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fromos
06-06-2006, 04:48 AM
From Bucpower.com
All In The Details

He wouldn't last long. That was the consensus opinion of Bucs followers and insiders when Coach Jon Gruden first said Brad Johnson would be his starting quarterback [in 2002]. Johnson simply didn't fit the mold Gruden had cast for the engineer of his offense. He wasn't mobile enough; wasn't diverse enough; maybe wasn't tough enough.

A funny thing happened on the way to the bench. Johnson kept impressing Gruden, first with knowledge; then with his work ethic; finally, with his play on the field. As much as Gruden wanted to have Rob Johnson's or Shaun King's play-making ability as another dynamic in his offense, he couldn't bring himself to yank Johnson off the top of the depth chart. ``I was nervous about how he fit into the equation because he was a lot different than maybe some of the visions I had coming to Tampa, philosophy-wise,' Gruden said. ``But the more I was around him, the more I learned that this guy loves football and that details mattered to him. And when I saw the ball spin out of his hand and the accuracy, I was excited about it. I learned quickly that this guy is a great pocket passer who can really throw the ball.'

Learning that was only half the battle. Accepting it was the other. Three weeks into the season, Gruden was still asking Johnson to run plays that were designed for quarterbacks such as Rich Gannon or Michael Vick. In time, Gruden adjusted his playbook. He didn't throw out the plays that called for Johnson to roll out or run a naked bootleg. He just buried them behind a bunch of plays that called for three-, five- and seven-step drops.

It didn't take long for Johnson to adjust, either. He worked overtime, learning Gruden's system, keeping Gruden at the office longer than even he wanted during two quarterback orientation sessions in February. By the time the first minicamp rolled around, Johnson knew the system well enough that he was able to put distance between himself and his two quarterback competitors. And by the middle of training camp, the Bucs' starting quarterback issue was dead. Brad Johnson was pulling away. In time, he would push the Bucs offense into a new realm.

On opening day, he was the offense's best player, the one who brought the Bucs back from a 20-10 deficit and forced overtime against the Saints by engineering two scoring drives in which he completed 11 of 18 passes for 108 yards. Weeks 2 through 5 were more of the same. Though he played behind an offensive line that was beat up and struggling and didn't have a running game to protect him, he produced a quarterback rating of 95 or better in two of those games and won all four.

He even kept the Bucs close the first time out against Philadelphia, despite taking a hit on the second play of the game that left him with a cracked rib. That rib injury cost Johnson a chance to play a week later against Carolina, but the Bucs pulled out the victory, winning the game on four Martin Gramatica field goals. A week later, Johnson was back behind center. But he didn't look the same. Somehow, he looked better. And he stayed that way.

During a critical five-game span that began with a Nov. 3 victory against Minnesota and ended with a Dec. 8 victory against Atlanta, Johnson completed 112 of 171 passes for 1,252 yards and 15 touchdowns. He was intercepted once and produced an eye-popping rating of 114.0 during that run, one in which the Bucs went 4-1 and regained first place in the NFC South Division. ``What happened was, the rest of our offense finally started to catch up to Brad,' Gruden said. ``The running game finally came around; our offensive line play improved. We just got better.'

Johnson said neither he nor the offense would have gotten better without Gruden. ``He keeps talking, keeps teaching,' Johnson said. ``He may go over one particular play a thousand times during the course of the season. You get tired of hearing it. You get tired of him constantly telling a back, `I need you to block here.' But somewhere along the line it all clicks. He builds you up and puts you into situations where you can make plays and that's all you can ask for.'

Johnson made plays this year. He made them in record numbers. When the regular season ended, he'd missed three games because of injury but still set team records for touchdown passes (22) and passer rating (92.9). He also had the lowest interception percentage in team history (1.3) and was the first Bucs quarterback to lead the NFC in passer rating. Not surprisingly, his season ended with a berth in the Pro Bowl.

