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baumy300
03-29-2006, 03:29 PM
I can't help it. I just have to say it.

I miss Randy Moss.

I remember back in 1998, the days of middle school, soft core porn, and the greatest viking season ever.

Someone special came onto the scene then, someone who changed our team for years to come.

It wasn't hard to get extra excited for a game knowing we were going to dominate. Even better, we were going to be treated to a spectaclur showing of athleticism by #84.

Every passing play (sometimes even running play) had the potential to be huge, and everyone knew. #84 would live forever in my mind that year, just being the next great thing, and on our team!

Moss never did anything (other than driving over the cop) that I found to be one bit offensive or unruly.

Only after this season did I realize a part of the team had died. Something just wasn't there at kickoff time. We were missing our man.

#84 was known as Mr. Viking since 1999. Without him now, it just doesn't feel the same.

I know I'm whining, but I can't help it that I miss what was once our #1 option.

Ltrey33
03-29-2006, 03:37 PM
You have to learn that players don't make franchises, especially in today's world of sports. The odds that Randy was even going to stay as long as he did were against us.

Sure, I miss seeing the dude catch touchdowns for us too, but that's the past. He and Daunte were here for 7 years and never got the deed done, and I believe it was time to move on.

I just hate the whole "This guy isn't here anymore, that makes me sad" angle. If you love Moss, go root for the Raiders, if you love Pep go root for the Dolphins. But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play. The players don't matter, the franchise does.

Prophet
03-29-2006, 03:41 PM
"ltrey33" wrote:

... But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play...

Wow. I guess I would still root for them, but I'm not sure if I would be excited about seeing them play. Pervert! :lol:

Ltrey33
03-29-2006, 03:45 PM
"Prophet" wrote:

"ltrey33" wrote:

... But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play...

Wow. I guess I would still root for them, but I'm not sure if I would be excited about seeing them play. Pervert! :lol:

Well you have to admit it would be interesting.

"Johnson drops back to pass, and OH! He's asleep again folks. Looks like the pressure is coming, there's going to be a big hit from the linebacker and oh my goodness! That little guy just got clobbered! I guess you could say that the lineman really "fell asleep" there Bob.

ChezPizmo
03-29-2006, 03:47 PM
How weird is this?
I was thinking this exact same thing yesterday and was thinking on making a thread about it.

The reason I started thinking about it and missing him is because of the things me and my grandfather would talk about on the topic of Moss (if you read my introduction thread you know about the whole realtionship between me and my grandfather). When we would be driving somewhere or just sitting around visiting, I always loved hearing about his personal stories about Randy when he was a rookie and took the team to 15-1. I loved hearing about how crazy his skills were and how he would tell me even triple coverage couldn't keep him down.
Sure, he could have done the same kind of stories about past legends because my grandfather was a fan since the franchise was started, but hearing these things about a player who is STILL around and playing was so much greater.
Now, there is no one left to talk about in that way. Even when Culpepper was here, there wasn't anything specially great that could be said in those respects.

Prophet
03-29-2006, 03:47 PM
"ltrey33" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"ltrey33" wrote:

... But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play...

Wow. I guess I would still root for them, but I'm not sure if I would be excited about seeing them play. Pervert! :lol:

Well you have to admit it would be interesting.

"Johnson drops back to pass, and OH! He's asleep again folks. Looks like the pressure is coming, there's going to be a big hit from the linebacker and oh my goodness! That little guy just got clobbered! I guess you could say that the lineman really "fell asleep" there Bob.

Yes, it would still be interesting. Screw the ex-Vikings. Rock on narcoleptic midgets!

baumy300
03-29-2006, 03:50 PM
"ltrey33" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"ltrey33" wrote:

... But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play...

Wow. I guess I would still root for them, but I'm not sure if I would be excited about seeing them play. Pervert! :lol:

Well you have to admit it would be interesting.

"Johnson drops back to pass, and OH! He's asleep again folks. Looks like the pressure is coming, there's going to be a big hit from the linebacker and oh my goodness! That little guy just got clobbered! I guess you could say that the lineman really "fell asleep" there Bob.
Yeah that would really produce some great Madden quotes....

"I talked to Elvis the gnome today before the game. Heres a guy who if he grew a few more inches, would be taller."

LL-MMan
03-29-2006, 03:50 PM
I feel ya man. I miss the excitement that Moss brought to the game. I miss standing up when that deep ball was thrown. I miss the big plays, I miss teams shaking in their boots when Moss was on the field.

I miss the Super Freak.

ChezPizmo
03-29-2006, 03:54 PM
"ltrey33" wrote:

You have to learn that players don't make franchises, especially in today's world of sports. The odds that Randy was even going to stay as long as he did were against us.

Sure, I miss seeing the dude catch touchdowns for us too, but that's the past. He and Daunte were here for 7 years and never got the deed done, and I believe it was time to move on.

