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Del Rio
09-12-2006, 02:11 PM
Penalties are a strange thing. Some of them do not impact the game in any way. Some of them manage to turn the tides for good. I find them fascinating for a few reasons. One of them is I personally think it shows how well a team is disciplined, how much confidence they have and how much faith they have in their teammates.

Offensive lineman who feel they are getting beat are more likely to try and get that one split second extra when they fire off. 300+ pounds swaying forward in anticipation is a good thing for water buffalo mating, but for offensive lineman it is a no no. There are mental mistakes, then there is getting caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and finally there is WHAT THE **** WERE YOU THINKING!!!

Mental Mistakes would be things like false starts. Maybe the lineman is focusing on getting off the ball so early he starts the water buffalo mating ritual and sways forward? Maybe he forgot the snap count, or maybe he is dreaming of returning to his 3 million dollar home with a built in KFC and slamming down 5 full deep fried chickens……the point is his mind is not right. At least not right at that moment.

Wrong place wrong time would be something like holding. I hate to break it to you law abiding citizens but there is holding on every single play. Everyone does it, no one is above it, and if you ask an offensive lineman if they do it they will most likely tell you either A) Yes I do now go **** yourself, or B) Yes I do, but I do not get caught, or my favorite C) Absolutely not (with a big fat ass smile that says, oh yes I hold and you can’t stop me)

WTF were you thinking is self explanatory. The difference between a WTF moment and a Mental mistake is exactly 487 brain cells.

Well now that I have got that off my chest I am interested in penalties to the point of going play by play and logging who did what and what the result of that penalty lead to. By the end of the season we should have enough factual statistical evidence to utilize to bash the players we hate or to ignore or manipulate so it makes the players we like look better.

And here we go:
The Vikings had 9 penalties. Actually 10 but a penalty against Antoine Winfield was declined.

1st QTR: 2
2nd QTR: 5
3rd QTR: 2
4th QTR: NONE

M.Birk:
2
A.Hicks: 1
W.Hunter: 1 (SPECIAL TEAMS)
S. Johnson: 1
G.Blue: 1 (SPECIAL TEAMS)
TEAM: 1
(ILLEGAL FORMATION)
E.James: 1
B. Mckinnie: 1

Most of our penalties were not factors in the game. A false start that pushed us back 5 yards, but the very next play we get a first down.

There were four penalties that I consider to be huge impact penalties. Each one lead to points.

In the second Quarter Matt Birk had a holding call. We had a 1st and 10 and it turned that into a 1st and 20. We ended up punting and the skins start on the 50 yard line. Not good.

Same drive S. Johnson gets an unsportsmanlike conduct and turns a 3rd and 4 into a first and goal which turned a field goal attempt into a touchdown.

The Illegal formation was rough it turned a manageable 3rd and 7 into a 3rd and 12 which lead to a punt and the Redskins getting the ball on OUR 43 yard line. This leads to a Field Goal.

Then Mckinnie turned a 2nd and 2 into a 2nd and 7. That play put us out of field goal range and we attempted a 54 yarder.

Small mistakes that have big impacts. I am sure we will get it cleaned up and sometimes things happen. Take it for what it is worth.

NordicNed
09-12-2006, 02:38 PM
I guess if you stop and think about it, being the first game of the season, on the road, very big crowd, national TV, and being played on the 5th anniversary of that traggic day 9/11,
I can say that I'm sure alot of the penaltys where just bound to happen with everything going on in the players heads last night...



I'm sure once we get into
next few games, the penaltys will have a drastic drop in number.



Overall, the team still looked much more confident and disciplined more than I've seen in the past few years...

Del Rio
09-12-2006, 02:49 PM
"VikingNed" wrote:



I guess if you stop and think about it, being the first game of the season, on the road, very big crowd, national TV, and being played on the 5th anniversary of that traggic day 9/11,
I can say that I'm sure alot of the penaltys where just bound to happen with everything going on in the players heads last night...



I'm sure once we get into
next few games, the penaltys will have a drastic drop in number.



Overall, the team still looked much more confident and disciplined more than I've seen in the past few years...