It was the Super Bowl that Johnson was after, though, and if it weren't for him the Bucs might never have gotten there. After missing a month because of a bad back, he returned for the playoffs and sparkled again. In the divisional playoff game against San Francisco, Johnson sliced up the 49ers defense for 196 yards as the Bucs produced a franchise-record 329 total yards in a 31-6 victory. In the NFC Championship Game, Johnson led the Bucs to a 27-10 victory, completing 20 of 33 passes for 259 yards and a touchdown against the Eagles. ``Brad was really quite integral in our success this year,' Gruden said. ``To be honest, I'm not sure we would have done as well as we did without him.'
http://www.bucpower.com/sb37-lynch-mckay.jpg
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:qVTncwxxF9sJ:www.bucpower.com/johnson2801.html+brad-johnson&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10

Bdubya
06-06-2006, 04:51 AM
To be fair, that was 4 years ago, but I see your point and it really relates to what is happening now. Brad will show people that he still has some stuff left in his tank and that he can still lead an NFL team to the playoffs and beyond (fingers crossed).

MensaTice
06-06-2006, 04:52 AM
Who cares what a Super Bowl champion coach thinks of Brad. There are experts on this site that have proven by stating facts that Brad sucks.

WBLVikeBabe
06-06-2006, 04:54 AM
I am actually looking forward to Brad Johnson starting again, it'll be interesting to see what he can do out there.

Ltrey33
06-06-2006, 04:58 AM
"MensaTice" wrote:

Who cares what a Super Bowl champion coach thinks of Brad. There are experts on this site that have proven by stating facts that Brad sucks.

Exactly! :wink:

fromos
06-06-2006, 05:02 AM
"MensaTice" wrote:

Who cares what a Super Bowl champion coach thinks of Brad. There are experts on this site that have proven by stating facts that Brad sucks.
What facts? Last season Johnson had the 3rd best passer rating in the NFC among starting QBs:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFC/QB-PASSING/2005/regular
(anyone with a better passer rating had less than 1/4 the attempts Johnson had and started in 1 game or less)
He also had a better passer rating than 3 who went to the Pro Bowl.

and he played against the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th ranked defenses in the NFL:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2005/regular?sort_col_1=4

...and did this with no O line, no running game, his best receiver injured most of the time, and no West Coast system (25th ranked offense in the NFL.) Anyone who wants to state facts that try to show our starting QB sucks can take these facts and smoke them in their pipe.

Caine
06-06-2006, 05:28 AM
I think Mensa was using what we like to call, "sarcasm". I know, we don;t see a lot of that around here, but every once in awhile....

Caine

Ltrey33
06-06-2006, 05:37 AM
"Caine" wrote:

I think Mensa was using what we like to call, "sarcasm". I know, we don;t see a lot of that around here, but every once in awhile....

Caine

Oh! There it made another appearance.

VikesfaninWis
06-06-2006, 05:40 AM
"WBLVikeBabe" wrote:

I am actually looking forward to Brad Johnson starting again, it'll be interesting to see what he can do out there.



I agree WBL... Brad Johnson fits the mold of a true WCO type of QB... If his past proves anything this coming season, we may be hoisting the Lombardi Trophy... Lets keep our fingers crossed...

JDante
06-06-2006, 11:56 AM
Can make a case for the Hall of Fame. Check it Out.

13 year veteran.

Super Bowl CHAMPION

The only QB in the history of the NFL to complete 60% or more of his passes for nine straight seasons (Joe Montana & Steve Young are 2nd with eight straight seasons)

On 9/14/03 surpassed the 20,000-yard plateau for career passing yeads
6th highest career NFL win percentage among active quarterbacks

Highest quarterback rating in the NFC in 2002

Threw 22 touchdown passes and only 6 interceptions in 2002, 2002 Pro Bowler

2001 Established Buccaneer single-season team records for pass completions and attempts

1999 Set the Washington Redskins team record for most pass completions in a season, 1999 Pro Bowler

Holds records for the Minnesota Vikings, Washington Redskins, and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Set Tampa Bay Buccaneers Completion Records in 2001 and 2002

6 Time NFL Player of the Week

2 Time Pro Bowler

In the Top Ten in NFL history for career quarterback rating


-----------------
Anyone here think he can make the Hall?

