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vikings11_27
11-06-2006, 09:38 AM
Put in tarvaris jackson and see if we have a QB of the future. And then draft this guy. I know its early, but Brad Johnson sucks







CALVIN JOHNSON
Position: WR Number: 21
School: Georgia Tech Height: 6'4
Status: Junior Weight: 225


This is a player at the wide receiver position that has all the dominating skills to truly make him a game breaker and impact player
He is an imposing sized specimen on the field to opposing defenders, and his presence on the field is noticed quickly
His size, speed, quickness, strength and leaping ability is a combination you rarely see in one player on any level, who posses excellent body control while in the air and one who positions himself well like a basketball player by blocking out his opponent for the reception
When going up for a reception he attacks the ball at it's highest point so only he can come down with it, and with his combination of size and strength few defenders can stop him for a catch
He has a soft pair of hands and has the trait of catching balls away from his body with his hands that most of your top flight receivers tend to do, and he has excellent concentration and adjustment to the ball as it is in the air
He also has the top end speed to take it the distance as well, and to top it all off he has the intensity and will to win to be a top flight blocker as well from the plays I could see
The one thing I notice he may need to work on is that he is only a sophomore, and only lack inexperience which may save a defensive back or two!

cajunvike
11-06-2006, 09:41 AM
This guy will NOT still be on the board when we pick!
But I guess you can dream.

MississippiViking
11-06-2006, 09:47 AM
For the first time I agree to put in Another quarterback.
Tarvaris or Brook.
This offense has not scored hardly at all.
We have 130 points this year and I believe 35 of those came on Defense and special teams.
That is under 12 points a game.
What a waste of a good defense!!
I also think T Will needs to be benched for a game or two.

NodakPaul
11-06-2006, 09:52 AM
I agree that we need to do something at QB... but we don't exactly have a lot of options.
TJ is not ready.
I have said it a hundred times and I will say it again.
We will do more harm than good to him as a young QB if we put him in now.


That leaves us with BJ or Brooks.
Kinda like trying to pick the least smelly turd.
BJ has been outstanding for a long, long time.
But after two games with multiple INTs, and only scoring 3 points against the worst defense in the league, he is starting to lose my support.
Another loss to one of the "easy" teams and we won't mke the playoffs.


At this point I also worry about what will happen if we do get to the playoffs.
I don't want a first round butt-kicking, and if we can't figure out a way to get points on the board, that's exactly what will happen.

Mr. Purple
11-06-2006, 09:56 AM
We'd have to get top 10, maybe even top 5.Which ISNT impossible after yesterday, but I think he'll be gone rather quickly.Its like Randy Moss being able to be drafted again, how many teams would pass on him now adays?

davike
11-06-2006, 10:07 AM
"MississippiViking" wrote:


For the first time I agree to put in Another quarterback.
Tarvaris or Brook.
This offense has not scored hardly at all.
We have 130 points this year and I believe 35 of those came on Defense and special teams.
That is under 12 points a game.
What a waste of a good defense!!
I also think T Will needs to be benched for a game or two.


umm what for....so bollinger can prove why he has been a back up all his career? i haven't been impressed with BJs preformance the past couple weeks, but he is our best option. tavaris is simply not ready to start. i don't want to hear about the whole BJ doesn't go deep thing, if you watch him closely, alot of plays he does want to go deep. in his place would you go deep....first of all most of the times he does go deep his receivers drop the perfectly thrown ball(the bethel johnson throw wasn't perfect but bethel should have caught it) and second after last week he was desperate not to make any mistakes, and i really can't blame him. another 2 pick game for him and he may have seen the bench....and that would not be good for the team. yeah BJ has made mistakes amnd there might be a QB
that could be better for this team...but he is our best possibility for winning right now. you want a better offense....get our WR to stop dropping balls and also take away some key penalties and we would be 5-3 right now, despite the drops.

NodakPaul
11-06-2006, 10:09 AM
I think it is too early to start talking about the draft and who we should be aiming to get. I really don't think we will be in the top 10 anyway, and there is no way we will be a top 5.

JDogg926
11-06-2006, 10:17 AM
The only way I can say we should put another QB is if this week goes similar to the last 2.
I think it's possible that a lot of guys were overconfident and looking forward to Green Bay this week.
Just kind of taking a win against San Fran for granted.
If we don't beat Green Bay this week, and hopefully at least have our offense score a TD or two, then I'd say what the hell, maybe a change at QB will do something.
I still think Brad is our best option, but maybe TJ's youthfulness would bring some sort of spark to our offense.
Hopefully, though, Brad gets back on track this week, throws for 250 yards and two TD's and doesn't turn the ball over, as we coast to a 27 - 10 victory over the Fudgepackers.

PAvikesfan
11-06-2006, 10:21 AM
8 out 10 top picks are a huge bust inb the draft...
i don't care about the draft right now.
our offense is stale and it is not BJ's fault (some of the INT's obviously are his fault but...).
the offense starts with the coaching the stradegy.
our stradegy works as long as we keep converting for first downs...
howver, the way it is set up with mini dump passes on third downs when you need 8-12 yards, we are fighting losing not fighting winning.

NodakPaul
11-06-2006, 10:28 AM
"JDogg926" wrote:


The only way I can say we should put another QB is if this week goes similar to the last 2.
I think it's possible that a lot of guys were overconfident and looking forward to Green Bay this week.
Just kind of taking a win against San Fran for granted.
If we don't beat Green Bay this week, and hopefully at least have our offense score a TD or two, then I'd say what the hell, maybe a change at QB will do something.
I still think Brad is our best option, but maybe TJ's youthfulness would bring some sort of spark to our offense.
Hopefully, though, Brad gets back on track this week, throws for 250 yards and two TD's and doesn't turn the ball over, as we coast to a 27 - 10 victory over the Fudgepackers.


But that is the problem.
TJ's youthfulness won't even come into play because he wouldn't be the one replacing BJ.
Nor should he be (see above post).
If we bench Brad, than Brooks will be
starting.

I agree that BJ should be the started against Green Bay.
But he's on his last strike...
He has only thrown two TDs in the past 16 quarters...

Ltrey33
11-06-2006, 10:32 AM
"cajunvike" wrote:


This guy will NOT still be on the board when we pick!
But I guess you can dream.


Exactly. Getting Calvin Johnson is a pipe dream.

OnlyVikes
11-06-2006, 10:34 AM
I do think that Tarvaris should get the start. Why?

In BJ you have a QB that opposing defenses KNOW doesn't move very well, sits in the pocket, and is slow to make decisions or makes them a hair too late.

If we start Tarvaris it gives us that added threat that Daunte had(of running that is, please forget the bad memories haha :'(). The way defenses are playing us now, linebackers don't even NEED to keep an eye out for the QB running, just dumping it off. With Tarvaris starting I do think that it would give us that added dimension that we are obviously missing.

NOTE:I'm not saying he'll be like Michael Vick(and don't want him to be) but anything is better than a
Bledsoe-esque QB sitting back there ::).

Just my .02 :)

cajunvike
11-06-2006, 10:39 AM
It DID work for Dallass...of course, Romo HAS had a few years to absorb the system!

That being said, I highly doubt that Childress will do it....we will just have to wait for next season and hope that TJack soaks enough of it in to surpass Brad...otherwise BJ is our QB for another season...like it or not.

cajunvike
11-06-2006, 10:39 AM
"Ltrey33" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


This guy will NOT still be on the board when we pick!
But I guess you can dream.


Exactly. Getting Calvin Johnson is a pipe dream.


A CRACK pipe dream!
8)

cajunvike
11-06-2006, 10:42 AM
MY pick at WR two drafts from now:
Early Doucet of LSU...he already looks good in Purple and Gold, he scored the game winner with :07 left on the clock against Tennessee on Saturday...and he's from my home town! ;D

marcosMN
11-06-2006, 10:42 AM
I really think you guys are aiming your criticism at the wrong Brad...

How come B.J. gets all the blame, when the one calling the shots is B.C.?

All you T-Jackers... Maybe instead of ditching B-rad for T-Jax, we should ditch B.C. and let Tomlin take this team over...

EDIT: I don't really think we should fire B.C., I was just making a point.

davike
11-06-2006, 10:48 AM
"OnlyVikes" wrote:


I do think that Tarvaris should get the start. Why?

In BJ you have a QB that opposing defenses KNOW doesn't move very well, sits in the pocket, and is slow to make decisions or makes them a hair too late.

If we start Tarvaris it gives us that added threat that Daunte had(of running that is, please forget the bad memories haha :'(). The way defenses are playing us now, linebackers don't even NEED to keep an eye out for the QB running, just dumping it off. With Tarvaris starting I do think that it would give us that added dimension that we are obviously missing.

NOTE:I'm not saying he'll be like Michael Vick(and don't want him to be) but anything is better than a
Bledsoe-esque QB sitting back there ::).

Just my .02 :)


well first of all...like nodak said, it wouldn't be tavaris that would be playing if BJ was benched, it would be bollinger. and also BJ is one of the best if not the best decision makers playing QB today, but everyone makes mistakes, even the ppl that seem invincible like peyton manning. speaking of peyton manning....i wouldn't say that the LBs have to worry about him running much either, but he is only the best QB in the nfl leading the only undefeated team in the nfl right now, im not comparing BJ to peyton. but im saying that a team doesn't need a scrambling QB to be successful. the problem with us now is not BJ its our WR catching balls and penalties and few other things. im not saying that its not at all BJs fault, but alot of ppl are putting way to much blame on BJ. there is other QBs in the league that are very successful leading successfull teams that are not scramblers. down to the point. A SCRAMBLING QB IS ONLY A BONUS, IT IS NOT THE KEY TO WINNING GAMES.
yes it does keep the defenses on their toes but you don't build a offense around the running of your QB, unless you have vick.

bobbybryant101
11-06-2006, 11:05 AM
The future is now. It's safe to say we're going nowhere with Brad, I respect the guy but with zero td's in the past 8-10 qtrs he must sit, case closed. What's the alternative? The last I looked there were two guys on the bench, Bollinger & Jackson.
I keep hearing Tarvaris isn't ready, the comment defies logic, we won't know until he takes a few snaps, could be he lights it up, in the least it's worth a shot. Bollinger? His mop up role vs. The Patriots is no measure, he needs a weeks worth of reps, then a chance. All I'm saying is this offense, with Brad and Troy playing miserably, is going nowhere fast. It's ignorant not to at least give another guy a shot. I'm a big Childress fan, I just wish he weren't so damn stubborn.

Prophet
11-06-2006, 11:14 AM
The cumulative years of coaching experience of our coaching staff is greater than the number of years most of you have been alive.
It Tarvaris Jackson was ready he would be playing.
It you can't handle that reality then stick to the video games.

tb04512
11-06-2006, 11:16 AM
"Acumen" wrote:


The cumulative years of coaching experience of our coaching staff is greater than the number of years most of you have been alive.
It Tarvaris Jackson was ready he would be playing.
It you can't handle that reality then stick to the video games.


but at least in the video game we win... hahaha, maybe he is still nursing the injury but i think this offense really needs a mobile qb

Marrdro
11-06-2006, 11:21 AM
"Ltrey33" wrote:


"cajunvike" wrote:


This guy will NOT still be on the board when we pick!
But I guess you can dream.


Exactly. Getting Calvin Johnson is a pipe dream.


Not if we keep playing offense like we have been playing.
My worst nightmare is that we finish below Green Bay.
We should have gained a game yesterday when the Bears lost.

I agree, it is too soon to be looking at the draft.
Lets hope the coaching staff can get a game plan that will be successfull against Green Bay.

Prophet
11-06-2006, 11:22 AM
The Vikes need to do something.
The way I see it we are stuck in two quandries.

QB: We have nothing.
BJ is circling the drain and Bollinger :o as the backup and an unprepared TJ.

O-play calling:
A rookie HC in Childress and an unprepared OC in Bevell.
Give Bevell the reigns and see what happens, can't get worse.

The WRs are a third, making the pooch kick is a viable option in every 3rd and long.
Pathetic.
Bring in Cris Carter at whatever the cost and coach these bastards, starting at the pee-wee level and work their way up.

There are other concerns, but the first two are not really reparable this season, hope and pray is all we've got.

Marrdro
11-06-2006, 11:29 AM
"Acumen" wrote:


The Vikes need to do something.
The way I see it we are stuck in two quandries.

QB: We have nothing.
BJ is circling the drain and Bollinger :o as the backup and an unprepared TJ.

O-play calling:
A rookie HC in Childress and an unprepared OC in Bevell.
Give Bevell the reigns and see what happens, can't get worse.

The WRs are a third, making the pooch kick is a viable option in every 3rd and long.
Pathetic.
Bring in Cris Carter at whatever the cost and coach these bastards, starting at the pee-wee level and work their way up.

There are other concerns, but the first two are not really reparable this season, hope and pray is all we've got.



