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thevikingfan
10-30-2006, 11:47 PM
Well it was a bad game overall with the offense not producing (big surprise) and the pass defense getting torched.Brad made 3 bad decisions that led to 3 picks.He was benched but the backup did no better throwing another pick to give new england 4 picks on the night.Not exactly the kind of game you would like to watch on prime time television.

I recall Early in the season that someone said what this team needs to be blown out once so that it can come together for us and hopefully we will rally from this.

The one bright spot tonight was memo he had a good night and he definatly need more touches becuz hes a playmaker.


Hopefully childress open up the offense after this game.Maybe he will finally understand that u cant run the entire game out of the i formation.

Horrible refs today with horrible calls :( but even if the calls went our way we probably wouldnt have won this one.

The pats need to consider building a dome over gellete stadium tom brady now 10-0 in domes.

And finally we should dedicate our next draft completely to offense because this is rediculous!

thoughts?

stateVIKE44
10-30-2006, 11:50 PM
There are waaaay too many bad things to talk about. But, my first thought is.....that "incomplete pass" to Wiggins that got reviewed was one of the worst I've seen in a while!

BadlandsVikings
10-30-2006, 11:51 PM
Hey at least we scored. :)

thevikingfan
10-30-2006, 11:53 PM
"WVV" wrote:


Hey at least we scored. :)


its not nice getting blown out 31 -7 :-

minvikes01
10-30-2006, 11:53 PM
the officials and our dbs screwed us up the a$$

Ltrey33
10-30-2006, 11:54 PM
We got outcoached to begin with. Tomlin just didn't seem like he could adjust to what the Patriots were throwing at him, and Belichick and that coaching staff always seemed to be one step ahead.

The offense was bad again. We came out with the wrong gameplan, IMO. I think we should have run right at them, right up the middle. Instead, we came out throwing and that's not who we are, IMO. Brad made some dumb decisions and threw 3 INTs, which is unacceptable for a QB that plays his style.

The refs decided to pile on. The offensive pass interference call, the Wiggins no catch, the no-call on the Williamson ball...it was just bad. I still think we played poorly enough to lose, but those calls were a factor as well.

At least Mewelde had a nice game. I say we find a way to get him the ball more.

vikinggreg
10-30-2006, 11:59 PM
Wheels fell off the cart, pick them up nail them back on, we have the Niners, Packers, Cards and Lions to right our offense.
Pats are a good team with a seasoned coach and well helpful refs.
Season is not over, its just a gut check.

Gift
10-30-2006, 11:59 PM
One Bright Note,

Our run defense will still be #1!

and probably will stay that way the rest of the year cuz there is really no need to run on us.

sandviking
10-31-2006, 12:03 AM
"stateVIKE44" wrote:


There are waaaay too many bad things to talk about. But, my first thought is.....that "incomplete pass" to Wiggins that got reviewed was one of the worst I've seen in a while!

Not to mention the two pass interference calls that were missed.
They could have been game changers.
It was a tough and humiliating loss none the less.

alberta_vike
10-31-2006, 12:16 AM
The offense is just not good enough for us to make any serious playoff run. I was really looking forward to this game because, win or lose, I thought it was a good chance to see what the Vikes can do against a championship caliber team.

I still like what Childress is doing with the team, and think we are headed in the right direction. We aren't there yet though.

Also, it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game one bit, but the refs were horrible, particularly on the Wiggins call. I thought that was one of the most obvious calls ever reviewed. Still not sure what that ref saw.

thevikingfan
10-31-2006, 02:04 AM
My concern is if teams who we play in the future will just try to emulate the pats and just go 5 wide on us!This is a copycat league and if everyone decides to just abandon the run and pass on us like the pats then i smell trouble...

cajunvike
10-31-2006, 02:08 AM
"thevikingfan" wrote:


My concern is if teams who we play in the future will just try to emulate the pats and just go 5 wide on us!This is a copycat league and if everyone decides to just abandon the run and pass on us like the pats then i smell trouble...


First, they have to have the personnel....second, we will adjust by putting more DBs in...and third, there aren't many teams that can't defend against 5 wide...it was a gimmick to take advantage of a weakness that Belichick saw...the holes will be filled by next week...he does the same crap against the Colts every year....but one day the Colts will solve it...and so will we!
;D

BearsFanGrrrr
10-31-2006, 02:12 AM
No worries Vikes, DA BEARS will advenge your defeat !
;D
You dropped the ball(no pun intended) but DA BEARS will make them pay for embarrassing you, on national TV !
:o
Your team was not up to the task, but do not fret, DA BEARS will knock them down a peg or two for ya !
8)
NFCN will be advenged !
;D

The Dropper
10-31-2006, 02:59 AM
Whew!
Thank goodness someone will "advenge" (sic) us! ::)

thunderheart
10-31-2006, 04:59 AM
Okay after counting backwards from 10 about 500 times I think im sufficiently cooled down now, still kinda shocked :o So what happened to the vikings that took it to the seahags last sunday??

Oh come on now thunderheart its the patriots you didn't really think you could beat the patriots did you? why YES YES I (@#*&($^ did. Kinda like in 98 when we beat the packers in the holiest of holies Lambeau field when Randy Moss made the packers secondary look sick.

I believe its all about ATTITUDE and controling the tempo of the game in your own (*^#$^(#$ stadium. I wonder what was said in the locker room at halftime??? I hope it wasn't like what Denny said to the vikes in the NFC Conference game against the giants......"Guys we just need to do the opposite of what were doing" ..........WHAT THE (*&^#$^ kinda speech is that? I saw the post game interview and thats what he said to the reporter after the game when asked what he told the team at the half... How about something positive , uplifting, inspirational?? How about "We are playing the second most important game of out lives, we win this then we get to play the biggest game of our lives the SUPER BOWL !!!! we beat this team last year in their stadium now lets go back out there and show the giants who deserves to go to the SUPER BOWL.

This game had a similiar sour taste to it when the giants played in the dome a couple of years ago. That same over cocky swagger it was like they were playing in the meadowlands, this is our house mentality. Much like tonights game ...bad play calling , poor sportsman like playing. Jeremy Shockey hitting one of our players knocking him to the ground after the whistle was blown and no penalty called. Mr. shockey even dragged one of the vikings by the back of his jersey 3 yards after the whistle was blown and no penalty called....I call that FLAGRANT ILLEGAL play. If Jeremy Shockey didn't play in the NFL he would probably be in jail. He is a dirty player plain and simple. Why Corey Dillon wasn't called for throwing the ball like he did is beyond me.

So......in closing lets get some of that attitude back we had when we beat seattle, especially in your own house. I prolly get flamed for this post with a "please read football 101" and I admit i'm no where near as knowledgeable as most who post in this forum. I'm frustrated, frustrated at what i'm seeing. 30 years of frustration wondering when this team will get it together and get to the big dance and finally win the darn thing. Win lose or draw I'll always be a fan, its in my blood, its my heritage, my family history traces its roots to Norway.

Let the Vikings lick their wounds, patch up the ship and lets play some SMASH MOUTH FOOTBALL for a change.


Quote from Braveheart "Your so busy reaching for the scraps from longshanks table that you don't see that we could have something we never have had before our own country"

JellyBean2144
10-31-2006, 06:55 AM
We got outcoached and outplayed. The Pats took us out of our gameplan. Plus, it does not help that we gave the ball away, either. The offense is still not in sync yet. The defense; pass rush was pretty good. Just needs to be more consistent. Our secondary ok at times, but not too consistent. Bottom line; we just got outplayed and coached.

VikesfaninWis
10-31-2006, 07:24 AM
The thing that hurt us the most is that we didn't have the QB or the WR's it took to compete with Brady and the Patriots.. BJ is no Tom Brady, and apparently Bethel Johnson is no anyone because they probably wouldn't have cut him then..

Someone mentioned about the officiating, what about it? They have a couple miss calls, but what they screwed up on wouldn't have made a difference in that game.. We had our chances to score and keep that game somewhat close, but BJ made stupid decisions..

Also, when I heard we were making a QB change, I thought Childress would at least make it interesting and put in T Jack.. Think about it, Bollinger is like BJ as he stays in the pocket. TJ has an arm like a cannon, and can run.. If they had to defend for both, it could have become an interesting game.. It is way to easy for opposing teams to game plan for Johnson.. Overall disappointing night to be a Viking fan..

ThorSPL
10-31-2006, 07:37 AM
Shockey plays for the Giants....

sleepagent
10-31-2006, 07:51 AM
Apparently, the Vikes of 2006 are one of the following . . .

#1.
The Great Pretenders

#2.
The AFC are fielding better prepared teams.

This pathetic red zone offense needs a major overhaul . . . Monday Night was flat out embarrasing!
:-[

twiztedfait
10-31-2006, 08:27 AM
"VikesfaninWis" wrote:


Someone mentioned about the officiating, what about it? They have a couple miss calls, but what they screwed up on wouldn't have made a difference in that game.. We had our chances to score and keep that game somewhat close, but BJ made stupid decisions..


QFT

Even I disagreed with a couple of the calls(PI against taylor, wiggens IC pass Fumble OB)
They did not cost us the game. Our team lost the game.
We couldn't put the ball in the endzone.
Our D didn't play much better.



Winning teams overcome things and adapt to the game.
Our D didn't do that last night.
That gave our O no chance.
We had to air it out to have a chance and BJ just can not play a game like that.
He simply does not have the arm to cannon the ball downfield all night long, and we do not have the WR that can do that all night long either.

They drop the ball to much, and do not do a good job of positioning themselves to block the DB out of the play.

Billicheck is a mad genious, and brady has a laser sight on his arm.
They guy could not miss last night.
Tough loss, very embarrassing, but we need to suck it up and learn from our mistakes.

VikesFan787
10-31-2006, 08:51 AM
We all saw the Tony Richardson play. Why doesn't he get the ball more often?

snowinapril
10-31-2006, 08:55 AM
The spark plug Memo and CT do fine.


Maybe down there near the goal line it would have been nice to get him a touch or two more.

Yes, T Rich is doing a great job, remember he is a role player.
Our whole team has roles.

arialassault84
10-31-2006, 09:16 AM
I hope we lose out!! Maybe then Chilly will get off his ego trip and realize MEMO makes things happen......

cyviking
10-31-2006, 09:19 AM
My quick thoughts.
We got dominated by imo the best team in the NFL. We got completly dominated in every aspect.
Now its time to lick our wounds and regroup and not lose to another team we should beat in the 49ers.
This is still a team i feel will win 8-10 games. We are not a bad team the Pats just had our number last night and now we can realize the this team still has a ways to go before we are elite.
Loseing like that is sad but doing it at home is even more sad, lets turn it around the season gets a little softer starting now.
Why not start T. Jack too????or at least let him get some snaps.
Go Vikes

nextvikingsstar
10-31-2006, 09:36 AM
i agree, we will win 10 games, the toughest part of our schedule it done, but we cant have a down game against the niners like we did against the bills, after a tough bears loss, the pats are a great team, a team we shoulda played better against

PurpleRide
10-31-2006, 09:51 AM
"arialassault84" wrote:


I hope we lose out!! Maybe then Chilly will get off his ego trip and realize MEMO makes things happen......


