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View Full Version : In 1998-2004 Was it Possible For a MN QB to Fail?



fromos
03-23-2006, 03:03 AM
Taking a look at our history, in 1998 we drafted Moss and instantly we had Carter (a 7x Pro Bowl receiver) and Moss (who is currently a 5x Pro Bowl receiver).

Cunningham took over after Johnson was injured in 1998, this was after he was widely believed to be washed up. With those two receivers on board Cunningham had best passer rating in the league (106.0), the second-most TD passes (34), the fifth-most passing yards (3,704), and was awarded NFL's MVP.

In 1999 Johnson was sent to Washington in favor of Cunningham starting in MN, but Cunningham was struggling so they put one of the league's worst QBs Jeff George in who had the best season of his career. George had 23 touchdowns, 8.6 yards per attempt, a 94.2 rating and led the Viking to the playoffs. Cunningham tried Dallas in 2000 and Baltimore in 2001 but was sent packing each time.

While Johnson had a great season in 1999 and went to the Pro Bowl, his 2000 season wasn't so hot so they put George in there (mostly because of his great 1999 season with the Vikes). George had the worst stats in the entire league and was benched in the 2nd game after going 0-2 embarrassingly. George never played in another NFL game again.

Culpepper took over in 2000 and we all know the story - look what happened when Moss left.

Edit: When Bouman took over after Culpepper was injured in a 2001 game against the Tennessee Titans, Bouman completed 21 of 31 passes for 384 yards and four touchdowns and was named NFC Offensive Player of the Week.

Edit: When culpepper was out for 2 games in 2003, Gus Frerotte lit it up and the vikes went 2-0. -thanks purplepride818

My question is, with the receivers we had in those periods was it possible to have a QB who didn't have the stats Culpepper did and go to the Pro Bowl at least 3 times?

singersp
03-23-2006, 03:10 AM
Yes it is possible.

Can you say "Spergon Wynn"

vikinggreg
03-23-2006, 03:13 AM
"singersp" wrote:

Yes it is possible.

Can you say "Spergon Wynn"

you sir, are correct, 100%

NodakPaul
03-23-2006, 03:14 AM
You did a good job researching this. It is nice to see a post where the arguement isn't "Moss is what made Culpepper great. There were other factors as well. Other great recievers, an incredible running game in Robert Smith. The Minnesota Moving Company for the O-Line. Amazing offensive coaching with Linehan. And yes, it helps to have the best WR to ever play the game too.

No, I don't think that it was possible for any of the QBs we had to fail under those circumstances. It goes back to my arguement, that football is a team sport, and our games aren't won or lost on the shoulders of the QB.

FYI, I still think Daunte is a good QB. But you have a good point, and he may not be as good as his pre-2005 stats show. We'll find out next season...

fromos
03-23-2006, 03:15 AM
When Bouman took over after Culpepper was injured in a 2001 game against the Tennessee Titans, Bouman completed 21 of 31 passes for 384 yards and four touchdowns and was named NFC Offensive Player of the Week.

YogidAbEAR
03-23-2006, 03:19 AM
"singersp" wrote:

Yes it is possible.

Can you say "Spergon Wynn"

on a side note spergeon wynn played for my winnipeg blue bombers last year. he only got maybe 13 snaps all year, all in the preseason. he got pissed for not starting or even playing so he got traded to toronto a couple of weeks ago. we wasted a first round pick to get him out of BC, and that pick ended up being the #2 pick. in return for trading wynn to toronto we only got a second round pick IIRC, and some old saftey that's never started a game and never will! so basically he's a total bust in the CFL too!

thats the wynn report!

purplepride818
03-23-2006, 03:20 AM
not to mention when culpepper was out for 2 games in 2003, gus frerotte lit it up and the vikes went 2-0

Potus2028
03-23-2006, 03:21 AM
if you couldnt throw far, you wouldnt be able to get the deep ball...

so yea, if the vikes would have had a really really really old qb.. they might not have had that good of a time..

not to mention, you at least need some brains to play qb..

so maybe like 1/100 would have messed up in minny during that time

CulpepperViking16
03-23-2006, 03:27 AM
Nice post fromos. 1998 was when I came on board as a fan (I was 10, so don't associate me with the band wagon). Quarterbacks was what the Vikings were about and that was admirable to me. It's a shame we're quarterbackless right now, and I don't have the best gut feelings about the 37 year old Johnson, but none-the-less, good post.

audioghost
03-23-2006, 03:43 AM
All I know is that the Vikes are back to getting veteran QBs on their last leg....just like in the 90s....except with the recieving core (the Vikes always had an awesome recieveing core....from the early 90s duo of Cris and Anthony Carter to the mid 90s duo of Cris Carter and Jake Reed to the Carter and Randy Moss years)

And we ran through the old geezers!
First it was Jim McMahon
Then it was Warren Moon
Then finally some youth with Brad Johnson
I think Jeff George came next...but he coulda came before
Then Randall Cunningham
Then the Culpepper era
And now Brad Johnson again, but he's old


Are we better off? Not at the QB position...however, I say we could be after drafting a good QB prospect....