Well said.
Even though I have been a proponent of Tavaris (See my thread "Just a Thought:) I think this runs deeper than just the QB for instance:

Coaching Staff - How were we not prepared for an on sides kicks.
Do we only worry about them if we are ahead.
We weren't prepared.
WR - How come our guys consistently drop balls. Isn't it our coaching staffs job to fix that?
Adjustments - Didn't look like we made any offensive adjustments during the game.
Same old lame 1) run it up the middle, 2) run it up the middle, 3) short dump off to the RB/TE, 4) Punt.

As I stated before, my 16 year old who is just now showing an interest in the Vikings can call just about every play before it happens.

Lets hope our staff can grow from this

CCthebest
11-06-2006, 12:27 PM
Alot are saying TJack isnt ready. How do you know hes not ready? Because Childress hasnt played him yet? Childress, unfortunaetly has the final say, but that doesnt mean TJack isnt ready. Was Young ready? Bush? Lienart?

Also, how would TJack be worse? I doubt he would have as many turnovers as BJ does. And Id be willing to bet he could throw more TDs. Or at least A TD. And maybe even run for a first down or TD.

Maybe the receivers would see if a QB is replaced, they might be next. Maybe TWill would see Jason Carter coming in. Who knows.

And CC as receiver coach would be awesome. And beveil calling the plays would at least free up some of Childress's time.

davike
11-06-2006, 12:28 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


The Vikes need to do something.
The way I see it we are stuck in two quandries.

QB: We have nothing.
BJ is circling the drain and Bollinger :o as the backup and an unprepared TJ.

O-play calling:
A rookie HC in Childress and an unprepared OC in Bevell.
Give Bevell the reigns and see what happens, can't get worse.

The WRs are a third, making the pooch kick is a viable option in every 3rd and long.
Pathetic.
Bring in Cris Carter at whatever the cost and coach these bastards, starting at the pee-wee level and work their way up.

There are other concerns, but the first two are not really reparable this season, hope and pray is all we've got.



Well said.
Even though I have been a proponent of Tavaris (See my thread "Just a Thought:) I think this runs deeper than just the QB for instance:

Coaching Staff - How were we not prepared for an on sides kicks.
Do we only worry about them if we are ahead.
We weren't prepared.
WR - How come our guys consistently drop balls. Isn't it our coaching staffs job to fix that?
Adjustments - Didn't look like we made any offensive adjustments during the game.
Same old lame 1) run it up the middle, 2) run it up the middle, 3) short dump off to the RB/TE, 4) Punt.

As I stated before, my 16 year old who is just now showing an interest in the Vikings can call just about every play before it happens.

Lets hope our staff can grow from this


excellent post...we are making to many rookie mistakes....but hey honestly if we finish 9-7 or even 8-8 i wouldn't consider this season to be a failure. not many rookie headcoaches can bring in a whole new coaching staff alot of new starters and then have a winning season in his first season. i don't think that BJ should take all the blame though, he has made mistakes, but he has been one of the most consistent players this year on the offense. he hasn't been flashy but he has made almost no mistakes, except the past couple weeks

grpape
11-06-2006, 12:29 PM
I like the idea of getting CC over here to coach the receivers. It is the first year of this whole staff (learning curve has its bumps).

The one thing that Moss had that Johnson doesn't is the speed. The one thing that Johnson has that Moss never did was good character. When ESPN does there "did you know about the player" sideline babbles, it was mentioned that Johnson went over seas to build houses for families that needed them in a third world country. He is going back later this year, after the season, to check out his work and how the families are doing. Now that is a class act.

It would be nice to draft this guy. Anyting is possible with the way this season could go. He reminds me of a TO or Irvin type of receiver, without the ego.

davike
11-06-2006, 12:34 PM
"CCthebest" wrote:


Alot are saying TJack isnt ready. How do you know hes not ready? Because Childress hasnt played him yet? Childress, unfortunaetly has the final say, but that doesnt mean TJack isnt ready. Was Young ready? Bush? Lienart?

Also, how would TJack be worse? I doubt he would have as many turnovers as BJ does. And Id be willing to bet he could throw more TDs. Or at least A TD. And maybe even run for a first down or TD.

Maybe the receivers would see if a QB is replaced, they might be next. Maybe TWill would see Jason Carter coming in. Who knows.

And CC as receiver coach would be awesome. And beveil calling the plays would at least free up some of Childress's time.


i am a tavaris jackson fan, but i don't agree with starting QBs their rookie year. they will make rookie mistakes that will bring down the whole team. there is some exceptions, but not many. and lienhart and young, they are playing well for rookies but you can deffinetly see they are rookies. hey if BC decides to start jackson, then i wouldn't mind, just to see how he does, and if he does well then have him start, but i doubt he would do better then brad. and i wouldn't mind seeing carter come in at all, or having bevel try at playcalling and having cc come in as WR coach

VikesfaninWis
11-06-2006, 12:34 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


I agree that we need to do something at QB... but we don't exactly have a lot of options.
TJ is not ready.
I have said it a hundred times and I will say it again.
We will do more harm than good to him as a young QB if we put him in now.


That leaves us with BJ or Brooks.
Kinda like trying to pick the least smelly turd.
BJ has been outstanding for a long, long time.
But after two games with multiple INTs, and only scoring 3 points against the worst defense in the league, he is starting to lose my support.
Another loss to one of the "easy" teams and we won't mke the playoffs.


At this point I also worry about what will happen if we do get to the playoffs.
I don't want a first round butt-kicking, and if we can't figure out a way to get points on the board, that's exactly what will happen.




How can you say putting in TJ will do more harm then good? He is not going to learn a dam thing behind BJ, and Brooks Bollinger.. Behind BJ he will learn how to throw no more then 25 yards, and how to fumble the ball against a crappy defense.. Behind Brooks, the only thing he will learn is how to stay in the pocket and get sacked 3 straight times..

There have been plenty of rookies that have come into starting roles and have been just fine.. TJ is a very talented player.. I am sure that if he is given the opportunity, that he won't just fold, he will make the best of it.. Besides, we need to do something.. That pathetic idiot we call a QB, along with those helpless idiots that we call WR's are not going to get us anything but a good draft pick..

Prophet
11-06-2006, 12:40 PM
"VikesfaninWis" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


I agree that we need to do something at QB... but we don't exactly have a lot of options.
TJ is not ready.
I have said it a hundred times and I will say it again.
We will do more harm than good to him as a young QB if we put him in now.


That leaves us with BJ or Brooks.
Kinda like trying to pick the least smelly turd.
BJ has been outstanding for a long, long time.
But after two games with multiple INTs, and only scoring 3 points against the worst defense in the league, he is starting to lose my support.
Another loss to one of the "easy" teams and we won't mke the playoffs.


At this point I also worry about what will happen if we do get to the playoffs.
I don't want a first round butt-kicking, and if we can't figure out a way to get points on the board, that's exactly what will happen.




How can you say putting in TJ will do more harm then good? He is not going to learn a dam thing behind BJ, and Brooks Bollinger.. Behind BJ he will learn how to throw no more then 25 yards, and how to fumble the ball against a crappy defense.. Behind Brooks, the only thing he will learn is how to stay in the pocket and get sacked 3 straight times..

There have been plenty of rookies that have come into starting roles and have been just fine.. TJ is a very talented player.. I am sure that if he is given the opportunity, that he won't just fold, he will make the best of it.. Besides, we need to do something.. That pathetic idiot we call a QB, along with those helpless idiots that we call WR's are not going to get us anything but a good draft pick..


Put down the pipe.
TJ has much to learn and BJ has been a game manager his whole career, he has a ring to prove it.
He has never been anything more than an interim QB this year and he is not the only problem on the O.
TJ may see time at some point this season and if the coaching staff will make the decision and if he goes in I'll be behind him 100%.
Like Caine mentioned you could put Tom Brady in this O and he would falter, the WRs need to catch something for this to work.

V4L
11-06-2006, 12:44 PM
People are afraid of T-Jack making rookie mistakes.. Well im not sure but from what i've seen Brad Johnson is making rookie mistakes!

T-Jack is a duo threat QB and would open things up a bit..

Brooks I would like to see get a shot.. He looked good coming cold off the bench against a steller D.. He did get sacked 3 times yes.. But he wasn't into the swing of the game.. Next drive he drove us right down the field but made a bad mistake..

But he obviously has something Brad doesn't.. SKILL

Throw in one of the back ups.. See what they can do..






One Love

Bdubya
11-06-2006, 12:44 PM
I just want to score more than 3 points against the 49ers.
Whatever it takes to fix that problem, we should do.

cajunvike
11-06-2006, 12:47 PM
I think that we should just put McFly in!!!

cajunvike
11-06-2006, 12:54 PM
"Bdubya" wrote:


I just want to score more than 3 points against the 49ers.
Whatever it takes to fix that problem, we should do.


You need to update Vick's stats at the halfway point...he's at 1300+ yards passing (+ 600+ yards rushing) and 11TDs (+ 2 rushing).
If this keeps up, V4L might end up being right...SCARY THOUGHT!!!
:D

NodakPaul
11-06-2006, 12:59 PM
"V4L" wrote:


People are afraid of T-Jack making rookie mistakes.. Well im not sure but from what i've seen Brad Johnson is making rookie mistakes!

T-Jack is a duo threat QB and would open things up a bit..

Brooks I would like to see get a shot.. He looked good coming cold off the bench against a steller D.. He did get sacked 3 times yes.. But he wasn't into the swing of the game.. Next drive he drove us right down the field but made a bad mistake..

But he obviously has something Brad doesn't.. SKILL

Throw in one of the back ups.. See what they can do..






One Love


I am not afraid of TJ making rookie mistakes.
I am afraid of TJ learning rookie habits that are hard if not impossible to correct later on.
He needs a better understanding of the NFL game before he can go in and play with out making ocmpensations for his lack of knowledge.
These compensations can quickly become engrained and can take years to overcome.

Do you really want to take a chance on negatively effecting the career of our QB of the future just so we can win a couple of more games (and then get smoked in the playoffs)?

V4L
11-06-2006, 01:09 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


People are afraid of T-Jack making rookie mistakes.. Well im not sure but from what i've seen Brad Johnson is making rookie mistakes!

T-Jack is a duo threat QB and would open things up a bit..

Brooks I would like to see get a shot.. He looked good coming cold off the bench against a steller D.. He did get sacked 3 times yes.. But he wasn't into the swing of the game.. Next drive he drove us right down the field but made a bad mistake..

But he obviously has something Brad doesn't.. SKILL

Throw in one of the back ups.. See what they can do..






One Love


I am not afraid of TJ making rookie mistakes.
I am afraid of TJ learning rookie habits that are hard if not impossible to correct later on.
He needs a better understanding of the NFL game before he can go in and play with out making ocmpensations for his lack of knowledge.
These compensations can quickly become engrained and can take years to overcome.

Do you really want to take a chance on negatively effecting the career of our QB of the future just so we can win a couple of more games (and then get smoked in the playoffs)?


Yah, you could be right.. That's a reason why I want to see Brooks before T-Jack..

But on the other hand.. Sometimes it's just nice to get in there and learn from your mistakes.. I know the best way I learn something is to just do it and learn from the mistakes you make and correct them.. Not sure if that would be the same with an NFL QB or not.. That's why im not an NFL coach.. I couldn't tell u if it could hurt or help him.. Or the team even

But I just think we need a change.. Not saying it will help.. Just try to find a spark!





One Love

Del Rio
11-06-2006, 01:14 PM
The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.

olson_10
11-06-2006, 01:15 PM
the future looks good defensively because those guys have a lot of years left in them at every position..offensively im not so sure about..the o-line is in good shape, and theyre young, but birk is getting up there in age right now to add to his recent injruy problems..WR looks horrible as of now, with robinson constantly hurt, and williamson unable to catch anything thrown his way, the young guys there dont do anything to excite me about next year, or the year after..we will need to make at least 2 big WR signings in FA this offseason..chester is gonna be a great back for years to come, and hopefully we can get 2-3 more years out of richardson..TE is in good shape, except the fact that childress has phased them almost completely out of the offense..BJ is done here after this season i think (poor play, contract situation), which leaves a toss up at that position because we dont know what t-jack will look like if he starts next season, especially without gaining any live game experience this season (i dont see him playing a down this year)

i think with Wilf owning this team, we will get the receivers, and pieces needed to fix this offense in the next offseason, which leaves this offense some sort of hope for the next couple of years..for now we gotta hope the defense can put up 14 pts a game to give us any chance

Zeus
11-06-2006, 01:17 PM
"vikings11_27" wrote:


Put in tarvaris jackson and see if we have a QB of the future. And then draft this guy. I know its early, but Brad Johnson sucks


So - you'd be happy with the 4-12 record it's going to take (that's 10 straight losses, if you want to count them) to get into the position to MAYBE draft Calvin Johnson?
Would that be fun?
I bet that would be an exciting time to be a Viking fan, as they tank the season to get that WR which is the difference between the tugboat of an offense we have now and the electrifying quick-hit OFFENSE we'll have in 2006 with Tarvaris Jackson tossing long, arching TD strikes to wide-open phenom Calvin Johnson?