AlabamaViking
06-06-2006, 02:45 PM
You make an impressive case to say the least. Good research on this.

Until next time...

Bdubya
06-06-2006, 02:49 PM
Well played. These are some compelling numbers, and it makes you wonder why people have continued to doubt him throughout his career.

Zeus
06-06-2006, 03:00 PM
"JDante" wrote:

Anyone here think he can make the Hall?

Only if they're delusional.

No chance. None. Nada.

=Z=

Bdubya
06-06-2006, 03:03 PM
There is no way Brad makes it to the Hall. If Jimmy Smith doesn't make it to the Hall of Fame with his numbers, then Brad can't. If he was more flashy and had more star power, maybe, but he has just been incredibly consistant.

sunny
06-06-2006, 03:14 PM
When he wins one more superbowl within the next two years :wink: he will be a shoe-in. :grin:

twill
06-06-2006, 03:19 PM
brad is a good QB, but i dont know about the Hall of Fame. The only thing that holds him back is Pro Bowl appearances. Great QBs are in the pro bowl year in and year out. (eventhough it might be a popularity contest), if you have good numbers, you will make it in there. Hes only been to the Pro Bowl twice in 13 seasons? If he would of atleast 4 pro bowl appearances then id change my opinion.

Del Rio
06-06-2006, 03:30 PM
Numbers alone will not get you into the HOF you need to stand out. You need to effect the game in a monumentous way.

There are many guys who have not made it yet, that should based on numbers but sat in the background so much they will never get in.

Brad Johnson will not be rewarded a HOF spot because he is not in the spotlight. He just shows up does his job and does it well. Society doesn't reward that behavior. Niether does the NFL.

NodakPaul
06-06-2006, 03:35 PM
BJ is a good solid QB. He makes very little mistakes, and is very consistent. Given our present QB situation, I am glad he is the starter.

But I really don't think he is HoF material given his career so far. Like Del said, numbers alone do not get you in. Now if (when?) he brings a SB victory to Minnesota this year or next, then I could see more votes swinging his way...

digital420
06-06-2006, 04:00 PM
lets wait so he can add another:

S.B ring with Minnesota
More passing records broken
2006-07 Lead the NFL in pass completion %
2006-07 (Oldest S.B winning QB?)

DiGiTaL

Foranzan
06-06-2006, 04:51 PM
If he gets a Super Bowl ring in Minnesota, he shouldn't have much trouble getting in.

But then there lies the question:

Does he go into the Hall of Fame as a Viking or a Buc? (or can they do both?)

Ltrey33
06-06-2006, 05:16 PM
"Foranzan" wrote:

If he gets a Super Bowl ring in Minnesota, he shouldn't have much trouble getting in.

But then there lies the question

Does he go into the Hall of Fame as a Viking or a Buc? (or can they do both?)I think Brad needs to do more to be considered a Hall of Famer. He either needs to be in the top 20 or 30 statistically all time in Passing yards, TDs, etc. or he needs another Super Bowl or two. If you look at the Hall of Fame quarterbacks of the last few years, you have guys like Aikman who was good, had good (but not great) numbers and won three Super Bowls, or Dan Marino/Warren Moon who had great numbers but no Super Bowls. You need one or the other, or you need to be above average in both. Brad has a Super Bowl, but doesn't have the numbers to justify it.

There's no doubt that Brad is/was a very good quarterback, but I don't think his numbers and accomplishments really warrant the HOF.

FedjeViking
06-06-2006, 05:22 PM
If he wins another ring as a Viking he'll be in the HOF.

Why? Because of his numbers and the fact he will the QB that got the Vikings their first SB win!
BIG milestone!

fromos
06-06-2006, 06:37 PM
"Ltrey33" wrote:

If you look at the Hall of Fame quarterbacks of the last few years, you have guys like Aikman who was good, had good (but not great) numbers and won three Super Bowls, or Dan Marino/Warren Moon who had great numbers but no Super Bowls.
Well when he's played he's put up the numbers needed. He already has a better career passer rating than Aikman or Moon (and all but 3 current Hall of Famers) which means as far as TD per attempts, yards per attempts, INT per attempts, and completion rate goes he has the numbers needed.