I agree he makes things happen, he also gets hurt too much to be dependable.
Memo just like B johnson are back-ups, its too bad one is the starter and we paid the price because of that.

MississippiViking
10-31-2006, 10:08 AM
We had no chance in this game because Chester Taylor had 10 carries!
We did the same thing in the Buffalo game.
For some reason the Vikings got pass happy.
It doesn't matter if you are down 10 points you still need to play your game plan.
We didn't wear out there defense or keep the ball away from Tom Brady.
It doesn't make any sense.
I agree with those who say we can still will 10 games.
I think it will be just like last year.
Remember we beat Carolina and Seattle so if we end up tied with them we go to the playoffs.

PurpleRide
10-31-2006, 10:26 AM
"MississippiViking" wrote:


We had no chance in this game because Chester Taylor had 10 carries!
We did the same thing in the Buffalo game.
For some reason the Vikings got pass happy.
It doesn't matter if you are down 10 points you still need to play your game plan.
We didn't wear out there defense or keep the ball away from Tom Brady.
It doesn't make any sense.
I agree with those who say we can still will 10 games.
I think it will be just like last year.
Remember we beat Carolina and Seattle so if we end up tied with them we go to the playoffs.


I remember carolina gave us that game, I remember steve smith was out.
I know carolina and seattle both have QB's that can win games when they need the QB to step it up and take control of the game.
Our starter wont do that.

thepacksux
10-31-2006, 03:34 PM
Our d-line got NO pressure last night.
I am disappointed with udeze...


On the other hand, jayme mitchell looks like a steal.
kid has some good moves and power as well

cajunvike
10-31-2006, 03:38 PM
"Gift" wrote:


One Bright Note,

Our run defense will still be #1!

and probably will stay that way the rest of the year cuz there is really no need to run on us.


Nope...we are now #2...the Ravens passed us!

cajunvike
10-31-2006, 03:40 PM
"BearsFanGrrrr" wrote:


No worries Vikes, DA BEARS will advenge your defeat !

;D
You dropped the ball(no pun intended) but DA BEARS will make them pay for embarrassing you, on national TV !

:o
Your team was not up to the task, but do not fret, DA BEARS will knock them down a peg or two for ya !

8)
NFCN will be advenged !

;D


ONLY if you pay the refs MORE than Bob "Cheez Whiz" Kraft paid them last night!

sleepagent
10-31-2006, 03:42 PM
Here's a bright spot . . . We're 4-1 against the NFC!

whackthepack
10-31-2006, 03:52 PM
"thepacksux" wrote:


Our d-line got NO pressure last night.
I am disappointed with udeze...


On the other hand, jayme mitchell looks like a steal.
kid has some good moves and power as well



Chilldress said in his news conference today that Kevin Williams sprained his ankle on the second play of the game but he went back in and gutted it out, he also was sick and I heard he throw up on the field.

Pat Will had some swelling (fluid) on his knee.

Napo Harris dislocated his wrist and has it in a cast but is not ruled out for Sunday and he is a day to day.

Matt Birk had a hyper-extension of the knee.

Prophet
10-31-2006, 03:54 PM
"whackthepack" wrote:


"thepacksux" wrote:


Our d-line got NO pressure last night.
I am disappointed with udeze...


On the other hand, jayme mitchell looks like a steal.
kid has some good moves and power as well



Chilldress said in his news conference today that Kevin Williams sprained his ankle on the second play of the game but he went back in and gutted it out, he also was sick and I heard he throw up on the field.

Pat Will had some swelling (fluid) on his knee.

Napo Harris dislocated his wrist and has it in a cast but is not ruled out for Sunday and he is a day to day.

Matt Birk had a hyper-extension of the knee.




:'(, tough day at the races.
Damn.

cajunvike
10-31-2006, 03:57 PM
"whackthepack" wrote:


"thepacksux" wrote:


Our d-line got NO pressure last night.
I am disappointed with udeze...


On the other hand, jayme mitchell looks like a steal.
kid has some good moves and power as well



Chilldress said in his news conference today that Kevin Williams sprained his ankle on the second play of the game but he went back in and gutted it out, he also was sick and I heard he throw up on the field.

Pat Will had some swelling (fluid) on his knee.

Napo Harris dislocated his wrist and has it in a cast but is not ruled out for Sunday and he is a day to day.

Matt Birk had a hyper-extension of the knee.




Belichick's "Injury List" will be even more extensive!

ultravikingfan
10-31-2006, 03:59 PM
"whackthepack" wrote:


"thepacksux" wrote:


Our d-line got NO pressure last night.
I am disappointed with udeze...


On the other hand, jayme mitchell looks like a steal.
kid has some good moves and power as well



Chilldress said in his news conference today that Kevin Williams sprained his ankle on the second play of the game but he went back in and gutted it out, he also was sick and I heard he throw up on the field.

Pat Will had some swelling (fluid) on his knee.

Napo Harris dislocated his wrist and has it in a cast but is not ruled out for Sunday and he is a day to day.

Matt Birk had a hyper-extension of the knee.




Nap got ran over BIG TIME by Watson!
Ouch!

PurplePeopleEaters
10-31-2006, 05:06 PM
Seriously, around this time of the year I feel like saying shut the hell up to more and more people on this site.

Listen carefully as I reiterate our current standings. We are 4-3. Last year at this same time we were 2-5. I find it hilarious that in the EXACT SAME WEEK the past two years the vikings fans are ready to throw themselves off of a cliff, last year because culpepper was out for the season. Yes, I know, we're vikings fan.. things don't ever seem to get better, but look at how the culpepper fiasco turned out last year! We missed the playoffs by one f'in game last year when we started the season 1-4.

Now let me remind you of another thing. Who led our offense on that winning streak last year? Yes, none other than public enemy number one, Brad Johnson.

Get over yourself Tarvaris lovers. He is not coming in this year. Brad Childress understands that grooming a quarterback for prime time may take a year or two. Clearly a majority of the people on this board do not understand that. Brad Johnson is our starter. We've seen worse quarterbacks in minnesota, namely spurgon wynn, so no, this is not time to jump off of a cliff.

Troy Williamson looked a lot better last night. Sure, he dropped one but that wasn't the easiest of catches and he made the hard ones look fairly easy last night. Stop yelling around and saying that he needs to be traded, benched, etc. If the other receivers on our team were better than him, he would have been replaced by now.

When you say fire Childress, I don't think you mean it. We abandoned the run plain and simple, we abandoned the blitz. That screwed us last night. So what, we move on. It's a good way to learn from our own mistakes.

We have an easy schedule coming up. Green bay will be tough. Hey, it's the packers vs. vikings game. It's never going to be easy. Other than that, St. Louis, and New York, we have fairly easy and VERY winnable games for the rest of the season.

So my advice to you idiots calling for people's heads and yelling for a 3rd string 1-AA quarterback to go in, Suck it up and quit crying. I'm a vikings fan, I get over it, you should too.



SKOL

Prophet
10-31-2006, 05:17 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


Seriously, around this time of the year I feel like saying shut the hell up to more and more people on this site.

Listen carefully as I reiterate our current standings. We are 4-3. Last year at this same time we were 2-5. I find it hilarious that in the EXACT SAME WEEK the past two years the vikings fans are ready to throw themselves off of a cliff, last year because culpepper was out for the season. Yes, I know, we're vikings fan.. things don't ever seem to get better, but look at how the culpepper fiasco turned out last year! We missed the playoffs by one f'in game last year when we started the season 1-4.

Now let me remind you of another thing. Who led our offense on that winning streak last year? Yes, none other than public enemy number one, Brad Johnson.

Get over yourself Tarvaris lovers. He is not coming in this year. Brad Childress understands that grooming a quarterback for prime time may take a year or two. Clearly a majority of the people on this board do not understand that. Brad Johnson is our starter. We've seen worse quarterbacks in minnesota, namely spurgon wynn, so no, this is not time to jump off of a cliff.

Troy Williamson looked a lot better last night. Sure, he dropped one but that wasn't the easiest of catches and he made the hard ones look fairly easy last night. Stop yelling around and saying that he needs to be traded, benched, etc. If the other receivers on our team were better than him, he would have been replaced by now.

When you say fire Childress, I don't think you mean it. We abandoned the run plain and simple, we abandoned the blitz. That screwed us last night. So what, we move on. It's a good way to learn from our own mistakes.

We have an easy schedule coming up. Green bay will be tough. Hey, it's the packers vs. vikings game. It's never going to be easy. Other than that, St. Louis, and New York, we have fairly easy and VERY winnable games for the rest of the season.

So my advice to you idiots calling for people's heads and yelling for a 3rd string 1-AA quarterback to go in, Suck it up and quit crying. I'm a vikings fan, I get over it, you should too.



SKOL



Nice.
Maybe you should give them all a free Madden game or a bowling pass.

ultravikingfan
10-31-2006, 05:25 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


Seriously, around this time of the year I feel like saying shut the hell up to more and more people on this site.

Listen carefully as I reiterate our current standings. We are 4-3. Last year at this same time we were 2-5. I find it hilarious that in the EXACT SAME WEEK the past two years the vikings fans are ready to throw themselves off of a cliff, last year because culpepper was out for the season. Yes, I know, we're vikings fan.. things don't ever seem to get better, but look at how the culpepper fiasco turned out last year! We missed the playoffs by one f'in game last year when we started the season 1-4.

Now let me remind you of another thing. Who led our offense on that winning streak last year? Yes, none other than public enemy number one, Brad Johnson.

Get over yourself Tarvaris lovers. He is not coming in this year. Brad Childress understands that grooming a quarterback for prime time may take a year or two. Clearly a majority of the people on this board do not understand that. Brad Johnson is our starter. We've seen worse quarterbacks in minnesota, namely spurgon wynn, so no, this is not time to jump off of a cliff.

Troy Williamson looked a lot better last night. Sure, he dropped one but that wasn't the easiest of catches and he made the hard ones look fairly easy last night. Stop yelling around and saying that he needs to be traded, benched, etc. If the other receivers on our team were better than him, he would have been replaced by now.

When you say fire Childress, I don't think you mean it. We abandoned the run plain and simple, we abandoned the blitz. That screwed us last night. So what, we move on. It's a good way to learn from our own mistakes.

We have an easy schedule coming up. Green bay will be tough. Hey, it's the packers vs. vikings game. It's never going to be easy. Other than that, St. Louis, and New York, we have fairly easy and VERY winnable games for the rest of the season.

So my advice to you idiots calling for people's heads and yelling for a 3rd string 1-AA quarterback to go in, Suck it up and quit crying. I'm a vikings fan, I get over it, you should too.



SKOL



That's what I am talking about!

cajunvike
10-31-2006, 05:33 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


Seriously, around this time of the year I feel like saying shut the hell up to more and more people on this site.

