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Muggsy
03-15-2006, 05:54 AM
What were the Vikings thinking? Dis John Clayton punk says dat at least tree times during dis rant of his.
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Minnesota didn't get value for Moss or Culpepper

By John Clayton
ESPN.com
Archive

What are the Vikings thinking?

Two years ago, they were a trendy Super Bowl pick. They had Randy Moss at wide receiver and Daunte Culpepper at quarterback. Following the 2004 season, both players were 28-years-old and in their prime. Moss was the league's ultimate playmaker, a receiver almost impossible to overthrow and known for making the impossible catch, especially in the red zone.

Culpepper was a freak. The league's biggest starting quarterback at 268 pounds, Culpepper was a load for smaller opposing linebackers to bring down. Plus, he had the speed and moves to run like a halfback. On top of all that, he had a rocket arm and could average 30 touchdowns a year.

Vikings fans slept well at night knowing both Moss and Culpepper were under contract into their thirties. Moss was signed through 2008; Culpepper was signed through 2012.

So what are the Vikings thinking giving up both players within a year for wide receiver Troy Williamson, linebacker Napoleon Harris and a second-round pick in 2006? New owner Zygi Wilf wasn't part of the Moss trade. That was from the Red McCombs era.

The organization decided there were too many incidents involving Moss that were distractions. So the Vikings shopped him in a trade, didn't wait to get value and ended up getting the seventh pick in the draft and Harris, who ended up playing only 25 percent of the downs.

They drafted Williamson with that No. 7 pick last year. He is a fast deep threat, but he played in only 29 percent of the offensive downs last season. Harris' days in Minnesota are probably numbered, because the Vikings spent $4 million a year to get outside linebacker Ben Leber out of San Diego. Plus, Harris is in the final year of his contract.

Championship teams are built around five key positions -- quarterbacks, receivers, cornerbacks, tackles and defensive ends who are playmakers. The Vikings ended up giving up 40 percent of those cornerstone positions for Williamson, who is a fast prospect but caught only 24 passes for 372 yards in 2005, and whatever they get in the second round this year.

What are the Vikings thinking?

Thanks to good cap management, though, the Vikings have the salary space to bring in top players. Williamson might develop into a big-play threat. They hit gold with Koren Robinson, whom they re-signed after his amazing comeback season from alcohol problems (Robinson made the Pro Bowl in 2005 as a return man.)

The organization apparently didn't like Culpepper's contract demands this offseason. Moreover, he didn't hit it off with new head coach Brad Childress by not working out at the team facility. Culpepper preferred to train in Florida. New coaches want their quarterbacks in town.

The Dolphins were so determined to find a potential franchise quarterback that they were willing to give up a second-round pick to get Culpepper sight unseen, even though he had a knee reconstruction last fall. Top quarterbacks are hard to find, which is why it's so curious that the Vikings would give up Culpepper so cheaply.

Back in the Dennis Green days, the Vikings made trips to the playoffs each year, even though Green went through a long list of veteran quarterbacks in the later stages of their careers. Although that strategy might get you to the playoffs, it's hard to win a Super Bowl with what you might consider transitional quarterbacks.

Culpepper, when healthy, has the ability to win a Super Bowl. It's interesting that he's going to the Dolphins, a team, like the Vikings, that had nine wins in 2006. Miami head coach Nick Saban felt he got the most he could out of the aging Gus Frerotte.

The Dolphins juggled whether to trade for Culpepper or sign Drew Brees. Both had problems. Brees had shoulder surgery. Culpepper had a major knee surgery.

But look at the impact of what a quarterback can do.

Carson Palmer put the Bengals on the playoff map in Cincinnati. Fortunately, he went to a franchise that had a coach, Marvin Lewis, who knew what to do with such a commodity. He sat him for a year and let him blossom into a Pro Bowl quarterback.

If Palmer comes back from his knee injury, the Bengals, like the Steelers with Ben Roethlisberger, will be Super Bowl contenders every year. The Patriots won three Super Bowls with their franchise quarterback, Tom Brady.

Part of the Vikings' problem was the transition from McCombs to Wilf. They traded Moss, and McComb didn't give former head coach Mike Tice enough money to keep offensive coordinator Scott Linehan (now the Rams' head coach). The one-two impact of losing Moss and Linehan, plus poor blocking in the middle of the line, led to Culpepper having his worst season in five years.

For the Dolphins, Culpepper can pay huge dividends if he's healthy. The Vikings, with Childress as the coach, should make a playoff run with Brad Johnson, but they will be in the market for a franchise quarterback for the next few years.

The Vikings can only hope they can be as successful as the Seattle Mariners were when they went through a period in which they lost Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez.

The Mariners won games but no championships after Griffey and Rodriguez left. It's hard to replace franchise players, and the Vikings hardly got value. What are they thinking?
===============================================
I don't know what da Vikes are tinkin', but I'm tinkin' dis Clayton punk don't know his arse from a hole inna ground, y'know? Moss and Culpepper were both at least partly responsible for da Vikes actions in getting rid o' dem, y'know? And believe me, da world will still keep toinin' even witout dese two mugs.

We'll be ok, youse guys. SKOL, Vikings!

SharperVikings
03-15-2006, 05:59 AM
yep i read on espn just 5 mins ago.....what a bag a douche!

its kinda funny everyone rips on us, because of these trades...yes weve gotten bad deals, but did everyone forget about culpeppers injury, its very serious!! he may not be a mobile qb anymore....! Mr. knowitall from espn thinks this was dumb??....i wish culpeppr the best of luck, but this douche just makes me wanna...... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Ltrey33
03-15-2006, 06:00 AM
Sometimes Clayton is brilliant in what he says and other times he's off. It's about 50/50 with him. Take this for example: He said all along that Cutler was the best quarterback in the draft next to Leinart and after the combine and Young's troubles that appears to be true. On the other hand he also said that the CBA would get done by the first deadline...then he said they'd get it done by the second....and then he said it probably wouldn't get done on the third. So you never really know with the professor/Chicken Little.

DarrinNelsonguy
03-15-2006, 06:02 AM
You cannot win with a player who doesn't want to be here, therefore you part with him (Daunte) and get what you can, at least we got more for him than the Eagles did for T.O.

PAvikesfan
03-15-2006, 06:18 AM
i think trading culp was one of the best manuevers we did this offseason. no drama is good.

purplepride818
03-15-2006, 06:22 AM
The Vikings can only hope they can be as successful as the Seattle Mariners were when they went through a period in which they lost Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez.

