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UndisputedVike
10-19-2006, 01:18 AM
Fred Smoot

One thing I’ve noticed in my time covering this team is the amount of hate directed toward CB Fred Smoot I just can’t quite figure it out.
Is he Deion Sanders? Clearly he’s not, despite possessing an ego roughly the same size. But is it really fair to hold him to that standard? I don’t think so.

People point to him playing so far off receivers and having balls caught in front of him. Understand that he’s only doing what the defensive coaches are telling him to do and keeping teams from making the big play over the top. Only two teams in the NFL have given up fewer TD passes than the Vikings, a direct result of how well Smoot and the rest of the secondary is executing their assignments.

Rule changes in the NFL do not allow for a “shut down” corner to exist anymore so it’s unfair to put those sorts of expectations on Smoot. People need to get over the fact that he has a big contract and a mouth to match and be happy with the fact that a repeat of last year’s Steve Smith game seems highly unlikely with the way Smoot is playing right now. You don’t have to like him as a person, but to trash him for not giving up touchdowns seems a bit backwards to me.

http://vikings.kfan.com/sports/nflguide/local/story.aspx?content_id=C80E22AB-6ACF-49F3-A741-0B8FEFF2F8B2

DPep11
10-19-2006, 01:39 AM
If he was like Champ Bailey, he wouldn't have to leave such a cushion. I'd like to believe that and give smoot some slack, but I'm not really fond of smoot anyway.

PacNWVike
10-19-2006, 01:52 AM
"DPep11" wrote:


If he was like Champ Bailey, he wouldn't have to leave such a cushion. I'd like to believe that and give smoot some slack, but I'm not really fond of smoot anyway.


I'm a fan of the "mug and jam" corner.
Slam'em at the line and keep pounding them in the five yard zone.
Messes up the pattern and the timing.
But it's hard for Smoot to do that if he's ten yards off the receiver.
Of course, if you're lined up against Shockey, Big Jimmy, etc., that could be difficult...

;)

canadian_vikes_fan
10-19-2006, 02:15 AM
"DPep11" wrote:


If he was like Champ Bailey, he wouldn't have to leave such a cushion. I'd like to believe that and give smoot some slack, but I'm not really fond of smoot anyway.


But Smoot isn't like Champ Bailey, and he never will be. And expecting him to be that good is completely unfair.

Although I'm not all the crazy about him either, I do think he takes a lot of shit that he doesn't deserve from fans. He was never brought in here to be the next Champ Bailey, and anyone who thought that is retarded.

But you look at the secondary now, and compare it to the secondary we had a few years ago, and we've had a HUGE improvement. Of course, a lot of that is also Winfield and Sharper, but Smoot isn't the kind of sieve that we used to have.

Is he overpaid? Yes.
Does he still contribute to the team? Yes.

digital420
10-19-2006, 02:56 AM
I have seen lots of people bash smoot.. he's taken sooooo much flack and everyone I talk to back home has nothing but disgruntled things to say bout him.

so far our D has proven they are something of a force to deal with.

O's that we've kept under 20 points.. (and that's every O we've faced) have scored 30's and 40's on other teams. so.. if u ask me.. seems everyone is playing thair position.. and making the plays they need to be making. I don't see smoot winning over the state of mn.. but i hpe i see some more faith in the players we have..

DiGiTaL

ultravikingfan
10-19-2006, 05:16 AM
"canadian_vikes_fan" wrote:


"DPep11" wrote:


If he was like Champ Bailey, he wouldn't have to leave such a cushion. I'd like to believe that and give smoot some slack, but I'm not really fond of smoot anyway.


But Smoot isn't like Champ Bailey, and he never will be. And expecting him to be that good is completely unfair.

Although I'm not all the crazy about him either, I do think he takes a lot of pooh that he doesn't deserve from fans. He was never brought in here to be the next Champ Bailey, and anyone who thought that is Challenged Hillbilly Lover'd.

But you look at the secondary now, and compare it to the secondary we had a few years ago, and we've had a HUGE improvement. Of course, a lot of that is also Winfield and Sharper, but Smoot isn't the kind of sieve that we used to have.