The team may be better than they were last year....can't wait to see em' on the field

olson_10
03-23-2006, 03:52 AM
dont forget we had a pro bowl TE as well (chamberlain), and one of the leagues best o lines in that period as well as having the best receivers in the league..we also had a running game among the leagues best around that time..so yes it was impossible to stink it up at QB in that period

fromos
03-23-2006, 04:31 AM
Also, when Moss moved to Oakland the team may have went 4-12 but Kerry Collins passed for 3759 yards, 20 tds, and 12 ints. To put this into perspective, this year's Super Bowl winner Ben Roethlisberger only had 2385 yds and 17 tds this year.

Heck, if Collins wouldn't have been benched 3 games before the season ended he would've probably broken 4000 yards, something Culpepper's only done once in his entire career- in 2004.

Purple Floyd
03-23-2006, 04:34 AM
It just goes to show you that building the right team and putting a decent quarterback in the mix is a better idea than using all of your picks to move up and draft a top tier QB. Use the picks to build the team and get a qb that can manage the offense.

fromos
03-23-2006, 05:34 AM
To be fair Johnson did play 2 games with Moss in 1998 before getting injured, and in those 2 games he passed for 747 yards, had a 65% completion rate (11 yds per completion), scored 7 touchdowns with 5 interceptions. Johnson didn't even get to finish the 2nd game.

If he had kept this up for the whole season and not gotten injured he would have passed for 5967 yards and had 56 touchdown passes (both would have been all-time NFL records.)

TheAnimal93
03-23-2006, 05:47 AM
Dont forget the Jay Fielder game in which he lit it up against JAX. Then there were all of the other JF games. :lol:

MensaTice
03-23-2006, 05:58 AM
Lets also not forget that in 2001 and 2002 we went 5-11 and 6-10. That is failure. As for the stats and going to three pro bowls, Pep can light up a stat sheet as well as anyone. There are a lot of QBs that could have won a lot more games but not had nearly the same stats, even with the same team Pep played for. Of course the recievers were good but Pep deserves a lot of credit for his stats, he's just not a winner.

ultravikingfan
03-23-2006, 02:25 PM
I year in whicj the ultimate goal (Super Bowl) is not met is failure.

Saying otherwise is sugar coating.

donjen95
03-23-2006, 02:42 PM
What the hell is a Spergon Wynn?

ultravikingfan
03-23-2006, 02:43 PM
"donjen95" wrote:

What the hell is a Spergon Wynn?

Are you serious?

mr.woo
03-23-2006, 02:47 PM
i am i dont know who it is either.

ultravikingfan
03-23-2006, 02:53 PM
How long have you followed the team?

NodakPaul
03-23-2006, 02:57 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

I year in whicj the ultimate goal (Super Bowl) is not met is failure.

Saying otherwise is sugar coating.

Winning a superbowl is a team achivement, not an individual one. It is possible for a player to be a success on a team that fails. Look at Barry Sanders and all the years he played in Detroit. The Lions have only won one playoff game since 1957, yet I think few people would consider him a failure.

Besides, Success or Failure is not measured solely in Super Bowl victories. If that were the case then you could say that the Vikings have met failure every single year of their existance. I disagree. Call it sugar coating if you like...

ultravikingfan
03-23-2006, 03:04 PM
What is the goal of all 32 teams in the NFL before the start of the season?

Only one team will have that goal met.

Thus, 31 teams will fail in that goal...right?

Yes, it is possible for a player to have success. But what good is it if the teams goal is not met? He can look really good for a trade with another team instead of ours. Football is a team sport, not an individual.

WinonaVike
03-23-2006, 03:11 PM
I think NoDaks main point is that individuals can be very succesful even if a team struggles...i.e. Dan Marino, perhaps the greatest QB in NFL history; never won a Super Bowl. Also Id hate to call a season a complete failure after a division or conference championship.

ultravikingfan
03-23-2006, 03:13 PM
I here ya.