Yeah.
You're right.
That would be cool.
I guess our next loss needs to be this weekend to the Packers!
You better call the front office at Winter Park to let Childress know the new master plan!

=Z=
VOTE TOMORROW.

Gift
11-06-2006, 01:20 PM
"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.
I agree with some of what you said but the more games I watch the more I start to think the BC is too damn stubborn to make adjustments even when things need adjusting.

Prophet
11-06-2006, 01:23 PM
"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.


That makes no sense.
I'm going with the 14 yr olds.

V4L
11-06-2006, 01:24 PM
"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.



You're right, and he also sees Brad suck it up on Sundays and hold the ball too long..

Right now, I don't think we can make many changes.. WR's we are out of options when we passed on Branch or Porter.. So throw in J-Carter maybe and hope he can make a play?

O-line.. Welllllllllll.. Rosenthal? I wouldn't mind seeing him start a game.. IDK.. Johnson is pretty bad..

TE's FB's and RB's.. We're fine..

QB.. Well we have a couple options.. Brooks.. DO IT.. See what he can do.. If not well.. Who cares.. We tryed.. T-jack.. I wouldn't throw in.. But wouldn't complain if we did






One Love

Del Rio
11-06-2006, 01:25 PM
"Gift" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.
I agree with some of what you said but the more games I watch the more I start to think the BC is too gol 'darnit stubborn to make adjustments even when things need adjusting.



Why would a HC in the NFL want to lose ball games? Especially a first year coach playing for an owner who needs his team to win in order to pump up morale for a stadium deal?

If Childress gets canned here you can bet your ass he doesn't HC in the NFL again. Why would you screw yourself over your first season over something as stupid as this?

It just doesn't make sense. If he see's tavaris can play and can win games then I have no doubt in the world the guy would pull the trigger.

In all honesty we have no idea if Tavaris could tell his ass from a hole in the ground. He could be a Fran Foley stubborn move to hurt the team.

Del Rio
11-06-2006, 01:29 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.



You're right, and he also sees Brad suck it up on Sundays and hold the ball too long..

Right now, I don't think we can make many changes.. WR's we are out of options when we passed on Branch or Porter.. So throw in J-Carter maybe and hope he can make a play?

O-line.. Welllllllllll.. Rosenthal? I wouldn't mind seeing him start a game.. IDK.. Johnson is pretty bad..

TE's FB's and RB's.. We're fine..

QB.. Well we have a couple options.. Brooks.. DO IT.. See what he can do.. If not well.. Who cares.. We tryed.. T-jack.. I wouldn't throw in.. But wouldn't complain if we did






One Love


Actually I am willing to bet that he see's exactly what happens unlike people here. You see Brad stink it up. Childress watches game film breaks each play down and finds out what went wrong and from hearing his press conferences, and even today what Tony Richardson had to say it is obvious that it is breaking down in ALOT of areas.

People that are thinking Tavaris is sitting on the pine for the sole reason that Childress is stubborn are fooling themselves. Why!!!??? Why would he do that? Because of the Culpepper trade??? LMAO!!! OUR STARTING QB makes 1million dollars a year. I have a feeling Childress would bench his ass in a heartbeat if he felt another guy gave us a better chance to win.

ItalianStallion
11-06-2006, 01:30 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


People are afraid of T-Jack making rookie mistakes.. Well im not sure but from what i've seen Brad Johnson is making rookie mistakes!

T-Jack is a duo threat QB and would open things up a bit..

Brooks I would like to see get a shot.. He looked good coming cold off the bench against a steller D.. He did get sacked 3 times yes.. But he wasn't into the swing of the game.. Next drive he drove us right down the field but made a bad mistake..

But he obviously has something Brad doesn't.. SKILL

Throw in one of the back ups.. See what they can do..






One Love


I am not afraid of TJ making rookie mistakes.
I am afraid of TJ learning rookie habits that are hard if not impossible to correct later on.
He needs a better understanding of the NFL game before he can go in and play with out making ocmpensations for his lack of knowledge.
These compensations can quickly become engrained and can take years to overcome.

Do you really want to take a chance on negatively effecting the career of our QB of the future just so we can win a couple of more games (and then get smoked in the playoffs)?


You are making a generalization regarding a few poor rookie QBs who ended up being bust (and likely would have even if they sat their first year), and ignoring the many exceptions to this "rule".
Brad Childress is failing miserable as an offensive tactician and I'm sorry if I don't bow down to his many years of experience (I'm not saying I'd do better but it's becoming increasing more clear he does not know how to call plays or coach a quarterback).
I don't actually believe we'll see TarJack in there, Childress is too stubborn to do anything like that.


Brad is currently playing as bad as any rookie would, if we keep up our current offensive production we WILL NOT make the playoffs.
Brad is now even starting to make mistakes.
Before he was just inneffective, now he's hurting the team.
Why wait until we are out of the playoff picture to make the change?

Many people are against the thought of TJ starting unless we are out of playoff contention because "Brad gives us the best chance to win".
Personally, I don't see how averaging 10.5 ppg or 3 total points in the past 2 games puts us in ANY position to win ANY game.

We need to decide if TJ should start AT ALL this season, or if TJ should only start when we're out of the playoffs.
And if you agree with the second option, then why shouldn't he start now.

I don't think it's all Brad Johnson's fault, but a lot of it is.
TJ could go in there and do just as bad, but at least he'd be learning.
If we have such a great coaching staff at developing QBs then I would assume that they would be able to coach Tarvaris through any mistakes he would undoubtably make without Tarvaris becoming a wasted QB who started too soon.
Give the guy a little credit, he's not retarded, he can learn like anyone else.

V4L
11-06-2006, 01:33 PM
"Del" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.



You're right, and he also sees Brad suck it up on Sundays and hold the ball too long..

Right now, I don't think we can make many changes.. WR's we are out of options when we passed on Branch or Porter.. So throw in J-Carter maybe and hope he can make a play?

O-line.. Welllllllllll.. Rosenthal? I wouldn't mind seeing him start a game.. IDK.. Johnson is pretty bad..

TE's FB's and RB's.. We're fine..

QB.. Well we have a couple options.. Brooks.. DO IT.. See what he can do.. If not well.. Who cares.. We tryed.. T-jack.. I wouldn't throw in.. But wouldn't complain if we did






One Love


Actually I am willing to bet that he see's exactly what happens unlike people here. You see Brad stink it up. Childress watches game film breaks each play down and finds out what went wrong and from hearing his press conferences, and even today what Tony Richardson had to say it is obvious that it is breaking down in ALOT of areas.

People that are thinking Tavaris is sitting on the pine for the sole reason that Childress is stubborn are fooling themselves. Why!!!??? Why would he do that? Because of the Culpepper trade??? LMAO!!! OUR STARTING QB makes 1million dollars a year. I have a feeling Childress would bench his jiggly butt in a heartbeat if he felt another guy gave us a better chance to win.



You're right man.. That's why I don't like to pin all the blame on Brad.. That's why I pointed out all the other soft spots that i've noticed

But right now at this point of the season.. With the trade deadline over and probably no free agents that could improve this team enough to help us make a playoff push, I would just like to see our other options at QB.. See if they can work with what we have.. Which isn't much.. But who knows maybe Brooks can stay calm and throw away the ball when nessisary instead of getting sacked and fumbling from it..

So yah, i'm not furious with Brad.. I know he is doing what he can.. But it isn't putting up points.. I'm not sure if any of our other QB's can put up points either.. But it's worth a shot with the season half way over.. See if we can find a Tony Romo






One Love

Del Rio
11-06-2006, 01:34 PM
Of course you need to single one guy out. I mean there are 11 players on the field and a handful of coaches and human beings only have 10 fingers so you can only point at so many people. Sure it doesn't make any sense at all but it is phisically way easier to find one guy and point at him.

Gift
11-06-2006, 01:38 PM
"Del" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.
I agree with some of what you said but the more games I watch the more I start to think the BC is too gol 'darnit stubborn to make adjustments even when things need adjusting.



Why would a HC in the NFL want to lose ball games? Especially a first year coach playing for an owner who needs his team to win in order to pump up morale for a stadium deal?

If Childress gets canned here you can bet your jiggly butt he doesn't HC in the NFL again. Why would you screw yourself over your first season over something as stupid as this?

It just doesn't make sense. If he see's tavaris can play and can win games then I have no doubt in the world the guy would pull the trigger.

In all honesty we have no idea if Tavaris could tell his jiggly butt from a hole in the ground. He could be a Fran Foley stubborn move to hurt the team.

I'm not screaming for t-jack to come in by any means, just wanted that to be clear.

I dont think BC is trying to lsoe games, I think he believes his game plans will work next set of downs regardless if they have been working or not.
The redzone play calling is a perfect example, it hasnt changed or worked all year long.
2 runs & a pass play that doesnt have recievers actually go into the endzone.
All 2nd half san fran was playing the run with 8 in the box but did we adjust?
of course not.
We just kept "pounding away" for no yards & then puniting.
This was the worst D in the league, weak against the pass & we did nothing to exploit it.
There are so many things going on here that I'm not saying "this is why we lost" but it is a factor.

BC will be a good coach in the league but he needs to start learning from the recent past if we are to win.

Del Rio
11-06-2006, 01:39 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.



You're right, and he also sees Brad suck it up on Sundays and hold the ball too long..

Right now, I don't think we can make many changes.. WR's we are out of options when we passed on Branch or Porter.. So throw in J-Carter maybe and hope he can make a play?

O-line.. Welllllllllll.. Rosenthal? I wouldn't mind seeing him start a game.. IDK.. Johnson is pretty bad..

TE's FB's and RB's.. We're fine..

QB.. Well we have a couple options.. Brooks.. DO IT.. See what he can do.. If not well.. Who cares.. We tryed.. T-jack.. I wouldn't throw in.. But wouldn't complain if we did






One Love


Actually I am willing to bet that he see's exactly what happens unlike people here. You see Brad stink it up. Childress watches game film breaks each play down and finds out what went wrong and from hearing his press conferences, and even today what Tony Richardson had to say it is obvious that it is breaking down in ALOT of areas.

People that are thinking Tavaris is sitting on the pine for the sole reason that Childress is stubborn are fooling themselves. Why!!!??? Why would he do that? Because of the Culpepper trade??? LMAO!!! OUR STARTING QB makes 1million dollars a year. I have a feeling Childress would bench his jiggly butt in a heartbeat if he felt another guy gave us a better chance to win.



You're right man.. That's why I don't like to pin all the blame on Brad.. That's why I pointed out all the other soft spots that i've noticed

But right now at this point of the season.. With the trade deadline over and probably no free agents that could improve this team enough to help us make a playoff push, I would just like to see our other options at QB.. See if they can work with what we have.. Which isn't much.. But who knows maybe Brooks can stay calm and throw away the ball when nessisary instead of getting sacked and fumbling from it..

So yah, i'm not furious with Brad.. I know he is doing what he can.. But it isn't putting up points.. I'm not sure if any of our other QB's can put up points either.. But it's worth a shot with the season half way over.. See if we can find a Tony Romo






One Love


I'm not saying your a Brad hater, and I am no Brad lover he is obviously struggling.

Obviously Brad Childress isn't ready to throw in the towel yet, and I for one appreciate that. The Dallas situation is so different then our own I can't see why people constantly bring it up. Our offense is disfunctional one many many levels. We have no Terry Glenn no Terrel Owens.

Think of a light bulb as a QB. It burns out and you change it problem solved. That is Dallas. Now the same situation only it's not the bulb it is the fixture, put any light bulb in there you want it will not succeed in lighting to room because there is a bigger problem.

ItalianStallion
11-06-2006, 01:41 PM
"Del" wrote:


Of course you need to single one guy out. I mean there are 11 players on the field and a handful of coaches and human beings only have 10 fingers so you can only point at so many people. Sure it doesn't make any sense at all but it is phisically way easier to find one guy and point at him.


Well, we don't really have any other options for the other 11 players.
There's not much in FA and we can't trade.
But Brad, by his immobility and lack of a strong arm is extremely limited in what he CAN do on his own.
Tarvaris has shown he can elude pressure and make plays when thing break down.
Maybe next time it's 3rd and 7, we'll have a QB who can run for it when everyone's covered, versus being limited to dumping it off for a 3 yard pass.

Del Rio
11-06-2006, 01:42 PM
"Gift" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.
I agree with some of what you said but the more games I watch the more I start to think the BC is too gol 'darnit stubborn to make adjustments even when things need adjusting.



Why would a HC in the NFL want to lose ball games? Especially a first year coach playing for an owner who needs his team to win in order to pump up morale for a stadium deal?

If Childress gets canned here you can bet your jiggly butt he doesn't HC in the NFL again. Why would you screw yourself over your first season over something as stupid as this?