I just hate the whole "This guy isn't here anymore, that makes me sad" angle. If you love Moss, go root for the Raiders, if you love Pep go root for the Dolphins. But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play. The players don't matter, the franchise does.

Try saying that to the Dolphin fans with Marino, or the 49ers with Young.
We, or atleast me, aren't concentrated on one player and I am for sure not a Viking fan because of one player. I'm not sitting here crying and hating the Vikings now because Moss got traded. I'm still a fan and that hasn't changed one bit when the Moss trade happened. I'm not going to root for the Raider nor the Dolphins because of either player, and neither is Baumy. I'm a fan of the purple, not the people in the purple.
All I'm saying is that I miss the things that went along with Moss and what he did for the Vikings when he was in the purple. But now that he isn't, that won't change my fan status with the Vikings, because that would flat out not make sense.

ChezPizmo
03-29-2006, 03:55 PM
"baumy300" wrote:

"ltrey33" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"ltrey33" wrote:

... But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play...

Wow. I guess I would still root for them, but I'm not sure if I would be excited about seeing them play. Pervert! :lol:

Well you have to admit it would be interesting.

"Johnson drops back to pass, and OH! He's asleep again folks. Looks like the pressure is coming, there's going to be a big hit from the linebacker and oh my goodness! That little guy just got clobbered! I guess you could say that the lineman really "fell asleep" there Bob.
Yeah that would really produce some great Madden quotes....

"I talked to Elvis the gnome today before the game. Heres a guy who if he grew a few more inches, would be taller."

Haha! :lol:

ChezPizmo
03-29-2006, 03:56 PM
"LL-MMan" wrote:

I feel ya man. I miss the excitement that Moss brought to the game. I miss standing up when that deep ball was thrown. I miss the big plays, I miss teams shaking in their boots when Moss was on the field.

I miss the Super Freak.

Took the words right out of my mouth. :lol:

mnvikes61
03-29-2006, 04:01 PM
We need an entire Moss forum for the people who miss Moss. :roll:

For the record I do not miss him.

Prophet
03-29-2006, 04:03 PM
Yeah I miss his team approach to the game. Spraying refs with water bottles. Walking off the field before the game was done. Running over traffic cops. Yelling on the sidelines. Admitting to smoking pot. I really miss that stuff.

I do miss his intensity and big-plays. That was fun and I enjoyed every minute of it. I also enjoy seeing T-Ho make nice plays, Jerry Rice, Chad Johnson, Brian Urlacher, Brian Williams, Edward Scissorhands, etc. But, they ain't on the Vikings.

Given a choice I would much rather have a disciplined team without the 'me' guys. I can get my highlight reel fixes on Sportscenter. Smash-mouth back-to-the-basics football. That is what I want to see. Screw all the superstars with the 'me-first' attitudes. They can play on another team and I'll enjoy their athleticism at a distance.

LL-MMan
03-29-2006, 04:03 PM
If we brought home a SuperBowl it'd all change...... Moss who?

ChezPizmo
03-29-2006, 04:06 PM
Yeah, but he isn't here anymore so it's on to new players and a new era. I'm ready for the next unknown player to blow up on the scene so we have some more stories to tell and more championships to bring home.

SKOL VIKES!

WisconsinSucks
03-29-2006, 04:23 PM
"baumy300" wrote:


I remember back in 1998, the days of middle school, soft core porn, and the greatest viking season ever.



That makes me feel old. Moss doesn't make me shed tears. Sitting through an entire season of Les Steckle after Grant retired sure did though.

mr.woo
03-29-2006, 04:54 PM
true dat. i thik the media blew his stunts outta porportion and tice was lost on wat to do so he wat dumb A$$ anouncer joe buck would do. he was a great talent.

PurplePackerEater
03-29-2006, 05:16 PM
"ltrey33" wrote:

You have to learn that players don't make franchises, especially in today's world of sports. The odds that Randy was even going to stay as long as he did were against us.

Sure, I miss seeing the dude catch touchdowns for us too, but that's the past. He and Daunte were here for 7 years and never got the deed done, and I believe it was time to move on.

I just hate the whole "This guy isn't here anymore, that makes me sad" angle. If you love Moss, go root for the Raiders, if you love Pep go root for the Dolphins. But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play. The players don't matter, the franchise does.

When was the last time any of you showed up to watch the coaches, managment, and the owner? LMAO! Players sell (the most) tickets -No matter how you slice it!

For example, say the NFL went on strke....How many people are going to show up at the games to watch NOBODYS? Sure, there'd be some die hards, maybe even you, but it wouldn't last long.

I'm not picking on you ltrey, just stating this for everyone.

Prophet
03-29-2006, 05:21 PM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

"ltrey33" wrote:

You have to learn that players don't make franchises, especially in today's world of sports. The odds that Randy was even going to stay as long as he did were against us.