Is he overpaid? Yes.
Does he still contribute to the team? Yes.


Nice post.

The guy is not worth the $$$ we paid him.
And to make matters worse, he ran his mouth a whole lot last year.

If he did not run his mouth and had a lower salary, he would be average.
Its not like he is out there giving 100% on every play.

singersp
10-19-2006, 07:20 AM
Once again, the cushion being so soft must be what the coaching scheme is calling for. Smoots not playing that far off intentionally. So I don't see why people are bashing him for it.

Some people give me the impression that they think Smoot is saying, "Screw you coach, I'm playing 10 yards off my guy regardless of what you say".

Sorry, but if Tomlin doesn't want him playing that far off the ball, he would have corrected the situation or benched Smoot already.

If you pay attention, you'll see Winfield playing that far off the receivers as well.

It's a zone defense & I've seen Winfield get passes caught underneath him as well, but he tackles them immediately.

There in lies the biggest problem with Smoot, besides being way overpaid.

His inability to tackle the receiver & lack of intensity to go after the ball carrier after the catch & tackle him, is what makes him a mediocre DB & why I think that he is.

As with any player that's fans despise on the team, fans will look for anything & everything to pin blame or fault on that player & turn their heads to other players they like, who do similar things.

I believe it was the Bears game where I watched Winfield give up at least two 3rd & long passes. If I recall correctly, one was like 3rd & 17. He tackled his player immediately, which Smoot would have a tough time doing, but the chains moved nevertheless.

Not one thread was started about that, but I'll bet if Smoot was the cover guy on those plays, there would have been multiple threads started about it before the game even ended.

thepacksux
10-19-2006, 11:33 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"canadian_vikes_fan" wrote:


"DPep11" wrote:


If he was like Champ Bailey, he wouldn't have to leave such a cushion. I'd like to believe that and give smoot some slack, but I'm not really fond of smoot anyway.


But Smoot isn't like Champ Bailey, and he never will be. And expecting him to be that good is completely unfair.

Although I'm not all the crazy about him either, I do think he takes a lot of pooh that he doesn't deserve from fans. He was never brought in here to be the next Champ Bailey, and anyone who thought that is Challenged Hillbilly Lover'd.

But you look at the secondary now, and compare it to the secondary we had a few years ago, and we've had a HUGE improvement. Of course, a lot of that is also Winfield and Sharper, but Smoot isn't the kind of sieve that we used to have.

Is he overpaid? Yes.
Does he still contribute to the team? Yes.


Nice post.

The guy is not worth the $$$ we paid him.
And to make matters worse, he ran his mouth a whole lot last year.

If he did not run his mouth and had a lower salary, he would be average.
Its not like he is out there giving 100% on every play.


How can you say he isn't out there trying hard on every play???
I have never seen him take a play off or not try to make a tackle.
He is willing to throw his body at just about anyone in order to make a tackle, even though it may be a poorly executed tackle.
Winfield has just as many balls caught on him as smoot does but everybody turns a blind eye to this because they like his hitting style
(myself included).
I do agree that smoot could be a better tackler but he is superior to winfield when it comes to coverage.
He has better speed and turns his hips better than any corner on the team.
And at his contract, he souldn't be compared to roland "champ" bailey anyway.
I think his contract is somewhere around the 50 to 60 million dollar range.

Del Rio
10-19-2006, 11:36 AM
"thepacksux" wrote:


"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"canadian_vikes_fan" wrote:


"DPep11" wrote:


If he was like Champ Bailey, he wouldn't have to leave such a cushion. I'd like to believe that and give smoot some slack, but I'm not really fond of smoot anyway.


But Smoot isn't like Champ Bailey, and he never will be. And expecting him to be that good is completely unfair.

Although I'm not all the crazy about him either, I do think he takes a lot of pooh that he doesn't deserve from fans. He was never brought in here to be the next Champ Bailey, and anyone who thought that is Challenged Hillbilly Lover'd.

But you look at the secondary now, and compare it to the secondary we had a few years ago, and we've had a HUGE improvement. Of course, a lot of that is also Winfield and Sharper, but Smoot isn't the kind of sieve that we used to have.