I do not subscribe to the idea that having a lot of penalties is a death sentence. I do however think penalties that lead to points or that lead to game changing results are inexcusable.

So far I have Birk marked down for -1 and Mckinnie for -1

NordicNed
09-12-2006, 02:58 PM
"Del" wrote:


"VikingNed" wrote:



I guess if you stop and think about it, being the first game of the season, on the road, very big crowd, national TV, and being played on the 5th anniversary of that traggic day 9/11,
I can say that I'm sure alot of the penaltys where just bound to happen with everything going on in the players heads last night...



I'm sure once we get into
next few games, the penaltys will have a drastic drop in number.



Overall, the team still looked much more confident and disciplined more than I've seen in the past few years...









I do not subscribe to the idea that having a lot of penalties is a death sentence. I do however think penalties that lead to points or that lead to game changing results are inexcusable.

So far I have Birk marked down for -1 and Mckinnie for -1





Of all the names you listed above, who recieved penalty calls, I was a bit suprised to see Birk with not one but two calls against him.....




He's usually plays a spotless game....Don't hear his number announced very often, thats for sure.
And I'll agree with you, penalties that take points off the board for us or put points on the board for the other team are inexcusable and hard to swallow as a fan....

NordicNed
09-12-2006, 03:03 PM
Del, check your PM's...... ;)

Chad8970
09-12-2006, 03:07 PM
Exactly, the penalties in the first half were killing us. I don't know what Brad said to those guys at half-time, but whatever it was it worked.
Very few panalties and they scored points.

NordicNed
09-12-2006, 03:12 PM
"Chad8970" wrote:


Exactly, the penalties in the first half were killing us. I don't know what Brad said to those guys at half-time, but whatever it was it worked.
Very few panalties and they scored points.







I sure would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in that locker room at half time, I'de love to know what Brad Childress had to say also..




I wish there was more coverage of locker room speeches out there to see.
I bet some of them can get really good.....

Prophet
09-12-2006, 06:09 PM
Nice to see the penalties broken down by quarter.
I was thinking during the game that I was glad the Vikings got their penalties out of the way early and the Redsticks had their worst penalties during crunch time in a close game.
A big factor in the outcome.

Json
09-12-2006, 06:21 PM
Didn't Erasmus have a 15 yeard roughing the passer penatly?
Erasmus has got to get his head in the game.
Last year he made some real stupid mental mistakes and then again last night which is the first game of the year.
Somebody help this man!

gregair13
09-12-2006, 06:34 PM
the raiders have been a bad team for 3 years in a row now because they have lead the league in penalties each year and there is no reason they wont do it again this year.
the big costly penatlies in our game was the two by sean taylor. the hit on the sidelines i thought was a bad call. cant do anything in the game no more, but thats a whole different topic.

without the holding call, as del said, and a couple others i think we could have score 2 or 3 more times.

Del Rio
09-12-2006, 06:55 PM
"Json" wrote:


Didn't Erasmus have a 15 yeard roughing the passer penatly?
Erasmus has got to get his head in the game.
Last year he made some real stupid mental mistakes and then again last night which is the first game of the year.
Somebody help this man!



He did and it was semi costly because it turned a 3rd and 10 into a 1st and 10.

BUT they were inside the 20 already and the field goal that resulted would have been a chip shot anyway.

marshallvike
09-12-2006, 07:01 PM
wiggins had to plead and practically blow the official to get them to throw the first flag on washington, IN THE THIRD QUARTER. after that they made up for the disparity in a hurry.

Mr Anderson
09-12-2006, 07:08 PM
I remember all of these penalties,most were in the first half, and I have all of them on paper, but ESPN only showed a replay on one of them, illegal contact when Moss went out of bounds and came back in, it was Griffin who hit him, I'm pretty sure, but they showed it about 5 minutes late.

ultravikingfan
09-12-2006, 08:28 PM
"Del" wrote:


Penalties are a strange thing. Some of them do not impact the game in any way. Some of them manage to turn the tides for good. I find them fascinating for a few reasons. One of them is I personally think it shows how well a team is disciplined, how much confidence they have and how much faith they have in their teammates.