Sure, I miss seeing the dude catch touchdowns for us too, but that's the past. He and Daunte were here for 7 years and never got the deed done, and I believe it was time to move on.

I just hate the whole "This guy isn't here anymore, that makes me sad" angle. If you love Moss, go root for the Raiders, if you love Pep go root for the Dolphins. But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play. The players don't matter, the franchise does.

When was the last time any of you showed up to watch the coaches, managment, and the owner? LMAO! Players sell (the most) tickets -No matter how you slice it!

For example, say the NFL went on strke....How many people are going to show up at the games to watch NOBODYS? Sure, there'd be some die hards, maybe even you, but it wouldn't last long.

I'm not picking on you ltrey, just stating this for everyone.

So, what you're saying is that you won't buy tickets to a narcoleptic midget laden Vikings team? I suppose you're right, it would drive in a different fan base. I would be there.

happy camper
03-29-2006, 05:24 PM
If anyone remembers, I have been a huge supporter of trading Moss.

I have now changed. I now miss him.

It's all clearer now. We traded Moss to have him stop embarrasing the team. Then the love boat happens. We traded Moss so it could be Culpeppers team, then Daunte has a horrible year and is traded.

This is the first time I've ever said it publicly. We traded Moss for the wrong reasons, and got nothing in return.

Prophet
03-29-2006, 05:25 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

If anyone remembers, I have been a huge supporter of trading Moss.

I have now changed. I now miss him.

It's all clearer now. We traded Moss to have him stop embarrasing the team. Then the love boat happens. We traded Moss so it could be Culpeppers team, then Daunte has a horrible year and is traded.

This is the first time I've ever said it publicly. We traded Moss for the wrong reasons, and got nothing in return.

Good to see you finally came out of the closet.

whackthepack
03-29-2006, 05:33 PM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

"ltrey33" wrote:

You have to learn that players don't make franchises, especially in today's world of sports. The odds that Randy was even going to stay as long as he did were against us.

Sure, I miss seeing the dude catch touchdowns for us too, but that's the past. He and Daunte were here for 7 years and never got the deed done, and I believe it was time to move on.

I just hate the whole "This guy isn't here anymore, that makes me sad" angle. If you love Moss, go root for the Raiders, if you love Pep go root for the Dolphins. But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play. The players don't matter, the franchise does.

When was the last time any of you showed up to watch the coaches, managment, and the owner? LMAO! Players sell (the most) tickets -No matter how you slice it!

For example, say the NFL went on strke....How many people are going to show up at the games to watch NOBODYS? Sure, there'd be some die hards, maybe even you, but it wouldn't last long.

I'm not picking on you ltrey, just stating this for everyone.

If there had been no CBA extension, and the owners locked the players out and brought in replacements and never settled the strike and just kept playing and drafting new players, and let the old players play in another league or retire and work at KFC at the driveup window. Within 3 years nobody would know the difference, and the stadiums would be full!

Players come and go and the league remains the best sports league in the world! No player is the game, and will always be replaced and the team and the league will move on.

happy camper
03-29-2006, 05:38 PM
If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

LL-MMan
03-29-2006, 05:38 PM
I was ok with the Moss trade at first, but you have to miss that excitement he brought to us fans.

I sure in heck won't miss Culpepper. He'll never win a SuperBowl.

whackthepack
03-29-2006, 05:47 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.


I said within 3 years, and the teams would replace them with talented players, and the league would go on after a few years like it never happened.

Always have been talented players and they come and go. Marino, Tarkenton, Montana, Reggie White, LT, Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Earl Campbell want me to continue for the next week. There are always players to replace other players.

PurplePackerEater
03-29-2006, 05:47 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

Vick is a perfect example. He's not even a great QB, yet his Jersey sells more than anybody!

VikesfaninWis
03-29-2006, 05:49 PM
Moss will always be the man in my eyes.. I think if things would have panned out then as they are now, Moss would still be with us, and Pepp would have been gone last year. I know Wilf didn't do the Moss trade, but I bet he wishes we still had him.. Who knows what will happen in the future, maybe we will se the Super Freak back in purple and gold in the future..

happy camper
03-29-2006, 05:51 PM
The Raiders visit The Vikings on MNF week 1 of preseason.

I will give Randy a warm welcome.

Del Rio
03-29-2006, 05:57 PM
The NFL is what it is because they are great at what they do. There will always be a face they can market.

When the NFL players went on strike the NFL brought in a bunch of no name players. People still showed up, people still payed to see the games.
You can bet if it happened again they would still be selling tickets and still be making great money.

Hell I know people who watch football every sunday, who do not know anyone on the team. They just like football. I find myself watching games just because they are on.

These players may be pawns to the NFL for marketing, but they could market a blue collar steel mill worker turned pro and make just as much money off him as they could off of Moss.