It just doesn't make sense. If he see's tavaris can play and can win games then I have no doubt in the world the guy would pull the trigger.

In all honesty we have no idea if Tavaris could tell his jiggly butt from a hole in the ground. He could be a Fran Foley stubborn move to hurt the team.

I'm not screaming for t-jack to come in by any means, just wanted that to be clear.

I dont think BC is trying to lsoe games, I think he believes his game plans will work next set of downs regardless if they have been working or not.

The redzone play calling is a perfect example, it hasnt changed or worked all year long.
2 runs & a pass play that doesnt have recievers actually go into the endzone.
All 2nd half san fran was playing the run with 8 in the box but did we adjust?
of course not.
We just kept "pounding away" for no yards & then puniting.
This was the worst D in the league, weak against the pass & we did nothing to exploit it.
There are so many things going on here that I'm not saying "this is why we lost" but it is a factor.

BC will be a good coach in the league but he needs to start learning from the recent past if we are to win.


Almost every trip to the redzone has ended with a turnover or penalty. So I can see why he thinks his plays will work. The ball hits your hands to move the chains and you drop it thats on the player not the play. The Qb fumbles thats on the player, illegal block in the back that is on the player, interception that is not the play it is the player............

So I can see why the guy would have faith in his system. Does he have faith in his players? Maybe not so much anymore.

Del Rio
11-06-2006, 01:44 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Of course you need to single one guy out. I mean there are 11 players on the field and a handful of coaches and human beings only have 10 fingers so you can only point at so many people. Sure it doesn't make any sense at all but it is phisically way easier to find one guy and point at him.


Well, we don't really have any other options for the other 11 players.
There's not much in FA and we can't trade.
But Brad, by his immobility and lack of a strong arm is extremely limited in what he CAN do on his own.
Tarvaris has shown he can elude pressure and make plays when thing break down.
Maybe next time it's 3rd and 7, we'll have a QB who can run for it when everyone's covered, versus being limited to dumping it off for a 3 yard pass.


Maybe, but until he can show Childress he can play then not a chance. He has shown he can ellude pressure in the pre-season and Childress must know something we don't because you do not see Tavaris flying up the depth chart after putting up the same numbers against 3rd stringers as Brad did against 1st stringers in the pre-season.

I will start to get excited when he goes from #3 to #2. Until then he isn't even an option.

NodakPaul
11-06-2006, 01:46 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


You are making a generalization regarding a few poor rookie QBs who ended up being bust (and likely would have even if they sat their first year), and ignoring the many exceptions to this "rule".



That is fair.
Show me a list of rookie QBs who came from Div 1AA schools that were able to start halfway through their rookie year and be successful.

Rookie QBs are rarely started because of the huge transition from college to NFL.
Those who do get a chance to start are invariably first rounders who came from large schools where the pace and skill set is closer.
And even then it is not a guaruntee that you will get a Ben Roethlisberger and not a Ryan Leaf.
And for that matter, Big Ben is having his own issues with bad habits right now...

V4L
11-06-2006, 01:46 PM
"Del" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.



You're right, and he also sees Brad suck it up on Sundays and hold the ball too long..

Right now, I don't think we can make many changes.. WR's we are out of options when we passed on Branch or Porter.. So throw in J-Carter maybe and hope he can make a play?

O-line.. Welllllllllll.. Rosenthal? I wouldn't mind seeing him start a game.. IDK.. Johnson is pretty bad..

TE's FB's and RB's.. We're fine..

QB.. Well we have a couple options.. Brooks.. DO IT.. See what he can do.. If not well.. Who cares.. We tryed.. T-jack.. I wouldn't throw in.. But wouldn't complain if we did






One Love


Actually I am willing to bet that he see's exactly what happens unlike people here. You see Brad stink it up. Childress watches game film breaks each play down and finds out what went wrong and from hearing his press conferences, and even today what Tony Richardson had to say it is obvious that it is breaking down in ALOT of areas.

People that are thinking Tavaris is sitting on the pine for the sole reason that Childress is stubborn are fooling themselves. Why!!!??? Why would he do that? Because of the Culpepper trade??? LMAO!!! OUR STARTING QB makes 1million dollars a year. I have a feeling Childress would bench his jiggly butt in a heartbeat if he felt another guy gave us a better chance to win.



You're right man.. That's why I don't like to pin all the blame on Brad.. That's why I pointed out all the other soft spots that i've noticed

But right now at this point of the season.. With the trade deadline over and probably no free agents that could improve this team enough to help us make a playoff push, I would just like to see our other options at QB.. See if they can work with what we have.. Which isn't much.. But who knows maybe Brooks can stay calm and throw away the ball when nessisary instead of getting sacked and fumbling from it..

So yah, i'm not furious with Brad.. I know he is doing what he can.. But it isn't putting up points.. I'm not sure if any of our other QB's can put up points either.. But it's worth a shot with the season half way over.. See if we can find a Tony Romo






One Love


I'm not saying your a Brad hater, and I am no Brad lover he is obviously struggling.

Obviously Brad Childress isn't ready to throw in the towel yet, and I for one appreciate that. The Dallas situation is so different then our own I can't see why people constantly bring it up. Our offense is disfunctional one many many levels. We have no Terry Glenn no Terrel Owens.

Think of a light bulb as a QB. It burns out and you change it problem solved. That is Dallas. Now the same situation only it's not the bulb it is the fixture, put any light bulb in there you want it will not succeed in lighting to room because there is a bigger problem.


I can see where you're coming from..

But, there has been a few cases where there has been a pretty weak group on offense and a player comes in and produces.. Mmm.. How about Bledsoe getting injured and Brady coming in and ripping it up? Pretty average group there and he produced.. Brought home a ring..

I'm sure there is a few more..

But, yah the offense is totally different then Dallas.. Bledsoe is clearly not what he used to be.. Couldn't produce with Glenn, T-ho, Witten, Barber, And Jones..

I just don't know.. Kinda seems like B.C likes to stick to his game plan a little too long.. I mean when we were getting torched last week against Brady we made NO adjustments.. Stuck with the soft zone and he took what he could.. Our goalline situation ALL season.. It's so predictable.. I bet coaches salivate watching the game film and see the same thing over and over..

I think he needs to make some changes.. And a QB change could help.. If not.. Well hey Brooks made as many mistakes as Brad has been making




One Love

Del Rio
11-06-2006, 01:52 PM
"V4L" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:




The thing is this, Brad Childress gets to see Tavaris every single day in practice. He gets to evaluate him on every thing that a QB has to do in a game and there are lots of things.

He gets to evaluate his understanding of the plays. His ability to call them out in a huddle clearly and loud enough that the other 10 guys on the team know what they are doing. He gets to look at his cadence, his reads, his audibles, his positioning.

All you fanbois are judging him on are two things and two things alone. He can throw the ball deep, and he can scramble.

I'm going to go with coach Childress on this one.



You're right, and he also sees Brad suck it up on Sundays and hold the ball too long..

Right now, I don't think we can make many changes.. WR's we are out of options when we passed on Branch or Porter.. So throw in J-Carter maybe and hope he can make a play?

O-line.. Welllllllllll.. Rosenthal? I wouldn't mind seeing him start a game.. IDK.. Johnson is pretty bad..

TE's FB's and RB's.. We're fine..

QB.. Well we have a couple options.. Brooks.. DO IT.. See what he can do.. If not well.. Who cares.. We tryed.. T-jack.. I wouldn't throw in.. But wouldn't complain if we did






One Love


Actually I am willing to bet that he see's exactly what happens unlike people here. You see Brad stink it up. Childress watches game film breaks each play down and finds out what went wrong and from hearing his press conferences, and even today what Tony Richardson had to say it is obvious that it is breaking down in ALOT of areas.

People that are thinking Tavaris is sitting on the pine for the sole reason that Childress is stubborn are fooling themselves. Why!!!??? Why would he do that? Because of the Culpepper trade??? LMAO!!! OUR STARTING QB makes 1million dollars a year. I have a feeling Childress would bench his jiggly butt in a heartbeat if he felt another guy gave us a better chance to win.



You're right man.. That's why I don't like to pin all the blame on Brad.. That's why I pointed out all the other soft spots that i've noticed

But right now at this point of the season.. With the trade deadline over and probably no free agents that could improve this team enough to help us make a playoff push, I would just like to see our other options at QB.. See if they can work with what we have.. Which isn't much.. But who knows maybe Brooks can stay calm and throw away the ball when nessisary instead of getting sacked and fumbling from it..

So yah, i'm not furious with Brad.. I know he is doing what he can.. But it isn't putting up points.. I'm not sure if any of our other QB's can put up points either.. But it's worth a shot with the season half way over.. See if we can find a Tony Romo






One Love


I'm not saying your a Brad hater, and I am no Brad lover he is obviously struggling.

Obviously Brad Childress isn't ready to throw in the towel yet, and I for one appreciate that. The Dallas situation is so different then our own I can't see why people constantly bring it up. Our offense is disfunctional one many many levels. We have no Terry Glenn no Terrel Owens.

Think of a light bulb as a QB. It burns out and you change it problem solved. That is Dallas. Now the same situation only it's not the bulb it is the fixture, put any light bulb in there you want it will not succeed in lighting to room because there is a bigger problem.


I can see where you're coming from..

But, there has been a few cases where there has been a pretty weak group on offense and a player comes in and produces.. Mmm.. How about Bledsoe getting injured and Brady coming in and ripping it up? Pretty average group there and he produced.. Brought home a ring..

I'm sure there is a few more..

But, yah the offense is totally different then Dallas.. Bledsoe is clearly not what he used to be.. Couldn't produce with Glenn, T-ho, Witten, Barber, And Jones..

I just don't know.. Kinda seems like B.C likes to stick to his game plan a little too long.. I mean when we were getting torched last week against Brady we made NO adjustments.. Stuck with the soft zone and he took what he could.. Our goalline situation ALL season.. It's so predictable.. I bet coaches salivate watching the game film and see the same thing over and over..

I think he needs to make some changes.. And a QB change could help.. If not.. Well hey Brooks made as many mistakes as Brad has been making




One Love


Something needs to change no doubt. Even if it is just attitude. Something is not working. Hopefully they can get it fixed soon enough to make a playoff run.

V4L
11-06-2006, 02:01 PM
Agreed Del :)





One Love

Bdubya
11-06-2006, 02:29 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


"Bdubya" wrote:


I just want to score more than 3 points against the 49ers.
Whatever it takes to fix that problem, we should do.


You need to update Vick's stats at the halfway point...he's at 1300+ yards passing (+ 600+ yards rushing) and 11TDs (+ 2 rushing).
If this keeps up, V4L might end up being right...SCARY THOUGHT!!!
:D


I know I should, but the closer he gets do being right, the dumber I look for putting it in my sig.

ItalianStallion
11-06-2006, 05:59 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


You are making a generalization regarding a few poor rookie QBs who ended up being bust (and likely would have even if they sat their first year), and ignoring the many exceptions to this "rule".



That is fair.
Show me a list of rookie QBs who came from Div 1AA schools that were able to start halfway through their rookie year and be successful.

Rookie QBs are rarely started because of the huge transition from college to NFL.
Those who do get a chance to start are invariably first rounders who came from large schools where the pace and skill set is closer.

And even then it is not a guaruntee that you will get a Ben Roethlisberger and not a Ryan Leaf.
And for that matter, Big Ben is having his own issues with bad habits right now...


I'm not saying that Tarvaris Jackson will come in and light it up for 30+ points a game.
I'm not saying he wouldn't make rookie mistakes one expect from a rookie QB.
I realize that playing speed and talent in the NFL take some adjusting to.
But what better way to adjust then to get in that game speed situation?
All of the problems associated with the talent gap from div I-AA require game experience to get over.
He will not be more comfortable with the speed of the game next year after reading the playbook or watching from the sidelines this year.
There is no gurantee that he will be a success if he waits till next year to start.
Granted, he may get confused with complex defenses (Which is what seems is happening to Brad lately), but then it's on Childress to simplify the offense for him (and it's not like that would make it any more ineffective).

I am saying that not all players collapse after making rookie mistakes and having rough rookie seasons.
A players MENTAL resilience and dedication has nothing to do with what school they played at.
Sure his head might be swimming his first few starts, but he will get the hang of it and get in the flow of the game.
If he isn't, then that falls on the coaching.

If Tarvaris Jackson is ever going to be the starting QB for us, he will start out rough.
So I guess my question is...when would you rather he take his lumps...when our D is playing great and our offense couldn't get much worse, or with the pressure of having to start next season quickly and take a team (that we all believe has the talent), to the playoffs?

Does anyone actually see us going 6-2 the rest of the way when our offense is scoring 10.5 points per game?

Mr Anderson
11-06-2006, 06:41 PM
Pick up a RT like, Wayne Gandy, Leonard Davis, or Max Starks(Crossing my fingers for starks) move Johnson to GUARD GUARD GUARD, that is the position he played in college, and was the best college guard in the draft that year, but we moved him out of position. That will solidify the line 100%.