The problem is he's played so many years as backup and sat out so many games injured that he hasn't had the amount of attempts necessary to raise his gross yardage and TDs to Moon and Elway's level. He's only played 130 games (and about 14 of them weren't full games), compared to Moon's 208, Elway's 234, and Marino's 242.

purpleFavreEaters
06-06-2006, 06:53 PM
Who cares!!! That was 4 years ago. Johnson should not be our starting QB he is a washed up bumb and the only reason he won any of those games last season was because of our defense and the field placement he was put it.

fromos
06-06-2006, 06:59 PM
"purpleFavreEaters" wrote:

Who cares!!! That was 4 years ago. Johnson should not be our starting QB he is a washed up bumb and the only reason he won any of those games last season was because of our defense and the field placement he was put it.
Our defense was the 21st ranked defense in the NFL last season:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2005/regular?sort_col_1=4
Since Johnson had the 3rd best passer rating in the NFC last season among starting quarterbacks, that would make for a lot of washed up QBs in the NFC, wouldn't it? Not to mention his passer rating was better than 3 QBs who made it to the Pro Bowl. Washed up? Nah, just underappreciated by some.

purpleFavreEaters
06-06-2006, 07:10 PM
Right, any team he has ever played for has had a stellar defense nad put him in perfect field position. The 21st ranking of the Vikings defense last year is not very accuarte, it doe not really take in account for the fact our defense pulled it together late in the season which just happened to be the same time we started winning all those games.

purpleFavreEaters
06-06-2006, 07:13 PM
Not to mention fromos if you are actually trying to say Johnson is better than Aikman or Moon you have to be smoking crack.

snowinapril
06-06-2006, 07:16 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Numbers alone will not get you into the HOF you need to stand out. You need to effect the game in a monumentous way.

There are many guys who have not made it yet, that should based on numbers but sat in the background so much they will never get in.

Brad Johnson will not be rewarded a HOF spot because he is not in the spotlight. He just shows up does his job and does it well. Society doesn't reward that behavior. Niether does the NFL.

Good post!

The question is this, if you asked 10 fans, from random teams, to name the top five (heck top 10) QBs in the NFL right now, I bet BJs name might be mentioned once and it would be at the bottom of the list somewhere. He doesn't stand out and there is a reason for that. He doesn't have huge games on a consistant basis. He is a step backwards from a DC or a PM or a BF, in QB ability. He is a manager of the game.

How many managers of the game are in the HOF? Few and far between!!

fromos
06-06-2006, 08:46 PM
"purpleFavreEaters" wrote:

Not to mention fromos if you are actually trying to say Johnson is better than Aikman or Moon you have to be smoking crack.
Play for play, Johnson has outperformed both Aitkman and Moon and that's a fact no matter how much crack you need to smoke to see it. :thumbright:

His yards per attempt is higher than both of theirs, interceptions per attempt is about half either of theirs, completion percent is higher than either of theirs (though Aikman comes close), and his touchdowns per attempts is much higher than Aikmans but just a little lower than Moon (.041 vs .043, Aikmans is .035)

Johnson's outperformed Elway play for play too :idea:
It's just that he's only played about half the games these other QBs have.

PurplePeopleEaters89
06-06-2006, 08:56 PM
Well atleast he isn't crying about his contract!!!

thetrenches68OL
06-06-2006, 08:58 PM
i dont think brad will make the hall imo

cajunvike
06-06-2006, 10:09 PM
Probably not, but he may just lead us to a Super Bowl win before he's done!!! :grin:

snowinapril
06-06-2006, 11:09 PM
"PurplePeopleEaters89" wrote:

Well atleast he isn't crying about his contract!!!

If I remember right, Brad and Brad sat down and Brad told Brad that he wanted to compete or be let go................

Is that different than complaining, or so called complaining or whatever you want to call it.

Anybody in the NFL is going to have an ego of some sort, they are all competitors and want to be "the guy."