Gift
03-29-2006, 05:58 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

The Raiders visit The Vikings on MNF week 1 of preseason.

I will give Randy a warm welcome.I hope your not being sarcastic, he doesn't deserve being boo'ed. He did alot for the vikes. I really hope he gets a warm welcome.

Del Rio
03-29-2006, 05:59 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

I completely disagree.

VKG4LFE
03-29-2006, 06:27 PM
Guys, I miss him as much as the next guy (and I miss wearing one of the 7 jerseys I have of his) but we need to move on! It's like when you're really hot girlfriend dumps you because you are worthless, you can't sit and dwell on it, just get over it!

Prophet
03-29-2006, 06:41 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

"happy camper" wrote:

If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

I completely disagree.

I completely agree. History shows exactly what Del is talking about.

Here is the worn out example. The Patriots have won three SBs in recent years without any superstars. Now some of their names are well known. If there is a team playing the game solidly there will be stars that will emerge. Many times someone is a star for a game and a different person the star for another game etc. Jerseys will still sell. Tickets will still be sold. The game will go on. Some fans will walk, others will join up.

The superstars are entertaining, more so to some people. There are fans that could live without ever seeing another self-absorbed player walk on the field. That will never happen though, you get young testosterone-laden guys with exorbitant salaries that have been treated like royalty during their athletic careers and some will think they are greater then the organization or sport. Sure, the Ron Mexico's will sell the jerseys but that is only a fraction of the overall picture. There are many football fans that watch the game just for the love of the game.

Even if the Vikings did have a team full of narcoleptic midgets the marketers would put a different twist on the situation and jersey sales would do fine and the tickets would still sell. Srew the superstars, all replacable. One leaves and another emerges. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.

I prefer no superstars on the team. That will never happen though, because cream will rise to the top. I just hope they have the mind and maturity to go along with their athletic prowess.

Gift
03-29-2006, 06:45 PM
I would take 1 Randy over all of our current WR's, Randy would probably get more done.

V-Unit
03-29-2006, 06:56 PM
"Prophet" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

"happy camper" wrote:

If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

I completely disagree.

I completely agree. History shows exactly what Del is talking about.

Here is the worn out example. The Patriots have won three SBs in recent years without any superstars. Now some of their names are well known. If there is a team playing the game solidly there will be stars that will emerge. Many times someone is a star for a game and a different person the star for another game etc. Jerseys will still sell. Tickets will still be sold. The game will go on. Some fans will walk, others will join up.

The superstars are entertaining, more so to some people. There are fans that could live without ever seeing another self-absorbed player walk on the field. That will never happen though, you get young testosterone-laden guys with exorbitant salaries that have been treated like royalty during their athletic careers and some will think they are greater then the organization or sport. Sure, the Ron Mexico's will sell the jerseys but that is only a fraction of the overall picture. There are many football fans that watch the game just for the love of the game.

Even if the Vikings did have a team full of narcoleptic midgets the marketers would put a different twist on the situation and jersey sales would do fine and the tickets would still sell. Srew the superstars, all replacable. One leaves and another emerges. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.

I prefer no superstars on the team. That will never happen though, because cream will rise to the top. I just hope they have the mind and maturity to go along with their athletic prowess.

Exactly! For more evidence, look to the NBA, which is advertising individuals right now and not teams. The NBA is not doing nearly as well as the NFL right now and part of the reason is that nobody is focused on TEAM play in that league. Each team has their respective "star" and nobody gives a hoot about the other players.

When the NBA was doing well, teams, not players, were popular. Yes the bulls had Jordan, but a phenomenal supporting cast as well. Other teams, like the Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, and Rockets were about team play as well. That is what made them good, as well as fun to watch. Now all these teams are reduced to 2 individuals at most, and I could give two hoots about Mcgrady and Yao, or Kobe. I want to see teams excelling through TEAMWORK.

ThaSuperFreak33
03-29-2006, 07:18 PM
I loved Moss too but he is not with us and we can't dwell on it. There will be another player on the Vikes that will be a huge superstar and hopefully he will not have a bad attitude. Plus the SUPERFREAK is still here, look at the name and I'm loyal to my VIKINGS and all the VIKINGS fans.

PurplePackerEater
03-29-2006, 07:24 PM
"V-Unit" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

"happy camper" wrote:

If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

I completely disagree.

I completely agree. History shows exactly what Del is talking about.

Here is the worn out example. The Patriots have won three SBs in recent years without any superstars. Now some of their names are well known. If there is a team playing the game solidly there will be stars that will emerge. Many times someone is a star for a game and a different person the star for another game etc. Jerseys will still sell. Tickets will still be sold. The game will go on. Some fans will walk, others will join up.