Listen carefully as I reiterate our current standings. We are 4-3. Last year at this same time we were 2-5. I find it hilarious that in the EXACT SAME WEEK the past two years the vikings fans are ready to throw themselves off of a cliff, last year because culpepper was out for the season. Yes, I know, we're vikings fan.. things don't ever seem to get better, but look at how the culpepper fiasco turned out last year! We missed the playoffs by one f'in game last year when we started the season 1-4.

Now let me remind you of another thing. Who led our offense on that winning streak last year? Yes, none other than public enemy number one, Brad Johnson.

Get over yourself Tarvaris lovers. He is not coming in this year. Brad Childress understands that grooming a quarterback for prime time may take a year or two. Clearly a majority of the people on this board do not understand that. Brad Johnson is our starter. We've seen worse quarterbacks in minnesota, namely spurgon wynn, so no, this is not time to jump off of a cliff.

Troy Williamson looked a lot better last night. Sure, he dropped one but that wasn't the easiest of catches and he made the hard ones look fairly easy last night. Stop yelling around and saying that he needs to be traded, benched, etc. If the other receivers on our team were better than him, he would have been replaced by now.

When you say fire Childress, I don't think you mean it. We abandoned the run plain and simple, we abandoned the blitz. That screwed us last night. So what, we move on. It's a good way to learn from our own mistakes.

We have an easy schedule coming up. Green bay will be tough. Hey, it's the packers vs. vikings game. It's never going to be easy. Other than that, St. Louis, and New York, we have fairly easy and VERY winnable games for the rest of the season.

So my advice to you idiots calling for people's heads and yelling for a 3rd string 1-AA quarterback to go in, Suck it up and quit crying. I'm a vikings fan, I get over it, you should too.


SKOL



AND an NC State fan!!!
:D

You tell 'em, BIG DADDY!!!
;D

VikemanX84
10-31-2006, 05:46 PM
Why start T-Jack?
I don't know why we don't start T-Jack.
And while I too get sick of some people calling for heads too early or calling for someone who isn't ready.

However I only get that way when they think that this guy is going to come in and do better than a guy who is doing mediocre.
In this Case I think Tarvaris can come in be mediocre and that would be a step up from Brad Johnson who (and I'm not just basing this at Mondays game) has sucked for the better part of this season.
He can't move around, he makes really, really, REALLY(!!!!!!!!!!) stupid decisions and can't win us a game.
We might as well put Tarvaris in since Brad is going to suck this much.
There is no reason not too.
At least if Tarvaris doesn't play well he can learn from it and help us in the future or we can kind fo see what we have in him incase we need to go in other directions.

I think Childress is stuborn and at this point a below-average to average coach (he is a rookie though and could become a good one)
and I don't think he is going to make the right decision and start Tarvaris.

We are 4-3 right now because of our defense.
I'm happy about being better but if our offense doesn't improve it won't matter if we make it to the playoffs because we'll lose.

NodakPaul
10-31-2006, 05:55 PM
VikemanX84 wrote:

I don't know why we don't start T-Jack.


We can't start TJ because he isn't ready.
This isn't about what it would do to our win loss record.. it is about what it would do to him as a quarterback.
QBs who are pushed too early learn bad habits that are nearly impossible to fix later on.
They lose confidence in their abilities because they will continually be outmatched.
A coach can't work on the skills the QB has that make him good because he is spending all his time fixing the problems he is developing as a result of live play.

it is the whole sink or swin idea.
If you throw them in before they know what to do, the vast majority of the time they sink - regardless of what their future potential is.

I don't want to sink TJ.
I want him to be leading our team in the years to come.

Ltrey33
10-31-2006, 05:56 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:


Seriously, around this time of the year I feel like saying shut the hell up to more and more people on this site.

Listen carefully as I reiterate our current standings. We are 4-3. Last year at this same time we were 2-5. I find it hilarious that in the EXACT SAME WEEK the past two years the vikings fans are ready to throw themselves off of a cliff, last year because culpepper was out for the season. Yes, I know, we're vikings fan.. things don't ever seem to get better, but look at how the culpepper fiasco turned out last year! We missed the playoffs by one f'in game last year when we started the season 1-4.

Now let me remind you of another thing. Who led our offense on that winning streak last year? Yes, none other than public enemy number one, Brad Johnson.

Get over yourself Tarvaris lovers. He is not coming in this year. Brad Childress understands that grooming a quarterback for prime time may take a year or two. Clearly a majority of the people on this board do not understand that. Brad Johnson is our starter. We've seen worse quarterbacks in minnesota, namely spurgon wynn, so no, this is not time to jump off of a cliff.

Troy Williamson looked a lot better last night. Sure, he dropped one but that wasn't the easiest of catches and he made the hard ones look fairly easy last night. Stop yelling around and saying that he needs to be traded, benched, etc. If the other receivers on our team were better than him, he would have been replaced by now.

When you say fire Childress, I don't think you mean it. We abandoned the run plain and simple, we abandoned the blitz. That screwed us last night. So what, we move on. It's a good way to learn from our own mistakes.

We have an easy schedule coming up. Green bay will be tough. Hey, it's the packers vs. vikings game. It's never going to be easy. Other than that, St. Louis, and New York, we have fairly easy and VERY winnable games for the rest of the season.

So my advice to you idiots calling for people's heads and yelling for a 3rd string 1-AA quarterback to go in, Suck it up and quit crying. I'm a vikings fan, I get over it, you should too.



SKOL



Amen brother!

Desertvikingfan
10-31-2006, 06:01 PM
I don't know why we don't start T-Jack
Man, I am so sick of the "play Jackson" posts I'm spewing on my keyboard. We are 4-3 and you are ready to give up the season to play T-Jack? Brad is and will be our QB this season, get used to it!! If Jackson was the answer he would be playing, he's not, end of story.

VikemanX84
10-31-2006, 06:01 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


VikemanX84 wrote:

I don't know why we don't start T-Jack.


We can't start TJ because he isn't ready.
This isn't about what it would do to our win loss record.. it is about what it would do to him as a quarterback.
QBs who are pushed too early learn bad habits that are nearly impossible to fix later on.
They lose confidence in their abilities because they will continually be outmatched.
A coach can't work on the skills the QB has that make him good because he is spending all his time fixing the problems he is developing as a result of live play.

it is the whole sink or swin idea.
If you throw them in before they know what to do, the vast majority of the time they sink - regardless of what their future potential is.

I don't want to sink TJ.
I want him to be leading our team in the years to come.


We play teams like the 49ers and packers, Cardinals, Jets, and Lions to close out the season.
I don't think starting him is going to sink him.
In fact this is almost a perfect time to start him.
We play weak teams and our starter sucks big time.

Ltrey33
10-31-2006, 06:11 PM
"VikemanX84" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


VikemanX84 wrote:

I don't know why we don't start T-Jack.


We can't start TJ because he isn't ready.
This isn't about what it would do to our win loss record.. it is about what it would do to him as a quarterback.
QBs who are pushed too early learn bad habits that are nearly impossible to fix later on.
They lose confidence in their abilities because they will continually be outmatched.
A coach can't work on the skills the QB has that make him good because he is spending all his time fixing the problems he is developing as a result of live play.

it is the whole sink or swin idea.
If you throw them in before they know what to do, the vast majority of the time they sink - regardless of what their future potential is.

I don't want to sink TJ.
I want him to be leading our team in the years to come.


We play teams like the 49ers and packers, Cardinals, Jets, and Lions to close out the season.
I don't think starting him is going to sink him.
In fact this is almost a perfect time to start him.
We play weak teams and our starter sucks big time.


Whether he has played brilliantly or not, our starter has gotten us to 4-3. IMO, that's plenty well enough to keep your job. Don't you think that Childress would be starting Jackson if he were ready or better than Brad? I think he would be. Coaches' NFL lives are too short to not put the better quarterback on the field, and to start Brad ahead of Jackson out of some misguided sense of loyalty when Tarvaris could do better is illogical, and frankly I don't think Childress is an illogical guy. Face it, Brad is the starter and probably will be until the end of the year (unless the wheels fall off completely), so deal with it. Jackson is not now, nor has he ever been, ready to play in the NFL. If the same thing happens next year, then maybe we can talk, but right now he's not even good enough/has enough of a grasp of the offense to be our 2nd stringer.

All last night shows is that we have a long way to go. IMO, we've had a nice head start on getting to where we want to be, but our offense and our coaching staff has some maturing to do before we'll be competitive in big games. Hopefully the next few weeks against poorer teams will help us along.

marcosMN
10-31-2006, 06:11 PM
After a day of cooling off, I feel much better than I did after the game.

I am EXTREMELY happy to have a winning record thus far, and I'm looking foreward to our next few games, as they have the makings of being the confidence boosts we need to get us to the playoffs.

Happy Halloween folks!

KrackerJack
10-31-2006, 06:24 PM
Obvisouly the refs SUCKED! they cost us atleast or around 3 TD's in my opinion, one was when johnson threw that interception in the redzone right to the guy if you watch the guy he was tryin to hit there should've been a Defenseve PI, that one long pass to T-will should have been defensive PI and of course the Wiggins play...I know we probably wouldve still lost the game, but it wouldve been a close game in my opinion, and everyone blames games of reffing and it's just an excuse, but this one i think we have a right to say that, and Brad played crappy so did a few other guys but it would have been way closer....oh ya one more thing! WHAT THE HELL was that call on D-Sharp for illegal contact about? he touched him! :-X if you wanna reply to me about somethin in this message mail it to me because i gotta go

thebeau14
10-31-2006, 06:34 PM
I have no idea why you guys want tarvaris to play, he is a quatrerback that needs to be groomed for at least this year and also have you guys forgotten that he just had surgery on his knee like a month ago?!?!?!
wouldnt that be the stupidest move to put in a rookie quarterback who isnt 100% and scared he might get hurt!!!


Im new by the way and am happy to be aboard!!

ultravikingfan
10-31-2006, 06:47 PM
"thebeau14" wrote:


I have no idea why you guys want tarvaris to play, he is a quatrerback that needs to be groomed for at least this year and also have you guys forgotten that he just had surgery on his knee like a month ago?!?!?!
wouldnt that be the stupidest move to put in a rookie quarterback who isnt 100% and scared he might get hurt!!!


Im new by the way and am happy to be aboard!!


Welcome friend!
Glad to have ya here!

BadlandsVikings
10-31-2006, 06:51 PM
welcome to the site thebeau14


SKOL!!

cajunvike
10-31-2006, 07:15 PM
"thebeau14" wrote:


I have no idea why you guys want tarvaris to play, he is a quatrerback that needs to be groomed for at least this year and also have you guys forgotten that he just had surgery on his knee like a month ago?!?!?!
wouldnt that be the stupidest move to put in a rookie quarterback who isnt 100% and scared he might get hurt!!!


Im new by the way and am happy to be aboard!!


Welcome, thebeau!
Is that a last name, BTW?