I don't see anything wrong with what Brad said, except he was under contract.

I hold nothing against DC or BJ.

fromos
06-07-2006, 12:28 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:

If I remember right, Brad and Brad sat down and Brad told Brad that he wanted to compete or be let go.................
Yeah I read that report too, saying Brad had said he'd earned a starting job last season and if he didn't get it he asked to be able to pursue other starting jobs. But then a couple of days later both Brad and Brad were denying this was what said, they said Johnson had only expressed that he wanted to start and had never asked to be traded or cut. And Childress was saying they didn't want a person on the team who didn't want to start. So who knows what really happened? All we really know is the 2003 Super Bowl winning QB doesn't want to play backup but will if he has to.

This is what he said three weeks ago however:

Johnson was less interested in a question about his contract, which calls for him to make a relatively modest $1.2 million this season.

"I've been a rookie free agent, I've been traded, I've been a free agent," he said. "I've dealt with different contracts and different situations and over time those things just take care of themselves. Usually, that's just the way I play things out."
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/14574510.htm

fromos
06-07-2006, 12:37 AM
This is also interesting:

Q: How is the communication process with Brad Johnson coming along?
A: I think you can pull him on the side every now and then. He has such a dictionary, if you will, of offense in his head. He's got his own notebooks. I've seen his notebooks. He's made tapes of plays he likes. Some of the ones we are able to adapt, some of the ones we already have in the offense, and some of them I'll probably have to tell him you know what, you need to run that when you get your own football team.
http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=178891&src=0

Can you imagine a guy like Schaub or Brees contributing this much to the rebuilding effort?

Caine
06-07-2006, 10:56 AM
Of the 23 "Modern Era" QB's in the Hall of Fame, only TEN of them have won a Superbowl. 5 who did not win, were out of Football before the "Superbowl" came into being. That still leaves 12 HOF QB's who did NOT win a SB.

Of the 25 Superbowl winning QB's, again, only 10 are in the HOF. 6 who are not, are still playing. That leaves the following Superbowl winning QB's who are NOT in the HOF: (Player - Team won with - number of SB's won)

Len Dawson – KC – 1
Ken Stabler – Oakland – 1
Jim Plunkett – Oak – 2
Joe Theismann – Wash – 1
Jim McMahon – Chi -1
Phil Simms – NY Giants – 1
Doug Williams – Wash – 1
Jeff Hostetler – NYG – 1
Mark Rypien – Wash – 1

Jim Plunkett won TWO Superbowls...but isn't in the Hall. Doug Williams was the first ever Black QB to win a SB...and isn't in the hall.

Bottom line, as Del Rio said, you need to do something MORE than simply win a Superbowl or two in order to make the Hall of Fame. Brad, unfortunately, hasn't really been that Stand-out of a Player. He's good - heck, he's DARN good - but he's not HOF good.

Caine

JellyBean2144
06-07-2006, 01:51 PM
Wow. Well, I got faith in Brad. He was decent when he first played for us, and then we traded him. He was decent for Washington and Tampa, and then we got him back. And you saw how he took over when he was added to the lineup, the guy saved our season.

Brad will again lead the Vikings into a playoff game. But the O-line has to do their part as well and give Brad the time he needs to gete the passes off. Plus, the coaches have to create an offense that is balanced. So teams don't shut down the run and leave Brad to pass 80% of the time.

Go get 'em, Brad.

ViKing24
06-07-2006, 02:18 PM
ya brad johnson will do a good job for us i mean he had a good passer rating and he didn't try to force things which leads to interceptions or fumbles. So I probably guess that we will make it to a good 10-6 this season realistcly with added weapons chester taylor, ben leber, steve hutchinson, chad greenway and cedric griffin. I think all the haters are mainly the daunte fans who just hated to see unreliable, incompetent decision maker like daunte to go. I just don't get it. Brad only lost two games and won 7 compared to daunte going 2-5. So for all you people out there i think just think that 7-2 is alot better then 2-5 for all you daunte fans out there who think he's better

Zeus
06-07-2006, 02:56 PM
"JellyBean2144" wrote:

Wow. Well, I got faith in Brad. He was decent when he first played for us, and then we traded him. He was decent for Washington and Tampa, and then we got him back. And you saw how he took over when he was added to the lineup, the guy saved our season.