The superstars are entertaining, more so to some people. There are fans that could live without ever seeing another self-absorbed player walk on the field. That will never happen though, you get young testosterone-laden guys with exorbitant salaries that have been treated like royalty during their athletic careers and some will think they are greater then the organization or sport. Sure, the Ron Mexico's will sell the jerseys but that is only a fraction of the overall picture. There are many football fans that watch the game just for the love of the game.

Even if the Vikings did have a team full of narcoleptic midgets the marketers would put a different twist on the situation and jersey sales would do fine and the tickets would still sell. Srew the superstars, all replacable. One leaves and another emerges. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.

I prefer no superstars on the team. That will never happen though, because cream will rise to the top. I just hope they have the mind and maturity to go along with their athletic prowess.

Exactly! For more evidence, look to the NBA, which is advertising individuals right now and not teams. The NBA is not doing nearly as well as the NFL right now and part of the reason is that nobody is focused on TEAM play in that league. Each team has their respective "star" and nobody gives a hoot about the other players.

When the NBA was doing well, teams, not players, were popular. Yes the bulls had Jordan, but a phenomenal supporting cast as well. Other teams, like the Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, and Rockets were about team play as well. That is what made them good, as well as fun to watch. Now all these teams are reduced to 2 individuals at most, and I could give two hoots about Mcgrady and Yao, or Kobe. I want to see teams excelling through TEAMWORK.

BS. Just this last Sunday I was at the Timberwolves game with my Grandfather and we were talking about basketball (he's a huge basketball fan). He was just telling me how he loved watching guys like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, etc...

He NEVER once said, "Boy, I love the way the Celtics managed the game and played as a team".

And my son has a dozen posters of football players from around the league -NOT ONE team poster.

So, go on and on telling us about how it SHOULD be, but it's not reallity.

happy camper
03-29-2006, 07:34 PM
"Gift" wrote:

"happy camper" wrote:

The Raiders visit The Vikings on MNF week 1 of preseason.

I will give Randy a warm welcome.I hope your not being sarcastic, he doesn't deserve being boo'ed. He did alot for the vikes. I really hope he gets a warm welcome.

I wasn't being sarcastic.

I meant, a warm welcome. Meaning, I'll stand and clap for him.

Del Rio
03-29-2006, 07:38 PM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

"V-Unit" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

"happy camper" wrote:

If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

I completely disagree.

I completely agree. History shows exactly what Del is talking about.

Here is the worn out example. The Patriots have won three SBs in recent years without any superstars. Now some of their names are well known. If there is a team playing the game solidly there will be stars that will emerge. Many times someone is a star for a game and a different person the star for another game etc. Jerseys will still sell. Tickets will still be sold. The game will go on. Some fans will walk, others will join up.

The superstars are entertaining, more so to some people. There are fans that could live without ever seeing another self-absorbed player walk on the field. That will never happen though, you get young testosterone-laden guys with exorbitant salaries that have been treated like royalty during their athletic careers and some will think they are greater then the organization or sport. Sure, the Ron Mexico's will sell the jerseys but that is only a fraction of the overall picture. There are many football fans that watch the game just for the love of the game.

Even if the Vikings did have a team full of narcoleptic midgets the marketers would put a different twist on the situation and jersey sales would do fine and the tickets would still sell. Srew the superstars, all replacable. One leaves and another emerges. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.

I prefer no superstars on the team. That will never happen though, because cream will rise to the top. I just hope they have the mind and maturity to go along with their athletic prowess.

Exactly! For more evidence, look to the NBA, which is advertising individuals right now and not teams. The NBA is not doing nearly as well as the NFL right now and part of the reason is that nobody is focused on TEAM play in that league. Each team has their respective "star" and nobody gives a hoot about the other players.

When the NBA was doing well, teams, not players, were popular. Yes the bulls had Jordan, but a phenomenal supporting cast as well. Other teams, like the Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, and Rockets were about team play as well. That is what made them good, as well as fun to watch. Now all these teams are reduced to 2 individuals at most, and I could give two hoots about Mcgrady and Yao, or Kobe. I want to see teams excelling through TEAMWORK.

BS. Just this last Sunday I was at the Timberwolves game with my Grandfather and we were talking about basketball (he's a huge basketball fan). He was just telling me how he loved watching guys like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, etc...

He NEVER once said, "Boy, I love the way the Celtics managed the game and played as a team".

And my son has a dozen posters of football players from around the league -NOT ONE team poster.

So, go on and on telling us about how it SHOULD be, but it's not reallity.

LOL they just talked about this on ESPN.

Regardless of what your grandaddy tells you, the numbers don't lie. The NBA has been losing revenue year after year. I just heard on ESPN radio that the NBA is getting killed by......wait for it.....NASCAR.

It's a known fact the NBA revolves around individual play. They suffer for it too. Right in the pocketbook. The NFL on the other hand does not, nor will they ever. Which is exactly why you have rules that limit celebrations in the endzone. Because this is a team sport, where the NFL has decided a team being valued will bring more money then an actual player. The NBA is the exact opposite.