The Mariners won games but no championships after Griffey and Rodriguez left. It's hard to replace franchise players, and the Vikings hardly got value. What are they thinking?

what a dumba$$ the mariners didnt win championships WITH griffey and a-rod either!

mogwai
03-15-2006, 06:30 AM
"purplepride818" wrote:

The Vikings can only hope they can be as successful as the Seattle Mariners were when they went through a period in which they lost Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez.The Mariners won games but no championships after Griffey and Rodriguez left. It's hard to replace franchise players, and the Vikings hardly got value. What are they thinking? what a dumba$$ the mariners didnt win championships WITH griffey and a-rod either!exactly

vikingTurf
03-15-2006, 06:32 AM
I could care less how much media likes to rip the vikings and the management, they always find news ways to rip though.

tjohnson
03-15-2006, 06:32 AM
I was kinda surprised to read this from Clayton, usually he's not so subjective.

How old is John Clayton anyway? 30's? 40's? 50's?

adamv
03-15-2006, 06:33 AM
what a dumba$$ the mariners didnt win championships WITH griffey and a-rod either!
exactly
i think his point was that they would have been in a much better position to with better quality players than without.

DarrinNelsonguy
03-15-2006, 06:34 AM
I like the direction out team is headed in and they seem to be signing players who want to work hard and win as a team.

SKOL
03-15-2006, 06:36 AM
"OldManVike" wrote:

Culpepper was a freak. The league's biggest starting quarterback at 268 pounds, Culpepper was a load for smaller opposing linebackers to bring down. Plus, he had the speed and moves to run like a halfback. On top of all that, he had a rocket arm and could average 30 touchdowns a year.

What kind of a doofus is this guy? Pep will be a pocket passer for the rest of his career... unfortunately he never succeeded when he tried to be a pocket passer. He's nothing without the ability to keep the defense honest with the threat of a run.

audioghost
03-15-2006, 06:37 AM
I can see where John Clayton's coming from....Daunte is an excellent QB (although some may have forgotten) when he is healthy....however, I think this move was made because of Childress wanting a "clean slate", plus it gives Childress enough cap room to sign another 8-10 coaches! lmfao

But seriously, it was a bad deal....we didn't get value for Pep, although it will be brilliant if the Vikes trade up and get a great QB....clearly Childress is trying to "rebuild", although we shouldn't be, but Pepp woulda missed 1/2 the season anyway....

Good trade: When you weigh the advantages and disadvantages...probably not, but his health is a major factor....However, it had to be done because he didn't want to play here and woulda just b!tched and moaned like T.O. all next season when Brad Johnson was playing....

Summary: I see J.C.'s point
It was, in reality, a bad trade....
But it had to be done....

olson_10
03-15-2006, 06:39 AM
childress wants to draft a guy with the same tools and size (Omar Jacobs) and build him just like he did with McNabb, brilliant plan if that is the case!!

VikesfaninWis
03-15-2006, 06:42 AM
If Clayton was so smart, he would fork out the loot to get himself a dam toupee. He has got to know that image is everything when you are on the tube everyday of your life.. Looks like someone poured acid on his head...

Rant Over..

olson_10
03-15-2006, 06:44 AM
"mogwai" wrote:

"purplepride818" wrote:

The Vikings can only hope they can be as successful as the Seattle Mariners were when they went through a period in which they lost Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez.The Mariners won games but no championships after Griffey and Rodriguez left. It's hard to replace franchise players, and the Vikings hardly got value. What are they thinking? what a dumba$$ the mariners didnt win championships WITH griffey and a-rod either!exactly
we didnt win any championships with them here so why on earth is this guy ranting about stuff that has never happened? what an idiot..he should be fired for writing garbage like that..the patriots got rid of drew bledsoe, look at what that move did for them SUPERBOWL..this guy should lose his job for the comment that you just bolded..what are we thinking? well we didnt want to keep a guy as a franchise player who wasnt going to even try for us..id like to ask him how many teams have won championships in a season where they kept a star player that demanded to be traded in the offseason before? NONE, in ANY sport..comparing baseball to football in a situation that has no similarities..what an idiot clayton is

olson_10
03-15-2006, 06:53 AM
i wonder if he has even watched football in the past 10 years..how many teams have won the superbowl with culpepper and moss type of guys leading their offense? nobody, because simply scoring on big plays isnt going to get it dont against good teams..NE-brady, average receivers, good oline, good RB, great defense, consistency!..baltimore, terrible QB, amazing defense, consistency!..TB, great defense, suitable QB, consistency!..STL, well they are an exception, but that team was the best offensive team in the history of the league, and they did that with consistency and a very balanced passing/running attack..none of these teams have a big play QB and WR, they are loaded with guys that are consistent and can get it done over and over and over again..with daunte and randy we would play well for a game or two, then horrendous a game or two..no consistency, and they werent going to acheive that any time in the rest of their careers either..the TEAM is far better off without the both of them, and it is time for people to start recognizing that we are taking a team approach just like the superbowl winners of the past 20-40 years have done..we arent relying on superstars to carry us, just consistent, and very good players all working together who want a superbowl..fact of the whole matter is this, we get to the big game against philly, and everyone crumbles, does daunte or randy pick us up and make some plays? no, they werent willing to put the team on their backs..we get blown out 41-0 against the giants in the NFC championship game, does randy or daunte do anything? no..they arent guys who can win, and they have proven that they cant and arent willing to do enougn to win here in big games

oddmanout22287
03-15-2006, 07:06 AM
I can't stand John Clayton... all he does is spew out whatever he's read in the headlines that day and gets paid for it. His predictions are usually totally off base, and he has a really, really annoying voice to boot

DefensivePlaymaker
03-15-2006, 08:35 AM
"OldManVike" wrote:

What were the Vikings thinking? Dis John Clayton punk says dat at least tree times during dis rant of his.
=================================================
Minnesota didn't get value for Moss or Culpepper

By John Clayton
ESPN.com
Archive

What are the Vikings thinking?

Two years ago, they were a trendy Super Bowl pick. They had Randy Moss at wide receiver and Daunte Culpepper at quarterback. Following the 2004 season, both players were 28-years-old and in their prime. Moss was the league's ultimate playmaker, a receiver almost impossible to overthrow and known for making the impossible catch, especially in the red zone.

Culpepper was a freak. The league's biggest starting quarterback at 268 pounds, Culpepper was a load for smaller opposing linebackers to bring down. Plus, he had the speed and moves to run like a halfback. On top of all that, he had a rocket arm and could average 30 touchdowns a year.