Is he overpaid? Yes.
Does he still contribute to the team? Yes.


Nice post.

The guy is not worth the $$$ we paid him.
And to make matters worse, he ran his mouth a whole lot last year.

If he did not run his mouth and had a lower salary, he would be average.
Its not like he is out there giving 100% on every play.


How can you say he isn't out there trying hard on every play???
I have never seen him take a play off or not try to make a tackle.
He is willing to throw his body at just about anyone in order to make a tackle, even though it may be a poorly executed tackle.
Winfield has just as many balls caught on him as smoot does but everybody turns a blind eye to this because they like his hitting style
(myself included).
I do agree that smoot could be a better tackler but he is superior to winfield when it comes to coverage.
He has better speed and turns his hips better than any corner on the team.
And at his contract, he souldn't be compared to roland "champ" bailey anyway.
I think his contract is somewhere around the 50 to 60 million dollar range.


This is not pee wee football. Effort does not equal succeess. He does throw his body around and it gets him hurt. He misses tackles all the time.

There is something to be said for effort no doubt but at this level results pay off more then effort if he tries his hardest and still cant get the job done then he needs to move on.

thepacksux
10-19-2006, 11:43 AM
I wasn't trying to defend his tackling skills, merely the fact that he is not out there pulling a moss and taking plays off.
I don't think he will be leaving the team anytime too soon.
He made a very nice tackle on schleshinger on third down in the lions game that was perfectly executed.
He also whiffed on one against hakim during the lions third quarter drive that resulted in a touchdown.
The difference between him and winfield is that he is much less likely to give up a longer route.
You dont see very many teams throwing 15 yd passes on him.
However, they do throw deep against winfield.


Dont think i dont like winfield because of my comparisons, he is definitely one of my fav players on the team.
I am merely trying to say that smoot is still better than a lot of the corners in the league and we could definitely be worse off.

MetalMike-LoudVike
10-19-2006, 11:57 AM
People are gonna say what they want to say about SMOOOOT, I think he has definetly made some big tackles on 3rd down I have seen him make a few of them So as long as he is behaveing off-field and contributing to what is a exceptional secondary. he is a high dollar player. I only wish he wasnt playing that 8 yard away from opposing recievers that kinda annoys me but hey I am spectator. I just watch
how he plays.
SMOOT he played pretty good so far in my view but hey we got alot football to be played.
MMLV

Mr. Purple
10-19-2006, 12:45 PM
You make a good point...I think we as fans expected too much outta Smoot.Just becuase we gave him hefty contract, dosnt mean hes the second coming of Deion.Look at the contract Brian Williams got...I know alot of us sure didnt think he was worth that kind of money.IMO its hard to find a "decent" CB in the NFL.Thiers always gonna be the superstar corners, but CB is a tough position.I think Smoot is doing fine this season, not amazing, but fine.

V4L
10-19-2006, 12:55 PM
Smoot is solid.. And im happy with him.. As long as our D is ranked 5th and we are winning I could care less how much money he is making cuz he is doing a servicable job..

He is a solid tackler.. Making big tackles on 3rd down.. I thought it was Winny and then I see Smoot jump up off the turf..

And Singer u hit the nail right on the head.. The 10 yard cushion is the coaching scheme, not Smoot saying I want to play 10 yards off

He wouldn't be a good jammer most likley is what i'm thinking since we don't have him jam at the line.. So why make him do it if he's gonna get burn't hardcore that way?






One Love

Big C
10-19-2006, 01:00 PM
I agree. I think Tomlin is intentionally giving Smoot that cusion to let him get his confidence back. That bastard Ted Cottrell single handedly destroyed Smoots swagger in that Carolina game last year.

Braddock
10-19-2006, 01:02 PM
"WilliamsonOfTroy" wrote:


You make a good point...I think we as fans expected too much outta Smoot.Just becuase we gave him hefty contract, dosnt mean hes the second coming of Deion.Look at the contract Brian Williams got...I know alot of us sure didnt think he was worth that kind of money.IMO its hard to find a "decent" CB in the NFL.Thiers always gonna be the superstar corners, but CB is a tough position.I think Smoot is doing fine this season, not amazing, but fine.