Prophet
03-29-2006, 07:39 PM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

"V-Unit" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

"happy camper" wrote:

If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

I completely disagree.

I completely agree. History shows exactly what Del is talking about.

Here is the worn out example. The Patriots have won three SBs in recent years without any superstars. Now some of their names are well known. If there is a team playing the game solidly there will be stars that will emerge. Many times someone is a star for a game and a different person the star for another game etc. Jerseys will still sell. Tickets will still be sold. The game will go on. Some fans will walk, others will join up.

The superstars are entertaining, more so to some people. There are fans that could live without ever seeing another self-absorbed player walk on the field. That will never happen though, you get young testosterone-laden guys with exorbitant salaries that have been treated like royalty during their athletic careers and some will think they are greater then the organization or sport. Sure, the Ron Mexico's will sell the jerseys but that is only a fraction of the overall picture. There are many football fans that watch the game just for the love of the game.

Even if the Vikings did have a team full of narcoleptic midgets the marketers would put a different twist on the situation and jersey sales would do fine and the tickets would still sell. Srew the superstars, all replacable. One leaves and another emerges. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.

I prefer no superstars on the team. That will never happen though, because cream will rise to the top. I just hope they have the mind and maturity to go along with their athletic prowess.

Exactly! For more evidence, look to the NBA, which is advertising individuals right now and not teams. The NBA is not doing nearly as well as the NFL right now and part of the reason is that nobody is focused on TEAM play in that league. Each team has their respective "star" and nobody gives a hoot about the other players.

When the NBA was doing well, teams, not players, were popular. Yes the bulls had Jordan, but a phenomenal supporting cast as well. Other teams, like the Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, and Rockets were about team play as well. That is what made them good, as well as fun to watch. Now all these teams are reduced to 2 individuals at most, and I could give two hoots about Mcgrady and Yao, or Kobe. I want to see teams excelling through TEAMWORK.

BS. Just this last Sunday I was at the Timberwolves game with my Grandfather and we were talking about basketball (he's a huge basketball fan). He was just telling me how he loved watching guys like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, etc...

He NEVER once said, "Boy, I love the way the Celtics managed the game and played as a team".

And my son has a dozen posters of football players from around the league -NOT ONE team poster.

So, go on and on telling us about how it SHOULD be, but it's not reallity.

Your perception is your reality. There are plenty of fans that worship individual players. Don't believe it, just read the posts on this site.

No matter who plays new stars will rise and the individual player worshippers will rise to the occasion. I bet a good percentage of Vikings fans never heard of Steve Hutchinson before this year. Now they are buying his jerseys, posters, etc. There will always be an avenue for those kind of sales.

A superstar can bring in non-fans and get the fans excited too. I followed the Bulls when Michael Jordan played for them and I haven't watched a single Bulls game since. I am not an NBA fan but I enjoyed watching Jordan play. That's the kind of additional fans that you bring in. The fans that were the fans of the Bulls pre-Jordan are still fans of the Bulls and some of the fans that followed them because of Jordan are still following the Bulls. There is another group of fans, like me, that followed the Bulls only because of Jordan and could care less about the Bulls now. That's just the way it is.

That same example holds true for the NFL. There are Randy Moss-types that come and play for the Vikings and the old-time fans like it as well as the younger fans as well as people that just want to see Randy Moss play. After Moss leaves there are some fans that will still follow him to wherever he goes and change their allegiance. There are others that still follow the Vikings and keep updated on Moss' activities. There are others that started following the Vikings because of Moss and continue to follow the Vikings. It's a natural progression. There were plenty of examples of Moss/Culpepper people on this site that were in one of those transitiions.

The fact remains that the individual players to not make up what the franchise is in the long-term. We enjoy the players when they are here and when they leave the franchise still stands. The team concept and loyalty are much deeper than the loyalty to an individual. I enjoyed Randy Moss while he played for the Vikings but you can rest assured that when the Raiders meet up with the Vikings during the regular season I will be cheering for a Vikings W and as an added bonus it may be fun to see Randy tear up the field....as long as the Raiders lose.

Team, yes. Individual players, no.

whackthepack
03-29-2006, 07:41 PM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

"V-Unit" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

"happy camper" wrote:

If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

I completely disagree.

I completely agree. History shows exactly what Del is talking about.

Here is the worn out example. The Patriots have won three SBs in recent years without any superstars. Now some of their names are well known. If there is a team playing the game solidly there will be stars that will emerge. Many times someone is a star for a game and a different person the star for another game etc. Jerseys will still sell. Tickets will still be sold. The game will go on. Some fans will walk, others will join up.

The superstars are entertaining, more so to some people. There are fans that could live without ever seeing another self-absorbed player walk on the field. That will never happen though, you get young testosterone-laden guys with exorbitant salaries that have been treated like royalty during their athletic careers and some will think they are greater then the organization or sport. Sure, the Ron Mexico's will sell the jerseys but that is only a fraction of the overall picture. There are many football fans that watch the game just for the love of the game.