Vikings fans slept well at night knowing both Moss and Culpepper were under contract into their thirties. Moss was signed through 2008; Culpepper was signed through 2012.

So what are the Vikings thinking giving up both players within a year for wide receiver Troy Williamson, linebacker Napoleon Harris and a second-round pick in 2006? New owner Zygi Wilf wasn't part of the Moss trade. That was from the Red McCombs era.

The organization decided there were too many incidents involving Moss that were distractions. So the Vikings shopped him in a trade, didn't wait to get value and ended up getting the seventh pick in the draft and Harris, who ended up playing only 25 percent of the downs.

They drafted Williamson with that No. 7 pick last year. He is a fast deep threat, but he played in only 29 percent of the offensive downs last season. Harris' days in Minnesota are probably numbered, because the Vikings spent $4 million a year to get outside linebacker Ben Leber out of San Diego. Plus, Harris is in the final year of his contract.

Championship teams are built around five key positions -- quarterbacks, receivers, cornerbacks, tackles and defensive ends who are playmakers. The Vikings ended up giving up 40 percent of those cornerstone positions for Williamson, who is a fast prospect but caught only 24 passes for 372 yards in 2005, and whatever they get in the second round this year.

What are the Vikings thinking?

Thanks to good cap management, though, the Vikings have the salary space to bring in top players. Williamson might develop into a big-play threat. They hit gold with Koren Robinson, whom they re-signed after his amazing comeback season from alcohol problems (Robinson made the Pro Bowl in 2005 as a return man.)

The organization apparently didn't like Culpepper's contract demands this offseason. Moreover, he didn't hit it off with new head coach Brad Childress by not working out at the team facility. Culpepper preferred to train in Florida. New coaches want their quarterbacks in town.

The Dolphins were so determined to find a potential franchise quarterback that they were willing to give up a second-round pick to get Culpepper sight unseen, even though he had a knee reconstruction last fall. Top quarterbacks are hard to find, which is why it's so curious that the Vikings would give up Culpepper so cheaply.

Back in the Dennis Green days, the Vikings made trips to the playoffs each year, even though Green went through a long list of veteran quarterbacks in the later stages of their careers. Although that strategy might get you to the playoffs, it's hard to win a Super Bowl with what you might consider transitional quarterbacks.

Culpepper, when healthy, has the ability to win a Super Bowl. It's interesting that he's going to the Dolphins, a team, like the Vikings, that had nine wins in 2006. Miami head coach Nick Saban felt he got the most he could out of the aging Gus Frerotte.

The Dolphins juggled whether to trade for Culpepper or sign Drew Brees. Both had problems. Brees had shoulder surgery. Culpepper had a major knee surgery.

But look at the impact of what a quarterback can do.

Carson Palmer put the Bengals on the playoff map in Cincinnati. Fortunately, he went to a franchise that had a coach, Marvin Lewis, who knew what to do with such a commodity. He sat him for a year and let him blossom into a Pro Bowl quarterback.

If Palmer comes back from his knee injury, the Bengals, like the Steelers with Ben Roethlisberger, will be Super Bowl contenders every year. The Patriots won three Super Bowls with their franchise quarterback, Tom Brady.

Part of the Vikings' problem was the transition from McCombs to Wilf. They traded Moss, and McComb didn't give former head coach Mike Tice enough money to keep offensive coordinator Scott Linehan (now the Rams' head coach). The one-two impact of losing Moss and Linehan, plus poor blocking in the middle of the line, led to Culpepper having his worst season in five years.

For the Dolphins, Culpepper can pay huge dividends if he's healthy. The Vikings, with Childress as the coach, should make a playoff run with Brad Johnson, but they will be in the market for a franchise quarterback for the next few years.

The Vikings can only hope they can be as successful as the Seattle Mariners were when they went through a period in which they lost Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez.

The Mariners won games but no championships after Griffey and Rodriguez left. It's hard to replace franchise players, and the Vikings hardly got value. What are they thinking?
===============================================
I don't know what da Vikes are tinkin', but I'm tinkin' dis Clayton punk don't know his arse from a hole inna ground, y'know? Moss and Culpepper were both at least partly responsible for da Vikes actions in getting rid o' dem, y'know? And believe me, da world will still keep toinin' even witout dese two mugs.

We'll be ok, youse guys. SKOL, Vikings!

Could you translate that please into English? Thanks.

SKOL
03-15-2006, 08:49 AM
"DefensivePlaymaker" wrote:


Could you translate that please into English? Thanks.

You mean "tanks"

Webby
03-15-2006, 08:51 AM
Classic OldManVike. I love it!!

RK.
03-15-2006, 09:13 AM
These guys like Clayton never explain why if Daunte is this great franchise QB that are so rare in the NFL why didn't we have 10 freakin teams bidding for him and trying to sign him hmmmmmmmmmm? The only team that made an actual offer was the Dolphins and only because they couldn't get Brees.

digital420
03-15-2006, 11:18 AM
it's no so much that D.c was a franchise QB..

he WAS a GREAT running / bombing / energetic QB..

now..

he's got the bomb still.. probably the energy.. but will his mobility be there?

those were his 3 greatest things.. now what's he gonna rely on?
unless they can upgrade his core processor to a multi threaded and not a single string thinking center he will become a benched backup to miami's 2008 qb draft pick..

DiGiTaL

olson_10
03-15-2006, 11:23 AM
seriously though, we didnt win with him or moss, so how is this an a rod/griffey sort of situation..the guy knows nothing about sports, and should just shut his mouth..a rod and griffey have gone on to do absolutely nothing, and neither will daunte or moss..daunte has a new team to blow big games for when he is called upon to step up

iluvbigtds
03-15-2006, 11:30 AM
Clayton's just mad because we punked his precious Seahawks when we stole Hutchinson from them.

mackd10
03-15-2006, 11:38 AM
He looks like a puppet without the strings.

NordicNed
03-15-2006, 11:51 AM
"tjohnson" wrote:

I was kinda surprised to read this from Clayton, usually he's not so subjective.

How old is John Clayton anyway? 30's? 40's? 50's?


Not sure exactly, but my ass has more hair on it than his head, but maybe he's got no hair not because of his age, but from wearing it off his own ass, every time he sticks his head up it..... :grin:

robertsmith
03-15-2006, 03:07 PM
anyone that thinks trading culpepper is a good move is out of their minds!!!