I agree. He's getting the job done, behaving off the field and hasn't let that "big play" happen. Our secondary is supposed to look out for each other back their, and if they all do their jobs, like all of them are, then we'll have a top 5 defense, which we do. So he's a little mouthy and isn't the superstar on the team...... oh well. We need someone to be mouthy. We can't have a team of quiet choir boys. Bring some flash and expectations to our team, make us achieve more than what we have. So i say we keep him.

RK.
10-19-2006, 01:22 PM
I like Smoot.
I like his attitude.
I like his trash talk.
I like his play.
I don't get why fans trash a guy that gives his best every week to our team.
He has come up with some big plays this year.
In some ways the trashing of Smoot reminds me of the crap we heard from fans last year about Napo.
Stop judging players on how they played last year.
It wasn't their fault.
It was Cotrells fault.
Lots of players looked awful last year in that weak D scheme.
Get over it.

PurpleRide
10-19-2006, 01:28 PM
Some brilliant fans still have a grudge against smoot because of the boat thing.
I dont understand at all, mr williams driving drunk is far more dangerous and offensive to me personally, but he didnt pull out the toys on two women.
Wait a min., is there something i am missing about the gen pop of vikings fans?
Its ok to drink and drive IF you are a hard hitter, but IF you have fun with sex toys with multiple women you need to be traded.
Hmmmm

Del Rio
10-19-2006, 01:29 PM
The only things I do not like about Smoot.

1) He can't tackle very well.
2) His form is horrible and it leads to injuries
3) We could have gotten better CB's for less money.
4) He has gained weight and it is showing on his play.

The guy has always made his name off taking risks. Sometimes they paid off sometimes they didn't. In Tomlins D he doesn't get that opportunity because he is covering field and not people.

He just doesn't fit here IMO. He has all season to make a liar out of me and I hope and pray he does.

BigMoInAZ
10-19-2006, 01:41 PM
Opened this thread expecting to read some crazy headlines about Smoot's off-week!
::)

Say what you will about Fred Smoot, but in the end, he plays football for a living and the rest of you wannabes talk out the sides of your mouths without having the first inkling of what it takes to play the sport.
Now, don't get upset by that statement, it's just a FACT!

Smoot is being paid the going rate for a CB of any caliber in the NFL today so to bash him because he somehow doesn't live up to your expected level of performance would be like me saying Brad Johnson is playing to his pay level performance wise! ::)

I think we could have done better in the pursuit of available free agents but trades were involved in most key instances such as with Champ Bailey.
I for one wish this team had gone after Chris McAllister when he was a free agent, but maybe the price tag was too high for consideration.
Who knows, it's all second guessing and hind sight anyways!

We got Smoot, we got Winfield, and we got......

well, you get the picture!

Del Rio
10-19-2006, 01:46 PM
"BigMoInAZ" wrote:


Opened this thread expecting to read some crazy headlines about Smoot's off-week!

::)

Say what you will about Fred Smoot, but in the end, he plays football for a living and the rest of you wannabes talk out the sides of your mouths without having the first inkling of what it takes to play the sport.
Now, don't get upset by that statement, it's just a FACT!

Smoot is being paid the going rate for a CB of any caliber in the NFL today so to bash him because he somehow doesn't live up to your expected level of performance would be like me saying Brad Johnson is playing to his pay level performance wise! ::)

I think we could have done better in the pursuit of available free agents but trades were involved in most key instances such as with Champ Bailey.
I for one wish this team had gone after Chris McAllister when he was a free agent, but maybe the price tag was too high for consideration.
Who knows, it's all second guessing and hind sight anyways!

We got Smoot, we got Winfield, and we got......

well, you get the picture!


Your absolutely right about us not playing, but unfortunately it makes absolutely no difference in our ability to observe and comment on those observations. If your attitude ruled there would be no reason to have a forum to discuss players or football at all.