VikemanX84
10-31-2006, 08:05 PM
I actually do think that Childress would keep T-Jack at #3 if he were better than BJ or Brooks.
I think he is stubborn and he said that T-Jack was going to be #3 and thats how its going to be.
I don't think he makes the right decision all of the time and I think he's making the wrong one now.

I don't know if T-Jack would play better than BJ or Brooks but I know that B&B suck and for all we know T-Jack could be the man.

Our starting QB isn't good enough tog et us to 4-3.
Our defense is good enough to get us to 4-3.
Don't even think about BJ more than a dimes worth of credit for any win we've had so far.
He's made 1 or 2 big plays in 7 fing games.
Our offense has scored 7 fing TDs in 7 games. If you can't see that is feaking horrible and this offense needs to change something then you need to get your eyesight checked out.

Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
We keep putting the same old guy with no deep ball who makes bad decisions in key moments (3rd down, 2 minute drill) out there and expecting something different than what he's ben giving us.
It's stupid and insane and something needs to change and since our QB is playing like crap, I say it's him.

singersp
10-31-2006, 08:28 PM
Welcome to Purple Pride!

thebeau14
11-01-2006, 04:02 AM
HEY GUYS WHATS UP???
no beau is my first name, my parents named me that, but like the rock im the beau ... remember that btiches ....... honestly i can almost contest that imone of the most die hard viking fans here
Like i watched the, when garey anderson (the leadign scorer in football history) missed the kick i watches them every singles year untul now, lik ewhen they drafterd culpepper up until now .... nad honestly every game up unll then, (my dad had illegal satelltie all these years hahahaha)
cris carter better make it to the hall of fame ... sams with fuckin john randle!!!!!!!!!!!

the 49ers dont got
a chance,. hopefullly we dont pull a 'zona move on this game

Prophet
11-01-2006, 07:17 AM
"thebeau14" wrote:


HEY GUYS WHATS UP???
no beau is my first name, my parents named me that, but like the rock im the beau ... remember that btiches ....... honestly i can almost contest that imone of the most die hard viking fans here

Like i watched the, when garey anderson (the leadign scorer in football history) missed the kick i watches them every singles year untul now, lik ewhen they drafterd culpepper up until now .... nad honestly every game up unll then, (my dad had illegal satelltie all these years hahahaha)

cris carter better make it to the hall of fame ... sams with fricken john randle!!!!!!!!!!!


the 49ers dont got
a chance,. hopefullly we dont pull a 'zona move on this game

Funny stuff, in 2043 you will have as much experience following the Vikings as some of us have at this moment.

Welcome to the site though.

NodakPaul
11-01-2006, 09:14 AM
"VikemanX84" wrote:

We keep putting the same old guy with no deep ball who makes bad decisions in key moments (3rd down, 2 minute drill) out there and expecting something different than what he's ben giving us.
It's stupid and insane and something needs to change and since our QB is playing like crap, I say it's him.

You are right when you say that BJ has no deep ball threat, but to say that he makes bad decisions in key moments is ridiculous.
The one thing that you can normally count on BJ for is not making bad decisions.
Making comments like that unfortunately voids any other good argument you may have made.

cajunvike
11-01-2006, 09:40 AM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"VikemanX84" wrote:

We keep putting the same old guy with no deep ball who makes bad decisions in key moments (3rd down, 2 minute drill) out there and expecting something different than what he's ben giving us.
It's stupid and insane and something needs to change and since our QB is playing like crap, I say it's him.

You are right when you say that BJ has no deep ball threat, but to say that he makes bad decisions in key moments is ridiculous.
The one thing that you can normally count on BJ for is not making bad decisions.
Making comments like that unfortunately voids any other good argument you may have made.


Except when he throws a perfect deep ball to someone like, oh, TWill...but the opposing safety grabs one of his arms so that he can't make the catch...refs must've been on a smoke break on that one.

Or when he throws a perfec strike to MRob for a 40-yard TD.

Yes, BJ doesn't have the most accurate deep ball...but this offense isn't the offense of 1998...and we don't have a Randy Moss who can go and get anything that is just thrown over the middle of the field.
Brad's deep balls are usually thrown where either his WRs can get them...or no one can.
That won't change until our WRs prove that they can come down with the deep balls over the middle like Randy did.

petrodemos
11-01-2006, 10:41 AM
think tho, even if Tjack isnt ready, there will be two things added to our offense. a deep threat, and a vick like QB that can rush the 20 yards up the middle. oh wait three things, help our O-line who struggles to protect the QB in passing situations at times. Bollinger gives us NOTHING. id rather see a struggling BJ in there than a NOBODY.

Rothlisberger took the steelers to the AFC championship in his rookie debut. but im just sayin.

i think in the 4th quarter of a blow out at home, how do you add a little excitement to the game, get the fans pumped up a little, you put in your future QB see what hes made of. will it destroy him if he has a bad game? maybe, but most likely it will teach him a lesson and allow him to realize what he needs to work on most. i just think childress missed a perfect opportunity to see what he has. ofcourse same could be said of bollinger, but dam, he sucks. lol

whackthepack
11-01-2006, 11:00 AM
"petrodemos" wrote:


think tho, even if Tjack isnt ready, there will be two things added to our offense. a deep threat, and a vick like QB that can rush the 20 yards up the middle. oh wait three things, help our O-line who struggles to protect the QB in passing situations at times. Bollinger gives us NOTHING. id rather see a struggling BJ in there than a NOBODY.

Rothlisberger took the steelers to the AFC championship in his rookie debut. but im just sayin.

i think in the 4th quarter of a blow out at home, how do you add a little excitement to the game, get the fans pumped up a little, you put in your future QB see what hes made of. will it destroy him if he has a bad game? maybe, but most likely it will teach him a lesson and allow him to realize what he needs to work on most. i just think childress missed a perfect opportunity to see what he has. ofcourse same could be said of bollinger, but dam, he sucks. lol



If Childress replaces Brad with anybody it will be Bollinger, and he would get at least 2 or 3 games to see what he can do before Childress would try T-Jack!
But that is saying that Childress would replace Brad and unless Brad throws 3 INT's again (which I doubt he does) this is a moot point.

Del Rio
11-01-2006, 11:07 AM
If you see Tavaris move from 3rd string to 2nd string then all the Tavaris fans can start getting ready for some fireworks. If that doesn't happen I doubt Childress with leap frog Bollinger.

You can win without a big playmaking QB. It happens all the time and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. BUT you need SOMEONE to make plays. Perferably consistantly. Our team does not have that. What we do not want to see is Brad trying to make plays out of nothing because he can't. We need a WR to finally become what they had potential to be when drafed. Or a young guy like Jason Carter to embrace it and run with it.

Right now we have no playmaker. No idenity. Maybe Tavaris is that guy, but at third string he has to show Childress something that allows him to move TJ up.

petrodemos
11-01-2006, 11:30 AM
i understand childress isnt going to make that move, i was just sayin, if there ever was an opportunity, the 4th quarter would have been it. i think the fans might have stuck around longer had the QB of the future stepped on the field, just adding a little excitement, and take away from the negativity that was the vikings losing. one thing is for sure, childress is stubborn. but is he Denny green stubborn or bellycheck stubborn.

Del Rio
11-01-2006, 11:34 AM
I have a feeling being stubborn as a HC in the NFL is damn near a prerequisite to success. I would hate for a coach to shift his plan on a whim just for the fans.

NodakPaul
11-01-2006, 12:04 PM
"petrodemos" wrote:


i understand childress isnt going to make that move, i was just sayin, if there ever was an opportunity, the 4th quarter would have been it. i think the fans might have stuck around longer had the QB of the future stepped on the field, just adding a little excitement, and take away from the negativity that was the vikings losing. one thing is for sure, childress is stubborn. but is he Denny green stubborn or bellycheck stubborn.


I don't know, when BB went in, some of the fans cheered and sat down... until he was sacked three consecutive times.
Then the mass exodus started up again, and lasted through the last drive when it almost looked like we were going to score an offensive TD.

I worry that if TJ went in, got sacked a few times like BB, the crowd would have turned on him too.
Not to mention why would you risk injury to him.
If BB gets injured, no offense, but we really wouldn't be losing that much... ;)

Marrdro
11-01-2006, 12:08 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


VikemanX84 wrote:

I don't know why we don't start T-Jack.


We can't start TJ because he isn't ready.
This isn't about what it would do to our win loss record.. it is about what it would do to him as a quarterback.
QBs who are pushed too early learn bad habits that are nearly impossible to fix later on.
They lose confidence in their abilities because they will continually be outmatched.
A coach can't work on the skills the QB has that make him good because he is spending all his time fixing the problems he is developing as a result of live play.

it is the whole sink or swin idea.
If you throw them in before they know what to do, the vast majority of the time they sink - regardless of what their future potential is.

I don't want to sink TJ.
I want him to be leading our team in the years to come.


How ya gonna know when he is ready?
Pre-season?
Practice?
I too am tired of this lame excuse just as some of you are tired of hearing bench Brad.
Well that happened, why didn't T-jack come in then?


My feeling on young QBs and if they are ready are:
If they are gonna be good they will be no matter when you put them in.
If they aren't S#!* can them and draft another one.

Our defense will keep us in just as many games with Tavaris in there as with Brad in there.
Face it, Our offense isn't going to GEL.

Let him play against the weaker teams now and get him ready under real game time circumstances so that he can be effective when we make the playoffs.

whackthepack
11-01-2006, 12:22 PM
"petrodemos" wrote:


i understand childress isnt going to make that move, i was just sayin, if there ever was an opportunity, the 4th quarter would have been it. i think the fans might have stuck around longer had the QB of the future stepped on the field, just adding a little excitement, and take away from the negativity that was the vikings losing. one thing is for sure, childress is stubborn. but is he Denny green stubborn or bellycheck stubborn.



Bring a rookie into that situation?
Not a frickin chance in helll!

You are way wrong Petro if you think they should have brought T-Jack into the Pats game when they took out Brad!


Here rookie I am going to throw you into a game that a 11 year pro can't handle and see what you can do, yeah right!

NodakPaul
11-01-2006, 12:27 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


VikemanX84 wrote:

I don't know why we don't start T-Jack.


We can't start TJ because he isn't ready.
This isn't about what it would do to our win loss record.. it is about what it would do to him as a quarterback.
QBs who are pushed too early learn bad habits that are nearly impossible to fix later on.
They lose confidence in their abilities because they will continually be outmatched.
A coach can't work on the skills the QB has that make him good because he is spending all his time fixing the problems he is developing as a result of live play.

it is the whole sink or swin idea.
If you throw them in before they know what to do, the vast majority of the time they sink - regardless of what their future potential is.

I don't want to sink TJ.
I want him to be leading our team in the years to come.


How ya gonna know when he is ready?
Pre-season?
Practice?
I too am tired of this lame excuse just as some of you are tired of hearing bench Brad.
Well that happened, why didn't T-jack come in then?


My feeling on young QBs and if they are ready are:
If they are gonna be good they will be no matter when you put them in.
If they aren't S#!* can them and draft another one.