I find it hard to read this forum alot because alot of people hear REALYL dont know what they are talking about. Example: most people on this forum the start of last season LOVED Culpepper and LOVED M Moore(remember when i said he was no better then a 3rd down back). Now its hate on Culpepper for one bad season they should have done whatever it took to make him happy to keep him here. Anyways mark my words, this is a BAD move and we have now become a top 5 pick year in and year out until the next big qb is drafted NO ONE will want to come here now that they see what we did to Moss and Culpepper

purplegang
03-15-2006, 03:17 PM
"robertsmith" wrote:

anyone that thinks trading culpepper is a good move is out of their minds!!!

I find it hard to read this forum alot because alot of people hear REALYL dont know what they are talking about. Example: most people on this forum the start of last season LOVED Culpepper and LOVED M Moore(remember when i said he was no better then a 3rd down back). Now its hate on Culpepper for one bad season they should have done whatever it took to make him happy to keep him here. Anyways mark my words, this is a BAD move and we have now become a top 5 pick year in and year out until the next big qb is drafted NO ONE will want to come here now that they see what we did to Moss and Culpepper

Moss , maybe we did him wrong, but culpepper brought this on himself, signing a big contract then saying i want more money, and asking to be traded , thats like buying a car and driving it for a year and saying i want to change the contract, just cant do that.

lemdog
03-15-2006, 03:22 PM
I really don't think we did anything to randy moss, it was his time to go you cant have3 someone like that on your team when their is no stability in the organization to keep the team together. My feeling is that DC wanted to get out of mn to begin with who asks for more money with season he had really.

Mark_The_Viking
03-15-2006, 03:23 PM
At the end of the day who wants a player that can't be bothered and is only interested in money and not the team. Zygi went out of his way to pay Pep more money and we were owed loyalty for that but got nothing but petulance. I have a Culpepper shirt and I loved him being our QB but as everyone has said with him or withou him we didn't win a bowl so we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves of and kick Packer butt

PurpleRide
03-15-2006, 03:24 PM
Patrick Reusse: Trade does more for QB than Vikes
Daunte Culpepper will now find himself mentioned routinely in the same sentence with Terrell Owens and Randy Moss: trouble traded at a discount.
Patrick Reusse, Star Tribune
Last update: March 14, 2006 – 9:41 PM
Printer friendly E-mail this story Patrick Reusse
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Daunte Culpepper will now find himself mentioned routinely in the same sentence with Terrell Owens and Randy Moss: trouble traded at a discount.
He does not belong in that company. He was a solid presence in the locker room and a determined competitor. He never pulled an Owens and publicly ridiculed a teammate, and he never pulled a Moss and played only when he wanted.

It is still to be determined if he treated himself to a lap dance on a boat, but even if true, this rates only slightly ahead of Kevin Garnett flipping a basketball that taps a fan in the noggin on the meter of egregious behavior.

He never gave a traffic agent a ride on the hood of a SUV, never was found with marijuana residue in an ashtray, or an Original Whizzinator, or over the legal limit, and never was known to have a wife or girlfriend feel the need to call 911.

In other words, by Vikings standards established over the past 20 years, Culpepper was almost beatific in his public conduct. Thus, the source of this strange parting between Culpepper and the Vikings remains mysterious.

We know that Culpepper's long streak of being a stand-up guy came to an end on Oct. 12, when the reports of Sex Cruise had surfaced and he refused to comment in his weekly press conference. If he was that rattled by boat party questions from the media, one can only imagine how rattled he might have been by questions from Mrs. Culpepper.

Daunte suffered his season-ending knee injury 18 days later. Then, in mid-December, he was among four Vikings charged with misdemeanors stemming from Sex Cruise.

On Jan. 12, owner Zygi Wilf stiffed Culpepper at a scheduled meeting, and Culpepper responded by stiffing new coach Brad Childress for their scheduled meeting.

Somehow in those three months, from his no comment to the media to his no comment to Childress, Culpepper's relationship with the Vikings changed from franchise quarterback to persona non grata.

By Tuesday's trade, the Vikings had reached this point with Culpepper: They were less unsettled by news of the trade getting out before Daunte had taken his Miami physical than by the leak of information that several players (Brad Johnson included) were in New York being fitted for new uniforms.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this is a team that apparently plans to enter the season with a 38-year-old and a couple of nobodies at quarterback, but what's important is the 2006 Vikings will be bringing back uniforms with purple pants.

Gaudy pants aside, the Vikings are headed into the great unknown with Childress. He's a first-time head coach tying his wagon to Johnson, who graded out at C+ in nine starts for the Vikings last season, after flunking his way to the bench in four 2004 starts for Tampa Bay.

The sure winner here is Culpepper. He avoided being traded to Oakland. The problem would not have been a renewal of his love-hate relationship with Moss. It's the owner, Al Davis, who has turned so dingy in his old age he couldn't find a coach to take the Raiders job. He wound up being forced to recycle Art Shell.

Culpepper would have found coaching chaos in Oakland, or been surrounded by novices in Minnesota. In Miami, he falls into a situation where the coaching will be impeccable, with Nick Saban in charge and Mike Mularkey as offensive coordinator.

Saban started his turnaround of the Dolphins in the second half of last season ... without a quarterback. Mularkey did well enough in the coordinator's role in Pittsburgh to get a shot as head coach in Buffalo. Unlike Childress, Mularkey previously has called plays in the NFL, and with success.

The Vikings already have spent a hunk of cash in free agency, with a minimal impact: a placekicker marginally better than the incumbent, a backup running back to join other backups and a linebacker with a bad foot.

The Vikings do have a chance to get something significant out of this early shopping spree, if Seattle chooses not to match the gigantic offer to guard Steve Hutchinson. Put Hutchinson between left tackle Bryant McKinnie and a healthy center in Matt Birk, and there will be impressive blocking power inside those purple pants.

If Seattle matches?

The Vikings will have added little, and done so while giving away a quarterback who has not played in his last Pro Bowl.

ENOUGH SAID

Del Rio
03-15-2006, 03:30 PM
"ENOUGH SAID"

If that is truley enough said, like you suggest it is. Does that mean you will say nothing else? No more?

If so how much do I owe you, and the handicapped gorilla who wrote that?

AngloVike
03-15-2006, 03:50 PM
Thanks to good cap management, though, the Vikings have the salary space to bring in top players. Williamson might develop into a big-play threat. They hit gold with Koren Robinson, whom they re-signed after his amazing comeback season from alcohol problems (Robinson made the Pro Bowl in 2005 as a return man.)
No- thanks to McCombs cheap-assed ways we ended up with the salary space. Thats the only good thing that was left behind and probably inadvertently. This means that Zygi and the new management can take the accolades that would result from this. Much the same as McCombs took all the credit when Moss ran riot in '98 even though he was drafted by the previous management staff.