I guess it depends on how you set your sights. I set mine for a SB. We have won the division and conference a few times, time for a ring.

WinonaVike
03-23-2006, 03:16 PM
I def agree with that Ultra, been way to many years just taking the division and not seeing the overall results. Division and conference titles are indeed nice, but i agree its time for a Vikings Super Bowl!

fromos
03-24-2006, 12:01 AM
"TheAnimal93" wrote:

Dont forget the Jay Fielder game in which he lit it up against JAX. Then there were all of the other JF games. :lol:
Don't remember that.

singersp
03-24-2006, 12:41 AM
"donjen95" wrote:

What the hell is a Spergon Wynn?

"ultravikingfan" wrote:

Are you serious?

"mr.woo" wrote:

i am i dont know who it is either.


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/singersp82759/SpurgeonWynn.jpg

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 2000 cle | 7 | 22 54 40.7 167 3.1 0 1 | 3 15 0 |
| 2001 min | 3 | 48 98 49.0 418 4.3 1 6 | 8 61 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| TOTAL | 10 | 70 152 46.1 585 3.8 1 7 | 11 76 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+

Prophet
03-24-2006, 03:10 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

I here ya.

I guess it depends on how you set your sights. I set mine for a SB. We have won the division and conference a few times, time for a ring.

...and lost the SB four times.

The only goal is to win the SB. I agree that if you don't meet that goal it is unacceptable. Demand Excellence, always. The time will come. Being a Vikings fan is a good lesson in patience.

Ltrey33
03-24-2006, 03:43 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"donjen95" wrote:

What the hell is a Spergon Wynn?

Are you serious?

He's only the worst Vikings quarterback....EVER!!! I mean, I don't hold a lot of animosity towards him or anything, because he came in at the end of a 5-11 season, but holy smokes was that guy ever bad! I'll never forget the game against the Ravens. He had Moss in single coverage on the goal line. Moss ran a fade, and all Spergeon had to do was throw it up higher than the defensive back and Moss would have come down with it easily, but NO! Instead he threw it RIGHT TO THE DEFENSIVE BACK! It was nuts.

Anyway, I say yes because of the Spergeon experiment, but if you had adequate talent it was hard to fail. I think the biggest reason is A)offensive talent (Moss, Carter, Robert Smith, etc.) and B) Offensive line. There for a while we had a great O-line- Birk, Stringer, Dixon et al. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. If you give a decent NFL quarterback an offensive line, he'll look like an all star.

NodakPaul
03-24-2006, 03:55 PM
"Prophet" wrote:

"ultravikingfan" wrote:

I here ya.

I guess it depends on how you set your sights. I set mine for a SB. We have won the division and conference a few times, time for a ring.

...and lost the SB four times.

The only goal is to win the SB. I agree that if you don't meet that goal it is unacceptable. Demand Excellence, always. The time will come. Being a Vikings fan is a good lesson in patience.

I agree that the ultimate, and most important, goal is to win the Super Bowl. But that should not be the only goal. Everytime the team takes the field, they should have the single goal of winning that game. If you start concentrating on the Super Bowl instead of individual games, you will be setting yourself up for failure.

For me, success is measured on a graduated scale. It is not all or nothing. This year, we may succeed at some goals (like winning the division), but fail at others (like winning the Super Bowl).

If we make it to the Super Bowl this year and lose, are you seriously going to say that the Viking's season was a failure? How about if we lose in the NFC Championship? What if we win the division, but lose in the playoffs?

I think each of those scenarios would present a more successful year than the last year, and I would welcome any of them. Of course I would rather have a SB victory, but I am not going to call the team and season a failure if they don't come back with one. The whole "Second Place is the First Scenario" mentality should be saved for T-Shirts and pep talks.

Just MHO. :grin:

Prophet
03-24-2006, 04:02 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"ultravikingfan" wrote:

I here ya.

I guess it depends on how you set your sights. I set mine for a SB. We have won the division and conference a few times, time for a ring.

...and lost the SB four times.

The only goal is to win the SB. I agree that if you don't meet that goal it is unacceptable. Demand Excellence, always. The time will come. Being a Vikings fan is a good lesson in patience.

I agree that the ultimate, and most important, goal is to win the Super Bowl. But that should not be the only goal. Everytime the team takes the field, they should have the single goal of winning that game. If you start concentrating on the Super Bowl instead of individual games, you will be setting yourself up for failure.