Even if the Vikings did have a team full of narcoleptic midgets the marketers would put a different twist on the situation and jersey sales would do fine and the tickets would still sell. Srew the superstars, all replacable. One leaves and another emerges. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.

I prefer no superstars on the team. That will never happen though, because cream will rise to the top. I just hope they have the mind and maturity to go along with their athletic prowess.

Exactly! For more evidence, look to the NBA, which is advertising individuals right now and not teams. The NBA is not doing nearly as well as the NFL right now and part of the reason is that nobody is focused on TEAM play in that league. Each team has their respective "star" and nobody gives a hoot about the other players.

When the NBA was doing well, teams, not players, were popular. Yes the bulls had Jordan, but a phenomenal supporting cast as well. Other teams, like the Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, and Rockets were about team play as well. That is what made them good, as well as fun to watch. Now all these teams are reduced to 2 individuals at most, and I could give two hoots about Mcgrady and Yao, or Kobe. I want to see teams excelling through TEAMWORK.

BS. Just this last Sunday I was at the Timberwolves game with my Grandfather and we were talking about basketball (he's a huge basketball fan). He was just telling me how he loved watching guys like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, etc...

He NEVER once said, "Boy, I love the way the Celtics managed the game and played as a team".

And my son has a dozen posters of football players from around the league -NOT ONE team poster.

So, go on and on telling us about how it SHOULD be, but it's not reallity.


The NBA can not hold the NFL's jock, who cares how they market. The NFL is more popular than the NBA, MLB and the NHL combined. Why is that? Because of the league and the sport, not the individual players. Fans know that they have a chance each year and that 1 season can make a difference and go to the Superbowl. Players will become popular and teams will be recognized for those players, but 2 years later it can be a whole new group and the fans are cheering for them.

WisconsinSucks
03-29-2006, 07:45 PM
The point is you can be a superstar and not be a cancer to your team.

Manning, Brady, etc. GOOD

Moss, Owens, etc. BAD

happy camper
03-29-2006, 07:49 PM
Alright. We can argue about the superstar player thing.

But this point of this thread- you can miss Moss and that doesn't mean you're not a Viking fan. Obviously people are bigger Vikings fans than Moss fans. Otherwise, everyone would have jumped to the Raiders board.

You can miss a player, and that's not a bad thing.

PurplePackerEater
03-29-2006, 07:53 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

"V-Unit" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:


If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.

I completely disagree.

I completely agree. History shows exactly what Del is talking about.

Here is the worn out example. The Patriots have won three SBs in recent years without any superstars. Now some of their names are well known. If there is a team playing the game solidly there will be stars that will emerge. Many times someone is a star for a game and a different person the star for another game etc. Jerseys will still sell. Tickets will still be sold. The game will go on. Some fans will walk, others will join up.

The superstars are entertaining, more so to some people. There are fans that could live without ever seeing another self-absorbed player walk on the field. That will never happen though, you get young testosterone-laden guys with exorbitant salaries that have been treated like royalty during their athletic careers and some will think they are greater then the organization or sport. Sure, the Ron Mexico's will sell the jerseys but that is only a fraction of the overall picture. There are many football fans that watch the game just for the love of the game.

Even if the Vikings did have a team full of narcoleptic midgets the marketers would put a different twist on the situation and jersey sales would do fine and the tickets would still sell. Srew the superstars, all replacable. One leaves and another emerges. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.

I prefer no superstars on the team. That will never happen though, because cream will rise to the top. I just hope they have the mind and maturity to go along with their athletic prowess.

Exactly! For more evidence, look to the NBA, which is advertising individuals right now and not teams. The NBA is not doing nearly as well as the NFL right now and part of the reason is that nobody is focused on TEAM play in that league. Each team has their respective "star" and nobody gives a hoot about the other players.

When the NBA was doing well, teams, not players, were popular. Yes the bulls had Jordan, but a phenomenal supporting cast as well. Other teams, like the Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, and Rockets were about team play as well. That is what made them good, as well as fun to watch. Now all these teams are reduced to 2 individuals at most, and I could give two hoots about Mcgrady and Yao, or Kobe. I want to see teams excelling through TEAMWORK.

BS. Just this last Sunday I was at the Timberwolves game with my Grandfather and we were talking about basketball (he's a huge basketball fan). He was just telling me how he loved watching guys like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, etc...

He NEVER once said, "Boy, I love the way the Celtics managed the game and played as a team".

And my son has a dozen posters of football players from around the league -NOT ONE team poster.

So, go on and on telling us about how it SHOULD be, but it's not reallity.

LOL they just talked about this on ESPN.