The Dolphins were so determined to find a potential franchise quarterback that they were willing to give up a second-round pick to get Culpepper sight unseen, even though he had a knee reconstruction last fall. Top quarterbacks are hard to find, which is why it's so curious that the Vikings would give up Culpepper so cheaply.

and by the same token it could be argued that it is so curious that the Fins would be willing to take the chance without even looking. The chances are same for both teams but Clayton conveniently overlooks this



Back in the Dennis Green days, the Vikings made trips to the playoffs each year, even though Green went through a long list of veteran quarterbacks in the later stages of their careers. Although that strategy might get you to the playoffs, it's hard to win a Super Bowl with what you might consider transitional quarterbacks.

yes he did John and you, like a lot of the media, bitched and whined every season about this very fact. You highlighted that DG could never win the big game - now you want to start using him as the benchmark for how a franchise should be ?? Don't forget that no-one knows what the Vikes are planning in terms of the QB position -least of all the media hacks like yourself. How many saw what the Vikes were going to do when signing Hutchinson to an offer sheet - no-one, so how do you know what or whom they are targetting in FA or even the draft?



Part of the Vikings' problem was the transition from McCombs to Wilf. They traded Moss, and McComb didn't give former head coach Mike Tice enough money to keep offensive coordinator Scott Linehan (now the Rams' head coach). The one-two impact of losing Moss and Linehan, plus poor blocking in the middle of the line, led to Culpepper having his worst season in five years.

Moss and Culpepper were playing together since 2000, so by that reasoning the Vikes should have been tearing up the league for all that time - didn't happen John. As a Pro-Bowl player then the loss of a WR - even one as good as Moss - should not have put Pep into meltdown but it did.

Given his overall form and recent decision that he did not want to come back to Minnesota, then the Vikes thinking was clear and it was time to part ways.
If there was some way that the two sides could have got back together after all the upset, then John Clayton - sports clown and media moron - would have been asking exactly the same question as now - what were the Vikings thinking ?

BBQ Platypus
03-15-2006, 03:59 PM
I have to say I agree with him. Look at the 'Fins' Culpepper Manifesto. You might learn something. I wrote a local radio station with some similar statistics once and they actually read it on the air, but one of the people on the show replied with that same old "Well, he's fumbled more than any other quarterback, hasn't he?"

In two years, we've gone from just a few players away from a championship to full-blown rebuilding mode (even though the ToA doesn't want to admit it). Will we have a Super Bowl this decade? To be realistic, probably not. Super Bowl teams have a nucleus. Who are our core players now? The list is short and doesn't seem to be very cohesive:

Matt Birk, Kevin Williams, and both of our cornerbacks

Steve Hutchinson probably will be added to that list shortly, but who do we have at the skill positions? Who's our QB after Johnson gets his AARP card? Is Chester Taylor really good enough to be a featured back? What about our shortcomings at linebacker? At safety?

I think the front office has given up and decided to go into rebuilding mode. Yet, inexplicably, they're going with the "safe" choices at the same time; slightly-above-average, media-friendly players who won't offend the "Minnesota Nice" ideal of their fan base (whatever the hell THAT means).

This strategy may get us a Super Bowl, but it won't get us one soon, and our lineup will probably be almost entirely different when we do. The Triangle of Authority seems to be saying "Well, to hell with improving what we already HAVE! Let's arbitrarily rebuild the team and make it completely different, making sure that our defensive schemes accentuate the positions that were already weaknesses in the first place! And if it accentuates one of our strengths, like safety, let's let one of our veterans leave! That sounds like a GREAT idea!"

Prophet
03-15-2006, 04:10 PM
"BBQ Platypus" wrote:

In two years, we've gone from just a few players away from a championship to full-blown rebuilding mode (even though the ToA doesn't want to admit it). Will we have a Super Bowl this decade? To be realistic, probably not. Super Bowl teams have a nucleus. Who are our core players now? The list is short and doesn't seem to be very cohesive:

Matt Birk, Kevin Williams, and both of our cornerbacks...

If the team was racking up Super Bowl Ws you would have an argument. The nucleus needed some molecular engineering and that is exactly what is happening. Rebuilding. Of course they're rebuilding. A new owner and coaching staff with a different philosophy results in a different team. The Super Bowl is at least a possiblity now, it never was with Redneck/Tice at the helm. Thank God there are changes.

snowinapril
03-15-2006, 04:24 PM
Take off your Purple Shades!

What did he(Clayton) actually say that wasn't true?

We got rid of a QB for market value which is less than what he is really worth.

Childress is unproven at Head Coach.

They hit gold with Koren Robinson.

I just pulled out a few thing that I thought people might be upset over......

You should be more upset that nothing he said was that original, except the worthless baseball reference.

The same thing happened last year after Moss was traded. People all pissed off at some writer telling it like he sees it, it may very well be true. Besides, he didn't say that we are doomed to finish last because of these blunders, he just said that they were actions that should leave you thinking ....What are the Vikings thinking?

snowinapril
03-15-2006, 04:38 PM
"Prophet" wrote:

The Super Bowl is at least a possiblity now, it never was with Redneck/Tice at the helm. Thank God there are changes.

Prophet, I think this might be the only thing that we can agree on at this time.

Our views have been respectfully different on most of this.

Maybe this WHOLE shake up was necessary, but it doesn't leave me the confidence to go into it with blind faith that we will finish anywhere above .500. It is exactly that a 50/50 chance that we finish at .500.

The Bears have to be the clear favorites in the NFC North, they are going to be bringing back a core nucleus and consistancy. Something that we don't have. We probably didn't have it anyway with a QB that is coming back from an injury, lots of ? in that itself.

We saw exactly what happened last season with many changes going into the season and little coaching going on leading into and during the season. This year with the unproven coaches, may be different, but then again it may not, hence "as greedy as a pig" oh wait, that was from Snatch, hence the reason I said 50/50. We just don't know, hence the the Blind Faith reference. I have no problem with people being optimistic. I want to think we will win the North myself but the odds will be against us.

So, just brace yourself for all the preseason articles about how the Bears are going to win it. Also if Favre would decide to return, they will be picked to be second, that is just how it is. It doesn't mean that every reporter hates us.

About the Ruesse article, where was this protecting/defending DC stuff before. That spineless bass-turd! Now after all the berating of DC and the Boat Scandal, "oh it wasn't any worse than KG tossing a basketball..."

Del Rio
03-15-2006, 04:40 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:

Take off your Purple Shades!