For me, success is measured on a graduated scale. It is not all or nothing. This year, we may succeed at some goals (like winning the division), but fail at others (like winning the Super Bowl).

If we make it to the Super Bowl this year and lose, are you seriously going to say that the Viking's season was a failure? How about if we lose in the NFC Championship? What if we win the division, but lose in the playoffs?

I think each of those scenarios would present a more successful year than the last year, and I would welcome any of them. Of course I would rather have a SB victory, but I am not going to call the team and season a failure if they don't come back with one. The whole "Second Place is the First Scenario" mentality should be saved for T-Shirts and pep talks.

Just MHO. :grin:

No, a game at a time, a play at a time, etc. is the way to get there. I enjoy watching the Vikings even when they are horrible. What's better? The 15-1 season or a 4-12 season? One may be more enjoyable as a fan, but they both fell short. All I am saying is that some teams have a goal of making it to the playoffs (the Saints are famous for this) and some teams have a goal of winning the Super Bowl. Sure, every team says that is their goal, but the owner, coaches, and players have to buy into it. I think the current owner and coach believe in that goal and they are working on getting the team to believe in it. The Vikings are one of the winningest teams in the NFL regarding the number of playoff appearances and wins during their franchise history. They need a SB victory....if they fall short then go at it again.

The difference may appear subtle. To me it is not. Demand excellence and go at every play during the year trying to achieve excellence. There is always room for improvement. They don't have to be perfect, just relatively better then their competitiion on that day. Demand excellence and the attitude will permeate the team chemistry. That's all I'm trying to say.

ultravikingfan
03-24-2006, 07:14 PM
I am a goal oriented individual. The Vikings, or any teams goal, is usually to win the Super Bowl. Now, some teams may be rebuilding and set their sites a little lower...thats fine; its still a goal.

If you do not meet your goal, you failed...right? If your goal is to lose 5 pounds in a week and you only lose 3, you failed. Some would say, "well I lost 3, thats good." All you are doing is trying to make a positive out of a negative and you are only fooling yourself.

Wilf had a good team, now he has a better team with the additions and subtractions of players and coaches. I am sure he has his sites set on a Super Bowl, anything less is failure.

See failure does not mean "we suck." It simply means we did not meet our goal. I know failure is a harsh word; but thats reality.

Jeremy
03-24-2006, 10:45 PM
In 1999 Cunningham threw 8TD's and 9INT's for a QB rating of 79.1 in 6 games.
In 2000 Bubby Brister threw 0 TD's and 1 INT's for a QB rating of 40 in 2 games.

fromos
03-25-2006, 04:50 AM
"Jeremy" wrote:

In 1999 Cunningham threw 8TD's and 9INT's for a QB rating of 79.1 in 6 games.
Of course the year before Cunningham was the best QB in the league. Don't know what happened to Cunningham in 1999, but when (Wonderlic score 10) Jeff George took over he had 23 touchdowns, 8.6 yards per attempt, and a 94.2 rating (not to menion the Vikes went 8-2 and to the playoffs.)

This, of course, made everybody think George was such a great QB so he started in Washington, and had the worst stats in the league so he was benched and never played in the NFL again. Had he stayed at MN as starter instead of rookie Culpepper he probably would've went to the Pro Bowl 3 times, who knows?


In 2000 Bubby Brister threw 0 TD's and 1 INT's for a QB rating of 40 in 2 games.
Who probably didn't know a football from a hockey puck. And in 2001 3rd stringer Spergon Wynn had 1 td to 6 ints (of course this was better than his 0td to 1int he had in Cleveland), the question is would a trained ape had done better?

Look at all the Vikings QBs in that time period who made a name for themselves as being one of the best in the league only to move to another team and flop- Jeff George flopped in Washington, just like Randall Cunningham flopped in Dallas, and just like Gus Frerotte flopped in Miami.

HornedHat
03-25-2006, 05:00 AM
A story which always brings me back to the question...Why, Oh Why, did the Vikes sit on the ball at the end of the first half against the Falcons in the NFC Championship game, when ALL year we had been tossing the long ball to Moss? That was a bad sign, not going with what got us there, and the timidity killed us in the end. Oh my aching foot!