Yeah. The way he stepped up and returned that punt....err....kickoff....errr...interception....errr for a TD against the Giants to kick-start the Vikes comeback was inspirational.

Look - I'd rather have Brad playing than Daunte simply because Daunte looked absolutely LOST last season. He couldn't handle playing w/out Randy and Matt Birk.

When Johnson came in, they stripped down the offense, made it much simpler, didn't ask him to make the big bomb and he played tight, efficient offense which allowed them to win certain games (St. Louis, Cleveland, etc.) against mediocre teams but also LOST them games (Pittsburgh, Baltimore) which they needed to win to make the playoffs.

There's a little something called perspective which we all need to keep in mind.

=Z=

NodakPaul
06-07-2006, 03:23 PM
I think BJ is a good QB. I also think C-Pep was a good QB. I am not on either bandwagon. I no longer like C-Pep as a player, but it has more to do with the way he worked himself into a new jersey than it does with his play. It kills me when people try to compare the two QBs based on last year's records. Yes, BJ went 7-2 and Dante went 2-5. But that doesn't automatically mean that BJ is so much better than C-Pep. You still need to take into account other factors in the game, like who their opponents were, and how the defense was performing.

In the interest of beating this horse a little more...

Just using the win-loss record is like saying that Grand Valley State is a better football team than the Illinois Fighting Illini. After all, the Illini went a paltry 2-9 last season, whereas Grand Valley was undefeated and just captured their third championship title. Of course, Grand Valley is D2 and Illinois is D1, but what teams they were playing against shouldn’t matter, right?

That being said, I still have high hopes for this season. I really do expect a 10-6 year and a payoff run. I doubt we will make the Superbowl, but I think we have a better chance now than we did at this point last season…

fromos
06-08-2006, 05:38 PM
"AWZeus" wrote:

Yeah. The way he stepped up and returned that punt....err....kickoff....errr...interception....errr for a TD against the Giants to kick-start the Vikes comeback was inspirational.
Well, considering that
-when you average out all 10 games Johnson played in last season only 2 starting QBs in the whole NFC performed better than him (and he performed better than 3 in the Pro Bowl)
-what he had to work with last season as far as O line, receivers, running game, system, and coaching,
-having gone up against the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th ranked defenses in the NFL

I'd say yeah it wasn't flashy but sure was inspirational when you look at what was accomplished.

"NodakPaul" wrote:

It kills me when people try to compare the two QBs based on last year's records...Just using the win-loss record is like saying.l..
It's not just the win-loss record. One had twice as many interceptions as touchdowns and the other had four times as many touchdowns as interceptions (and that's not counting the fumbles.)

snowinapril
06-08-2006, 06:06 PM
"Caine" wrote:


Len Dawson – KC – 1
Ken Stabler – Oakland – 1
Jim Plunkett – Oak – 2
Joe Theismann – Wash – 1
Jim McMahon – Chi -1
Phil Simms – NY Giants – 1
Doug Williams – Wash – 1
Jeff Hostetler – NYG – 1
Mark Rypien – Wash – 1


Add Brad's name to that list. Even with the pass to himself and the superbowl ring, he isn't any better off than these guys on this list.

That list with the exception of maybe Williams, Hostetler, and Rypien (matter of opinion) is a list of solid players that put some consistant years together on the field as starters for their teams.

McMahon always seems to be more of a legend than a great player.

thanatoschristou
06-08-2006, 06:26 PM
Brad is not sensational, that is why everyone doubts him. He is phenomanally efficient, getting things done slowly; no explosions, but no implosions.

Brad will be fine next year. He has receivers, will have a running game, and has an oline. We need to be a physical defense if we are going to make the super bowl, so let's just hope we play fast.