You pay probowl $$ you want probowl production. He is not getting paid the going rate for a dime back.

tb04512
10-19-2006, 02:18 PM
"BigMoInAZ" wrote:


Opened this thread expecting to read some crazy headlines about Smoot's off-week!

::)

Say what you will about Fred Smoot, but in the end, he plays football for a living and the rest of you wannabes talk out the sides of your mouths without having the first inkling of what it takes to play the sport.
Now, don't get upset by that statement, it's just a FACT!

Smoot is being paid the going rate for a CB of any caliber in the NFL today so to bash him because he somehow doesn't live up to your expected level of performance would be like me saying Brad Johnson is playing to his pay level performance wise! ::)

I think we could have done better in the pursuit of available free agents but trades were involved in most key instances such as with Champ Bailey.
I for one wish this team had gone after Chris McAllister when he was a free agent, but maybe the price tag was too high for consideration.
Who knows, it's all second guessing and hind sight anyways!

We got Smoot, we got Winfield, and we got......

well, you get the picture!





BJ is playing for the money he is getting because he is getting a backups pay for being a starter.... smoot on the other hand cant tackle and thats a big part of playing cb, and when its 3rd and short he needs to play closer, i agree tho tomlin is trying to get him where he used to be..

651Vikes
10-19-2006, 04:00 PM
Smoot can't tackle??

I think you guys are too used to Winfield's skills. I watch other top corners from other teams and they miss tackle probably just as much as Smoot. Winfield is like 99% tackling corner. Is there any other CBs that has that ability?

Smoot is good for this scheme. I have seen Smoot play jam the reciever, I don't recall him ever getting beat when he does. But you can't always play up at the line of scrimmage. For example, if you get gashed with a run up the middle and can't help support the run D in anyway, theres a chance for a long run and you may need to be part of the last line of defense (DBs?). But if you play off and can now become an obstackle for the runner and the WRs even if they are having to just block you...

Its a mind game and you must choose what game you want to play. I've mostly seen Tomlin call tight coverage when hes very sure it is a pass play and brings the house. Otherwise, Its been rare to see.

:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(

Del Rio
10-19-2006, 04:03 PM
"651Vikes" wrote:


Smoot can't tackle??

I think you guys are too used to Winfield's skills. I watch other top corners from other teams and they miss tackle probably just as much as Smoot. Winfield is like 99% tackling corner. Is there any other CBs that has that ability?

Smoot is good for this scheme. I have seen Smoot play jam the reciever, I don't recall him ever getting beat when he does. But you can't always play up at the line of scrimmage. For example, if you get gashed with a run up the middle and can't help support the run D in anyway, theres a chance for a long run and you may need to be part of the last line of defense (DBs?). But if you play off and can now become an obstackle for the runner and the WRs even if they are having to just block you...

Its a mind game and you must choose what game you want to play. I've mostly seen Tomlin call tight coverage when hes very sure it is a pass play and brings the house. Otherwise, Its been rare to see.

:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(


Welcome to the posting world of PPO. I don't agree, and there is footage on here somewhere of him blowing coverages and missing tackles. His form is horrible. If he is going to tackle like TOP NOTCH CB's then he should cover like them to make up for it.

That being said you have seen him make some good plays. I imagine when I say he is a horrible tackler I am over exaggerating and the truth probably lays somewhere in the middle.

651Vikes
10-19-2006, 04:32 PM
Thanks for the welcome!

Yeah, I didn't talk about his coverage abilities because I think they really are medicore. Average at best. Over paid.. probably.

Oh no its Steve Smith.. Run Smoot! Run!

ultravikingfan
10-19-2006, 04:41 PM
Wow...this is the funniest post I have ever read.

I have watched Smoot more than I have watched any other player on the Vikings.
For the money we are paying him and the flapping of his gums, he has not been a very satisfactory player.
I record all the games on DVD and have played them back and I always key on him.
Why do people think he is so great?
I know, its because our defense is a lot better that it makes him look better.

His cushion is so he does not get torched more than he already does.
I will give him this, the Lions game...he played a lot better.

V4L
10-19-2006, 04:50 PM
Smoot is average.. End of story.. Overhyped for no reason






One Love