Jeremy
03-25-2006, 08:12 AM
The Viking backups success is hardly unique. Take a look at the QB ratings of the following backups, with the starter in parentheses:

Steve Young (Montana) 108.9
Steve Bono (Montana) 88.5
Jeff Kemp (Montana) 85.7
Scott Mitchell (Marino) 91.4
Craig Erickson (Marino) 86.3
Elvis Grbac (Young) 87.9
Jeff Garcia (Young) 89.9
Frank Reich (Kelly) 102.3
Jim Sorgi (Manning) 99.1
Matt Cassel (Brady) 89.4
Marc Bulger (Warner) 101.5
Trent Green (Warner) 101.8
Bernie Kosar (Aikman) 92.7
Rodney Peete (Aikman) 102.5
Jason Garrett (Aikman) 83.3
Billy Volek (McNair) 87.4

fromos
03-25-2006, 07:09 PM
"Jeremy" wrote:

The Viking backups success is hardly unique. Take a look at the QB ratings of the following backups, with the starter in parentheses:

Steve Young (Montana) 108.9
Steve Bono (Montana) 88.5
Jeff Kemp (Montana) 85.7
Scott Mitchell (Marino) 91.4
Craig Erickson (Marino) 86.3
Elvis Grbac (Young) 87.9
Jeff Garcia (Young) 89.9
Frank Reich (Kelly) 102.3
Jim Sorgi (Manning) 99.1
Matt Cassel (Brady) 89.4
Marc Bulger (Warner) 101.5
Trent Green (Warner) 101.8
Bernie Kosar (Aikman) 92.7
Rodney Peete (Aikman) 102.5
Jason Garrett (Aikman) 83.3
Billy Volek (McNair) 87.4
All these backups went on to succeed at other teams. All our backups (except Johnson, but he was before this time period) went on to fail miserably. It was only a couple of years ago Frerotte, fresh from being 2-0 as a starter in MN, failed in Miami.

ultravikingfan
03-25-2006, 07:22 PM
"fromos" wrote:

"Jeremy" wrote:

The Viking backups success is hardly unique. Take a look at the QB ratings of the following backups, with the starter in parentheses:

Steve Young (Montana) 108.9
Steve Bono (Montana) 88.5
Jeff Kemp (Montana) 85.7
Scott Mitchell (Marino) 91.4
Craig Erickson (Marino) 86.3
Elvis Grbac (Young) 87.9
Jeff Garcia (Young) 89.9
Frank Reich (Kelly) 102.3
Jim Sorgi (Manning) 99.1
Matt Cassel (Brady) 89.4
Marc Bulger (Warner) 101.5
Trent Green (Warner) 101.8
Bernie Kosar (Aikman) 92.7
Rodney Peete (Aikman) 102.5
Jason Garrett (Aikman) 83.3
Billy Volek (McNair) 87.4
All these backups went on to succeed at other teams. All our backups (except Johnson, but he was before this time period) went on to fail miserably. It was only a couple of years ago Frerotte, fress from being 2-0 as a starter, failed in Miami.

They did?

Steve Bono
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/BonoSt00.htm
Had one decent year then fizzled.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Jeff Kemp
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/KempJe00.htm
Successful?
Super Bowl wins: 0

Scott Mitchell
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MitcSc00.htm
Overpaid. Had 2 good seasons, then fizzled.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Craig Erickson
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/EricCr00.htm
How could he go on to be successful on another team when he last team was the Dolphins and he retired befroe Marino?
Super Bowl wins: 0

Elvis Grbac
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/GrbaEl00.htm
Was decent for a few years.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Jeff Garcia
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/GarcJe00.htm
Flat out sucked for the Browns and the Lions.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Frank Reich
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ReicFr00.htm
Where's the success?
Super Bowl wins: 0

Jim Sorgi
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/SorgJi00.htm
Successful on another team? Look at the link.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Matt Cassel
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/CassMa00.htm
Nope
Super Bowl wins: 0

I think you get the picture here. None of these guys (except Young)went on to be successful at all.

How do you measure success?

Jeremy
03-25-2006, 10:00 PM
Maybe he measures sucess by just collecting a paycheck from a team?

You left out Rodney Peete! Not that those other guys weren't enough to prove a point.

vikeswin2005
03-25-2006, 10:11 PM
good point ultra

ultravikingfan
03-25-2006, 10:40 PM
"Jeremy" wrote:

Maybe he measures sucess by just collecting a paycheck from a team?

You left out Rodney Peete! Not that those other guys weren't enough to prove a point.

Actually I stopped, was taken too long and I think that my point was proven.

If the paycheck was the true measure...Scott Mitchell was the most successful.