Our defense will keep us in just as many games with Tavaris in there as with Brad in there.
Face it, Our offense isn't going to GEL.

Let him play against the weaker teams now and get him ready under real game time circumstances so that he can be effective when we make the playoffs.




That is like saying "Who cares if he can drive yet?
Put him in a car and get him on the interstate!
If he's gonna be good, he will be good no matter what.
if he crashes just can him and go to the magic QB store and get another one.
Besides, he rode a bicycle really well in college, so that should all translate directly into driving a car..."

The transition from college to NFL is huge.
Especially from a small college football program to the NFL.
There is a lot to learn, a lot to absorb.
Just throwing him in there will get him slaughtered.
Look at Leinart.
He is arguably the best QB to come out of the draft, and he is still having trouble adjusting.

Skill positions, especially QB and WR, tend to need at least a year to adjust to the speed and complexity of the NFL.
Most college offensive programs are extremely different from the NFL, so they have a lot to learn.

Putting TJ in under real game circumstances right now has a pretty good chance of destroying his confidence early and teaching him bad habits to compensate for the skills and knowledge set he just doesn't have yet.
It is better to give him the year to learn and then let him compete for the staring role in training camp, just like everybody else.

Plus, you ask why TJ wasn't put in when BJ was benched.
Maybe because TJ is the third string QB, not the second.

Del Rio
11-01-2006, 12:31 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


VikemanX84 wrote:

I don't know why we don't start T-Jack.


We can't start TJ because he isn't ready.
This isn't about what it would do to our win loss record.. it is about what it would do to him as a quarterback.
QBs who are pushed too early learn bad habits that are nearly impossible to fix later on.
They lose confidence in their abilities because they will continually be outmatched.
A coach can't work on the skills the QB has that make him good because he is spending all his time fixing the problems he is developing as a result of live play.

it is the whole sink or swin idea.
If you throw them in before they know what to do, the vast majority of the time they sink - regardless of what their future potential is.

I don't want to sink TJ.
I want him to be leading our team in the years to come.


How ya gonna know when he is ready?
Pre-season?
Practice?
I too am tired of this lame excuse just as some of you are tired of hearing bench Brad.
Well that happened, why didn't T-jack come in then?


My feeling on young QBs and if they are ready are:
If they are gonna be good they will be no matter when you put them in.
If they aren't S#!* can them and draft another one.

Our defense will keep us in just as many games with Tavaris in there as with Brad in there.
Face it, Our offense isn't going to GEL.

Let him play against the weaker teams now and get him ready under real game time circumstances so that he can be effective when we make the playoffs.




That is like saying "Who cares if he can drive yet?
Put him in a car and get him on the interstate!
If he's gonna be good, he will be good no matter what.
if he crashes just can him and go to the magic QB store and get another one.
Besides, he rode a bicycle really well in college, so that should all translate directly into driving a car..."

The transition from college to NFL is huge.
Especially from a small college football program to the NFL.
There is a lot to learn, a lot to absorb.
Just throwing him in there will get him slaughtered.
Look at Leinart.
He is arguably the best QB to come out of the draft, and he is still having trouble adjusting.

Skill positions, especially QB and WR, tend to need at least a year to adjust to the speed and complexity of the NFL.
Most college offensive programs are extremely different from the NFL, so they have a lot to learn.

Putting TJ in under real game circumstances right now has a pretty good chance of destroying his confidence early and teaching him bad habits to compensate for the skills and knowledge set he just doesn't have yet.
It is better to give him the year to learn and then let him compete for the staring role in training camp, just like everybody else.

Plus, you ask why TJ wasn't put in when BJ was benched.
Maybe because TJ is the third string QB, not the second.


You know how you know when he is ready? When Childress puts him in.

Marrdro
11-01-2006, 12:48 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


VikemanX84 wrote:

I don't know why we don't start T-Jack.


We can't start TJ because he isn't ready.
This isn't about what it would do to our win loss record.. it is about what it would do to him as a quarterback.
QBs who are pushed too early learn bad habits that are nearly impossible to fix later on.
They lose confidence in their abilities because they will continually be outmatched.
A coach can't work on the skills the QB has that make him good because he is spending all his time fixing the problems he is developing as a result of live play.

it is the whole sink or swin idea.
If you throw them in before they know what to do, the vast majority of the time they sink - regardless of what their future potential is.

I don't want to sink TJ.
I want him to be leading our team in the years to come.


How ya gonna know when he is ready?
Pre-season?
Practice?
I too am tired of this lame excuse just as some of you are tired of hearing bench Brad.
Well that happened, why didn't T-jack come in then?


My feeling on young QBs and if they are ready are:
If they are gonna be good they will be no matter when you put them in.
If they aren't S#!* can them and draft another one.

Our defense will keep us in just as many games with Tavaris in there as with Brad in there.
Face it, Our offense isn't going to GEL.

Let him play against the weaker teams now and get him ready under real game time circumstances so that he can be effective when we make the playoffs.




That is like saying "Who cares if he can drive yet?
Put him in a car and get him on the interstate!
If he's gonna be good, he will be good no matter what.
if he crashes just can him and go to the magic QB store and get another one.
Besides, he rode a bicycle really well in college, so that should all translate directly into driving a car..."

The transition from college to NFL is huge.
Especially from a small college football program to the NFL.
There is a lot to learn, a lot to absorb.
Just throwing him in there will get him slaughtered.
Look at Leinart.
He is arguably the best QB to come out of the draft, and he is still having trouble adjusting.

Skill positions, especially QB and WR, tend to need at least a year to adjust to the speed and complexity of the NFL.
Most college offensive programs are extremely different from the NFL, so they have a lot to learn.

Putting TJ in under real game circumstances right now has a pretty good chance of destroying his confidence early and teaching him bad habits to compensate for the skills and knowledge set he just doesn't have yet.
It is better to give him the year to learn and then let him compete for the staring role in training camp, just like everybody else.

Plus, you ask why TJ wasn't put in when BJ was benched.
Maybe because TJ is the third string QB, not the second.


I guess we will have to agree to disagree on how to get a QB ready.
Understand the rationale you are using, however, there have been just as many QB's thrown into the mix that have worked as not.

I would however, like to bring up a point I was trying to make in a previous post about Brads contract.
He isn't/hasn't been given a raise or extension.
My thought there is that it is because he won't be our QB next year.
Who will it be then?
Goodness forbid it is going to be our NUMBER 2 QB.
Is he really the answer.


I would level that the answer is no.
Tavaris will be the QB next year or else the plan must be to go out and get a free agent.
Not sure who will be available next year.

Anyway, things still aren't as bad as everyone of the naysayers are making it out to be.
We are 4-3 and still in the playoff hunt.
Pretty good for a new coaching staff, relatively new owner and a good core nucleas of players.
;D

NodakPaul
11-01-2006, 01:41 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:

I would however, like to bring up a point I was trying to make in a previous post about Brads contract.
He isn't/hasn't been given a raise or extension.
My thought there is that it is because he won't be our QB next year.
Who will it be then?
Goodness forbid it is going to be our NUMBER 2 QB.
Is he really the answer.


I would level that the answer is no.
Tavaris will be the QB next year or else the plan must be to go out and get a free agent.
Not sure who will be available next year.


I absolutely agree with you here.
Over the offseason, I was confused when BJ didn't get a raise.
Now, however, I am starting to think that BJ didn't get a raise or extension by design because he won't be there next year unless he wins a superbowl for us.
I am guessing that TJ will take the helm during training camp next year.

Marrdro
11-01-2006, 01:55 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:

I would however, like to bring up a point I was trying to make in a previous post about Brads contract.
He isn't/hasn't been given a raise or extension.
My thought there is that it is because he won't be our QB next year.
Who will it be then?
Goodness forbid it is going to be our NUMBER 2 QB.
Is he really the answer.


I would level that the answer is no.
Tavaris will be the QB next year or else the plan must be to go out and get a free agent.
Not sure who will be available next year.


I absolutely agree with you here.
Over the offseason, I was confused when BJ didn't get a raise.
Now, however, I am starting to think that BJ didn't get a raise or extension by design because he won't be there next year unless he wins a superbowl for us.
I am guessing that TJ will take the helm during training camp next year.


I need to go ahead and sniff around and find out who/what QBs are out there next year but I bet it aint great.
We won't have a high enough pick to draft a "NFL Ready" QB out of college next year.
:o Maybe the Dolphins will give us a few picks to take Daunte back :o ARGGGGG Perish the thought.

Again, T-J needs to play sometime and I think sooner is better to find out his makeup.
Heck we have coaches that can help him grow/learn from his mistakes.
Monday night would have been a great opportunity.
Brooks isn't the answer.

Del Rio
11-01-2006, 01:57 PM
"Marrdro" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:

I would however, like to bring up a point I was trying to make in a previous post about Brads contract.
He isn't/hasn't been given a raise or extension.
My thought there is that it is because he won't be our QB next year.
Who will it be then?
Goodness forbid it is going to be our NUMBER 2 QB.
Is he really the answer.


I would level that the answer is no.
Tavaris will be the QB next year or else the plan must be to go out and get a free agent.
Not sure who will be available next year.


I absolutely agree with you here.
Over the offseason, I was confused when BJ didn't get a raise.
Now, however, I am starting to think that BJ didn't get a raise or extension by design because he won't be there next year unless he wins a superbowl for us.
I am guessing that TJ will take the helm during training camp next year.


I need to go ahead and sniff around and find out who/what QBs are out there next year but I bet it aint great.
We won't have a high enough pick to draft a "NFL Ready" QB out of college next year.

:o Maybe the Dolphins will give us a few picks to take Daunte back :o ARGGGGG Perish the thought.

Again, T-J needs to play sometime and I think sooner is better to find out his makeup.
Heck we have coaches that can help him grow/learn from his mistakes.
Monday night would have been a great opportunity.
Brooks isn't the answer.


Matt Schuab is a RFA unless the reworked his deal this year. His name will be floating around alot.

Marrdro
11-01-2006, 02:03 PM
"Del" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:

I would however, like to bring up a point I was trying to make in a previous post about Brads contract.
He isn't/hasn't been given a raise or extension.
My thought there is that it is because he won't be our QB next year.
Who will it be then?
Goodness forbid it is going to be our NUMBER 2 QB.
Is he really the answer.


I would level that the answer is no.
Tavaris will be the QB next year or else the plan must be to go out and get a free agent.
Not sure who will be available next year.


I absolutely agree with you here.
Over the offseason, I was confused when BJ didn't get a raise.
Now, however, I am starting to think that BJ didn't get a raise or extension by design because he won't be there next year unless he wins a superbowl for us.
I am guessing that TJ will take the helm during training camp next year.


I need to go ahead and sniff around and find out who/what QBs are out there next year but I bet it aint great.
We won't have a high enough pick to draft a "NFL Ready" QB out of college next year.

:o Maybe the Dolphins will give us a few picks to take Daunte back :o ARGGGGG Perish the thought.