What did he(Clayton) actually say that wasn't true?

We got rid of a QB for market value which is less than what he is really worth.

Childress is unproven at Head Coach.

They hit gold with Koren Robinson.

I just pulled out a few thing that I thought people might be upset over......

You should be more upset that nothing he said was that original, except the worthless baseball reference.

The same thing happened last year after Moss was traded. People all pissed off at some writer telling it like he sees it, it may very well be true. Besides, he didn't say that we are doomed to finish last because of these blunders, he just said that they were actions that should leave you thinking ....What are the Vikings thinking?

Keeping in mind this is the same John Clayton that wrote an article saying why the Vikings were better without Moss, the same John Clayton that had picked them to represent the NFC in the Championship game without Moss, and the same John CLayton that was called out by FOX Sports last year for doing exactly that.

I don't know John what were we thinking? WTF were you thinking? Apparently the same thing we were, only this year you are smart and going along with the crowd so you don't come off with egg on your face once again.

Here's a link just for John Clayton LMFAO!? What were WE thinking John?

http://espnmorons.ytmnd.com/

ChezPizmo
03-15-2006, 04:45 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:

Take off your Purple Shades!

What did he(Clayton) actually say that wasn't true?

We got rid of a QB for market value which is less than what he is really worth.

Childress is unproven at Head Coach.

They hit gold with Koren Robinson.

I just pulled out a few thing that I thought people might be upset over......

You should be more upset that nothing he said was that original, except the worthless baseball reference.

The same thing happened last year after Moss was traded. People all pissed off at some writer telling it like he sees it, it may very well be true. Besides, he didn't say that we are doomed to finish last because of these blunders, he just said that they were actions that should leave you thinking ....What are the Vikings thinking?

Good points, I agree.
I can't blame the Vikes for trading Culpepper because it had to be done. Culpepper already convinced himself (and others) that he was done in Minnesota and that it wasn't going to work if he stayed where he was. The only thing I dislike was what we got in return.
But oh well, can't do anything about it now. I'm curious as to see if they do end up trading up in the draft for a QB as Childress suggested. Hell, I wanna see what they plan to do now period in the draft.

SO ENOUGH SAID!!1!

NodakPaul
03-15-2006, 04:46 PM
Clayton spent all last year season ripping on culpepper and saying he couldn't put up his 2004 numbers without Moss. Now that we've traded him he suddenly thinks Culpepper is God's gift to football. Jeez, he's like the John Kerry of sports analysists.

I still stick by my original statement. This trade was probably better for Miami, but it was also good for us. This isn't going to spell doom for the Vikings, nor is it going to send Miami to the Superbowl this year. It was also, IMHO, the best we could have done given the situation created (by both Daunte and the Front Office).

I am happy with the trade, and I am ready to move on.

whackthepack
03-15-2006, 04:50 PM
"audioghost" wrote:

I can see where John Clayton's coming from....Daunte is an excellent QB (although some may have forgotten) when he is healthy....however, I think this move was made because of Childress wanting a "clean slate", plus it gives Childress enough cap room to sign another 8-10 coaches! lmfao

But seriously, it was a bad deal....we didn't get value for Pep, although it will be brilliant if the Vikes trade up and get a great QB....clearly Childress is trying to "rebuild", although we shouldn't be, but Pepp woulda missed 1/2 the season anyway....

Good trade: When you weigh the advantages and disadvantages...probably not, but his health is a major factor....However, it had to be done because he didn't want to play here and woulda just b!tched and moaned like T.O. all next season when Brad Johnson was playing....

Summary: I see J.C.'s point
It was, in reality, a bad trade....
But it had to be done....


Audio very good post you are looking at the trade very realistically!

Prophet
03-15-2006, 04:50 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

The Super Bowl is at least a possiblity now, it never was with Redneck/Tice at the helm. Thank God there are changes.

Prophet, I think this might be the only thing that we can agree on at this time.

Our views have been respectfully different on most of this...

Fine with me. I'm glad we have opposing views over much of this. It is boring hanging out with only like-minded fans.

I don't have blind faith in the new management either, nor do I have blind pessimism. Either is blind at this juncture because the Vikings don't even have their final squad together and they haven't even played a game.

My forecast is that the Vikings will have a team to be reckoned with in 2008. Possibly sooner, but I'm more confident in 2008. People are whining about rebuilding, what do they expect? New Owner, new coaches, new philosophy. They may hit the ground hard and be a threat this year and they may not. The other 31 teams can say the same thing.

As far as the press goes, I read their gibberish as entertainment. Most of us could write the same crap. Take a fact or two and surround it with opinion backed up by a few statistics. It's not that tough, it's actually mind-numbing.

I haven't been this excited about the Vikings future since I was a child in the '60s. I can attest to that. Is it because I see the world through purple-tinted shades? No. I do, but that isn't the reason. There is change where it has been needed for a long time. What was being done in the past wasn't working. No Super Bowl victories since 1961. Change is good.

Del Rio
03-15-2006, 04:50 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:

Clayton spent all last year season ripping on culpepper and saying he couldn't put up his 2004 numbers without Moss. Now that we've traded him he suddenly thinks Culpepper is God's gift to football. Jeez, he's like the John Kerry of sports analysists.

I still stick by my original statement. This trade was probably better for Miami, but it was also good for us. This isn't going to spell doom for the Vikings, nor is it going to send Miami to the Superbowl this year. It was also, IMHO, the best we could have done given the situation created (by both Daunte and the Front Office).

I am happy with the trade, and I am ready to move on.

See my link: http://espnmorons.ytmnd.com/

John Clayton is a Culpepper fanboy. He only started to back down after he was called out in the media. By then he was safe from ridicule because Culpepper was hurt.
He picked us to go to the NFC championship based on Culpepper's talents. He has always been a fan of Pep.

snowinapril
03-15-2006, 04:50 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

"snowinapril" wrote:

Take off your Purple Shades!

What did he(Clayton) actually say that wasn't true?

We got rid of a QB for market value which is less than what he is really worth.

Childress is unproven at Head Coach.

They hit gold with Koren Robinson.

I just pulled out a few thing that I thought people might be upset over......

You should be more upset that nothing he said was that original, except the worthless baseball reference.

The same thing happened last year after Moss was traded. People all pissed off at some writer telling it like he sees it, it may very well be true. Besides, he didn't say that we are doomed to finish last because of these blunders, he just said that they were actions that should leave you thinking ....What are the Vikings thinking?