Offensive lineman who feel they are getting beat are more likely to try and get that one split second extra when they fire off. 300+ pounds swaying forward in anticipation is a good thing for water buffalo mating, but for offensive lineman it is a no no. There are mental mistakes, then there is getting caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and finally there is WHAT THE **** WERE YOU THINKING!!!

Mental Mistakes would be things like false starts. Maybe the lineman is focusing on getting off the ball so early he starts the water buffalo mating ritual and sways forward? Maybe he forgot the snap count, or maybe he is dreaming of returning to his 3 million dollar home with a built in KFC and slamming down 5 full deep fried chickens……the point is his mind is not right. At least not right at that moment.

Wrong place wrong time would be something like holding. I hate to break it to you law abiding citizens but there is holding on every single play. Everyone does it, no one is above it, and if you ask an offensive lineman if they do it they will most likely tell you either A) Yes I do now go **** yourself, or B) Yes I do, but I do not get caught, or my favorite C) Absolutely not (with a big fat jiggly butt smile that says, oh yes I hold and you can’t stop me)

WTF were you thinking is self explanatory. The difference between a WTF moment and a Mental mistake is exactly 487 brain cells.

Well now that I have got that off my chest I am interested in penalties to the point of going play by play and logging who did what and what the result of that penalty lead to. By the end of the season we should have enough factual statistical evidence to utilize to bash the players we hate or to ignore or manipulate so it makes the players we like look better.

And here we go:
The Vikings had 9 penalties. Actually 10 but a penalty against Antoine Winfield was declined.

1st QTR: 2
2nd QTR: 5
3rd QTR: 2
4th QTR: NONE

M.Birk:
2
A.Hicks: 1
W.Hunter: 1 (SPECIAL TEAMS)
S. Johnson: 1
G.Blue: 1 (SPECIAL TEAMS)
TEAM: 1
(ILLEGAL FORMATION)
E.James: 1
B. Mckinnie: 1

Most of our penalties were not factors in the game. A false start that pushed us back 5 yards, but the very next play we get a first down.

There were four penalties that I consider to be huge impact penalties. Each one lead to points.

In the second Quarter Matt Birk had a holding call. We had a 1st and 10 and it turned that into a 1st and 20. We ended up punting and the skins start on the 50 yard line. Not good.

Same drive S. Johnson gets an unsportsmanlike conduct and turns a 3rd and 4 into a first and goal which turned a field goal attempt into a touchdown.

The Illegal formation was rough it turned a manageable 3rd and 7 into a 3rd and 12 which lead to a punt and the Redskins getting the ball on OUR 43 yard line. This leads to a Field Goal.

Then Mckinnie turned a 2nd and 2 into a 2nd and 7. That play put us out of field goal range and we attempted a 54 yarder.

Small mistakes that have big impacts. I am sure we will get it cleaned up and sometimes things happen. Take it for what it is worth.



Hey Del, email me the Cliff Notes version of this thread.

Thanks.

Del Rio
09-13-2006, 07:15 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:


"Del" wrote:


Penalties are a strange thing. Some of them do not impact the game in any way. Some of them manage to turn the tides for good. I find them fascinating for a few reasons. One of them is I personally think it shows how well a team is disciplined, how much confidence they have and how much faith they have in their teammates.

Offensive lineman who feel they are getting beat are more likely to try and get that one split second extra when they fire off. 300+ pounds swaying forward in anticipation is a good thing for water buffalo mating, but for offensive lineman it is a no no. There are mental mistakes, then there is getting caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and finally there is WHAT THE **** WERE YOU THINKING!!!

Mental Mistakes would be things like false starts. Maybe the lineman is focusing on getting off the ball so early he starts the water buffalo mating ritual and sways forward? Maybe he forgot the snap count, or maybe he is dreaming of returning to his 3 million dollar home with a built in KFC and slamming down 5 full deep fried chickens……the point is his mind is not right. At least not right at that moment.