Again, T-J needs to play sometime and I think sooner is better to find out his makeup.
Heck we have coaches that can help him grow/learn from his mistakes.
Monday night would have been a great opportunity.
Brooks isn't the answer.


Matt Schuab is a RFA unless the reworked his deal this year. His name will be floating around alot.


Maybe cause Vick is playing better they will let him go.
If I am not mistaken we took a shot this year with draft picks to get him.

Prophet
11-01-2006, 02:17 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:

I would however, like to bring up a point I was trying to make in a previous post about Brads contract.
He isn't/hasn't been given a raise or extension.
My thought there is that it is because he won't be our QB next year.
Who will it be then?
Goodness forbid it is going to be our NUMBER 2 QB.
Is he really the answer.


I would level that the answer is no.
Tavaris will be the QB next year or else the plan must be to go out and get a free agent.
Not sure who will be available next year.


I absolutely agree with you here.
Over the offseason, I was confused when BJ didn't get a raise.
Now, however, I am starting to think that BJ didn't get a raise or extension by design because he won't be there next year unless he wins a superbowl for us.
I am guessing that TJ will take the helm during training camp next year.


The whole BJ contract issue is interesting, most know that he is buying time but the big question continues to be what's next?
The team is obviously hoping TJ will morph into the starting QB slot.


Back on Oct. 8 after Tarvaris' injury, Childress said, "Part of this thing for Tarvaris in terms of being a quarterback as you move down the road is somewhere you've got to fight through these injuries. You watch those guys push. Tarvaris is able to look at that and see how you have to push. Not put yourself out there hurt, but there will be a point somewhere in his career where he is going to get nicked and he's going to have to push and guys are going to trust in the fact that he's getting back there. This is unfortunately a hard learning experience but something he has to go through. But it's real now. He's going to get knocked around in the pocket at some point in the future."
He is preparing him mentally and getting him geared up to start.

TJ was in the #2 QB slot before McMahon was released on Sept. 2.
Now that he is close to full power again he will be competing for the #2 slot.
If he gets back into the #2 slot and BJ starts to turn the ball over then TJ will be the man.
It's not that complicated, there are only two steps and they must occur in this order (this is assuming they are not forced to play TJ early because of a BJ injury/stinkage and a Bollinger injury/stinkage):

1. TJ has to earn the #2 slot (I can't imagine that would be difficult against Bollinger)
2. BJ has to commit a bunch of turnovers or get hurt.

If TJ cannot beat out Bollinger he does not deserve to play yet.
The coaching staff has decades of experience, they will know when TJ is ready or decide when it is time to put him in even if he isn't ready, but playing him is a necessity.

If BJ starts playing like he has during his career, wisely and with minimal turnovers there will be no TJ this year.
However, if the Vikes lock up a playoff slot early in the season (doubtful) TJ may have some reps so they can see his development and help plan for the next offseason.
If the Vikings tank and are mathematically out of the playoffs with a few games left in the season there is a good chance that TJ would see some action, so, again, the team can see if his theoretical progress translates into reality.


The only way the Vikings will be going for a relatively young Schaub-like high money unproven player to take the helm is if BJ proves his career is over and TJ doesn not convince the coaching staff that he has what it takes.
On the contrary, if BJ is done and the coaching staff still believes in TJ but they think he is not ready, they will be looking for another QB that can buy some time (i.e., another veteran that is close to circling the drain or McNairesque).

Marrdro
11-01-2006, 03:10 PM
"Acumen" wrote:


"NodakPaul" wrote:


"Marrdro" wrote:

I would however, like to bring up a point I was trying to make in a previous post about Brads contract.
He isn't/hasn't been given a raise or extension.
My thought there is that it is because he won't be our QB next year.
Who will it be then?
Goodness forbid it is going to be our NUMBER 2 QB.
Is he really the answer.


I would level that the answer is no.
Tavaris will be the QB next year or else the plan must be to go out and get a free agent.
Not sure who will be available next year.



As always a voice of reason
;D
I am realatively new to the page but didn't you just change your Avatar?
Like the new one.
I absolutely agree with you here.
Over the offseason, I was confused when BJ didn't get a raise.
Now, however, I am starting to think that BJ didn't get a raise or extension by design because he won't be there next year unless he wins a superbowl for us.
I am guessing that TJ will take the helm during training camp next year.


The whole BJ contract issue is interesting, most know that he is buying time but the big question continues to be what's next?
The team is obviously hoping TJ will morph into the starting QB slot.


Back on Oct. 8 after Tarvaris' injury, Childress said, "Part of this thing for Tarvaris in terms of being a quarterback as you move down the road is somewhere you've got to fight through these injuries. You watch those guys push. Tarvaris is able to look at that and see how you have to push. Not put yourself out there hurt, but there will be a point somewhere in his career where he is going to get nicked and he's going to have to push and guys are going to trust in the fact that he's getting back there. This is unfortunately a hard learning experience but something he has to go through. But it's real now. He's going to get knocked around in the pocket at some point in the future."
He is preparing him mentally and getting him geared up to start.

TJ was in the #2 QB slot before McMahon was released on Sept. 2.
Now that he is close to full power again he will be competing for the #2 slot.
If he gets back into the #2 slot and BJ starts to turn the ball over then TJ will be the man.
It's not that complicated, there are only two steps and they must occur in this order (this is assuming they are not forced to play TJ early because of a BJ injury/stinkage and a Bollinger injury/stinkage):

1. TJ has to earn the #2 slot (I can't imagine that would be difficult against Bollinger)
2. BJ has to commit a bunch of turnovers or get hurt.

If TJ cannot beat out Bollinger he does not deserve to play yet.
The coaching staff has decades of experience, they will know when TJ is ready or decide when it is time to put him in even if he isn't ready, but playing him is a necessity.

If BJ starts playing like he has during his career, wisely and with minimal turnovers there will be no TJ this year.
However, if the Vikes lock up a playoff slot early in the season (doubtful) TJ may have some reps so they can see his development and help plan for the next offseason.
If the Vikings tank and are mathematically out of the playoffs with a few games left in the season there is a good chance that TJ would see some action, so, again, the team can see if his theoretical progress translates into reality.


The only way the Vikings will be going for a relatively young Schaub-like high money unproven player to take the helm is if BJ proves his career is over and TJ doesn not convince the coaching staff that he has what it takes.
On the contrary, if BJ is done and the coaching staff still believes in TJ but they think he is not ready, they will be looking for another QB that can buy some time (i.e., another veteran that is close to circling the drain or McNairesque).

petrodemos
11-01-2006, 03:44 PM
"whackthepack" wrote:


"petrodemos" wrote:


i understand childress isnt going to make that move, i was just sayin, if there ever was an opportunity, the 4th quarter would have been it. i think the fans might have stuck around longer had the QB of the future stepped on the field, just adding a little excitement, and take away from the negativity that was the vikings losing. one thing is for sure, childress is stubborn. but is he Denny green stubborn or bellycheck stubborn.



Bring a rookie into that situation?
Not a frickin chance in helll!

You are way wrong Petro if you think they should have brought T-Jack into the Pats game when they took out Brad!


Here rookie I am going to throw you into a game that a 11 year pro can't handle and see what you can do, yeah right!


did parcells not do that with romo 2 weeks ago? romos no rookie, but he sat a 10 year vet in the second half for the second stringer, the future of the franchise as it were.

Look the game was lost, TJ would at least have taken off on those plays bowlicker got sacked on and ran for a first down. i dont think you can worry about which team your going to play, oh no, lets not hurt his feelings, hes playing the patriots...or the bears, what are you going to do when he is ready? sit him against the bears or he might get hurt, that shows some confidence. it would have done one of two things, same thing could have happend to him that happened to bollinger and we all would have said, oh well, it was the patriots after all, OR he would have shown some sweet plays and shown some quickness and promise for the future giving us hope once more.

i think brad should have finished the game or the future of the franchise should have come in. bowlicker in there says, we give up, we dont have anthing else and we just want to go home. and they did, even the O line gave up. Memo was the only one that wanted to finish the game as far as i could tell.

Del Rio
11-01-2006, 03:56 PM
"petrodemos" wrote:


"whackthepack" wrote:


"petrodemos" wrote:


i understand childress isnt going to make that move, i was just sayin, if there ever was an opportunity, the 4th quarter would have been it. i think the fans might have stuck around longer had the QB of the future stepped on the field, just adding a little excitement, and take away from the negativity that was the vikings losing. one thing is for sure, childress is stubborn. but is he Denny green stubborn or bellycheck stubborn.



Bring a rookie into that situation?
Not a frickin chance in helll!

You are way wrong Petro if you think they should have brought T-Jack into the Pats game when they took out Brad!


Here rookie I am going to throw you into a game that a 11 year pro can't handle and see what you can do, yeah right!


did parcells not do that with romo 2 weeks ago? romos no rookie, but he sat a 10 year vet in the second half for the second stringer, the future of the franchise as it were.

Look the game was lost, TJ would at least have taken off on those plays bowlicker got sacked on and ran for a first down. i dont think you can worry about which team your going to play, oh no, lets not hurt his feelings, hes playing the patriots...or the bears, what are you going to do when he is ready? sit him against the bears or he might get hurt, that shows some confidence. it would have done one of two things, same thing could have happend to him that happened to bollinger and we all would have said, oh well, it was the patriots after all, OR he would have shown some sweet plays and shown some quickness and promise for the future giving us hope once more.

i think brad should have finished the game or the future of the franchise should have come in. bowlicker in there says, we give up, we dont have anthing else and we just want to go home. and they did, even the O line gave up. Memo was the only one that wanted to finish the game as far as i could tell.


Lets take a step back here for one second.

Romo was the second string QB. Parcells told him before the game to be ready to play. Romo must have shown something to Parcells in practices that made him believe they could win with him.

Don't try and make it sound like Bledsoe was his guy and then out of blue he made a decision on a whim and threw Romo in there.

If anyone is going in it's Bollinger. He is the #2

whackthepack
11-01-2006, 03:58 PM
And Romo got killed and looked terrible!
Same as Bledsoe did!

whackthepack
11-01-2006, 04:05 PM
Bledsoe

7 / 12,
111 yards,
1 INT,
0 TD's,
Sacked
4 times

Romo


14 / 25,
227 yards,
3 INT's,
2 TD's,
sacked twice


Romo is a 4 year veteran also, not a division 2 rookie!


Romo did not even look as good as his stats indicate.

petrodemos
11-01-2006, 04:20 PM
yes, i know romo is no rookie. i believe i said that before. two weeks ago bledsoe got benched for what i call a QB of the future. TJ is our QB of the future, the comparisons stop there for me.

putting Romo in there created a stirr, the fans got excited, yes they got dissapointed the very next play, lol. and thats what i was saying, the same could have happened to TJ that could have happened to Romo. and if TJ hasent shown the coaching staff what he can do, then why did they draft him?

bolinger is another
tj osullivan or mike mcmahon.

Del, i KNOW that bolinger is the sencond stringer, im not talking about wether he is or not.