Keeping in mind this is the same John Clayton that wrote an article saying why the Vikings were better without Moss, the same John Clayton that had picked them to represent the NFC in the Championship game without Moss, and the same John CLayton that was called out by FOX Sports last year for doing exactly that.

I don't know John what were we thinking? WTF were you thinking? Apparently the same thing we were, only this year you are smart and going along with the crowd so you don't come off with egg on your face once again.

Here's a link just for John Clayton LMFAO!? What were WE thinking John?

http://espnmorons.ytmnd.com/

The back and forth from article to article is something you will find with almost every writer at some point.

I wasn't necessarily defending Clayton, just I don't understand what all the fuss is over an article.

Like my response to Prophet's post, I will say it again, there are going to be tons more writers and sportscasters that will be pulling there chips off of the Purple Express this year. More than we are use to seeing, atleast until we prove something. So get use to it!!!! Or you will be wasting a lot of time trying to dispute it.

Del Rio
03-15-2006, 04:56 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

"snowinapril" wrote:

Take off your Purple Shades!

What did he(Clayton) actually say that wasn't true?

We got rid of a QB for market value which is less than what he is really worth.

Childress is unproven at Head Coach.

They hit gold with Koren Robinson.

I just pulled out a few thing that I thought people might be upset over......

You should be more upset that nothing he said was that original, except the worthless baseball reference.

The same thing happened last year after Moss was traded. People all pissed off at some writer telling it like he sees it, it may very well be true. Besides, he didn't say that we are doomed to finish last because of these blunders, he just said that they were actions that should leave you thinking ....What are the Vikings thinking?

Keeping in mind this is the same John Clayton that wrote an article saying why the Vikings were better without Moss, the same John Clayton that had picked them to represent the NFC in the Championship game without Moss, and the same John CLayton that was called out by FOX Sports last year for doing exactly that.

I don't know John what were we thinking? WTF were you thinking? Apparently the same thing we were, only this year you are smart and going along with the crowd so you don't come off with egg on your face once again.

Here's a link just for John Clayton LMFAO!? What were WE thinking John?

http://espnmorons.ytmnd.com/

The back and forth from article to article is something you will find with almost every writer at some point.

I wasn't necessarily defending Clayton, just I don't understand what all the fuss is over an article.

Like my response to Prophet's post, I will say it again, there are going to be tons more writers and sportscasters that will be pulling there chips off of the Purple Express this year. More than we are use to seeing, atleast until we prove something. So get use to it!!!! Or you will be wasting a lot of time trying to dispute it.

Exactly and he is full of shit just like every other writer at ESPN. So that is why articles like these mean absolutely nothing. There is no reason to try and dispute what is in the article, the fact that it comes from a flip flopper that sways which ever way the wind blows makes it moot from the start.

OchoCinco
03-15-2006, 05:02 PM
I think this article adds a little more sense to the whole thing.........

End of an eraFour years ago, Minnesota's Super Bowl hopes rested on the shoulders of owner Red McCombs, coach Mike Tice, receiver Randy Moss and quarterback Daunte Culpepper. Now they're gone.
BOB SANSEVERE
The Vikings are busy remodeling these days. They're moving walls and adding offices at their Winter Park facility. They're also renovating the roster.
The latest alteration didn't involve a new shade of carpet. It involved Daunte Culpepper.
Just like old wallpaper that everyone tired of, Culpepper is history.
The Vikings traded him Tuesday to the Miami Dolphins for a second-round draft pick. And now look at the new-look Vikings. They could be an episode of ABC's "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition."
This is not the team fans came to love and loathe over the past few seasons.
Less than 13 months ago, Red McCombs was the owner. Mike Tice was the coach. Randy Moss was the star receiver. Culpepper was the franchise quarterback.
They're all gone now, reduced to lines of type in the team's media guide. What a difference a sale, a firing and a couple of trades can make. The last time a region saw this much change, the Ice Age hit.
McCombs, Tice, Moss and Culpepper all left us with memories, though not nearly enough worth cherishing. McCombs will be remembered mostly as a skinflint who warbled "Purple Pride" far too often. Tice was the coach who would win some and lose far too many. Moss played when he wanted to play. And Culpepper, well, he was bigger than most quarterbacks and stronger than most quarterbacks. He showed us size and strength aren't what wins games or championships.
Things have changed so much since McCombs purchased Vikings.
He didn't make any sweeping moves in his first year. Zygi Wilf is taking a bulldozer to the team.
Moss is the only one of the Former Four whose departure was not directly related to Wilf. It was more indirect. Tice knew there would be a new owner soon, and he decided he didn't want to be stuck with a self-absorbed, team-chemistry-fracturing malcontent such as Moss in what could be — and ultimately turned out to be — his final season as coach.
If there was even a shred of doubt that Wilf wanted a massive overhaul of this team, it disappeared with the Culpepper trade.
Wilf and his handpicked coach, Brad Childress, will be able to take the credit, or blame, for how the Vikings perform from here on out.
This is their team, their era.
I can't argue with trading Culpepper. If he had a healthy knee and a healthier outlook toward his bosses, I'd feel differently. But the uncertainty about whether his knee would allow him to be the player he once was, coupled with his attitude, made this move the right move.
Immediately after Childress became coach, he let everyone in the organization know he doesn't ever want to hear, "This is the way we've been doing it."Things will be done his way. And anyone who doesn't abide by his way will soon go away.
That had to be part of Childress' appeal to Wilf. They're both authoritarians. Wilf got that way building a billion-dollar development company. Childress had run-ins with Terrell Owens when he was the Philadelphia Eagles' offensive coordinator, and it apparently stripped away any tolerance he had for obstinacy and insubordinate behavior.
Culpepper's refusal to move back to Minnesota to rehab his knee and learn the new offense did not endear him to Childress or Wilf. They refuse to do what Tice and, before him, Denny Green did. Winter Park has become a no-coddle zone.
So Tuesday, the Vikings' alumni got its latest member. And the Vikings and their fans got a better idea of how the team will look in 2006.
Unless there's a trade to bring in a starting quarterback, Brad Johnson will run the Vikings' offense. There are Brad bashers out there, but Johnson won't lose games the way Culpepper did early last season. He's steady and reliable, and he helped the Tampa Bay Buccaneers win a Super Bowl running a similar offense.
Actually, with the acquisition of running back Chester Taylor, the re-signing of wide receiver Koren Robinson and the likely addition of all-pro guard Steve Hutchinson, the Vikings' offense could be far more productive than the Buccaneers' offense was the year Tampa Bay won it all. It will have to be like that because the Vikings' defense isn't going to be anywhere near as dominant as Tampa Bay's defense was during its championship season.
Childress is working on improving the defense but so far has added only an unheralded linebacker named Ben Leber. The Vikings still need a standout linebacker in the Derrick Brooks mold, a defensive end who can torment quarterbacks and a strong safety.
There still are plenty of renovations to be done.