Wrong place wrong time would be something like holding. I hate to break it to you law abiding citizens but there is holding on every single play. Everyone does it, no one is above it, and if you ask an offensive lineman if they do it they will most likely tell you either A) Yes I do now go **** yourself, or B) Yes I do, but I do not get caught, or my favorite C) Absolutely not (with a big fat jiggly butt smile that says, oh yes I hold and you can’t stop me)

WTF were you thinking is self explanatory. The difference between a WTF moment and a Mental mistake is exactly 487 brain cells.

Well now that I have got that off my chest I am interested in penalties to the point of going play by play and logging who did what and what the result of that penalty lead to. By the end of the season we should have enough factual statistical evidence to utilize to bash the players we hate or to ignore or manipulate so it makes the players we like look better.

And here we go:
The Vikings had 9 penalties. Actually 10 but a penalty against Antoine Winfield was declined.

1st QTR: 2
2nd QTR: 5
3rd QTR: 2
4th QTR: NONE

M.Birk:
2
A.Hicks: 1
W.Hunter: 1 (SPECIAL TEAMS)
S. Johnson: 1
G.Blue: 1 (SPECIAL TEAMS)
TEAM: 1
(ILLEGAL FORMATION)
E.James: 1
B. Mckinnie: 1

Most of our penalties were not factors in the game. A false start that pushed us back 5 yards, but the very next play we get a first down.

There were four penalties that I consider to be huge impact penalties. Each one lead to points.

In the second Quarter Matt Birk had a holding call. We had a 1st and 10 and it turned that into a 1st and 20. We ended up punting and the skins start on the 50 yard line. Not good.

Same drive S. Johnson gets an unsportsmanlike conduct and turns a 3rd and 4 into a first and goal which turned a field goal attempt into a touchdown.

The Illegal formation was rough it turned a manageable 3rd and 7 into a 3rd and 12 which lead to a punt and the Redskins getting the ball on OUR 43 yard line. This leads to a Field Goal.

Then Mckinnie turned a 2nd and 2 into a 2nd and 7. That play put us out of field goal range and we attempted a 54 yarder.

Small mistakes that have big impacts. I am sure we will get it cleaned up and sometimes things happen. Take it for what it is worth.



Hey Del, email me the Cliff Notes version of this thread.

Thanks.


Cliffs notes Version:

Some penalties are Bad
Some are ok

singersp
09-13-2006, 07:24 AM
Just an observation & note:

If Marcus Johnson was in there at right tackle, (I don't recall) there was not one false start penalty on his part. A vast improvement from last year.

It appears the experience & discipline has paid off.

Del Rio
09-13-2006, 07:25 AM
"singersp" wrote:


Just an observation & note:

If Marcus Johnson was in there at right tackle, (I don't recall) there was not one false start penalty on his part. A vast improvement from last year.

It appears the experience & discipline has paid off.


He was indeed in there and while Birk and Mckinnie hurt us with penalties he did not. Good observation there!

Freya
09-13-2006, 08:38 AM
I have a question about illegal formation......I thought they called an illegal man down field, which I understand, but if not, what is an illegal formation? An example?


Please don't flame me.. :)

1111

Del Rio
09-13-2006, 08:49 AM
"Freya" wrote:


I have a question about illegal formation......I thought they called an illegal man down field, which I understand, but if not, what is an illegal formation? An example?


Please don't flame me.. :)

1111


We did have an ineligible man downfield on Matt Birk. It was the first penalty of the game.

We also had an Illegal formation later in the game.

An illegal formation happens when there are not 7 men on the line of scrimmage. The line of scrimmage runs from sideline to sideline, so if your WR is "on the line" he needs to signal to the ref. Or when he is off the line he signals I do not remember.

In the NFL you have to have 7 guys on the line of scrimmage or it is a penalty and it is only a 5 yard penalty.

Freya
09-13-2006, 11:03 AM
Thank you very much, Del.

Marrdro
09-13-2006, 03:41 PM
"Json" wrote:


Didn't Erasmus have a 15 yeard roughing the passer penatly?
Erasmus has got to get his head in the game.
Last year he made some real stupid mental mistakes and then again last night which is the first game of the year.
Somebody help this man!



I think you can chock EJ's up as a good one.
I was there and Brunnel didn't look quite as comfortable after that to the point that my son and I noticed that on the plays he pointed out James they passed.
On running plays he didn't.