Regardless of what your grandaddy tells you, the numbers don't lie. The NBA has been losing revenue year after year. I just heard on ESPN radio that the NBA is getting killed by......wait for it.....NASCAR.

It's a known fact the NBA revolves around individual play. They suffer for it too. Right in the pocketbook. The NFL on the other hand does not, nor will they ever. Which is exactly why you have rules that limit celebrations in the endzone. Because this is a team sport, where the NFL has decided a team being valued will bring more money then an actual player. The NBA is the exact opposite.Imo, the NBA and MLB are hurting because of they don't have a salary cap, which is why I don't watch either of them. Most people dislike sitting through a lop sided game controlled by economics.

If the NFL didn't, after about 5 3-13 seasons I'd probably start to lose intrest in the Vikings as well.

Sure, NASCAR is growing in popularity, but I doubt people are literally turning the channel from Basketball to Race Cars. Isn't NASCAR on Sundays anyway? I THINK it is. So, IF NASCAR was "stealing" fans away from another sport, doesn't logic say it would be the NFL?

Del Rio
03-29-2006, 08:02 PM
Killing the NBA in revenue. I never said they were stealing fans. Perhaps the fans that no longer endorse the NBA simply watch college basketball I have no idea. The point was they are losing fans.

Keep in mind this was on ESPN radio on lunch. That is the only reason I stated it. I understand that the NBA by design almost HAS to be a player sport because there are only 5 guys on the floor and in the NBA one guy can and does take over a game. The NFL isn't quite the same so making the comparison is a stretch. I only made it to show the NBA is not making as much as it used to and the NFL is making more then it ever has, with teams like the Steelers, the Patriots...

There is something to be said for players putting fans in the seats. I mean we can't argue that. If it wasn't true why would the NFL scheduel a Raiders at Vikings preseason game in Minnesota? If it didn't matter at all they would draw from a hat. There is drama though, that is why. People will tune in to see the drama. I agree with you there.

What I don't agree with is that is all it is about, because the NFL has vocally tried to steer the sport clear of indivualization and continue to make attempts to focus on team play.

As for what happy camper said, I haven't seen anyone say you can't cheer for Moss and still be a Vikings fan......I know I sure as hell wasn't saying that. I haven't seen anyone even say you can't miss the guy. All I was discussing is the point Itrey and PPE was discussing about people pay to see players and not coaches .......etc.

Again I point to 1987 when there was 4 games of mediocre play. People still tuned in, people still paid money. The reason IMO is because the sport is violent. I work hard all day I want to crack a beer open and watch someone run in to someone else at 200 miles an hour ripping his head off. I don't care who it is, just win.

ThePurpleCow
03-29-2006, 08:12 PM
I felt almost the same way, until brad started.

thanatoschristou
03-29-2006, 08:13 PM
I think we will eventually be standing on our feet again with Williamson and Robinson running deep. Hard not to be failry successful going deep with that kind of side by side speed.

Ltrey33
03-29-2006, 10:25 PM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

"ltrey33" wrote:

You have to learn that players don't make franchises, especially in today's world of sports. The odds that Randy was even going to stay as long as he did were against us.

Sure, I miss seeing the dude catch touchdowns for us too, but that's the past. He and Daunte were here for 7 years and never got the deed done, and I believe it was time to move on.

I just hate the whole "This guy isn't here anymore, that makes me sad" angle. If you love Moss, go root for the Raiders, if you love Pep go root for the Dolphins. But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play. The players don't matter, the franchise does.

When was the last time any of you showed up to watch the coaches, managment, and the owner? LMAO! Players sell (the most) tickets -No matter how you slice it!

For example, say the NFL went on strke....How many people are going to show up at the games to watch NOBODYS? Sure, there'd be some die hards, maybe even you, but it wouldn't last long.

I'm not picking on you ltrey, just stating this for everyone.

I'm not talking about a huge turonver like that though. If every player in the NFL up and left, then there would be some fallout, I have no doubts about that. It would certainly take a while to build the fan base back if you lost every star and every guy on a franchise, but I'm referring to the year to year turnover of free agents and trades.

midgensa
03-29-2006, 10:34 PM
Another one of these threads huh ...
I do miss him ... but for different reasons ... I LOVE having the villian on my team ... I love having the guy others hate and talk smack about and then watching him beat them and they can do nothing about it other than whine (I also happen to be a SF Giants fan and have to deal with the biggest villian of them all).
I miss the swagger and the arrogance of our offense with Moss ... but I understand how time goes and that sometimes changes happen.
I think Moss is the most talented wideout to ever play and already one of the top 5 to ever play the position ... but I don't think dwelling on his leaving is a very healthy thing to do.
I think that Daunte is an amazingly talented quarterback and will likely flourish under someone like Saban ... but dwelling on his loss gets me nowhere either ...
The future snuck up on us quickly with two monster trades ... but I gladly look toward the future and will avoid dwelling on the past.