PsychoViking
03-15-2006, 08:02 PM
Personally I could give a rats ass what some little freak like John Clayton has to say.....you can just look at him and know right away the little foreskin never has played a down of football and mor than likely he was the little briefcase carrying geek in school that the football players picked on.
No one should care what Clayton says.

Prophet
03-15-2006, 08:04 PM
"PsychoViking" wrote:

Personally I could give a rats jiggly butt what some little freak like John Clayton has to say.....you can just look at him and know right away the little foreskin never has played a down of football and mor than likely he was the little briefcase carrying geek in school that the football players picked on.
No one should care what Clayton says.

LMAO, nice first post PsychoViking.

RK.
03-15-2006, 10:53 PM
"PsychoViking" wrote:

Personally I could give a rats jiggly butt what some little freak like John Clayton has to say.....you can just look at him and know right away the little foreskin never has played a down of football and mor than likely he was the little briefcase carrying geek in school that the football players picked on.
No one should care what Clayton says.
:headbang: Nice.

DaunteHOF
03-15-2006, 10:58 PM
big, big mistake like I said. Hopefully it turns out well, cant change shit now...

ultravikingfan
03-15-2006, 11:06 PM
"DaunteHOF" wrote:

big, big mistake like I said. Hopefully it turns out well, cant change pooh now...

http://winace.andkon.com/pics/broken_record.jpg

olson_10
03-15-2006, 11:15 PM
"lemdog" wrote:

I really don't think we did anything to randy moss, it was his time to go you cant have3 someone like that on your team when their is no stability in the organization to keep the team together. My feeling is that DC wanted to get out of mn to begin with who asks for more money with season he had really.
you are right, we didnt do anything to randy..and randy didnt do anything to us either..moss still wanted to be a viking, he never wanted out of minnesota..to say he needed to leave isnt fair, because the guy tried to play injured for us all year knowing that he could help out whether he was catching balls or not..daunte however get hurt, and decides he will ignore everybody, and not show up to games or anything..the objection i have with what you said is that randy did want to be here and daunte forced his own way out

olson_10
03-15-2006, 11:21 PM
"DaunteHOF" wrote:

big, big mistake like I said. Hopefully it turns out well, cant change pooh now...
im still trying to figure out why people are saying we made a mistake? daunte made a mistake by believing all of the rumors going around..we werent shopping him a month ago, because we didnt accept any of those good offers like the ravens and cardinals threw at us..i dont care what anyone says, teams get offers all the time for guys, no matter what, and it doesnt mean that player is being shopped..the media put a spin on the fact that we were being offered players and picks for culpepper, and daunte chose to believe that..he wouldve been in baltimore or arizona right now if we truely were looking to trade him..the guy goes out on his own and demands to be traded, we get all we can for him, and people say WE made the mistake..i still dont quite understand why people wanted to see him complain and whine, and probably sit on the bench or not even show up all season, but i guess that is some people's definition of what a leader is..a guy who has no desire to play on the team he is with, and enjoys constantly complaining about his situation with his team

Big C
03-15-2006, 11:22 PM
The man is speaking my mind. Just because he has an opinion doesn't mean he's an idiot.

Childress got rid of Dante because he didn't want to rehab in Minny.

The majority of the fans wanted him shipped out because of his personality (whiny little bitch) more than talent. The man gives you 3 pro-bowl years and a few stellar years and 1 comment is enough to make all that unimportant to ship him out.

We'll see how the season turns out. I will always think that this was a bad move on the organizations part. The Moss trade pales in comparison to this one.

Prophet
03-15-2006, 11:35 PM
All it takes is one comment. Go home to your wife and say, "I want a divorce." At that point, it doesn't matter how many wonderful times you have had together and the thousands of conversations you have had together. The mood changes.

That is exactly what Daunte did to the team and the fans.

Vikadelic
03-15-2006, 11:39 PM
"purplepride818" wrote:

The Vikings can only hope they can be as successful as the Seattle Mariners were when they went through a period in which they lost Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez.

The Mariners won games but no championships after Griffey and Rodriguez left. It's hard to replace franchise players, and the Vikings hardly got value. What are they thinking?

what a dumba$$ the mariners didnt win championships WITH griffey and a-rod either!

No kidding! I think his point was that neither did the Vikes with Moss and Culpepper.

collegeguyjeff
03-16-2006, 12:10 AM
i love how i posted yesterday and it got deleted. but anyways john clayton and the espn and other media guys suck. they said that nobody wants daunte nad he won't be able to come back from his knee injury and we won't get anything for him.

then after we get a second rounder for daunte they say we got ripped off and miami got such a good deal. i just love how they hate us.

Frozen Tundran
03-16-2006, 12:20 AM
I was going to compliment Del Rio for his poist in this subject in another thread, but it had been locked for some reason.

Duante put up hellacious stats--with Randy Moss. Remember what happened to Brett last year after he lost Javon? Same thing happened to Culpepper. Some players like Randy Moss are so damned good all you gotta do is get it in their general vicinity and they can go and get it. Try that stunt with a normal reciever and you end up throwing a ton of interceptions.

How good was Duante? I honestly don't know. His stats were remarkable, but they were skewed by Moss. I always kinda liked the guy, but I was never sure how good he was. I guess we'll find out this year.

I don't think it's fair to judge him solely on last year, until halftime of the first Packer game that was the most underperforming team I'd seen in my career as an NFL fan. Never had I seen good players play as putridly as they did right up until that point.

donjen95
03-16-2006, 12:22 AM
You go PsychoViking. If any of them don't want to be here, get them the heck out. Loved Pep when he was here, but what did we win. Jack Squat!

Frozen Tundran
03-16-2006, 12:26 AM
"collegeguyjeff" wrote:

i love how i posted yesterday and it got deleted. but anyways john clayton and the espn and other media guys suck. they said that nobody wants daunte nad he won't be able to come back from his knee injury and we won't get anything for him.

then after we get a second rounder for daunte they say we got ripped off and miami got such a good deal. i just love how they hate us.

They say that because that's the same price they paid for AJ Feeley (of all people!) thus one would expect a star on the order of Duante would be worth a trifle more than some punk who never did anything but sit and watch McNabb play.

However the draft is richer this year, especially in that area. The 'second' you got is basically the equivelant of a low first most years.