Wide receiver is an obvious weakness, I think there will definitely be a good receiver available in the draft when we're picking this year, depending on how many go pro, Johnson, Jarret(SP),Ginn, Samardzija(sucks I dont want him), or Paul Williams from Fresno State.
There are truly no wide receivers worth picking up in FA this season, so I'd count that out.

RB-We're fine.
OL-I mentioned
QB- Expect something to happen if we're eliminated from playoff contention.
WR- I mentioned.
FB- Excellent
TE- No big play guy, but we get the job done between Wiggy, and Kleinsasser.

Defense, cue hakuna-matata(it means no worries)

njvikins
11-06-2006, 06:52 PM
We should give Tavaris Jackson or even Brooks Bollinger a shot at the starting qb job because brad's only strength is that he takes care of the ball and he can't even do that right now so at least Tavarus or Brooks can move around in the pocket and make plays. Also this is the last year in Brads contract so he might be gone anyway so we should think of the future now and not waste next season breaking in a new QB.

fishbelly
11-06-2006, 07:10 PM
I'm going to say I don't really think it's going to matter whose at QB right now. Brad has probably played his worst games to date. It's still not going to help if the O line can't block and the receivers can't hold onto the ball. Hmmm, but then look at Dallas and the Romo / Bledsoe situation. Do you think that helped? They do have more spark in the offense. I stick with BJ. Adjust our play calling. I wonder what Childress will do.......I hope we get a new stadium soon. I'd love to see the game back outdoors in the frozen tundra!

Tanner_QBRB8
11-06-2006, 07:11 PM
Jacksonville has a QB controversy and if thers anyway we could get David Garrard or Leftwich,but we'd probaly end up with Garrard if anybody, we would be set Tarvaris is going to need some more time if he is the answer right now im content with Bollinger but i do think we need to get Johnson out there if he has 1 more bad game because for the most part the rest of the season the defenses are terrible with the exception of the Bears and St. Louis isnt terrible either we should win atleast 9 and maybe 10 games this year if we get our stuff together because the D is solid and if the Brad or Whoever is playing QB can it togther were set but something is going to have to happen and soon

Mr Anderson
11-06-2006, 07:13 PM
"njvikins" wrote:


We should give Tavaris Jackson or even Brooks Bollinger a shot at the starting qb job because brad's only strength is that he takes care of the ball and he can't even do that right now so at least Tavarus or Brooks can move around in the pocket and make plays. Also this is the last year in Brads contract so he might be gone anyway so we should think of the future now and not waste next season breaking in a new QB.


The worst thing we could do is start Brooks Bollinger.

They tried in with the Jets, and were forced to bring back Vinny Testaverde to replace him.

Bollinger is not the answer, he's probably the worst quarterback on our squad, including the practice squad.

bobbybryant101
11-06-2006, 07:30 PM
"Acumen" wrote:


The cumulative years of coaching experience of our coaching staff is greater than the number of years most of you have been alive.
It Tarvaris Jackson was ready he would be playing.
It you can't handle that reality then stick to the video games.


I didn't know coaches were infallible. If I remember correctly, Tarvaris worked his way to the #2 spot, prior to his knee operation, if he's hasn't healed then not playing him is justified. I don't disagree with the premise, he may not be ready, but his not being ready may at least put a few TD's on the board, Johnson needs to sit.

NodakPaul
11-06-2006, 08:01 PM
I don't think anyone is saying that the coaches are infailable.
I just think the risks of putting TJ in outweigh the benefits, and my guess is the coaches do too, which is why he isn't starting...

Pros and Cons to putting TJ in:
Pro: Would provide a different dimention at QB, which could spark our offense
Pro: He can't do any worse than BJ is right now
Cons: Has only been playing in the NFL for half a year, so the offense would have to be simplified
Cons: Bad showings could cause confidence issues
Cons: Limited knowledge set increases the chance of TJ developing compensation habits

I think there is a myrid of problems with our offense right now, starting at the top with play calling (I am a BC supporter, but he is starting to be rather predictable...).
Benching BJ in favor of TJ will not solve our problems at WR or OL.

Prophet
11-06-2006, 08:22 PM
"bobbybryant101" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


The cumulative years of coaching experience of our coaching staff is greater than the number of years most of you have been alive.
It Tarvaris Jackson was ready he would be playing.
It you can't handle that reality then stick to the video games.


I didn't know coaches were infallible. If I remember correctly, Tarvaris worked his way to the #2 spot, prior to his knee operation, if he's hasn't healed then not playing him is justified. I don't disagree with the premise, he may not be ready, but his not being ready may at least put a few TD's on the board, Johnson needs to sit.


I didn't say they were infallible.
I said, in a nutshell, that the coaching staff has dedicated their lives to coaching.
What's your background?
Did you win a few games in Madden?
Play some high school ball?
TJ is #3 on the depth chart, if the coaching staff thought he was ready and thought he would give them the best chance of winning he would be playing.
The coaching staff has a helluva lot more riding on the Ws then you or me.

ItalianStallion
11-06-2006, 08:39 PM
"Acumen" wrote:


"bobbybryant101" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


The cumulative years of coaching experience of our coaching staff is greater than the number of years most of you have been alive.
It Tarvaris Jackson was ready he would be playing.
It you can't handle that reality then stick to the video games.


I didn't know coaches were infallible. If I remember correctly, Tarvaris worked his way to the #2 spot, prior to his knee operation, if he's hasn't healed then not playing him is justified. I don't disagree with the premise, he may not be ready, but his not being ready may at least put a few TD's on the board, Johnson needs to sit.


I didn't say they were infallible.
I said, in a nutshell, that the coaching staff has dedicated their lives to coaching.
What's your background?
Did you win a few games in Madden?
Play some high school ball?
TJ is #3 on the depth chart, if the coaching staff thought he was ready and thought he would give them the best chance of winning he would be playing.
The coaching staff has a helluva lot more riding on the Ws then you or me.




You know what I love most?
I love it how, when anyone suggests that more athletic players should play/be drafted/ be signed and someone, usually to old to even know how to play Madden suggests that all their knowledge comes from Madden.

Everybody here watches football.
We all watch the same game that the coaches watch.
Most people here have played football at some point and many people have played throughout their youth and sometimes at the university level.
Coaches are not geniuses, they make mistakes that people with general football knowledge can pick up on.
It does not take a genius to realize that Childress can't run this offense...at least with the people we have in there.
Coaching staffs aren't always right and coaches don't always do what needs to be done for a team to succeed.
So maybe Tarvaris isn't ready, and maybe I don't know that, but I do know watching our offense makes me physically ill and Childress is doing jacksh*t in the way of personnel or playcalling to fix it.
The fact that the coaches have more riding on getting Ws than me has nothing to do with it.
Pressure doesn't mean better decisions...If it did, than Brad Johnson might actually be able to convert some 3rd downs.

Is Tarvaris Jackson "ready"?
Maybe not, I can only go off of what I've seen from him in the preseason.
But I can tell you right now, realizing that we are not getting it done at the QB position does not make me a "Maddenfan".
If you knew anything you would know that Tarvaris Jackson sucks in Madden anyway...so maybe that makes all you Pro-Brad anti-Jackson fans the REAL maddenfans.

Prophet
11-06-2006, 08:47 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


"bobbybryant101" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


The cumulative years of coaching experience of our coaching staff is greater than the number of years most of you have been alive.
It Tarvaris Jackson was ready he would be playing.
It you can't handle that reality then stick to the video games.


I didn't know coaches were infallible. If I remember correctly, Tarvaris worked his way to the #2 spot, prior to his knee operation, if he's hasn't healed then not playing him is justified. I don't disagree with the premise, he may not be ready, but his not being ready may at least put a few TD's on the board, Johnson needs to sit.


I didn't say they were infallible.
I said, in a nutshell, that the coaching staff has dedicated their lives to coaching.
What's your background?
Did you win a few games in Madden?
Play some high school ball?
TJ is #3 on the depth chart, if the coaching staff thought he was ready and thought he would give them the best chance of winning he would be playing.
The coaching staff has a helluva lot more riding on the Ws then you or me.




You know what I love most?
I love it how, when anyone suggests that more athletic players should play/be drafted/ be signed and someone, usually to old to even know how to play Madden suggests that all their knowledge comes from Madden.

Everybody here watches football.
We all watch the same game that the coaches watch.
Most people here have played football at some point and many people have played throughout their youth and sometimes at the university level.
Coaches are not geniuses, they make mistakes that people with general football knowledge can pick up on.
It does not take a genius to realize that Childress can't run this offense...at least with the people we have in there.
Coaching staffs aren't always right and coaches don't always do what needs to be done for a team to succeed.
So maybe Tarvaris isn't ready, and maybe I don't know that, but I do know watching our offense makes me physically ill and Childress is doing jacksh*t in the way of personnel or playcalling to fix it.

Is Tarvaris Jackson "ready"?
Maybe not, I can only go off of what I've seen from him in the preseason.
But I can tell you right now, realizing that we are not getting it done at the QB position does not make me a "Maddenfan".
If you knew anything you would know that Tarvaris Jackson sucks in Madden anyway...so maybe that makes all you Pro-Brad anti-Jackson fans the REAL maddenfans.


Just a matter of time before some genius says that just because you don't think it's a good time to start Tarvaris you are all of a sudden anti-Tarvaris.
That is ludicrous.
Do you see him practice every day on the field?
Do you know where he stands in his development?
Just the fact that your thinking is so myopic that you think the problems are one-dimensional and the time-span of thinking is one-game deep or one-season deep is enough of a reason for me to question your judgement.
The coaches are working in something they have been doing their whole life, coaching.
When you're doing whatever it is you do during the day they are watching tape, analyzing plays, developing strategies to the point that they are dreaming about it.
When Tarvaris starts I'll want him to succeed.
I'm not there every day analyzing the situation, but based on the history, the size of the school and the competitiion-level he has played in it is highly unlikely that he is ready.
If you think beating up on 2nd string and primarily 3rd and 4th string players in a preseason game (most of which are sitting at home now) is reason enough to deem him a starter then more power to you.

Zeus
11-06-2006, 09:40 PM
"Acumen" wrote:


*snip*


You're in need of a timeout, young man.

=Z=

6-KINGS
11-06-2006, 09:48 PM
Plain and simple.
There is no tomorrow!

ALL IS LOST!!!

REPENT!!!

Prophet
11-06-2006, 09:55 PM
"6-KINGS" wrote:


Plain and simple.
There is no tomorrow!

ALL IS LOST!!!

REPENT!!!


Oh oh.
Who do we repent to?
Tarvaris Jackson?

Bdubya
11-06-2006, 09:58 PM
"Acumen" wrote:


"6-KINGS" wrote:


Plain and simple.
There is no tomorrow!

ALL IS LOST!!!

REPENT!!!


Oh oh.
Who do we repent to?
Tarvaris Jackson?


He would save us.
;D

Zeus
11-06-2006, 09:59 PM
"Acumen" wrote:


"6-KINGS" wrote:


Plain and simple.
There is no tomorrow!

ALL IS LOST!!!

REPENT!!!


Oh oh.
Who do we repent to?
Tarvaris Jackson?


I thought I saw the image of Jesus in my toast this morning.

And then I realized it was Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=
VOTE TOMORROW.

ItalianStallion
11-06-2006, 10:00 PM
I'm not saying our coaches don't spend lots of time gamplanning, or that they aren't experts.
I'm just saying, coaches are not always right.
So while they may be in the best position the judge the progression of a player, they haven't been doing their job in as far as our on-field product.
So excuse me if I don't defer to their expert knowledge, when I've seen it in action.

Like I said, maybe Tarvaris isn't ready, and maybe Brad will get the job done.
Or maybe I just prefer my myopic point of view over this one...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/djpadula/Ostrich20head20in20sand.jpg

Prophet
11-06-2006, 10:00 PM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


"6-KINGS" wrote:


Plain and simple.
There is no tomorrow!

ALL IS LOST!!!

REPENT!!!


Oh oh.
Who do we repent to?
Tarvaris Jackson?


I thought I saw the image of Jesus in my toast this morning.

And then I realized it was Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=
VOTE TOMORROW.


I saw that on e-bay!
I was bidding on it, but the NFLPA locked the thread up.

Zeus
11-06-2006, 10:01 PM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


"6-KINGS" wrote:


Plain and simple.
There is no tomorrow!

ALL IS LOST!!!

REPENT!!!


Oh oh.
Who do we repent to?
Tarvaris Jackson?


I thought I saw the image of Jesus in my toast this morning.

And then I realized it was Tarvaris Jackson.

=Z=
VOTE TOMORROW.


See what I mean?

http://www.thedavecave.us/caveweb/images/i_net/rkive0706/jesustoast.jpg

=Z=
VOTE TOMORROW.