NodakPaul
06-08-2006, 07:08 PM
"fromos" wrote:


-having gone up against the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th ranked defenses in the NFL

I'd say yeah it wasn't flashy but sure was inspirational when you look at what was accomplished.

What? Oh man, you are looking at a purely statistical ranking. Probably the one at ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=team&sort=ypg&pos=def&league=nfl&year=2005&season=2). That one has Green Bay listed as the 7th best defense of 2005 :shock:!

There are a lot of different methods out there for ranking defenses, and most of the assign some type of weighted estimate based on the team's opponents. Here are the games Brad started with a weighted estimate from Football Outsiders (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php). Obviously that will vary a little between sources, but it will stay generally the same.

Detroit - W (#22 ranked defense)
N.Y. Giants - W (#5 ranked defense)
Green Bay - W (#21 ranked defense)
Cleveland - W (#23 ranked defense)
Detroit - W (#22 ranked defense)
St. Louis - W (#27 ranked defense)
Pittsburgh - L (#6 ranked defense)
Baltimore - L (#8 ranked defense)
Chicago - W (#2 ranked defense - although most of the starters sat)

The only two quality defenses that we won with BJ starting were the Giants (a game our offense never scored in) and Chicago (when the playoff picture was locked and most of the starters sat).

Just for informational sake, here are the games Daunte started:

Tampa Bay - L (#15 ranked defense)
Cincinnati - L (#24 ranked defense)
New Orleans - W (#25 ranked defense)
Atlanta - L (#30 ranked defense)
Chicago - L (#2 ranked defense)
Green Bay - W (#21 ranked defense)
Carolina - L (#1 ranked defense)

I am excited for the new season under BJ. I have both high hopes and high expectations for the team, and BJ is a key part of the team.

But I just can't force myself to believe that he is one of the greatest QBs ever to play the game, no can I accept the fact that he was solely responsible for out turn around last year.

snowinapril
06-08-2006, 07:18 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:


Detroit - W (#22 ranked defense)
N.Y. Giants - W (#5 ranked defense)
Green Bay - W (#21 ranked defense)
Cleveland - W (#23 ranked defense)
Detroit - W (#22 ranked defense)
St. Louis - W (#27 ranked defense)
Pittsburgh - L (#6 ranked defense)
Baltimore - L (#8 ranked defense)
Chicago - W (#2 ranked defense - although most of the starters sat)

The only two quality defenses that we won with BJ starting were the Giants (a game our offense never scored in) and Chicago (when the playoff picture was locked and most of the starters sat).

Just for informational sake, here are the games Daunte started:

Tampa Bay - L (#15 ranked defense)
Cincinnati - L (#24 ranked defense)
New Orleans - W (#25 ranked defense)
Atlanta - L (#30 ranked defense)
Chicago - L (#2 ranked defense)
Green Bay - W (#21 ranked defense)
Carolina - L (#1 ranked defense)

But I just can't force myself to believe that he is one of the greatest QBs ever to play the game, no can I accept the fact that he was solely responsible for out turn around last year.

Those W/L records against the good and bad teams look like a team issue, not a QB issue.

This is why I cut DC slack last year for his performances. Blame him if you want.

BTW, that was a good post Nodak!

VikingKen
06-08-2006, 08:05 PM
http://www.kenandkelli.com/vikings/superbowl2007.jpg

Better

twill
06-08-2006, 08:13 PM
hes a good qb just wish he was 10 years younger =)

twill
06-08-2006, 08:13 PM
hes a good qb just wish he was 10 years younger =)

fromos
06-08-2006, 08:29 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:

What? Oh man, you are looking at a purely statistical ranking. Probably the one at ESPN. That one has Green Bay listed as the 7th best defense of 2005 !
I'm going by the NFL's rankings:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2005/regular?sort_col_1=4

It's ranked by yards given up. Green Bay's defense did a very good job, only 6 other teams gave up less yards. The problem was Favre kept throwing up interceptions and putting their defense in poor field position.

VikingKen
06-09-2006, 08:19 AM
I'll never forget the feeling of doom when he went down in 98. Boy was I ever wrong Comeback Cash Cunningham was all over it baby! :D