Ltrey33
03-25-2006, 10:48 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"fromos" wrote:

"Jeremy" wrote:

The Viking backups success is hardly unique. Take a look at the QB ratings of the following backups, with the starter in parentheses:

Steve Young (Montana) 108.9
Steve Bono (Montana) 88.5
Jeff Kemp (Montana) 85.7
Scott Mitchell (Marino) 91.4
Craig Erickson (Marino) 86.3
Elvis Grbac (Young) 87.9
Jeff Garcia (Young) 89.9
Frank Reich (Kelly) 102.3
Jim Sorgi (Manning) 99.1
Matt Cassel (Brady) 89.4
Marc Bulger (Warner) 101.5
Trent Green (Warner) 101.8
Bernie Kosar (Aikman) 92.7
Rodney Peete (Aikman) 102.5
Jason Garrett (Aikman) 83.3
Billy Volek (McNair) 87.4
All these backups went on to succeed at other teams. All our backups (except Johnson, but he was before this time period) went on to fail miserably. It was only a couple of years ago Frerotte, fress from being 2-0 as a starter, failed in Miami.

They did?

Steve Bono
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/BonoSt00.htm
Had one decent year then fizzled.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Jeff Kemp
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/KempJe00.htm
Successful?
Super Bowl wins: 0

Scott Mitchell
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MitcSc00.htm
Overpaid. Had 2 good seasons, then fizzled.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Craig Erickson
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/EricCr00.htm
How could he go on to be successful on another team when he last team was the Dolphins and he retired befroe Marino?
Super Bowl wins: 0

Elvis Grbac
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/GrbaEl00.htm
Was decent for a few years.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Jeff Garcia
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/GarcJe00.htm
Flat out sucked for the Browns and the Lions.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Frank Reich
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ReicFr00.htm
Where's the success?
Super Bowl wins: 0

Jim Sorgi
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/SorgJi00.htm
Successful on another team? Look at the link.
Super Bowl wins: 0

Matt Cassel
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/CassMa00.htm
Nope
Super Bowl wins: 0

I think you get the picture here. None of these guys (except Young)went on to be successful at all.

How do you measure success?

In daylights? In sunsets?
In midnights? In cups of coffee?
In inches? In miles?
In laughter? In strife?
In five hundred twenty-five thousand six hundred minutes,
how do you measure success in a life?

:grin:

Perch56
03-26-2006, 09:57 PM
you can't with guys like moss,carter,burleson,wiggins. the vikes have always been a good passing team. the reason we went down hill was when robert smith retired. it wasnt the qb's

sleepagent
03-26-2006, 10:11 PM
The mark of a great system is making sure EVERYONE can succeed in it. In a perfect world, you should be able to plug in talented players and let the system complete them.

Hopefully we'll get back to that starting this year and finally bring home that elusive trophy!

briboy75
03-26-2006, 10:11 PM
"fromos" wrote:

Taking a look at our history, in 1998 we drafted Moss and instantly we had Carter (a 7x Pro Bowl receiver) and Moss (who is currently a 5x Pro Bowl receiver).

Cunningham took over after Johnson was injured in 1998, this was after he was widely believed to be washed up. With those two receivers on board Cunningham had best passer rating in the league (106.0), the second-most TD passes (34), the fifth-most passing yards (3,704), and was awarded NFL's MVP.

In 1999 Johnson was sent to Washington in favor of Cunningham starting in MN, but Cunningham was struggling so they put one of the league's worst QBs Jeff George in who had the best season of his career. George had 23 touchdowns, 8.6 yards per attempt, a 94.2 rating and led the Viking to the playoffs. Cunningham tried Dallas in 2000 and Baltimore in 2001 but was sent packing each time.

While Johnson had a great season in 1999 and went to the Pro Bowl, his 2000 season wasn't so hot so they put George in there (mostly because of his great 1999 season with the Vikes). George had the worst stats in the entire league and was benched in the 2nd game after going 0-2 embarrassingly. George never played in another NFL game again.

Culpepper took over in 2000 and we all know the story - look what happened when Moss left.

Edit: When Bouman took over after Culpepper was injured in a 2001 game against the Tennessee Titans, Bouman completed 21 of 31 passes for 384 yards and four touchdowns and was named NFC Offensive Player of the Week.

Edit: When culpepper was out for 2 games in 2003, Gus Frerotte lit it up and the vikes went 2-0. -thanks purplepride818

My question is, with the receivers we had in those periods was it possible to have a QB who didn't have the stats Culpepper did and go to the Pro Bowl at least 3 times?

Great post. Obvioulsy a QB can fail becuase as uyou mentioned and some points a QB failed and someone else filled in.

We did have a great offense. It was relativly easy for a QB to do well.