Tjack was coming off injury, in that case no, dont play im till hes healthy. second, IF he were healthy, who has more knowledge of the Offense? Bollinger who came on board 1st week of the season or Tjack whose been here since the draft. i understand everything everyone is saying. its all speculation, and humble opinions. Let the season commense.

Del Rio
11-01-2006, 05:06 PM
"petrodemos" wrote:


yes, i know romo is no rookie. i believe i said that before. two weeks ago bledsoe got benched for what i call a QB of the future. TJ is our QB of the future, the comparisons stop there for me.

putting Romo in there created a stirr, the fans got excited, yes they got dissapointed the very next play, lol. and thats what i was saying, the same could have happened to TJ that could have happened to Romo. and if TJ hasent shown the coaching staff what he can do, then why did they draft him?

bolinger is another
tj osullivan or mike mcmahon.

Del, i KNOW that bolinger is the sencond stringer, im not talking about wether he is or not.

Tjack was coming off injury, in that case no, dont play im till hes healthy. second, IF he were healthy, who has more knowledge of the Offense? Bollinger who came on board 1st week of the season or Tjack whose been here since the draft. i understand everything everyone is saying. its all speculation, and humble opinions. Let the season commense.


I am assuming Bollinger since he was made the second string QB BEFORE Tjack was hurt

thevikingfan
11-01-2006, 05:30 PM
"Gift" wrote:


One Bright Note,

Our run defense will still be #1!

and probably will stay that way the rest of the year cuz there is really no need to run on us.


wrong it is now 2 behind baltimore

VikemanX84
11-01-2006, 05:41 PM
I honestly think people are making a too big a deal out of the fact that Tarvaris is #3 and not #2.
I think this just means that Tarvaris isn't going to get into a close game due to injury.
Childress doesn't want to have to put him in that situation.
If Tarvaris is going to play it is going to be in garbage time late in the 4th or he is going to start.
This is the same thing that Washington has admitted to doing with Jason Campbell.
They said he was never going to be their #2 guy.
He was going to jump from 1st to 3rd.

Also just because a guy is a certain spot ont he depth chart doesn't mean that is necessarily the right place for him.

Some examples from the past:

Tom Brady was inexperienced and behind Drew Bledsoe. That didn't make Bledsoe the right decision.

Marc Bulger was 3rd on the depth chart and he was probably better than Warner and definitely better than Martin.

Willie Parker was a 3rd string running back and was better than Pitts #2.

And there are, of course, many more
but I don't have much time before I have to go to diner.

So before I go here is the scenario that I can see happening... Brad sucks it up (again) and Childress puts in Bollinger who sucks it up and he plays for the rest of the game and then makes Tarvaris the starter for the following week.
I think that is the only way tarvaris is going to get into the game.

NodakPaul
11-01-2006, 06:08 PM
"VikemanX84" wrote:


Tom Brady was inexperienced and behind Drew Bledsoe. That didn't make Bledsoe the right decision.

Marc Bulger was 3rd on the depth chart and he was probably better than Warner and definitely better than Martin.

Willie Parker was a 3rd string running back and was better than Pitts #2.


Neither Brady or Bulger were better than Bledsoe or Warner halfway through their rookie year.
They were given the time to learn the game, just like we will give TJ.
Yes, I agree that given time, TJ will be a better QB than BJ is right now.

As far as Parker, running back is a different type of position than QB.
There isn't as much to learn the first year.

I don't understand why so many people think a Div 1AA (or was it Div II, can't remember right now) can just step right in and play at an NFL level...

Gift
11-01-2006, 06:11 PM
"thevikingfan" wrote:


"Gift" wrote:


One Bright Note,

Our run defense will still be #1!

and probably will stay that way the rest of the year cuz there is really no need to run on us.


wrong it is now 2 behind baltimore
I know
:'(

Desertvikingfan
11-01-2006, 06:18 PM
I don't understand why so many people think a Div 1AA (or was it Div II, can't remember right now) can just step right in and play at an NFL level...
It's called 'theguybehind theguystartingishofandshouldbestarting-itis'
It's spread during the occasionsl bad performance of a starting QB. There is no known treatment. Reason has been tried in the past to no avail.
;)

Del Rio
11-01-2006, 06:31 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


"VikemanX84" wrote:


Tom Brady was inexperienced and behind Drew Bledsoe. That didn't make Bledsoe the right decision.

Marc Bulger was 3rd on the depth chart and he was probably better than Warner and definitely better than Martin.

Willie Parker was a 3rd string running back and was better than Pitts #2.


Neither Brady or Bulger were better than Bledsoe or Warner halfway through their rookie year.
They were given the time to learn the game, just like we will give TJ.
Yes, I agree that given time, TJ will be a better QB than BJ is right now.

As far as Parker, running back is a different type of position than QB.
There isn't as much to learn the first year.

I don't understand why so many people think a Div 1AA (or was it Div II, can't remember right now) can just step right in and play at an NFL level...


Exaclty Nodak, the examples do not work.
There is no reason to put your guy at #3 he was put there before he was hurt.

I think it is a stretch, but I do agree with your scenerio of him actually getting to play.

cajunvike
11-01-2006, 06:32 PM
Sammy White's Rookie Stats..oh BTW, he went to Grambling (a D-IAA school):

51 catches,
906 yards,
17.8 avg,
10 TDs.

Del Rio
11-01-2006, 06:35 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:


Sammy White's Rookie Stats..oh BTW, he went to Grambling (a D-IAA school):

51 catches,
906 yards,
17.8 avg,
10 TDs.


Give us some Div IAA stats from a QB coming into the NFL that starts his first season.

cogitans
11-01-2006, 07:06 PM
Here's a quote from Childress in his latest pressconference (http://vikings.com/news_detail_objectname_QuotesOnNiners11106.html)

Q: Do you see Tarvaris Jackson working his way into the #2 spot as the year goes on or do you see it kind of staying like it is?
A: I probably see it staying kind of like it is. I'd have to have probably a drastic reason to do that. I kind of like it the way it is. He's getting the turns he is getting. He is still growing within the system. He's able to take a look at it and observe. Obviously there is no junior varsity team. He doesn't get to play on Monday morning or anything like that. We love the competition but we love the competition for all of those guys. When we talk about rotating people and keeping them fresh, it's not something that you do at the quarterback position. Defensive linemen, you roll. Offensive linemen, you leave. There are certain positions where you roll people in and out. That's not one of them.

Del Rio
11-02-2006, 07:29 AM
"cogitans" wrote:


Here's a quote from Childress in his latest pressconference (http://vikings.com/news_detail_objectname_QuotesOnNiners11106.html)

Q: Do you see Tarvaris Jackson working his way into the #2 spot as the year goes on or do you see it kind of staying like it is?
A: I probably see it staying kind of like it is. I'd have to have probably a drastic reason to do that. I kind of like it the way it is. He's getting the turns he is getting. He is still growing within the system. He's able to take a look at it and observe. Obviously there is no junior varsity team. He doesn't get to play on Monday morning or anything like that. We love the competition but we love the competition for all of those guys. When we talk about rotating people and keeping them fresh, it's not something that you do at the quarterback position. Defensive linemen, you roll. Offensive linemen, you leave. There are certain positions where you roll people in and out. That's not one of them.


Sounds like Tavaris will not be playing anytime soon.

Zeus
11-02-2006, 08:06 AM
"Del" wrote:


"cogitans" wrote:


Here's a quote from Childress in his latest pressconference (http://vikings.com/news_detail_objectname_QuotesOnNiners11106.html)

Q: Do you see Tarvaris Jackson working his way into the #2 spot as the year goes on or do you see it kind of staying like it is?
A: I probably see it staying kind of like it is. I'd have to have probably a drastic reason to do that. I kind of like it the way it is. He's getting the turns he is getting. He is still growing within the system. He's able to take a look at it and observe. Obviously there is no junior varsity team. He doesn't get to play on Monday morning or anything like that. We love the competition but we love the competition for all of those guys. When we talk about rotating people and keeping them fresh, it's not something that you do at the quarterback position. Defensive linemen, you roll. Offensive linemen, you leave. There are certain positions where you roll people in and out. That's not one of them.


Sounds like Tavaris will not be playing anytime soon.


Thank God.

=Z=

VikemanX84
11-02-2006, 08:39 AM
Did you see them play half-way through their rookie season? No? Then how do you know?
because they were behind them on the depth chart? Well, they were behind their respective starters when they were better too.

Its interesting how people can have the opinion that he isn't ready to start a regular season game when he certainly looked ready in the preseason (and I know, preseason is preseason but still) and thats all they have seen of him.
I'm not saying I know he is ready to play what I am saying is that we KNOW Brad and Brooks aren't good at all.
We don't know if Tarvaris is ready or if he is isn't ready.
i don't care if he is from 1-AA ball, or a rookie, he still could be decent for us this year while he is learning the ropes and since Brad has been playing awful and we prettty much know Brooks isn't much better we might as well start him.

Don't go saying we're throwing him to the wolves. We are throwing him to the 49ers (2nd worse pass defense) and the Packers (worst defense in the league) I'd hardly say those teams are "wolves".

And I think we've all been paying attention to the NFL long enough to know that just because a coach says a player isn't playing, sitting, injured, starting, or getting traded doesn't mean that isn't the case.

Del Rio
11-02-2006, 08:49 AM
"VikemanX84" wrote:


Did you see them play half-way through their rookie season? No? Then how do you know?
because they were behind them on the depth chart? Well, they were behind their respective starters when they were better too.

Its interesting how people can have the opinion that he isn't ready to start a regular season game when he certainly looked ready in the preseason (and I know, preseason is preseason but still) and thats all they have seen of him.
I'm not saying I know he is ready to play what I am saying is that we KNOW Brad and Brooks aren't good at all.
We don't know if Tarvaris is ready or if he is isn't ready.
i don't care if he is from 1-AA ball, or a rookie, he still could be decent for us this year while he is learning the ropes and since Brad has been playing awful and we prettty much know Brooks isn't much better we might as well start him.

Don't go saying we're throwing him to the wolves. We are throwing him to the 49ers (2nd worse pass defense) and the Packers (worst defense in the league) I'd hardly say those teams are "wolves".

And I think we've all been paying attention to the NFL long enough to know that just because a coach says a player isn't playing, sitting, injured, starting, or getting traded doesn't mean that isn't the case.


No WE don't know that Brad is no good at all. You THINK he is no good at all.

Posted above is Childress stating the guy is not ready. So that ends it for me. You're not going to see him unless the wheels fall off. I do not think this is some strategy to keep our "future" if he even is that safe. It is a guy who is third string because the coach thinks he isn't ready. A guy who has a huge fanbase from his performance in the pre-season where he put up nearly the same stats against 2nd and 3rd string defenses as Brad Johnson did against 1st teamers.

Time will tell I guess, as long as he is a Viking I will be cheering for him to do well when he gets his shot, I do not belive he will get his shot this season.