Prophet
11-06-2006, 10:01 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


I'm not saying our coaches don't spend lots of time gamplanning, or that they aren't experts.
I'm just saying, coaches are not always right.
So while they may be in the best position the judge the progression of a player, they haven't been doing their job in as far as our on-field product.
So excuse me if I don't defer to their expert knowledge, when I've seen it in action.

Like I said, maybe Tarvaris isn't ready, and maybe Brad will get the job, or maybe I just prefer my myopic point of view to this one...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/djpadula/Ostrich20head20in20sand.jpg


I like my myopic point of view too.
In the end, he will probably get the start...sometime and if he does well we'll both be happy.

Marrdro
11-07-2006, 08:16 AM
"Mr" wrote:


Pick up a RT like, Wayne Gandy, Leonard Davis, or Max Starks(Crossing my fingers for starks) move Johnson to GUARD GUARD GUARD, that is the position he played in college, and was the best college guard in the draft that year, but we moved him out of position. That will solidify the line 100%.

Wide receiver is an obvious weakness, I think there will definitely be a good receiver available in the draft when we're picking this year, depending on how many go pro, Johnson, Jarret(SP),Ginn, Samardzija(sucks I dont want him), or Paul Williams from Fresno State.
There are truly no wide receivers worth picking up in FA this season, so I'd count that out.

RB-We're fine.
OL-I mentioned
QB- Expect something to happen if we're eliminated from playoff contention.
WR- I mentioned.
FB- Excellent
TE- No big play guy, but we get the job done between Wiggy, and Kleinsasser.

Defense, cue hakuna-matata(it means no worries)




Hopefully we will use a pick on QB again next year or get someone in Free agency.

Johnson - Age, Arm Strength, Mobility all in question.
Bollinger - Nuff said.
Jackson - No one knows.
Supposed to be a 2-3 year project.
Looked good in pre-season.
The staff said he was learning much faster than expected.

singersp
11-07-2006, 08:44 AM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


Pick up a RT like, Wayne Gandy, Leonard Davis, or Max Starks(Crossing my fingers for starks) move Johnson to GUARD GUARD GUARD, that is the position he played in college, and was the best college guard in the draft that year, but we moved him out of position. That will solidify the line 100%.

Wide receiver is an obvious weakness, I think there will definitely be a good receiver available in the draft when we're picking this year, depending on how many go pro, Johnson, Jarret(SP),Ginn, Samardzija(sucks I dont want him), or Paul Williams from Fresno State.
There are truly no wide receivers worth picking up in FA this season, so I'd count that out.

RB-We're fine.
OL-I mentioned
QB- Expect something to happen if we're eliminated from playoff contention.
WR- I mentioned.
FB- Excellent
TE- No big play guy, but we get the job done between Wiggy, and Kleinsasser.

Defense, cue hakuna-matata(it means no worries)




Hopefully we will use a pick on QB again next year or get someone in Free agency.

Johnson - Age, Arm Strength, Mobility all in question.
Bollinger - Nuff said.
Jackson - No one knows.
Supposed to be a 2-3 year project.
Looked good in pre-season.
The staff said he was learning much faster than expected.





:-\ 8 weeks into the season, with 8 games left to play & we have fans talking about & looking forward to the draft.

Marrdro
11-07-2006, 11:57 AM
"singersp" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


Pick up a RT like, Wayne Gandy, Leonard Davis, or Max Starks(Crossing my fingers for starks) move Johnson to GUARD GUARD GUARD, that is the position he played in college, and was the best college guard in the draft that year, but we moved him out of position. That will solidify the line 100%.

Wide receiver is an obvious weakness, I think there will definitely be a good receiver available in the draft when we're picking this year, depending on how many go pro, Johnson, Jarret(SP),Ginn, Samardzija(sucks I dont want him), or Paul Williams from Fresno State.
There are truly no wide receivers worth picking up in FA this season, so I'd count that out.

RB-We're fine.
OL-I mentioned
QB- Expect something to happen if we're eliminated from playoff contention.
WR- I mentioned.
FB- Excellent
TE- No big play guy, but we get the job done between Wiggy, and Kleinsasser.

Defense, cue hakuna-matata(it means no worries)




Hopefully we will use a pick on QB again next year or get someone in Free agency.

Johnson - Age, Arm Strength, Mobility all in question.
Bollinger - Nuff said.
Jackson - No one knows.
Supposed to be a 2-3 year project.
Looked good in pre-season.
The staff said he was learning much faster than expected.





:-\ 8 weeks into the season, with 8 games left to play & we have fans talking about & looking forward to the draft.




Sorry Singer, my hope and prayers can only do so much Coronas arent helping anymore and we still have 8 weeks left to go.
Have to grasp for any straw I can. ;D

JDogg926
11-07-2006, 12:51 PM
If the offense doesn't start to get in snych (hopefully they will), I'd say rather than starting Tarvaris next year, we should look at a signing a couple different QB's for 2 or 3 years:

Damon Huard
Byron Leftwich (it looks like he lost his starting job)
Billy Volek

Not sure how much of an upgrade either would be over Johnson, but if he continues to play like he has (and I know it's not nearly all his fault), I think either one of these guys makes sense.

Ltrey33
11-07-2006, 01:03 PM
"tb04512" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


The cumulative years of coaching experience of our coaching staff is greater than the number of years most of you have been alive.
It Tarvaris Jackson was ready he would be playing.
It you can't handle that reality then stick to the video games.


but at least in the video game we win... hahaha, maybe he is still nursing the injury but i think this offense really needs a mobile qb


Mobility isn't just athletic ability or the ability to run. Mobility has a lot to do with being able to use your legs to create time, to move in the pocket and pick your spots when it is time to run. McNabb used to be a great running quarterback, but it took him 4 or 5 years to truly develop his mobility. Now he uses his mobility to become a better passer.

If Tarvaris goes in now, he'll be dead meat. Right now, I doubt that Tarvaris is far enough along in the system to be able to move in the pocket and still be able to go through his progressions and find receivers. I think all you'd get is a quaterback that is always running or always on his back if you put him in now. IMO, he wouldn't learn anything from that.

ItalianStallion
11-07-2006, 02:47 PM
"Ltrey33" wrote:


"tb04512" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


The cumulative years of coaching experience of our coaching staff is greater than the number of years most of you have been alive.
It Tarvaris Jackson was ready he would be playing.
It you can't handle that reality then stick to the video games.


but at least in the video game we win... hahaha, maybe he is still nursing the injury but i think this offense really needs a mobile qb


Mobility isn't just athletic ability or the ability to run. Mobility has a lot to do with being able to use your legs to create time, to move in the pocket and pick your spots when it is time to run. McNabb used to be a great running quarterback, but it took him 4 or 5 years to truly develop his mobility. Now he uses his mobility to become a better passer.

If Tarvaris goes in now, he'll be dead meat. Right now, I doubt that Tarvaris is far enough along in the system to be able to move in the pocket and still be able to go through his progressions and find receivers. I think all you'd get is a quaterback that is always running or always on his back if you put him in now. IMO, he wouldn't learn anything from that.


You said it yourself that Donovan took time to learn how to use his mobility best.
Donovan played his first year.
You seem to think Tarvaris couldn't develop or learn the same way?
What does Donovan have that Tarvaris doesn't?
What better way to learn to use your mobility and go through your progressions than in a live game situation?

Are you expecting Tarvaris to learn what McNabb has learned through playing by sitting on the bench reading his playbook?

Right now I would take a running QB with no "mobility" over a QB with no running ability OR mobility.

Mr Anderson
11-07-2006, 03:54 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Ltrey33" wrote:


"tb04512" wrote:


"Acumen" wrote:


The cumulative years of coaching experience of our coaching staff is greater than the number of years most of you have been alive.
It Tarvaris Jackson was ready he would be playing.
It you can't handle that reality then stick to the video games.


but at least in the video game we win... hahaha, maybe he is still nursing the injury but i think this offense really needs a mobile qb


Mobility isn't just athletic ability or the ability to run. Mobility has a lot to do with being able to use your legs to create time, to move in the pocket and pick your spots when it is time to run. McNabb used to be a great running quarterback, but it took him 4 or 5 years to truly develop his mobility. Now he uses his mobility to become a better passer.

If Tarvaris goes in now, he'll be dead meat. Right now, I doubt that Tarvaris is far enough along in the system to be able to move in the pocket and still be able to go through his progressions and find receivers. I think all you'd get is a quaterback that is always running or always on his back if you put him in now. IMO, he wouldn't learn anything from that.


You said it yourself that Donovan took time to learn how to use his mobility best.
Donovan played his first year.
You seem to think Tarvaris couldn't develop or learn the same way?
What does Donovan have that Tarvaris doesn't?
What better way to learn to use your mobility and go through your progressions than in a live game situation?

Are you expecting Tarvaris to learn what McNabb has learned through playing by sitting on the bench reading his playbook?

Right now I would take a running QB with no "mobility" over a QB with no running ability OR mobility.


I couldnt agree anymore, very well said.

Zeus
11-07-2006, 04:15 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


You said it yourself that Donovan took time to learn how to use his mobility best.
Donovan played his first year.
You seem to think Tarvaris couldn't develop or learn the same way?
What does Donovan have that Tarvaris doesn't?
What better way to learn to use your mobility and go through your progressions than in a live game situation?


Donovan played with great success for a big-time (at the time) Division I-A school.
Tarvaris played with middling success for a middling Division I-AA school.


That right there says much about the level at which both started their journey to being a pro.

=Z=

ItalianStallion
11-07-2006, 06:01 PM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


You said it yourself that Donovan took time to learn how to use his mobility best.
Donovan played his first year.
You seem to think Tarvaris couldn't develop or learn the same way?
What does Donovan have that Tarvaris doesn't?
What better way to learn to use your mobility and go through your progressions than in a live game situation?


Donovan played with great success for a big-time (at the time) Division I-A school.
Tarvaris played with middling success for a middling Division I-AA school.


That right there says much about the level at which both started their journey to being a pro.

=Z=


Tarvaris threw for 2941 yards, 29 TDs to 5 Ints, with a 60.9% completion percentage last year.

AS a senior at syracuse, McNabb threw 2134 yards, 22TDs to 5 INTs with a 62.5% completion percentage.

Looks like similar success in university, at least from an individual standpoint.
Sure, Tarvaris was against weaker competition, but so was his surrounding cast.

Where you start has little bearing on where you can go, this has been disproven many times.
It might affect how fast you get there, but give him at least a SHOT to get there.

Prophet
11-07-2006, 06:21 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"AWZeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


You said it yourself that Donovan took time to learn how to use his mobility best.
Donovan played his first year.
You seem to think Tarvaris couldn't develop or learn the same way?
What does Donovan have that Tarvaris doesn't?
What better way to learn to use your mobility and go through your progressions than in a live game situation?


Donovan played with great success for a big-time (at the time) Division I-A school.
Tarvaris played with middling success for a middling Division I-AA school.


That right there says much about the level at which both started their journey to being a pro.

=Z=


Tarvaris threw for 2941 yards, 29 TDs to 5 Ints, with a 60.9% completion percentage last year.

AS a senior at syracuse, McNabb threw 2134 yards, 22TDs to 5 INTs with a 62.5% completion percentage.

Looks like similar success in university, at least from an individual standpoint.
Sure, Tarvaris was against weaker competition, but so was his surrounding cast.

Where you start has little bearing on where you can go, this has been disproven many times.
It might affect how fast you get there, but give him at least a SHOT to get there.


What I don't understand is why you even think he's not being given a shot to get there.
Tarvaris, in his own words, was surprised and thrilled to be taken so high in the draft.
They are grooming him and giving him his shot WHEN THE COACHING STAFF THINKS HE IS READY.

ItalianStallion
11-07-2006, 06:30 PM
I'm not ignorant, I know Tarvaris has no chance of playing this year unless Brad and Brooks go down.
I'm just here to say that draft position and school likely play a very small part in how someone develps as a pro.

Mr Anderson
11-07-2006, 06:33 PM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


You said it yourself that Donovan took time to learn how to use his mobility best.
Donovan played his first year.
You seem to think Tarvaris couldn't develop or learn the same way?
What does Donovan have that Tarvaris doesn't?
What better way to learn to use your mobility and go through your progressions than in a live game situation?


Donovan played with great success for a big-time (at the time) Division I-A school.
Tarvaris played with middling success for a middling Division I-AA school.


That right there says much about the level at which both started their journey to being a pro.

=Z=


McNabb played for Syracuse. Not such a great football school.

Zeus
11-08-2006, 08:36 AM
"Mr" wrote:


"AWZeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


You said it yourself that Donovan took time to learn how to use his mobility best.
Donovan played his first year.
You seem to think Tarvaris couldn't develop or learn the same way?
What does Donovan have that Tarvaris doesn't?
What better way to learn to use your mobility and go through your progressions than in a live game situation?


Donovan played with great success for a big-time (at the time) Division I-A school.
Tarvaris played with middling success for a middling Division I-AA school.


