throw in the towl for the season. No playoffs again.

midgensa
11-14-2006, 04:19 AM
"VikingsTw" wrote:


"JellyBean2144" wrote:


Next game will be the key. If Brad struggles, we have to pull him and get some new life in there.


I differ, if u think about it we gotta go 6-1 to finish this thing off and get in the tournament. Last year we did it to late with culpepper and it took an injury. After that brad went 7-2 or something, good redord but not good enough. It's tavris this week or i throw in the towl for the season. No playoffs again.


First off ... why even bother calling it a tournament? It is clearly the Playoffs in the NFL ... just stick with that.
Second ... if you think that six teams are going to win 10 games in the NFC I would like to see what schedules you are looking at. I mean sure if someone gets hot like the Skins last year it might be needed ... but 9-7 could be good enough to get one ... or two teams in.
I don't think that 6-1 or 5-2 is completely out of the equation with Brad or T-Jack at the helm, but I don't think the SUPER BOWL IS AT ALL POSSIBLE WITH BJ ... probably not with T-Jack either, but if we are not going to the Bowl we ARE PLAYING FOR NEXT YEAR, no matter if we start in the second half of a blowout playoff loss in the wildcard round or if we start now ... so go with the kid and see what happens ... the best is better than what BJ offers and the worst is exactly the same ... no Super Bowl.

digital420
11-14-2006, 05:37 AM
There is def something wrong.

be it that we are just inches away from being a concrete team, or be it we are miles away from producing a playoff team.

Our D is standing tall. they are giving up some plays, and giving up some points but not to the tune we have been for years now. 2 teams have put up more then 20 points. we are being kept in games by stopping the run, and forcing teams to air it on us.
we are making teams 1 demionsal.. thing is we arn't always stopping it. though we do. they had a few 3 - outs. we stopped them from a few sure fire TD chances.

in the end. it was 2 BIG penelties that stuck us. 2 mistakes that cost us
7 points and possesion. M.m almost gave up a saftey by not catching first and moving second. if it was a saftey.. would everyone still be yelling for M.m to play more? Our backfield is there in the games. and are getting more receiving work then our receivers. why?

are they not getting open? does Brad not read every play like he used to?
and what was with that int? BethalJ was streeking.. stopped.. then starteed again? that's not brad's fault, but WTF??? switch sides with him and Twill if twill is being hawked by the GB secondary. go short routes.. keep to the run. i'm sure we'd of not had so many quick outs had we run a bit more, a few slant passes.. when's the last time u saw us run a screen?

is this cause we are getting 2 much preasure? Brad has more turnovers then i think he has TD's!!


in all of this.. what do we need to change.

i'm like to see this.

1. Keep the running game. it's getting more and more attention and we are still producing here.

2. Change up receiver sets.. know brad's limitations and work inside them. try to get the TE's more involved, we've seen we are not the 1 hit TD team.

3. start adding different routes.. we NEED to get our wr's open quick. if the O line is being beat we need the ball to go out fast.

4. Work on gelling the O line. they are doing well 80% of the game. but are letting in those coverage sacks. now is this the fault of the O line?
I remember when we had 4 and 1.. we went for it and the O line literaly pushed the D line back 2 yards.. C.t met the D line past the first down marker. why can't we manage like this?

5. WTF penelties.. they are focusing on us.. understand that and keep out of those situations.

6.ok i won't rant on the play calling, but maybe a revamp on how series are strung 2gether, and how we are using them in the middle - late part of the game.

my 2 cents.

DiGiTaL

Purple Floyd
11-14-2006, 08:14 AM
"JellyBean2144" wrote:


Next game will be the key. If Brad struggles, we have to pull him and get some new life in there.



Johnson or Childress? ;D


Maybe Childress needs to reassign some of the position coaches to see if anybody else can show a receiver how to create separation from a DB and hold on to the friggen ball and explain to some certain linemen that the object of the game is for them to try to prevent the defense from getting to the QB,not let them by and then turn around to watch them hit the QB.