VikemanX84
11-02-2006, 10:19 AM
I am obviously not a member of the "Church of Brad" and by that I mean either one.
I don't trust Childress farther than I can throw him and just because he says the guy isn't ready doesn't prove it to me.
I think Childress has a lot of potential because he seems like a hard worker and he knows what he wants.
I never really thought Tice knew what he wanted (except maybe Daunte Culpepper).
I don't exactly know how to explain it.
But Childress knows what Identity he wants and Tice never seemed too.
I just hope Childress is able to admit his mistakes and be able to realize that in his first season as head coach he isn't always right and will keep an open mind.
If it is already closed to Tarvaris, then I think thats a strike against him.

I don't have anything against Brad Johnson but the only thing he can offer the team at this point is the ability to make solid decisions with the football and he hasn't been able to do that all season.
He doesn't have the long ball, he isn't accurate when hurried, he makes bad decisions in clutch situations and on 3rd sonsistently.
All he has is a good completion percentage and I don't care if he completes a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 10 or if he throws a pass down the middle fo the field, short of the first down, with no timeouts, and on third down so he can't clock the ball (the Bills game).
He sucks, he needs playmakers around him.
I'd much rather have a guy who can make things happen on his feet and can be accurate on the run.
If anyone would like to "Thank God" that the one Quarterback on our roster who has the physical tools to make plays is sitting on the bench while we start "Mr. Bring-on-the-punt-team" for God knows what reason then go ahead, we may make the playoffs but we've made the playoffs before, I've seen us win play and win playoff games. Unless one of our WRs can suddenly become a Top Player in the NFL, we won't make the Super Bowl and probably won't get out of the Wild Card round.


I'm not saying that Tarvaris is going work miracles and be the sole reason we go to a super bowl but he might just be enough of an improvement to compliment what could be a very strong running game and very strong defense and that might be just enough.
Like you say, we'll probably never know and I'm going to have to endure another offseason with idiots who say the Vikings choke when they get into the playoffs.

PurplePeopleEaters
11-02-2006, 10:33 AM
I guarantee that we will be better off if we let tarvaris sit for a year or two. The rookie QB's who play right away usually have a lot of trouble getting used to playing in the NFL and the speed of the game. Look at how good Carson Palmer was after he sat and learned behind Kitna for a while. That's exactly the mentality Childress is taking with Tarvaris.

Think about it. If we throw Tarvaris in now to play against the niners and packers i seriously think we have a chance of losing those games in a big way. With brad at the helm we will likely coast to victories. So... give up our season now by starting Tarvaris or try to make the most of our situation and leave tarvaris for the future?

Del Rio
11-02-2006, 10:38 AM
And at the end of the day that is all it boils down to is do you trust Brad Childress or do you not. Do you think you know what is better for the team then Brad Childress or do you not. Keeping in mind that it is BRAD CHILDRESSES system.

I am not one to back down from questioning authority and I enjoy the talk from both sides of the fence. Obviously I am on the support the coach and his decisions side of the fence. Especially considering he is a rookie coach and he has us in a position to go to the playoffs and is out performing many first season coaches.

What I simply cannot stand is arguments that Brad cannot throw deep, that he sucks, that he is this and he is that. First off when you have a guy throw a 40 yard strike to a WR that hits his hands and he drops it that one play right there is more then enough proof to squash any claim he cannot throw long. Furthermore I fail to see how Tavaris being in the game making that same throw will harvest better results then Brad when the WR drops the ball?

I am not arguing with you VikemanX please do not think that. I have no idea how Tavaris will play and no one else on here does either. To a degree Brad Childress doesn't know how he is going to respond to the pressure.

All I know is that a lot of these fans calling for BJ to be benched are exageratting the facts beyond reason. It is enough to say I do not like Brad Johnson I would like to see Tavaris. When claims begin to be made that simply are not true that is when discussion turns into debate and it gets ugly. Also the use of phrases "the church of brad" I see as an attempt to make something out of absolutely nothing. I have yet to see one person on this site who thinks Brad can do no wrong. I would challange anyone to direct me to a user that has never admitted he had a bad game who has blindly been able to agree he is the best that ever played the game, and back that up with posts. Because I guarantee I can post over 5 people who blindly claim he sucks and do not respond to reason or logic at all.

As far as the playoffs go, in my opinion just getting there is fine. Our young guys need the experience, our coaches need that experience of calling games on their own in the playoff atmosphere. The team needs it as a whole for morale in the system the town needs it to show a coach has come cleaned up a program and is improving it into something successful so they can be forced into a stadium deal. There is so much more to gain IMO from getting to the post season then there is to take a wild chance on something the coach doesn't want just because a few fans were impressed with what they saw in the pre-season.

All that being said I am not directing this at you or at anyone in particular.

petrodemos
11-02-2006, 10:49 AM
i just want to clear up that i do not support tarvaris jackson starting in any games this year. bolinger is 2nd string QB and will be in there when brad johnson is hurt or sucks. my thought was only to see TJ in there for the last part of a game that over. wether its right or wrong or even possible. i would have liked to see him in there. IMHO. thats all folks. ;D

edit: Brad Johnson is the only QB who should start for the vikes to be able to win.

Suick
11-02-2006, 11:47 AM
[quote author=Del Rio link=topic=28718.msg492676#msg492676 date=1162481919]


What I simply cannot stand is arguments that Brad cannot throw deep, that he sucks, that he is this and he is that. First off when you have a guy throw a 40 yard strike to a WR that hits his hands and he drops it that one play right there is more then enough proof to squash any claim he cannot throw long.[quote]


Amen to that. I'm VERY dissappointed in Williamson. He was supposed to be Moss' replacement at a #7 draft pick.


Also, our million dollar O-line cannot pass block worth diddly-do.

VikemanX84
11-02-2006, 01:34 PM
Yeah, sorry, it does kind of seem like I am making this a personal debate.
I respond to different points made by people and use the word "you" to sometimes mean people on the other side of the fence as me or just because I am responding to point that a person made.


I think making the playoffs is better than not making the playoffs but I want our goal to be a super bowl and not playoffs.
So when people say "we're going to make the playoffs" I think well thats nice but I want to win the playoffs.

Also, Peyton manning received the Starting job halfway through his rookie season and I'd take him over Carson Palmer any day fo the week and twice on Sunday.
Eli Manning is comming along very nicely and he started half-way through his rookie season.
Big Ben Roethlisberger was able to be enough of an improvement over Tommy Moddox to get the Steelers to the AFC Championship his rookie year.
Some quarterbacks benefit from sitting one to two years but I think it is a myth that rookie quarterbacks can't start and be effective or that sitting them for an entire si the best way to bring them in. Certainly there is much evidence for both sides.

Anyways, I think its about time to put this discussion to rest, at least untill next week when there is more to discuss. I think Brad Johnson has played horribly this year, Brad Childress is making a mistake by keeping him in there, and that Tarvaris could gain valuable experience by playing now and might be able to help the team win more.
The other side is trust what the coach thinks and he thinks Tarvaris isn't ready, or Tarvaris is a rookie and rookie QBs can't make that much of a difference.

Del Rio
11-02-2006, 01:38 PM
"VikemanX84" wrote:


Yeah, sorry, it does kind of seem like I am making this a personal debate.
I respond to different points made by people and use the word "you" to sometimes mean people on the other side of the fence as me or just because I am responding to point that a person made.


I think making the playoffs is better than not making the playoffs but I want our goal to be a super bowl and not playoffs.
So when people say "we're going to make the playoffs" I think well thats nice but I want to win the playoffs.

Also, Peyton manning received the Starting job halfway through his rookie season and I'd take him over Carson Palmer any day fo the week and twice on Sunday.
Eli Manning is comming along very nicely and he started half-way through his rookie season.
Big Ben Roethlisberger was able to be enough of an improvement over Tommy Moddox to get the Steelers to the AFC Championship his rookie year.
Some quarterbacks benefit from sitting one to two years but I think it is a myth that rookie quarterbacks can't start and be effective or that sitting them for an entire si the best way to bring them in. Certainly there is much evidence for both sides.

Anyways, I think its about time to put this discussion to rest, at least untill next week when there is more to discuss. I think Brad Johnson has played horribly this year, Brad Childress is making a mistake by keeping him in there, and that Tarvaris could gain valuable experience by playing now and might be able to help the team win more.
The other side is trust what the coach thinks and he thinks Tarvaris isn't ready, or Tarvaris is a rookie and rookie QBs can't make that much of a difference.


Or Tavaris is not the future and was a byproduct of Fran Foley.

It is a soap opera really and if we can just manage to win I could care less who is in there.
;D

You can bet your ass we will be discussing this every week lol!

NodakPaul
11-02-2006, 01:53 PM
Or, rookie QBs can make a difference, but it is the execption not the rule... especially when the QB comes from a Div 1AA school.
The examples listed were all Div I, and high first round picks.

VikemanX84, I will agree with you on this point:
I don't think we will make it far in the playoffs with our current offense.
Something needs to happen to avoid having the playoffs look like last Monday's game.
I just don't think TJ is the answer right now.

patriotswinagain
11-02-2006, 08:09 PM
"stateVIKE44" wrote:


There are waaaay too many bad things to talk about. But, my first thought is.....that "incomplete pass" to Wiggins that got reviewed was one of the worst I've seen in a while!


Same thing happend to the Pats against Buffalo the week before. So obvious. Same thing happend in Dallas game week before, obvious call yet not made. How about the Indy Steelers game last playoff season, they tried to give the game away to Indy. THat knee was DOWN. How come the game with replay is getting so corrupt??

patriotswinagain
11-02-2006, 08:17 PM
"minvikes01" wrote:


the officials and our dbs screwed us up the a$$


THe wiggins call was bad bad bad , happend to the Pats the week before, obvious call never made on replay. Makes everyone look blind. But don't blame the DB's because they faollowed the game plan. You got beat in every facet of the game except run defense. Blame the coach and sometimes you just got to take your aht off. Not SB Champs 3 out of 4 yrs and perhaps this year. You'll do fine, Denver kicked out Butt and they don't impress me at all. Brad Johnson best stop the stupid throws, outside of that , youll be fine. Offense seemed very weak but you had injuries no? Why didn't your defense go man to man versus so much cover 2 and getting burned?? Coaching, not players, except penaliites and Brad

cajunvike
11-02-2006, 08:31 PM
"patriotswinagain" wrote:


"minvikes01" wrote:


the officials and our dbs screwed us up the a$$


THe wiggins call was bad bad bad , happend to the Pats the week before, obvious call never made on replay. Makes everyone look blind. But don't blame the DB's because they faollowed the game plan. You got beat in every facet of the game except run defense. Blame the coach and sometimes you just got to take your aht off. Not SB Champs 3 out of 4 yrs and perhaps this year. You'll do fine, Denver kicked out Butt and they don't impress me at all. Brad Johnson best stop the stupid throws, outside of that , youll be fine. Offense seemed very weak but you had injuries no? Why didn't your defense go man to man versus so much cover 2 and getting burned?? Coaching, not players, except penaliites and Brad


The REFS gave you guys that game on a silver platter!
:D