That right there says much about the level at which both started their journey to being a pro.

=Z=


McNabb played for Syracuse. Not such a great football school.


It was when Donovan played there.
And Syracuse, while terrible now, has a LONG tradition of being a top-tier football school.
Ever heard of a man named Jim Brown?

=Z=

Del Rio
11-08-2006, 08:43 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


I'm not ignorant, I know Tarvaris has no chance of playing this year unless Brad and Brooks go down.
I'm just here to say that draft position and school likely play a very small part in how someone develps as a pro.


History suggests otherwise. Rich Gannon is about all you have to hang your hat on when it comes to Div I AA, and when I say all you have that's the truth. The vast majority never ammount to anything as far as NFL QB's are concerned.

Not saying he can't, just saying odds are against him. That and him being #3 on the depth chart makes me wonder if he will ever see the field in anything other then Preseason.

Del Rio
11-08-2006, 08:46 AM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"AWZeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


You said it yourself that Donovan took time to learn how to use his mobility best.
Donovan played his first year.
You seem to think Tarvaris couldn't develop or learn the same way?
What does Donovan have that Tarvaris doesn't?
What better way to learn to use your mobility and go through your progressions than in a live game situation?


Donovan played with great success for a big-time (at the time) Division I-A school.
Tarvaris played with middling success for a middling Division I-AA school.


That right there says much about the level at which both started their journey to being a pro.

=Z=


McNabb played for Syracuse. Not such a great football school.


It was when Donovan played there.
And Syracuse, while terrible now, has a LONG tradition of being a top-tier football school.
Ever heard of a man named Jim Brown?

=Z=


I agree Syracuse has a deep history of success in athletics. However even if it didn't who cares? DIV-I you are going againt the best of the best.

That being said for a guy to get drafted into the NFL from Div I-AA at QB is an accomplishment all in itself.

Zeus
11-08-2006, 08:55 AM
"Del" wrote:


I agree Syracuse has a deep history of success in athletics. However even if it didn't who cares? DIV-I you are going againt the best of the best.

That being said for a guy to get drafted into the NFL from Div I-AA at QB is an accomplishment all in itself.


Absolutely it is.
And two of the three greatest offensive football players of all time came from Div-IAA schools in Walter Payton and Jerry Rice (with Jimmy Brown being the 3rd, IMHO).


I was bringing up Syracuse as a Div-I school merely to postulate that McNabb started a degree farther down the road to being a successful NFL QB by virtue of having gone there and played against Big East competition like Boston College and WVU.

=Z=

2beersTommy
11-08-2006, 09:07 AM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Mr" wrote:


"AWZeus" wrote:


"ItalianStallion" wrote:


You said it yourself that Donovan took time to learn how to use his mobility best.
Donovan played his first year.
You seem to think Tarvaris couldn't develop or learn the same way?
What does Donovan have that Tarvaris doesn't?
What better way to learn to use your mobility and go through your progressions than in a live game situation?


Donovan played with great success for a big-time (at the time) Division I-A school.
Tarvaris played with middling success for a middling Division I-AA school.


That right there says much about the level at which both started their journey to being a pro.

=Z=


McNabb played for Syracuse. Not such a great football school.


It was when Donovan played there.
And Syracuse, while terrible now, has a LONG tradition of being a top-tier football school.
Ever heard of a man named Jim Brown?

=Z=


Being very close to Sorrycuse, the football program has produced some great players, but far and few between on team play. This town is a basketball town, football at up on the "Hill', doesnt even come close. The football program in fact has produced the following statement.."You cant spell SUck, without SU" nice eh? lol
:P

Del Rio
11-08-2006, 09:08 AM
"AWZeus" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


I agree Syracuse has a deep history of success in athletics. However even if it didn't who cares? DIV-I you are going againt the best of the best.

That being said for a guy to get drafted into the NFL from Div I-AA at QB is an accomplishment all in itself.


Absolutely it is.
And two of the three greatest offensive football players of all time came from Div-IAA schools in Walter Payton and Jerry Rice (with Jimmy Brown being the 3rd, IMHO).


I was bringing up Syracuse as a Div-I school merely to postulate that McNabb started a degree farther down the road to being a successful NFL QB by virtue of having gone there and played against Big East competition like Boston College and WVU.

=Z=


I agree, he was further developed just by playing in DIV-I getting exposed to better athletes and coaches.

ItalianStallion
11-08-2006, 09:54 AM
On the other hand, Tarvaris hasn't played with or against Div IAA players in around a year.
He has spent the past 6 months learning, practicing, scrimmaging an playing with NFL players at an NFL speed.
Granted a regular season game might be a bit of a shock, but that's the only way to get used to it.

Didn't Steve McNair come from Div IAA too Del?

Prophet
11-08-2006, 09:59 AM
McNair came from Alcorn state I think, right down the road from me.
I also think he didn't start his first year.
I guarantee, after going to Alcorn games and SEC games that the level of competition isn't even on the same planet.

That being said, he can succeed, but it's an uphill battle (can be said for most rooks) but there is no way you can compare the likes of Peyton Manning at Ole Miss or Vince Young and their levels of college playing to the 1AA schools.


One of the things that hasn't been mentioned is that sometimes people choose to go to smaller schools for an array of other reasons.
There are professors that are world renowned that could easily be at a Harvard or Yale but choose to do their research/teaching at smaller universities because of the quality of life.
There is no reason to think that that could not be the case for athletes too (family illness, girlfriend, etc.)

Del Rio
11-08-2006, 10:01 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


On the other hand, Tarvaris hasn't played with or against Div IAA players in around a year.
He has spent the past 6 months learning, practicing, scrimmaging an playing with NFL players at an NFL speed.
Granted a regular season game might be a bit of a shock, but that's the only way to get used to it.

Didn't Steve McNair come from Div IAA too Del?


This is the list I have seen:

YEAR
ROUND
SELECTION
NAME


COLLEGE

1982
6
154
Mike Machurek
QB
Idaho State
11
291
Bob Holly
QB
Princeton
11
296
Steve Sandon
QB
Northern Iowa

1983
1
24
Ken O'Brien
QB
Cal-Davis
5
137
Jeff ChristensenQB
Eastern Illinois
12
333
Scott Lindquist
QB
Northern Arizona

1984
6
168
Scott Barry
QB
Cal-Davis
9
232
Steve Calabria
QB
Colgate

1987
4
98
Rich Gannon
QB
Delaware
7
186
Doug Hudson
QB
Nicholls State
9
232
Ken Lambiotte
QB
William & Mary
11
295
Brent Pease
QB
Montana




1989
4
102
Jeff Carlson
QB
Weber State
8
202
Paul Singer
QB
Western Illinois
10
278
Bob Jean
QB
New Hampshire

1990
6
156
Mike Buck
QB
Maine
11
296
Clemente Gordon
QB
Grambling
12
307
Todd Hammel
QB
Stephen F. Austin
12
311
Gene Benhart
QB
Western Illinois

1991
12
309
Jeff Bridewell
QB
Cal-Davis

1992
4
112
Chris Hakel
QB
William & Mary

1994
7
198
Jay Walker
QB
Howard

1996
6
205
Mike Cawley
QB
James Madison

1997
6
171
Mike Cherry
QB
Murray State
7
237
Tony Corbin
QB
Sacramento State

1999
5
151
Kevin Daft
QB
Cal-Davis

2000
3
65
Giovanni Carmazzi
QB
Hofstra
6
205
JaJuan Seider
QB
Florida A&M

2002
3
81
Josh McCown
QB
Sam Houston State

6
186
J.T. O'Sullivan
QB
Cal-Davis
7
216
Seth Burford
QB
Cal Poly-SLO
7
236
Wes Pate
QB
Stephen F. Austin

2005
7
250
Ryan Fitzpatrick
QB
Harvard

Del Rio
11-08-2006, 10:05 AM
Here is more on Mcnair:

McNair is a native of Mississippi and played collegiately in that state for Alcorn State University, a historically black university which competes in the NCAA's Division I-AA Southwestern Athletic Conference (SWAC). Many major colleges also recruited McNair to play defensive back. Alcorn State University was one of the few institutions that recruited McNair to play quarterback. Steve followed the foot steps of his older brother Fred McNair (who played at Alcorn 1986-1989, and later played 10 years in the Arena Football League) and decided to attend Alcorn State University.

In his senior season (1994) he amassed incredible statistics, including over 4,000 yards passing and 2,000 yards rushing. He finished third in the voting for the Heisman Trophy, which is unusual for a player from Division I-AA.

In other words he was really really really good LMAO.

ItalianStallion
11-08-2006, 10:08 AM
"Del" wrote:


Here is more on Mcnair:

McNair is a native of Mississippi and played collegiately in that state for Alcorn State University, a historically black university which competes in the NCAA's Division I-AA Southwestern Athletic Conference (SWAC). Many major colleges also recruited McNair to play defensive back. Alcorn State University was one of the few institutions that recruited McNair to play quarterback. Steve followed the foot steps of his older brother Fred McNair (who played at Alcorn 1986-1989, and later played 10 years in the Arena Football League) and decided to attend Alcorn State University.

In his senior season (1994) he amassed incredible statistics, including over 4,000 yards passing and 2,000 yards rushing. He finished third in the voting for the Heisman Trophy, which is unusual for a player from Division I-AA.

In other words he was really really really good LMAO.


Lol, he ran for 2000 yards in one season as a QB?
:o

Prophet
11-08-2006, 10:11 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Here is more on Mcnair:

McNair is a native of Mississippi and played collegiately in that state for Alcorn State University, a historically black university which competes in the NCAA's Division I-AA Southwestern Athletic Conference (SWAC). Many major colleges also recruited McNair to play defensive back. Alcorn State University was one of the few institutions that recruited McNair to play quarterback. Steve followed the foot steps of his older brother Fred McNair (who played at Alcorn 1986-1989, and later played 10 years in the Arena Football League) and decided to attend Alcorn State University.

In his senior season (1994) he amassed incredible statistics, including over 4,000 yards passing and 2,000 yards rushing. He finished third in the voting for the Heisman Trophy, which is unusual for a player from Division I-AA.

In other words he was really really really good LMAO.


Lol, he ran for 2000 yards in one season as a QB?
:o


That is incredible.
The bottom-line, I'm guessing, is that he would have been the Heisman winner if he was playing in Division
1A.
Who were the guys before him that year?

McNair is a trooper, one of my favorite QBs of all time.

Del Rio
11-08-2006, 10:12 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Here is more on Mcnair:

McNair is a native of Mississippi and played collegiately in that state for Alcorn State University, a historically black university which competes in the NCAA's Division I-AA Southwestern Athletic Conference (SWAC). Many major colleges also recruited McNair to play defensive back. Alcorn State University was one of the few institutions that recruited McNair to play quarterback. Steve followed the foot steps of his older brother Fred McNair (who played at Alcorn 1986-1989, and later played 10 years in the Arena Football League) and decided to attend Alcorn State University.

In his senior season (1994) he amassed incredible statistics, including over 4,000 yards passing and 2,000 yards rushing. He finished third in the voting for the Heisman Trophy, which is unusual for a player from Division I-AA.

In other words he was really really really good LMAO.


Lol, he ran for 2000 yards in one season as a QB?
:o


That is what I was saying! WOW! LOL!

Del Rio
11-08-2006, 10:15 AM
Here is more on Tarvaris.

Tarvaris Jackson is a current American Football quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings. He was the first Alabama State University quarterback drafted into the NFL since Ricky Jones in 1992.

His pick in the 2006 NFL Draft caused some controversy since he was the first Division I-AA pick of the draft (the last quarterback drafted from his division was Spergon Wynn in 2000), he was picked in the 2nd round (64th overall) when he was projected to go much later in the 4th-7th rounds, and the Vikings used two 3rd round picks to get the 2nd round pick they drafted Jackson with (fearing he may get picked sooner than anticipated). Even Jackson was surprised by the pick saying, "I was more focused on [getting drafted in] the third round and even that was stretching it".[1] Most publications didn't even have him listed as one of the top 10 eligible quarterbacks, while he was the 5th selected.

Vikings coach Brad Childress was quoted days before the draft as saying he was interested in finding a "developmental guy", a "diamond in the rough" quarterback of the future, raw talent he could teach a system to.[2] Both new coach Childress and Vikings veteran quarterback Brad Johnson have had a lot of success developing quarterbacks in the past - A.J. Feeley and Donovan McNabb owe a lot of their success to Childress, and Chris Simms says Johnson was the best tutor he's ever had. The use of two 3rd round picks showed how much they felt Tarvaris was the guy they wanted to develop. Jackson's quarterbacks coach at Alabama State, Reggie Barlow, played wide receiver with Brad Johnson over at Tampa Bay so Tarvaris had been looking forward to learning from him.

Jackson played in the more competitive Division I-A during the 2001 season and part of 2002 while attending the University of Arkansas. A shoulder injuries kept him from being a full time starter and when it was decided Matt Jones would start at quarterback instead of him, he transferred to the less competitive Division I-AA at the historically black college Alabama State where each season his performance steadily improved. During Jackson's senior year, he amassed 2,655 yards, 25 touchdowns, and only 5 interceptions with a 61.1% completion rate (although he did not face very tough competition). The Vikings scouting and personnel had reportedly been watching him closely in secret over his senior season, particularly liking his performance in the East-West Shrine Game. They were also impressed by his workout at the scouting combine (among the top-5 quarterbacks in ball speed and 40 yard dash). Several NFL teams including the Vikings had arranged secret workouts with him too.

The day after the draft Vikings coach Childress was quoted by the St. Paul Pioneer Press as saying: "I think you judge quarterbacks a little bit differently...When you see what you want at the quarterback position, you need to go get it. And that's exactly what I see with Tarvaris Jackson is a guy that's a piece of clay, that has all the skills in terms of, No. 1, what's he look like throwing the football?...He's got a great throwing motion; he's athletic. He has all those things that we're looking for, and he's wired right. That's important for a quarterback. I think he's a flatline guy. I think he's a sponge. You're talking about a guy that never had a coach there as a quarterback coach. So what can he do with coaching?"[3] Jackson's agent, Joel Segal, said: "After the draft, there were two clubs that expressed disappointment and were mad they didn't get him. They were planning to take (Jackson) very high in the third round, and were lamenting the fact that the Vikings beat them".

On July 26, 2006, Jackson signed a four year deal with Minnesota, including a $1 million signing bonus.[4]

Jackson's 2006 pre-season passer rating was 106.1, 15th in the league out of 110 quarterbacks who performed. Only one quarterback from his draft class (Jay Cutler) did better. He also showed great scrambling skills averaging 11.3 yards in rushing (the only Viking other than Brad Johnson to average more than 3.3 yards in rushing). ESPN analyst Mike Tirico referred to Jackson as a right handed Michael Vick. His pre-season performance was enough to surpass 2nd and 3rd string QBs Mike McMahon and J.T. O'Sullivan on the depth chart. After the pre-season, McMahon and O'Sullivan were cut from the team and Brooks Bollinger was brought in, who Jackson will be competing against for the number two spot.

Tarvaris Jackson's name is commonly misspelled as 'Tavaris' or 'Tavarius'. Jackson's current jersey is number 7.

On September 25, 2006, Tarvaris Jackson had minor knee surgery to repair his meniscus and is supposed to miss 4-6 weeks. He returned to limited practice after two weeks, but is expected to be rehabilitating the remainder of the year


Looks like my Fran Foley conspiracy theory is wrong, and from this take it looks like the only reason Tarvaris is 3rd string is he is healing and will be healing for the remainder of the season.

If he is the future, then I would say do not play him until he is healed. Maybe that is all it boils down to is he is not healthy like some of you have suggested.

Prophet
11-08-2006, 10:24 AM
"Del" wrote:


Here is more on Tarvaris.

Tarvaris Jackson is a current American Football quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings. He was the first Alabama State University quarterback drafted into the NFL since Ricky Jones in 1992.

His pick in the 2006 NFL Draft caused some controversy since he was the first Division I-AA pick of the draft (the last quarterback drafted from his division was Spergon Wynn in 2000), he was picked in the 2nd round (64th overall) when he was projected to go much later in the 4th-7th rounds, and the Vikings used two 3rd round picks to get the 2nd round pick they drafted Jackson with (fearing he may get picked sooner than anticipated). Even Jackson was surprised by the pick saying, "I was more focused on [getting drafted in] the third round and even that was stretching it".[1] Most publications didn't even have him listed as one of the top 10 eligible quarterbacks, while he was the 5th selected.

Vikings coach Brad Childress was quoted days before the draft as saying he was interested in finding a "developmental guy", a "diamond in the rough" quarterback of the future, raw talent he could teach a system to.[2] Both new coach Childress and Vikings veteran quarterback Brad Johnson have had a lot of success developing quarterbacks in the past - A.J. Feeley and Donovan McNabb owe a lot of their success to Childress, and Chris Simms says Johnson was the best tutor he's ever had. The use of two 3rd round picks showed how much they felt Tarvaris was the guy they wanted to develop. Jackson's quarterbacks coach at Alabama State, Reggie Barlow, played wide receiver with Brad Johnson over at Tampa Bay so Tarvaris had been looking forward to learning from him.

Jackson played in the more competitive Division I-A during the 2001 season and part of 2002 while attending the University of Arkansas. A shoulder injuries kept him from being a full time starter and when it was decided Matt Jones would start at quarterback instead of him, he transferred to the less competitive Division I-AA at the historically black college Alabama State where each season his performance steadily improved. During Jackson's senior year, he amassed 2,655 yards, 25 touchdowns, and only 5 interceptions with a 61.1% completion rate (although he did not face very tough competition). The Vikings scouting and personnel had reportedly been watching him closely in secret over his senior season, particularly liking his performance in the East-West Shrine Game. They were also impressed by his workout at the scouting combine (among the top-5 quarterbacks in ball speed and 40 yard dash). Several NFL teams including the Vikings had arranged secret workouts with him too.

The day after the draft Vikings coach Childress was quoted by the St. Paul Pioneer Press as saying: "I think you judge quarterbacks a little bit differently...When you see what you want at the quarterback position, you need to go get it. And that's exactly what I see with Tarvaris Jackson is a guy that's a piece of clay, that has all the skills in terms of, No. 1, what's he look like throwing the football?...He's got a great throwing motion; he's athletic. He has all those things that we're looking for, and he's wired right. That's important for a quarterback. I think he's a flatline guy. I think he's a sponge. You're talking about a guy that never had a coach there as a quarterback coach. So what can he do with coaching?"[3] Jackson's agent, Joel Segal, said: "After the draft, there were two clubs that expressed disappointment and were mad they didn't get him. They were planning to take (Jackson) very high in the third round, and were lamenting the fact that the Vikings beat them".

On July 26, 2006, Jackson signed a four year deal with Minnesota, including a $1 million signing bonus.[4]

Jackson's 2006 pre-season passer rating was 106.1, 15th in the league out of 110 quarterbacks who performed. Only one quarterback from his draft class (Jay Cutler) did better. He also showed great scrambling skills averaging 11.3 yards in rushing (the only Viking other than Brad Johnson to average more than 3.3 yards in rushing). ESPN analyst Mike Tirico referred to Jackson as a right handed Michael Vick. His pre-season performance was enough to surpass 2nd and 3rd string QBs Mike McMahon and J.T. O'Sullivan on the depth chart. After the pre-season, McMahon and O'Sullivan were cut from the team and Brooks Bollinger was brought in, who Jackson will be competing against for the number two spot.

Tarvaris Jackson's name is commonly misspelled as 'Tavaris' or 'Tavarius'. Jackson's current jersey is number 7.

On September 25, 2006, Tarvaris Jackson had minor knee surgery to repair his meniscus and is supposed to miss 4-6 weeks. He returned to limited practice after two weeks, but is expected to be rehabilitating the remainder of the year


Looks like my Fran Foley conspiracy theory is wrong, and from this take it looks like the only reason Tarvaris is 3rd string is he is healing and will be healing for the remainder of the season.

If he is the future, then I would say do not play him until he is healed. Maybe that is all it boils down to is he is not healthy like some of you have suggested.


WTF didn't you post this earlier, you asshole!
This sums up everything.

What bothers me the most is the people calling out Childress as "I thought he was suppose to be a QB developer guy...." when that is what he is doing with Tarvaris.
If Childress sticks with Tarvaris and deems him the starter in the future and he sucks then it is time to question Childress' QB development abilities.

Del Rio
11-08-2006, 10:36 AM
"Acumen" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Here is more on Tarvaris.

Tarvaris Jackson is a current American Football quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings. He was the first Alabama State University quarterback drafted into the NFL since Ricky Jones in 1992.

His pick in the 2006 NFL Draft caused some controversy since he was the first Division I-AA pick of the draft (the last quarterback drafted from his division was Spergon Wynn in 2000), he was picked in the 2nd round (64th overall) when he was projected to go much later in the 4th-7th rounds, and the Vikings used two 3rd round picks to get the 2nd round pick they drafted Jackson with (fearing he may get picked sooner than anticipated). Even Jackson was surprised by the pick saying, "I was more focused on [getting drafted in] the third round and even that was stretching it".[1] Most publications didn't even have him listed as one of the top 10 eligible quarterbacks, while he was the 5th selected.

Vikings coach Brad Childress was quoted days before the draft as saying he was interested in finding a "developmental guy", a "diamond in the rough" quarterback of the future, raw talent he could teach a system to.[2] Both new coach Childress and Vikings veteran quarterback Brad Johnson have had a lot of success developing quarterbacks in the past - A.J. Feeley and Donovan McNabb owe a lot of their success to Childress, and Chris Simms says Johnson was the best tutor he's ever had. The use of two 3rd round picks showed how much they felt Tarvaris was the guy they wanted to develop. Jackson's quarterbacks coach at Alabama State, Reggie Barlow, played wide receiver with Brad Johnson over at Tampa Bay so Tarvaris had been looking forward to learning from him.

Jackson played in the more competitive Division I-A during the 2001 season and part of 2002 while attending the University of Arkansas. A shoulder injuries kept him from being a full time starter and when it was decided Matt Jones would start at quarterback instead of him, he transferred to the less competitive Division I-AA at the historically black college Alabama State where each season his performance steadily improved. During Jackson's senior year, he amassed 2,655 yards, 25 touchdowns, and only 5 interceptions with a 61.1% completion rate (although he did not face very tough competition). The Vikings scouting and personnel had reportedly been watching him closely in secret over his senior season, particularly liking his performance in the East-West Shrine Game. They were also impressed by his workout at the scouting combine (among the top-5 quarterbacks in ball speed and 40 yard dash). Several NFL teams including the Vikings had arranged secret workouts with him too.

The day after the draft Vikings coach Childress was quoted by the St. Paul Pioneer Press as saying: "I think you judge quarterbacks a little bit differently...When you see what you want at the quarterback position, you need to go get it. And that's exactly what I see with Tarvaris Jackson is a guy that's a piece of clay, that has all the skills in terms of, No. 1, what's he look like throwing the football?...He's got a great throwing motion; he's athletic. He has all those things that we're looking for, and he's wired right. That's important for a quarterback. I think he's a flatline guy. I think he's a sponge. You're talking about a guy that never had a coach there as a quarterback coach. So what can he do with coaching?"[3] Jackson's agent, Joel Segal, said: "After the draft, there were two clubs that expressed disappointment and were mad they didn't get him. They were planning to take (Jackson) very high in the third round, and were lamenting the fact that the Vikings beat them".

On July 26, 2006, Jackson signed a four year deal with Minnesota, including a $1 million signing bonus.[4]

Jackson's 2006 pre-season passer rating was 106.1, 15th in the league out of 110 quarterbacks who performed. Only one quarterback from his draft class (Jay Cutler) did better. He also showed great scrambling skills averaging 11.3 yards in rushing (the only Viking other than Brad Johnson to average more than 3.3 yards in rushing). ESPN analyst Mike Tirico referred to Jackson as a right handed Michael Vick. His pre-season performance was enough to surpass 2nd and 3rd string QBs Mike McMahon and J.T. O'Sullivan on the depth chart. After the pre-season, McMahon and O'Sullivan were cut from the team and Brooks Bollinger was brought in, who Jackson will be competing against for the number two spot.

Tarvaris Jackson's name is commonly misspelled as 'Tavaris' or 'Tavarius'. Jackson's current jersey is number 7.

On September 25, 2006, Tarvaris Jackson had minor knee surgery to repair his meniscus and is supposed to miss 4-6 weeks. He returned to limited practice after two weeks, but is expected to be rehabilitating the remainder of the year


Looks like my Fran Foley conspiracy theory is wrong, and from this take it looks like the only reason Tarvaris is 3rd string is he is healing and will be healing for the remainder of the season.

If he is the future, then I would say do not play him until he is healed. Maybe that is all it boils down to is he is not healthy like some of you have suggested.


WTF didn't you post this earlier, you donkey butt!
This sums up everything.

What bothers me the most is the people calling out Childress as "I thought he was suppose to be a QB developer guy...." when that is what he is doing with Tarvaris.
If Childress sticks with Tarvaris and deems him the starter in the future and he sucks then it is time to question Childress' QB development abilities.


I think people are just too impatient and eager to point a finger I guess. I didn't post it because I was talking out of my ass I decided to do some background research on #7 because the draft was a long time ago.

I think people just need to calm down. Childress gets 3-4 years IMO. Just like Tice, just like any coach we have (thats my personal timeframe) if he is worried about getting Tarvaris hurt then he may be letting the kid heal. You know Childress is stingy when it comes to injuries and personal information.

Johnson has no contract extension or raise..........perhaps he will be the tutor....who knows.